RuPaul: Blocking Out the Bullshit (FBF)

Hi, Daddy Gang. It is your father.
I am so excited that Caller Daddy has officially joined the SiriusXM family. I cannot wait to talk to new guests and continue to share my crazy personal stories and experiences with you every single week.
If you want to hear new episodes ad-free, subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts Plus on Apple

Podcasts or visit SiriusXM.com slash podcasts plus to start your free trial today. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Tinder.
Meeting new people just got way more fun because now you don't have to do it alone. With Tinder's new double date feature, you and your bestie can match together.
Tap the double date icon to see profiles built for two. When two pairs match, the group chat kicks off.
Scope the profiles, send memes, keep the chat fun, hype each other up, flirt a little, maybe plan a hangout. You guys, this is the new way to do it.
Try the new Tinder double date. Explore all the possibilities.
Tinder, it starts with a swipe. Download Tinder today.
Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Stouffer's. Let me just tell you something.
Growing up, if there was one thing that was always in the Cooper house, it was Stouffer's, okay? And most of the time, we pulled out the Stouffer's when my dad was traveling because he was always the one that was like cooking. And when my mom was the one in charge, boom, we didn't have dinner dread.
Although dinner dread is real. We didn't have it because we had Stouffer's.
The idea of cooking a big meal, it's too overwhelming. And you also don't want to like be waiting for an hour for delivery.
And so there's this constant back and forth of like, my night is just going to be ruined. No, it's not.
Let Stouffer save the day or night. When the clock strikes dinner, think Stouffer's.
Okay. From lasagna to mac and cheese to air fryer entrees.
Stouffer's has your favorite meal right when you need it. And each frozen meal is made with real ingredients and full of flavor.
My personal favorite is the Swedish meatballs. They slap every single time.
So cancel the internal dinner debate and solve dinner dread with Stouffer's. Shop now at your nearest retailer today.
Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Uber Eats. Okay, Daddy Gang, we all know Uber Eats has the best selection of local restaurants, but did you know they also eat when it comes to a whole range of delivery services? Now that might be a lot to take in.
So let me break it down for you. Uber Eats isn't just for poolside poke bowls or late night pizza on the patio.
When you can't make it to the store, you can get just about anything you need delivered straight to your door with Uber Eats. right now you could be checking off your whole shopping list.
Okay. I am so excited to have friends over for summer on pool days.
And you know what the last thing I want to do is when the UV is a tan outside, go to the grocery store. Okay.
That's not my to-do list. Okay.
I love that on Uber Eats, I can get tequila for the margaritas. I can get meat for the barbecue and sunscreen when I realized that my tan is unfortunately turning into a burn.
And when it gets too hot in LA to be running outside doing errands, I'm just like, oh, I need to be inside. I love that I can sit in my sweats on my couch and the freezing air conditioning and get everything I need delivered without ever having to step outside.
Okay. The goal is to never leave my house.
So get grocery, alcohol, and everyday essentials in addition to the restaurant food you love. So in other words, get almost, almost anything with Uber Eats.
Order now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age.
Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region.
app for details what is up daddy gang it is your founding father alex cooper with call her daddy okay okay okay rupaul welcome to call her daddy thanks thank you so much for being here i am very very excited to talk to you i think my fans are going to freak out i think this collab is going to be very fun when are you your most confident uh when i'm alone people freak me out man people freak people are freaky most people think of confidence as power or as having stuff or doing things but it's that's not I feel most confident when I'm not distracted by other people's bullshit. Period.
Would you consider yourself high or low maintenance? Oh, I am so low maintenance. I am so low maintenance.
You would not believe it. Really? Yes.
I can take care of myself. And you know what? I open my own door.
I take care of myself and you know what uh I open my own door I take care of

myself being alone with yourself being good with yourself and relying on yourself it's kind of all

you fucking need it really is Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Claude, the if-you-know-you-know AI assistant that's vibing with millions of people around the world. Think of Claude as your pocket AI agony aunt for dating advice, journaling, or as a sounding board for those important life decisions.
You can ask Claude to help with almost any task, whether it's crafting you a business plan for that side hustle, giving you style ideas based on photos of your wardrobe, or even interior design inspo for that awkward corner of your living room, because we all have it. While other AI assistants sound like robots, Claude just gets it when it comes to empathy and emotional intelligence.
Basically, Claude's a supportive king. You can try Claude for free at any time and for a special offer on premium features with Claude Pro, head to claude.ai slash chd.
That's C a u d e dot a i slash chd call her daddy is brought to you by airbnb you guys i feel like 2025 was the year of personal trips for me i'm always traveling for work but this year i I really felt like I found time with Airbnb to find incredible good places to stay, whether it was a romantic getaway, whether I was traveling for one of my friend's weddings. Matt and I really made sure that we were staying in Airbnbs because when I'm traveling, I want to feel comfortable.
I want to feel like I have a piece of home with me. And as you guys know, I love my dogs, Henry and Bruce.
Shout out if you're listening to this. I want to be with my dogs at all times.
And so finding an Airbnb that can accommodate dogs really means a lot to me. An Airbnb is the best way to make your trip one to remember because you get to explore not only a new city, but a new space in that city.
I personally love staying like a local because it really helps you immerse yourself wherever you are, as opposed to feeling like you're a tourist. You can grab grocery at the local market.
You can explore the neighborhood bars and the restaurants. And if you just want to go somewhere, but you don't really know where yet, let Airbnb make the decision for you.
Guest favorites might inspire you and perhaps even create a new tradition. My number one tip is to check out Airbnb first to find the perfect place to stay because your accommodation can really make or break the trip.
Okay, let's talk about your memoir. Congratulations, The House of Hidden Meanings.
I think that this book is incredible because you offer like a very personal look into your childhood. You offer a personal look into early relationships and just some of the biggest struggles that you've been through in your life.
So let's get into it. As a little boy, did you want to be famous? Like would anyone have been surprised that you became famous in your life? No one would have been surprised that I became famous.
And did I want to become famous? It wasn't even about did I want to. I knew it was my destiny I felt that people would, had pointed me out from a very early age that says, hey, who are you? What are you doing? Hey, you, you know, I was always, different is the wrong term.
It was someone that people noticed, right? So I knew that somehow my destiny involved being out front.

