Charlize Theron: I Don’t Need a Man

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What is up, Daddy Gang?

It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call Her Daddy, Daddy, Daddy, Daddy.

Charlize Theron, welcome to Call Her Daddy.

Thank you.

I'm so excited to be meeting you.

The same here.

Cheers to, it's happy hour.

Somewhere in the world.

Somewhere in the world, it's happy hour.

We're cheersing.

We've got a little vodka and we're going to have a great conversation today.

You're in your cozies.

Yeah, I apologize if I was supposed to get dressed up.

No, no, no.

I'm usually in my cozies.

And I have to, I have a meeting after this.

I would usually be wearing exactly what you're wearing.

So this is perfect.

You look great.

You look like me today.

And I maybe look like you in another life.

Okay, in doing research for this interview, I realize we have a couple of things in common.

And maybe we'll find out more today.

But one of them being we're notoriously known for saying the word fuck.

Yes.

I am.

That's why I love your show.

Why I love your show for many ways.

I just love you're very authentic.

And I love your use of the word because, you know, if somebody uses it that much, it has to feel like it's coming from a real place.

And yours feels very grounded.

Okay, I haven't heard you say it yet, but I know it's going to come out today.

But I'm like, I've heard that you have you say it all the time.

Yeah.

I remember reading it.

It said, Hollywood Reporter profile said that you said fuck 154 times in three hours in an interview.

They have to fact check.

No, I don't think that's true.

There's no way she's an eye.

Have you ever said it in a really like inappropriate setting where people were like, Charlize, what the fuck are you doing?

Listen, I

have definitely, I am trying to think of how to say this without

getting the right context around it.

I swear in front of my kids because I feel like, you know, I feel like I, like, I am a responsible mom, but I also,

I am who I am.

I'm not ashamed of who I am.

I, I also want to teach my kids that there are things for them to look forward to.

They don't necessarily get to say that right now, but that's really fun because they're going to grow up and get to say what what they want.

And also just because

it's sometimes it's hard to articulate exactly what fuck cannot replace.

Like I just feel,

and maybe that's because my vocabulary is just not very strong and English is a second language, but it just, there's, it's hard to sometimes really get that thing across, you know, and you can just, you can special size it.

You can custom it for your,

whatever that fuck is that you need, you know?

It's fucking amazing.

I do this really fun thing with my kids in the morning when we drive to school.

They DJ, so I can't DJ at all.

So they all take my phone and they'll just like alternate with each other and like play songs.

And then they got a little older, they were like, you know, it used to be like the clean versions.

And then it was like, mom, can we like play the dirty versions?

And I was like, okay, just for this car ride.

So in the mornings, this is now where I think they get a half hour of just getting, they play every inappropriate song so incredibly loud that that I like lose my hearing.

And we're driving for a half hour, and they're screaming every single inappropriate word that they possibly can.

And then I load, and I can tell like all that energy is out.

They're gonna have a great day at school.

And then I put a podcast on, and I probably listen to you.

It's like by 10 a.m., I've had a full life.

It's a full day.

You're listening to like WAP at like 7 a.m.

You're like, 100%.

100%.

That's amazing.

It's great.

It's great.

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Okay, let's go back to

beginning days of your life.

You grew up on a farm in South Africa.

What was that like?

It was

normal.

You know, it's what I knew.

It's all of my friends kind of grew up on these small farms.

They weren't like these like out of Africa kind of farms.

They were called small, small holdings.

We ate off the land and lived off the land.

My mom grew,

she's growing stuff on our farm out in Ojai now.

She's like just a natural farmer, knows everything about fruits and vegetables.

So

we lived a farm life,

but not as isolated as people would imagine a farm life to be.

And growing up, you went to a boarding school, right?

High school, yeah.

If I was to ask your classmates, like, what were you like in high school, what do you think they would say?

Well, that'd be interesting.

I think there was a side of me, you know, my, I grew up, my, my, there was a lot of alcoholism in my family on both sides and a lot of shame

that I think kids in general have

about a parent that might be an alcoholic.

Because my dad was like

very,

he'd show up in states that, you know, was just very inconsistent.

And so I think my friends or people who knew me in school would say that there was a part of me that was very

like closed off and

not necessarily sharing the truth about my who I was in my life.

Like kind of, I think, I think I created somewhat of an alter ego that came from like a happy house and like my family were good, happy people.

And

I think

the other side would probably be that I

I never really like fit in anywhere.

It wasn't that I was unpopular.

It was just that I

almost like weirdly wanted.

There were two girls that I very vividly remember in both my lower school and my high school.

One was called Charlene in lower school and the other one was called Marlise in my high school.

They were both girls that I absolutely just

admired.

Like I just thought the world of them.

And if you asked me today why, I actually couldn't answer that.

Do you you think it was like their aura or their yes i think it was their confidence and that they were authentically

truthfully

being who not only they are but also living the truth of their circumstance at home i think that was the thing that i really admired about them not that they had

i don't think they dealt with this the same issues that i did i don't think that a parent that was dealing with alcoholism but i and i still have this with women who like when they date, they're just like very open and honest.

Like they don't try and hide anything.

They'll say whatever they want.

They're not walking on eggshells.

And I think that's the part that

kids in my school probably remember the most, but it's, I think now looking back at it, I understand why I was that way better.

But don't you think when you look back to like

why you admired those girls so much, what you're saying also is like being that young and like masking in situations is exhausting.

Like you wish you could just be out in the open, but family is family where you still, it is a reflection on you, even though you're doing nothing wrong that your family is dealing with this.

But you still feel this almost like pride that you have to try to uphold something because it's like currency in high school.

Like, what is this person like and what is their family from?

And so you try to create this narrative, but that's exhausting.

And then you walk in the door at home and you're like, oh, this is fucking miserable.

It's exhausting.

It's very exhausting.

And

it's crazy how we carry all of that weight.

Like somehow it's us.

Like somehow their actions are reflective of us.

And it's a crazy thing that I continued in other relationships in my life.

And I just, I think I admire women who are just like, that's,

that's that.

Like, that's not me.

But that was exhausting for sure.

Yeah.

And it affected my life in a way that I think it took me a long time to be able to figure out.

So when you ask me, like, how do, how do my, my friends or people who went to school with think of me?

I think they think of me in a way that was not really authentic me.

It was, it was, it was a put forth version of me.

In dealing with that in high school, then I know like we don't need to get into all the details today, but you experienced such trauma at such a young age.

How do you think experiencing that ended up impacting you in your later life?

not just in the like, oh, she's not as authentic, but then once the trauma really hit, like, how did that impact you in the next couple decades of your life?

I think it was just, I was, I, I, the first part of it was full denial because my mom didn't really have the tools to deal

with that tragedy, but it was also just years and years of

this consistent kind of like walking into a house or waking up in the morning and not knowing what I was walking into.

It's like what a lot of people say about living with an alcoholic, right?

You're kind of living at their whim, like whatever they're feeling that day or wherever they are, that's what is going to be the vibe and the energy of the house.

And that inconsistency, I think, was what affected me way more than just that one night.

And I think what happened was that there was such a focus placed on that one night when that tragedy happened.

And it was very, very unfortunate.

And I wish I could say it was only a one-time occasion.

This is something that happens in homes across the world

more often than we want to admit.

But, you know, I think

I think it took me like well into my late 30s to really be able to look at that and actually like shake off the weight that I felt like I carried for my father, for my mother.

You know, I felt like even when I got famous, like I couldn't quite honestly speak about it because I didn't want to hurt her feelings.

I felt like people were involved that didn't ask to be in the spotlight.

But then I also got older and I was like, but this is also my truth.

Like this is where I come from.

And I don't want to have shame about it anymore.

You know, my dad was an alcoholic.

He wasn't healthy.

And my mom stepped up and protected me.

And if that happened to me with my children today, I can tell you right now, I would do the same thing.

It doesn't make it less unfortunate, but you know, I, but, and again, I can't protect people all the way through.

Like, I have to also live my authentic self.

So now it's not, it's, it's, it was a one-night event in my life.

I am still dealing with

the everyday consistency of a lot of damage that I think I experienced as a young person

just in my every single day life.

I think that is so

relatable in the sense that like, if there is something catastrophic that happens that shakes a family or a relationship, that event feels very

like palpable.

