Episode 1649 - Josh Homme

All right, let's do this.

How are you, what the fuckers?

What the fuck, buddies?

What the fuck, Nicks?

What's happening?

I'm Mark Maron.

This is my podcast, WTF.

How's it going?

Okay, how are you?

I know.

I know.

I understand.

Believe me, I understand how you're feeling.

But I'm around and I'm still having the good talks.

I mean, today I talked to Josh Hammy, and it was crazy.

It was crazy.

I hadn't talked to him in a while.

He's been on before, and it was kind of crazy the last time.

But, you know, it's like people who do things, who create things.

He took the Queens of the Stone Age

down into the catacombs in Paris with acoustic instruments and did one of the most stunning

bunch of songs that I've ever seen shot.

And it's crazy.

And it's like, where does that come from?

I mean,

he'd always wanted to do it.

And, you know, obviously, he's an interesting guy that's been through a lot of stuff and seriously, a fairly expansive and amazing artist.

And, but I was, you know, they sent me this stuff.

The, uh, the, his person was like, you know, he, they just did this thing in the catacombs.

I'm like, what?

And no one's ever been allowed down there.

And just the inspiration and the

need to make it happen took a lot of years.

But isn't that amazing?

Isn't that what we're supposed to be doing?

You know, there's been a lot of revelations over the last few days.

And I am grateful and amazed at the feedback and feelings that are coming at me.

because of our announcement that we're winding the show down over the next few months.

And

it's very moving and there's certainly a sadness to it.

And we're not going to make every one of these episodes a reflection on the decision.

But boy, I didn't know it would have ripples around the world.

And I know, look, I appreciate the part I play in everyone's life.

And I appreciate the part you play in my life.

And I'm just going to keep going here.

But it's all very exciting.

But there is, look, I acknowledge the void.

And it's weird because we talk about the void in a general sense that, you know, everyone's got a void that they're trying to fill, at least those of us who know what I'm talking about, which is most of you.

You know, you can't stop moving or thinking or dancing around the edge of this inner void.

That

there's plenty of solutions.

You know, you've got the

God-sized hole

idea, which is not the one I go with, but

it's there.

You know, and when you make a big decision in your life or you change your life dramatically or you,

you know, you realize that something is going to be missing,

it becomes a little more difficult to not acknowledge and, you know, reckon with the void.

The void, you know, usually you're dancing around the edge and then all of a sudden something happens in your life and you're just sitting on the edge and you're kind of

inching a little bit toward you, kind of tempting yourself to fall into that void.

But I had this realization, thanks to you folks and just thinking about it, was an interesting thing.

All right.

So the night before I told you guys what was up,

I didn't know how to feel, you know, and I was alone in my house and I knew I was going to sort of

kind of lay this on you

on the precipice of doing it.

I had interesting feelings.

You know, it's like it's, it's, it's not quite like a breakup, but but it's just a slow sort of

a slow farewell.

But

I felt things.

You know, I was on that void or that feeling or that, like, what's going to happen?

Where am I going to go?

And I realized, like, you know, the void is,

it can be anything.

You know, it's a slight shift to see it as like a despairing, bleak, you know, terrifying, you know, black hole of

ill-defined, but, but not good.

Or you can see it as this world of possibility, you know,

maybe even happiness.

That when you take an element out of your life, or you're preparing to do that, or whatever,

it's horrifying.

And

it's painful.

But on the other side of that, all of a sudden you open up the life to other possibilities, whatever they may be, you know, whether they're professional or personal or just space.

But there is

an elevating feeling to that, but it's grounded in all the things, sadness, terror,

the things.

But I had another realization the other day that I think I'll share with you because

yesterday I interviewed Sarah Sherman from SNL.

And I always wanted to talk to her because I think she's

a true blue weirdo who does unique shit.

And I just didn't, I don't really know her.

But, you know, I'm a fan.

And we had a great conversation.

You'll hear that whenever we put it up.

But it was truly one of the beauties.

But she came over with a friend, her best friend, I think her name was Ruby.

And Ruby hung out on the porch while Sarah and I talked.

And then after the conversation, I went out there and I noticed Ruby, and she's got to be in her early 30s or whatever.

She's reading Faulkner and not just Faulkner, but The Sound and the Fury, right?

And this is a book that kind of changed my entire life somehow.

And I was just so thrilled.

I was like, oh my God, someone's reading The Sound and the Fury.

A young person is like, you know, is in the Faulkner.

And I kind of, I lit up and I was like, which section are you on?

Are you on the Benji section?

Where are you at?

Are you with?

And she said she's on the Quentin section.

I'm like, oh, Quentin doesn't end well for Quentin.

And then, you know, my brain just lit up.

And I was like, you know, we started talking about Faulkner.

They had both read Absalon Apsilon and they were just discovering this guy, the greatest writer ever.

And then, you know, somehow or another, we got to Bruce Wagner, and you guys know that I'm a Bruce Wagner freak.

And then I'm like showing them my Bruce Wagner books.

And then I told her about this book that I had in college by this guy named Clanth Brooks, who was like the Faulkner critic guy.

And it was just this feeling

of being lit up,

you know, by talking to people that, you know, excite you in terms of, you know, what you're interested in and what things that, you know, light you up or just to engage on that level, which is something I've done here for years.

But, you know, it's available to you.

It's available to you out in the world.

And it's something that, you know, is of primary importance in the world we live in and in the lives that we live isolated on our phones, afraid, full of weird panic and not really knowing what's going to happen.

And,

but, you know, if you have those people, like my buddy Sam, Lipside and I, we talk probably every day on the phone.

He's in New York.

But, you know, you have to have that these conversations I've had in here, but in life,

in life,

to pursue the conversations that excite you and just trigger your passions, trigger your creativity, trigger your, your understanding of the world, make you laugh.

I mean, I know maybe it's a tall order, but those people in your life are essential and they've always been essential to me.

And I think there's something about me that some of you have gleaned.

You know, I was kind of a, you know, a lost, wandering soul for a lot of my life, kind of, I had a very ill-defined sense of self.

And the way I defined that for a good chunk of it creatively was through anger.

But I was always looking for people to show me the way, to give me the answers, to give me a new perspective, to make me laugh, to make me me think, to blow my mind with creativity, to turn me on, whatever it is that that pursuit in life, and then to try to hold on to those relationships that continue to give you that

are just essential.

And I think that there's something about, you know, being isolated and being locked into patterns or locked into your phone or locked into beating the shit out of yourself or locked into fear or locked into

a kind of despair or stifled creatively.

It's like, I mean,

there are people out there that know how to talk and there are people out there that like what you like and there are people out there that can spark that excitement about art, about life, about, you know, try to stay away from the politics because that never leads to a good place.

But just the creativity and the soul-nourishing engagements of other human beings is fucking essential.

And if there's anything that I've learned from doing this show,

it's that.

But I also, you know, have it in my life and now will, you know, kind of, you know, make sure I nurture those relationships so you don't fall into that void.

You don't, you know, sit at home alone on the edge of it, wondering if it's going to suck you in.

So look, folks, as I said, Josh Hammy's here today, front man of the Queens of the Stone Age and also the band's Caius.

Caius.

The best, the Eagles of Death Metal.

He was on the show back in 2013 talking about the near-death experience he had after a MRSA infection.

Also, the first three episodes of the series Stick are now on Apple TV Plus.

I'm in that.

And it's, I think it's going to be touching.

Oh, my God.

And all the previous guests and people in my business have been reaching out and congratulating me and Brendan and saying what an amazing run it's been and what we've contributed.

And, you know, I don't know, man.

I feel okay.

I feel like the void is filled with possibility and

I've been re-energized to nurture and pursue relationships with people that

bring a lot to my life.

And

I don't know.

I hope you do as well.

And I've been doing a lot of comedy.

It's very funny, you know,

when I feel a loss or a pain or

a period of sort of floating, like I just lean in and I just go hit the stage, go to the comedy store and get up there and kind of yammer.

But I'm sort of in a different zone right now.

I'm kind of grounded in zero fucky.

It's kind of good to be zero fucky, you know, and just speak your mind.

I've been kind of going at the

kind of actively kind of trying to wrap my brain around the idea of the manosphere and

what that means to culture.

Obviously, I've done that for years.

I think probably ahead of anyone calling it the manosphere.

But it's a very odd thing, you know, these just yammering men behind microphones, you know, spending a lot of time, you know, talking about how they think women should be or

what a woman's role is.

And like to the point where it's obsessive.

And sometimes I think, like, why don't you take the women out of the equation and just fuck each other already?

