Lucy Hale: Sober Doesn't Mean Boring (FBF)

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What is up, Daddy Gang?

It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call Her Daddy Daddy, Daddy.

Lucy Hale, welcome to Caller Daddy.

Thank you.

I am so happy that I'm finally meeting you.

I, this is happening.

We're here.

We're here.

It's, I was just saying, your room is exactly how I thought it would make me feel.

Oh, cozy.

This is so great.

Thank you for having me.

Cozy.

You also just told me that your mom is a fan of Caller Daddy, so I'm immediately like, bow down, mama, hail.

Hi, Julie.

Yeah, I was talking to her last night.

She was just like, how's your jet lag?

What are you doing tomorrow?

I was like, I'm actually doing a podcast.

And she goes, which one?

It's like, call her daddy.

She goes, I love call her daddy.

I was like, mom.

She knows all the cool things.

She actually like keeps me young.

I love that for you.

And I love that for me because a mother liking the show is the highest compliment.

So hello, Julie.

You're doing so many things right.

I want to go back to the beginning because I feel like obviously we've seen you on television, but maybe there are people that are like, Where are you from?

I don't know you.

So,

who are you?

Who are you, Lucy?

Let's get into it.

I'm still figuring it out.

Yeah.

So, obviously, you moved to LA super young, but you grew up in Memphis, Tennessee.

I did.

Can you talk to me about like what were you like as a child?

I lived in Tennessee until I was 15

and kind of split a lot of my time with my mom, who was in Memphis, and my dad, who lived in Mississippi.

Very simple upbringing, like two hardworking parents.

My dad's a farmer, my mom was a nurse.

Um, I was

a very um

sensitive child.

I still consider myself a sensitive gal, um, which I now view as like a good thing.

But growing up, you know, you're, I was having, I just felt like very

emotional and very kind of misunderstood, which is, I think, why I

wanted to become an entertainer because I felt like, oh, what an amazing outlet for me to ultimately be anyone other than myself.

So I think,

you know, as a kid, I was having all of these thoughts and I just needed a place to put all these feelings.

And so I started taking singing lessons and acting lessons.

And

my mom and I moved to California when I was 15 and I never left.

So I've been here 19, going on 20 years.

Can you talk a little bit about that of like feeling misunderstood?

Like give me an example.

I think,

you know, whether I was misunderstood or not, who really knows?

But in my little sensitive child brain, I was like, I felt like an alien.

I felt like an alien amongst my friends.

I felt like an alien in my family sometimes.

And I don't, I can't really pinpoint like the moment in my life where that all started happening.

But I do remember having a feeling

at a very young age of being like, I think in this life, like I have myself and we're going to have to get through it by myself.

I don't know where that came from.

I have no idea.

But,

you know, I felt like being artistic and being emotional, I couldn't really find a good friend group growing up.

And I think that that's where that feeling of being misunderstood started.

I do consider myself

really introverted, actually, which is like people are always surprised to say that because of my job, which is like very extroverted, but my job makes me feel really uncomfortable sometimes.

And

I think that

being an actor, it's, I'm hiding behind a veil of something.

Like the last couple years of my life, because of my job and like finding success pretty early on and doing all these things, I didn't get a chance to figure out who I actually was.

And if I did, I didn't really like who I was.

So I was like running away from myself for so long.

Yep.

For so long.

And so

the last couple of years,

I think, and this is to tie it back around, I think I was feeling so misunderstood by a lot of people for so long because I didn't understand myself.

How can other people understand you if you have no fucking idea who you are?

It's so interesting you say that because when I started dating my now fiancé,

I like grew up in Pennsylvania.

I looked at actors like gods and I thought that they had the best lives in the world.

And my fiancé being a producer, like I started to talk to him about the industry more.

And he was like, I have a lot of empathy for actors because what people don't see on the other side of it is like we fall in love with you and your character of like who you play on a certain TV show or whatever it is or in a movie.

But what you guys are dealing with is like you're handed a script that you're told to like get into character of this person and you can really lean in.

But like there's a lack of like autonomy of like

actually having control in a lot of these ways.

So people are falling in love with something that like you tried to bring to life, but it's also not you.

So it's kind of a weird thing of like.

It is weird.

It is weird.

And then also being a part of something that lasted for so long and being a part of that while I was figuring out who I was, I was like, I don't even am I this character or am I me?

Like, and then seeing people people fall in love with this experience and fall in love with that character.

I'm like, well, maybe I should be more like this character because I don't really know who I am.

And I can only obviously speak from my

experience, but I do find that a lot of actors feel similar in the sense of like,

I think we fall into this line of work because we're kind of filling some sort of void.

It's like on some level where...

we're all like a little broken or like a little or a lot insecure.

In my case, I was like, I think this is going to make me feel like I'm whole if all these people like me and I book these jobs and I look a certain way.

And

does it temporarily feel great?

Hell yeah.

I'm not going to lie.

Like it does feel great.

I love my job.

I love certain aspects of it.

But that doesn't fix what's broken in you and it makes it worse.

I was going to say, it's almost like you can like hide even more behind it and also go down a trail of like, oh my God, I can imagine you're so young and you're like, is this my personality?

Like, am I like this?

Like, do I like this type of man?

Like, I was even dressing like the character off camera.

And of course, I'm like, you know, I started that when I was 20 years old.

So.

But still, like, I would be fucked up being like, first, I also want to know because obviously Memphis is so wildly different than Los Angeles.

Yeah.

And so before you move, at what age did your parents get divorced?

I think I was four.

And I have very vivid memories of like the conversation

and somehow knowing at that age that it was a good thing.

Why did you feel that way?

Did you see them fight a lot?

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

It wasn't very calm.

I think there was a lot of chaos in the house.

And as we get older, we start to realize, like, even when you were saying, like, I was introverted, like, I felt misunderstood.

As I've gone through therapy, I'm like, so much of why we are the way we are.

It's before even peer dynamics.

It's like, what was happening in your house?

Well, don't they say that you are who you are between the ages of two and five?

Yeah.

Well, holy crap.

Like, right.

You know, like that was when things really blew up.

And I think at a very young age, that is when like my desire to please everyone started.

Like I just wanted everyone to be happy.

I wanted mom to be happy.

I wanted my dad to be protected.

I've all I've always been like fiercely protective of my dad.

And I think

as a kid, you everything

is personal.

You think everything's your fault.

So you're like, okay, if I just act a certain way, then maybe mommy and daddy will be happy and life will be perfect.

And

I find that a lot of women feel similar to me in the people pleasing.

I think it's, holy moly.

You can do a whole episode on that.

I mean, and undoing it, I'm in like the process of undoing being a people pleaser because it's so hard for my brain to accept that I can be nice and set boundaries.

Because

all of my 20s, I was like, you know what?

If I'm the nicest one, people will like me me more.

And it's like, well, that's just not

getting stuck.

That's an abandonment of self.

So you're just like, I'll just take it and I'll just be quiet on that or whatever.

But then you start to be like, okay, wait, why am I getting taken advantage of like all the time?

Yeah.

And it's difficult to like start to do something and go against something that like you have done your whole life the opposite way.

Yeah, I think at a young age, I just realized

I just wanted people to like me.

I always felt like

life would be fine if, you know, everyone was happy and people just accepted me.

And I'm like, God, that's sad that at a young age, I felt those things.

But even you saying like when you're in your house being like, if I'm the peacemaker, like maybe things will calm down.

