Armchair Anonymous: Wedding II

Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free right now.

Join Wondry Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Anonymous.

I'm Dak Shepard, and I'm joined by Lily Padman.

Hello.

Today is wedding disasters that was incubated in another episode where someone was arrested at their wedding.

That's right.

We thought this is probably ripe for some good stories.

And it was.

And it was ripe as fuck.

Ripe AF.

There's theft, there's allergies, there's too much semen.

I mean, there's a lot.

Oh, I forgot.

Yeah, there's a lot happening on wedding nights.

So please enjoy wedding disasters.

We are supported by function health.

You know what's fascinating?

Your body is constantly sending signals about your health, but most of us only see a tiny fraction of that data.

That's why I chose Function.

It's the only health platform that gives you access to over a hundred biomarkers from hormones to heart health markers all tracked in one secure place.

I love this because I agree that normal regs, blood work and stuff, it doesn't get it all.

And sometimes you find hidden things in these hormone checks.

Yes.

I love seeing my health data mapped out over time.

It helps me understand exactly what's happening in my body.

It's no wonder top health leaders like Dr.

Mark Hyman and Andrew Huberman are behind function health.

This platform truly empowers you to to own your own health journey.

Learn more and join using our link.

The first 1,000 people get $100 credit toward their membership.

Visit www.functionhealth.com slash DAX or use code DAX100 at signup to own your health.

We are supported by BetterHelp.

You know what's wild?

October 10th is World Mental Health Day, and it got me thinking about all the incredible therapists out there making a real difference.

BetterHelp therapists alone have helped over 5 million people worldwide.

That's a lot lot of lives changed.

One conversation at a time.

I love my therapist so much.

I saw her twice last week after my personal tragedy.

She was so helpful in helping me process everything.

Yeah.

Finding the right therapist can feel overwhelming, but BetterHelp makes it simple.

They've spent 12 plus years perfecting their match system, connecting people with licensed professionals from their network of over 30,000 therapists.

And with an average session rating of 4.9 out of 5 based on over 1.7 million client reviews.

They're clearly doing something right.

This World Mental Health Day, we're celebrating the therapists who have helped millions of people take a step forward.

If you're ready to find the right therapist for you, BetterHelp can help you start that journey.

ArmCherries get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com/slash DAX.

That's betterhelp, h-e-l-p.com/slash dax.

Hard times come and go.

Good times,

take them slow.

My life,

I had them both.

Hello, is this Kelsey?

It is.

How are you?

Good.

Are your t-shirts always that perfectly folded, or did you straighten up before this?

I didn't straighten up before this.

They're not always that perfect, but I keep it tidy.

Where are you?

I'm in upstate New York, in Rochester.

Okay.

So you had a challenging wedding?

Yes, I did.

You did.

So we got married in Charleston, South Carolina, last October.

Okay.

Isle of Palms.

That's what my dad says.

We got married right downtown in Hampton Park.

It's so nice.

I was so excited.

I had been planning this day my entire life.

I knew the vision that I wanted.

I knew the color scheme.

I was just so over the moon excited to plan this wedding.

Was it a destination wedding or were you living in Charleston?

Everyone was coming from out of town.

Okay, okay.

So we have the rehearsal dinner the night before.

It's at this like big bar patio and that was going to roll right into a welcome party where everyone was invited.

My fiancé Trenton and I were like really looking forward to that.

It was going to be kind of this more casual wedding before the wedding.

We went like all out.

We got a band and we had an open bar and we got food for everyone.

So at the rehearsal, we ate around seven and then the welcome party started at eight.

So everybody starts coming in.

and right at eight, I'm standing with my best friend, Yavra, and I'm like, Yavra, I feel a little funny.

She's like, okay, well, it's like a little hot in here.

It's like overwhelming.

There's so many people.

Let's go out into the parking lot and get some fresh air.

So I'm like, okay.

We get out to the parking lot and I'm like, Yavra, do I look weird to you?

And she's like, no, you look great.

But immediately, I had a pit in my stomach.

I knew exactly what was happening.

I sprint into the restaurant, into the bathroom, and look in the mirror.

And I have this like dime-size swelling in the corner of my right eye.

And I'm just looking at it grow and grow and grow until my whole face within like seconds is swollen shut.

Oh,

shellfish.

Peanuts.

I have like a severe peanut allergy.

This restaurant swears up and down that they don't have any peanuts in house.

They don't carry any peanut products, but this is the only thing I'm allergic to.

And it always happens like an hour after I ingest it.

What had you eaten an hour before?

It was like German beer garden foods.

It was like kilbasa.

I think the thing that did me in was there was a salad.

It was like a peach and goat cheese salad or something, but it had like crunchy chickpeas on top that were fried.

My gut tells me that's what it was.

Maybe even fried in peanut oil.

Yeah.

So I'm in full anaphylactic shock now.

Oh, my God.

My throat is closing.

I can't breathe out of my nose.

I can't swallow.

And my face, the only way I can describe it, is I look like Will Smith in that movie Hitch.

Yeah.

He has an allergic reaction.

That's exactly what I look like.

I look

insane.

So I run outside to my mom and my fiancé and my brother and sister come over.

I'm like hiding between two cars.

I'm mortified.

In that moment, I cried harder than I've ever cried in my entire life.

I was having a full-blown panic attack and anaphylact shock at the same time.

Now, I don't want to victim shame you, but I got to ask a question.

I hate when people always ask me this because I was allergic to bee stings, but did you have an EpiPen?

I didn't.

Oh, no.

I know, I know.

I can relate, but I can relate.

No, if your body can do that at any moment, you 100% have to have a pen.

I know.

The only thing I will say is I always do.

It was just my rehearsal dinner.