Just do it.

Do us all a favor.

Let it go.

I mean, there are dudes that I read yesterday that are shaving their eyelashes off because

it's too feminine.

And they're like doing jaw exercises to make their jaws more pronounced.

And they're flying to Turkey to get hair transplants.

I mean, it just feels, and

they're just eating raw meat and getting ripped.

It feels like they're just evolving into some sort of gay fuckbot.

And I just don't know.

I don't know where this all ends up.

But I had this idea about, you know, the symbol,

there's a symbol, an ancient symbol, the Euroburos.

Burros.

I don't know if I'm pronouncing it right, but it's the snake eating its own tail.

And it's sort of a symbol for totality, I think, for wholeness.

It represents a totality.

And I sort of had this image in my head that I think that the symbol

for the manosphere's totality would be the cock eating its own balls.

I was so happy about that one.

I was like, oh, this is going to be great.

And then people were just sort of like, what?

What is he talking about?

All right, look.

So, this is a great conversation.

I always like seeing Josh Hammy.

He's a very

energized dude who just never stops working.

And the Queens of the Stone Age, Alive in the Catacombs, is available at qotsa.com.

And this is me talking to Josh.

Yeah, that I don't even know where I got that Iggy pillow,

but you know, when I interviewed him years ago, I was kind of amazed because, well, I mean, Rollins, Henry said, you know, well, you know, have you ever met Jim?

Right.

Jim.

And I'm like, I don't know what you mean.

Like, well, there's, there's Iggy and then there's Jim.

Yeah.

And Jim is a very erudite,

smart fucker.

Well-read.

Yeah.

You know, just

knows the thing.

Yeah.

And it was funny because he came over and I didn't really know what to expect.

And we were out at the old house where you were at.

And he's out on the porch and he's like, oh, yeah.

Nice day.

And then like, off comes the shirt.

I'm like, well, I guess it's going to be half Jim, half Iggy.

That's how this is going to go.

Yeah.

I mean, I think you want half Jim, half Iggy.

In my experience, making a record with him and touring with him

and sort of trying to do a Hail Hill rock and roll thing where we're armored up in suits, you know, this sort of be the Keith to the Chuck, Barry.

I think you probably had an easier go of it.

I would think so.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But that was the attempt, just the visual.

I love that concert footage and the video and stuff.

I never know how those things happen.

How did you get chosen?

Did you say to Iggy, like, let's get this down?

No, it was the best thing of my artistic life, actually.

It was?

Yeah, it was,

I got a text and it said,

that phone got destroyed, and I've got a lot of things.

How don't things get destroyed?

I have a very checkered past.

The phone got destroyed?

I mean, lost maybe, but destroyed.

Well, they're the same in my life.

It got lost against a wall.

Yeah, it was completely lost against a completely different, a wall that was unknown to me.

and uh but it was a text that essentially said uh i think we should collaborate on something and that would be nice the uh the text had that tone iggy pop it was from michigan yeah and and i lost my fucking mind he's got a michigan number no he had a it was a it was a miami number okay yeah yeah yeah you know so oh yeah

i think he's lost many phones as well sure so you lost your mind yeah i just was like you know i i immediately romanticized it to the point where I was like, this means even my mistakes have led me to this spot where I'm receiving this call.

I took it as rubber stamping that I'm headed the right direction.

Well, it's sort of like from one of the immortals.

Yeah.

Well,

certainly because one of the originators, you know, it's, it, there is no such thing as

somebody else like him.

And I, and I do, I do think that, you know, I'm from a small town.

Like

when I was growing up in Palm Desert, the whole place was maybe 30,000 people.

Yeah.

The whole space, you know.

Yeah.

And he's from Ann Arbor or where?

He's from Ann Arbor.

But, you know, in my town, if it's like, man,

you're one in a million.

It's like, no, you're one in 30,000.

And that's pretty good.

Yeah, pretty good.

But then when you move, you know, then you play a gig in Riverside, which is

bigger, you know, maybe 150,000 at the time.

It's like, you're one in a million.

It's like, no, 150,000.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But

i believe that iggy is actually a one in a how many there's he's the only billion just say he's the only one yeah it's like one in seven six billion maybe there's right and it's it's so interesting to uh kind of like well he's a guy

right he's a front man so you know how he's going to come off uh or or what the kind of tone or or part of the the collaboration with him is it's all it's all you know as a band it's like that's a lot of it because he just picks bands.

Well, I think he has gotten to the spot where he can sort of cherry-pick these.

You know, at the time he was saying, This is my last record.

I'm going to do this.

This is my statement.

Sure.

And, you know, over the years, I would say, if I if I was going to play with Iggy, I would do this.

And it changed over the years.

Yeah.

You know, and by the time we got together, it was the perfect time in that he was 69.

and it was like, what does this 69-year-old

rock originator, music originator,

what is their voice?

You don't hear that perspective that much.

And he had a lot to say.

Yeah.

So I can't remember.

The album was all new stuff, right?

Yeah, it was all new stuff.

But when you did the concert, you did some classics.

What we did is focused on the first two albums of his, which was The Idiot and Less for Life.

Yeah, those are the best.

And there was a lot lot of things that never get played in that zone.

Really?

Yeah.

Well, yeah, like, you know, it's like Sister Midnight

or

this song called Mass Production that I really love.

It's just all these things.

Dumb, dumb boys.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so it was a chance to, and also

I treated it like.

Like, you know, it's like, for a minute, I work at the Smithsonian and I'm trying to recreate this thing and restore this thing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And felt like that was my role in this Right.

Is to try to be as respectful as possible.

Well, yeah, but also like, you know, lending because tonally, that stuff is, I mean, I think that, you know, the idiot's up your alley.

Oh, yeah.

It's deep inside my alley.

Yeah.

So whatever's going to come out of you is going to be, you know, you kind of channeling something as opposed to mimicking it.

Yeah, well, it's fun to do a Rubik's cube, which is not your cube.

Yeah.

You know, I bet.

And just say, I got a side, it's all purple.

But I imagine he's like somebody who's just going to respond to the thrust of the thing.

Was he picky about how you were handling the music?

No,

it was very interesting because, and I mean this as just as an observation without any judgment.

He's definitely the most loner guy that I know.

He's all alone.

What he's thinking and what he's gone through

at times, you know, I thought it's like the Stooges and Iggy have started and influenced your favorite bands in the world that got huge.

Yeah.

And it took 30 years for one of the Stooges records to go gold.

And when

this...

Oh, because of the Nike commercial.

Yeah, it was some things like that.

Yeah, yeah.

And

he has the longest time release of...

I'm aware of where you put out records and people actively hate you more than they like you.

Yeah.

And people couldn't stand the Stooges when they came out.

And so

it took so, it took 30 years for what he did to be recognized properly and understood.

Yeah.

And that is a lonely amount of time in between.

It's just, it just is.

And but he made tons of records.

Tons of records, but but oftentimes Iggy gives his 100%,

but he'll collaborate with someone at times where you're like,

don't do that.

Don't do that.

And so he's putting 100% on top of something that's 40%.

But you guys made a great record, and the concert was great.

It was just fun.

And he is 100% all in all the time.

Oh, yeah.

But I, you know,

it's weird because even Lust for Life, that didn't get the attention it deserved until Train Spotting, really.

Really?

Right.

The movie, because it was like a big part of that movie.

And then I know the story of

Search and Destroy showing up on that Nike ad that was in, you know, movie theaters because my buddy, do you know John Daniel at Crush Management?

No, he's a good guy.

Yep, you know,

but he was in publishing and he knew the guy.

He was, he was just a dude looking at titles.

Yeah, right.

For a commercial,

you know, on a catalog.

Right.

And he thought, search and destroy.

I didn't know that.

That's amazing.

Yeah.

Let's hear that.

Yeah.

It had nothing to do with Iggy.

Right.

And then it became huge.

Yeah.

Good for him.

You know, he had this thing.

He also did,

because his voice is, you know,

like this.

He did some kind of voiceover thing for like a Sainsbury in England, and Last for Life was on Carnival Cruises.

And someone asked him,

you know,

you've sold your song to

some commercials.

Yeah.

You know, is that selling out?

And what do you think about that?

And he said, well,

I think three things.

One, I think

the original meaning behind the song exists and cannot be changed.

Yeah.

Two, anything that funds the arts is a good thing.

Sure.

And three, go fuck yourself.

So

after working with him, did you guys, do you still talk?

Oh, yes,

on the reg.

It's funny because

I don't call as much as I want to.