And you just, people think of that event.

But when you're living it, you're like, oh, it's kind of actually like not even where my head goes to when I actually think of all the trauma because that was an instant the rest of my life, my entire childhood was this thing of living with this alcoholic and learning how to placate or hide or defend and shield and then go to school and pretend like like this isn't ruining my entire life and smiling and pretending I'm this like cute girl that is fine.

Everything's fine.

I know that you've talked about it, but you said later on in your life, you then

got into therapy because you realized like, oh, this is really still affecting me.

Was there something that made you realize like, holy fucking shit, I've got to, I've got to get control of this?

So strangely, I went into therapy because of a relationship, a long-term relationship that I was in in, and it was falling apart.

And I,

I think I touched lightly on I was in relationships, in a sense, doing the same thing that I did at home, which is common, right?

Walking on eggshells, trying to protect ego, protect

embarrassment for a partner, you know, because of their behavior and feeling like somehow that reflects bad on me.

Like all of these things I was kind of repeating in my relationships.

And I had a

narcissistic boyfriend that said, you know, you're the problem.

And

not that I believed it, but I was, I felt like I had invested a lot of time into this relationship.

And I was like, well, maybe, you know, let me put my ego aside.

Maybe I am.

Maybe I should go.

And there was always this kind of thing thrown in my face, like, because everybody knew about my life.

Like, oh, you must be this damaged woman, right?

So I went actually to try and save this relationship.

And what ended up happening was that I ended up saving myself.

Yeah.

So maybe in a weird way, I do owe this guy

some gratitude.

Even though you were the narcissist.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Well, two things came out of it.

The therapist was like, you should leave him.

Yeah.

And also, by the way, you're not the problem.

Like other people have been the problem in your life and you need to start admitting that.

I have gotten into therapy and it's changed my life too.

And so I'm always such an advocate for it, but I know that everyone has to go at their own pace.

So it's interesting to hear you be like, I actually went in for something that for sure was at the forefront of your life and it was like an annoyance and painful.

And you were like, I need to fix this.

But really, it's like, oh my God, girl, we have so, so many bigger problems than this like douchebag that kicked to the curb and now let's focus on you.

Yeah.

Interesting.

So once you got into therapy though, and you realized you needed to start working through a lot of this, did you

struggle a lot with coming to terms with bringing back up trauma?

Because I think a lot of people are like terrified to

engage with it because for a long time, if you just leave it in the corner, you think like, I don't need to bring all that back up.

I don't want to relive those days and memories.

Was it hard for you?

Yeah, because

I became an expert.

I practiced avoidance, right?

My entire life.

And

also,

I was the product of an environment where therapy didn't exist.

In South Africa,

I didn't know one person who wasn't therapist.

I don't even think we had therapists.

Now, I might be totally wrong, and some South African person feels like, first of all, okay, in my community,

I never heard the word therapist.

We also didn't have AA.

Nobody was an alcoholic.

You never use the word alcoholic.

Like,

this was just, I think, I grew up in a culture where men were men and a real man drinks.

And

it was a very toxic culture.

But therapy was just never something.

And, you know, again, like I said, my mom didn't have the right tools.

My mom

and my mom does not understand the concept around therapy.

And I don't, listen,

she shouldn't.

She didn't have it in her life.

She.

She doesn't know what that is.

And

so when it happened,

her kind of words words of wisdom, like she sent me to school the next day.

Like that's, that, that tells you everything.

My mom's like a survivor.

My mom is like, you wake up the next day and you get up and you continue and nobody brings you down and you just, and that's what she did to me and I was 15 years old.

So

coming to therapy was

not because I was avoiding it.

It was just so foreign to me.

And even

I have a, I'm of a generation where I didn't, I didn't even know a lot of friends that were in therapy.

I think I knew like one friend that was in there.

And it was this friend that I reached out to and said,

could I meet with your therapist?

Like, I didn't even know how to get a therapist.

So it was all very foreign to me.

So yeah, putting aside the behavior that I had learned for years, it was also just like, it wasn't in my,

you know, in my, it wasn't, I wasn't surrounded by it in a way where it felt very natural or normal or I had easy access to it.

As you've evolved and continued to peel layers back of like how your childhood impacted you as an adult, I think I've even dealt with this with friends where it's like, as you become more therapized,

you look at your relationship obviously with your parents differently.

And it sounds like you have such a beautiful relationship with your mother, but like, how have you navigated being someone in therapy and dealing with that trauma?

Whereas you have then then someone in your family that's not?

Because I feel like there's probably a lot of people listening that are like, wait, so how do you handle those moments?

We're like, no, mom, remember?

And she's like, let's go out to the, let's go out to the garden, honey.

Like, I don't want to talk about that.

In my 30s, it was very, it became contentious.

It became

because I think I was finding my, my voice.

And I also felt, I still, I feel very protective of my mom because I think that, you know,

without context and people really knowing who she is, and you can ask anybody who knows her,

she is, trust me, I cannot tell you, I can't go on a hike, I can't walk through a store without somebody coming up to be like, oh my God, I love your mom.

She's one of those people that just, she has a superpower and her superpower is incredibly infectious, but it's also very, very damaged.

You know, she, but

what therapy taught me was that she is who she is.

And I'm not here to change her.

And if she doesn't want to change herself, that's okay.

And for our relationship, there's enough compromise there that it works, that it doesn't feel like I am compromising too much or she's compromising too much.

And we know how to kind of like live.

in be copacetic with each other and live in a very loving way with each other without me going like, I cannot, like, you are so unhealthy.

You have like, I'm beyond that now.

Right.

And she thinks the same thing about me.

Like she's like, okay, whatever, like you with your therapy.

And that's what I love about her.

She's authentic.

She's very, very authentic.

But yeah, it's interesting.

Not to like, I don't want to put you on the spot, but that's what I loved about hearing about your story.

Yeah.

It's just so rare to talk to somebody in this kind of environment.

I've never had that where your story really moved me.

And I was actually excited to sit down with you.

Thank you.

Because sometimes I feel like, you know, you feel so kind of alone in sharing a story like that.

Yours is obviously different, but to have trauma at that young age and what you experienced was really painful to listen to and to hear your family talk about.

It is.

It's like.

Such a strange thing when you get to connect with human beings because you're right.

Our stories are so different.

And yet

so similar.

And there's so much pain and there's so much hiding who you really are.

And I agree.

Like when you were talking about the women or the girls in high school that you were like, I just was, you know, like attracted to their aura.

I had the same thing with so many women where I was like, I wish I could live free like that.

I wish I could walk into a room and just be me and feel like.

I can just own it.

And I'm even if someone calls me out, I don't care.

I can't get embarrassed.

You can't embarrass me.

And I didn't have that.

So I think a lot of my career has been actually searching to find a way to get to that place because I wanted it.

I feel,

I feel

so much more at peace.

Like even putting out the documentary, I feel another

layer of peace because I think

that medium also is different.

Like podcasting, I do this every Wednesday.

Like it's a thing that my audience is used to, but putting something and a piece of work out in a different format, I think was really a good way to engage.

Therapeutic in a way.

Yeah.

Yes.

Cause like I kind of had hands off.

Yeah.

And a director was like, I'm going to tell your story.

And I was like, please don't ruin my life.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But like, I trust you.

But you almost had to not be in control of it, right?

Like here, you're a little in control of it.

But it was kind of nice.

And so I think that's how I also feel about therapy where it's like, I'm learning.

I'm uncomfortable what I'm learning about myself.

I hate sometimes when I'm like, no, there's no way.

And my my therapist was like, uh-huh, keep going.

Yeah.

We're about to get under it.

No, no, no, no, no.

Really?

So I

relate a lot to that.

I also was thinking about your mom when you were just saying how your relationship dynamic, you are a single mother, and your mom, essentially, after the passing of your father, became this single mother role.

She was a single mother prior.

Prior to that.

Her whole life.

She was a single mother.

How have you kind of found a way to appreciate each other even more and connect on a deeper level, becoming a mother and her watching you be a single mother, also?

Yeah,

that's such a good question.

I feel,

yeah, it feels familiar, right?

But it also feels,

God,

you know, if there was a caution, a cautionary tale, it was definitely their relationship and how I didn't want that.

