Nicholas Hoult Returns

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Speaker 1 Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. It's an exciting week.
It's the beginning of Superman Week.

Speaker 2 This is so exciting. I love a week.
I love when we do a theme.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 And to kick that week off, we have a returning guest, someone I've pursued passionately for a friendship, as you'll learn. Yeah.
Unrequained.

Speaker 1 Still in love with him. That's how charming he is.

Speaker 2 How could you not be?

Speaker 1 What a smoke show. Nicholas Holt.
Nicholas Holt is a Golden Globe nominated actor. The great warm bodies about a boy, The Order.
Now, Superman in theaters, July 11th. I mean, go check it out.

Speaker 1 Check it out. Please enjoy Nicholas Holt.
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Speaker 1 he's an option

Speaker 1 Let's talk immediately about this gorgeous hairdo. Yeah.
Because it really answers the question I've always had. Like, what if we were peers in the same age and we grew up together?

Speaker 1 And I think this would have been your look in junior high in the 80s. This is very skaters.

Speaker 3 I've never bleached my hair before. This is the first.

Speaker 2 How are you liking it?

Speaker 1 I'm kind of into it.

Speaker 3 It hasn't changed my personality yet. Oh.
But I'm gradually

Speaker 2 picking up some treats.

Speaker 1 You're having more fun. Oh, yeah, of course.
That was the first thing. Right out of the gates.
I walked out of the salon and I threw those brunette shackles away. And here I am.

Speaker 1 All of a sudden you realize, oh, that's right. I do own a convertible.
I'm going to put the top down. I haven't done that yet.
But I'm kind of liking it. It's fun.
Yeah. Is it for a role?

Speaker 3 Yeah, it wasn't just me, like midlife.

Speaker 1 I feel

Speaker 1 like hello midlife. It's for a role, yeah.
Okay, fine. Is it for the David Leach?

Speaker 3 It is for the David Leach movie, yeah.

Speaker 1 Oh, how exciting. Did you see Fall Guy? You must have.

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I saw Fall Guy.

Speaker 1 Do we agree? It's a perfect film. It's brilliant.

Speaker 3 And such a great celebration of the stunt industry. And that's what's so exciting about what David's done recently as well in terms of getting the stunt recognition category in the Oscars as well.

Speaker 1 Oh, did he succeed at that? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 I think in two years or something, there's going to be a stunt design category, I think, is what they're calling it. So, that will be part of the Oscars.

Speaker 1 I'll expect them to give me a Lifetime Achievement Award in that department. Get on it.
I never thought I had a route into the Academy Awards, but this could be it.

Speaker 2 That's like they just added podcasting to the Golden Globes. He just shit on the Golden Globes publicly.
I'm like, well, there goes our shop.

Speaker 1 We'll redact that quick now.

Speaker 1 A little late.

Speaker 3 You've got to start sending some good things on the globes quick.

Speaker 2 No, we we got a campaign.

Speaker 1 You've had to play that game. Have you ever been on any weird lunches?

Speaker 3 I was lucky. I got nominated for the globes twice.
The first year was COVID. So we didn't get to go.
I just sat at home with a laptop.

Speaker 1 Is that good or bad?

Speaker 3 I was kind of like, oh, it would have been fun to go and be nominated and been like, yeah, okay, this is an achievement.

Speaker 3 And then the following year, I got nominated again, and it was when everyone boycotted the Golden Globes.

Speaker 1 So again, nobody went. And I was like, whoa.

Speaker 3 And then the following year, I didn't get nominated.

Speaker 3 And everyone was back there having the best time.

Speaker 1 They loved the Golden golds again.

Speaker 3 I was sitting at home ruining it, being like, oh, stewing.

Speaker 1 If you get nominated again, and then there's another event, we will have to conclude.

Speaker 2 That's a you problem.

Speaker 1 It's definitely a Nicholas problem. Yeah.

Speaker 3 How have you guys been? It's been a while since I've been on.

Speaker 1 Your house is looking lovely.

Speaker 3 You're looking very strong. Oh, God.

Speaker 3 We can talk about that more.

Speaker 1 I'd love to. I'd like to do an hour on.
What are you doing? We should pull up a picture. What are you doing? Robin.

Speaker 2 Can we pull up a picture of

Speaker 2 the first one? Because I want to see how different you look.

Speaker 1 You would be probably shocked with how often we have talked about you since you did the podcast. Every up and specifically

Speaker 1 your body. Oh, really? Yes.

Speaker 2 Truly. Not to put you on the spot, but yes, you come up as the perfect male body.

Speaker 1 Oh, thanks.

Speaker 1 According to

Speaker 2 me and women. And me.

Speaker 1 Here's what happened. I had my own journey with your body.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I got big. And then there was a moment.
It was actually when you were on. You left.
It was a moment of clarity. I go, that's what women like.

Speaker 1 They don't want a fucking 220-pound dumb-dumb. Right.

Speaker 3 My body is unbelievably, I'm in the gym a fair bit. Yeah.
I'm going to sports, but I actually don't really look like it. And everyone just talks about how scrolling I am online.

Speaker 1 No, no, no. No, no, no, no.
No one's talking about that. Every woman I know is talking about how it's pretty much perfect.
And I myself conceded to that when I left you.

Speaker 1 I was like, yeah, that's what every gale is.

Speaker 2 You are very fit, but it doesn't look like you are trying too hard. There is a sweet spot.

Speaker 1 How cute we are. Okay.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God. What's happening? We just look younger.

Speaker 1 Did you do the same thing I did? Let's be honest. You've got Nicholas in the photo.
Yes. Really, your eye should go there.
And then I look at myself and I go, oh, my God.

Speaker 1 What happened to my face? What's wrong with me? And did you do the same thing, Monica? Did you find your own face and then just get locked in? Well, yeah.

Speaker 2 I was just like, oh, we're getting older.

Speaker 1 Uh-huh. Like, I can tell.

Speaker 1 From these photos. We're all getting older.
older, yeah.

Speaker 1 No, you look younger for sure with the fun blonde hair and clean-shaven. Yeah,

Speaker 2 you're aging backwards.

Speaker 1 Get that off there, Rob. But I'm already kind of big there.

Speaker 2 Yeah, especially you look muscular there, too.

Speaker 1 But you left, it was like a reckoning. And I was like, I got to be honest with myself.
I'm clearly not doing this for women. I know that this is the dream.

Speaker 3 Well, now you're doing it for me because I walked in and saw you, and I was like, It was like a mockery.

Speaker 1 I was like, woof, woof.

Speaker 2 And it works. Men love his body now.

Speaker 1 We do.

Speaker 3 I speak from on behalf of women.

Speaker 1 Women are out. Men are in.
Let's go.

Speaker 3 Yeah, so you stopped doing it for men, but result of that, I've actually done it even more for men.

Speaker 1 Yes, it's all for men. It's probably always been for men, but it took me a while.
As long as you're fit and healthy and happy, it's all good. What is your routine?

Speaker 3 Well, at the moment, I've got a different routine because I've torn my ACL.

Speaker 1 Oh, you did? Three weeks ago. Shooting?

Speaker 3 No, playing basketball. That pickup Saturday morning game, I was really feeling it.

Speaker 1 Do you appoint yourself power forward? What role are you playing?

Speaker 3 Yeah, power forward. It was rough.
The most embarrassing thing was it went. I was laying there and I was being, you know, a little pansy about it.
I was like, ah.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow. Hyperventilani.

Speaker 3 Someone I was playing with, they were like, someone, get half or something.

Speaker 1 I lay on one. They did.

Speaker 3 So eventually, like, 10, 15 minutes later, I'm up and like people are helping me out at the gym to get in the car to try and get home.

Speaker 3 My wife had told me that day, she was like, don't go play tomorrow morning because you're playing on Sunday anyway. Just chill.
And I went anyways. And then I was like, oh, right.

Speaker 3 I shouldn't have been here. And now I've done this.
Now she's got a night torment. And then two fire.
engines turn up

Speaker 3 and all these firefighters jump out with their emergency gear and I'm running towards her and I'm hobbling out and I I was like, no, guys, it's really okay. I was like, this is so embarrassing.

Speaker 3 It's fine.

Speaker 1 That's rough. The fire.

Speaker 3 Yeah, they all looked at me like, what is your problem? Why are we called for this?

Speaker 1 Because you probably already were regretting your reaction by the time you were up and walking. Yeah.

Speaker 3 I was like, am I overreacting?

Speaker 1 Right. It felt pretty bad.

Speaker 1 My knee went

Speaker 3 outwards. And then people kept on asking me, did you hear a pop? And I was like, I don't think.
But also, I was probably shrieking in my mind at that point. It's a complete test on.
Yeah. It is.

Speaker 1 All I'm looking for out of you right now to help me in my my futures. Do you know? You know, you go, Oh, that's torn.

Speaker 3 Looking back, yeah, I was like, That's not good. Okay, that was pretty obvious.
There's something definitely disconnected.

Speaker 1 Yeah, hey, and did you get surgery for it?

Speaker 3 Not yet. I've got to go do the film first because if I did the surgery now, I wouldn't be able to work.

Speaker 1 But this is an action movie, you'll be running and jumping.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah. So, that gets back to your question about what I'm doing.

Speaker 3 Like, I'm doing physio three times a week, just kind of trying to get full motion back and strength because people can survive without an ACL.

Speaker 3 It's just not good if you are like in an action mode changing direction and trying to run and rock banks and whatever else.

Speaker 1 Oh, but we'll figure it out. Did you have to call Dave personally? The director, David Leash?

Speaker 3 I did. I called him.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
Tell me about like leading up to that phone call.

Speaker 3 I was just like, oh, I say, oh, I'm an idiot.

Speaker 1 Yeah, first second, my wife's going to say, I told you so. And then next is this.

Speaker 3 Well, at that point, I didn't have all the information. I hadn't got my MRI and I didn't know when I was going to get.
So there was a lot of unknowns at that point. So I just called him.

Speaker 3 I was like, hey, this is the deal. And David's great.
He's one of the nicest people in the world. He was like, oh, Oh, I've had that, it sucks.
Don't worry, we'll figure it out.

Speaker 1 I've had six of those, don't worry.

Speaker 3 He was lovely. He was like, Just keep me posted what we can do and how we're going to make this work.

Speaker 3 So, then, luckily, when I went to see the doctor, he was like, Yeah, well, I wouldn't do surgery now anyway because of this and this. So, we'll do it after the film.
We'll get you up on your feet.

Speaker 3 So, I called David straight after that, and I was like, We're good.

Speaker 1 Good to go.

Speaker 1 Let's go.

Speaker 1 Let's get it done tomorrow.

Speaker 1 Josh Brolin was stabbed in Mexico

Speaker 1 days before starting the movie.

Speaker 1 That was wild. It was recently today.
Now, is it no news break? Is he okay? What film was that on? I don't remember.

Speaker 1 He was down in his using days, and he was taking a quick holiday before he started production. And he got stabbed in the chest by a guy and had to come home.

Speaker 1 And he also, he broke his arm like three days before, no country for old men, but it kind of worked because he was doing it on purpose.

Speaker 1 I just think in the scheme of things, worse has happened where he shows up with a fresh stab wound to say,

Speaker 1 we're going to have to make this work. That swimming scene's out.
I have a hole in my chest.

Speaker 2 God, I think I would be tempted to just show up and be like, yeah, so I also tore my ACL so they couldn't recast me. They wouldn't have time to recast me.

Speaker 1 I did that for a commercial, if you recall. And you fired.
I could not book commercials. I auditioned for eight years from commercials and I got two of them.
This would be a third.

Speaker 1 But on the weekend before the shoot, a guy punched me in the nose

Speaker 1 as I was sitting down

Speaker 1 crisscross.

Speaker 2 Crisscross applesauce.

Speaker 1 I was sitting like that and got my nose broken.

Speaker 3 You were sitting like that. Is that why the guy punched you?

Speaker 1 Because he was like, no, Crisscross Apple saw you. I thought it was the broken.
Why are you calling it Indian style? Yeah, he was. I don't even know who's mad, Native Americans or Indians.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but severely broken. And I was like, I'm just going to go and hope that they can put makeup on it.
And they caught him. It was like this big.
I had black and blue eyes and it was crooked.

Speaker 1 What was this commercial for? It was for Carl's Jr. Carl's Jr.? Carl's Jr.
I don't need to say Junior.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's all right.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's the Michigan in me came out. I want to catch everyone up.
So you came on. I was very charmed by you, as most people are.
And I was like, you know what?

Speaker 1 This is going to be my new young friend. I know.
And then we haven't hung out once. I know.

Speaker 3 We've texted a fair bit.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm pursuing you a little stronger.

Speaker 3 No, I'm just very unavailable.

Speaker 1 You are, which is probably why I'm so attractive.

Speaker 3 And I'm such a bad texter as well. When I opened my messages today to text you, and then I was like, oh shit, I haven't responded to this message.
And I felt bad. So I apologize for that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you're in a relationship with the hot guy.

Speaker 1 I know what they feel like.

Speaker 3 I'm very good when it's like, oh, we're going to meet. Yeah.
But like that.

Speaker 1 Just a casual check-in.

Speaker 3 Well, I've got kids and this and that and what and everything. I'm just like bouncing around a lot.
I'll do better at that.

Speaker 1 No, no, no, no, no. It's not an excuse.
I wanted to out myself as heavily pursuing you.

Speaker 3 You were riding recently down at Coda, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, I'm motorcycling. How was that? It was incredible.
Have you driven that track?

Speaker 3 I have. I did that track.

Speaker 1 Yes. Uh-oh.
Did you crash?

Speaker 3 No, I didn't crash.

Speaker 3 We were there for South by Southwest and as I was with my two best friends, we'd gone out the night before, and I was like, we're going to go to the track track tomorrow and maybe drive.

Speaker 3 And then we like hadn't slept.

Speaker 3 And I turned up at the track and then they were like, oh, there's a bike session out now. Do you want to go out? And me being young, I was like early 20s, mid-20s.
I don't know. I was stupid.