And the truth is I am an introvert masquerading as an extrovert.

And I can do it.

I can do the thing like, hey, how you doing?

What's up?

Hey, you know what?

Is that cashmere?

Oh, my God, I love cashmere.

Cashmere, not the word cashmere, you know, where I just go on and just look like I'm

being open, open, open.

I know how to do it. But the truth is my real sense, you know, I'm just being chill.
Just being chill. Do you get exhausted? It can exhaust me.
I, you know, if I'm not working, I like to spend time alone to recharge my battery, but it can be exhausting. Now, I usually keep that hidden, tucked away.
And I pretend like, oh, my God, is that cash beerere and i'll do the thing but the truth is i don't give a fuck about cashmere but i do that to get through to get through life and to maintain and to you know uh to get endorsement deals and to get uh people to like me on social and do all the stuff first all, thank you for just being honest because I think a lot of people actually will completely relate to what you're saying of like, it's fucking exhausting trying to walk into work, walk into rooms and having to put on a facade because at the end of the day, none of us are going to be completely the same when we walk into a room with other people than we are when we're alone. But there is a world of social currency that you need to somewhat engage in, especially if this is your career.
It's like, you're right. You got to sit across from me right now.
And I'm sorry, but I'm going to ask you questions about this memoir. Listen, I do enjoy cashmere from time to time.
You know, I can do the thing. But what most people don't know about me is that is that base level thing which is um don't take any of this too seriously otherwise you get yourself caught up in in trouble and and and wars and you know getting your feelings hurt I mean it's it's a lot it's a lot um in the book talk a lot about your family dynamics.
Can you kind of paint the picture of what your relationship was like with your mother growing up? I loved my mother. I love the fact that she, too, she didn't believe the bullshit.
She just didn't. And unfortunately for her, I think most of that came out of world weariness.
And I think she didn't talk about her childhood very much or at all. But I have a feeling some really awful things happened to her as a little girl.
And so she was very world weary. So she didn't put up the pretense.
You know, like I can do the Kashmir speak. She did not at all, at all.
And she would cuss someone out. We could cuss in the house.
We could, you know, and, you know, I felt growing up my role was to sort of lift her up. And I did.
And I would do my impersonations for her, you know, of Tina Turner or Geraldine from the Flip Wilson show. But she was, she had a dark, dark cloud over her.
And I related to that. I understood it very well, because if you look at the world with x-ray eyes, there is so much darkness and sadness.
So I choose joy. Now, that doesn't mean that I don't recognize the darkness or the pain.
And I do. I look at the darkness, but I don't stare at it.
I want to say that again so you motherfuckers can get it. I look at the darkness, but I don't stare because it will suck you in.
And you are a powerful witch. powerful you can create whatever life you want life asked what do you want me to be okay i'll be that i also was just thinking i may be butchering this i remember there was this one line that you wrote about her basically saying something about like if i'm not paying their fucking taxes why the fuck do i give a shit what they're doing? If they ain't paying your bills, pay them bitches no mind.
That was my mother. And it's true.
And it's sort of, you know, the same philosophy as what other people think of me is none of my business. I'm curious, though, when you talk about your mother in the book, as strong as she was,

as a child, it seemed like there wasn't a lot of this affection and coming to you with love. How do you think you internalized that as a child? Yeah.
Well, first of all, I put her first and I understood what her pain was. So I guess I justified her not being that affectionate or that sort of idea of mothering that we all think of.
She was not that. In adulthood, I understood that, oh, she probably could have been more loving.
But at the time, I felt empathy for her because I knew that she was in so much pain. I mean, she was always, the whole time of my childhood, she was at war with my father, you know, and it made me feel like a diplomat.
And it taught me how to read the room and figure out what people needed. I knew what I could say around my father and what I could say around my mother, these warring factors, and to not incriminate one or the other.
I knew how to give them what they wanted without giving too much information about my mother to my father and vice versa. You talk about this big moment where your mom finds out that your dad was cheating on her in the book.
Can you kind of like talk to me about that day? Because it was a pretty intense day. Well, he was he'd always been, you know, out seeing other women.
But this one, I guess this time it just rubbed her the wrong way. And we will circle back around to the whole idea of cheating, too.
Because, you know, x-ray eyes on a situation. Is cheating really a thing? I mean, come on.
People do things. Men want to spread it around.
It's just the animal that they are. Now, if someone promises you that all of this area here is going to be only for them, they're lying.
You think? Oh, not think that it's and i know for women they're like oh no um he's going to be mine for everything um who the fuck are you fooling so everyone's cheating it's not cheating it's not cheating if you say you're gonna save all of this area for one person, you are cheating on yourself.

You are cheating on yourself.

Should I not get married?

I'm engaged.

You get married, do whatever you want.

But why would you, to the person you love the most, why would you put restrictions on

them?

