Part Two: P. Diddy: A Life in Crimes

Speaker 1 Coal Zone Media.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 hear ye, hear ye.

Speaker 2 The Court of Bastards is now in session. The Honorable Judge Robert Evans presiding.
And that's not a bit. It's not.
I'm making an announcement here. Well, I don't think I told you this yet.

Speaker 2 I have been sworn in as a judge. I am legally a United States municipal judge for the state of New Mexico.

Speaker 1 This is not a, This is not a bit of a

Speaker 1 bit, actually. It's not a bit.
It's not a bit. It's not a bit.
And he's brought it up.

Speaker 3 I think he's told me this same piece of information five underground.

Speaker 2 I have the paperwork. I am now legally the honorable Robert Evans for the rest of my life.
I can marry people, not just officiate like some of you folks. I can witness documents.
I could hear cases.

Speaker 2 I don't think anyone's going to give me any, but I am a judge now in New Mexico. And, you know.

Speaker 1 How does one become a judge in New Mexico?

Speaker 2 You get sworn in by another judge. It works, actually.

Speaker 1 I've just, like, how did you, do you just, like, call them? And

Speaker 1 was there an online application?

Speaker 2 Let's call them a fan. I mean, definitely they are a fan.
A wonderful person whose name I'm not going to be using.

Speaker 1 And they were like, hey, bro, did you know that it's no work to become a judge?

Speaker 2 You know, it's incredibly easy. Well, it's apparently, I didn't know this either.
Becoming a judge works exactly like being a vampire, an interview with a vampire.

Speaker 1 You can't come in if somebody invites you.

Speaker 2 You can get made a judge by a bigger judge, but you cannot necessarily make other people judges, right?

Speaker 2 You have to drink a certain amount of blood.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you got to keep the pyramid at a certain angle or else it gets too wide.

Speaker 2 Again, if I'm remembering interview with a vampire right, I am now going to live in France and then burn down a theater.

Speaker 1 Take on an eight-year-old child as you were. Yes, take on an eight-year-old child.

Speaker 1 Do the whole

Speaker 1 interview. I'm not really sure what that was.
I'm very confused still about what she was in that movie.

Speaker 2 Oh, you got to try the new TV show, Will. It's wonderful.

Speaker 1 Oh, is it? I kind of, I saw that it existed, but I kind of put it in the same like, you know, when they made the Archie comic into a

Speaker 1 drama, what's it called? Riverdale?

Speaker 1 Like, I kind of...

Speaker 1 So bad. I kind of assumed it was something like that where they just like, or like the fresh prince, they turned that into a fucking drama or whatever.

Speaker 1 Like, I kind of thought it was like something like that where it was just like real teeny, like

Speaker 1 Buffy the Vampire type shit.

Speaker 2 No, I can confidently say as a United States judge,

Speaker 2 that show is good.

Speaker 2 I do power.

Speaker 2 I'm going to go do a Blood Meridian after this.

Speaker 1 Jesus Christ.

Speaker 2 Call me the judge.

Speaker 2 Use my own urine to make gunpowder. It's going to be incredible, folks.
Amazing. But my first act as judge is to sit down with my buddy, the Grammy Award-winning Greasy Will, and judge P.
Diddy.

Speaker 2 And this will be legally binding. Whatever I say, the courts have to do if I understand being a judge right.
And I don't think I do.

Speaker 1 Can I be the middle of the defense and the prosecutor? Like, I don't know. I want to be both.
Can I be both? Yeah, you could absolutely be both.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. Whatever is funnier in the moment.

Speaker 1 A guest of behind the bastards, like primary responsibility is to be a bit of both of these things, like cheering you on for your incredible journalistic integrity and also correcting your bad pronunciation

Speaker 1 words.

Speaker 1 George Ash, I honestly forget what we were saying. George C.
I have no idea. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Not my job as a judge to know how to pronounce R ⁇ D duos.

Speaker 1 Jordan K.

Speaker 1 Jordan. Jordan K.

Speaker 1 You know what?

Speaker 2 I sentence you to come up with a different fucking name. I'm glad this intro was fun because what we're going to talk about after this cold open, not fun at all.

Speaker 4 This isn't iHeart Podcast.

Speaker 5 Hey guys, it's Aaron Andrews from Calm Down with Erin and Carissa. So as a sideline reporter, game day is extra busy for me, but I know it can be busy for parents everywhere.

Speaker 5 You're juggling snacks, nap time, and everything else.

Speaker 5 Well, Gerber can help create a more parent-friendly game day because they have the most clean label project certifications of any baby food brand.

Speaker 5 So you can feel good about what you're feeding your little ones. I mean, Mac loves them.
You can't go wrong with the little crunchies.

Speaker 5 You just put him in a little bag or you put him in a little container and he's good to go. Make sure to pick up your little one's favorite Gerber products at a store near you.

Speaker 6 Hey, this is Sarah.

Speaker 7 Look, I'm standing out front of AMPM right now and well, you're sweet and all, but I found something more fulfilling, even kind of cheesy, but I like it.

Speaker 6 Sure, you met some of my dietary needs, but they've just got it all.

Speaker 1 So farewell, oatmeal.

Speaker 6 So long, you strange soggy.

Speaker 8 Break up with planned breakfast and taste AMPM's bacon, egg, and cheese biscuit made with K-tree eggs, smoked bacon, and melty cheese on a buttery biscuit. AMPM, too much good stuff.

Speaker 10 A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers.

Speaker 9 But it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught.

Speaker 13 The answers were there, hidden in plain sight. So why did it take so long to catch him?

Speaker 14 I'm Josh Zeman, and this is Monster, Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer.

Speaker 12 The investigation into the most notorious killer in New York since the son of Sam. Available now.

Speaker 15 Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 17 A new true crime podcast from Tenderfoot TV in the city of Mons in Belgium. Women began to go missing.

Speaker 17 It was only after their dismembered remains began turning up in various places that residents realized a sadistic serial killer was lurking among them. The murders have never been solved.

Speaker 17 Three decades later, we've unearthed new evidence. Le Monstre, Season 2, is available now.
Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 18 I'm Cheryl McCollum, host of the podcast Zone 7.

Speaker 19 Zone 7 ain't a place. It's a way of life.

Speaker 20 Now, this ain't just any old podcast, honey.

Speaker 25 We're going to be talking to family members of victims, detectives, prosecutors, and some nationally recognized experts that I have called on over the years to help me work these difficult cases.

Speaker 21 I've worked hundreds of cold cases you've heard of and thousands you haven't.

Speaker 27 We started this podcast to teach the importance of teamwork in solving these crazy crimes.

Speaker 26 Come join us in learning from detectives, prosecutors, authors, canine handlers, forensic experts, and most importantly, victims' family members.

Speaker 23 Come be a part of my Zone 7 while building yours.

Speaker 32 Listen to Zone 7 with Cheryl McCollum on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.

Speaker 2 We're back and things are about to get horrible.

Speaker 2 So, 1991, the same year that he got all of those fucking people killed, is the year in which Joy J-O-I Dickerson Neal, one of those hyphenated last names, claims that Sean drugged and raped her.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I know. Sorry.
There was no way to.

Speaker 1 I came out swinging for the fences.

Speaker 2 That's why I opened

Speaker 1 something something funny. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Because it's going to get, it's just, it's, I mean, this is going to be horrible, folks. Oh, sorry.
What year was this?

Speaker 1 91.

Speaker 2 Same year he got nine people killed in a crush. Okay.
So this is the earliest. I don't know that this is the first person that Sean drugs and assaults or assaults, period.

Speaker 2 But this is the earliest allegation so far against Diddy. That may have changed by the time these episodes drop.
Shit is coming out rapidly. Every day.
It is one of the most serious.

Speaker 2 She was a college student at the time. Sean was an up-and-coming music producer who hosted legendary parties.

Speaker 2 He put her in one of his music videos, and then while they were doing that, he asked her out on a date, which is, you know, classic story.

Speaker 1 Classic story. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
This is why the

Speaker 1 prototype exists. This is why people know that this is a thing.
Yeah. It's just the classic producer's story.

Speaker 2 And it's fucked up because, like, obviously, this is the way a lot of people get assaulted. It is also legitimately how a lot of people's careers begin.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, like both of, and honestly, sometimes both happen, right? Like, that's yes, which is why it's going to keep happening.