Like, I think that's like, it can weave into then like your peer dynamics of like, you're just like, keep the peace.

Everybody like me.

Like, I just want to like be here, be quiet.

Like, don't be afraid.

Exactly.

It's the quiet thing.

But I do think it's really relatable, especially, I think, as women of like wanting to be noticed and seen and heard, and then also feeling deeply insecure when you are being seen and heard because we're basically taught to doubt ourselves.

Like it's different with men.

Like as girls, it's like be polite, sit down, be lady.

Like

it's like, what am I doing it right?

And I think it can create a lot of like division in your brain of like what you want versus like what your natural instinct is, which is like, and then what society has taught us like of how to be.

So I am with you on that, girl.

I vividly, vividly remember a moment in my life.

I was upstairs.

I was with my karaoke machine.

I think I was like singing something from pink.

Love it.

And I remember thinking, my life will be different.

My life is going to be different.

I don't belong here.

Don't you think that's like a normal human instinct though?

That like when you're in such a situation, like I felt that way with my Catholic school upbringing of like so Catholic.

Every Sunday we had to go to church.

We had to do this.

When you're in like a system that is like forcing you to like be a specific way, your brain can't help but be like, what if I just went that way?

Yeah.

But you can't help but be like,

like, that's it.

I'm just completely agree.

I'm just laughing because I love Kelly Clarkson and there's that song breakaway.

I was like, that was the moment.

I'm like, we're getting out of here, baby.

Like, and we did is what's crazy.

Right.

And so this moment, I remember it was like, I was sitting on this like crazy, shaggy carpet we had upstairs and I was like No, we're gonna do some things and of course I didn't know what that meant.

I just intuitively knew that I wanted something special and different for myself.

Dude, I'm dying thinking of you up in your bedroom like and break up.

Also, I thought I was gonna be Kelly Clarkson 2.0.

Didn't we all?

Back to Lucy.

Anyway, back to you.

Okay, so you say you moved to LA when you are 15.

15.

Okay.

And what I read, your mom had to take out her retirement money to get you guys there.

Did you feel like excited, guilty, pressure?

I'm not going to lie.

I felt zero guilt.

But only because

I knew it was going to work out.

I think

as time went on, I did feel a little guilt of what my mom actually sacrificed.

And I often am like, that was truly unhinged that we drove across the country and you,

you know, she was a nurse and she would work nights.

She would drive me to my auditions during the day and sleep in the car.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, she's amazing.

My mom moved back to Tennessee when I was 17 because by then I was doing little jobs here and there, enough to, you know, go spend my money at Forever 21 and have a shitty apartment.

But, but things started moving like relatively quickly when we got here, enough for my my mom to be like, okay.

Yeah.

But it's also really interesting because when I look back at that experience, it

instead of like if I'm completely transparent, instead of thinking of all the amazing things, which I can now like hold so much gratitude and space for that, I look back on that and I think of all the things that were happening behind the scenes and how I was feeling and the things I was dealing with and the things I was running away from and the pressure of

being on this show that was so adored by people, and

so I think it's okay for like to hold space for how amazing it was, but also to know that like that

was very painful and challenging for me to navigate because I think what was going on behind the scenes were things I would have no doubt dealt with whether I lived in Tennessee, Timbuktu, or LA.

I know that because like we talked about, these things happen when you're a tiny baby child, you know?

And so I don't know on what end of the spectrum it would have been on, but

I do know that the success and the notoriety and everything happening really amped up, ramped up the

intense feelings that I was like desperately trying to shove in that.

emotional baggage trunk.

When I hear you saying that too, I feel like, which I

think this is like the beauty of people, people.

And I think it's gotten so much better in the past few years of like finally people starting to actually speak about things that they experience.

Like I think about.

Rob Pattinson and Kristen Stewart for so long not wanting to talk about Twilight and people like because when you have these like beloved projects that we as viewers are just like I love you.

We love it.

This is perfect.

We are obsessed with you girls.

We love you all.

Are you guys all best friends?

Do you guys all love each other?

Is everything perfect?

There's this like idealization of it that I think as you guys, as the characters in it, probably feel this responsibility to like smile through and be like, we love it because you're, you're the image.

Like you, you are almost responsible for keeping all these like young girls dreams alive of how much they loved the show.

And you don't want to be like, I was struggling while I was doing this.

Yeah.

But you're also a human being and that was your reality.

And you're talking obviously about how

there are things going on behind the scenes.

Talk to me.

Yes.

So I will say that I I didn't graduate high school.

And so that's a little context of, you know, I was emancipated at 17.

It's taken me many

years, many breakdowns,

many experiences to realize

what I was actually feeling in those moments.

I think any young female, no matter where you are, what you do, you feel

pressure.

You want to look a certain way.

You want to be a certain weight.

You like, you just want people to accept you and to like you.

You want, not, maybe not everyone.

Maybe there are some healthier

mindset liars.

But, you know, you, you

want attention from guys.

You just want,

you just want to be liked.

Simply put, you want to be liked.

And so

I, before I had even booked, I...

struggled heavily with the eating disorder.

And like looking back now, it's, you know, I look at a picture and I don't think, oh, wow, like, I'm like, oh, I can tell exactly based off of my weight or what was going on, what I was going through at the time.

I was not healthy.

I was not healthy.

And, and it, you know, and it makes me sad almost because obviously no one else knew that I wasn't healthy, but to

to know that young women were watching the show and

and I, of course, I didn't know who I was yet, but I just

want people to know that that's not, yeah,

I was not in a good place.

And so I, you know, I was dealing with the eating stuff and the food stuff, which ultimately

is just feeling completely out of control.

Once again, would have dealt with this no matter what I did for a living, but it's kind of,

you know, I chose an industry that like

really heightened all of that for me.

Yeah, like I have very vivid memories of watching some of the show

and being like disgusted

and being like, well, we got to stop eating.

We got to, and it was just because I

was overwhelmed.

Like, I don't, I'm not sure how I would have done it any differently.

Like, I was doing the best I could.

And, and it did, I think, like, having that kind of control over my body or my weight,

it did make me feel good because I was like, my life is changing and

I don't know where I fit in in the show with these girls.

Like I, at least I have this one thing that I can control.

That's interesting.

You're like, that's the one thing that you knew you were in full control of, even if it was unhealthy and hurting you.

You were like,

I had this false sense of security.

And

I held on to that for a really long time.

Can you talk to me about that?

Because I think that the dynamic of having these beautiful women on set, you, yourself included, we all compare ourselves.

Like, I look back to myself in high school and like the jealousy of like the girl that I was like, oh my God, she's so beautiful.

I want to look like her.

And like, it's just how we are conditioned as women of like, who's the prettiest in the group?

Who's the skinniest?

Who's the this?

Like, how did you handle that with all of you being so gorgeous and you're all staring at each each other?

I think at the time I would have told myself, like,

we're not competitive.

And of course, I'm only speaking from me.

Of course, there was, of course, I felt the pressure not to be prettier or to look better, but to like keep up.

Because I did look at Shay and Troyan and Sasha and Janelle and Ashley and I was like, what the fuck?

These are angels amongst me.

And like, do I fit into that?

There was often, it was often, it was more, and people always wanted to pit us against each other.

And were we all best friends?

No.

Some of us connected, some of us did not.

Did we have rough patches?

Of course.

We were in our fucking 20s.

Of course.

Like, obviously.

But, like, there was always a lot of love.

I feel like.