And I think in many ways, maybe that did,

I think it's not just one thing, right?

It's, it's, it's very layered and complicated but

one of those layers of why i don't think i am in a relationship was just purely because i

still

not

it's a combination of like i don't want what they had and then also being very honest with myself and understanding that i

I did not have the capability of being healthy in a relationship.

And those two things I had to acknowledge when I decided to be a parent.

And I think it's probably one of the healthiest decisions I ever made.

I think people look at it so like in our society as this kind of something must be wrong with her, right?

With women, it's always like, something must be wrong with her.

She can't keep a man.

And

it's never part of the discussion of like, wow, she's really living her truth.

Like she's living in her happiness.

Like this is actually a choice that she made.

i like want to just like look at them and just be like do you know how great it is to live exactly how i want to live to experience motherhood exactly how i wanted to experience it and i know the next thing they say is like well that's not fair on your kids can i tell you something that will be their story to tell i can't tell you i can only tell you that this is the best way that i know how to be a mother to them and maybe they'll grow up and tell their story and i will respect that

i just know that this was the only way that I knew I could do it.

And my fucking God, do I love every single day of it?

I love that I don't have to share them with somebody.

I love that I don't have to run every fucking thing by a guy.

I don't, I love that I don't have to, well, oh my God, Kobe, I like, I fucking love that I don't have to do any of that stuff.

And my children, you know, we joke, listen, I think you can tell, like, this is how I raise my kids, like, right?

We don't hide this shit.

They're like, they're like oh my god mom i can't go to sarah's house because like her father and i was like oh my god aren't you guys so happy we don't have to deal with that like oh my god mom um that's amazing yeah so i this was how i wanted to be i don't even know if i'm answering your question i'm so sorry no no no this helps because it's like

You broke the cycle, essentially.

I broke the cycle.

I am raising, it looks from afar like I'm doing what I know, which is being a single mom because I was raised by pretty much a single mom.

But I think I'm raising my kids as a single mom because of

definitely avoidance of things that I know I don't want.

And also

understanding who I am fully and being honest with who I am and what I can give right now.

And who I am is at the time that I wanted to be a parent was not somebody who should be having kids with another person.

I think that is the most mature self-aware thing that anyone could ever fucking do.

With kids, you have to be that honest because it's a child's life.

You have to.

And you, again, sitting here being like, I've lived what a single mom looks like who's not actually single, but happy about it.

Right.

And it's like the autonomy you've given yourself to find your happiness and give your kids a different life and a different meaning to what a single mom is.

Yes.

It's beautiful.

Yeah.

It's, it's, thank you.

Yeah.

Thank you for recognizing that.

I

also love that I don't know what the future is going to hold, right?

That's the other thing.

It's like, this is like this moment and this time in my life now.

And I mean, I'll be honest, I have tried dating and I can tell that no man's moving into our house while my daughters are there.

Like that's, and by the way.

I don't think I can do it.

Like I literally can't imagine a man moving into our house and me sharing my closet or like, I just, I, I don't see that happening.

Right.

But then I imagine like being an empty nester and how that part of my life will be and by then feeling like maybe I will feel like I want to be in a relationship there's this this notion that somebody like me must be missing out on something and that people feel sorry for you somehow that you're missing out on love and you're like we guys i'm i'm telling you i'm good and they're like it's the thing that you don't quite realize until you have kids and i'm not saying that it replaces one love with the other but it is such a tremendous love

that I do not miss love.

You know, I might miss sex.

Fair.

That's fair.

My vibrator is only doing so much.

No, look, the vibrator is good.

And I'm having, listen, I'm having, I'm having.

I'm having the kind of sex I never had in my 20s or in my 30s.

Yes.

And so that part has been really exciting.

But I'm not missing relation, like a relationship.

I'm not missing the partnership that I think people think you miss when you're me.

And it feels like what you're also saying is it's not that you're not open to it.

You're just at a point in your life where you're really content and you're really happy.

And I want to also point out, because I can only imagine now, even you just lightly explaining to me the judgment that comes with a woman in your position.

And I, we know women in Hollywood who are single and people are like, oh, what is actually fucking wrong with her?

Yeah, she must be a real bitch.

How?

What a cunt.

Truly.

Like, you fucking cunt.

How crazy are you?

Yeah.

How crazy are you?

Truly.

Yeah.

But how gorgeous to also hear you saying, like,

everything you're saying makes me more

wanting to put it back on other people who are so triggered of like, how many relationships do we know of these women in these households with these men who have lost their voice, who are not happy?

It's not everyone, but

being alone.

You have that control that a lot of people don't have in these certain relationships that they've lost themselves to.

So I think it's it's commendable that you're like, I know myself enough.

I'm going to stay right here until I want to change it.

And then maybe I'll change it.

But guess what?

It's your decision.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then I watch you with your husband and I'm like, God, that's so incredible.

And why can't we just, as women, experience these, these two,

have these two very different experiences and let that be okay.

Because

completely okay.

Yeah.

Like,

I never thought I was going to be someone that was going to get married.

You work with your husband.

And it works.

And I'm like,

exactly.

And I get why people have opinions, but I'm like, but I'm happy.

Well, that's the other thing.

Like, yeah, exactly.

Everybody will all everyone.

It's like an asshole.

We all have one.

It's like, please.

Get out of here.

Yeah.

At my age, I'm like, I honestly, there's like not, I can't make enough zero fucks.

Like, I'm like, I love that from you, though.

Immediately when you sat down, I was like, I fucking love you.

Like, this energy is what we need.

The girls need this energy.

Good.

Okay, let's go back.

19 years old, your mom buys you a plane ticket to LA and is like, One way you're going to become an actress.

Go.

And you land.

What the fuck was the plan?

Well, I think now you understand a little bit better that she was like, the next morning, she was like, you're going to school.

Right.

So I was in New York.

I was living in somebody's basement.

I was there.

I did not have, I think I overstayed on a tourist visa.

So I was kind of in this no man's land of I wasn't there legally.

I couldn't really dance anymore.

I wasn't happy with my life.

I felt like

my

only other option was to go back to South Africa.

a country that was in tremendous turmoil at the time,

the brink of civil war breaking out.

And I had nothing really to go back to.

Like, you know, when I had to like think about how was I going to survive, I was like, am I really going to like take over my mom's construction company?

Like,

I

was willing to take, and also when you're young, you just, you're fucking insane.

You're so stupid, so naive.

I was like, this sounds like the best idea ever.

Yes, let's get a one-way ticket to this place called Hollywood and I will get on this plane, mother, with this credit card that there's no money in there, I know, but you're trying to make me feel better about.

And I know nobody and I will get in a cab and I will go and find some motel to live in.

Those were better options than getting on a plane and going back to South Africa for me at that time.

So you get there and like, how are you initially making ends meet before you get on?

Modeling.

Yeah.

So a modeling was kind of my waitressing job.

Okay.

Because turns out nobody's really checking your visa.

They every once in a while will get you an O1, but they don't really care.

Or back then.

Yeah.

Sorry, I'm just going to take this out.

Oh.

You got it.

I tore my

cortal, interquartal muscles or whatever.

Coastal, intercoastal muscles.

By doing something.

Yeah, I did something stupid, but anyway.

Get cozy.

So I got here.

I didn't know anybody, but modeling was always kind of an income for me.

When you started making money, what did you spend your first like big paycheck on?

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When you started making money, what did you spend your first like big paycheck on?

I didn't make any money for a while.

I was really like not even like paycheck to paycheck.

I was like two, I was waiting for two paychecks to fill in.

The first job as a model that I ever got that I was,

I remember going to the bank and cashing this check for $75,000.

And I,

I can tell you exactly what I wore that day.

I can tell you exactly how I felt.

I can tell you the, how I walked to my Ford escort.

Like I, it's so vivid in my mind because it was a moment of complete freedom.

Like it's so hard to explain, but I think women or

having financial freedom is something that is so

important.

And when you don't have it and then one day you feel like you have it, it's a feeling that you never forget.

You never forget and you never want to go back.

No.

You're like, but I also like stupidly, I was like, well, I'm done.

I'm set for life.

Like, I was like, I'm balling.

Yeah.

Like, oh, well, I don't have to worry about that again, you know?

But I didn't spend it on anything.

