Kelsea Ballerini: Divorced at 29 (FBF)

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Speaker 1 What is up, Daddy Gang?

Speaker 2 It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call Her Daddy, Daddy, Daddy, Daddy.

Speaker 1 Kelsey Ballerini, welcome to Call Her Daddy.

Speaker 2 Hello, Alex Cooper. Thank you.

Speaker 1 Congratulations on your new EP. Thank you.
Rolling up the welcome, Matt. I was listening to it in the car this morning

Speaker 1 and I listened to every single song and it's great. Thanks.
It's also

Speaker 1 obvious what it's about, your divorce. Yeah.
So let's get into it.

Speaker 2 Let's get into it.

Speaker 1 You met your ex-husband, Morgan Evans, when you were 22 years old and he's also a country singer. Yeah.
How did the two of you meet?

Speaker 2 I was hosting an award show and he was my co-host

Speaker 2 and I was like newly out of a relationship and I was in this phase where I was like on my third single, but like, like, I just felt like the world was like opening up for the first time for me, and like things were, things were working, and I was like,

Speaker 2 I just like, I believed in everything. Yeah.
You know what I mean? Like, everything good was happening at once. And I think I was just like, so starry-eyed to my life.

Speaker 2 And then I met this person who like, was

Speaker 2 is like so charming and sweet and um

Speaker 2 and just it like aligned with this this goodness that was happening in my world and it just all kind of clicked in like this kind of fairy tale moment.

Speaker 1 I also feel like that age, even if like we all have our ups and downs at 21, 22, but it is a pretty ideal age where you like feel like you're an adult.

Speaker 2 Yeah. You're kind of not, but like you feel like it.
You're feeling like it. I thought that I had my entire life figured out.

Speaker 2 Like I thought that I knew exactly what love was and what I contributed to a relationship and what I needed out of a relationship.

Speaker 2 And I didn't.

Speaker 1 What was your first impression of him? Like, what were you attracted to about him?

Speaker 2 He just comes from such a loving

Speaker 2 family that believes so much in like unity and family. And I come from a really, really broken family.

Speaker 2 And I was really attracted to that. Like, I was really attracted to the security that that idea had and that he innately had in him.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 We definitely came in with different ideas of a relationship, you know.

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What were those first few weeks and months of dating like?

Speaker 2 It was just a whirlwind. I like, I am such a jump right in person,

Speaker 2 which I part of me was like, I don't want to do that again. And part of me is like, here I am.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 I don't know how to shield that because I like that about myself. I'm like, I would rather feel things without a filter and then fall on my ass later and

Speaker 2 feel the opposite of that feeling fully than not let myself feel a feeling. Like, that's the point of life, you know?

Speaker 2 Um, and so I

Speaker 2 think that like my life was changing so much, and I was like, all of a sudden, busy all the time and traveling the world for the first time.

Speaker 2 Like, I'm from Knoxville, and then I was like going to Australia, you know, I was like, this is amazing. Like, look at the world.

Speaker 2 And, um, and he felt steady, really, really steady through all the chaos of my life changing.

Speaker 1 When you look back now at those beginning, first few, even like weeks, month or two of dating is there anything now you can be like oh i think that's a red flag but you were too young at the time to recognize i at 22

Speaker 2 was much quieter i didn't have an opinion on much

Speaker 2 i um i'm a people pleaser to my core and i think that that was the thing that was in the driver's seat

Speaker 2 I was a mirror back to whoever was in front of me.

Speaker 2 And I was really good at being whoever people needed me to be. And then I grew up.

Speaker 1 You got engaged after nine months of knowing each other.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Nine months of knowing each other.

Speaker 1 Were you surprised when he proposed?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 2 No. I mean, it was like, it was balls to the wall.
It was all in.

Speaker 1 Had you guys talked about getting engaged?

Speaker 2 Yeah, and it's so funny because I swore I would never get married. It was just not my thing.
And I think it's because I watched my parents really have a time with it.

Speaker 2 um they had a nasty divorce they still can't really be in the same room and um

Speaker 2 and so i think being an only child watching that walking through that at 12 13 like those impressionable ages i was just like i'm not doing it when you guys got engaged what was your friends and family reaction they were happy i mean i think i think there was definitely a like this is this is pretty fast

Speaker 2 um

Speaker 2 undertone to everything but like you know he's a good person and he was really good to me, especially then. Yeah.
So, I think they wanted to see me happy.

Speaker 2 I also think that they were watching my life start to change, and they wanted someone with me that was more steady, so I didn't have a go off the rails.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 1 I was wondering if there were any of those, like, friends that sometimes it creates a riff in the friendship, but they're like, Kelsey, like, are you sure like this is really soon?

Speaker 1 Like, did you not have anyone in your life that was questioning you?

Speaker 2 People questioned him more than they questioned me. Like, my friend Megan, I'll never forget this.

