Catherine Paiz: My Husband Cheated with 20 Women

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Daddy gang, welcome back to another episode of Call Her Daddy.

Speaker 1 Today I am sitting down with catherine pais if you are a fan of the ace family then you already know exactly what we're about to get into but for those of you who may not be as familiar with today's guest I'm going to catch you up.

Speaker 1 Okay. Catherine and her ex-husband, Austin McBroom, started the Ace family YouTube channel in 2016.
They were essentially the first family vloggers to ever do it.

Speaker 1 And people were so obsessed with them. To this day, they still have 18 million subscribers.
Okay.

Speaker 1 So for years,

Speaker 1 everyone watched Catherine and Austin's relationship play out online. We watched them get engaged, have kids, move into new homes, and they documented every aspect of their lives on YouTube.

Speaker 1 Now, throughout their relationship, there was a lot of controversy. There was financial turmoil, and there were tons and tons of cheating allegations.

Speaker 1 But to the public, they always put up a united front until they suddenly stopped posting and revealed that they were getting a divorce. For the past about two years, they have been

Speaker 1 basically not really addressing anything. And there are so many unanswered questions.
How often was Austin actually cheating? Was Catherine aware the entire time?

Speaker 1 What was going on with their finances? And what is the truth behind the drug allegations?

Speaker 1 So, daddy Gang, I am excited to give Catherine the opportunity to speak on all of it today in long form for the first time. Let's get into it.

Speaker 1 What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call Her Daddy, Daddy, Daddy, Daddy.

Speaker 1 Catherine Pais, welcome to Call Her Daddy.

Speaker 2 Thank you.

Speaker 1 Okay, we've got a lot to talk about, obviously. You and your ex-husband, Austin McBroom, started the Ace family, which quickly became quite literally the biggest family YouTube channel ever to exist.

Speaker 1 And then suddenly you guys went dark. And I think everyone has a lot of questions, which we're going to get into.
But first, I just want to know, how are you doing?

Speaker 2 I'm doing good. I feel like

Speaker 2 I'm in a new place in my life. And I'm just so excited just to to like be free with myself and just be authentic.

Speaker 2 Not that I wasn't authentic before. I just feel like I'm at just a new stage in my life.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 You and Austin's last video together was almost two years ago. I know.

Speaker 2 I didn't even know that.

Speaker 1 Almost two years ago. Okay.
That's crazy. Which is crazy because I feel like for so long people watched you every single day.
Like you were on our screens for so long.

Speaker 1 So to go for two years, it's been a long time. Why are you ready to talk about all this now?

Speaker 2 I think for me, it's like, I was, I felt silenced for so long. And it wasn't like someone was silencing me.
I was silencing myself.

Speaker 2 And I think that for all those years of just not being able to just speak freely and just like really sit with myself,

Speaker 2 it was really hard, Alex. It was really hard.

Speaker 2 And I think that now I'm just so healed from all of my experiences, not just my relationship, all of the traumas and all the experiences that I faced early on in my life.

Speaker 2 I've just healed so much through all of them. Truly, like actually, truly.
And I just feel so

Speaker 1 alive.

Speaker 2 I feel like I can really just be myself and it's okay. You know, it's, it's, it's okay to be me and sit with myself.
And I wrote a book. Yes, you did.
I wrote a book about,

Speaker 2 you know, some of the experiences that I had early in my life,

Speaker 2 into my, you know, into my adulthood. And I think through my healing and through writing of this book, I've really just like came back to myself.

Speaker 1 That's really beautiful because I think so many people always say like, why now to people? And I actually was interested to know like, why now? And I can feel your energy.

Speaker 1 And like, I think a lot of people who have been your fan for so long have wanted you to get to this point in your life.

Speaker 1 But I do know a lot of it is a little little messy because I just obviously saw some chapters got released of your memoir. And then you have your ex-husband, Austin, coming forward.

Speaker 1 And he's already commentating on this is a lie. This isn't truthful.
This is exaggerated.

Speaker 1 How did you feel when you saw him kind of publicly coming out and trying to put down essentially this book?

Speaker 2 Yeah. I feel like that's already an indicator of why I never expressed myself, you know, through all those allegations of cheating and fidelity and all those things.

Speaker 2 It's like I was so afraid to speak up. I was so afraid to say, I'm an idiot.
Like, I just didn't see it, you know, or I was so afraid to say,

Speaker 2 you know, I'm trying to hold the very little piece that we have in our family. I'm trying to keep that together.
I'm trying to shelter the very little piece that we have, you know? And

Speaker 2 for me, it was like,

Speaker 2 you know, I'm just, I'm embarrassed. I don't know what's true or not.
There are so many things that aren't true.

Speaker 2 It's really hard to like differentiate what is true, what isn't, um, until I really found out.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 We're going to go all the way back because I feel like we know you as the ACE family. We know you as Catherine, a part of the Ace family.

Speaker 1 But I think it's important, and you talk about this in your book.

Speaker 2 I want to just lightly talk about your life before all of this describe like what was your experience growing up in your family dynamic yeah so uh my mom was born in nicaragua my dad is panamanian they met in panama uh they were teenagers when they met and um you know they had a lot of hardship um they had a very toxic relationship just like any young couple that is new to a country, new language, new everything.

Speaker 2 They didn't have family. They didn't have friends.
And so the first half of my childhood, my dad was a single dad.

Speaker 2 My mom took herself out of that toxic relationship and moved to Florida. And so,

Speaker 2 you know, I knew she did that for the best of, for the best of the family. And

Speaker 2 it's interesting because I'm like, I was such a, I had such an awareness even as a child that I like knew like she's doing the right thing. You know what I mean? Like I knew that as a child.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, I know my mom is doing this for us, us you know for the bigger picture um my parents didn't have much money you know really nothing um

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 I had this really weird relationship with money like I remember thinking like you know my mom would say things like we don't have the money for that or we can't do that or you know and I remember looking at her and thinking I'm gonna make a lot of money one day so that I can do all the things that I want to do and I can support you and I can support my family.

Speaker 2 And it was like this drive that I had inside of me.

Speaker 1 So many adults, you get to that place where you're like, what was lacking in your childhood that then you were craving?

Speaker 1 Because whether you had friends that had it or you were told you couldn't have it, then it's almost like that goal in your head, which then we'll get to because then you eventually got all of that.

Speaker 1 And sometimes it doesn't mean that that is the thing that brings you happiness. But when you're young and you have this vision,

Speaker 1 it's like you're going to go for it no matter what.

Speaker 1 I'm interested though, hearing you you talk about your parents having a toxic relationship. Like, how did their

Speaker 1 marriage impact you at a young age of like how you viewed love?

Speaker 2 Yeah, hugely. Oh my God, that's such a good question.
You're so good at that. Thank you, Lustoff.

Speaker 2 Okay, so I feel like when my marriage was going downhill, we didn't have good. communication.
That's one thing I, you know, I take full accountability is I had the worst communication.

Speaker 2 And I'm still working on it today. I think I've gotten a lot better.
But

Speaker 2 when I look at my parents, I thought, I don't want to be another

Speaker 2 couple that doesn't make it. You know, I want to, I want to be, I want to have that traditional love.
You say your I do's and you're in there for, you know, till death to us part.

Speaker 2 That was like kind of my, the way that I saw it, you know?

Speaker 2 Also having children, you know, you want your children to grow up with both their parents. And that was my dream.
It's like, I want to be able to have that family.

Speaker 2 And when we had it, you know what I mean? And I thought, oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 Like, I remember one morning, I remember thinking, like,

Speaker 2 did I make it? Like, looking around, I remember, did I make it? And I was like, well, why do I feel so empty?

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Speaker 1 Let's talk about Austin.

Speaker 1 Can you tell me how you guys met? Like, how did that all go down?

Speaker 2 Yeah. I moved to Los Angeles.
I had this fuel to move to Los Angeles. I was super excited and I bought a one-way ticket.

Speaker 2 My friend invited me to an all-white attire party.

Speaker 2 And I walked in and I saw Austin from across the room. Austin McBroom from across the room.
And I looked at him and I thought, I don't know why, but I feel like I know him. So interesting.

Speaker 2 And she introduced us and we shook hands and that was it. And then I took Uber home and I didn't talk to him.
So about a month later, he had messaged me on, I think like Twitter or something.

Speaker 2 He was like, hey, I'd like to send you something. And I didn't respond.
So a month went by.

Speaker 2 And then

Speaker 2 he messaged me again. And he was like, hey, I'd like to take you to dinner.

Speaker 2 And I almost didn't go. I was like, I don't know why, but something's telling me to go.

Speaker 2 But I'm just like, I don't know. I don't know.
And so

Speaker 2 I'll never forget that morning. He was like, so, oh, he goes, do you like sushi?

Speaker 2 And I said, no.

Speaker 2 He's like, okay, well, me neither. But I got us a restaurant, a reservation at Nobu Malibu.
And I said, okay, that's nice. Like in my head, I'd never been there before.
So I'll go.

Speaker 2 So we go and we're sitting across from each other. You know, we're by the ocean and we're talking.
He was asking me a lot of questions about me. I thought that was really nice.

Speaker 2 You know, he's a young college student. It was like, he was going into senior year of college, playing D1 basketball.
And he's talking. And all of a sudden, like, I just don't hear anything.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, oh my gosh,

Speaker 2 that is a person that I'm going to have children with. And that is a person that I'm going to marry.
And I knew it in that moment. Like nothing could tell me otherwise.

Speaker 1 What was it about him?

Speaker 2 It was just a feeling. It was just this feeling.
It's like this inner knowing. And

Speaker 2 I thought, I just know it's him.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 You write about in the book that the first time you have your first kiss is the same day that you both also say, I love you.

