Armchair Anonymous: Substitute Teacher

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Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Anonymous.

I'm Dan Rather, and I'm joined by Marla Maples.

Who's Marla Maples?

That was a person.

Yeah, I don't know if that's her name.

I don't think it's correct.

Well, this episode's about her, so I hope it's correct.

This episode is about Marla Maples.

Where is she now?

A girl from Naples, shockingly.

Yeah, that is very confusing.

It's confusing and convenient.

It is.

No, today is substitute teachers, which we just want to give an extra shout out.

This one's tricky because at the same time, I recognize it's the hardest of the hard jobs.

Yes.

It's impossible to wrangle all those brats.

It's hard enough to be a teacher.

Yes, exactly.

Where you have to establish trust.

Then you're trying to wrangle 35 nuts.

But then you come in for a day and nobody likes you or trusts you.

Everyone knows it's time to fuck with you and do whatever you want.

Oh my God.

Now

my own baggage is.

I've certainly deserved it, but substitutes hated me, I think.

I had a lot of dust-ups with substitutes.

Oh, I'm shocked by this information.

I can't even believe it.

I'm the worst.

Really am in reflection.

It's not great.

Okay, please buckle the fuck up and stay tuned for substitute teachers.

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Hi.

Hello.

Is this Natasha?

Yes.

Where are you, Natasha?

I am in Indiana, and I'm also underneath my son's loft bed right now.

Oh, wonderful.

What part of Indiana?

I'm in Bloomington.

I don't know Bloomington.

Thank God.

That's where IU is.

Oh, IU.

Oh, and then you just did a signal.

The signal for IU is...

The IU.

Oh, you do too.

You go.

That's cute.

Okay, now, Natasha, are you the victim of a substitute teacher?

Are you a substitute teacher victim?

I'm a substitute teacher victim.

Oh, I'm so sorry.

This is a public service announcement, really.

So I'm going to take you guys back to 2012.

I'm in college.

And my mom has been working at an elementary school for many years, even back to the point where I went to elementary school.

So I know all of the teachers and the principal and everybody's like, you would be a great substitute teacher.

We could probably fill your days without even having to go to a different school.

And I was like, that sounds great.

Easy because I know everyone.

I get through most of the year and I am able to just sub at that school.

But I did.

decide one day to take a half day job at another school.

I thought that it would be okay.

I had a cousin who worked there.

I let her know like, I'm going to be in Mrs.

Smith's class tomorrow.

And she didn't respond, but I was like, no big deal.

So I get to school the next day, and it's pretty chaotic in the morning.

What grade?

It's third grade.

Things are wild in an elementary school office in the morning because parents are calling in and they're trying to figure out like what's going on.

So the administrative assistant was just like, hey, why don't you head down to Mrs.

Smith's room and someone will be down to introduce themselves.

And I'm like, okay, sounds good.

So I get there and this gentleman comes in and he's like, hi, I'm Mr.

Jones and I'm the discipline administrator.

We didn't have a discipline administrator at the other school I'd been subbing at and it was similarly sized and it had the same layout, all these things.

So I'm like a little bit of a red flag, but I'm going to let it go.

He's like, it's really nice to meet you.

If you need anything today, feel free to give me a call.

I'm happy to help.

And my mom told me from the jump, do not call the principal to your classroom because if you do, they're going to be like, she can't manage this whole thing.

Oh, yeah, shit.

I was just like, I don't usually call, but it's really nice to meet you.

So he leaves and then my cousin comes in and she's got like this giant Dr.

Pepper and a chocolate donut.

And she's like, hey, I got you a treat.

And I was like, okay.

And she's like, you're going to need it.

This is a wild class.

Oh, no.

I was scared, but also a little annoyed because she's my older cousin.

I've been subbing in quote unquote the worst class at this other school for a while.

Okay, you felt it was condescending, a little bit patronizing.

I was overly confident.

So the kids come in and they're a little bit wild.

That's normal because, you know, it's substitute teacher day and everybody's like,

Yeah, time to party.

Yeah.

And I see Mr.

Jones walking in the hallway a little and he's kind of checking in.

I'm like, okay, whatever.

But I'm able to wrangle everybody to their desks and I start calling Roll.

And I see out of the corner of my eye, there's this kid and he just has the most mischievous look on his face.

And I'm like, he's about to do something, Henri.

But before I can even say anything, he reaches behind himself and grabs grabs the teacher's stapler from her craft table and he starts stapling everything he's stapling his shirt sleeves he staples his shirt to his pants no he staples his neighbor's shirt he's stapling papers and i'm like put the stapler down i'm trying to diffuse the situation with words he just thinks it's hilarious the class is losing it a little bit how old are you at this moment 21.

Also, what an interesting, I've never even thought about chaos by stapler.

Well, he had been eyeing that stapler the whole year going if my teacher calls in sick even a single day i'm gonna staple this whole fucking place up this place is going to the ground well i walk toward him to take the stapler and he jumps onto the desk oh my god do you guys know the pete pablo song raise up yeah so he's like north carolina yeah come on and raise up take your shirt off twist around your head like a helicopter okay he rips the shirt that he just stapled to his pants,

takes it off, and he's reenacting this whole thing, swinging the shirt around his head like a helicopter as they say oh

screaming the lyrics everybody's losing it in the classroom it erupts some of them are scared they're gonna get in trouble obviously that would have been me in school i would be like please everybody sit down me too be nice to miss natasha she's having a hard time i wouldn't have been like everyone sit down i would have looked at you and been like i know oh right i know i'm an adult too these idiot children have to deal with them all day yeah yeah yeah yeah you'll get to leave today but i'll be stuck with them.

