Shaquille O'Neal

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Speaker 1 Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Shepard, and I'm joined by the miniature mouse from Duluth.

Speaker 2 Hi.

Speaker 1 We're in a foreign location. That's right.
And I want to thank, from the bottom of my heart, Dr. Mike.
He's not only gorgeous, he's generous,

Speaker 1 He's kind, he's smart, and this is his studio.

Speaker 2 He's got it.

Speaker 1 And we needed a place to record in New York, and he was so gracious in offering us this.

Speaker 2 So thank you. And it's a beautiful studio.

Speaker 1 It's a beautiful studio.

Speaker 1 Very, very nice. Well appointed.
I had a nice espresso while we interviewed our guest. And our guest, speaking of which, is our biggest guest of all time.
That's right. At seven foot one.

Speaker 2 That's right.

Speaker 1 Shaquille O'Neal. Oh my God.
Shaquille O'Neal. Four-time NBA champion, first-round draft pick,

Speaker 1 multiple MVP, one of only three or four players that ever got MVP in the season, the playoffs, and the all-star game.

Speaker 2 Just one of the best to do it.

Speaker 1 He is the most dominant.

Speaker 1 And he has,

Speaker 1 he's an investor in this really kind of incredible new venture called Campus,

Speaker 1 which gets folks who traditionally would not have gone to college, makes it incredibly easy for them, helps them get funding. It's awesome.
And that's what we're here to talk about.

Speaker 1 And if you would like to apply for one of the many Shack scholarships that are being given out, go to shackscholars.campus.edu. That's shackscholars.campus.edu.

Speaker 1 Please enjoy the most effervescent NBA player of all time, Shaquille O'Neal.

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Speaker 1 You look like a lawyer. Me? Hey, you look very, very strange.

Speaker 2 I take that as a compliment.

Speaker 1 She's extremely intelligent.

Speaker 2 I do like to argue as well, so I could have been a lawyer.

Speaker 1 Very argumentative.

Speaker 1 And what do you argue about?

Speaker 2 We argue about anything. You can throw anything at us and we'll probably have a different opinion.

Speaker 1 Yes, is the sky blue? Who knows?

Speaker 2 How can we possibly know?

Speaker 1 Okay, you wouldn't remember meeting me. First of all, you used to live across the street from Tom Arnold.
I did. And I used to go over to his house.

Speaker 1 And I think you had just gotten one of those like three-wheeler spider type fucking motorcycle deals. That was you.
That was me, baby. And then that's not the good one.

Speaker 1 The good one was we were walking to the village brew in Westwood to a movie premiere. And I'm behind you on a sidewalk.
And I've only met you once in Tom Arnold's driveway. And this is a huge swing.

Speaker 1 You're in front of me. And I say to you, Hey, I'm the biggest person at these things.
You got to go home or something, making a joke. And you turned around.
And at that time, time, you recognized me.

Speaker 1 And you picked me up like a little tiny baby, like under my armpits, and you lifted me off the ground. I almost said we.
I was like, oh my God, I haven't felt like this in 30 years. I'm a baby.

Speaker 2 That's so fun. You never get to feel like a baby.

Speaker 1 I re-watched.

Speaker 1 The dock. I've been trying to get you for like three years because the Shack Doc on HBO is one of my favorites I've ever seen.
You've been trying to get me how long? It's called DM.

Speaker 1 Fuck, I didn't even think to DM. DM.
You're reading the DMs. I would have got to you.
I do. Fuck, okay.

Speaker 2 Yeah, we've tried all the other routes.

Speaker 1 Good tip. No.
Yeah, so I've just been wanting to do this for three years. I thought that turned out so good.
Did you like that? I never watched it. Tell me why.
Never watch myself. Ever?

Speaker 1 Accidentally, I may see myself, but I don't shoot something and then let me see it. Yeah.
Edit it this way. Never been that person.
You know, when you're...

Speaker 1 taught by an army drill sergeant never to rest on your laurels never to be satisfied Once I finish a project, I'm on to the next because I know that one day projects may not be there.

Speaker 1 So I'm happy to just keep it moving. I mean, I always say to myself, it's motivational, I'm 53.
In seven summers, will I still be shooting 20, 30 commercials in a row? Who knows?

Speaker 1 So while I have this opportunity to continue to work, I just like working because one day, and you know, it happens to all of us, we get older, one day they may say, you know what, you're too old.

Speaker 1 We want to move younger and may have to to retire, retire. So I just like working.

Speaker 2 What scares you about retiring?

Speaker 1 What I want to say I'm scared is just to live a wonderful life, but seven summers, I'll be 60. I just can remember 18, 20, 20.

Speaker 1 And you start playing the game right like, I got to do something on that summer. So if I wait to 75 to have my summer and I can't do anything, I can't go on a jet ski or something.
Exactly.

Speaker 1 So I'm just trying to, I was looking a little bit like Charles Barkley.

Speaker 1 So I'm starting to really take the anti-aging thing seriously, really starting starting to get in shape. I see a 4.8 pack.
So I'm going to try to get up to an eight pack by the end of the summer.

Speaker 1 I usually work and then take the summer off and just do whatever. But, you know, I have to change my routine.
Trying to get my championship mental focus back.

Speaker 1 I was really out of shape and I started having some health problems, but now I'm starting to get back on track.

Speaker 1 I'm shocked you didn't watch the doc, though, because if I were you, I would have watched it because you were pretty honest, not pretty, you were really, really honest and open.

Speaker 1 And definitely we got some stuff from you that we hadn't seen prior to that. And I think I would have been like, I need to see how that turned out.
I was pretty vulnerable in that.

Speaker 1 I was pretty honest. How did that look? I mean, I've always tried to be honest with people.
People always ask me, you endorse so many products. It's not that I endorse so many products.

Speaker 1 I endorse products that I believe in. If I don't believe in a product, I can't get in front of the camera and sell it to you.
It's unethical and it's just not right.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you were offered Weedies, right? Yes. And you're like, I never fucked with Weedies.
I'm never going to fuck with Weedies.

Speaker 1 I'm a Frosted Flakes guy.

Speaker 1 Frosted Flakes and then Fruit Loops.

Speaker 1 We intersected at Fruity Pebbles. That's my indulgence.
That's right.

Speaker 1 One of the things I was blown away with, I think, because I have currently a 10 and a 12-year-old little girls. And at 10, you were six feet tall.
So I'm picturing Delta at six feet tall.

Speaker 1 And at 12, you were 6'6.

Speaker 1 And I guess my question is, were they ever worried you had acromegaly, like Andre the Giant? Were they ever worried that there was something going on?

Speaker 1 I never heard that word, but I went to the doctor and the doctor said I had Osgood Schlotters. That's the painful thing with your legs, right?

Speaker 1 I was like, oh my God, being a young kid, you don't want to hear you have also been like, I'm German. Yeah.
Was that word?

Speaker 1 So he said I have Osgood Schlauter.

Speaker 1 I didn't ask questions. I was like, man, my knee's going to hurt like this forever.
And then one day, I just kept playing. I just grew up and I haven't had knee problems since.

Speaker 1 But my great-grandfather, who I met before he passed away, was 7-4.

Speaker 1 wow seven four seven four he lived in Dublin Georgia we came back from Germany and my mother tells me I was always not really ashamed about being tall because I was the only tall person in my school she's like you come from great stock and when I seen this man Dublin Georgia on his farm he had an ox he had a plow and when he took his shirt off he looked like a he-man doll really muscles everywhere my mom was like that's how you're gonna look when you're older yeah yeah and i didn't have glass that time but if i did i'd have been like

Speaker 1 sign me up. Chocolate man, ball headed such myself.
And he took his shirt off. I'm talking about 14 pack.
It was incredible. My mom's like, that's how you're going to look.

Speaker 1 And once I seen him, I was like, okay.

Speaker 2 Did you get made fun of for being tall?

Speaker 1 No, I had to convert into bullyism. Oh, you did? Bullyism and sillyism.
When you get there, people talk about you. So I had to make them like me by being silly.

Speaker 1 And the ones that didn't like my jokes, three o'clock. A bus driver asked your mom if you were retarded? Yes, and she punched him in the face.
Yeah, so that kind of stuff was happening, right?

Speaker 1 Any girls like you in elementary school? No, right? Because you're a fucking man. Yeah, exactly.
You're one of the teachers.

Speaker 1 I couldn't resist attention from women. My story is I was that big lug in elementary.
All my buddies had cute girlfriends, and I just wanted that so bad.

Speaker 1 So then when the switch finally flipped in junior high, where girls were starting to go, like, oh, yeah, okay, I'm into this. I just couldn't resist.
I loved that approval from girls.

Speaker 1 I actually thought about starting a how to date book. Uh-huh.
Because for people like us, it's two stories. It's the easy side, meet them, la la la, and then there's a regular side.

Speaker 1 I started on this side. Never had to go on dates, never had to do anything.
So it was more of that. So now when you're used to that and then you transition back, it's very tough.

Speaker 1 I was reading the five love languages. And I didn't realize that sitting with your wife watching TV is not spending quality time with her.
I never knew that. Well, hold on.

Speaker 1 Then I'm fucked because that's funny.

Speaker 2 No, I know what you mean, though. That's just being next to somebody.

Speaker 1 I never knew these things. Like, I was never taught because, like you said, nobody wanted us.
Yes. And then when I hit that cover of Sports Illustrated, everything changes.
Yeah, I'm coming with you.

Speaker 1 For real? How are you going to not say yes to that? Exactly. If you want it so bad.
It's the same. I wanted the cool BMX bike.
Couldn't get it. I wanted the cool big wheel.
You wanted a mongoose?

Speaker 1 I wanted a mongoose or a super goose or the hutch, any of the shit the other guys have. I have a confession.
Tell me. Deion Wallace, I stole your mongoose in Germany that one time.
Oh, no.

Speaker 1 That was you.

Speaker 2 I'm glad you got that off your chest.

Speaker 1 Statue of limitations on the stolen bike are probably up. Yeah, I wanted all that stuff so bad.
So then when I could get it, I just acted like an idiot because it was like stored up. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Wait, we got to stop on love language as well.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I want to know yours. Can I predict yours? Yes.
I think it's words of affirmation. You're really good.
That's the first one. Yeah.
Same. Really good.
I need you to tell me

Speaker 1 you love me. Thank you.
That's all. And which one's hard for you to meet in a partner? You know their love language is this.
I can meet them all. Acts of service.
I can do all that, of course.

Speaker 1 No, let me just say, acts of service isn't writing a check. Acts of service is like mopping the floor.
You can do that. Now I can do that.
That's the hardest for me. 10 years ago, I couldn't do that.

Speaker 1 We had a sex expert on, a sexologist recently. And you want to hear the worst part, the things that gets women horniest, wives, it's not foreplay.
It's called chore play.

Speaker 1 Chore play, chore play. They want to see you like clean and

Speaker 1 do the laundry and like take shit off their plate. I get it, chore play.

Speaker 2 It's not seeing them do it, it's not like it's a turn on to watch, it's just like, oh, this was taken care of. Now I don't have to take care of it.
That's hot.

Speaker 1 We had her on. I'm like, oh, this is great.
She's going to tell me, like, I got to rub her feet and then I'll be in business. She said, no, you got to like, you

Speaker 1 do the dishes.

Speaker 1 What if you're an athlete? Scoreplay. Oh, yeah.
Well, look, then being able to...

Speaker 1 Yes. Scoreplay.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you have a little bit of a leg up there.

Speaker 1 I think about how fragile life is when I was watching that doc.

Speaker 1 Again, you got one of these situations where you're either good time Charlie, good times, your Sanford and son, all the things that made you love being goofy and comedic.

Speaker 1 And then you got a side that's like, don't fuck with me. It's on.
And you beat a kid up and he had a seizure. And I think about, man, life's fragile like that.
Very fragile.

Speaker 1 It's definitely protected by the man upstairs. Yeah, can you remember the moment of kind of panic of, oh, wow, this just got serious?

Speaker 1 You know, a lot of times when you're, and I was a medium-level Jude of a non-delinquent, not high. Probably stole a car, steal candy bars, fights, all that on teenage stuff.

Speaker 1 It didn't hit me until after that, you could have went to jail. And being 6'5 ⁇ , 6'7, you probably would have been one of those cases.
Oh, we have to try you like an adult. You're black.
Yes.

Speaker 1 You're huge. And I'm living in Fort Stewart, Hinesville, Georgia.
Yeah, exactly. No, you're getting tried as an adult at as 12.
Exactly.

Speaker 1 So it changed me because now you have to tame the bully damn near turn it off. He's still there when necessary.
It's like a superhero. I'm not going to walk around Superman all day.

Speaker 1 I'm going to be Clark Kim, but when there's a problem, I'll

Speaker 1 and then come back to normal. And then my mother sat me down.
My father was very upset. Definitely got in trouble.

Speaker 1 had to do chores around the base. He's like, you're going to go to every house and take out the garbage and cut every grass.
But my mom was like, baby, you're special. You're strong.

Speaker 1 You're going to hurt somebody. Don't ever do that again.
And when you're raised by a drill sergeant, you're programmed not to make the same mistake twice.

Speaker 1 I had a bad run of being a bully in elementary school. I was dyslexic, so I was dumb as fuck.
Me too.

Speaker 1 But then compounding that was I had a brother that was five years older than me that beat my ass every day. Right.
And then I had crazy stepdads in the mix.

Speaker 1 So I have to admit, selfishly, when I got to school and I had some power. Oh, didn't it feel good? Yeah.
It felt good going to school and everybody fearing you.

Speaker 1 When you're leaving a house where you're kind of scared sometimes yes because you speak so positively about phil

Speaker 1 your dad and for people who don't know i'm sure everyone knows but not your biological dad but been raising you since you were two

Speaker 1 great dad on all accounts but also ruled with a heavy hand i wonder as positive as all that was do you think Going to school and feeling like being him in the scenario was a bit of a relief?

Speaker 1 Now that I look at it, it definitely was a release.

Speaker 1 Like you said, when you don't have control in one place, you can have control in another place. It's irresistible.
It feels great. Rule with a seriously heavy hand.
But all I can say is thank you.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it seems like you were able to admire it.

Speaker 1 I do. A lot of people wouldn't be able to handle it, but I've never been one of those ones.
I'm glad he did it because even as a medium juvenile delinquent, he used to say stuff that's true today.

Speaker 1 You looking at that ugly ass car, you're going to have 50 cars. You want to buy your mama's house, a 2,000 square foot house.
If you listen to me, your house is going to be 100,000 square feet.