Speaker 3 And I was like, yeah, okay, sure.

Speaker 1 Oh, you went out on a motorcycle?

Speaker 3 Yeah, so I went before the car session, went out on a bike. Yeah, how did that feel? It felt like I shouldn't have been doing it.

Speaker 1 It was pretty

Speaker 1 dangerous.

Speaker 3 It was like a hindsight decision. But I was like, well, I don't know when I'll be back again.
Might as well. But it's a fun track.
It's a beautiful track.

Speaker 3 It's surprising how much elevation change there is there.

Speaker 1 As I say, it's like, if you want to experience what it's like to ride inside of an American flag. Yeah, yeah.
That's what it is. It's so colorful.
And I love it. So have you been driving?

Speaker 3 I've been driving. I was at Daytona.

Speaker 1 Are you in the Ferrari Challenge? Yes.

Speaker 3 This time I was in Track Attack. We had a bit of a rough weekend.
Daytona. Have you done Daytona? No.

Speaker 3 So it's a fun track because we do like the banking of the trioval, but then you go into the infield. It was my first time there.
I did have a crash.

Speaker 1 Oh, you did?

Speaker 3 I'm in the wars at the moment. I had the crash, I done the knee.
Everything's like, oh, zee, I should stop doing all this stuff.

Speaker 1 You start questioning.

Speaker 3 There's a little bit of doubt creeping in occasionally now where I'm like, oh, this never used to happen.

Speaker 3 But it was, yeah, my second session out there of the Ferrari challenge, and I was probably pushing a little bit too hard.

Speaker 3 There's a break zone on the back straight where you're breaking down for the bus stop chicane sort of thing. And you're coming, breaking from like 170 or 180, and I lost the back end into the tires.

Speaker 1 Ah, oopsies. Yeah.
There's no level of embarrassment for me worse than if I fail in a vehicle.

Speaker 3 First of all, it was that weird feeling. How many times have you questioned?

Speaker 1 Motorcycle once, four pieces, the clavicle and the whole thing. so really i've had that

Speaker 1 that's the only thing i've had no and then i've had go ahead oh no yeah in the neighborhood you birch yourself on a bicycle bicycle i did crash an electric bicycle after i had already had the shoulder and it was bad yeah it broke all the hardware

Speaker 1 yeah it was really bad but there's some level of embarrassment for me when it's vehicular because it's dax's whole identity is it your whole identity i don't think it is I wouldn't say it's the whole

Speaker 1 what percentage I think if it was the whole identity and I'm not that good at it

Speaker 3 if i was really good at it then i could be like oh yeah it's more of my identity but i'm not good enough for it mine's disproportionately more my identity than it deserves to be so you shouldn't let that roll i can't put all of it but it depends what i'm obsessing about at that time that suddenly becomes my thing yeah it's got to be a big chunk of your identity yeah i do enjoy it and i enjoy the obsession about it and the details and whatever else but yeah i was embarrassed it was that weird thing when i felt the crash happen and i was like ah And at that moment, there's nothing you can do about it.

Speaker 3 It's too late. There's a little bit of time slowing.
The only time I've come off a bike on track as well, I remember the thought was, oh, this is what it feels feels like. Right.

Speaker 3 Which is a weird thing, but you just go, oh, that's what's happening. This is what it feels like.
Cause it's out of your control. Then I hit the tires.

Speaker 3 Priority and the team were kind of happily surprised there wasn't as much damage as there could have been to the car.

Speaker 1 It was on a 24-hour.

Speaker 3 No, no, no. It wasn't an endurance thing.
The next day we got back out in the car.

Speaker 3 And that was the weird thing was then trying to get back out because that's the first time that's happened where I was like, oh. And we lost the data and the video, so we don't know what I did wrong.

Speaker 3 God'd be coming up to that turn on real tentative because I was like, ooh, what happens if something happens again?

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's very scary to not know why it happened.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a weird thing.

Speaker 1 Okay, two two more things, Monica. I promise we'll move off.
Yeah, yeah, sorry.

Speaker 3 I remember last time there was a fair portion of before we just monopolized the conversation about race and my bad.

Speaker 1 Oh, no. But when you're at Daytona, so when I did the Lamborghini thing, we did Fontana, which has the bank.
I had the advantage of someone in that series.

Speaker 1 Well, two dudes in that series were NASCAR drivers. So I got to go out in practice and do the bank with them.

Speaker 1 But there was a moment before I went out behind them where I had done it and I was like, fifth gear flat. That's as fast as a human can go through this turn.

Speaker 1 I came and I started talking to NASCAR guy. He's like, oh no, it's sixth gear flat through there.
I'm like, there's no fucking way. And he's like, well, just get behind me and follow me.

Speaker 1 And I'm like, okay. And I did.
And lo and behold, you could. But I'm just curious, did you have that learning curve with the bank where it's like, oh my God, you can go.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 3 The first time I went out, I went out with my coach, and he did three laps, four laps. I came in, and I thought I was going to cry.

Speaker 1 I was like, that's so intense. Yeah, I got to do that.

Speaker 3 My eyes are just a little bit misty. And I was like, I'm not going to cry, but I just feel a little bit overwhelmed by everything that's just happened.

Speaker 1 And it's so fast.

Speaker 3 Yeah, it's like 31 degrees, the banking, whatever. And you are flying.
I think the fastest we hit there was 190.

Speaker 1 190 turning left. Oh, my God.

Speaker 3 So it was like one of those where they came in, they're like, oh, Nick, hop in the drive seat, off you go. At that moment, I was a bit like, oh, I don't know about this.

Speaker 3 But then you do build up to it. Obviously, also, I've done the track on the sim before getting there.
And that banking feels like it's like six lanes wide and no worries.

Speaker 3 And then suddenly you get on it and you are lent over as far as you are. And it's technically three lanes wide, but it feels like there's only room for one, maybe two cars.

Speaker 3 And you're looking up out the window over there.

Speaker 1 All your peripheral vision is now moving by you. It's the only time you really feel speed.
Everything out the window is going by at 190. You're like, oh, I'm flying.

Speaker 3 Yeah, it's a bizarre thing. But then also, I'll end race chat.

Speaker 1 Oh, you're good. Oh, no, we have one more thing.
I told her there's two. Okay.

Speaker 3 Okay. There was a beautiful moment.
So on the Sunday, we'd finished basically, and I was just like out there lapping a little bit. And the sun was setting, and I was on the banking.

Speaker 3 And I wasn't really pushing, but I was just kind of out there just enjoying like the sunset day ton of cruising around the banking. And I was like, this is a once-in-a-lifetime experience.

Speaker 3 That felt very special. I was like, oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay, last race thing.

Speaker 1 You'll like this one though. It's more fun.
Are you still following Formula One? Yeah. Great.
How do you feel about Max?

Speaker 3 This season, particularly watching how far his car is off the pace, watching what he's doing, I'm really impressed.

Speaker 1 Just to say, Monica, teammates, almost without exception, always finish within two places of each other. Max's whole season is finishing in the top three, and his teammates 14 right away.

Speaker 1 He's 11 places ahead, always.

Speaker 3 It's remarkable where he's doing this shit. And in qualifying and in the races, it's really impressive.

Speaker 1 I bring him up because did you hear that they did a screening for F1 in Monaco? No, I didn't know this. It's perfect.
I saw it. Oh, Oh, you saw it? It's excellent.
Okay.

Speaker 1 It's everything you want it to be. Every driver's in the movie virtually.

Speaker 1 And so they invited all the drivers to see a screening of it at Monaco, and everyone went except for Max because he had a sim race scheduled.

Speaker 2 I think it's great. He's prioritizing his real job.

Speaker 1 Well, sim racing's not his real job. That's his hobby.
But he is so obsessed with it. It's part of the reason he is Max.
But when I saw it, I leaned over to Kristen and I'm like, fucking Max.

Speaker 1 He's in a movie with Brad Brad Pitt. There's some sequences where it's he and Brad Pitt.
And he's like, I don't need to see that.

Speaker 3 Maybe he's just excited to see it another time.

Speaker 3 Well. Maybe he's got tickets for opening day.

Speaker 2 I think he doesn't care. And I think that's cool.

Speaker 1 I do too. It's part of it.

Speaker 2 I don't care about these movie stars. I'm a race car driver.

Speaker 1 He doesn't even care if he's in a movie with Brad Pitt. To be in a movie with Brad Pitt and not go see is so next level to me.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 You'd go see it. I would go see a movie with Brad Pitt.
If I was there, I'll go see it.

Speaker 1 If I'm not in in it, I'll go see that movie. That's right.

Speaker 2 You might be in a movie with Brad Pitt.

Speaker 1 Hopefully one day.

Speaker 3 I got to meet him and he was lovely.

Speaker 1 Where did you meet him?

Speaker 3 At the Venice Film Festival. I was chatting to a friend of mine and Brad came over and he'd seen The Great and really liked it.
And then was just like, hey, the show's really funny. You're funny.

Speaker 3 I was pretty starstruck. I don't get starstruck very much, but Brad was one that I was a bit like.

Speaker 1 He's overwhelming.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I just kind of stuttered a little bit and then didn't say anything. And then now look back and I was like, oh.

Speaker 2 But he liked you. That's awesome.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it was very cool.

Speaker 2 He is in the Beyoncé category that I'm not sure if they're real. There's like a certain echelon of people.
It's not even how famous they are.

Speaker 2 It's just there's something about them that I'm like, are you real?

Speaker 3 Well, he's also just given, for me, so many iconic, brilliant performances.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he's incredible.

Speaker 3 I was like, no, you had things you could have said to him, but my brain wasn't working.

Speaker 3 I just stood there like a lemon.

Speaker 2 Can you imagine how many people he talks to that have that?

Speaker 1 Everyone.

Speaker 3 It must be difficult. He's like, I can't have a conversation because look at all these people.

Speaker 1 They're just shut down.

Speaker 1 They're all wrong people yeah just mumble it is kind of my main obsession with him is the loneliness of it i could have talked to him about that are you lonely yeah he's like hey i like the show are you lonely

Speaker 1 i was like

Speaker 1 were you watching it because you felt lonely at home and you didn't know what else to do you're reaching out to me what's the thing that people almost come up to you for sometimes it's great sometimes still skins surprisingly sometimes explains it varies yeah I just thought maybe it was one of these situations where like people who have been in tons of big movies and then they're in a TV TV show and they're not expecting that.

Speaker 1 But that somehow is so much bigger.

Speaker 3 The TV thing is different because it's on every week and it's in people's houses. Being on TV makes you more recognizable than being in films in some way.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 In the case of The Great, they've got 30 hours of watching it versus two. And then also, I would imagine people are still probably watching The Great for the first time right now.

Speaker 3 Hopefully.

Speaker 1 I was heartbroken to see it end. It has since ended since we saw you last.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I think that was season one.

Speaker 1 one or two. Were you sad? I was very sad.

Speaker 3 I love playing that character and Tony's writing and working with Elle and all that cast. I was very sad.
Our last day shooting, the scene when my character drowned Jones and split up.

Speaker 2 We just told people to watch it.

Speaker 1 Watch it.

Speaker 1 Is that what really happened to him? No. Oh, okay.

Speaker 3 It's all pretty fictionalized. It was emotional scenes anyway that were fun scenes to play.
But I remember doing the first rehearsal, I think Elle and I were just both crying.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 3 Because it felt like the end of an era and something that we love doing so much.

Speaker 1 I was blown away to learn you live in Long Beach.

Speaker 2 Long Beach, California?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Long Beach, California. How did you end up there?

Speaker 3 My wife's family are from down that way. We live not far from here in the hills.
And then, whenever I was leaving town for work, she would go down there to be closer to them.

Speaker 3 It got to like starting school time and all that. And I was like, why do we live in LA? We just moved down there.
Yeah. And I really like it.
Close to the water. There's some good food and coffee.

Speaker 3 You can walk everywhere. The community is lovely and very welcoming.
It's a good little spot. So come on down.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 Did you have a wife and kids last time we saw you?

Speaker 3 Three years ago? Yeah.

Speaker 1 He had a girlfriend and one kid. Girlfriend, one child.

Speaker 2 Okay, got it.

Speaker 1 Are they three and seven right now? Two and seven. Okay, so seven is first grade.

Speaker 3 Finishing first grade.

Speaker 1 And you're going to school like I do, I imagine.

Speaker 3 I try and do drop-off and pickup when I'm home.

Speaker 1 So when you do drop-off, because I do drop-off, let's be honest, it's primarily moms. I don't know how it is in Long Beach.
It's a mix. Yeah, I should be more familiar.
It's a mix.

Speaker 2 All you see is the women.

Speaker 1 Probably. No, I see the dads because you got to talk to the dads.
Are you wearing a shirt when you go to school?

Speaker 1 Off or not. It depends what the weather is.
Sweat out at the gym, sweatband on porn water over the hiking

Speaker 1 there is a mom i see at drop off that i often see on the hiking trail and that feels weird like i'm having an affair with her or something

Speaker 1 why just because we saw each other thing and now we're hiking together we're not hiking together but it looks like we're hiking together your brain

Speaker 1 yeah what but i would argue i'm a six and you're a 10 and i get attention i love coming on this podcast it really helps me come on anytime and be like oh babe i feel a bit rough am i going arm checks.

Speaker 1 All right, you're not going to answer that. Do the moms flirt with? The moms must be fucking pulling their hair out with you dropping the kid? I don't think so.

Speaker 3 I think I was just like, oh, look, it's a bit boring and normal.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Oh, look, now he wants attention.

Speaker 3 He's dyed his hair blown.

Speaker 3 Oh, he's limping.

Speaker 3 We're not giving you enough attention.

Speaker 1 He's holding a picture of his fiery car crash.

Speaker 2 It could go either way. If you're with your kid, I think that gets neutralized a little bit.
Oh, I think you think it's hotter?