And I think there's still a part of me that's like,

I don't know, maybe just a touch nervous, even though we're buddies and I love him and we've had all these, we've argued.

You know what I mean?

Oh, yeah, what did you argue about?

Well, you know, I just, I think

it's not like a legit, like, you know, boyfriend, girlfriend arguing.

It's just

you have disagreements and that's what friends need to have.

This isn't an ask-kissing.

Like Chuck and Keith.

It's not, yeah, it's not.

Only the beginning Carol.

But it's not my job to simply be his cheerleader and say yes to everything

and nor his job to agree with what I have to say.

Sure.

And so I think those kind of spats are necessary to prove your friends.

Yeah.

Are you going to do something with him again?

I mean, I'm always at the rest.

Honestly, I could have done that for the rest of my career

in his band.

Yeah, yeah.

And

sort of, you know, he was very gracious about, go ahead, you can pick the set list.

Go ahead.

You know,

but he did that knowing what he was doing.

It was was not trust him.

Well,

I think so.

I'd like to think so.

But also he was like, I'm going to do what I'm going to do.

Yeah.

And I just love that.

And, you know, even though we got quite close and are still quite close,

I still have a great respect.

meeting him gave me and working with him gave me more respect for him.

That's good.

Could have went the other way.

Well, he is who he says he is.

And this is, you know, I was going to say about you as i was driving up here i was like you know thing about you is is that you're like you're like i'm this yeah yeah i'm i'm this yeah can't help it yeah this this is what it is i push back on it but it can't yeah well but you're fighting up a river that is your river i know yeah tell me about it my fucking life but it but i i think the coolest thing you could be is simply yourself or it's like as oscar wilde said be yourself everyone else is taken yeah That's a good one.

And so

I think my reverence for Iggy

is rooted in that he is who he says he is.

That's for sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

All of it.

Where are you at with that?

How are you feeling about you?

I feel great.

Are you who you say you are?

Yeah.

You arrived at yourself.

I are this.

You know what?

Especially

just had such an intense grouping of years these last.

Yeah, no, I can't remember the last time we talked, but you know i think when we talked

well you you you had gotten a long time ago it was and you were just going sort of public about you know the dying on the table business yeah and i've i've since i've since been close to death again what the fuck dude you know that's about my fourth time but i gotta say every time i always feel

really supercharged and i would hope so and yeah i mean i it's like i've i kept saying this this time i kept saying uh you know i never felt so alive as i did the day i almost died.

I never felt so alive.

What the fuck happened this time?

When was this?

I had a little bit of cancer for a sec.

Which kind?

Well, I kind of keep that one to my, you know,

but I had,

it wasn't the fun kind, but

I was able to get it so early that surgery was the way to work.

Would you feel it?

Or

did it pop up?

I was on a Christmas trip skiing with my brother

and I coughed and I coughed blood on the snow.

Oh my God.

It was was like a dramatic way to cough blood.

Blood on the snow sounds like a

record.

Yeah.

Blood on the snow this weekend.

Yeah, where's that song?

But it looked actually crazy,

kind of cool.

The goth side of it.

It's like, that's there you go with that.

We did it.

Yeah, we did it.

Finally.

Yeah.

Finally, man.

But I was very lucky to

be able to catch it so early that I was able to

just cut things away.

Oh, yeah.

I got it.

Yeah, and I got it.

And it was nice and early.

How long was the recovery on that?

Well, I had some complications with the cut.

Oh, there you go.

You know, which I, which, which

sepsis?

I had a little bit of that, yeah.

And that's the other one, MRSA.

I had that too once.

You know, it's a cavalcade of, I'm trying to do the hometown buffet.

You can get it at hospitals.

I'm trying to do the hometown buffet of hometown.

Oh, my God.

God damn it.

But those things end up, you know, I'm intense sometimes.

And so those things always, they make me pause.

Yeah.

And in those moments of reflection, I always end up feeling pretty thankful after that.

Well, I mean, does that, when you come out of something like that, because your songs are pretty almost operatic sometimes.

Yeah.

But, you know, when you come out of what, a second or a third sort of run-in with

death, because I know on the catacombs video, there's that song about suturing the future.

Right.

Was that out of this?

No, that's an old one.

It's an old one.

Is that a cover of you?

Yeah, it's me covering me.

So it's an old, it's an old Queen's song.

All of them are Queen's tunes.

Oh, none of them are new?

And I'm not deep into the catalog, so they're all sort of versions.

Yeah.

Well, it's kind of cool to

say, what if we didn't write the tune the way it was and and just acted like we're writing it over again?

Oh, okay.

But did you write coming out of the hospital?

Does that stuff move you too?

Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely.

I mean,

we're doing some recording now, you know.

And, you know, I was

with the big sound?

Yeah, with the

getting close to things like that,

in the moment, it's obviously sucks, and there's no other way around it.

But the fear of it.

I mean, like, I mean, because like, I know kind of moving towards this,

whatever we'll get to it,

the intention was to record in the catacombs.

But, I mean,

when you have these moments, given who you are and what you've been through, do you feel fear?

I mean, absolutely.

The first two are like, fuck it.

Well,

you know,

a lifetime of trying to accept things as they are and not be the last guy to hold on too tight to something.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know,

and wanting to be that way.

Yeah.

And it's hard to do.

Yeah.

You know, it's so hard to just accept something as it is.

Yeah, because it's powerlessness.

Yeah.

Yeah.

To have to turn it over.

I know that one.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And

that turning over is a

is

a skill that seems like you have to develop and not a talent you're born with.

Well, also, like, if you have a certain disposition, if you've been fighting something your whole life or you just have that personality, and you know, I, you know, I have an addicts personality, and,

you know, the idea of being powerless or turning something over, it's like there's a vulnerability to it.

But

it's not like you're all of a sudden in danger, but you just feel fucking, you know, soul naked.

Yeah, it's that fucking nightmare.

That vulnerability where it's like, you know, you drain the ocean and there's what's left.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Here I am.

Yeah, so I'm going to be blown away by a wind of insanity.

Well, I think I've always been a bit of a, you know,

if it's fight or flight, I'm not much of a runner.

So

I needed to learn to sort of, you know,

the word surrender was a big one.

Yeah.

Because I was always like, give up.

There's no fucking way I'm going to give up.

You know?

Yeah.

You know, but someone tapped me on the shoulder finally and and was like, no, no, no, give in.

And I was like, oh, no one's going to say anything.

I've been around for 40-some years at the time when I heard this.

And I was like, nobody else is going to say give in.

Nobody here.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Give in's like proactive.

Yeah, and a little sexier, frankly.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Like I hang that on my wall.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, take, I'll take that.

Don't give up, give in.

I'll take that.

It's 5.30.

I'm drinking mommy juice or live, laugh, love, and I'll put up.

don't give up give in you know so that helped you it's funny how these little twists these little turns of phrases especially adami i don't know i don't know you being sober is that where you're at uh i'm i'm not sober but i'm not in any trouble you know not spiraling no i feel the fucking chasm you know but it's funny that actually it's something where i like

I probably I'll go and have a drink socially

and just have one drink, which is

not, you know, for you.

So that's the first time in

that's been my protocol for the last couple of years.

That's good.

As long as it just doesn't, you know, like, you know, awaken the beast.

Well, I'm sure there's a beautiful place in the world that I'll be thrown out of at some point.

But also, you know, I are who I are.

I look at this as a

it's a bit like, you know, you're talking about, are you recording loud or is it catacomb style?

Like,

you know,

you just keep doing something different because it's interesting.

And it's, you know,

changing up what you do.

Yeah, well, because it keeps you engaged with it.

Yeah.

It's funny because I, you know,

you know, Dean, Dean Delray, our mutual buddy,

he recorded a special in a cave and then you went into the catacombs to do whatever you did.

And you did the riff at the beginning of his special

for him.

That was nice yeah but it's funny because i recorded uh a hbo special last weekend and i put a band together and i wrote a riff and i was i was heavily my head was full of caias

a head full of caius is a sentence i haven't heard in a long time i had a head full of caias dude hold on hold on

i mean i don't know if you can identify it but last time me yeah last time you you i came here you had zz top tejas on and i remember being like oh yeah this is going to go well fuck yeah, man.

That was like 15 years ago or something like that.

I'll listen to Tejas.

I'll listen to what's that?

What do I got on my pre-show list for when I'm performing?

Oh, I've got just got paid, which is, I think, from Real Grande Mud.

Yeah, hold on, hold on.

See if I can.

I don't know.

I can't believe I'm playing this for you, but I think it's important.

Right?

