Gwyneth Paltrow: The Ultimate Dating Roster (FBF)

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Speaker 1 What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call Her Daddy, Daddy, Daddy, Daddy.

Speaker 1 Gwyneth Caltrow, welcome to Call Her Daddy.

Speaker 3 Thank you very much.

Speaker 1 I am so happy you're here. How's it feeling? How are the vibes?

Speaker 3 Vibes are a triple plus. I mean, it's gorgeous.
The marble table,

Speaker 3 the colors, it's very soothing.

Speaker 1 Thank you. Because I know you're very into like home design yourself.
Yes. How would you describe your style? Hmm.

Speaker 3 I think I always like a traditional

Speaker 3 frame.

Speaker 3 So,

Speaker 3 you know, like walls, fixtures, floors. I like it to feel like there's some history and some provenance with it.
I think I always gravitate towards a house where like the bones are more.

Speaker 1 Traditional. That's like I always want cozy vibes.
I actually designed this. The pink color in this room is the exact color that I have in my closet.

Speaker 1 And so I wanted it to feel like we were kind of at my house, but I wanted to bring a little bit of me to the studio. I love it.

Speaker 3 Which is very fun. This actually, this wall color is very similar to our goop office wall color.
Right?

Speaker 1 Yeah. You don't want like a hot pink.
Like, I needed to get away from the hot pink. I was like, I feel like I'm a little hot topicy.
I'm a little in college still.

Speaker 1 I'm like, I have elevated a little bit, ladies. Give me some credit.

Speaker 3 Maybe.

Speaker 1 But I need to have it like classy, but still fun.

Speaker 1 Let's talk about you, though.

Speaker 3 Oh, boy.

Speaker 1 So I love how. So Apple is here, your daughter, and you guys walk in, and Apple is like, roast her, go for it.
And I was like, Gwen Paltrow is coming on the show, guys. Like, let's keep it classy.

Speaker 1 And then Apple was like, oh, ask her everything. I'm like, oh, thank you, Apple, for letting me go in.

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Speaker 1 So you're an entrepreneur, you're a mother, and you're an actress.

Speaker 1 You won an Academy Award at 26 years old. How did winning an Oscar at such a young age impact the way that you viewed and felt about your career? Well,

Speaker 3 I guess I should start by saying, like, I was so driven. Like, I was working so hard, and I didn't know exactly what I was working towards.
I just wanted to be successful and to be well regarded. And

Speaker 3 I, you know, was kind of on this really fast track, and it all kind of happened so quickly, which is what I think you're alluding to.

Speaker 3 And then for somebody like me, who,

Speaker 3 you know, I think I was working through a lot of the harder parts of my growing up through achieving success.

Speaker 3 And once I won the Oscar, it put me into a little bit of an identity crisis because if you win the biggest prize, like, what are you supposed to do? And where are you supposed to go?

Speaker 3 I also, it was hard.

Speaker 3 Like the amount of attention that you receive on a night like that in the weeks following is so disorienting and frankly really really unhealthy I was like this is this is crazy like I don't know if I can I don't know what to do I don't know which way is is up and so I think it was a lot and then I also

Speaker 3 you know not that I would give it back or anything like it was an amazing experience but

Speaker 3 it kind of called a lot of things into question for me and then I think because I hadn't done a lot of healing work yet I was like well now I need to you know what am I gonna do where am I gonna how am I gonna continue to achieve?

Speaker 1 Do you mind sharing, like when you're referencing, like you were working towards solving the things in your past? Yeah. Do you mind sharing what you're talking about?

Speaker 3 Yeah, sure. I mean, I think, you know, we all go through traumatic things in our childhood.
And,

Speaker 3 you know, I think

Speaker 3 our parents, especially my parents' generation, had a very different orientation around parenting. It's like, you know, Apple and her brother are like,

Speaker 3 you know, I kind of revolve around them and

Speaker 3 hopefully not to their detriment. But I think it was, I grew up in a generation where there wasn't that orientation.

Speaker 3 And I think, you know, we moved a lot to move with my mom when she was working, which also, of course, had great things.

Speaker 3 But it was, you know, it could be very, it could feel destabilizing. And I think there was, there were also like

Speaker 3 really high standards prescribed to me in my house.

Speaker 3 I don't even know if my parents were conscious they were doing it, but I always felt like I had to prove on some level that I, I was worth something, that I was lovable.

Speaker 3 And not only from my parents, but I think just from the culture that I was growing up in.

Speaker 1 No, I get what you're saying. And I think that's something I've been realizing in therapy is like,

Speaker 1 of course, we can look at how our parents fucked us up. Like, I don't think there's anyone on the planet that's like, my parents were absolutely perfect.
Like, but I do think generationally,

Speaker 1 it's also important to look at, not to give them a free pass, but like they don't have the tools that we now have. Like, therapy wasn't even a conversation.
Mental health wasn't even a conversation.

Speaker 1 So, even you saying, like, I don't even think they were aware of the pressure they were putting on me. It, it does make sense now, especially if you are in therapy or working on yourself.

Speaker 1 Like, the past generations to me, it's, it's very apparent as to like what they were lacking and how fortunate we are now to have conversations with like you having with your children.

Speaker 1 When you talk about having this like almost like crisis of like you win this Oscar, everyone's looking at you. You're this beautiful young woman.

Speaker 1 How do you think that impacted like your self-worth at the time?

Speaker 3 I felt a real pivot on that night because I felt like up until that moment, everybody was kind of rooting for me in a way.

Speaker 3 And then when I won, it was like too much, you know, and, and I could feel a real turn and I remember I was working in England a lot at the time for some reason I was doing all my movies in the UK

Speaker 3 and I remember the British press being so horrible to me because I cried you know and they didn't necessarily know that you know my grandfather was dying of cancer my dad who was in the audience with me was like had just had all this crazy cancer treatment and he was really debilitated and it was just this totally overwhelming moment and you know I was 26 like I cried and people were so mean about it.

