Courtney Stodden (FBF)

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Speaker 1 What's up, daddy gang? It is your founding father back at it again for another episode of Call Her Daddy. Before I start this episode, I need to preface this with a trigger warning.

Speaker 1 This interview contains references to abuse of a minor.

Speaker 1 Again, this is a trigger warning and listener discretion is advised. If this episode is not for you, I love you and I will see you next week.

Speaker 2 Okay,

Speaker 1 Daddy Gang.

Speaker 1 If you are familiar with today's guest, you probably know them from the headline the media used to define them in 2011. Courtney Stodden, a 16-year-old child bride, marries a man in his 50s.

Speaker 1 I was also 16 when this story was on the front cover of every fucking tabloid. this man was hired by Courtney's mom to be Courtney's acting coach.
It turned predatory.

Speaker 1 Courtney's parents knew and let it continue.

Speaker 1 And I remember when Courtney Stodden was signed away by their parents and granted permission to marry this dude in his 50s.

Speaker 1 At the time, Courtney received endless online hate and negative media coverage. Again, Courtney, a child,

Speaker 1 received death threats, was stalked by the paparazzi, sexualized, labeled a whore.

Speaker 1 This was a 16-year-old.

Speaker 1 Meanwhile, if you look back at all the media coverage, it's like they forgot about the adult in the situation, the 50-year-old fucking creep Courtney married, Doug Hutchison.

Speaker 1 This washed up actor would have been a pedophile if he had pursued a relationship with 16-year-old Courtney.

Speaker 1 But instead, Courtney's parents willingly welcomed Doug into their family and legally permitted the marriage.

Speaker 1 After suffering abuse at the hands of countless adults and reality TV shows, being exploited,

Speaker 1 Courtney is now 27, gotten into therapy and started a recovery journey. Listen,

Speaker 1 I had not kept up with Courtney Stodden. And sitting down with Courtney, I realized the reality of how layered their story is and how deeply the media betrayed that 16-year-old child.

Speaker 1 This is a story of child abuse that began 10 years ago. And after finalizing their divorce in 2020, Courtney is now beginning to process what it means to be a survivor.

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Speaker 1 What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call Her Daddy, Daddy, Daddy, Daddy.

Speaker 2 I will probably take five minutes to get comfortable. So

Speaker 2 sorry.

Speaker 2 I think it's just this large thing in front of my face. It's like unnatural.
Giving me a little PTSD, maybe.

Speaker 2 Just want to like push it around. They all look the same to me at this point, honestly.

Speaker 1 Okay, let's drink our water.

Speaker 1 Would you prefer we were drinking vodka?

Speaker 2 Actually, yeah.

Speaker 1 We could maybe get some drinks in here in a little bit.

Speaker 2 I am down. Okay, I mean what do you like? Your show.

Speaker 1 I'm down to drink. What kind of alcohol do you like?

Speaker 2 I'll just do whatever you have.

Speaker 1 We have vodka or tequila, right?

Speaker 2 I think vodka, probably.

Speaker 1 I'll take tequila.

Speaker 2 I like that.

Speaker 1 It's like, welcome to Caller Daddy. It's noon on a Wednesday, and we are popping the bottles open.

Speaker 2 We were out, like getting some like, you know, like a diva day and the entire place turned into a bar in like how long?

Speaker 2 Seconds. In seconds, yeah.
Are we recording?

Speaker 1 Okay, yeah, maybe this will be the intro of us just summoning our drinks. We're like, get me some fucking alcohol because it's about to get emotional.

Speaker 2 I think we're going to need it for this. I do too.
Honestly, I do too. Yeah.

Speaker 1 45 minutes later, Courtney and I have taken 12 shots. We've fixed our flyaways.
We've eaten the mic.

Speaker 2 And I think we're ready for therapy. I think we're ready for therapy.

Speaker 1 Cheers.

Speaker 2 Cheers. Cheers.
It's just so funny to meet you. It's amazing to meet you.

Speaker 1 We are the same age. And I remember seeing your story when I was like 15, 16.
I remember watching it kind of unfolding in the news. And since then, so much has happened in your life.

Speaker 1 And I really appreciate you sitting down with me. You live in L.A.?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I live in Brentwood area. Love that area.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 How long have you lived there?

Speaker 2 I've lived there probably for like a year and a half now. And Kamala Harris is my neighbor.
So bougie bitch.

Speaker 2 It was just really shocking because I'm in the middle of studying for my license. Finally, a 20 freaking seven years old, like finally.

Speaker 2 you know, passed my permit, like trying to get my license. And I'm like trying to drive home and there is like so much traffic on this little street.
Couldn't figure it out.

Speaker 2 And then I like, I went too fast and one of these guys was like, it was like, I don't know, like a security guard. He goes, you don't just slow down.

Speaker 2 You know, Kamala Harris is getting trying to go home. And I'm just like, what the heck? Wow, that's status right there.

Speaker 1 That's also LA. Like how fucking just casual that you're just like neighbors with Kamala.
You're like, what's up?

Speaker 2 So crazy.

Speaker 1 Have you ever seen her?

Speaker 2 I've tried. Like since then, I've kind of like been this, like, I've been driving really slow with my permit, you know? Like looking over at her house.

Speaker 1 Like literally two miles an hour, just like so creepy.

Speaker 2 Right. I know, but there's like security in front.
So I think they're starting to kind of look at me like,

Speaker 2 why is this bitch looking so fragile?

Speaker 2 But it's just, yeah, it's amazing. I mean, I, it was the first time I ever voted in my adult life.
And I voted for Kamala. And that's such a cool moment.
Our president. Yeah.
It comes full circle.

Speaker 1 Now you're just casually neighbors. You must live in a nice neighborhood, Courtney.

Speaker 1 You're like, no comment. Absolutely.

Speaker 1 Did you always have aspirations to move to LA? Like, when you were a little girl, did you want to be like famous? Like, what did you want to be?

Speaker 2 I've always loved music. I always wanted to pursue that at a really, really young age.
And my mom, she was always very supportive of it. I think that she found a lot of

Speaker 2 entertainment in supporting her daughter as well.

Speaker 2 And so her and I just kind of like became this almost like a mammadur to me. And then, you know, was that mindset of helping her daughter.

Speaker 1 When and why did your parents decide to homeschool you?