Yeah, that's great.

That's got, that's definitely definitely got some of that in there.

Oh, I'm very happy.

Yeah, dude.

Yeah.

Like, it's funny about, like, I don't know what that is.

Like, I mean, I listen to Queen sometimes, but I'll fucking go back to it.

I listen to Caius a few times a month, dude.

Yeah, really?

Yeah.

I like being the Vegemite on your toast.

I mean, come on, dude.

So, like, now, did you, like, I was wondering when I was watching the catacombs,

like, I don't, are you close with

your buddy from

Eagles of Death Metal still?

Jesse, yeah.

So, like, because they went through that shit in France that was horrendous.

Yeah.

Was there any sort of connection to that that drove you to the catacombs?

Yeah, I mean, my, my, uh,

my,

yeah, I mean,

you know, that, that, uh, that was in the 2015.

There's a terrorist attack in the venue they were playing at killed a lot of people.

About a clown, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

And uh, you know, I was.

Were you supposed to be there?

I was, yeah.

My ex-wife was pregnant with our third child.

Yeah.

Oh.

And

she was like, please, I was doing the American tour.

Yeah.

With the Eagles.

And

I'd done some of the promo tour in England and through Europe.

Our record was just out.

And

she was like, please just don't go on the European tour.

I'm pregnant and we're about to

have a kid any week now.

And so two nights before I was to leave for Europe,

I found our replacement drummer and he just no rehearsal came and watched me play.

The last day was in San Francisco at the Great American Music Hall.

And then I waved them goodbye and they went.

And

it was, I think, two or three shows into the tour.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it was it was a

it was it's it's it's a very

you cannot be prepared for a geopolitical event when you're in a and you know you cannot be prepared for what

you cannot be prepared for

for being on the ISIS website, which is what Jesse and I were on, you know.

Was that after?

It turned out it was before.

I didn't know they had a website.

Why were you targeted?

You know, they were going to do, they were going to, you know, they were going to do something specific to us.

You know, that's part of the reason.

It was all part of a calculated.

But why you?

Why the Eagles of Death Metal?

I think that

if I'm just guessing here, and there's a lot of things that we were told that everyone else was not told,

which I'll probably keep that way.

But,

you know, I think they had...

an issue with the Baticlon in the same way they had issue with Charlie Hebdo.

Oh, okay.

And the French president was

and we were the perfect symbol of what was not to happen for them.

Oh, so you represented American Satan.

Yeah, basically.

And the Batakan has a history.

Was it a Muslim holy space?

No,

it's a Jewish-owned venue and

had held many events and protests

and free speech things.

And was that why you guys chose it?

We chose it.

It was chosen because it's one of the good venues in the world.

Right, okay.

And they do rock shows there.

Oh, yeah, all the time.

And the French president was having dinner next door, and they also attacked the soccer stadium, which was all within a small area.

And so it was a coordinated attack.

Just gunmen.

Yeah, assholes.

Oh, my God.

And so many people got killed.

And

so many.

So many.

So but your pals got out.

Jesse got out.

Everyone in the band made it out.

And

not all of my pals made it out and so many of the fans did not make it out.

And, you know,

I was at the studio with a guy who named B.O.C.

Brian O'Connor also played and toured with Eagles of Death Metal Live.

We were just recording some of his thing.

I wasn't on tour and I got this call from my friend Scotty.

There was all this noise in the background and he was just, you know, saying,

you know, they're shooting.

I got, that's not my blood, is that my blood?

And I was like, what?

What?

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, my God.

And I, and I, um, uh, so it was happening, and no one knew yet.

You know, I was getting the call in real time.

Yeah.

And,

you know, I it's funny in those situations how you you just turn off.

Yeah.

You know, you you

detach.

Yeah.

Like, you know, I.

Or you kind of go into a trauma of

immediate trauma reaction.

I'd quit smoking at the time.

And

so

there was this other guy there that was smoking.

So I just grabbed his pack of cigarettes, a box of,

you know, a box of something.

I think it was like vitamin powder and my motorcycle helmet and got in my car.

And I remember looking over like, why did I grab this stuff?

What did I, what am I,

and I just drove to my manager's office and

we began the process of sifting through whatever the fuck that was.

Yeah.

And

yeah.

Yeah.

Did they do any more dates or that was it, right?

No, we actually went back.

You went back?

In fact, in fact, you know, and I appreciate you skipping over that, having to skip over the details.

I would rather skip over lots of those details because it's fucking terrible.

But

one of the amazing things about my bandmates and the situation and Paris

was that we went back to finish the show and I went back with them.

Yeah,

it was on, I flew out on Valentine's Day, right?

So

to finish the show, which was a very short success.

That's interesting.

So

they had gotten through part of the show,

and then the shit went down.

And how long, how much later?

So it was November 13th that the attack occurred again.

And then we went, I flew back on Valentine's Day.

Oh, February.

And my son was born

on November 13th at 11.50.

I had a flight on Valentine's Day at 6 in the morning.

And my son was born at 11.58 on the 13th the night before.

You left.

And then I left at 6 in the morning the next day because I was like, I need to.

I mean,

with the full support of everyone,

I saw my son, I held him, and I did, and I got on the plane and went to Paris, and we finished that fucking show.

At the venue?

It was not at that venue.

It still was still at the time, it's open since.

Yeah, but it was still like an active.

It was definitely still

in the process of

being combed over completely.

Wow.

I mean, and doing whatever was necessary there, right?

And how was Jesse's head?

I mean, you know, it's impossible to unsee what

my beautiful friends went through, you know.

And

so, you know, I know that they all each in their own way have had to deal with

what is sort of impossible for me to do anything but empathize with.

Yeah, I can't even.

I mean, I know

it's like I had all kinds of just

things that are unimportant to the story.

But

And that ultimately.

What, reaction-wise?

It just was hard to, it was hard to

have sent someone to my place.

It was hard to

know that.

It was hard to

get my head around.

My main concern was bringing everyone home and bring them home in a safe way.

Right.

But party was like, I should have been there.

Yeah, I had a lot of, it took me a while to

feel

good.

Yeah.

Sure.

And of so many people that wish I knew and like, it's like

people that were in the front row for years.

Oh, so these were fans that you had a relationship with.

Yeah, and it's like a relationship that's like, oh, I see you.

I see you.

Yeah, yeah.

And like, you know, a crew of girls that always would dress the similar and that met each other because it's like, you know, I wrote down all their names and there were so many siblings, you know.

And they're gone.

Yeah, they're gone.

And

so it just took me, it just,

those are the sort of

emotional, you know, blockades that you're just like, how do I, what do I,

what do I

do?

Yeah, and

the grief gets just,

it's the other thing about powerlessness and about, you know, what your own place in the world is and then how to deal with whatever, you know grief and regret and you know anger all that stuff in fact this is the only time and the most i've ever talked about this

and you did this to me last time i somehow you got you got me to talk about like getting off drugs and shit and it was i uh but i you know i think um

you you have all these strange

um they're completely unique to a situation like that feelings which you've never had to deal with yeah where you're like i should have been there.

But outside wild.

None of it is about you.

Like it seems like, oh, but that's the hard part too, is you're like, I need to shut the fuck up and never talk about this ever.

Well, I don't know.

My story doesn't fucking matter.

Well, I see what you're saying.

Sure, sure.

But like, and that's sort of contrary to your story always mattering because you're the one who's the main character in your own thing, right?

And you were the one that caused a lot of your own fucking misery

before.

Sure.

So now all of a sudden, you know, you have to reckon with something out of control that involved your friends, your fans.

And you watch your friends and your fans and the people that were lost.

That's fucking terrible.

You know, it's like go-to, shake someone's hand, which does not have a hand.

And then you go, and you just think, like,

and you say, I have no right to have any,

I have only the right to shut up and listen.

Yeah, and be empathetic.

And

be gracious.

It does not matter.

What I've realized, actually,

is that there are scenarios, there are situations which occur and it does not matter if you like them or not.

They are here.

And you must

not get hung up on telling yourself if you do or do not like them.

Right.

That's interesting.

You must.

This is where I'm so appreciative of my grandparents and my parents.

They're just great people.

And like,

where it's like, there's no time for you to be thinking about you right now.

It's like you need to move move forward.

Yeah, hardship is hardship.

Yeah, th this is actually

a massive part of everyday life for many people.

Just you need to, you, you, um, this is a great time for you.

You, you can feel and cry later.

This is the perfect time for you to just be quiet and move forward.

Let's go.

And show up.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Don't go anywhere.

Don't you fucking move.