Speaker 1 Were you nervous at how fast it was moving?

Speaker 2 No. No.

Speaker 1 Why?

Speaker 2 Because it was just meant to be. I saw this thing recently.
I don't, I don't know who said this. I'll find out and let everyone know.

Speaker 2 But she said, when you meet the one or when you meet someone that you're meant to be with, you skip the dating phase.

Speaker 2 So it's like we just went from like meeting each other to being like, we're married kind of thing. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Who said I love you first?

Speaker 2 He said it first.

Speaker 1 Did you say it back immediately?

Speaker 2 Immediately.

Speaker 1 And so it didn't freak you out at all.

Speaker 2 You didn't feel like it was like love bombing at all you were just like this is this is it this is it if you had to pinpoint it back then what do you think was different about austin compared to all the other guys that you had dated well one he doesn't care what anybody thinks and i think i find that so attractive and I feel like that's like my inner self is like, I don't give a shit what anyone thinks, but he was like that person for us in our dynamic, you know, taught me a lot.

Speaker 2 I also think, you know, he's very,

Speaker 2 he's just very motivated. He's a very motivated person.

Speaker 2 And I just, I was just so attracted to the fact that he was so free with himself. And I never met anyone like that.
Actually, the only person that I know close to him is my brother.

Speaker 2 And I always said, oh my God, you and my brother need to meet because you guys are so much alike.

Speaker 1 How soon into your relationship did you get pregnant?

Speaker 2 Like two months. It was so quick.
Oh, wow.

Speaker 1 It was so quick. What was your reaction? What was Austin's reaction?

Speaker 2 So it's interesting because the day before we found out, we were at a restaurant and his friend just had a baby. So he was showing me the newborn photos.
And I was looking down.

Speaker 2 I was like, oh my gosh, like, would you, would you want to start a family one day? He's like, yeah, I like, I would love to have kids one day.

Speaker 2 He's like, you know, maybe in the future, you know, and he goes, like, we'll start a family one day. And I was like, I, like, I know, like, I feel it.
You know, I feel, I feel a family for us.

Speaker 2 Just, I just knew it.

Speaker 2 But I didn't know I was pregnant already.

Speaker 1 How did you tell him?

Speaker 2 He was right there in the room.

Speaker 2 He was in the room. He was sitting on his belly, you know, scrolling on his phone.
And I thought, you know, I feel nauseous. You know, I feel kind of sick.

Speaker 2 And he thought, oh, maybe we should take a pregnancy test. And I'm thinking, like,

Speaker 2 nothing's going to happen. And I took the test and immediately I stood up.
I didn't even think about it. I just stood up.
Hey, and I threw the stick at him by like close to him on the bed.

Speaker 2 And he's looking at it. He's like, I'm like, yeah, I think we're pregnant.
And he's, and it was, the lines were very faint. So we couldn't tell for sure.
But just his reaction

Speaker 2 and just the way I slept. I slept so good that that night.
I didn't even think about it. I'm thinking we're good no matter what.

Speaker 1 You started this YouTube channel, obviously, shortly after that she was born. How did you guys decide to do this?

Speaker 2 So when he was

Speaker 2 in college for that last year, I decided to move in with him. I was pregnant for that whole year.

Speaker 2 And he had a roommate, like someone that was kind of there just to help with that last year of college because he was playing, you know, D1 basketball and he was still going to school.

Speaker 2 And then, you know, I was pregnant. And so he was kind of just there to like keep tabs and make sure that everything was good.

Speaker 2 And he was the one that said, hey, guys, like, you guys should really start a YouTube channel. And he's like, you know, your videos are going viral on Facebook and people are making money off of them.

Speaker 2 And I'm thinking like, what? Cause we would make like cute little homemade videos, you know, of him talking to my belly or just us being funny and goofy or whatever.

Speaker 2 And he's like, people are taking your videos and monetizing your videos. Why don't you guys make your own videos?

Speaker 2 And I thought, can we do that? You can make money off your videos. I'm like, what? Like, that's so crazy.
And

Speaker 2 at the time, you know, his dreams were to play in the NBA.

Speaker 2 And that summer, you know, he got with the wrong agent and he did a couple of tryouts, you know, one with the Lakers, one with the Knicks.

Speaker 2 And just it didn't work out. And we thought, what are we going to do? Like, either you go play overseas

Speaker 2 in Greece or something. We move the bait.
We go as a family. And,

Speaker 2 and, but nothing is, you know, in set in stone. Like, we don't know what that looks like.

Speaker 2 And so then that's when we were like, let's start YouTube.

Speaker 1 Back in the beginning, once Elle was born, whose decision was it to make her a part of the content?

Speaker 2 It just came naturally.

Speaker 2 Yeah, because I didn't film my birth with Elle. It was like, you know, we were just private, you know, just, I mean, mean, we filmed on our phone, you know, we weren't making a vlog.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I think like it just made sense because we are so hands-on with our child. And we, my, I was not going to get a nanny.
I'm like, I'm going to raise my daughter.

Speaker 2 You know, I'm, I'm finally having my daughter here, you know? And I thought, well, we can make content with, with our daughter, you know, we can just naturally, organically share our journey.

Speaker 1 Did you have any hesitations in the beginning or later on about putting your kids on camera never and you know why alex why because back in the day

Speaker 2 it was really new like youtube it's been a thing for a while but we were really like that like

Speaker 2 i hate to say the word but i feel like we kind of pioneered that like family vlogging experience you know what i mean it's like we were the first to do it at that magnitude in that way and it was like

Speaker 2 i

Speaker 2 it was like when this monster of like social media was sharding you know sometimes i think back i'm like oh my god am i part of that this craziness that's going on now in the world you know because obviously i'm sure you've seen it but like there are people that accuse you and austin of exploiting your kids like what do you say to that yeah i just think that like

Speaker 2 When we first started, it was so pure. It was like pure intentions.
It was like, obviously, we want to make a living, you know, like anyone wants to make a living. You got to work.

Speaker 2 But it was more like we're just being present with our family, our daughter. And it's interesting because we would make these elaborate videos.

Speaker 2 And we found out very early on that people enjoyed our family vlogs, our simple family vlogs sitting on the floor.

Speaker 2 Those would get more views than our like big elaborated videos we would spend money on and doing. So it was just like, well, people just want to see us.
They just relate to us.

Speaker 2 Maybe they see themselves in us.

Speaker 1 So much of your success is through your children. Like, did you guys have a big conversation about setting them up with money and like putting money away for them?

Speaker 1 Or was it more just like, it's all the families?

Speaker 2 Yeah. No, they have their separate bank account.

Speaker 2 Actually, very early on in my career, I think 2017, when Elle was about a year old, we got her a bank account, you know?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think that those were the conversations and things we were having.

Speaker 2 But in terms of like exploitation and stuff, like that never crossed our mind. That was like,

Speaker 2 like i don't

Speaker 2 i just feel like

Speaker 2 we were just the beginning of something new how do you feel about it now

Speaker 2 you know we're in the age of technology and

Speaker 2 you know it's like there's no right or wrong i don't think like i think that like if people choose to keep their private certain private things away from social media that's beautiful and i think that if some people choose to do it the opposite way i think that that's beautiful too.

Speaker 2 I think that everything's meant to be the way that it's meant to be.

Speaker 1 Once you guys kind of started really

Speaker 1 becoming yourselves and people knew the Ace family, like on a good month,

Speaker 1 can I ask, like, how much were you guys making?

Speaker 2 So there was a period we were making, like, we were making seven fingers a month.

Speaker 2 To me, it, it was like, I was numb to it.

Speaker 2 Truly, like, it didn't make it, it was just like, like, it didn't make any sense. I was going through this phase in my life where I just felt so disattached.

Speaker 2 And now I look back and think, oh my God, I would have done so much with that. I would have invested.
I would have bought my mama house, my dad's house, I would have done this, this and that.

Speaker 2 And it's like

Speaker 2 we,

Speaker 2 we just didn't have the right mentors. We didn't have the right tools.
You know, we didn't have, we had a lot of yes men around us. And we just made really bad business decisions along the way.

Speaker 1 Once you guys started filming everything all the time, when did it start to feel like you weren't just filming parts of your life, but you were living

Speaker 1 to film and get content? Like, when do you think that switch happens? Because I feel like for a lot of creators,

Speaker 2 it happens. Oh my gosh.
Yeah. There is moments where I'm like, Because, you know, like big reveals and stuff, like people want to watch those.
That's a great clickbait. And so,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 2 it was genuine for a long time it was like okay like he's genuinely surprising he's genuinely proposing to me like it was like wow like this is so crazy that we can capture such a big milestone big moment and we can actually look back on it too like it's filmed um but then also having so many eyes on you i didn't know back in the day back in the time now i know but i didn't know that i was not protecting myself but the moment that um i realized where I don't know if this is real or not real, I don't know.

Speaker 2 That must have happened

Speaker 2 genuinely. There was like a big moment for me.
It was

Speaker 2 when my second daughter was born.

Speaker 2 I just felt this disconnection. And it was like, I actually don't want to film this, but like, I know that people are waiting for it because they've invested so much.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 there was this fine line of like, do I put my foot down and just like live in the moment or do I also? So, and then he was holding the camera. So it made it easier.

Speaker 2 But then it was like, is he here though? Is he present? So that, that was like a big moment for me.

Speaker 1 And did you end up releasing a video?

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 How did you feel about it?

Speaker 2 I was just like really numb and empty at the time. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Did you ever find

Speaker 1 that you started to not be clear if Austin was doing romantic gestures for you because it was he was filming it so it would look good for you guys as a couple or were you like wait, is he actually doing this romantic gesture and he just happens to be filming?

