The Harmful Impact of Saying "We Do It for the Kids"

Hello everybody and welcome to this week's episode of You Can. I'm your host Sarah Jolly Jarvis and today Nova Coban is joining me and we're going to be talking around why you shouldn't make your business or make our businesses about our children, the impact that can have and how we can reframe it.
So first of all, I'm going to say lovely welcome to Nova. Thank you for coming on and tell us a little bit about yourself.
Hi Sarah, thank you for having me. So I'm Nova, I am a psychologist, a psychotherapist and a coach.
I'm also a business strategist and I sort of mix all of those parts together to help people when they are struggling to understand who they are, what they want and where they're going to go next. Nice and so we actually got talking about this didn't we we this is a topic that both of us were sort of chatting in the dms about on facebook over you know that positioning that labeling of being like i'm doing this for my children uh and the impact that that can have and the amount of pressure that can create tell us your thoughts on it so i have an issue with the idea that we are talking to our children about what it is that we do and about what it is and the reason behind why we do what we do.
And I think that sometimes, depending on how we frame that, that can actually have quite a legacy in terms of how they view themselves and their contribution to your stress, to what's going on in your life so explain that more we sometimes have points at which we will say well I am creating this business because I want to be able to spend more time with you I want your life to be better than my life was I want us to be able to go traveling I want this is my dream life but doing it for. Yeah.
So we've kind of got a bit of a contradiction in there already. And I just feel like sometimes that's quite a lot of pressure on children when we frame it as this is something that I'm doing for you, because that's not going to be the full story.
And we know, I'm sure you know, I'm sure everyone listening knows that there are times when you've said something meaning one thing and your child has interpreted it completely differently. That's not what you meant at all.
But they've taken that on board and it's really kind of changed the way that they view things and they haven't brought it up and you haven't been able to discuss it. And they've just sat with that for knows how long and one of those things can be this idea of well if you're doing this for me and then you are stressed and upset then maybe that's my fault yeah yeah and I think that's really easy with children isn't it is I remember a conversation with my daughter and it was meant to be in a positive way and I said to to her, oh, mummy always wanted two boys and then a girl as the youngest.
And I was like, but I'm really pleased you were the eldest because you're actually like my extra helper. And it's like me and her and the boys.
But she I remember her taking that on board. And then a few weeks later, she said to me, oh, but mummy, you didn't want it this way around.
You didn't want me um and and you're sad that I I was I was first and I was like no I'm not I'm really grateful it was mummy mummy thought that was a good idea but you know the universe had different ideas and actually it was very right but they do don't they they take that information away and then it can come out and you're like where did that come from yeah I had this really like experience when I was little that I overheard my mum and my dad talking in the car I was sat in the back seat and there was this song that came on the radio it was by Alison Moyet and I think that she was doing it for charity or was at a charity event anyway my dad said something to do with charity that sounded like he was not into charity, like charity was like a bad thing. I can't remember what the context was, but it sounded bad.
So I was kind of sneering at the idea of charity from then on because I'd completely misunderstood. And I remember saying to them at one point, like, oh yeah, charity.
and they were like what are you talking about and I was like well you know you don't really like charity do you and they were like I'm sorry what and I was completely misunderstood and that happens all the time all the time and I think I've noticed it's more with my daughter I think girls can be a bit more switched on and they're wanting to kind of get involved more and be that more mature and whereas stuff just sort of it passes by the boys without notice whereas she's the you know she's the one who's always listening into the conversations and things like that and she's the one who's much more likely to pick up the those sort of like and take it wrong way but all those kind of little hints at stuff and she would piece it together she does piece it together very well like a little detective and you'll be talking cryptic and before you know it she's she's pieces all together and she's actually pretty much on the right lines um and you're like how did you manage that and I think that's the thing is is you know at the end of the day we are role models and that was one of my things with having my own business which was you know something that I've never to her. But I set up my business so I could have the flexibility to be around my family.
She was the catalyst for that as the eldest. And also looking at it from a role model point of view that I remember a relative saying to me, so you are going to give up work, aren't you? Now you're going to be having kids.
And I was like you for real because I've you know I've worked towards this I've been to university I've invested so much in myself you think that I'm just going to stop and you know just be a parent but you know to to be that stay-at-home parent was not is not where my strengths are um it was I found that quite difficult it wasn't mentally stimulating for me particularly at the baby phase they don't do a lot do they and so you know you have to keep you have to be aware about sustaining life but that it does not like I remember Martin used to come home from work and he'd be like telling me stuff and he'd be like oh you don't really want to hear this do you and I'm like please please keep telling me this stuff because it's actually exercising my brain and so you know then getting into that I could have taken a job which gave me flexibility which didn't challenge me the way that this does or doesn't progress me but that was my choice and that's the thing is even wanting to be a role model for. She didn't say to me, hey, I need a role model and you need to step up, love.
It's a decision that we've taken on to provide that for them. Yes.
And that's that's the whole point. Right.
It's just that honesty around it so that you're not hiding the idea that I want to do that. I want to work.
This excitesites me and then I'm a better person because I'm being stimulated I'm growing and all of those things are important to me rather than the flip way of doing that which is like yeah you sort of buy into that guilt that mum guilt thing that we all get and you sort of try and kind of bypass it, yes, that's because, you know, I want to be a good mum. It's like, yes, you want to be a good mum, but you want to be a good mum by ensuring that you feel good.
And that's okay. But we don't own that part of it.
No, and that's our version. That's the thing.
All of this is about our version of being a good parent. And it's like you want to be playing out your story and then you want to allow your children to play out their own stories.
Whereas I speak to people quite regularly who are like, well, you know, I kind of did what I felt was expected of me. And I think that then is, you know, they're thinking, oh, well, my parents will be disappointed if.
And I've had people who have gone into professions because that's what their parents expected them to do and because that's what they felt would be good for them but then you end up out of alignment because you're not actually living to your own values to what you want to be doing. Yes and that leads to a whole load of problems and at least a lot of resentment as well,