And your best friend in the whole wide world, who you love more than anyone else, why would

you say, okay, if you're presented with a situation that is so fabulous and so lovely, I don't want you to do it. That is such an interesting way to look at it.
And I love it. You can get mad at me all you want with this philosophy.
I didn't come up with it.'s just my observation and it's it's true and i

grew up you know i'm around men and men who are listening to this are going yeah they're like he's right look away look away no it's true it's true so um yeah what happened with my mother and father two people who should have never been together you know uh he parked the car in the garage of our house and she poured gasoline all over the car and said motherfucker i will light this bitch up and um i'm five years old my sister's uh rosie is four renee and renette are seven years older than me we're across the street from the house looking at this scene and And the whole neighborhood is out there watching. And she's like, I will.
And Irving is, my father is saying, Tony, please, please don't. And she's got a pack of matches in her hand saying, I will do it.
I'll do it. Eventually, Sister Harris from her church comes and talks her out of it.
And everything is gone. And the fire trucks are there, everything.
But when I think back on this scene, I'm not in my body. I'm actually like a camera on a dolly or a jib looking at the whole scene, moving around the scene like a camera outside of my body.
And what happens with young people, and we all do

this, is we dissociate. And so that the trauma of what's going on doesn't affect us on an emotional level, we separate from our bodies.
We separate from our bodies. And so I don't remember coming back into my body until I got sober, which was right before I turned 40.
I was outside of my body the whole time because it wasn't safe enough to be in there with those feelings. When you look back at that moment, what does it make you feel for your younger self? I feel sad for my younger self.
I absolutely do. Let's talk about your relationship with your father.
Because I know that you wrote that you felt very abandoned by him in moments in your life. And I'm wondering if you can kind of just like paint the picture of that dynamic.
And if there are specific memories that come up at the time, I felt abandoned by him. But through years and years and years and years of realized he had abandoned himself it wasn't personal it's like reading the comments on youtube or whatever about yourself it has nothing to do with me it had everything to do with him i think i'm talking too fast i need to say that all of that this is good one more time so people usually talk so we can like go like i said you want to we can go like super slow i people really need to understand what I just said, which is that it had nothing to

do with me. Of course, as a child, I thought, he just doesn't like me.
No, he didn't like himself, baby. It had nothing to do with you.
Now, my ego wanted to make it about me, but no, no. He, he, I saw a psychic 30 years ago who said, well, your father, you and your father shared past lives together.
So when you came into this, when you came into this life together, you were like, hey, buddy, it's you. Let's party.
Let's boogie. Hey, we're going to have a, we're going to, we're going to rule the school.
But he could not see me. And I spent so much time saying, wait, you need joy?

I'll give you some of my joy. You need a reminder? Let me remind you of who you are.
Could not see it. And through therapy, I realized, well, he couldn't see it because for a person to become present in this moment, and this is true of every human on this planet,

to be present in this moment, and this is true of every human on this planet, to be present in this moment would invite you to recognize how much pain you're in right now. So we distract ourselves with whatever we can get our hands on to not experience the depth of pain that we are in.
But to move forward in this life, you have to walk through that fire. You have to walk through that pain to get to the other side.
There's no other way. There isn't.
And I think it can take people a lifetime. Some people never get to that point.
Some people engage in therapy and then they're like, oh, fuck, I don't want to do this. But it's like you have to open it up to actually see what's in there to then get through it to get on the other side you're right and I think about the this this moment that you write about in the book where you would sit outside your house on the steps and you're waiting for your dad and you're waiting for your dad and I think you're so right where so many people can relate probably that are listening to like yearning for from like their parents for something that they want and you're so right like it had nothing to fucking do with you he wasn't not showing up because he's like god I hate room I don't want to see his face when I pull up to the house but you're sitting there being like he didn't come home because of me and it's like it literally had nothing to do with you that's right but that's hard to understand at such a young age.
So you just internalize it like, damn, my dad fucking hates me. He's abandoned me.
I'm nothing. Like, what's wrong with me? That's right.
How did your relationship with your father inform the romantic relationships and men you ended up pursuing and choosing? Well, obviously, I never got that validation from my father my father so of course uh playing the role of Ruth's father today is so and so and it would be the it's like it's like the exact uh replica uh charming charismatic good looking but not available so I would replay this thing over and over relationship

after relationship until I ultimately met George, who was someone who chased me, chased me. And I didn't know what to do with it.
I said, you know, okay, so let me, okay, what's that going to look like. I'm so used to being the chaser.
So to allow someone to chase me, it changed everything. It changed everything.
And of course, I had to get in touch with my ability to love myself. even just to accept it like even you saying like like, which we're gonna get to, like when you met your husband, it must have been such a strange feeling to accept a love that you had never experienced.
Your mother being distant, your father not showing up for you, to then have someone pursuing you, you're like, what the fuck is going on? Like this feels good, but what's off? and so in a strange way a lot of the times the the the thing we're used to that is what we gravitate towards because it's the norm even if it's fucking toxic and even if it's unhealthy and it's like what the preach bitch right preach it's fucked testify you're like i love this and it's like but you watched your father abuse your mother you watch it so it's fucked up as it is well that you never saw a healthy relationship so how would you know like not to be scared when someone is just being loving being nice coming to you pursuing you you're not begging for attention and affection and love you're like the fuck is going on run something must be off did i do is it just genuine is he lying is he using me what is like the you you spiral and then you run back to what you're used to. And you're like, how do we end the cycle? Which you eventually did.
But let's pause. We need to stay in the 20s.
We need to stay in the 20s. Then we'll get to the husband.
But what you're describing is an abused child who's taken away from abusive home, leaves there and longs to go back home. Because that is what they know.
And oppressed people take on the characteristic of their oppressor. And how do you break that cycle? You have to hit some type of rock bottom to get to that place.
And it is the most difficult thing you will ever do in your entire life. When you talk about these early relationships that you went through before you found your husband, you say it felt like you would absorb your parents' toxic behaviors and patterns.
Fucking relatable. I understand you would like go for people that weren't available, but like, take me to a moment in a room with someone like, what were you putting up with? And then you would pause and be like, am I literally replicating what my fucking parents did my parents did like how am i here well what what the biggest offense is not trusting your instinct and your intuition about something this is something they don't tell you about what getting old uh gives you is that you learn to trust your intuition about a situation a person and you know when you are you are somewhat hypnotized by a person, like I was early 20s, all of that intuition, you push it to the side because you think this is exactly what I need.
This is what I need. It looks like the validation and i i was supposed to get from my father or from my

mother but um that uh that that never works and in fact uh the only validation you ever need

really is from your adult self to your child yeah it's just it's so fucking hard to break the cycle