Speaker 1 I think it's the opposite for dads. And lucky for us, the hits keep on coming for the moms.
It's so true. It's so unfair.
But no, a guy with a kid for a woman is very attractive.

Speaker 3 One of my friends says this. He had a baby not long ago, and he was like, oh, a man with a baby is almost more attractive.

Speaker 1 Actually,

Speaker 1 1,000% marks. You're like, oh, that's a partner that was willing to have a child.
And he's caring for the child.

Speaker 1 Look at him.

Speaker 3 Doing the least amount, probably.

Speaker 1 Taking all the credit.

Speaker 3 He's taking 10 minutes of work that day.

Speaker 1 And we adore him.

Speaker 3 Let's celebrate him.

Speaker 1 What a guy.

Speaker 1 Dad of the year.

Speaker 2 I know. Oh, these poor moms.

Speaker 1 I know. Father's Day is coming up.

Speaker 3 Have you asked for anything? For Father's Day.

Speaker 1 Yeah. No, but I need to think on it because for Mother's Day, I take the kids away all day.
I think the favor should be returned for me. Like, she should rent a track for me.
Oh, yeah. Oh, wow.

Speaker 1 And you,

Speaker 1 us,

Speaker 1 will bring motorcycles and cars that sounds perfect maybe we're alive at the end and maybe

Speaker 2 exactly so she can maybe be a widow at the end of it

Speaker 1 they might both be happy with we'll take out policies on each other before as well another thing i was thinking about today was you're playing an american way more often no is that true it feels like you're playing an american more often than you are it's probably 50-50.

Speaker 3 great was english not for our two was english but then the order and juror number two those were american and lex louthers american and when you're shooting something are you inclined to just keep talking that way after work no i don't go home and be like

Speaker 3 although sometimes my older boy will be like if i'm practicing an accent a little bit like stop doing that dad stop talking like that but he is an american accent right he used to have more of an english accent he'd say water oh now he says like water oh like

Speaker 1 say it proper water exactly

Speaker 1 so he's got more of an american accent now he's probably more likely to pick up the words from you and not have the accent. Like, he'll probably say Wilston shit.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I think he says garage.

Speaker 1 Does he say controversy?

Speaker 3 Or do you? We'd never say that. We steer clear of that.

Speaker 1 Because it's posh?

Speaker 3 No, I would say controversy.

Speaker 1 Okay, but that's a polarizing word in England. Is it? Yes, a friend of mine's a journalist there, and he says controversy.
And I was like, what have you done to the word controversy there?

Speaker 1 But it's split. I think it's a class thing.
I think that might be. You must have been a shitbird.

Speaker 3 I'm not as posh to say that. Controversy.
Controversy.

Speaker 2 It's nice. No, but it's missing an R you're saying controversy contra there are weird words like that occasionally

Speaker 2 there's a controversy so you are dropping an R controversy it's just so posh you don't even need it controversy maybe maybe they just I don't need all those letters okay

Speaker 1 you know what I'm talking about yes controversy it's three letters

Speaker 1 okay since we well not since we saw you but I think I overlooked this the first time when did you do rebel in the rye that was when I was like 26.

Speaker 1 Okay you did rebel and the rye and you're playing J.D. Salinger.
I'm quite intrigued by J.D. Salinger.
Did you learn neat stuff about him?

Speaker 3 I learned a lot about him at the time, most of which I probably can't remember now.

Speaker 1 All I know is he became extremely reclusive and was really, really allergic to fame. What was all that about?

Speaker 3 I think, I mean, I mean, I'm not.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you are. You're the next best thing we have.

Speaker 3 I'm going to talk as if I...

Speaker 3 I have the right to on there.

Speaker 3 I think there was somewhat an element of not wanting the judgment of critics and things like that.

Speaker 3 Because, and I'm butchering this completely, this is so long ago since I learned all this and thought about it.

Speaker 3 But I think there were some poor reviews of some of his later work and he hated that and didn't agree with it. And it kind of made him more and more occlusive.

Speaker 3 And the fame and people putting their own things on top of his work and thoughts on him.

Speaker 1 Well, there's all these serial killers, not serial, but assassins.

Speaker 3 That carry the book.

Speaker 1 Yeah, carry the book around.

Speaker 3 Catches such a monumental work in terms of that character and the voice of him and the dialogue and just everything that it represents.

Speaker 3 And supposedly, a couple of years ago, I remember reading there's still in his vault all this unpublished work the family have got and are considering maybe binding into a book somehow and releasing it.

Speaker 3 Oh, really? But that's one thing that I found really beautiful about him. There's a quote from, again, I'm going to butcher this, but the Bhagavad Gita.

Speaker 1 Is that how you say it? Okay, okay.

Speaker 3 There's a quote in there that you have the right to work for the work's sake only and not the fruits of its rewards.

Speaker 3 I think, and that was something that I found very beautiful about how he went about.

Speaker 3 It was almost like he became like a tribute to this Holy Spirit or whatever you want to say, whereby he was doing the work for just the love of the writing as opposed to the idea of judgment of it or putting it out and it becoming something else other than what it is for him.

Speaker 3 And that's kind of a beautiful way of looking at how he worked and what he did.

Speaker 1 There's a, maybe it's apocryphal story that when Nicholas Cage was dating Patricia Arquette, he asked her to marry him and she said, I'll only say yes if you get me a black orchid and J.D.

Speaker 1 Salinger's autograph. Really?

Speaker 1 And he produced those and they got married. If I ever get to to interview him, I need to know if that's a true story.
And if so, how did he get this autograph?

Speaker 3 I will ask him.

Speaker 1 Please, because I now realize you've done two movies with Nick.

Speaker 3 I've done two movies with Nick Cage.

Speaker 1 Weatherman and Renfeld, which I was there opening night to support my boyfriend who won't text me back.

Speaker 3 Let's get him on the show. He's wonderful.
I love Nick. Such a brilliant actor to work with.
But I feel like that story is probably true. And if anyone can manage to get those two things, get him.

Speaker 1 Okay, so what he's famous for, I've heard too, I try to collect stories of Nick Cage, but he's apparently super famous for his rap gifts, that he gets like incredibly personal and incredible rap gifts.

Speaker 2 For people who don't know, a rap gift is a gift at the end of a shoot.

Speaker 1 Yep, at the end of a movie.

Speaker 2 You might change rap. You're saying rap like

Speaker 1 a rapper? He's like a rapper. Like he writes a rap game.

Speaker 1 He gives gifts which would also be iconic.

Speaker 1 Like a producer friend of mine produced a movie he was in, and he had just mentioned in conversation who his favorite author was, long-dead author.

Speaker 1 And for the rep gift, he presented him with like an original copy of his most famous work signed by him. And then I've heard several stories like

Speaker 2 I know. That's like his thing, it sounds like.

Speaker 1 There is a theme arising.

Speaker 2 Danny Seldron, he's just photocopying everything.

Speaker 1 That's not even real.

Speaker 3 We would just presume because they're from Nick.

Speaker 1 He's just a forger. Oh, you want to compare that? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
All right. I got a copy of the Bible signed by Jesus Christ from Nick Cage.

Speaker 3 Posted it on eBay. There you go.

Speaker 1 Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert.

Speaker 1 If you dare,

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Speaker 2 Is a black orchid that rare?

Speaker 1 I don't know, and I might even have the flower wrong, but it was some orchid that's impossible to get. Oh, I want one.

Speaker 2 Can you ask me, Cage is going to get me one?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I lost a three. Well, funny enough, he was in adaptation and it was all about orchids.
And I remember watching that thing going, is that the orchid orchid she wanted? It's a great film.

Speaker 3 So he found them. Did they get married? I don't know.
They got married.

Speaker 1 They've since divorced.

Speaker 3 We've got to find out where that orchid and the signed copy is.

Speaker 1 What would you say his personality is like?

Speaker 3 The word I would use is very pure. Authentic?

Speaker 3 It's very authentic, but you know when you meet people that have got large and alive personalities, but they've kind of faked on and they're trying to be interesting.

Speaker 3 Nick has stories, like you were just mentioning, all this wild life, but it's coming from the most... pure place you can possibly ever imagine.

Speaker 1 He couldn't be boring if he wanted to be.

Speaker 3 It's just a zest and love for everything and passion and it's authentic.

Speaker 2 It's not for attention.

Speaker 3 No, he's just one of the most idiosyncratic people I've ever met in a wonderful way.

Speaker 1 That's how I kind of describe him. I'm such a fan of his.
I wonder if I were acting opposite him, if I would get taken out sometimes.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I get taken out when you're working with someone like that because you've watched them so much and so many things and they're so unique.

Speaker 1 And what he's doing in that movie

Speaker 1 is outrageous.

Speaker 3 Yeah, so there's definitely moments where I'll be like, oh, look what I'm getting a front row seat to see.

Speaker 1 So there's moments where you recognize that, where i'm like oh this is fun yeah i saw the order we had judon you were phenomenal in that area i could imagine some actors today not wanting to play that role because you're playing a real dude bob matthews bob matthews who is a white supremacist who robbed all these banks oh right yes fund his terrorist organization essentially his terrorist organization any reservations for you or like i would leap at that role um you know come on i shouldn't say that that sounds like i want to play crazy

Speaker 1 It's not a bad thing. Dying to get off for a white supremacist.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that didn't work.

Speaker 1 But it's juicy. I'd do it for free.

Speaker 1 I'm just going to go ahead and practice on my own until this comes. I don't even need the script.

Speaker 1 I'll imprompt the whole thing. Make a movie.

Speaker 1 Dex, what are you doing?

Speaker 1 Just character.

Speaker 2 It's scary, though, to say yes to a role like that in a time of cancellation.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Thanks, Monica.
That's what I was trying to say.

Speaker 3 Yeah, you know what the thing was going into that?

Speaker 3 I'd worked with Justin Cozell, the director before. So I trusted him and I knew his approach to making these movies and telling difficult stories.
Like I played a villain in his other movie as well.

Speaker 3 And it was so unexpected, the process of working with him because his movies are pretty dark and intense and wonderful performances.

Speaker 3 So I got to the set on the first one we did together and I was like, ooh. How's it going to be? And then it was so relaxed and caring and nurturing and he was so warm.

Speaker 3 And I was like, oh, this isn't what I expected. So when it was him directing and he sent me that script, I was like, I trust the process and I'm going to be okay with him.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but it's one of those to be good, which you are, you have to find sympathy. You have to be believable.
You have to understand the point of view of these awful people. And that's tough.

Speaker 3 That's interesting as well. You have to put judgment aside in some regards.
But that's, again, how Justin's so good as a director. He'll look at the characters.

Speaker 3 Obviously, as the audience, you can have your opinion, but he tries to look at them objectively and give them as much context around their lives.

Speaker 1 Yeah, what seemed like an easy anchor for that character was the hate and the bigotry and all that.

Speaker 1 That to me is kind of like the downriver symptom of something else that this guy clearly had, which is like he wants to be a leader of people. He wants to be an elder.
He feels small.

Speaker 1 These things are kind of human things we could latch onto. And I guess it's a testament to that director because that to me was palpable.

Speaker 3 Yeah. From the outside, you look at it and you clearly clearly see the hatred and all the terrible ideology that he's spewing and what's not true about it.

Speaker 3 But then, when you're researching and learning about that person and their life and their beliefs, you have to kind of understand what it is that convinced them that those things are true and also what they believe they're protecting and the love that they're believing that they're presenting for themselves and their family and their dreams and all this sort of stuff.

Speaker 3 They have to believe in that. So, you have to kind of switch your brain around a little bit into that.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I guess the reason I said I would

Speaker 1 We don't need to go circle back to that.

Speaker 1 Dig the hole deeper.

Speaker 1 How about this? This is a much more PG way to say it. I do think there's something crazy exhilarating about playing someone you're not supposed to be.

Speaker 3 Yeah. In life, we're all trying to live and do the best we can.
It's a majority of the time.

Speaker 1 It's a freebie. It's like you can go for three months and play Lex Luthor, play a villain, and be an asshole.
I only got to do once.

Speaker 1 I was a bad guy in one comedy, and it was the most fun I think I've ever had.

Speaker 3 Did you feel it was quite freeing in a way?

Speaker 1 Yes. It's like, oh, every time I think of what you should not do, that's what you do.

Speaker 3 There is something very fun about playing villains.

Speaker 1 Totally. Like you walk into a room, you see a guy in a wheelchair, and the first thought you have is like, don't say anything about running or anything that might make this person feel awkward.

Speaker 1 Okay, you got that. Really gone off the rails.

Speaker 1 What would you do as a villain? I mean, no, I don't. Does it appeal to you at all to be a villain? Yes.

Speaker 2 We all have dark parts. And to be able to not suppress those, but release those, yes, I get that.
Okay. I don't see someone in a wheelchair and go like,

Speaker 2 I don't know what to say anymore. Oh, you don't.
I don't.

Speaker 1 And I know that's my

Speaker 1 oh fuck, this guy doesn't have an ear. I just panic about what I could do wrong.

Speaker 2 You think it's accidentally going to like come out and you're going to hurt someone? Yes. I don't have that.

Speaker 1 You don't have it. Do you have it at all? Where you like quickly evaluate what not to say in a room? Maybe too late.

Speaker 3 I i don't evaluate quick enough after brad pitt walks away and then i'm like oh i shouldn't have said that in hindsight now i realize that was not the thing to say i don't think i have it as strongly as you do maybe i'm happy to be unique with it i think you're right i think it might be almost like an ocd tendency i think so i think it's a common thing there's definitely an evolution and that's built into us since we're being kids as well it's like right don't stare don't do this don't do that don't say that yeah i'm the opposite if i'm with you or our friend jess who's similar i'm just aware of what you're gonna do or what he's gonna do that's a problem.

Speaker 3 You're putting out fires and you're branded.

Speaker 1 Yes, already.

Speaker 2 I'm like, how am I going to counteract when he stares?

Speaker 1 So we're engaged in the same battle.

Speaker 3 I'm like, the battle of good and evil.

Speaker 1 Don't do this.