So when you went back to to finish the set, was that just like that that must have at least you you felt like you could connect and honor

your fans, yourself,

and

try to help in the healing, right?

Well,

there are so few,

it's almost like maybe there's ne'er enough moments where you get to show who you really are,

and where

the opportunity for you to

be yourself and show who you are and rise to that moment.

Yeah.

And where it's like, are you going to do it or not?

Don't say anything.

Just do it or not.

What are you going to do right now?

And so I feel really thankful for the opportunity.

Like

it sounds a bit like Tony Robbins or something, but I really was like, I'm honored to do what I'm about to do right now.

Sure.

And

so it really felt like

I cannot, it's the same thing I tell my kids and stuff.

It's like, when you have sad feelings or you're, I cannot make this go away, but I will sit with you.

Right.

I'll sit with you.

Sure.

I don't have to say nothing.

And like, I will sit here until it subsides and then we can stand up together.

Well, that, well, that's like, you know, that, you know, I said that about grief after, you know, my girlfriend passed away.

Is that,

is that,

you know, all anyone has to do is sit there.

Yeah.

You know, like people are like, I don't know what to do.

How do I handle this person's sadness?

It's like, just show up.

Yeah.

And just be present.

Yeah.

And

that's it.

And whatever comes from that comes from that.

Yeah.

But there's nothing you have to do other than be present.

Well, I think you've nailed it.

And oftentimes people do not know what to do.

And

so they naturally stay away or they make that mistake, which I think is ultimately selfish.

It's just a mistake and it's a mistake of anxiety and uncomfortability.

And I understand the mistake.

Sure, but maybe it's not selfish, just fear.

It is.

And it's like, oh my God, I don't know what to do.

And I'm like, oh, I can't.

And not wanting to face things yourself like that.

But it's the most human of things.

It's just that the fact that you.

It's the most guaranteed thing.

Well, death, yeah.

But also the fact that there's no language around it.

And culturally, it's something we all try to avoid.

And individually, our entire mode of existence is to deny that that's going to happen or at least not think about it.

But it's going to happen to everybody.

It's going to happen to people around you, right?

So because there's not any sort of logic or not logic, but language around it, people just freak out.

Everyone's freaked out about death.

That's the entire capitalist system is driven by that.

You know, avoid it.

Yeah.

Eat some stuff.

Buy some shit.

Yeah.

Get on board.

Well, you know, as somebody that

I don't care about left and right and all that shit.

I don't care.

As someone that's driven by escapism and the value of art making your world better and creating

an escapist moment for you away from all that.

And then ideally, that allows you to make a better informed decision because you've gotten this little reprieve from all that space.

Yeah, but also like art, you know, the weird thing is, is that I don't know necessarily that, you know, the way you approach music and your evolution, you know, within it and sort of like how much you've grown over the years in terms of being an artist and also lyrically, it's not really, it may be escapism, but music

is informed by feelings.

Sure.

And

poetically,

creates

a space of emotion for those who listen to it that is really theirs to do what they're going to do with.

There's nothing like music in the sense that once it's out there, it could

get people through any number of things.

You have no idea who got it, where it went to, and what they did

or how they used this tool.

Or how it helped them.

Or what it helped them process emotionally.

So, like, it's weird because I do draw some sort of strange line in my head now that we're just talking about it and thinking out loud between something that is inherently escapist and something that is a true expression of

art or

whatever it is that comes from a place

that is informed by one's own struggle.

Well, I do,

for me,

the entryway to this escapist is the entryway to this

journey of emotion starts with all the marketing out front is like, escape, quick, take a minute away.

That's my way to get you in the door.

I will turn the lights out.

Yeah.

And you and your best friends, I'll make the music loud and you guys can conspire together.

Sure, sure.

You can make it like, that's my, to me, that's the old, like, the T.

Barnum side of this.

It's like, I will lure you in with escaping, the escaping

norms and trappings.

And then as we, and then

ideally,

that's just the worm on the hook to get you in,

but now walk where it gets dark over there.

Yeah, exactly.

That's where I am.

Right.

I make music for the 50th listen, not the first listen.

And

I know that some people listen to music on the way to the bank, and that's not my fault, and that's okay.

Yeah, yeah, but that's not where I'm at.

I want someone when they're at their worst to be like, I know what to play right now.

Right, right.

And I guess that's escapism, but I guess I'm drawing a hard line.

You know, like, obviously, you know, let's enter this world that isn't the world.

Sure.

It's escapism.

But, you know, once you're in the world, like, we're going to do some shit.

Oh, yeah.

It's going to get

darker.

Yeah, but it's not mindless.

I guess that's the distinction I'm not making.

It's like, you know, there's some part of my brain that thinks escapism is mindless, but it's not.

Yeah, I think that's why I love, you know, I always thought like marketing, that's what the devil would do.

Sure, that's, that is the devil.

You know, and and, but I thought, well, okay, what if I re-engineer that to my purpose?

And it's funny.

True.

That's the deal you made with the devil.

Yeah, and it's like, it's like, come on in now.

You want to, you know, what?

I'll give you a night you'll never remember.

Yeah, yeah.

All that shit.

You with the face, get in here.

Yeah, yeah.

Right.

And I love that carnival barking attraction.

Sure.

You know, I, I, because it has taboo and danger.

And, you know.

But so much of rock and roll is about that, too.

Yeah.

Yeah, but that's really only the facade of this.

Sure.

And it's not, it's a facade, but it's not fake.

It's just the front entry away.

Yeah, it's a fine line between, you know, carnival barking.

snake oil salesman and preaching.

Right, right.

It's really the same guy.

Totally.

Yeah.

Right.

And so because that is the way,

but the other,

once you've wormed that hook, and I also like the teasing and the tricking and the, you know, the releasing of little things, it's fun to

tantalize.

Put on a show, man.

Right.

Show biz.

Yeah.

You know, and but I, but it must end up sitting down around a fire.

playing the best version of kumbaya that you actually cry when you hear the voice.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, that's like music's magic, you know?

Yeah, it's the only medium that I know that's never wrong.

Yeah.

You know, you cannot like someone's music, and that's totally fine.

But, you know, you show me the worst music in the world, and I'll show you 300 people that are ready to die for that.

Sure, they love it.

Yeah.

Well, that's.

It's just never wrong.

No, because

it has.

Music is different than anything else because

it exists in the ether and it never goes away.

And you can just pull it out of of the ether and it and it works its magic every time for you.

Yeah.

And much like ether, it's got this intoxicating effect.

Yeah.

And totally.

That where you're you're kind of like altered by it when you really focus in on it.

Yeah.

You know, I mean, that there is a feeling that you get that is akin to like leaving a first date where you're like excited and you're like, oh my God, what is, what is that?

Yeah.

Do it again.

Right.

Yeah.

And you can.

Right.

Yeah.

And you can, and I like a first date.

I'm going to play this song all night long.

And it feels like the first time.

Yeah.

Until it doesn't, and then you wait a couple months and you kick it on again.

I'm fucking, you know, I'm like, like, it.

Wait, this is Foreigner.

It feels like the first time.

Yeah, yeah.

Which, you know, some people love.

Some people are replaying that song.

I just wish Foreigner wouldn't.

Foreigner live at the wall.

No, please don't do it to yourselves.

I had a very bad moment with that, with seeing some of the reels of Angus now.

Oh, yeah.

And it's sort of like, oh, come on, dude.

Well, I do think this is the toughest thing

for music is

how to age gracefully in a way that, when I look at Willie Nelson, I'm like, fucking look at Willie Nelson.

Yeah, but

he's one of the only ones.

It's the hardest thing to possibly do for music.

Well, because, well, his type of music

is like eventually you can sit down and play that shit.

It's all pre-olded.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's ready to age.

It's been pre-aged for you.

You know, and like I saw, who did I say?

I saw X, you know, Billy Zooms.

He's just sitting.

He's sitting now.

You know, and Egg Zine, somehow or another, you know, is still kind of menacing and sexy.

You know, those guys

knock it out.

Yeah.

But and even like within the stones, I mean, like, Keith is doing okay.

Yeah, Keith is fucking great.

Yeah, but Mick gets sort of like,

okay, yeah, you keep doing it, buddy.

You know, well, you, if you're a fan, you want to keep rooting them on, but there's a line crossed where I'm like, it's getting a little sad, fellas.

Yeah, well, you know,

I think there's guys like Leonard Cohen, which where you saw at the end, where you say, wow, this is still just a little bit more.

Sure, but he's a guy who stands still.

The music lends itself to it.