Just do, yeah, I didn't, I didn't, I, I was so scared of having to like go back to South Africa.

You start getting into Hollywood as a young woman.

Like what were your first impressions of Hollywood?

It was confusing, you know, because I didn't have really, I didn't have, I didn't know what it was.

So I was kind of like, you have to understand where I was raised, we had television from

six o'clock.

until nine o'clock.

Like we had three hours of television.

And then we had nothing.

And

my access to Hollywood was so limited.

We had a magazine that would write about celebrities.

That was really the only information that I ever got about celebrities.

I watched movies and thought that it was like a job that your neighbor did.

I didn't know they were celebrities.

I thought that Tom Hanks was just some guy that had this job and he was an actor.

The stat, like that status thing didn't exist for me.

So when I got here, it was crazy.

I was like, oh shit, like people are like celebrities here.

So it was very, it was very strange for me.

But again, I was just so excited.

I was so excited.

I want to ask you about one of your early auditions that you had in the industry where a director asked you to go to his house for an audition late on a Saturday night.

Yeah.

Can you just

explain what happened when you got there?

Yeah.

I didn't know what an audition or what the process really, what that looked like.

An agency that I was working at as a model, I said, listen, I'm interested so naively, didn't know how you went about being an actor.

I said, if you hear of any auditions, I'd like to go.

And they said,

oh, we think there's a casting for this movie.

And you'll have to go on Saturday night.

And they gave me the address.

And it was this director's house.

And I, my, the little voice inside me definitely said, this isn't right.

And, but then the other voice in me says, well, I don't know.

Maybe it is right.

But, you know, that like, that voice that we don't listen to,

that voice knew that voice was like, this isn't right.

And it wasn't right.

And as women, like you

were constantly in positions where we

almost like

we want to be like, no, I'm overreacting.

Like, there's no way I'm going to get there and it's going to be weird.

There's no way.

And even when it is weird, you're talking yourself out of this isn't weird.

Like, no, I'm taking this the wrong way.

That's not what he's mean.

He's not.

And by the way, this guy, he got a little nervous for a while there.

I've never said his name because honestly, I don't want the story to be about him.

You know, honestly, it's not because I'm protecting him or anything, but he got nervous for a little bit.

Why?

Because he heard me tell the story and he knew it was about him.

And he wrote me a pretend letter trying to explain his behavior and how I must have misunderstood it, which is classic, isn't it?

It's so classic.

No, Charlie.

Yeah.

He wrote you a letter.

Yeah, because I think he panicked.

He started panicking.

Of course.

He was like waiting for me.

And I just realized, like, I won't even fucking say your name because you know you're the scumbag.

Like, you know, it's you.

And if anybody ever asked me about him, I would be completely honest.

And he knows that.

And I kind of like that he's got to be on a hot seat.

He doesn't know when it's going to come.

I kind of like that a little more.

I'm so sorry because like I opened up in my documentary about this person in a position of power that abused their power and sexually harassed me and all the things.

And

coming forward about it, I had like like such anxiety.

And it's interesting because it's like, you're in a position of power now.

You were so young in your career.

From what I understand, this was like a huge director.

Huge.

And the power imbalance being there in that room on a late Saturday night, what the fuck are you going to do?

And most people would be like, well, why don't you just get up and leave and yell and go immediately report it?

And it's like, it's so nuanced and complicated.

Like, can you just explain?

Cause I have so many women listening, like a little bit about

in those moments now when you look back, how to not feel such shame and guilt for something that clearly was not your fault?

Yeah, it's, it's so hard to even,

it's like we can only share these experiences and we can talk about them enough so that hopefully it becomes normalized that we hear it enough where women can just go like, okay, I've heard about this time.

Like, and you're, while you're sitting in there, you can hopefully say like, okay, force yourself to do this thing that you, that we maybe,

the, the point that I'm trying to make is that we have to be careful because it's very hard for people to understand why someone with a strong personality, someone who's outspoken, how someone like that can be, find themselves in a position where they won't say something.

And that is the story that it's a classic story, right?

It's very, very complicated.

And even though I want younger generations of women to not do the same thing, I also understand if they do do the same thing because I drove up Laurel Canyon and I was so mad at myself.

I remember like being furious with myself because I couldn't believe how I had let myself down.

Like I was like, what the fuck?

Who the fuck are you?

Like, where the fuck, why the fuck would you allow that?

Like, why?

I still get those feelings,

you know, because it's like you, you know yourself so well.

And it's very,

it's, there's something that really like kind of like breaks my heart to the core when people so,

so, um,

in this very luxurious manner talk about, well, you know what?

Next time you should fucking say something.

Like, don't wait 20 years.

Okay.

This kind of like callous way

of

not

wanting to believe.

Like, that's really what it boils down to.

It's instead of saying, like, I don't believe you, it's like, well, don't be a fucking pussy.

Like, maybe you shouldn't have been a pussy about it.

And we all know what that feels like.

It feels like no matter what they say, it can't hurt more than what you're telling yourself.

Like, I beat myself up over that.

I was like, you can say whatever you want, motherfucker.

Trust me, you can't hurt me more than I hurt myself about what happened that day.

I mean, even just listening to you say it, it's so,

it brings up so much, I think, for every woman probably listening because you're like, you're so right

in those moments.

I remember I was sitting, every time I talk about it, it makes me emotional because I was, when I was sitting on the stage at Tribeca,

because that's where my documentary premiered.

And I did a Q ⁇ A after and I started talking about power and balance and when someone does something to you and you're in this moment and you freeze and or you fawn or whatever it be and I'm looking at the audience and there's like a couple hundred people in this audience and I'm looking at all these women's faces and multiple women have just like that look where I almost wanted to pause and be like, I see you.

Yeah.

How many women in this room?

How many?

And I'm not kidding you, Charlice.

I literally think almost every fucking ham would have gone up.

And it breaks my heart because I'm like, holy shit.

this is happening as we're sitting here.

Someone, some woman is experiencing this feeling.

And I agree with you.

I think for me, I relate a lot to what you're saying of being someone that's so outspoken.

I do think a lot of people are like, there's no way that would happen to you.

There's no way.

And it's like, oh no, the minute you're in that room.

You're not yourself.

You are the smallest version of yourself.

You don't even remember who you are.

And the minute you you walk out the door, you kind of start to remember.

And that's when the shame hits you because you're like, wait, how did I not just, I said it to my husband less than a year ago,

I had an executive say some of the most insane shit to me.

And I'm Alex Cooper.

I'm me.

I'm supposed,

literally froze.

Yeah.

Froze.

Yeah.

So if it's happening to me now, and it happened to me back then when I didn't have a voice, there is no through line of this can't happen to her.

It doesn't matter where the fuck you are on the totem pole of power and success as a woman.

When those men get you in that position or there's a power imbalance, you're fucked.

Or in your case, a woman.

I actually,

I think that story isn't told enough.

Definitely enough.

So I'm really, I'm grateful and

I really respect your choice in wanting to tell that story because I think

Just as I feel like when I meet men who have experienced this kind of power play,

I think that we need to tell these stories so that we can understand that we're not alone.

Like, that's the thing, right?

And it's hard to tell them in a world where people don't want to fucking believe you.

It's really, really hard.

It's not, it doesn't make it easy for us.

And when it starts to sound repetitious and it's like, oh, it's the same story again, it's like, yeah, but guess what?

We're all made of the same fucking D, we're human beings.

And until you are in this fucking environment, don't tell me how you're going to behave because I will not let a motherfucker fuck with me any day of the week.

Like step up.

But when somebody catches you off guard like that,

you know, I don't like want to get emotional about it, but I think it's the fact that it's in an instant, within seconds, somebody is telling you your value and they're telling you you're not really that valuable.

Because guess what?

I was never going to get a part that night.

And I knew that as soon as I left.

Like when I was driving up Laurel Canyon, I knew I wasn't there because I had some value that I was going to bring to this man's movie.

I was there for one thing.

I was only valued for one thing.

That was it.

So when somebody does that to you, you will fucking freeze.

No matter who you are, you will fucking freeze.

And the conversation you also brought up of why did it take you so long?

Right.

I had experienced some people being like, oh, 10 years.

It took you 10 years.

now that you have this platform.