But yeah, there was a lot of nights where I'm like, okay.

I don't know.

I don't know how to keep up with this.

I don't know if I want to keep up with this.

And it like would eat away at me.

Yeah.

And I don't know how i've actually never talked to them the other girls about

this i don't know if they felt the same way um

i also think that it's different now where women are more supportive of each other i think

it's kind of ingrained in us as women it's like in our dna that like there can only be one yep It's fucking bullshit.

It's so fucking crazy.

And it's not like we've all been conditioned that way.

And it's like, we can all thrive.

We We can all thrive and look amazing and be amazing and be kind and root for each other.

There's enough room.

I just like that sort of mindset of like,

there's not enough for everyone is like the scarcity mindset is very, and I think there was an element of that on the show because realistically, like there were magazine covers.

They were only choosing one.

And it's, that's just human nature.

It wasn't that I didn't want to root for them.

I did.

I love them.

I still love them to this this day.

Like, I'm so proud that we maintained

a level of like, it felt like family, you know?

You don't always vibe with certain family members, but like you're family, right?

Yeah.

But, God, and I see all these like new shows with young women, and I'm, I, I just, I'm like, I know, I know what it probably feels like.

Right.

You were there.

Yeah.

When you were there.

But it's also, that's high school, too.

You know?

No, that's what.

And that was my high school.

It's so crazy.

I, it gets, I get frustrated when

I'm not saying people have to be fighting, but like you can tell, it's like, there's no fucking way on every cast that everyone gets along.

Like, sure, we can glamorize, like, but we love our show.

It's our favorite show.

It's like, babe, if you put five, six, seven girls in a fucking room, like, not everyone's gonna get along.

Yeah, and I think some of the gals really did connect and bond in a big way.

And I, and

I've always found it tricky to connect with people because I, I like to connect.

I like, this is why we're vibing because we're talking about like the things I love to talk about.

And I, I just always,

not only on that show, I've found it trickier to find the people that I want to connect with.

And so I would kind of just sit in my little corner and like live in my own world and tell myself, you know, that I was misunderstood.

But in reality, it's just

certain people connect and certain people don't don't connect.

But I did feel kind of a pressure because I remember sometimes reading online that the fans of the show would notice that I wasn't in pictures with certain people.

And I think that's where these rumors started of like,

they don't like Lucy.

And it really wasn't that.

It was just like

I was marching to the beat of my own drum.

And I didn't, and I knew.

I knew the perception of it and I maybe knew how it was coming across, but I also knew that that I wasn't going to force

something to happen.

Well, it's

very

similar to what you described as your childhood.

Like

you're sitting there feeling misunderstood.

You're very in your own head.

You're alone.

You're emotional, but you're like...

kind of a loner.

You're like, I had maybe like not as many friends and I was kind of like introverted.

That doesn't just fucking change because you get on a cool set with a bunch of cool chicks and you're like, oh my God, we're we're all famous now.

Like you're still the same Lucy in Tennessee.

So it's like that.

I appreciate you saying that because I do think a lot of times people are like, why can't I be a certain way?

Especially when you're in a room with women maybe that are more outgoing or more clicky and connecting.

That's just fucking life.

I think that was it.

Yeah, I think I've had to accept that I just so desperately when I was younger, I wanted to be have a, it wasn't even that I wanted to look differently.

I wanted to have a different personality.

I was like, damn it, why am I not more fun?

I always felt like boring and I felt

like I didn't have a lot to say.

I definitely, because I didn't graduate high school, was like, oh, well, I'm not smart.

People aren't going to listen to me.

I had built like all of these narratives in my head where I was like, this is the truth.

I'm going to stand by it.

Which is why, which I'm sure we'll talk about, which is why.

Your girl wanted to drink, right?

Because I could be fun.

I could be sexy.

I could be hysterical.

I could be a bitch.

I could be whatever I wanted to be.

And my brain shut off.

But like undoing all of these narratives that I believed and stood by for so long has been the biggest challenge of my life.

Harder than giving up drinking.

Harder than my career.

It's like actually rewiring my brain into believing like,

no, I am smart.

I do have shit that's important that I want to say.

I'm worthy.

I am more than the way I look.

Like all of these things that we tell ourselves.

And

I love it.

Now I love like,

I have an addictive personality, but now I'm like driven by this need to, okay, I want to know more about myself.

I want to do more.

I want to be better.

I want to understand.

More and all I can learn.

Yeah.

No, I get what you're saying about like, which is so hard.

And again, I think a lot of women can relate to that of like having something in your head that you believe about yourself.

And if you asked your friend or your family member, they'd be like, what are you you talking about?

Yeah.

We

know.

Like, we, you're so smart, or you're so talented, or you're so this.

What are you talking about?

It's like, we are our own one's enemy.

And if it goes down too far into like a dark hole, like it is just you own it and you believe it.

And it's like, how do you even begin to like unravel that?

Because you have to live your day-to-day life.

You're still going on with your job and your interactions.

And that's what you're broadcasting to the world energetically.

I would make myself feel very small and that my ideas didn't matter.

Because if I walked into a room, everyone else's ideas were more important than mine.

And it had to, I think it had to do with this idea of not feeling

smart or feeling like people didn't care.

Okay.

Okay.

Let's talk about.

You have talked about your journey with sobriety before, and I kind of want to just, I've never talked about alcoholism on Caller Daddy.

I've never talked about struggling with alcohol.

I've never talked about the first.

I'm the first.

I'm the sober.

You're the cherry popper.

You are popping it

right now.

Cherry.

Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Airbnb.

Daddy Gang.

As you guys know, Matt is typically the more romantic one in our relationship.

He did, you know, the amazing proposal that you guys saw.

He basically planned our entire wedding.

Love you, babe.

And he really makes sure that we prioritize our date nights.

And while I love initiative, I decided that it was time for me to step up and pull a little surprise on Matt.

So I ended up planning a trip that I booked at this gorgeous ranch house.

This house was the perfect place for us to unplug and reconnect with each other.

We spent a ton of time in nature.

I know, what a concept.

We went for a few hikes with Bruce and Henry.

I know, what a concept.

And I got to live kind of like my dreams by riding a horse.

I really loved being able though to explore new places and feeling like I actually lived there.

We went to the farmer's market, took whiskey shots at the local bar, and we found cute restaurants for date nights.

Booking a stay on Airbnb was perfect for this trip because we were able to actually have a lot of privacy.

And we even found a house that had a jacuzzi, which, you know, was my favorite part for late nights.

I definitely crushed it with the surprise.

I will say, you're welcome, Matt.

And I cannot wait to plan more.

So watch out, Matt.

I'm coming for your title being the most romantic one, but wait, like still clearly do cute things for me.

But you know, I'm going to participate now too.

Your next great trip starts with a great place to say.

Whether it's a cabin in the woods or a modern loft downtown, Airbnb has a space for your travel story.

Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Columbia Sportswear.

So cold weather is obviously quickly approaching and that means it's time to layer up.

You already think of Columbia Sportswear for winter gear, but their new Amaze Puff jacket, it is a jacket made for us girls, and it's going to be my new go-to all season long.

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Let's go back to the beginning of what age did you like first try alcohol?

In the womb.

No, I'm just kidding.

My mother

gave me a little taste of tequila.

Okay, the first time ever that I tried alcohol?

Yeah.

Maybe when you started drinking.

I mean, I will say the first time I ever had alcohol, I think it's important to talk about because I was probably

12, 13, and I was in Florida on a vacation.

