Anthony Hopkins

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Speaker 1 Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Shepard and I'm joined by Mrs.
Padman. Hello.
Today we have a nighttime. I'm on guard.
Draw your sword, matey. Sir.

Speaker 1 Sir Antony Hopkins.

Speaker 2 Yeah, legend.

Speaker 1 Anthony Hopkins, Academy Award-winning actor, The Silence of the Lambs.

Speaker 1 Hannibal, the father, meet Joe Black, Fracture. And he has a new memoir out.
Trickiest word in the biz. You did a great job.
Thank you. Ding, ding, ding.
His book is called, We Did Okay, Kid.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 And I mean, again, what a surreal joy to sit down with Sir Anthony Hopkins. And mostly his memory, and we've met a lot of good memories.
This one is like off the charts. Needs to be studied, perhaps.

Speaker 2 Yes. Dates, people.

Speaker 2 You can see him visualizing. Like he will give details that you're like, what?

Speaker 1 And as you pointed out, like he remembered the names of two little girls he was auditioning against to get into an acting school as a kid that he certainly never saw again. No.
What?

Speaker 2 I know. Really amazing.

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Speaker 1 He's an

Speaker 1 How are you, sir? Great to meet you, Dash.

Speaker 2 No, you stay, you stay. Please stay.

Speaker 1 Sing books. What's that? Let them.

Speaker 2 Oh, we just had her on.

Speaker 1 I could sum up for you what let them is in our vernacular. It's acceptance.
That's it. It has a lot of parallels.
Yeah. Don't fight.
Don't fight.

Speaker 1 There's a wonderful quote by someone, Greek philosopher, and he talks about whatever we can do to avoid making people uncomfortable and all the little problems that they love,

Speaker 1 accept them. Yeah.
He said, because when you look in the mirror behind you is death.

Speaker 1 That sums up.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, you know what else? Her thing is let them. So, yeah, they're doing something that you don't approve approve of that is uncomfortable for you.
People, places, and things.

Speaker 1 I'm powerless over people, places, and things. And then let me.
It's let them, then let me.

Speaker 1 And the let me part is the fourth step. It's well, what am I doing in this scenario? Do the program? Yes.
Yes.

Speaker 2 Oh, he's a program.

Speaker 1 That's why I'm so excited to meet you. I have a lot of friends who have heard you speak over the years, and I've never gotten that opportunity.
So I've always felt left out of that.

Speaker 1 And I'm very happy to meet you. Coming home in 50 years.
Wow. Christmas, right after Christmas? December 29th.
Incredible. Congratulations, man.
50 years. 50 years.
Changed my life.

Speaker 1 I knew I was in big trouble. I checked in at an intergroup in Westwood.
In Westwood? Westwood Boulevard. There's a little office up the stairs.

Speaker 1 And I thought, maybe I'm making too much of a deal of this, but I knew I was in big trouble.

Speaker 1 And I was about to turn back, and the voice in my head said, just get there. Do something.

Speaker 1 The voice said, it's all over. Now you can start living in this all beam for a purpose.
Wow.

Speaker 1 I love it. It's powerful.
Can we start with what prompted you to write the memoir? My wife, Stella, encouraged me to do it. And many people, some people over the years,

Speaker 1 have said, why don't you write a book? So I have one of those weird memories that remembers a lot of details. I said, oh, I don't want to write a book.
Who wants to read about an actor?

Speaker 1 I started writing bits and pieces of notes and threw them away. I just thought, oh, this is unnecessary.
And so just do it. That's okay.

Speaker 1 And it suddenly occurred to me a few years ago that my life has been beyond my explanation. I think it was actually Edgar Allan Poe

Speaker 1 who said that if we think about it, our lives have been written by some other author. Because when I look at my life, I think, how.

Speaker 1 You couldn't have written it.

Speaker 1 Right? Yeah.

Speaker 1 The reason I ask why you write it is I think the book will be a bit of a shock for people, as it was for me. Did you enjoy the book? Yes, immensely.
And

Speaker 1 so opposite of the fantasy I would have filled in for you of your backstory and your charmed life. And I think anytime someone

Speaker 1 with a voice people listen to acknowledge how challenging it's been, I think it's very helpful. As you and I would know very well, I don't learn from people's successes.

Speaker 1 I kind of learn from people's failures and I learn from mine. And it's very helpful when I find out people people I admire had a rough start or they had challenges along the way.

Speaker 1 I find that very, I find that more inspiring than you holding a fucking trophy on a stage. I can't really relate to that.
But feeling other your whole life, oh, I relate to that so deeply.

Speaker 1 And I think that would surprise people. I think people would look at you and go, well, this guy's headed as good as one can have it.

Speaker 1 And he must always feel loved and must always feel celebrated and connected. But that wasn't the story, was it?

Speaker 1 I feel mostly disconnected most of my life but anyways it's all good because there's a part in the book where i'd had enough of the game i was playing the role of being stupid being a dummy at school and all that god bless my mother and father they worked really hard to do something for me and i felt sorry when my school report arrived i was 17.

Speaker 1 my school report arrived on easter 1955 and the dreaded moment they opened the school report Beautiful summery evening,

Speaker 1 spring, late afternoon. We were going off to the cinema.
and my father read the port and it said, Anthony is way below the standard of this school.

Speaker 1 My father meant well, he didn't mean any harm, but he said, I know what's going to happen to you. It's hopeless.
I mean, what's the matter with you? Do you care? I remember it was so clear.

Speaker 1 It was like I took a step back.

Speaker 1 And I said, one day I'll show you. I'll show both of you.

Speaker 1 My father said, go, I said, well, I hope you do.

Speaker 1 I'm sure you will. Now, that moment, I think, triggered something deep inside me, which was a power of what have you, subconscious mindset, okay, well fasten your seatbelts.

Speaker 1 What I was going to show them I had no idea.

Speaker 1 But within three months I got a scholarship as an actor. Wow.
Never acted before in my life.

Speaker 1 Except that very evening we were walking up to see the film and we passed the YMCA and then had the Easter player. Something had shifted just slightly.
Everything looked brighter.

Speaker 1 I want to put a fine point on it. You were called a dunce.
You were made fun of endlessly.

Speaker 1 your dad was disappointed quite often, you had been in many different schools, all the schools thought you were terrible, they thought you were dumb.

Speaker 1 And by the way, I can relate, and I had a big chip on my shoulder about it, but you were a real outsider. That's right, yeah, you didn't like sports, couldn't stand it.

Speaker 1 I mean, playing rugby, chasing a ball around the field, or cricket. I mean, amazing, what are they doing here? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 One thing I've learned out of this, I was never never a victim in fact all my debits inside me were the greatest power i could have had because it made me angry and all that i went through years of that yeah but i i look back now i think now i've no room for all that anger yeah but you were a bit of a dichotomy right because you were doing pretty terrible in school underwhelming yet Your father had gotten you this encyclopedia set

Speaker 1 and you had read this thing from beginning to end. So that you had these moments where people would ask you about something and then you could just pontificate, right?

Speaker 1 You had that kind of memory where you could recall and kind of blow their mind. But for whatever reason, you felt more comfortable playing dumb.
Well, I remember the afternoon I'd been to the dentist.

Speaker 1 I was seven,

Speaker 1 just after the war. And there was a bit of a painful operation.
I had a needle and all that. I resented being in that dentist.

Speaker 1 Got back. There was a box outside the house.
My father came home. He was a baker.
He came home. Took the box upstairs, unpacked it.
And there were 10 volumes of this encyclopedia.

Speaker 1 And I was so fascinated, full of pictures and all that.

Speaker 1 It was me, children's encyclopedia, simplified versions of biographies like Beethoven and all kinds of subjects, geography, history, potted history for kids to pick up.

Speaker 1 But I learned from that and I learned... I learned art facts like I knew how tall the Empire State was building was and all useless information.

Speaker 1 Do you remember?

Speaker 1 It's hard to know, right? You're reflecting back and you know what you know today, but then you try to imagine what you knew then.

Speaker 1 Do you think it was a conscious decision as like some kind of protection? I'm just going to play dumb and they're going to leave me alone and I can isolate and be by myself, which is what I want.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Was it conscious? Oh, yes.
It was.

Speaker 1 It was protective because... I had a very bright cousin, Bobby.
He's dead now, but Bob was one of the brilliant kids in school. Brilliant.

Speaker 1 And I was in school with kids who are way ahead of me. I just felt like a dodo.

Speaker 1 And I was told I was a dodo. I was told I was hopeless, you know.
Yeah, they said pretty cruel things to you. I mean, I recognize this is in 1936 and seven and eight.

Speaker 1 But still, by today's standards, I'm reading some of the things that were told to you, and it's pretty hurtful. Yeah, but life is tough.
Tougher then, yeah? Oh, it's tough for everyone.

Speaker 1 I mean, you're just coming down the street to the homeless people. And you see kids struggling.
You Kids are bullies, kids are vicious. And that's a form of defense because life is rough for everyone.

Speaker 1 I've gone past that stage of being resentful or angry about it. But I looked around and life was tough and is tough today, this very moment.
What do you think growing up?

Speaker 1 You were in Wales for seven years of World War II before it ended.

Speaker 1 How did that affect you and the people around you? I was fascinated by it. You were.
Because I remember the bombings and we would go down into the garden shelter. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I think the local dock was bombed because there's a harbor town. Swansea was just down the road.
That was bombed flat. And I remember these sort of strange excitement.
It was exciting.

Speaker 1 The sirens would go off and you'd hear them overhead as though it's Liverpool tonight.

Speaker 1 And they'd bomb Liverpool. And you look at all the hardship of warfare, terrible losses, appalling losses of life.

Speaker 1 And then towards the end of the war in 1944, we had two American soldiers who came to visit us. And they were stationed there, Captain Dern and Lieutenant Cooney.

Speaker 1 And I remember they brought back cookies and chewing gum and all that. And the Americans, they were all over South Wales waiting for the big day.
They didn't know what it was, but it was D-Day.

Speaker 1 Then they came to the house to say goodbye. We got in the Jeep.
We stood on the corner of the gate and we waved and at the top of the street they turned and boom.

Speaker 1 We were both killed in the Ardennes Forest.

Speaker 1 It was the Battle of the Bulge, the General von Rundstedt. My grandfather was in the Battle of the Bulge.
Yeah, thousands of Americans killed. Appalling losses.
And it was a surprise attack.

Speaker 1 Well, without being melodramatic, I'm sure you're resistant to that. But I would have been excited as a little boy.
Bombs are exciting. Airplanes are exciting.
But do you think

Speaker 1 growing up where literally the world was at war

Speaker 1 shaped your worldview in that... oh, this is a dangerous place and who knows what's going to happen? Do you think you had a little insecurity of just about the world you were in?