But I think that's what's, you know, I look at

a musician's career as something that's like

planetary.

It's spinning on its axis and it needs to keep changing and preparing itself for that next thing.

Well, yeah, and I think I'm probably being a little ageist.

Well, not really, because

the truth is sometimes you watch some old fuckers on stage and you're like, for God's sake,

please don't.

Can you hand out these don'ts I just made?

And I get it because it's actually the most dangerous game for any musician is how will you age and what will that mean?

And will you baton pass into the next phase of your thing correctly?

Yeah.

In a way that's still, that's like, that's becoming

of a young man.

Sure.

But oddly, if they can still deliver the goods,

it'll lift it.

Yeah.

You know, but there are moments like, you know, guns is out there, but they're, they're not as old as like the stones.

And

they still seem to be delivering.

Yeah.

You know, and sometimes I just don't know.

Part of me,

because you know, I don't live in the world of that type of competition, but part of me is like, don't you,

you don't need the money.

Right.

Right.

You can't need the money.

Right.

So what is it?

And then it's just sort of like, well, this is what we do.

Yeah, I suppose it's, it's, but it's like comedy in that there's not a real reason to retire.

The reason to retire would be like, shit, no one's here.

Totally.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Or else like they're starting to go away.

Right, right.

But there's an exception there.

It's like, you know, your relevance diminishes.

Right.

You know, and you're going to play smaller halls.

Yeah.

But like Bob Dylan, like Bob Dylan, I think he just wants to die on a bus.

I was, you know,

there's worse ways to go.

Sure, man.

But, like, I think he sees himself as, like, I've kind of reassessed that whole guy recently.

Yeah.

Because I don't know why I didn't realize it.

You know, he's almost like this, you know, like almost like

a savant, but he's, you know, he's a cipher.

He's like this, you know, brilliant vessel that things move through.

It's almost like a spectrum character.

I I think you also have to be willing to be a bit of a cunt, which I think he also is probably too.

Yeah, but that's just to protect his vulnerable genius.

Sure, but I think you have to have a willingness to be like, no, no, go fuck yourself.

Like one of the funniest, one of the funniest.

Yeah, the willingness to say no.

So, interesting thing.

I never went and saw a doctor, and I, and I, and right before the Iggy record that I made, was the nine, nine or ten years ago now.

Like,

I went went to this doctor for the very first time

as an adult.

And he was kind of a merging holistic, you know, Easton, Eastern, Western philosophy.

Sure.

And it was all based in blood work.

Yeah.

Now I know one of these guys.

Was he down off by the highway?

Yeah.

He put his sign down and took my blood.

And then you go back and he's got a stack of papers.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's the guy.

You've been there.

I have.

And he's like, well, this is not good this might mean we should do this did you have to do a stamp on well no but i'm still willing to

he uh he he told me he was like uh you know i didn't know what type of blood type i had and he was like you have uh oh positive right and i said and and i said fine and he's he said does that mean anything to you and i said absolutely not yeah he said do you find yourself doing things for other people?

He's like, you can give blood to anyone, but you cannot receive it from anyone except opiate.

Yeah, right.

Oh, interesting.

So he's like, you're a universal donor, but you cannot receive anything but this.

Sure.

Yeah, that's your nature.

I am a rock.

But he was like, I think that somehow you are someone that has said yes to things that you probably didn't want to do.

And what I want you to do is, my diagnosis is I want you to go home, pick five things you've said yes to, and cancel them.

Yeah.

You know, and cut to your living in an apartment.

I love that.

And, well, and I said, why am I doing this?

And he said, you have to make space in your life for the right thing to come in.

Oh, interesting.

Yeah.

And I was like, okay.

And so I actually listened to this advice.

And I, there were five things which I'd said yes to, which I just wasn't at, just was doing it as a favor.

And I canceled these things.

And a week later, Iggy called me.

Wow.

And so because I don't have any other empirical evidence, I was like, God damn it.

I have no choice now but to believe this motherfucker.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, what am I going to do?

Yeah, why not?

There's no other evidence based in what he just said.

Right.

But,

you know, if you break it down, that's it's not,

it doesn't have to be relative to your blood work.

Right.

Sure.

These are just these nicotine patches.

I'm on everything, man.

I got the pouches.

I got the ons.

I'm back on the line.

I just got a over each nipple yeah the nicotine patch yeah yeah no i i'm not i got some patches because i'm done i'm tired of these and you can't get the flavors anymore in in you have to go to a smoke shop no i know but but they there you got it i know one that'll sell you the flavor yeah i love that i love that that's a thing but it's it's illegal yeah that's why isn't that why do you know where it is well there's a bunch there's you know what they have the flavors oh yeah i bet they have like peppermint and spearmint and everything else oh yeah oh good yeah i got i got one in hollywood yeah but there but i got a guy i got a guy yeah i got

i got a guy you gotta have a guy you gotta have a guy the fucking problem is man you go you go out of state they're like five bucks a tin yeah and you got if you go get one of the go to your guy to get the the flavored ones like twelve bucks yeah well yeah i don't give a shit but i'm just saying it's like you know when i it's funny i when i go on the road i'm like give me two rolls of the peppermint you know but it's interesting you're on the threes and you're pretty hardcore because i can't if i do a six knocks me out dude i i i want to keep the low milligram so so that I'm not.

Yeah, well, it's just so that I'm not like, oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Trying to like not feed the mindset.

Oh, yeah, but I'm already there.

I'm on, I did it.

I'm doing them mid-set, dude.

And I'm a comic.

I can't go turn my back to the fucking amp and have a drink.

No, I've got to be like, I'm doing this.

I think it's great to just.

This is where I'm at.

Yeah.

I say, look, I'm an addict.

And if I can just have one little thing to keep the big empty away, I'm good.

Because, like, you know, it's like,

yeah, once the nothingness comes, and then, yeah, then some people are like, well, you should be more Buddhist and embrace the nothingness.

I'm like, I'm not there yet.

I'm at the edge of the void with my nicotine as my shield and my ego as my sword, swatting at nothing.

Man, I'm more Buddhist.

I want to get everyone to shake their ass.

Yeah.

Oh, Buddhist.

There you go.

But, okay, so, but what I was going to say is that that advice is not, it doesn't have to be relative to blood work.

That's a sick guy.

That's that guy's P.T.

Barnuming.

And it just worked on you.

It worked, though.

What choice?

See,

I've lived my life by sort of trying to notice the positive signs along the road

and that sort of thing, you know?

Yeah.

All right, so going back to get to the catacombs.

Now,

when you went and finished the concert in Paris, it must have been moving.

But was there closure there?

On some level?

Did you feel for the fans, for yourself?

Oh, yeah.

I mean, you know,

as I said before,

that realization that

there are just things that you have to deal with that doesn't matter if you like them or not, they're here.

And like I said, this is the most I've ever talked about.

But I realized that the reason I don't talk about it is because it doesn't make me feel better or worse.

It doesn't do anything.

It's just, that's just a sucking sound that's like, that is like

tinnitus.

It's just a ringing that I hear that right if i look at it i'm like fuck

and i uh so i try to just live with it yeah and and um

and honestly i in general i try not to talk about it because as i said it doesn't i never feel

better

and it's i uh it's not my story i i it is and it is my story at the same time and and i don't know how to explain that and when i do explain it i don't feel better right but but the but the concert was good going back absolutely.

Yeah, it was it was because it was something else.

Yeah, totally

it did not close or fix what that what happened, but what it did was it it's it showed the willingness of everyone who attended.

Yeah, where I'm willing to do this.

I want you to see my will.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I'm here.

Yeah.

And that's the most that someone can do.

And we're together.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, what's the most important things other than your time and your energy?

Right.

and creating and honoring the community

that was affected and also, you know, showing up for the community that you are part of and created.

Yeah, and yeah, that, you know, because you say things like,

everyone's here, you know.

Yeah.

Well, so from that,

is this

desire or this, you know, winding up in the catacombs of the same city part of that trajectory?

Well,

it is because you start to develop, you know, you know, this from touring for so many years, you start to develop a relationship with cities and towns.

Sure.

And you start to have this kind of romantic connection to these things.

And sometimes it's a bad breakup of a city, and sometimes it's just a love affair.

Like my brother married his husband in Paris.

That was a big moment for me.

I just loved that moment so much.

And the Baticlon.

And then it was,

you know,

I've had so many moments in that city.

Well, it's a notorious city for moments.

It's set up to do this thing, and it works.

And to be fair, I romanticize.

I'm looking for something romantic to cling to

because I don't want to, you know, touring and things like that.