Speaker 2 My father wasn't involved in that situation, he wasn't

Speaker 2 contributing at all to the

Speaker 2 decision to pull me out, nor did he really know that I was being completely abused and bullied at school. In sixth grade, I was pulled out because I was bullied.

Speaker 2 I mean, I got a lot of like my old friends bullying me, and you know, my arm was broken at one point.

Speaker 2 Um,

Speaker 2 and I just was that kid that was really popular before I hit puberty, and then when I hit puberty, I was treated so differently.

Speaker 2 And as a child, like, you really don't understand why you're being treated differently.

Speaker 2 Assault emails that I was getting from, you know, the future middle school and stuff, you know, they're gonna knock my teeth down my face and you know, know they're going to

Speaker 2 you know just it's just gonna be a really horrible experience for me so my mom pulled me out because of that yeah at that time your dad was not in your life you know I think in looking back at it I feel like my father completely left me emotionally abandoned and I don't know if he's that type of

Speaker 2 man to be able to properly emotionally be there for their child it just doesn't seem that way because history wouldn't have been the way it is for me, like my life, right?

Speaker 2 It all kind of falls back to that relationship.

Speaker 1 So many young women go through that and then it directly affects their romantic relationships with the marriage.

Speaker 2 Absolutely. We will be getting to.

Speaker 1 You got married to a man in his 50s when you were 16.

Speaker 1 His name is Doug Hutchison.

Speaker 1 How did you meet Doug? Let's take a

Speaker 1 Courtney's grabbing for the vodka. We're like, hold on, let's take a sip of our drink.
Here we go. Let's get into Doug.
How did you meet Doug?

Speaker 2 Doug and I met through

Speaker 2 a mutual friend. So the mutual friend manager introduced my family to Doug because Doug was teaching acting classes here in LA.

Speaker 2 And I always kind of expressed, you know, interest also in singing, but in acting. And

Speaker 2 that's how we connected was through email.

Speaker 1 Email. Yeah.
So you got connected with him on email.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 what were the initial conversations you were having with him via email?

Speaker 2 I think I just need a little break for a second. Yeah, yeah, take your time.

Speaker 1 Sorry. No, take your time.

Speaker 1 What's coming up for you right now?

Speaker 2 I'm still healing from this.

Speaker 2 It's very,

Speaker 2 very, very fresh for me.

Speaker 2 I wore a waterproof mascara specifically. I never wear waterproof mascara.
You're fine.

Speaker 2 But we met through a mutual friend. We started connecting through email.

Speaker 2 And my mom and this, you know, our mutual friend,

Speaker 2 Tim, his name's Tim Wilson. He didn't know

Speaker 2 about

Speaker 2 the exchanges that Doug was having with me.

Speaker 2 My mom did. She was aware.
She was like over my shoulder the entire time, practically, or having me print out the emails and she was reading them.

Speaker 2 And,

Speaker 2 you know, nothing was sexual, but it was definitely not about what it was supposed to be about, which was about teaching me acting and, you know,

Speaker 2 all of that stuff that, you know, professionally you're supposed to be doing.

Speaker 2 And then as a child, I didn't really see it as anything predatory. I mean, I don't think children have that capacity to really see that, especially if

Speaker 2 they don't feel like they have a proper relationship with their father. You know, there were just questions like, you know, what's your favorite color? And, you know,

Speaker 2 where do you see yourself in five years? And, you know, let's play 10 questions. And then we're going to get to know each other that way first.

Speaker 2 You know, after that, then I can kind of help teach you, you know, where I think you'd fall good in acting. And just all of this BS now, I know in retrospect, right? It's just a way to

Speaker 2 start figuring out the child and to get your claws in them.

Speaker 2 you know, control them.

Speaker 1 Did he know what you looked like? Because you were only communicating on email. Did he know your age? And did he know what you looked like?

Speaker 2 He knew what I looked like.

Speaker 2 My manager at the time sent him pictures and he was very much aware of what I looked like. But he claims that, you know, he's never known my age.
He never knew my age. It's not true.
He did because...

Speaker 2 My mom received a call from him and he said, you know, so I really want to start teaching your daughter acting. And she goes, okay, well, you know, she's only,

Speaker 2 you know, she just turned 16.

Speaker 2 And he knew my age. Absolutely, he did.

Speaker 1 Did you know how old he was?

Speaker 2 I did, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So you were saying that your mom was like printing out the emails and looking over them with you. Do you remember your mom ever saying anything

Speaker 1 to be careful of? Or was it, was she condoning this during the time too?

Speaker 2 My mom has always been a very protective mother. I mean, just going back and kind of trying

Speaker 2 shine a little light on my backstory a little bit.

Speaker 2 My mom has gotten a lot of hate and I understand why. I mean if you know if I ever have a baby and I'm raising that baby,

Speaker 2 from my own experiences, I would never sign my kid off ever to an adult man. you know, 34 years old.
Like there's just no way that would happen.

Speaker 2 But I think that she thought she was doing something something that was going to make me happy. Truthfully, I really believe that.

Speaker 2 But in retrospect, she knows it was the wrong decision.

Speaker 2 She's even apologized to me so many times and has said, you know, if I could just do anything to do over, I would, I'm just so sorry I wouldn't sign off on this.

Speaker 1 How long were the two of you speaking online before you met in person?

Speaker 2 We spoke online and on the phone for six months.

Speaker 2 And then

Speaker 2 I met him in person. He came to my hometown.

Speaker 1 And what were the expectations of him coming? Like, what was the purpose of that trip?

Speaker 2 I believe it was obviously to see his child in person,

Speaker 2 verify the parents are on board. I'm not going to go to jail and I can get that free pass to molest a child.
I just need that paperwork. signed for me to get married because it's a loophole.
Right.

Speaker 2 And then then a week later, we got married. So I basically just met him in person one week.
And then a week later, I'm married.

Speaker 1 But just to get context, so you had fully had a conversation of this is a relationship before you met in person. Like that was now in the works fully.
And your mom was aware of it.

Speaker 2 I was already groomed before I met him.

Speaker 1 Yeah. He comes into town.
What was that like with him meeting your parents and everything? Like, do you remember that week?

Speaker 2 Um, I do, but there was a specific moment that really stands out to me. After picking him up from the airport, my father was driving.

Speaker 2 My mom was there. Felt like I had support.
My dad just said he needed to meet him in person and then he could just sign off on it,

Speaker 2 which in retrospect makes me extremely angry. He was in his very own

Speaker 2 fragile state of mind at that point in the marriage with my mother. My mother was in a very bad place with my father.