Yeah, so I realized I'm in over my head.

I'm walking toward him to try and help him get down from the desk.

He's opened the stapler at this point, too, and is like stapling at me.

So he jumps down and he starts moving desks and chairs, pushing them over.

So there's like an obstacle course for me.

He's bobbing.

I'm weaving.

I had three hours of substitute teacher training before we got started.

Three.

Yeah.

I'm like, I need to call Mr.

Jones, but he's running towards the phone.

Thankfully, the door opens and Mr.

Jones walks in.

He's like, hey, I heard things were getting a little wild down here.

And he just got the sentence out and the kid starts running towards him.

And I'm like, okay.

And I realize immediately that he has had more than three hours of substitute teacher training because he knew exactly what to do.

He like scooped him up.

Probably not allowed to do that in 2025, or maybe you are.

I was not allowed to do that in 2012, but I think he was allowed to.

I guarantee if someone is a danger to themselves or others, yes, you can probably intervene.

So he carries him out of the classroom.

I'm able to get everybody else under control.

What if you just heard blood-curdling screaming when the doors shut and smashing against lockers and fists on head?

Yeah.

I was so thankful that that half day was over.

I never subbed there on purpose again.

On purpose?

Does that mean you still had to?

I did.

So they shared music teachers and I didn't know that.

And I was subbing whole day for a music teacher, but she was half day at one school and half day at another.

No.

So I ended up there.

I did not have to call Mr.

Jones that day.

No staplers were involved.

And I went to the office and the administrative coordinator, when I was leaving, was like, I heard you had a hard day.

She was so sweet.

She was like, I wish we had gift cards to give to people.

Oh.

Sometimes the days are hard, but then she panics and she's like, You have a necklace on, but no earrings.

Did you come here with earrings?

Oh.

And I was like, no.

And she was like, oh, okay, okay.

Oh, my God.

She knew to scan for stolen jewelry.

You weren't wearing a watch or anything when you came in.

You still have your car keys and your wallet still in your pocket.

Okay, then you're good to leave.

Also, to assume that just because you're wearing a necklace, you must be wearing earrings is very funny.

Very 2012.

Textbook 20, 2012.

Wow.

Wow.

And did you act like everything had gone perfectly to your cousin since she had condescended to you?

No, I mean, she's there too all day.

So obviously, like, I'm sure it was the talk of the teacher's lounge at lunch.

I got out of there.

I was like, I'm not even staying.

Yeah.

That place sucks.

Yeah, when you drive away from a school that you've subbed at and you're leaving the parking lot and you know you're never coming back, does it feel like leaving a boyfriend's house you've broken up with and you're just so happy to get out of there?

Or like something you've set on fire and you're just driving away from?

Yeah.

So that was 13 years ago.

Are you currently a teacher?

I am not a teacher.

I'm a divorce mediator.

So things get different too.

Yeah.

You could still benefit from that coordinator.

Divorce lawyer is a great prompt.

Oh, yeah.

Crazy divorce and maybe divorce lawyer.

That's good.

Yeah, I'll connect it.

You must have a million stories.

Yeah.

Sometimes when people come to me, they've got stuff figured out, but the court can also order people to go to mediation.

That's when things get as crazy as swinging your shirt around.

Is it jaded your sense of romance?

No, but I will say I actually went through a divorce that was mediated.

So that's what drew me to the whole thing.

But I feel like now maybe I would pre-mediate before I got married again.

Yes.

That's smart.

I've heard pre-nups pitched in a way that's interesting in that same regard, which is like, you have the opportunity to negotiate a settlement when you both like each other or when you both hate each other.

What would you like to do?

And it's like, well, when you phrase it that way, that makes a lot more sense.

That's the spin for sure.

Right now we love each other and we don't want to hurt each other.

So let's do it today.

Let's form all of our contracts now.

That's very smart.

Well, Natasha, this has been a delight.

I'm sorry you had that experience, but also I'm happy you had that experience.

I kind of love the visual of just someone staple fucking everything.

Tossing chairs around and running, a little light jumping.

Well, thanks for chatting with us.

Thank you guys.

And also, I just have to tell you, I'm a day one arm cherry.

I heard Dax on Unqualified when you were talking about the podcast.

So I've been listening to you.

Wow.

I also have to say that at our house, if Dax and Monica don't suggest it, I don't participate.

So if anybody wants me to like watch a movie or listen to music or whatever, I'm like, well, I don't know.

We'll have to see if it's on the podcast coming up.

Oh, my God.

Your house hates us so much.

They're like, could we get a direct line to Dax and Monica?

Cause we want to go to the movies.

Well, then we've got great recs.

Last night we watched What Lies Beneath per Monica's suggestion.

And guess what?

It was great.

Because we're on a lake and I wanted it to feel spooky and it did.

Yeah, 25 years old, but it had some tense.

There's a lot of jump outs.

Yeah.

All right.

Take care.

Have a great rest of your summer.

Thanks.

You too.

Bye, Natasha.

Hi.

You look AI.

You do.

And you also look like Anne Hathaway.

You look like if they animated Ann Hathaway to be a Disney character.

Thank you.

What fake name should we use?

Anyone.

And for Anne Hathaway.

Or we could call you Hathaway.

I have to use a fake name because I'm still in school in the district.

I think I'm your first teenage arm cherry.

Oh my gosh.

That's why you look AI.

You're so useful.

I'm looking for like flaws in your face and there just aren't any.

Oh my God.

I'm so glad you told us.