because then you're resenting the people who said this is the path you should go down.

And nine times out of 10, not all the time, but nine times out of 10, if you were to turn around to your parents and say,

I'm deeply unhappy, this is not what I want to do. They'd be like, perfect.

Go and do what it is that you want to do. I don't want you to be unhappy.
And I think that thing is is whenever you speak to people they're always like I just want them to be happy you know that is people's measure is I want them to be happy and it's like so it's understanding you can't make them happy you know they have to find that happiness for themselves and you're allowing them and supporting them to do that isn't it yes yeah And it's too easy I think to kind of bypass your own happiness because you've placed other people's needs before your own like that's the kind of classic thing that we do isn't it it's like we agree that our needs are not important and we agree that we will live our life according to someone else's plan even though if you actually spoke to them and asked them they wouldn't want that that's not what they would want but it serves us in some way because it allows us to have someone to blame if you like when things don't go down like well I never wanted to do this anyway like you were the one who thought that this would be good for me I never thought that and we're so bad at feeling like it's okay to actually take responsibility for our own choices because we've been led by other people's choices our whole lives like when we're at school you do as you're told when you're going to the workplace you stick to the rules like we're governed by laws all we are set up to please other people in everything that we do. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
And from the flip side, you know, when I was thinking around this subject, you've got the fact that we say we're doing stuff because of our children, but then actually you've also got the flip side of that where we say, oh, I can't do that. You know, I'm restricted.
I am stuck where I am because I have children. Oh, if I didn't have children, my life would look like this.
And I think, you know, we all know that we are naturally programmed to keep ourselves safe. Even if we're not happy, it's like the current situation that I'm in is nice and safe.
I haven't died in this situation. So we'll just carry on with it.
Whereas in reality, you know, you have those aspirations. It's not, is it really really and I think this is the key thing with this is it's digging deep however you look at it it's actually pulling yourself up on it isn't it and saying wait a minute is this the truth is this is this true or is this what I'm telling myself yeah yeah and I think there's so many layers to that that often it's really hard to get to the root of what you really feel because having children is automatically an additional thing that you need to take into account.
And your life does change and need to change as a result of that. But that's something that hopefully you wanted.
And so that also is a choice that you take into account so rather than I suppose I look at it that rather than when I'm saying oh I can't do that because of the children that it's an excuse it's like I choose to not do this so that I can be with them and around them and I'm happy with that choice rather than like oh you know I really want to do that but you know I've got children now so that can't happen I'm like I want that to happen I want to be with them for that time yeah and also you have got the fact that you know you're saying oh I can't do that but it's like who's saying you can't do that whereas you know actually when you start to look at it some people do go away you know they are away there I think it's a bit of a minefield because I think that there are definitely points at which for example I've made decisions about something that I'm not going to do because I'm like that's not fair to take that time away from them um that's going to be hard on them rather than it's going to be hard on me. Like I would probably have a lovely time.
It would be really enjoyable. You'd at least have a lie-in.
I'd have a leisurely breakfast. It would be great.
But I know that that involves pressure on other people who would be covering that time for me, my husband, i.e., which restricts him and what he wants to do. So that kind of all needs to be evened out for me.
