Mom's Car: Timothy Simons

Hello and welcome to Mom's Car.

Today we have Timothy Simons.

Oh my god, what a wonderful and tall human being Timothy is.

You probably fell in love with him on Veep as I did.

He was also in Handmaid's Tale and let us not forget, nobody wants this.

Tim is a party.

He's honest.

And boy, did he teach us a lot about ADHD.

Please enjoy Timothy Simons.

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I grew up in Maine, central Maine, like woods and lakes rather than ocean.

Okay.

But I was going to say that when I was growing up, there was like this Shakespeare theater that was in a really amazing building.

The actual building is beautiful.

The theater is beautiful.

So it's kind of a destination for like New York equity actors to come up and do Shakespeare and get out of the city.

What's the other one?

There's one in the Berkshires too.

Is it kind of like that?

Williamstown?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's not big like Williamstown.

Okay.

Williamstown, I feel like big names go and do shows.

And I think people that are playwrights at Yale will do shows up there.

You're like a sort of steadily working equity actor in New York or Boston, and you just get to like get out of the city and the pay is kind of shit and you live with other people in the community.

But growing up, one of the people that was always in shows there was David Harbor.

So when I was like 12 years old, is he from Maine?

No, he was

a New York guy, but he was up there for like four or five summers.

So I saw him do a bunch of moly airplays and two gentlemen of Verona.

And I worked at the video store and he would come into the video store and I treated him like I was meeting Brando.

Brando.

I was like, oh my God, man, how's it going?

And he was like,

secret copies of anything.

I would like try to do like a cool video store guy.

I mean, I was probably 14.

Oh, my God.

And I'd be like, I got recommendations for you if you need them.

And he was probably like, yeah, man, I kind of know.

I'm an artist.

I'm an artist.

Yeah.

But I always kind of loved seeing him around.

That's really fun.

I imagine it's a small town.

Very.

My hometown was really small.

It was like 2,000 people.

And the town that that theater was in was even smaller.

Like we made fun of it for how small it was.

Oh, really?

Their high school, Monmouth Academy, they had literally like 10 to 12 people per graduating class.

Like, wow, that makes dating rough.

Yes, I was on a basketball team in high school, and it was always the only team that we could beat.

They didn't have enough players?

Basically, yes, they were like,

we have the only nine guys.

Why aren't you possibly do this?

Yeah.

What did your mom and dad do for a living?

When they first moved to Maine, they actually were two of the founding teachers of the high school that I ended up going to.

Was it a private school?

No, it was a little public school.

Okay.

And it drew from like four towns.

They were like founding members of that school.

Do you like that?

Oh, man.

This is how I drive.

It's a good.

This is why Karin was like.

Dex and I grew up being very aggressive.

Well, we worked for GM.

Yeah, so we have just been driving like fucking maniacs our entire life.

Karen doesn't

interested in it.

Yeah, he doesn't drive.

I remember when we got a puppy, the dog walker was like, you got to introduce him to older dogs.

The older dogs can roll them.

That was the phrase she used.

You got to roll them so that they understand.

You were kind of rolling that guy.

Yeah, you're like, he's got to understand.

He's like, you're blowing this red light.

Yes.

And I'm letting you know I know you blew this.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I fight my instinct to be a sheriff, but it comes out sometimes.

I regret that you saw that side of me.

I kind of like that.

I feel like there has to be a little more of that.

Like we should all be understanding.

I know.

I have this thing.

Okay, this is really great because originally I was going to say, Michigan, we didn't have the camp culture, right?

That was a a very New York thing, I guess.

Additionally, you have agents.

I feel like it's very specific to agents.

You have agents driving around LA in 9-11s and they're five foot five and they're screaming, fuck you, and cutting people off.

And I'm like, you cannot get away with that in Detroit.

Someone's pulling you out of your car.

You've got to be able to back that up.

And there's something that just feels crazy to me about LA that that goes on.

Yeah.

And then the same guy yells at the fucking hostess.

And he's just a bully, bully, but he does not have the stature to

morbidity of ADHD is a heightened sense of injustice or a heightened sensitivity to injustice in that way of like, this is an injustice.

And so I'm going to ask, are you an ADHD person?

Okay, so two things.

I interviewed Gabor Mate, who is an expert on ADHD.

After the interview, I'm walking him out of the house.

Just randomly, he goes, have you ever been tested for ADHD?

It's like a intake counselor at a rehab asking if you've ever done the questionnaire for addiction.

I was like, oh, I think maybe you just evaluated me and that's your conclusion.

And then I had another ADHD expert say that to me as well.

But I'm fighting against, it's so popular on Instagram.

Yeah.

Like, is your feed just endless ADHD?

People do this.

I saw one the the other day.

I was like, have multiple drinks.

I always have four or five different drinks going.

And I'm like, oh, yeah.

But then I said that out loud and Monica looked that up and it's like, no, that's not really a symptom.

So people are like piling on symptoms.

I think there might just be human-ness.

I don't know.

Yeah.

So I think I probably am ADHD, but I'm also having a reservation.

How about you?

I am.

I was diagnosed when it was still a pretty novel thing.

I had to like go to a children's hospital in Boston.

I was never like an amazing student, but I had fallen off a cliff in the 10th grade to the point where they were like, something larger is going on.

Sure, he's either gotten a substance issue or closeted homosexuality.

Something big is happening.