Speaker 1 The protest story is exactly that. It's literally, yeah, let me assault you, and you get a job, and you get a job,

Speaker 2 yeah, you can get into this fucking, you know.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's you know, and as this progresses on, we're going to see a lot of that where it's like people who go along with it make it, and when they stop going along with it, they disappear, right?

Speaker 2 You know, right, yes, yes, you know. So, after dinner, Sean pushes Joy to stay out with him.
She wants to go home, and he's like, No, no, no, let's go. And he takes her her to a recording studio.

Speaker 2 She has a drink at some point, I think, on the drive over, and she likes can't get out of the car because she's so fucked up by the time they get there.

Speaker 2 Not from the drink, but from the fact that the drink has been drugged. Obviously, drug.

Speaker 2 I'm guessing just from her description, it sounds like GHB, but could have been a couple of things.

Speaker 1 Pretty fast-acting. Yes.
Yes. In a car drive across the, you know, it's like, that's not, that's not a long thing.

Speaker 2 Nope, nope, nope. Combs takes her to a separate location and he sexually assaults her.
He films the rape.

Speaker 1 Naturally, because why not keep evidence?

Speaker 2 Why not keep it? Well, he films it to use as like revenge porn against her, right? Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 So this is like, this is where he starts to get into this, uh, the black music. He's doing this from the jump.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. The Epstein, if you will.

Speaker 2 Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 And Dickerson actually finds out that he's videotaped it because a male friend of hers comes to her and is like, hey, man, I was just hanging out with Sean and he showed us a video of himself having sex with you.

Speaker 2 And like, you don't really look like you're conscious. Right.
So that's how she finds out about it.

Speaker 1 Like he shares, he shows this to a number of people god that is just fucking awful it's hideous and it's one of those things wait so so wait so this is 91 right 91

Speaker 1 yeah what what did he have was a camcorder he had like a camcorder it must have been like a camcorder yeah like that it was not like it was a hidden situation or

Speaker 1 you're right like because they're there's like there's like an element of like decisions that he had to make like he had to set this up and plan this like this wasn't you know yeah yeah he had to set this up he had to plan this he spent a lot of money like it's not cheap to have Right.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
A camera in 91 was very expensive. You weren't just buying one cheap.

Speaker 2 And that's probably a big part of, in addition to just wanting to do in the first place, why she's drugged, right? Is so that he can set up and do all this, you know? Right. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's not an easy process to use. It's not like now where you just push a button or whatever on your phone.
You got to set this, get lighting and shit. Like it's like.
Camcorders were not just like...

Speaker 2 Just laying around.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And it's also, I want to note now, if you're very familiar with this case, you're going to note, oh, he's not bringing up everyone. I can't.

Speaker 2 There's not enough time to talk about every single person who has made allegations. I'm going to go through enough that you understand what he does.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. At this point, it's literally like dozens and dozens of people.
Like there's so many people that they've started filing class actions against him.

Speaker 2 It's the kind of thing where I think, and we'll never know how many people it was in total, but I would be shocked if the total number of victims, one way or the other, aren't in the hundreds.

Speaker 2 You know, there's different levels of victim. There's some people that it's...

Speaker 1 Astonishing. There's Genghis Khan levels of.

Speaker 2 Yeah, there's some people who are like, he coerced me, but like, I did say yes. There's some people who were like, I got drugged, but he didn't rape me, or like, I got out.
So there's like

Speaker 2 degrees of difference from how this happens because there's so many people he's doing this to.

Speaker 1 And there's combinations of every single one of those things too, as well. It's like it is layers upon layers.
You know, you're talking, this is 1991. We're in 2024.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know, this is a 30-year legacy of doing this.

Speaker 1 This is astonishing. And to only have allegations really, because like that's the one thing is like outside of like the industry, his image was pretty clean.

Speaker 1 He had a few little things that was like

Speaker 1 largely the Tupac stuff.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Did he kill Tupac or

Speaker 1 Diddy was involved in like, but it wasn't really like the sexual assault stuff that was like big. It was all like conspiracy, mogul, like, you know, mob type stuff.

Speaker 1 You know, like before this point in history.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 1 You know, right.

Speaker 1 absolutely yeah I mean we knew about or the other stuff existed and was out there but it wasn't like that was what he was known for when it came to that yeah people wouldn't say oh that guy's definitely a piece of shit right yeah it was almost like he committed a bigger crime yeah

Speaker 1 in

Speaker 1 being involved in biggie and tupac

Speaker 2 it's like look if you're an overshadowed if you've got a crime you want to commit you know like maybe maybe you're looking to do a big crypto scam or something just kill tupac first and you'll get away with it for at least 30 years yeah that's that's the diddy story.

Speaker 3 He might be a judge, but don't take legal advice from Robert.

Speaker 1 You should not take legal advice. Do not kill Tupac.
If you find Tupac, let us know.

Speaker 1 Leave him alone. No, leave him alone.
He deserves to hide.

Speaker 2 If he's really alive, he deserves to hide.

Speaker 2 So. In the wake of this horrible sex crime, Sean got his first big opportunity.

Speaker 2 In 1992, he scouted out and signed a rap artist named Christopher Wallace, better known to posterity as Biggie Smalls or the notorious BIG.

Speaker 2 And this is, I've just, I'm not super, you know, knowledgeable about pop culture. I love Biggie.
Biggie was one of the greatest lyricists of his generation.

Speaker 2 Honestly, part of why I love him, I think he's like written better about depression and hating yourself than most people in music ever have.

Speaker 1 Like, I mean, he was great at it. He was Biggie.
He was a huge man. Yeah.
He was fat as hell and he knew he was fat as hell. And he said it all the time.

Speaker 1 And then at one point in his career, he acknowledged, not only am I fat as as hell, but I'm sexy as hell too, because I'm rich as hell. So like, I don't give a shit about what you guys say.

Speaker 1 He was so and he really leaned into it. You know, it's like, you're talking about a dude whose biggest rival at the time was Tupac, who was an athletic looking guy.

Speaker 1 You know, Tupac was ripped, you know, like, and then Biggie's like, yeah, whatever. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I'm 400 pounds.
I don't give a shit. Biggie is.
But he was notoriously. He's notorious for BLG.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Legendary. And he is, this is one of those guys.
We talk about a lot of guys, and especially gangster rap, really massage their reputation. Biggie didn't have to do that.

Speaker 2 He comes from a tough background. His dad abandons the family when he's three, which is interesting that both he and Diddy lose their dads at age three.

Speaker 2 Might have been part of why they like got along. Bonded, yeah.
He grew up near Bedstein in Brooklyn, which at that point in time was a very different neighborhood than it is today. Sure.

Speaker 1 Not filled with hipsters.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. He was raised a Jehovah's Witness and became a drug dealer, selling weed at age 12 and moved up to crack once that epidemic kicked off.
His mother was Jehovah's Witness.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he's raised a Jehovah's Witness. His mom is very strict.
He has to hide what he's doing from her.

Speaker 1 I don't know that I've ever heard that before. That is really interesting because, I mean, like, I knew that he was very much...
There's a lot of stories.

Speaker 1 Even his mom told a lot of stories in the biographies that you've done of him and everything, of like him always having to hide stuff because she was watching. She was on top of what he was doing.

Speaker 1 But I never heard that.

Speaker 2 Well, it also has a big influence on the kind of music he makes because his mom is very strict and the morals that he's raised with conflicts in his new career so he always does he has this feeling that is i think not super common for a lot of people in the same industry that what he's doing is bad right and that influences the kind of music he makes his debut album is called ready to die which includes the song the great song suicidal thoughts which opens with the verse when i die fuck it i want to go to hell because i'm a piece of shit it ain't hard to fucking tell or getting more direct towards his feelings about his mom.

Speaker 2 All my life I've been considered as the worst, lying to my mother, even stealing out her purse. Crime after crime, from drugs to extortion.
I know my mom wish she got a fucking abortion.

Speaker 1 Like,

Speaker 1 fuck, I love Biggie. Yeah.
Yeah. Biggie definitely was very pressing.
He was very like knowledgeable of himself and where he was at. You know, like he, anytime.