Speaker 2 The first time she met him, she pulled him aside and she said, you have a lot more to gain from this than she does.

Speaker 1 Why do you think that is?

Speaker 2 I think we were just in different places. You know, he's nine years older than me, and he was kind of restarting his career in the States.
And I was like digging my heels in. And it was just...

Speaker 2 We were in different places with

Speaker 2 our jobs and with where we were at with them.

Speaker 1 Did you feel that way? That he had more to gain?

Speaker 2 I never felt like that until afterwards.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Did you live together before you got engaged?

Speaker 2 We did.

Speaker 1 How soon in did you move in together?

Speaker 2 Eight months.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 Eight months.

Speaker 2 It sounds insane for me to say it out loud now.

Speaker 1 Sometimes you can be so in it and clouded in your judgment because, like, the immediate in front of you feels so good and makes so much sense in your head.

Speaker 1 Not to say it's a full bad decision, it's just like you don't have the wherewithal to be like, Let me think about this, not from a place of being young and in love and infatuated.

Speaker 1 Like, it's really fucking hard. But eight months to move in, did you move in with him, or did he move in with you, or did you guys get like a mutual place?

Speaker 2 He moves in with me.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's interesting.

Speaker 1 So he's nine years older, you have a place, and he moves in with you. How did that conversation go?

Speaker 2 Um,

Speaker 2 it was just kind of the undertone of the whole relationship.

Speaker 2 You know,

Speaker 1 now do you see that as a red flag?

Speaker 1 Do you think, if in that specific instance, say, like moving in, like if you had pushed back, do you think the relationship would have progressed in the way that it did?

Speaker 2 Maybe not as swiftly.

Speaker 2 I think that definitely accelerated it.

Speaker 2 But, like I said, like, I was just, I was like, how can I be of service? I'm a people pleaser. What, what do we need to do to make this happen?

Speaker 1 You know, did anyone ever ask you guys, like, what's the rush? Like, why do you have to get married so soon? Like, date. Have you ever seen that? You know what?

Speaker 2 I'm sure people did. Yeah.
I'm sure people did. And I just simply did not care to listen.

Speaker 1 Okay, take me to your wedding day.

Speaker 1 What do you remember about that day?

Speaker 2 Oh my God. I haven't thought about that in a a minute.

Speaker 2 I just wanted

Speaker 2 everyone to have a nice time. I didn't want to have a wedding.
Why?

Speaker 2 Because I didn't, I think at the end of the day, I really want to get married.

Speaker 2 I did. in that moment, but fundamentally, I think from the trauma that I had as a kid, I didn't.
And then I think I told myself that I did. And I take the full responsibility of that narrative.

Speaker 1 Did you ever share with him that you didn't think fundamentally you believed in marriage for yourself?

Speaker 2 I think these bigger thoughts

Speaker 2 started really showing up as I grew up.

Speaker 2 And that was in the marriage. Yeah.
You know, because I was like, of course.

Speaker 2 I, you know, I love you. Of course I want to marry you.
Of course I want to have kids with you. And then

Speaker 2 we were married and then it was like time for kids and then i was like oh no no no no no how you enter into a relationship and how you show up to it and

Speaker 2 like that that's going to be the through line yeah and so i started overcompensating really really early on and that

Speaker 1 happened till the very end can you explain what you mean by that overcompensating

Speaker 2 Like

Speaker 2 I was the one who was like,

Speaker 2 when am I going to see you? How is that going to happen? Here's the flight. Let me buy that flight for you.
Here's the hotel.

Speaker 2 Sure, I'll leave my mom for Christmas and buy our flights to go see your family in Australia. Okay, cool.

Speaker 2 We have an anniversary coming up. Should we book a trip? Okay, I'll do that too.

Speaker 2 We're home for a week. I'll book the cleaners.
I got that too. Like, I just did it all.
And it's because I started it that way.

Speaker 2 I didn't ask him to meet me anywhere. I just did it.

Speaker 1 When you're saying you were basically financially funding the relationship, when did you start to get like resentful?

Speaker 2 Um,

Speaker 2 when I just simply didn't see him, I got to a place where I was like, if I wasn't,

Speaker 2 if I wasn't killing myself

Speaker 2 to figure out how this overlaps and how this works, as I'm like, you know, busy,

Speaker 2 it just we wouldn't exist.

Speaker 1 Wait, and why weren't you seeing him? Where is he?

Speaker 2 I mean, he was touring. He was doing,

Speaker 2 doing it all.

Speaker 2 I just, I think

Speaker 2 if you want to, you will.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So, how was your first year of marriage? Because you were married for five years.

Speaker 2 Almost five. Almost five.
Okay. So, how was the first year of marriage? It was great.
Okay. It was great.
We, like,

Speaker 2 we were still so young in our relationship. Like, our relationship was still so young, let alone the marriage, you know? So, like, we were still kind of in like the

Speaker 2 rainbows and butterflies, and it was fun and sweet and romantic, and there was effort. And

Speaker 1 I know I always say to myself and to my girlfriends, like, you have to get to the year mark, and then you kind of start to recognize if you'd want to be with that person.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you got married in the honeymoon stage. For sure.
When did you realize the two of you were not on the same page about what marriage looked like?