And it can burn you out and make you feel bitter and unappreciated what's going on so you can't.

You make you a show of yourself.

Yeah, and I sometimes turn into an animal out there.

I regress, you know,

because I don't know what to do and I feel lonely.

I know.

It's like for some reason, the loneliness, like, even if you're on your way for three days, you know, that second day in a hotel, you're like, who am I?

Yeah.

What am I doing?

Yeah.

What am I doing with my...

I feel like I ate too many edibles.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's just worse.

And you're just at a hotel near a mall.

Yeah.

Well, but that's part of the problem and part of the solution, too.

And because it's all about outlook

and because the sacrifice of saying, why do I leave everyone I love and care for to go do something all by myself?

And like, what am I to stave that off?

But also, there's nothing.

You remember it?

Oh, I get it.

But

you also get to that point where you're like, I like hotels.

Yeah, of course.

Quiet.

I don't have to clean up.

Exactly.

I just leave myself behind here.

It's quiet.

But the romantic element.

So what was your uh relationship with the catacombs well i i

you know this is all connected is yeah is the thing is that uh you know i remember seeing photographs of the paris catacombs as a boy yeah and and and instantly having thoughts that were new to me and uh that were like you end up like so and you can end up here and this is and also instead of the taboo of death that i'd understood as a boy it was like

the catacombs, nobody does that because they're like, I fucking hate these people.

It's

a mine which was dug for coal and things like that.

And then

with so many bodies and so much happening in Paris, they decide to move six million.

people there.

What is the history?

Was it different?

Was it the plague and then the wars?

When did they stop using it functionally?

They stopped, I believe they stopped using it dug out in the 1500s, but there's accounts of it dug out as early as 1300.

Right.

And then in, I believe, the 1700s, they start moving this overflow that's been piling up for years.

That's, I mean,

and that's just kind of finally come to a head.

You know, you talk about skulls.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like all the everything that's happened.

And so they start to...

Stacking skulls.

Right, but stacking them lovingly.

They're not like

these people it's it's people that are doing this with such a reverence and a respect yeah

um and you know because your initial thought is stacking bones that doesn't seem respectful but no but it is it's this like you know like massive monument to the inevitability

right the inevitability of death yeah yeah which is life right so death is inevitable yeah and and and this is like on some level a celebration of the inevitable but those of us who are alive, you know, you look at it with awe.

You don't look at it with horror.

You would think it would be horror.

And don't look away, you know.

Yeah, yeah, you can't.

You're surrounded by skeletons.

And I think, well,

figuratively, literally, and not just in there.

And, you know, in what we're talking about, too, it's like this need.

I've just had this

need, and I think I've romanticized it to help me look.

It's like, what am I trying to say?

That when things are tough, don't look away.

Yeah, Yeah, right.

Stare into this thing.

If you're afraid of 10 things, nine times out of 10,

if you look into this thing, you won't.

You realize I don't need to be afraid of it.

That's right.

And that tenth time when you should be afraid, now you fucking know you should be.

Yeah, that's right.

And you understand that you should be.

Yes.

And I want the understanding.

You want to know when to be afraid.

Yeah, for real.

And when to like not, if I don't need to fuck with being afraid, I don't want to.

And also somebody like you who has like you know cheated death several times and you know had a certain amount of

you know kind of self-destructive propulsion yeah and and you know there's no like there's no I mean look there's something about death that is essential to you know certain strands of rock and roll yeah and you are part of that yeah yeah for sure

you know and well I think too that

that

in the last bunch of years, facing a lot of, you know, I've lost a lot of people.

You know, we're at that age where it's like you just...

They start dropping, yeah.

Yeah, and in music, they drop earlier.

So they're dropping when I'm in my 50s here, in my early 50s, instead of growing old, you know,

and

going through lots of other things, which at the end of the day, it's like...

In the last five or six years, I've never grown so much so fast because growing is painful, right?

Well, yeah, and sometimes it's like it also moves quicker when you get older.

It's like you're growing, but like a lot of what's happening is

a certain amount of zero fuck is taking hold.

Yeah.

And a lot of stuff is falling to the wayside that used to sort of drive your life.

Yeah, for sure.

And it's a natural occurrence.

So that growing happens naturally, but also

time is running out.

Right.

Well, but this is a, this is one of the great things is when you say,

I've just no time to waste.

I must move forward.

I definitely can't sit here and

I definitely got to deal with this.

Sure.

Or you can be like, well, you know what?

I'm just going to sit here.

But then there lies the escapist trip that I love, too.

But like, if you've got your shit settled and you want to sit down,

go ahead.

Yeah.

In the zero fucks given aspect of being older.

But so how to, because like, I'll tell you, man, you know, watching that, that, that piece, the, in the catacombs of you doing those tunes and not being

familiar with the other versions of it, there's something about the ones you chose.

And also your sense of melody has gotten very sophisticated.

So

when you do that acoustically, it really kind of showcases not just the singing, but like, you know, the kind of like

elaborate melodies.

Yeah.

And then like, because of fucking, you know, dude, like

when Laura first sent it to me, I I watched a few minutes of it.

I'm like, all right, well, all right, so he's in the catacombs.

And then I'm like, dude, just watch the whole thing.

And I watch the whole thing.

I'm like, oh, my God.

This is so fucking,

it's hard to even explain the natural weight.

That starts to happen in that room.

Right.

But it's not heavy.

It just is.

But also,

the space itself, because of low ceilings, anything where you can't help but see the ceiling, you know, there's something kind of

it's not mystical, but you know, you're beneath.

Yeah.

You know, you're down.

Yeah.

You're down in it, but the sound was so good.

All the instruments sounded good.

But also just

there was an element that happened, even when you're cutting away the skulls and all that, that was not dark.

No, it's not.

The funny thing is,

well, there's a few things.

One,

it's a bit like an, it became a bit like improv

because,

you know, what's the rule of improv?

Yes, you say yes.

Yes, and yeah.

Right.

And

so we had, I think I had a little bit of a vision that it would be cathedral-like in there and very echoey.

Yeah.

I don't know why I have that all signed.

It's like dead.

Literally.

It is very dead inside the room.

It was like my old garage because of the low ceilings and because there's so much stuff in the

moisture, stone.

The floor is wet, but there's gravel on it.

And also, the bones are absorbing all that fucking noise, dude.

Absolutely.

And so

what happened is you descend down the stairwell.

Yeah.

That's like 132 spiral stairs.

It's one spiral staircase.

You just keep going left.

Yeah, yeah.

Or keep going right.

Excuse me.

And

you get down in there, and it became improv because it was when we did the walkthrough the day before.

I'd never been in there.

I'd just only have heard of it and dreamed of it and dreamed of it.

Oh, really?

Yeah, but because I'll back up a sec.

This 18 or 19 years ago, when I went to Paris, I had a day off.

I was like, let's go to the catacombs.

The line was like three and a half hours.

And so the impetus of this is like from an entitled, spoiled place, if I'm being honest.

I was like, how do I skip the fucking line?

Yeah, yeah.

How'd you?

It's funny.

How'd you get permission?

It took 18 years, really.

Really?

I mean, it's too bad the French don't have a word for bureaucracy.

Yeah, yeah.

You think it was bureaucracy?

I mean, it took forever.

It was like, don't ask me, ask this person.

And there was a guy, the French, to their credit, they have all this great stuff on telly.

It was like, they had a show called Album of the Week, and you simply play your album start to finish live.

Yeah.

And it's not on anymore, unfortunately, but was on for 40 years.

And

one of the main producers and directors of the show is this guy, Stéphane Sonnier, and he knew how to play Cupid to actually close the deal.

And it's better that it took this kind of time.

It's better that there were failed attempts, close calls that didn't happen.

Yeah.

You know, because when we got there this time,

we're sort of like emotionally ready to do this.

Sure.

So, like an improv class, we went down into the catacombs.

Yeah.

And with the director, we're like, okay, we could do this.

Yeah.

Yes, and we'll do this.

We can't do that over here, but yes, and we can go over here.

And we just improvised what you had.

They only gave you access to a certain part, right?

Yeah, I mean, we had pretty far-reaching access, sort of unprecedented access.

Yeah.

You know, and because we're the first people to legally play in there, right?

You know,

there's lots of tales of so you could really produce it.

Well, so, and, but you can't plug anything in, right?

So we had an electric piano, but we had to hook it up to a car battery.

Okay.

Right.

Yeah.

So you have a car battery with fucking, you know, clips.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it's like, okay, piano's working.

Right.