Speaker 1 It was actually one of the things that was so fascinating about Biggie's work is that he would often talk about drug dealing as

Speaker 1 the darkness that it was. Like a lot of times, like people were drug dealing, especially now, it's like this glamour possession, right? And for him, it was not.

Speaker 1 It was so much more of like, this is what I had to do to survive.

Speaker 2 I fucking hate myself because of what I had to do.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
I don't like that I had to do these things. I don't like myself because I had to do these things.

Speaker 1 And this is what it's like to grow up in these situations and have, and it was like, it took so much of the glamour out of it. It was dark.
It was twisted and it was dark.

Speaker 1 And it was like, damn, like he's really speaking about the truth of all this. Yeah.
You know, it was not like, look at me. I'm doing this because I'm fucking going to wear gold necklaces and shit.

Speaker 1 Like he was pretty humble, even with like the braggadocious part of it. It was still kind of dark

Speaker 2 in its humility. Absolutely.
I guess what we're getting at is we're both fans of Biggie. Obviously, Biggie's going to be one of the most successful rappers of all time.

Speaker 2 But initially, when he's getting started, his work is seen as too explicit and too based in his extensive life of crimes for MCA Records, who is Uptown's distributor, and that's where Sean works.

Speaker 2 And so Sean's boss, Andre Harrell, lets him go, basically fires him. Although he will claim, Andre says, I didn't fire him because he was bad.
Basically, I said, like, look, man, you're right.

Speaker 2 This guy's going to be a hit. The label won't

Speaker 2 fucking bounce.

Speaker 2 It's time for you to succeed on your own, right? Andre later tells the Wall Street Journal, I didn't want to sit there and be the one confining Puff because the corporation was telling me to do that.

Speaker 2 I'm not built that way. I told Puff he needs to go and create his own opportunity.
You're red hot right now. I'm really letting you go so you can get rich.
And that's exactly what fucking happened.

Speaker 1 So, I mean, yeah, minutes later. Minutes later.

Speaker 1 Minutes later.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it really did. I mean, it was the perfect time for that.
You know, like for the most part, up until Biggie and Pac, you know, a lot of hip-hop was more like happy type shit.

Speaker 1 It was still like, sometimes it was like, had the darkness.

Speaker 1 NWA existed, obviously, but like Biggie and Pac were like really some of the originators of that like dark upbringing culture of rap where it's like, look, we fucking, we hustle to survive and we're doing what we got to do.

Speaker 1 And like talking the real truth about what it was like to be a black man in America at the time. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So it was like, there was something really unique about that moment because it was starting to, you know, we're getting the crack epidemic.

Speaker 1 We're getting, you know, like crime bill that old Biden decided. Sleepy Joe back when he was much

Speaker 1 more awake.

Speaker 1 Yeah, when he was awake. And then it was not better when he was awake.

Speaker 1 Right. So it's like, yeah, exactly.
Like, maybe he should be sleepy because

Speaker 1 he commits some of the biggest crimes against black America that you can imagine.

Speaker 2 I have always been firmly of the stance that the water fountains in the Capitol building need to have Xanax in them. We could solve a lot of problems.

Speaker 1 A lot of problems that way. Bring this down a little bit.
You know what?

Speaker 1 Put Xanax in the water water everywhere. Yeah, yeah.
Actually, yeah, great point.

Speaker 2 Xanax, lithium. Let's just.

Speaker 1 This is like when you're in high school and you think you can solve all the world's problems the first time you take mushrooms and you're like, we need to give everyone mushrooms.

Speaker 1 But actually, maybe that might be.

Speaker 2 Maybe we really do need to put lithium in the water or something.

Speaker 2 So Combs started a label of his own, Bad Boy Records, and it...

Speaker 1 Bad Boy. Bad Boy.
Right? Clink, clink, clink.

Speaker 2 And this is when you hear about the East Coast, West Coast rap feud, it's Bad Boy and Death Row over on, you know, the other side of the country.

Speaker 1 Suge Knight and Death Row. Oh, Suge Knight.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Are we going to Sug Knight? We're going to talk a little bit of Suge Knight.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Because basically, Biggie becomes a massive star pretty much overnight, and that makes Bad Boy a name, and that causes immediate friction with the West Coast premier gangster rap enclave, Suge Knight's Death Row Records.

Speaker 2 If you want to know the kind of man we're talking about, Biggie being a fucking real gangster, Suge is a real gangster. Shuge

Speaker 2 later in life will be shot at two consecutive VMA after parties.

Speaker 1 Yes. Oh my God.
One of my favorite Suge Knight things is the vanilla ice story. Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 By his ankles. He held because just over some dispute.
You know, it's like, it was like... Suge was the real thing.

Speaker 2 I think Shuge didn't want to give him the rights or sell the rights to an ice ice baby or something.

Speaker 1 Right. Yeah.
And you held him off the roof of a building. It's like, this is the type of dude he was.
There's a little side tangent here.

Speaker 1 I don't want to go too far into it, but recently there was this TikTok thing that happened where a guy found a bunch of old death row tapes, two-inch tapes, in a storage locker.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 1 And because I'm in the TikTok zone, I saw this happen and I was like, oh, this is cool. Hey, if you need any help with this, hit me up.

Speaker 1 And it turned out to be a bunch of like MC Hammer death row era stuff. Right.
And it was like

Speaker 1 almost immediately

Speaker 1 once that started coming out, all the comments were like, hey, man,

Speaker 1 like, just be careful. And it ended up going that I found the guy, the engineer that was responsible for that stuff.
And I was like, hey, man, I was like, this guy found all this stuff.

Speaker 1 Your name's on the tapes. And he was like, I don't really want to be involved in that.

Speaker 1 Because of that era of my life was one of the most I've ever felt like

Speaker 1 in danger. Yeah.

Speaker 1 He's like, that was the most I was ever worried about making it through the day was when I worked as an engineer for Death Row.

Speaker 2 There's a lot of things you can say about Suge Knight that are, you know, bastardy, but also Suge Knight's not really, even when he's behind bars, not someone I want to talk too much shit on.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 I'm close enough, man. I don't know, man.

Speaker 1 He's a. We'll say he's a big guy.
He's formidable. He's a formidable.
He's a large person.

Speaker 1 He's a large person, and I would not want to ever have my tiny skull crushed.

Speaker 2 We have lots of respect for you, Shuk.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Do your thing. Don't dangle.
Don't run me over at a burger stand.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So this is primarily a story of the evil that Sean is going to do later in his life. And his involvement in the East Coast-West Coast rap rivalry is like, we know, but also it's murky, right?

Speaker 2 Like there's a degree murk of to like exactly what he was doing.

Speaker 1 Unreliable narratives, as you would say.

Speaker 1 A lot of unreliable narratives.

Speaker 2 Most of the narrators are like talking through wiretaps that the police have, or like interviews the police are conducting.

Speaker 1 So, yes, and

Speaker 1 literally anything you get in all of this stuff is it's unreliable because there's a level of ego that's involved in this stuff.

Speaker 1 There's a level of self-importance and there's a level of also, we were really fucked up doing drugs and alcohol, and I don't actually remember what was going on.

Speaker 1 It's like there's a joke in the audio industry about like literally almost everybody has a, I forgot, like, like the Fleetwood Mac, like, I forgot I made that song story.

Speaker 1 Like, I don't remember even being there and doing that.

Speaker 2 You know,

Speaker 2 I was watching a fucking an old video of them during like the rumors tour, and it's just clear, like, not a one of you.

Speaker 2 You're all playing perfectly, but not one of you could walk 10 feet without falling down.

Speaker 1 Like, you are, you are snowblinding. They had to walk you onto that stage.

Speaker 1 And although it has changed in its direction, there is still a large amount of that in the music industry where it's just like, even on the professional side of things, like the engineer side of things, I once cleaned a console that had been like a soundboard that had been in use since like the early 70s, right?

Speaker 1 It's one of like the oh, Metallica recorded here. Oh, like, you know, that type of thing.
Like every band ever had used this console. And we took off the plates for the faders to clean it.

Speaker 1 And there was actually cocaine and like, and like weed and like shit under the faders.

Speaker 1 Like that much had accumulated over time that it was just like under, and it was like, oh my, and like, you're like, still, like, why am I, why are my hands? Like, why do I feel numb right now?

Speaker 1 Yeah, just walking around. Oh, it's like 70s cocaine.
Yeah. It's like that 70s cocaine.
Combo essence.