Speaker 2 So this was like a perfect, like, you know grooming situation for someone right um like doug

Speaker 2 i remember being

Speaker 2 you know picking doug up from sea-tac driving about an hour and a half to a cafe

Speaker 2 and i thought maybe at least it would take the entire weekend for my father to then talk to me and say you know i don't know if you you know

Speaker 2 i feel like i really did want to marry doug because i thought i was in love with him but there was also something in me as a child that made me

Speaker 2 question if my father really loved me.

Speaker 2 So it was like this, you know, dichotomy. And so when we got to that diner, we had a little lunch.

Speaker 2 My dad immediately, before they ate their lunch, took Doug outside and said, you know what, you have my blessing.

Speaker 2 He didn't even see him for maybe

Speaker 2 an hour.

Speaker 2 They didn't talk. My dad was driving.
Doug was in the back seat. And he gave Doug the blessing to take his child away from him.
You know, even if he did feel like,

Speaker 2 you know, his family was falling apart and all these things, like, I feel like he did choose himself.

Speaker 1 Did your dad ever pull you aside and ask how you were feeling?

Speaker 2 He did

Speaker 2 before we met Doug, but it was just like five minutes in my bedroom, kind of took my hands. I said, is this what you want?

Speaker 2 I know he was arguing with my mom. I could hear them screaming, you know, throughout the house.
And

Speaker 2 he, he just, but I just think he gives up so quickly. That's just the kind of person he is.
He just kind of like runs away from issues. And he's so, I mean,

Speaker 2 you know, it just makes sense why this happened. Right.
And it happens to so many other children in the USA. I mean, about 300,000 children, underage children, were married to adults

Speaker 2 between the years of 2000 and 2018. And 86%

Speaker 2 of those children are girls. And it's in this country.
We think of child bride as some foreign situation, but it is

Speaker 2 so prevalent in the USA. Yeah.

Speaker 1 right now and it's terrifying and some as young as 10 years old did doug treat you like an adult, or did he treat you like a child?

Speaker 2 I think that it's pretty obvious that he looked at me like a child, but wanted to treat me like some kind of object.

Speaker 1 How did he pitch you on getting married? Why couldn't you guys just date?

Speaker 2 I grew up in a really

Speaker 2 Christian family.

Speaker 2 And I was a virgin when I met Doug. And,

Speaker 2 you know, because of my mom's own,

Speaker 2 again,

Speaker 2 I mean, I'm going through this in therapy, so I'm not yet healed from all of this. But, you know,

Speaker 2 she

Speaker 2 believed that this guy would really take care of me and really love me.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 she was also in a position to feel

Speaker 2 like she could believe him. I mean, she really did.

Speaker 2 You know,

Speaker 2 I'm just going to say it. When I went through this divorce process with Doug, I found out that right after I left him, he started pursuing a 15-year-old girl in the UK.

Speaker 2 And I have all of the proof. I have all of the emails.

Speaker 2 I

Speaker 2 got connected with an ex

Speaker 2 assault victim.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 he was doing the same thing to another 15-year-old girl while I was going through this process.

Speaker 2 Um, is there a tissue? Yep,

Speaker 2 I'm I'm I'm still working through all of this.

Speaker 1 So you're going through the divorce, and you find out he's already on to his next victim.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 2 I found out through um

Speaker 2 I found out through uh

Speaker 2 a step, a stepmother who reached out to me on Instagram and

Speaker 2 I just, I can't tell you how

Speaker 2 much that broke me, like even after all of like the control. I felt like I didn't even have control over my own body, my own finances.
I couldn't sign any legal documents in that marriage.

Speaker 2 I couldn't, you know, sign off on my own marriage. Like, I was just so controlled.
But then I think that there's this

Speaker 2 trauma bond that happens when you're that age. Like, right? You have, like, this.
I don't want to say I had Stockholm syndrome,

Speaker 2 but

Speaker 2 there's this grooming. It's the effects and the mental effects of grooming.
Right.

Speaker 2 Where I didn't want to believe, you know, right? I mean, a few people reach out. I just didn't want to believe it.
I just.

Speaker 2 you know, it's not what, how he made me feel. He made me feel really, really special and unique.

Speaker 1 I just really

Speaker 2 believed him and then just finding out

Speaker 2 everything it just it's just

Speaker 2 you know horrible

Speaker 2 and then reading that you know that he's he's doing he's ready to marry another minor I just helped with the attorneys there get this little girl away from him wow It just became my mission because I know exactly what he was doing.

Speaker 2 I saw the emails. They were the same emails to me.
And they were the same

Speaker 2 letters because in 96, same letters he was writing in his handwriting to this other 15-year-old girl. It just clicked that I was with

Speaker 2 a predator

Speaker 2 and I never, I never, I was just so groomed, I never wanted to believe it.

Speaker 1 Legally, how were you able to marry Doug?

Speaker 2 I was able to marry Doug because my mom signed off on on the paperwork.

Speaker 1 Did your parents prior to that or any adult have a conversation with you of like, this is what's going to change in your life if you marry this man?

Speaker 2 Did anybody have that conversation with me? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like, hey, if you get, you're about to get married at 16, like, this is what's going to happen. No.

Speaker 2 No. I mean, I really didn't even know what was going to happen on the honeymoon.

Speaker 2 I had no idea, really.

Speaker 1 Your wedding day,

Speaker 1 you're walking down that aisle.

Speaker 1 What do you remember

Speaker 2 feeling on that day?

Speaker 2 I was beyond nervous because I just wanted to play the part for him. Like I wanted him to be

Speaker 2 impressed with me, like I was a woman.

Speaker 2 I mean, I was a kid. So I feel like I was playing dress up

Speaker 2 in a sense, but I was so madly in love with with him that I just like, I don't know, it was just this really strange

Speaker 2 feeling that I always carried with me. And I mean, the photo of my father walking me down the aisle is really interesting to me because he has this look on his face.

Speaker 2 I mean, you can Google, like, it's he has this look on his face where he's just so

Speaker 2 angry,

Speaker 2 but he's still doing it,

Speaker 2 Which, which was really, you know, it's just, I don't know.

Speaker 1 How does it make you feel when you look at that photo?