Speaker 1 And you're like, if he does it, what am I going to do? Yeah.

Speaker 3 That's great that you're working on the same thing.

Speaker 1 Teammates. I don't know why you're upset.

Speaker 2 I know it.

Speaker 1 I know it.

Speaker 1 What were we talking about? Oh, just pretending to be. I just saw.
You were so great in that. Thank you.
And then I do want to ask you about juror number two, just for a second. No.
Clint Eastwood.

Speaker 1 i've had friends that have worked for him he was 94 when you guys worked together 93 he's now 94 i think he's going to be 95 next week oh wow yes and he famously does one take i even heard a story a friend that worked with him where it's like they were doing a rehearsal and they rolled on rehearsal and it was like bombs and pyrotechnics and some of them didn't go and then he was like okay great never

Speaker 1 that was a rehearsal but he's like kind of famous for this is it nerve-wracking I was lucky.

Speaker 3 I had a really good experience because I went from doing Nasfara to straight into the order straight into juror number two. So I had literally a weekend between each shoot.

Speaker 3 And Rob Eggers, you shoot on film and it's kind of longer setup takes where you might end up doing 30 takes because you needed to get it all right in that single shot because that's the scene.

Speaker 3 You can't cut around and edit things. And then Justin for the order, Justin goes, oh, you're shooting on film and he's exploring a lot with the character.

Speaker 3 You know, you walk away at the end of the day and you're like, oh, I don't know what that will be in terms of how that will play the scene in the edit, what they're going to pick up on.

Speaker 3 And then Clint, yeah, is basically one take, sometimes two, which is quite a jump for me coming from the other two where I'm like, oh, yeah, okay.

Speaker 3 But there's a wonderful thing where you're like, well, it's Clint Eastwood. And he's made countless brilliant movies and given so many wonderful performances.
You're like, so if anyone he knows.

Speaker 3 Yeah, this is the guy to trust with that. He plays jazz, piano, and stuff.
And it's like playing jazz, I suppose, in a way, where you just trust the process of it. And it's difficult to let go.

Speaker 3 I wouldn't say the first take is always my best take. We stood there one day and sat and I was like, so how do you act?

Speaker 1 Hey, Clint, quick question. How do you act? Because I'm trying to figure it out over here.

Speaker 1 We're pretty deep into this and I should have asked you earlier.

Speaker 3 Week one, and I don't know what I'm doing here. He was like, Oh, well, it's an emotional art form, so you don't think too much, just do, just feel it.

Speaker 3 And I was like, Oh, that's so simple with everything else going on sometimes in our brains and whatever. You can kind of forget those things, I guess, just to keep it simple.

Speaker 3 And I think he's a believer in the story and a believer in the process and trust in the audience. And he just puts it out there.
And I think that's why his movies are so good.

Speaker 1 Did you feel a kind of crazy pressure when you had like a bigger scene in it? Like, I'm only going to get one of these. I got to really deliver immediately.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I feel pressured with that even if I'm getting more takes. And I think it's probably good for me in some ways because otherwise I'll keep going, keep going.
I'll do one more and more.

Speaker 3 And it's like, really, am I making any difference at this point?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I learned that about you in a different interview. You said that.
That is who you are on site.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the only chance.
And then in theory, it lives forever.

Speaker 1 When I want extra takes, it's because they've let the reins off and they're letting me improv and I'm finding a fun thing and I want to see where it can go. So it's totally driven by fun.

Speaker 3 I'm driven by pure fear.

Speaker 1 Is it fear?

Speaker 3 Yeah. Have I done everything?

Speaker 3 Have I given what it needs are they going to be able to tell the story here in the edit it's a little bit of that has that evolved over time no it probably should now you say it

Speaker 3 but you know what what you say about having fun i do find that normally if i'm having fun doing a performance then people react better to it they can feel it and it's not even to say that i'm having fun in a way like oh this is a fun character it could be like having fun playing an evil person there's still something where i'm enjoying the process of it so people seem to pick up on that that seems very very on display in the great yeah yeah that would be an example of that where i was was having a great time.

Speaker 1 Burberry.

Speaker 1 Oh, you didn't expect that one, guys.

Speaker 2 I just had a left-handed turn. But I like it.
I'm a recent convert.

Speaker 3 How come?

Speaker 1 Beckham the Doc. Oh, really? Did you watch The Doc?

Speaker 3 I didn't watch The Doc. I've only seen that brilliant clip where Victoria's talking about being driven to school, and then David just sticks his head through the door.

Speaker 1 You were driven to school in a Rolls-Royce. Yeah, shut up.

Speaker 1 That's the best part of it.

Speaker 2 I grew up in a modest

Speaker 1 house.

Speaker 1 It's such a brilliant clip.

Speaker 3 I need to watch the full documentary. But what is it in the documentary?

Speaker 1 He's so cool. I can't stand it.
You must have already thought that because you're from England.

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was just chatting to someone yesterday.
One of the first times I remember crying at a sporting event was when we got knocked out of the World Cup in 98.

Speaker 1 Was that the pink card thing or the red card? Red card, yeah. And that's when England turned on him.

Speaker 3 We were very unhappy because he kicked someone.

Speaker 1 But not really when you watched the documentary.

Speaker 3 Really? But you get a red card for it and he was off.

Speaker 2 Oh, no. Were you one of the haters?

Speaker 3 No, I was too young to really be a hater.

Speaker 1 I was just heartbroken.

Speaker 1 They would like like build puppets of him and then burn no it was 98 i was eight years old you didn't go to the pub that had him hanging from a news exactly i built that oh my god so you're not eight-year-old i was just at home crying on the sofa i remember oh but he's so cool and he's clearly wearing lots of burberry one of his teammates has a burberry hoodie i had to order while i was watching you've got the burberry hoodie yes and then i learned this whole history i didn't know about from my aforementioned english friend that hooligans wore burberry this was the thing and i don't know if burberry have kept this in but you know, when you do like the little stuff behind the scenes clips or whatever, they were like, when did you first learn about Burberry?

Speaker 3 And I was like, oh, it was going to like a market in Liverpool. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And they heard all like the knockoff fakes.

Speaker 3 And that's when I first became aware of that pattern and how iconic it was, the brand, I suppose, in many ways, because I was like, oh, people are imitating this and you can buy it cheap here in the market.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Burberry hated that fact that the hooligans took that on as their official wardrobe.

Speaker 3 Yeah, they probably don't like me talking about that.

Speaker 1 And they're like, let's just get some fun social stuff.

Speaker 3 And I'm like, yeah, I learned about it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that time those four guys were beating up those two men in their Burberry.

Speaker 1 I thought, I want to wear that. That looks incredible.

Speaker 2 So are you a red, like a, what are they called?

Speaker 3 I just did one of their campaigns.

Speaker 2 You don't have to like wear them on red carpets and stuff.

Speaker 1 I don't think so. It wasn't a lifetime contract.

Speaker 2 You laugh. It's a real thing.
Emma Stone has one with Louis Vuitton, so she has to wear a certain amount of Louis Vuitton on the red carpet. Natalie Portman has Dior.
I know a lot of stuff.

Speaker 3 Maybe if I keep saying it in this interview, maybe they will

Speaker 1 block me up for life. They should.
He was in the It's Always Burberry weather campaign. And he was in rain, and it was rom-com.
It was like Nodstrom. It wasn't trivial.

Speaker 3 English rom-com.

Speaker 1 And then he had to do press about it. And then they would ask him what his favorite English rom-com.
And it's Notting Hill, if you're hearing. I do love Nottingham Hill.

Speaker 1 I do love Nodding Hill.

Speaker 1 What does she say? I'm just a girl.

Speaker 3 Standing in front of a boy.

Speaker 1 Boy.

Speaker 2 Asking her to love him.

Speaker 1 Oh, what magic. Do you follow? I imagine you have to.

Speaker 1 It's a great movie. Do you follow Hugh Grant?

Speaker 3 Do I follow him just in general?

Speaker 1 My experience with him is I just watched Heretic. We bought Heretic.
So good, isn't it? So good.

Speaker 3 I love watching Hugh. He's someone who's having fun.

Speaker 2 Yes, absolutely.

Speaker 3 And it's fun to watch. And he's so smart.
He's brilliant.

Speaker 1 He's perfect. He's just had this interesting ebb and flow to his career where it's like you keep getting reminded he's perfect.

Speaker 3 I was watching some of the old Merchant Ivory movies the other day before, I guess, his jump into that iconic rom-com era of his career.

Speaker 1 And I was thinking for you, being a little boy, having worked with him, do you also also watch him and then have even yet another layer of like, just stoked you know him and you've known him for most of your life?

Speaker 3 Yeah, it's fun. You know, I ran into him last year at something and it was lovely because you had a proper catch up and a good little giggle, which was nice.

Speaker 3 And I'm hoping that we're going to do something together again.

Speaker 1 Oh, no. Oh,

Speaker 1 about a grandpa.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Just a pitch. Just me hobbling around going, oh, my niece.

Speaker 1 We were so young.

Speaker 2 Oh, about a boy. That movie, it gave me the feeling.
What feeling?

Speaker 2 so i have a thing called the feeling it's not a good feeling i can't really put my finger on it but there are certain movies and tv shows that give it to me i think in that movie it was so real and sad and scary because the mom dies

Speaker 2 yeah that's at the beginning of the movie it was a long time ago as soon as that happened i was like oh my god this movie's too much for you too much overwhelming i was little i mean that was sad you were supposed to say i'm sorry yeah this is your fault so this is your chance to apologize what else have you recently had the feeling oh that's a great question so i would say my recently would be did you watch adolescence yes the end of adolescence oh my gosh i was just sitting there shattered that was the first time for a while i've turned something off and just sat there and been like i know that one is a hard watch but an important watch yeah yeah great show and you have a little boy

Speaker 3 yeah yeah does that scare you Yeah, internet culture. I mean, we didn't grow up with it.
When the internet was first coming around for me, it was dial-up. You went and sat on the desktop.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Downloaded a picture of foods.

Speaker 1 You had to really earn your picture on the business.

Speaker 3 If you were downloading music, you'd be like, this file is corrupt. And after a while, you wouldn't be able to find one that wasn't.
Like, hell, I need this song, whatever.

Speaker 1 And then your parents' computer would shut down.

Speaker 3 And they'd be like, why is that computer completely fried? And you'd be like, sorry.

Speaker 2 I know. And these kids have so much access now to everything.
It's a worry.

Speaker 3 That's what the brilliant thing about that show is bringing away because even all the emojis and all that sort of stuff.

Speaker 1 I was reading about those afterwards.

Speaker 1 And I was like, huh, oh, would you look at that? It's bizarre.

Speaker 3 And it's an interesting thing.

Speaker 3 Whenever you learn about playing these characters, you go into this kind of little hole of learning and then you watch your algorithms and you watch everything change and the things that are recommended to you.

Speaker 3 And you watch that and you go, oh, it's so easy. You see how fragile our brains are in terms of how easily manipulated they are in a few different inputs.

Speaker 3 And suddenly you're like down the rabbit hole. So it's an interesting thing to be aware of.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's interesting. I didn't even think about that if you're actively researching A white supremacist.
Yeah, you're constantly kind of resetting your algorithm.

Speaker 3 Yeah, you watch different things pop up where you're like, huh, that's not in agreement with what I believe or think.

Speaker 1 That happened to me in January where I had to reset my algorithm on Instagram. It's either from several comedians I follow or some of these off-road accounts I follow.

Speaker 1 But all of a sudden I was just seeing blatantly racist posts. which I didn't even think were on Instagram, to be honest.
And I was just like, what happened? And it happened really quick.

Speaker 1 I was like, I got to reset this.

Speaker 3 How did you reset it?

Speaker 1 You You can reset your algorithm. You just go into your settings and it'll have wipe your thing and reset your algorithm.
And you can do that. Like you should probably after every roll.

Speaker 1 Go and reset. Okay, let's talk about Superman.
Oh, yes. Ooh, am I excited that you're in Superman? Me too.

Speaker 2 That is so exciting.

Speaker 1 Did you have to earn this one? Because I'm assuming a lot of these you've been offered.

Speaker 3 Yeah, no, I auditioned for Superman. Audition for Superman.

Speaker 1 Oh, did you?

Speaker 3 And then James called me and was like, how about playing Lex Luther?

Speaker 1 And I was like, yeah, okay, great.

Speaker 3 Which is interesting because I talked to James and Peter a little bit. And then I read it.
There was a little gut instinct where I was like, huh, I might be a bit alex.

Speaker 1 While you were reading it.

Speaker 3 I was reading the Lex scenes and I was like, oh, this could be fun. And then was like, oh, no, don't get distracted.
So then when he called me and said that, I was like, huh, this makes more sense.

Speaker 3 So it worked out perfectly.

Speaker 1 I just imagine the bad guy is going to have like three blockbuster scenes. The intro to the bad guy is going to be a great scene.

Speaker 3 Hopefully.

Speaker 2 You've seen it.

Speaker 1 I haven't seen it. Oh, you have?

Speaker 3 I have not seen it yet. Just seen a few little bits for doing ADR and stuff.
And it looks epic. And I mean, the script that James wrote was fantastic.

Speaker 2 We're having him on as well. So it's going to be a Superman week.

Speaker 3 Oh, Superman Week. It's finally here.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. Superman week.
Have you had him on before? No.

Speaker 3 Oh, great. You'll have fun with James.
I think I messaged him on Instagram at some point. It was like, hey, cool that you're the head of DC.

Speaker 1 If there's ever a role.

Speaker 1 Yeah, while you've been there.

Speaker 3 He usually slides people's DMs.

Speaker 1 Here I am.

Speaker 1 Oh, nice. You were proactive.
Yeah, which I don't normally do that.

Speaker 1 I've heard for some of these superhero movies, so much is being bet on it that they'll they'll film your audition and actually show it at a theater and they'll show multiple. Did that happen to you?

Speaker 3 I think there were screenings of different versions of combinations of cast put together.