Speaker 2 Longer than I give myself credit for.

Speaker 2 A long time. A long time.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 there were separations. There was years of couples therapy.

Speaker 2 There was like

Speaker 2 many a nights of sleeping on the couch. Like this was just a relationship that took work for a long time.

Speaker 1 Do you remember like the first night that you slept on the couch?

Speaker 2 I remember, I don't think it was the first night, but I remember it was a night where I was like, this is not what I want. But I slept on the couch the night before the CMAs and

Speaker 2 I remember

Speaker 2 I went to rehearsal at the arena and texting him and him being like, I'll just see you at the carpet. Like,

Speaker 2 okay, can you give me a little bit more of an

Speaker 1 Why did you sleep on the couch?

Speaker 2 There was just such a sense of disconnection. We hadn't seen each other.
There was a lack of effort to see each other.

Speaker 2 I was getting resentful because anytime we did see each other, I felt like I was carrying that load.

Speaker 2 And I was tired. I was just tired of

Speaker 2 showing up in that way all the time and not feeling like I was seen or matched.

Speaker 2 And then I was also tired from like traveling all the time and like giving so much of myself because that's what I want to do to honor my career too.

Speaker 2 And I think I just felt really depleted and not understood.

Speaker 1 What did those nights look like, like fight-wise, though? Like, are you

Speaker 2 fight? Yeah, we didn't fight. No.

Speaker 1 So it would be just silence you're walking out you're sleeping on the couch you wake up in the next morning and it's like yeah that's how it goes yeah and when you walk out onto the like to go to sleep on the couch he doesn't come to try to get you he stays in the room it's just silence

Speaker 2 yeah

Speaker 2 but how would you feel when you're on the couch like going to bed like what were do you remember what you were mentally going through i definitely learned how to compartmentalize which is some undoing that we're working on now yeah because i was like i have to work tomorrow

Speaker 2 I have to work tomorrow.

Speaker 2 And I have to show up with him so people don't ask questions. And then, you know, 2021, I hosted the CMT Awards.
He just wasn't there.

Speaker 1 He didn't show up.

Speaker 2 I was like, you cannot come. You cannot come.
It was so bad.

Speaker 1 Why did you not want him to go? Because

Speaker 2 I had to work and I had to show up. And I knew that if he was there, we were like in and out of separation.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 just not good. And I was like, it's just like, I don't want to fake it.

Speaker 2 I don't want to fake it.

Speaker 1 Did people in your life know that this was happening? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Everyone in my life knew this was happening.

Speaker 2 Everyone in his life knew this was happening.

Speaker 1 How soon into the marriage did you guys get into couples therapy? Because I know you said you've been doing for years.

Speaker 2 Year

Speaker 2 two.

Speaker 1 And what was like the issue you kept reaching a standstill on to make you be like, we need to go to couples therapy?

Speaker 2 Just like feeling really lopsided. Just feeling like this relationship would not be alive

Speaker 2 if I didn't do everything. And I just, like, you gigging on the plane that I found and booked for you is not enough.

Speaker 1 When you, because I appreciate how you said earlier, like, everyone is going to have their own side. And I, like, really respect that everyone experiences it their own way.

Speaker 1 But from your recollection of how you felt in those moments, what would be his reasoning when you would come at him to be like, I'm literally doing fucking everything. Like, give me something.

Speaker 1 Like, what would he say?

Speaker 2 Um,

Speaker 2 I mean, he was busy too, you know, and I

Speaker 2 think I was maybe a little too nice about it. Um, but like

Speaker 2 he needed to do what he needed to do too.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 and also, by the way, like, I don't pin the whole downfall on him at all. I was not perfect.
He was not perfect. It was not perfect.

Speaker 2 And so there were definitely moments that I look back on where I'm like, oh, I should have done that different, or I could have showed up here. I could have taken the flight this time, whatever it is.

Speaker 2 And I, in the unraveling, that's definitely something that I ended up sharing with him.

Speaker 2 Just saying, like, I need to own the last few years of, like, I think I checked out a long time ago. And I need to, like, I need to let you know that.

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Speaker 1 Your pictures from your wedding were in People magazine.

Speaker 1 Yeah. How did the pressure of having a public relationship also impact how long you stayed? stayed? I

Speaker 2 think I'd be lying to say it didn't. I think there was a lot.
I think there were two levels of fear that I had to get past. One was that I was my parents.

Speaker 2 Like having that fear of like, you're doing what they did. How, how has this happened?