I had nothing really with me, not my normal purse.

So Trenton and I have to like rush off to the hospital.

They give me epinephrine.

And then whenever they do that, they want to like observe you for eight hours, make sure you don't have any adverse reactions.

So that would bring me to 5 a.m., the morning of my wedding, laying in the hospital.

Oh, Jesus.

I kind of like accept defeat for a while.

We're laying there.

I'm in like my big white dress from the rehearsal dinner.

Everyone's at the party having a great time.

And finally, at like 12.45, I'm like, what am I doing here?

I ring the nurse's bell and I'm like, am I being detained?

I'm going to go now.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm with you.

I'm gonna walk out the front door.

So we get home at like 1:30.

So it's not too, too bad, but it's not like ideal.

Missed the whole party.

And so the morning of my wedding, I wake up.

First thing I do is open the camera on my phone.

I look at myself, and the swelling has just gotten so much worse as I slept.

Cause you're like laying down.

I looked like an absolute monster out of a movie.

It was so

depressing.

So I'm genuinely at this point considering calling off the wedding.

I can't do this.

I look insane.

The photography, the videography, walking down the aisle.

And leading up to the wedding, I had been working out more than ever before.

I had been eating so healthy, getting facials.

I wanted to look the most beautiful I've ever left.

It is the ugliest I could ever.

Oh my God.

This is like some sort of parable.

It is.

It is.

Tell me when I'm allowed to look at this photo that Rob supplied.

Yeah, you can look at it.

That's from the hospital the night before.

Oh, sure.

We're looking at you and then that you just

don't look like you at all.

No resemblance.

It doesn't look like me at all.

Oh, it got worse.

We were actually on a good photo.

Now we're also weirdly, it kind of made you 60.

It aged you somehow.

You do look a little older with all this fluid in your

face.

Oh, Kelsey, I'm so sorry.

Oh, no.

On your big dad.

Sal.

You seem to have a good attitude in these photos.

It's kind of like when you're in a little bit of shock, you're just like, I guess this is kind of funny.

But now looking back, it's like not funny at all.

Maybe you weren't smiling.

Maybe that's just the permanent.

Yeah, I'm stuck like that.

What can one take to reduce swelling?

Danitrill?

Maybe.

I took everything under the sun.

One of my friends is a PA and she gave me like Pepsid.

She said that helps with inflammation.

Pepsid AC?

Yeah, I think so.

Okay.

That rings a bell.

Yeah.

It's effervescent.

I remember it.

The day of my wedding, I'm like, I guess I just have to like start getting ready and like move on with the day.

So I'm like trying to have a good attitude about it.

I do end up having a good morning with my bridesmaids.

I'm kind of forgetting about it, even though I had so much to do the morning of my wedding and I was just stuck there with like two frozen spoons on my face trying to make the swelling go down.

At one point, I'm like, I'm going to go look over my vows on my phone and sit by the water for a second.

So I go outside, I open my phone, and I have an email from the catering manager from the night before.

So I'm like, oh, she's checking on my well-being, of course.

At this point, she doesn't even know if I'm freaking dead or alive.

So

I read the email, and it's like, Kelsey, in all of the craziness that happened last night, I actually forgot to charge you for some of the food, and you owe a full payment by the end of day today.

I was like, what planet are you living on?

I was just

rushed to the hospital from your restaurant.

You almost killed me.

It's my wedding day today, and you send this demanding, urgent email.

It was so crazy.

I was so filled with rage.

They like ruined my looks and now completely ruining my mood.

Did you respond?

Oh, yeah.

Oh,

yeah, yeah.

What kind of sharply toned?

Unhinged all caps.

Yeah.

I was like, how dare you never contact me again?

I was

a crazy back and forth fight with them my whole honeymoon.

I mean, you could have sued them.

Yeah, for reimbursement of the whole wedding.

At least the photography.

I can't even look at those photos.

Oh,

they look awful.

No, you still look great.

You look cute.

Yeah, you actually look cute.

Oh, my God.

I know what you got.

So when you were at the vows part and you were crying, were you crying about the state of affairs or joyful crying?

probably a little of both i walked down the aisle kind of pissed i was like this is not how i wanted this to go and i was kind of in a little bit of a bad mood at the end of the altar but then my brother did this reading and couldn't read it was like he had never read before in his life

I got like the church giggles from it and it kind of was this weird release and then everything kind of got better after that.

Oh good.

Little brother?

Big brother.

Oh big brother.

Okay.

Because I was going to say those little brothers, they're good for that.

That could go either way though.

You could be like, and and now you can't even read.

Freak out how to read.

Now this reading's gone downhill.

Now at any point where you like, oh no, these are signs from the universe.

No, I've actually never even thought that.

Oh, man, there's so much pressure on that day.

So much expectation.

So hard.

And so much money you spent.

That weirdly gets to me a lot when I think about it.

Yes.

This is why I'm a big proponent of the courthouse, everybody.

You go down there, you walk in, you walk out, then take a nice old trip.

There's something very special about everyone in both of your worlds being in one spot.

I love it.

I still think you can do it for about $150.

Order some dominoes, get everyone in the backyard.

Yeah, we spent more than that, but it was so fun.

It did end up being such a beautiful day.

The weather was great.

The DJ was incredible.

Luckily, there wasn't really many times I looked in the mirror, so I kept forgetting about it during the day.

Yeah, that's the move.

At the end of the day, the most important thing is like, I married Trenton.

I love him.

I'm like so lucky to be married to him.

He's the best husband in the world.

I guess all as well, that ends well, but it was pretty traumatic.

And you, for life, have a phenomenal story.

That's right.

No one would want to hear about your wedding at a dinner party otherwise.