Speaker 1 I think it came to a point where, as I become an adult, I remember the Cuba crisis. Everyone sort of remembers that.
It was the deadly time. You thought, well, this could be it.

Speaker 1 Khrushchev and Kennedy facing each other. And I remember I was at the Royal Academy and I had a perspective.
I thought, well, it's happened before. And I visited Wales about a week later, I think.

Speaker 1 I started a closer and he said, yeah. He said, but in 1939, he said, we declared war, biggest military machine in Europe.
And he said, and the thousand year.

Speaker 1 The odds were much worse then, I guess. And he said within six years, the guy had blown his brains out in the bunker in Berlin.

Speaker 1 So much for history. Go through crises and crises.
But finally, we come through it or we don't. But there's nothing we can do.
But it's extraordinary. How the human animal is so vile.
Why?

Speaker 1 I mean, to build bombs, to bomb each other? Why do we do it? Who knows? It's crazy. We can't stop.

Speaker 1 I have a strange theory that's probably a useless theory, but maybe some hundred thousand years ago, the Homo sapiens suddenly may have realized that we're pretty savage, therefore we must destroy ourselves

Speaker 1 for the good of the planet.

Speaker 1 But maybe at some deep level, you played Hitler in Bunker, and it was a confusing performance for people.

Speaker 1 Some of the reviews I read were people were like, he's so good that unfortunately you do see the logic a bit in him. That's right.
And two questions about that.

Speaker 1 One is: well, first of all, have you read the book Blitzed by Chance? No. Okay, it's great.

Speaker 1 I read it four years ago and it details Hitler's drug use, which is incredibly well documented because his doctor that was with him at all times. Dr.
Moreau

Speaker 1 was writing down meticulous notes of everything he gave him. And towards the last few years, he was on speedballs all day long.
He was on methamphetamine and oxycodone direct intervene.

Speaker 1 You map his addiction. The walls of the bunker get thicker.
It's addiction. One of the American producers then said, Tony said, great, we saw the data.
So fantastic. Could you make him less likable?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Can you make him less human? I said, he was human. Which is hard.
I said, he was human. So go figure.

Speaker 2 And that's actually scarier. It's scarier that they're human and they're not just evil.

Speaker 1 I think it's hard. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, exactly. And that scares us because what are we capable of?

Speaker 1 For goodness knows what reason. So you had a very challenging start, but then you also have these little glimpses of pretty good fortune, right?

Speaker 1 And you mentioned one of them, which is you're at the YMCA. You wander to this room.
You find out they're putting on this play, the Christmas Angels. Easter.
Easter.

Speaker 1 The director says, just basically, would you like to do a line in this? My father said to a neighbor, a friend of his, God's taken to the YMCA. Get him out of the, he's always on his own.

Speaker 1 Get some friends. I've played the piano all day.

Speaker 1 And I went to the YMCA. I remember it all clearly.
And I went into this room and the kids playing table tennis. And I thought, God, I don't want to be part of any of this.

Speaker 1 And so I wandered down the stairs and up this hall and heard some voices through double doors. There's a stage.

Speaker 1 And I crept in, and this man turned at me. He said, What do you want? I was, can I watch? He said, Yes, be quiet.
He was very authoritative. He said,

Speaker 1 What's your name? I said, Anthony Hopkins. You're Dick Hopkins by the Baker.
I I said, yeah. Oh, I said,

Speaker 1 would you like to have a part in this? And they gave me a part of a saint. But I had one line.
Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.

Speaker 1 It's a good line. I thought, well, I like the feeling of being on stage, but I didn't take it seriously.
But being hopeless at school, I thought, well, maybe this is a chance because my parents...

Speaker 1 They came every show, though. This is what's very sweet about them.
Three nights. And my father said, well, you never know.
Maybe Hollywood next.

Speaker 1 And he was 17, he was was making a joke but you did good that was maybe the first i mean you were good at playing piano and stuff but that was the first time maybe you had some real acceptance of having put yourself out there and it went as good as it could go it was very encouraging yeah looking back and have a laugh about it all yeah and then the other crazy thing that happens to you is you know a girl who's dating richard burton oh bernice heavens yes This is so random, right?

Speaker 1 I mean, not random in that he's also Welsh, but how do you meet Richard Burton? Bernice was about 18, she's much older than me, but she'd been to the Slade Art School.

Speaker 1 And she lived up the bottom end of the house, just over the garden wall, with her parents. And my mother took a liking to her.
She's a nice young girl. I was on the floor sketching.

Speaker 1 And she said, I can give him some lessons. And she did a sketch of me, which is in the book.
And so one night she's like, I can only give you half an hour.

Speaker 1 And I'd been painting a pirate on poster paint. She said, my boyfriend's taking me to the cinema to see Odd Man Out with James Mason.
I sat there.

Speaker 1 And I heard the doorbell ring and she'd come up and he came up the stairs and he came into the room. She said, this is Richard.
He's an actor. He's Richard Burton.
Wow.

Speaker 1 He looks, he said, well, I like the boots on the bed.

Speaker 1 Little did I know that many years later, I'd meet him again at the same dressing room in New York that I'd occupied in Equus.

Speaker 1 And he'd taken over from Anthony Perkins, took over from me when I left in 1974, 75.

Speaker 1 And then Burton took over from Tony Perkins. So I was in New York, early 76, doing publicity for a film.
So I asked the stage director, I said, can I come and see him? He said, yeah.

Speaker 1 So I went up the stairs and in the same dressing room was Richard Burton. And we shook hands.
And they said, well, he said, why haven't we worked together? He said, we must do it one day.

Speaker 1 And thank you very much. And walked down the stairs.
Coming in to see his performance that night through the stage door, because the crowd's outside, was Elizabeth Taylor. Oh, no, canny.

Speaker 1 She was looking a bit wobbly.

Speaker 1 She did that well. She was a wonderful actress.
Yeah, yeah. I just recently watched for the first time who's afraid of Virginia Williams.
I cannot believe how funny she is in it. Both of them, but

Speaker 1 they're incredible. And then I read the book about the director, how he managed those two at that time.
Mike Nichols. Yes, Mike Nichols.
I asked him, he said, I didn't direct it at all.

Speaker 1 He said they were George and Martha.

Speaker 1 I think it was Mike's first job. First film, right? Yeah, he did the graduate after.
Yeah. But he said they were magnificent.
Yeah. Because they were.
George Marshall.

Speaker 1 My favorite line is at the end when they all get up and leave and they've had their fight. And this one moment digs deep into me when Sandy Dennis and George Siegel have gone.
And she's devastated.

Speaker 1 It's Sunday tomorrow all day.

Speaker 1 Oh, God.

Speaker 1 The depression. Yeah.
The horrifying emptiness of their lives. Who's afraid of Virginia Wall? Yeah.

Speaker 1 So based, though, on this little experience you had at the YMCA, it kind of opens up potentially a new path. And you said also meeting Richard when he left, you were like, okay, I want to be him.

Speaker 1 Yeah. How about the Royal Welsh College of Music and Drama? How do you then get into there?

Speaker 1 They cut out an advert in the local Welsh paper, a scholarship auditions for Cardiff College of Music and Drama. My mother

Speaker 1 sent out an application for me.

Speaker 1 So I've been at the YMCA playing now, blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth. So I learned a bit of Shakespeare, the Othello speech.
And I went up to Cardiff, went into the audition.

Speaker 1 Edwards in the castle. That's where the college was.

Speaker 1 And I went to, I met this man called Raymond Edwards. He said, what are you going to do? I said, Shakespeare, Othello.
All right, go ahead. And I did that scene.

Speaker 1 And I was hamming it up, you know, he said, very good. Well, he says, I'll let you know.
You've got your address.

Speaker 1 So two weeks later, I got a an information in the mail that I was on the shortlist of three people. Two girls and a boy, yeah.

Speaker 1 And I went up to Cardiff with my father to the city hall to final interview. And I went in this big grand room with a table with some head cases of Dr.
Heinz, who's the principal.

Speaker 1 Raymond Edwards was the head of the drama. And they asked me some questions.
One question they asked me, which I thought, well, that's it. She said, you didn't have very good school reports.
No.

Speaker 1 Oh, well, all right. I thought, well, that's it.
Curtains. Went outside.
These two young girls out there, Anne Holmes and and Sandra Sheffield. And Raymond came out.

Speaker 1 He said, well, the scholarship goes to the mail. I thought, well, it's in the post, in the mail.
Here's this wheel.

Speaker 1 He's locked into this being. He's a dunce.

Speaker 1 You can't see outside. It's in the mail.
My father's, no, the mail. You're the mail.

Speaker 1 Oh.

Speaker 1 He said, yes, it's in the mail. You've got the scholarship.
Oh, I have. That's right.
Yes. Yes, son.
You are going to this school now. And you were in the paper for it.
So it's a real turnaround.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 yeah it was started the night in western mail my parents had been to the pub they came back and my father said look at this you're famous and in the western mail it said anthony hopkins son of baker received this prince little scholarship my mother says now one of us you look at this here it's sad isn't it james dean was killed no same day on the friday night 70 years ago wow what kind of joy did you allow yourself to experience in that did it feel good to have your dad get to read about you in the paper after how pessimistic you were?

Speaker 1 There was some hope for me. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 But then I went to the army. And after that two years, what you called the draft over here, called national service.
Did two years and then came out in 1960.

Speaker 1 You were Gunnar Hopkins, the Royal Artillery. What was that experience like? Did it feel like school again, or did you feel more capable there? Well, I became a clerk.
God knows how. Okay.

Speaker 1 And I was useless to that too. Okay.

Speaker 1 I mean, you really hardly made it. I mean, I don't know.
I just fell on my feet. I was like a cat with nine lives.

Speaker 1 And yet I survived, I think, because I isolated in a way, because

Speaker 1 don't let them get you. It's called Dilkar Burundum.
Don't let the bastards get you down. Yeah, yeah.
And that's how I played my whole life.

Speaker 1 Did you feel lonely or did it not bother you to be so isolated? No, I didn't feel lonely. I just felt uniquely myself.
I didn't need anyone. I never wanted to be part of anything.

Speaker 1 No, I'm going to fast forward 55 years. In 2014, you were diagnosed with Asperger's.

Speaker 1 teller my wife has convinced typhus but I don't know what I believe because so many labels are ADDH I don't know the hell they're talking about I was only wondering just being human you know you heard that though and went back and went like oh that's why I didn't mind being alone I don't even know what it is I just feel like everyone else confused as we all are We're all sitting everything, we've got answers, got labels for everything, dyslexia, whatever.

Speaker 1 I don't know. Yeah, yeah.
Just human. But I'm comforted by the fact that you weren't feeling lonely and isolated.
You were fine. Yeah, exactly.
I never felt like a a victim.

Speaker 1 And I've got that attitude today. Get on with it.
Stop complaining. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I like it.

Speaker 1 Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert.