And I went to the doctor and they were like, you're a closeted homosexuality.

I'm not ready to face that yet.

So like, what else do you got in the hop?

Gills that'll distract me until I'm old enough to pursue this.

You're a closeted.

Any of your doctors said that to you with a clipboard?

He's got test results.

Your labs are in flipping through the pages and i got to tell you your brain lit up i don't know why we showed you a picture of men in swimsuits but

every lobe was firing we rarely see the occipital catch fire the way it did this will not come as a surprise to you but you are closer to home

that doesn't sound right i remember it being my local doctors were either unable or maybe didn't have the training to be able to give the diagnosis, which meant my mom my dad had to like take a day off from work we drove down to boston i had tests all the next day and then we drove back do you remember what the tests were i mean it was everything from written tests to physical i do very clearly remember they were like okay now you have to hop on one foot for 30 seconds oh really and then you have to hop on the other foot for 30 seconds it was like a battery of written verbal and how long is it was it a half a day full day like i was in there for probably six hours which sounds sounds like the worst thing for an ADHD person to be stuck.

Or was things moving so quick you were stimulated?

Things were moving fast.

And also, I got to leave school for the day and go to the city.

So I was like, I'll fucking hop on one foot all day.

I get to like actually see a building that's more than a standard.

Did you like to top over to Bull?

What's the Cheers location?

Did you go

like Bull Sanchez something?

Like, we probably did Boston Common.

They probably pointed it out to me, but they were like, you can't go in there.

You're too ADHD.

Yeah.

You don't fucking drink everything in the house.

Comorbidity, we'll just explain it really quick for anyone who doesn't know.

It's like anytime there's a condition that has a high likelihood that you'll have another, that's a very common overlap.

Say the given population has a 5% chance of being narcissistic, right?

People with BPD might actually be 30% likely and that would be a comorbidity.

Those aren't real examples, but that could be a thing like that.

So it was a friend of mine whose wife, who I, oh shit, who I actually met, I ended ended up working at that Shakespeare theater that David Harbour worked for, but when I was 21, 22, and there was a woman who is now a costume designer out here when she was like 19.

It was like her first job.

We got to be friends.

And we still see them out here.

They live out in Northridge.

They came over to the house for dinner.

They have two kids now.

And she is very ADHD.

And so he's a great husband.

He does all the reading of the ADHD books and then tells her

and sums it up for her.

He's her doctor.

Yes.

Yeah, that's very generous.

That's a sweet person.

And that was one of the things that came up.

I've really kind of dialed into that when I feel it.

It has both managed to like calm me down when I am feeling that way and has also explained a lot of stuff up to this point.

Just being able to look at the feeling you're having going, right, you have an exaggerated sense of this.

So just keep that in mind.

Keep that in mind.

And then it also kind of says like, okay, so is this really as big as my head is making it out to be?

It makes you just look at it again.

And sometimes it is, no, actually, this is a big deal.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But has allowed me to then pull back from things that aren't.

Does the awareness seem impossible or you just are constantly aware?

No.

Yeah, like, how long will you be in the emotion of, let's say, rage towards injustice before it clicks?

Oh, this is that thing.

Well, recently it hasn't been very long because I only found this out like less than a month ago.

Oh, okay.

And I have noticed a huge shift in how long I stay in that sort of spinning thought where it used to like ruin an entire day.

Somebody that like ducks under the little barrier at the airport.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

It's like, no, they set up the fucking lanes and I'm using the lanes, but you went under, I would be mad for the whole flight.

Yeah.

You ruined your vacation possibly a week, maybe.

Yeah.

And so I have noticed in the last month, while yes, that person should still be executed

for doing that.

I'm able to just understand that it's going to take a while to like pass that law.

Yeah.

Well, look, I have that really bad, but it's always interesting.

Also, when you have kids, they force you to confront whether this story you have about yourself is real or if it's just your fucking genetics, right?

Yeah.

Do you have that with your kids?

So my story was, oh, my dad filed bankruptcy three times.

Money was really, really tight.

And that's why I'm so frugal and responsible with money.

But then Lincoln, our oldest, she has saved every penny she's ever been given.

She's grown up in abundance.

And then the little one, look at this.

We got one.

Oh, that's on your good luck.

Big one.

And a big ride.

Oh.

Oh.

I was like, should we just sit in front of rice and barbecue?

Because we've had an inordinate amount of deliveries from rice and barbecue.

It looks like this is a two-banger trip.

Oh.

Two restaurants.

Oh, oh, oh, oh.

Salt and straw is the first.

Is that it?

That's ice cream, right?

Yeah.

Well, they're doing a full thing.

They're doing dessert and maybe a main.

I hope they got some dry ice in this bag.

So my story about my injustice thing is like, oh, I had stepdads.

They were bullies.

I'll never stand for bullying.

I won't stand for injustice.

But I may just genetically be that way.

Maybe.

Because like ADHD is definitely genetic, right?

It's not a nurture situation.

I don't think so.

I definitely noticed, and I guess maybe I wonder, is it genetic or is it nurturing that like I see behaviors that I don't like in myself in my kids?

Yes.

And those get heightened.

And sometimes your own like, oh, now I'm mad at my kid, but I'm not really mad mad at them.

I'm mad at myself for like allowing that to continue.

And that can be rough.

Yes, I have a very easy time parenting our daughter that's just like Kristen.

And she has a very easy time pairing the one just like me.