That's, you know, I like to be kind of evened out. But I think there's definitely points at which I have used it as an excuse as well.
So I've been thinking to myself, no, I can't, I can't go and up level my client base at the moment, because that would involve kind of traveling to London more. And, you know, that's not fair.
And when I've looked at it, those things aren't true. That's just me being scared, and using it as an excuse.
So that definitely comes into play. And I you've got to be really self-aware to kind of dig through and discover is this is this about them or is it about you and how do you do that is that is that a thing that you've built into the way you self reflect and things like that or do you have people who you know you've got friends who really call it out for what it is? How do you manage that? For me, it's sort of just become a natural habit, I suppose.
So I'll just, if I have an inkling, the first thing I guess is that I have an inkling that it's not entirely true. Like, there will be something that doesn't feel quite aligned, or quite right.
and I'll just feel a bit off about whatever I've just said or whatever I've just thought or decided and if that's my little signal that I need to dig a little bit deeper and it might be that I'm right and there's just some other stuff in the way and it's still okay for the decision that I've made but more often than not if I'm I'm feeling a little bit like, it doesn't feel quite true, then I'll just do a kind of series of questions with myself. So it'll be like, is that actually true? And when is that going to be true? And when is that not going to be true? So I'll look at, okay, so that is true if these things are not in place.
So that's true that I don't want to go away for the weekend if it means that my husband can't do it and then I have to get someone in to look after her. That's not okay.
But it is okay if all of these things are met. And then it feels better to do it because I've looked at what it is that's actually disturbing me or feeling uncomfortable.
And then maybe I can address it, or maybe I can't, but that will help me kind of decide whether it's me, the circumstances, or I actually agree with the decision that I've already made. I really like the question on when is that not going to be true because I think that is sometimes okay I'll allow this for now that's you know that's the kind of thought process at the moment but is this you know if this isn't ever going to change then you know what's going on and and how important is this I think it puts it it gives it a perspective doesn't it because I think sometimes you know you have different you have so many different stages with children but there are so many different stages and there are stages at which they know they want to be around you in the summer holiday stages where they're gonna be like they'd rather do anything but be around you and so you know it's understanding I'm I'm making the most of now and you know I've done that I've done that with with speaking things and things like that where like I've moved to Devon I mean I'm going to have to travel for quite some time to get anywhere into civilization I mean it's an hour to the nearest motorway and so you know you're then very much like well I'm kind of saying that I'm not going to do that many in-person things um and it's like that's okay I'm all right with that because actually there is structure in place um you know you can do things like this we don't have to necessarily meet face to face and it's like actually when the time comes I can be away more and so then you know I can then refocus on that but at the moment you know that that's on pause apart from you know if it was something really significant and I think that's where it makes sense it'd be very easy to me like oh that's you know that's just never going to happen I can't possibly ever leave them um when actually in reality there's going to come a time when they're possibly going to welcome the house being a bit quieter and mum not being around um but it's you know it's working out where you're at with that yeah absolutely and I think you know there are definitely times when it is entirely true that things are much more difficult.

You know, so I'm not a single mum now, but with my son, I was a single mum for a long time.

And there were actual real restrictions on that. Like I didn't have the childcare available.

I didn't have the scope to go away for a weekend or anything like that.