Speaker 1 Get a little test on the audience.

Speaker 3 I don't know if it was in front of an audience, but or just other DC and Warner Brothers people. James will probably be able to give you better answers.

Speaker 3 But yeah, they certainly put people through the ringer a little bit.

Speaker 1 Do you know who your competitors were?

Speaker 3 Well, David, who got cast.

Speaker 1 Okay,

Speaker 1 congrats, David.

Speaker 3 I was so happy for him because genuinely when I met him, I met him there. And it was funny, Superman gets his powers from the sun.

Speaker 3 We were in one of these studios in LA and I walked out from doing one of the scenes and there was like mostly shadows from how the sun was setting.

Speaker 3 But then in one patch of sunlight, David had taken a chair and sat down and was just like enjoying the warmth of the sun. And I was like, God damn.

Speaker 1 He was born to play. I was like, look at this guy.
He lives.

Speaker 3 And I met him and he embodies everything that you'd hope for that character to be.

Speaker 1 How's his physique?

Speaker 3 Brilliant.

Speaker 1 Gorgeous. Did you guys live together?

Speaker 3 We did a little bit.

Speaker 3 Silly story. I remember I was chatting to my wife one night.
She was like, it's so nice to be held by someone bigger than you. And she was like, you don't really get that, do you?

Speaker 3 And I was like, no, I guess I don't. We're sitting there and she was like, yeah, no one's really big enough to hold you.
And she was like, David could hold you.

Speaker 2 Why don't you ask him? I did.

Speaker 1 You did? Yeah.

Speaker 3 And it felt warm and safe. But I felt the same thing when you held me, when you hugged me today.
And I was like, oh, yeah, that's the strength I need. That's the support I need.

Speaker 1 I was one time picked up like a baby by Shaquille O'Neal. and it was one of the most fun feelings I've ever had, where he put his hands under my armpits and lifted me up like a child.

Speaker 3 Did you ask him to do this?

Speaker 1 No, I was walking into a premiere in Westwood, and I was behind him, and I had never even met him. It was, again, one of these huge swings.

Speaker 1 Excuse me, I like to be the tallest person at these things. You're going to have to leave, sir.
I just say that from behind him, and he turns around, and then he did know who I was, thank God.

Speaker 1 And then he picked me up like a baby.

Speaker 2 Did he kiss you on the cheek?

Speaker 1 No, he didn't kiss me. I would have loved it if he tickled me.

Speaker 1 He's like the goo-goo guy. Yeah, he kissed my neck,

Speaker 1 smelled my head, and told me I smell so good. Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 It is a weird feeling. It's nice to be like, oh, yeah, I'm a little person again.
The coach of Detroit is insane. He was a player and he's enormous.
He looks like a water buffalo.

Speaker 1 He's just like all traps. And I hugged him right before the game and the playoffs.
And I was telling Monica, it was such a weird feeling to think, oh, if Lions came into the arena, Dan's got it.

Speaker 1 I'm off the clock.

Speaker 1 Someone here is definitely in charge. It's not me.
It was a very comforting feeling. Yeah, you feel safe.
If all hell breaks loose, Dan is the one who's supposed to go deal with it.

Speaker 3 And that's genuinely what you were thinking at that time. You're like, if lions get into this arena.

Speaker 1 I generally self-appoint myself the person that's going to have to fight the lions. Interesting.
As you should, you're tallest.

Speaker 3 If lions broke into the stadium, I'd be like, we're all just running, right? I wouldn't be like, don't worry, guys, I'm going to fight.

Speaker 2 Okay, see, that's a different personality.

Speaker 1 That's not what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to go, I got all these rewards for being tall, and now there's the.

Speaker 3 There's a thousand people there, and I go, I'm the one. It's me.

Speaker 1 That's me. I'm the one.
Also, we're saying lions and the teams. I was afraid of

Speaker 1 the people.

Speaker 2 Detroit lions. You mean lions, the animal, not when the team comes in.

Speaker 1 That's right. The team is the animal.

Speaker 3 The real lions have escaped. I'd get on the PA system and be like, everyone, stay in your seats, watch this.

Speaker 3 I've got it.

Speaker 1 They just watch me go. Everybody, get your cameras ready.

Speaker 3 Limb from limb and eating.

Speaker 1 And I keep watching. You're going to want to run video, not pictures.

Speaker 3 I'm still pretending to be asleep. They can see my spleen being pulled out of my body.

Speaker 1 Sorry. Is this some sort of art project?

Speaker 2 Do you think if you're on an airplane because you drive cars.

Speaker 3 Oh, this is the thing about if you could land it.

Speaker 2 Yes, if the pilot has a C-shirt, God forbid, and they say, who knows how to fly a plane? Would you offer yourself up for that?

Speaker 3 I saw this. This is like a fact that one in two men think that they could, right? My dad was a pilot.

Speaker 2 Oh, no. So you definitely think you can.

Speaker 3 So, no, I think I probably more air on the reality of like, I probably can't.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's good.

Speaker 3 I had one flying lesson, it was really surprisingly difficult because I was like, I want to learn to fly. I'm competent in cars and bikes and things.

Speaker 3 And I'm like, okay, there's so many more controls, even in the tiny little airplane. Where I was like, oh my gosh, and trimming and this and that.

Speaker 1 And you're just staring at dials.

Speaker 3 If they were like, hey, we need someone and there's no one. And they're like, look, dude, can you call your dad? Can he tell you what to do?

Speaker 1 And I'll call him and be like, dad, daddy, dad, daddy. Papa, you're on FaceTime.

Speaker 3 Which button do I push? What do I do? I'd like to think then that perhaps it would still be a disaster. Because also, if you've got to try and hit the runway, right?

Speaker 1 Daddy, I'm flying a commercial airliner.

Speaker 3 This is BA-5456.

Speaker 1 He's like, what are you doing? Do you want to hear how arrogant I am? I'm more afraid of having to talk in that gibberish over the CB than I am actually landing the plane.

Speaker 1 Like, I can't say 7-9 are cleared for, you know, all that.

Speaker 3 Well, I think if you're stepping in, they don't expect you to do all the radio shots.

Speaker 1 Thank God. Sure, sure enough.

Speaker 3 They're like, you are not cleared for landing. You have not done the code right.

Speaker 1 To be clear, I don't think I can land one. Like, I just think I can land one.
What I think is once we've asked, are there any pilots on board? And there aren't, I do think I'm the next best option.

Speaker 1 If someone has to hear what to do and implement it, I think I'm a good pick.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I can follow instructions.

Speaker 1 That's basically my job.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but isn't it very, I mean, I guess you guys are mechanical, but we decided that actually the best person would be the video gamer.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. I don't trust.
Okay. No, this is like sim guys who think they're fast on a track.

Speaker 3 I trust the sim guy who's landed planes on the sim, who's done like sim flying.

Speaker 1 I'd be like, well, he should roughly. That's a great point.

Speaker 3 They should come over to the town and be like, hey, we got any pilots. Okay.
Have we got any guys who like to fly planes on video games?

Speaker 1 Exactly.

Speaker 3 None of those either.

Speaker 1 And Jackson's like, I guess, I guess. Well, if they have like a sheet, they go through.
Any pilots?

Speaker 1 Any gamers? No.

Speaker 1 Any model airplane hobbyist?

Speaker 1 Okay, back to Superman. James Gunn, one of his signature talents, is pairing these sequences with perfect songs.

Speaker 1 And I guess I'm curious, are those pre-planned to the degree, does he ever play the song that would be in the movie for you when you're doing a scene?

Speaker 3 Not specifically for this, but he did send me like a piece of the score before we started filming. So I had part of the score that's for the finale, I guess, of Lex's part of the story.

Speaker 3 That I had for months before we started tuning, which was interesting. And I realize now it's a slightly psychotic behavior, perhaps, but I got into cold plunging.

Speaker 3 I'd say it was like part of the prep. I was trying to get strong and blah, blah, blah, and all this.
And I was reading all these things.

Speaker 3 And And then I was cold plunging and I would sit in the dark in this cold plunge, listening to this music like full blare on repeat over and over again.

Speaker 3 And then whilst we were filming that scene, James had that playing through the speakers on the set. I'd listened to it so many times, thinking about that moment.

Speaker 3 Being in the cold water is kind of a torturous situation. Yeah, somewhat, but then you're kind of mind over matter.
You're kind of putting your body through some sort of wall.

Speaker 3 So there's a bit of that. And then being put into the filming scenario and having that same thing.
It was interesting.

Speaker 1 That's where it started for me. And I think a lot of people can relate to this.
Being a kid walking with my walkman on and you're like, I'm in a movie.

Speaker 2 Imagination.

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah. You're sitting on the bus and you've got a sad song on, you're looking out the window.

Speaker 1 And you're like, you start really envisioning your own experience as a movie. Yeah, you really do.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's fun.

Speaker 1 I think it's so standard. I think everyone does it.
Like my 12-year-old, she'll say to me all the time, she's kind of obsessed with this notion of the Truman show.

Speaker 1 She's like, sometimes I think I'm in the Truman show. And I go, I know, I used to think that all the time, too.

Speaker 3 I wonder if that's like a healthy, in terms of how you're always meant to be able to like put put yourself out of your experiences in some way to understand that.

Speaker 3 I wonder if it's like a healthy thing to imagine it like a movie.

Speaker 1 Well, minimally, it's just interesting that this thing we've all probably, I think a lot of us have been doing for 100 years is only 100 years old.

Speaker 1 No one in 1850 could walk around hearing music and even imagining what a movie is like. What a weird space.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but music's been around since the beginning of time.

Speaker 1 You just couldn't listen to it while you were doing something. Yeah.
Like you couldn't be scoring your own life. There was no walkman's.

Speaker 1 You might walk by some guy's tooting a trombone, ding, ding, ding.

Speaker 1 He studied trombone as a kid.

Speaker 1 I don't remember that from last time.

Speaker 1 I don't think he's a great one either. He just played a bigger.

Speaker 1 Ding, ding, ding. Zylom.

Speaker 1 I'm like, oh.

Speaker 2 Because it also kind of sounds like a sex thing.

Speaker 1 Well, it is the rusty trombone.

Speaker 3 But when you follow it with ding, ding, ding, as well.

Speaker 1 Exactly. It makes it super sexual.

Speaker 1 I was like, oh,

Speaker 1 Phil Scene.

Speaker 2 No, music. Music, I feel like, has always instigated memory or like your place in time, even though we didn't have all these other layers on top of it, which now we do.

Speaker 2 I think that was like the initial.

Speaker 1 It's just interesting. You think of how like technology changes your brain.
The famous one is that book, Weirdest People on the Planet. What's that?

Speaker 1 It's this incredible book about how weird Westerners are. Weird stands for Western, Educated, Industrial.

Speaker 2 Rich. Rich and Democratic.

Speaker 1 Democratic. And that the process of learning to read, which is so new, really, until Martin Luther in 1492, the literacy rate was like under 1%.

Speaker 1 And then he goes on this mission to teach everyone to read so they can read the Bible. And then within decades, the numbers are going up and up and up until you get to like nine.

Speaker 1 Well, that cognitive action of reading rewires your brain. You lose certain things and you gain certain things.
For everyone who read, their brains were structurally different.

Speaker 1 So they're like computing the world differently, all because of this technology that came out of book reading, this abstract thing we do. And then I just think, yeah, and then movies are a thing.

Speaker 1 And then for the last hundred years, I think most people daydream of themselves in a movie or some movie version of their life.

Speaker 3 Is it the same sort of daydreaming as when you daydream about a book, the movie that you play in your mind? Is it still the same sort of daydreaming?

Speaker 1 So I was just thinking that same thing as I was saying. It's like, yeah, where people reading little women and they were walking to the store and they're like, oh, I'm one of the little women.

Speaker 1 Maybe you put yourself in books.

Speaker 2 I think more so with books.

Speaker 1 You are at the center of a book when you are reading and it's whatever, third person or first person it's you i mean with like a mask on obviously but you're walking through the world in a movie there's some separation so i think with books probably even more so yeah people probably just thought of their lives as a novel yeah oh yeah i'm the lead character of this novel is that where that lingo of like the end of this chapter the beginning is that where it comes from maybe right just another chapter of your life okay now let's talk about the people who have come before you gene hackman as lex luther not just in general everyone that's been born before 1990.

Speaker 1 It's going to take a while. Yeah.
Monica, get the list. There were no born before 1990.
No.

Speaker 1 Yeah, did you see that movie as a kid or did you have to watch it as an adult in preparation for this?

Speaker 3 I'd seen it as a kid, but I watched it as an adult again.

Speaker 3 I love Gene. I mean, what an actor.
Come on. He's given some of the all-time performances.
I was just watching Hoosiers again the other night.

Speaker 1 No one gets angry like Gene Hackman. He's the best.

Speaker 3 One of my favorite films is Unforgiven, and Clint directed Gene in that. We screened it whilst we're filming during number two.
We ran it out of the theater and watched that

Speaker 3 on the big screen and watching him in that again was just magical. All-time great.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Okay, now shaving your head.
Do you have any fear? And it's now compounded by this blonde thing. Do you have any fear when you shave your head, like, I wonder how much is going to grow back?

Speaker 3 No, I'd shaved my head before for my max. It grew back.

Speaker 1 And now you're dying. Every time I had to do this, I'm like, how much is going to come back?

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah. Well, I guess I'm more conscious of that now.
Yeah, where I'm like,

Speaker 3 when they're putting on the chemicals, I'm like, is this going to kill all the pigment?

Speaker 1 Yeah, what are we going to be dealing with at the end of the day?

Speaker 3 The fear is actually settling in more now here talking to you guys. You can probably see the fear on my face more and more.

Speaker 2 That's what we do here, you know?

Speaker 3 Yeah, when you have me on in two years' time, you bring up another phone. You'll be like, remember when you had hair?

Speaker 1 Remember that? Remember that?

Speaker 1 And I'll be like,

Speaker 1 remember your last hairdo? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God. Did you see Friendship? No, what's this? Paul Rudd, Kate Mara.