I'm going to go ahead and do a little bit more. is from your adult self to your child yeah it's just it's so fucking hard to break the cycle and and I want to talk about your 20s you became this well-known performer in the club scene and I know you referenced like I was dissociating most of my life until I got sober and so let's talk about when you weren't sober taking the partying too far indul so heavily in these moments.
Can you talk to me about your club life back then? Yeah, well, listen, I have no idea. I used for 30 years.
I have no idea. The first 20 were a blast.
I had a great time. It was those last 10 that were pure hell.
I had a blast. I had a blast until it didn't work anymore.
And you know what? Thank God for the drugs and alcohol because it saved my life. It gave me a layaway plan, a deferment plan, until I was strong enough to deal with what was going on.
And thankfully, I found a 12-step program that really, really, really helped me so much that I am in love with. And so I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for that.
I would not be here if it wasn't. The success I have today, I wouldn't have that if it weren't for this 12-step program.
Because it takes you through a process of walking back to the scene of the crime and forgiving yourself and giving you the tools, the processing tools to deal with all of the trauma of what life is. You know, we all live with so much trauma.
and you know i feel that not just america i think the whole world is needs to hit rock bottom before we can pull ourselves up because we you know there are two ways to learn you can learn intellectually or you can learn by hitting your head on the on the on the corner of the thing mama said rue don't touch that stove and now if i were smart i would well, mama's been around for a while. She probably knows the right thing.
I'm going to touch the stove. That's who we are.
We touch the stove. We are bashing our heads against everything.
And I agree with you. I think there's going to have to be a rebuild moment.
I appreciate the way you just explained, though, like the drugs and the alcohol and what they were for you, because I think people that haven't had hardship in their life are the people that are like, why don't you just leave the abusive relationship? Why don't you just leave? Just stop. And it's like the pain that you're describing and the pain that people go through when they do dissociate.
there is like a level where like you actually can't re-engage with your reality until you're

fucking ready it's like how I always talk with friends who have been through certain things. They're like, should I get into therapy? I'm like, when you're ready.
Not because I'm saying like, you really need it. Of course, you know you need it.
But when are you ready to actually accept it instead of everyone shoving you in the door? Go to rehab. Go get help.
No, no. When do you know you're ready? Everyone has a different threshold.
Everyone needs to go at a different pace, but the judgment around people that aren't ready, I think we need to have some fucking grace because it is not that fucking linear and simple. It's just not.
It's not. And people are just fucking assholes about it.
I'm curious. Like when you look back at that time in your life, as fun as it was, did you have any, like, self-sabotaging tendencies back then at all? Well, the only, you know, obviously, drugs and alcohol put you in situations that could be highly dangerous.
And I was in those situations, really, mostly, aside from from the drugs that was with people that I was attracted to and trying to to relive the situation uh with my father uh and I guess really with my mother too you know trying to find a situation that would feed my soul. I was looking for soul food.
And I was

looking for a way to fill that void when ultimately that void had to be filled by me.

You talk about how you for a while were like quite uncomfortable with the idea of being wanted,

being desired. What types of things were you doing to avoid being seen sexually? Oh, listen, I didn't have to do anything to not be seen sexually.
Here's the thing. I've always been an oddball.
I don't fit into anyone's description of what sexual, in the sexual hierarchy, right? The sexual hierarchy is, oh, he's a daddy. Oh, you're a twink.
And there's a whole list of those things. I never fit into any of those things until the first time I got into drag, people, men or straight men went, oh, you're that.
And it scared me. It shocked me because I'd never experienced that kind of, what's the word where you're being objectified? Objectification.
I'd never experienced that before. Interesting.
Because I never fit into the sexual hierarchy of blah, blah, blah. So when I got into drag, just as a fluke, my band was doing this thing and we got into drag.
Okay. I couldn't believe the attention

that I got. And I wasn't doing high glam drag.
I was doing, I didn't shave my legs, my hairy chest.

I, you know, I'd smeared lipstick and just, it was like punk rock, you know, drag. But