Speaker 2 Oh, uh, totally. Yeah, there were moments where I'm thinking like,

Speaker 2 I don't know, like you really surprised me, you know, or it's like, and then it was like me kind of having to follow with that like surprise. And then I'm like, I feel like I'm a clown in a circus.

Speaker 2 You know what I mean? Right.

Speaker 1 Because you couldn't just naturally be like,

Speaker 1 like, if my husband surprises me, of course, I'm going to be surprised. But then you kind of like chill for a second after, wait, when did you think of this? But you have to, you see the camera.

Speaker 1 So then it's like, keep it going. Call the kids down.
Get everyone around. Let's run to the backyard.
And it's like, you're

Speaker 1 a production. Yes.

Speaker 2 And it's theatrical.

Speaker 1 Which feels like you probably were on this hamster wheel where it's like you can't get off this ride almost.

Speaker 1 And you, did you and Austin ever have a conversation being like, let's set boundaries of like what we should keep private and what we shouldn't?

Speaker 2 There might have been moments where we kind of talked about, but to be honest with you, not really. Like,

Speaker 2 I just, we didn't have that communication within ourselves. Yeah.

Speaker 1 In the book, you write that Austin made a lot of financial decisions without asking you and that it was so extreme, you would check your bank accounts and see six figures missing.

Speaker 1 Where was all the money going?

Speaker 2 Yeah, there was moments where, you know, I'd see some money coming out and it was, you know, to pay this, pay that.

Speaker 2 And it was like, I didn't feel like I was having that like wife, like that partner, that husband and wife conversation about our finances.

Speaker 2 And it would be heartbreaking to look at the bank because I was very well aware of what was in there. And it's like, where did that go? Like, what's happening? Or like,

Speaker 2 one thing as well, it's like little things that, you know, things that I would never think to pay for, like, um, like a private jet, for instance, you know, that personally for me wasn't something I would ever do.

Speaker 2 Like if I had never met him, I would have never been on a private jet today. I'm like, probably never, you know, because I'm thinking like, I'll just take a regular flight.

Speaker 2 But little moments like that.

Speaker 1 But it seems, which makes me sad for you, because I feel like that unfortunately is a lot of people's experience where you're like, I didn't feel like it was a partnership when it came to finances.

Speaker 1 And yet you were 50-50 and making all this money. Like, did you ever go to him and be like, Austin, I feel a little bit in the dark here.
Like we need to have.

Speaker 1 For sure. And how did he react when you would bring that up?

Speaker 2 Oh, you know, I'm sorry. You know, I didn't want you to worry.
And

Speaker 2 I don't know. I just feel like, you know,

Speaker 2 I get it, but it's like, that's not what a marriage is about. A marriage is about talking about these very deep things that really affect like our children and our future.

Speaker 2 And like, you know, when you make certain investments, the goal is to make at least make your money back. Yeah.
You know? And so

Speaker 2 that was really stressful for me. That really caused a lot of stress and strain in our relationship.

Speaker 1 That's what I was wondering because I know you write a lot about the home foreclosure that you guys went through, which was so public. And so many people were talking about it of like, are they broke?

Speaker 1 What's happening? And you put a lot of the detail beautifully in the book, but like overall, when you look back at that moment in your life, what did losing that house represent to you?

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 leading up to that moment,

Speaker 2 we, I felt like there was a lot of things that I was losing control over, right? My family, my relationship,

Speaker 2 our career, everything, right? There was a lot of narratives and things that were being said. And I, and, you know, I kept, I was really strong.
And I was like, you know, I'm going to be strong.

Speaker 2 And, you know, I'm going to keep fighting. And we have our home, you know, we have our home.
Our kids are happy. They're healthy.
We're healthy. Everything's fine.

Speaker 2 And so one day I wake up and I get a phone call. And it's my father-in-law.
He said, Kathy, the house is under foreclosure. It's all over the news.
And I'm like, what do you mean? What do you mean?

Speaker 2 He goes, well, your loan ended and no one's going to, it's a jumbo loan. No one's going to accept you.
You don't have the certificate of occupancy.

Speaker 2 But I'm like, but I've been paying the mortgage every month for three years. Everything, we, what do I need to do? What do I need to pay? I'll save it.
What do we need? There's nothing you can do.

Speaker 2 It's under foreclosure. It's gone.
You have 30 days to move out. Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And it was heartbreaking. I cried in ocean.

Speaker 2 And it's crazy because out of all the things that were happening in that era, that was the thing that really broke me. Because I was looking for a home my whole life.

Speaker 2 It's like I just wanted to feel like I'm at home.

Speaker 1 Can you explain to me? Because I'm sure people are really confused and want a little bit of clarity on like, there was so much going on behind the scenes, obviously, that people didn't know. Like,

Speaker 1 what was it really like between you and Austin when the cameras were off?

Speaker 2 When the cameras were off, I wouldn't say that there was much of a change. I think, if anything, at least I can speak for myself.
I feel like I was pretending. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 It's like, I feel like I was

Speaker 2 just so disconnected from myself,

Speaker 2 not like everything around me, but like within myself, you know, and I was like,

Speaker 2 all of this happened so fast. Like I gave birth.
We start a YouTube channel. It grows overnight.
I'm a new mother. I'm newly married.

Speaker 2 There's all these eyes on us.

Speaker 2 There's so many people that want things from us. And, you know, it just, it was just a lot of things.

Speaker 2 And so when the cameras were off, it was more like, I'm just going to sit here and breastfeed my baby and just like scroll on my phone. Like I never went out.
I never hung out with my friends.

Speaker 2 I hardly saw my family. I was in a really dark place.

Speaker 1 Let's talk about the cheating allegations.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 over the years, there were so many different allegations of Austin cheating on you. And it was a pretty constant conversation online for a couple of years.

Speaker 2 At first,

Speaker 1 how much attention were you giving to these rumors? And did you even believe them when it first started?

Speaker 2 When it first started, my heart sank. I'm like, oh my gosh.
Like, I remember like sitting with my, oh my gosh, like, is this going to happen? You know, and then it was like, oh, well, I see him.

Speaker 2 I'm with him every day. Like, we're co-parenting.
We're married. We're business partners.
I mean, when is he going to have time? But it's really interesting.

Speaker 2 I was telling my mom the other day, I remember when I was 16 years old and I walked into a room where the TV was on and there was,

Speaker 2 it was that talk show, Tyra Banks. And there was a lady who said, if a man has enough time to go into the bathroom, he has enough time to cheat.
And it just stuck with me. And I thought,

Speaker 2 does he have enough time to cheat on me? You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 And so that was kind of like the beginning. It's like, I don't know what's true or not.
And, you know, I'd even have moments where we'd be laying in bed, you know, just falling asleep.

Speaker 2 And I'd get a text from a random number.

Speaker 2 Your husband is out at a party with me, da, da, da. And I'm thinking like, he's right over here.
So some, there's moments I didn't know what to believe.

Speaker 2 There's some things that are true, there's some things that are distorted, there's some things that are not true.

Speaker 2 So, it was really hard to tell.

Speaker 1 And in those moments, did you, because I know you're kind of saying your communication wasn't great. When the allegation started, did you bring it up to him at all?

Speaker 1 Or was that another thing that you guys kind of were like?

Speaker 2 Yeah, no, no, no. I brought it up.

Speaker 1 And what was his response in the beginning?

Speaker 2 Oh, you know, that comes with a territory and let's not respond because we're just going to add fuel to the fire. And it's not true.
And I'm like, okay, you know, and

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 2 you trusted him? I did. Yeah, I really trusted him.

Speaker 1 When you look back at the very beginning, like the very beginning allegations, do you believe even then he was cheating?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 1 Can you take me to the moment where you found out about he was cheating? And then we'll dial it back to like the others. But the first big moment, you're like, oh shit, he's cheating.
Where were you?

Speaker 1 What happened?

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Speaker 1 The first big moment you're like, oh shit, he's cheating. Where were you? What happened?

Speaker 2 Yeah. So there was a couple, there was like quite a few moments.
Okay. There was a couple of moments where I was like,

Speaker 2 I'm heartbroken.

Speaker 2 Like, um, the first one.

Speaker 1 Let's go to the first one.

Speaker 2 So, you know, I don't remember exactly the first, first moment because I feel like there's just so many, but

Speaker 2 there was this one

Speaker 2 moment. I had just had my daughter, my second daughter.
She was about six months old or something. And he was like, hey, I have to go to Miami for a meeting.
And, and I go, please.

Speaker 2 And I'm, you know, I'm the type of partner where I love for my partner to feel free. Like, I trust you.
Go. You want to go on a trip? You want to go on a boys' trip? Whatever you want to do.
Go.

Speaker 2 Like, that's just my personality. Now I look back.
I'm thinking, like, I should

Speaker 2 change some things up a little bit and care a little bit more. But at the time, I just had a baby.
I was tired. I was filming every day.
I had another baby.

Speaker 2 I was taking care, changing diapers, breastfeeding, breastfeeding all my kids five years straight.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 super exhausted, super tired, you know? And so he said, I want to go to Miami. And I said, you know, you go, you go on your trip.

Speaker 2 And I remember calling my mom and my mom saying i would never let my husband leave when my baby's like just a couple months old like you're i don't know you're different and i'm thinking oh well i don't know i was like you know i think he deserves it he's been working so hard he edits people don't realize he edited every single video on our channel we didn't have an editor so i thought you know he deserves to go out like it's okay he wants to go on a business trip whatever i remember that business trip like it was yesterday that business trip

Speaker 2 he called me quite a few times where i felt like you're calling me a little too too much. Like I was just like, I don't know.
Like, it's okay. Go have fun, you know?