Speaker 2 He licked this himself before

Speaker 2 putting it on the back of the truck. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So there is a lot of like unreliable narration that happens in the music industry all the time. It's, there's a lot of drugs, there's a lot of alcohol, and there's a lot of like,

Speaker 1 man, sometimes people tell me my own stories. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, and a lot of when you're talking about the guys who are also literally fighting each other, a lot of head injuries, you know?

Speaker 1 Yes, yeah.

Speaker 2 But the gist of it is there's this huge conflict that comes to central around Tupac, who's the big West Coast star, and Biggie, who is the East Coast star.

Speaker 2 And, you know, Tupac's, you know, with Shuge, and Biggie is with Sean, Diddy.

Speaker 2 So things come to a head on November 30th, 1994, when Tupac Shakur is shot five times in the lobby of Quad Studios in Times Square. This is not when he dies.

Speaker 1 Tupac was a tough guy.

Speaker 1 Real quick, just to rewind in this story of what happened. So the East Coast, West Coast thing, one of the big inciting factors were the Source Awards in New York.

Speaker 1 Probably, I think, a year before Tupac died. Shuge Knight was on stage directly insulting Diddy.
Like, that was like, that was his thing.

Speaker 1 He stood up on stage and he said, hey, if any of y'all want to be out there and not have a producer that is singing and dancing all up in your videos and being like all in trying to make himself part of the show, right?

Speaker 1 Then come over to Death Row. Right.
And this was like a big, this was when Snoop got involved.

Speaker 1 There was also a moment just before that, maybe it was right after, I forget, where Diddy and Suge were in a strip club in Atlanta and Shuge's best friend, that was one of the times you were talking about, Shuge's best friend got shot and killed in the parking lot or whatever after that alter.

Speaker 1 So up until Tupac getting shot, there's multiple deaths that have already happened.

Speaker 1 Like this is a back and forth thing that's kind of been going on and they've been antagonizing, but it is Tupac and Biggie verbally in the public, right? But this is a Suge Diddy. situation.

Speaker 1 This is their egos that are bleeding down into their artists that that are fighting against each other because Biggie and Tupac are best friends at one point in time.

Speaker 1 Well, not best friends, but they are good friends at one point in time. This is like an important part to understand.
Biggie used to sleep on Tupac's couch.

Speaker 1 Tupac's acting and like starting out his career. He's getting like his first records and everything.
He's starting to have success before Biggie. Biggie's sleeping on his couch.
Biggie is his friend.

Speaker 1 So Tupac comes to New York to record at Quad Studios. This is like the big inciting incident before the Source Awards thing.
Tupac comes to New York. He's recording in Quad Studios.

Speaker 1 He comes down to the lobby. Biggie and Diddy are there as well that same night.
He comes down to the lobby. He gets shot and robbed in the lobby.
Yeah. Right.
And this is New York lobby.

Speaker 1 It's, it's 10 feet. There's a security guy there.
It's like, you know, it's a,

Speaker 1 so he gets shot in that lobby and he immediately blames.

Speaker 2 Biggie

Speaker 1 for selling him out.

Speaker 2 And there's, I mean, yeah, and there's also like, it's worth noting.

Speaker 2 Biggie and Puffy are in the studio right at this at the top like and he is the only it's a quote-unquote robbery, but he is the only one who gets shot.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yes, he's the only one that gets shot and like it's been dramatized in a lot of like, you know, biopics and everything, but it's a nondescript place.

Speaker 1 Like I've been to Quad Studios before I recorded there. It's a pretty nondescript place.
It's not like a flashy studio.

Speaker 1 Like in LA you can see the a lot of the studios, you know, a lot of them are kind of like nondescript, but but you can like they have signs or whatever. Quad Studios has no sign.

Speaker 1 Quad Studios is not like an accident where you just stumble in and shoot somebody. Yeah.
Yeah, no. You do have to know somebody's there.
It's on like the 13th floor or some shit. Yeah.

Speaker 2 He wasn't like on the street and it was a crime of opportunity, right? Like that, right? The fact that he's like, well, this had to have been them is not

Speaker 2 paranoia or whatever ruling. Yes.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And so that builds up.
Tupac actually, right after that shooting, he goes to jail for sexual assault, spends some time in jail. And that's when Biggie's career grows, gets all big.

Speaker 1 And he comes out of jail to see Biggie now succeeding fully and

Speaker 1 also feeling that hatred and that, that, you know, like they were involved in this somehow of me getting shot, becomes incredibly paranoid.

Speaker 1 This is when the Tupac switch really goes to the gangster shit. Yeah.
You know, and he starts

Speaker 2 putting out songs insulting Biggie and bad boy wrecking.

Speaker 1 Exactly.

Speaker 1 And again,

Speaker 1 while he's in jail, Biggie puts out who shot you. I think he was in jail anyways.
I might be missing some of this up because also I am an unreliable narrator.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 while he's in jail, Biggie puts out Who Shotcha, which seems like a direct attack on Tupac. Who Shotcha is like a pretty

Speaker 1 good thing? Yeah, when you're wondering who shot me. And somebody puts out a song.

Speaker 2 It's the if I did it of gangster rap.

Speaker 1 Yes, it really is. And like, and so Tupac's like, okay, well, then he knows.
And this escalates to a massive, massive battle between East Coast and West Coast.

Speaker 2 And we are going to talk more about that. But you know what never shot Tupac to the best of my knowledge? I can't really prove this, but it's unlikely.

Speaker 1 Our products and sponsors and sponsors. Yeah, our products are the guys, the guys.

Speaker 1 Give us the money. It's doing the stuff.

Speaker 2 It's very unlikely that they did.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Although.
Although, unless it's an ad for fucking Diddy. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You might get it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Starts buying podcast space.

Speaker 10 A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers.

Speaker 9 But it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught.

Speaker 13 The answers were there, hidden in plain sight. So why did it take so long to catch him?

Speaker 14 I'm Josh Zeman, and this is Monster, Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer.

Speaker 12 The investigation into the most notorious killer in New York, since the son of Sam. Available now.

Speaker 15 Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 17 In 1997, in Belgium, 37 female body parts placed in 15 trash bags were found at dump sites with evocative names like The Path of Worry, Dump Road, and Fear Creek.

Speaker 33 Investigators made a new discovery yesterday afternoon of the torso of a woman. Investigators believe it is the work of a serial killer.

Speaker 17 Despite a sprawling investigation, including assistance from the American FBI, the murders have never been solved. Three decades later, we've unearthed new evidence and new suspects.

Speaker 34 We felt like we were in the presence of someone who was going to the grave with nightmarish secrets.

Speaker 17 From Tenderfoot TV and iHeart Podcasts, this is Le Mansre season 2, The Butcher of Moss, available now. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 35 From the studio who brought you the Piketon Massacre and Murder 101,

Speaker 1 this is Incels. I am a loser.
If I was a woman, I wouldn't dame me either.

Speaker 35 From the dark corners of the web,

Speaker 35 an emerging mindset.

Speaker 1 If I can't have you, girls, I will destroy you.

Speaker 36 A kind of subculture, a hidden world of resentment, cynicism, anger against women.

Speaker 35 A seed of loneliness explodes.

Speaker 2 I just hate myself.

Speaker 1 I don't know why you girls aren't attracted to me, but I will punish you all for it.

Speaker 7 At a deadly tipping point, Incels will be added to the terrorism guide.

Speaker 39 Police say a driver intentionally drove into a crowd, killing 10 people.

Speaker 1 Tomorrow is the day of retribution. I will have my revenge.

Speaker 1 This is Incels.

Speaker 40 Listen to season one of Incels on the iHeartRadio app, app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 2 All I know is what I've been told, and that's a half-truth is a whole lie.

Speaker 41 For almost a decade, the murder of an 18-year-old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved.

Speaker 41 Until a local homemaker, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

Speaker 1 I'm telling you, we know Quincy killed her. We know.

Speaker 41 A story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national TV.

Speaker 42 Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran.

Speaker 41 My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, producer, and I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find.

Speaker 1 I did not know her and I did not kill her or rape or burn or any of that other stuff that y'all said.

Speaker 43 They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I poured gas on her.

Speaker 41 From Lava for Good, this is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame.

