Healing the Hurt We Didn’t Ask For With MY sister Mikaila

Welcome to the shit show. Things are going to get weird.

It's your favede villain, Kale Law.

And you're listening to Barely Famous.

Welcome to Barely Famous. I'm sitting with my sister for the first time on this podcast, and I'm so excited because I think that people want to hear about things from your perspective.

How we met, how you found out about me, if you ever watched Teen Teen Mom before we met, or I guess 16 and pregnant. And then obviously we have to talk about our dad dying.

So we got to talk about lots of things today.

I'm ready. Okay.
All right. So first,

how old are you? You're 29. Yeah, I'm 29.

I'm 33. So we're four years apart.
And according to Raymond, we weighed the same when we were born. Yeah.
What was it? It was like 6.5 or something. Eight.
Eight? Eight pounds.

I'm a big bitch. You thought I was six pounds?

I thought that's what we were. No, eight pounds, five ounces.
That's how big we were. Yeah, we were big babies.
Luckily, it was eight, one. Oh, wow.
Okay. Lincoln was the closest.
He was eight, six.

Okay. So, and then I found out about you around 12 years old.
I was like 12. Got in a fight with my mom's husband at the time.

And he said, and he said something along the lines of like, and that's why you have a sister that your mom never told you about. I never knew until you added me on Facebook.
Are you serious?

I probably got Facebook. I was in high school.
So

I mean, I was probably

a

junior or senior in high school when I added you on Facebook. I'm trying to think of like how old I was.
I just know it was like summer. You added me.

My mom told me to delete it. So I did out of respect.
And then you added me again.

Because you know how on Facebook, it's like, you don't know if they declined it or if it didn't go through yeah so i was like what the fuck like it must have not gone through no it did i just and you were like i'm not allowed to do it i was no i i told my mom i was like who is this because lowry's a last name she kind of looks like me like no one had ever said anything i always had a feeling i there was like some other part

um not of the story but like

feeling like I had a sister or something uh or some other sibling at least. And so I was like, why does she kind of look like me and um

she just shut it down immediately um which i get it not having a good relationship with you know our father

but

i don't know i just never think that you should do that to your child because how many years did we miss

Well, that was when we went to go see Raymond in September. Was it the September? Yeah.

That was the one thing that I don't know if you remember me saying it to him, but I was like, the adults couldn't get their shit together enough for us to have a relationship. I think,

like,

in some ways, it was upsetting to my mom.

I don't know if my mom knew the relationship between your mom and our dad, but if it was better than what my mom had with him, I think it was one of those situations where, like, in my mom's head, she justified it.

basically being like, well, he's there for her and not for you. No, I can guarantee you.
I think I'm not trying to discredit

your

situation, but I think ours was just completely like different

because

I don't think,

I'm gonna be honest, I don't think

I think both of them had a very toxic relationship, but in different ways. Agreed.
My, from what I understand,

what Raymond disclosed to you about some of the questions, he was not being honest. And I think it's because we weren't the only ones there.
Wait, really? Yeah.

Like,

so

I don't think that he has never been physical. And I don't think I know he has never.

Okay, but to your mom, not necessarily to my mom. That's what I'm saying.
It's possible that he was never violent with my mom. I don't think, I think for him, I don't see him as a violent person.

Okay. I think it's situational.
Right, of course. Not that it's right.
It's not right by any means, but I just think that from stories I've heard,

from things I've asked about, like to my mom when she was alive, like her face just, it looked like someone was holding a gun to her head. Like it was, there was nothing

like I would be surprised if there wasn't that physical aspect. So I understand why she didn't want to say anything.
I mean,

it's like one of those things. Do you want to involve that part of someone's life if they're fine without it? Because

her fear was that you were going to come into my life

and he would too. He'd follow.
Okay, so she did not know what my relationship was with him. No, and then, but once she met our Aunt Susie, not my mom.
No, Aunt Susie, yeah.

She started feeling better about it. And that's whenever we could start.
Having a relationship. So

did you know when did you start asking questions about who your real dad was?

Because you remembered him when you were you saw the last time you saw him was when you were five. Yeah, um, I think

it was hard. I just kind of gave up on asking questions.
Whenever you ask enough and you never get answers,

you just stop asking. So, so were you asking, like, after the last time you saw him at your fifth birthday, were you asking like, where is he? Did he go to the store? Yeah, you didn't ask.

Um, no, because it was his relationship with my mom was always in and out. So it's like one day he, because I remember, like, that's not the only thing I remember about him.

Yeah, I remember like being in his truck, going for rides with him.

And this is back in the day where you could throw your kids in the front seat. Yeah, and it didn't.
Yeah, it didn't matter.

And so,

like, I remember, I remember enough to where it's like, I wasn't that curious. I remember the tattoo he had.
Like, I just,

the memories I had of him, extremely positive. Cause when you're a kid.
That's all you know. Yeah, that's all you know.
And

so I just didn't feel like I needed to ask. Like,

I always

kind of said as a kid, okay, so

whenever I go to his funeral, it's like I already had in my mind that I would never see him again.

Because my mom was so anti. So I just didn't ask questions.
I didn't want to. Like, like I told him whenever you were there, like, I'm just not a curious person.

Like, if it doesn't, like, it directly affects me, yes.

But nothing about the questions I ask is going to affect me as a person, like, my outlook on anything. Right.

It, like, it's, it's kind of, it's like, I know it's hard to like understand saying like that, but I don't know. F something's not going to directly correlate to anything like moving forward.

I just, I don't care.

But so

you knew about your dad, but you didn't know about me.

I knew, I found out about my dad. I started, I think I started asking questions about him

between 10 and 12, somewhere around there. But I knew about him to the point where I was searching for information.
I was like digging through my mom's closet.

And that's where I found information about him. And then my mom, and I was arguing with my mom's husband, and he used it against me that you were like, he knew that you existed.