Speaker 2 And he pocket dialed me accidentally and I heard women in the back, a couple women. And I thought, okay, well, okay.
Well, I guess my husband's hanging out with women. I'm thinking, whatever.

Speaker 2 Hung up the phone, continued my day.

Speaker 2 A couple of months go by.

Speaker 2 And this

Speaker 2 blonde male makeup artist makes this video on YouTube talking about my husband and how he was in Miami and there was this group of people and there was all these girls and there was this bow and all these and to be honest with you till the till this day I never watched the video but I have gotten that like information from some good friends who watched it for me and were able to like process it for me and help me process it

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 I was pregnant in that moment

Speaker 2 And I had to, I had to listen to that. And nobody knew I was pregnant.
I was having my son. And I, and I remember bawling and thinking, is this true?

Speaker 2 And even if it's not true, why are people saying this? This is like so detailed. And like,

Speaker 2 and I believe, you know, I didn't believe the horrors, but

Speaker 2 it was like,

Speaker 2 am I just being stupid right now? Like, am I just

Speaker 2 really not sitting with this? Or

Speaker 2 am I, do I, do I vindicate him? Do I vindicate our family? And that's what I did.

Speaker 2 And I think back at my old self, I think,

Speaker 2 poor girl, like, I wish I could hug her today. Like, she was just going through so much.
And she,

Speaker 2 um, the old version of myself just wanted to protect that little piece we had in the family, you know?

Speaker 2 And I would see it in his eyes. And I'm thinking, like,

Speaker 2 I don't know, like, something's not right, but I'm going to have a baby and I have to focus on the baby right now. So I wasn't sure.
Right. And that was a big moment for me because

Speaker 2 there was some things that were being said that just, it just made a lot of sense. It was all adding up.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 And did you confront him?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I did, but not in a way where I was

Speaker 2 like,

Speaker 2 it was more like, how do we fix this? Because this is not true. And he's like, yeah, that's not true.
Da, da, da. That's, you know, what this guy and he's making things things up.

Speaker 2 And oh my God, he's trying to extort me and this and that. And, you know, some of those things were true.
Some of them weren't. And I thought, how do we fix it? And I was, I was just lying to myself.

Speaker 2 I knew deep inside. Something didn't feel right.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 But then a couple months later.

Speaker 2 I was,

Speaker 2 we were filming this thing called Vlogmas on YouTube. People film every day for the month of December.
And we had done it, you know,

Speaker 2 it was like a comic.

Speaker 2 We would do every winter.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 this was in december

Speaker 2 and i was you know at that point i was like about three months pregnant with my son

Speaker 2 i didn't know i was having a boy yet so i just you know i was pregnant i wore baggy shirts and like you know like i'd wear bigger shirts because i didn't want anyone to know yeah i wanted to keep it to myself especially because there was all this like negativity going around about him yeah so i'm like i'm just gonna keep this to myself

Speaker 2 and then there is this moment that changed everything for me

Speaker 2 um

Speaker 2 we oh i had a dream i have a lot of dreams very symbolic I'm sure you do too. Yeah.
I had a dream where I was walking into my bedroom, the, the bedroom I was sleeping in.

Speaker 2 We had this massive long 10 foot bed. I'm walking into the room and there's this, he's sitting in the bed and there's a woman with this beautiful blonde hair.

Speaker 2 And I just see the back of her and she turns around and she's this demon. And I woke up from that nightmare and I was, I was crying.
I was like, oh my God, that was the worst nightmare I've ever had.

Speaker 2 Like I literally, there was a demon on my bed.

Speaker 2 And the whole day felt eerie. It was so eerie.
It was so weird. And I didn't tell anybody.
And I was just like, that's so weird. A couple of hours later, we start filming.
And we go to

Speaker 2 this

Speaker 2 studio to get my daughter's first haircut. She was a year old, just getting her first haircut.
And he, you know, our assistant, who was Austin's friend from back in the day, was there.

Speaker 2 It was Austin and myself and our daughter. And we walked in, you know, there's some fans and they were like, can we take a picture?

Speaker 2 And I'm like, yeah, yeah, like, let's finish filming, you're doing this. And we'll take the photo.
So they're all waiting there. And, you know, everyone in the salon knows who we are and stuff.

Speaker 2 So it was just, you know, a regular moment where they're filming. He's filming our daughter's first haircut.
And I'm kind of like, I'm taking photos for myself for my phone.

Speaker 2 You know, like, oh my gosh, like taking the photo. And then like a movie, my camera, I mean, my phone dies.
It just goes black. And I look at him without a thought.

Speaker 2 And I go, give me, give me, give me, give me your phone, give me me your phone. Let me take a photo because, you know, we're going to miss the moment.
She's getting our first haircut.

Speaker 2 As soon as my hand grabs that phone, mind you, I had never,

Speaker 2 never looked in his phone, ever, ever,

Speaker 2 never.

Speaker 2 I grabbed the phone and it felt kind of weird because I'm like holding his phone, right? Like, it just felt odd because I knew maybe there had maybe things he was hiding. I didn't want to look.
Yep.

Speaker 2 As soon, Alex, as soon as I grabbed the phone,

Speaker 2 like out of a movie, this long text comes through. If you really love your wife, you wouldn't be da-da-da-da-da.
And I, I, like, my, my brain scanned it, but I wasn't able to read it fully.

Speaker 2 But in that moment, my heart drops. I'm pregnant.
There's people watching us. The camera's on.
It felt like, it just felt surreal.

Speaker 2 The assistant looks, notices, looks at him. He grabs the phone from me and instantly deletes a message.
And I thought, oh my gosh, it's true.

Speaker 2 Oh my God. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I was calm, very calm.

Speaker 2 And we've, you know, we paid and we finished. I wasn't in my body anymore.
My like, I wasn't on earth anymore. We walk out of the

Speaker 2 store or the salon. And I said, Austin, who was that?

Speaker 2 And he's like, it's somebody. It's nothing.

Speaker 2 Please tell me who that was. I saw the text.
and I kept replaying what I could have done. Should I ran to the bathroom? Like, should I like take, like, I'm like, what should I have done?

Speaker 1 Like, tackle him and read it.

Speaker 2 Like,

Speaker 2 I was like, I didn't get to fully read it.

Speaker 1 But you saw enough that it said, if you really love it.

Speaker 2 It was an emotional, I saw enough to know instantly. This is an emotional relationship he's having with somebody.
This is a woman that is

Speaker 2 having a relationship. with my husband.

Speaker 2 And we got in the car and, you you know, then my voice got a little, who was that?

Speaker 2 Oh, like lower your voice, the kids. And I'm like, okay.
And I'm calming myself. The kids are in the car.
Let's like, I'm going to

Speaker 2 have grace, stay strong, poised. Get home.
We get home,

Speaker 2 blacked out. I was like

Speaker 2 yelling, screaming, tell me, please, please, just tell me who that was. Please, just, I feel so stupid.
Just tell me. I'm having a baby.
Please, just tell me. And I ran out of the house.

Speaker 2 I got in my car and I just started driving.

Speaker 2 And I didn't know where I was was driving just driving crying in ocean bawling i couldn't even see where i was driving and i thought i need to park somewhere so i went to a park parked at the park put my hands on the wheel and i said god if you hear me please tell me what to do

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 in that moment it's so interesting because um

Speaker 2 I knew that one day I'd have a son and that I would name him Steele. There was like this inner knowing.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 when I had that conversation with God and I was really just like, just like a point of just, I'm surrendering. Just tell me what to do.

Speaker 2 And I heard this voice and it was like,

Speaker 2 you are having your son. There's a reason you named him Steele.
You have to stay strong for this whole pregnancy and just don't make any impulsive decisions. Just keep going.

Speaker 2 Just keep this in the back of your mind.

Speaker 2 It's going to, it's, it's going to live there and it's going to, it's going to, you're going to see everything's going to make sense but don't make any big decisions right now

Speaker 2 and i went home and i acted like nothing

Speaker 2 i acted like nothing i was you know i was i didn't talk to him for a couple days i think that was the longest we'd ever gone without talking since we met i think i think we went like two three days

Speaker 2 um

Speaker 2 and then um i texted him and i was like we need to talk And we went, we, we took a drive, we met in the middle of a street and we got in the car and he told me who she was and he showed me.

Speaker 2 And I was like, okay, so that was the girl you were talking to a couple months back. Now it's all making sense.
Like you said you were talking to a girl that needed help with Snapchat.

Speaker 2 And I'm thinking like, why is a married man talking to a woman about Snapchat? Like Snapchat wasn't even monetized in the day. Like, what are you talking about? Like, what are you doing?

Speaker 2 Like, okay, this is making sense. Okay, this is making sense.
Okay.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 I thought, okay, well.

Speaker 2 What do we need to do? Like,

Speaker 2 how can we, how can we move on from this? Like, what do we do? Like, i was like and i didn't tell him this at the time but i thought i can forgive him because he's crying out for help and

Speaker 2 i can i because at the time i was i wasn't religious i still not religious you know i'm i'm i believe in christ but i'm not bound by like religious um structures but i was very like you stick to your husband I was very like traditional in that sense.

Speaker 2 And I don't know who made me like that, but I was just that way. And I thought, okay, maybe I can forgive him, you know? And so as the days went on, you know, then we went to a trip to Hawaii.

Speaker 2 Someone said we should go there because, you know, that's where the heart chakra of the planet is. And, you know, maybe we can get some healing.
And so we went to Hawaii.

Speaker 2 And then that's when I had posted that I was pregnant, thinking like, I'm getting bigger now. I need to post.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 yeah, it's, it's a, it's a secret that I was carrying inside of me. And I wanted to like scream out loud that I was going through this, but I couldn't.