Speaker 1 Anything that how our parents fucked us up, we're like, I'm going to do it the complete opposite. I'm not going to let this happen to me.
Can you talk about your

Speaker 1 feelings towards having that as like a big thing in your head of like, I cannot fail because I don't want to be my parents. Like, how did that mentally and emotionally affect you?

Speaker 2 I think I

Speaker 1 got

Speaker 2 married because of my parents.

Speaker 2 I think I got divorced because of me.

Speaker 2 And I, I, like, I think me choosing to get out of that marriage was

Speaker 2 me kind of rewriting what divorce looks like and what it means.

Speaker 1 I was listening this morning and I remember hearing the line of like, I may be not getting this exact, but it's like we would text and in place of basically like sex.

Speaker 1 When did like you lose the spark in your relationship?

Speaker 2 Sex

Speaker 2 in my life and in my journey

Speaker 2 has been something that's taken a lot of

Speaker 2 work.

Speaker 2 I think I grew up really, really, really, really religious and I went to like a church of Christ college. And like, if you have sex before marriage, you're going to hell.

Speaker 2 That was like in my body, like, not just my mind, but like my body. And

Speaker 2 I had been with one other person before I got married. And it was a really negative sexual experience.
And it was in a relationship, but it just was not healthy at all.

Speaker 2 And so the way that I define sex was very one-sided, very for the man, very

Speaker 2 not a sense of connection at all. And then it was also littered with this, like, you're going to hell.

Speaker 2 And so then I got married and

Speaker 2 like had this shame around it going into it

Speaker 2 that made it really difficult for us to connect in that way from the very beginning. And I don't even think I understood what a good sexual relationship was.

Speaker 2 So I don't think I had anything to compare it to. It just was.

Speaker 2 When we saw each other,

Speaker 2 not very often,

Speaker 2 that would be something that I knew that he wanted and needed, and I wanted to be a good wife. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Were you lonely?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 for sure.

Speaker 2 But I will say, like,

Speaker 2 I learned the value in female friendship. Like, oh my God, so much.
Like, I'm an only child and I always wanted sisters so badly. And I'm going to cry, not this.

Speaker 2 But, like, that is such a gift that came out of it was, like, I

Speaker 2 have like such a good group of girlfriends that would like they have just shown up when it's not convenient. And

Speaker 2 I

Speaker 2 have a story. Yeah.
Because this to me is like

Speaker 2 this to me is

Speaker 2 just in a nutshell, the reason it ended and the reason that I am where I am and the reason that I'm fucking happy

Speaker 2 is

Speaker 2 there was a time that I was out here. I think it was 2019 and I get really, really,

Speaker 2 I get sad in LA. I don't know what it is.
And I didn't have a good group of friends out here yet. I do now.
In therapy, I was learning like, you can't expect your partner to read your mind.

Speaker 2 If you need something, ask for it. Like, that's going to lead to a healthier communication.

Speaker 2 And so I remember I called him and I was like, sobbing. And I was just like, I'm in a bad place.
I need you. Like, can you please get on a flight? Sent him the flight.

Speaker 2 And he didn't come.

Speaker 2 And I remember

Speaker 2 feeling like really embarrassed because I was vulnerable and I asked and I hate asking and all these things. And it was just a moment that I shared with my friends and whatever.

Speaker 2 And then last year I was on tour going through the divorce publicly, going on stage every night. And

Speaker 2 my best friend, Kelly, surprised me at my LA show.

Speaker 2 And it was such, it was so special. Like that whole show was so special.
And then the next day I had a day off. And we were driving in Malibu.

Speaker 2 And she looked at me and she was like, Hey, do you know why I'm here? And I was like, Because you wanted to see the Greek show.

Speaker 2 She's like, No, because in 2019, you had to ask for someone to come out here that should have known that he should have known. And you asked, and he didn't show up.

Speaker 2 And I'm here to show you that it's not that fucking hard.

Speaker 1 Who brought up the idea of divorce first?

Speaker 1 How did you begin that conversation? Take us to that moment.

Speaker 2 The moment I think it was over, over was I

Speaker 2 was realizing that I wasn't ready for kids, and that's a fundamental difference. And I don't, and I still don't, I don't know if I want kids at all or not.

Speaker 2 But that was something that we had talked about early on, and that was something that I was changing on, you know, because he was ready.

Speaker 2 He was like, I don't want to be an old dad, is what he kept saying. And I was like, I'm not, I just, I'm not there yet.

Speaker 2 And I can't, I can't do that to like save this and give you something that I'm not ready for. Like I just can't do that to myself.

Speaker 2 And I remember I went to

Speaker 2 get everything checked to see if I could freeze my eggs and I didn't tell him.

Speaker 2 And I took him out to dinner and I was like, for my 30th birthday, I want to freeze my eggs. And it was

Speaker 2 not a good day. It was not a good day.

Speaker 2 And I think that was when I was like,

Speaker 2 there's a fundamental difference here that has happened and that has shifted. And it's no longer like, I don't see this person, I miss this person, I'm alone, I'm lonely.