My oldest and I set each other off so much.

I hate if a plan is changed.

And I really don't like any plans that I didn't come up with.

I hate to admit that.

So much of it is arrogance.

I'm like, I just am very inefficient thinker.

I'll know where we should stop, right?

It's just arrogance.

But fuck, she's the same way.

And she'll be being very stubborn and inflexible.

And I'll be like, just fucking go along with the plan.

Yeah.

You got a whole family here.

You're not the only person with a vote.

It's me.

And it's hard.

It is funny when you're saying that and you're also like, I'm never going to take that advice for myself.

And I'm enforcing my plan.

Yeah.

Because like, we're a democracy, you know, whatever the fucking thing it is.

And Chris is just like, yeah, I've been dealing with this for 18 years and I'm used to it.

I know how to outwit you and outmaneuver you and distract you.

And similarly, the little one drives Kristen nuts and they're the same person.

Like, Kristen will be actively yelling at her for leaving stuff in the sink while half the shit in the sink is Kristen's.

And I just stay out of it.

I'm like, oh my God, this is so funny and ironic.

Yeah, the sink is full with both y'all's shit.

And Lincoln and I don't ever do that.

That's so funny.

Have you ever checked?

Did you do a count?

How do you know which ones are hers and which ones are yours?

That would be my sarcastic way to bring that up without fully committing to addressing it there are always days where it's like is this the day that i make the joke what's her mood yeah yeah

is this a good day to be a pussy and fucking frame this as a joke instead of

just being direct about it I will also say, like, I know that my fucking moods cause Annie to be like, well, how am I going to attack Tim's bullshit today?

Oh, man.

The hardest part, especially since we've been out already today, I'm really hungry now.

I would fucking kill that whole ice cream section there.

Well, maybe you should just get a little to-go.

That will slow us.

Or we could run through a drive through.

No.

Okay, wait, I want to hear Aaron your answer.

Oh, well, just the whole genetics.

It reminded me of, and Tim, I know we don't know each other, but I got sober five and a half years ago.

And it was like a thank you.

And it was a whole emotional, mental, physical.

Yeah, to bring up to speed, Aaron had another 16 years at it that I did.

And we went the same level of impossible consumption.

You can't imagine what he looked like five years ago.

He was 100 pounds heavier.

He was missing many teeth.

His nose didn't work.

His eyes didn't work.

He was gray.

He looked 59.

This is a full frame off restoration.

This is like Bob Bila got in there and got down to the studs.

This is the biggest turnaround I've ever seen in sobriety.

So I had to bring that up just because I really was not aware of a lot of things until I got sober, or I didn't want to be aware of anything.

I just wanted to hopefully make it through the day and hopefully not at the same time.

If everything went perfectly not make it through the day, I came out with my son, who's now 18.

He was probably six or seven at the time.

Came out here to LA.

We went to Disney World and we were in Dax's driveway playing catch, me and my kid.

And I remember Dax asking him something

and he was so shy, my kid, and he's like, and I'm like, Wade,

answer him.

And I got like angry.

I'm so embarrassed to say this.

Dex is like, this is what I love.

That was you when you were a kid.

And I was like, I am a monster.

And I was like,

that's why I hate my son because he's me.

I love him now.

The first time I ever brought Aaron to a weekend at my dad's, and my dad was a car salesman and a huge personality.

You look people in the eyes and you shake their hand too hard and you talk.

First name, last name, every time.

Hey,

Jay Ashtonfeld there.

Yellow, he just left Dale Carnegie an hour before dinner.

We were in this booth in Greekton.

I'll never forget.

And Aaron was so shy as a kid.

And he whispered something to me and we laughed.

And my dad goes, hey, we don't whisper.

If you got something to say, he was so aggressive.

Fucking voice was so loud.

And I was like, dad, shut up.

He and I were always like this.

But yeah, I was like, Aaron, this is the same situation.

Like, remember you didn't want to talk in front of my dad?

I was like, God, I don't want anyone to be like me.

It's so awkward.

Give me the

phone.

No, thank you for waiting.

We're so busy today with

making this money that there's no time to talk.

Do you think it's unethical I'm taking some work?

I don't.

I kind of do, but also I don't care because it's for art.

Yeah.

Lowercase A.

The Supermen back the A is like half the size of the lowercase R.

Basquiat is looking up from his grave being like, God damn it.

Why was an Uber Eats around when I was alive?

Think of the paintings I could have done.

I could have done some real shit.

I've had that idea before.

Would it be fun to sign up for Uber, drive around every once in a while, even in just a way to like get an idea?

That was my first fantasy.

Aaron's been driving Uber in Detroit and he hits me once a week with a fucking insane story.

And I'm just jealous of the action.

I always say I want to work at 7-Eleven when I'm retired just to see shit go down.

I love stimulation like that.

That's what was my original idea.

I was like, nobody's going to get in a fucking Uber and there's three cameras.

And I go, hi, you're on a podcast.

Where are you traveling to today?

So this was kind of the next best thing, but it has been really, really illuminating.

What I've concluded is half of the city is in their house and the other half of the city is driving things to those people's houses.

Every car we're seeing is a delivery person.

Yes.

Virtually.

Okay.

so when you got the diagnosis, what year was this?

Sophomore in high school, 93, 94.

Okay, and were you prescribed Ritalin or Adderall?

I was prescribed Ritalin.

Okay, and did it have a really positive impact?