Speaker 2 Angry. Yeah,

Speaker 2 I definitely know, like, though, the more awareness and therapy, and the more I come to terms and like go through all of these things,

Speaker 2 I'm seeing things so much more clearly. It's so hard to see something so clearly when you're the one who is in, you know, that spotlight and you get so much,

Speaker 2 you know, support but hate and like all of that like it's so hard to just make sure that you're listening to a healthy amount of it all i believe but like i just got to a place where i was just listening to so much negativity because

Speaker 1 that's that's really i mean i really didn't have that much self-worth did you ever ask your dad seeing that photo like why did you then walk me down the aisle nope

Speaker 2 My father has completely disowned me. He texted me and said, you are not my daughter.
This This was about three years ago.

Speaker 2 So I don't have a relationship with that man.

Speaker 1 What triggered him disowning you?

Speaker 2 My marriage to Doug, because I was obviously old enough to make that decision.

Speaker 2 My

Speaker 2 mother not wanting to be with my father because of my decision. She wanted to go with me, and that broke up their marriage.

Speaker 2 He obviously hits the bottle pretty hard. I think

Speaker 2 he runs away from a lot of things.

Speaker 2 He's kind of always been like that, but he's, I really believe too, like underneath it all, he is a really scarred, amazing, gentleman. He just doesn't know how to deal with any of this properly.

Speaker 2 I mean, even, you know, even serial killer parents like never disown their kids, right? What did I do?

Speaker 1 You mentioned that you

Speaker 1 were a virgin when you met Doug, and you mentioned that you had no idea what the honeymoon was going to entail. Right.

Speaker 1 What do you recall about

Speaker 1 that night and losing your virginity and the whole experience?

Speaker 2 I mean, for that whole experience for me was so like insane. I mean, coming from a really, like, I, I, I grew up where Kurt Cobain grew up, and it is like the most depressing freaking town.

Speaker 2 Like, nobody does anything. Like, you know, like, it's, and so from that to being pulled a week later into this,

Speaker 2 I mean, I just, I just shut down, I disassociated myself, I tried the best I could to put on that, that role, you know, because that's what grooming is, really.

Speaker 2 I,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 2 came from a really small town and then immediately like right up in the Hollywood Hills. And, you know, the honeymoon's going to be scheduled at the Chateau Marmont penthouse.

Speaker 2 And I remember running into the bathroom, shutting the door, and just looking in the mirror and crying for I don't know how long. I was just crying.
And I know

Speaker 2 I was feeling stuff that I wasn't necessarily letting myself process, or I wasn't old enough to process, or something. I don't know.
I take my bra off.

Speaker 2 I was wearing those bombshell Victoria's Secret bras. Do you remember that? It was like two big cup sizes.

Speaker 2 And then inside of that, I had a cutlet. so they were like

Speaker 2 and I was so freaked out to undress

Speaker 2 because I'm like he's just he's not gonna love me like this like he like how like I look like a kid like I looked like a 12 year old with my clothes off

Speaker 2 little did I know it was a fantastic night for him but I was a complete nervous wreck.

Speaker 1 So you were petrified to get undressed.

Speaker 2 Petrified.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Once you did, did you ever loosen up or did you feel uncomfortable the whole time? Like, how did he handle calming you?

Speaker 2 Well, he gave me a little wine before when I went into the bathroom. So

Speaker 2 I had a little wine.

Speaker 1 At 16.

Speaker 1 Before you have sex for the first time with him?

Speaker 2 Just a little. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Were you, was that the first time you had had a drink?

Speaker 2 I had a corona the day I arrived to Doug's house with my family

Speaker 2 before we got married, before we all jetted off to Vegas the next day. I remember I opened his fridge and I'm like, I'm fucking emancipated.
I'm having a Corona. So

Speaker 2 it was like my first Corona ever. So I started drinking

Speaker 2 when this, yeah.

Speaker 1 So at 16, starting to drink,

Speaker 1 being married, you go to this honeymoon afterwards. What was early marriage life like for the two of you?

Speaker 2 I just remember waking up the morning after at the Chateau Mermont.

Speaker 2 And I be, you know, I was growing up in such a religious household and I remember looking down at the sheets, the white sheets, and I was just, I was praying to God.

Speaker 2 I was like, please, and for some reason, I kind of felt like the one that wasn't good enough all the time.

Speaker 2 Like, you know, I'm like, please, I pray to God that there's some cherry on there because if there's no freaking cherry, like I'm not,

Speaker 2 I am not gonna be good enough for this man. So you want, like, literally, how sick is that?

Speaker 2 Like, I mean, I'm not putting down anybody's beliefs, but like, for me, I just look back at it and I just feel like it's so sick.

Speaker 2 And I, I, I saw it, and I was like, I felt like, okay, so this is ordained by God. Like, this is an ordained situation.

Speaker 1 How was he towards you after that first night together?

Speaker 2 I have never seen him so on top of the moon. I mean, I woke up and he had his little like hat on.
He was playing the piano.

Speaker 2 Like, you know, he just was,

Speaker 2 I mean, he just got to molest

Speaker 2 a child legally.

Speaker 1 With

Speaker 1 a 34-year difference between you and Doug, back then, what was presented to you that you you guys had in common?

Speaker 2 He would, you know, what he would always answer this question.

Speaker 2 So, whenever we would do, like, you know, our media rounds, or he would do an interview, or I would do an interview, I would always kind of fall back on what he would tell everybody, like my dad.

Speaker 2 I'm like, oh, yeah, okay, so that's that's how I answer this media question. What do you have in common? We love I Love Lucy.

Speaker 2 You know, we love the honeymooners. We love, you know,

Speaker 2 you know, ACDC and, you know Jack White and all these like bands that we really love and it's it's just so crazy how much we have in common so it that was like the how he would connect it for people to be like you know what I'm I'm like a back door of life she's like front door like we meet somewhere

Speaker 1 yeah with TV shows and music yeah

Speaker 1 what were like dinners like between the two of you drinking all the time

Speaker 1 drinking drinking drinking and he condoned it if anything, he pushed it on you. I mean, you said the first night that you were.

Speaker 2 He never told me no.

Speaker 1 Did you have to have sex with him, like, on his schedule?

Speaker 2 I still have scars on me,

Speaker 2 physical

Speaker 2 scarring.

Speaker 2 So, yeah.

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Speaker 1 Take care of yourselves, daddy gang.

Speaker 1 When did you start

Speaker 1 to realize

Speaker 1 this may not be what I want to do forever with this man?

Speaker 2 I was way too young to be crying on the kitchen floor every freaking night with a bottle of wine and opening another one.