I would be fine with that.

We wouldn't have to talk about it.

You're like, I have plenty of other stories.

I didn't need this.

Yeah, totally.

A lot of people are like, you'll laugh about this someday.

I'm like, no, I won't.

That is so rude.

Oh my gosh.

I was trying to glass half full it, but I guess we're going to stick with it being a hard time.

That's all right.

You can feel all your feelings.

Yeah, you're entitled.

Thank you.

Oh, well, Kelsey, that was really funny, despite you saying it's not funny.

It was very funny on our end.

We're glad we got to hear it.

Yeah.

I'm glad it brought me to you guys.

So it's okay.

Well, have a great rest of your day.

Thanks for chatting.

Thank you so much for letting me tell this.

This was so great.

All right.

Take care.

Okay, you too.

Bye.

Oh, poor Kelsey.

That's rough.

That's tough.

These are going to be tougher than we anticipated.

yeah there could be some happy stories um i think we asked for bad disaster

hi clara how are you doing wonderful i'm trying to take in all your many shoes behind you it's a very athletic household it's my husband's closet is he a runner not really he just has a ton of sneakers okay he just likes comfortable footwear where are you at clara i'm in charlotte north carolina oh okay we're staying in the region we just had a wedding story from charleston oh nice.

So you're in Charlotte, and are you from there?

I'm originally from Columbia, South America, and moved to North Carolina when I was like seven years old.

Oh, wow, wonderful.

I love North Carolina.

Do you ever get over to the Blue Ridge Parkway and the Blue Ridge Mountains?

I have.

I'm going to Asheville this weekend, actually.

Oh, you are?

Oh, because I'm actually going with a friend to help her do some wedding planning.

Ding, ding, ding.

Dingles.

So tell us, you have a challenging wedding story.

Yeah.

So me and my husband got engaged in September of 2023.

I really wanted a long engagement so I wouldn't stress and worry about wedding planning last minute.

So we ended up finding a venue.

It was called Champagne Manor in December of that year.

It checked all the boxes.

It seemed perfect.

It was beautiful.

And the owner was offering this 2025 wedding package deal.

That was one set price and you got everything with it.

All the vendors, two night stay.

I love it.

Turnkey.

exactly the only thing i didn't really like was that there was a tent for the reception area and i wanted something indoors he actually said that there was a structure coming that was like this glass ballroom showed us pictures and it was going to be ready by like early 2024.

he also said there was construction starting on these cottages so more people could stay on the property so we booked it for may 17th 2025.

we paid the deposit which was ten thousand dollars and didn't have to start paying all the payments until later on but he convinced us to put more money down because then he'd take off more of the total.

And then he offered some upgrades and we ended up putting down $30,000.

My heart rate's already up.

And then we still had more to pay, but weren't going to pay until the end of the year.

He just kept having all these little promotions where he was offering all this crazy stuff and just wanted a bunch of money up front.

Oh, boy.

It started getting a little weird.

Like he was offering fireworks.

He even said you could get a bouncy house.

Oh my gosh.

That's classy.

He just started getting really bad at communicating with me.

He was taking forever to respond.

I was like, okay, so what's up with the construction?

Where's the ballroom?

What's going on?

Connecting with the vendors.

And he did connect me and everything eventually, but he just took forever to do it.

And I started planning the whole wedding, but I was still just getting worried about the whole thing because he was being so sketchy.

So I was like, let's have a meeting about it in person.

My mom wants to see the venue.

So we went, me and my husband with my mom.

And this was end of the year, 2024.

It was in December.

Still, the ballroom wasn't ready, but he was like, I promise it'll be ready for your wedding and it's going to be great.

And when I tell you, this guy's just a really good salesman.

He's just very charming and convincing.

My curiosity for someone like this is, do they believe it?

Or are they just a straight fucking liar?

And how can you do that?

I just don't have it in me.

It felt like one of those, he's such a liar that he makes himself believe it.

Yes.

I guess to get through it, you kind of have to.

We actually left pretty reassured, feeling better about it that day.

And then two weeks later, we get this very long, dramatic email that he wrote.

He was like, I have tears in my eyes writing this email, told us all about his financial problems, his family problems, his mental health.

And basically that the venue was foreclosed on in October.

Oh my God.

Not going to own it anymore.

He was renting it back, trying to get it back, and then he just couldn't do it.

So all weddings were canceled.

And he was working on a repayment plan for everyone.

This is what, three months before before your wedding?

It was January 2nd.

The wedding was May 17th.

Okay, fine.

Has your birthday?

Bad luck birthday.

Oh, man.

We are supported by HBO Max.

Listen, if you loved I Think You Should Leave, you're going to be obsessed with Tim Robinson's new series, The Chair Company.

Monica, I got to watch early screening, and it's the same brilliant off-kilter comedy that makes all of Tim's work so special.

And my ex-wife, Lake Bell, is on it.

That's a weird way to introduce her, but

I guess we never got divorced or anything on the show.

Okay, you did a show with Lake Bell in which you were a husband.

That's right.

And she's now on this, which makes me so happy for her because I couldn't be a bigger fan of I Think You Should Leave.

Yes.

I think he's the funniest human working.

He really is.

Here's what I can tell you.

After an embarrassing incident at work, a man finds himself investigating a far-reaching conspiracy.

And that's just the beginning of this wild ride.

From the creators of I Think You Should Leave, this is exactly the kind of fresh, innovative comedy that HBO Max does best.

Watch new episodes of The Chair Company every Sunday at 10 p.m., only on HBO Max.

We are supported by The Secret of Secrets, the thrilling new novel from Dan Brown, author of The Da Vinci Code.