And at that point, I didn't have have a computer i didn't have social media i didn't have anything and so it wasn't until high school but like it when i tell you that i looked for you and our dad from the time i found out about you guys until i graduated high school like i never stopped looking and michaela will tell you guys like i

i think i was 18

And I tracked down, I found out that you had a brother.

This was after I went to go meet Raymond on 16 and pregnant. No,

you didn't track down him. You tracked down his best friend.
Right, right, right. But But I found out how I did that was I went to go meet our dad.

I met him in 2009 for the first time ever in my whole life. I met him and he told me you had an older brother.

When I learned that you had an older brother, I at his house in Waco, I was like, well, what is his name? And he told me and he told me the first and last name.

So then I was searching for your brother on socials and came across his best friend. So then I reached out to the best friend and I didn't hear back from anybody, I don't think.

I think he might have told me like he would be be willing to try but he didn't have any promises for where it would go I think that's sort of where it was if I remember correctly and then

I want to say I talked to your brother maybe

yeah he's I think very protective over the situation he I'm sure he remembers a lot um because he was older I mean he's older than me yeah he um so we're four years apart and then your brother was born five he's my brother's five and a half like we're five and a half okay so he's born in 90 so he's two years older than me so he's I would imagine he was was way more protective over you.

Yeah. So, um,

but that's the thing is, like, I think he saw

part of that toxicity. And I think that shapes you as a kid.
I mean, like, we, we know, like, toxic situations, like, they're they stick with you for life. They do.
And, um,

someone in my family was telling me about like

some things like she has, like, had seen

like physically on

like someone in that situation. I I don't want to say who, but, um,

and it was just, just kind of heartbreaking to hear. Like, it's just,

I don't think he wanted to let that part in at all. No, I think that's all valid.
Like, I've never held it against you, your brother, your mom, anything. Like, I got it.

But once your mom felt comfortable. And I got to go hang out with you and your mom and your stepdad.
And I met your brother. Like, I think your mom probably felt better.

Oh, my mom loved you because your mom was the sweetest lady to me. Yeah, she loved you.

I didn't have any, like, I think it probably made her feel comforted that I didn't have a relationship with him, too. Oh, yeah.
Well, I think it just eased her fears.

And I'm not trying to pin him out to be a horrible person. I don't think he was.
You can be a okay

person,

but be in toxic situations,

even if you were the cause of the toxic.

Yeah.

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I don't think he was a bad person. I didn't even get that vibe like from him whenever we saw him.
Yeah.

I genuinely think he,

I think I share a lot of characteristics of him. Yes.
The not, the sort of like nonchalant, like, don't give a fuck about, like, it is what it is. Yeah.
Is so Raymond. Yeah.
That you, that's the same.

That's the same humor. Yes.
For sure, too. Oh, yeah.
The same humor. Because sometimes I'm like, was that a joke? Or like, what are you, like, I don't know what he's getting at.

So there was a time that I went to Dallas and it was me, Bone, Quay, Sterling.

I think Chris went, like, my ex-Chris.

And we went to the Cheesecake Factory.

Oh, not the time. Okay.
What happened at the Cheesecake Factory?

Oh, I just remember. I met Chris there.
Like, I met Chris at the Whataburger.

What?

I think it was by the Cheesecake Factory. Yeah.

Wait, you've met.

Have you met Joe? I met Joe, Hobby,

Chris.

Did you meet Elijah? No. You can meet him tomorrow.
I'm down.

But yeah, I met him at like...

I think it was, we were either walking to the Cheesecake Factory

or we were in the Whataburger parking lot.

I have no memory of this whatsoever. I was about to say that we were in Texas and like, you know all my friends because I brought like they came to Texas.

I do know your friends, but like, no, I met him in like a parking lot. You met Chris in a parking lot in Texas.

That's what I thought. I believe maybe it was Texas.
Maybe it wasn't. I don't remember, but I was.
I thought it was Dallas whenever.

Remember that video on Instagram? The one where you try to do a cartwheel? Yeah. Yeah, we have that in common that we can never do them.

So that was definitely a genetic quality was that we can never do. It was around that time.
The first time I meet you, I flew to Texas and I met you. I think I was

19 or 20 because I already had Elliot.

Well, and the thing that annoys me though is I think people

have this

like

they just I've seen where they say that I only want to be in your life because of teen mom. I had, I didn't, I never watched teen mom or 16 and pregnant before I found out about you.
Really?

Because I was lying to people my whole life saying I had a sister named Melissa or Mackenzie. No.
Like, it depends who you talk to. No, it wasn't until I found out.

And my mom even still was like, I can't remember if it's the Caitlin or the Kaylin.

Like, she couldn't remember. She couldn't remember who I was? No, I think she got your name mixed up because she watched the show.
Your mom watched 16 Impregnant and Teen Mom? Yeah.

I didn't watch it until she told me. And then the only reason why I started it was because I started on the episode of you meeting Raymond.

Did your mom let you watch it? Did she know you watched it? I don't know. So did you see me and you saw him and you were like, that's my dad? Or you didn't realize it was your dad?

He kind of looked different from my memory.

Yeah, I remember when he looked like Alan Jackson. He didn't look like Alan Jackson when I met him.
I know. Yeah, and that's, I don't know.

I just think that whenever I saw that episode, it was kind of hard to believe that that was him because he looked completely different. And then the meat freezer thing.
And then,

and then I just think about your conversation about Dunkin' Donuts. Wait, so you were watching it and you didn't know it was your dad?

Well, I did after because.

But while you were watching it in that moment, you know what? No, it didn't click for me because he looked so different. If I was just watching it, I would have not, I've, I would have had no idea.

Did your mom say that's your sister? She was, like I said, she was confused which, you know, which one of you it would be, like her name-wise, but um, that's whenever I started watching it.

And then I would, because I wanted to know who you were. I mean, we spent how long not knowing each other.
And,

um,

I don't know. I just, and, but I never kept up with it consistently.
People would text me about it and I'd be like, I don't know what you're talking about. Like, I'm not watching the show.

And I try to keep up with it, but I'm very horrible with commitments like that. So this is so fascinating to me.
Okay, so you find out that I'm on TV.