Speaker 1 America, y'all better work the hell up. Bad things happen to good people in small towns.

Speaker 41 Listen to Graves County in the Bone Valley feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 41 And to binge the entire season at free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

Speaker 18 I'm Cheryl McCollum, host of the podcast Zone 7.

Speaker 19 Zone 7 ain't a place. It's a way of life.

Speaker 21 I've worked hundreds of cold cases you've heard of and thousands you haven't.

Speaker 24 We started this podcast to teach the importance of teamwork in solving these crazy crimes.

Speaker 26 Come join us in learning from detectives, prosecutors, authors, canine handlers, forensic experts, and most importantly, victims' family members.

Speaker 32 Listen to Zone 7 with Cheryl McCollum on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.

Speaker 2 and we're back

Speaker 2 so um in september of 1995 there's another you know chapter in this escalating battle witnesses say that they see diddi's bodyguard get into an argument at an atlanta club with a guy named jai hassan jamal robles a member of death rows who's like a death row guy right and then after that argument Robles is shot and killed.

Speaker 2 And it's one of those like, well, he was having an argument with Combs' bodyguard, who's a shooter, and then he gets shot, right?

Speaker 1 Turns out people with guns are willing to use this.

Speaker 2 And by the way, Combs' bodyguard, who probably shot Robles, gets shot himself years later in Atlanta. You know, not a long life.

Speaker 1 Like I said, this is... This is a back and forth kind of situation for a long time.
It's like

Speaker 1 it mirrors what is going on because these are people who are also gang-related in all these situations. It is a lot of Bloods versus Crips situation.
It's the early 90s.

Speaker 1 This is actually a thing that's going on in the world.

Speaker 2 It's like tight into the organized crime part of it.

Speaker 1 The mob pyrus in California and the and the Crips

Speaker 1 in Los Angeles and Crenshaw. It's like this is all happening at the same time.

Speaker 2 Diddy is not a guy who comes out of gang life, but he is now involved in organized crime, right? Right. Because that's just.

Speaker 1 One of the big implications for Diddy being involved in Tupac's death is that he was hiring Keith Steve. Yeah, we'll be talking about that.

Speaker 1 Right. So it's like we get into this.
He is associated heavily with other gang members.

Speaker 1 It's a bit like the Rolling Stones Hell's Angel shit, where it's like, who do you hire to protect you in your territory? If you don't hire the people who are strong there, you don't

Speaker 2 have that.

Speaker 1 And even to this day, you know, I've toured with some big acts. I've toured with Jay-Z and Push-A-T.

Speaker 1 I've toured with a lot of like mid-level rappers, Vic Mensa and IDK, like all sorts of stuff like that. Even to this day,

Speaker 1 when you go to a town, a city, you check in with the guy there. On the rap tours, you check in with the Jay Princes.
You check in with the people that are

Speaker 1 the guy in that town. Yeah.
Out of respect, out of whatever. But like, you make sure that you are talking to those people.
So this is happening now. Make no mistake.

Speaker 1 That was, there are people that were in charge in those cities that were heavily... like involved in the responsibility around protecting those incidences from happening.

Speaker 2 Well, podcasting works the same way. You know, when the last podcast on the left guys, when they tour in Portland, you know, they give Sophie and I a call.

Speaker 1 We make sure our shooters stand down.

Speaker 2 You know, the pod save guys, when I go to D.C., you know, fucking, they'll

Speaker 1 have

Speaker 1 if you don't call them. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 No, and I understand that. You know, it's like, it's

Speaker 1 very similar. Yeah, the knitting circles are actually very similar as well.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.
Sophie just put out a hit on, and I'm really bad at actually knowing other people in the podcast business. I was going to say, Sarah Marshall, but y'all are real-life friends.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. Do you know how many times?

Speaker 1 No, absolutely not.

Speaker 2 I'm going to Chicago. I got to call the Knowledge Fight guys.

Speaker 1 Make sure they don't fucking put one in me at the airport.

Speaker 1 Oh, God.

Speaker 2 Oh, man.

Speaker 2 So, and it's also worth noting, as we say, people are dying. Combs is ordering hits, right? I can't say that to a point of legal certainty.

Speaker 1 There's no legal citizens. But he's ordering hits.

Speaker 1 The implication is strong that people are being directed to

Speaker 1 execute other people

Speaker 1 on this, you know,

Speaker 1 by Sean.

Speaker 2 I might not have said that a few months ago, but now that he's in jail, I feel confident he's not going to sue me for defamation.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he definitely had people killed. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 it is also, and I should, you know, we're talking about this feud and we will get back to this East Coast-West Coast feud. I should note here, it is around this time in 1993 or 1994.

Speaker 2 I think the timeline's a little bit murky. The person may not remember precisely because that's the way trauma works, that Sean Combs is accused of committing his second rape that we know of.

Speaker 2 Lisa Gardner, who was 16 years old at the time, he is in his 20s,

Speaker 2 she is a child, says that she met Combs and Aaron Hall at an album release in New York. She alleges that Combs coerced her into having sex and then Hall assaulted her, and then Diddy rapes her.

Speaker 2 And then Diddy and Hall rape her 15-year-old friend, Monica Chase. So he and his friend, Aaron Hall, coerce and rape two underage people, one of whom is 15, one of whom is 16.

Speaker 2 The day after the assault, Combs comes to her house, she says, and chokes her until she passes out and then sexually assaults her again.

Speaker 1 This is bad stuff.

Speaker 2 This is bad stuff. Very bad stuff.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And it's one of those, like, yeah, ordering hits is bad too. But to an extent, everyone who's in this East Coast, West Coast thing is agreeing we're going to do some dangerous shit, right?

Speaker 1 Yes. Oh, yeah.
Like, so outside of the, because the sex assault stuff. That's just.

Speaker 1 Oh, no. I'm just like, I can't.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 You've got to use this. It's the only thing that you can do after talking about something that horrible.
It's necessary.

Speaker 1 Oh, no, but it's like, like, that's willing participant stuff, not the sex assault. The gang stuff, this is willing participant stuff.
So it's like,

Speaker 1 it's a lot easier to sit back and, but like, the sex assault stuff happening cocurrently, it's like, it's that what we were talking about, it's like it's covering up almost.

Speaker 1 or being covered up by the gang stuff. It's like we're over here thinking about East Coast, West Coast war, and he's raping girls.

Speaker 1 It's like, that's, that's the thing that's like emphasis on the eager about it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. It's like it's like there's one side where it's like, well, this is like a willing participant situation.

Speaker 1 I mean, obviously, I'm not trying to say everybody that's hurt by gang violence is a willing participant. But the rap thing.
Yeah. Yes.
It's like between these two guys, they are fighting each other.

Speaker 1 They are fighting each other. They're causing the country to fight each other.
Like they're, this is a thing that's like escalating violence amongst people.

Speaker 1 in gangs, you know, it's like, but

Speaker 1 willing participants, again, it's like, there's obviously collateral damage.

Speaker 1 There's obviously bad shit, but, but the other side of this, where it's like sexual assault stuff, it's like, damn, dude, like, and you don't even get that shit to the surface because there's people dying already.

Speaker 2 And everyone's paying attention to the glamorous gang fight stuff, right? And this is happening the whole time that's going down.

Speaker 2 Also, in 1994, the same year, probably, Combs allegedly met and raped a woman named April Lampros. She claims that he started it by telling her he wanted to be her mentor.
He love-bombed her.

Speaker 2 And once they were dating, he ordered her to to keep the relationship secret and started beating her.

Speaker 2 Lamprose later alleged that Combs forced her and his partner at the time, his romantic partner, Kim Porter, to take MDMA and then force them to have sex while he watched.

Speaker 2 She attempted to cut off contact with him, but he threatened her, including with revenge porn. So she keeps going for a while.
This would have been a thing that...

Speaker 2 would have looked like they were dating from the outside, but a big part of it is that he is violent. And if she leaves, he's going to post videos of them having, you know, of yeah, you know, so.

Speaker 1 And this is all a recurring theme in all of the Diddy stuff. It's like he took that, that one playbook and just ran with it, play the hits every single time.

Speaker 1 He just kept going with it because like he knew that there is a, there, and, and there is a very truthful element to the power of influence, like that you can have by, by just being who you are and being a big deal.