I was like wearing a crop top, halter top thing.

For some reason, I remember the shirt I was wearing.

And we drank green apple pucker, which is a chaser.

Anyway, I remember my very first experience with alcohol was exactly how it was when it ended.

I blacked out at 12.

Blacked out at 12 years old.

I couldn't.

I don't remember what happened.

I got very sick.

I threw up.

And I remember being so distraught when I realized what had happened.

And I was like, oh my God, my mom is going to be so disappointed in me.

Like,

this is, I feel so scared.

Right.

And that's at 12.

So I didn't start regular.

Of course, I drank here and there

from 12 to 18, but

I remember shame every experience after drinking because my drinking was never

normal.

Right.

I never drank normally.

And I mean, literally every time I drank,

I wasn't always sloppy blacking out.

A lot of the time I was, but I was drinking, it was very clear I was drinking to escape something, even at a young age.

And so I would say around like age 18 when my mom moved back to Tennessee is when

it was happening a lot.

But I also, you're like a teenager.

I didn't realize I had a problem

until my early 20s when I'm like, why do I still still want to drink after a night out?

Like, why

can't I just have two glasses of wine?

Why am I thinking about drinking all the time?

Why do I feel so uncomfortable if I'm not drinking when I'm out?

It was like all of these questions.

And

I, uh,

I don't know if I ever talked about this before.

This might be a first.

I went to rehab when I was 23.

I don't even think anyone on the show knew.

And it was my choice too.

That was like a very pivotal moment in my life.

I like wasn't ready to give up drinking, which is why I didn't get sober until I was 32.

But

there was like deep fear of what would happen if I continued acting this way from for a very long time.

And when I tell you, I've tried, I had tried so many different things.

Rehab, outpatient, inpatient, trauma center, therapy, medication,

you name it.

And I, and there was always like a very strong desire to want to stop.

But

I think just being,

I don't know how I would have gotten sober in my 20s in LA on a being successful.

Like, I, I, which is why I have so much empathy for people in the media that are struggling.

Cause I was like, it's so fucking hard.

Yeah.

And I,

you know i i just was in this very sad cycle for all of my 20s um can i okay yeah first of all thank you for sharing that because again it almost goes back to like

there's like the career that you want to uphold and you want to like be remembered for something great.

And that doesn't mean you can't also be open about the struggles you were going through.

But I do think it's difficult for people to be like, Am I allowed to, like, should I say this about myself?

Like, do people want to work with me?

Like, should I even like, I can imagine that goes through your head because I know people don't open up probably for that fucking reason.

There was no way in hell I was going to openly talk about this.

I was so deeply ashamed of myself and my choices and the person I was when I drank.

Yeah.

There was no, it, it is actually mind-blowing.

Like, if you would have told me at that age, you know, 10 years from now, you're going to be doing a podcast and you're going to be talking about being sober and alcoholism, I would have said, you are fucking insane.

No, because these things I'm talking about, I'm only able to speak about them because I have actively worked through and let go of the shame

that was so ingrained in who I was.

I don't feel like I,

and I don't really blame anyone for not helping, you know, the people in my inner circle definitely knew my friends, my family, my suite manager, but no one on the show really knew because I didn't talk about it.

And so

I think there was a lot of maybe concern from people.

And people also were like, how did you maintain a job?

Well, my drinking was very...

It was binge drinking, so I wasn't drinking every day, but when I would drink.

You would drink.

It was like, bye.

That's what I was going to say.

Can can you take me to like what would a typical night or day of drinking be like for you back then so it usually would start and i was because i because my job was very important to me like i

i think maybe only i never let it come

interfere with that because like

i knew if i lost that i would not be okay yeah

It doesn't mean it didn't seep through the cracks sometimes because like, yeah, I did show up to work hungover sometimes.

Yeah, I did.

I can look at pictures of my eyes and I'm like, oh,

you hungover, bitch.

I know what you were up to last night.

Exactly.

And so I think it was maybe clear to people.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, people aren't dumb.

That's the thing about like addicts, alcoholics.

You think you're being so secretive.

So,

and I can, I feel it in a room.

I can, I know.

I know.

And like in a non-judgy way, I'm just like, oh, I think they're struggling.

You know?

And isn't that so interesting and then you probably walked in being like no one knows no one knows and maybe they're like yeah lucy you reek or like lucy you like your eyes are bloodshot or did you sleep but okay a night of yes you know it kind of looked that that was a scary thing is it was a wild card and i was always like well

This could be a really fun because some nights don't I I also like in hindsight I look back I had some great memories drinking super fun

but you never knew what you were gonna get so some nights would be you know

great I'd be home at a decent hour I'd you know chug some water before bed and take some Advil and I'd wake up and feel fine or it would be a night that turned into a Saturday that turned into a Sunday where I'm like

why are there drugs on the table like who are these people?

Why are these people in my house?

Like it would just be all over the place.

And

I think I was also attracting people in my life that were also really struggling.

And I think one thing,

and also, I just think that anyone who's listening to this, I get really emotional.

Lucy, don't cry.

I cry all the time.

You can cry.

I just think

something that really

Something that really I struggled with a lot growing up is like I remember people,

people, some people I worked with some people in my friend group that just thought I was a wild child and thought I just like to party and like oh it's gonna be or like people wouldn't invite me places because they knew how it would get

and I just want to say that

anyone who behaves that way it's clearly coming from a place of pain

and so anyone who may or may not be struggling with this, like, I think it's so important.

And what's really helped me is, like, you have to find the people who get it.

Find people who understand and that you can connect with because you're not fucking alone in that feeling.

And, like, I think I felt that for so much of my life, I was like, it was the misunderstood thing, right?

And then it was like actually being reflected back to me because I was being misunderstood because I was like, I don't just like to chug tequila.

Or I did, but like, but I, but I'm also like in pain.

I'm in pain.

And I also remember vividly

i will not name names but i remember vividly hearing someone

who was in kind of my inner circle at the time saying god sober people are so boring

and i was like

you know what sober people at the time i was like sober people are boring am i boring and i also want to say to anyone who might be struggling I remember Miley Cyrus said one time, she's like, you can say a lot of things about me.

She was like, because I think she's, she, she was talking about sobriety she was like but i am not boring i find some of the most interesting complex beautiful human beings that i know struggle in this way

and that is your gift don't let anyone ever tell you

like your mistakes don't define you like your sensitivity because i find that a lot of sensitive people turn to alcohol, turn to drugs because you're trying to numb down your gifts.

Oh, can you tell?

I could talk about this all day.

No, it's really powerful because I, number one, I feel really,

I have seen it too.

Like I've had people in my life that I'm like, oh my God, like I know you're struggling, but it is hard to be with someone that is blacking out, that is a liability.

I'm not going to lie, it's hard.

But it's, it's obvious they're struggling.

And I think that's the thing that you're right.

People don't have any fucking grace or time for it in moments.

And I think you were clearly struggling.

I guess

you kind of having this like binge moment and then being able to get to work.

Like I relate a lot and you don't even have to be someone that like struggles so much with alcohol to the point where like I've been in moments in my life where like staying out late and partying, nothing ever good comes from it.

And I remember like, no.

I remember the

moments in when I was living in New York, I'd gone through a really bad breakup and I was really struggling with like party culture.

Just felt like I wanted to be a part of it because I felt like I could,

I don't know, I felt like I, I felt really alone at that point in my life.