You see our dad for the first time in a long time.

I watch both. I watched both.

I watched both you and Caitlin because I didn't know.

Oh, interesting. Yeah.
So there was a period you thought that she might be your sister? Kind of, yeah, because my mom didn't know. Well, I didn't.
I wasn't convinced.

Okay, okay, okay, but it was like, it could be. Yeah, my mom was like, it could be her or her.
I like, but I wonder how your mom knew. Like, did she watch it and she just recognized?

She was like, that has to be Raymond's daughter. I don't know if like she did because she was a sucker for reality TV anyway.

But I know that she kept up with the episodes. And I'm like, I'm, I mean, you could talk to me about this all day long, but I'd rather get my information from my sister, not the TV.
Yeah, yeah.

This is, I, it's so fascinating to me because my whole life, I, I lied to people saying, well, I guess it wasn't, it didn't end up being a lie.

Like, I had this picture of myself and it was, it was like, um, I made it at daycare, or like the daycare made it for us. And it was like this little block of like wood.

And they like hodgepodge the picture on the keychain. And they like, you like give it as a gift to like your mom or something.
And it was me. And I like found it years later.

And I was like, no, this is my little sister. And I knew it was me, but I would tell people it was my little sister, like a pathological little liar.

And I was like, This is my sister, Melissa, or some people would say, This is my sister Mackenzie. I was not far off, like, I really, Michaela is not far off.

No, so I knew something was telling me I had a sister. I who would have thought it would have, we would have had the same name in our names.

Well, and then that pissed me off too, because my mom told me my whole life that she named me off of a like it was like a name she saw in like a soap opera. Yeah, my mom's was like Dr.

Quinn or something like that.

She was full of shit because then I met you and I'm like, we have the same fucking name. There's no way.
And you used to be a Lowry. Yeah.
What was that decision?

Did you tell your mom that you did not want to be a Lowry or did your mom say? No, I was actually. Okay.

So this goes in two parts. So my mom, she wanted to change my name for one because of her being scared.
Fair. And two, she wanted

what she told me was that she wanted

me not to feel left out because she

and my brother had the same last name due to her previous marriage.

But

that being said, I was very,

I wasn't angered by the situation, but it made me have an identity crisis because when you go your whole life knowing that you are not something,

and but having to still go by that last name

for me,

it really messed with me. I hated.
I told myself,

when I turned 18, I'm going to change my name back to Lowry. Really? Yeah, I really, like, because,

you know, I just really had an identity crisis with it, because, like, but I would never tell anybody, like, no one would know.

But then the information about, that's not even being Lowry's is.

So it's a bigger identity crisis. No, I feel like I still am fighting the identity crisis to this day.
Yeah. Because

I never felt like a Lowry. I had sort of the opposite feeling of you.
Like where I grew up in Honesdale, which I don't think I got to take you there yet. At some point, I'll take you.

But where I grew up, everyone was Irwin, which is my mom's last name.

And I had cousins that were my age. but I never grew up with them.
Like they went to the, we went to the same school, but I never grew up with them. I never spent time with them.

I never was around them. And my one cousin, Allie Irwin, was in my grade.
Like she was, I think she's April also. She's April 92.
So we were a month apart and I never got to grow up with her.

So I was so upset. I begged my mom to change my last name to Irwin and she would be like, yeah, I'll get to it.
Like sort of like not saying no, but she never did it.

And then when I had Elliot, I was like, well, I'm going to make him a Rivera, I guess. And my mom was like, no, make him a Lowry.
But I was just so like, I didn't feel connected to Lowry.

And now that I have as many kids as I do, I always regretted naming Elliot Rivera because Joe and I were never married.

And I knew as soon as I was pregnant, the first thing that I found like the first thing I said out loud was what if I don't want to be with him forever and I was with my friend when I said that and so I don't know why I don't know why I ended up giving him Rivera maybe I was hopeful that we would be together maybe I thought I would fall back in love with I don't know

I regret naming him Rivera and I don't regret giving Lincoln Merrick win because I was married to his dad but then the rest of my kids they're all lowry and it's like

I always wanted to be an Irwin so why didn't I when I had the opportunity to change my last name, change it to Erwin, and then make all my kids Irwin?

And now that I found out that we're not Lowry's and our dad was not a Lowry is really upsetting to me because it's like

I just, we just wanted to find a place to belong our whole lives. Like, we didn't know our dad.

I don't know if you felt this way, but like growing up, like, I knew it wasn't right that I didn't know my dad. Like, I knew it wasn't right.

I,

or did you sort of feel indifferent because you knew him a little bit? I don't know. Maybe

I knew him a little bit, but like I never

missed. I felt like my mom did an amazing job of making me feel like she wasn't the only parent.
She was, to me, both mom and dad.

And I would tell her Happy Father's Day and all that kind of stuff.

So I don't think I ever missed him because there was nothing to miss. Where I did such a good job of,

you know, being that single parent that, you know, I

felt like selfish missing him. So I just chose not to.

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I wish that we could have grown up together. And I told Raymond that when we saw him in September, like, I should have been able to spend summers with you.

And I wish that I would have had a different story, but I'm less angry about it now.

But

I think from leaving Texas this past September to now, it's just like, I still don't understand.

Like, I wish that we could have grown up together because at that point, I would have had a different maybe connection with the last name. I would feel like I belonged somewhere.

I would, but my mom also didn't do do a good job. I think she did her best, but my mom's, but just because it's your best doesn't mean it's good enough.

And so that's sort of where I'm at with it: is like my mom was battling addiction every single day.

And so she did the best she could battling addiction, but like it's really not good enough, unfortunately. Well, that kind of makes me like

curious because my mom had her vices, like she did.

And

was Raymond just drawn to it? Because both of our parents struggled. Yeah.

And

him saying whenever he met, like, he, there was nothing physical. How do you have two

different relationships?

And I know he, at one point, I'm pretty sure I think he had a drinking thing. Did he?

I only ever remember him with a beer in his hand. Fair.