Incredibly positive impact.

Yeah, I always think like, what the fuck does one do?

Like, I'm an addict.

And if I had, well, maybe we're concluding I do have ADHD, I couldn't have had that medicine.

But it also explains why cocaine was my drug.

I fucking love cocaine.

I feel perfect on cocaine.

I'm not a doctor, but that seems to be what someone would call self-medicating.

Like, I have heard stories of like other ADHD kids walking in and they're like, What is that?

And they're like, Oh, this is like a 64-ounce Diet Coke.

And they're like, You are self-medicating.

And it's like, You're trying to find the same thing that this drug will give you.

Yes.

You have no addict D kind of qualities, right?

I think I

do.

Oh, that's good.

I do.

You guys are both like talented.

Don't have me

Spray, spray, spray.

I don't know what it is.

If I'm going to try to draw the only line that I can, I feel like I've always seen my dad never go too far in any direction.

He always would have a drink, but he would never drink a lot.

Annoyingly moderate.

Annoyingly moderate in that way.

I feel like whenever I have gone, I don't like the feeling of being super out of control.

So whenever I felt like things were getting toward there, I was like, I feel like I got it.

But the first time I ever sports gambled, I was like, oh, this is why people move to Vegas and give everything else up.

That part of my brain is in there.

And I do think I'm okay at managing it.

But I did smoke two packs of cigarettes a day for like 10 years.

Yes.

Like I know it's in there.

Yeah, we were both very, very heavy smokers, Aaron and I.

It's fun.

It's great.

No, yeah, if I read

someone sent me in Arpico that they're like on the verge of a vaccine for lung cancer.

And I was like, what do we do?

Obviously, I had to wait till my kids graduate.

But when I'm on a lake house retired and I have a vaccine for lung cancer, am I going to bang darts?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But I am willingly forgetting about how much I coughed, how bad my cardio was, my teeth were getting yellow.

Everything smelled.

I do remember the day that I decided to quit.

How long ago?

I started when I was in college and when I was like 19 and quit when I was 29.

And I had always kind of told myself, I'll quit when I'm 30.

I quit when I was 32.

That's a good age to quit.

Entering a new decade and you're like, are we going to do another?

Because you know, if you enter that decade doing it, another 10 years.

Yeah, then it's going to be I'm 40.

The reason I quit was I found my, I walked up one flight of stairs and was out of breath.

And I was like, I'm 20.

I was like sitting on a couch one time at rest and I was breathing.

I was breathing heavily and I'm like, you're 29 years old.

And so that was sort of like the thing, like a little bit of a come to Jesus.

Aaron will tell you, I just coughed all fucking day long i tried to get the tar out of my lungs from the second i woke up i kind of miss it

i mean it's like a

no i miss him coughing yeah it was like a soothing it made me feel safe no anyone's around

do we all go in no no no sacks yeah you have to do

it other than being charming and funny with cordy nailed yeah show over

What?

Aaron, don't I have two bags?

No, just we're going to two different locations.

Okay.

Wait, there are two people at this place?

No, we had two pickups, but we also have two stops.

This is like a level of executive function that I don't, I think because of the ADHD stand, it's like two different.

Can I just drop both of them off of them?

Can you run this down?

I think a lot of people in this business do that.

You just help me out real quick.

I don't know what the fuck I'm doing.

When I started delivering food, I was in a pizza place called Little Caesars.

Oh, you've heard of it.

Yeah, and there's this bazillion in Detroit.

There's so many people.

I went in there to pick up an order and there was probably 12 other delivery people in there waiting on food.

It got so scary.

This is in the middle of the hood and there's bulletproof glass between the shit and people are banging on it.

And we're this and come on,

kicking this glass.

Oh my God.

Oh my God, dude.

We haven't seen any of this, by the way, yet on our benches here.

We probably need to go to it.

Yeah, I don't know if you're going to find it much in Silver Lake with all the writers.

Right.

This one girl, I'll never forget it.

She's waiting on whatever she's waiting on and she goes, give me a fucking breadstick.

Whatever the fuck you have is what I'm taking them.

That's what they get.

And I'm like, People don't give a fuck.

Oh my God.

So he possibly ordered three large pizzas and got a chicken one.

Two breaksticks.

And a pencil.

She said, I don't give a fuck what you give me.

I don't give a fuck.

That's what they get.

I feel like the person that ordered gives a fuck.

That's what they get.

Yeah.

They should order from another person if they wanted more.

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Get almost anything you need delivered with Uber Eats.

What do we mean by almost?

Well, you can't get a well-groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parmesan delivered.

A day at the lake?

That's a no.

A Philly cheesesteak?

That's a yes.

An afternoon stroll?

Sorry, no.

A burrito bowl?

Happily yes.

What about a day of sunshine?

Not happening.

A box of fine chocolates?

Yes, that's happening.

on its way.

Okay, how about some clear skies?

Nope.

Well, then, how about some French fries?

Yep.

A little escape?

No.

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I was asking while you were inside what your relationship was like after you had gotten sober, but he had not.

Yeah, I'm sure he said.

No, I just barely started, but yeah, tell him.

We stayed close in that anytime I was in Michigan, we would always hang out, but I was always aware he was definitely making a concession to be around me and be as straight as he was when he was around me.

We stayed in love, but it limited like we could never go on a vacation together.

There's just so many things we couldn't have done together because he would have just been busy hiding everything.