And so, um,

but what became really apparent is, is that, you know, it felt wonderful to, to,

you can't have plans and then implement them, go down there and implement them.

You are told what to do by the space.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You, you, we were not the stars of that show.

Yeah.

I'm glad you were able to watch it all the way through because it starts to do its work as you watch the space.

It really does.

It really does.

It's not MTV Unplugged.

No, it's not like anything.

Because, you know, because of the nature of

cordlessness and no electricity outside of a car battery, which doesn't matter, is that there's no way that space is not going to play a role.

And it's the whole thing.

It's the dominant thing.

Yeah.

And it's not haunted.

It's not scary.

And it's like, you know, living, breathing, you know, people making art in a space that is like probably the greatest monument to reverence for the dead.

You know, it's the largest

monument for the dead in the world, you know.

And yet, you know, you guys are all finding, you're negotiating your space with that space.

Yeah, and there are just so many weird discoveries.

Like, as you said, first of all, it is the dominant character in this.

It's yeah, but not in like we're we're trying to, it's not a spectacle.

No, it's all very intimate.

It's not possible to for it.

It doesn't allow for that to occur.

Right.

And

as you said, it's not sad or depressing.

No.

And it's not fun.

Like we're tossing the beach ball around.

No.

It's intense.

It's intense, but it's but it's very, you know,

it's deep and it's, you know, there's a poetry to it.

Yeah.

And it makes your songs different in meaning.

And the way you're playing them is that's the only time you're ever going to play them like that.

Yeah.

Well,

no way to recapture any of that.

And there's no need to.

Yeah.

As well, it's okay for things to simply be this right now and nothing more and nothing again.

Yeah.

And

it also...

even for picking the songs, we didn't pick sort of our hits.

It wasn't, that wasn't...

No.

And also even down to things like,

I like the acoustic guitar just fine, but we've heard it a million times.

So the strings and alternate instruments like glocks.

Strange feeling there.

Oh, yeah.

In that space?

Geez, man.

Those things

are ancient instruments.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, they are.

Not primitive, but old.

Yeah, but of that period as well.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And even down to like John, our drummer, was like, what should I play?

And I had been to the hardware store.

Yeah.

And I just handed him a chain.

I noticed that.

That was great.

And I was like, try this, you know?

Because like it didn't, like when I noticed that instrument, because there's one shot of it, it's not an instrument.

It's a wad of chains.

Yeah.

And he's using it percussively.

But like, it's not, you know, chains are associated with ghosts, but it didn't do that.

It gave it a sort of like...

ancient industrial

sort of thing, like, you know, medieval.

I hand him two pieces of wood and I'd nailed a, or I stapled a

sandpaper.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it was like, try this.

Yeah, yeah.

And then I went and got Chinese food, so I had him some chopsticks.

And I was like, try this.

Yeah.

You know,

things you find around

the area.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And

because this is one of those moments where it was like, not just less is more, but much less is much more.

Yeah.

And I think it helped to reveal words more.

Totally.

It helped to reveal melodies more.

How'd you you choose the songs?

We picked about eight things and it just became kind of like the first thing was a medley of two, an old song that you together.

And

it started to become more about family and things that were emotionally driven.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And things that were about, like the sutra up your future, it's about acceptance.

Yeah.

Like I'm going to sew this up and let it go.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so it felt and

those

choices ended up being right.

And also we didn't,

like you're hearing take two of three.

You're hearing take one of two.

Right.

We didn't.

It wasn't a whole week.

No, it was one day.

And it was, you know,

because I, again, had a serious health thing.

What was that one?

It was a complication sort of.

based in the same

struggles I'd had.

Yeah.

And

I had a tear internally.

Oh, God.

And so by by the time, four days earlier, I was in the hospital.

Two days before the catacombs,

we canceled our show in

Venice.

And I just said, you need to pull the bus over at the next hospital.

I can't do fucking hospitals.

Oh, my God.

And so I'm in the emergency room.

He could have died in the catacombs.

Well, but I will say this again.

It changed the show.

because I'd been working on this for so long and it was only two shows away.

And I started to get a fever.

It's the worst.

And it held at 102 for a couple of days.

Fuck.

And

I had this Italian travel agent who's amazing, her name is Sarah.

And I said, Will you pick me up outside the emergency room?

And so I took the gown off, got dressed and bailed.

And she took me to Milan.

I played, I don't remember the Milan show, but I played in Milan.

And then we flew to Paris.

And I was like, again, this was like, this is my chance to show who I really am.

you know, you don't get that opportunity, you know, to do this.

And

I had a cot, so I was laying down in between takes.

And I, and even, you know, the opening is laying on top of this altar, but I just crawled up there.

I was like, can I just lay down while you guys are setting up?

Yeah.

And the French director, he's like, don't move.

Yeah.

What if we start here?

You know, and it was like, laying, I could do that.

Yeah,

I can lay down.

Yeah, method acting.

I could lay down.

So these things just fell into place.

And what it did is it added this uh

it added this this uh

this intensity to the music to the moment it was like are you gonna do it or not you know it's very much what i would call a shut up and fuck me moment yeah sure and and uh

and

the other thing another interesting thing that we did is that uh we decided to 20-30 seconds before each take and after

no he would say action and then it it was just silence and everyone staring at each other and then it was like

go here we go and and that those looks exchanged that it was like

i'm doing this i'm yeah i'm doing this yeah

and this is the you know i i always love this about iggy too it's like i always feel like he's see seeing these moments and sort of stealing them out of the sky and making them your moment yeah this is what i'm here to do yeah i've lived my whole life up to this moment and here I am and I'm going to fucking do it.

And

being just feeling really alive and in that moment, I'm supposed to be here.

Yeah.

And you definitely, you feel it.

And you feel that

that is a singular thing, not unlike we were talking about before, that

that is the only thing of its

thing.

And this moment won't last.

That's right.

It's going to be gone.

Surrounded by skeletons.

Yeah, well, you know, the funny thing is that

the French love lunch, you know, they love lunch.

And so everyone wanted to break for lunch and they go up, you know, to go across the street and go up the fucking stairs and I just couldn't do it again.

And

so I said, I'm just going to lay down here in my cot, which was in front of this long, dark hallway with one light at the end.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I thought,

I'm so deep in the catacombs.

I'm like 350 meters, you know, horizontal and I'm however many meters down.

I was like, if the lights fucking go out, this is going to be the longest army man crawl I've ever done in my life.

No kidding.

But I also thought there's six million people here.

Jean-Paul Sartre is there and amongst others.

And I was like,

if there was ever a moment to be haunted by something, this go ahead and do me.

I'm ready.

I'm ready.

Yeah.

But I didn't,

I felt so comfortable

and so sort of like embraced by the moment.

Yeah.

And also like the fact that you weren't available to be haunting means you've arrived at yourself.

That I'm I'm supposed to be there.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah.

And so

I said, well, I'm just going to try to drift off to sleep.

And I slept like a baby for 40 minutes.

And then

I'm late in the dark.

And I hear these two French kids, these interned kids.

crunching on the gravel and they walked by me and they're speaking French and I just sat up and said, what time is it?

And they went

and was able to scare the shit out of

like heart attack.

That's nice.

At least there's a little comedy.

Yeah, but yeah, but even the way it ends, with you kind of like the

suggestion is that it's your point of view moving down the hallway, just singing to yourself.

Yeah, yeah, the whole thing's beautiful, and uh, it was really kind of moving.

And it's good to see you again, pal.

Good to see you too.

All right, man.

Thanks.

There you go.

Deep dude.

Intense.

Queens of the Stone Age alive in the catacombs is available at qotsa.com.

Hang out for a minute, folks.

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Well, I keep saying to you, I've been saying to you for many months, like, you know, going back to you talking about doing the Apple show and this and that, that I, you know, I've been like, this is the time where you need to start thinking about what makes you happy.

Right.

Right.

Like, what are you okay with?

Yeah.

And, you know, I like, what would you be okay with doing on a day where you weren't working?

Yeah.

What would make you happy about that?

And I think you've actually, you know, put some effort into thinking that.

Sure.

You know, there are things, there are places I've wanted to go.

There, you know, to sort of like if I can get my dread down just to the basic existential dread of mortality as opposed to every other fucking thing I have to do in my life, that might be relaxing.

And

like I've never been able to take a real vacation in any way without it being work or worrying about getting the podcast in during the week.

I mean, that might be interesting.

I mean, there's a whole world out there.

You know, I'm just going to have to get out from under.

whatever the core anxieties are and try to live my life a little bit.

That episode is available with a Full Marin subscription.

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