I had my first sip of beer at like four years old because of him.

Maybe that's just a Texas thing. I don't know.

It could have also just been like the 90s because I feel like in the 90s. And I'm not regretful of it, but like

it was such like a core memory of mine because it was all that I remember like

associate it with that I like still remember that first taste like if that makes sense and it's just that's how,

like, were you just

drawn to addiction?

Or, like, my mom wasn't like some drug addict or anything. That's not what I'm saying.
But, um, she was,

she just had her vices. And

some people struggle more with their vices. And I think that

some people are drawn to that. I just wish that there was some sort of communication between your mom and my mom at any given point.
I don't think my mom would have gotten along with your mom at all.

No, I don't think my mom would have gotten along with your mom. But if they would have just put their shit aside, they we could have had a relationship.
I think so too.

After hands were thrown, because my mama would have thrown hands.

I don't know if Susie would have, but like my mom would have. They would have been mad at each other for the wrong reasons.
Do you know what I mean?

Like it wouldn't have been like, because I loved your mom. Like she was so I went to her funeral.
Like she was so good to me.

I don't have anything to say like negative about her, but it's like, yeah, Susie was,

and I say was, she's not, I don't know if she's dead, dead, but

what I remember of her being sober, she was really fun to be around.

So like, had you taken Raymond out of it, maybe they would have been friends, but I don't think they would have got along for the simple fact that Raymond was the common denominator. Yeah.

And I think their situations were just so different with him.

But what is interesting that you and I talked about in September was that

your grandparents also had like pretty wealthy, well, well off. Yeah.

My mom's parents were the same and I think it was like almost the same situation too because like my family at one point owned part of the town okay so very similar very similar and I it's so interesting to me that Raymond was able to pull both women for, you know, and our families were very well known and very like well-to-do, wealthy families.

And both of them sort of struggled with some of the same things. and so it's really interesting to me he must be drawn to it or like maybe his picker was broken and

i was disappointed to find out that he was just joking about the philippine siblings i don't know i don't think he was joking and i after that visit i would argue that there's probably more siblings than just the philippines he was married to someone i was just about to say that i was just about to say he was married uh so he was married my mom he's obviously a fertile person

um well you can't tell me

you can't tell me that we couldn't possibly have someone in Hawaii. No, we definitely do.
And also our names were

like the idea came from Hawaii. Yeah.
But so he was married to someone in Alaska.

And how many times? Wait, no, I'm sorry. He was married to someone in Hawaii.
Yeah.

He was married to her. He was married to my mom.
He was with your mom. And then his life partner that he was with while he was when he passed away.

Do you think our names are the way that they are because he was still in love with his first wife?

Because she was Hawaiian. Yeah.

Yeah, no, that's such a, that's such.

I bet you he was in love with his ex-wife. Or I guess she would have been before my mom and before yours, obviously.

See, and that makes me think like he, I know he wasn't incapable of love because I felt love from him whenever you did. I did.
I felt a lot of love from him whenever, like,

I was around him because

he might not have treated my mom well. I didn't see that, though.
You only saw how he treated you. And that was a way that I feel like a dad should have treated someone.

So he was good to you. He was very good to me.
I think he really loved you, too, because he wouldn't have pulled you out of that hospital if he didn't. True.

I think he knew love, but he knew, like, he was really like.

He knew where to put his energy. I don't think, I think he was smart enough to know, to not put his, um, his love into toxic situations.
Kids can't be toxic. They're, kids are born innocent.

For him, I feel like we were innocent.

And

I don't,

I don't know. I think, I think he was, I think we could have had an awesome life with him.
I don't think it would have been, you know.

the picture perfect life because, you know, his situation, he obviously, I don't think he valued himself because if he did he would have tried harder i would agree with that because i mean he he knew it well enough to go get two degrees yeah he had two degrees he joined the military but and he was just four years and out but it i just i guess i can't understand the complacency but some people are just complacent at the point that you're both of your kids are taken from you and you don't have them anymore but i just don't think he thought he deserved it anything after after us i feel like he he gave up he gave up i mean wouldn't you yeah just like be why would you?

Why would why would you keep going at that point? You're like, what am I supposed to do? Keep putting, like, pouring all of my self into this and getting nothing in return. Like, I get it now.

And I don't fault our dad for it at all because, like, I sort of understand his perspective.

I just wish that, you know, like today, I forgot my makeup and we're in Philly and I forgot my makeup and we're sharing makeup.

Like, we've, we should have been sharing makeup this whole time for the past 15 years. We should have been sharing makeup and talking and calling each other.

And I should have been flying out when you had Blakely. Like, that should have been our relationship from day one.
But instead, I meet her when she's, what, seven years old?

Well, you first met her at nine months at my mom's funeral. Right, right.
But

officially, like officially, yeah, six. Six years old.
And it's so, it's so interesting to me, too, because, and I said this to Kristen and Alessandra.

I obviously, I know I met her at your mom's funeral, but she was a baby. Yeah.
So it was just in different circumstances, of course. But

like when I finally met her and, you know, she's six and just runs up to me. It was just like an instinctual, I could cry thinking about it, like

an instinctual love for her right away

that I can't describe to other people. And like, maybe that other people know, but I have never known an instinctual love for another child.
I don't really like kids. So, um,

like just the first day ever meeting her, you know, when she's older, yeah. Like this instinctual love for my niece.

And like, it's not fair that the adults couldn't get their shit together enough for us to have had a relationship far before we started it.

Well, that's the thing: is like, I don't, I think that that experience

with our father, you know, and everything, I think it bled into us because look what we did.

We, we, we did the same toxic behavior as we stopped talking to each other for five years because we couldn't get our shit together. Yeah, can we talk about that for a second, too? Um,

I don't, I feel like I remember people posting about us not talking. Michaela was supposed to visit Delaware at some point and she got bit by a dog.
Yeah.

And you texted me about it. And I was upset that you couldn't come, but it was like not really, it wasn't like overall a big deal, right? But

MTV had asked me to film a scene with somebody about it. And you thought I was laughing at you.
No, I actually had people in my ear texting me, egging me on. I wasn't laughing about you.