I noticed a difference in the energy I was getting. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Shopify.
When I was starting my business, I was understandably overwhelmed a lot of times. Sometimes I was isolating myself, feeling like I had to take it all on on my own.
I felt like sometimes I didn't know the answers to certain things. I would just be trying to find a way to make things work.
And that is why Shopify literally changed my life. The beloved commerce platform, Shopify, is taking the guesswork out of launching and scaling a business.
Daddy gang, if you are someone who is trying to get your business off the ground, please, please, please listen up because Shopify literally changed my life. All the way back in the day, if you guys remember when I was first launching my own merch when I left Barstool, I was like, how do I do this? And what is my backend? And who do I talk to? Shopify has basically a suite of AI tools that let you spend less time wondering and more time doing.
Shopify's sidekick literally acts as your AI assistant, guiding you through everything, directions, reports, content ideas, and so much more. It basically is like a high level executive assistant for you.
Also, Shopify basically operates as your back office, replacing the need for a full staff to oversee your operations. So if you are a one woman show right now, just add Shopify to your life and you're going to be like, oh my God, I don't even need to hire more people.
You can tag and sell your products globally and across all major social media platforms so that you can sell where your customers are. Let's be real.
The internet is changing people's lives and it's changing their businesses truly. So there's so much money to be made, Daddy Gang.
I love working with Shopify. I think sometimes I can get overwhelmed thinking like, oh, do I have to have my hands on this? And Shopify throughout the years has literally proven to have my back.
I don't need to be triple checking its work. It's all right there.
They are so reliable. So if you are ready to build your own empire, whether it's merch products or the next big idea, get on Shopify.com slash daddy and make it happen.
That's Shopify.com slash daddy. Daddy gang, this is your sign.
Let's go start your business. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by T-Mobile.
Do you ever meet someone and they're the total package? That's what it feels like being with T-Mobile, daddy gang. Okay.
You won't believe what you get with magenta status. First off, it is amazing coverage.
You're connected where life takes you at home, overseas, in the air, or even off the grid. Okay.
Plus you get unbeatable value from day one. That's not even the icing on the cake.
You ready? You can get perks on travel, dining, concerts, streaming, and more with T-Mobile. You're a member with Magenta status from day one.
Experience amazing value, next level connectivity, and access to exclusive benefits, you really can have your cake and eat it too. Here's the thing about Magenta status.
I am someone who needs to be having so much work done on a plane. I'm constantly traveling for work.
And if I'm up there and I can't get my access, I'm gonna have a mental breakdown, okay? Also, it is so nice to be able to stream and watch my favorite shows. Also, the best part of staying in a nice hotel, right? Feeling like you've got that extra access, that little extra value that you're getting from T-Mobile, they're always looking out for us.
So Daddy Gang, experience magenta status at T-Mobile.com slash benefits. Let's talk about George because it almost made me tear up when you teared up at the very beginning of this interview.
You just mentioned his name and you got teary eyed. And I don't know like what comes up for you when you even just saying it.
He's lovely. He's a lovely person.
He can be, he's grumpy. He's, he's angry.
He's all of those things's lovely he's lovely person he can be he's grumpy he's he's angry he's all of those things but he's lovely he really is he's a lovely person and i like him more than anybody else i mean i think that's great too because you obviously love being alone so someone who loves being alone so much i'm very similar i sit here and i perform all day and i need to get the fuck home don't fucking talk to me don't look at me and my fiance just knows like let her be alone but i do appreciate his company which makes me know oh i actually fucking like it yeah i actually like you what was it about him when you met him that you remember being like this man is different other than him pursuing you well it was the fact that he was kind and that I trusted him. I trusted him with my feelings.

Because, you know, growing up with in between two warring factors, my parents were so obsessed with their own psychodramas that it wasn't a safe place for me to feel nurtured. You know, You mentioned that my father's weekends with my sister and I, he was meant to pick us up that morning, and we'd sit on the porch and wait for him all day.
And when I say all day, I mean sitting on that porch all day, he would never show up waiting for him. And we'd say, Rozzy and I would say, next car is going to be daddy.
Next car is going to be daddy. We do that all day long.
And so I didn't trust my parents with my feelings. You know, I would, you know, I would sort of mother my mother with, you know, joy and bring her up and all that kind of stuff.
So when I met George, I could tell from the moment I met him that he was lovely and kind. And I could trust him with my feelings, that he wouldn't hurt my feelings.
He has never hurt my feelings. Never.
And my mother, when I was, my mother said to me, Rue, you're too goddamn sensitive. I was five years old at the time.
Five. She said, she also said, Rue, you reminisce too much.
And I was five. I have five years of reminiscing.
But, you know, it was insight into her because years later, as an adult, I learned that she was actually trying to warn me to not do what she did.

And it was very telling about her that she was too sensitive and that she reminisced too much. Interesting.
So, and that didn't occur to me. I only got that probably 10 years ago where I went, oh, that's what that was.
So anywayorge was uh so open and not uh secretive he was just open in fact i tell this story at one point when we first started dating he he asked me hey can i floss your teeth fuck no you can't floss my teeth what i never I never heard of it. Why? Why did he want to floss your teeth? Because he wanted to be that intimate with me.
He was, it was, you know, and I never forgot that because it just, that someone would want, what? But now when you look back on and saying that like how does that make you

feel when you reflect on him saying that to you it makes me feel like he wanted to be he wanted not only be inside me but he wanted to be a part of me that that that level of intimacy i had never experienced before. And it allowed, it was a signal to the child who lives inside of me that it's okay.

You can relax with him.

You can relax with him.

He's not going anywhere.

In fact, we split up when we got sober together.

We split up.

Still couldn't shake him.