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Speaker 1 So in 1963, you go to the Royal Academy of Dramatic Arts in London. Now, this is serious.
This is big leagues.

Speaker 1 If you're going to go to school and you're on that side of the world, that's the spot, yeah? Yeah, I did an audition. And I walked on stage and rather gravelly voice said, what are you going to do?

Speaker 1 And I said,

Speaker 1 Yago from Bartholomew.

Speaker 1 So I did the scene and I had an uncanny understanding of what Yago was. And I finished the scene scene and the last line was, I shall make a net that shall enmesh them all.
So I said, thank you.

Speaker 1 And I was about to walk offstage. This woman's voice, hold on, where are you going? I said, I finished now.

Speaker 1 Well, can we talk a moment?

Speaker 1 I'd rather not.

Speaker 1 And then out to this gravelly voice, came to the, hello, my name is John Ferrant. I'm from Supervisor.
Very good. Very, very good.
Yes. Never seen it played that way, but it's wonderful.

Speaker 1 I said, oh, thank you. And two weeks later, I got messages I was in.
John, September 1961. When does Laurence Olivier first see you act? Is it while you're a student there? No, no.

Speaker 1 That was the National Theatre. That was a different story.
After you graduated from the

Speaker 1 I got an invitation to go to the National Theatre to audition. And Olivia was running the National Theatre.
It was then at the Old Vic Theatre. This is 1965.
I went in and there was a man.

Speaker 1 He looked like a bank. president.

Speaker 1 This is Laurence Olivier. So I did the audition.
He said, good. He said, well, well done.
About a a week later, I got a call to join the National Dead in his production of Othello.

Speaker 1 I had to run on and say the Ottoman's reverend and gracious, due course, steering towards the Isle of Rhodes. So I went on and spoke Iago's lunch instead.
Oh, oops.

Speaker 1 And somebody changed.

Speaker 1 And I thought, that's it, I'm fine.

Speaker 1 And I knocked at his door to apologise. And somebody said, Sir Lawrence was very annoyed.

Speaker 1 He was taking his makeup off. I said, I'm sorry about that.
Oh, you went on and spoke to Yago. He said, I thought we were going to start the whole bloody play all over again.

Speaker 1 He said, by the way, that speech, the messenger speech, let me do it. You must really hit it hard.
I said, oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Like that? Yes,

Speaker 1 to counteract the sleeping ghost that was in me that I was incompetent and I was going to be a victim. I thought no one will ever touch me if I learn the entire role before we even start.
I learn it.

Speaker 1 And it paid because nobody could touch me. I mean, you could have some sadistic director, and if they did, I would warn them.
I'd get up and walk out because I wouldn't put up with it. Being bullied.

Speaker 1 I'm always a bit paranoid and a little nuts. And I would walk away.
I said, where are you going? To hell with you. Anyway, so that's what happened.

Speaker 1 Then he gave me a part in his production of The Three Sisters by Chekhov. Well, you understudied him.
I understood him and dance to death.

Speaker 1 And he said, A new young actor in the company of exceptional promise named Anthony Hopkins was understudying me and walked away with the part of Edgar like a cat with a mouse between its teeth.

Speaker 1 That's pretty great.

Speaker 1 I was told that night that I was going on stage and I thought, my God, couldn't believe it. But for goodness, no, probably fear.

Speaker 1 I just got through it and probably overacted. But anyway, the audience gave me a big evasion and I got a call from him next morning.
He'd snuck out of hospital. He'd put an overcoat on something.

Speaker 1 And he said, I saw you last night. You did? Yeah, he said, you're very good.
Well done. He was very soft-spoken.
He said, do you have any problems or any fears?

Speaker 1 I said, no, but I went through two shirts. You have a sweat.
That's called tension. I said, how long does it take to get rid of that? About 20 years.
20 years.

Speaker 2 Do you agree now?

Speaker 1 He said another thing to you. Maybe it's apocryphal, but he also said to you, nerves is vanity.
You're worried about what the audience will think. Yeah.
I think that's incredible advice to hear.

Speaker 1 You don't have time to be nervous. Get on there and do it.
And he said, you know, you may make a mistake. Who cares? It's not important.
It is important, but it's not important.

Speaker 1 Get on there, do it. And if it fails, it fails and so on.
Who cares? Yeah, that takes a while to learn, though, don't you think?

Speaker 1 Well, vanity, ego, you know, when you're young, you think everyone's talking about you. Nobody cares.
Right, right. No, no, they don't.

Speaker 1 When you look back, have there been some performances where you're like, I should hit the bet on that one. That was not good.
Oh, yeah, I've done films and things like that.

Speaker 1 But you thought you personally didn't rise to that challenge. Oh, yeah.
It may sound weird, blasphemous, but it's only acting.

Speaker 1 I think you have to get there for your survival or you can't do it for a long time. Stupid example, but I got asked to come honor my rheumatologist, right?

Speaker 1 And in the audience is, I don't know, there's a few hundred people and they're much older than me. And I make a couple of jokes and they do not like them.

Speaker 1 They don't either get them or they just didn't like them. And I was riding home on my motorcycle.
I was like, yeah, you didn't do well.

Speaker 1 You'll live and you'll go to somewhere else and you you might be fine the next time but i had to learn to just be able to let that you go

Speaker 1 finally no big giving a damn anyway yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah but it's important to hear you say that as the best that's ever done it because so many people do sit with oh i need to do better i need to do better or i'm not good enough so to hear you say it i think is helpful i do at the same time as a dichotomy i do try to be cautious about what i say because people have different values and for some people things are very important i know some people find their job acting important i do it fine I don't want to bring on their parade.

Speaker 1 Sure. So what I say is the degree of caution.
I'm dispassionate about it, but I don't want to offend anyone because there's a lot of pain in the world. But what I say is finally maybe approaching 88.

Speaker 1 I have no idea how much longer I've got, but I just think I'll don't take it all so seriously.

Speaker 1 And when I was working 60 years ago almost with Peter O'Toole and Catherine Happen, I was taken aback when they were knocking my door in the theatre and it was Peter O'Toole said, I want you to do an audition of film test.

Speaker 1 So, anyway, I ended up in Ireland doing interior scenes with Catherine Eppon and O'Toole. I was thinking, I thought, am I dreaming? Yeah,

Speaker 1 she was great to work with. She knew everyone on the crew.
She was that old-style Hollywood actress. My God, how am I lucky?

Speaker 1 You're getting a suntan in the middle of January and from our beats working for a living.

Speaker 1 And I said, Yeah, she says, Yeah, I always remember this moment.

Speaker 1 Beats working. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
This is the line in winner.

Speaker 1 She said this is exactly the same thing that Olivia said. This is very important, and at the same time, it's not important at all.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 You were nominated for a BAFTA for that, which is your first movie. Did it shock you, or did you feel like, okay, this makes sense?

Speaker 1 It surprised me. She's much better actors than me around, much more accomplished.
But for some reason,

Speaker 1 I think it was the burliness. So I was strong.

Speaker 1 I was tough and arrogant and all that stuff, I guess. But I was sure of myself inside.
A very big movie that came next was Young Winston.

Speaker 1 And it's the first of five times you and Richard Attenborough collaborated. I'm just curious, what do you think was your guys' unique connection that allowed you guys to keep coming back together?

Speaker 1 I think he saw something in me that was rebellious and I was slightly mad. I've always been that, you know, something that's not to be trusted in a way.
Something that's unpredictable.

Speaker 1 And maybe that's in our nature. Maybe it's in my nature.
I have no idea.

Speaker 1 I'm not a psychotherapist or anything, but I think there's something unpredictable in my very nature, which comes from the past. Not that I'm crazy in any sense.
I don't believe that.

Speaker 1 But maybe that's a sense. And I remember

Speaker 1 thinking something dangerous about you. I remember Jonathan Demi when my agent phoned me one afternoon in 1989.
It was in a play in West End.

Speaker 1 He said, I'm sending a script over called Silence of the Lambs. I said, was it a kid's story? He said, no, no, no.
Anything but play the part of Alexis.

Speaker 1 He says, not a very big part, but it's with Joni Foster. I said, oh, she just won an Oscar.
And he said, yeah. But he's really, I said, yeah.
So I started reading the script and I phoned him.

Speaker 1 I said, this is the best part. He said, it's a very small part.
I said, I know how to play it. He phoned back.
He said, Jonathan Demi is coming to see you tomorrow on Saturday from New York.

Speaker 1 It's an offer. I said, okay, so Jonathan arrived on the Saturday, came backstage, and we went off.
the little round to a local restaurant. I was curious, why me? He said, don't you want to play?

Speaker 1 I said, yes, but why did you choose me? He said, I saw you in the Elephant Man playing Dr. Treves.

Speaker 1 I said, what's that got to do with the lecture? He said, well, there's something in you that I think you can do it. I said, well, okay.
He said, you have any idea?

Speaker 1 I said, I know exactly what I'm going to do. He said, like what? I said, like, how the computer in 2001.
A few months later, I was in Pittsburgh. We'll be filming the cell scene.

Speaker 1 Jonathan was very nice. I met Jodie and...
She was very nice. There's a quote from him that Jodi never spoke to him.
That's not true. We were quite friendly.
There's nothing spooky about it.

Speaker 1 That's publicity crappy.

Speaker 1 But we did the first reading and I knew how to play it. It was the first reading around the table in New York of all places.

Speaker 1 So we finished the script and Kenny Alta, one of the producers, holy Moses, Tony, what is that? I said, I don't know. And Jodi said, you're scary.

Speaker 1 But the scene when she comes down the corridor to meet Lecter. He was a very flexible, easy director.
He said, how do you want Jodie to see you? He said, we'll have a camera.

Speaker 1 It'll be her point of view. Would you be sitting down or lying down or asleep or reading a book or something? He said, No, I'd like to stand.
Stand in the middle of the cell.

Speaker 1 I said, Yeah, I can smell her coming down the corridor.

Speaker 1 He said, Yo,

Speaker 1 we got the right guy for this role. So they did the scene, and the camera and the crew were up there.
As the camera came, I heard John think, Holy Moses.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I said, Good morning, you're not real FBI, how are you? All the way to the FBI.

Speaker 1 Is it the most fun you've ever had playing a character? Oh, it's wonderful. You know what you look like to me with your good bag and your cheap shoes.
You look like a robe.

Speaker 1 Well, scrubbed hustling rube with little taste.

Speaker 1 He knows how to needle that. Yeah.
And all her vulnerability. But it's the right mix of charming, too.
Terrifying devil. I've met a couple of people like that who are vicious and cruel.
Subtle.

Speaker 1 Horrible. Interesting as well.
All the way to the FBI.

Speaker 2 When you're in character like that, when you come out of it, are you like, wow, I really went somewhere. You're not.