Speaker 3 And I just thought, like, wow, there's this big energy shift that's happening.

Speaker 3 And I think I'm going to have to learn to be less open-hearted and much more protective of myself and filter people out better. It was like this big reckoning in a way.

Speaker 1 When I think back to the 90s, I think it's so funny that so many trends are coming back. Like Apple just walked in and just like, mom, look, I'm wearing your shirt from the 90s.

Speaker 1 It's like everything is making comebacks. But the one thing that I i feel like never went out of style and i have to say it is brad pitt

Speaker 1 i have to say it i agree

Speaker 1 how did you meet brad pitt because you guys were like the hottest couple okay

Speaker 1 how did you meet brad

Speaker 3 i met brad on the set of seven

Speaker 3 and i think I was only 22 years old at the time.

Speaker 3 And I had seen him in Thelma and Louise and like whatever the other movies he had been in. So obviously everyone knew he was like the most gorgeous movie star in America.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 I got this little part in seven and I was so excited to meet him and Morgan Freeman, who I had like grown up adoring as an actor.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 1 we

Speaker 3 got we sort of said hi on set and it was like major major love at first sight.

Speaker 3 It was crazy.

Speaker 1 I just got chills. The fact that you get to be like, I had love at first sight with Brad Pitt and it was mutual.
Okay, Gwyneth, no big fucking deal. So

Speaker 1 you eventually got engaged to Brad. How did he propose and how did you initially feel about him proposing?

Speaker 3 Well, we went out for, we had been going out for like a, it felt like a long time. And I was like ready to get married and I was like ready.

Speaker 3 And we were in Argentina. He was filming a movie down there and I had gone down there for most of it and was like making dinner and you know hanging out with him

Speaker 3 and

Speaker 3 one night we were kind of on the balcony of this house we were renting in this little town in Argentina and I wish I remembered exactly what he said but he proposed it was fantastic and thrilled.

Speaker 1 Were you surprised or did you know this was coming? Did you guys talk about it?

Speaker 3 We had talked about it, but I was surprised in the moment.

Speaker 1 I remember remember that. And how old were you at this point?

Speaker 3 I must have been 24.

Speaker 1 Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 So I know I've read that you ended the engagement with Brad because you were like, I was too young. I was not ready to get married.

Speaker 1 And I feel like when you are in love, I don't care what age, sometimes you can be so in it that you don't see the big picture. How did you realize that you were not ready to get married?

Speaker 1 Well, I

Speaker 3 had a lot of development left to do, looking back in hindsight. Like,

Speaker 3 you know, in a lot of ways, I didn't really fully start to come into myself until I was like 40 years old. And I had such a pleasing issue.
Like, I didn't even really understand

Speaker 3 how to

Speaker 3 listen to my instincts and act from that place, like for what was right for me.

Speaker 3 I was always trying to adjudicate, like, what's right for everybody else, you know, being the sort of thermostat in the room like, oh, you know, it's getting a little uncomfortable.

Speaker 3 Like let me cool it down. Like it's getting cold.
Let me warm things up. And always sort of outsourcing that and not

Speaker 3 really

Speaker 3 giving myself like the dignity of

Speaker 3 being close to myself, you know? And so when I look back, you know, I think I was really a kid, like really more so than a lot of 22 or 23 or 24-year-olds I would meet now.

Speaker 3 You know, I really had not explored who I was, what was important to me, what my boundaries were, anything like that. And so

Speaker 3 I was totally heartbroken when we broke up, but it was just, you know, the right thing at that time. But it was really, it was really hard.

Speaker 1 When you say you broke up, like, is that how you explained it to him? Like, I'm too young, like, I can't do this.

Speaker 3 no it was like there were sort of a number of things that had happened and also he was nine years older than I

Speaker 1 am I guess he's still nine years older than me and so he was like far more

Speaker 3 he knew what he wanted he was like ready to do it and I was kind of all over the place and so it was really like one of those difficult things where I felt like oh my god I'm not I'm not only am I not ready, but I'm not like living up to the standards again.

Speaker 3 You know, it was like a familiar refrain that I felt about myself.

Speaker 1 When you think back to that time period, like

Speaker 1 what questions do you think people should be asking themselves if they're wondering, like, am I ready to get married?

Speaker 1 Because, like, I know there's a lot of young women listening that it's like, oh, maybe I am. Like, how will I know? Like, do you have any advice?

Speaker 3 I think that as women,

Speaker 3 we know on such a deep level what is right for us. And so, it's really just a matter of how many layers we've put on top of that.
And I do think we're socialized as

Speaker 3 women in this country

Speaker 3 to not do that. Like we don't tune in and really listen to ourselves.
And so I would say the best thing is like to work on your friendship with yourself.

Speaker 3 The closer you are to yourself, then the more decisions you will make from that place. And that will be the right decision.

Speaker 1 Anytime I have a deep conversation with my friend, whether it was like she stayed in a relationship too long or I was in a toxic relationship, you always kind of know. You know.

Speaker 1 And like, I really feel like a woman's intuition is never wrong.

Speaker 1 Like when you're feeling something's off, a lot of the times we're just not acting on ending something or doing something for ourselves because there's a layer, like you said, of something

Speaker 1 prohibiting us from making that decision, whether it's like the societal issues of like, we're living in this patriarchal society and you're like, I want to please the man and it's it's been so ingrained.

Speaker 1 Like whatever it is, usually it's actually, you know, the truth. You just have to be in tune with yourself.
That takes a lot of time, though. Yes.