Speaker 1 Oh, I haven't seen it. Tim Robinson.

Speaker 2 Tim Robinson movie. It's just now.
Do you watch?

Speaker 1 I think you should leave that comedy show on Netflix. It's like a sketch show.

Speaker 2 Oh, it's so tough to watch. You've got to.
It is so funny. So bizarre.
He's a one-of-one

Speaker 2 comedian. Anyway, they have a new movie, and Paul Rudd is wearing, I mean, it's a spoiler, I guess, a toupee, but you don't know until towards the end of the movie, it falls off.

Speaker 2 It's just so wild and bonkers, and it falls off, and he looks crazy. And I did think, oh, wow, so much of him is his hair.

Speaker 2 It really is doing a lot we take for granted. Building the pressure.

Speaker 3 Yeah, you're compounding. This is getting worse by the second.

Speaker 1 There's very few things you can feel bad for boys for, but this is one. It's like you're a boy and you're just like, wow, TikTok.
When does this, you know? Well, for women, too,

Speaker 2 it thins out.

Speaker 1 It thins out, yeah. Women generally don't have male pattern boldness.

Speaker 2 Generally, yeah, generally.

Speaker 3 So you got to get rosemary oil. It's the thing, right?

Speaker 1 I'll do that. I'm in a full-fledged battle to keep my hair.

Speaker 3 I think that's something.

Speaker 1 I have a topical I'm putting on night and evening.

Speaker 2 Probably just rosemary oil.

Speaker 1 Twice a day.

Speaker 1 Night and evening.

Speaker 1 I do it at 7 p.m. and at 9 p.m.

Speaker 1 What's your emotional attachment to all of it in terms of I'm fearful it's not going to last forever or you've been doing it for so fucking long, you do have the confidence it's going to last forever.

Speaker 1 Do you have that rumination? How many days off from a movie before you start panicking or is that past?

Speaker 3 There's still that like, ooh, and it's still very much the thing of, oh, I've got a lot to prove. I feel like I'm just at the beginning of like, let's grind.
Yeah. Let's get to work

Speaker 3 in a fun way. But also after doing Nosferatu in the Order and Jura back-to-back, the end of that year, I sat there.

Speaker 3 I was on my birthday and I don't always do this, but I sat around and I was just contemplating. Normally, everything's happening so quick that I don't.

Speaker 3 I sat there and I was like, oh, this is kind of exactly where you wanted to be 10 years ago. You could have said you worked with those three directors back-to-back.

Speaker 3 That's crime, what you wanted career-wise. So, great, proud of that.
But then, also, where do you build on what's the next steps?

Speaker 3 I'm just putting my legs up, not because I'm a bad guest, but just because my legs started.

Speaker 1 No, no, no, my knee is just say because

Speaker 1 do we need to rub your legs?

Speaker 3 I've got my sleeve on.

Speaker 1 I'm going to cumbersome. I got your pants off first of all.
I brought some of the ointment and oil.

Speaker 1 Get you out of those restrictive pants. I've got a plane to land.

Speaker 1 Get the mic dice and close so people can listen. Nicholas, I adore you.
I adore you. I do hope we end up on a racetrack at some point.

Speaker 3 We've got to. I haven't been on bikes for a while.

Speaker 2 Let's deal with your leg first.

Speaker 1 Well, we'll do cars.

Speaker 3 Now it's probably not the time to be back on a bike.

Speaker 2 I would give yourself a second. Take it easy.

Speaker 1 I'm happy in a car. Let's do cars.

Speaker 3 Father's Day.

Speaker 1 Father's Day. Oh, yeah.
Our Father's Day.

Speaker 3 She's like a lemons race or something. Yes.

Speaker 1 That would be fantastic. Superman comes out July 11th.
7-Eleven.

Speaker 1 7-Eleven. Can't be an accident.
Everyone's like, we got to get that date, 7-Eleven. Everyone knows 7-Eleven.

Speaker 1 July 11th. Everyone, go see Superman, and I cannot wait to see how to rob a bank.
Thanks. You plus David Leach.
What could be better? Come back again. I will.

Speaker 1 Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert.

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Speaker 1 I sure hope there weren't any mistakes in that episode, but we'll find out when my mom, Mrs. Monica, comes in and tells us what was wrong.

Speaker 2 So, we're zoomies today. Yeah, Zoom recording.

Speaker 1 Summertime Zooms.

Speaker 2 And you are in Nashville. You made your way there.

Speaker 1 I am. Do you want me to spin my camera around so you can see what my looks out my window?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay, here we go.

Speaker 1 I'm doing a bad job looking out my window.

Speaker 1 Well, you can't even see. Can you see the lake? You can't even see.

Speaker 2 I can't see the lake. I see a lot of trees.

Speaker 1 Sure, that's good. Trees are good.
Did you have to curb your good time last night so that you could wake up so early?

Speaker 2 No, I did. I was out late last night, which I was unexpected.
I don't really stay out late anymore.

Speaker 1 No, no, no. You're,

Speaker 1 you're, you know, this year you're a middle-aged woman.

Speaker 2 How dare you? I'm still early.

Speaker 2 Actually, that reminds me that on maybe it was on an Armchair Anonymous. I can't remember.
I said something like, I look young. And you, and you said, you were like, do you?

Speaker 2 And I don't know if you were just nagging me, but we had a tiff about that. And then since then, I've been carted basically every single place I go.

Speaker 1 Really? People think you're 20 or less.

Speaker 2 So I went to Cookbook, which is a very cute grocery store here here in Los Angeles, and I bought a bottle of wine.

Speaker 2 And she,

Speaker 1 the girl asked for my ID.

Speaker 2 And then she looked at it for a minute. And then she gave it back.
And like 30 seconds later, she was, she looked at me and she said, you look so young.

Speaker 1 Oh, really?

Speaker 2 And I like, and she was kind of like, mad. Like, I think she, maybe she thought it was a fake idea.
Like, I don't know. She was very, she was like, like, you look 20.

Speaker 2 And I said, oh, well, I'm at the age where I will take it.

Speaker 2 And she, and I said, how old are you? And she said, 25.

Speaker 2 Oh, wow. So she thought she was older than me.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow.

Speaker 1 Let's go back to your night last night because you had a late one and I want to hear what was happening.

Speaker 2 So it's our, in a couple of days is our friend's birthday.

Speaker 1 Anna. Oh, okay.
Great. How old is she turning?

Speaker 2 Jesus is age 33. We went to Atwater.
Atwater is a new place I've been going to a lot. McCall's is there.

Speaker 2 Butcher that used to be down the street from us that moved to Atwater, which is the bane of my existence.

Speaker 1 Heartbreaking for me. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So sad.

Speaker 1 Best ground beef in the city. Maybe 50% fat, I'm guessing.
I mean, it's so fatty, which I love. You can't, at the grocery store, they're not going to push it beyond 20% fat.

Speaker 1 And I don't want to get sued by McCall's, but I will say I think they're in the high 50s.

Speaker 1 And you can taste that.

Speaker 2 And they have like farmers market vegetables and fruits and sauces and treats. They have all kinds of things there.
I love it there.

Speaker 2 Anyway, there's also all these cute stores on the street and little restaurants and bars. And so we went to this outdoor little restaurant and we hung out there.
And then we went to another one.

Speaker 1 Pub crawl.

Speaker 2 I guess it turned into a little bit of a pub crawl. The second location I defined as rustic.
That's a word I took from Callie,

Speaker 2 which means kind of shitty.

Speaker 1 Yeah, with charming shitty, right?

Speaker 2 But okay, so does everyone consider rustic that?

Speaker 1 Yeah, rustic is definitely shitty, but charming. Ye old rustic inn.
You wouldn't name your bar ye old rustic inn, like ye old shithole.

Speaker 1 They're saying, like, yeah it's a dump but hey it's got some charm you're gonna have a good time here ye old rustic inn i thought rustic meant like woodsy like i have a very

Speaker 2 i i i thought it meant like a cabin is rustic Yes, but I thought rustic is like equivalent to a cabin. I didn't know it meant like charming shithole.

Speaker 1 Instead of saying it's a shithole, you go like, oh, it was rustic.

Speaker 2 I know, but that's, but it, so it's a euphemism then.

Speaker 1 Yeah, for dump, but implicit in that euphemism is it has to have some charm or it would just be a lie.

Speaker 2 Right. But I didn't know that.
So when one time Callie and I went to a

Speaker 2 hotel in, and there were some problems with the hotel. It was a nice hotel, but there were like some issues with it.
And she kept calling it rustic.

Speaker 2 And I.

Speaker 2 I thought it was very funny. And I also thought it was a total misuse of the word, but turns out I was wrong.
I guess I owe her an apology.

Speaker 1 No, no, no, you are right. She was making a great joke.
If it's supposed to be nice and it's rustic, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 1 If it's a dump, but you find yourself very charmed by it and going, Oh, I want to go back, even though it's kind of a dump, that's rustic.

Speaker 1 If a four seasons doesn't, the commodes are not working in the four seasons, you can't say it's rustic. You go, Oh, it was a fucking terrible four seasons, they need new management,

Speaker 1 right?

Speaker 1 You clear now on rustic,

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 Okay. I still have some questions about it, but I, I, overall, I get it more.
Anyway, I was saying that that place was rustic, but now I think I was using it correctly.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Charming and not nice.

Speaker 2 So we went to one rustic location quickly.

Speaker 2 I didn't really partake there.

Speaker 2 And then we went to dinner down the street. We didn't leave there until 10, 10.

Speaker 1 Oh, really? I don't know if that's terribly late, Monica, for a, um, for a Saturday night. I'm going to open this door.
Maybe that'll give me more bandwidth.

Speaker 2 To me, it felt really late because, you know, I go to bed. I get in bed quite early.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 2 it's a ding, ding, ding, actually. We went to the restaurant called Spina, which came up for our really deep-cut listeners in the Chris Pine episode.
He brought up Spina.

Speaker 2 He said it was a really good restaurant and it is.

Speaker 1 Oh, was that the Italian place? And Rob went, and Rob was like, oh, yeah, it is dynamite.

Speaker 2 Yeah. It was great.

Speaker 1 I'm jealous. I want to go.
I should have gone. So I'm going to suggest something that I, here's my hunch.
So we haven't seen each other in, let's see, what day did I leave? We're on Sunday.

Speaker 1 And I left on a

Speaker 1 Wednesday night after we recorded.

Speaker 1 So a week and a half. Yeah, nine days or so, or whatever, 10, 10 days.
My hunch is that my 10 days feels four times longer than your 10 days.

Speaker 1 Do you feel like the last 10 days off kind of blew by or no?

Speaker 2 I do feel like it's moving too fast.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And have you been panicked at all about that? A little.

Speaker 2 I put an out of office on my email, which is a new thing I tried.

Speaker 1 Uh-huh. How's that going?

Speaker 2 It's only okay because I still check it and I respond.

Speaker 1 That you have an office, that there's an office you're normally at that you're not at now. By the way, I'm going to email you just so I can experience the automatic reply.

Speaker 2 I think today was the last, I think it ended today.

Speaker 1 Oh, it did.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but maybe I'll try it again.

Speaker 1 Okay, so for my 10 days, I feel like it's been about a month and a half. In fact, just yesterday, I was saying to the girls, oh my God, guys, how long ago were we in Idaho?

Speaker 1 Which was technically four days ago but it feels like two weeks ago great so what happened in idaho so we drove up uh well we left um kristen was in vegas doing like a speaking engagement and she was supposed to fly home wednesday night and then we were going to leave super early thursday morning but i decided the girls were anxious i was anxious so we just left wednesday We drove the bus to Vegas to my father-in-law's.

Speaker 1 We have a dog with us. Now, Frank has joined the trip, right? Whiskey didn't make the cut.
He's at home with Peggy, his girlfriend. That's fine.
That's great for him because he's in love with Peggy.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 Frank was a pretty good boy. No complaints there.
I did get into a major traffic jam right when I entered Nevada. if I'm remembering correctly.

Speaker 1 And we did about two hours at 11 p.m., just kind of sitting in the bus in traffic. Rough start, doesn't matter.
Went to

Speaker 1 my father-in-law's house. We went inside.
We slept for about four hours.

Speaker 1 I was completely ashamed of myself because we were on like a Murphy bed that my feet went off the end of.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 it was quite warm in that office that we were sleeping in. And I just, I really couldn't sleep.

Speaker 1 So I just ended up waking up very early on Thursday morning and just got the bus ready and was ready to go.

Speaker 1 And I was ashamed of myself because I realized when Aaron and I were on our road trip after high school, I would have blown a donkey to have that bed in that room because we were living in the car.

Speaker 1 And I realized this is how spoiled and soft I've become that I can't even sleep unless the temperatures right in my feet aren't hanging off the bed. Anyways, who cares? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Got on the road. Probably the best trip we've had in the bus.
There were

Speaker 1 a single issue was the passenger window broke off from the contraption that holds it shut.

Speaker 1 So I was pulling every over every few hours to re-duct tape it because we'd be driving down the highway and the wind, the window would just fly open. But that's light.
That was no sweat.

Speaker 1 Got into

Speaker 1 um Swan Valley, Idaho at a very reasonable time, I think nine o'clock that night on Thursday. And then

Speaker 1 this year's trip was

Speaker 1 different because it was cold, which was shocking because we had just left Vegas where it was 115.

Speaker 1 And then it was like 60 degrees the first day, then 50, you know, in June, kind of wild. But what was lovely.

Speaker 2 That is weird. Yes.

Speaker 1 But what was lovely is I normally have to go whitewater rafting with the girls, which I've now done four or five times. And it's like an hour drive there.

Speaker 1 The trip, you know, down the river is a couple hours and then it's an hour drive back. And I was so exhausted from our previous month of,

Speaker 1 you know, nose to the grindstone. And so you couldn't really do many activities, which was such a blessing.
So I took a nap every day,

Speaker 1 which was heaven.