Speaker 1 Listening to you say this, though, Catherine, like so many times now

Speaker 1 you've said the minute you find out you're like how can we fix this how can we fix this and i think it does connect to what you've been saying of like you're on this hamster wheel you're out of your body you're all this happened to your life and you're just going and you can't even like stop to be like Are you okay?

Speaker 1 Like, do you, it's almost like you, it sounds like you weren't even like feeling like you were just like, how do we fix this? It's like, almost like your business.

Speaker 1 You're like, how do we we fix this and move forward? How do I say bye main and move forward?

Speaker 1 I'm wondering, though, when you're saying all this, like, is he apologetic in the car when he's speaking, or is he keeping it more like brushing it under the rug? It's not that big of a deal.

Speaker 2 I'm gonna be honest with you,

Speaker 2 it never felt apologetic ever.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 and you know, what's interesting is, um,

Speaker 2 even

Speaker 2 through our divorce,

Speaker 2 even through everything,

Speaker 2 I never heard him say the words, I cheated until about a week ago when that first chapter of my book came out. I've never heard him say the words, I cheated.

Speaker 2 And when I heard the words, I was like, oh my God.

Speaker 2 Finally, I heard it. Thank you so much.
That was all I was waiting for. Thank you.
That's all I needed to hear. You could have just said it to me.

Speaker 2 you could have just been honest with me and just told me but it was like I was being gaslighted like it like it wasn't actually happening and it was like

Speaker 2 and um

Speaker 2 yeah I think that finally hearing those words was so healing for me because it's like I wasn't going crazy like it was everywhere everyone was saying it why do you think he decided to finally say those words just because you were officially calling him out that and because

Speaker 2 now I understand the bigger, the whole picture. I get it.

Speaker 2 I think a common theme for him was:

Speaker 2 because if you really think about it, what kind of woman sleeps with a married man whose whole identity is based on being a married man and having being a family man, you know?

Speaker 2 So, I kept thinking, I kept going through those things as well. It's like, women are really like that.
Like, women, and so, um, what I was thinking was, um,

Speaker 2 he must have been telling this woman that I didn't care.

Speaker 2 And in that video he, he posted last week,

Speaker 2 out of everything he said, I mean, everything was false, right?

Speaker 2 Or distorted or whatever. But the one thing he said

Speaker 2 that really, really just like, it was like a, like a punch to the gut was that he said that I was that, yes, I cheated and she was okay with it.

Speaker 2 As long as, um, he said, as long as I said, you don't embarrass me and that is not true. I never ever ever said that.
I would never say that.

Speaker 2 And I would never want my kids to think that that is okay to cheat on your husband or your wife.

Speaker 2 And I will make sure that I raise them and that they know that they never, ever do that because that is so wrong. And you never cheat on the person you love.

Speaker 2 And I would never in a million years say that. So that was really hurtful that he,

Speaker 2 that he said that because I'm like, are you just accept it? People would understand that better.

Speaker 1 He's putting the blame back on you. That's him taking no accountability.
Think about that. The first time he acknowledges that he cheated,

Speaker 1 the end of his sentence, he can't just say, I cheated. Yes, I cheated because she told me, just don't make me look dumb.

Speaker 1 AKA, you were allowing him to go and have all these relationships and you're sitting here being like.

Speaker 2 I would never, Alex.

Speaker 2 I would never do that.

Speaker 1 And I think now also understanding like how you write in the book you kind of talk about like once the first you really got the concrete evidence

Speaker 1 then more came out like how many more did you find out about I know

Speaker 2 like I know personally of women like I like don't know them personally like as I'm friends with them but I know who they are

Speaker 2 And I would never say their names. Yes.
Never, never, never, never. I would never, you know, I'm not that kind of person.

Speaker 2 but i know of many

Speaker 2 um

Speaker 2 many as in like i know for sure of three

Speaker 2 like for sure for sure have they ever reached out to you no but they're out there in the world acting like that never happened probably and i know the the truth how many do you think there are

Speaker 2 I don't know. I saw some headline things saying he said there was 20 or something.
I don't know if that's true or not.

Speaker 2 Because I didn't watch his full video, but I don't know if he did say that, kind of trying to cover himself yeah um because i think when he saw um the beginning the the first chapter of my book he thought maybe that i wrote a lot more about him but i kind of didn't in a sense like to be honest with you it's a memoir about my life um but i will say that when you write a book you always put the um the hardest part of your journey in the beginning of the book right to catch the reader to really draw them in that's just something that as writers is common and so um he really got it backwards I

Speaker 1 want to ask you, there were some like viral cheating rumors that I want to just like get your opinion on.

Speaker 1 Tana Mongeau recently revealed that she covered for Austin after you found lipstick in Austin's car.

Speaker 1 What really happened there?

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 she

Speaker 2 covered for him, which I believe that it's probably true. It definitely happened because

Speaker 2 I remember we had a Lamborghini at the time. I never drove that car.
And I got in one day

Speaker 2 as a passenger and I noticed there was a lip

Speaker 2 lip liner,

Speaker 2 lip liner or lip gloss, something like that. And it wasn't mine.
And I thought, and I look, I grab, I'm like, who's this?

Speaker 2 He's like, oh,

Speaker 2 so and so got in my car the other day. And, you know, his girlfriend was on the lap and I drove them down the street to get into their car.

Speaker 2 And I just said, I'm like, I don't believe you. Like,

Speaker 2 at this point now,

Speaker 2 I don't believe you right it's like I'm gonna call him right now and so I guess she was there

Speaker 2 and um

Speaker 2 yeah I think you know um

Speaker 2 I think her publicly talking about that is hurtful why didn't you call me message me tell oh hey girl I was there on that phone call I just want to let you know you know that wasn't true.

Speaker 1 It was also rumored that Austin would hire nannies so he could sleep with them when you weren't around. Do you know if this is true?

Speaker 2 No, we never had a nanny. Never had a nanny.
Grandma. Okay.

Speaker 1 Did you ever get confirmation if the infamous yacht orgy happened?

Speaker 2 Yes, I actually did.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Wow. And that was when he butt dialed you that weekend?

Speaker 2 That was that weekend. Yeah.

Speaker 1 How did you get confirmation?

Speaker 2 Through a friend who's married to a guy that was physically there.

Speaker 2 Wow. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Years later, by the way, when it didn't matter anymore. It just was like, oh, really? Okay.
That's surprising to me. Right.
You're like, shit. I guess it did happen.

Speaker 1 Did Austin really bring his mistress to a charity event you guys threw together at the Staples Center?

Speaker 2 Yeah. So there was this girl,

Speaker 2 the girl that I was talking about earlier, the one with the long text. So that was her.

Speaker 1 Since that information came to light, Austin has completely denied it, said he would have never brought a girl there. That never happened.
Like, what do you say to that?

Speaker 2 To me, it's like, why lie about that?

Speaker 2 But now I know, like, you can lie about a lot of things that aren't true.

Speaker 2 So I'm like, okay, well, because the thing is, is that I knew that writing this book, there would be some kind of like retaliation or some things that are said.

Speaker 2 I knew that, you know,

Speaker 2 something would come from this, obviously, because, you know, I wrote a book.

Speaker 2 I didn't know what magnitude that I wasn't aware of, but it's interesting because

Speaker 2 I saw it and I thought,

Speaker 2 this is not

Speaker 2 me, you know, like this is, I'm past that.

Speaker 2 Like, I truly feel like it was a test.

Speaker 2 Truly, it's like

Speaker 2 you, Austin, you could have handled that differently. You know, you could have said,

Speaker 2 I saw, I saw, see, she has a book out, you know, and one of the things he said is I didn't tell him about the book.

Speaker 2 The thing is, when you go through a divorce, you don't really tell someone what you're doing you know what i mean and i had been promoting the book for actually for two years i've been talking about it so he had seen it um i think if i would have mentioned the book to him privately he may have want to try to stop me from doing it so it was just something i didn't i mean it was doing me you know um

Speaker 2 but

Speaker 2 yeah i think that um

Speaker 2 Him, he he could have handled it differently. He could have said, you know, I just saw that Catherine, you know, my ex-wife, she has a book out.

Speaker 2 And he could have said something along the lines of, you know, although I don't totally agree with what she said, you know, there's, I guess there's always different sides of the story.

Speaker 2 And I wish her well.

Speaker 1 And I'm not proud of the things I did, but we've both moved on and whatever. Yeah.
I just feel like the staple center moment for him to try to say that wasn't true.

Speaker 1 It's like, again, Austin trying to reclaim this narrative because specifically that I think because there's footage of you and your family and it was such a core of who you guys were totally to the world it makes him just look like an absolute fucking monster to like you if you're gonna cheat can't you just go do it in private like you have to put catherine and your children through this and so i think it must be him trying to reclaim the narrative a little bit and like litigate like well no i didn't bring her here but i brought her it doesn't matter well the crazy thing is it did happen and that's where i found out all the lies so like that moment was a significant moment in my life.

Speaker 2 So of course I'm going to talk about it if that was life-changing for me because I was pregnant when all of these things were going on and I got confirmation from one of his family members saying I told him not to bring that girl and da da da da da and I'm thinking like what you knew too like I'm thinking like oh my gosh like

Speaker 2 I'm just being blindsided over here. Like I had no idea.
Like truly like, yeah, I've been seeing the rumors and the narratives,

Speaker 2 but oh my gosh, like,

Speaker 2 why can't you tell me? Like, why don't you talk to me? Like, was this before or after the text incident that you that was around the same time.

Speaker 1 Okay, so that's when it all started to like, yeah,

Speaker 1 and then to go to this event and have that woman there. And now he's trying to say no.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 Austin recently tried to justify all of his cheating by saying you guys weren't having sex.