Speaker 3 And one layer of complexity I would add is that, you know, when I look back, and I think this is pretty pervasive, like most of us

Speaker 3 are

Speaker 3 sort of replaying relationship, that dynamic out in our romantic life that we had with our most difficult parental relationship.

Speaker 3 Like Carrie Washington said to me the other day, there's only one letter difference between parent and partner.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 which I thought was, you know, a very succinct way of articulating it because,

Speaker 3 you know, that's something that I did for sure in my romantic relationships. And

Speaker 3 some people don't do that and you know they're attaching in really healthy ways. But, you know, those are things to keep in the back of of your mind, too.

Speaker 3 Like, am I trying to work something out with this person that's really my own work?

Speaker 3 Because a lot of times that means you shouldn't be with that person.

Speaker 3 You should go do your work and then find somebody that's going to really uplift you.

Speaker 1 Because most of the time, when you're in a situation with someone that you're trying to play out, like your issues with your dad or your issues with your mom, you're right.

Speaker 1 Then when you actually go to the work, you wouldn't go back to that partner. You're like, wait, no, no, no, that actually doesn't work for me at all.
That's right.

Speaker 1 I'm interested to also know about Brad and then we're moving on. But like, actually, let's do the whole episode about Brad.

Speaker 1 Um, when you're, since you're in this Hollywood sphere of like, it's a pretty close-knit group, how did you guys like move on?

Speaker 1 And, like, I'm sure you saw each other at parties and like had to socialize in moments. Like, was it awkward for you?

Speaker 1 And, like, do you guys would, it's not awkward now, obviously, but like, how did you go about running into each other?

Speaker 3 Yeah, right. They always say, like, Hollywood is like high school with money.
It's like kind of true, which is probably why I didn't live here for so long.

Speaker 3 I remember seeing him. This is so crazy.

Speaker 3 Like, because I was so, I was like heartbroken and so upset, you know, and then I remember the first time I saw him, I was presenting at the Academy of Wars the year after I won.

Speaker 3 And I like walked out and I was like, I was so cognizant of him being there. And I was like, oh my God, this is so scary and so awkward.

Speaker 1 Because he's probably like in almost front row.

Speaker 3 Yeah, he was like right there, and we hadn't talked in like a couple years.

Speaker 1 You're like, I would be like, I'm basically giving a speech to my ex.

Speaker 3 And I was like, I think I even fumbled my words.

Speaker 1 I was like, yeah, uh, uh, I hope that's on YouTube so I can go watch that after this. All of a sudden, it's gonna like spike up.
It's like, oh my god.

Speaker 3 It was like the year after I won. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It was crazy.

Speaker 3 I know. He's a great guy.

Speaker 3 He's, he's just, he's wonderful. I really like him a lot.

Speaker 1 Yeah, casual.

Speaker 1 Okay, another relationship you had was with Ben Affleck, which is like, I'm sitting here being like, you have the most stacked roster of any person that has ever come on, call her daddy, Gwyneth.

Speaker 1 I'm not kidding. I'm like, no one has sat in a chair and I'm like, Brad Pitt, Ben Affleck.
I'm like, what? Tell us your tips.

Speaker 3 My actual question was this.

Speaker 1 Do you think that all of your exes have bought? your vagina candle

Speaker 1 they want to really relive the good times That's what it's there for.

Speaker 1 Can you imagine someone like going into Brad Pitt's house and like, is that Gwyneth's vagina candle? What the fuck? Okay, we're going to play a game. Okay.

Speaker 1 Brad or Ben?

Speaker 1 It'll be fun. Okay.

Speaker 1 Brad. No.

Speaker 3 I didn't even ask a question. Oh, I thought that was the question.
Brad or Ben?

Speaker 1 Okay. That's so good.
Okay. Okay.

Speaker 1 That's good. Okay.
Now, overall, it's Brad. Now.

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Speaker 1 Okay, who had better style?

Speaker 3 Oh my gosh. I'm going back in time now trying to assess wardrobes.

Speaker 1 Probably Brad.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Who was more romantic?

Speaker 3 Um, Brad.

Speaker 1 He's like, Brad, Brad.

Speaker 1 Who was more likely to make you laugh?

Speaker 3 Ben.

Speaker 1 Who were you more likely to get into an argument with?

Speaker 3 Ben.

Speaker 1 Who was more high maintenance?

Speaker 3 Gosh, that's a really good question.

Speaker 3 I'm not sure I would characterize either of them as high maintenance. They were both like pretty...

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 who cared more about their appearance? Ooh.

Speaker 3 I'm not sure. I feel like

Speaker 3 neither of them were very vain like that.

Speaker 1 Like,

Speaker 3 I'm not attracted to guys who are like looking in the mirror the whole time.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he little scruff.

Speaker 3 Like a little

Speaker 3 scruff. Although Ben did have like a mirror face that he would throw at the mirror.

Speaker 1 You have to do it for us.

Speaker 3 I can't really remember, but it was sort of like, you know, like

Speaker 3 he had a funny mirror face. I think he was joking, though.

Speaker 1 Okay, okay.

Speaker 1 Who was a better kisser?

Speaker 3 Oh my God. Let me think.
Gosh, I have to remember so far back. They were both good kissers.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Who was better in bed?

Speaker 3 That's really hard.

Speaker 3 That is really hard. Because, like, Brad was like the sort of major chemistry love of of your life, kind of like at the time, you know.

Speaker 3 Um,

Speaker 3 and then like Ben was like technically excellent.

Speaker 3 Holy fuck, I can't believe my daughter is listening to this.

Speaker 1 Technically, yeah, excellent. Yeah, holy fuck, God bless J-Lo and everything she's getting over there.
Oh my God, that's amazing. Okay, last question.
Okay, this is really gonna cause some issues.

Speaker 3 Am I blushing?

Speaker 1 I am. Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 Who

Speaker 1 is the better actor? Oh, wow.