When Robert Langdon's romantic prog getaway turns deadly, he thrusts into a race against time.

His new love's groundbreaking research on human consciousness could change everything we know about life after death, but someone will kill to keep it hidden.

Brown masterfully weaves non-stop action with ancient codes and mind-bending mythology while exploring the fascinating world of noetic science: how human consciousness shapes our reality.

Already a number one bestseller and optioned by Netflix, the secret of secrets is the escape you've been waiting for.

Get your copy today, available in print and as an audiobook.

We are supported by Nordic Naturals.

Did you know that only 20% of Americans get enough omega-3s from their diet?

Join the 20% and discover the power of Omega-3 with Nordic Naturals.

Nordic Naturals is the number one selling Omega-3 brand in the US with products formulated to support your whole family, including kids and pets.

You know, I was heavily recommended to up my Omega-3, and I was recommended by my doctor to get Nordic Naturals, And I've been on it long before they were a sponsor.

And by the way, my omega-3 levels are dynamite now.

Nice.

If you've tried other Omega-3 supplements, you might have had what those in the biz call fish burps.

Not cute.

And not with Nordic Naturals.

Their best-selling ultimate omega fish oil provides concentrated omega-3 support without any fishy aftertaste.

I can confirm that I would never have anything that included fish burps.

Use promo code DAX for 15% off your next order at nordic.com and discover the power of Omega-3 for yourself.

That's Nordic.com promo code DAX for 15% off.

These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration.

This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.

So I just have to re-plan a whole wedding, I guess.

First thing, we just started calling a bunch of venues.

We toured five or six venues within like 48 hours.

I called the vendors and actually told them because they weren't even informed and just started planning a whole new wedding.

The second part of it was, where's my money?

I blew up his email, wasn't answering, tried calling both the numbers we had for him, went straight to voicemail.

So this guy fully ghosted us.

I ended up finding another bride that was going through the same thing.

So we connected.

She knew a couple more.

We started a group chat.

We started telling each other everything that happened, how much money we paid, all the lies he told us.

We We just started finding out more and more and more.

And this group chat just kind of started growing too.

We started adding more people to it.

I ended up doing a news interview with my husband on a local Charlotte News.

I was going to say, this could be a doc.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You could see this as a doc, Netflix, caller.

So after that, people started reaching out to me on social media.

And then we started adding them to the group chat.

How many people are we looking at at this point?

It was about 25 people in the group chat.

And then there was a Facebook group with like at least double that.

Oh my God.

And how much money do we

stole a million dollars?

Yes, he did.

It was over a million.

At this point, I'm getting mad.

I feel like the Latina and me fully came out and I was like, if I don't get my money back, I'm at least going to make it my mission to destroy this man's reputation.

Right.

So he can't do this again.

Justice.

So that's what I did.

We actually figured out that he was selling stuff from the venue on Facebook Marketplace.

So I decided to get one of my friends to message him and pretend to be interested in buying 75 chairs.

I got her to unfriend me to make sure there were no ties back to me and just set up a time and place to meet him and pick up the chairs.

So me and my husband showed up instead.

The look on his face was absolutely priceless.

Oh, wow.

Is that what the picture is?

No, it's something else.

Oh, okay, okay.

At this point, I knew he had no money and I wasn't expecting him to just give us money at that point, but I mainly wanted to confront him and yell at him and be like, what's wrong with you?

So that's what we did.

We yelled at him for like 25 minutes.

What was his demeanor?

He was just like, I'm so sorry.

And did a lot of blaming it on all his family issues and stuff that was going on at home.

And he was like, I feel so bad.

This is also horrible for me.

And very victim-like.

That classic narcissist.

Yeah, they're always a victim.

I would be fearful for myself in that situation.

Did it almost get physical?

No, we were definitely yelling at him, but he was very calm and nice and apologetic.

I had a couple of people tell me like, this is a bad idea.

You shouldn't go.

And I'm like, I have a gut feeling that this guy is just a coward and it's going to be fine.

I was right.

Yeah.

My husband definitely was like very pissed and was yelling at him.

Yeah.

You steal 30 grand from me.

We got beef.

Yeah.

So he told us to do credit card disputes and that that would be our best bet.

At the end of the meeting with him, I did tell him, in case you didn't notice, no one's buying your chairs.

So have fun putting those up.

So that was satisfying.

After that, somebody reported everything to the police.

The sheriff wanted more police reports.

Everyone started calling in.

We recorded the whole meeting with him.

So we gave him all the recordings, told him everything we did.

So the police now had enough to arrest them.

They used my strategy.

So they pretended to be interested in buying something from him and then drove over there, bunch of cop cars and arrested him.

Wow.

We realized he had actually moved to Pennsylvania and was only in North Carolina to sell stuff, but he had moved and started an Airbnb business.

So it seemed like he was on to his next scam.

But he had a bond hearing.

They set his bond for a million dollars.

10 of us showed up to the hearing.

The DA made a statement, got us all to stand up.

We found out that the thing was even bigger than we thought.

There was a couple that actually invested $100,000 into a catering business that never existed.

Real life con artists.

It got so bad that the FBI got involved.

We got a call from an FBI and gave her all our information.

So there's still an ongoing investigation about that.

His next hearing is end of October because he is still in jail since then.

Wow.

Wow.

And did he have any assets that could be be seized to help pay back now?

I work at a law firm, so I talked to some lawyers and I was able to pull up his like report.

He had no assets.

He had lost everything.

He had a business that went under before

and a lot of sketchy stuff came up.

I wonder what he's doing with all the money, just trying to make this business work or is he buying ski boats?

I have no idea.

That's what we were wondering, too, because that's a lot of money that he took.

And he kept saying that he was putting it all into the venue.