Couldn't. We'd still called three times a day.
And ultimately, we did get back together again. And, you know, eventually got married.
I want to go through that, too, because it's a very breaking up with someone that you then end up with is rare. I feel like it takes a really special bond.
But just going back to what you just said, it's so inspiring to see the trauma you went through and the partners you would choose that were replicating just what you watch with your mother and father. Then finding George, it's interesting to see even the way you just spoke, you got calmer, it got more still, you could be yourself like in what ways once you started to engage in a healthy relationship how long did it take you to actually trust and be yourself because i'm sure there are people listening to like rue i fucking hope to god one day get to where you're at like how long did it actually take once you met him to be like trust don't bring up my old shit like don't put on him what i've done in other relationships like that's a lot of work yeah no and look don't trust me i you know i the the beast still came out you know in our relationship and and my distrust but uh soon enough you know he would put me at ease and uh you know it takes time and you know even the time that we were apart uh we both realized that there's no one I like more and the chances of me meeting someone who I felt that comfortable with and that much myself with uh it's very rare very rare you're young, we think, oh, I've got all the choices in the world.
And when you look back, I'm 63, you look back and you go, there were very few, few situations where people had all their shit together. Not shit together, you know, bank accounts and all that kind of stuff I'm not talking about that but knew enough about themselves to not hurt you and and project their own hurt out at you you know which is I think what uh my parents my parents did and you know and I can forgive them now there's a book called um toxic parents that really helped me a lot by Dr.
Susan Forward that really walked me through the steps of overcoming the trauma of my parents. I think it's also incredible because sometimes we run away from things that make us feel good depending on again our trauma of like this can't be this good and I think with George it's so clear that like although you were both going through things which I do want to talk about with addiction like you knew at the core how you felt around this human being and that is something that lasts forever how someone makes you feel you never shake that and you did break up can we talk about that just a little bit of like how did you decide because it was mainly you right that did decide like we need to put this on pause well it was it was mutual what happened was uh uh we had this condo in uh florida in miami George was redoing.
And I learned that he had been addicted to crystal meth, which is the devil. So I put him into rehab and then brought him to a 12-step program.
And I went with him to support him in this 12-step program, only to realize this was for me. I need this.
And I realized, too, that I had been living my fame and fortune through George, vicariously through George. So I realized that if I am living through him, and he's in this much trouble, that's how much trouble I'm in.
You were living your fame through George. What do you mean by that? Well, at five, when I had dissociated and separated, became a jib, a camera on a jib, I realized I had not come back into my body so because it was not safe it didn't feel comfortable for me to feel my feelings firsthand i could feel my feelings through him uh you know we you know we'd be flying to dusseldorf on elton john's private jet and he'd be like oh my god this is great this is so i'd be happy because I informed me we're this is great this is great but I could not feel my feelings firsthand right you're like looking for the outside validation of like what is going on here like oh this is great great this is great sure for sure George what like interesting yes and it wasn't until I got sober that I was able to bring my feelings and my camera in through my own eyes.
But when you looked at George and you recognize he was addicted to crystal meth, that is also when you said, well, I also have an addiction problem. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, I'd always used. I'd use, I started using when I was 10 years old.
I started smoking weed when I was 10 years. Listen, Alex, it was a different time.

It was San Diego, California. It's a different thing.
It's not like the way people think of it today. Do you remember when you tried your first hard drug? Yes.
I was probably 13. And back then

there was something called Red Devils. And I took a Red Devil pill.
I don't know where I got it. I don't know.
But what was it like? What is the facts? I don't know if I don't remember if it was an upper or a downer. I really do not remember.
But I do remember it was around that time. But I was I wasn't afraid of I never shot up or anything.
But also, the big thing was that I never had any money. So I was at the mercy of whoever I was around.
And then in my 20s, I shouldn't say this, but I'm going to. In my 20s, this is, I shouldn't say this, but I'm going to.

In my 20s, every, I dropped acid every weekend, throughout my 20s.

Every weekend, like four hits of acid every weekend.

Have you ever dropped acid?

I have never done it.

What does it feel like?

Well, I'll tell you.

Okay.

It's, well, we're going to, listen, you're an adult. We're adult like don't do acid yeah yeah whatever yeah it's fucking incredible it's incredible because it was the it was the it was the um the proof i had that this world is an illusion that everything you think you know about solid objects or what people are is a lie and i i had that i had that suspicion before i dropped acid so when i dropped acid it was like yes this is exactly and the people who freak out and i you know i used to you know drop it and some people would freak out you know that means you were like oh my god those are the people who freak out, and I used to drop it, and some people would freak out.
You know what that means?

You were like, oh my God.