So there are definitely points at which those

things that other people might say oh that's just an excuse it's not that is the reality

people living with so I think that it's not to when this conversation is obviously not to kind

of dismiss the fact that there are restrictions that people experience and they need to be

navigated and sometimes they can't be navigated but like you said I think there are times at which

I'll see you next time. that people experience and they need to be navigated and sometimes they can't be navigated but like you said I think there are times at which our children will need us less you know I've got a nearly 20 year old and a five year old so I've kind of done yeah and and then uh doing it again so um and actually this time around, my priority is being able to spend as much time with her as possible because I know it's my last chance and I know I'm really lucky to have done it again after thinking that I wouldn't have another child.
So I'm really enjoying it and that is my priority. Whereas with Noah, it was a little bit different because I loved being around him and he was always a priority in terms of spending time with him but equally I was a single mum I had to do other things to put money in and sometimes that wouldn't be nicely fitted into nine to five or nine to three so those things had to beled.
So yeah, a lot of it is kind of age of children, circumstances, support systems that you've got in place, all of those things, as well as your own mindset. And I think the key thing is, is when you think around like, yeah, okay, what is driving this? Is it my mindset? Is it actually my priorities? Because I've seen a lot recently of people calling people out on social media with, you know, actually, your business isn't your priority.
And, you know, that's why I saw one yesterday where you say you're too busy, but actually, you're just not prioritizing it. Like that was a bad thing.
And I'm like, actually, I don't see whether people are prioritizing it, or whether people aren't prioritizing it. That is equally OK.
I think the key thing is, is to know and to understand, actually, this isn't my priority right now. And there's nothing wrong with it.
You know, you can't. Yes, you can.
And I put out a post a few weeks ago, me and Isaac were baking. We did quite a lot of baking on a Friday.
And, you know, I love it it and Friday is my non-negotiable day off and you know I could work people have said to me well if you worked you know another day then you could serve more clients you could do more outreach you could make more money and it's like but I'm choosing and I know that I am consciously choosing to exchange that day for spending time with him and even if somebody said to me you know what you could you could make a few million on that day at this moment in my life I really don't care because I'm never going to get that time back and and that's the thing is is you know I unlike you when you did that and then you had a nice break and you know I've stacked my've stacked my children up. They're like a little production line of children.
And so that is the only time other than when we have, we do designated mummy and daddy days. But other than that time, that's the only time I get to spend with him just one on one.
And he's always had somebody else around because he's the youngest of three. And so being able to spend that time, it means so much to me.
That's I had them but I know the choice I'm making and I never say to him by the way you know money could be making you know a few grand right now these cookies better be good um because that's that's not the point um but it's that conscious decision I've made that decision and that's okay and and I think I would love I would love to see people calling each other out less I would really like to see people supporting each other's differences and decisions um but that's quite sad that actually we're not seeing that at the moment I couldn't agree more I think I find it really triggering I guess to see posts that are celebrating business over and above family to an extent where as you said they're almost demonizing people who are not dedicating enough time and energy and focus on their business and are instead choosing to have more of a balance with their family life and the other things that they enjoy. And sort of doing this kind of like, you're not driven enough, you're not focused enough, you're not committed enough.
Committed to what though? Because what I'm committed to is having a good balance in my life. And that's the thing that I want to commit to, because that is everything to me.
Like if I'm off balance, then everything goes out the window. So that has to be a priority.
Maybe for some other people, the priority is building a business empire. And that's fine.
But don't pretend that building the business empire is not having an effect on other areas of your life, or the other areas of your life are not being sacrificed in order to win that or to do that like you are not making a balanced decision with that and that's fine that is absolutely fine but then what I object to is the idea that you're saying that and then the same breath almost making everyone else feel like they're just a bit crap for not being as dedicated as something that you're dedicated to I totally agree and also what what has upset me like even the post I saw yesterday which was you know like the reason why it's just because you're not you're not focused enough you know you're not prioritizing it it was women calling women out um and I've seen that quite often now is I'm doing this you know you're kind of letting the side down not doing it too and it was interesting because I had my device on a couple of episodes ago on episode five and she was saying around female archetypes and why women we need to club together and we should support each other and this podcast is designed for women to support women and to inspire women and yet we can be our