I didn't, my friends weren't in the city.

I was like, I have no one.

And so I found this group of people that were always partying.

drugs.

And you bond over that.

There is like a, there's, there should be a whole conversation about the people you bond with.

When you're partying.

Yeah.

And so I remember like I had never, I had never done drugs.

I had, because I'd played soccer my whole life.

Like, I'd never done that.

And I remember getting into a phase in New York where, like, I tried drugs.

And, like, I would be at an after party and there were drugs on the table.

And it was also because I'm drinking.

If I was sober, I'm not doing the drugs.

I'm the same way.

Right.

Yeah.

But all of a sudden, you find yourself, and I wonder if you're comfortable talking about that of like how you can also slip into like when you're drunk.

Anything goes, baby.

And anything.

Anything.

You're like, is that cocaine?

Is that a cigarette?

Is that a, what are we doing?

What is, yeah, and what is, who, who is that?

You know?

And you have no idea where it even came from.

Girl.

And you're not going to be smart.

You're just going to take it.

Girl, I.

It's so interesting because I,

yes, just what you said.

Like, I would have never, I would have never thought to do cocaine if I weren't drinking, but, but I think

alcohol was just this gateway into being whoever I wanted to be.

I didn't have to

be sweet.

I could be sloppy.

And yeah, I could do cocaine if I wanted to.

You know what?

I could sleep with that guy if I wanted to and maybe his friend, you know?

It's like,

not that I'm, you know, I look back and I have compassion because I was like, oh, babe.

But, but it was just,

I didn't have an outlet in my regular normal life to like release this wild side and release this bad side.

Because ultimately, like, I still have those elements to me.

Right.

That doesn't go away.

Your shadow side is fucking cool, I think.

And so I've had to learn how to be friends with these things that brought me shame.

Yeah.

And that people, and the other thing was like, I knew people were talking shit about me.

I knew people were

not even spreading rumors.

It was the truth.

And I just tried to cover it up for so long.

And

And that even fueled more drinking.

So it was like, how do I get out of this cycle?

It's going to to kill me.

Literally.

Yeah.

Oh,

well.

Did you ever have like a moment where it was like you're in the hospital and you wake up?

Yeah.

I, you know, I was never,

I never wanted to die, but like the way I was acting,

sometimes I'm like, wow, it's a, I would wake up and be like, well, it's kind of a miracle.

I'm here.

I did have moments where I'd, I would have to go to the hospital and like get IVs.

I,

yeah, you know, it got, it got really dark.

It got, I'm not even gonna lie, it got really dark.

I was very sad.

I was very scared.

I think ultimately I was like, okay, well, we have some options when I, when I got, I'm, I'll be sober.

I'm almost two years sober.

Congratulations.

Thank you.

And, and it feels great.

Like, I feel so stoked to be able to talk about these things and to know that

I'm good.

Like, and I think

there were so many times in my career where I'd wanted to talk about it, but I knew I didn't have a grip on it.

And the thing is, like, this is something I do, I work on every day.

I choose myself every moment of every day because I have to, because I want to be here and I want to live a full life.

Yeah.

But when I decided to get sober at 32,

I was like, okay, we have some options.

I can keep doing what I've been doing for the last 15 years.

There's the risk of something really bad happening.

Or we can get sober and we can actually do it.

Because I would always kind of half-ass do it.

And I truly, there's no other way to say it other than

it was like a spiritual intervention.

Like I literally felt the presence of God, like actually

telling me,

we're not, you don't have another chance.

Like I truly felt it in my bones that like, this is it.

Yeah.

What are we gonna do with it?

And I remember I was flying back from Austin after a whirlwind New Year's Eve trip like shaking.

I was eating a gross ham sandwich like trying just to get food in my stomach because I hadn't eaten in like two days.

I have my dog in my lap.

I was like, okay.

We're gonna do it.

We're gonna do this.

And then I ended up the week I got sober I actually got COVID too.

And I think without that,

I would have made excuses.

I think because I was forced to stay home, I was forced to call these certain people, connect with certain people,

put myself in these rooms and groups of people that truly saved my life.

I think without having COVID, I might not have gotten sober or committed to it.

And I

don't know, man.

Like,

I feel so strong in my path right now.

And I,

I don't know, every day is changes.

Like, I, I was just traveling internationally and like air, airports and airplanes are, are always make me a little edgy.

I'm like, cause that's where I loved to drink, put me in a lounge, put me in a plane.

Right.

I was like, I'm 30,000 feet away from everyone that drives me crazy.

Yeah.

You know, so, so it's, it's really just like, okay, being gentle with myself and really having a plan of,

okay, I know I'm going to be on a couple planes coming up.

How are we going to take care of myself?

Yep.

Being sober is 100% the best thing I've ever done for myself.

It does not mean that it's easy.

I think I have talked about it publicly and I think it's been portrayed as like, life is great.

Life is amazing.

Has it made my life better?

100 million percent.

But it's deeply uncomfortable and it is deeply painful, but it is so

worth it.

Yeah.

Dude, yeah, that's what I think is you're so right.

It's like when you come out and say, like, I'm sober, everyone's like, oh my God, she has it together.

Yeah.

Like, she's great.

And you're like, this is something that you have to wake up every day and make the choice to not have a drink.

To not have a drink.

And it's made me realize like how much I was escaping in other ways too.

Like, your girl will do anything to avoid an uncomfortable feeling.

Uh-huh.

I'm like, let's go.

I'm on Amazon.

Like, I do need this new blender.

I already have 10 blender.

You know know what I'm saying?

Spend money.

Men, like, I have

avoided my shit for a long time by

being with people I didn't really want to be with.

Just like complete avoidance.

Can we talk about that for a minute?

Because something that really hit me and

I

this is like so dark, but I remember

this is, I've never loved you more.

Okay.

So I don't know if I've ever said this on the podcast, but I was in this relationship where

I

was in it for the wrong reasons.

It was so

awful, like just

in ways like emotionally abusive and just like really not healthy.

And I was staying for the wrong reasons, but I remember there would be nights that I knew he would want to have sex

and I did not want to have sex with him.

Yeah.

So before he would come home, I would go into the kitchen and take shots by myself and I would drink so that I could have sex with him.

Yeah.

And

what's so crazy in that moment is like, I knew, like, what the fuck am I doing?

Like, why am I hiding, quickly, drinking, then going and brushing my teeth so he doesn't know so that I'm fucked up so that I can have sex with this person?

Like,

so fucking sad.

But I'm, and I'm thinking about you and I'm like, can you talk to me a little bit about like this sexual aspect of

being

drunk or being on drugs while you're drunk and like being in this situation which is like pretty unsafe like yeah

what sexual situations did you get yourself into that like you'd wake up and be like oh my god i and this is definitely you know i've i've talked about my sobriety story a little but i've never talked about um

that element of it.

And I think it's a really important thing to talk about because I think a lot of people can relate to that, whether you're an alcoholic or not.

Totally.

And also like

being sober and dating and being sexual was like a whole new thing I had to learn because a lot of my most of my relationships and my

the people I had slept with, like I was always fucked up.

I and I felt so

deeply uncomfortable in my body and in my skin.

And

whether you struggle or not, when you drink, you automatically feel a little bit sexier.

You're like, I

look amazing.

Like, I'm ready.

At least I would have like a 10-minute window where I was like, We've got it together.

And then the dark thoughts would roll in.