Speaker 2 It's like, he wants something out of life that I'm, I don't think I'm, I don't, I'm not there. And whether I'll get there or not, I don't think it's with this person if it is.

Speaker 2 And I think internally, in hindsight, that's where I went. Like,

Speaker 2 I think maybe we need to rethink this, Kelsey.

Speaker 1 First of all, I really respect you having that moment within yourself to be like, because of now kind of getting to know you, you're like, I have people pleasing tendencies.

Speaker 1 I sometimes have a hard time with saying no. And so I'm just going to go with the flow and I'm going to go with it.

Speaker 1 There's a lot of people that have children to save a marriage. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And that is.

Speaker 1 I mean, children are beautiful things, but like not to save a marriage.

Speaker 1 And so the fact that you had that internal strength to be like, I know this is never going to be something that I can do just to save this. It sounds like there was a very bad reaction.

Speaker 1 Do you think had he been like loving and sweet about it, would you be in this situation?

Speaker 2 I think at the end of the day,

Speaker 2 even the fact that I was having the conversation of freezing my eggs,

Speaker 2 that was telling me that we were on different pages with it.

Speaker 2 You know, he was like ready, ready. And I was wanting to freeze my eggs a year and a half from then.
Right.

Speaker 1 So when did you have like the conversation that you wanted a divorce?

Speaker 2 In August.

Speaker 2 But we had kind of been separated and I had asked for a separation and so we were like switching off in the house and I was like living with my mom if I wasn't on the road.

Speaker 2 And then I went on this girls trip to Napa with like all my girlfriends and I just felt joy, like pure joy. And that was and I and I wasn't sharing it with them, like, we weren't talking, you know?

Speaker 2 And I was just like, yeah, this,

Speaker 2 I like this version of myself so much more.

Speaker 1 So, did you end up having like a conversation with him? Or did you just, when did that happen?

Speaker 2 Um,

Speaker 2 a couple weeks later, when I saw him in person, um,

Speaker 2 and it was like a really beautiful conversation, if I'm honest with you. You know, I was just really honest.
I just said, like, I,

Speaker 2 I've, I've loved, I've loved what this has brought

Speaker 2 in my life, and I respect you, and

Speaker 2 I respect me, and because of that, I can no longer be in this marriage, and, um,

Speaker 2 and I really want to do this together, and I really want to, like, honor the good that we've experienced by doing this the right way. And, um,

Speaker 2 and like, it was, it was beautiful. Like, we cried, we hugged, it was sweet, and then something changed.
And I don't, I haven't talked to him since.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow you never spoke through like the lawyers and everything that was it that was the last day you spoke

Speaker 2 wow yeah he'll like after that conversation obviously you lawyer up and you tell you tell your team and you get your people and yeah and um yeah and everything kind of just shifted how does that make you feel that you haven't spoken I mean I'm at peace with it now At first, I was just like, I just felt like, you know, we had had a conversation of like, like, let's, let's do this right.

Speaker 2 Like, this doesn't have to be,

Speaker 2 this doesn't have to be nasty. This doesn't have to be what I've experienced divorce to look like.

Speaker 1 It got nasty. Yeah.

Speaker 2 It did.

Speaker 2 He released a song about your divorce.

Speaker 1 And this was before it was finalized.

Speaker 2 This was

Speaker 2 weeks after we decided.

Speaker 1 And you had no idea the song was coming out.

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 1 Some of the lyrics, and these are like not even some of the, I'm not going to say the worst, but like it was, how long have you been waiting to take our pictures down? Why am I just finding out?

Speaker 1 I was reading the lyrics and I was like, oh shit. Like from my interpretation, I was like, he is like blaming you.

Speaker 1 Like, you have like known all along that you weren't in this and like I'm blindsided and like why are you just like randomly last minute telling me like this this is pretty fucked up when you heard the song and when you hear the lyrics what does it make you feel

Speaker 2 Oh,

Speaker 2 so angry.

Speaker 2 So angry. That's like that.
I felt pretty, I had a pretty good grasp on like my grieving journey until that song came out. And I was livid.
I think that maybe there's a world where he was blindsided.

Speaker 2 I did not blindside him.

Speaker 2 I think two things can be true.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I, I think, like, if he truly was blindsided, then where was he? And that's the point.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because you write,

Speaker 1 were you blindsided or were you just blind? The truth is hard to hear, but it wasn't hard to find.

Speaker 1 Can you explain your like mentality when you were writing these lyrics? And like, where were you at trying to explain this?

Speaker 2 I mean, I think I was just kind of like putting examples in there. Like, we were in therapy for years.
Like, remember that time that I slept on the couch before the CMA Awards?

Speaker 2 And then we like walked the carpet, like, with bags under our eyes, because we'd been fighting, like, but not really fighting. Because,

Speaker 2 like, you know, I was just like, again, if that is your narrative, if that's true to you, like, where were you?