Speaker 1 What was your sex life like at the time?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 sex intimacy is very, very sacred to me, like more today than it has ever been.

Speaker 2 When I found out that there was cheating, I checked out. And I said, my body is a temple and I refuse to allow anybody.
to come near my temple if

Speaker 2 he cannot be honest and truthful and loyal. And it was like, I'm checked out.

Speaker 2 And it is true. And I actually wrote it in the book.
I put the same exact, put four years. It was four years.
It was actually more like five years, if you think about it, because

Speaker 2 five years of what? Of not being intimate with him. Okay.
Because

Speaker 2 just to be completely transparent and honest, because I do feel like a lot of women and men can relate to this. But

Speaker 2 I was going through a lot of postpartum, you know, your body changes, you know, you're breastfeeding and you're taking care of multiple children. And so

Speaker 2 we

Speaker 2 had my daughter and then we had, you know, I was pregnant that whole year and I was, though, the cheating allegations, all the things. And I thought, you know, I don't know.

Speaker 2 And then I got pregnant with my son.

Speaker 2 And I'm thinking like, maybe we can make this work, you know, maybe this is not what it all seems to be. And, you know, we had just moved into our new house and we're like,

Speaker 2 you know, maybe, maybe we can have a the family that we're always meant to have, you know, the family that we're portrayed to the world, you know, maybe we can really be that.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I got pregnant and then that was the, and then I found out he was cheating on me and that was it. That was a never, never, ever, ever.
Like,

Speaker 2 never again. Never again.

Speaker 1 And did he

Speaker 1 pursue you at all? Like, did he try?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 2 And that's how I knew that there was cheating going on.

Speaker 2 Right. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And you know, now,

Speaker 2 now I know how that's not normal.

Speaker 2 At the time, I thought, you know, we're going through a lot. You know, there's a lot of bad things happening around us.

Speaker 2 You know, we have children, you know, and we're overworked and we're tired and we're stressed and we are anxious and all these things. And now I think back, I'm like, even when I would like,

Speaker 2 we would kiss, it just, it was a disconnection. And I thought,

Speaker 2 this isn't my husband like

Speaker 1 prior to all the cheating allegations like did you have like a healthy intimacy life with him yeah

Speaker 2 yeah I think that that's what part of you know our love and our bond it's like we are so deeply connected like in all ways

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 yeah I'm a I'm a huge part of this problem though. It's like I take it full accountability on

Speaker 2 being in a relationship with someone and not also pursuing intimacy because

Speaker 2 although I was disgusted and I didn't want like to be intimate, I didn't have these very serious conversations like, hey, maybe we should go see a therapist, like maybe we should do couples therapy, maybe like this isn't normal going like another year

Speaker 2 without being physically intimate. It is such an important part of a marriage and a relationship.

Speaker 1 Was it the cheating that really broke down your marriage Or were you guys rocky before you found out and with the allegations?

Speaker 2 It was a cheating. It was nothing else.
Couldn't handle anything.

Speaker 1 I have to ask, Austin said you weren't having sex because you believed you were the Virgin Mary reincarnated. What is your response to that?

Speaker 2 It's really hurtful because it's just such a strange thing to say.

Speaker 2 For years of my spiritual journey, I would, you know, everyone in my circle and everyone knows how deeply connected I am to Christ and to Mother Mary.

Speaker 2 Um,

Speaker 2 more than ever today, I, I feel like I can connect to her always.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I think that's just his way to just throwing jobs, just trying to make me look crazy, you know, try to paint a picture of she's crazy. Um,

Speaker 2 yeah, it's just, it's, honestly, it's kind of sad.

Speaker 1 During all of this, I think this is something that's very sadly relatable, but

Speaker 1 you didn't confide in anyone, right? For most of the time.

Speaker 1 How did you decide not to tell your mom or anyone?

Speaker 2 My decision was solely based on the fact that I didn't want that to change people's perception of him because I thought that

Speaker 2 we could heal and we can get to a better place.

Speaker 2 I didn't want to say something and then them like have so much, you know, information. At the end of the day, it's like, it's almost like gossip, like, you know, gossiping.

Speaker 2 And I believe, I truly believe that gossiping is poison.

Speaker 2 And so I thought, you know, this is my marriage, and I'm going to, I'm just going to keep it to myself because I need to figure it out within myself.

Speaker 2 When I decided that I wanted a divorce, that's truly when I told my parents and my family. It's like, I want to get a divorce.
And they were very supportive of me.

Speaker 1 But was it like eating you alive, holding this on by yourself?

Speaker 2 Yes. And for a while it was, but I felt at one point, I'm like, like, everybody knows.

Speaker 2 You know, it's like everybody knows. It's, it's, it was like, it started to become so obvious.

Speaker 1 I, I do think, which I'm interested to hear your opinion on this. Like, I think there was a point where the public

Speaker 1 was

Speaker 1 almost shifting to being like so frustrated almost with you, because all of these women are coming forward with like pretty detailed, tangible stories, and you guys are posting like a united front, nothing's going on.

Speaker 1 How do you think not acknowledging all of it publicly impacted your reputation?

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Speaker 1 How do you think not acknowledging all of it publicly impacted your reputation?

Speaker 2 It deeply impacted my reputation. I feel like I was like in a fishbowl and like I couldn't like, it's like all these eyes pressing in on me and I'm thinking like, oh my gosh, I don't know.

Speaker 2 Do I, do I protect or do I say my truth and then my whole life changes? You know what I mean? And it's like,

Speaker 2 I always thought about my kids first. Like, I need to be a mother to them.
I need to mother them. Their mother needs to be happy, healthy, laughing, playing.

Speaker 2 Like, I don't want to, I don't want to like have two separate homes right now.

Speaker 2 I don't want to have to figure out what I'm going to do for a living now because we've been doing this for almost 10 years. You know, we've been doing this for so long.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 it was just me trying to just

Speaker 2 like navigate that with myself. Like, I didn't want to make these big, impulsive decisions

Speaker 2 publicly.

Speaker 1 And I think that's totally fair. I think, like,

Speaker 1 I get why people would start to be like, hello? Like, do you know? Like, what are you doing? Like, say something or leave or say I'm staying with him, even though I think I get.

Speaker 2 There were moments where I'm like, I'm going to leave tomorrow. Like, I'm going to do this tomorrow.
And I'm just not going to look back. And I'm just going to go.
And I'm going to find a place.

Speaker 2 And, you know, it we won't film and people are going to wonder what happened to us. That like I had those moments.
Yeah, I had those moments.

Speaker 2 But I think what was the hardest part about all of it was that he would never admit to it. And I thought, well, if you're not admitting it to me, you're not going to admit it to the world.
Right.

Speaker 2 So that was the hardest part. Right.

Speaker 1 It's almost like you were in this like gaslighted situation where this person is telling you it's not happening.

Speaker 1 And even though in your heart, you know, it's happening, you also are presenting as United Front to the world. And it's like, am I going to say it?

Speaker 1 And then he's going to deny it, even though the whole world knows it. And I've been, and I'm pregnant and I don't want to leave and I have kids.
Like it's such a complicated situation.

Speaker 1 And I get with social media, people just judge on the surface.

Speaker 1 I've done it. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 Another thing too, Alex, is another big thing that I had in the forefront of my mind. And I look back and think like, oh my gosh, I shouldn't have been thinking like that.
But I felt like if I

Speaker 2 like if I broke the family, I'm thinking like I'm needing to break the family for this, then I'm going to break everyone's heart.

Speaker 2 I'm going to break millions and millions of people who watch us and who sees us as this powerful, power couple. And I'm going to break everyone's heart because this isn't real.
This isn't true.

Speaker 2 This isn't what people think it is anymore. And I also didn't want people to bash him because I'm like, as much as he hurt me, as much as I feel like I got stabbed in the back, like I can handle that.

Speaker 2 But like, can you handle the scrutiny and the, the, all this? It's like, and clearly not because not, my book didn't even come out yet. And he, you know, but

Speaker 2 for a long time, that was, that was a huge part of why I didn't want to speak up because I don't want the father of my children to to get this like public humiliation.

Speaker 2 But then over the years, I thought, well, he already got it.

Speaker 2 You know, um,

Speaker 2 I need to do what's best for me. I can't keep living in a lie.
I can't, I can't not address the big elephant in the room.

Speaker 1 I also will just say, and I'm sure so many people watching right now are feeling this, like, I have so much respect for you,

Speaker 1 even

Speaker 1 trying

Speaker 1 to protect him, because I think a lot of people understandably would be like, fuck you, fuck you. And the fact that you,

Speaker 1 again,

Speaker 1 chose to put your family first and not yourself first. And you really looked at the big picture.
Like, I think a lot of women and especially mothers will be able to be like,

Speaker 1 I think I would do the same thing. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You talk about a breaking point because I think at some point we're all like the cheating. And when did you know this marriage was completely over? And how did you go about telling him?

Speaker 2 There was a conversation that we had right before he had this big boxing match. He was the,

Speaker 2 it was like, it was like Arvet and then he was like the main person on the card. And the night before, I felt, I felt like something was about to happen.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 It was like this like intuition feeling like in in my gut. I'm like, I don't know.
Something feels really strange about tomorrow. The fight was going to be the next day.

Speaker 2 And we were in the living room and, you know, the lights were down. The kids were asleep.
And I said, I'm not happy.

Speaker 2 And he's like,

Speaker 2 why are you, why are you talking about this now? Why are you doing this now? I have a fight tomorrow.

Speaker 2 Like, can't you just be a little bit more sympathetic to, you know, and I was like, but I, I had to say it right now. I just, I'm really not happy.
Like, I genuinely don't feel good, Austin.

Speaker 2 Like, I don't feel something doesn't feel right.