Those are the people who it never occurred to them that this is an illusion. From the day I was born, I thought, this is an illusion.
So the minute you dropped acid, you were like, damn right. Yeah.
Here we go. It lifts the veil of the illusion, the fantasy that we're all, we collectively agree to in our lives.
Did you, like when you got so famous and you're in New York and people know who you are, like were you at all ever paranoid that people were going to be like, RuPaul is like fucked up or there's something, you know what I mean? I do. I was downtown famous in my 20s, but I didn't get world famous until I was 32, 32.
And I had stopped doing chemicals. I just, I was just smoking weed then.
And then in my late 30s, I was doing a little bit of coke, a little bit too much coke uh but really in private with friends but so i would never be i would be stoned i was always stoned uh from you know uh i was a baker i'm curious like you're so famous and how does that make you feel like you know it's um you know it doesn't feel any different from when i was five years old and the kids in the neighborhood said oh you're a sissy they they i was always pointed out i was always singled out and said huh you're something you're something different uh i didn't know the what the connotation i didn't know that was sex, it didn't have a sex, I thought, oh, okay, at, you know, five years old. So, but the, my point is that I always felt singled out that there was something going on with me.
And I had to learn to accept that. So does it feel any different from back then? No, it doesn't.
It feels like I have a purpose that I came here to do and it's part of it. Because I just am curious because knowing that a lot of performers, I think, are introverts that become extroverts on stage when they're performing.
Like I know a lot of musicians that are like, oh, my God, bitch, when I get on fucking stage, it's a complete alter ego. ego like that's not me I go home and I'm like in my pjs and makeup off and not focused on like that persona but do you ever have moments or have you ever had a moment in your career where you've resented the persona you've built no no because I take that shit off it that's that's it's a a part of me but it's not.
It's not who I am. And thankfully, you know, drag is so brilliant because it's like a wink, wink, nudge, nudge at the facade that we were talking about, you know, that being on tripping, you know, breaks through that.
Drag is an extension of that wink, wink, nudge, nudge. And so it's not really to be taken seriously.
It's paint powder. But I never once thought that's who I am.
Right. Yeah.
It's supposed to be fun. You're supposed to enjoy it.
Absolutely. People take shit too fucking seriously.
They take stuff too seriously. And they read into it too much.
You're like, it's not that deep. It's not that deep.
It's not. It's really not, you know? I want to circle back just to conclude that conversation about George.
Like, the book kind of ends like you're not really together. Yeah.
And I thought that was such an interesting stylistic choice of like, why, how did you decide to end it like that? Because it was the real, the death of my old self and this has been the rebirth of my life this this is a whole other book this part you know in this business if you get seven years in this business you've done great fabulous great but for me to have the opportunity to have another bite of the apple uh because i got my shit together amazing so that's a whole other story so you know ending it ending it uh at my getting sober was uh felt like the natural place and i feel like from what I've read and looked up, like you and George are pretty like notoriously private people together with your relationship. Like how did you decide and did you talk to him about that you were going to write about these like pretty intimate details of your lives? He doesn't give a shit.
It's like bitch just go. Just write.
They were you know going on this book tour and the people were saying hey um we've got some seats set aside for george uh do you want to he doesn't want to go to that he doesn't care about that stop i love it he doesn't know who any pop stars are he doesn't he doesn't care he don't care so refreshing though he does not care but that must be nice for your life oh? To come home to someone that's literally like, I don't care. Yeah.
No. He doesn't give a shit about this stuff.
You're like, babe, guess what I did say? He's like, I care what you did, but I don't actually care who was in the room. You're like, Beyonce was there.
He's like, huh? No, he doesn't know who Beyonce is. He knows who she is.
He would care. Let's see.
Who would he care about? He loves Aretha Franklin. Of course, she dead now yes she can't walk in the room but actually he went with me i thank god he was with me in 1995 he went with me to detroit i performed at aretha franklin's birthday party and um we were in there and her assistant came in with the check for me that she had written for my payment.
This is before I went on stage. And the check was written out to Ruth Paul.
Signed Aretha Franklin, Ruth Paul. And of course, I couldn't keep it.
I wanted to keep it. But thank God George was there with me so he could see it.
So that it wasn't, I didn't dream this up. It's's really real they took the check back and wrote it out to RuPaul but um oh my god but so he met her yes so he hasn't been stunned since 1995 it's like fuck George hasn't lived since 1995 he hasn't felt something I know I'm trying to think who he would be starstruck by he wouldn't be starstruck by anyway he you know this sounds weird um like I'm trying to gain him points but he is more starstruck by animals and he knows the name of every flower and he knows the name of every animal like what they what they are he knows the breed of every dog so he uh and and you know he gravitate toward, he's that person.
Why do we give a fuck about celebrities anymore? I want to know dogs,

animals, the flowers, the insects. Let's go, George.
Well, don't get me wrong.

He's got his faults. it's also like no we gotta lock in we only get 13 weekends a summer.
Like, isn't it kind of crazy when you put it like 13 weekends? Okay. So I am telling you, daddy gang, we are not waiting for plans.
We are bringing the plans. Bring a pack of White Claw and let's make some moves, people.
Okay. I don't want to sit around and wait for someone to be like, oh, are you going on? Yeah, I'm going on a boat and I'm bringing my White Claw variety pack with me.
Okay. I want to have a good time this summer.
I'm not going to wait around for plans. I'm making the plans.
You're going to take control of your summer, daddy gang, lock in the plans, rally a crew and don't overthink it. Grab a White Claw variety pack.
everyone's flavor is in there. The pack with peach, passion fruit, watermelon, and lemon is like a little summer flavor roulette each time you grab a fresh White Claw.
Matt and I were drinking White Claws in our backyard the other day and I was like, this is summer. My dogs are relaxing.
My feet are in the pool. I'm drinking a White Claw.
Life is good. So pick up a pack of White Claw from your favorite local spot and grab Life by the Claw with your favorite flavor this summer.
Please drink responsibly. Hard seltzer with flavors.
White Claw Seltzer works, Chicago, Illinois. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Josh Cellars.
Wine always had its rules. Never add ice.
like make sure you serve it in a wine glass. Josh Sellers Sea Swept is a wine that is refreshing the rules, daddy gang.
Throw it in the cooler, pour it into your favorite tumbler and just go ahead. Honestly, add ice if you want to do it.
It is a delicious combination of citrusy Sauvignon Blanc and crisp Pinot Grigio, perfect perfect for sunny days visit www.joshsellers.com slash call her daddy and join the wine club to get 20 off please drink responsibly you mentioned drag and it's just it is so incredible to have a show on its 16th season that's kind of unheard of like there's very few shows in the world that like go that long do you remember the beginning days i do like what does it make you think to like look at this empire that you've built like you just must be so proud i am very proud i'm most most proud of uh the contestants who have come through there who are so lovely and so courageous to allow their stories to be told and to share those stories of courage with people around the world. What do you think is the biggest misconception about drag? Oh, I don't know.
You know, I stopped trying to figure out what people think or try to put any credence on what other people think. are are crazy are weird yeah i remember you said that in the beginning of this interview and i'm like that feels like that's the episode title people are weird well you know when when you free yourself from that when you know my mother said if they ain't paying your bills pay them bitches no mind or you know what other people think of me is none of my business when you free yourself of that it leaves so much room for your own frequency to to resonate and and transmit through you because that that kind of thinking of what other people think of you takes up so much space it's exhausting it's exhausting we don't have time there's no time and you know when i when i hit 30 i realized the biggest lesson i got when i was turned 30 was i don't have to like everyone and everyone doesn't have to like me amen like we're so fuck some people are so pressed being like they don't understand right they don't like who fucking cares do you know you do you