Speaker 1 Hmm.

Speaker 3 I mean,

Speaker 3 they're both so talented. I feel like...

Speaker 3 And Ben is a great writer and director, but I guess I would probably have to say acting alone, Brad. Like, if you think of all the really different roles roles he's done.
I mean Ben is great too.

Speaker 3 They're both great.

Speaker 1 They're both great. I mean you've got great exes.
Like you can't really go wrong. You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 And those are just the ones you know about.

Speaker 1 Oh, well, we're going to get to that.

Speaker 1 You can't tease me here, Gwenis, and not expect.

Speaker 1 I was going to ask, you know, we know a lot of your exes.

Speaker 1 But would you be willing to maybe drop a name of someone you've like even had a makeout with that's A-list that like the world doesn't know about?

Speaker 3 Hmm. I don't think I could say the name

Speaker 1 can you give me names

Speaker 3 what about a little Leo action no never made out with Leo never he did he tried back in the day but he was already like you know he was very doing his thing loose with the goods like from when he was 19.

Speaker 1 What about Johnny Depp?

Speaker 3 Never made out with him. We did a movie together, but we did not make out.

Speaker 1 Bradley Cooper?

Speaker 3 No, I don't even know Bradley Cooper. I mean, I've met him, but I've never like...

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know.
Okay, well, we're going to have to sidebar, and you're going to have to tell me one name that I can like hold close to the chest.

Speaker 3 I'll tell you after.

Speaker 1 Okay. Okay.
You also dated and married Chris Martin, one of the biggest musicians in the world. Yep.
Shout out, Coldplay. Love him.
Shout him out. We are going to do a little one last game.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Fuck, Mary, kill.

Speaker 1 Brad Pitt,

Speaker 1 then Havelak, and Chris Martin.

Speaker 3 Wow.

Speaker 3 Well, obviously I'd marry Chris Martin because he gave me my two children who are the loves of my life. So I would do that all again.

Speaker 1 Hmm.

Speaker 3 Wow, but kill is so, that's such a hardcore.

Speaker 1 It's not actually. It's like put to the wayside.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Fuck one more time. I think we know your answer.
I think Brad.

Speaker 3 Brad, yeah. Yeah.
And then Ben. Yeah.

Speaker 1 God bless Ben. God bless him.
God bless him and his dunkin' donuts.

Speaker 1 Okay, what initially attracted you to Chris?

Speaker 3 So Chris and I met.

Speaker 3 It's a funny story. I was a huge Coldplay fan when his first album, Parachutes, came out.
And I loved it.

Speaker 3 I was doing a movie in London again, as usual, and I was kind of had the TV on in the background. And he was playing, they were playing at Glastonbury.
And when I heard the music and I like,

Speaker 3 you know, had this very powerful reaction to it, I was like, this is incredible. And I watched their whole thing and I was like, this band is going to be huge.

Speaker 3 And no one had really heard of them in America at the time. I remember coming home and like telling everyone about this great band.

Speaker 3 And they said, you know, they're going to be playing this teeny show. I think it was maybe at the Bowery Ballroom or something.

Speaker 3 So I went with Mary, my best friend from kindergarten that I was telling you about. And because I was there, I, someone wrote in the newspaper that we were dating.
We had never met.

Speaker 3 And it was, I was like, what? Like, you know, he's like five years younger than me. And I was like, please, I'm not like, we're not dating.
I just went to this thing.

Speaker 3 And we thought, and then, but they kept writing it all summer, all summer, all summer. And then that fall, my dad died, unfortunately, in sort of a surprising way.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 my brother and I were listening to that parachutes record. I mean, not parachutes, Rush of Blood to the Head all the time, all the time.

Speaker 3 And I remember I had called Mary and I said, like, I need you to get, I need you to come to London. Like, I, I can't breathe without my dad.
I don't know what, you know, to do.

Speaker 3 And so she came over and then someone reminded me we had had tickets to go see Coplay that night, but from

Speaker 3 you know, months before my dad died. And I was like, I can't go.

Speaker 3 And she was like, Gwinny, like, please, we can't, like, we have to get you out of the house and get some air even if it's just for and it was really hard for her too because my dad was like her dad

Speaker 3 and she's like you've got to stop smoking cigarettes we've got to get out of here and I was like okay and so we went and because they had been writing that we were boyfriend and girlfriend

Speaker 3 you know his his assistant Vicki

Speaker 3 who we still love to this day, she was like, she came and said like, oh, hi, this is so crazy. You want to go meet your boyfriend, you know, after the show.

Speaker 3 So we went backstage and um we met and he was just so sweet and like

Speaker 3 i met him when he was like 25 and i i had just turned 30 and he was like tigger the tiger you know bouncing around and

Speaker 3 i really didn't even think we would go out but i don't know he called me and asked me to come to ireland to see him and go to a show and I was so depressed.

Speaker 3 So my and I remember my other friend, Henrietta, at this time saying, you you know, she was like,

Speaker 3 I said, this is crazy. This kid from Coldplay asked me to go, you know, see his concert.
I'm like, this is nuts. Like, I'm not going.

Speaker 3 And she's like, yeah, you've got to go. This is the first time you've smiled since your dad died.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God.

Speaker 3 So I went.

Speaker 1 How was your relationship with Chris different from all of your like previous relationships?

Speaker 3 Well, you know, there was just something, I don't know, I think there are certain things that kind of have felt preordained in my life. And

Speaker 3 like my

Speaker 3 children feel like, to me, like the whole reason I'm on this earth. And so

Speaker 3 when I met him, there was a very deep thing there. And I couldn't quite put my finger on it because it felt very different than my other relationships.

Speaker 3 And it's not so much that the relationship itself turned out to be like healthier than my other relationships. It's just that I think I had this deep calling.