Speaker 1 You're going to be living in Beverly Hill with, like, he used to tell me stuff that I wouldn't even dream. And when it happened, I was like, you know what? It worked.

Speaker 1 The subtext of that is, I really believe in you, and you need to believe in you as much as I believe in you. Yes.

Speaker 1 But I do wonder for you to admit it might have been too hard at times would almost appear as weakness. And if that's in the way at all.
I could say it now, would never say it then.

Speaker 1 Weakness has also made me who I am because when you, oh, he's never going to win a championship, pisses me off. It taught me how how to take that criticism and turn it into motivation.

Speaker 1 I love being criticized because now I'm able to look at the criticism and see if there's some truth in it and work on it. I heard you make a great point on Pivot.
You were awesome on that.

Speaker 1 That whole show is great. It is.
More specifically, you don't mind criticism from a peer or someone above you. And I think that's really relevant.
Yes, it is.

Speaker 1 You seem to have a really healthy attitude about anyone who doesn't know what the hell you've been through or done the thing you've done and they're chirping online.

Speaker 1 Why on earth would you pay that any attention? At all. I work a lot in law enforcement.
And when the term cyberbullying came up, I didn't understand it. It's simple.

Speaker 1 Like if he's bullying you, you don't know him. Why don't you block him?

Speaker 2 Right. You don't have to engage.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I block people every day.
It's a phenomenon. And I enjoy going into schools, talking to children about that.
But it took a nuclear physicist to teach me that. So I used to read everything.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, it's irresistible. So when I talked to this nuclear physicist, he started laughing.

Speaker 1 he said who is that guy i don't know he said so why do you care what did jerry west say jerry west loves me all right then what did kareem say kareem's a little hard okay well you listen to people like that yeah and then he made me watch this movie i don't know if you saw it the fan with robert de niro and wesley snipes yes so remember when robert deranged baseball fan yes and he kidnaps him he said i don't want to hurt you he says how do you hit all those home runs and all the rbis and wesley said i don't care and once i saw that changed my life my career took off whoa really yeah So, of course, I listed my family and people that are equal and people that are above.

Speaker 1 Okay, let's go back to Lucille, your mom. Oh, I love your mom.
Your mom,

Speaker 1 the fucking greatest. Thank you.
When I didn't believe in myself, I would just throw things out and she would believe it. And then one day,

Speaker 1 take me to an AAU game. We ride into this neighborhood and she stops and she looks at this house.

Speaker 1 Not the houses that we live in, but it was a nice house because she never had a proper house that was just hers, you know, grew up brothers and sisters, and we always brothers, sisters, and cousins.

Speaker 1 It was in Alamo Heights, Texas. That's where all the rich people live in San Antonio.
And she was looking at it, and I was like, you know what?

Speaker 1 I'm going to get you a house. So once I put something that's set in stone, you're going to have to kill me to break it.
And I've seen this lady wake up every day, cook a hell of a breakfast.

Speaker 1 iron our clothes, iron her clothes, go to work, come home, cook a hell hell of a dinner, wear the same pants on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, just changed up the shirts and had one outfit for company parties and all that, but never complained.

Speaker 1 So from 2 to 12, juvenile delinquent, and then one day I'm watching TV and John Concac signs for 15 for three, $5 million a year.

Speaker 1 So my father has some tickets and we go watch this guy play and I'm like, He's good, but I'm better. So I'm like, if he's making five million a year, I can make four.

Speaker 1 I wasn't putting myself above them, like I could make four, but I said, I'm going to buy this lady house. And that was my whole motivation.
That's been my whole motivation forever.

Speaker 2 You know, just to tell you. And how did it feel when you did it?

Speaker 1 It felt great because I had to trick them into buying a house because they were really good parents. They actually raised me through a lot of horror stories.

Speaker 1 You know, we got all this money coming in and we know nothing about financial literacy. Buy your house first, get yourself situated, then buy me a house.
I was like, okay.

Speaker 1 It's safe to assume you're the first in the family tree that's stealing this kind of wealth. Yes, I am.
Only thing I know is putting the money in the bank. But wait, the bank only insures 200,000.

Speaker 1 So if you lose that, I'm kind of scared and invest. Invest in what? So I had to like figure it out through trials and tribulations.

Speaker 1 But I saw this nice house, beautiful, like something I've never seen before with the pool and the marble floors. And they were on the mission to help me find my house first.

Speaker 1 I was like, mom, you like this house for me? She's like, I love it for you. And I gave her the keys.

Speaker 1 I've never seen a person cry so fast. Yeah.

Speaker 1 She's like, We can't afford this. I was like, it's already paid for.
I wanted to make certain mistakes early. Like, when you got a whole bunch of money coming in, you can be silly up front.

Speaker 1 You really fucked up the first million, let's be honest. Oh, easily.
You blew it all in one day. One day.
One day.

Speaker 1 You buy three Mercedes in one day? Oh, yeah. Three Mercedes in one day.
Oh, that's incredible. He bought himself one, brought it home.
Sergeant's like, that's fucking nice.

Speaker 1 He goes, well, I don't get you one.

Speaker 1 No, but I gave her the kids, she's like, we can't afford this. It was paid for.

Speaker 1 And the reason why I pay for it, if everything goes wrong, if I'm one of those dumb athletes, these motherfuckers have to pay for it. Yes, exactly.
Oh, that's true.

Speaker 1 Yeah, have you watched the 30 for 30 broke? Yes, I have. That is so heartbreaking.
It is.

Speaker 1 And what they point out, which is so great, is like if you chart anyone else's earning potential in their life, it starts little.

Speaker 1 And as they get older and wiser and more experienced, it keeps going up and up. But it's easy to do.
A lot of people don't understand. I was looking at NBA salaries today.

Speaker 1 I want to put people's business out there, but a guy's making 50

Speaker 1 and living in California after tax. He's only netting 17.
They always, oh, he's making 200 million, but we know as business people, you don't net 200 million. You got an agent, you got taxes.

Speaker 2 But they're spending as if they have 200.

Speaker 1 That's the point. Yo, he was overdrawn within a couple of days of his first million dollars.
Now he's getting millions. He's like, oh, wait, there's only 600,000, but I spent a million million.

Speaker 1 For people who don't know your whole story, I do think it's fascinating that in ninth grade, you you tried out, you got cut. 10th grade, you try out and your legs hurt so bad.

Speaker 1 And then your dad gets stationed in Germany and you're over in Germany and the coach of LSU, Dale Brown,

Speaker 1 he's visiting. Your father goes, you should go introduce yourself to him.
And he sees you and you start asking questions and he asks, how long are you enlisted for?

Speaker 1 He has no idea you're 13 years old or whatever. And this is a time where you have to start believing in yourself and other people believe in you.
He put his arm around me like he found gold. Yeah.

Speaker 1 He's like 13. And he grabbed me.
He said, hey, where's your father at? Well, he met my father and they had a conversation.

Speaker 1 And that's the reason why I went to LSU, because before I became the character known as Shaq. You were terrible at that point, right? Awful.
What do you mean? As a basketball player. Couldn't play.

Speaker 1 He was terrible. Couldn't dunk, couldn't jump.
It ain't no way I'm supposed to be. one of the world's greatest big men.
But he believed in me. And he wrote me a letter.

Speaker 1 and all the exercise he sent, I did it. And it's got cut the next year.
I wrote him a letter back and he says, you know what? A lot of African-American kids don't get the opportunity.

Speaker 1 I'm still giving you a scholarship. You can come, you can be like team manager and maybe work your way up to an assistant coach.
Whoa. So I had a scholarship, even if I didn't become check to LSU.

Speaker 1 You must recognize it. You have this incredible life of highs and lows.
It's like dad's not there. Sarge shows up.
Well, that's a jackpot. You got fucked, then there's a jackpot.

Speaker 1 You get cut it kills the run but you meet this sweet guy and he believes in you that's kind of crazy

Speaker 1 angels by senior year so you got cut in ninth grade you can barely run down the court in 10th grade and then by senior year you average 47 points in the playoffs yes the highs and lows of that and kind of the whiplash of how quickly your life can kind of change i think could set a little bit of a pattern i have a similar one you get kind of maybe a little addicted to this i am because it helps us continue the fight And I was trying to teach my second son, Sharif, that

Speaker 1 high school start off slow, state championship, you go to college, not really playing, ever playing, then you have the heart thing, boom.

Speaker 1 For people who don't know, at UCLA, your son has to have heart surgery. He has to have heart surgery.
When he's at that moment feeling NBA bound. Exactly.

Speaker 1 So go to the Lakers pre-thing, cut, G-League, cut. And then I had to pull it aside and be like, my man, we don't need another basketball player.
We got one. Yeah.
We got one.

Speaker 1 You just being an outstanding kid, that's the biggest compliment I can get. Because one, you're never going to be like me.
I'm crazy. Right.
I'm from a different era. Exactly.
I didn't beat the shit.

Speaker 1 Like, I don't know if you watched the Reebux show I did, but we had a hard time. Power moves.
Yeah. I was like, how many things did I miss? You missed a lot, Dad.

Speaker 1 I was like, you don't ever want to be like that. Once you have a family, you don't want to be like that.
I had to be there because it was my destiny. Because I wanted to build something big.

Speaker 1 So I kind of had to be like this, but you don't have to be like that. So you see a lot of kids that are very successful just by hard work and passion.
Just like we did, just like all of us did.

Speaker 1 It doesn't matter if you have a degree or not, you work hard, you believe in something, you follow it. Like, my oldest son is one of the world's top DJs.
Oh, really? Yeah, Miles O'Neill.

Speaker 1 I bought him a little controller, and I taught him. You guys do shows together? Yes, we do.
Midnight tonight, we're going to Germany. No, yes, and you're doing a show together.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and you have room on your plane for me. I do.
Okay. Thank you for the invite.
I'll come.

Speaker 1 I remember one time I got mad, but then I smiled smiled at the same time. So I landed in L.A., he picks me up, and the car smells like cannabis.
So now I get in dad. You sound like such a dad.

Speaker 1 It smells like cannabis. Yeah, not weed.
Yeah, so now you motherfucking.

Speaker 1 I don't put hands on, but it gets very intense. And he starts laughing.
He said, Dad, have you seen my latest report car? I said, yeah, it got all lace.

Speaker 1 He said, okay, no disrespect, dad, but I've always had A's. I've always did what you wanted to do.
And cannabis is legal and I'm 21. And it made me shut the fuck up.
Oh, good.

Speaker 1 He kind of checkmated you. Checkmated me.
You've never been in the weed? No. Hookah.
Yeah, you smoke hookah. That's just tobacco? Yes, it's tobacco.
And does it give you a little buzz?

Speaker 1 No, it enables me to follow the routine of sit your ass down. Oh, it forces you to be still.
When I was young and dumb, and I lost my family by doing too much, being out and being in too many places.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So now,

Speaker 1 don't go to clubs. Don't go to gentlemen's clubs.
If you see me in a club, it's because I'm DJing. I gave myself a lifetime ban on that stuff.
But so I'm not a mute. So I don't just work and go home.

Speaker 1 I allow myself to go to hookah bars. Because at a club, bottles, you walk in and section and this and that.
But at a hookah bar, you sit down. So now when I'm,

Speaker 1 I'm thinking about the next move, just blowing out.

Speaker 2 Do you regret that period of time that you

Speaker 1 do?

Speaker 2 Because of the consequences. Yeah.
But also, I don't know how you could resist that at that time.

Speaker 1 But that's an excuse.

Speaker 1 When you're raised by intelligent people you know better especially once you walk down the aisle and give those vows you got to have some control well this is my single favorite part of the doc for people don't know so your biological dad tony he was not around

Speaker 1 soon as you broke he went on ricky lake which is a bummer were you embarrassed by that i would have been really embarrassed yes because i didn't want people in my business Did it feel trashy?

Speaker 1 A little bit. It's not trashy, but you know, in our business, once the media gets a hold of something juicy, now I got to answer it.
Oh, yeah, that was a big match for everyone.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so now it's, oh, you don't want to talk to your father and your little brother?

Speaker 1 I don't even know them people. But when I found my family, I said, I have to ease up.
Yeah, you said in the doc, when I do the same stupid shit he did, I'm in no position to judge you.

Speaker 1 I think the fact that you were able to, I don't know about mend is the right word, but reach out and have some connection with him. That's all Dr.
Lucillo knew. Oh, she advised you.
Yes.

Speaker 1 she said, listen. What a good woman.
She said, he's a great man. Just had some mistakes.
She get to know him. So when we first reconnect, I said, listen, I'm not judging you.

Speaker 1 I know everything about it, what happened. I understand.

Speaker 1 I love you, brother. But I'm 50.
I'll need a dad. I ain't your son.

Speaker 1 But I respect Philip really because when the guy tried to come back around, he's like, no, he's mine. Staying with me.
We know who you are. We know you brought him into where, he's here.
Phil's bed.

Speaker 1 He's under my roof. He's under my roof.
And when you want to call and talk, you have my permission. You come through me.

Speaker 1 So what's crazy that you didn't get seemingly biologically is dad was an addict. You had to be on pain pills to play.
I did. You were playing through so many injuries.

Speaker 1 Again, back to this thing where I'm suspicious that for you to admit you have any weakness would be too painful. You're just keeping it all in.
You're just playing through everything.

Speaker 1 You have stuff that's going on.

Speaker 1 And yeah, you had to be on pain pills how did that not grab you or did it grab you a little bit have you ever been scared about any of that addiction wise so i have a question yeah is addicting for the chemical effect or are you just taking it i was having my heat discussion with my doctor he's like you were addicted but i didn't feel high right you just felt the absence of pain yes so i didn't know that was addiction but let's get deeper shaq so there's the absence of physical pain and then there's the absence of the mental anguish so even if you're not feeling high but you're suffering mentally and that thing provides relief i don't think i would suffer mentally if i had a neck i would take it i don't want to feel that neck because we need this game yeah yeah well you said i could play good without them yes but i need to play great and then i always do homeboy math always says take one i'm taking three oh of course which is now my counts are low i'm fixing everything now but my liver and kidney is real low because of that but like you hear stories oh he was addicted he did that i I was like, I wasn't that, but I had to have them.

Speaker 1 So is that addiction? For me, addiction is I'm preoccupied by it. I think about it.
I need it. I'm talking to you, but I've got three in my pocket.
I got to figure out how to take a couple.

Speaker 1 See, I always thought you'd take it for this effect. Oh, right.
For example, when I had surgery, I had to take the oxycotin.

Speaker 1 I would take it just to feel the pain, but after I stopped feeling pain, I would stop taking it. But when I was playing, I always had to take endosin and erutis

Speaker 1 anti-inflammatories. I had to take a club sandwich, fries, two pills, wake up.