Speaker 2 And, oh, you know, we can have, we could have had this conversation after, and this and that. And then the next day,

Speaker 2 he got really sick right before his fight. He had 103 fever.
He was really sick. It didn't, it felt like a message.
It didn't feel like he just randomly got sick. No one else got sick, but Austin.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I walked into, they were saying at an Airbnb. It was like the whole team, you know, the everybody for the fight.
And they were getting ready to get in the sprinter, sprinter van or the bus.

Speaker 2 And I came in, get hair and makeup done. I'm like, hey, what's going on? He's like, come into the room.

Speaker 2 He's like, feel my forehead. And I'm like, oh my gosh, like, you're, he's like, I, I'm, I have 103 fever.
It just came a couple hours ago. I don't know.
And I'm like, well, what are you going to do?

Speaker 2 I was like, you can't fight. He's like, no, I have to.
Like, I can't not.

Speaker 2 And mind you, we just had this conversation about yesterday, like this gut feeling, like

Speaker 2 something doesn't feel right. And like, I feel like

Speaker 2 what happened that night in the fight was very, um,

Speaker 2 it was like a mirror of what's going on in our internal life.

Speaker 1 Can you explain just if people didn't see the fight?

Speaker 2 Yeah. So basically, um, he got really sick.

Speaker 2 I went out into the floor. You know, we're all watching them on the ring.
And

Speaker 2 he got the first time he got knocked down.

Speaker 2 I thought, oh my God, this is the first time I've ever seen my husband crumble.

Speaker 2 And my heart stopped. And I wanted to scream and cry and yell.
And just, I hated

Speaker 2 that moment. And then there was a voice, and then he got knocked down.
It was a second one, and then a third, and then a fourth, and then a fifth. And he just kept standing up.

Speaker 2 And I kept thinking, Oh my gosh,

Speaker 2 this is who he is. He always stands up when he falls.

Speaker 2 And there, I heard this voice, and it was like, It's okay. He's having an ego death.
He has to go through this. Hold space for him.
Everything's gonna be okay.

Speaker 2 And we left the ring. We got in the ambulance.

Speaker 2 He was completely disoriented. He just kept saying the words, I need water.
And I was like yelling at the paramedics, please get him water. He just, he's thirsty.
He's thirsty. He needs water.

Speaker 2 And they're like, no, it's against protocol. We can't give him water.
We have to wait to get him into the hospital and check in and this and that. And so

Speaker 2 that happened. And then the next day he was feeling better.
And

Speaker 2 I grabbed his hand and I posted a picture of us holding hands. And I was so ready to let go the day before.
And I was like telling the world, I'm still here for him.

Speaker 2 And it was like this moment of like,

Speaker 2 yes, we are not romantically together in that way, but I still respect him as a father and my children. And no matter what, I will always stand by his side.
And it was like that kind of energy.

Speaker 2 So then it was almost like I was okay being in the relationship

Speaker 2 as a family, as like, I'm here, we're a team. But it was like, we were not a team.
You were still lying to me.

Speaker 1 When did you tell him you wanted a divorce?

Speaker 2 So we had talked about it a couple of times. I never said the words, I want to divorce.
I never said those words ever out loud.

Speaker 2 We had

Speaker 2 the last

Speaker 2 conversation we had on separating, we actually talked about him, you know, getting another home and I was getting another home because we were actually planning on leaving the rental we were at.

Speaker 2 And,

Speaker 2 you know, when you have like really deep conversations about making plans and then they just don't fall through. So it's kind of like that kind of thing.

Speaker 2 And, um,

Speaker 2 and then the stress of like life and all the things that it brings, you know, so

Speaker 2 that wasn't like, um,

Speaker 2 we weren't like, like, we weren't trying to get that done quickly, you know, because usually when it comes to an end, you want to make, you want to get it done, right?

Speaker 2 But we hadn't reached that moment of like, it's an urgency. We need to do it right now

Speaker 2 when i had that

Speaker 2 realization that

Speaker 2 it has to happen right now i have to stop waiting for the right time because there's never going to be a right time the moment is now and i had that realization when um it was on my 33rd birthday so this is really interesting my whole life like ever since i was a kid i always said 33 is going to be the biggest year of my life.

Speaker 2 And I would say that just like jokingly in my mind. And I thought 33 is going to be the biggest year of my life.
And then I turned 33

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 I was talking to my dad. And I was like, hey, I really want to go to this retreat in Brazil.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 he was like, I want to go with you. And I was like, perfect.
Like me, you and Ryan, we'll go to this retreat, you know? And

Speaker 2 I booked my flight on my birthday.

Speaker 2 And in that moment, you know, Austin and I, it was, it was done. We didn't, we just didn't make the, we didn't put the wheels in motion to officially divorce and separate, but it was there.

Speaker 1 But you knew you were separated.

Speaker 2 We were separated for sure because it was so obvious. It was like, it was in the air.
It was like, we hardly saw each other. We stopped filming.

Speaker 1 So there was no like big moment that you were both like, we're done.

Speaker 1 Let's go our separate ways.

Speaker 2 Well, there was because I went on the retreat. And then when I came back,

Speaker 2 I had this massive expansive experience.

Speaker 2 And I got back. I landed back in Tel A.
He picked me up. I got in the car and he looked over.
He said, oh, how was it? And I was like, good. And in my head, I'm thinking, like,

Speaker 2 like, he, he, he doesn't understand what I, what, where I just went, what I just did, how, like, he doesn't understand.

Speaker 2 And I thought, that's okay. We just, we're different places vibrationally now.

Speaker 2 And I was like,

Speaker 2 if I'm going to say it, I'm going to say it right now. I got in the car, closed the door.
How was it? We're driving out, literally driving out of the airport. And I said,

Speaker 2 Austin, I need to talk to you. It's like, hey, yeah, what's up? I was like,

Speaker 2 it's not a secret that our relationship is done

Speaker 2 and we're both unhappy. You know, I've been unhappy for a long time.
I know you've been unhappy for a long time. And I want a divorce.

Speaker 2 And he's driving.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 It's like, okay. I was like, oh my gosh.
All right. Well, I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm so happy.
I was like, um,

Speaker 2 I was like, I, you know, I'm on your team and I love you and I want to do this right. And, you know, it doesn't have to get ugly.
I pray I don't want it to get ugly. And, um,

Speaker 2 and I said, um, and I said these words. I said, let's discuss an exit plan together as a team.
Like, let's do it together.

Speaker 2 He goes, yeah, yeah, we could talk about it, you know, and I was like, um, he goes, it's funny because my realtor the other day sent me a house that's for rent down the street from where we're living now.

Speaker 2 And I thought, oh, okay, cool.

Speaker 2 he's like yeah it's interesting how life works and I was like yeah I was like have you seen the house he's like oh I'm gonna see it next week and I'm like okay cool and then it was just kind of like okay like we're gonna do this why did you guys never make a video to kind of like talk about your separation because that was kind of like your guys thing well I didn't want to make a video because if he wasn't telling me the truth without the cameras rolling, he's for sure not going to tell the truth with the cameras rolling.

Speaker 2 So I thought, well, I'm not going to do a video with you side by side if you can't say, I cheated on my wife. And, you know, it led us to this path where both, we both have made mistakes.

Speaker 2 I would share my mistakes, you know, like I didn't have good communication. You know, I,

Speaker 2 you know, I wasn't there for him. Maybe when he needed me emotionally, you know, and all of these things.
And I thought, he can't be honest. So I'm not doing the video.

Speaker 1 And then he came out and said that you didn't want him to make his own video explaining the breakup from his point of view.

Speaker 1 And I guess that kind of answers it because you're like, You're not going to tell the fucking truth.

Speaker 2 He didn't tell the truth. He said, Well, there's things that I regret, but it's like that could be anything.
Right. And then, not to mention, um,

Speaker 2 so this is the thing about that. And I'm just going to be completely bluntly honest because at this point, just my throat shot goes up and I'm just going to be me.
Let's go. Um,

Speaker 2 when we discussed the divorce, I said, I'd really like to do a joint like um statement. Like, you know, a lot of people sometimes they do statements.
It's just easier, you know, and

Speaker 2 he's like, oh, no, no, I want to make a video. And I said, well, I don't want to be in your video.
So I don't, I'm not going to, I'm going to do, I'm not going to do that.

Speaker 2 I'm going to make a statement. He goes, oh, well, give me a chance to make a video and I'll show it to you.
And then you could tell me if you like it. And if you like it, then I'll post it.

Speaker 2 And I thought, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt. I'm actually curious to see what's in that video, right? I was really curious.
So I'm like, make the video. So it took a month.

Speaker 2 for him to actually make it. Okay.
And I'm like, okay. Here we go.
I get to see it. Oh my gosh.
Like, I'm so curious what he said.

Speaker 2 And I was in the room in the office room and I was watching it and just blunt, like honest, honest to God, was watching the video and I thought,

Speaker 2 this is like social suicide. Like I genuinely feel like this is going to make him look so bad.
And I love Austin no matter what. And I care about him truly.

Speaker 2 So I'm thinking if he couldn't at least say the truth, because people, people love truth. Yeah.
People love when people are honest and vulnerable. And he, he wasn't doing that.

Speaker 2 It was like he was going around the truth. And I, and I looked at him and I said, I don't like the video.
I was like, if you post that, go ahead.

Speaker 2 But if you post that, it doesn't look, I'm just going to be honest. Because at that point, it's like, I want to help you too.
I want you to move on in your life too.

Speaker 2 I don't want you to be, to have this energy around you.

Speaker 1 Right. But people are going to call you out and being like, you're a lot.
You're lying. Like, this is a big fat lie.
Like, we know you're skirting around the actual thing.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So then I said, I don't like it.
So he recorded me saying that.