Speaker 3 On some level, I knew he was going to be the father of my kids, maybe, or something.

Speaker 1 Oh my god.

Speaker 3 It was very, it was a very strong feeling. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I'm interested to know, too, like, you know, you mentioned that right before you kind of met Chris, like a few weeks prior, your dad had passed.

Speaker 3 Yeah, three weeks before.

Speaker 1 How did that impact, do you think, like the early days of your relationship?

Speaker 3 I mean, I was broken. I was, my father was,

Speaker 3 you know, like, I just adored him. And he was like, you know, my,

Speaker 3 my teacher, my rabbi. He was like the comedian.
He was like so unconditionally loving.

Speaker 3 And he was the center of all of our, my whole family kind of centered on him. So when he died, you know, I was completely like decimated.

Speaker 3 And so I was very raw and very open, you know, didn't totally have my,

Speaker 3 like I couldn't see straight. Like I was in full, full grief.
I don't, I don't know how Chris kind of like dealt with me through that time.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because I'm interested. Like, I think loss is, there's no way to describe like how you're going to grieve.

Speaker 1 And thinking about like meeting Chris, falling in love while also like deeply grieving, those are like very opposite emotional headspaces to be in.

Speaker 1 And when you look back,

Speaker 1 do you think that affected your perception of like of the relationship at all?

Speaker 3 Probably. I don't see how it couldn't have.
Like, I was so altered and so destroyed.

Speaker 3 I can't imagine it didn't, you know? And I can't imagine that I didn't project like hope and safety and future, you know, onto him

Speaker 3 because I was in such a bad state.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So we talked about how you were engaged at one point to shout out Brad. And then you eventually...

Speaker 1 Who doesn't love Brad? You love Brad. We all love Brad.
I love how it's like, Brad or Ben, this is about to be a game. You're like, Brad.
I'm like, wait, I didn't play the game yet.

Speaker 1 We all love Brad. Shout out, Brad.
You know, we love you. So you got engaged and you said you weren't ready to be married.
Right. You married Chris.
How did you know when?

Speaker 1 it was time to end a marriage and to move on with your life.

Speaker 3 Well, it was interesting because again, like being so driven by this like feeling of the impending children, like I

Speaker 3 got pregnant really quickly and had our kids like in pretty quick succession.

Speaker 3 And so then you're sort of thrown into, like I, I was like in grief and then I had Apple and then I had Moses. And

Speaker 3 then I think you just,

Speaker 3 you just try to make it work, especially for me. You know, I don't like barely, I think we have one, you know, barely any divorce in our family.
All of my best friends from, you know,

Speaker 3 elementary school, high school,

Speaker 3 they're all married to like their college sweetheart. Like, no one, I wasn't around to, like, I just felt like it was such a failure.
And

Speaker 3 even contemplating us not being together. And I, I was so worried about it for the kids and for what it said about me.
And it was so hard and then

Speaker 3 you know

Speaker 3 i i really wanted something very different to what he wanted and

Speaker 3 and i felt very um

Speaker 3 kind of lonely in the marriage in a lot of ways and

Speaker 3 um and i just finally got to the point where i thought like you know

Speaker 3 i need to

Speaker 3 I need to listen to myself. And so, you know, it wasn't until

Speaker 3 right after I turned, you know, it was like kind of around, it was sort of like around 38 that I started to

Speaker 3 sense that the marriage wasn't going to last. And then I tried really hard for another couple of years.
But, you know,

Speaker 3 I say this all the time because it's true.

Speaker 3 You get this software upgrade when you turn 40. Like, you just get an upgrade.
Like, you wake up and your software is fucking upgraded.

Speaker 1 and you're like, wow, this is bizarre.

Speaker 3 Like I don't care what anybody thinks of me. Like I like myself.
Like you click into this thing and that happens again when you're 50, by the way. And it's so,

Speaker 3 it's so, it feels like you feel whole. And

Speaker 3 I just realized like I, I need to not be in this. I need, I need something else.
And it's okay if I'm alone and it's okay if I disappoint people.

Speaker 3 And it's okay okay if I never find anyone again, all the things that you're so worried about, you know, when you're contemplating divorce. And I, I chose

Speaker 3 myself.

Speaker 1 I love that.

Speaker 1 And thank you for sharing because I, I don't even like, no matter where you're at in your life, I do feel like it kind of goes back to what you said of like, we know when we're not happy, when we're not feeling it, when it's not right anymore, it doesn't mean it wasn't right.

Speaker 1 Right. But like, We keep growing and we keep evolving as individuals.

Speaker 1 And naturally, sometimes that means you're going to outgrow a partner or you're going to outgrow something that you initially were attracted to. And I think that's okay.

Speaker 1 And I think, especially as women, it's like a very negative feeling and shameful feeling you have on yourself if it's you, the one that's having those feelings.

Speaker 1 Because I feel like we always learned like, men will leave and men will do this. But if it's you, like it has been a pretty like new concept that like, oh my God, you can leave a marriage.

Speaker 1 Like you can stand up for yourself. You can have a voice.

Speaker 1 So I appreciate you sharing that because it is in some way, inspirational to just know: like, you have these incredible children, you had a healthy marriage at one point, and then it's like, and then it's time to move on.

Speaker 1 And that's okay.

Speaker 3 It is okay. It is okay.
And it's like not what you want. And it's not when you get married, it's not what you hope for.
But it's okay if it's not the right thing anymore, you know.

Speaker 3 And for me, it really then became about: is it possible to stay a family with this person that I really love?

Speaker 3 And I wanted to minimize the impact on our children, which, of course, they're impacted and divorce is terrible. And I know it was really hard on them.
And, but I wanted it to be as

Speaker 3 least,

Speaker 3 you know,

Speaker 3 like I wanted to try to figure out a way that Chris and I could stay like real family, which we have.