Speaker 1 Club sandwich. Yes.
That doesn't

Speaker 1 mean at all. No, but for 19 years.
But in the summer, I wouldn't take it. When the summer started and you no longer were taking them, did you feel withdrawal effects? No.

Speaker 2 And you weren't increasing the amount. That's a big thing.

Speaker 1 Well, I was. It says take one, I would take two.

Speaker 2 But then would you take four and then eight and then 16? Like that type of thing.

Speaker 1 Important games, yes. I'd take two the night before the game and then after shooter round, take two more.

Speaker 2 Yeah. It's a fine line when it's physical pain alleviation versus

Speaker 1 tricky.

Speaker 2 It's your job.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I don't know.

Speaker 1 Again, when I hear the word addiction, I always thought. Yeah, a junkie.
Yeah, yeah. But guess what? There's doctors and lawyers and airline pilots and people who are managing.

Speaker 1 You can be a managed addict or a functional addict. I certainly was.
I was still coming to work and doing everything I had to do.

Speaker 1 But I thought about it all day and dosages going up. And at some point, I'm like, oh, we're taking a lot of these.

Speaker 2 And you're hiding it. Hiding it is a big, big.

Speaker 1 You never hide, right? That's your gift. It's not that I was hiding.
It's just

Speaker 2 doing it in secret.

Speaker 1 Well, the trainers knew. I mean, I'm not telling my wife or my kids or my boys, but I'm like, hey, man, I've got this knee pain.
Here you go. Take one.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And were you just kidding me for a seven foot

Speaker 1 300,000 kids? That's not what the study was where they determined the dose.

Speaker 2 And that's probably right.

Speaker 1 I got a built-in excuse, but that was my same excuse. I'm like, they don't know me.
When I drank, I also drank a case of beer a day. Like, I got a constitution.
That's not for me.

Speaker 1 Stay tuned for more armchair expert.

Speaker 1 If you dare,

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Speaker 1 Okay, the other really amazing thing that's really obvious in the doc is you have this incredible

Speaker 1 at the same time, you have this epic humility and an epic ego. And you're kind of like managing them both and you're using them both as needed.

Speaker 1 And I'm wondering when you didn't get it right. Here's an example.
So you go into the league, your first round pick, your number one pick, You go to the magic. You go to the finals, year three.

Speaker 1 You beat Jordan en route to the finals at what are you, 22 years old, 23 years old? 23. Really quick, what's that moment like? It was a great moment, but it was also a teaching moment.

Speaker 1 Because when you beat God,

Speaker 1 you think the job is done. Yeah.
Right. But then you have to realize in Greek mythology, there's other gods.
Yeah. So we beat Mike.
We had to. And then put it neutral.
Exactly. Not put it in neutral.

Speaker 1 We're partying, gentlemen's clubs right you're celebrating so yeah

Speaker 1 parades like it was just too much so yeah I mean dude I couldn't have managed any of this there's no judgment in this if I was 22 or three years old and I beat God how could I not think everything was possible and that my powers were unlimited I think that would be very misleading at 23.

Speaker 1 You know, I realized early that I live two different lives.

Speaker 1 There's real life and then there's our life, the superstar life. You can't live that life harder than you live this life.
So I'm a regular guy. Hello, sir.
Hello, man. You always have to have that.

Speaker 1 A lot of people in our business are, oh, like they live that.

Speaker 2 It doesn't look good. It's not enviable.
They're not living a real life. They don't have real relationships.

Speaker 1 They don't know that until tragedy comes. Yeah.
I've always been a student. I was like, not going to do that.
And then never want to disappoint my mother.

Speaker 1 Like one time we went to a restaurant, I was trashing, not trashing, but just I'm shacking with my mom. Hurry up.

Speaker 1 My mom and grandma said, baby, you don't treat people like that thank goodness for her and then again i'm programmed when you make that one mistake you delete it because if you do it again you're gonna get out yeah so she's like baby that was your warning yes like baby you don't need to treat people like that so that's why when i go to restaurants now i want to be known as the biggest tipper i want to let you know that hey i appreciate you I was thinking, didn't we have an actor on who used to work at the Beverly Hills four seasons and said they waited on you all the time?

Speaker 1 Yes, and you gave very big tips.

Speaker 2 Was it

Speaker 1 going to drive me nuts? It was great.

Speaker 1 this person worked at the beverly hills four seasons with sebastian the comedian sebastian yes he worked there for years and i said who was the best customer and literally right away he's like shaquille shaquille would come in and you would have some shockingly little meal i was kind of shocked with how date he was

Speaker 1 platter and then leave them on our bucks or something i learned early that you appreciate the people to help us become who we are Why would I shit on the server because I'm Shaq? Right.

Speaker 1 I just really appreciate people. Me too.
Okay, so back to the way you've balanced this humility and this ego.

Speaker 1 One part I love is from the second you get in a position where you're going to be doing interviews, you actually practice.

Speaker 1 You get people to come film you. You start practicing reading ads and being interviewed and realizing, oh, this is a part of my business.
I got to be humble enough to not just think I can go do this.

Speaker 1 So there's like great humility in that. But then you get to the Lakers.

Speaker 1 Seemingly this is going to be a fast pass to the finals. You guys are going to be champions, going to be Showtime 3.0 or whatever, and just, it's not coming.

Speaker 1 And I'm imagining if you had to say you were at a lowest point, was that lowest point when you should have been winning and it wasn't happening? I was at the tipping point. I'm going crazy.

Speaker 1 A lot of people don't realize that, but every time we lose, of course, it's going to be my fault. Not being a great freelance.
I used to tear my house up.

Speaker 1 I have to be coarser at the press conference, but when I get home, whatever I see, it's going to be smashed. Class.

Speaker 1 So one time, I think it was our last time we got swept before Phil came in. I'm in the Lake Hurd locker room.
It's pissing shit everywhere. I'm fucking ripping off urinals, ripping off the doors.

Speaker 1 You're hulking out. I'm going crazy.
And somebody grabs me and it's pretty strong. I'm like, get the fuck off me.
And I turn around. It's Mr.
West. So now I have to turn it off.
He pushes me.

Speaker 1 I fucking go back. Calm the fuck down.
You're going to get it done. And he tells me that he went to the finals seven, eight, or nine times and lost before he won.

Speaker 1 he never won i think he won one i don't think he ever won i think that's the great heartbreak of jerry west i don't think he ever won i don't know rob will look it up i'm like hold on seven finals can you imagine the agony not first round second round finals and he was like i believe in you we're gonna get it done and then he tells her we're gonna make some changes this coach is out there we're gonna get a new coach when he said i got a new coach i'm trying to help him out and i saw phil was having problems in chicago i was like you need to call phil So then Phil does something that I don't know if he'd think I was going to pass his test because when you hear that this guy's a problem, this guy's a problem, you hear these guys are divas.

Speaker 1 Sometimes you don't want to deal with divas. You got to make sure you're coachable.
Yes, exactly. So I get to Montana.
He tells you, come see me in Montana. Test number one, really.

Speaker 1 Yes, test number one. And you don't even know where Montana is at.
I don't. So I go to Montana.

Speaker 1 He has this nice log cabin house and I see the fucking balls and the sunroof and it's hitting those balls. And I knock on the door and he says, I need you to do me a favor.
And I say, what?

Speaker 1 He said, you and my son need to move that log from the front to the island. Swim across a lake, a big old log.
Yeah. That's a big swing to tell you to go swim to an island pushing a log.

Speaker 1 But what he doesn't realize is my Phil used to do the same shit. I ain't got no gas.
Push my car two miles.

Speaker 2 But still, you could have been like, I'm Shaq. I'm not doing that.

Speaker 1 I could have. But that's where Phil's the gift that keeps on giving.
You're kind of hardwired at that point to respond to that kind of command, right?

Speaker 2 Again, it's when you respect someone, yes.

Speaker 1 But I know it was a test, and his son was already in the water. So I was like, all right, I just didn't realize how fucking cold it was.

Speaker 1 This sounds miserable. So he comes in, and then you have this incredible three in a row.
I got to tell you a really quick, funny story. You got me out of a DUI.
I went to UCLA.

Speaker 1 A classmate and I were the biggest fuck-ups at UCLA. He's now a professor there, which is hysterical, Jason DeLeon.

Speaker 1 And you guys won in 2000.

Speaker 1 And we were such Lakers fan and we went out hard and we were both riding on my motorcycle in Venice and we saw cops and we tried to turn down an alley and we ended up in a bush.

Speaker 1 Then the cops caught us and we were both like, we're fucked. We're going to jail.
And the cops were like, what's happening here? And Jason goes, I'm sorry, officer. I've been a lifetime Lakers fan.

Speaker 1 We're just celebrating that they won. And then the cop goes, I'm a lifetime Lakers fan too.
Why don't you guys get a cab home?

Speaker 2 Oh, nice.

Speaker 1 And let us out. That's awesome.
Anyways, yeah, you guys go on this huge run. And then there's another part of the dock that I'm curious about.

Speaker 1 And someone who I think has the same kind of money things, which is like, I wanted it. I'm so afraid of losing it.
It's so important. That's the metric I'm going to evaluate myself on.

Speaker 1 What did you pay me? What did my co-star make? Why'd he make more? I should be here. That racket.
Do you think you cared about money too much, Son?

Speaker 1 Of course.

Speaker 1 It takes never having it to want it. And then once you get it, you know that there's a window you can get more.
My dream was to make 8 million for 10 years. That was my dream in high school.

Speaker 1 I had it on the board. You remember that place? It was a store I used to go.
I think it was called Spencer's. Oh, Spencer's gifts.
Spencer's gifts.

Speaker 1 So Spencer had a poster with this nice house with three-car garage. Remember that? Justification for higher education.
Yes, that. Boom!

Speaker 1 I had that. Had a Lamborghini Countage, a Ferrari.
Oh, my God. And a Porsche.
I had that on my wall. Yeah, yeah, I did too.
And I was like, you know what? 8 million for 10 years.

Speaker 1 And I already had a, I'm going to get a Jimmy Blazer and get me a little benz and give me an old school something.

Speaker 1 So then I'm in college one day and I think Derek Coleman signs for 20, Larry Johnson signs for 30. So that I get an agent.
He said, man, I'm going to ask him for 50 million. I was like, what?

Speaker 1 Like 50 million. So I was one of the first guys that you signed, but in the middle of your deal, you can renegotiate and get more money.

Speaker 1 So when I signed my 50, my guy was like, hey, man, if you do what I expect you to do, your next contract will be 100 million.

Speaker 1 oh my god i was like what so that's why i'm going crazy but now when my time's up i want 150 because i learned in the marketing class you always start high yeah right i'm not gonna say a hundred because i already know you're gonna walk me down to 80.

Speaker 1 i want 150.

Speaker 1 the orlando's like we're not paying you 150 and then one night during olympics jerry west first time met jerry west he showed me that contract i saw so many zeros 120 zeros look like a telephone number yes so i signed with the lakers but then my guy was like hey man if you do well with this you can get get another 100.

Speaker 1 You bring three titles. Exactly.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so then I want more. And it's like, no, we like the young guy more.
We think we're going to trade you.

Speaker 1 So then I go to Miami and the guy was like, hey, man, if you help us win, I'll give you 100.

Speaker 1 So the answer is yes. It seems like you learned a little bit.
I mean, there was a point where, yes, the money was really, really important in the Lakers. And then when you were on the heat.

Speaker 1 Riley or whoever said, look, if I can give you 125 and we get nobody, or I can give you 100 and we can get a winning team. You made the decision then.
Because I knew I had to win one more.

Speaker 1 And why'd you have to win one more, be honest? Because I wanted to win before he did. Yeah.
I would be the same.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because you guys had to share that glory. Yes.

Speaker 1 And then you get split up. And yeah, if he runs away and does it immediately, then that diminishes.
That's the eagle part. Again, it's the balancing.

Speaker 1 Yes, but it actually made both of us great because I know I used to drive him crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I knew what he was. I knew what he was capable of accomplishing.

Speaker 1 I used to drive him crazy. It's impossible the fact that you're both on the same team.

Speaker 1 I mean, when you look at the history of the NBA, the fact that both of you, it'd be like Jordan and Wilt were on the same team, or you name the people.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but my leadership style always focuses on the task. If I was with you guys, my task would be make us go viral.
I'd bring over everything and we'd all be.

Speaker 1 We're going to have to pull our pants down, I think. Yeah, we go.

Speaker 2 I think the picture of me standing next to you is going to be pretty impressive for people.

Speaker 2 Basketball is so interesting because when you were talking about Kobe and the teams, it's one of the only sports that it is such a team sport. You need each other.

Speaker 2 You rely on each other, but then there's also superstars in the mix. There are best players.
I just feel like that could get so complicated relationally.

Speaker 1 And if you look at our relationship, it's the classic tale of the godfather. You got the godfather who came from Orlando, and he's the godfather.
But you got a young Capo. And then finally,

Speaker 1 are you Michael? Are you Sonny? I think you're Sonny. No, he's Michael.
Yeah, Kobe. Yes, I'm a godfather.
Okay, great. Because remember, when I came to L.A., I was already established.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I was the biggest thing in the league. So he's there and he wants it.
You guys are so fucking different to me.

Speaker 1 He's like speaking Italian. Yes.
You couldn't be more opposite. We win three.
We do a lot of deals. And then finally,

Speaker 1 I get assassinated. They thought I was dead.
And I relocate to Miami. I got to get it back.
Show up in a semi. Yeah, it's business.

Speaker 1 And, you know, for me, being relocated every four years, I just said to myself, I just did two terms in L.A. Now it's time to move on.

Speaker 1 But I was always thinking about what happened if we would have stayed together. We either would have won more or it would have ended very badly.

Speaker 1 And then I had to teach myself, stop wearing, it's a useless title. The people in your life already think the way they think about you.

Speaker 1 Couceal's been thinking you were this from the jump,

Speaker 1 right or wrong. And Uncle Jerome said it best.
He's like, look, you get paid the most on the team. You're going to be the one they blame.
That comes with the paycheck. It's the deal.

Speaker 1 But when you were stressed, did it ever cross your mind? Because I've had this thought when I've directed movies, which is, boy, these directors that are fucking assholes make great movies.

Speaker 1 Do I got to be a dick? Do I got to be Jordan and have my teammates hate me? Did you ever consider that you were too nice or that you had too much fun? Were you fearful you had to be an asshole to win?

Speaker 1 Yes. And then I became an asshole.
You did? Yeah. So you do have to be

Speaker 1 early. I was focused on a relationship.
You all right? But now I'm focusing on the task.