Speaker 1 You learn your land shop, hit the marks. Hope the catering is good.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 You're honest about being sober or no? You don't like talking about being sober? It can be pretty boring. I was drunk.
I drank a lot. What was it like?

Speaker 1 It was fun, you know, but booze works very quickly and it changes your relationship to space around you. It relaxes everything and it's a false courage.
And drinking is a very common thing.

Speaker 1 It's dionysian, I suppose. But I remember being insecure and all that stuff, go and have a couple of jars and a couple of drinks and things suddenly look relaxed and you think, oh, this is good.

Speaker 1 And it is. And you're going to have some fun, whether you're a lone drinker or a public drinker, you go and have some fun and you know, all actors drink because we're rebels.

Speaker 1 But finally, I was just lucky to have enough brain cells left to say, you're going to die. Yeah.
Yeah. Because I was doing stupid things like driving my car and doing dumb things.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we do dumb stuff when we're drunk. It's part of the fun.
I get into fights with people. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
A change of personalities to kind of induce schizophrenia.

Speaker 1 But what I'm curious about is once you got sober and you started, I'm assuming this happened to me, is I'm kind of learning why I am the way I am to some degree, right?

Speaker 1 If I'm working these steps and I do the fourth step and all of a sudden I go, oh, wow, this is illuminating. My whole life is being controlled by like three fears.
That's interesting.

Speaker 1 I now know what I have to work on as a person if I want to be in harmony. Did that exploration start impacting your work in an interesting way?

Speaker 1 What I'm told by an old guy who'd been around for many years, his name is Jack Bailey, and he's a comedian and well-known personality. He took an interest in me and he wore a wonderful sense of humor.

Speaker 1 You're smoking a cigarette. He says, how are you doing, kid? And I said, I'm all right.
Yeah, I'm fine. You happy? I said, yeah, is that okay? Yeah, you dummy.

Speaker 1 That's what he came here for, to be happy. Yeah.
I said, said, how long have you got now? A few months. Good for you.
Don't take the first drink. That's all you have to do.

Speaker 1 He said, another thing, don't listen to the gurus. He said, you know, it's not a mathematical formula, this.
Live your life. Sure, you can do the steps, but live your life, enjoy it.

Speaker 1 Because there were some people, Richard, you know,

Speaker 1 yeah. And he said, avoid them because they're nuts.
He said, they may have to do it their way, but you don't have to fall into their trap. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Because he knew one of the guys was trying to take control of me. He said, no, just walk away.
Enjoy your life. He said, this this is what it was for.
I mean, 50 years is so long.

Speaker 1 It's changed so much. Like my father went to treatment in 87 and it was still shameful.

Speaker 1 Now I have no shame saying I'm an addict. Most people I interview that are addicts have no problem saying it.
It's really changed in the last 50 years, right? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Was it hard participating while being famous? No, don't take that into consideration at all. Okay.
I mean, you know, I go to meetings and

Speaker 1 people recognize me. I'm fine with that.
That doesn't bother me. I'm just a drunk like all the rest of the people

Speaker 1 and accessible and all that and will be helpful. But I will never preach, lay down the law or talk it all the time because it becomes boring for people.
So I'm very easygoing about it.

Speaker 1 Have you had any

Speaker 1 scary situations in the last 50 years? Have you been close at any point in those 50 years of going like, I was so young, what the fuck? No, no. The craving left immediately.

Speaker 1 I'm not that sociable, but we had a bunch of people over, and I was in England recently for dinner or lunch. We've got some wine.
I said, as long as people don't drive, get a car to pick them up.

Speaker 1 If they want to drink, then fine. Yeah, yeah.
But no, no, if you have another drink, I'll leave it. Oh, yeah, yeah.
Overpour their glasses. I'd prefer people drank around me than not to appease me.

Speaker 1 You had a kind of a moment that, as you said, I don't belong anywhere. I'm a loner.

Speaker 1 But in the dresser, when Ian McKellen mckellen said it was wonderful you said we got on so well and i suddenly felt at home as though the lack of belonging was all in my imagination and all in my vanity

Speaker 1 yeah i think this is a very profound moment when is the dresser 2015 we had a ball we had a wonderful time that's what he's got he's got charisma muscle he's powerful he's daring he's courageous And we had a lot of laughs.

Speaker 1 Yeah. It could make you laugh.

Speaker 1 But when you have this realization, and I know you're not one to feel bad for yourself, but when you realize I'm not alone, do you go, oh, why did I spend so much time on this?

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's all paranoousness. I don't know.
Do you have any kind of sadness or regret that it took you that long to realize? You can't regret things like that.

Speaker 1 I think I felt insecure because I was so lucky, really. I was just lucky all the way through my life.
And I think I shouldn't have been so lucky because people have tough times struggling to.

Speaker 1 And I've just been given this good fortune.

Speaker 2 You feel guilty?

Speaker 1 Well, no, not anymore. But I do look back and with curiosity, I think, how extraordinary that this happened to me.
And all these opportunities came to me. So I never complain.

Speaker 1 You know, talking about the acting business and all that. I've known actors who've struggled for years and never quite made it.
And I just don't know what it's about.

Speaker 2 Like why you?

Speaker 1 Yeah, why things happened to me the way they did.

Speaker 1 So I've got no ounce of complaint to me or regret. But working with Ian was great.
Ian, I have one curiosity about your acting, and it's about you being a composer.

Speaker 1 So you were also a very active musician your whole life, and you even paused acting for a while to tour with some of your compositions. For some odd reason, it comes naturally to me.

Speaker 1 Improvise on the piano, and I improvise. And then I got a friend, Stephen Barton, who has a student.

Speaker 1 Where are the Beatles? Abby Rhode. Abby Rhode.
Yeah. Go to the studio then.
He's got sound equipment and all the samples of every instrument there there is. Pure samples, there's real cellos, reals.

Speaker 1 So I pick and choose. Let me start with an oboe or something like that.
Yeah. Cello.
Yeah. The sound that's produced is so accurate.

Speaker 1 Even on a cello, you can hear the grind of a string. They're so perfect.
They're all done by German engineers, I believe. The real samples.

Speaker 1 So you listen to a real cello, but electronically manipulated. I don't know how the hell it works.

Speaker 1 But I'd use that because it's useful. Then it flows.
I mean, I was listening to something. I thought, how the hell did I write that? I don't know.
Right. I don't know.

Speaker 1 I mean, there's one, it's called fanfare. Then it goes into a march.
And I remember the day, working it out, sitting there, keyboard. I said, I want to do this as a fanfare.
Bum bum bum.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Everything. Tombones, trumpets, bum-bum-bum.
And I said, one, put a brass in there and another horn. And then suddenly it turned into a march.
She got the scores ready and Stella.

Speaker 1 who's behind my life, extraordinary. She said, let's talk to a conductor, me, go conductor of the London Philharmonic.
And he came to the studio just to say hello. Lovely man, can I hear something?

Speaker 1 I say, you just did last year. Well, we're in the middle of it now.
Now I went to rehearsals at the London Philharmonic. And I couldn't believe I'm sitting there.
This is impossible. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Are you afraid to even try to figure out how you can do it? Are you superstitious? No, I just know that there's a way of

Speaker 1 doing it. Just let the music come to you.
Which are you more proud of, the acting work or the music stuff?

Speaker 1 Oh, both not one more than the other no but again don't take myself too seriously yeah yeah yeah i'm just lucky yes

Speaker 1 and i paint and i draw and all that you're just artistic yeah stella told me she said she found some old scripts and before we got married some old scripts i'd kept in the cupboard and i doodle you know drawings and she ought to paint and i saw it and i come back she of course you can do it I said, no, she said, you can do anything.

Speaker 1 Go on, just do it. So I got some canvases.

Speaker 1 It's always the sort of little boy from portal but yeah get some canvases and i said i can't be doing with oil paints because it takes too long to dry i said i want to paint fast so i got acrylics

Speaker 1 and suddenly i produced these paintings and i had a show of them and sold them i'm not supposed to say that but i i'm fast i work fast yeah i like to work fast because

Speaker 1 it means that you cut down your choices too many choices you get fat and lazy

Speaker 1 just do it fast if you make a mistake okay go over it yeah

Speaker 1 Who cares? Brush it out. Paint over it.
Write music over it. Whatever.

Speaker 1 Anyone who's listening who has a young son who is seemingly directionless and getting kicked out, I hope this is so hopeful for them that you just don't know what you're doing. You don't know.

Speaker 1 You don't know. Believe in yourself totally.
Yeah. Even though you may think it's a lie, believe in yourself.
Never give in to what other people say you are.

Speaker 1 Never give them the chance to put you down. Because you'll do that yourself anyway.
Put yourself down.

Speaker 1 But don't let other people put you down. You get out there and you do it.
And you may fail. You may run into a wall.
So on. You get up and you do it.
Especially when you're young.

Speaker 1 You've got the guts and the strength to do it. And the stupidity.
Yeah, and the stupidity.

Speaker 1 Be stupid. Yeah, yeah.
Just be loaded. Yeah.
Be bold and mighty forces will come to your aid. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, Mr. Hopkins, we're so flattered that you were willing to come on the show.
Yeah, we've both obviously just loved watching so many wonderful performances.

Speaker 1 Your book is wonderful and it's very, like I said, unexpected, which I think is delightful. Well, I'm really grateful for that.
I'm really grateful that you liked it.

Speaker 2 Yes, we're going to play some of it for our listening audience, too.

Speaker 1 They're going to get a little clip of it. Oh, good.
We'll have audio. Yeah.
Yeah. I had to go old-fashioned and read with my eyeballs.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 But thank you.

Speaker 1 Yes, it's delightful to meet you. And thanks for making the big trip out here.
And I hope everyone checks out the book. It is called Appropriately, We Did Okay, Kid.

Speaker 1 That photograph in the back of the book, that photograph of my father. I was three and a half in Abravan on the beach, because during the war, he didn't go into the army.

Speaker 1 He was lucky, but he had to do some national service.

Speaker 1 He was in the Observer Corps, which is that's the RF, which was plotting aircraft, German, American, British, reporting movements of aircraft, warning the center in Cardiff.

Speaker 1 This is a network of observation. Anybody who serves there, lost little kid, like we all are, feeling hopeless or lost, you know.
And I I look at that and I think, we did okay, kid.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's beautiful. But whatever it is, you know,

Speaker 1 it worked out just fine. Yeah.
Thank you so much. I hope everyone checks out the book and the specialization.
Thank you both.

Speaker 1 Thank you both. Now, before we go to the fact check, we're gonna play an excerpt from We Did Okay, Kid.

Speaker 3 I'm an alcoholic and I need help, I told my agent.

Speaker 3 He got me the time off I needed to focus on getting treatment.

Speaker 3 The tradition I belong to suggests that it's much better to change lives one person at a time by helping them one-on-one rather than by crowing to the world about having found a cure for one's affliction.