We were able to get our money back through credit card disputes.

Not Not everybody was so lucky.

And some people did credit card disputes and their banks denied them.

Some, what credit cards offered, like fraud protection?

Is that how you were able to get reimbursed?

Yeah.

And it just depends on the bank because there was one girl that said that she got part of her money back, but one of the cards that they used, the bank was like, no, we're denying it.

Well, that's a blessing that you got, though.

Yeah, it kind of worked out.

It worked out.

The venue we found was called Pearl Mansion.

It was in Charlotte.

We actually did have to move the wedding date.

It was two weeks pushback so that was fun redesigning all the invites and telling everyone

but you have this great story now that you're a crime investigator yeah we did also do a second interview after the arrest and the guy was like so how do you feel now after he got arrested and there's a really great clip of my husband going it feels like justice oh

we worked it out in the end but the whole thing was just so crazy that is wild so am i allowed to look look at the photo now?

Yeah, it's his bug shot.

Oh,

great.

Okay.

Wow.

42 years old, white male.

I mean, it's interesting.

If you heard this story and it was about a guy who saved Christmas, would I look at his face and go, like, yeah, that guy looks like he'd saved Christmas.

But because I know this about him, I'm like, yeah, this guy looks like a total fucking.

He could go multiple ways.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Definitely.

He's not happy in this shot.

He's got a frown.

Yeah.

Yeah.

This is not his best day.

Very charming and convincing about everything.

I mean, a lot of people felt for it.

These narcissists, they say, are really empathetic.

That's like one of their superpowers.

Like psychopaths.

Yeah, maybe it's psychopaths.

I think it's psychopaths.

Sociopaths.

Psycho, socio, and narcissists.

Maybe socio.

But now you're happily married.

Yes, it all worked out.

Didn't go exactly the way we planned, but the wedding was great.

Well, Claire, that's an incredible story.

Thank you so much for telling us.

Can I give a quick shout out to my friend Rosa?

She was the one that got me started listening to your podcast in the first place, and she convinced me to submit my story.

Oh, of course.

Shout out, Rosa.

So nice talking to you.

Yeah, nice to see you.

Have a good rest of your day.

You too.

All right.

Bye-bye.

I said, good.

This guy.

He looks like a bozo.

Yeah, he does.

I feel though, his life could have gone in so many directions.

It went with that face.

Yeah.

It has some promise.

I mean, he's not unattractive.

Right.

But he looks like a fucking dope.

Yeah, he does.

Maybe it's the orange outfit.

It's hard to know.

If I put my thumbs over the orange.

Well, that does improve things a little bit.

His hair is kind of nice.

I mean, especially in a mugshot, I think you look the worst you've ever looked.

True.

He looks like a lot of guys from my town.

Yeah, I think that's maybe what I see too.

It's like, I know that guy.

He went to my high school.

These guys are a dime a dozen.

Hi.

Hi.

What is that?

A Cardinal shirt?

What is that?

Blue Jays?

Blue Jays.

Are you up in Canada?

yes i am were you born and raised yes and i'm not gonna say a boot i bet you might you might get flowing and it'll come out maybe yeah

you know i was just a few hours south of you in detroit marysville michigan was where my grandparents lived so we spent a lot of time there and a lot of time at cedar point

oh of course

cedar point anymore i haven't

heard he's moved on to dollywood that doesn't mean i don't love cedar point it means i've added loving dollywood Dollywood.

You said you think Dollywood is the best.

Might be the best music park in the country.

Yeah.

Have you been to Dollywood?

I have not.

Worth the trip.

It's in the Smoky Mountains.

Very beautiful.

So you have a crazy wedding story for us?

Yes, I do.

So it was in 1997.

So quite a long time ago.

Our wedding date was November the 15th.

It's chilly, but fall leaves.

It was going to be beautiful.

We booked this beautiful park.

Day before, massive snowstorm.

Everything screeches to a halt.

Now it's Friday.

We have to rush around and try and get all the rentals because nobody's delivering anything.

So that works out okay.

We manage.

I was working as a chef at the time, so I was able to gather the things that we needed with the help of a lot of people.

So the day of, things start to go sideways pretty early in the day.

We get up in the morning, it's still snowing.

So now we have nowhere to take our pictures.

We reach out to different people.

We end up booking a pool haul to get our pictures taken up.

Do we play pool?

No.

But all of my wedding pictures are pool hall themed.

So we get to the church and I'm so ambitious.

I'm so confident.

I have this long train.

I'm going to make this dramatic entrance.

As we're walking in, my veil gets caught in the doorway of the church.

And so yanks my head back.

My dad thinks I'm balking now.

I don't want to go through with it.

So he's dragging me down the aisle, get to the front of the church.

We're missing quite a few people because of the snowstorm.

I look over at my now ex-husband and he is

sobbing.

And I don't mean like sentimental sobbing.

I mean like, oh, fuck, sobbing.

Oh, my God.

What am I doing?

Oh, panic sobbing.

Regret sobbing.

It's awkward.

Oh, I'm still smiling.

I'm like,

that's going to be fine.

The minister leans forward and says, should we continue?

It's that noticeable.

So my ex-husband says, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, okay.

I guess.

We're here.

I guess if we have to, sure.

So we continue.

He apologizes after.

Everybody's talking about the crying.

Oh, my God.

Oh, man.

I'm so sorry.

Did you say, like, are you okay?

What's happening?

Yeah.

And what did he say?

He couldn't talk.

He was sobbing so hard.

Oh, Oh, my God.

Tried not to take it personally, but you know,

yeah.

Worst day of his life.

Then we get to the hall.

Things are going a little better now.

He seems a bit more relaxed and people are coming in.