Now, all of a sudden, you want to talk about it.

And it's like, Yeah, 10 years, yes, because, like you just said, when you're driving up Laurel and you're leaving that moment, and how quickly you realize your worth and who you are, and then you're mad at yourself, it starts to almost seep into every single decision and interaction you go forward having in that industry, whether or in your relationships, whatever it seeps into.

So, yes, it took me that long because I had to repair repair what that person broke in me and I had to find a way back.

And it still fucking hurts.

And I still feel uncomfortable and I still cry about it.

I'm not, there's no closure, but there's a little bit of a semblance of healing.

But yeah, it took 10 fucking years.

And sometimes people are going to live the rest of their lives and never get to feel any bit of healing.

So like there is no timeline.

There's also the complication of

I feel when I watch your documentary how much you love playing soccer.

Someone's taking something away from you that you love so much.

So there's that fear on top of it, right?

Like I remember I had this constant kind of worry for myself.

Like I was like, if I don't make this work,

like the alternative is just so fucking dark.

Like I don't want to have this other life.

And so that was like the added thing on top of it was like, they're fucking with something that you really love.

So it makes it even harder.

It makes it more complicated.

That's their power.

Yes.

That's their power over you.

That's the, why didn't you speak up?

But most of these women are sitting there and like, this is my job.

Yeah.

This is what I,

it's so complicated.

So I think the takeaway for any woman listening is also just like, we see you.

There is no answer.

But.

And we're not sitting here saying because of our experiences, you should do this.

You're probably not.

And we understand.

And we need to be a community that can support each other.

We can stand together.

Truly.

And fuck those fuckers.

Fuck those pieces of fucking shit.

Fuck those fuckers.

Fuck the motherfucking ass bitch.

Fuck you.

What have you learned?

That's the beginning of your career.

What have you then learned about your own strength through this crazy time in the industry that you've had?

I feel fortunate that my

on that I think I don't mean this in like a feel sorry for me way, but I feel like I had a hard childhood.

I think it set me up for an industry that's hard.

I'm hoping that it can become less hard.

I'm working.

I'm trying to be part of solving the problem.

But I think it was the thing that helped me.

It kind of set me up in a way where I was so the fish out of water.

Like, you don't understand.

Like, if you look at a map.

That's where I was.

And this is like, it was so,

I had never been on a plane.

Like, I had never left South Africa.

It was so insane to be that kind of

a fish out of water.

But I,

the core of my experience as a child and being a survivor really, really helped me.

It just really helped me to kind of,

and this is not, I'm not, I'm not prescribing this to anybody because I don't want this for my own daughters, but I could suck it up.

In, though, coming from a situation where you weren't really really privy to the information about Hollywood, you had a really rough childhood, then you get here, like, did you ever get to a point where you felt like you could lean in and be proud of your success?

Or have you, or what is your relationship to success?

Like, have you had like an I made it moment and you're like, this is fucking great.

You got that $75,000.

I was like, I'm done.

I have had many moments like that because I think I always, you know, I think what happens when you have, when you experience death at a young age, this is, I'm not speaking for everybody, but for me,

it, um,

it had, it made me hyper aware of time.

And I also think that growing up in South Africa, um,

at the time that I did when AIDS just ravaged my country in a way, it brought it to its knees.

I,

as a woman, you just couldn't help but feel like you were going to die of AIDS.

Like, that's just what it was like.

Like,

I had this constant fear.

Every time I had sex with somebody, I was like, I'm, I have AIDS.

Like, I would go and get tested.

And so, I had this constant feeling of time running out.

So, when good shit came my way, I really like, I felt it.

But I also felt this thing kind of chasing me, like, time's going to run out.

Time's going to run out.

Time's going to run out.

Like, you got to get it all in.

You got to pack it all in.

You got to get it done, which is a horrible way to go through your 20s.

So, I have had this,

I've had great success, and I've had

a ton of great opportunities come my way.

I've always said this, I really believe this.

It is not just about talent.

There are people out there that I know that are way surpass my talent, that will never have the opportunities that I had to showcase them.

These are all things that I'm so aware of.

So, I try to,

it's gotten better now that I'm older, for sure.

Like, i can definitely like

sit in

a moment i don't feel like i have to make a movie every five seconds i feel like i have other things that are more that i kind of gauge my success at it's not just work related

but i also listen after you went on oscar there's a part of you that can go

oh shit like what do i do now like how do i

what do you what do you what am i stepping stepping up to now?

Like, everything is going to be shit after this.

And then after you realize, like, yeah, it's probably going to be shit.

You just go like, well, the fuck that then.

Then I'm just going to fucking make movies that I want to make.

Like, I got an Oscar bitch.

Like, I got nothing else to prove.

So let me just fucking make shit that I want to make.

So fucking.

It's great.

It's very freeing.

Something I think a lot of people obviously respect you for is the way that you have transformed yourself from for so many roles.

Like you've gone bald, you've gained 50 pounds.

Like you've

gone bald sounds like

I was like, that was a shaved head, bitch.

Like we don't have to go that far.

You've gone bald.

You know what I mean?

Well, you were bald.

You shaved your head.

There's a buzz and there's bald.

Like, let's just.

You've gone bald.

You're like, I buzzed my hair.

But you know what I mean?

Like you've really taken things to the extreme.

How, when you were doing those things within your career, did it affect your confidence or did it not?

No, I found it very freeing.

I think that there's, it's much easier for me to kind of lose myself

when I'm working to really kind of be a good actor.

Like I,

if I look in the mirror and I see Charlize, I'm like, ooh,

like this is just all feeling, like now I'm just feeling like I'm.

being like a fake version of myself.

I don't know.

There's something for me, maybe it's because I come from the world of dance.

There is a real appreciation for costume and music and like the this kind of vibe that you have to set to this world that you're creating.

And I don't know how to work without that.

Like I am always in awe of actors who can just, you know, Philip Seymour Hoffman, just be Phillip Seymour Hoffman and be fucking amazing in every movie, but that's not who I am.

Like I really rely on finding a character from the outside in almost sometimes.

Let's talk about your dating life.

Oh, here we go.

Okay.

Hard pivot.

Let's swerve.

Okay.

So when you were bald.

So when you, I literally, let's say, so now that you're not bald anymore.

Okay.

So obviously we spoke about it earlier.

You've been outspoken about never wanting to probably get married.

Yeah.

And once you kind of

accepted that, like how.

Has that impacted your dating life knowing that you're not looking for marriage like with men?

And how has it affected them with you?

Well, I think there's a mislike,

okay, let me just be clear.

Marriage is a long-term commitment.

And I think I want long-term commitment.

I just don't need to get married.

So, so I just want to clarify that.

I

will tell you in all honesty and the work that I've done on myself, I think a lot of that also has to do with the fact that I have a tremendous fear of not being able to get out of something.

And that's, again, me just understanding me.

Right.

And, you know, now, obviously, by California laws, after seven years, you're in a fucking marriage, whether you walk down the aisle and sign the piece of paper.

Like you're, it's 50-50, bitch.

Like, like, let's just be clear.

So I'm like,

my semantics is like crazy, but I want,

if I,

if I were to find a relationship, I would think of it as something that I'm aiming for for long term.

I've never been somebody that really

wants to like jump from one thing to another.

From the time that I was in relationships, I was in one relationship after another relationship after another relationship.

And so when I earlier said I'm having sex now for the first time, like I never had before, it's because I'm not in relationships.

And it's not

because I'm not, I don't want to be in relationships, but I'm seeing things for what they are, right?

I'm not trying to force a circle into a square or whatever the fucking American saying is, the peg and the hole and the, I can never say it right.

No, it's uh, but I,

when I meet somebody, I can, I can see where it's gonna go pretty quickly.

What is relationship you like versus single you?

So this is what we were talking about earlier.

Like, I am ashamed of being a person in a relation or that I used to be.

I should speak now.

I've done a lot of work, but I used to be someone in relationships that would lose herself.

And again, it's that thing, you, like, you're such a fucking power bitch, like, you're a baller.

Like, why?

That couldn't be you.

But it goes back to how I looked at girls who were so, I've never really had a lot of practice in just being confident and like saying, I've, I've always felt like I've had to like protect other people so much

that that's that codependency has just remained in my relationships.