Speaker 1 The last question I have on that is like, has it gotten easier to co-parent? Like in the beginning, I can imagine it's like any family feels it.

Speaker 1 Like it's a little rockier, like trying to get your footing.

Speaker 1 And then eventually, does it get to a place where like it does feel more cohesive?

Speaker 3 If you work on it, like you really have to work at it. And

Speaker 3 I think you have to choose every day to remember the good in the person, why you love them, you know, hold them with a lot of

Speaker 3 love and respect

Speaker 3 and cultivate that, especially on days that you don't feel that because you feel, you know, wronged or angry or whatever it is, you know, and

Speaker 3 so it became a practice for me to

Speaker 3 remember all the ways in which, you know, Chris was a blessing in my life. And,

Speaker 3 you know, and like there are just things about him that are so fantastic. And he's so funny and he's so talented and he's goofy and we all laugh a lot.

Speaker 3 And so I tried to to really focus on those things and then also use the opportunity to focus on my side of the street and what I had not done well and what I could learn and, you know, the ways in which I hurt him and the ways, you know, so it was a, it was a big, I think, you know, it's probably best said, like.

Speaker 3 I really milked the opportunity.

Speaker 3 And, you know, it's like a divorce, it sounds weird to say it's an opportunity, but I really wanted to learn as much as possible and I wanted to grow as much as I possibly could out of it.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I kind of feel like a theme today is just like

Speaker 1 knowing what's best for yourself. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 you played a vital role in starting the Me Too movement and you were very open about your experience.

Speaker 1 How did you decide to come forward and talk about everything?

Speaker 3 It was. scary because, you know, I had grown up watching the women who had spoken out be reviled, rejected, you know, pilloried in the town square.

Speaker 3 And I had never seen a model where a woman could speak out and there would be repercussions that were on the man and not on the woman.

Speaker 3 And so

Speaker 3 this was a story that... you know, everybody, it was like this, the worst kept secret.

Speaker 3 Not that Harvey Weinstein was raping people, but that he was sort of crossing boundaries and trying stuff on. And we all kind of knew that was happening.

Speaker 3 And like my story had happened to 10 of my friends, you know.

Speaker 3 But when I had learned the full extent of what he had done through my cooperation with the New York Times and talking to Jodi and Megan, who are two incredible women, incredible investigative journalists,

Speaker 3 I just thought, you know, this is, this has got to stop. And I felt like

Speaker 1 if

Speaker 3 maybe there was a chance it could impact the workplace for my daughter and her friends, like I felt really obligated to say something.

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Did you shower? And I'm like, eh, whatever. I look gorgeous.
That's the point.

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Speaker 1 I appreciate also just how open you are about your experiences and kind of speaking about, like, you know, raising children now in this new era as like women that can have a voice.

Speaker 1 Like, how do you talk to, I guess, both of your kids about like dating and sex and relationships?

Speaker 3 I mean, I think you have to tread lightly and

Speaker 3 let them come to you. I remember my kids both went to this fantastic elementary elementary school here in Los Angeles once we moved from London

Speaker 3 and they taught them sex ed in sixth grade, which,

Speaker 3 yeah, like okay, I just, but I really was not prepared with the information that they came home with.

Speaker 1 What did they say?

Speaker 3 I will never forget Apple and her best friend Emily sitting at our kitchen banquet

Speaker 1 in shock, like color drained from their face.

Speaker 3 They taught them everything.

Speaker 3 Everything.

Speaker 3 Anything you're thinking, they taught like the 11, 12-year-olds.

Speaker 1 Told them everything. What? I swear.
And what are they saying to you? Like, mom, we're going to be able to do that. They're like, do people do this way? It was speaking.

Speaker 1 You're like, you know what? One day you'll hear a little bit more of this on Call Her Daddy, Apple. Exactly.
And it will be in a more appropriate way.

Speaker 1 Well, that's what i was gonna say then you took over so i didn't have to tell her anything holy shit so i'm in hawaii and i'm walking to the elevator with my boyfriend we're staying at a resort and i see this girl sprinting down the hallway with a bag and i'm like what is going on i think she's beelining it to me it is a fan of mine And she hands me a goop bag.

Speaker 1 And there was, there's like a goop store in this Hawaii resort. Samana Lani.

Speaker 1 Shout out. So I'm like, oh, thank you.
She's like, I love you. Like you've taught me so much.
Like I want you to enjoy your vacation and winks at me.

Speaker 1 So I go upstairs and I open it and it's a beautiful vibrator. And I was like, oh my God, this is incredible.

Speaker 1 And then immediately I'm like, thanks to Gwyneth, like, because I hadn't brought a vibrator on this trip. And it was used and it was used again.
It was great. It was a great time.
It was a great time.

Speaker 3 I thought you were going to say, I thought you just said, like, meaning you opened the box and it was used.

Speaker 1 And I just died. And this vibrator was fully used.
Fuck you. No, no, I used it on my trip.
Okay, thanks. It was phenomenal.

Speaker 1 And so I'm curious to know, because I'm a big advocate for toys and vibrators, especially for women. We have like obviously a harder time getting off.
When is the first time you used a vibrator?

Speaker 3 Wow.

Speaker 3 Probably when Sex in the City came out and, you know, Samantha was talking about like everyone.

Speaker 3 I remember like you would go to a bridal shower and like there all of a sudden there were vibrators like as party favors and it's almost like they stopped being party favors and they need to be again because I remember in college being like I think I need one.

Speaker 1 This is disgusting. Well, it's not.
I started to use the back of my electric toothbrush because I didn't know where to get a vibrator at the time, Gwyneth. Yeah, thanks to goop.

Speaker 1 Now we know where to go. Thank you.
But at the time it was like, I'll get a new toothbrush in the morning. Like this is desperate times goals for desperate measures.