How old are are you?

I'm 15.

15.

Oh my God.

You're definitely our youngest colleague.

This is so sweet.

Are you old enough to know Anne Hathaway?

Yeah, I've actually gotten that once or twice before.

Okay, okay, okay.

You're hip to that.

Okay, so Anne, you have a substitute teacher story.

Yeah, so I'm going to set the stage a little bit.

My elementary school was slightly chaotic in terms of faculty.

So if you know the situation with the defense against the dark arts teacher in Harry Potter, it was kind of like that, but for principals.

So they were constantly changing.

I was there for around two and a half years because of COVID, and there were four or five principals.

Wow.

The principal that was there at the time of my story was there for only half a year because a different guy was there and he left and she was using it as a stepping stone for a promotion.

So this takes place when I was in third grade.

So I was around nine, as well as my classmates.

And my teacher was out and obviously there was a sub.

We'll call him Mr.

S.

Right away when I walk in.

I get really weird vibes from this guy.

Oh, wow.

He's pretty young.

I was little, so everyone seems old.

But I think he was right out of school or maybe taking classes, but in his early 20s, probably.

But he's immediately angry, glaring at everyone who walks in.

And my class wasn't too terrible for eight and nine-year-olds.

You know, we talked a little bit.

I was always one of those kids who was really stuck up about the rules and never got in trouble and was silent.

Prefer to sit at the front of the classroom and stuff.

Oh yeah.

Monty, did you sit at the front of the classroom?

I think we had signed seats, but yeah, I would have.

I went straight to the back, last row, furthest corner.

So interesting.

I know.

Isn't it funny these archetypes?

He's immediately snapping at kids if they're asking anything.

He was even yelling at me and I know I wasn't doing anything wrong.

So I was about to cry throughout the whole day because he's just screaming at kids.

After a couple hours of this through math and writing and the blissful period where we leave for lunch and recess, we had rug time.

It's where everyone would gather on the rug, and the teacher would read us our book.

And at the time, we were reading The Wild Robot, and we loved that book.

So, everyone was super good during that time.

Everyone was silent, made sure we were silent because we wanted to get through the book.

So, we all gather on the rug, and Mr.

S grabs the book, still glaring at every one of us.

And he opens it and then yells at us to be quiet.

And I remember this so clearly that not a single person was talking.

Oh, wow.

He just screamed, be quiet.

No one was making a peep.

Or he would scream, like, shut up.

Oh, my God.

Very harsh.

Was he inordinately muscular?

Because maybe he was like him.

He was a harsh, grawny guy.

Oh, okay.

He was angry about his slight build.

Oh, okay.

We have to label him either a meathead, an incel.

Just looking back, maybe it's like incel five.

I saw yes.

Yeah, yes.

Anyway, so he reads the first line of the chapter.

And at the same time, a girl in the back of the rug whispers one word to the girl next to her and mr s immediately slams the book closed and starts freaking out on us he began screaming and cursing us out oh my god most of the words our nine-year-old selves did not know how far did he go did he drop any f bombs oh yeah oh my god and did he say like the c word i definitely wouldn't remember that okay okay because i wouldn't have known it these words i've heard like bitch oh yeah okay god this guy's unhinged He was crazy.

Half the class begins crying and he starts screaming at us.

Stop crying.

You're being babies.

Stop crying.

You're being loud and annoying.

Oh, he's lost control of himself and now the classroom.

Then he suddenly goes around to all the windows and shuts all the blinds, shuts off the lights, closes the door, shuts like the little window and the door and makes us sit silently in the dark for what felt like hours, but I think looking back, it was like 30 to 40 minutes, which is still really long for little kids.

Yeah, that's an eternity.

Very sick.

Yeah, he's having a mental collapse.

Yeah.

Also, do you think he was like, I need 40 minutes of darkness to regulate?

No, I don't think he's smart enough to know he needs to regulate.

Okay.

He threatens us if you talk, you're ruining the principal.

I'd be like, get me to the principal.

But principal was the end of the world if you're going there for getting in trouble for us.

They were like, we don't want to go to the principal.

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Once he thought we had been punished enough, he turns all the lights back on and we begin social studies.

But it wasn't like the history social studies.

It was this book and on lessons on being nice and empathy, which he could have taken some time.

Yeah, that's an ironic twist of content.

Maybe he was trying to teach irony.

Oh, that could have been the whole day was mapped out.

He's like, I know I got this book at 2 p.m.

I'm reading about forgiveness and empathy.

There was questions in the book and it had a little to do with history and stuff, but not really.

And I so vividly remember this book because it had like creepy looking cartoon animals on it and no one had seen it before.

So everyone was really confused.

And so we're all asking questions.

And he's getting really mad at us asking questions saying you should know this.

Your teacher left this for you.

So you should know how to do it.

This is okay that you don't know this.

So, my friend Luca

was really confused.

So, he asks some questions about it.

Pretty standard questions, like, oh, I don't know how to do this, and was getting yelled at in response, of course.

So, at the third question, Mr.

S hits his breaking point.

He screams at him, saying, You can't just ask stupid fucking questions.

Oh my God.

Storms over to him.

So, Luca, fun fact about him, he had a broken arm from a skiing accident.

Oh, no.

So, he's got a cast on?

Yeah.

Mr.

S grabs him by the broken arm and drags him out of the classroom

and takes him to a storage closet and throws him in there.

This is so crazy.

He said, You're not allowed to leave this room until you finish this spelling test.

Is this guy not considering this is his last day of work?

Or does he know that?

Could he be behaving this way and and think that's not going to get back to anybody?