own biggest biggest critics and I think that's where it it does seem really disappointing and that's where I do feel very passionate and triggered that you know this is happening and that we can't appreciate that balance which is always going on and you know sometimes we can get it right sometimes we can get it wrong and it's like but but why why we need to be criticizing each other's balance and our own actions like we should be the ones who are in a position where we can really empathize with the the constant juggling of family demands with business demands and and also business aspirations with family aspirations you know. You know, it's a constant juggle and people can get it wrong, but surely we can just be nice about it.
And it's actually if that super talented person chooses for a period of time to not prioritize their talents within their business role and focus on their talents as a parent or focus on improving their talents as a parent um you know are we the ones to pass judgment on that and is it needed like you know we've all got freedom to speak but do we have to you know could we just leave them to it i know and i and i think that there's always sort of like this piling in of, I agree with your opinion, because that alleviates my own guilt. So if somebody says something that celebrates something that you've been feeling a little bit uncomfortable with, then you'd be like, oh, thank goodness, somebody who's kind of celebrating this thing that I'm feeling a little bit awkward, brilliant.
Now I can myself with that view and be like well they are doing it and they're not spending all their time worrying about balance so I don't need to either and instead of turning inwards and deciding for ourselves what balance looks like what we want all of those kind of things what our family life looks like for us we're kind of jumping on the

thing that makes us feel the best about ourselves and going thank god thank god somebody said it i can now align myself with that viewpoint and again that's natural and normal you know i think we're doing that here even we're kind of expressing the viewpoint that we share um and we're aligning with it um but I feel like we're not doing that to alleviate any guilt we are doing that to kind of celebrate that we have decided that consciously decided that rather than gone out looking for an excuse to carry on doing what we're doing and feeling better about it and that's the thing is is like guilt is a message emotions are messages aren't they and it's like that that is a message that something doesn't feel right you possibly feel out of alignment and so that is a really good message to as you say look inwards and I think it's it gets increasingly hard and gosh we could go on and it's a whole new subject in itself but you know the the external validation and information we now get and the amount of noise around us, it can make it very, very difficult to listen and to listen with conviction to that inner voice, because there is constant, it's a constant barrage of information and opinions and people's perspectives. And it's very easy for that inner voice to get lost.
Yeah, 100%. I cannot count the number of times that i've just felt overwhelmed with the social media stuff that is kind of bombarded into my brain every you know every time i'm there and how influential that can be on my mood on my thoughts on the way that i'm approaching my life and I I need and I know that that's having an

effect I think we all know that it's having an effect but what we struggle with is then discerning

our own thoughts from those that we've kind of pulled in and absorbed from other people

yeah definitely I think especially when you know we are navigating a very different

style of life to what our our parents were and so you don't have that reference point and so you're

Thank you. Especially when, you know, we are navigating a very different style of life to what our parents were.
And so you don't have that reference point. And so you are regularly searching for.
I remember speaking to one of my friends who said, I don't even know how to go about balancing my career with my family because my mum just gave up work and she stayed at home. And she was like, I know I don't want to do that, but I don don't know what anything else looks like and I think that's where again female role models having those points of reference that you feel aligned with are so so important and to feel safe in our own decisions yeah and and also I think if you're in a marriage or a partnership it has to be right for both of you as well because whatever decision one of you is making if you've got children that is having an effect on the other person as well so it's not the case in my view that you can just go right well this is how I want my life to look so you're over here doing this role now because I've just I've just allocated it for you yeah and that's the thing it's a partnership isn't it yeah yeah and that is going to be a constant struggle and that's going to change as well you know my husband and I we have very different times of the year when we're busy which is good because then we're not both really busy at the same time but um and so that's worked out quite well but there are definitely times where you know we'll be arguing because both of us have things that we need to get done and want to do and both of us feel that difficulty around okay so how are we going to navigate all of that and it really takes a lot of energy to sort of step back sometimes and be like this is not getting us anywhere like we just need to kind of we need to be grown up yeah exactly and that's hard when you're kind of when you're under pressure and then you're being interrupted by a little person or you're you know you're trying to not you're just trying to have a stern conversation rather than an argument life is just happening around you you know all of those things are happening at the same time and it's and it's hard but it has to be like right for everybody who's in your family unit you can't just be about this is my dream and on if I go following it and you guys can come along if you want yeah that is true yeah that you know you are a family unit it isn't it is it isn't you and your sidekicks is it um and so yeah you know and that's the thing is is you know you do need to and every family is so so different it's it's figuring out what works for you and and that's the key thing and and feeling safe to to do you um without having to take on board those kind of the negative side that that some people choose to to do but no but it's been so so lovely to speak to you and where can people find out more about you where do you mostly hang out I mostly hang out on Facebook I try and dabble in the others but I really don't very often or my website just novacobbin.com brilliant well that's been lovely to speak to you thank you much for your time.
So that's been great guys to speak to Nova and I look forward to speaking to you all

again next week. Bye for now.