Speaker 1 And there I was with a good old back of the toothbrush. I didn't use it in the morning, everyone.
Don't come for me. Why do you think women are so intimidated, though, by vibrators?

Speaker 1 Well, you know,

Speaker 3 this is a very, this could be like a very long discussion. I mean, there's such

Speaker 3 systemic shame for women historically around pleasure. And

Speaker 3 we are, to your point, we do live in a patriarchal society.

Speaker 3 The paradigms aren't there for female pleasure.

Speaker 3 And so we've been taught to be like ashamed of it, not ask for things, not ask for, not say like this feels good or this doesn't feel good.

Speaker 3 And this is why at Goop we have really kind of indexed into this area because I really feel like it holds us back so much.

Speaker 3 It's this one area where, and look, like I'm still not comfortable talking about it. Like this is inculcated in for decades.

Speaker 3 Like it's, and I'm so happy when I see it changing in your generation and apples, like and this sort of freedom around the idea that women deserve pleasure.

Speaker 3 It makes me so happy to see that, but it has not always been that way.

Speaker 1 You're so right. The shame comes from obviously as women.
It's never been celebrated to like pleasure yourself. You hear about like men or boys when you're younger.

Speaker 1 It's like, oh, he's just touching himself. Oh, girl.
It's like, stop doing that. Like, it's wrong.
Just do it secretly.

Speaker 1 So now I love, though, I agree that like it can be cute and fun and clean and not scary and veiny and too large that you're like, that's bigger than my thigh. Like, what is happening?

Speaker 1 So, no, I really appreciate that you have what you've done because now I have my little baby purple little like bullet vibrator and it I use it all the time.

Speaker 1 I don't know if that freaks you out, but not at all.

Speaker 3 Not in the slightest.

Speaker 1 Okay, Gwyneth, what is the craziest place that you've had sex?

Speaker 1 Um,

Speaker 1 I mean, I've never, I don't know.

Speaker 3 I've been famous for so long that, like,

Speaker 3 you're getting it. You know?

Speaker 3 I think one time back in the day, I did it in an airplane bathroom on an overnight flight to Paris.

Speaker 1 Would you drop the name of who it was with?

Speaker 3 It wasn't anyone famous.

Speaker 1 Okay. Isn't that terrible? It's amazing.

Speaker 1 No, I'm like, I want the tea. I'm like, oh, that won't make headlines.
No, I'm just kidding. No, that's great.
Okay, so when you were famous, you were having sex with normal men. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You're a woman of the people. I was.
Yeah. Of course.

Speaker 1 How would you meet normal guys, though, and like not be freaked out?

Speaker 3 Well,

Speaker 1 well,

Speaker 3 that's a good point. I mean, you know, do you know, like, I miss the whole dating app thing and all of that.
Like, I totally missed that.

Speaker 3 Like, one normal guy I dated when I was famous was, you know, friends with my friends growing up in New York, like that kind of thing. There were, I think, I did like one or two.

Speaker 1 You're going to tell us who that other eight lister is at some point by the end of this interview. Okay.

Speaker 1 You started a wellness brand, but you did this before it was cool to like start a wellness brand. How did you come up with the concept of goop?

Speaker 3 Well, I think kind of circling back to where we started, by the time I had Apple, I felt like I really needed a break from acting.

Speaker 3 I had worked like nonstop for years and years and years, running, running, running.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 1 I had her and

Speaker 3 I had like one of these moments in life. And, you know, we had like a really crazy birth.
It was very dramatic. And I kind of at some point passed out after having a seizure.
Anyway, I woke up and

Speaker 3 I

Speaker 3 opened my eyes and these like

Speaker 3 giant blue eyes were looking right at me. We were like this.

Speaker 3 And I was like,

Speaker 3 this is,

Speaker 3 this is it.

Speaker 1 This is it.

Speaker 3 And Drew Barrymore actually said this to me the best where

Speaker 3 she said when she looked into her daughter Olive's eyes,

Speaker 3 She had the same thing. And then she said to Olive later, I was born the day you were born

Speaker 3 it always makes me cry because it's true but that's how i felt and like i didn't i i was like i don't know what i'm gonna do i don't want to leave this baby i don't want to go back to work and luckily i was in a position where i could take some time off with so many women in this country cannot do

Speaker 3 and in scandinavia they do it and places like that but we are not good at that

Speaker 3 So I was very fortunate. And the longer I didn't work, the more I started to call into question, like,

Speaker 3 wait, was I doing that because I really loved it? Was it like, and I gave myself the space to kind of contemplate if I wanted to go back or not. I ended up not doing a movie for like three years.

Speaker 3 I had my son, um,

Speaker 3 and then I went back a little bit to do like smaller parts and Iron Man and stuff like that. Um, but I actually never starred in a movie again since I was pregnant with Apple.

Speaker 3 Like, we were in my last starring role together. And

Speaker 3 then I did something which I think I would really

Speaker 3 encourage women to do, which is at some point stop and say, like, am I where,

Speaker 3 am I where I'm supposed to be? Am I doing what I love? Am I spending my life feeling fulfilled? And

Speaker 3 am I brave enough to give myself permission to do something different if I want to?

Speaker 3 And I knew that if I started a company, I would take a lot of shit for it. And people were like, what is she doing?

Speaker 3 And there was no model for this, except for the great Jane Fonda, who had, you know, done her fitness business, but also took a ton of shit for that at the time.

Speaker 3 They called into question like her seriousness as an actress. Like everybody likes us in one little box, you know?

Speaker 3 But I was really interested in this other space, which was really essentially like connecting people to great things that would make their lives better.

Speaker 3 And I was, I had always been that person for my friends. Like, what temperature do I roast a chicken at? Like, where can I get a bikini wax in Paris?