Speaker 1 How does it feel, though, to like, in that moment, now be going, like, back and forth in songs with your ex-husband?

Speaker 2 I feel...

Speaker 2 If I'm being honest, like, I felt like it was really opportunistic for him to put that out when he did, when we were still going through the legalities of getting divorced. And

Speaker 2 I felt really used in that moment.

Speaker 2 And again, his healing journey is his healing journey. I respect that, but publicly exploiting it feels a little nasty to me before it's final.

Speaker 2 Now we're like months past it, you know, we're moving on.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I've taken the time to like actually sit in in my feelings and like go through that grieving process and take ownership of what I brought to the table too, you know? And

Speaker 2 that's why like this EP has been, like I'm nervous to put it out for sure.

Speaker 2 But I wish I would have had it in August.

Speaker 2 I wish in August when I was like, I'm blowing up my life. I'm doing it.

Speaker 2 That someone would have had those six songs that I could have listened to to like go through the intricacies of the emotions of

Speaker 2 everything that you think your life is going to look like. It's not.

Speaker 1 When you were saying it got nasty, it obviously feels like it's not just because he wrote a song. No, no.
Can you share?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean,

Speaker 2 I want to like protect him weirdly in this.

Speaker 2 But like

Speaker 2 one thing that was he was so die-hard about in the beginning was like, I don't ever want people to think that I'm like using you or writing any coattails or like trying to get opportunities through you or any of that.

Speaker 2 And I never felt like he did. I never felt like he did.
Like, to my core, even now, I'm like, I believe, I have to believe that this man

Speaker 2 was purely just in love with me, not artist me, like, me, me, you know. And

Speaker 2 then we got divorced, and who you marry is not who you divorce. And, um,

Speaker 2 like,

Speaker 2 you know, as he's putting out a song

Speaker 2 about being blindsided, he's taking half the house that he didn't pay for.

Speaker 1 So, you didn't get a prenup?

Speaker 2 I did get a prenup.

Speaker 2 It was kind of like that or alimony.

Speaker 2 What the fuck? What the fuck? I remember being on tour and

Speaker 2 I had just gone home. I had like

Speaker 2 two shows and then one night off and I flew home to pack up my shit in the house because we were listing it and flew back to Denver and got on a call with my manager and my lawyer and they're like,

Speaker 2 you know, like he wants half the house. That's how they're reading the prenup.

Speaker 2 Or there's there's messy alimony language.

Speaker 2 And I and I just remember being on the phone being like, can you articulate to me that I have like a choice right now to either give up half of a house that I bought.

Speaker 2 That I bought and he contributed, but not equal.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 or say legally in this marriage and have like public alimony hearings indefinitely? And they're like, that's correct. And I was like, give him the house.
I want out. I want out.
Give me out.

Speaker 1 How did that make you feel when you got that?

Speaker 2 Like, shit.

Speaker 2 Here's the thing. And this is the thing that I still have to work on it makes me not trust myself it makes me not trust myself because i'm like

Speaker 2 hurt people hurt people i totally get that and i have grace i really do because i do i do know that he was hurt and is hurt but like

Speaker 2 how did i how was i married to this person for this long and i had no idea that that that bit of character was tucked within that human being that's what's hard for me. That's what's hard for me.

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I love it. I love it.

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Speaker 1 When I go all the way back to the beginning of this interview and your friends were like, you have way more to gain than she does. Don't let him take blah blah blah.
And then I get it.

Speaker 1 The feeling of like, oh my God, it's fucking happening. Yeah.
It's, it's all happening. It's a a really shit feeling.
And I also appreciate you being like, I have to somewhat blame myself.

Speaker 1 Like, that it, it's hard to,

Speaker 1 you got to, like, look inward of like, what did I miss?

Speaker 2 It takes two to tango. Totally.
Totally. And I think anyone that like looks at the downfall of any kind of relationship and just points their finger has a lot of work to do on themselves, you know?

Speaker 2 Like, I've, I take a lot of ownership. And I've like, you know, I write in the, I write in there, like, I've shared all my secrets and I've paid for all my crimes.

Speaker 2 Like, I was not perfect, but I gave my honesty to who I owed it to.

Speaker 1 When you look back at this whole situation,

Speaker 1 what part of yourself do you feel like you

Speaker 1 lost or you kind of like silenced and pushed down during that marriage?

Speaker 2 That now you're like, whoa, like, look at me now. Like, I feel like I'm like awake.

Speaker 2 I think that I allowed there to be such a fear around getting divorced at 29.

Speaker 2 I think for me,

Speaker 2 I think he

Speaker 2 loved me more at 23.

Speaker 2 And I loved me more at 29.

Speaker 1 How are you finding a more positive spin than rather accepting the shame that society puts on women of like, oh, God, she's divorced?

Speaker 2 I think it's just all about forward motion. You know, like,

Speaker 2 first of all, asking yourself the question, would you rather be lonely in a relationship or lonely alone?