So

I used to be a person that would watch herself,

would also attract narcissists, men who wanted me to kind of treat them that way.

And if I didn't, there was a lot of conflict and I actually don't like conflict.

Yet again, something people are always surprised.

I don't like conflict, but when I feel like I'm being

If I feel like I have to choose between conflict or just placating, then I will placate because I don't want the conflict.

But when you're in those type of relationships that you've lost yourself, how have you pulled yourself out?

Friends.

Yeah.

Great friends.

Like, and now I'm going to cry.

Just great girlfriends.

Wow.

Yeah, because I think sometimes you can't see when you're in it.

At all.

And you need a friend that doesn't hit you over the head because you won't leave until you can see it for yourself.

And a good girlfriend knows that.

And so they support you while you're in the darkness because that's all you have.

Like you need that support.

And I've had, I've put some girlfriends through fucking hell.

So yeah, I love that the show's for women.

Fucking

girlfriends.

You need good girlfriends.

But I think that the biggest also point that I want to highlight that you just said is like, there's a difference between being a really good girlfriend and then when someone's in a really unhealthy relationship, making them feel shame about it and being like, We can't fucking do this again.

We can't, you're an idiot.

What are you doing?

Yeah.

You then pull away.

And if anything, you lean more towards the person you're in the relationship with.

And we've all been there.

If you have one of those great friends, and I've had it with my friend where I was in a horrible situation.

And then when you give them a light opening, because you're really looking for them to pull you out, and they're like, okay,

let's just, let's talk about it.

Yeah.

like, and then they slowly pull you, and then you're out, but it takes you opening even the like a crack in the door.

Yeah, because if you don't want to hear it, it's like the same thing, like we were saying earlier with therapy.

You can't fucking force someone to go to therapy, they're going to sit there with their, yeah, they're like, I'm not going to listen to you.

They have to be ready.

And the only way they're going to come to you, though, as a friend, is if you've been there with them.

And I know it's hard as a friend, but there's always so hard.

That's something

that makes me emotional because it's the patience.

And it must, it's so hard when someone you love so much is just constantly hitting their head on the same wall.

And all you want to do is to remove them from the situation.

And you know that you can't.

And you have to like walk this fine line.

Those, those,

yeah.

I have, I don't know what I did in a past life.

I really do not what I did in a past life, but I

fuck me.

I have been blessed with really, really good people in my life.

That's half the battle.

I'm a lucky bitch.

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When you're having these like fun little new romance moments that you're in your era of not dating, but you're getting to have good sex.

Yeah.

How are we, how are we meeting these men?

Are they men in the industry?

Do you not want a man in the industry?

Oh, I don't.

No, my God, no, no, no.

I have zero interest.

And again, like I say these things, you know,

in a very glib way, but

I don't think that dating somebody in my industry is a smart thing.

I agree.

Yeah, it's not.

It's everything I have to, I, and I'm not saying it's impossible.

I'm not saying that it's that binary.

I just think that in general, it's not a good thing for me.

So how are you meeting these people?

Are you on the apps?

Are you out dating?

I am on the apps, but I don't use the apps.

I am.

I love that.

It's so good.

I have a few friends that are very, very good.

And one of them I know is listening to this right now who, who always is like, okay, you need to come here right now and you need to meet this person and i'm very grateful for her and you know who you are and i i have not taken i have not been brave enough on a lot of her offers but recently i have and i it has paid off tremendously and so

yes my dear friend amanda out there when she says like you need to just we'll be in paris be like you just need to fucking like come and say hi to this guy right now so fun and yeah and then it totally pays off and i'm like yeah i need to do that more often honestly, because the apps are just horrible.

It's hard.

No, it's not hard.

It's a fucking, it's a clown show.

I'm sorry, guys, but please, like, no,

no.

Like, I need, like, honestly, not because I want to date you, but because I want to help you.

No burning man photos.

No photos of you with other women.

Like, I don't care.

I don't want to know that you have girlfriends and I don't want you shooting a fucking selfie in your closet of your hand in a jean pocket.

I don't.

I'm sorry.

I don't want to see you looking at yourself in a mirror that way.

It makes my vagina close.

I just can't.

And don't tell me you're a CEO because you're not.

Like, I'm sorry.

Of what?

Of some business you can't explain to me that I'm none of my friends can understand?

Like, no.

And then, no, you don't live in this apartment if you're, no, you do not have a business.

Stop.

You're a fucking joke.

You know, I get, like, I get wet when you just tell me who you are.

Like, don't be pretentious.

I'm sorry.

Picturing you

on the fucking apps with your girlfriends over like wine one night being like, let's just open this shit up.

Well, by the way, that's how it started.

I was like drunk enough to have a girlfriend be like, let's just fucking do it.

I was like, yeah,

let's do it.

And that's how I ended up on this fucking app.

Listen, I could take myself off the app, but I am like secretly fucking enjoying the joke.

It's great.

It's the joke.

I'm sorry.

I'm not, I'm not trying to be mean.

No, it's okay.

I'm not trying to be mean, but like, I'm trying to like help.

This is like, think of this as like help as I'm a 50-ass year-old woman telling you, don't do it.

Girls don't like it.

They don't fucking like it.

It's so true.

Yeah.

The hand in the gene in the

hand.

I just can't.

I just can't.

I'm sorry.

The CEO is also crazy.

And he works for his dad.

Yeah.

He works for his dad.

Okay, how do we feel about sex on the first date?

Well, so I like, what do you consider, what do you consider a date?

Oh, are you going on dates?

Yeah, but I like, I feel like when you, like, there's certain circumstances where you meet somebody at a party and yeah, you have sex and then that's it.

You know, that's what it is.

You're not thinking you're going to marry this person.

That's fair.

Yeah.

Are you down for a one-night stand?

Yes.

I don't have many of them.

I sound, I'm sitting here sounding like I do.

So when I do,

I'm like, oh, fuck yeah.

I should have done this in my 20s.

I was married from the time that I was like having sex to the time that I had my last relationship.

Then I had children.

Who has fucking time for dates and shaving and waxing and makeup?

And like, I've got two children that have to go to school.

Then I like, I got it, like, this shit's on a time.

Like, we got, do you need me to send you a call time?

I'm obsessed.

And it's this, you got two hours.

Like, what's happening?

Cause, like, I need to know.

We,

do you have any

sex tip for the girls?

Sex tip?

Like, what does that mean?

Like,

what does that mean?

Like, how to have good sex?

How to what?

Have an organ?

Anything.

Anything that like you think of girls could just like,

you're hot.

You're having good sex.

Okay, you're like, I almost choked.

I am the last person to ask.

I'm like sounding very cocky here, but I think it's because I have found this freedom in my 40s where I'm like, oh my God.

So I just want to say this in perspective.

I've probably had three one-night stands in my entire life.

But I did just recently fuck a 26-year-old and it was really fucking amazing.

Fuck yeah.

Yes.

And I've never done that.

And I was like, oh, this is great.

Okay.

Let me just say that 26-year-old is the luckiest fucking man walking on this goddamn planet.

He's walking different today, knowing.

Oh my God.

He for sure is not, but thank you.

No, he is.

He is.

I will just say this.

Like, I wish that this goes back to, I think this is kind of like a thread throughout our conversation.

Women who come across as confident, women who come across as like outspoken, ones that wouldn't speak up for themselves

tend to also be in bed.

people who want to please males.

Like, and I have found this in my experiences with talking to other women about this.

Isn't it strange?

Like, we should be the ones that are like, fuck you.

Like, I'm going to have an orgasm.

And yet I, my whole life was so concerned about.

Okay.

Oh, my God.

So my advice would be this.

Don't fucking do that for two reasons.

You're going to have better orgasms.

And guess what?

Your man's going to like that.

They're going to have such a better time too.

Yes.

It's so true.

It's really hard.

I think back to my 20s and and I, and in college, like I was so thinking I was doing the right thing.

And when you get the feedback of how great it was and then you're walking away feeling great, but then you're also like,

I don't know if I've even had an orgasm in my life before.

Like this is kind of, is this what it's supposed to do and be and what?

And then the minute, and it takes reps.

Like sometimes it just takes you like getting, because no man is like, unless he's the most amazing man in the world, which go find him, but no, not going to happen.