What I was laughing at. I wouldn't have been offended if you were.
No, but it wasn't that.

Like I was more more uncomfortable with the fact that, like, they made me do this FaceTime call with him and my, like, my friend was in the basement.

So, it was like, more, like, oh my God, we're doing this fucking FaceTime. This is so awkward.
Like, I was more pissed off about that. Then, I wasn't

annoyed because I was like, obviously, I wanted to see you. I wanted you to come to Delaware.
Also, they wanted to film it.

And so, then, when there's pressure of them wanting to film it, it was like, oh my God, she got bit by a dog. And now I have to film this FaceTime.
It was more like that. And so, we didn't talk.

And then I remember there was something when you reached out and we argued about like

Blakely had hives or something. Yeah.
Like, didn't follow up to check up on her or something. And so, yeah, it was just, I was in such a bad thing.
So was I, though.

Yeah, but, and that's the thing is, I think, like, so I was grieving my mom, and I'm really bad about disassociating. And when I disassociate, I turn extremely cold.
I burn relationships.

Um, we have that in common. Yeah, my engagement almost didn't happen because of it.
Like, I was that cold. Um, and it wasn't intentional.
I just don't know how to grieve properly.

My first instinct is to disassociate. And

I kind of blame myself because I blame myself too.

No, no, because you tried to let it go. That's the thing.
You, you literally, I remember you telling me multiple times, let's just agree to disagree. I said, no, I'm not going to do that.

I'm not going to do that. That sounds like me though.
So I would have been like, if it was the opposite, I would have done the same thing.

But then that's where I kind of falled it because if I, if we could not have gotten our shit together, like if we could have, we could have been involved in every single,

every single, like child. Obviously, I met Lincoln, I met

Elliot, and

I think after that, we just stopped talking. Have you met Lux? No.
He's crazy, but you'll love him.

There was just something, I don't know, I think because we were just both triggered.

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What should have been a normal fight? Yeah. It blew up.
It blew up and we just, it was easier to just completely disassociate and not talk because we didn't grow up together anyway.

So it was like, it's not like you're in my life every single day. I'm not in your life every single day.

But I think both of us were going like, cause I stopped being friends with, I want to say that was the same year I stopped being friends with Becky. I think I was.
Yeah, no, it was the same year.

so i was not in a good place mentally so i'm not blameless like i wholeheartedly had a hand like i didn't check up on you guys i never after you had blakely after your mom died i don't feel like i did a good job as a sister in general i don't i don't i don't think after our dad died i did a good job of checking on you honestly our dad yeah i didn't have a relationship with that man i know but i never even asked you how you felt because you know what what did you you said are you okay after he passed away i said you said are you okay i said

Is it bad that I don't feel anything at all? You're like, No, I feel like that's valid. No, but I, but that's the thing.

Even if it, even if you feel the same way, I still should have reached out to you about it too. Yeah, but I don't, I

know, like, it that's I just have a lot of blame because I was the one that was like, No, absolutely not. I am not going to agree to disagree.
I'm not doing that.

So, I blame that on me. And

I don't know. I feel bad because I really think that we could have gotten, I think we're closer now than we were before.
Yeah.

But I think that's because we both grew up so much within the five-year period. Yeah.
Like completely different people. And

I don't know. I think I was just angry at the time.
Why did we, how did we reconnect?

I reached out to you for your birthday. And I think on my birthday,

you might have tried to.

Tell me I missed you or something. And then you're like, oh, I didn't see this message.
But I never even tried messaging you before because I thought you had me blocked on everything.

Cause you were like, I changed my phone number. Well, no, but you were like, you told me that you were going to block me.

Christina did it back. Like, of course you did.
So I thought, so I didn't even. You just told me you were going to block me.
And I probably did for like a day. Yeah.
So I just was like, okay.

I don't remember. I don't remember some of that.
I believe you because my memory is not great.

I definitely remember reaching out to you for something. I think on my birthday.
And I saw the message from you, but I had not seen it first. Oh, I know.
I know.

Cause you were like, oh, I didn't see this before.

Everything's fine. I think at that time, you just didn't want to talk about the situation.
I mean, I don't love talking about it because we have to admit that we were fucked up. Yeah.

So I don't, but it's just like,

I don't know. And I wish that there was a world where I could move to Texas and we could just be sisters and have normal sister relationships.

I would that have, I feel like that could go one of two ways. Like,

we do have we have i feel like the same personalities but also

different very different like in certain aspects so it's like it would have either made us hate each other true which obviously that's just siblings or you know i think we could have been like best friends but i feel like on the path we're going now i feel like it looks really good really optimistic yeah um

I don't see that happening again. It's so weird for me.

Like, I don't ever call you michaela i say my sister because i do so never been able to say that my whole life yeah i'm gonna cry again and i didn't

like i've never i was never able to say that like i lied about it when i was like seven but i always wanted a sibling i owe it yeah and so like being able to say my sister and like actually have a relationship with you means something to me and so i it's it's never like oh that's my michaela's or like oh i'm gonna call michaela it's like my sister i keep saying my sister just to hear myself say my sister well and that's why it kind of bothers me whenever people try to say that i'm want to be in your life for the wrong intentions i don't care if even if those were your intentions i was like seeking you out and trying to have a relationship well that but that's obviously not me i've like i don't ask for that part of your life i ask for what people don't see my our whole side of the family in texas

well like we'll say raymond's whole side

has never

actually my mom's side either neither one i don't have the same experience where like family members reach out to you for it. Never.
On my mom's side or my dad's side.

And I don't know if that's like a true testament to like the people that are part of my actual family. But

I mean, even the Irwins on my mom's side, like never, ever, ever have reached out just to because I'm their cousin. All of a sudden you're reaching out because I'm on TV.
They never did that.

My dad's family never did that. Like our dad's family never did that.
The only people that do it is like friends.