Speaker 1 And it's scary because you think, especially with people like Diddy, where they actively know that they are untouchable. Yeah.

Speaker 1 They actively know that they're untouchable and that they can do whatever they want.

Speaker 2 And these are, you know, like these are the two cases we have from the fucking war years, right? These aren't the only two. Like, again, what I think is the same thing.

Speaker 1 That's not a singular event type shit.

Speaker 2 This is a pattern that he has, and he is engaging in this pattern regularly for basically like most of the time you and I have been alive. That's the kind of bastard we're talking about.

Speaker 1 I was five when he started. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 I was three. Yeah.
In September of 1996, Tupac was gunned down in a drive-by shooting in Las Vegas. Six months after that, Biggie is killed in a drive-by in Los Angeles.

Speaker 2 No one was officially convicted of either murder, but we at this point also pretty much know who did both. Biggie was very likely gunned down by a guy named Poochie.

Speaker 2 Who you can imagine is the character from The Simpsons, if you like.

Speaker 1 And he's going to, at the end of it, he is going to speak to his own shoes. He is going to speak.
Here is the toughest part. Again, unreliable narrators,

Speaker 1 Also, every single one of these people die. Every single one of them gets shot in an early death.
Orlando Anderson, who was the likely killer of Tupac, also ended early.

Speaker 1 Keefe D is the only one that stuck around for a while. Amazing that Keefy D makes it.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Keefe D.

Speaker 1 You never think it's going to be Keefe, but it is Keefy D sticks around. And he is as unreliable as they come just because of who he is as a person.
It is all, it's braggadocious shit.

Speaker 1 It's all about like talking about, I I was involved in this thing.

Speaker 1 It is definitely, he was involved and he was in the right places, but there's a lot of like, you know, it's even that way with Suge Knight, where it's like Suge Knight is bragging about a lot of this stuff and trying to like elevate.

Speaker 1 And you don't get a complete narrative because nobody is ever going to tell the truth. Right.
Right. But

Speaker 1 as far as the evidence points, yeah, Poochie. And I can also clarify here.

Speaker 2 You will find other theories. There are people who say, no, it wasn't Poochie.
It was this other person that killed Biggie. And the same is true with Tupac.

Speaker 2 I'm going with like the likeliest version of the story. This is not a

Speaker 2 litigate who killed Tupac podcast.

Speaker 1 Right. There's literally podcasts about you have strong opinions on this.

Speaker 1 There's biographies, there's biopics. There's so many things.

Speaker 2 I've got a working theory that it was, in fact, Bernie Sanders who dropped Tupac.

Speaker 1 Oh, but yeah. Damn it.
I was going to make that joke. I was going to say it was

Speaker 1 Bernard

Speaker 1 Bernie Sanders. Bernie Sanders.

Speaker 1 I was ready to go.

Speaker 1 Damn it. I was going to make that joke because I knew it was going to be a deep cut that like the real lovers of the pod would be like, oh, shit, he's one of us.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 2 as you noted. Tupac was almost certainly killed by Dwayne Keefe D.
Davis, who was finally arrested last year for the murder.

Speaker 2 He had been made a police informant in 2009 after an arrest for drug trafficking.

Speaker 2 This is, like a lot of people, he is not super well informed about how the legal system works. And he believed himself immune to prosecution and admitted to killing Tupac in a drive-by in 1996.

Speaker 1 And all right, so heavily believed. So the breakdown of this story, I'll try and get through really quick, but basically it was a Tyson fight in Las Vegas.

Speaker 1 Tupac is there with his girlfriend and Suge Knight. He goes because he actually wrote a song for Mike Tyson's walk-in.
He wrote like a rap song for Mike Tyson. And it's like, it's funny.

Speaker 1 You should listen to it. But it's, you know, Tupac.
So he's there and he's watching the fight.

Speaker 1 And then after the fight, he sees a guy, Orlando Anderson, who just weeks prior had taken somebody down and stolen their chain. This is a big deal at this time.

Speaker 1 You have a chain that says death row on it. Sug Knight only gives those to the closest of associates and everything.

Speaker 2 And again, podcasting works the same way, by the way. Anybody takes my chain, I'm going to come out blasting.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Orlando Anderson was involved in that. Tupac sees him right after the Tyson fight.
He beats the shit out of him in a lobby and then goes back to his place.

Speaker 1 And then Shuge and Tupac are going to go to an after party. They start driving down the street.
Orlando Anderson happens to be Keefe D's nephew, right?

Speaker 1 And they are in a car together driving down the street. And Orlando and Keefe, depending on which narrator you believe, one of them definitely.
plugged Tupac. Now, in one of the greatest moments

Speaker 1 in

Speaker 1 Tupac history, in all history, fuck it. The cop comes up to Tupac and he says, who shot you? And Tupac says, fuck you.

Speaker 1 Because even in death, he kept it real.

Speaker 1 It is one of my favorite.

Speaker 1 Those were like his last words. That was his last words was saying, fuck you to a child.

Speaker 2 He's a literal Johnny Tight Lips character. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I didn't say anything.

Speaker 1 Yeah. You shouldn't tell the doctor.

Speaker 2 Tell him to suck shit.

Speaker 1 Just suck an A.

Speaker 1 Second level.

Speaker 1 Exactly. Literally, like, who shot you? He knows who shot him.
He just beat that guy up 10 fucking minutes ago. You know? He's like, nah, man, fuck yourselves.

Speaker 2 Speaking of shooting people, don't do that. Listen to these ads.

Speaker 10 A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers.

Speaker 9 But it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught.

Speaker 13 The answers were there, hidden in plain sight. So why did it take so long to catch him?

Speaker 12 I'm Josh Zeman, and this is Monster, Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer, the investigation into the most notorious killer in New York, since the son of Sam. Available now.

Speaker 15 Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 17 In 1997, in Belgium, 37 female body body parts placed in 15 trash bags were found at dump sites with evocative names like The Path of Worry, Dump Road, and Fear Creek.

Speaker 17 Despite a sprawling investigation, including assistance from the American FBI, the murders have never been solved. Three decades later, we've unearthed new evidence and new suspects.

Speaker 34 We felt like we were in the presence of someone who was going to the grave with nightmarish secrets.

Speaker 17 From Tenderfoot TV and iHeart Podcasts, this is Le Mansre season 2, The Butcher of Moss, available now. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 35 From the studio who brought you the Piketon Massacre and Murder 101,

Speaker 1 this is Incels. I am a loser.
If I was a woman, I wouldn't date me either.

Speaker 35 From the dark corners of the web,

Speaker 35 an emerging mindset.

Speaker 1 If I can't have you, girls, I will destroy you.

Speaker 36 A kind of subculture, a hidden world of resentment, cynicism, anger against women.

Speaker 35 A seed of loneliness explodes.

Speaker 2 I just hate myself.

Speaker 38 I don't know why you girls aren't attracted to me, but I will punish you all for it.

Speaker 7 At a deadly tipping point, Incels will be added to the terrorism guide.

Speaker 39 Police say a driver intentionally drove into a crowd, killing 10 people.

Speaker 1 Tomorrow is the day of retribution. I will have my revenge.

Speaker 1 This is Incels.

Speaker 40 Listen to season one of Incels on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 2 All I know is what I've been told, and that's a half-truth is a whole lie.

Speaker 41 For almost a decade, the murder of an 18-year-old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved until a local homemaker, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

Speaker 1 I'm telling you, we know Quincy killed her.

Speaker 41 We know. A story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national TV.

Speaker 42 Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran.

Speaker 41 My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, producer, and I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find.

Speaker 1 I did not know her and I did not kill her or rape or burn or any of that other stuff that y'all said.

Speaker 43 They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I poured gas on her.

Speaker 41 From Lava for Good, this is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame.

Speaker 1 America, y'all better work the hell up. Bad things happens to good people in small towns.

Speaker 41 Listen to Graves County in the Bone Valley feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 41 And to binge the entire season at free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

Speaker 18 I'm Cheryl McCollum, host of the podcast Zone 7.

Speaker 19 Zone 7 ain't a place. It's a way of life.

Speaker 21 I've worked hundreds of cold cases you've heard of and thousands you haven't.

Speaker 24 We started this podcast to teach the importance of teamwork in solving these crazy crimes.