Speaker 2 I felt like I didn't have at that point in time, like 17 years old. I didn't feel like I had anybody in my corner.

Speaker 2 I felt like, you know, because I was being told to commit suicide at 16, I mean, every moment I would turn around, there'd be another hit piece, you know, in the grocery store or somewhere else, you know,

Speaker 2 people talking about how I'm dressing or behaving. And

Speaker 2 little did they know then that that is a part of grooming. I was trying to be that part, right? And

Speaker 2 yeah,

Speaker 2 that part really did a doozy on

Speaker 2 my self-worth, really.

Speaker 1 When did you realize he had a drinking problem?

Speaker 2 Gradually.

Speaker 2 Because when

Speaker 2 he first was reaching out to me, you know, he was claiming that he was getting sober and he wanted to be sober and he was cleaning up his life and things like that. And I believed him.

Speaker 2 I didn't know anything really about it anyway. I mean, I know my dad drank a little bit, but I wasn't really that close with him, so it wasn't some like alarming thing.

Speaker 2 But it became an issue probably two months into our relationship when I started noticing like Jacqueline Hyde.

Speaker 2 Okay. You know?

Speaker 1 Like, what was it like living as a child with an alcoholic adult in a house together?

Speaker 2 Which time?

Speaker 2 With my dad or Doug? I'm trying.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 There are so many to count.

Speaker 2 I mean,

Speaker 2 it was almost every night.

Speaker 2 I mean, for years.

Speaker 1 And were you scared in the house?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 there was a gun. I mean, I, yeah, I mean,

Speaker 2 you know.

Speaker 1 Did he ever, when he was drunk, take it out?

Speaker 2 Um,

Speaker 2 I don't want to legally

Speaker 2 talk about that right now. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Was Doug

Speaker 1 physically and verbally abusive?

Speaker 2 He was extremely emotionally abusive to me At times physical, but mostly emotionally and abusive, because I think that that's the ultimate power a groomer has over a child, is that emotional um

Speaker 2 abuse and control. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Were you always playing the part and then behind the scenes kind of trying to figure out at one point an escape plan?

Speaker 2 We separated um a couple times, but every time we separated, I

Speaker 2 just felt like I couldn't live without him. I mean, I was

Speaker 2 raped a few times when I left him, and it and I go back to him, and he's just kind of like, Well, what do you expect? You know, you left me.

Speaker 2 Like, you know, I'm the one who loves you, I'm the one who takes care of you. And so, that's why it took so long.
I know the media is always wondering, like, why did it take so long?

Speaker 2 That's what was happening is this abuse, this emotional abuse. And I think, too, like, so many victims and survivors blame ourselves.

Speaker 2 We blame ourselves because we think it's our fault.

Speaker 2 But the full picture is

Speaker 2 the, the abuser is the one who is controlling that. It's not your fault at all.
And I wish I could have told myself these things in those moments. Yeah.

Speaker 2 This is a deep one, girl. You're doing amazing.
Seriously.

Speaker 2 I feel like I'm on Oprah right now.

Speaker 1 You did bring up during the Me Too movement

Speaker 1 those sexual assaults.

Speaker 1 Can you explain what happened?

Speaker 2 Just more adult men exploiting either a minor or a very

Speaker 2 young teenage girl at that point in time.

Speaker 1 When this happened to you because you explained you were on a break with Doug,

Speaker 1 like your initial reaction was to run back to him, which, if people aren't educated, they'd be like, What the fuck? That makes so much sense.

Speaker 2 I got that a lot. You know, when I chose to go back with him the first time, I mean,

Speaker 2 even some celebrity friends were like, What the fuck are you doing? Like, why in the hell are you doing that? And

Speaker 2 it's so hard to explain this to somebody who hasn't been through it.

Speaker 1 Now, knowing, like, what are some tangible red flags to look for

Speaker 1 that

Speaker 1 indicate grooming?

Speaker 2 I feel like you can Google a sociopath and get the exact same definition. Charming, intelligent,

Speaker 2 an empath,

Speaker 2 someone who can disarm you, disarm your family.

Speaker 2 And that's the scary part. It's like you don't,

Speaker 2 how you always,

Speaker 2 you know, spot that?

Speaker 1 The public hate you are getting, not only just from like random people, like celebrities.

Speaker 1 You got Courtney Love called you publicly

Speaker 2 a whore.

Speaker 1 Anderson Cooper shamed you on national television. And Chrissy Teigen took it to a new level.
She publicly wished you dead.

Speaker 1 And at the time, it seemed like no one gave a fuck. No one saw anything wrong with it.
Some of her tweets:

Speaker 2 I hate you.

Speaker 1 Go to sleep forever.

Speaker 1 What drugs make you do that with your mouth?

Speaker 2 Asking for

Speaker 1 a friend who really wants to know how to look like an idiot. Thanks.
To confirm, had you ever met Chrissy Teigen?

Speaker 2 Not have I only not met her, but I've never spoken to her in my life.

Speaker 2 like and i actually really liked her like i followed her i mean obviously i love

Speaker 2 john legend like i love i just was like i was following them and then i started seeing this on my timeline and i was like

Speaker 2 but i love you i just had this feeling but but but i really like you but like other than that at that point in time because i was so young right i don't think i processed

Speaker 2 how deeply that led to my future depression.

Speaker 1 I mean, you're literally getting publicly shamed for this.

Speaker 2 But at that point in time as a kid, I was just like...

Speaker 2 I was just like, oh, she's sexualizing toddlers and tiaras. Like, oh, big deal.
Woohoo-hoo. Because I was a kid, right? I mean, she was shaming Lindsay Lowen.

Speaker 2 She was struggling with a lot of, you know, her own stuff. And I just, I just freaking love Lindsay.

Speaker 2 Like, you know, I think Chrissy was in a really she had to have been in a really dark ass place to tell

Speaker 2 these child children and women, you know, these things to

Speaker 2 I don't know make herself feel better about herself. I know now, you know, she's she's saying she's doing the best she can and I really hope that she means it.

Speaker 2 You know, if that stuff continues, we're just gonna see more suicides, unfortunately. It's not gonna help.

Speaker 1 She, those were public tweets. Did she

Speaker 1 privately messaged you, right?

Speaker 2 She privately messaged me a lot. It was like, sometimes it was like really late, like two in the morning.
It's like, you know, and

Speaker 2 I don't know what it was. It wasn't just like one or two tweets, you know, like Courtney Love, you know, just called me a whore.
Big deal.