But I never said anything, even though, of course, I was like, I know we both needed to get sober.

I didn't say anything until there was a very clear moment where I was like, Oh, he's going to be dead in a week.

I've got a week or two to say to him.

If you want to go to treatment, I'd love to send you.

To my complete shock, he said, I'd love to go.

Wow, the funniest story ever was I had booked him a place in Antigua, and of course, he needs a passport, which he doesn't have.

And now I'm like, oh my God, he's got to stay alive for four or five days, knowing he's going to treatment.

For those five days, I was at home going like, I'm ain't going to be able to do that.

That decision to go and the actual, like, I should have gone that moment.

Yeah, it's not ideal to have a five-day window before you go to treatment.

You know, you're going to treatment.

You're going in every day.

You're like the fucking passport office.

Guess what?

I didn't do for five days.

Sleep.

Oh, yeah.

I would be like, shit, I never shot dope.

Maybe this isn't time to shoot dope.

Okay, so back to the Riddling.

Oh, yeah.

So it worked really, really well.

Yes.

Were you in charge of your prescription or do your parents give it to you?

Because I know I would have ended up doing three and then I would tell them like, I'm out.

I think this was at a period of time.

I would have been between zero and 10 years old when the just say no to drugs, Nancy Reagan thing would have been happening.

So there was that general vibe out in the world.

And not that there weren't drugs where I grew up, but this like hippie high school that my parents helped start had this thing called Teen Issues Week.

And Teen Issues Week was everybody took a week off and they had everything that you can learn about jazz music to this is like a panel of gay students who are out.

It's like the mid-90s.

They also had people who had been in jail coming to talk about their experiences.

It wasn't necessarily scared straight.

It wasn't bad.

It was just, this is what it is like.

And if you have questions about that, I do feel bad that we all really laughed at this, but one former heroin addict came in to do.

It was called the Dance of Addiction.

And it was...

Already a rough title for it.

I mean, it was an interpretive dance about his experience with addiction.

Interpretive dance.

Done in the round of like a bunch of eighth and ninth graders.

Fucking very well-intentioned, but

very intentioned, also incredibly insane.

And I know we were all giggling,

but I think that what that whole week did was give you sort of a long view of your life, even if I wasn't able to really internalize it.

And I think that is all to say that.

I don't think I was ever going to take more than I was supposed to.

I think I was a rule follower in that way because I was so nervous.

This is also like AIDS crisis.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Where it was like, sex is going to kill you and drugs are going to kill you.

like, and then when I finally did get into drugs, I was always like, I'm not going to do any of the heavy shit.

I like hallucinogens.

Yeah, no one's ever died.

No one's ever died.

It's all fine.

Even when I was in college, I'm not sure what the statute of limitations on this is, but like definitely if I was like out of money on a Friday, I would sell some of it on the floor.

And I'd be like, oh, cool.

I have $100.

Yeah.

And did you suffer at all when you didn't have the medication?

I would feel a little out of control.

I was like, I'm annoying everyone around me.

I know I'm a lot, but I can really feel that I'm bugging the people that are around me.

And that's when I was like, okay, like, let's get it back together.

I definitely relate to that feeling.

Not the other people.

I relate to being the person that's way too much.

It's a thing.

I mean, maybe that's another comorbidity.

This is really hard to govern it because it's very appealing until it's not.

Yeah.

It's a very fine line to be walking, be kind of loud, provocative.

Yeah, and like energy.

A lot of times people are like, oh oh my God, this is so great.

This guy's so fun.

And then that extra 5%, they're like, fuck, I just wish this guy wasn't here or I wish he'd be normal for one second.

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

But no, even during that, I never crushed and snorted it.

I was like, yeah, it's just not for me.

I'm fine.

Definitely had a positive effect.

And are you still on it?

I took a long time off, a lot of it having to do with whenever I was 22 or whatever.

was not on my parents' insurance anymore.

And they're $100 on the street, as you found out?

Yes.

And so i was like all right i'm gonna try to like sort of self-manage this but both of my kids have adhd and it presents itself in very different ways i was like oh all the conversations i'm having right now i know are happening with me so i actually got back on it like three or four years ago and you're much happier i've assumed much happier and i definitely feel like a little bit more calm and a little bit more able to manage the things that I need to manage, whereas before I would just be like, I just lost this whole day.

Yeah, yeah, what happened?

Yeah.

It's interesting, too, that it manifests different in women than men.

Because, like, Kristen's pretty certain she has it.

And if you read the symptoms for women, it's very interesting.

They do it differently.

So, Kristen didn't present that way to me, but as I've learned about it, I'm like, yeah, I could co-sign on this.

And we're probably both that way.

And probably our oldest is that way.

Okay, this is very exciting for me to finally get to ask you this because you are a part of what I think might be an apocryphal story.

You came to LA and I want to know the whole version, but at some point you were an assistant to a casting director.

Now, is this part of a lie?

You were reading other people for Veep?

No.

Is that someone else?

That might be somebody else, but I can see where these stories would cross over because I was running camera for commercial casting places.

Okay.

And it was that job that led to a job that got me into Allison Jones' office where I was able to audition for Veep.

Okay, so yeah, walk me through that.

First of all, how old were you when you moved to LA?

I did that, people would say, in the entirely wrong way.

I was 30 when I moved here.

Ideal time.

Ideal time.

You know what?