Speaker 3 This is known in the rooms as attraction rather than promotion.

Speaker 3 And so I will say only that if you are starting to wake up to the ways in which alcohol is ruining your life, as I did to the ways it was ruining mine, there are people out there who will take you out for coffee.

Speaker 3 You can find them in every city and town at every hour of the day. I still go to meetings now myself, almost fifty years after getting sober.

Speaker 3 The day after my revelation I went out for lunch with my friend Bob Palmer, who brought along his friend George. They were going to take me to my first twelve-step meeting.

Speaker 3 I was in a state of shock, because the urge to drink had gone.

Speaker 3 I saw a waiter carrying a tray with a glass of red wine across the room. How strange that I used to drink that, I thought.

Speaker 3 How are you feeling? Bob asked.

Speaker 3 Inadequate, he said.

Speaker 1 You are.

Speaker 3 That flawed me. He explained that I had so little power.
I was unable to predict what would happen in the next three minutes.

Speaker 1 Therein lay terror, but also freedom if we accepted it.

Speaker 3 At the first AA meeting I attended, I was moved by the speaker's story.

Speaker 1 He's just like me, I thought.

Speaker 3 He was a truck driver, not an actor, but we were the same. I had something in common with everyone in that room.
We were drunks, and we didn't want to drink anymore.

Speaker 3 I thought, they're all misfits like me. Like all of us, we feel we never belong.
We feel self-hatred. All of us are the same.

Speaker 1 I'm not alone.

Speaker 1 Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert,

Speaker 1 if you dare.

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Speaker 1 He is an arm care expert, but he makes mistakes all the time. Thank God Maya's here.
She's got to let him have the facts.

Speaker 2 Do I have a lipstick all over my face?

Speaker 1 No, you don't at all. Okay.
Because you touched it up for him eating dad's oatmeal. I did.
Do you want to tell people about dad's oatmeal? Because this could be the first unbiased review. Yes.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 So you eat the same breakfast every day.

Speaker 1 Yeah, 365.

Speaker 2 And I got to try it today. Uh-huh.

Speaker 1 Before you give the review, what was your

Speaker 1 guess at what it was? It tasted like

Speaker 1 what's this, mom? Oh, I made you something. Let me try it.

Speaker 1 Like that would be the commercial. Yeah, that's the

Speaker 1 commercial. What can we have? Lucky charms.
It's like a lucky charms.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's 100% a cereal commercial.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 2 So I just thought it would be kind of bland because it's healthy.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Right.
Can I do the commercial again? Okay, sure. She'd be the mom.
Give it to me.

Speaker 2 Here, honey. Enjoy your breakfast.

Speaker 1 Okay, I'll try it.

Speaker 1 Tastes good for me.

Speaker 1 I didn't think that'd be a good commercial.

Speaker 1 I want lucky charms.

Speaker 2 With your hand falling out like that. That's a really sad boy.

Speaker 1 Tastes good for me.

Speaker 1 I think you booked it. That was good.

Speaker 2 They are going to ask,

Speaker 2 can you

Speaker 1 shave out your tooth? Shave my beard? Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 Can we age you down a little bit?

Speaker 1 Well, of course, I wouldn't have my tooth in because when I eat, I have to take my tooth out.

Speaker 2 Or it's like lucky charms causes

Speaker 2 your teeth to fall out. Right.
That's allegedly.

Speaker 1 Mom would say, she'd say, well, Han, what happened the last time you ate Lucky Charms?

Speaker 1 Your tooth fell out.

Speaker 2 Anyway, so I thought it was going to be blah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I tried it, and it is really good.

Speaker 2 It's really good.

Speaker 1 I'm glad that you tried it. And it doesn't even look that appealing.
Other than I dressed it up with fresh blueberries. That part probably made it look a little exciting.

Speaker 2 A little bit, but it's, yeah, it's a mush.

Speaker 1 It's a big bowl of mush. And it's a big, big bowl.

Speaker 1 And as I was telling you, this is my big reward.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you said it's time for my reward. And I was like, ooh, what's your reward?

Speaker 1 And then it was the same thing you do every day.

Speaker 2 How many days do you think you've had it? Like, how many months have have you been eating this concoction?

Speaker 1 Over two years.

Speaker 2 This exact one with the

Speaker 1 flat, the flesh, and that works. The fresh blueberries, the fleshy, fresh blueberries.
I got into about probably nine months ago.

Speaker 1 And now that's like my real obsession.

Speaker 1 I put so, I put, they're good. I buy so many blueberries, it's crazy.
Cause I'll eat half of the tray per bowl of porridge.

Speaker 2 Oh, my gosh.

Speaker 2 They have great antioxidants. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 I'm going to argue, like, if

Speaker 1 you could only have one meal to be perfectly healthy.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I think this is it. I'm going to poke a hole.

Speaker 1 Okay, but can I hit you with the macros first?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay, so it has this bowl of oatmeal has upwards of 60 grams of protein.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's a lot.

Speaker 1 It's a big boy's serving of protein.

Speaker 2 Big bowl. Baby like big bowl.

Speaker 1 That's what it is. It has a very good amount of fiber, which is elusive.
Fibers hard to get.

Speaker 2 Fiber is hard. So yes, I like that.

Speaker 1 And then probably more antioxidants than any other friggin' meal you could put together with that amount of blueberries, half a rack. Okay.
Okay.

Speaker 2 Time to poke a hole. And

Speaker 2 wait, what was I? Fiber. Oh.

Speaker 2 Also,

Speaker 2 people have predicted that fiber is the new protein.

Speaker 1 Oh.

Speaker 2 As far as like

Speaker 2 everyone's into fiber and you gotta have it and you gotta get the amount you need to get. So that's that's ahead.

Speaker 1 Okay, right. And by the way, guys, Lane Norton has been saying this for years.
Protein and fiber. You look at all these different studies.
Huge.

Speaker 1 The big thing they all have in common for longevity is like, you gotta have a lot of fiber and you gotta have a lot of protein.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And you gotta have a lot of chocolate.

Speaker 1 You gotta have a lot of wine.

Speaker 2 A lot of artini.

Speaker 1 But you give it, you gave it a passing grade.

Speaker 1 I loved it. Okay, you give it an eight.

Speaker 2 I was shocked because you,

Speaker 2 your concoction is oats, Bob's red milk. Swear by it.
And Justin's honey almond butter.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Uh-huh.

Speaker 2 And I don't remember the brand.

Speaker 2 Strawberry Protein.

Speaker 1 Elaine Norton's strawberry protein. It's because it's isolate, which I need.
For people who are lactose intolerant or get upset stomach from whey, if you get isolate

Speaker 1 or isolate, it's better. There's none of the what I assume there's no lactose in it, which is what I think gives you the upset stomach.
Okay, well, so

Speaker 1 I said I think a lot and I think. So I don't want anyone to say that.
Okay,

Speaker 1 I think and I think.

Speaker 2 And normally I'm pretty turned off. I can be turned off by protein powders because it does give the bad taste.
To me, there's a taste that lingers that I really am not a fan of.

Speaker 2 Like I like it when I'm eating it, but then there's an aftertaste.

Speaker 1 Okay. And can you tell me the brands you've tried?

Speaker 2 Um, I can't remember. Okay.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Because there's a huge difference in the different brands. I will say that.
I've had tons of protein powder. I'm like, ugh, it's chalk.
That's disgusting. Yeah.
But I have two I'm in love with.

Speaker 2 Well, this strawberry one that goes in your

Speaker 2 breakfast is really good.

Speaker 1 Again, it's all counterintuitive. Why would strawberry protein powder work in blueberry oatmeal? Fruits.
I guess.

Speaker 2 Fruit medley.

Speaker 1 I guess. It just doesn't seem like that would be good, but somehow that comes together, especially with the almond butter.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's really nice.

Speaker 1 That's the other big secret sauce in there.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Okay, now my hole that I'm poking.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 I think in order for it to be the healthiest meal on planet Earth,

Speaker 2 I would like a green vegetable in there.

Speaker 1 You don't think the blueberries handles that?

Speaker 2 No, it's

Speaker 2 it's it's good.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I'm glad glad it's there.

Speaker 1 Monty, how are we adding any green vegetables?

Speaker 2 That's my problem. I don't think we can call it that because I don't think you can add any green vegetables to that.

Speaker 1 You could put mint.

Speaker 2 Nope, that doesn't count.

Speaker 1 And well, I mean, it's a good, that's the least terrible option. Mint is an herb, Rob.

Speaker 1 It's green. It's green.
It's a green herb.

Speaker 2 And I'm looking for a green vegetable. I'm looking for spinach.
I know. But it can't go.

Speaker 1 It doesn't. That'll have to be lunch.
Okay. yeah, you gotta work in a spinach in your lunch, that's fine.

Speaker 2 Um,

Speaker 2 maybe, okay, and and you, and you'd really, ideally, you'd want a little omegas in there, so you want some fish. I think you should smash up some fish in there.

Speaker 1 Well, I do my fish oil.

Speaker 1 What's our sponsor? Because that is actually what I use.

Speaker 2 Yeah, Nordic Natural Nordic Natural.

Speaker 1 Yeah, every night before bed, it's three Nordic naturals.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but I'm just saying, um, if you're saying this meal on its own,

Speaker 2 we need a little green vegetable.

Speaker 1 Okay, counter to your counter. Okay.

Speaker 1 You have to propose a different dish that would be better

Speaker 1 because

Speaker 1 I think you might find your way over to a spinach dish that would be great. But then I think it would really drop the ball on a lot of other categories, the fiber and the

Speaker 1 protein and the antioxidants. So I might have the antioxidants.
And I think it's maybe fibrous, but regardless. So, this is like, yeah, there's never going to be a perfect meal.
Right.

Speaker 1 Unless you're just making a smoothie.

Speaker 2 Well, yeah.

Speaker 1 Which I used to do. Yeah.
It's too much of a cleanup.

Speaker 2 That's my issue. Yeah.
It's also too cold for my mouth.

Speaker 1 I think it is ironic that I've been making fun of Wilford Bremley for 40 years now in those oatmeal commercials. And lo and behold, that's my most consistent meal.

Speaker 2 Same as you made fun of Kath at our cowboy and then you had to get one.

Speaker 1 And then I had Kath. Yeah.
And I don't like pain when I calf, just like him.

Speaker 2 Exactly.

Speaker 1 Have we not spoken since Halloween?

Speaker 1 I guess not. Yeah, no fact check.
Wow.

Speaker 1 We have a lot to catch up on. We've got a lot of long for a catch up.
Yeah. For the audience, for the charity.

Speaker 2 I guess the Halloween was, Halloween was Friday and today is Wednesday.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Let's, let's talk about Halloween.

Speaker 2 Okay, but hold on. We can't go on without addressing your tooth.

Speaker 1 Oh, people have to beat it. It would be cool if we didn't address my tooth, but I'm happy to.