Speaker 2 That's sad. I wish.

Speaker 1 No, it's not sad. Let me tell you why.
Yeah. If I know you're going to give me your best rhetoric when you're upset, I'm going to make you upset.
So I know Kobe's going to be a monster when he's mad.

Speaker 1 Motherfucker, this ain't your team. This is my team, little motherfucker.
Yeah. They could scream, Kobe, all you want.
This is my fucking team. And it would drive them crazy.

Speaker 1 People are like, oh, he was in the gym working out. That's because you ain't shit.

Speaker 1 That fucking Michael Jordan jump you're doing is not going to work what did he do go fucking shoot a million times to show me it'll work and i needed that because i already know what i'm gonna do so if i'm giving you 28 30 and this guy's trying to match me and outdo me that's 60 fucking points now rick it's still for the overall that's what i'm saying now rick when i kick it to you give me one big shot bob b shaw me and him gonna do most damage people don't understand everything i did was planned and it's never personal like oh why don't you and kobe don't get along i don't want us to get along i want us to fucking win and then brian shaw asked phil one day why you never jump on kobe you always jump on on check and his response was i always want kobe to be in attack mode and okay so you want him in attack mode i'm gonna make sure he attacks you played fucking soft last night motherfucker you missed too many shots i was just driving crazy i knew exactly what i was doing and then whenever he says something his guy says something my guy they're talking about us marketing the more marketability we have the more money we have it's a story exactly you know some of your story i had wrong i thought you came out, you were huge, and then you're like, now I'm going to be a rapper.

Speaker 1 Now I'm going to be a movie star. And I was shocked to learn you went on Arsenio after the first finals run at the end of the season.
And you, for fun, as a bit, rapped with Fushnickens.

Speaker 1 Not after the finals. That was my rookie year.
I did that. Okay.
You win rookie of the year. Season's over.
You go to Arsenio. You rap with Fuschnickens for fun.

Speaker 1 And then the next morning, someone offers you $10 million record contract.

Speaker 1 I'll do any job for 10 million dollars that's my point i'm in four seasons i see one of chris rock's boys i want you to be in my movie first movie i did was cb4 before blue chip before blue chips cb4 was the first i'm sitting there and chris rock is bam basketball fan know you're i said i know who you are too he's like man you want to be in my movie it's like sure and then four seasons again sitting in there and guy says hey man i want you to do this movie blue chips so you know i don't know the stuff so i said talk to my agent because you know that's the thing to say hollywell okay i'll get you you know get to my agent and my agent's like bro this is a real movie that was a great movie as a youngster you dreamed about it but i wasn't going to la chasing it but yeah you got to take advantage of these opportunities i was like i'm not a movie star three million i'll do it yeah

Speaker 2 what do i have to do you just have to play a basketball player i think i can get away i can probably do it there was a role i might be able to pull off back to being mean though real quick in the doc i thought it was so interesting you said you fouled jordan and then you went to go help him and he was like don't help me don't help anyone.

Speaker 2 And I heard that and I was like, God, that sounds so cruel. Just sounds like such a hard way to live your life, but I guess it works.

Speaker 1 And he was only giving me that brotherly advice because we're in the same fraternity. A lot of times you see greatness in other people.
All the legends, they respected me for the way that I played.

Speaker 2 But did you have to turn that off once you left the court? Were you able to go back and forth like that?

Speaker 1 Easily.

Speaker 1 I don't like it either, but you know, as he sits here and he's got four rings, I i realize you go to a restaurant be friends no i agree you got a whole life to be nice and be friends exactly you got 48 minutes to do something as a highlight because you're able to do both that's where it gets tricky i think i think some people can't turn it off and then that's who they are

Speaker 1 but you have to turn it off because it'll burn you out yeah because i got so many motivating factors gotta play well Got to make money. When I'll make money, my mother's going to lose her house.
I

Speaker 1 got to win. Oh, shit.
They're comparing me to Kareem and Will. There was just so many.
And integrity. There were times where you're like, I feel like I'm robbing these people.

Speaker 1 They gave me all this money. I know, right?

Speaker 1 Well, that's the last thing I want to say if you don't want to talk about campus. But the thing I've admired about you the most, and I've said it on this show like 35 times.

Speaker 1 I watch all these sports talks. I'm not super into sports, but I am very into sports talks.
I love them all. A lot of these folks haven't seemed to balance fun and success.

Speaker 1 And I think, okay, Jordan got six, but it came at a pretty big price in my opinion. That's not how I would want my teammates to talk about me.

Speaker 1 Kobe got five. That came at a big price.
People didn't love Bird. When I look at you, that's it for me.

Speaker 1 If you can get four and have a good time, I'd rather get four and have a good time than get six and be miserable. Right.

Speaker 1 And I just wonder, is that just your nature or is that something that you've actually been conscious of? I've always been a class clown, so I do it for real. You're just you.
You're very awful.

Speaker 1 You're silly. Like to make people laugh.
You have the best Instagram account. Thank you.
And all of Instagram. I say this all.

Speaker 2 She talks about it all the time. I do.

Speaker 1 I'll turn on like, oh, this song's been out for two days. And Shaq already memorized the words and now he's fucking doing a dance and singing to it.
I didn't know my mom knew what Instagram was.

Speaker 1 So when I first started, do whatever you wanted. So I'm bragging.
And I get the call, baby.

Speaker 1 I get the call. Hey, baby, we know how much money you make.
Don't throw it. I love her.

Speaker 1 I knew where the social media thing was going, so that's when I said, okay, 60% to make you laugh, 30% to inspire you, and then 10% to floss. Floss.
Not floss. Sell.
Like, hey, I got the new rebound.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I've seen you on a boat.
That's in that 10% category.

Speaker 2 Can we talk about privacy for just two seconds before we get into the...

Speaker 2 What is your relationship to privacy? Because you can't go anywhere.

Speaker 1 In fact, we had the experience. You wouldn't know this, but we were in Austin at Formula One and we were on the grid.
That's right. I'm getting some attention.
Kristen's getting some attention.

Speaker 1 And then all the attention stopped. It was palpable.
And I'm like, what happened? Everyone's looking a certain way. And I look and I'm like, oh, Shaquille's a quarter mile away and we all see him.

Speaker 1 The whole fucking stadium.

Speaker 2 You're the most recognizable person on earth.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you cannot hide. And I was like, either he loves her or it's got to be brutal.
I don't know. So I try to be righteous.
Whatever I'm saying or doing, that's who I am in real life.

Speaker 1 We have no privacy. You in particular.
I can't sell you one thing and then be doing something else.

Speaker 2 So it keeps you honest.

Speaker 1 It's just about being honest. I can't sit on this podcast and say, I don't drink and then be at the club.

Speaker 1 So I try to be as righteous as possible. And it's the world we live in now.

Speaker 1 Did you have any phase where you're like, fuck, I can't escape this and I need a break and I want to go to Arby's and I don't want anyone to see me?

Speaker 1 My problem is that sometimes when you see something, your brain can be manipulated.

Speaker 1 For example, if I reach over and put my hand on your leg, but not because I'm trying to caress your leg because I slip and I fall. Oh, yeah.
I can manipulate that picture.

Speaker 1 Like, I don't believe Shaq went to Dax thing and he was trying to rub, like, you know what I'm saying? So, and then once it goes viral, people will take that clip to try to build up their sight.

Speaker 1 So, a lot of times relationships can be manipulated. Because I remember one time I was at a bar and a girl came and took a picture.

Speaker 1 My girlfriend was, you fucking taking up here? I was like, what are you talking about? She shows me the picture. And I told her, I said, what are you loving?

Speaker 1 I said, said, It does look like we're together. Yeah,

Speaker 1 did you forget I told you where I was coming to eat? Like, yeah, so I'm stupid enough to tell you I'm coming to eat here and then bring another girl. That's the only thing I don't like.

Speaker 1 I had a woman in a hot tub say, Hey, can we take a picture? And I said, Well, certainly not in this hot tub, right?

Speaker 1 But there's no way I'm in the hot tub with you. Yeah, see, you have to be extra careful.
So, but we have no privacy, but I just try to live a true life.

Speaker 1 I look at the amount of businesses you have, and I am exhausted looking at it.

Speaker 1 Like, like you have 155 guys at one point and you own all these car washes and all the chicken restaurants, all this stuff. It seems exhausting.
Yet you have things like campus.

Speaker 1 When you say I'm done kind of going into ventures because I'm trying to get more money and I'm actually trying to go into ventures where I can spread happiness and joy.

Speaker 1 I think the rubber meets the road on this. How did you stumble upon campus? So let me take you back.
If it wasn't for basketball, I wouldn't have never thought of college.

Speaker 1 A lot of people know they can't afford afford college. A lot of people know they're not getting scholarships.

Speaker 1 A lot of people know that if they do go to college somehow get this money, they're going to be in debt for a long time.

Speaker 1 So when I met the gentleman Todd, who kind of career, he said he purchased a two-year college in Sacramento and he put it together. He wanted to make it debt-free.

Speaker 1 He wanted to make it to where you can go to a two-year college of your choice and be taught by professors at elite universities. It's online.
They help you get the grant money that already exists.

Speaker 1 There's $40 billion in federal federal grant money that's out there. $4 billion of it went unclaimed last year.
Yeah, but we don't know these things. Right.
So help you get that grant money.

Speaker 1 Be online, real online, not you watch this recorded video of a professor. And then, yes, some of the professors, there's Stanford professor, UCLA, Princeton professor, and they help you get funding.

Speaker 1 They're sending 80% of the students a free laptop because they don't have one. Yes.
They're paying for half of these students Wi-Fi because they know they need good Wi-Fi. Yep.
Todd, a special dude.

Speaker 1 Yes. I used to go to all these conferences because I wanted to feel smart.
Yeah, yeah. You want to be smart and hang around smart people.

Speaker 1 So this was when Jeff Bezos, years before he created Amazon, he said, you invest in things that's going to change people's lives.

Speaker 1 Because at that point, I was investing in ghetto shit and crazy shit and was losing. Shirts with pinstripes.
I was trying to get rich quick.

Speaker 1 So then he said, you invest in things going to change people's lives. So Ring was the first one, did another one.
Then I came across this.

Speaker 1 I was like, this is definitely going to change people's lives.

Speaker 1 this helps you get to it quicker because you know college my first three years i'm a junior and i'm in the league i'm like how come i don't know what a sub chapter is corporation is how come i don't know what fica is yeah yeah yeah like i don't know any of this well the best is your mom you wanted to leave lsu or you're considering as you should to go to the nba and your mom's like okay baby come balance this checkbook well your dad said no

Speaker 1 he was like absolutely not mom said balance the checkbook and i took one accounting class that i fucking failed and i remember debits and credits So I'm like,

Speaker 1 she's like, you're not ready. So then my junior year, I took some business courses.
And I was like, I'm going to retake this accounting class. I know the professor.
I know I'm going to pass it.

Speaker 1 So now when she said, because I already knew the moon, okay, bouncing shit, but

Speaker 1 she's like, okay, baby, you're ready.

Speaker 2 I know. I love that story.

Speaker 1 Also, Dale Brown to his credit. Again, this guy would have benefited greatly if you stuck around and you were just getting hammered nightly.

Speaker 1 And he's like, this dude's going to get injured and not even be able to play if I keep him here it's called Lloyd's in London it was a million dollar posse which is a lot but he knows a million dollars ain't gonna be a million dollars probably gonna be 400,000 and how long is that gonna last so he's like man you got a chance because he called me off he's like man Derek Coleman or Larry Johnson whichever one made 20 30 million you can get 40 you can get 50 you got another guy believing in me he's like yeah you should go It's awesome.

Speaker 2 Like, for real?

Speaker 1 He's like, yeah, you should go. I was like, what about get my degree? You'll come back.
I'll coordinate coordinate with the teachers. You come back whenever you're ready.

Speaker 1 And you graduate because I was very close to graduate, but never really did it. And then after I shot all those movies, and mom said, hey, man, we need to get this degree.
So then I finally did it.

Speaker 1 Great. Campus also has success coaches available to everyone.
Talk about why that's necessary. I'm in school now at LSU because I wanted to become a support psychologist.
Currently, you're.

Speaker 1 Yes, currently right now. You made good on your promise to your mom, and you got your BA from LSU.
Then you got a master's and then you got a doctorate in education.

Speaker 2 Oh my God. I didn't know any of this.

Speaker 1 You're sitting with a doctor girl or in a doctor's studio talking to a doctor. It's double doctor.
Wow. Different type of doctor.
Yeah, but still.

Speaker 1 Now you're pursuing sports psychology. I'm changing it up to mentorship now.
I'm all about validity. For example, if I want to be an actor, I'm definitely coming to you and your lovely wife.

Speaker 1 Let's be honest, you're going to my lovely wife. No, I'm around.
You might ask her.

Speaker 1 Where do you park when you get to the studio? Because y'all are valid in the space. So one time I went to a sports psychologist and the fucker tells me to breathe.

Speaker 1 And I'm like, you don't know what it's like to be in Sacramento down by one. And if you miss a shot, it's your fault.
There's cowbells. Yes.
So that always stuck with me.

Speaker 1 No disrespect to what they know on the academia side.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but they've never done it.

Speaker 1 Thank you. Yeah, no experience.
There you go. And then there's nobody out there like that.
So, you know, that's the ego. I want to be the first.

Speaker 1 Because I know, you know, as a kid, i know been there a lot of times dealing with the best beast but so i wanted that title and then when i'm changing it to mentorship a lot of these young athletes young men need mentors in their life i just took my first class was about the book theodicy good timing i think nolan's got a movie yeah i saw that yeah i saw that so i'm learning a lot about mentorship and i'm gonna probably lean towards being a mentor rather than being a sports psychologist but a lot of these kids that end up at campus they don't have a parent that went to college.

Speaker 1 So many of them are going to be first generation to go to college. I can relate.
What a great asset to have there for them to have someone go like, okay, you're failing here.

Speaker 1 You got to do this, helping them through the process. We definitely offer a mentorship program, and I will be assisting in that.
Being who we are.

Speaker 1 We automatically get the respect, like you said, Phil Jackson resume because of our resume. We always just try to keep it simple.

Speaker 2 I love that. That's so admirable.
You could just be on your boat all day. You don't have to do any of this.
You don't need a doctorate. You don't need any of these things.
And you're pushing yourself.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because when I look at today's athletes, I know what their problem is in one sentence. And you know that I know.
I'm not one of these fans.

Speaker 1 You know that, hey, stop trying to go to the middle, go baseline. Joker.
Uh-huh. Jig is up.
You're bullshit meters high for that. Yeah.
They know that I know.