But I mean, there's definitely been,

I think that's where some of my shame still lies is in

the people I've allowed to

the people I've allowed myself to be with.

And I

know for certain I've

potentially, I don't even know if I want to say that.

I actually know, I maybe I've been taken advantage of.

Not to say that these people,

no, I'm not making excuses for people.

I was gonna say, I've been taken advantage of.

Yes, I was the person drinking, but I there are certain things I don't quite remember.

Um,

but then it's also,

yeah, so I've slept with people I regret sleeping with.

Of course, yeah.

You know?

Yeah.

But

I also think, like, in the relationships I was in,

I really relate to what you're saying about like needing to drink to be physical.

And for me, it wasn't like I wasn't attracted to these men.

I was, but I was so uncomfortable with myself or their perception of me that

it was easier to be in a different state of mind.

When being physical, I have always

I've always considered myself a sexual person

and I always had shame about that until recently.

I think that

I think it's so strange to me that we're given the gift of sex.

Like it's a beautiful,

what?

Like, what do you mean?

Amazing.

Yeah.

It's the most amazing thing in the world.

And we obviously live in a society that shames us for that.

When ultimately,

that's kind of the thing that connects us all, right?

But I think something

that is difficult when you, and I know you're like still working on like unpacking everything that happened, but and that's when like, oh, like we need, we do as women, especially need to get better.

If like you sitting here and just

not being able to fully say, and then like, yeah, you were taken advantage of.

Yeah, it's so interesting how my brain will try to make excuses for

things, and

is it right or wrong?

I don't, I don't know, but it happened, and I think

basically, what I'm trying to say is, like, I don't think these people are bad people.

It's just so, I'm only pausing because I've actually never talked about this element of it before.

Yeah.

And

not even really with my therapists.

This is just like a new top.

This is like a new.

Yeah.

Remember I was talking about the trunk and like the emotional.

I think, wow, we'll be doing a lot of journaling tonight, Alex.

No, it's good.

It's good.

I think.

I appreciate you talking about it.

As women

and as men, like there is so much shame attached to the type of people we've been with.

Were we fucked up?

Like, what actually did happen?

Was it my fault?

Should I have actually, you know?

God, we just live in a world where we're just like all traumatized people, traumatizing people.

Dude, it's, well, what I appreciate about you is like,

there's a level of like survival you have to get to where you're like, you have to move on.

You have to look back at a point of your life and be like, whoa, I'm so happy I'm like not doing those certain things to myself anymore.

But then there's also a moment where you have to be like.

Our body remembers things.

Have you read that book?

The body keeps working.

I haven't read it, but.

It's fucking crazy.

I'm sure there are moments I have had them in my 20s where I woke up and this is so sad.

I remember waking up and being like,

did I have sex last night?

And actually physically like

trying to like feel in my vagina like, did I have sex?

I know.

I can't even tell you.

I can't even tell you how many times I've been like, huh.

And then I'd make excuses.

I'd be like, well, I've kind of always wanted to sleep with him, so I guess it's okay.

Or,

or, you know, just like making excuses or,

but also, like, I've, for so much of my life, I found I would fill this like empty well within myself with validation from men.

So I, I was like, well, if I, if I'm

If I sleep with them, like, I get this validation and

then I'm okay.

And then I feel worthy for a week.

And then I'm, then I need to do it again.

And

I don't know.

It was just a habit I picked up very, very early on of like, if I got the attention from men,

I was okay to show up in the world.

Yep.

Even I think something that's really relatable, and I bet a lot of people are going to connect with also is like, you talked about how when you would drink, you would have this.

you would become the person you thought you wanted to be.

You're outgoing, you're loud.

I can be sassy.

I can fuck.

Like I can be hot.

Like, you can do all these things.

And I, I know people in my life that are like, I'm introverted and I'm a little anxious or I'm shy.

And having a couple drinks, like, I think brings me out of my shell.

And I'm able, but it's like, then there's that line where it's like, you shouldn't need anything to like that is a substance like that to make you feel like you can be yourself because we're not ourselves when we're drinking.

Right.

But then sexually, also, all of us are going to feel way more free having sex if we're fucked up on something.

Yeah.

But it's like,

you don't actually know and you don't feel in tune with your fucking body.

I'm even willing to say that

sex drunk is not enjoyable at all.

Sex with strangers is not enjoyable.

Point blank.

It's just the truth.

Maybe,

and that's just my experience, but that's why like the last two years of, I mean, I was like celibate for a lot of it, but right, but, but I think like

feeling so comfortable in my skin and like learning to love my body in new ways, like being sexual,

like it's still a little uncomfortable

for me.

I'm learning how to be really present and, um,

you know, and choosing the people I want to be intimate with and

Not everyone deserves to touch your body, you know?

Facts, facts.

And like, you can't make that decision as easily when you are fucked up.

No, I'm like, everyone can touch your body.

Right.

You're like, let's go.

Girl, guy, Raw, let's go.

I just appreciate you going there with me and us unpacking the themes of not just being like, oh, that's interesting.

Next.

Well, I mean, that's a testament to you.

You're so good at what you do and you really create.

With all of your guests,

you know the right questions to ask, but you do it all with like a very well because it's like it's your life.

People are like, So talk to me about your fucking drinking problem.

You're like, okay.

So here you're a slut.

Like literally, like, who'd you fuck or?

You're like, oh my god.

People have said shit to me about like

craziest shit.

I'm like, that's rude.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Okay.

No, this is great.

Okay, relationships.

Your relationships.

Yeah.

I had many relationships.

I

don't think I've, I've had not had a relationship

really since I've been sober.

i dated but i but throughout all of the

you know teenager to to now

like my last long-term committed relationship was like six years ago

and it ended i mean we were very we were not compatible with each other at all but um it ended because of my

behavior and like a lack of him not really understanding and not knowing how to be there for me.

We're now,

him and I are now friends and it's, it's nice to, God, it's the best feeling to like reconnect with people in a different place in your life

and i'm finding that's happening a lot to me lately like people i've had embarrassing or shameful experiences with like i've run into them on the street there was someone i ran into in vancouver on the street and it was someone

something happened and i didn't really remember what had happened it was a night And I had always wanted to apologize.

And I randomly ran into him in Vancouver.

And not only did I get to apologize, he was like, Lucy, nothing happened.

So I had like built.

So in my life, I've like built these things up in my head.

I say all that because it's just interesting.

The universe is like, we're going to give you an opportunity to hold yourself accountable and apologize.

And it's like the best thing to be clear-eyed and feeling good and to get to reconnect with people.

When you were in these type of relationships, did a lot of your partners also drink heavily or were you hiding it?

So my very first boyfriend ever that I had for three and a half years when I was a teenager,

I remember him telling me I had a drinking problem.

My boyfriend after that, and he wasn't really a drinker.

My next boyfriend after that,

he also was like, You, this is worrisome.

I'm like, I'm breaking up with you.

Bye.

Me, problems.

You're the problem.

You're the problem.

Bye, babe.

Cut to.

You were right.

You were right.

My boyfriend after that, God, we were, it was the most passionate relationship of my life and the most toxic.

He was a drug addict.

He was an alcoholic.

I learned habits from him.

We were a perfect storm.

But there was also a lot of love there.

That was also

a deeply scary time in my life.

I was like, ooh.

Can you share some of those habits?

Day drinking, drinking a bottle of wine before bed every night.

He,

at that point, I had never done a drug, and that was like when I was like, oh,

I kind of like how that feels.