Yeah, you should evaluate those friends. But

Kristen will,

she's like, I told you about that one. Well, I just think that whenever you are around people that actually truly care about you, they aren't going to do that.

And I think the people that are, like, if someone, if you're friends with someone that initially knew you only as the person on TV or the person on the podcast, in my opinion, I wouldn't even give that time a day.

I'm an energy person and that is bad energy to me. But as fucked up as Raymond, like, and I say fucked up, but what I mean is like he sort of just barely got by.
Yeah.

Never once did he ever reach out and ask me for anything. And he cared about you.
Like that's a, I'm literally, like, if someone cares about you, they're not going to ask

from you to better themselves. They will work on their relationship with you.
They don't want material things.

There's a reason why I've never asked you for anything. I don't want that.
I don't care about that. I don't care about the persona that you have.
for other people. I don't care.

Like I think that you're a really good person. That that's what I want to show.

Well, I, I, well, that's the thing is, people don't think, people

think of you as this

person on TV that was extremely edited, which is a big reason why I didn't even watch it. Really? Yeah.
Because you knew it was edited. Yeah.

Every, like, whenever we first met, like, that, the person on TV was not the person I saw. It's so interesting.
And I'm not saying that you were fake. I'm saying the editing was.

Yeah. I mean, which it's reality TV.
It's got to be interesting. but like

I don't, I think that maybe our side,

I don't know, I don't think

your success or anything is on anybody's mind.

I don't even tell people, like, I tell people that you're my sister, but I don't tell them, hey, it's the girl from Team Mom, it's the girl from the podcast. I do not disclose that unless you ask.

Did your brother know when I found him online?

Probably,

probably, I don't know. I wish, do you remember what friend it was that I reached out to? Yeah.
What's his name? Just his first name? Yeah. Stephen.

If I remember correctly, and if you ever talk to him, are they still friends? Yeah. If you ever talk to him again, will you ask him?

Because I feel like, I don't know if I'm making up this part or if it really happened. Like, I'm pretty sure he messaged back and said that he was going to talk to Spencer.
In my space, right?

I'm pretty sure. Yeah.
And he basically was like, I'm going to talk to Spencer.

He's a really nice person. Okay.
But I don't know if I made that part up. No, you don't.
You know, like, what is it called? Repressed memory when someone like basically plants.

That's like all my, that's all my memories. So I'm like, I don't want to say that for sure happen.
No, I see it happen. He's a very good person.
Like he is.

Like he basically, without fully saying it, he was like, I'm not promising you anything kind of deal. Yeah.
No, that sounds like him. Okay.
So that probably happened then.

What's also interesting to me is like my mom's side of the family had never mentioned you. And it was like, it was always

not spoken about. Like I didn't speak to other family members about my dad until I was an adult, but I'm just glad that we're here.
And I, I just met Blakely for the first time

when she wasn't a baby. A couple of months ago, yeah.
Yeah. But, like, love her so much.
I would take her as my own, like, literally. And it's so weird because it's like instinctual.
Yeah.

I think her and Lux would be beautiful. Oh, her and Lux and Creed too.
Yeah, for sure. Her and Valley will have a good time.
Oh, she would love it.

And she was mad that initially that she didn't have a sister. Oh, well, because my sister's pregnant with a boy,

And that's so exciting. So, but what if you have the baby on your birthday? I'd be ecstatic.
I would? I would. Because we need more tourists in this.
Blakely and I are both March babies.

And then you and baby boy will be April babies. Yeah.
And I don't have any kids born in March or April. So I think now we have something every month.
Probably. Except for

May, right? May and December. But every other month have birthdays, I think.
No, Carp. Well, my husband is December.

So before we move on to this game that I have no idea what it is, I want to talk about the DNA situation that we uncovered, if you will.

Before

our dad died, before we even knew he was sick, I took a DNA test on ancestry DNA and I also took a 23-in-me. And then I told Michaela, you took ancestry.
Ancestry, yeah. And then our dad's,

who we found out to be half-sister, took ancestry DNA as well. Learned that her and my dad do not share the same father.

Through this, we learned that our last name should have been Morris, M-O-R-R-I-S.

I believe it was just one S.

And the story is that,

and this is all alleged. So, if my family on my dad's side is listening to this, I'm trying not to ruffle feathers, but like, this is also my story and Michaela's story.

Allegedly, Grandma Sylvia couldn't get pregnant,

found Thomas Morris.

And I'll just read the story. Hi, Michaela.
I don't recognize the man in the picture. I kind of suspect my uncle could possibly be your dad's father.

I looked at your DNA numbers and percentage and was very close to another woman's DNA that also had an adopted dad.

And she knew my uncle's name, but was just trying to locate him and confirm he was her bio. Wait.
So does that mean that's a sibling? No, no, no. It's an aunt, right? It's my dad's sibling.

Yeah, I would think it would be an aunt, yeah. So he had other siblings.
I wouldn't be surprised. I mean, I didn't look at the updated DNA stuff, though.

My uncle was in between marriages when your dad was born. And my dad told me that my uncle was seeing a woman and said her husband could not have kids and she wanted to have a baby.

So it's a possibility that our grandmother couldn't get pregnant. And this man got her pregnant.
And then she went back to her ex-husband at that time.

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according to our aunt Susie she was never in Houston which I find it hard to believe she could have also just got the city wrong the city could have just but it's also like come on

everybody has been to Houston at one point if you live in Texas no truly so

what what if what if she just didn't tell her husband you know

Anybody could have said Houston just to say Houston, but also this woman, because it's like a third-hand story, it is very possible that it was Waco or Dallas or Fort Worth and she just got the city wrong.

Like, I mean, I could tell you right now, my mom told me my dad was from Arlington, Texas, my whole life.

She was right. It was Texas, but maybe the city was wrong.
You know what I mean? But it's still kind of close, though. Yeah.
So, like, to me, the location is less important, but.

That's like a pretty damning story right there, though. To me, this is the most logical.
Some variation of this because

our grandfather, like whom our dad thought was his dad, he was named after. So it's Raymond Guy and Raymond Glenn, our dad being Raymond Glenn.