Speaker 1 I had my new electric dirt bike, my Stark, which is so amazing. I hadn't written it.
So I would just zip around on my dirt bike and

Speaker 1 lots of time chit-chatting and just being social and hanging out. And it was just the

Speaker 1 most lovely, relaxing version of the trip. It was completely different.
And everyone agreed. Everyone was like, oh, it's kind of

Speaker 1 drowsy and lazy version, but everyone there, you know, it's in the ethos sometimes. No, the ether,

Speaker 1 where everyone that had come to the trip had also seemingly had the same month leading up to it. Like everyone I ran to is just like, oh my God, I barely made it to this trip.
Everyone was napping.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Nice. Yeah, it was, it was great.

Speaker 2 How is our best boy?

Speaker 1 Oh, best boy was very exhausted. He's maybe who I'm referencing the most.
He looked like he maybe just barely made it up there alive.

Speaker 1 But he was lovely.

Speaker 2 Well, he's doing the Lord's work.

Speaker 1 He is. He's out there doing the Lord's work.
Have you ever participated in a silent disco?

Speaker 2 No, but I know about them. Okay.

Speaker 1 I'm going to out Will Speck. I think you're generally supposed to protect the the anonymity of who's on that trip but i'm gonna out will speck the director very sweet

Speaker 1 hysterical fun flirty he pined over his oh so the way a silent disco works is everyone wears headphones and there's three channels on the headphones and when you and there's three different colors so there's red green and blue and you put playlists on each of those channels And if you're dancing and you don't like the song, then you flick, but you're also like monitoring everyone else that's dancing.

Speaker 1 Cause if you see people going extra hard and they're on red, you're like, well, fuck, I got to get over to red.

Speaker 1 So Will Speck had pined over his playlist, I think for a month leading up to this silent disco.

Speaker 1 In the way Jess would, right? Like hoping it's everyone's going to love it. There's some song he wants to introduce everyone to.

Speaker 1 There's some new tracks. You know, he's very hip to new tracks.
And

Speaker 1 it was just so fucking fun. Those are so fun.
And then when you walk out onto, because we were dancing outside, it was cold, but we were dancing outside.

Speaker 1 And you walk outside, and there's just 30 people going berserk, and it's dead quiet. All you hear is like footsteps on the ground of people.

Speaker 2 I feel like there's something about it that kind of like freaks me out.

Speaker 1 I already guess that for you, it might be dicey.

Speaker 2 It's, I mean, I think it's a beautiful thing.

Speaker 2 God, I I sound like such a curmudgeon because, you know, I, I

Speaker 2 famously don't like dogs and now I'm going to famously not like dancing, which is like two of the

Speaker 2 things that every single person loves. But it is weird that you brought it up now because Jess.

Speaker 2 and I were at a store yesterday and we were telling the guy that we were about to go to Atwater and he asked us if we had ever been to this one

Speaker 2 bar. I guess it's a bar.
And I said, no. And he said, it's awesome because there's a huge dance floor and like people are dancing.
And Jess is like, oh, yes, like, I want to do that.

Speaker 2 I really want to go there. And I kept my mouth shut, but I was like, I'm not going.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I understand. I understand.

Speaker 1 But what if it was? It's an old wound. It's an old wound.
It's an old wound, but it's two different things. I think you're thinking of just dancing with strangers, which is one thing.

Speaker 1 Now, imagine our pod has a dance party at Amy's birthday party. That's a different experience.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it is. And I am happy to dance with

Speaker 2 people I love,

Speaker 2 but I still, although, God, I used to booty bump, but booty bump was different. I actually think this is kind of like my, you know, my stance that holding hands is actually more intimate than anal.

Speaker 1 And anal, yeah, that's your, that's on your headstone. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. This is kind of similar where I feel like dancing,

Speaker 2 regular dancing, is more vulnerable than booty bumping because you, everyone knows how to do that. Like it's, it's easy and it's kind of crass.

Speaker 2 There's no vulnerability in it.

Speaker 1 Yes, you've got a persona going booty bump MLP.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's me. That's my rap name.

Speaker 1 Really quick. You could host one of these silent discos in a, in a nursing home at night and no one would wake up.
That's what's so funny about it. But the highlight for me was

Speaker 1 both my girls danced for four hours, right? So like one in the morning.

Speaker 2 Oh, fun.

Speaker 1 Both my girls can dance, which I love. And I danced with them so much.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 at the end of the night, I just thought, oh, God, I hit the lottery. I like, I have two kids that love to dance like I do.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 as a family, we're a dancing family.

Speaker 2 That's nice.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it was so, it was just so sweet. Lincoln in particular,

Speaker 1 not a shocker because we're so similar. You just couldn't get.
I gave up.

Speaker 1 I wanted to go back and go to sleep at one point. And Lincoln wanted to keep going hard.

Speaker 1 And yeah, it just tickled me to no end.

Speaker 2 That's fun. Yeah.
Yeah. Speaking of this, I feel like it's,

Speaker 2 you know, obviously the reason that I find it sort of uncomfortable. Well, I did not grow up in a dancing family.
So that's part of it. But also, I don't like attention.

Speaker 2 I don't like people looking at me.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Stay tuned for more armchair expert

Speaker 1 if you dare. Let's take a minute to thank our presenting sponsor, Audible.
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Speaker 2 Yeah, and with over a million audiobooks, audible originals, and more, it's basically impossible to run out of things to listen to.

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Speaker 2 That sounds really fun. I'm more of a psychological thriller girl.

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Speaker 1 We are supported by Quince. So I'm standing in my closet the other day and I realize I'm reaching for the same three things over and over again.

Speaker 1 And they're all coming from Quince, which got me thinking, when did I become that guy who actually cares about where his clothes come from? I'll tell you when, when I discovered Quince.

Speaker 2 Exactly. I was at a happy hour a couple of days ago with a very cool woman named Marco, very chic.
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Speaker 2 Ironically, it's so strange, whatever. But this reminds me, I want to talk about something because we haven't done a fact check since

Speaker 2 our Brad Pitt episode came out.

Speaker 1 Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. First of all, did you see it opened at $140 million?

Speaker 2 I didn't. That's awesome.
Wow.

Speaker 1 Makes me

Speaker 2 so happy. So the episode came out.

Speaker 2 A lot of people said they really liked it, which is super fun. Obviously, it was fun for us to release that and give that to the Arm Cherries.

Speaker 2 I did not anticipate, and I guess

Speaker 2 very dumb of me, but I just wasn't paying. I just didn't think about this that this would take on a life of its own.
And there were so many headlines

Speaker 2 about

Speaker 2 the episode. Well, specifically saying that he talked about his divorce, which he did not talk about his divorce.
And it was really making me feel crazy. I was like, oh my God.

Speaker 2 Oh my God. Like, no wonder people of that level like don't do interviews and don't do things because people just make up lies.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Headlines. When there's a we're saying that we discussed that and we didn't.
Yeah. And I thought the the same thing.

Speaker 1 I was like, he probably can't answer a question like what his favorite hamburger is without them extrapolating what they want him to talk about.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 2 Yes. If he says he likes In-N-Out, it's like, well, because Angelina notoriously likes McDonald's.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 He has,

Speaker 2 they don't get, they didn't get along about that and they got a divorce. Like, it's so, it's so wild.

Speaker 2 And what I will say, I respect him so much because even though i was shocked i know he wasn't shocked he's like this is what happens this is what happens every time this is my life and we

Speaker 2 we do have people who come on who are very

Speaker 2 um

Speaker 2 concerned about what will be said you know, after the fact of the conversation, who often like

Speaker 2 it won't be, it won't be talked about you know and this man is definitely gonna get talked about and he didn't tell us anything he didn't tell us to cut out anything he was so chill he was like you you guys do your thing it's your show yeah he didn't care at all like he

Speaker 2 yeah yeah there's a lot of behind the scenes talking to people's publicists and dealing with a bunch of stuff and there was none of that with this the most high profile guest we've ever had on and i i not only did i appreciate it it made me i was like god he just like on he just knows he he knows

Speaker 1 what's gonna happen and he just decides i guess like oh well i think he he like has a calmness about it i think he has full acceptance of what his life is which we did kind of talk about which is like i think you fight it for a long time and it makes you uncomfortable and at some point you go oh i'm gonna drive myself bananas or i i just have to not give a fuck anymore And it seems like he is at

Speaker 1 that point.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I know, I really, I think it's awesome.

Speaker 2 But what I wanted to say is, so, yeah, there were all these headlines, all these things, which were like making me feel like I already was like, ah, I don't like that.

Speaker 2 And I even had like our publicist tell one of the magazines to tell them. And they did remove the headline, which I thought was nice.

Speaker 2 But then I saw it a hundred other places and I was like, oh my God,

Speaker 2 this is too much. But

Speaker 2 then I was listening to a podcast that I listened to, a pop culture podcast. I just,

Speaker 2 it's, it's in my rotation. I enjoy it.
I found it a couple months ago.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 they start talking about the episode.

Speaker 2 And I, as soon as it started to come up, I like got like sweaty. I got so anxious

Speaker 2 about what they were going to say.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 it was so interesting because this podcast has like a host and then guest hosts every week.

Speaker 2 And it was interesting because she started off by saying, I've never listened to the show before. Have you? And then the guest said, unfortunately, yes.

Speaker 2 And I was like, oh no.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 Of course.

Speaker 2 I feel defensive. My feelings are hurt.
And then they proceed to talk about the episode for a while. What's so funny to me is pretty much absolutely everything they're saying is is

Speaker 2 positive.

Speaker 2 Except they then, because of that, because I think overall they like liked it, they had to just insert jabs.

Speaker 2 Like, but I just to say, I don't really like the show, but, you know, or I don't like them.

Speaker 1 They never elaborated on what their issue with the show was.

Speaker 2 We're obnoxious.

Speaker 1 Oh, we're obnoxious. Yeah.
But not what version of them. We are obnoxious, but what version of obnoxious are we? They didn't specify.

Speaker 2 They didn't say. Okay.
But they just were saying, like,

Speaker 2 I don't know. It was just very interesting because I did think, oh, you can't just say you liked it.
You have to say something negative. And I think

Speaker 2 people feel like if they're just positive or kind or whatever, then they're like dumb. Like, I worry that that's the, that's where we live right now.

Speaker 2 We're like, if, if you are only saying positive things, they're not critical. They're worried that like, they're not critical thinkers.
This was like a podcast I put on to go to bed.

Speaker 2 Big mistake. I'm now up for like an hour and a half, just laying there, kind of spiraling about this.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I DM'd the host.

Speaker 1 And I,

Speaker 2 I, I don't regret it. I don't regret it, but it didn't make me feel the way I thought it was going to make me feel.

Speaker 1 How did you think it was going to make you feel?

Speaker 2 I thought it was going to make me really feel like, what's the word? Not like, like, I caught you.

Speaker 1 Aha, ah, gotcha.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I didn't really do that. I mean, I did, I did feel, and I do feel that

Speaker 2 it's, you don't know who's listening ever to your show, to your prod, to, to whatever you're doing, whatever you're putting out there.

Speaker 2 And I think it's important when you're speaking openly and when you have platforms that you do consider that, like, is this something you would say if that person heard it?

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 2 that's how we, it's literally what you learn in kindergarten.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Like, if you want to say it to their face, don't say it at all.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And anyway, so I just said, hi, you know, I

Speaker 2 listened to your show. I like your show.

Speaker 2 I,

Speaker 2 it was wild to hear the, our interview come up.

Speaker 2 Um, I wish I could unhear some of those things, but

Speaker 1 uh,

Speaker 2 overall, like, thank you for listening, whatever. And then she responded very nicely.
Yeah, I just, that was that.

Speaker 1 You said it's a pop culture podcast, right?

Speaker 2 Yes, yes.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So for me, like pop culture, anything pop culture means gossip.

Speaker 1 And I'm not shitting on gossip overall because I think gossip in general gets a very negative kind of, you know,

Speaker 1 it's, it's a pejorative in a way. But I mean, there is a huge utility to gossip.
We've talked about it.

Speaker 1 Like when you're in a tribe of 100 people and you're gossiping about the leader who's, you know, mistreating people, that's, it's how how we regulate so i i don't think it's um

Speaker 1 you know it's not useless uh or or should never be done but um

Speaker 1 i don't think the ethos or edict of

Speaker 1 of culture today is to be negative but gossip is gossip is inherently caddy you can't just bring up you have to say her shoes didn't match her outfit you might be in love with her and worshiping her but like gossip the nature of it is like and now i'm going to say something shitty because that's what gossip is in my mind i'm taking full responsibility for this my hunch is that if she didn't like the show it wasn't because you it was probably because of me or at least in my mind i'm taking

Speaker 1 all the responsibility for that you should i'm gonna leave be i'm relieving you of any um responsibility for well that's not how i look at it obnoxious factor

Speaker 2 whatever i

Speaker 2 I said that. It made me, I felt kind of good for like 14 seconds and then that was over.
And then I thought, oh, I just, I guess I just feel really like exposed. Sure, sure.

Speaker 2 Like we put something out that a lot of people

Speaker 2 saw and heard

Speaker 2 and have an opinion on now. Yeah.
And it felt, it felt scary. Like it felt very like, I guess out of control.
You know, I love our listeners so much. So I guess I'm like putting

Speaker 2 them in their own category like our consistent listeners yeah but it did make me think like oh i really like this job for the job itself i i i really am not in it for us putting it out like i i

Speaker 2 i don't like that part actually

Speaker 2 that part's scary and even when people are being positive It's still like, oh, but they like hurt it. I don't know.
I don't know. It's weird.

Speaker 1 Well, it's it's, it's inherently vulnerable to go, okay, everyone, go ahead and listen. I mean, that's just, I think.

Speaker 2 Yeah, because I protect myself so much from it. I don't look at comments.
I don't, but this was, it just, I, I think that was it. It's like, I'm very active about not taking in any of that.