Speaker 1 Love you too. But Chrissy, it was like, it was over.
Wasn't it over like two years of harassment?

Speaker 2 It was a really long time.

Speaker 1 What was she privately messaging you?

Speaker 2 She privately messaged me. I specifically remember this one because

Speaker 2 I was just like

Speaker 2 so shocked. Right.

Speaker 2 It was really early in the morning at some point. This was a really, I mean, this was a freaking decade ago.

Speaker 2 I know a lot of people are going to change in that timeframe, but I didn't hear from her when she apologized. I was blocked from everything.
She messaged me,

Speaker 2 I cannot wait for you to die.

Speaker 2 And that was just one of them that I remember. And then publicly she was saying, you know,

Speaker 2 dirt nap or something, you know, I can't wait for you to take a dirt nap. And she was just obsessed with seeing me die.

Speaker 1 If you could say something to Chrissy Teigen right now, like, what would you say to her if you saw her?

Speaker 2 I really don't have anything to say to her. I don't need to speak to Regina George.
It's not something I need. I don't need that.
I'm Lindsay.

Speaker 1 Like, I will push you in front of a bush. No.

Speaker 1 No, I think that's very mature of you.

Speaker 1 So, you were on multiple reality shows.

Speaker 1 How did you make the decision to enter reality television?

Speaker 2 I didn't.

Speaker 2 My

Speaker 2 pedophile husband is the one who decided to

Speaker 2 sign me up for things because, you know

Speaker 2 he needed the money people you know another misconception is people thought i was a gold digger i married him for money i'm the one who was taking care of him that's why i entered reality tv because i felt like i had to i mean he controlled the bank accounts you know i didn't even know how to write a check so whenever i was sent into something it felt almost like a conservatorship right in a way um

Speaker 2 but yeah i i was the one making the money and that's why i would do the shows i mean i would get so sick before

Speaker 2 the shows. I know on Mother Daughter, I was so underweight.
I felt so anorexic before that. I mean, I went on the show.
I was throwing up right when I got there. I was throwing up nothing.

Speaker 2 I didn't have anything to eat in a few days. I wasn't eating on set.

Speaker 2 You know, I, I just, I got to a point where I was so freaking sick and I was sent to the hospital on the show because of it because I just, I was going to faint. Like, I was so sick.

Speaker 2 But really, Doug cared about me finishing it out and getting the money and then returning it to him.

Speaker 1 So, you would get the money, and then he would take care of the finances. Do you think that the amount of hate you were getting

Speaker 1 even bonded you more with Doug?

Speaker 2 Because it's like absolutely. We felt like Bonnie and Clyde.
I mean, that's what he would tell me. Yeah.
You know, he was like,

Speaker 2 you know, we're Bonnie and Clyde, baby. That's it.
That's, it's, it's, it's you and I.

Speaker 2 And there were things

Speaker 2 that would bond us together, right? That only we would know, and

Speaker 2 abusive tactics that he would, you know, put into play throughout the 10 years of.

Speaker 1 Can you give an example?

Speaker 1 Was there anything he would say about you?

Speaker 2 It got to a point where he would have to convince me just to do it. Like, he would be pushing me, like, literally, like, pushing, like the conservator,

Speaker 2 You have to go collect this money. You know, you are the,

Speaker 2 what did he call me? Something all the time. He called me the golden goose.
You're the golden goose. You gotta, you know, we're gonna, you gotta pay the rent, you know.

Speaker 2 That's, that's, that's what it is. And then he would guilt trip me if I didn't want to do it or if I said I was too sick or I'm not mentally, I can't, you know, I need a break.

Speaker 1 You were on Celebrity Big Brother when you were 18.

Speaker 1 This was the first time you were really apart from Doug. Yeah.
Can you take us through what it was like moving into that house and what that experience was like?

Speaker 2 When we got to London, I remember being on a hotel room in the room. I'm just, I have this trauma right now that I'm just even thinking about this.

Speaker 2 But he was standing there. Doug was standing there and I

Speaker 2 was holding onto his legs, and I was just crying my eyes out because I knew the producers were going to come pick me up.

Speaker 2 This was the first time I was ever truly away from him.

Speaker 2 I couldn't breathe being away from this man. That's how

Speaker 2 groomed I was.

Speaker 2 I didn't know how the hell I was going to get away from him and be away from him for a few weeks or month or whatever.

Speaker 2 And I was so

Speaker 2 distraught and I was so depressed.

Speaker 2 But then by the time I got on the show and by the time I, you know, became friends with Dustin Diamond, like he was the one who was in there that kind of made me realize

Speaker 2 some things in my relationship with Doug.

Speaker 2 And by the time I ended the show,

Speaker 2 I knew

Speaker 2 I didn't want to be with him anymore. I knew there was something not up right, like that, that that wasn't right.
And by the time we got back to the U.S.,

Speaker 2 I told them I wanted a separation, and that's when I finally felt free enough to get away from him, strong enough to get away from him. Um,

Speaker 2 I was

Speaker 2 assaulted,

Speaker 2 and then I went back. Yeah,

Speaker 1 that's a pretty big moment to realize what was helping you process that

Speaker 2 space.

Speaker 2 I mean, really, space.

Speaker 2 You know, it kind of felt like college for me or something. Like, I went away to college and

Speaker 2 it just made me realize

Speaker 2 I don't need him controlling me outside of this. Like, I don't need that.
But at that point in time, it felt completely impossible to get away from.

Speaker 1 Your experience on Celebrity Big Brother was the first moment you started to see like what life would be like without Doug.

Speaker 1 Then a few years later, you wind up on another reality show that focuses on your relationship with your mom, the mom and daughter experiment.

Speaker 1 When you went on the show, what was the status of your relationship with your mother at that point?

Speaker 2 I hadn't spoken with my mom for two years. It was such a really hard situation because Doug was isolating me from my entire family at that point in time.
So I blamed her for a lot.

Speaker 2 And I was just in this really confused mindset. So the producers kept my mother off of the first night off of the property.

Speaker 2 Everybody else could be on the property, you know, Heidi Monteg's mom, and you know, Natalie Nunn's mom, and you know,

Speaker 2 real housewife, you know, they could all be there, but my mom couldn't be there because they knew of what a fragile situation it was. And then the next episode, they introduced her, and it was just so

Speaker 2 it was so difficult for me to finish this the

Speaker 2 to finish I was completely underweight I was so sick I was taking too many things

Speaker 2 you know because my mom would be telling me one thing and then Doug would be telling me another and then the whole world and celebrities and strangers and friends would be telling me other things.