Yeah, it was a lot of just self-neglect.

And it was like the day drinking thing.

That was when I was like, oh, you can drink the day after?

Huh?

I never really thought about that.

But, but also, you know, those types of relationships are the most exciting.

Like, the most passionate.

Like, whoa.

Like, this person, I think, I'm like, if I were ever to be in a room with him now, it's still one of those people where I would be so,

I'm equal parts terrified of him and attract, like, deeply attracted to him.

It's so crazy.

I had one of those where it was, like, he was definitely into drugs.

And there's like a thrill element of like the

instability.

Like this person does not have their shit together.

And it's like every day is fucking different.

And it's this like exciting rush.

And it's also what you don't realize is it's like uncomfortable fear that like you are thinking is like attraction, but you're also like, this is you're my body telling me like I shouldn't be doing this.

Yeah.

And it's, it's exactly that.

Like my nervous system the whole time I was with him was like, I did not regulate my nervous system for a full year, but I also

loved that because I told you I loved chaos.

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You don't have to answer this, but I'm just thinking, again, because we're kind of tying things, like when you look at your life, you

know, I think sometimes in a positive way, you can be like, oh, that helps it make more sense.

But like

a lot of how we are is because of our family.

Like, does anyone in your family struggle with alcohol also?

Okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

I mean, it's, it's,

I think it's just helpful to say because sometimes people feel really fucking alone and it's like, girl, you're not alone.

This isn't also, I don't know if it helps to be like, it's not your fault.

This is like a genetic thing that like.

Yeah.

That's life.

But it's also interesting to me that,

you know, my sister doesn't struggle with alcohol, but we grew up in the same home.

Obviously, our lives are very different, but

it's just interesting how people latch on to something.

And I think if I would have found cocaine at 16, that would have been my thing.

But alcohol.

What is your thing?

That was my bestie for a long time.

When you said that you went to rehab,

when you got back,

talk to me about like reintegrating after rehab.

And then like, when did you have another drink?

I'm only laughing because.

So before I went into rehab, I was talking to this guy that I was obsessed with.

I stayed in rehab.

I got out.

The day I got home, He flew in to see me.

I picked him up and he asked me to stop at a liquor store for him.

No.

And I remember him getting a bottle of Jack Daniels.

And mind you, I still didn't drink for like three months after that.

So I was like, what?

Talk about not integrating.

Right.

Like, talk about I just had this like spiritual amazing experience.

And this guy who, that was, that, that in itself is, was my life for so long, putting everyone else on a pedestal for so long.

I'm like, why am I taking this guy,

kissing him, and he tastes like Jack Daniels.

Just but I'm just laughing because that was my first memory of getting out of rehab.

Solid.

Yeah.

Damn.

Yeah, crazy.

And then when did you relapse?

Three months after?

Yeah, it was always typically that.

It was like three months after.

I went to Vegas for a

of course I relapse relapse in Vegas

for a a word show.

Because what would happen was I'd I'd be sober for a long time and think,

you know what,

I think I have a really good grip on my alcoholism now.

And I think if I just have rosé,

I think I'm going to be fine.

And you know what?

I'm going to have a rose and a water.

And then maybe I'll have like a little Adderall just to like bring me back down.

And

like the one thing about like alcoholics that I love is like the rules that we, you know, only beer, only wine, only on weekends, only every other week.

But yeah, I'd get stuck in this cycle of I'd be sober for a month or two and then I'd relapse, then a week, then I'd relapse.

And I was like a chronic relapser.

Yeah.

When you talked about that, like New Year's moment when you got on the plane, was there something that happened that was like rock bottom?

I mean, in hindsight, like a lot of things that happened in my life would have been labeled as worse, but I think I was at a point in my life for this New Year's trip where

I knew my drinking career was coming to an end.

And I almost, I think subconsciously, I knew that this New Year's was going to be the last hurrah.

And it certainly was.

But I think

it was so

scary to start drinking one night, to wake up.

like a day and a half later

and have so much blank memory and be like and I remember asking my friend I was like what are we doing tonight for New Year's Eve and he was like it's the first and I was like

what do you mean I was like

what do you mean

what do you mean there's a whole day of my life I don't remember and like blacking out was a very normal thing for me here and there, whatever.

But I'll never for I still like I have a physical reaction reaction to hearing him

say it was the first and I was just like

this can't be my life this can't be my life I refuse to let this be my life anymore and I was so sad I and like it was just more like and nothing really

you know I don't even know if I left the hotel room like nothing technically bad happened, but it was just that feeling of

how did I get here?

I have everything I could ever want

and I'm going to blow it all.

And it's a miracle that I didn't.

Yeah.

I think I did.

I fucked up friendships.

I fucked up relationships.

I hurt my family.

I, you know,

I did lose out on career opportunities, but like,

I talk about guardian angels.

Like, talk about knowing I'm supposed to be here.

Yeah.

And so, you know, I, so

whatever happened in Austin, like something resonated.

It was this feeling of like, maybe let's do,

maybe let's try it a different way.

Uh,

and I did.

And I'm so proud.

I'm so proud that I did that.

Um,

yeah, and I, and I often don't sit back and

relish in the like, whoa, babe, like,

you did it.

You did it.

I I am.

Thank you for sharing that.

I literally got chills because it's like, we, we,

as

humans, are just judgmental.

Like, we either compare ourselves, but like, or we'll judge people because it's actually an insecurity of ours, or we'll judge because we don't understand something.

I appreciate you sharing all this because

it's so fucking hard to talk about something that you

have any amount of shame over and also something that, like, you've, as much as maybe people in your life have talked to you about it or told you, or you've broken up with boyfriends about it, like it's on you.

Like, it's, and, and also, you've dealt with this alone.

So it's like you were going through this alone.

Cause when you woke up, you were alone.

Sure, even if there was a body next to you that you're like, what are you doing here?

Like, you're alone.

And so it's on you to find your way out of it.

That's fucking hard.

But that is the key to life is like

the second you start taking accountability of

i'll just say it from my point of view the second i was like okay why am i in this weird fucking hotel room a day and a half later why am i sad why am i angry it's i have to take accountability of my life yep no one else is gonna save me

And I can't keep blaming other people for my own shit.

It doesn't mean people can't help me, but ultimately all you have is yourself.

Like, you have to fight and advocate for yourself.

I just love that we're talking about that.

It's like, even if people are listening and it's like, it's not alcohol.

It's just like your life, whether you're unhappy, wherever the fuck you are, if you're unhappy about something, like it really is.

It sounds so fucking simple, but it's hard not to look around and try to blame others or blame your circumstances.

It's like there is something so powerful about you sitting on that plane ride and just being like,

yeah, it's got to end.

It's got to end.

Yeah, it's got to change.

Yeah.

And i think that's fucking amazing that you're sitting here today and you clearly now are like again like we said it's not easy it's never gonna be easy no but life is not easy and it's not supposed to be easy that is what we signed up for as human beings

being a human is hard it's hard to navigate yeah we all numb out in some way we all try to escape

but there's something beautiful about not what if we didn't What if we didn't?

What if we were just uncomfortable?

We'll get through it.

can you talk to me about obviously like recovery is not linear like it's an ongoing process in these past two years trying essentially like you're finding a new version of yourself because for so long like you were going off of like certain habits and routines and a lifestyle and now it's all different.

Can you talk to me about like how it's been, things that you've struggled with, things that you're like loving about yourself?