Speaker 2 Coming to terms with that,

Speaker 2 blowing up your life

Speaker 2 just and letting it letting the dust settle where it's going to that's been hard for me i love that you use the word blowing up your life because i really do feel

Speaker 1 white picket fence no yeah and i feel like it feels that way right and i bet so many people listening are in a situation where they're like

Speaker 1 oh fuck i wish i was you kelsey because i haven't blown my shit up yet and I'm just staying in it because I don't know how to end it.

Speaker 1 And I don't know if you have any advice to someone of like, how the fuck do you get the courage? Because in your mind, you actually are saying, I'm about to blow my life up. You're not.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 But like, but I, it's, I'm not, I would say the same thing if I was going through it. It feels like that in the moment.

Speaker 1 So, how do you, now that you're on the other side of it, to speak to people maybe that are like, I can't blow my life up.

Speaker 1 Like, our families like each other and our friends and our lives are entangled. Like, we have a house together.
We may have kids together. Like,

Speaker 1 what do you say to someone that's like stuck in it?

Speaker 2 I think asking yourself what the worst case scenario is. Like is the worst case scenario feeling like you're feeling forever? Or is it his mom being mad at you?

Speaker 2 Is it TMZ running a story?

Speaker 2 Is that the worst case scenario? It's all right.

Speaker 1 You're right. Worst case is fucking staying in something that makes you miserable.

Speaker 2 Worst case is staying in something where you are

Speaker 2 not honoring yourself. And in doing that, you're not honoring them.
And you're not allowing them to go live the life that they want to live.

Speaker 1 You go through this divorce, you are like, oh my god, Alex, we're like, let's take a sip of water.

Speaker 2 You're like, okay, I don't know what to do.

Speaker 1 We should have been fucking drinking.

Speaker 2 We should have been.

Speaker 1 So, you go through this divorce. Yeah.
You're finding yourself. You're figuring your shit out.

Speaker 2 Yes, ma'am.

Speaker 1 How did you know you were ready to date again?

Speaker 2 Oh, God. Am I ready to date again?

Speaker 2 Looks like you're.

Speaker 2 I don't know. You know,

Speaker 2 listen, I think, obviously, he and I's healing journeys are different. I think I grieved a lot of the marriage and the marriage.
And so I think I was ready to open back up.

Speaker 2 And I don't, I actually have no idea what his journey is right now, but

Speaker 2 I've just felt, why not? Yeah. Why not? I've never really dated.
I don't know how it works. I'm like, well, let's just put ourselves out there.
Let's just vibe. And

Speaker 2 it's been fun.

Speaker 1 I love that too, because I feel like, and I get it, like we just talked about like a bunch of like a relationship and divorce. And then I'm like, so what about dating? It's like,

Speaker 1 you got to move on.

Speaker 2 You have to move on. You have to.
Am I just supposed to stay here? No. Be sad forever? Please don't, right? You deserve better.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Are you single?

Speaker 2 Am I single?

Speaker 2 Am I single?

Speaker 2 Gosh.

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 1 I just want to be so clear on Caller Daddy. Every time I ask someone if they're single, if it's not an immediate, yeah, you didn't even have to say no, no.
You're like, um,

Speaker 1 I know, I know, I know, I know.

Speaker 2 Should I go to the bathroom?

Speaker 1 So you're dating Chase Jokes.

Speaker 2 I'm just vibing.

Speaker 2 Okay, well, I want to say you guys are. I'm sweating.

Speaker 2 You're like, no, Call.

Speaker 1 Okay, can I ask you? Yes.

Speaker 2 I appreciate anything.

Speaker 2 At this point, we go way back. Jesus.

Speaker 1 We saw the photo of you and Chase, and now there's more photos of you and Chase. What does it feel like, though, to

Speaker 1 have that be so public? And like, did you at all think about your ex and like what he would think when he saw those photos?

Speaker 2 No. No.
Well, no, because I'm not married to him anymore. And I don't need to care about his feelings anymore.
Right.

Speaker 2 And I mean that with all the respect in the world, but his journey is not mine anymore.

Speaker 2 And so I hope that he is protected from whatever he needs to be protected from seeing. I hope he has people in his life that help him do that.
That is not my job. How did you?

Speaker 2 That's going to be a hot take and I'm going to get picked apart for that.

Speaker 1 What are you supposed to do? Not do stuff because an ex is going to see it.

Speaker 2 And I'm not exploiting

Speaker 2 what I am or am not doing.

Speaker 2 Well, you're about to right now. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.

Speaker 2 Yeah, no, I, because I do want to be respectful. And

Speaker 2 also, it's new. Everything's new for me.

Speaker 2 Dating,

Speaker 2 um,

Speaker 2 being photographed with someone, like it's all really new.