Speaker 2 So I just completely disassociated myself from myself and it made me really, really sick so I'm surprised I got through that entire reality show to tell you the truth on the show

Speaker 1 we find out that your mom was having an emotional affair with Doug your husband at the time and that Doug had sexual fantasies involving here we go with this vodka again

Speaker 2 this is a heavy one

Speaker 1 We find out that Doug had sexual fantasies involving the three of you.

Speaker 1 What was your mom's relationship with Doug?

Speaker 2 I'm still working on that therapy. Okay.

Speaker 1 And do you know when those things were said on the show?

Speaker 1 Yes. Are they true?

Speaker 2 Um,

Speaker 2 when I met Doug,

Speaker 2 he would

Speaker 2 go up and kiss a friend of mine on the lips.

Speaker 2 Like, immediately. It wasn't anything that was like, you know,

Speaker 2 oh, come here, baby, like, you know, anything like that, but he was very charming. Oh, how are you? And he said, oh, it's nice, you know.

Speaker 2 And I've had so many people tell me that it just made them feel so uncomfortable. They felt assaulted, right? But in his head, I would talk to him about it.

Speaker 2 And in his head, it's like, what do you mean? I'm just greeting them. I'm greeting them.
Oh, yeah, I'm sexually assaulted. Oh,

Speaker 2 you know, oh, yeah, right.

Speaker 2 But it felt like that for a lot of women. And he did the same thing to my mother.

Speaker 1 Did Doug talk about your mom in sexual ways?

Speaker 2 Never.

Speaker 2 I personally never,

Speaker 2 never, never heard that.

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Speaker 1 So, when you were addressing your mom on the show, saying,

Speaker 1 you know, I know you're having an emotional affair with Doug,

Speaker 1 where did you hear that information from Doug?

Speaker 2 Again, my mom has had her own experiences in life.

Speaker 2 I

Speaker 2 really,

Speaker 2 you know, seen her fall in love with my husband through me.

Speaker 2 So it was like this,

Speaker 2 you know.

Speaker 2 I don't know. I mean, she even told me, you know, you and I are like Siamese twins.
Whatever you feel, I feel.

Speaker 2 And so I was a kid and she was going along with her kid with this situation.

Speaker 2 Right. I'm still healing from this.

Speaker 1 Do you know if they ever had a sexual relationship?

Speaker 2 You know what?

Speaker 2 I would never know. You know, usually I would say, absolutely not.
You know, that's crazy. But my life has been, I mean, when I go to sleep, my dreams are so normal.

Speaker 2 And then when I wake up, my life is so freaking insane. So I just like to sleep most of the day.

Speaker 2 I got up early for this, okay? I'd be sleeping. I appreciate that.

Speaker 1 Okay, so you does it

Speaker 1 it haunt you a little bit that you don't have that answer?

Speaker 2 I'm haunted by a lot of shit.

Speaker 2 It's not on the top of my

Speaker 2 agenda right now because I have so many other things that like I'm, I'm,

Speaker 2 I'm dealing with and going through and trying to make sense of.

Speaker 2 I definitely think eventually it's obviously. I mean, I'll get to it.

Speaker 1 What impact did reality TV have on your body image?

Speaker 2 Um,

Speaker 2 I don't know if it was necessarily reality TV. I think it was mostly the media.

Speaker 2 When I shot into like this cannonball, like, just like I was everywhere overnight, I, you know, when you're a teenager, you see yourself a certain way in your mirror, right?

Speaker 2 And you're listening to fucking Trey songs or whatever you're listening to. You're just like, yeah, damn, I look good.
And then, you know, you see yourself every angle in the media and

Speaker 2 it completely shattered me so I had my breasts done right when I turned 18 like that was something that I needed to do for myself because everybody already thought that I had these big boobs and you know I was already bullied for them and you know

Speaker 2 you know went on dr. Drew

Speaker 1 Can we talk about that? Because I watched that clip. I don't know how that just got past everyone.
To anyone that's not watched it, you're 16 years old. You go on Dr.

Speaker 1 Drew's show, and quite literally, my mouth dropped when I watched it this morning of you on a table in front of a live audience, and they're basically doing like an ultrasound on your boobs to see if they're real because people didn't believe they were real at the time.

Speaker 2 At like 16, right?

Speaker 1 Who made that? Yes, who made that decision for you to go on the show?

Speaker 2 Doug did.

Speaker 1 And how would he present those ideas to you? Money.

Speaker 2 At that point in time, I completely was like, oh, okay, I guess this is, you know, what I need to do. I mean, that was the thought of a child, I feel like, was, you know, it's kind of like,

Speaker 2 that's what he wants me to do. And I was so far in deep already that I just

Speaker 2 kind of like became that persona.

Speaker 1 When you talk about getting your breasts done at 18,

Speaker 1 what was the decision to get them done?

Speaker 2 I wanted to

Speaker 2 be the woman everybody expected me to be, you know, from

Speaker 2 strangers and the media and everything else. It just felt like I

Speaker 2 needed to put that persona on.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Right. And Doug kind of

Speaker 2 benefited from that as well. Like, you know, oh, look at me.
I'm not just with a kid. You know, she doesn't look like a kid.
And so many people fell for that. I am so ready to get them out.

Speaker 2 I mean like I have so many massages every week. I am in so much pain.
I loved having them. I'm not against plastic surgery.

Speaker 2 I think right if if you want to do something to your body that is your freaking choice I don't have anything wrong with that at all but my back feels like a 90 year old woman. Like I am so tired.

Speaker 2 Wow. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So all of these shows, I mean, there's interviews on interviews with you and Doug, and eventually the relationship ended.

Speaker 1 How did it end? And how did you tell him you wanted it to end?

Speaker 2 I just started shutting him out. Okay.
I just distanced myself from him so much to the point where I

Speaker 2 didn't let him in anymore. I grew up and I started realizing what was happening to me.
I don't think I would be sitting here right now if if I wouldn't have divorced him.

Speaker 1 When did you

Speaker 1 tell him you wanted a divorce?

Speaker 1 And how?

Speaker 2 I don't know if I ever did. Okay.