Raymond Glenn also had a brother named Derek who messaged me. And Derek

is not their biological father, is not their biological brother. He was adopted by Raymond Guy, but it was really his wife's

child's child. So I think it was either his step-grandson or his stepson.
Like it was just like a weird... Derek is not Raymond Guy's son, but he grew up thinking he was our dad's brother.

I'm just really kind of confused of like

is

our aunt Susie

is Raymond her dad? She says yes. Okay, how if he could not have kids? Well, that's why she's saying that that's a lie because she's saying he obviously could have kids since she was one of the kids.

Okay, but if he did that with, if she did that with our dad,

why would not and they were only a year apart. Like Raymond and our aunt were in the same grade.

I just find that a little hard to believe because that's where I've been very confused. Because

if you have,

like, I know sometimes, like,

fertility issues come from, like, what you're eating, how, like, what vitamins you're taking. Like, simple things can fix it.
I know for a fact. And, um,

I don't think it's this case.

She thinks that our grandmother was raped.

I,

I personally don't believe that. I don't either because

back then we couldn't, women could not have their own bank accounts, right?

They did not, I doubt she drove. I doubt she had her own car.
What? This was in the

50s. Yeah, 50s?

And the story was that she was married to Raymond Guy, got to go to the bottom. Everything had to be approved by the man.
So we had gotten married, divorced, and then remarried.

I personally, it's my opinion that she wasn't raped, but she said that Raymond Guy told her that her mom was raped, and that's how she got it. It might have been the story that made him feel better.

That's where I'm at. I'm at the point where grandma wanted a child.

Pop-up couldn't give it to her. But he probably wanted it.
He stepped out. No doubt.

She stepped out and all of a sudden, pregnant. Yeah, that actually happened a lot.
A lot. And some people did like two, three times.

I don't know if it was like Ancestor Boyfriend.

The story that I got from that same woman on Ancestry was that he was a willing participant to give her a child and I believe that because it was her first child it wasn't like it was her second or third or fourth you know what I mean like it just all of the pieces are not adding up but unfortunately Thomas Morris is also dead so I can't there's no way to verify um from him what his retelling is but we do know that that is biologically our grandfather.

Do you have the same ancestry like people like matches pop up on ancestry that you do 23andMe? Like, no.

Is there there more on 23andMe um I have found obviously I don't have that 23andMe a lot of my mom's side is on 23andMe and a lot of my dad's side is on ancestry which is really interesting but I would say for you to do 23andMe anyway because there's like a health component to it

but it's really upsetting to me because it's like the proof is in the pudding. Like we can lay it all out and like some people choose not to believe it.
And that's what's really frustrating.

It's like, I know that if she hears this, she's going to be upset, but it's also like, that's our story. Like that is what happened to us.

And so, like, I could understand why it would be upsetting because, like, she has her own beliefs. And I'm not knocking her for it.

Sometimes you just have to let them believe what they want to believe so that they're happy. Like, I don't know.
I shouldn't dissuade

you from letting other people know the truth too. Right.
Like, with Raymond. I would have wanted to know.
But also, maybe he wouldn't have died at peace though, either.

So that was like the other thing where it's like he maybe was at peace with us being there. Yeah.
And so he felt comfortable enough to let go.

Had we dropped that bomb on him and he would have died with no peace like that would have also not been great so it's like hard either way for sure um okay let's play this game i don't know what it is so we're just gonna wing it together it's called we're not really strangers okay so step one perception okay do i seem like a morning person or a night owl why

can i say both yeah

I just like, I know that you have to be up because you have kids and that's just how it works. But I feel like you're going to go to bed at like nine o'clock.

I don't like to stay up late, and I also don't like to wake up early. Yeah, I like to drag me as either.
I like to go to bed early and wake up late. I consider you a noon person.
Yes, that is me.

For you, I feel like you're more of a night owl. Yeah, for sure.
Are you really?

I wonder why. Like, you don't mind staying up, but do you get up easily in the morning? No, you're not a morning person.
My husband has to call me to wake me up.

And he, um, if he's home because he works nights. Yeah.
If he's home, he has to wake me up because he knows I'm going to press news. Oh, yeah.
I'm going to press news at least three times. Yeah.

Well, I have like 10 alarms. So.
Do you, do I remind you of anyone? No. You remind me of me.
Well, yeah. That's what I was.

Yeah. But like, of anybody else? No.
No, absolutely. Like, there's nobody like you.
No, absolutely not. I think you're the nicer version of me.

I'm nicer than you. I would argue that.
I mean, I can be nice, don't get me wrong, but I think I hit

confrontation head-on. Yeah, and I don't.
And you're just nice about it. I don't like confrontation.
My sister will just say exactly. You're like, you know what? I take that back.

If there's one person that you remind me of, it's Sterling. Okay.
Because Sterling, if she doesn't like something, she's saying it right now. She's way more vocal than me, though.
Okay.

Not way more vocal. Which is so funny.

Michaela has known Sterling for many, many years. 2011 is when we met.
I met her in 2013. Okay.
So I've known you almost as long as I've known her.

She will say exactly what she to anyone. And she doesn't sugarcoat it either.
No, she does not. What you see is what you get.
Yes. So I sort of see that in you with the confrontation thing.

Not that she's like trying to start confrontation. Yeah, I don't either.

But I'm not afraid of it. Like, for sure.
If you could have it your way, who would you be with? Where would you be? And what would you be doing? In what kind of way? I have no idea.

I'm thinking this might be for lovers. Well, I have a husband.
Okay.

So

hold on. I'll pick a different one.
I'll pick a different one. Are you lying to yourself about anything? I think I lied to myself for a long time that I was nice.

Okay, I'm not. I'm not mean,

but I can be mean.

But like, I'm not as nice as I thought I was. Okay.

And evidently it's not just one person told me that. So.
I'm the opposite. I think I'm nicer than I like to believe that I am.
I thought you were nice. No, but I thought I was a lot meaner.

I thought I was nicer. So.