Speaker 1 I actually learned that from an old coach, Bill Burker, with the Lakers. I didn't know who he was.
I don't pay attention to shit. He would always say, go baseline, go baseline.

Speaker 1 And then one day he said, that's the same thing I used to tell Will.

Speaker 1 So now I'm paying attention. You coach Will.
Yeah, I coach Will. And I coach Kareem.
So now I know this fucker knows what he's talking about. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Baseline. I averaged eight more points.
And I still thank him to this day. So I want to be that for these young kids.

Speaker 1 Stay tuned for more armchair expert.

Speaker 1 If you dare.

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Speaker 1 I try to imagine your initial meetings with these companies. And here's my guess.

Speaker 1 I feel like when you go in to be an ambassador for a company or invest in a company, you're like, okay, here's what I'm going to provide. I need to be able to give a lot of this away.

Speaker 1 Is that part of the discussion? Like when you became the president of Reebok, every time I see you go out to talk about Reebok, everyone that's in the area is getting free shoes. Yes.

Speaker 1 You gave away 100 and something shoes on Fallon the other night. I was thinking of the person that had to ship all those after you just shot your mouth off.
One is marketing.

Speaker 1 And two, it's about when I meet with the companies, I know they know me as a basketball player. So this is what I tell them.
I'm the center.

Speaker 1 You're the point guard. You're the forward.
And we're here to win championships. I'm not here to take your money because on the business business side, a lot of times I ask them, what's your out?

Speaker 1 I ain't going to lie, I wouldn't mind investing in a company that we get bought by Amazon. It's not really a goal, but it'd be nice if it happens.
Yeah. So I always ask them they're out.

Speaker 1 So now that I know what you're out at, so now I know, hey, hopefully I can help you get to that. And we had that with Ring.
It was my first out, and I got a nice hit. It was so beautiful.

Speaker 1 So now I'm chasing that. Now that I'm chasing money, I'm like, how can I help make this company grow so somebody can take it to the next house? Yes, yes.

Speaker 1 So in classic Shaq fashion, you're giving away a bunch of scholarships? Yes. Giving away a bunch of scholarships because we want people to fulfill their dreams and we have the opportunity to do that.

Speaker 1 And a lot of people call it giving back. I'm just doing what my mother told me to do.
When she sees this and hears that story, that's better than you made over 500 million.

Speaker 1 That's better than you just bought a new house 10,000 square feet in Dallas. She don't care about none of that shit.
Yeah, yeah, she's not impressed. At all.
And I'm getting older.

Speaker 1 She's getting older. You have to cherish these moments.
So I chase those moments more than I chase anything else. So how many scholarships are you giving out? A lot.

Speaker 1 I don't want to say them, but definitely a lot. And if it's not a lot, now that I said a lot, I'll make it a lot.

Speaker 1 I think it is a lot. Anyone who wants to apply for a scholarship at campus goes to shackscholars.campus.edu.
Yes. Shackscholars.campus.edu.
Go there.

Speaker 2 Listeners, do this. This is an awesome opportunity.

Speaker 1 So many kids right now are pretty disillusioned. Like, wait, I'm going to go pick up 150 grand in debt, enter a job market that I don't even know will be there at the end of all that.
Exactly.

Speaker 1 This is like a disruptor approach. It is.
We want to help people. And I wish I could take all the credit, but Todd is a mastermind behind us.
And you got the Silicon Valley boys behind us.

Speaker 1 And it's been doing very well. All right, my last question, because it seems like we have a very similar relationship with our moms and a similar respect for our moms.
I sometimes

Speaker 1 worry about my life with her not on the planet keeping an eye on me, not for safety, but because she's been my conscience. We are the same people.
She's what's kept me.

Speaker 1 When I've been in a crack house, everything's fun and I'm smoking crack. This is a good time.
And then, God damn, if my mom saw this.

Speaker 1 A friend of mine, mother just died, and I didn't know what to say because I don't know how that feels. But I think about that all the time.

Speaker 1 I do a lot of speaking engagements and people say, What do you want to say? Reach out and always tell a story. I don't know if you heard it.
Get to see my sister in Orlando on a Thursday.

Speaker 1 She has cancer, but it's her third time having it. She beat it the two times.
They don't tell me that stage four. They don't want me to worry.
So I see her, but I'm in anathy mode. Fuck it.

Speaker 1 You beat it the last two times. I called the best doctors.
We good, but they're not telling me anything. But I ask her.
I said, hey, you want me to stay here?

Speaker 1 And something said, just stay with her today. But I had a business deal in L.A.
I need to go get this money right quick.

Speaker 1 But so in my mind, I was like, you don't want me to stay, but I'm going to go do the deal.

Speaker 1 Leave there about about two you know three hours back so get there at 11 stay all day leave at six which is a red eye flight on the plane she passes away

Speaker 1 but the point is i never got to tell her i love her but if i would have stayed there with her all day maybe the doctor would have been like hey you have stage four then i would have i love you i love you i love you i love you right stopped everything yeah and then same thing with kobe we had our little riff And then I'm downstairs practicing with my son.

Speaker 1 And listen, Kobe was good to my kids. They love him.

Speaker 1 his uncle kobe i always tell people this is dad beef he seemed to have immense integrity yes and then so i remember one time i was in san antonio it's like you hate dave robins i say yeah but not to the point if i see him at a restaurant with his beautiful wife i'm gonna beat him up this is a this is a dad thing so anyway they love them so i'm working with one of my sons and one of my older sons come crying so now i'm trying to stop time My mother died.

Speaker 1 Your mother, one of your boys get like shot. Hey, man, what you crying for? Kobe passed away.

Speaker 1 I said, what the fuck you just said to me? It feels impossible. Healthy, vibrant.
Because the night before, we just watched LeBron break his record. All day I'm talking about Kobe.
Kobe passed away.

Speaker 1 I said, bro, stop fucking playing. So now on the phone, it's going crazy.
I need confirmation. I'm calling people.
So now I have to break down, but it makes you like, fuck.

Speaker 1 I know.

Speaker 1 I saw him at the last game. We had a little thing, but I could have.

Speaker 1 So I always tell people, hey, reach out. X.
yeah well if i were you i think i would have wanted

Speaker 1 say to him maybe

Speaker 1 hey you made me better i want to thank you for that yes or hi or you yeah

Speaker 1 anything anything so i always urge people even though i say it i still need to do one thing that made me sad in the doc was the penny stuff yeah that made me sad too like are you good with penny yeah we're all good i was young and dumb like you said remember the ego thing yeah yeah ego well and it's almost not your fault no it was i mean yes.

Speaker 1 It was. I'm tactful enough to fix any situation.
Sure, the repair probably you could have done better. But I'm saying the context you come from, I got to have this.
This is how I'm valued.

Speaker 1 I know this is how I'm valued. Why don't I have this? I understand it.
And then again, it was a godfather thing. Oh, I'm the fucking man.
You're trying to say he's a man, Mr. Commission? No, no, no.

Speaker 1 Oh, you don't want me? Okay. The L.A.
mafia wants me. Rather than saying, okay.

Speaker 1 You control this part of the business. I control that part.
Like, imagine this thing and career. And it worked perfectly.
This is a completely stupid question. It's my last one.

Speaker 1 I don't know why I've always thought this, but all those years I was obsessed with the Lakers, I was like, I think if I would have been bros with anybody on that team, it'd be Robert Ori. Yes.

Speaker 1 What do you think about Ori? I love Ori. You know, Kobe and I get a lot of credit, but definitely would not have won any without the others.
So I always try to stare the name.

Speaker 1 Big shot Bob saved both of our ass a lot.

Speaker 1 Rick Fox saved our ass a lot. Bishaw, Gary.
Those boys that catch on fire sometimes.

Speaker 1 As a fan, you'd be like, oh, thank God. Yes, yes.
So So I always try, but he was a great guy. And they really respected me.
They knew me. They understood me.

Speaker 1 Like, everybody always talking about, oh, if you would have been in better shape. My method is my method.
You beat me up so much during the year. I'm not doing shit in the summer.

Speaker 1 Because I already know mentally when I come back, I'm fucking killing whoever's in my way. Take me some time to get there, but I don't need to come in the first 40 games.

Speaker 1 I got the quintessential ingredient. Exactly.
And then. I'm going to come in.
Everybody going to talk this shit. I'm just going to get me mad.
And then I'm going to turn it on.

Speaker 1 Like, I don't want want to come in with the lights i want to come in with the lights dim and see what's going on and then turn them on at the right moment because a lot of times when you come in in shape you get worn out yeah i'd rather work up to it so i just came in with how i came in and then like i always say i want a skinny shack medium shack and fat check

Speaker 1 i've lied to you because i've said last question three times this is the last one four four probably five

Speaker 1 Another favorite part of you for me is I remember one time you came to a game and you were fucked up. I think maybe you didn't come out to the second quarter.

Speaker 1 And then you're getting interviewed after the game, and they're like, big fellow, what was going on?

Speaker 1 And then you rap, you freestyle, stop it a poil loco, eat a bunch of chicken, have diarrhea in the locker room.

Speaker 1 This dude's my dude.

Speaker 1 And then the other day, you were mid-live broadcast on TNT and you had fucking water

Speaker 1 because you were about to shake your pants out. We love a shit your pants story here.

Speaker 1 An unauthorized evacuation is about the funniest thing.

Speaker 1 It's so human. What could be more

Speaker 1 than lower? Even Superman's almost going to shit his pants sometimes.

Speaker 1 Well, that's it, man. You've just brought so much joy to my life and so many other people's lives.
I forgot about the Tom Marlowe thing, but I remember that. That was a fun cul-de-sac, man.
It was.

Speaker 1 It was you, Tom Marlow, and Charlie Sheen was up the street. I mean, you talk about three crazy people on one block.

Speaker 1 Well, great great to see you. I hope everyone goes to shackscholars.campus.edu and starts that education journey.
I mean, if this dude could find time to pick up a master's of bachelor's

Speaker 1 doctorate, no excuses. Yeah, I can't imagine someone's got a better excuse.
Can I use your restroom?

Speaker 1 Number one.

Speaker 1 All right, be well, brother.

Speaker 1 He is an armchair expert, but he makes mistakes all the time. Think I'm a good,

Speaker 1 he's gotta let them have the facts. I saw you've done an architectural digest spread.

Speaker 2 It was not an architectural digest spread.

Speaker 2 But thank you for bringing it up because I would like to shout it out. There's a very awesome shoe company called Margo.

Speaker 2 I like feel like I'm doing something wrong.

Speaker 1 Sure, me too.

Speaker 1 Are you recording on your

Speaker 1 Zoom? I am.

Speaker 2 But also, wait, Rob, you said something's supposed to be like click to the right thing.

Speaker 2 What's that mean, sea level?

Speaker 1 Sea levels. But it's like how high the ocean is.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 So there's a very cute shoe company called Margo.

Speaker 1 And hold on, I'm exposing my, can you see my leaf blower I keep in my office? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay. Like over here, it looks like I have a nice office.
And then I go scooch this way and you go, no, it's a, it's a shed.

Speaker 2 Wow, mixed messies.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. Sorry.

Speaker 1 Shoe company.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And

Speaker 2 they

Speaker 2 picked some people to kind of

Speaker 2 photograph them in the shoes, but they want to do it in their environment. So we did it in my apartment and it was so cute.
The photographer was incredible. Her name is Sydney.
Shout out to Sydney.

Speaker 2 And I thought it was also so nice because now I get like pictures in my apartment before I leave it.

Speaker 1 I was going to say, I would imagine, they turned out great to the degree I would imagine people think that's your new house for a little apartment. It's quite nice.

Speaker 2 It is quite nice. I've spent a lot of time making this a very nice apartment.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 I've been in here eight years plus.

Speaker 1 Have you really?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I moved in before we started the show.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow. Boy, time, it just boogies along.
When did you return home from New York?

Speaker 2 Okay, I got home on Friday. I have so many stories.

Speaker 2 I have one that i am so excited to tell you okay great and just to recap the last time we recorded was at dr mike's beautiful place it was we're resuming from there yes we were together in new york and then you left i stayed a week and i even added a day right which turned out to be fortuitous it was fortuitous because it rained that day and all of the flights were grounded.

Speaker 1 I was texting with my friend Ben and he was sitting on a tarmac for like three and a half hours trying to leave New York on the day you were supposed to leave.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And I just, the day before, I just knew, I was like,

Speaker 2 I don't, I'm, I'm not going home tomorrow.

Speaker 1 I'm not going home.

Speaker 2 I'm going to extend. And my powers are so scary.

Speaker 1 I bet they're starting to scare you. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, not to, remember when I accidentally killed Michelle Trachtenberg? Like, my powers are wild.

Speaker 2 Okay, careful. I know, but I just, I just want to own it.
Like, I, I have to be, I, I'm trying to use them for good, but, like, sometimes things go willy-nilly.

Speaker 1 Right. You're, you're like, Terrence Posner.
You haven't really perfected your powers yet. You're just coming to realize you have them, I suppose.

Speaker 2 Year one, I guess.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. Or you know, you're like putting the stepbrother in the snake exhibit.
You know, you're still there.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but he deserved it.

Speaker 1 And Michelle Trachtenberg did not deserve it. No, no.

Speaker 2 I want to be clear about that.

Speaker 1 I'm nervous to even talk about her, to be honest.

Speaker 2 Obviously, it's a horrible, horrible tragedy.

Speaker 2 But, and I realize this is genetic. Like, my dad,

Speaker 2 well, we got to know my dad is powers, but also he, when I was home with him and he was talking about quantum mechanics and quantum physics and how that's going to be his retirement plan, he, um, he was like, but I don't want to learn too much.

Speaker 2 Like, he was worried that if he

Speaker 2 knew too much, it would like make him go crazy, kind of. And that feels the same as this to me for some reason.

Speaker 1 I can understand how he would have that fear. Yeah.
Like, if you really know how the sausage is made, maybe something is lost. Okay, but hit me with your New York story.

Speaker 2 It was all so, so fun.

Speaker 2 I was confused, confirmed that like when i'm there i'm just at a hundred like i'm going from place to place to place i'm walking everywhere i'm seeing everyone i'm eating everything thank god i had been off of triz for a little bit so i was able to enjoy and enjoy thank god yeah yeah um so anywho um it's a rare rare comment to hear someone say thank god i wasn't on triz that week i know but it's true like can you imagine if i hadn't been able to eat all the, although it's a little,

Speaker 2 it's a little confusing because I was

Speaker 2 expending so much energy that maybe I would have been hungry anyway. I don't know.