Hollywood loves

is people who are 30 with almost no experience.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They love that.

I had never been to Los Angeles before.

I knew when I moved to Chicago that I would go to either coast eventually.

And I was just like, fuck it.

I'm going to LA.

Like, if you want to work at a steel mill you move to Pittsburgh yeah right right right in the 70s

yeah

if you want to build cars move to Detroit in the 70s in the 70s had you done any IO or second city classes or anything while you were in Chicago I took one second city class because my agent in Chicago was like if you don't have second city on your resume I can't fucking do anything right

and so I like begrudgingly took one and it was very fun and I don't know if we have this in common but a little bit of like a contrarian fucker

thing of being like, oh, you want me to do that?

Then I'm not going to do it.

So I did.

Medical morbidity.

Yeah,

probably.

I just don't want to do anything anyone else is doing.

Yeah.

It's such a terrible quality.

Aaron and I are the same way.

We love bunk rock.

Anything sort of oppositional.

I was kind of drawn that way.

But when I got out here, I still wanted to like do something.

I didn't want to lose being in front of an audience or live theater or anything like that.

So I started doing UCB out here when like nobody was asking.

We started taking classes there.

At 30.

At 30.

The first time I ever viewed Los Angeles was like getting off of the five, driving down Los Felos Boulevard.

Yeah.

We had gotten married like three weeks previous in a moving van.

God bless your wife.

Yeah.

Oh my God.

Who also

had lived in Los Angeles when she was younger for a very short time or lived in California and kind of didn't like it.

Sure.

And it was also 2008 when the financial market

crashed.

Terrifying time.

So she's a public school teacher.

She had gotten a job at a school.

Talk about marrying your mom.

Yeah.

Please don't draw.

Please don't draw too many of these parallels over the course of this drive.

But then eventually found a job running these commercial casting sessions.

I would get hired.

Casting resources would come in and be like, all right, they pick up the tide.

They look at it.

They smile like, oh, good product.

And then they leave.

And then all day I was directing people to do that.

That's an interesting way to enter this whole thing i almost think that's a gift it 100 because i found once i was directing and i was on the other side of the casting process i was like i wish i knew all this stuff the whole time i was going and auditioning seeing it from that side usually it's not about you no also then just kind of all day seeing on camera what read as funnier right than other things what is the very small thing that that person did that just made it a little bit better then that kind of led to a job where I was running these casting sessions.

But in this case, it was like, all right, the director wants you to improvise with these kids as they're coming in.

And so I started doing that.

And they just liked the stuff that I was throwing out.

And somewhere in the callbacks, the director got up and was like, just go in there and I'm going to move the camera.

He's like, cause I'm

writing you into this.

Oh my God.

And so that was like the first commercial job that I got.

And then

that led to like a little bit of a run of, oh shit, like I'm actually working in commercials a little bit, getting insurance, doing all of that.

And then that led to this one commercial where I played Abe Lincoln that a friend of mine from Chicago, I was a bartender at the House of Blues.

Nice.

Oh, that's his.

That sounds really fun.

It was really fun.

His roommate out here was Allison Jones's casting associate.

And when I had first moved out, we met, we hung out.

He was like, oh, yeah, you know, if you ever do something that I can show Allison, let me know.

Yeah.

Oh, that's so generous.

And it was.

So he showed her that and she was like, oh, he's funny.

Let's call him in.

And I went in like a Dave Lincoln commercial.

Wow.

Yeah.

And she's so wonderful, right?

We just interviewed her.

She really is.

And nobody has ever had an eye for talent like her.

And it kind of feels like everybody that has become big in comedy in the last 15, 20 years, she's the one that's.

She's like the West Coast Lorne Michaels.

Yes.

She's really special.

But when you auditioned for Veep, other than the stuff in Chicago, in LA, you'd only done the commercial?

Only really done commercials.

Veep was the first television show.

That's amazing.

That's incredible.

So yeah, there was a little part of me, you know, my agent in Chicago who was like, you're making the dumbest decision of your life.

You're moving out there without a job.

You don't know anyone.

You've never been there.

You're not good.

You're not good.

You've been trying to do it.

You've measured yourself.

I remember his advice.

I was like, hey, do you have any advice on moving to LA?

His advice was like, moisturize.

I was like, I don't know what to do with that, man.

He's like, it is a dry climate.

Yeah, it's a dry climate.

Well, this is the point where I fallate you and bring you out of the closet.

So memorable.

I mean, there's like a handful of people I can remember from almost the first scene I saw him in going, like, oh my God, this person's fucking hysterical.

Watching Veep, I was like, well, who is this guy?

What is he?

Like on the main stage at UCB?

Is he a groundling?

What's the story?

This guy's fucking right out of the gates.

Brilliant.

What is it?

80-20.

My money it's on this right here yeah 80 24.

i'll go up these stairs yeah girl oh you did it we did it had people been let your dax shepherd that was our hopes yeah but um no 90 of the time it says leave it leave it at the door because no one wants to talk to their delivery driver and the few times it has been a handoff actually there was one person who looked very confused you could tell he recognized them but couldn't make sense out of it and then the last time we went out was with kristen so of course there's a handoff and then daggers like oh kristen's in here too and they went crazy but no most of the time you just leave it at the door you just leave it at the door and they don't even know they know that's what they look at you through the window and wait for you to turn around yeah they can't wait for you what's that relate to it's like something so embarrassing i feel like i don't deserve it

i'm not better than you exactly i thank you very much for the compliment i will say that while not taking any abilities that I might have out of the equation, I think I found myself in the best possible circumstance for me to contribute in that not having a lot of experience, it being a very like non-traditional show, and that we had these like long rehearsal processes.