He, I think, is mentally very unbelievable.

Okay, the weird thing about that is I think it was his first day because you start to know the subs.

My school is pretty small, and this wasn't one of the regular ones.

Sounds like they pulled a guy out of the back of a cab.

The back of a police car.

Yeah, that too.

Paddy wagon.

Meanwhile, we're still in the classroom.

Half the kids are sobbing.

I was on that half.

And the other half are conspiring to like leave the classroom and go get help, find a teacher and stuff.

Good.

because mr s wasn't letting us go to the bathroom he wouldn't let us leave or anything to go be like hey we got a crazy sub so two kids decide to be the ones to risk it and bolts to the principal's office to report it yes good for them heroes they probably have adhd

mr s comes back to the classroom and we finish out the day luca obviously is like i'm not going to sit in this closet also goes to the principal's office and be like this guy just took me into a closet.

Great.

So, the craziest part about all of this is that the entire incident was blamed on the kids.

The next day, the teacher sat us down with the principal and said, Look, what he did was unexcusable, but this is all your fault.

You shouldn't have been terrible kids.

You pushed him to it.

You were talking, and that's why he was yelling at you, hinting it completely on us.

This was probably the first time I was like, Adults are wrong.

Yeah.

Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yes, this is a huge moment.

Yeah, your worldview shifts a little bit.

Oh, they don't know everything.

But let me ask you a quick question.

Was any of the classmates standing on their desk with their shirt off and a stapler in their hand and waving their shirt over the head?

Because what if this was the same third grade class that our previous caller warned us about?

And maybe she's full of shit.

No, she's not.

Don't say the S word of her.

And that class was completely unhinged and this guy had an appropriate reaction.

You know what?

It's still not an appropriate reaction.

It's not inappropriate.

You're absolutely right.

No, but our previous caller had a kid on the desk with his shirt off.

Stapling everything in sight.

Oh gosh.

Did you ever see this guy returned?

So he did get fired.

Oh.

Okay.

But no email went out to parents.

Only Luca's parents got an email about this because they were called in.

The parents only heard it from the kids.

They had no idea from administration.

And the reason I talked about the principal at the beginning is because I believe she didn't want it pinned on her for a bad hire because she was trying to get the promotion.

Oh, boy.

That makes sense.

A little cover-up.

Ooh, there's so many dynamics in a workplace.

One dynamic that just hit me, Monica, was because you're so clearly not nine years old, this story does feel like a long time ago, but this is only six years ago.

I had the exact thought.

You're doing it.

I can't believe this was so recent.

It sounds like a story from the 80s.

Yeah.

None of us had like phones or anything, so we couldn't do anything about it.

Can you imagine your kid coming home and being like, so we had a sub and they turned off the lights and locked the door?

Said fuck about a dozen times, called a few of us bitches.

If you'd find his address and kill him.

Yeah, yeah, that would not be good.

I mean, that's truly traumatic.

Yeah.

That is wild.

I'm sorry that happened.

It's the right amount of trauma, though, I'll say.

It's good to be in like a trial situation where it's like you're uncomfortable.

It's going on.

You feel trapped.

You regret how you behaved a little bit.

You have a different game plan for when the stakes are higher.

It's not bad.

I don't want it for anyone.

But it's a little like waterboarding, psychological game.

Like throwing him in the storage closet and giving him a spelling test, and he's nine.

Like, this is wild.

I'm still friends with him.

It's like his favorite story to tell people: the crazy sub threw me in the closet.

Yeah.

I listen to you guys literally all the time.

High school's high school, so lots of anxiety and all the craziness.

So your podcast really helps me calm down.

And people are listening to music.

I'm like, I'm listening to Daxon Monaco.

Oh,

you are so special.

Please convert your entire high school.

Yeah, we'd love a new young base.

Okay, great.

All right.

Take care.

Have a great rest of your summer.

You too.

That was so sweet.

It was really sweet.

I can't believe we have a 15-year-old who is independent enough to be like, I'm writing in.

I only believe it because of going to Lincoln school that time and staying in line for a hamburger.

And I was talking a lot with the hamburger chef.

And this 13-year-old girl turned and looked at me and she goes, hey, wait, do you have a show called Armchair Anonymous?

I never heard my name.

And I was like, this is awesome.

Yeah.

She didn't know anything.

And she's listening to the show.

It's hard at that age to be like, I'm writing into a show and I'm going to go talk.

That's very, very cool.

Yes, I agree.

I bet she's going to work at Vogue.

And first she's going to go work at Vogue and like have drabby clothes.

You're hung up on the Ann Hathaway fake name, I think.

And then she's going to date Jagers.

No, Ann Hathaway never dated Jagers.

In the crazy drug movie, like the pharmaceutical sales reps.

Oh, my God.

yeah that's right i forgot about that show a little stint with jagers our guests left that was here oh oh fuck oh she's back she wants to go by marla are you lying no you're not lying not lying marla maples oh my god

that's weird that's so

i saw it i must have saw it i was holding the piece of paper i bet that's where i got it i don't know dax okay

hello is this quote marla this is Marla.

Okay, so this is a fake name, and you have selected it.

Please tell me more.

I chose it because it's a reference from one of my favorite movies.

And you might find out later because another character in this story also has the name that's connected to it.

Okay, great.

It's kind of a riddle too.

Yeah, it's a story and a riddle.

This is two for one.

I love it.

There's a lot of two-for-ones, actually.

This story has to do with two prompts combined: student teaching and stalker.

Oh my God.

Great.

Amazing.

Let's hear it.