Speaker 2 So Ana came to me, to New York for a couple of days, which was so fun because she was coming back from Europe and she was like, why not stop in New York? So she came. That was great.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Her and I went to my favorite restaurant in New York,

Speaker 2 pretty much top three favorite restaurants of all time. It's called East Sodi.
Oh, it's the restaurant where the mystery happened last time with that guy, Kenneth.

Speaker 1 Yeah, okay, great. Kenneth.
Which you didn't bump into him again. No, or maybe you did.
Maybe that's the story. Okay.

Speaker 2 It's not the story. That story has no conclusion.
We, the mystery remains. Yeah, yeah.
Okay. We're there.
We have a very early reservation, like as it opens, five o'clock. We get there.
Um,

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 I look over over and I'm like, wait a minute.

Speaker 2 That's Martha Stewart.

Speaker 2 Martha Stewart was at E Sodi.

Speaker 1 My girl, my dream side piece.

Speaker 2 Yes. She's, oh, oh my God.

Speaker 2 It's definitely the best celebrity sighting I've ever had in the wild. Like that, it was so

Speaker 2 crazy to see her. Also eating at the restaurant I'm eating at, it was such an endorsement.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. How validating.
Was she there with Snoop Dogg?

Speaker 2 No. Oh, that would have been so cool.
No. She was with a whole bunch of other people.
She was in head-to-toe yellow Susie Condi.

Speaker 2 Susie Condi is a clothing brand that you definitely know because Kristen wears a lot of Condi, and I have a couple pieces. They're kind of like Valore

Speaker 1 sets. Airplane gear, right?

Speaker 2 No, you can wear them out. You can wear them to eat Sodi.

Speaker 1 Okay, they've been pitched to me as an airplane. Like you want to be comfortable on an airplane, but you want to look stylish.
So, that I was told is premium airplane wear.

Speaker 2 It's great for a plane. It's great for ESOTI.
It's great all the time. But she was in yellow.
It looked so good. It made me really want the yellow one.

Speaker 2 I almost tried to go during the trip to copy her, but then I didn't. Anyway, she looked.

Speaker 1 But how close were you seated?

Speaker 2 The whole restaurant is so small. So, like, you know, I'm not good at feet.

Speaker 1 Okay. Could you like, I'm asking, was she two tables over, six tables over, one table over? Wow.
And who is she with?

Speaker 2 I didn't know. I wondered if it was like her family.
There were a lot of people there, but no one I recognized except her.

Speaker 2 Also, I should say there are two tables in between, but the one in between, no one was sitting at. So I just had a very open view.

Speaker 1 Oh, great.

Speaker 2 She looked gorgeous. She looked so good.

Speaker 2 Then I found out yesterday, adding to the sim of all of this, there was a picture of her in the cut. She's wearing the yellow condi.

Speaker 2 So I think it was that day that we saw her, that she was photographed, and she has like a new skincare line or something. And whoa,

Speaker 2 her skin looked incredible. So if she was really wearing her skincare, wow, we should all get it because she looks really, really, really good.

Speaker 1 Yes, she's, she's hot. She's sexy.

Speaker 2 There's more. There's more.
You think that's the end of the story, but it's not. So that was so, so exciting.
Then she leaves. Bye, Martha.
Um, I'm on a cloud, right?

Speaker 2 There's two people sitting next to us at a table right next to us that I can say is like five inches away, basically, one table. And you're with them, yeah.
Yes. And it was a couple.

Speaker 2 They were kind of upset once they saw our lasagna come because then it reminded them that they wanted the lasagna, but they forgot to order it.

Speaker 1 Okay. Oh, bummer.
And I saw photos of the lasagna and it looked insane. Oh, it's so good.

Speaker 2 It's so good. Anyway, so they were very upset about that.
They wanted to chat about it with us. So we did that.

Speaker 2 And then they left. And then a new couple comes and sits down.
I'm talking to Ana. So I can see a woman, you know, sitting next to Ana.

Speaker 1 And I was like, oh my God,

Speaker 2 that's a famous person too.

Speaker 2 I know her face, but I don't remember her. I don't know who she is.
So I was looking at Ana. I was like, I think that, I think she's somebody too.
So Ana went to the bathroom to

Speaker 2 look, to be clandestine. And then she texted me and she said, yes, it's Meredith Gray's stepmom from Gray's Anatomy.
And I was like,

Speaker 1 yes.

Speaker 2 Yes, it is. It 100%

Speaker 2 is.

Speaker 2 And also, ding, ding, I mean, the sim stacking here is so wild because Meredith Gray's stepmom died of hiccups on the show.

Speaker 1 Oh my gosh. I know.
Oh my gosh. Okay.
And if people did she didn't have any in the restaurant though, not yet.

Speaker 2 She hadn't eaten yet. Okay.
So maybe people remember, maybe they don't, but hiccups are a huge part of all of our lives. Jess has hiccups a lot.

Speaker 2 And I was watching ER and there was a storyline where someone came on and had hiccups, seemingly fine, and then actually had AIDS, which was horrible.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow. They went, they went to that well so often.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he had AIDS. And then I had to call Jess and say, hey, I just want to make sure you've been tested.
Okay.

Speaker 2 So all this is happening. Meredith Gray's stepmom hiccups wild, right?

Speaker 2 Then we leave. We go meet Emma at a hotel bar, very cute, swan room shout out.
We didn't think we were going to get in because we weren't dressed appropriately, but they did let us in.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 Emma, we were telling the story to her and she was like, what's her name? So I looked up her name and I was like, oh, Mare Whittingham. She was like, yeah, Mayor Whittingham.
I know that name. I look.

Speaker 2 She's married to Anthony Edwards.

Speaker 1 Dr. Green.
Come on.

Speaker 1 You're, you're the one you're obsessed with.

Speaker 1 Yes. Yes.
Who's the star of the pit?

Speaker 2 No, that's Noah Wiley.

Speaker 1 Oh, well, that's what I thought.

Speaker 2 No, Dr. Green.
Dr. Green, huge main character of VR.
I love him.

Speaker 1 I, okay. I mean,

Speaker 2 this is huge.

Speaker 1 Cross-pollinating medical shows.

Speaker 2 Yes, but the story isn't even over.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 Or I tell Ana, I was like, oh my God, he's married to Anthony. She's married to Anthony Edwards.
And she was like, looked at a picture. She was like, oh, yeah, that's who she was with.

Speaker 1 Come on.

Speaker 2 I was sitting next to him.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 2 can you believe this this is wild i i

Speaker 2 i am still i'm shook no one on earth could possibly be more excited than me right now i've been watching er i've been obsessed he was on zodiac and i was so excited to see him pop up on zodiac like

Speaker 2 of all the people to to be sitting next to him for it to be me is wild and then yesterday i was i've been re-watching girls the past couple days and he's, he pops up on girls.

Speaker 2 What is the world trying to tell me?

Speaker 1 To

Speaker 1 get an Anthony Edwards poster, I think.

Speaker 2 Can you believe it?

Speaker 1 I can, I can, yeah.

Speaker 2 You can, Dex. That's wild.

Speaker 1 I'm seeing the level of excitement from you for sure. And I'm applauding it, and I'm grateful for it.
But just imagine I was like, I saw.

Speaker 1 Mike Binkelstein and Phil Brackman, a motorcycle racer and a car racer. He'd be like, I can see you love those people, but I don't, I don't know who they are.

Speaker 2 No, that's not even close to the same.

Speaker 2 If you had been talking about Phil Brinkenstein for like months and AIDS, and you've been in, and no one knows about, no one's talking about Phil Brinkenstein except you.

Speaker 2 And then all of a sudden, you see him.

Speaker 1 No, I'm telling you, like, oh, what'd you do this weekend? I watched a Moto GP race. You know, I'm watching Formula One and Moto GP every single weekend.

Speaker 1 And then I see like a Moto GP rider and an F1 driver having lunch, you would be like, Yes, I understand for you.

Speaker 1 That must have been so thrilling, but you have no mental picture of them that you wouldn't want to see them eating. So, I'm bridging that gap.
Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm just saying, I'm saying the coincidence of it all, not about the people necessarily, but the coincidence that I've been talking about: AIDS and ER.

Speaker 2 No one is talking about that except me. You have to give me that.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 I'm giving all of it to you.

Speaker 1 This has got to be absolutely mind-blowing for you because you've been consuming it non-stop.

Speaker 2 Exactly.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 for sure.

Speaker 2 Anyway,

Speaker 2 if you think this is a cool story, you should definitely comment.

Speaker 1 I'm only saying, I'm trying to say, yes, that's crazy. And I myself have no excitement level over seeing them because I'm not in that world.
Sure. That makes sense.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Anyway, that was a crazy day. And

Speaker 1 I don't know. It was a blessed day.

Speaker 2 It was a blessed day. I'm supposed to know him, I guess.
The world is telling me such.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Bummer, you missed them.

Speaker 2 You know, it's funny because I definitely, you know, obviously I was very starstruck by Martha, but I would never say anything to her.

Speaker 2 But with Anthony Edwards, I would have said, hey, I'm really sorry. As I was leaving, as I was leaving, I would say, hey, I'm really sorry to interrupt.
I'm just a really huge fan.

Speaker 2 I've been re-watching ER and you're just so great. So, you know, have a good dinner.
But I would have had to have said it.

Speaker 1 Would you have thought to buy their dinner?

Speaker 2 Wow, that's funny. I do think about that a lot with people, but I, I don't, that didn't cross my mind.
Oh, but you're right. I didn't know yet.

Speaker 2 It wouldn't have crossed my mind with them for some reason. I think because I know they're extremely wealthy, they have that ER money.

Speaker 1 Right, right, right.

Speaker 2 And Gray's money. My God, don't forget.

Speaker 1 I bought a cute couple's meal two nights ago because I was nervous that the five kids we had brought to the restaurant may have reduced their enjoyment of their night out. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But that was more of a, I guess, a payoff.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that did happen to Jess and I some months ago. We were at a quarter sheet.
It's a very, very cute pizza place in Atwater.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 Jess like stabbed this cherry tomato

Speaker 2 and it exploded on a guy next to him.

Speaker 1 Oh, oopsies.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And he was panicking. I missed the cherry tomato incident.
All I, I like put my head up to see Jess be like, you know, panicking saying, I'm so sorry. Are you okay? And he was like, what was that?

Speaker 2 You know, it was very uncomfortable. And then Jess did pay for his dinner again as a sort of a payoff.

Speaker 1 So since I saw you, my update is we got home and

Speaker 1 very

Speaker 1 rash and last minute decision.

Speaker 1 I think we got home on Saturday. Huey came over with the boys and we went on the boat on Sunday.
And on that boat ride, Kristen and the girls were still coming home from New York.

Speaker 1 I said, you know, they're going to be home. Then we have guests coming three days after that.
If we're ever going to go to Dollywood, it has to be tomorrow.

Speaker 1 So the girls get home, and I'm like, okay, everyone, stay packed. We're going to go to Dollywood tomorrow.
We drove out there, Huey, Hayes,

Speaker 1 their two boys,

Speaker 1 Lincoln Delta, Kristen, and I. And

Speaker 1 it's about three and a half hours away in the Smoky Mountains. And Monica, I'm going to say something very

Speaker 1 dangerous.

Speaker 1 I think it might be my new favorite amusement park.

Speaker 2 That's, I don't know, I don't know what to say. I don't know what to say to that.

Speaker 1 I had been told numerous times since we got here that it was super nice. And I don't know why.
This is very unfair. But Dolly's personal brand, obviously, is quite over the top, big hair, loud makeup.

Speaker 1 You know, I love it. It's a whole vibe.
I think I pictured the park maybe representing that. Does that make sense? Like pink everywhere.

Speaker 1 This Dollywood is so charming and cute and elegant and clean. It's like run like Disneyland.
It's just spotless. The food's outrageous.

Speaker 1 We went to an all-you-can-eat restaurant for lunch that had unlimited fried chicken, unlimited pot roast, unlimited sauzige, unlimited something.

Speaker 2 It's a lot.

Speaker 2 It's quite a meal

Speaker 2 right before you ride all these rides.

Speaker 1 Oh, it was a heavy, heavy meal. And let's add that it was 93 or 4 degrees and a bazillion percent humidity.
We were hitting the park as hard as you could. Then we did that all you can eat.

Speaker 1 And then we really slowed down dramatically. And then it also felt way, way hotter.
And then we started saying, okay, kids, we got a hard out at this time, little negotiation.

Speaker 1 But I got to say, I was blown away. And they have a wooden roller coaster there.
I'm not, I don't want to get into a debate with people. I'm sure there's a faster one.

Speaker 1 I was told it was maybe the fastest wooden roller coaster in the world. I think it went 73 or 78 miles an hour.
But on a wooden roller coaster, that feels like 130 miles an hour.

Speaker 1 I think it's the most extreme roller coaster I've ever been on. I went on it back to back, and it was absolutely wild.
What a ride. What a ride.

Speaker 2 Oh, that's so fun.

Speaker 1 So much fun. Oh, it was so fun.

Speaker 1 And again, this amusement park is in the Smoky Mountains. You're like walking, and there's just like hills next to you with forest, and it's just as enchanted as you could imagine.

Speaker 1 Also, went to Gatlinburg in mid-July. It was mid-July.
That's from a boy named Sue.

Speaker 1 You remember that? Oh, Elvis. Gatlinburg in mid-July.
I hit the bar because my throat was dry. Johnny Cash.
Went to Gatlinburg, walked around that adorable town, went to a steakhouse with a salad bar.

Speaker 1 I've been just hit in the jackpot with salad bars. I bet I've been to six salad bars.

Speaker 2 And no listeria yet?

Speaker 1 No, not a touch.

Speaker 1 And so much so that Aaron and I have decided in my older age, in my retirement, I'm going to write a book called The Great Salad Bars of America.

Speaker 1 And he and I are going to drive around the country and try to figure out what are the top 10 best salad bars in the country. Do you think anyone would buy that book?

Speaker 2 If you make it look nice, if you make it a coffee table book, yes,

Speaker 2 I can help you make it look nice.

Speaker 2 Can you build your perfect salad bar salad? Build it right now.

Speaker 1 So, Iceberg, I love iceberg, just a mountain of iceberg. I like sliced mushrooms thin.

Speaker 1 I like tomato. I like bacon.
I like garbanzo beans. I like

Speaker 1 a sesame, no, not sesame,

Speaker 1 sunflower seeds.

Speaker 2 Oh, wow.

Speaker 1 And then I like, you know, a blue cheese and then mix in another dressing just to give it a little more bite from that mild blue cheese to a vinegar or something.