I don't know that I would have been set up for success in a situation that was a little bit more like, okay, this is your first day of shooting.

I was learning everything as we went.

Yeah, yeah.

And like, it's going to be kind of embarrassing.

I didn't know how to read a call sheet.

I thought the second AD was my boss.

She came by in my fitting and was like, oh, I like your glasses, but they were just my regular glasses.

Yeah.

And I was like, do I have to wear my glasses in the show now?

But I was in a situation in which before we started filming the pilot, we had like six days of rehearsal in this hotel in Baltimore that we were all staying in.

And I was also a part of a group of people who were incredibly supportive.

It very much had like an ensemble feel.

And so even though, yeah, I was nervous to be in the room with, I had just gone through UCB, so Matt Welch is in there.

Yeah, the godfather.

And huge Arrested Development fan, Tony Hale's in there, and like Julia Louis Dreyfus is an icon.

Even though I was nervous, especially top down, both Julia and Armando made it a situation where they forgave me for my green moments

and also allowed me to be a contributor.

And I don't know that if I had just been like cast on a show and shown up, that I would have ultimately built up the confidence to be able to participate.

Yeah, I have the exact same story.

Well, first of all, I think that's generous and I believe you, but also very intimidating as much as, yes, they did turn out to be so helpful and supportive.

Also, it's a big league to step into.

So I could see that crushing someone.

There's a lot of experience you're stepping into.

I will also say that I was lucky in that when I was going through the audition process and I didn't really know a lot of ARM's work, but as I went through the audition process, went back to start watching it, I did have some confidence in that I was like, oh, this is exactly the shit that I feel like I'm good at.

Not that I know a lot, but I feel like I know this world.

Even if it takes me a little while, I feel like I'm in a wheelhouse that I kind of understand.

Yeah, it's not abstract to you.

Yeah.

Punch was the same way.

I couldn't really act.

You couldn't give me a scene.

I wouldn't have been that good.

But the fact that I got eight episodes of improv, which I could do, led people to believe that I could act and read scenes and stuff.

And I remember, and I'm so grateful because I went from eight years of auditioning, nothing.

Then this show punked.

I just gotten kicked out of the groundlings as well.

Really?

Yes, out of the Sunday company.

And so I get this show and it airs.

And of course, I'm like, and now what?

It's a very big show, and people know my name.

That's really cool.

And thank God, this guy, Steve Brill, he thought I was so funny on the show.

And he was casting without a paddle.

And I went and auditioned, and I wasn't very good.

And he was like I know you can do this and we're gonna get you this so I'm gonna bring Seth in who's a great improver Seth green and you guys are just gonna improv your audition and I'm gonna send that to the head of the studio she'll have no idea what scenes are real and what aren't yeah yeah yeah and I got to do that I just got to improv with Seth for a half hour and he cut together a thing and had it not been for him I don't know how I really end up as well like the combination of yeah getting to do exactly what I know how to do on punked because you couldn't come in and give me a no yeah and then this guy Steve Brill who believed in me so much you're naturally funny and eventually like there is a thing about this industry that i think is cool you can work with that right like you get technically better as you go along yes but like you can't be technically good and then become funny yes you're right there's no learning curve for that or at least i don't think i kind of feel like without a paddle shot in chicago or in the midwest didn't it no new zealand oh it did which imagine that eight years of no work, and then my first job is go to New Zealand for four months.

Oh, yeah.

Go canoeing, jump off waterfalls, write fucking ATVs, work with Burt Reynolds.

I own it.

Believe that.

Yeah,

there's just no way.

Like, when I found out they had cast Burt Reynolds, who's my childhood idol, I was like, I'm going to die in the middle of this movie or something.

This is all too good to be true.

I feel like I may have auditioned for something in that movie out of Chicago.

Are you sure it wasn't Let's Go to Prison?

Because Let's Go to Prison.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It was Let's Go to Prison.

Because we shot that there and it did have.

Kechner was in it, who was I there was a lot of Chicago folks because Odin Kirk directed it.

The craziest casting in that was Michael Shannon.

Oh, yeah.

How good was he?

Oh, my God.

I mean, I guess it was obvious when I watched him.

I just remember thinking, this guy deserves to be a much better movie.

He truly does.

And that was true.

He then went on to do like Road to Perdition.

This is the thing that I kind of love because I have always been somebody who like really loves a community, loves an ensemble.

I love the small world nature of the business, even throughout the entire country.

Yeah.

And that the day that I moved to Chicago, dropped my bags at the house, and they were like, we have tickets to see a show at a Red Orchid, which was one of Michael Shannon's theater companies.

Oh, right.

He was in it.

No.

Hangs Dong at the end of the play.

Hangs dong.

Full dick.

Oh, wow.

Bang dang.

Full dick.

Small theater.

Yeah, he's a big guy.

Did he have a nice hog?

Yeah, big, good, good, good, good.

Thick one.

Good stage dick.

Like his voice.

And not timid.

You could tell he's used to it because it wasn't like nervous that it's out there.