Now, my mom, who's now passed away, was a bit of an addict.

She shows up to the wedding.

Now, she was separated from my stepfather.

So it's my biological father, my stepfather.

They're both amazing.

But she shows up with her boyfriend.

Oh, nice.

Oh, boy.

Plot twist.

Her boyfriend is the ex-husband of her cousin, who's also at the wedding.

Oh, wonderful.

It's turning into an episode of Jerry Springer quickly.

It gets even more Jerry Springer-ish as we go.

We notice he also brings his three delinquent children with him, 19, 20-year-olds.

I've never met them.

They weren't invited.

Here they are.

We're sitting at the head table.

We're trying to keep an eye on that shit show over there.

Over here, there's a tablecloth catches on fire.

Oh, so spontaneous combustion.

There's a poltergeist at the wedding.

There must be.

We'll get that under control.

The night's going on.

My maid of honor is just like, I don't know what to do.

It was crazy.

Then what happens is there was a group of baseball players.

So my ex-husband was a baseball player.

And so some of his buddies came up and told us that they found these kids, the boyfriend's children, in the coat room going through coat pockets and purses.

Great, great, great, great.

These guys bounce them out of the hall.

They've gotten away with what we think is a few checkbooks, some loose change.

We're not too upset about it.

We can deal with that later.

We are supported by Liquid IV.

Boy, have I been doubling up on Liquid IV because I am just sweating up a storm down south and I've got to have my electrolytes.

When I was in New York, it was so hot.

I was walking everywhere and I really needed to replen.

You've got to carry them.

Listen, however you're soaking up the last bits of summer, you can capture sun-drenched memories with the Orange Vanilla Dream Hydration Multiplier from Liquid IV.

This nostalgic vanilla flavor with notes of candied orange is not only going to help keep you hydrated, it'll instantly transport you into a happy summer mood.

But don't worry, if that one's not your vibe, they have so many delicious flavors to choose from.

I do love that orange vanilla dream.

I think I love the nostalgia of it as well.

Liquid IV is your trusted sidekick.

Just pop one of the hydration multipliers in your backpack, purse, car, wherever you are, you can fight dehydration on the go.

Just one stick and 16 ounces of water hydrates better than water alone.

With three times the electrolytes of the leading sports drink, Liquid IV is a simple way to make sure your hydration stays on point.

Savor the last bits of summer with Liquid IV.

Tear, pour, live more.

Go to liquidiv.com and get 20% off your first order with code DAX at checkout.

That's 20% off your first order with codax at liquidiv.com.

This episode is brought to you by Anthropic.

So I've been genuinely obsessed with this AI called Claude, and I have to tell you about it because it's completely different from what you'd expect.

You know how our conversations with guests always end up in fascinating and kind of raw places, exploring why people make the choices they do or diving diving into those complicated human moments that don't have easy answers.

Well, I started using Claude to help me think through some of these deeper questions between episodes.

And what's wild is that it doesn't rush to answers.

It actually thinks through problems with you.

When I'm preparing for interviews, I can upload research papers or articles and Claude helps me explore different angles, like search the web for current perspectives, even build interactive research tools using something called artifacts to map out complex topics.

Basically, it's like having this thinking partner that matches your curiosity about the complicated stuff.

When I'm trying to understand a guesswork or explore connections between different ideas, Claude helps me see blind spots I might miss.

Try Claude for free at claude.ai slash armchair expert and see why the world's best problem solvers choose Claude as their thinking partner.

We are supported by YNAB.

Do you experience excessive bouts of money stress?

Oh my gosh, do I.

Do you avoid your bank balance like it's a text from an ex?

Do you feel guilt and second guessing about your spending?

If you answer yes, you may be suffering from financial funk.

YNAB, spelled YNAB, is a life-changing app designed to cure financial funk with a simple method that offers total control of your money.

The average YNAB user reports saving close to $600 in their first month and $6,000 in their first year.

Side effects may include less financial stress, getting better sleep, and eliminating arguments about money.

Warning, using YNAB may be habit-forming.

Before starting, ask your wallet if adding more joy to every day and every dollar is right for you.

Listeners of Armchair Expert can claim an exclusive three-month trial subscription for free with no credit card required at www.ynab.com/slash DAX.

That's ynab.com/slash DAX.

Life is short.

Spend it well with YNAB.

So, because we kicked them out, my mom, who's now hammering,

she's mad and her boyfriend's mad, and they are freaking out.

She marches up.

So, the way the hall was, picture a school gymnasium with the stage at the end, which was where the DJ was.

She marches up on stage, gets a hold of the mic, points at me, and says, You are a fucking bitch.

Oh my god,

my Lord.

To her own daughter,

so now's the point where I'm like, I'm gonna dip.

I'm done.

I don't think this is a great idea for me to be here.

And in the meeting, now my stepdad is rushing the stage.

So, Jerry Springer, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

He's gonna get her out of there.

I would have said the baseball players to 86.

Her, we got another customer, Booter.

Exactly.

This isn't going the way I planned, obviously, between the crying and the stealing.

And my maid of honor, her and her husband offered to drive us to the hotel.

So the hotel, for context, is like the most popular hotel at the time.

All the brides and grooms go there to have their lovely wedding night.

We go out to get into the car and there's a, I don't know if you guys have it there, but we have these things called a ride program.

And so basically it's a drinking and driving checkpoint.

Oh, okay.

Okay.

So they've set up those police officers and cars and they're pulling everybody over outside of the Ukrainian hall in Hamilton on a Saturday night.

They're cleaning up.

Yeah, yeah.

Guess what?

And everyone's had something to drink.

So we get by it.