Speaker 1 And like at Sperry's, my current favorite salad bar is Sperry's Steakhouse in Nashville. And I will do

Speaker 1 three or four trips to the salad bar before the meal comes. And every single time on the fourth trip, I say, I really should have just got the salad bar.
I don't want my entree.

Speaker 1 But then I go back and I do the exact same thing the next time. And we'll probably repeat that again.
I wish I had the confidence because I just really want that salad bar. I can eat,

Speaker 1 you know, probably like two cubic feet of iceberg lettuce.

Speaker 1 You can picture that.

Speaker 2 Your ideal salad bar salad is

Speaker 2 so different from mine.

Speaker 1 I haven't

Speaker 2 been to a salad bar in a while, but my old salad bar routine,

Speaker 2 when I was living in the South, it's going to seem very southern.

Speaker 2 Lettuce, I guess, iceberg.

Speaker 1 Sorry, I left out hard-boiled egg. I just want to throw that in there in case you forgot about that topping as well.

Speaker 2 Thank you for reminding me.

Speaker 2 I would go

Speaker 2 lettuce,

Speaker 2 but not icebergs, like the mixed green lettuce.

Speaker 1 Yeah, mixed greens. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Mixed greens.

Speaker 2 Tomato.

Speaker 2 Shredded cheese.

Speaker 1 Ham. Me too.

Speaker 2 Oh, you're adding shredded cheese. Okay.
Yep.

Speaker 1 Yep. I forgot that.

Speaker 2 Yeah. But are you, which cheese do you put?

Speaker 1 Cheddar? The

Speaker 1 blend, ideally a Colby Jack right combo.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's like shredded. It's yellow.
It's white. It goes on there.

Speaker 1 Like Mexican mix, they call it in the when you get it at the grocery store.

Speaker 2 Right, but it's thicker than that. The cheese, the cheese pieces are thicker than what you'd get at the grocery store Mexican cheese.
Then

Speaker 2 ham. You know how they have that like ham in tiny strips matching the size of the cheese?

Speaker 1 Cubed ham, yeah.

Speaker 2 But it's strips.

Speaker 1 You like strips of ham.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's strips. So that goes out.

Speaker 1 Ham shreds.

Speaker 2 Cold ham shreds.

Speaker 2 I already said tomato, I think.

Speaker 1 What about for crunch? Are you going croutons?

Speaker 2 Croutons. And then ranch.

Speaker 1 That's nice. I'll dance with ranch when the time calls.
Yeah. If it's a buttermilk base.

Speaker 2 I'm so sorry. Sprouts.

Speaker 1 Sprouts. Okay.

Speaker 1 Yeah. That's great.
That's a great salad.

Speaker 2 Thank you.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, Dollywood, I just really cannot.

Speaker 1 celebrate it more. And then since coming home, Huey sent me an article that it was recently named the best theme park in America.

Speaker 1 I think

Speaker 1 first time Disneyland's been topped. Oh, wow.
Also, just drove back that night. And then I started, then I launched a little theory.

Speaker 1 So it's virtually the exact same distance as it would be to Cedar Point from Detroit. And I was thinking, I wonder if there's some calculus and they know it scientifically.

Speaker 1 Like, is three and a half hours is like the limit maybe

Speaker 1 that people drive to an amusement park. Like, do you think after four, it's like, fuck that, or five?

Speaker 1 I just think it's suspicious that some of these theme parks are built perfectly within like three and a half hours of a bunch of different cities.

Speaker 2 That is interesting, but you mean like for a day trip, like it's the max you'd go for a day trip, yes.

Speaker 1 Like, um, how far was it from Atlanta? Probably about three and a half hours, yeah.

Speaker 2 And well, Nashville is four hours, so get uh, so I don't know.

Speaker 1 But we drove three and a half east, yeah, exactly. So I don't know, Atlanta to Dollywood,

Speaker 1 four hours, okay, four hours and 12 minutes. Okay.
So that might be outside of people from Atlanta go to Dollywood?

Speaker 2 Uh, no. I mean, like, normally you've been, but that's just because, like, you've been in Tennessee.
But no, you wouldn't go like for the day to Dollywood.

Speaker 1 Right. Okay.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 What a place, though. What a place.
You get to tour her tour bus. Her pre-vost tour bus is there.
You can get on board. Yeah.
That's fun. And I was with these two little boys and four and six.

Speaker 1 And the four-year-old said,

Speaker 1 this where,

Speaker 1 this is where Dolly Parton poops. Oh.
Looking at the toilet. Yeah, that's immediately where his mind went.

Speaker 1 That's where Dolly had done some number twos.

Speaker 2 Yeah, the human brain is nasty. And the human butt.

Speaker 1 It's a nasty brain, the human brain.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I have to piggyback on your Gatlinburg story. Okay.
I've also been to Gatlinburg my after freshman year,

Speaker 2 no, no, no, freshman year college spring break.

Speaker 2 We went

Speaker 2 to a house in the mountains

Speaker 2 and, you know, stayed there for spring break. And it was, it was the first time I ever puked from drinking.

Speaker 1 Was on that trip.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 it, it was, it was so fun. We had the best time.
But the, so the day after I puked from drinking,

Speaker 2 bad hangover day was the day we were going to Gallenberg.

Speaker 2 So we went into the town and like, you know, with all the ride, like little rides and fair stuff.

Speaker 1 And it's like the most touristy town I've ever been to in my life, maybe. It's like a town.
If a gift shop was a town. Yeah, it's kind of very charming

Speaker 2 in some ways.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 But it had, you know, little rides and and they had an alpine sled.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 2 Saw it, which you like, just get on this little thing and then go down the slide, whatever. So all my friends did it.
And then I did it. And I was so small

Speaker 2 that it wouldn't go.

Speaker 1 Like it was you didn't have enough momentum and inertia and mass to it.

Speaker 2 Was going so slow.

Speaker 2 There's this like in that friend group, this notorious picture of me going down the alpine sled and there's a child behind me right up against me like she went down and was then stuck behind me because i was crawling at a snail's pace oh wow were you embarrassed yes of course yeah and hungover yes sweaty it was probably hot yes it's a lot going on and how's it been back being back how long were you gone in total three weeks almost three weeks and it was unexpected uh uh-huh And the East Coast summer, who knew was going to become a big old East Coast summer and it was great.

Speaker 2 I am really happy to be back. The weather's so nice here.

Speaker 2 And what is it? It's in the 80s, but it's like, it's so nice.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And it gets cool at night.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 It really, the weather really can't be beat.

Speaker 2 So I've just been gallivanting around here. Went to Houston's yesterday.
Delicious.

Speaker 2 Played Mahjong yesterday. I won one out of four games.
And

Speaker 2 yeah, it's been nice. It's been nice to relax.
Oh, I've been watching a lot of TV.

Speaker 2 As I mentioned earlier, I'm re-watching girls because I watched too much Lena's new show on Netflix.

Speaker 2 And I loved it. I loved it.

Speaker 2 So too much. This is, it's kind of a you situation, you, a show on Netflix.

Speaker 1 Yes, yes.

Speaker 2 And it was, it was so good.

Speaker 2 I, I, I cried so much. It gave me so many feelings.

Speaker 2 Um,

Speaker 2 Meg Salter, who's the lead, is incredible. She's so funny.
She's so great. But also Will Sharp, who people might know from season two, White Lotus.

Speaker 2 um he plays aubrey plaza's husband in that show he's in this and he's like

Speaker 2 a revelation. He's so good and so natural and so endearing.

Speaker 2 Oh my God.

Speaker 1 I just is he on the leaderboard for Crushes?

Speaker 2 He's not, he's a huge, yeah, he's on the board. Also, like, Lena is so good at writing

Speaker 2 male characters that are like

Speaker 2 definitely flawed, but you

Speaker 2 really like them and you see their heart. And it's, she's, she's so talented.
She's just so talented.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So anyway, so then I've been re-watching girls and that's been really fun because I realized when I first, when it first came out and I was watching it,

Speaker 2 I always had a little bit of anxiety watching. Like, I didn't love it.
And now that I'm re-watching it, I realize it's because it was like, too close.

Speaker 2 Like they're kind of flailing.

Speaker 1 They're early.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.
And I was flailing at that time. So it was a little like too real.
And now I just think it's hilarious.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, I'm excited to watch the new Lena show.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I can't wait to hear your thoughts on it.

Speaker 1 Want to do some facts? Yeah, let's do it.

Speaker 1 Stay tuned for more armchair expert.

Speaker 1 If you dare,

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Speaker 1 facts for shaq i was trying to make it rhyme is this for shaq yeah it's a very quick turnaround oh okay so rob took some notes shaq's some facts he's big that it is a fact is that the first time you well you saw him on the grid you didn't see him on the grid i wasn't with you there Yeah, you were, but you weren't on the grid.

Speaker 2 I didn't go that day that you guys saw him.

Speaker 1 Oh, really? Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 2 But I've never seen him in person.

Speaker 1 It's overwhelming, right?

Speaker 2 It is. Like, you know, in your head, you're like, yeah, he's so tall.
He's seven feet tall, seven feet tall, whatever.

Speaker 2 It is, it's overwhelming.

Speaker 1 That is the weird thing about height. Yeah.
Because like, the difference between Jess and I is a mere two inches, three inches.

Speaker 1 But it's, it's asymmetric. Once you go above 6'2, it just starts getting exponentially more jaw-dropping.

Speaker 2 I do think, I think it's after six feet. It starts like each inch actually starts making a huge difference.

Speaker 1 Let's put it this way. The gap between you and I is bigger than the gap between Shaq and I.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that makes no sense.

Speaker 1 And doesn't it seem like there's nine inches or no, a foot. So there's 11 inches difference between he and I and there's 13 inches difference.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that makes no sense.

Speaker 1 I know there's something about when you look up, something gets disproportionate. I don't know.

Speaker 2 Because you looked so short.

Speaker 1 Like a joke. Yeah, you look like a little baby man, a little girly baby man.
I almost didn't want to interview him because I didn't want to look.

Speaker 2 No, you want to be small. You want to be held like a little baby, you said.

Speaker 1 He said when he walked in, because I was wearing a sleeveless shirt, he said, you've been hitting the gym. I said, well, I knew you were going to emasculate me.

Speaker 1 So I had to come as swole as I could get.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 No, the thing that got me, because I've A, seen him a few times, chatted with him a few times, and then been picked up by him. Yeah.

Speaker 1 What I had missed on those previous encounters was the size of his hands. Yeah.
Oh, my lord.

Speaker 2 I didn't notice them, which is weird for me because I love hands.

Speaker 1 You're a hands person. Yeah, I like hands.
You're a hands gale.

Speaker 2 I'm a hands. Handsy.
Handsy.

Speaker 1 You're not very handsy, but you're a hands girl.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Like, mixed messages.

Speaker 1 But I do think the most jaw-dropping thing is his hand size. Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's really cool. It is.
And he was fantastic.

Speaker 1 He just has a very sweet soul.

Speaker 2 He does. He has a good, he just has a nice energy.

Speaker 1 Fought a ton in the NBA. Yeah.
Yeah, he's been in all kinds of scrapes.

Speaker 1 He has exactly something.

Speaker 2 He's sweet,

Speaker 2 but he's scarier than I thought. Like for some reason in my idea of him is that, oh, he's just so playful.
He's just so funny and fun and playful.

Speaker 2 You weren't watching a ton of his basketball games you've been seeing his commercials right right and then i watched some of the doc and when i watched the doc i was like oh like oh he's more intense than i thought and then when he was here at the beginning i was i was like i'm intimidated well he could kill you quite easily i know yeah

Speaker 1 it's so if he luckily i've studied his fights and i know how to fight him okay

Speaker 1 i gotta wrestle him because barkley was much smaller than him but barkley immediately went for the knees and was able to get on top of him I mean,

Speaker 1 that would be our Hail Mary pass. If he was trying to kill me, then I could somehow destabilize him and get him on his back like a beetle.
Sure, and then you'd run.

Speaker 1 But you might be

Speaker 2 stuck, you might be stuck under there.

Speaker 1 The second you are out of the picture, I'd be like, I'm so sorry. I was just trying to protect her.
I love you. I would have never fought you.

Speaker 2 He would never hurt me.

Speaker 1 No, he wouldn't.

Speaker 2 Yeah, just icon. It's just one of those

Speaker 2 times where we get to be in the presence of a true legend.

Speaker 1 There are more famous people, but I would argue there's nobody on the planet who would get recognized more.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 1 even if you like pulled, how many people know

Speaker 1 Taylor Swift? Right. And the number was bigger, he would get recognized 40x of what she'd get recognized.

Speaker 2 Exactly. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I actually do think, I mean, I'm sure everyone knows Taylor, I'm sure.

Speaker 2 But Shaq crosses all the lines. Like, you can ask anyone.
Like, I could tell my grandma. Yep.
And she would know, I think.

Speaker 2 I would say, actually, he's probably top five most famous people we've had on this show.

Speaker 1 Oh, for sure.

Speaker 2 Which is incredible.

Speaker 1 Again, Brad Pitt's more famous globally, I'm sure.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 if we followed them around throughout the course of their life. Yeah.
Shaq would be dealing with more attention. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I think they might be.

Speaker 1 Andy Andy has the thing that like comedians have. There's all these tiers of how approachable people are.
Sitcom actors, you've been in their living room. They're funny.

Speaker 1 They seem ultimately approachable. Yeah.
Leonardo DiCaprio, you seem, you are probably nervous to go up to him.

Speaker 2 Movie stars, you're scared to go up to.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they seem, but an athlete.

Speaker 1 Andy's in every commercial and in your living room, all that. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Podcasters are the most approachable.

Speaker 1 And as they should be. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Because they're in your life in a really, really intimate way. They're in your head.

Speaker 1 I do want to express gratitude that we made the Time 100. Let's.
Yes.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.
Yes. Time 100.

Speaker 1 Best podcast of all time.

Speaker 2 Of all time.

Speaker 1 And I did the most embarrassing thing, which was my sweet agent Lance sent me a thing that said, congratulations and a link.

Speaker 1 And then I went to it, top 100. I see two dope queens.
Then I see another show or two, then ours.

Speaker 1 And I was like, oh my God, we're like third or fourth, whatever it was.

Speaker 1 I was like, I couldn't believe it. I was like, this is wrong.
Revisionist history should be number one. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then I realized it was alphabetical. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Which I actually

Speaker 2 liked. I'm so glad they did it that way because

Speaker 2 Yes, also our publicist sent us the article and I went to, I clicked it to read what they said. They said a very nice thing.