Speaker 3 Like, you know, and I thought, God, you know, I love answering these questions so much. I love doing the research.
I love figuring it out. Like, maybe I could do this as a job.

Speaker 3 And so it percolated for a long, long, long, long time.

Speaker 3 And I got a lot of advice from different people. And that's when I thought, okay,

Speaker 3 I'll just start it as a newsletter and then we'll see how it goes. And it was unmonetized.
It was just, you know, I just was sending content out.

Speaker 3 And it stayed like that for probably five years until I had the guts to start to think around monetization and what I would do.

Speaker 1 It's amazing to hear you also explain it because I agree with you.

Speaker 1 Like when you immediately said Jane Fonda, as you were talking, I was thinking about Jane Fonda because I'm like, it's so crazy that as you're trying to put something together that had never been done,

Speaker 1 your first reaction, even though though like you knew you wanted to do it, we immediately think,

Speaker 1 oh my God, everyone's going to shit on me. Like they want me to just be, just be an actress.
Like just stay in your lane. That's right.

Speaker 1 And it's so detrimental because that's so not the only thing that you are talented with and that also that you're interested in.

Speaker 1 And so I love this story because it shows full circle of you putting into action an idea you had and then obviously creating something so much bigger that also is so helpful to so so many women, including myself.

Speaker 1 Thank you. What is one goop product that you wish you had in your 20s that now you're suggesting to Apple and her friends?

Speaker 3 Like, you need this?

Speaker 3 This is real because when I was in my 20s, I lay in the sun with baby oil on my face. I never use sunscreen.
Believe me, I'm paying that price now. You look great.
Thank you.

Speaker 3 I'll give you my surgeons. Please.

Speaker 1 Please, yes, I don't.

Speaker 1 But actually, please.

Speaker 3 So I wish that I had taken greater care of my skin earlier. And what's so great now is that we've come so far with product development.
And because clean beauty is a huge thing for me. Like,

Speaker 3 obviously, that's why one of the main reasons we started Goop, I was appalled at the levels of toxicity in beauty products that are largely unregulated. We put all over our skin.

Speaker 3 they're transdermally absorbed they mess with our endocrine systems there's like real toxicity levels and a lot of stuff that we think is safe and that just drives me crazy yeah so

Speaker 3 I saw a real white space you know to create these products and

Speaker 3 and anyway like for the women out there now like look i would recommend i mean we have this new eye cream that's coming out right now that's so incredible and it's like packed full of vitamin c and it's got caffeine and niacinamide and it works so well and it's very preventative as well.

Speaker 3 So I can use it for my crow's feet and my dark circles and Apple can use it preventatively.

Speaker 1 I love it. I need it.
We brought you one. Oh, thank you.
Thank you. You recently also launched the Goop Sex Instagram channel.
Yes.

Speaker 1 What's a conversation that you're looking forward to having on that page?

Speaker 3 Well, again, like just to sort of traverse back over what we were saying, it's so important for women to have places that they can, you know, and resources.

Speaker 3 And like, that's why what you do is so fantastic in terms of

Speaker 3 destigmatization, creating a space where women can explore these questions and these feelings and like the normalization. It's just really beautiful.
And I'm so glad that you do what you do.

Speaker 3 Thank you. And we we really felt like, you know, there's more to explore here in terms of questions people have, products, et cetera.
So we thought we'd make a dedicated page.

Speaker 3 You know, I learned from the Goop Sex page. Like, I'm like, wow,

Speaker 1 what is this?

Speaker 1 I love that. One of my last questions is, I was just thinking about this for a second.
Like, what do you think is a misconception about you?

Speaker 3 Oh, I think there are probably a few.

Speaker 3 I think, like,

Speaker 3 maybe not as much anymore, but I think like there was the misconception like that I that me and goop that we together were like wacky or you know like dealing in pseudoscience, which is such bullshit.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 like we're actually

Speaker 3 so

Speaker 3 rigorous around like what we're talking about. And sometimes we talk about really cutting edge things, but we really label the content as that.
So we're not saying this is fact.

Speaker 3 We're saying like this is an emerging theory or something. So I think that's a way to keep

Speaker 3 also the power of the brand down, right? So it's like if you're threatening the status quo, like people used to throw that at us a lot.

Speaker 1 What about personally?

Speaker 3 I think I can maybe come off or look quite cold, maybe, or like

Speaker 3 unapproachable, I've heard, but I think I'm really opposite to that.

Speaker 1 Like I do think I'm so curious about people and I think I'm warm, but when you walked into my house I was like oh my gosh hi we like hugged and I was like I felt like a part of the family when Apple walked in I'm like oh we're all going to hang like you yeah I can dispel that rumor now I have a gift for you really

Speaker 1 well it's kind of a yeah I'm gonna give it to you it's Brad Pitt guys no no no

Speaker 1 I saw a comment you made. Okay, wait, I saw a comment you made on the internet.
Okay. And I wanted to gift you this.
What did I say?

Speaker 3 Oh my God. I always, you know, me and my internet comments.

Speaker 1 Oh, this is so good.

Speaker 3 I hope you got one for Apple, too.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. I should have.

Speaker 1 Love it. I saw your comment on Haley Bavaria.

Speaker 3 This is so good. I'm going to wear this loud and proud.

Speaker 1 I truly love it. No, Gwenna, thank you so much for coming on.
This was truly so fun. It wasn't, it wasn't too aggressive, right? Not at all.
It was, you had a good time.

Speaker 3 I'll check in with her and see what Apple has to say about it.

Speaker 1 Apple, we're gonna walk in is like this.

Speaker 1 No, seriously, thank you for coming on. This was so fun.
Thank you for having me. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker 3 Thank you so much. That was really fun.

Speaker 1 That was so fun. I am dying laughing.

Speaker 1 You were comedy.

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