Speaker 26 Come join us in learning from detectives, prosecutors, authors, canine handlers, forensic experts, and most importantly, victims' family members.

Speaker 32 Listen to Zone 7 with Cheryl McCollum on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.

Speaker 1 We

Speaker 1 are

Speaker 1 back.

Speaker 1 Oh, no.

Speaker 1 No, no.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 2 Oh,

Speaker 2 man.

Speaker 1 Pain.

Speaker 1 So much pain.

Speaker 1 Fuck.

Speaker 2 So, Tupac, we're talking about Tupac, who was almost certainly killed by Dwayne Keefe D. Davis.
So Davis, while believing himself immune to prosecution, admits to killing Tupac in 1996.

Speaker 2 This is much more recently. He just got arrested, I think, last year.

Speaker 2 And he also claims, while he, again, believes himself immune, that Diddy offered him a million dollars to kill Tupac and paid that fee to a different Southside Crips member to do the job.

Speaker 1 And he did not get that money ever. No.

Speaker 2 Wow, he got fucked over by a fucking rap gangster?

Speaker 1 Amazing.

Speaker 2 Diddy's not a man of his word.

Speaker 1 Man, this guy. No, so one of the things, so Keefy D had actually been a security guard for Puffy for a while.
And like, and that's how that link had been established.

Speaker 1 You know, one of the things that's like, there's parts of this whole story that you have to kind of take with like a bit of like,

Speaker 1 I don't think Keefe D was actively like seeking out Tupac or anything.

Speaker 1 I think this was a situation where if Puppy was involved in this whole situation, the way that it has been accused, I think he did what they say he did, which is he put a word out.

Speaker 1 The word is, if you kill Tupac, I give you a million dollars. Right.

Speaker 1 And then I think. Keefe D

Speaker 1 and Orlando Anderson happened to

Speaker 1 be in the right place at the right time, right?

Speaker 1 They were at the right place at the right time. They were connected in the right situation that it happened, that they were like, we know where this motherfucker is.
We are here right now.

Speaker 1 Let's do this shit. And we'll try and collect on this later.
And I think probably,

Speaker 1 although I don't think it was a million dollars, right? I could be wrong about this, but I think what it was actually transferred was like 200,000 or something like that.

Speaker 2 This is what Keefe D says, right? I'm not saying this is the literal amounts or how it actually happened.

Speaker 1 So I think that that's exactly like I think it got transferred. I think people didn't like the one guy definitely pocketed that money or according to the story, pocketed that money.

Speaker 1 The in-between guy pocketed that money and was like, okay, bitch.

Speaker 1 But I think that, you know, again, unreliable narration in this whole story, but there's some, I don't think it was intentional is my point that.

Speaker 1 that they were trying out at that moment to kill Tupac. They didn't go to Vegas with the intent of killing Tupac.
I think they went to Vegas to see a fight and

Speaker 1 there was an incident and then it just turned up and it was a perfect timing.

Speaker 1 It seems more like that than it was a premeditated situation of they're out there looking to kill Tupac like they're on the street ready to do it.

Speaker 1 Like Biggie saw Keefe and was like, I will give you this money. Go kill him now.
And he went there directly. I think it was a crime of convenience more than anything.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, that seems likely to me. I don't know what happened.
And again, when I'm saying this is what this guy says, I'm not saying this is literally what happened.

Speaker 2 This is a dude bullshitting to the cops when he thinks he's immute. Right.

Speaker 2 So the cops had him reach out to the guy that he said actually got paid for the job and to Diddy, basically trying to get Diddy on a wire being like, yeah, killing Tupac was rad.

Speaker 1 Right. I don't think that worked.

Speaker 2 Sean is not that dumb and he has not been charged.

Speaker 1 He has notoriously been very good about not talking to the wrong people.

Speaker 2 Yes. You know? And he has not been charged with this.
I don't know that he ever will.

Speaker 2 But prosecutors summarizing one of the interviews with Keefe D in court documents wrote, and this is from right after Tupac's death, Sean Combs reaches out to defendant, wondering if Southside Crips were responsible for Shakur's death by asking, is that us?

Speaker 2 Defendant, beaming with pride, answers, yes. And that is probably how it went down because often these things are not like, I ordered a hit and then he was shot.

Speaker 2 It was more, I made it known and I spread some money around. Like I wanted someone to take a shot at this guy, but like other people could have done it.
Like, I don't know.

Speaker 1 You know, this is what I'm talking about, the clout industry of this, because it is part entertainment industry. It's part, it's part male ego.

Speaker 1 And like, especially at this time, like the way that the rap industry was was like very like strong, like male ego-centric type stuff.

Speaker 1 You know, it was like Tupac literally, the beef between him and Biggie, like, you know, Biggie made who shacha, and he responded, Tupac responded with saying, you claim to be a player, but I fucked your wife.

Speaker 1 You know, like, he, he came back with what at that time was considered the most, and the rumors around him and Faith Hill actually having, you know, a relationship were certainly like, that's real shit.

Speaker 1 You know, like, this is a real, like, manly type fight. You know, this is what they're fighting about is these chauvinistic type concepts.

Speaker 2 Yeah. No, I mean, it's exactly like I put two bullets in Dan from Knowledge fight, you know, not because I didn't like him, just because, you know, he was on my turf, right?

Speaker 2 You know, he was on my turf. And he didn't call me before Jordan went to Portland.
You know, this is just the way nobody likes it. This is just the way podcasting has to be.

Speaker 2 There's no other way to do it, you know? Sorry, man.

Speaker 1 There's no other way to do it.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 One of the NPR guys stabbed me. You know, that's just the way it is.
One of those Radio Lab guys. I'm not going to tell you which one.

Speaker 1 I don't talk except for I'm talking about

Speaker 1 Joe Rogan.

Speaker 2 I'll snitch on Joe Rogan.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'll snitch on Joe Rogan.

Speaker 1 Let me find out some news on him.

Speaker 2 So anyway, not conclusive, but probably pretty safe to say. Did he had something to do with the Tupac killing?

Speaker 1 At the very least, he influenced it by positively putting... Put that word into the hood.
Right. Right.
If you kill him, there's money on it for you.

Speaker 2 Yeah, exactly. And, you know, obviously the greater crime in this is the fan art that this whole tragic rivalry has inspired.
I'm speaking specifically.

Speaker 2 I wrote this episode listening to a bunch of Tupac and Biggie songs.

Speaker 2 And while I was, you know, how YouTube does its thing, and it took me to a playlist some DJ had made that was like Tupac and Biggie songs called Biggie versus Tupac.

Speaker 2 This has nothing to do with the story, but whoever made it did a Photoshop that Sophie's going to show you.

Speaker 2 And it's supposed to be like split down the middle, Tupac's face and Biggie's face side by side.

Speaker 2 But the way they did it, it just looks like Tupac had a stroke.

Speaker 1 Oh, I got an art picture in it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, Sophie, just to show it off.

Speaker 1 Okay, I got it.

Speaker 1 It just looks like Tupac's stroke down. It's just

Speaker 2 the way like Biggie's got kind of those drooping eyes.

Speaker 2 Not a successful Photoshop, my man.

Speaker 1 I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 oh my god here's the thing man just like you know just like nwa you know the largest consumers of this east coast west coast rap war were suburban white kids you know it's like and this is true with even today like you get into like the travis scott stuff you get into like any rap that's like you know

Speaker 1 it it is largely consumed by suburban white kids who also i'm sorry guys like i you know same team or whatever but you guys can be some of the dumbest corniest people that exist on the planet.

Speaker 1 Like, that is pretty brutal, man. Like, the doubt, like, the...

Speaker 2 As a suburban white kid who was listening to fucking Biggie when I was 15.

Speaker 1 Yeah, me too. Sorry, guys.

Speaker 1 Yeah. We just weren't really nailing it.

Speaker 2 I'm going to be a gangster one day.

Speaker 2 Plano fucking tech.

Speaker 1 God, that was so funny.

Speaker 2 All the kids who would pretend to be fucking gangsters.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God, dude.

Speaker 1 You're just our largest consumer of

Speaker 1 that beef. And also, even today, we're still sitting with this Kendrick Drake thing right now that is going on.
I don't know how plugged in you are to this. I've tried to tell you.
It seems,

Speaker 1 yeah, it seems largely egged on by like suburban white populace.