Yeah. Okay.
The level three is reflection.

What am I most qualified to give advice about?

I think you're really good, like a good mom. So I think parenting advice, you're.

I don't. I don't know.
Some people would disagree, but

I think you would be good to give advice on

you're like Kristen in the sense that you, your husband works nights. You could give good advice on how to navigate having your partner work nights, raising a child.

And also, honestly, like family dynamics, like you could give advice, like some of your

not, I guess not perception, like some of your ideas of

how to handle the grief and loss of our dad when we didn't really have a relationship with him, I think is helpful. So I think you could give advice.

Well, I can separate separate like logic from emotion really well. Like compartmentalize.
Oh, 100%. But no, I think you

would be like the first person. I think I've asked you for parenting advice before.
Like you would be my first person to go to for parenting advice. Oh, thank you.
Thanks.

What is a lesson you will take away from this conversation? We've kind of unpacked a lot here.

I feel like one hour was not enough. I think the moral of, you know, I think following this conversation, we need to keep our shit together for the sake of our kids.

And like, cause I want our kids to have a relationship. I want our kids to think about when they go away to college, if they choose to go to college or like getting a job.

Like, oh, my cousin goes here. Like, I can't.
Or like, when can we see them? Yeah. Or like planning family vacations.
Cause I mean, think about it. Blakely is right in between Lux and Creed.
Yeah.

And then Rio and. baby boy are only going to be three years apart.
And then the twins and Rio are only two years apart. So to to me, like they could be in college together.

We could go on family trips together. Like I think that is the biggest takeaway is like

across the board, no matter what your family situation looks like, you have to put your

all of your personal feelings aside for the kids. Yeah.
I mean, I think it affected us in both like parent-wise and I think our relationship at first. Yeah.

And I think that's the last thing I want for her. Yeah.
No, our kids should be growing up like siblings. They're first cousins.
Oh, yeah.

And it's like, she wants, she wants everything to do with her cousin that she met one time in Houston. And so she's, I know she's going to be a family kid.

So I know the minute that she meets the twins and or the triplets, I should say. Yes, I call them the triplets.

She's going to be like glue. Like she's going to want to see them all the time.
And I

don't want to ever tell her no. I just want to be like, okay, well, let's find a time.
Right. Like, it's not no.
It's just like, we have to plan it. But that, that's on us then.
Yes.

You know, it's not just like, oh, we'll figure figure it out and then never talk about it. No, I agree.
I'm disagreeing with it, like me coming here. Yeah.
And I'm like,

yeah. Well, I already told, I know you haven't met her, but my assistant, Rebecca, was it you or was it my, it might have been both of you guys.

I literally texted them and I said, I need to figure out when you're due because I need to come down to help you with the baby and I can take Blakely out to do something so you have one less thing to worry about or I could take the baby while you sleep.

Like I was literally texting her like, I need to figure out a time to go, even if it's in the summer, a couple months after he's born, so that you can go on a date with your husband and I can stay with the kids, or like you can go sleep, whatever.

Like, that's what sisters are supposed to do. Yeah, for sure.
And we didn't get that the first time around. Well, and I think that also we don't, like, I think

I don't want to speak for you, but like, I know in my situation, like now, I don't have hardly any

like

they say it takes a village. I feel like I don't have that much of a village.
You know, my mom passed.

Obviously, Raymond wasn't in our lives um my brother they got three kids on their their own you know it's like i never like to ask for help

and i don't know if it's just because like we come i come from a very like a family where

they're just you're expected to do great things

but i just don't ask for help and i think that has a lot to do with like

why maybe we i know that was your uh whenever we had that fight, like that was a conversation, like you

hate it that we never saw each other. It's just like, I don't,

I, it's hard for me to be like, hey, let's meet, find a time. Cause for me, that's like asking for help.

I know it's not, but it's like, it's the same concept for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, I get that. I, there, for a long time, I felt like I didn't have like a consistent village.

Like, Kristen was like my village for 10 years, like, literally just her.

Because it felt like it was just like a revolving door for a long time, like of people who it was take, take, take, take, take. And so it didn't feel like a village in a real way.

Bone was a big person that was a village for me. Her sister would be kind of in and out.
But like

now I feel like I have a real village and I'm sure that they would extend that to you. So like if there was ever a time where you like, were like, I just need help, like we'll rally.
Yeah.

And I feel like my brother's

wife, my sister-in-law, like her family is kind of taking you in and like taking you under their wing. Yeah, which is nice.

We don't, we don't go anywhere for like Thanksgiving or Christmas unless they invite us. And we don't either.
Yeah.

Like we're, Kristen invited us to her house, but we were like, we don't even know where to go. I don't have any of the kids.
Yeah, there was one time like I spent it with one of my friends.

I was, I think last Thanksgiving or the Thanksgiving before that, I was in Texas. Yeah.
I went to Sterling's for Thanksgiving twice. And it was just like this, I don't know.

But we could be each other's village. Well, for sure.
I mean, I've spent

Thanksgiving before. Well, I spent Thanksgiving.
Yeah. I think that was like the first time I came up here.
Wait, did you meet my mom's family then?

Yeah.

That all fell apart. That all fell apart.
They all have kids.

The twins have kids and one of the twins had twins and you met all of them, but I don't have my kids on the same year at the same time as they do.

So it's like, why am I going to drive four hours, four and a half hours up here? And the kids can't even get together. Yeah, it was a long drive.
I remember.

And it was, it's even longer now because at that time we were still in Pennsylvania.

So,

but yeah, moral of the story is get your fucking shit together so the kids can have a life together that they deserve. And I promise you, they do not give a fuck about the parents' drama.

Like, I would not have given one single fuck if both of our moms hated our dad. As long as we got to have a relationship, I would not give a fuck.
That's what happens. You have to put your kids first.

No doubt. So, where can people find you? I have an Instagram.

That's about it. Michaela Cersei.

And

that's it. Yeah.
Well, thanks for coming on Barely Famous. Thank you.
Yeah. See ya.
Bye.

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