And then, like, 45 minutes later, after hanging out at the bar, I was in the back seat of a convertible that Michael Shannon was in the passenger seat of, and Michael Shannon's childhood therapist was driving.

Are you born?

That's impossible.

It's like that is like we were like going to a bar or a house party just somewhere in Chicago, and it is my first night in town.

Oh, yeah.

And that is like that thing that I love about the small world versions of this.

Just because I went and saw a play when I was a kid, I got to see David Harbor.

And just because I showed up in Chicago one day, I met Michael Shannon.

Yeah.

Okay, so here's a question for you.

Okay.

Veep, in my mind, was a very big show.

How does the reaction to that compare to nobody wants this?

Kristen's never been in anything other than frozen that would compare to the level of viewership and attention and cultural phenomena that you had to like give a numeric value to them.

Are they the same?

When I go to the airport, I will be recognized previously once.

Right after the show came out, I was going back and forth.

I was working on a job in Vancouver right when Nobody Wants This came out.

And I got recognized.

People stopped me to say hi minimum 10 times.

Yeah, yeah.

And even there was one time where like the canadian tsa agents

she looked at my passport looked at me and went this is the guy from the show i was just

literally she had just told him to watch the show right i don't think it really compares like in actual numbers this is a brand new experience yeah well i've been with kristen for 18 years and she's obviously very famous but the last time we were in new york which is generally a city where people won't stop you literally every third person on the street shit their pants.

And I go, hun, you're fucking too famous to be out in New York with.

This is crazy.

We can't get anywhere.

The show is a mess.

So many people have seen the show and they've responded to it.

And I'm so thankful for that.

It is also like you are constantly reminded that whatever tier you're on, there are subsections of that tier.

And it is people very confidently getting your name wrong.

And you're like, oh at the after sag's party i had a full three minute conversation with someone who thought i was the guy from baby reindeer oh my god and in the first 10 seconds that's too bad mix

and also i don't have an english accent no you know so she must have

he's a normal height i mean i guess i had a beard at the time but very physically different people

different accents but the first thing was a selfie and then it was a conversation about how much the show meant to her.

And she was really looking forward to the things that I do next.

And you're rightly assuming she's talking about nobody wants to.

No, within the first 15 seconds, I knew that she was talking.

But I was just like,

I just can't pull the rug out from underneath.

Right.

You don't want to ruin their experience.

And also, I felt like it would make them feel embarrassed.

Yeah.

What if you swapped to a Scottish accent mid-conversation?

In that situation, do you think you do that?

Do you let it ride?

Yeah, yeah.

They'll say they love Garden State.

Can I get a picture for sure?

And Zach has done the same a bunch of times with me.

Do you remember how popular that face swapping app was?

Yes.

It was all the rage.

And we happened to be somewhere together and we did it.

And I can tell you, it's a mind-melty photo.

Whose face went on whose body?

I'm kind of like putting a judgment on myself.

Is that like a good behavior?

Is that codependency that I can't hurt somebody?

Or is this a kindness that I didn't embarrass her in that moment?

I think the latter, because I think from your own selfish point of view, it's much easier to just do the thing than to sit there and explain and then have, oh, yeah, and we look alike.

You're being very humble, but I think by doing it.

Now you got to explain, no, I'm on a show.

You kind of have got to give your resume,

which is kind of humiliating.

It's just the whole thing would be easier and everyone would be happy.

It's a very utilitarian outcome, I think.

It's like maximum happiness for both people involved.

I think that's the ethical thing to do.

I'm not saying this about the guy from Baby Reindeer because I do think he's an odd-looking guy, but I think he's a good-looking guy.

Yeah, yeah.

Have you ever had this happen to you?

I have learned to never tell another actor that they look like another actor.

The amount of times that I've been told I look like somebody, if I don't know them, I look them up and I'm like, oh, that person looks like a fucking melted candy.

You're always bummed.

You're always bummed.

You can have a simultaneous, terrible opinion of how you look and feel better looking than other people.

I don't understand it because I have a very low opinion of how I look.

But anytime I'm told I look at the person, I'm like, Jesus, it's that bad.

Man, one time there were like a bunch of people, and I'm not on Twitter anymore, but there were like a bunch of people being like, there should be a biopic about the guy who played like one of the bad underlings in the Superman movies.

Oh, you know who I'm talking about?

He's floating in the prism at the beginning.

Yes.

Yes.

Like that guy.

And I was like...

Well, he kind of looks like Justin Thoreau, but Justin Thoreau's gorgeous.

Or no, that's the other guy.

One guy has a beard.

I know exactly who you're talking about.

Yes.

And it's like, oh, okay.

Yeah.

God, I hope that guy's dead and doesn't listen to this.

Look, it's universal.

I have a fucking friend.

I shouldn't say fucking.

I adore this friend.

Aaron and I are both friends with him.

And he's like, oh my God, if I get fucking told I look like Zach Efron one more time.

And I go, boo-hoo.

Oh, my God.

I would fucking.

Oh, my child.

Look at that.

I love this child.

Hi, child.

Mom's Connor.

Hi.

We're just finishing an episode!

I know your face is a good one.

Tim from the show.

From No Voices.

Hi.

Oh, I got a little jump.

Tim's mom, right?

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Okay, I love you.

Oh, I've never seen her walking home from school.

It's so fucking adorable.

Tim, this was

party.

This was such fun.

I'm so glad this worked out.

It's fun, right?

You drive around a car and shoot the shit.