Speaker 1 Very nice. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I was like, I don't want to see the number.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 Because it could immediately turn something wonderful into depressing. If you were a hundredth on the list, you'd be embarrassed.
I know. There's 8 million podcasts.

Speaker 2 Exactly. You'd still be embarrassed.

Speaker 1 The mind is not a friendly place.

Speaker 2 The mind really is not. No.
And I, um, so then, but I just like, was kind of like glancing quickly and I was like, oh, I don't see a number. So maybe they didn't do it like that.
And I was glad.

Speaker 2 But I'm really grateful. It's such a nice honor.

Speaker 1 It is.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Okay. So a couple facts.
A couple shacks.

Speaker 1 A couple shacks.

Speaker 2 Okay. So it was Sebastian Manascalco, who's working at the Four Seasons and that he was a great tipper.

Speaker 1 And yeah, he would order a fruit plate in the car. Unexpected.

Speaker 2 And leave a $100 tip.

Speaker 2 How many titles for Jerry West? Oh, and I need to thank Rob for this because Rob took these facts today because he's in a foreign space.

Speaker 1 He's operating gear that's not ours. Yes.

Speaker 2 And he was fact-checking. He had to fact-check because we just did the episode.

Speaker 1 Rob's on a run.

Speaker 2 Okay, Jerry West, whose silhouette is used in the NBA logo, won the 1972 NBA championship with the Lakers as a player and eight additional titles as an executive with the Lakers in Golden State World.

Speaker 1 So I was wrong. I'm glad.
I'm glad I was wrong.

Speaker 2 And he was right.

Speaker 1 He was dead right. Couldn't be happier to be wrong about that.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 The poster for justification for higher education is really funny. It's a huge mansion and like seaside.

Speaker 1 It looks like maybe Malibu or something.

Speaker 2 Yes. It does look like it's California.

Speaker 2 There's like a fancy car in the driveway.

Speaker 1 Let's see if I got the cars right. Turn it around so I can see.
Because I said it was a lamb. I'm not going to look.
I said it was a Lamborghini, a Ferrari, and a Porsche 9-11.

Speaker 1 Coontosh, and I think the Ferrari was a 308.

Speaker 2 Okay, you're going to have to tell me if that's right.

Speaker 1 I have no idea.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 This has been updated. This is not the one we grew up with.

Speaker 1 Because the Z8 didn't even come out till 2006 or something.

Speaker 1 Can I see if I can find it? I just want to see, now I'm dying to know if I'm right. Here it is.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 Well, I'm completely wrong. Oh, I got a 308.
There's a three, there's a Ferrari 308, but then the Porsche is a 928. That's the risky business Porsche.

Speaker 2 Okay, but still a Porsche.

Speaker 1 Yeah, a Corvette. Congrats, Corvette.
I didn't know you made it in there.

Speaker 1 Convertible M3 and then Big Benz.

Speaker 1 So I didn't do so well. Less than half.
Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, that's. They should have put a Lamborghini.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 How are you knowing it based? There's no... Oh, the Mercedes, I guess, has a logo.
Barely. The way this is

Speaker 2 painted out, like, you can't really see.

Speaker 1 Well, they've probably, well, they were definitely in breach of trademark. So yes,

Speaker 1 they've wiped out all the lettering on the back of these.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and you can still tell what they are.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and that Benz is an SL500, I think.

Speaker 2 Is the Benz the third one?

Speaker 1 Yes. Okay.

Speaker 1 And then to the right of that is an 86 convertible Corvette. Okay.
And then, I believe, an M3 BMW convertible.

Speaker 1 And you can kind of maybe see the logo on the M3, the little circle by the

Speaker 1 above the lights. It is.
What's it BMW? Oh.

Speaker 2 What do I know about

Speaker 1 the gymnastics?

Speaker 2 Yo, thank you, Rob.

Speaker 1 Good job, Wall.

Speaker 2 That was nice, Rob. That's weird that you just brought that up.
We were just talking about that in Nashville. I resounded.

Speaker 1 You were telling Eric.

Speaker 2 I was telling Eric and I was able to say the names of the menu. You know, 1997, 1996.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 I got to just show you. It's not as good.
I can't be as fast. Okay.

Speaker 2 Dominique Mochanu, Dominique Dawes, Shannon Miller,

Speaker 2 Amy Chow, Amanda Borden, JC Phelps.

Speaker 1 Gigi Rodriguez.

Speaker 2 No, don't do that.

Speaker 2 Did I already say Dominique Dawes?

Speaker 1 Yeah, you said two Dominiques.

Speaker 2 Yeah, there were two Dominiques. Shannon.
Oh, Carrie Struck. How could I forget?

Speaker 1 The number one.

Speaker 2 I did it.

Speaker 1 Great job. Thank you.
Coached by Bella Lugozzi.

Speaker 2 What's his name? No, Bella Caroly. And Marta Caroly is the wife.
See, I know. Okay, I know.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you're next.

Speaker 2 She, he, they ended up pretty much getting canceled.

Speaker 1 They did. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Because?

Speaker 2 Sexual impropriety or just too hard on them, but also they, they were close with, what's his name?

Speaker 1 Nasser. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Like, he kind of worked for them-ish, like, you know.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Although, hold on. I don't want to do that big of an ish because what I, what I don't like is when

Speaker 1 someone is found guilty of some impropriety and then all of a sudden everyone around them is supposed to know and they're in trouble and they hate those people and all that.

Speaker 1 Like the whole guilty by association thing, I don't love.

Speaker 2 I agree. I don't love that.

Speaker 2 I do think,

Speaker 2 I mean, on all these docs and stuff, like.

Speaker 2 They were just really, for one, they were just really, really, really hard on the girls in a way that was seemingly very innocent.

Speaker 1 Ding, ding, ding. Shaq.
Shaq. Because they were successful, right?

Speaker 2 They were successful. But they came, you know, they came from Romania.
Yeah. They, um, they coached Nadia.

Speaker 2 Tomaniach. Yeah, exactly.
Good job. Thank you.
Do you want to? Mary Lou Retton.

Speaker 1 Oh, I love Mary Lou. She was in a Ding Ding Ding 1984 Corvette Red in the McDonald's ad.
And in the back, the license plate said Mary Lou.

Speaker 2 The way all this is tying together.

Speaker 1 Maybe I died in that airplane

Speaker 1 disaster.

Speaker 2 Mary Lou, I think also maybe coached by them. And so they had this reputation.

Speaker 2 But I think it was, it was too much.

Speaker 1 Although a great counter to this is, and this is on topic,

Speaker 1 all these players get all this credit for these championships, Jordan, so-and-so.

Speaker 1 The real champion of all time

Speaker 1 is Phil Jackson.

Speaker 2 I know.

Speaker 1 He has minimally nine between those two teams. I don't know if he has more.
Yep. And he was not a blowhard yeller.
He was a Buddhist.

Speaker 1 He was given, he gave Shaq a Nietzsche book to read.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I know. I love that.

Speaker 1 I love that.

Speaker 1 13.

Speaker 2 13.

Speaker 1 She was a player 11. Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 When I was watching

Speaker 2 the Shaq doc, and we got to the point of

Speaker 1 Phil Jackson, which I don't know much about.

Speaker 2 I mean, I know of him, but I was like, from the world.

Speaker 1 Well, and

Speaker 1 last dance. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But I was like, okay, this runs the risk of sounding like so egotistical. And I don't, I, I, I, I don't mean it like this, but I was like, I think,

Speaker 2 I think I

Speaker 2 in this life

Speaker 2 am not

Speaker 2 a Shaq or a Jordan or a

Speaker 2 Kobe.

Speaker 2 I feel like

Speaker 2 I'm more of a Phil Jackson. Like I, I'm a part of big things and I think I'm important,

Speaker 2 a very important part of big things. Circle.
Yes, but I'm not at the center. And I'm kind of guiding it

Speaker 2 sort of in the back.

Speaker 1 I don't identify with any of them. Okay.
Like, I've just not been a big winner. Sure.
I just.

Speaker 2 What do you mean? You're a winner now.

Speaker 1 Now in this space. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And so if I had

Speaker 1 to pick, it would probably be Shaquille because

Speaker 1 he tried hard, but he didn't try as hard as Kobe or

Speaker 1 like Phil said in the doc,

Speaker 1 Shaq was great, but he should have won 10.

Speaker 1 I don't have that opinion, but

Speaker 1 and and I'm more like Shaq. Like four is awesome.
That's more than I intended.

Speaker 2 Yep.

Speaker 1 Totally. And I don't want to be miserable for any goal.
I don't have that constitution. I'm not that hard of a worker.
Yeah. Or I'm not that.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I just don't have the desire to suffer for something. Yeah.
As much.

Speaker 2 I can see that about you. If I'm not him, I don't know enough about basketball players, but

Speaker 2 who's a basketball player?

Speaker 2 Well, I guess Shaq was not supposed to be good and then he was good. I kind of connect with that type of thing, but I am

Speaker 2 there to win and not

Speaker 1 win and suffer and i'll do i i yeah victory is the most important yeah yeah yeah i don't have that yeah

Speaker 1 i have like the in the moment competitive nature where it's like if i'm on a motorcycle track or i'm in a corner in a car i'll go for it yeah i don't want to be bested in that moment but if i was competitive and what's that you're competitive i'm very competitive yeah but i'm going out in denver if we're playing there the night before right

Speaker 1 i'm gonna have fun. I'm going to stay out late.
Yeah. I'm going to wake up late.
I'm going to go to the game and do the best I can.

Speaker 1 My natural buildings pull me through. But I'm not.
Yeah, I don't. Uh-uh.

Speaker 2 I don't think that's true. I don't think that's true because

Speaker 2 you

Speaker 2 hear in this space and podcasting, if we have a big interview or something the next day, you're not like,

Speaker 2 I'm going out all night long.

Speaker 1 But I'm also 50. Yeah.
Right. So yeah, yesterday I was in New York all day long.
I didn't do one thing other than research shack all day long. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 That part's true, but again, I'm 50.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you mean when you were younger?

Speaker 1 When I was, yeah, and these dudes are all 20-year-olds.

Speaker 2 You know, it's ironic. I feel like I'm, it's swapping.

Speaker 1 You're learning to have more fun and be looser.

Speaker 2 I'm learning to be able, I'm learning that I can do both.

Speaker 2 That you don't have to, it be this solo mission.

Speaker 1 Exactly. Yeah.
yeah. Well, it's like learning.
Well, I think that's accrued through experience.

Speaker 1 You do start to rely on yourself a little bit more, you have more confidence in yourself, yeah, yeah, definitely, yeah.

Speaker 1 And that's what's funny: both things are happening. Like, I'm sure the interview would have been just as good if I just showed up.

Speaker 1 Like, I probably know enough about Sheck to have gotten through it, and then in some way, it might have been a different version of it. Yeah, but I, yeah, I just wanted to have all the entire story.

Speaker 1 I also do,

Speaker 2 I think part of what

Speaker 2 this show benefits from is your research. Like you,

Speaker 2 not everyone does. I mean, I think a lot of people do research, but you're so smart that I feel like

Speaker 2 you're giving something. Your research is benefiting you and you're processing it in a way that a lot of other people can't do.

Speaker 2 And so you just showing up would be great, but it wouldn't be its highest potential without you applying your brain to the research.

Speaker 1 Yeah, what happens in the research is a red herring.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 The research is during the research, I go, oh, wow, he has the same relationship with his mom as I do. Right, right.

Speaker 1 It's not really about when he got to the NBA or what round he got drafted, but just like throughout, and then it's like, oh, wow. Now here's something completely different between he and I.

Speaker 1 He really responds to a very authoritative presence in his life. And I, I don't at all.
I'm bad at that.

Speaker 1 So those things,

Speaker 1 the research is like,

Speaker 1 I don't know how to get to the real thing I care about without it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but I think you are able to do a weaving. I mean, that's like, I don't do research.
So I'm sitting there doing, I think, what maybe a lot of other people do,

Speaker 1 which is real-time curiosity. Real-time curiosity, which I'm glad we had that.
Yes. But

Speaker 2 I think we need, I think the show is good because there's some structure and yeah well thank you you're welcome um okay titles after kobe

Speaker 2 and shaq okay so shaq won nba championship without kobe 2006 uh kobe two two championships without shaq 2009 2010 and then together they had three yeah that's nice they could have gotten they could have gotten seven or eight they were so

Speaker 1 good um that's so sad. What's interesting is the research took me down all these Kobe rabbit holes.
I just couldn't kind of resist. It was like I would learn that chat got four.

Speaker 1 And I'm like, how many did Kobe get? Did he get? I know Jordan gets sick. Did Jordan get sick? I'm just starting looking up all these other things.
And then I found myself in this

Speaker 1 rabbit hole of Kobe. He fucking scored 81 points in a game.
Like the only Will Chamberlain scored 100, but he was literally a foot taller than everyone back then. He was so much stronger.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 He scored 81 in multiple games over 60 plus. And I mean, unbelievable.

Speaker 2 Um, okay, restaurant. Oh, the businesses that Shaq owns.
Okay, Big Chicken, Papa John's. He owns, he owns locations, and he's, he was a brand ambassador at Papa John's Crispy Cream, Five Guys,

Speaker 2 24 Hour Fitness. Oh, he owns some of those.

Speaker 1 40 of them, I think.

Speaker 2 40 in the Atlanta area.

Speaker 2 Authentic Brands Group, JC Penny, Forever 21 Reebok, and 150 car washes.

Speaker 1 Wow. He has

Speaker 1 a ridiculous story. I don't know where I heard it.
I've watched every document, every podcast he's been in in the last five years, but

Speaker 1 he owned all these car washes.

Speaker 1 And his business manager called him and said,

Speaker 1 we're missing $250,000.

Speaker 1 Like, we're light on the PL statement. Like, someone is embezzled.
And he's like, oh, no, I have all the quarters in my vault.

Speaker 1 He would go collect all the quarters and like pillowcases and stuff and just bring them to his house and put them in his safe. Oh, man.
And he had $250,000 in quarters that were just sitting there.

Speaker 1 Quarters. And they're like, okay, well, that's where the money's going to be.
Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 What an interesting man.

Speaker 1 That's 1 million quarters. I just did the math.
Four times two. Good fast man.
Really easy, you fast man.

Speaker 2 Well, I

Speaker 2 really, really enjoyed that.

Speaker 1 Me too. I'm glad we got to do it.

Speaker 2 I'm glad your plane didn't crash and we got to do it.

Speaker 1 Me too. All blessings to Shaq.
What a sweetie pie. Yeah.
That's it. All right.
Okay, love you. Love you.

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