Speaker 1 Why do you think he recorded you?

Speaker 2 I mean, I'm just finding this out, by the way. I just because you didn't know he was filming.
No, I think it was because he thought, well,

Speaker 2 I'm, this is what I think. I think he was never planning on posting the video.
I think he made it.

Speaker 2 So, and, and again, I don't know, right? This is just my speculation. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Um, I think he made it knowing he wasn't going to post it, but made it so that, that because he knew I wouldn't like it,

Speaker 2 because he knows me.

Speaker 2 He knows me. He's been living with me.
He's married to me for years. I'm the mother of his children.

Speaker 2 And I think he recorded me almost purposely to get those words out of me so that maybe later in the future, if he never needed it. Wow.
And he, yeah, he, I mean, he got it in 24 hours.

Speaker 2 He had it there in his phone. It was almost like ready to go.
And when I saw that, I thought, oh my gosh, can other people see this?

Speaker 2 Or am I the only one who sees like that's crazy that he's like secretly recording. Manipulative.

Speaker 2 It's manipulative.

Speaker 1 And it's illegal.

Speaker 2 Well, that's what I was told too. And I thought, well, I don't want to go that route because I mean, we were filming each other and doing pranks and things

Speaker 2 throughout the day. And then he would say, well, we used to film each other.
And then the fans would say, well, you guys were always filming each other.

Speaker 2 And I thought, oh my gosh, can my book just come out? What is it? I'm like, I just want to move on. Truly.

Speaker 1 One of the biggest conversations online right now is around your ayahuasca use. When did you start taking it?

Speaker 2 In that really dark period of my life, my marriage was going downhill. I lost my house.
My business partners scammed me.

Speaker 2 Many, many things were happening in our internal lives, our family, our friends, all the things. I just had a baby.
I was really in a really dark place.

Speaker 2 And my brother had been doing this very sacred medicine work for many years.

Speaker 2 And he would tell me all the time, you know, Catherine, one day, like when you're ready i'll be here for you and and it's a solo journey and all it took was one night of ceremony and i had a full kundalini awakening i remembered everything it completely changed my life so it's a very powerful tool i think a lot of the conversation online because of what austin kind of said on his snapchat ran is

Speaker 1 about your kids and wanting to know, have your kids ever been in the home while you're hosting at-home ceremonies?

Speaker 2 No, absolutely not. That was a lie.
I think that because he knows how sacred and how

Speaker 2 such how how much has impacted my life, I think that that was the one that jab that like, yeah, I know that means a lot to her. So I'm going to say this, you know, and and

Speaker 2 maybe a couple years ago would have been more hurtful. Now it's more like, oh, you know, just

Speaker 2 but um but no, it's that's not true. I think that people will throw stones at things they don't understand.
And I think that's what happened with Austin.

Speaker 1 Has anyone ever expressed concern to you over using ayahuasca?

Speaker 2 No, no, never.

Speaker 1 Have you and Austin ever done it together?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 1 Okay. Can you please explain Austin's allegation that you, quote,

Speaker 1 turned him into a mermaid?

Speaker 2 Oh my God, I love this one.

Speaker 1 I literally can't believe that just came out of my mouth. I'm like,

Speaker 1 is that a thing?

Speaker 2 Okay, tell me. So a couple of years ago, we were always making content.
Like Austin has dressed up so many times as an older woman, as a, like, like just funny skits and stuff. So there was,

Speaker 2 I, when I started my skincare line, um, I wanted to do a fun mermaid photo shoot. And I thought like, oh my God, this is so cool because I'm, I'm making, um,

Speaker 2 I'm making a sunscreen and it took me a couple of years to get here. And I want to do something really fun and exciting.
And

Speaker 2 so we went to Hawaii and there was this girl that I reached out to that wears, like she wears like fins. And she's like, oh, I have so many.
Like we'll do the campaign around the mermaid idea.

Speaker 2 And I thought that was so cool. So I think that's what he's talking about.

Speaker 1 But you don't think you're a mermaid?

Speaker 2 No. I mean, I think that I'm connected to the mystics and the, you know, just these, these different star seed systems.
And I, I'm just very connected.

Speaker 2 And I think that that, you know, I like to live authentically and I like to share like my journey, you know, and I'm just, I'm very connected to these things.

Speaker 2 But I think when people were just making fun of it and he thought, oh, I'm going to use this and just extra paint her look crazy, you know? And it's like,

Speaker 2 I think for me, it's just funny now, you know, I think maybe, maybe a couple of years ago, I would have been like, oh my gosh, that's, I hate that he said that, but I don't care.

Speaker 1 There has been a lot of speculation online about an overlap between your marriage with Austin and your relationship with your new partner, Igor. What was the timeline there?

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 I met him on my Brazil retreat. Met in the middle of the Amazon.
You know, I'm very honest just with my journey.

Speaker 2 Like, I think for a long time, I was afraid of sharing timelines because I was so in the limelight and on the camera all the time. And it's like the timelights started to kind of scare me a little.

Speaker 2 Now I own them. It's okay.

Speaker 2 Like

Speaker 2 it was over between us.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 it had been many years of us just not having this emotional, intimate marriage that I thought we were going to have.

Speaker 2 And I'm going to be honest with you.

Speaker 2 Right before I went on that trip, like the months leading up to that trip, I kept thinking, I have so much baggage.

Speaker 2 When we divorce, because I felt it coming, when we officially divorced, nobody's going to want me. I have three kids.

Speaker 2 Like I'm, like, I'm, you know, in this space and people are going to just see me as, you know, the Ace family mom, you know, or whatever.

Speaker 2 And I thought, you know, who's going to, who's going to take me seriously? And, and I don't want to date. I'm, I don't, I'm, I'm not a dating type of person, person, you know?

Speaker 2 And I thought, you know, I'm just gonna be alone forever. And I thought, you know, I'm okay.
It's okay. Like,

Speaker 2 I don't need anyone. I'm, I feel complete and whole in myself.
And I remember saying that to myself.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 in that retreat, you know, I, it was a four, it was, um, I was there for 10 days and it was four days of

Speaker 2 the practice.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 on the third day, just, I'm like, oh my gosh, like, I don't, I don't have as much baggage as I thought thought I did. I think it was all in my head.
I really started to sit with myself. And

Speaker 2 yeah,

Speaker 2 I met him at that, in that experience. It was a friendship.
It was like never imagined that anything would ever go further ever in a million years. Like, if you would have told me like

Speaker 2 a year ago, two or a couple of years ago that I was going to meet someone, I thought, me? Me meeting someone? Who? What does he look like? What does he do? Like,

Speaker 2 how do you speak? Right. And, um, I've never felt so safe in my entire life.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I feel like I earned it because I spent so many years just being there and just like

Speaker 2 just

Speaker 2 feeling empty and just, and I, but I really had to pour. into myself.
I really had to do that.

Speaker 1 How do Austin and Igor feel about each other?

Speaker 2 I can't speak for Austin because I don't know. I think

Speaker 2 like what he's done publicly to kind of just

Speaker 2 like he got him a shirt on

Speaker 2 Christmas that says something about stepfather or something.

Speaker 2 And I thought,

Speaker 2 okay, is he doing this for the for the Snapchat or is he doing this? Because he actually thinks he's stepfather worthy. Yeah.
You know? Have you met Austin's new?

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. I met her.
Yeah. Okay.
I met her about a year ago, I think.

Speaker 1 Yeah. How do you feel about that?

Speaker 2 I like her. I think honestly,

Speaker 2 I feel like my kids are the best, like, they're the best judge. You know, when they'll they'll come and give me information.
Oh, I don't even ask. Oh, we just did this with Alexa today.

Speaker 2 I'm like, oh my gosh, like, like, did you guys have fun? And like, just kind of seeing their like interactions and how they talk about her, anybody for them. Yeah.
Just anyone.

Speaker 2 I get good vibes, you know, and I think like

Speaker 2 at the end of the day, it's like people meet each other where they're at.

Speaker 2 So that's them. That's that, that is their journey.
And I don't judge. I don't have any judgment.

Speaker 1 Okay, last question.

Speaker 1 If you

Speaker 1 could just kind of give like a final

Speaker 1 statement to the Ace family who's watching and who's been on this journey since your first place where you lived with Austin and when you were pregnant and all the things and they've been here for so long and they felt maybe like we've lost them and things have changed and everything, which changes good.

Speaker 1 Like, what do you want to leave a lasting message with them today?

Speaker 2 I would say

Speaker 2 forgiveness is key.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Thank you so much for coming on and talking about this because I know

Speaker 1 there's so much behind all this. And that's why I'm happy I got to sit down with you today.

Speaker 1 And like I had said earlier, like I'm sure at some point I've watched and judged and been like, what's going on? And it's like so nice to hear you sitting here and like talking through

Speaker 1 why you made the decisions you made as a mother and a woman and someone who really wanted to stand by her husband and you explaining things

Speaker 1 is so relatable, Catherine. Like so much of what you said today, I think women are going to relate to and they shouldn't feel shame over staying.

Speaker 1 They shouldn't feel shame over whether they got cheated on, then they stayed or they cheated and they left. Like everyone's journey is their journey.

Speaker 1 But I think when you've, you've talked so beautifully about you did what you could do at the time and it was your best.

Speaker 1 And now you're also at a place in your life where you never thought you would be. You just said, I never thought I'd find another person.
I thought I'd be alone. I thought I had all this baggage.

Speaker 1 And turns out there's another chapter and then there will be another chapter and another chapter.

Speaker 1 So I'm just so happy that you trusted me with your story and I'm really excited for everyone to read your book. Thank you.
Thank you for coming on.

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