Okay, let's hear it, Marlow.

This happened about 20 years ago.

I graduated mid-year from college.

I had to get a student teaching job before I could get my next job.

And so the first day ever student teaching, they sent me to a middle school behavior disorder emotionally disturbed classroom.

And now they call them like social-emotional therapy classrooms.

So this is like jump in headfirst kind of thing.

I asked a kid in the class if he wanted to play a game and he just stares me in the eyes and he stabs a pencil right through his hand

and is like just looking at me and he's bleeding and doesn't say a word.

Oh my god.

He stabs himself immediately in the hand while staring at you in the eyes.

Because I asked him to play a game.

He was like, this is my idea of a game.

A game killed my dad and now it's gonna kill my hand.

Oh wow.

I am kind of stunned and don't know what to do, but that emotionless stare with his head down doesn't say a word.

He does that this whole entire time that I'm there.

And so I obviously handled the situation pretty good because they asked me to come back for a month in that classroom.

Stop.

So, really quick, when the kid stabs himself with the pencil, I presume you call down to the principal's office or you walk him down.

What?

He's the first aid, the nurse.

I took him down to the nurse, and we had put something on him as we walked down.

And then they took care of it.

They kind of seemed like he does this stuff.

This is upsetting.

Then I'm back in the classroom for a month.

During that month, I find out that that pencil-stabbing kid, I'm going to call him Tyler.

So my name is Marla.

His name's Tyler.

Have you guys figured it out yet?

Marla and Tyler.

It's It's not Marley and me.

He's a fight club.

He had disassociative identity disorder.

Oh my God, Rob got it.

So I find out that school year that Tyler has at home burnt his mattress and almost burnt his house down.

And this is the kicker.

He killed the neighbor's dog that year.

This is some real sociopathy.

Yeah, disassociative identity disorder along with other mental illnesses.

He and I actually made a pretty quick connection, even though he really didn't talk to me very much.

He kind of just gave me that look all the time, that same look.

We didn't really have any other problems that year with that kid.

Eventually, it ends up at the end of that month, I leave the classroom.

I move on with my regular life and teaching, but I do hear about him throughout the years.

And when he was 17, he stabbed his dad four times.

He did not kill his dad, but that did get him sent to a mental health juvenile detention facility out east.

So I thought at that point, everything was over.

He's out east.

I won't hear much more.

Well, 10 years later, I'm in a tanning salon because that was the rage back then.

And I know better now.

Sure, sure, sure.

And he's now 27.

10 years from when I was in his class.

So he's now 20, 21, 22, somewhere around there.

Okay, great.

So 10 years later, I'm in a tanning salon.

I walk out of the tanning room and I literally smack right into a younger 20-year-old-ish guy.

And I say, sorry.

And he's just staring at me blankly out of the top of his eyes.

No, ew.

Oh my God, this is a horror movie.

And he says, I know you.

You're Marla.

And he says it like three times.

I know you, Marla, you're Marla.

And he kind of like just stares at me and doesn't say anything else.

My gut sinks because obviously I immediately know who this person is because I cannot forget that stare.

I'm starting to get nervous and I think the person that was working there could tell that I was nervous and uncomfortable.

So she says, sir, Sir, do you need a tanning booth?

Because I thought you knew this young lady, which I loved her calling me young lady because I was not at that time.

She's like, I thought you knew this young lady.

You've been waiting outside her tanning room for 15 minutes.

So then I'm starting to go, okay,

did he follow me here?

Did he just see me walk in?

How does he know?

And the part that really bothered me was, how did he know my first name?

Because teachers go by their last name.

And then I don't really remember much after that because my mind was kind of racing through all those questions.

I just hop in my car really quick, lock the doors, call my mom.

I do get home safe, but I'm obviously rattled.

What was that encounter?

Because I could tell he was not mentally

right

in that state.

Otherwise, I'm all about saying hi and talking to my former students.

So basically, I thought getting home, being rattled was the end of my story.

But I did some research and apparently he is back in our hometown, which I still live in.

And it was posted on social media that he is window peeping and stalking people and that he is off his meds and please don't give him any alcohol off his meds.

This is not good.

There's a chance that my story isn't over.

I hope it is.

Oh my god, Marla.

I don't like this story at all.

Can you tell the police?

Now it's 10 years past that time.

Now it's been 20 years almost.

And I haven't seen him again.

And I don't even know if that was just, he remembered me then.

You know, I don't know.

But we don't even know how he found you.

I hate to be morbid, but I do think you just got to tell them like, hey, this happened.

In the event something happens to me.

Right.

This is likely this.

Probably.

I think that's not a terrible idea.

And then maybe they'll patrol more around you or something.

As we've interviewed a lot of stalker victims, the more incidents that have been documented, the better off you are.

You do this once like, hey, this is nothing, but I do want there to be some paper trail of this.

And then you see him again at the grocery store.

He says something a little bit weirder.

You go in and you go, hey, does another thing happen?

I would imagine, hopefully you're getting to a point where you could probably get a a restraining order.

Yeah, exactly.

Did feel a little nervous.

The more things that are documented, probably the better.

I was just like, oh, it's just one little incident.

But you're right.

Like, it could be one little incident leads to another little incident.

A huge incident.

And I mean, his history is probably enough.

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It brings up some a lot of new thoughts for me.

One is, I guess I never considered the notion that you can be very impactful as a teacher on somebody in a very interesting time.

It can be more impactful for them in a way that you maybe not be aware of.

That's an interesting part of it.

In great ways.

Yeah, in great ways.