Speaker 2 And I'm tiptoeing and I'm, I'm, like, happy and I'm really relearning a lot about myself and how I show up in a relationship and how I show up for myself. And

Speaker 2 it's been like a really beautiful

Speaker 2 reawakening, I guess. And I love how you're trying to fluff around.

Speaker 1 I'm about to come right back in. How did you guys meet?

Speaker 2 I slid into the DMs.

Speaker 1 I fucking love when people sign into DMs. What did you say?

Speaker 2 Well, I was just like, I'm not gonna get on an app. And I and honestly, you know, he shoots in Charleston and my manager lives there.
And he like put the bug in my ear.

Speaker 2 He was like, you know who's really cute? Like, when you're ready, it's Chase. And I was like, you're so right.
And I've never seen the show, but I just knew of him.

Speaker 2 And yeah, so I followed him and he followed me. And I just swanned over it on him.

Speaker 1 You have to not maybe give us the exact, but give us an idea of like what the fuck are you sliding in with?

Speaker 2 His handle is hi, Chase Stokes, and I said, Hi, Chase Stokes.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow, and then he immediately answered, You guys kind of

Speaker 1 look at you,

Speaker 2 we're manifesting, baby.

Speaker 1 Okay, so now that you're kind of in a now, a new relationship, how are you in your head? Are you letting yourself just go for it? Are you being mindful about it? Like, do you have a certain

Speaker 1 different way about going into a relationship now with what you've learned in your past?

Speaker 2 For sure. Share.
Oh, I just, I feel, I feel like

Speaker 2 because I'm in, I think I'm finally an adult. I think that just happened over the last couple of years.
And I feel like what that means to me is like, I have opinions.

Speaker 2 I have a career that is a priority for me to show up for myself and the people that I've aligned with along this journey.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I have aspirations and goals that are tied to no one. And those are all really important things.
I have my shit together. You know what I mean? And for me to share that that with anyone is a gift.
And

Speaker 2 I want to be with someone that feels the same way about their life. And

Speaker 2 I want it to feel even that middle ground that I'm so bad at. I'm eager to find it.

Speaker 1 Okay, you have to just give us a little insight of like going on a date with someone and then a photo of them just being like all over the internet. What do the two of you say when that shit happens?

Speaker 1 Like when you're sitting in your apartment or you're with him or you're in your house, where the fuck are you?

Speaker 2 What are you guys saying when that comes out wherever you are what is happening when that comes out well he he kind of full scent it a little bit um

Speaker 2 so

Speaker 2 basically we had been hanging out and people got a photo of us um at the game at the championship and so that was kind of just going and he was like i mean it's gonna keep going so should i just like poke the bear and i was like sure and that the poking the bear was like a photo of me just like

Speaker 2 leaning on him.

Speaker 1 How long had you guys been together before that photo leaked?

Speaker 2 I mean, we weren't even together is like so relative. I don't even really know.
Like we had been talking for

Speaker 2 since the beginning of December. Okay.

Speaker 1 So you were just like, we're just going for it.

Speaker 2 You're having fun.

Speaker 2 I'm having fun.

Speaker 1 What is your mentality now around marriage, getting married again? Would you ever do it? How do you feel about it?

Speaker 2 Anytime I've said a hard no to something, I've come back later in my life and challenged it. So right now, I would say I don't think I will get married again.

Speaker 2 I love the idea, again, of partnership. I'm a relationship bitch, but

Speaker 2 I don't know if I believe in like the legality of it all anymore. And I think if you want to be with someone, it should be a daily choice.

Speaker 2 I am also just fresh out of like a, that was like a brutal moment. So um, subject to change, right?

Speaker 1 You're like, alimony.

Speaker 2 You're like, marriage is awful.

Speaker 1 I get it. I get it.
What would you say to someone right now in this moment that's listening, watching, and is going through heartbreak?

Speaker 2 Oh,

Speaker 2 um,

Speaker 2 I would say,

Speaker 2 be proud of how you're going to handle it in 10 years.

Speaker 2 I would say, only way out is through.

Speaker 2 And I would say, like,

Speaker 2 tequila.

Speaker 2 So much, tequila.

Speaker 1 I love you. You're like, so much, Tequila.
It gets you right to the middle. It's going to be all right.
It's going to be all right.

Speaker 1 What would you say to 22-year-old Kelsey right now in the seat where you're sitting?

Speaker 2 Oh my God.

Speaker 2 Oh, what would I tell myself at 22?

Speaker 2 You are going to learn that pissing people off is okay. And actually, it's necessary.

Speaker 2 You are going to learn that you can be a good person and not good for somebody.

Speaker 2 You are going to learn that

Speaker 2 your circle needs to shrink a little bit. And that's going to hurt.
And that's going to be awesome.

Speaker 2 And you're going to learn that

Speaker 2 29 is gonna look a hell of a lot different than you thought it would and so far so good Kelsey ballerini thank you so much for coming on call her daddy thank you so much Alex

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