Speaker 2 Okay, yeah, there's no way.

Speaker 1 I've been wanting a gold tooth for, I don't know, seven years. I think even when we interviewed Kirby.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Didn't we discuss it? And I'm like, did you know somebody?

Speaker 2 I think we did.

Speaker 1 And then our good friend Eric found for me this dentist that we both go to. Who would have known that this very normal, classy dentist also does gold teeth and shit? Yes.
So I had a grill made.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 That was first. I mean, I should wear that one of these fact checks.

Speaker 1 That one's not very attractive. No, okay.
It's intentionally not. Okay.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Okay.
Because it's for a character I'm going to play.

Speaker 2 Oh,

Speaker 2 thank you.

Speaker 1 Okay. Oh, yeah.
I guess I assumed you knew that somewhere. No, I didn't.
Okay. Okay.
So

Speaker 1 the grill is for a character I'm playing. Gotcha.
That they did not ask for.

Speaker 2 But great. Okay.
Fun.

Speaker 1 And then I, I, and it was, it came at some expense for me to have this thing made. Sure.

Speaker 2 Well, acting is expensive in the heart.

Speaker 1 It takes a toll. You pay a price.
I sent a photo to the showrunner and I was like, look, use them. Don't use them.
I don't care. I did have these made.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And God bless, he said, use them for sure. Great.
Yes.

Speaker 2 Oh, fun.

Speaker 1 And I, uh, I don't think that's a topic I can tackle. I'm, well, I'll tackle it.
I am having, again, and I think it's, it, it, it,

Speaker 1 in the effort of being honest or in the pursuit of honesty, I don't need to make money for the acting. Right.
So I said to them, I don't just pay me the minimum. Out.
Please pay me minimum.

Speaker 1 Give it to another actor you want to hire for the budget, right?

Speaker 1 It's not even that nice of me, but I, but for me, it was so that's a huge growth. It was an emotional thing where it's like, I used to be so panicked all the time.

Speaker 1 Like, please, you got to pay me the most because I probably never work again. That whole thing.
And this is like, I just want to come play and you guys don't have to pay me.

Speaker 1 I know legally you have to, but whatever the minimum of that is.

Speaker 2 Wow. That's huge.
That's really awesome.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it feels great. And actually, it's how I should have been started acting.

Speaker 2 But you can't, though. But also,

Speaker 2 yeah, money.

Speaker 2 We all have to, we need it. Yeah, yeah.
We need it. And so you are lucky enough to not.

Speaker 1 I don't need it now. Yeah.
And now I can act

Speaker 1 solely

Speaker 1 to go play with people I think would be fun to play with. And it's, I love it.
That was great.

Speaker 2 Okay. Now the tooth.

Speaker 1 Okay, the tooth so then the tooth i just always wanted so the tooth is for me

Speaker 2 okay so it has nothing to do with the jobs or

Speaker 2 no no and how do you feel with the tooth in

Speaker 1 how do you feel i'm largely unaware of it other than i like to play with the backing with my um my tongue yesterday was day one with it i went to the movies and i and uh you got to take it out to eat but i was like man get away with some popcorn oh god because i can throw it past the gold tooth and just get it on the

Speaker 1 molars. Oh my God.
So I did, I did mess around with some popcorn with it still in. Okay.
And then I went to, now this is a big thing I learned yesterday.

Speaker 1 I went out to lunch with a friend and I took it out. And I'm like, I have nowhere to put it.
So I put it in the tiny little pocket in my jeans so I won't lose it there.

Speaker 1 And then when the meal was over and I wanted to put my tooth back in, the back side, it was like, it's like the back of earrings, the back. Oh, so it was like, it had poked through the denim,

Speaker 1 and I could not get it out. It was like embedded in my

Speaker 2 post, yeah.

Speaker 1 On the back side, there's two, like, um, uh, what do they call them, vampire clips, like you'd have on a mic

Speaker 1 to snap into your tooth.

Speaker 1 And so, not only did those puncture the denim and were caught in there, like I was like trying to get a fishing hook out of my pocket, and and then they it was all miscalibrated.

Speaker 1 Oh, I had bent up the fucking day one.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So then I recalibrated them.
And then a lot of the movie, I was like, hmm, I didn't do that right. This feels really tight, like a orthodontia reminder.

Speaker 2 Now,

Speaker 2 is it, um,

Speaker 2 did they do anything to your actual tooth?

Speaker 1 Oh, no. Okay.
Okay. Well, they took a mold, which is how they make it.
Right.

Speaker 2 But then they didn't like have to like shave anything down or anything, right?

Speaker 1 Oh, man. You're really getting all the secrets out of me.
So

Speaker 1 he's like, close your mouth. Okay.
It's hitting here. You know what what we ended up doing, which feels insane?

Speaker 2 Veneers. No.
Okay.

Speaker 1 We ended up grinding my real tooth down a little bit so it would fit with my fake tooth. And I was like, is this one of my? This is like a fad I'm going through.

Speaker 1 And I've already altered my bottom seat to match this fad.

Speaker 1 I wasn't going to tell anyone that part.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Oh, you told me.
And now you told everyone. Which one did they show?

Speaker 1 So this one's now a little. He's like, that one's too big, anyways.
He sold me on a little bit.

Speaker 2 The one that's now small?

Speaker 1 The baby tooth.

Speaker 1 I got the one that goes backwards, the jacked one. And then next to that is this one.
You think that's small now?

Speaker 1 Oh my God, you do. No, the look on your face was like, it looks small.

Speaker 2 It's shorter than it's shorter.

Speaker 1 It's shorter. Why do you do that? So it would fit my fake tooth.

Speaker 1 Okay. All right.
It's fine. It's great.
I knew I shouldn't tell you that detail. It looks great.
It looks great. But I did go, this is nuts.
I'm grinding my real teeth down.

Speaker 1 And then I'm like, I don't know. Who cares? I also think who cares? Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 mom. This tastes good for me.

Speaker 1 Stay tuned for more armchair expert.

Speaker 1 If you dare,

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Speaker 1 Oh, boy. Okay.

Speaker 2 Now, Halloween.

Speaker 1 Okay, Halloween. It was spectacular.

Speaker 2 So fun.

Speaker 2 Her usual hayride by you.

Speaker 1 Hayride was louder and brighter.

Speaker 2 It was so, it's so great.

Speaker 1 You sent me a very nice

Speaker 1 text a couple days later.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and I meant it. Like, it's a very, very special thing you do for the neighborhood.
Everyone in the neighborhood hops on and is in such a good mood. And it's such a community builder.

Speaker 2 And we just don't have things like that anymore. And it's a really special thing.

Speaker 1 It's also small towny, which I like. You're like in L.A., but it's very small towny.

Speaker 2 Really, it's just like everyone coming together and cheering and being excited. And it's very special.

Speaker 1 It is very special. You did it.
It is very special. And my brother was there for the first time.

Speaker 1 He wrote to me the whole night and he did some filming which was lovely that's his new hobby oh and it was a great like getting to spend three hours with my brother driving around and yeah it's just funny because siblings is funny right so sometimes when i would make the turn into the alley people would cheer yeah i cheered thank you you probably let it cheer because you know i like that and i'm a cheerleader and you're yes you have the credentials um and then other times crickets Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 So my brother be like, oh,

Speaker 1 you know, like he was like making fun of me a little bit, which was, but very very good natured yeah and then if they would cheer he would be like um

Speaker 1 like oh well god damn i should have been recording like oh but then a couple times i would yell out the window

Speaker 1 and he's like it's kind of a cheat because you're kind of initiating which i was like you're right that is a little okay it doesn't count yeah that's true that's true and then yeah the we had the in-and-out truck

Speaker 1 You guys went all out.

Speaker 2 It's so fun. Yeah, you guys got an in-and-out truck for the, for the neighborhood.
It's for so many people to enjoy, and it's really lovely.

Speaker 1 Halloween is a special holiday because everyone shows up eventized. They've put together a costume.
So, like, everyone's arrival is fun for them. It's fun for you.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Everyone feels special because you're getting the attention. They're trying to figure out your costume.
Yep. So it's just like very heightened.

Speaker 2 In some ways, it's a very vulnerable holiday.

Speaker 1 Tell me more. Because

Speaker 2 if you go like sexy, if you do anything, you're just deciding to like put yourself out there, participate,

Speaker 2 and look silly, perhaps. Like, I always feel it because I normally park a street down.

Speaker 1 Uh-huh.

Speaker 2 And I remember when we did Harry Potter Halloween, and I was Rita Skeeter, and I had a wig and I, it's like bright green outfit.

Speaker 1 You look like a little schoolgirl, as I remember, didn't you? Um, no, I mean, she did have a quill, but no, she was a lady. She's a lady.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Um,

Speaker 2 oh, last year I was a little married Kate Nashley. Maybe that's your.

Speaker 1 That's the overalls. Yeah, that was the overalls.
And we did that. It looked like more the bookworm, but I guess you were a teacher.
But it came out of the cross-class.

Speaker 1 Oh, okay.

Speaker 2 Anywho, it was really a look. Yeah.
And I remember when I parked and I got out of my car, I was like,

Speaker 2 oh, I got to

Speaker 2 do this. Yeah.
Like, I don't think this walk, I'm going to make it. Like, I'm so embarrassed.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow, wow.

Speaker 2 But then as soon as I enter with all these people doing the same thing, it was gone and happy. So I think it's vulnerable.

Speaker 2 Do you know the story about Charlie?

Speaker 1 Getting in the fight.

Speaker 1 Yeah, please tell it. It's so good.
Okay.

Speaker 2 Again, for people, I know everyone knows we did mashups.

Speaker 1 That was our theme. Right.

Speaker 1 And quickly to explain a mashup, you're going to come, they're going to share one mutual word. Yes.
So what was Carrie Brad Shaw Shank Redemption? Yes. Was Kristen.
Yes. That was Kristen.

Speaker 1 The Row, Row, Row Your Bow. The Row, Row Your Bow.
It was supposed to be the Row because it was

Speaker 1 right.

Speaker 1 That was Ferrariana Grande.

Speaker 2 You were Ferrariana Grande. People were upset because in the picture I posted, you had left, so you weren't in the adult picture, which was a bummer.

Speaker 1 Oh.

Speaker 2 There was one with you with the kids, but I didn't post that, obviously.

Speaker 1 okay.

Speaker 2 Anyway, okay, Charlie and Erica and their two children were on their way and they were close to the house and they, Erica was Edward's scissor handmaid's tail.

Speaker 1 She's really hers was great.

Speaker 1 It was so good.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 2 Charlie was hot dog the bounty hunter.

Speaker 1 And he crushed it.

Speaker 2 It was so good, but he's in this huge hot dog.