And then probably

in equal measure on the other side of it.

And then the next thing I was thinking is just, it is so rough that there's 7 billion of us and there's going to be some people who are dangerous.

And it's not their fault i'm not angry at them i feel bad and compassionate for them and also what do we do there's so many stories like all the signs were there for a very long time i don't know what we can do about that we gotta figure out something or is it just the reality of life on planet earth no i don't think it can be a reality that it's clear he's gonna kill someone and we're just like i guess he's gonna kill someone we should be able to have a plan in place that's what i'm nervous about too you know i'm a big mental health advocate i am on some meds myself as well for certain things.

And I'm very much about going to therapy and about getting the help that you need.

And I do just worry about people who are possibly going to have their insurance taken away or Medicaid or Medicare.

If they don't have that, what do they have?

Yeah, exactly.

Because that is their path is to harm somebody.

And I would never want to see that with a former student or anybody else.

The whole situation is really sad that he's off his meds and he's not getting the help and he deserves that help.

And if he did harm someone, he would find himself in a situation where he could get therapy.

You're right.

That's the irony of it.

Do you think there's like a way potentially for some people at that high risk of causing harm that it's illegal for him to be off his medication?

Can that start happening?

This is why all these philosophical conversations are hard and important, which is you're trying to preserve the liberty of the 99.99% of people who aren't a threat to anyone.

And you can't really have laws that are only for this 0.01%.

They have to apply to everyone.

So you're in this very tricky situation where you either have to open up the door to take away a ton of people's liberty who do not deserve, like saying that the government can tell you what medication you have to take, that's a crazy road to enter onto.

And then you got to have a category that's so specific that it will allow the government to tell you what you have to put in your body, which no one would want.

It's just very hard.

So then I go, I think at the end of the day, we all have to be more like the Swedes, right?

That are like, yeah, shit gets stolen.

That's how life works.

It's almost like that's how life is.

There's so many of us and we can't really throw people in jail before they've done something.

Not in jail.

I guess that's my whole point.

Is like, we're not throwing him in jail.

We're saying, okay, so there are real things that could help mitigate this danger.

Let's put those into place.

You have Jeffrey Dahlmer's.

Like, there are people that there's no medication or therapy that's going to help.

They need to be in prison away from everyone.

Of course, it's just a catch-winning tweet.

You have to wait for them to give you that reason, which no one would want to do.

But at the same time, you would lose so much if you could do it the other way.

That's tricky.

There's no answer to it necessarily.

That was my point.

Is that sometimes there's problems there's not a good answer for?

This is kind of one of them.

That's definitely a hard question.

Thank you guys for letting me on here.

Oh, thank you.

But I do want to say this.

I was a lot excited to be on here and a little nervous.

So I asked AI for pointers and it was so cute.

It said, Don't worry, Dax and Monica are some of the easiest and friendliest people to talk to.

And their producers and editors are top-notch, so they'll make you sound great.

Wow.

Is Monica running your AI?

Because it sounds like one of us wrote that.

I flattered and it's creepy.

One of my mental health is ADHD.

So I was super nervous.

And I'm on medication for it.

And I was like, I can't tell a story start to finish, but you guys made it easy.

It was great.

It was a great story.

You'll appreciate this, Marla.

I just made an ADHD joke in the previous interview, which is a substitute was berating the kids and he was swearing at them and yelling.

And then he left the classroom for a while.

And then they were only third grade.

And then two of the kids decided they were going to be the ones that escaped in in the hallway and went and told the principal.

And I said, Two kids with ADHD for sure.

I'm like, heroes.

We need every variety for when you're in a situation.

Definitely.

Oh, well, thank you for chatting.

Have a good rest of your day.

All right, you too.

Take care.

Oh, that story was scary.

That was like what lies beneath.

Kind of.

Isn't that an alligator or a shark?

No.

A fair and ghost and pop-out, obviously.

Hello.

Hello, sir.

How do I pronounce your fake name?

Talon or Talon?

Talon.

Talon, like a hawk's talon?

It's actually T-A-L-Y-N.

It refers to a sentient ship from the series Farscape.

So it was a ship that could think and had consciousness.

And was actually born to a female ship.

Wow, I love this.

Very specific.

And did the ship have character flaws and wisdom?

And was it like a multifaceted type of consciousness?

It was a tormented ship because it was was genetically modified.

The original female was a ship that was meant to bring peace.

What they did is they mutated the quote-unquote fetus to be a warship.

Oh, okay.

And so it was tormented because part of it was had a big cannon and it was supposed to go and destroy things, but part of it was peaceful.

So it was like a real character.

Yeah.

Yeah, fighting its nature.

Yeah.

Love it.

So, Taylor, where are you?

I want to be semi-anonymous.

I'm in Western Connecticut.

Okay, that's plenty.

I just like to know the region.

You know, I like to find purchase and some stereotypes before we continue.

Okay, so you have a substitute teacher story.

I do.

And this story actually takes place in El Paso, Texas.

I was in grade school there.

This is a long time ago in the early 70s.

And this is an important part of the story because things used to be different.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Tell people how it worked back then.

I have some taste of it in the early 80s, but hit us with how.

it worked.

The first thing that was interesting is the part of El Paso I lived at was the northeast side, which was next next to the Fort Bliss, which is a fort where they would train people around desert warfare.

There were a lot of soldiers that lived in northeast El Paso, so kind of it's a little bit of a rougher type of culture.

Sure.

You could get in a fight at the bar pretty easily.

Guys coming through the window every now and then.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

There's three pieces of context I want to give around this school to really set the stage.