We get to the canot and we're in the elevator with these two other lovely couples, brides in their beautiful gowns, and everybody's happy.

And I'm sobbing.

My ex-husband's like awkwardly just looking around, like, oh, God, this day.

He's already living with regrets.

That night wasn't any fun.

The The next day, we come to find out we had like a wishing well at the wedding.

So people put their envelopes with money in the wishing well.

The rotten children had stolen the wishing well.

Oh my God.

Wow, they're really rotten children.

I mean, they're stealing at a wedding.

We tried to get a hold of them.

Our honeymoon, we had planned to drive to Horseshoe Valley.

Car broke down on the way.

Oh, it was one thing after the other.

How long did this marriage last?

Off and on, 20 years.

Oh, wow.

That's an unexpected answer.

Already had a couple children.

Like, I had a child, he had a child, and then we had three children together.

So, no regrets there.

Yeah, you got three beautiful kids out of it.

What happened to the rotten children?

Are they all incarcerated?

Yeah, actually, a couple of them ended up going to jail.

She didn't end up marrying that boyfriend and this rotten children.

Whoa.

So they were your stepbrothers for a minute.

Yeah.

Isn't it so nice when your parents prioritize their new boyfriend's fucking children who they don't even know?

Isn't that so flattering?

I was afraid.

Jesus.

That makes for a great story.

Thanks for chatting with me.

You too.

Amazing.

I'm sorry you had that wedding, but I'm delighted to meet you for it.

All right.

Take care.

Thanks.

Bye-bye.

Hello.

Hi.

Is this Jake?

Jake, where are you?

I am in North Carolina.

Oh, my God.

This is crazy.

Okay, We had a South Carolina, a North Carolina,

Canada.

We'll throw that one out as an outlier.

And then another North Carolina.

Y'all are getting married down there.

Well, this did not happen in North Carolina.

Oh, it didn't.

Okay.

We rescind that then.

All right.

Yeah.

Tell us about it.

Wait, are you wearing a Red Bull shirt?

I am.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Max Verstappen's God.

That's right.

I was an avid listener of F1 with DRS.

Oh, I appreciate it.

This is actually about my wedding and my wife's.

So a little bit of background.

We both grew up and still are Mormon or LDS, grew up going to nine hours of church a week or so.

You did a mission?

I did not.

So I guess not the whole nine yards.

Okay,

eight yards, yeah.

But we met when we were in school, dated for a couple of years, decided we wanted to get married.

We were both really excited.

And we scheduled our wedding for the end of the summer so that we could live together when the semester started and then we could do a little honeymoon.

And we structured our wedding day so that it was the temple in the morning at like 9 a.m.

so that we could get the the most amount of pictures outside because it was hot.

And then we had a brunch with friends and family.

And then we had like a three or four hour block and then our reception later in the day.

Before the wedding, we had rented an Airbnb for the day of, so that we could kind of hang out during that three or four hour block.

And then after the fact, we could sleep there.

And then honeymoon was the next day.

So the day of the wedding, I roll out of bed probably 8:15, 8:30, and I can get there on time.

Wife's awake at 5 a.m.

doing her hair and makeup with her friends, and she's having a good time.

No problems.

You Latter-day Saints are an industrious bunch.

Like waking up at 5 a.m.

to get the hair and makeup done.

That's wedding standard.

Is that wedding standard?

I think that's wedding.

Okay, that's too early.

I mean, it was at 9 a.m.

Yeah, it's at 9.

It's only four hours.

That's early.

And all the bridesmaids have to get their makeup and hair.

It's a whole thing.

Okay.

Start of everything goes pretty well.

Temple goes well.

Pictures goes well.

No issues there.

Brunch is fine.

And after brunch, like I said, we have our three or four hour little block.

So we decide we're going to go hang out at the Airbnb for a little bit.

And you were virgins.

Yes.

Oh, my God.

So I know exactly what I'm doing the second I leave temple.

We kind of talked about it the day before.

We said, oh, should we bang right here in this couple hour block?

Yeah.

And she was like, we've waited so long.

Let's just wait till later.

And I'm like, no problem.

But we get.

to the Airbnb.

We're hanging out.

We both change into like some sweats.

And as we're changing, we kind of like open the suitcase and we both kind of make eye contact and then we see the condoms in the suitcase she says should we just do it and i said yes of course yes we should have done it a long time ago i would have said anything

of course

things start progressing and she says yeah we can do it just make sure my hair and makeup make sure nothing gets messed up and i said yeah of course 100 definitely yeah i'm so good at this i definitely know how to do this without doing that exactly what i'm doing i'm not gonna come in five seconds but anyways, let's go.

That's right.

Things start happening.

First base, second base, third base.

I don't even hardly last to second or third base, but we're there.

And then it's time for the main event.

And I'm like, okay, great.

Put a condom on.

Takes me a second.

I've never done this before.

Put some lube on, put some lube on her.

We're like, okay, you ready?

She's ready.

We probably spend two to three minutes just trying to find the right angle that doesn't hurt the angle of approach, as we say in off-roading.

Bless her heart.

I'm sure it still hurt.

And looking back on it, it definitely did not feel how it feels today.

Well, these are the first time experiences.

This is what happens.

Neither of us knew any different.

So we were having a great time.

You ended up in her butt.

Is that what we're saying?

No.

Oh, I misinterpreted that.

It hurts.

Oh, okay.

Okay.

I just, I heard a lot of lube and I didn't know the angle.

I got a little confused.

I'm so sorry.

We're in the right hole.

Okay, great.

And things start moving.

And 20 to 25 seconds later, I'm approaching the finish line.

By the way, real quick, she's also glad it's that fast.

The first time it hurts, you just like want it to be done.

A couple of thoughts run through my head.