understand you does your family friends or whoever the fuck you give a shit about know you done there you go you're gonna exhaust yourself you're not even gonna know who you are by the end if you're trying to appease every fucking person especially with the internet you got bitches in fucking kansas saying you're a fucking loser who cares yeah yeah yeah and if you had x-ray eyes to see where that bitch in kansas was that bitch is in a basement uh with a big with internet but in a basement nonetheless they've got their mother's basement their mother's basement the mother's wi-fi and they're in keyword warrior like you're a fucking loser shut up bitch in kansas god we're done with you fuck can't take these bitches um okay you write in your book you're born naked and the rest is drag what do you mean by that so you are born naked so that concept allows you to create yeah whatever life you want you are a co-creator with whatever the source is. I mean, some people say God, some people say whatever.
Whatever you choose to be the source, you are a co-creator with that. That's a lot of responsibility.
It is a lot. But it's also, it is exciting if you look at it in the right way.
Like we do have, for the most part, autonomy over ourselves. Yeah.
Sort of. Sort of, yeah.
I don't need to get into the laws going right now fuck yourselves but you know it is exciting to know you can control yourself and i think sometimes we get a little in the clouds and we start to look around us too much where it's like why are you trying to be like that person that person that person why are you trying to people what do you want yeah and i don't think we ask ourselves that enough because i don't think we're taught it like you said it'd be in the middle of this interview you were like my mom told me like stop being emotional ruin stop doing this but it's all again projection from your mother it's like well maybe the most beautiful part of you is that you're emotional sure maybe you should lean into that what do you want and i think we can take from from this especially, just like, live the way that you're emotional. Maybe you should lean into that.
What do you want? And I think we can take from this especially just like live the way that you want to live and block out as much noise as you possibly can. It's hard but when you do it there is some peace and quiet that you can find within yourself.
It is hard and of course all roads lead to are you willing to be in this moment with yourself which is a tall order because the first thing you would recognize if you did that was how much pain you were in. So again, you have to walk through that fire, which is painful, to get to your true self.
Because a lot of us, we sweep the emotions. In my case, I dissociate it with myself.
We sweep a lot of our feelings under the rug. I did that with drugs and alcohol until i had to pay the bill and when you look at the bill you're like what wait who ordered the pellegrino what does the pellegrino stand for in your life ru what does it symbolize you know and you so you have to it you literally have to go through all of the stuff that you put away before you can move forward.
So that's why most people don't accept the challenge of creating the life they were meant to have. Most people, you know, go with plan A or plan B.
And a lot of times I think because plan A or plan B doesn't really fit your needs, you will use drugs and alcohol to numb the pain. That's what we're all, I mean, we're a culture of addicts.
We're all addicted to something. But imagine if we were taught how to process those feelings.
I use drugs and alcohols to process, to deal with feelings I didn't know how to process until eventually I did learn how to process those feelings. Imagine a world, a culture of people who could do that.
When we're able to do that, I think the amount of like peace and unity that will come from all different walks of life and all different backgrounds, we're so fucking far from that, but you're so right. It's like we're not taught to process, so we're angry and we're miserable and we're anxious and we're insecure and we are lost.
And I appreciate you coming on today and just talking through this because I think it's so inspiring for people listening. The way you talk about your memoir being almost like this other part of you that now is put to bed.
And there's now a complete new book, basically, that's being created right now as you're sitting here and the way you're living your life. I think we need to start to look at ourselves that way of like, you can have been many different people in your life.
And it doesn't define you define you it's part of you but I think every new chapter is on you to decide how it's going to be written so I hope this was fun it was fun did it get better no it's it's actually it was a lot of fun and I love what you're saying there because what the truth is it's about the uh the crucifixion and the resurrection. And once you're able to be reborn into your higher self, that's when the party really begins.
And that's why I feel like the party, for me, when I got sober, really started. And I needed to put that first part to bed, And that's what the house of hidden meanings is about.

It's incredible.

Everyone,

please go read it.

And congratulations to you because it is so cool to see.

Like,

I love that you did a memoir where it stops at 1999,

basically.

Like 2000.

Yeah.

And now it's like,

what's next?

Love it.

RuPaul.

Thank you so much for coming and call her daddy.

It truly was a pleasure.

Thank you. Thank you.

call her daddy is brought to you by j Sellers. Wine always had its rules.
Never add ice. Like make sure you serve it in a wine glass.
Josh Sellers Sea Swept is a wine that is refreshing the rules, daddy gang. Throw it in the cooler, pour it into your favorite tumbler and just go ahead.
Honestly, add ice if you want to do it. It is a delicious combination of citrusy Sauvignon Blanc and crisp Pinot Grigio, perfect for sunny days.
Visit www.joshsellers.com slash callherdaddy and join the wine club to get 20% off. Please drink responsibly.
Call Her Daddy is brought to you by LifeLock. Chances are you've been to the doctor recently and you probably handed over your insurance, your ID, and even maybe your social security number.
Your doctor is just one of the many places that has your personal information, Daddy Gang. And if any of them accidentally expose your details, you could be at risk of identity theft.
LifeLock monitors millions of data points a second. If you become a victim, they will fix it guaranteed or your money back.
So save up to 40% your first year at lifelock.com slash daddy. Terms apply.
Stay safe, daddy gang. Summers are for chilling and My Mochi ice cream brings the vibe.
My Mochi is scoops of amazing ice cream flavors like strawberry mango and cookies and cream wrapped in soft sweet dough it's creamy on the

inside chewy on the outside and straight up delicious my mochi ice cream is gluten-free

and only 70 calories a piece so you can treat yourself without missing a beat this summer

chill like a pop star grab a purple box of my mochi ice cream find your flavor taste the fun