It's all, all all of these men.

It's about them.

And they're not actually being like, I know it takes you longer than my fucking dick just getting off in two seconds.

So it's like, it's a process to you advocating for yourself in the bedroom, being like,

hold on.

And actually then speaking up, but it takes time.

But I agree.

Once you hit that part of your life where it's not just like, oh, I'll just like do it.

And then like he'll get off and like I'm like faking it.

Your life changes.

And practice helps.

You live to practice and then you'll figure it out.

Yeah.

That's good advice, see?

Yeah, yeah.

In the safe way, please.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, please.

Please, for the love of God.

Okay, what is the biggest dating disaster you've ever had?

Oh my gosh.

I had a guy once ask me to make out with his nose, which was really, really probably one of the most bizarre asks ever.

Yes, in a very, like, like he was getting off on it.

That was really gross.

I would say, aside from that, nobody's ever asked me to do something that I was like, whoa, that's really fucking weird.

Like, I guess I'm, I like weird shits.

Like, I'm not, like, thrown by weird shit.

Like, the nose thing was the weirdest thing.

That'll do it.

Yeah, but I'm not, like, thrown easily.

So that's why I think I'm kind of like, I'm like, oh, that sounds cool.

Let's see what happens.

Let's give it a try.

Yeah.

Okay, we're going to play a game.

I'm having the best.

Okay, you are.

You are crying and we are laughing and we are.

I'm not never going to get over the bald comment.

That

jail for me.

Okay.

All right.

I'm going to go through some dating scenarios and I want your opinion.

Are you in or are you out?

Wow.

Okay.

Okay.

He tells you he loves you after one month.

That's usually what I would do.

Charlize.

That's like a Charlize move.

Oh my God.

This is like a constant joke between me and my friends.

This is how unhealthy I am.

Like, I just will tell you I love you in a heartbeat.

Like, I've never understood this conversation.

Like, have you ever had, been in love?

I'm like, motherfucker, I'm in love all the time.

like i like i like while i'm fucking you i'll tell you i love you like and for a long time i was like this is not healthy and then i just went you know this is who i am like honestly like i'm not gonna beat myself up over this anymore so i'm gonna say that's okay i don't know if i want to hear it from a guy though fair so i feel like again it's like the photo the selfie like no like calm down yeah let me be the one that's like i think i love you yeah yeah and make me chase you just yeah yeah

don't be.

Can you believe it?

I'm in love with you.

And you're literally at home being like, oh my God, I can't believe he believes that.

Anyways, but maybe I don't know.

How quickly do you actually think you know if you're in love with someone?

I, in all seriousness, I feel like

I have the ability to go there pretty easily.

For someone who is as like,

have been been so, I think maybe it is because I've been so protective of my life and I have to protect so many things in my life that there is and it's maybe why acting is

feel safe to me.

I have

the ability to kind of like go into that kind of like reckless, vulnerable place.

It's beautiful.

Easily.

Yes.

Have you ever had a guy tell you that he loved you and you were not on the same page?

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

And do you just let them down easy or I am going to be honest with you.

I'm not good at letting people off the hook easily.

Do you say it back?

No, I don't say it back, but I don't know how to, like, I will pretend and then I'll probably ghost.

Like, I'm not, I know it's really terrible, and I have to work on that.

I love it.

But after that, I just don't know, like,

it's, it's part of me is like, I don't have, I don't know, I like, it's a lot of time to get into like the softness of all of this.

And sometimes I just think it's easier to just be like, let's just let's just not.

Yeah.

Let's not.

Cause I don't love you.

Yeah.

And it's easy for me to tell people I love them.

So if I can't say it back, you're really a fucking lose problem.

There's a big problem here.

Like, it's not going to happen.

Holy shit.

Okay.

You caught him going through your phone.

No, I don't like stuff like that.

I really caught someone.

Listen, I, when most of my dating and serious relationships happened, there were no iPhones.

She's like, no iPhone gang over here.

Yeah, we didn't have a problem.

We didn't have, I mean, like, isn't that love?

Yeah, but I don't like stuff like that.

Even with my kids, like, my kids find it really hard that I'm like, I don't want to go through your phone.

I want to be able to trust you.

Yeah.

That's

it.

Have you ever been cheated on?

Yes.

How did you find out?

I found out after, not while I was in the relationship, but I always felt it.

Like, you know, again, it's that little voice.

Yeah.

But it's actually, it wasn't worse for me because.

Part of me was like, that wasn't the reason why I broke up with the person.

And also, I don't think I was with like, I don't think it was constant all the way through.

I think it was like towards the end, or it was like somebody who thought like a blowjob wasn't cheating, like shit like that, you know?

But I classic them not thinking of blowjobs cheating.

Just the classic white stuff of men.

Like, that doesn't count.

Oh, yeah, no, you getting your dick sucked did not count for sure.

No, not at all.

Totally fine.

100%.

Wait, did you ever confront him about it or no?

You just let it go.

No, because most of the time I found out afterwards.

And then by then, I was like, I like couldn't give two fucks.

Okay, he hates cursing and asks you to stop saying fuck.

Impossible.

Absolutely.

If I, if I can't do that in front of my children, do you really think I'm going to do that for you?

Go fuck yourself.

And I don't even love you here.

Like, this is like before I've even told you I love you.

So true.

Yeah.

True.

Okay.

What is something you'll never compromise on in a relationship?

Now?

Mm-hmm.

I think you know, I've talked about it.

I will not lose myself.

I will not make myself smaller and I will not do things that are not authentically.

It doesn't mean that I'm going to be selfish, but I, I will not make myself somebody that I'm not for you, for you to feel better about being in a relationship with me.

I fucking love it.

Oh, thanks.

No, no, no, because it's like you being aware that that's your one thing.

We all have that, right?

Like I had that for so long where it was like, I, you, everyone knows that one thing that you're like, okay, this next time I've got to stand my ground and I can't let myself do X, Y, or Z.

And I think that in its like for me, mine was like, I really loved the games.

Like I was like addicted to like the push and the pull and the push.

And I'm like, drama.

You wanted the drama.

And I'm like, what am I doing?

I'm, I'm exhausted.

Yeah.

And like, I want to feel safe.

So why am I doing this?

And finally, why?

Why?

We're still working on that.

I still don't fully know why.

Do you still do it?

No, okay.

am so happy.

You're aware of it now.

Matt was the first person that literally, it was like a couple, like a month or so in and he was like i don't know what you're doing but i have literally no interest in it so let me know if you want to continue or i'm done and i was literally like oh i'm in love with you but you obviously didn't stop it straight away no it just it took it was a concerted effort for me to recognize like i had become used to a pattern yeah and it became familiar to me and then you jump right into it into the next thing and a lot of it made me feel like if we fight, then when we come back together, we feel closer.

And it was a bad cycle I got into.

And then Matt was the first person that I broke that cycle for.

And it was like, I made such different life decisions with him that I was like, wow, I must really love you that I'm trying this hard to like not.

That's amazing.

Yeah.

So, you know,

we all have our thing.

Yeah.

Okay.

You told him right there you loved him.

That was like, yeah, then I was like, let me take my chance off.

Fuck me.

And I love you all in one night.

Let's go.

Woo.

No games.

He's like, this bitch is crazy.

You're like, you want no games?

No, literally.

Let's go.

Yeah.

But actually, that is.

We're getting married.

tonight.

Let's go to Vegas.

He's like, you're insane.

Okay, let's talk about your new movie, The Old Guard 2.

Yeah.

What does it feel like playing this character again?

Like, is it exciting to get to do something a second time?

Yes.

It's challenging, but also excite.

Yes.

It's exciting because I've never...

I've been wanting to do television for a while or like a limited series because I've never experienced having several hours to kind of build arc and explore a character.

And so like my 20s, it's always felt like pack it in two hours or under two.

And so this was nice because it gave me an opportunity to kind of like go and revisit a character that I played before.

And I'd never done that before.

But it also makes it challenging because then you're like, well, am I,

what do I want to go and explore?

Like,

what are the themes that I, or the, the behaviors that I didn't feel like I fully fleshed out on the first one?

So then it becomes complicated in that sense, but good complicated.

Okay, you're hanging out of a helicopter in the movie.

Yeah.

How do you even train for something like that?