Speaker 2 I know it's out there, but I don't, it, if it doesn't exist, if I'm not seeing it. Yeah.
But this just like landed. I couldn't even help it.

Speaker 2 It's something that I listened to on my own yes and it found me yeah and it was really strange but you were just admiring pit

Speaker 1 right I know I want to be I aspire to be like him yeah so weirdly maybe the universe put this whole thing right like it's an extreme example like this guy has to deal with people the whole country that read those headlines thinks he was talking about that it wasn't and somehow he's just like yeah and what can i do and i'm still going to be me and be radical in movies and look sweet driving race cars and whatever, because I want to do that.

Speaker 2 Be so hot.

Speaker 1 You know, I was even thinking while we were just talking, I'm almost tempted to start rubbing my head like this because it was so cute the way he would circle his shaved head.

Speaker 2 He did touch his head a lot. I thought it, I also thought it was so cute and hot.

Speaker 1 It was so cute and hot. And a lot of people in the comments thought it was like every, someone said every time he rubbed his head and there was like fire signs.
I was like,

Speaker 1 his power is, he's so powerful. Like, just rubbing his head.

Speaker 1 We're like, oh my God, like, I don't even know what we want, like him to rub our head that way, or just he's being sensual with his own body and we want to rub his head like that.

Speaker 2 I think it's more like, well, I couldn't get away with that.

Speaker 2 Like, he's doing something people can't get away with.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the shaped head. Let's start with a shaped head.
So few dudes can pull that off.

Speaker 2 I think some good takeaways were that I did realize that I like the process of it more than the result, which I think is important.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and healthy. It'd be bad if it was reversed.
If you're like, well, I hate this, but I love the reaction.

Speaker 2 Exactly. Yes.
And it made me feel,

Speaker 2 this is not to sound like self-righteous, because this just happens to be what we've decided to do on this show. But I'm happy that our show isn't about that, isn't about breaking

Speaker 2 things down and tearing, you know, having to say something negative. Like, I'm glad it's not.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And I'm, yeah.

Speaker 1 So it was great. I loved it.
I loved it. You know, it's, it's all directly proportional to the attention.
So it's like, I'm delighted so many people listen to our show.

Speaker 1 And yeah, a big handful of them were

Speaker 1 mad he was on our show, but it's just all like, it's a one-to-one. You bring in more folks and then you get more voices.
And it guesses it's worth it to me. You know, I agree.

Speaker 1 I was mad about headlines. I was just very feeling very protective of him, which is hysterical.
Like, he needs me to look out for him. Well, I felt that too.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's just about the principle. It's not about him specifically.
Well, let's let's maybe let's do some facts.

Speaker 1 Oh, I love facts. Let's do some.

Speaker 2 Superman.

Speaker 1 Oh, this is incredible because last night I went to the movies. Oh, and we saw the trailer for the first time in the cinema for Superman.

Speaker 2 And did it look so fun?

Speaker 1 It looks awesome. Ooh.
Yeah. I can't wait.
I'm a little mad we had Superman week. Why? And we didn't get to see the movie.
Oh, like we got to see F1.

Speaker 2 I know, but you're being greedy.

Speaker 1 I am. Yeah.
But if they do a whole week, I feel obligated to have seen the movie. Yeah.
And I just want to.

Speaker 2 I really want to. It's crazy.

Speaker 1 He's so hot with a bald head.

Speaker 2 He's so hot.

Speaker 1 What a dick!

Speaker 2 No, any guy who can just shave their heads, such a nice guy,

Speaker 1 that's why it's like anyone who can just shave their head out of nowhere and still be hot.

Speaker 2 Remember the first time he came on and he told that hilarious story about when he was dating Jennifer Lawrence and he got food poisoning while she was she had booked the Silverlinings playbook and was like in the other room talking to Bradley and while he was like puking and sweating.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's right, I forgot about that.

Speaker 2 It's such a good story.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 2 cutie pie.

Speaker 1 I was thinking when we had him on, because, of course, it popped up that he had dated her. It's in his Wikipedia.
Sure. And then I thought, what's going on with Jennifer Lawrence?

Speaker 2 She's married. She has kid.

Speaker 1 But was she acting?

Speaker 2 Yeah, she was just at Cannes.

Speaker 1 She was.

Speaker 1 She took a break, right? Well, I think kid. She was in every movie.
Yeah. And she's so incredible.

Speaker 2 Oh, she's so good.

Speaker 2 Yeah, she has a new movie that premiered at Cannes that a lot of people are talking about. So I'm sure she'll be in the circuit for the awards.

Speaker 1 Well, get her on, Monica.

Speaker 2 Come on, Jen.

Speaker 1 Do you think I can text Nicholas who doesn't text me back to text her?

Speaker 2 I think his ex-girlfriend. I think you should probably not.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's probably a better way in.

Speaker 2 Um, okay, some facts. What years was Nicholas nominated for the Golden Globes? He thinks the first year was COVID, the next year was the boycotted year.

Speaker 2 2021 nominee, best performance by an actor in a TV series musical comedy. Great 2022, same thing.
He was right.

Speaker 1 He really got screwed on both occasions. Wow.
Poor guy.

Speaker 2 How did Peter III of Russia die in real life?

Speaker 2 Peter III of Russia died at 34

Speaker 2 under mysterious circumstances.

Speaker 2 Some say he was assassinated while behind bars. Some say he was assassinated, but not behind bars.

Speaker 2 Others say it was suicide. Regardless, most believe Catherine was behind it.

Speaker 2 Of course they think that. Good for her.
The official cause of death was a severe attack of hemorrhoidal colic.

Speaker 1 That sounds like it's combining hemorrhoids and cholera.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but colic, you know, colic.

Speaker 1 When you're a baby, you get that. Yeah.
He was a baby.

Speaker 2 He Benjamin buttoned and became a baby.

Speaker 1 Okay. But what could be worse than

Speaker 1 dying from diarrhea while you have hemorrhoids? That sounds like a uniquely.

Speaker 2 But colic isn't diarrhea.

Speaker 1 It's not. It's just gas pain.

Speaker 2 No, no. It's like, it's like

Speaker 2 basically agitation. Like they're just crying not.

Speaker 1 I think it's

Speaker 2 a gastronomic.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I do think it's GI derived. Really? Let me look.

Speaker 2 Okay, characterized by excessive, inconsolable crying in a healthy infant, often defined by the rule of three, crying for more than three hours a day, for more than three days a week, and more than three weeks.

Speaker 2 While the exact cause remains unknown, it is a common condition that usually resolves on its own by three to four months of age.

Speaker 1 After they cry themselves out.

Speaker 2 Oh, it says symptoms, symptoms. Okay.
Clenched fist and curled up legs.

Speaker 2 Oh, these poor babies.

Speaker 2 Reddening of the face, probably because of the crying.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Tense, bloated belly, but I think that's because of the crying.

Speaker 1 Wait, crying makes your belly bloated? Yeah. I think GI stuff makes your belly bloated.

Speaker 2 Okay. Passing gas

Speaker 2 or having a bowel movement might

Speaker 2 offer temporary relief. All right, fine.

Speaker 1 You might think it's related to you.

Speaker 2 But nobody's saying that.

Speaker 1 I just know that I was colicky. I couldn't have anything, which is why we went from formula to Carol syrup.

Speaker 1 Somehow that was related to my colickiness.

Speaker 2 Sure. I mean, yeah, because that made you not cry all the time.

Speaker 1 But maybe because I wasn't having an upset stomach.

Speaker 2 But don't you think that would really make you have an upset stomach?

Speaker 1 Carol syrup? Yes. No, I think you can't possibly get an upset stomach from Carol's syrup.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 it's like inert.

Speaker 1 It's just calories.

Speaker 2 But it's sugar.

Speaker 1 Sugar isn't good for you. No, but if you beat his butt cherry red.

Speaker 1 I think my dad was beating my butt cherry red. No, he wasn't.
Yeah, he lost it. I know, I was just saying good things about him, but he did.

Speaker 2 He spanked me.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we would get into power struggles.

Speaker 2 No, when you were a baby.

Speaker 1 When I was a baby, yeah. I would jump off.
This is where my mother would have to intervene. I would jump off the deck.
How old are you?

Speaker 1 Two.

Speaker 1 And it was a really tall deck. And he kept telling me not to.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you can. You break your legs.

Speaker 1 Spank me. And then he'd put me down.
And I would look at him, according to my mother. This is my memory.
And I would say, don't you pank me.

Speaker 1 And then I would run. I'd look at him and run and jump directly off right after he spanked me.
And then he would grab me and spank me.

Speaker 1 yeah and he'd put me down i'd say don't you pank me and my mom would have to intervene because this cycle this is insane go on forever like i would not and he want to quit it started at two we were locked in that battle i don't know what he's supposed to do i mean i would just be like go break your leg that's that's better than me beating you not true me beating you Was it like, it's probably like that.

Speaker 2 No, my mom would not to defend.

Speaker 1 No, no, no, no.

Speaker 1 My mom will say she did it.

Speaker 1 It would go too far.

Speaker 2 Well, yeah, because you're making him go nuts.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the two-year-old's making the adult. Yeah, I find, look, I do.

Speaker 1 I'm sympathetic to what he did. I don't think it's the right way.
I think we can both agree that's not the right way.

Speaker 2 You can't beat your children.

Speaker 1 And when you recognize your kid, it's on you as an adult. When you recognize your kid will die in the fire,

Speaker 1 you can't then push them in the fire.

Speaker 2 But you also. But that's the opposite in his head.
He's like, this kid is going to die. No, he.

Speaker 1 No, he's like, I gotta break this kid are you sure he might he was probably scared dex that you were gonna hurt yourself he was definitely afraid for my safety yeah there's no question and he felt out of control yes and so he decided to smack

Speaker 1 me a lot that's bad and he as the adult should have seen oh this kid won't quit one of us has to quit in this scenario right he's not going to Every time I spank him like beyond the pale, he then looks at me and jumps off.

Speaker 2 But do you think you jumped off regardless of the spanks?

Speaker 1 Like what was now I was in a power struggle with it. Right.
And I was saying, don't spank me. I'm going to keep doing this.
And I kept doing this.

Speaker 1 And as the adult, you'd have to go, okay, so he's never going to stop. Am I going to stop? Or am I going to spank him for the next three hours? Right.
Or that was on him at that point.

Speaker 1 Now I knew he was only 24 years old.

Speaker 2 Yes. And of course, spanking is.

Speaker 2 Spanking is bad. That's like obvious.
Yeah. So that's, let's take that off the table.

Speaker 2 But I do, I do understand the instinct of how do we oh god stop him from hurting himself yeah he should have tied you down when you're in a power struggle with somebody and you fully acknowledge they're never gonna quit that's right and you're smarter and an adult yes you you gotta be the you have to leave that's a boundary they're not gonna stop you have to leave But he is your dad and you are two.

Speaker 2 So this gets more complicated.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, colic. Yeah.
So he died of that.

Speaker 2 When did Nicholas do Rebel in the Rye?

Speaker 2 Year and age. 2017 when he was 27.
But filming started the year prior. So he was 26 or 27.

Speaker 1 Nine years ago.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Oh, what is the Bhagavad Gita quote that he referred to?

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 You have the right to work, but for the work's sake only. You have no right to the fruits of work.
Desire for the fruits of work must never be your motive in working.

Speaker 2 Never give way to laziness either. Okay, extended version.
Perform every action with your heart fixed on the Supreme Lord. Renounce attachment to the fruits.

Speaker 2 Be even tempered in success and failure, for it is the evenness of temper which is meant by yoga.

Speaker 1 That's kind of what we were talking about.

Speaker 2 Work done with anxiety about results is far inferior to work done without such anxiety. In the calm of self-surrender, seek refuge in the knowledge of Brahma.

Speaker 2 They who work selfishly for results are miserable.

Speaker 2 That's basically the Hindu Bible. It's the closest thing to him.
They don't have one, but that's like, that's the religious thing.

Speaker 1 And it's a long conversation between two people.

Speaker 2 Did Nicholas Cage get Patricia Arquette a black orchid and autograph from J.D. Salinger as a condition for marriage?

Speaker 1 Oh my God, great.

Speaker 2 Patricia said in an interview with the New Yorker during severance interviews that she met Cage in an LA deli, but wouldn't go out with him unless he obtained unattainable objects for her.

Speaker 2 After the list was completed, she was supposed to marry marry him. He started getting close to finishing the list before they even went on a date.
The list included a Salinger autograph, which he got.

Speaker 2 It also included a black orchid from the jungles of Peru or Brazil. He completed this task, but it was actually a spray-painted orchid.

Speaker 1 He cheated a little bit. I'm glad this isn't completely

Speaker 1 made up in my mind. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Great. I want to know.
If we ever interview him, we got to find out how he got Salinger's autograph.

Speaker 2 Yeah, exactly. Do you think he has some like

Speaker 1 psychosexual?

Speaker 2 No, like some masochistic qualities because that's kind of masochistic. It's like, go do these.
Go, you, go get these things from me.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I don't think so.

Speaker 1 I'll ask. Okay, ask him that.
Are you a sub?

Speaker 2 How rare is a black orchid? Black orchids are unique because in nature, plants rarely bloom in black. True black orchid flowers do not exist in nature.

Speaker 2 Black orchids were created by geneticists by crossing three species of orchid. They are also not truly black.
They have maroon, dark purple, and blue pigments.

Speaker 2 Does rosemary oil help with hair growth? Rosemary oil is believed to encourage hair regrowth like rogaine does and to prevent hair loss.

Speaker 2 It contains compounds that may have antioxidants, anti-inflammatory, and antimicrobial properties, support wound healing, promote nerve growth, and improve circulation.

Speaker 2 More research is needed to confirm this.

Speaker 1 Okay. I'll take a jug of it.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. You could try it.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Add it to my 70-minute routine at night. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, that's it for Nicholas Holt.

Speaker 1 We love him. I can't wait for the next round.
Yeah. I'm charmed every time.
Butterflies every time.

Speaker 1 Love you.

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