Speaker 1 He's in a huge hot dog and he has the huge blonde wig on with the braids in the side. Yeah.
And as we know, Perfect 10, Charlie is enormous, a human. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And they're on their way to the party and he somehow pissed off a motorcyclist. Yes.

Speaker 2 They got in a tiff.

Speaker 1 He liked, and he waved and apologized. And that wasn't enough.
Yeah. So when Charlie turned into our driveway, the motorcycle decided to come back and get in front of his car in our driveway.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And let him have it.

Speaker 2 Yes. And he did this.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he made that cut in your throat suck.

Speaker 2 Yes, which is so weird. And Charlie, it's funny.

Speaker 1 Charlie and I were bonding over this because this has happened to me more than once, which is like, I'm nice. I'm sorry.
I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
And if you're now indulgent and you're in,

Speaker 1 then I go, okay, motherfucker. Like, then I snap.

Speaker 2 Well, especially also, it wasn't just like, you owe me an apology. He was threatening.
He was being like so aggressive and threatening.

Speaker 1 Yes. So ultimately, it got to the point where Charlie

Speaker 1 said, fuck this and got out of the car. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And this motorcyclist, what could he have fucked? First of all he's a hot dog

Speaker 1 and he's dog the bounty hunter and he's huge and he's screaming at this guy as a huge hot dog hot dog the bounty hunter i

Speaker 1 i wish there was video

Speaker 2 so badly it was so sitcom-esque this idea of how a halloween fight and these people looking absolutely ridiculous

Speaker 1 a hot dog gets out oh my God.

Speaker 2 Like so serious.

Speaker 1 Yes. And if you got beat up by a hot dog,

Speaker 1 that would be so humiliating.

Speaker 2 Anyway, the hayride was fantastic. And the neighborhood took it to another level.

Speaker 1 Oh my God, yes.

Speaker 2 I believe we can credit a friend of the pod for this.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I wonder.

Speaker 2 I'm not sure. So, but I do think.

Speaker 1 I do too.

Speaker 2 Yes. Ellen Pompeo.
Yes. Friend of the pod.

Speaker 1 She was like, oh, you want to do a hayride? I got tricks too.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 1 And she hired six professional actors to be zombies. Yes.
Going around the neighborhood like you were at

Speaker 1 not Scary Farm or Universal Horror Might.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 1 So we worked in perfect concert with the hayride because people would be on the hayride and all of a sudden zombies were like chasing them and stuff. Yes.
It became the haunted hayride.

Speaker 2 It was so

Speaker 2 amazing. And it really, again, just the commitment.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I did get a little, I mean, I was personally extremely scared.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 There is a very funny husband-wife story that came out of this, right? Which is like, I pull up into the same spot in the neighborhood every time for people to unload and load. Yes.

Speaker 1 And people know that's where you get on or off the hayride. So I pull up and Kristen's there and she's like, you got to go find these zombies.
And I go, what?

Speaker 1 She's like, you have to talk to the zombies. You got to tell them, tell them they got they got to stop scaring kids.

Speaker 2 Oh, I was nervous about that.

Speaker 1 And I go, oh, hon, I can't deliver that. Sure.
Like, that's just what this day is. Yeah.
And she's like, three little kids have already left. And I was like, oh, fuck.

Speaker 2 I know.

Speaker 1 We don't want that. We don't want kids leaving the Halloween.
I know. So I'm like, oh, you know, me, I want to be cool.

Speaker 1 So I'm like, fuck. And I'm the one that's going to see Ellen next because I'll be at the the top of the hill.

Speaker 2 She's such a cool thing. She's doing so cool.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So I get to the top of the hill and she's out in front of her house.

Speaker 1 And I go, hey, I really hate delivering this note. I think it goes against the spirit of the holiday.
But if the zombies could maybe not scare the little kids. Okay, great.

Speaker 1 And she's like, yeah, yeah, zombies don't scare. She didn't care at all.
And I don't think the zombies cared at all. Okay.

Speaker 1 But I did have to like clamp down on the zombies, which felt really compromising.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's yeah, but probably was the right thing.

Speaker 2 I did think, I did think, uh-oh, like these are scary.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 And what about

Speaker 2 these little kids?

Speaker 1 If I'm scared, well, some left, Monica, is what I was told.

Speaker 1 We walked. Yeah, Rob, what was, what were the boys? We walked up there first, and Vinny was leading the charge, like just walking.
And they were, they, they laid off him. They were

Speaker 1 one feet tall.

Speaker 2 But even just the, even just seeing them as a little scary.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Did they give Calvin hell? Yeah, yeah.
They chased Calvin a little bit. Oh, did he lose it?

Speaker 1 Did he like it or? Yeah, yeah. He loved it.
Oh, good.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's the thing. You don't know who's going to love it and who's not.
One of the zombies knew my name.

Speaker 1 Oh. Which was flattering,

Speaker 2 but also scary. I didn't like it.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 Anika. Oh.

Speaker 2 It was a girl. Yeah, yeah, I think.

Speaker 1 Because what if it was one of the boy zombies? Oh, she called you Prince. Yeah,

Speaker 1 it's all very funny.

Speaker 2 I think it was too.

Speaker 1 Fucking.

Speaker 2 Maybe it was Groff or whatever. What's his name?

Speaker 1 Groot.

Speaker 2 No, not Groot, the grandson,

Speaker 2 the scary singer.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 Guar. Guar.

Speaker 1 Guar. The horned pigface goblin.
Yeah, maybe it was actually Guar. What's his name? Blothar the Berserker.
Oh. Blothar the Blesser.
We should have invited Guar to the. Fuck, should we have Guar?

Speaker 1 Oh my God, we find. Because I'm like, this whole night, I'm like, we've, we've peaked.
I really don't even know if we should host next year. Or you have to, yeah.

Speaker 1 But fuck, if you got to the top of the turnaround and Guar was on a stage up there shooting blood out of their penises and stuff, you think kids were leaving with the zombies.

Speaker 1 Wait till Blothar the Blizzaster gets his penises out.

Speaker 1 We've got to get Guar

Speaker 1 performing in the neighborhood. Okay.
Just maybe perhaps ask him to wear pants over all those panties.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Just desexualize it a little bit.

Speaker 2 Just a little bit on Halloween.

Speaker 2 I guess that's it for Halloween. It was just really fun.

Speaker 1 It was so much fun.

Speaker 2 It was really, really fun.

Speaker 2 One thing we need to talk about.

Speaker 1 Oh, God, yes. And we're adorned in it right now.
So not a problem. Not a problem.

Speaker 1 Our new merch is the best we've had ever.

Speaker 2 Absolutely ever. It's so high quality.

Speaker 1 This is actual embroidery. Embroidered.

Speaker 2 And yeah, so for the listener, you might want to go to YouTube to see it. I'm wearing a sweatshirt, blackshirt.
Gorgeous sweatshirt.

Speaker 2 It says Armchair Expert has a crow on it, has a little mouse on the sleeve.

Speaker 1 Tiny mouse. Very cute little mouse.

Speaker 2 And I really can't get around

Speaker 2 over the quality.

Speaker 1 No, the quality's off the charts. I, and I've been wearing this non-stop.
Yeah. I wear it like four days in a row.
Yeah. It just got out of the wash, though, for today.

Speaker 1 Finally, a really great station shirt. And then I'm going to turn around and say, say, look at the back.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's great.

Speaker 2 Hey, y'all.

Speaker 1 Really great station.

Speaker 2 So this is going to be available

Speaker 2 in time for the holidays, but it's coming out.

Speaker 1 November 14th for pre-order.

Speaker 2 November 14th for pre-order. And there's other stuff too.
There's plenty. There's lots of stuff.

Speaker 1 Oh, I got a hoodie here too. A new george.

Speaker 1 Show the hoodie. I'm going to show off the hoodie.

Speaker 1 It has a cute crow embroidery. Gosh, yeah.
Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 It also has a mouse on the sleeve. And it has cherries on the hood.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 But it's all very minimal and like.

Speaker 1 It's very discreet.

Speaker 2 It's a really good looking collection, guys.

Speaker 1 I applaud you, Monica. You really spearheaded and steamrolled.
What is it? What are the words we use?

Speaker 1 It's really micromanaged.

Speaker 1 You know what? You made people's life hell to get here. Yeah, well, you really did all this, and it turned out great.
I'm so into it.

Speaker 2 It's a really nice classic collection, and we're excited to put it out.

Speaker 1 I think I was wearing one the other day, too. There's a super cute heart-shaped cherries.

Speaker 2 I love that one.

Speaker 1 Yeah, what does it say on that one? Just armchair.

Speaker 1 Okay, have a good time.

Speaker 2 Have a great time. We love it here.
Guar.

Speaker 1 Vote for Guar.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So go check that out and pre-order.
And it'll be for domestic. It'll be ready by the holidays.

Speaker 1 Buy yourself something for Christmas.

Speaker 2 Yeah, do serve it. Okay.
So I

Speaker 2 started watching a show, an old show.

Speaker 1 Me too. Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 Wow, it's in the air. What did you watch?

Speaker 1 No, no, no, no.

Speaker 2 Defending Jacob. It was a

Speaker 2 show on Apple, and it's old, or, you know, it's older.

Speaker 1 Older than Apple? 2020.

Speaker 2 2020.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 it

Speaker 2 has Chris Evans

Speaker 2 and is adapted from a book. And it's a little bit of a whodunit.
It's kind of like a broad church,

Speaker 2 who done it, presumed innocence.

Speaker 1 Sure,

Speaker 1 murder mystery.

Speaker 2 Exactly. And, you know, obviously, I watched the whole thing in two days because that's how I operate.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 And there was something really interesting. So you used to, you haven't brought this up in a long time, but you used to bring up a

Speaker 2 something you read about a gene that you called like,

Speaker 2 you called Matt, Matt.

Speaker 1 Oh, M-A-O.

Speaker 2 You called it M-A-O. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 This is the watching the grass grow, gene.

Speaker 2 Right. So, so, yeah, you talked about it and you said that.

Speaker 1 No, it's not a gene. It's just a chemical in your brain.
People have high levels of it, low levels of it. Okay.

Speaker 2 And then what happened? Tell people about it.

Speaker 1 Well, if you have a lot of MAO, you're very content to watch the grass grow. And if you have very low MAO, you need a lot to stimulate you.
So these are like adventure seekers and adrenaline junkies.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 Now, you used to talk about that all the time. And I think I probably like looked it up at some point.
I don't remember. But on this show, they talk about

Speaker 2 something called the murder gene

Speaker 2 or the warrior gene.

Speaker 1 Ooh, warrior gene.

Speaker 2 And it is the MAOA gene.

Speaker 1 Oh, so maybe that's the gene that makes.

Speaker 2 I think it's connected to this. Yeah, it's...

Speaker 2 Monoamine oxidases, M-AoA, enzyme, which breaks down transmitters like serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine.