I think these first two are kind of pretty much banned in schools these days.

But in the grade school, teachers had paddles that they would use for discipline.

I don't know if you ever had that taste of that, but they had paddles and public spankings.

In retrospect, it wasn't to bruise you or to cause damage to you.

It was more to humiliate you in front of your peers.

It's giving the administer of that punishment a lot of faith that they're going to stay on the right side of that and just go for humiliation and not also then hurt.

You're really entrusting that person a lot, yeah, to make some judgment calls.

It's funny, the coaches would have the paddles that were supposed to be stronger.

They'd have holes in them.

So they would pretend to hit a little harder just to increase the humiliation.

So that's the first thing.

The second thing is that there was a related tradition, which was on your birthday, the teacher could paddle you gently for the number of years.

It wasn't mandatory, but the thrill seekers would be the ones who'd volunteer because they wanted to be up there and get all the attention.

And so in our school, the third thing was they wanted kids to behave.

They could be kind of rowdy.

And so what they did is they had a list of substitutes that they would pick from, usually their favorites, and that would be the ones you would always see.

So on this day, I was in third grade and a substitute was needed.

And they picked a substitute that no one recognized.

It was just somebody kind of out of the blue.

She looked like she was maybe in her 50s.

She was probably 25 because you were in third grade and everyone seemed 50.

You're probably exactly right.

She was wearing these polyester pants that were really form-fitting.

I would say kind of the equivalent of like leggings these days.

Yeah.

And it was like a little bit more common back in the day.

So it wasn't out of sorts, but most teachers didn't wear those.

And she had a quiet demeanor as well.

So she gave us assignments and I presume they were the original teacher.

And we were kind of going through them and people were behaving well.

But at some point during the day, just to get our attention back up, she started telling us that it was her birthday.

And she said that she had heard about this birthday tradition that I taught.

Oh.

Oh my God.

Really quick, we gave Talon so much shit about her age and he might actually know.

She might have asked for 50 wax.

Oh, you're right.

But also then maybe she was really 35 and wanted lots of wax.

But anyways, okay.

Yeah, well, she thought it would be good to follow the tradition.

And so she said that the room didn't have a paddle, which in retrospect, I don't know if that was true or not.

And that she also didn't want to go out and find one because she didn't want to leave us alone.

We're third graders.

We're like 25 kids in the room.

And so she said she was too old to get the number of whacks, but she did want the whole class to participate.

So she said what she was going to do was she's going to walk along the aisles.

up to each student and then turn around and that each student was to whack her on her butt Oh my god.

With their bare hand, smack her ass in tight polyester.

She also said that since there was no paddle, the paddle would have been harder, that it was okay for the student to hit her as hard as they wanted to.

Oh no, she's kind of a pedophile.

We're laughing.

I know, isn't it crazy?

I was immediately thinking, like, man, when it's a man and a woman, it's just a completely different scenario in my head.

If it's a man doing this, I'm like, we need the cops in there right now and get them out of there.

And then this, I'm like, this gail's a little off course.

She's off course.

Yeah.

I mean, we're third graders, right?

So we're generally not really understanding.

There's no World Wide Web.

So any kind of stuff you heard about sexual things you heard from your older siblings or cousins or something like that, this activity that was about to happen wasn't anything that was really discussed.

Right.

It probably sounded fun, actually.

All the kids are like, we got to do this to our substitute now.

And in fact, the Thrill Seeker students, they were looking like they were going to have a great time.

Knock her to the ground.

Yeah.

As promised, she started walking down.

She'd turn around and students would whack her.

She had large butt cheeks, so it was really easy to like find your target.

The first students were a little bit shy, but they still did it because they were being told to do it by the teacher.

Things changed when she got to the first of the thrill-seeking students.

This student was one of the most athletic in our grade.

He stood up, and the best way I can describe it was it was like he was up in the pitcher's mount, and he started winding his arm up.

And he put his foot forward, and he just ripped out like a big whap.

And it was so loud.

Oh wow.

And everyone started laughing and hollering and hooting.

Yes.

The ice was broken and it was a party.

Oh my God.

What was her reaction to that?

Did she let out any kind of a moan or anything?

I thought she was going to be angry because it was such a big whack and everything.

Or at the very least, she was going to tell people, just take it a little bit easy.

But instead, she let out like a little cooing noise.

Oh my.

Oh my gosh.

She is.

This is one of the kinkiest, weirdest stories I've ever heard.

You could see the energy in the thrill seekers.

All of a sudden, they're looking at each other and they're mumbling to each other and you knew they wanted to outdo the Varus at high.

If someone walked by, they could have seen what was going on.

But she went through everybody.

Did she yell at anyone for being too soft?

Like, you call that a smack?

I don't remember her doing that.

I do remember people starting to hit her harder because you wanted to be seen in front of the cool kids as being strong.

Yes, paddle that ass, really.

Lay into it.

Yeah.

Okay.

Needless to say, I don't think it's the first time she ever did this.

But at the end, she went back to her seat and thanked the class for helping her celebrate her birthday.

Oh, my God.

When she goes, that was the best birthday I've ever had in my life.

She's going to each class saying it's her birthday.

Definitely.

Yeah, she gets spanked every day at work and she loves it.

She loves it.

Oh, my God.

And they loved it too.

They didn't love it at first, but then they got it.

Her people felt weird after.

I bet they loved it.

And then I wonder if anyone was like, that was a little bit weird.

Yeah.

Do you remember what you were thinking during this?

I was thinking it was very strange.

I could feel there was something wrong about it.

Okay.

Yeah.