Speaker 2 I was at a place where,

Speaker 2 you know, I knew he was in such control. I felt like I had great acquaintances, but no one who I can really completely open up and trust, right?

Speaker 2 So I just, I fell into myself and I was just always praying that he would leave

Speaker 2 before it was too late for me. I just remember praying and

Speaker 2 waiting and hoping he would leave, which he eventually did. He eventually left.
He

Speaker 2 went to Michigan,

Speaker 2 moved in with his dad.

Speaker 2 who was like freaking 80 or something. And,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 2 Doug didn't have anything. And

Speaker 2 I felt responsible for that you know somehow he made me feel responsible for that but I kept

Speaker 2 I I just kept my eye on the prize and that was my health setting good boundaries for myself being strong even in those moments where I

Speaker 2 didn't want to make it anymore.

Speaker 2 I mean, really, I just, you know, there were so many times, but then you would always have to put on that brave face for everybody because everybody would see me differently.

Speaker 2 So I would have to really, you know, just like like a light, like go into that character.

Speaker 1 I mean, anyone that has a fucking brain should have been like, this girl needs help. She's a child.
She doesn't know any better.

Speaker 2 But I also think society now, like, has changed so much. I agree.
I mean, this marriage took place before Me Too, before time's up.

Speaker 2 I feel like in this generation right now, if this was so public, I feel like an army of people would become like, you know, banging on my door, dragging me out.

Speaker 2 But then the scary part is to me, too, is that it's still freaking happening to people who aren't as high-profile as me and who

Speaker 2 don't have those resources.

Speaker 1 What were the next few months of your life like trying to

Speaker 1 figure out life without him? Because you had been with him for over seven, eight years.

Speaker 2 It was 10 years at the time of our divorce. Wow.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Wherever you go, there you are, right?

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 my trust issues are so

Speaker 2 prevalent in my current relationship. I'm engaged, I mean,

Speaker 2 um, but also with my friendships, with my

Speaker 2 family. I just have these severe, severe, severe trust issues with so many different people.
Um, but it it definitely affects my

Speaker 2 my my

Speaker 2 um ability to open up to people in a genuine way it's really hard for me to do that because i was so crushed at

Speaker 2 as as a child you know and and especially so publicly publicly abused like you are a survivor you are

Speaker 1 you came in

Speaker 1 and immediately were like oh take my phone

Speaker 1 I don't want Doug to call. What can you explain what's going on?

Speaker 2 I blocked him recently because he's been reaching out to me. You know, he knows that I'm moving on.
He knows I'm trying to.

Speaker 2 And,

Speaker 2 you know, I'm happy and I find moments of happiness and I'm finding myself.

Speaker 2 And I mean, the most recently thing, he just reached out to me a few months ago asking me for his guitar that he wants back.

Speaker 2 And it's almost like that ex calling and saying, hey, I left a sock in your drawer about eight years ago. Do you think you can, like, maybe send it back to me?

Speaker 2 You know, but like, it was just, you know, it's just so obvious that he is still trying to victim claim control, you know, even after just knowing that he was just doing this to a 15-year-old girl less than a month and a half ago.

Speaker 1 Moving forward, how are you going to handle that relationship with Doug?

Speaker 2 I am never going to speaking him to God, like, again, like, like, ever, ever, ever. I, I, I will never let him in.

Speaker 2 And I, like, I feel like I have a really good

Speaker 2 predator radar now. Like, I am, I am probably way too hypersensitive, but, like, I can see someone that walks into a room, and I can just

Speaker 2 I'm so hypersensitive. I'm an empath, and I just, yeah,

Speaker 2 yeah.

Speaker 1 Do you think that Doug should be in jail?

Speaker 2 I think he should be

Speaker 2 looked into

Speaker 2 way more

Speaker 2 than he has been.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean, you just said to you, and that will determine whether he needs to be,

Speaker 2 you know. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But based on everything I've heard, based on everything, I mean,

Speaker 1 yeah, 15-year-old, that

Speaker 1 should be more than looked into.

Speaker 1 What is, as we wrap up, everyone's going to see Courtney Stodden, what is a misconception about you

Speaker 1 if people are listening that you

Speaker 1 would not even like to clear up, that you're just like, this is not who I am, this is who I am. Because we've seen so much of you through your youth,

Speaker 1 and it was obviously skewed.

Speaker 1 Yeah, what do you want people to know?

Speaker 2 I was not a child bride.

Speaker 2 I was a child who was exploited.

Speaker 2 I think that that is something that people should think about.

Speaker 1 You're writing your book, which we've heard about. We're going to keep an eye out for it.

Speaker 1 And you've talked about how you want to help through this book others that are going through anything similar to your struggle. What do you hope readers, when it does come out, take from your book?

Speaker 2 Every detail. Like, be very afraid.
You know who you are.

Speaker 1 Are you going to use names in your book?

Speaker 1 Good for you. Can you give us one?

Speaker 2 You think so?

Speaker 2 Oh my god.

Speaker 2 He's married.

Speaker 2 Um,

Speaker 2 I'm sure you know her husband is

Speaker 2 not the best man. Just say that.

Speaker 1 And are you writing

Speaker 1 details about what happened?

Speaker 1 How does it make you feel? To it, it's like a reclaiming moment for you,

Speaker 2 It is, but I think that it's

Speaker 2 reality.

Speaker 1 I am excited for the world to hear you in this light and through a new voice, which is your voice. It's not someone else's.
It's not skewed by an abuser.

Speaker 1 Because

Speaker 1 you're phenomenal and you're a survivor and you're incredible and you're smart and

Speaker 1 you have the rest of your life in front of you. And the fact that you're in this therapy journey, you're open about

Speaker 1 the hardships that you've been through, but also the way you're so positively talking, but also realistically talking. Like, it's not easy.
Some days I don't want to get out of bed.

Speaker 1 It's so many women are going to relate to this story and

Speaker 1 probably

Speaker 1 find the strength that you're talking about within themselves to get through another day and just take it day.

Speaker 2 That's the only reason why I'm doing this, honestly. Like, I don't think I could find the strength to do this for myself.

Speaker 2 And so, I mean, we're so pro-women now. I think that is so important.
We always should have been, but it's so important right now. And it's really the only reason why I find the strength to speak out.

Speaker 2 And you're a badass yourself. So I felt so safe to sit down with you today.
So thank you.

Speaker 1 Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker 2 Thank you for coming on Caller Daddy. Thank you.

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