Speaker 2 Low levels of this enzyme are linked to a predisposition for aggressive behavior, especially when combined with environmental factors like childhood trauma.

Speaker 2 The MAOA gene is located on the X chromosome, leading to differences in how it affects males and females.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 yeah.

Speaker 1 So it's passed by mom. Oh.

Speaker 2 Isn't that interesting? They talk about that in the show.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And so

Speaker 2 some, like in the show, I don't know how, I don't know know if this is used in real life, but like in the show, they test kid for, yeah, this boy Jacob for it. Um,

Speaker 2 and they test the family. Yeah.
Jacob doesn't have it.

Speaker 1 Or he doesn't have it. Yes.
Okay.

Speaker 2 He doesn't have it, but also the mom, because it's passed through the mom and the dad and the grandpa have it.

Speaker 1 Okay. And the maternal grandpa.

Speaker 2 No, the.

Speaker 2 Okay. You just got to watch it.

Speaker 1 Okay. In the show.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 This is is a spoiler.

Speaker 1 Well, it's five years old. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Chris Evans has this son, and then he also has a dad, but he's been lying about the dad. He says he didn't know his dad, and he never knew his dad, but turns out he did know his dad.

Speaker 2 And when he was about six, the dad went to jail for rape and murder.

Speaker 1 Oof.

Speaker 1 I wish it was just murder.

Speaker 2 Yeah, everyone wishes that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's played by J.K. Simmons.

Speaker 1 Oh, we love J.K. Simmons.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 Jacob

Speaker 2 is in a little bit of a pickle.

Speaker 1 Okay. A legal issue.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And so the legal team is trying to see if they can say that he has this gene in case he's found guilty.
They can say it's not his fault.

Speaker 1 Okay. Okay.

Speaker 2 Okay. So I just thought this was a full circle.

Speaker 1 I was really in. Murder gene.
Now I want to watch it. I've decided to start Boardwalk Empire.

Speaker 2 Oh, I never watched that.

Speaker 1 It's great. Of course it was it.
Within two episodes, I'm like, yeah, this is phenomenal. This is like Sopranos, kind of.

Speaker 2 It's fun to find shows. It is.
If anyone else wants to recommend more Whodunits, I'm in the mood for Whodone It's.

Speaker 1 I'll try to keep my thinking cap on. Okay.

Speaker 2 All right. Now we can talk about facts.

Speaker 1 Facts.

Speaker 2 It was so cool that he did Silence of the Lambs.

Speaker 1 Then we got him to. That was scary.
You know what's funny is I would never have the gall to say, like, could you give me a little Clarice? Yeah.

Speaker 1 But he just did it on his own and i thought get out of the way yeah hopefully he'll do this for the next 30 minutes i could have watched his entire role exactly yeah we should invite someone on to do their whole role from something what would you pick nicholas cage from um vampire's kiss i know because i need you to see him count to or do the alphabet yeah i want to see that Also, though, that's tricky because we also want to talk to him.

Speaker 2 Like, who are you willing to not talk to, but just have them do their role?

Speaker 1 Tom Cruise as well would be a good one. Oh.
Because as I've said on here many times, and this is another pledge to anyone in his world or sphere. Yeah.
I won't ask a single hard-hitting question.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I just want to talk about his career.
I don't care if he killed someone on the way over. I won't mention it.

Speaker 2 For anyone listening, I have not agreed to that pledge.

Speaker 1 That's not your thing. Yeah.
Yeah. People have already yelled at me and it hasn't even happened.
People are like, you can't have him on and up. And I said, no, I can just

Speaker 1 worship somebody because you get a lot, you know, you get a lot of the other version. It's okay if I just fallate someone once in a while.
You can.

Speaker 2 I won't be doing that. Okay.

Speaker 1 What are you going to ask? Because you might have just rolled us up.

Speaker 2 On the way home. And how'd you do it?

Speaker 1 We both know how to call. He saved somebody on the way over.
Yeah, that's right. Because that's kind of a

Speaker 2 okay.

Speaker 1 Let's see.

Speaker 2 He said he thought Edgar Allan Poe said, if we think about it, our lives have been written by some other author.

Speaker 2 Now, that quote, it seems, is a misattribution and a popular misunderstanding of a philosophy expressed by Will Durant.

Speaker 2 It says Durant did not say this, but he wrote about how other people's opinions and actions can influence our lives.

Speaker 1 Who's Will Durant?

Speaker 1 Historian and philosopher.

Speaker 2 He's a philosopher.

Speaker 1 What era?

Speaker 1 1885. He He was born.
You know, my kids have grown fond of saying to me, You were born in the 1900s. And it sounds so funny.

Speaker 2 Because it's true. And it's true.

Speaker 1 I know. But it sounds ridiculous.
It does. She's like, oh, you were born in the 1900s.

Speaker 2 How tall is the Empire State Building? He knew that because of his books. Yeah.
Do you want to guess?

Speaker 1 Okay. I think it's probably

Speaker 1 70 stories.

Speaker 1 So I'm going to say 680 feet. More.
More. Is it like 100 stories?

Speaker 2 It doesn't say stories on here. Okay.
I'm sure it's 860 feet. It's 1,250 feet.

Speaker 1 Almost a quarter of a mile. That's a lot.
Almost a quarter of a mile. Oh, my God.
Do you ever

Speaker 1 toothpaste? There's a core.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 2 it's really tall.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's much taller than I would have expected. Say it again, 1,200 feet.
So it's got to be like 110 stories or 108 stories.

Speaker 2 And it's actually 1,454 feet to the tip.

Speaker 1 1,004, so more than a quarter mile. Wow.
102 stories.

Speaker 1 102 stories.

Speaker 2 I don't want to go to that 100 and actually I've been.

Speaker 1 I forgot. Wow.

Speaker 2 Yeah, with Kristen. We went to the top.

Speaker 1 For a press thing or something? Yeah. So funny, all the places you end up going on a press thing.

Speaker 1 And you can't because you didn't frame it right you don't really experience it yeah it's a damn i have to go to the empire state building today right at 10 o'clock and then we got to be blank at what yes and then you're you leave and you're like oh i was up there and i didn't even realize i know and you do go up some like creepy stairs to get to the tippity's yeah

Speaker 2 um oh i thought it was interesting because he knew hitler's I mean, his just, his memory was so amazing.

Speaker 2 And he knew Hitler's doctor's name immediately. Like you were telling a story and you said Hitler's doctor and he said Dr.
Morrell. Yeah.
And he just knew it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 You know, we were discussing this, you and I, off-mic.

Speaker 1 And I was saying we have found this with a lot of people that were born in the 30s, 40s, 50s. My mom.
Yeah. I do think there's something to be said with there was no stimuli.

Speaker 1 There was like, you watch TV for an hour at night. Yeah.

Speaker 1 That there was just way less info hitting you. I guess.
And so everyone of that age seems to have a much higher retention of names of kids and teachers from their youth.

Speaker 2 I think that's a good theory.

Speaker 2 I mean, there is something.

Speaker 1 What else? Something's different. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Something's different.

Speaker 1 Or maybe it's that we're juggling a much huger pool of people because we're online and that opens you up to like thousands of people or whatever.

Speaker 1 Something, there's something has to be the explanation.

Speaker 2 He likes new lines. He likes new lines from movies and stuff he wasn't in.

Speaker 1 But that part is, I think, unique to him.

Speaker 1 That's why he can do Shakespeare.

Speaker 2 Right, right.

Speaker 1 Because that kind of memory. Yeah.
Remembering sonnets and poems and stuff. I can't do that.
I have some rap songs from the 90s I know Inside Now.

Speaker 1 One.

Speaker 2 Dude, would you like to?

Speaker 1 No, I know you never enjoy when I do colors.

Speaker 2 When you do colors?

Speaker 1 That's always the one I'll do. That's the one Aaron and I will do together.
I am a night mere walking, psychopath stalking. King of the jungle just a gangster stalking.
Living life like a firecracker.

Speaker 2 cook is my fuse then dead is the death that's the colors i choose red or blue because of blood it just don't matter so i could die for your life when my shotgun scatter we come to la we never die we just multiply colors that's just the first verse nice we could go on you can go on if you want um was who's afraid of virginia wolf mike nichols first film yes highly recommend yeah an edward alby play it was um one of my theater professor's favorite plays it was so she would talk about it all the time you know stuff that we don't know I don't think so you don't remember yeah I don't have the memory that he has so no what do you remember you remember friends episodes in great detail not in as much detail as I used to it's actually very sad I don't like to be put to the test because I it makes me sad yeah I really I used to be able to name all the episodes and stuff like that I don't think I could do that anymore I used to know every single word in Smoky and the Bandit like from beginning to end

Speaker 1 Every single world, word in Raising Arizona, beginning to end. Yep.
There were movies I knew inside now.

Speaker 2 Goodwill Hunting, obviously.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I did, I did someone's podcast and they

Speaker 2 put this to the test. They had me finish lines of Goodwill Hunting.
Oh, and I couldn't do it. Like, I did a couple, but I missed a lot.
And it was really upsetting.

Speaker 1 Sorry, they did that to you. Me too.
I would never do that to you. Thank you.
Is that a commitment? Yeah. Okay, thank you.
Out loud. Overburden.

Speaker 1 it

Speaker 1 um

Speaker 1 well that's it that was all the facts yeah he knew hitler's well i just thought that was interesting it sure was it's more of like uh

Speaker 1 it is a fact

Speaker 1 of the fact that we had like uh we we named the things we thought were interesting i mean that is a lot of what i do that's true so i guess it's uh it's in keeping it's a fact that you found it interesting i checked it and it was correct the name was right yeah yeah it's impressive It really is.

Speaker 2 That's it.

Speaker 1 All right. Love you.

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Speaker 4 Hey there, Armchairies. Guess what? It's Mel Robbins.
I'm popping in here taking out my own ad. Holy cow, Dax, Monica, and I, I don't want this conversation to end.

Speaker 4 And I'm so glad you're here with us. And the other thing, I can't believe, Dax.

Speaker 1 loves the Let Them Theory.

Speaker 4 He can't stop talking about it. I hope you're loving listening as much as I love having you here.

Speaker 4 And And I also know since you love listening to Armchair Expert, you know who you're going to love listening to?

Speaker 1 The Let Them Theory audiobook.

Speaker 4 And guess who reads it?

Speaker 1 Me.

Speaker 4 And even if you've read the book, guess what? The audiobook is different. I tell different stories.
I riff. I cry.
You're going to love it because it's going to feel like I'm right there next to you.

Speaker 4 We're in this together as we learn to stop controlling other people.

Speaker 4 So thanks again for listening to this episode of Armchair Expert and check out the audiobook version of the Let Them Theory, read by yours truly.

Speaker 1 Available now on Audible.

Speaker 4 You can even try it out for free with an Audible trial.

Speaker 1 Download the Audible app today.