But I still smacked her because I was supposed to smack her.

I do remember that I tucked it away in my brain for like a decade and then it came out one day.

It's like a source of shame kind of.

I want to meet her so she's dead.

Well, she was 50 in 1970.

Yeah, probably.

Unless she's a centenarian.

She was wild.

So she lived a big life and I think it's over.

We wanted her to come back as kids just because of the spectacle of it all, and maybe to better process it.

Yes, we sometimes return to the source of our trauma looking for answers.

Exactly.

Oh, Talon, I love this story so much.

I shouldn't, but I love it.

It's very good.

The epilogue is that apparently some of the parents must have heard something because we never, ever, ever saw her again.

Yeah, that's right, Dax.

That's right.

Lucy,

ships.

Everyone's having a good time.

Everyone won.

They didn't, though.

Talon had to hold this story for 10 years before he was able to talk.

Let me ask you, just and be dead honest.

I don't want to lead the witness.

Are you grateful this happened to you or do you wish it hadn't happened?

In retrospect, I'm grateful partly because I'm here.

Yeah, it's a fun story.

And also because I think it was just at the verge where you don't really understand things.

Like if this would have been a sixth grade class, it would have been really strange, right?

It is still so strange.

A bunch of like nine-year-olds like slapping this 50-year-old woman's ass.

I just picture in sixth grade.

Someone got the idea to like booty bump her, you know, like thrust themselves into her.

She's done this enough.

She knows the grace.

She's very controlled, weirdly.

She has a lot of control over this.

Kill she could.

Inappropriate.

Oh my god.

I mean, she knew the tradition.

Do you think she climaxes during this?

No, later.

Later.

When she thinks about it, probably, which is creepy.

Yeah, it is.

It's not appropriate.

I tried to remember and I couldn't.

She took a bathroom break at someone.

Thanks for my birthday.

That was so fun.

I just got to quickly tinkle.

Oh my God.

Taylor, that was great.

Thank you.

Thank you for that awesome story.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

I want to shout out my wife.

She's been in the armchair forever.

She's got me into anonymous.

She's got my daughter into anonymous.

We love anonymous.

We're every single one.

Oh, great.

I was so excited to have this prompt.

I saw it and I thought, no way.

You nailed it.

It really.

If people wait long enough, there will be a prompt for them.

Have a great rest of your summer, Talon.

Okay, thanks.

Take care.

All right.

Bye-bye.

Who am I going to say it reminds me of?

My dad?

Yeah.

A thousand percent.

So much your dad.

Like that really playful sense of humor.

Uber intelligent, you could tell.

Yeah.

An observer of like ship.

Well, yeah, he's reading like this science fiction and stuff.

And then he's giggling at this other thing he's observing.

Oh, that makes me happy.

No wonder that.

I really felt like I was talking to a shoke a couple different times.

And your dad's a little rascally, which is fun.

I've heard that he was a big rascal in his youth.

So bad he had to leave India.

He was kicked out.

Before he got arrested.

Wow.

That was funny.

But I loved that last story.

And you're not supposed to love that story, but isn't it funny?

It's like right on the verge.

It's because it happened so long ago.

There's something about it that was like 70s.

Yeah.

She had this all pants.

She wore those pants.

She wanted thin, tight pants that she could feel.

Some of these stories are really sad.

This is a Jonathan Height, which I should almost email him about this.

No, this is

ethically okay.

It's not ethically okay?

Well, if everyone flourished and no one suffered, no, no, you can't say that it could have scarred some of the kids.

Like, I really feel bad.

I smacked a woman as hard as I could.

Yeah, she forced me to.

Yeah, like I was a hero on the day, but on my bike ride home, I was like, I hurt a woman, but she cooed.

She cooed.

What if it's they hit her as hard as they can, everyone laughed, she liked it, and then that person became an abuser?

Whoa, like they got positive reinforcement from smacking their do you think her name was Miss chevious

miss chevious

no i don't think that that guy would think it's okay to then hit women but i could imagine it forming a kink for him that's what i'm saying it could get very complicated he might have been extra horny for late 50s s and m trying to recreate but especially the s

sadis yeah because he got to administer it so now he has so don't do that she ran over the doorknob.

I can't get this door open.

Oh, I gotta fucking shove it.

Okay, all right, all right.

I love you.

I love you.

Bye.

Suck.

Oh, it's suck.

It sucks.

It's suck.

It's open.

It's open.

I opened it.

You made it so much worse.

Now it's definitely open.

It's open.

It's open.

It's open.

Everyone, go back to your seat.

Don't look at me.

It's open.

Bye.

Do you want to sing a tune or something?

We're going to do a theme song.

Oh.

Okay, great.

We don't have

Enjoy.

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Hi, I'm Monica Lewinsky.

Welcome to Reclaiming.

I would define reclaiming as to take back what was yours.

Something you possess is lost or stolen, and ultimately you triumph in finding it again.

Miley Cyrus, welcome to Reclaiming.

My 2013 is your 1998.

I lost everything during that time in my personal life because of the choices I was making professionally.

Chelsea Handler, welcome to Reclaiming.

I did have a teacher who instilled in me that I was going to do something special, and she was like, You're going to have an impact.

Sophia Bush, welcome to Reclaiming.

You went all the way, you committed, and if it wasn't for you, you had the courage to tell the truth and get out.

And I had to say that to women in my life, and I had to learn how to say it in the mirror to myself.

This last decade for me has really been what I consider my own reclaiming.

My own journey, my own reclaiming story is in the bones of this show.

Please listen to Reclaiming on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.