You don't.

There's no training for that.

I wanted to do something.

I'm actually, I don't like risk.

I like challenging myself, but I'm actually not like some rec, like I have kids.

Like I, and even prior to that, I'm not like someone who's like, I don't give a fuck.

Let's just jump off this roof and see what happens in the water.

And I'm not one of those people, but I do like the challenge of being a producer and being able to have some power over

talking about that developmental part of what is the narrative and the action, because

that's where you can start to challenge yourself a little bit.

And if you're making, if you're making these movies, you should be asking those questions.

What is the most insane stunt that you've ever done in your career?

Well, that would probably be one of them.

But, you know, if you hear the story behind it, it's not

as crazy.

It looks insane.

That's why we did it.

But, but it was explained to me by this incredible man, Fred North, who is like the guru of all helicopter stuff and movies.

It's completely, he's like, this is really safe.

No one's ever really done this.

And you can do this completely practical.

And that's really what I was looking for: to do something that we didn't have to go on a stage and fake.

And, you know, that I could have some cred and have a behind the scenes video that looked really fucking badass.

And I could be like, yeah, and that's me right there.

But yeah, so that's probably the craziest things.

But I've done hard.

I mean, I just had elbow

surgery four weeks ago.

I did this movie in Australia.

I just wrapped it like a couple of months ago.

I play like a really professional

rock climber,

like a like a free soloist kind of like rock climber.

And I worked with a mad director from like Iceland who just like was like, you have to climb the mountain.

And I was like, holy fuck, like he's going to actually make me climb this fucking mountain.

He was like, for the next three weeks, we are only shooting this mountain and you are climbing this mountain.

And I fucking climbed that mountain barefoot, like no shoes.

Like I, it was insane.

I look at the footage now, like I go back to the the dailies and I go, what the fuck?

But it's amazing.

It's like you're in it and you just kind of go, like, wow, it feels good to feel this strong that I can do this.

That it picturing you barefoot climbing up and just being like, Yeah, and they were like, they were making these silicone feet for me to protect my feet and stuff.

And I was like, I'm from Africa.

Okay.

I didn't have shoes until I was 13.

Like, I climb trees.

I don't have, and I was a dancer.

I have no fucking feeling in my feet.

Okay.

Put me in.

Yes, I'm gonna be fine, you guys.

She's perfect for this role.

Thank God we got her here.

Holy shit, this is amazing.

At the end, this madman of a director who's fucking brilliant and I love him.

He likes, he never gave me one compliment.

It was like my dad relationship all over again.

I was trying to please this motherfucker every single day.

I'd like be on the top of the mountain.

I'd be like, my elbow, I couldn't feel.

My fucking toe was broken.

My ribs were, and he'd be like walking away.

And I'd be like, what did he think?

He's like, oh, he went home.

And at the end of the film, he like pulled me and he was like, you were fucking amazing.

And I was like, all right.

All right.

I, I deserve that.

Yeah.

I got it.

I got it.

Yeah.

I got the approval.

Thank God.

We, did your daughters go to the premiere last night?

They did.

They, my, my youngest likes to kind of like just.

ride along with me.

I wasn't, the movie isn't right for her.

She's, she's too young.

There's too much violence in it.

But

she walked with me because she knew I was going to go home home afterwards so she just walked she didn't just waited for me and i said a little thank you in the in the theater and then we went home and and i was like she was like why don't we walk i said no no no i'm so tired like we're gonna go home we're gonna have a girls night and we're gonna have ice cream and we got like the ice cream out of the freezer and i had like a half a pound of ice cream and then i fell asleep like like an old man literally like she was like really this is our date like this is your premiere night yeah i wish that was the headline like you're in this gorgeous outfit and then you get home little does everyone know, you're like, I'm on the couch with my ice cream.

Like, I was shoving a Haagen dust.

And I was like, I should walk this down to the freezer because it's going to melt.

And I was like, fuck that.

I'm rich.

It's fine.

It's a half a pound of fucking Haagen dust.

Like, what am I worried about?

It's so good.

Do your daughters understand like who you are and what you do fully?

I honestly, I couldn't tell you.

You know, I feel like maybe

I think that they're also,

they've been around it.

Most of the movies that I've made since they've been around have been during the summer because I don't want to leave them.

So they've been on every set that I've worked on from the time that they've been in my life.

So they know that as mom's job.

They obviously don't, you know, they don't watch the kind of movies that I make.

So in their eyes, I'm like some dinosaur, right?

And so like every once in a while when I work with somebody, they're like, wait, you know her?

Like, oh, Renee Rapp's coming on Saturday or like what, like every once in a while, I'm like, yeah, motherfuckers.

Like, I'm cool.

Yeah.

So I last, I was just driving here and my oldest daughter, who's a real bitch, like she does not make it easy on me one bit.

Like she does not suffer fools easily.

She has never given me a compliment in my fucking life.

I was driving here.

She was at a sleepover and I called her to tell her that, you know, her sister was coming home and she goes oh I really like what you wore last night I almost fell off my chair I the phone fell out of my I was like

oh my god oh my god like be cool be cool be cool

thanks yeah so they they play with my emotions I think I think really cute yeah it sounds like you are such an incredible mother you're a great daughter and you've had such an incredible career and you will continue to have such an incredible career and like this is is why I love my job is getting to meet you.

I had no idea what to expect.

You know what I mean?

Like, I didn't know.

Like, I didn't like.

I'm like, this fucking woman that can't keep a man.

Like, this crazy bitch.

Let's see how

now I understand.

But I didn't know, you know?

And I think not that it was bad or good.

I was like, oh, maybe that is.

This is interesting.

And in getting to speak with you, it's so inspiring hearing what you've done with your career, what you've done with your family.

I think it's such a testament to women.

And it's really, I hope, a message to women of like, you really can create your own path.

Your past doesn't define you, but be aware of your childhood and any trauma you've had.

And you've done such an incredible job, like making your own version of what you want your life to be, which is so inspiring for women here.

Yeah.

And I'm still trying.

We're still figuring it out.

Of course.

Yeah, but we should definitely try for sure.

Life is too short.

As you enter this next gorgeous decade of your life,

what are you the most excited for?

I,

okay.

So everyone's like talking about the celebration.

You're the first person that's ever asked me, like, what is this next chapter in my life, right?

I think outside of what I touched upon, which is that I do think about like, because it's very real.

My oldest is about to be 14.

Like I will be an empty nester soon.

I think about that a lot because I love my fucking kids so much that they can never know because I can't imagine my life without them.

And the idea of them not being in my fucking house like scares me enough to be like, who is the sad man that I am going to fucking catch in six years?

And be like, you can have my whole closet.

Just don't let me be alone in this house.

So real.

Aside from thinking about that, I don't know because work feels really satisfying.

I really feel so blessed and so lucky that I get to do something every single day that I love that doesn't, it doesn't feel like work.

And I'm glad that I get to show my kids what that looks like, to find something that you love, that it does,

if you can have a life where you don't feel like you're working, but you are working hard, that's a very rewarding life.

And not all of us get to have that.

So if I can continue that

and

make sure that my kids are okay, like that's going to be okay for me.

I'm going to be okay.

This is good to know.

So whenever we see you pop up with a man, we're like, oh, the kids moved out.

It's literally our

shit.

Oh shit.

She's miserable because the kids are gone.

This is just the fucker that happened to be at the coffee shop earlier that day that she's like, you're moving in with me, motherfucker.

And he's like, shit, I got to be with Charlie.

He's staring.

My secret's out.

I just fucked myself.

Yeah.

Well, there goes my vaginas, Joy.

Like, that's not happening anymore.

Thank you, Alex.

Really?

Great.

No.

I will tell this man I love him before I know his name.

I will hook him so fast.

You'll hook him up.

Good closet, nice life.

We're doing it right.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Thank you so much for coming on.

This was truly a pleasure.

You're such a good hang.

And it felt like I don't, I forgot there were cameras.

Like, it just felt like we were having really nice girl talking.

I was looking forward to this because it's nice to know you.

Like, I feel not in a weird way.

I'm not going to tell you I love you.

Come on.

Come on.

Come on.

It's nice to know a little bit about you.

And I'm a huge fan, by the way.

Well, I'm a huge fan too.

So look at us.

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