I think, okay, I shouldn't finish inside.

She's not on birth control.

So I don't know if the condom's going to break.

So I think, okay, that's out.

So I think, okay, I'll pull out.

and I'll finish on her stomach.

Yeah, wonderful.

It's romantic.

Yeah.

The thought of pulling out and finishing in the condom didn't even cross my brain.

Right, right.

I pull out, I whip off the condom, and again, there's no communication with her at all.

I blast off.

When I say blast off, the amount that came out, I have never seen before or since.

Yeah, this is 23 years in the making.

It was absurd, but the first blast hits the headboard probably a foot above her head.

This is a real Spider-Man situation.

I'm like, okay, let's point it down a little bit.

Second blast hits her directly in the face.

In the eyes, nose, mouth, hair.

The third blast hits her in the neck, in the hair.

Fourth blast somehow was stronger, hits her again in the face.

And then all the subsequent blasts hit her in like the stomach.

Why are there so many blasts?

It's 23 years.

Yeah.

Yeah, you're right.

And then in this 10-second span, a lot of things happen.

I get like super dizzy.

Oh.

And I lose hearing in my left ear, just the left.

And my wife, like I said, hit her in the face, mouth, nose.

Some of it got in her mouth and she can't really breathe.

So she immediately starts gagging and retching.

And I'm still out of it.

She immediately starts throwing up on the bed.

Oh, fuck.

And she's like stumbling around because some is in her eyes.

She's trying to make it to the bathroom.

She throws up on the bed in the hallway on the floor of the bathroom and finally makes it to the toilet.

Were you guys like, this is why they told us not to do it?

They're like, yeah, sex is horrible.

And we knew it was going to be bad.

We didn't think it was going to be that bad.

But when I come to, I kind of go in the bathroom and I try to console her.

She's like.

crying, laughing, throwing up.

I'm confused because I was out of it.

I try to help her clean up as best as we can.

And then we both kind of freak out because some of it like dripped down and got her in the lady area.

Yeah.

The lady area.

So we're freaking out and we're like, oh no, is she going to get pregnant?

So we DoorDash like a plan B

and she takes that and spends the next three hours trying to fix her hair and makeup.

It was a tough scene.

No.

Okay.

So later that night, you want to do it again, and I bet.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But she doesn't.

I don't think we did.

I don't really remember.

But what did happen after we got to the reception, she like cleaned everything up and she looked great.

And one of her friends came up behind her and was like, hey, you got something in your hair.

And I was like, oh, shit.

And she had a...

big dried thing of them and in her hair no

something malaria you have some gel in your hair honey yeah that's a classic really the icing on the cake was that the plan b made her sick for like three days of our honeymoon.

She was in a bad spot.

But that's actually where we started listening to Armchair Anonymous.

Oh, no kidding.

Wow, it really worked out for us, I guess.

There you go.

How long ago was this?

Three years.

I imagine you guys have had lots of beautiful lovemaking now.

Yeah, took us a second.

We got it.

Throwing up.

It was a set piece and a comedy.

I could have made five minutes out of that whole sequence easily.

Great.

I love it.

The victim's here.

Can she come and say hi?

i'd love to see this poor gale this is so cool there's the victim

we had a marital smaf who would tell this story better i said i would tell it better because i was the victim but he said no i'll tell it better give me the first person view but then he ended up submitting the story so he got to tell

it oh well he did a great job and he was specific about the amount of sprays and that was all really important detail lack of communication

yeah

You must have been thinking, this is terrible, right?

Why do people do this?

At first, I was like, it's got to get better, though, right?

We started at rock bottom.

You can't go much lower.

I was mostly just worried about the rest of the wedding day.

I was crying.

I was like, it's my wedding day.

And all my hair and makeup is messed up.

Like, this is the worst.

We should have just waited until after all the wedding festivities.

Don't you think, though, a lot of the people at the wedding, they've been in your position, they've done this exact same thing.

We got some side eye as we were leaving the the brunch.

We were like, no, no, no, no, no, no.

And then we showed up and everybody kind of

could feel it.

They know.

They know.

There's something like, as disgusting as the story is, it's so wholesome.

It's sweet.

Isn't it?

It's like

mixed messages.

It's like so endearing, yet it's disgusting.

That is nasty.

Yeah, I don't know that I've ever seen even in pornography that volume and duration.

Well, it's lovely meeting you guys.

You're an adorable couple.

We're big fans.

Oh, thank you.

All right.

We'll take care of you too.

You too.

Oh, that was good.

Wow, that was good.

That was really good.

That was a blast.

Pun intended.

That was a pun intended.

I intended that pun.

I didn't really.

Oh, my God.

That is

humanity.

Yeah.

It's tough.

That story shouldn't have made me horny, but it kind of did.

It did.

Yeah, a little bit.

I think the excitement of he saw her naked for the first time.

She saw him naked for the first time.

They had put eating that off.

That must have been so exciting.

That's funny because that didn't even make me feel like it.

It made you want to never be in that situation.

No, well, it made me not want to have uncontrollable semen just because

it's like buckets and you don't know where it's going or coming.

That's fine.

I wouldn't enjoy that either.

I probably put myself in his shoes more than hers.

But it does, like, oh, the like anxiety before the first time.

It's really cute.

They're so cute.

They were very cute.

All right.

Love you.

Do you want to sing a tune or something?

We know a theme song.

Oh.

Okay, great.

We don't have a

song for this new show.

So here I go, go, go.

We're going to ask some random questions.

And with the help of Arm Cherry's, we'll get some suggestions

on the flyer rhyme dish.

On the flyer rhyme dish.

Enjoy.

Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad-free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondry.com/slash survey.