Speaker 2 No, and I honestly, I'm considering taking some shots at Drake. This seems like the time to do it.

Speaker 1 It is. Yeah.
Yeah. He's low.
He's low. You can really get some in, and nobody can say anything.
This is going to be an easy thing.

Speaker 1 Punching down on Drake with whatever, 400 billion fucking streams on spot. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So Sean Puffy Combs at this point has helped to orchestrate Half a Coast's campaign of assassinations that led to the deaths of two of the greatest rappers of all time and also some other people.

Speaker 2 This was a tough period for Diddy, though, because after Biggie dies, he's successfully gotten rid of one of his major competitors at the cost of losing his own golden goose.

Speaker 1 Sort of.

Speaker 16 Sort of.

Speaker 2 Sort of.

Speaker 1 He waited a whole two weeks to release his. That's exactly what i'm saying yeah yeah

Speaker 2 so he releases his first hit single in january of 1997 an album follows in july which includes a touching tribute to biggie titled i'll be missing you it might as well be titled i'll be cashing in on your death although the complaint that you're going to get from this people are going to be like but he he never cleared the sample right from sting Right.

Speaker 2 Yeah. He samples Sting's every move you take, right?

Speaker 1 Something like

Speaker 2 the greatest crime.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he never clears it. And he, to this day, like Sting collects a pretty big amount of cash off of that.

Speaker 1 However, don't also forget that this is a time in the world where appearances pay, radio play pays, like everything pays.

Speaker 1 This isn't Spotify era where like, you know, the song being everywhere in the entire world doesn't give you any money, even though you're not getting any publishing off of it.

Speaker 1 Because when you record it yourself, you own that that's the master recording. You own your version of it

Speaker 1 for certain things, right?

Speaker 1 Publishing is one thing. They can take all the publishing and you still make money off of that song because it plays places.
Yep. So

Speaker 1 it's not like he made no money off of that. I just know like people are going to be, but he didn't cash in on that because it stinked.

Speaker 1 You know, no, it's like there's still money to be made, especially in the 90s. There was still a lot of money to be made off of having a number one song in the country.

Speaker 2 This is the first rap single to debut at number one on the Billboard Top 100. Like he makes a lot of money as a result.

Speaker 1 Everybody knows this song. He comes out at the VMAs dancing in a white suit.
Like,

Speaker 1 he, it was actually iconic. It's actually iconic.
Yeah, yeah. The Biggie memorial in the background.
Oh, God.

Speaker 2 Dead friend's huge face as he just fucking cash register sounds going off.

Speaker 1 Immediately. And there is also real quick, just to backpedal a second.
There is a lot of talk about Biggie wanting to leave Puffy's label before this happens. There is interviews with tons of people.

Speaker 1 Again,

Speaker 1 unreliable narrator type stuff, but there is a lot of interviews of people saying that Biggie wanted out of his deal with Bad Boy because he felt like Puffy was taking advantage of him.

Speaker 1 He felt like he wasn't getting what he should from his music, that he wasn't getting like, I think at the time, like he was worth like maybe $20 million or something like that, you know, but he was not like

Speaker 1 reaping what he actually should have from 90s era music. You know, it's like when you had a banger in 90s era music, you made like $50 million.

Speaker 1 It was like an insane amount of money that you could make. Like if you talk about 90s bands, they were selling, they were still selling physical product.

Speaker 1 It's not like now with streaming and stuff like that. They were selling a physical product.
So if you had a platinum album in the 90s, you made 25, 30 million.

Speaker 1 If your label didn't screw you, if there weren't, you know, if you weren't getting fucked over, you made like 30 or 40 million dollars. Like you made in a tremendous amount of money.

Speaker 1 There's a lot of, there's a lot of conversation about Biggie having known that prior to his death, which also leads to the implication that he may have actually been involved in Biggie's own death.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and we're largely just staying away from that because it's not provable and the stuff that's provable is

Speaker 2 honestly a lot worse.

Speaker 1 Again, very unreliable narrators everywhere, but it should at least be known that there is the theory out there in the world that that is something that goes on.

Speaker 1 You know, that that happened and that was what he was part of with that.

Speaker 2 Well, that's going to do it for part two. Will, you got anything to plug before we roll out?

Speaker 1 Man, I have a podcast.

Speaker 1 If you are a nerd and you like audio stuff, but not nerdy audio stuff, I have a podcast called That Sounds About Right with my friend Shane Lance, who is a polar opposite of me as a human.

Speaker 1 He's very Christian, very positive human being. And I am divorced three times.
So we make a good pair.

Speaker 1 And we talk about cool audio stuff about our own careers and a little inspirational. I mean, it's called That Sounds About Right.
I also am found all over the internet on things

Speaker 1 from YouTube to TikTok under Greasy Will, Greasy Will Music, Greasy Will. I'm easy to find.
A Z and only one L on Will.

Speaker 2 Yeah, check him out. And check me out on Blue Sky at IWriteOK and check out our other pod.

Speaker 1 Are you loving Blue Sky? I am on Blue Sky. It's fine.
It's great now. Yeah, I'm happy.
You actually liked one of my shits the other day in your thing, and people were very excited about it.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I don't have many followers on Blue Sky, but I share some really dark-twisted thoughts on there. So, you know,

Speaker 1 if you're into that, you can find me there too. I'm sure.

Speaker 2 Watch Will cancel himself and watch me cancel myself. All on Blue Sky.

Speaker 1 Blue Sky.

Speaker 2 All right. Well, that's it.

Speaker 41 Behind the Bastards is a production of CoolZone Media.

Speaker 41 For more from CoolZone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Hapa Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 28 Behind the Bastards is now available on YouTube.

Speaker 41 New episodes every Wednesday and Friday.

Speaker 4 Subscribe to our channel, youtube.com/slash at behind the bastards.

Speaker 10 A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers.

Speaker 9 But it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught.

Speaker 13 The answers were there, hidden in plain sight. So why did it take so long to catch him?

Speaker 14 I'm Josh Zeman, and this is Monster, Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer.

Speaker 12 The investigation into the most notorious killer in New York, since the son of Sam. Available now.

Speaker 15 Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 17 A new true crime podcast from Tenderfoot TV in the city of Mons in Belgium. Women began to go missing.

Speaker 17 It was only after their dismembered remains began turning up in various places that residents realized a sadistic serial killer was lurking among them. The murders have never been solved.

Speaker 17 Three decades later, we've unearthed new evidence. Le Monstre, Season 2, is available now.
Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 18 I'm I'm Cheryl McCollum, host of the podcast Zone 7.

Speaker 19 Zone 7 ain't a place. It's a way of life.

Speaker 20 Now, this ain't just any old podcast, honey.

Speaker 25 We're going to be talking to family members of victims, detectives, prosecutors, and some nationally recognized experts that I have called on over the years to help me work these difficult cases.

Speaker 21 I've worked hundreds of cold cases you've heard of and thousands you haven't.

Speaker 24 We started this podcast to teach the importance of teamwork in solving these crazy crimes.

Speaker 26 Come join us in learning from detectives, prosecutors, authors, canine handlers, forensic experts, and most importantly, victims' family members.

Speaker 23 Come be a part of MyZone 7 while building yours.

Speaker 25 Listen to Zone 7 with Cheryl McCollum on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.

Speaker 1 Malcolm Glaubau here.

Speaker 44 This season on Revisionist History, we're going back to the spring of 1988 to a town in northwest Alabama where a man committed a crime that would spiral out of control.

Speaker 1 And he said, I've been in prison 24, 25 years. That's probably not long enough.
But I didn't kill him.

Speaker 44 From Revisionist History, this is the Alabama Murders.

Speaker 2 Listen to Revisionist History, the Alabama Murders on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 45 Hey, it's Ed Helms, host of Snafu, my podcast about history's greatest screw-ups. On our new season, we're bringing you a new snafu every single episode.

Speaker 1 32 lost nuclear weapons. You're like, wait, stop? What?

Speaker 45 Yeah, it's going to be a whole lot of history, a whole lot of funny, and a whole lot of fabulous guests. Paul Scheer, Angela, and Jenna, Nick Kroll, Jordan Klepper.

Speaker 45 Listen to season four of Snafu with Ed Helms on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 4 This is an iHeart Podcast.