Yeah, I mean, certainly not linear.

And there is no right or wrong way to heal.

You know, there's so much advice out there.

There's so much on the internet of like how to heal.

And I think that's great.

And I think that's when the internet is really beautiful.

But I think ultimately, like, the only person that's going to know what feels good in your body and your mind is yourself.

So for me, it's like I've kind of had to like

block out a lot of the noise and really get quiet with myself and like really figure out what actually makes me feel good.

Because I had to have a moment where I was like, does my career make me feel good?

Luckily it does.

Luckily, because,

God, that would have been a shit show.

It's like, I'm sober and I'm

changing careers.

I'm, yeah, who knows?

What would I have done?

Buck.

What would I have done?

But I, um,

you know, just like, yeah, getting crystal clear on like the friendship.

For me, it's like when you heal, you expect other people to heal with you, but like you're on a different path.

You're on a different journey.

And so certain things don't fit your life anymore.

And so obviously, like, the places I was going and day to day, that shifted a little.

But people won't prepare you that like some friendships don't won't be the same.

That's the hardest thing.

We talk about

romantic breakups all the time, but like friendship breakups are hard.

And so I've had to deal with that a little bit.

And

family dynamics have shifted boundaries

girl

boundaries boundaries you know I was talking about being at peace and how that felt uncomfortable that's really what a lot of what my life has looked like it's like okay

am I am I bored or is this just really nice and like being okay in stillness and not needing to fill my days with stuff just to avoid because what I what I found when I was newly sober was, okay, I'm going to work out three times a day.

I'm going to, you know, read a book.

I'm going to whatever.

I was like, well, why am I filling my days with all of these things?

What if I just didn't?

Right.

What if I just didn't?

And so it's like, I'm in this interesting place now where my relationship to my body and to food and to exercise is like the next thing for me to work on.

I think just like being really gentle with

all of that.

I think that

not to like go back all into this, but I think the eating disorder fueled the alcoholism and they kind of fueled each other.

And so, like, now that I'm sober, it's like, okay, now let's really unpack

this.

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You know, my life is very simple.

They're like, okay.

I'm just a simple girl.

Gal from Tennessee, but you know.

No, but what I mean by that is I find joy in simple moments.

I want to simplify my life.

I'm trying to simplify my life.

My circle is small.

I spend a lot of time with my dogs.

I am on this whole,

this will be for when I come back for part two of the podcast.

We'll talk about spirituality because I do want to say that the spirituality element is what keeps me going and it's brought a lot of clarity to my life of like, oh, but why am I really here?

What is my purpose?

How can I help leave the world a better place?

So it's it's like my priorities have really shifted into

broader scale, I guess.

And I think that that was maybe why I was also drinking is because I felt like I didn't have a purpose.

Yeah.

I love that you just said,

you know, like, it's okay.

Like, is it boredom or is it just like you're just be still?

And I feel like there's so many people that can relate to that moment where you're like trying so hard to just keep moving and keep going and keep doing and going here, here here here and it's like when you're uncomfortable in the silence and being alone with yourself That's the first indicator you got shit to work on shit to work on because there's nothing better than when you are like so super cozy with yourself and you actually would a hundred times over choose yourself to be alone and like not go out and not write literally the best I'm at the point now where I you know, I'm single.

I don't know when this is airing, but as of now I'm single and I have to I have to get a boyfriend in the the next two weeks, Lizzie?

I don't know.

Should we have a dating show?

Fuck, I was going to date.

But my point in saying all that was like, I love my alone time.

I love my life.

I love my schedule.

But I also do, you know, I do want a partner and I want a family.

And

I do have to put myself outside of my comfort zone because it is, it does feel so cozy and safe in this like little world I've built for myself.

But he ain't gonna come knocking on my, on my front door.

Maybe he will.

I was about to say, I love how you're like, when is this coming out?

I'm like, are you, do you have someone in mind?

I'm like, is he?

I do have someone in mind.

But we're not dating.

Okay.

You've gone on dates.

We're supposed to.

We'll see.

We'll see.

And now that I've said it out loud, it's happening.

Well, I don't know.

We'll see.

So you've texted?

A little.

Okay.

And you're going to potentially go.

But this is me putting expectations on something.

No, this is what I do all the time.

I'm like, okay, how is he going to be as a dad?

Like, it's like, no, just like, calm down.

But this is my extremist brain.

Yeah, you know, I get it.

But I also think that I'm at the point now, like, I don't want to casually date.

I'm looking for something specific, and not everyone is looking for that.

I don't know.

We're just trying to manifest that in tomorrow.

Do you have any like dating rules for yourself that you're like, this has to be?

Like, is there anything on the list you're like, this is?

Don't be a raging alcoholic.

Lucy.

You're like, don't,

don't be.

But also, I do love an edge.

No, no, no, no, no, no.

I don't have any like don't, but I think it's more just like this place I'm at in my life,

where I'm at, the woman I've become.

It's not for everyone, and I know that.

But it is for some people.

And so it's more just like

being completely in alignment with someone emotionally, mentally, physically, spiritually.

It's tricky.

It's very tricky to navigate.

And I'm not willing to alter anything.

I will compromise, you know, compromise is a very different thing, but I think

we're not settling anymore.

We're not settling.

No, I made a song out of it.

We're not settling.

And break, go away because we're not gonna settle.

Okay, we don't need an album.

What I love about what you just said, though, is like how great you're now at a place in your life where you are

so

clear on the things that you need for yourself.

And so if someone comes in, you're going to be able to be like, check, check.

Oh, I can compromise.

Why not?

I know.

I know immediately.

Yeah.

Usually.

But before you probably, and as we all go through that, where you're like, you almost become the partner that walks in the door.

You become the guy that's the drug addict.

You're like, oh, I guess I'll just, like, you, when we go, we all go through that where we're so much more like.

We are so much more susceptible to just becoming that relationship.

Being independent of like this is what i bring can you meet me here also and people talk about this all the time a lot of people are

filling a void with the person they choose or the relationship they're in because it's a lot of people settling or a lot of people uh trying to figure out their shit within a relationship and that's not saying you can't you can grow as a couple yeah but i think i'm so grateful that i now feel more whole and can enter into a partnership now because now I know how to treat people because I know how to treat myself.

I can show up for someone.

I can respect someone.

I'm ready to love.

You know.

And I don't, and I wasn't always that way.

Right.

So.

Do you have a type?

Yes.

Physically, no.

Although my friends would be like, you love tall, dark, and handsome.

I love a musician.

Bad boys, Lucy.

But I don't know if that's a lifestyle that's good for me.

I don't know.

But there's something about musically inclined men that really get my heart rate.

I get it.

Just turn on Spotify and listen to a song.

Like, I feel like that,

the touring and the drinking and the light.

It's a lot.

It's a lot.

It's a lot.

It's a lot.

But I do think I would love to end up with a creative of some sort.

I don't really set rules for,

like, I'm not saying, oh, he has to be in the industry or he has to not be in the industry.

I think having that level of understanding, it would be nice to be with someone who gets gets it.

Yeah.

But, type, I'm more of a vibe gal.

I need,

I have a very, like, a specific sense of humor, not needing to be in the spotlight, but quick.

I like, I like going deep with people.

If you can keep up with me in conversations, like that's sexy.

Awareness is the

like, I will drop my panties for that immediately.

Like, a self-aware king.

I, you know, I just, I've, I've been dating for the first time in my life.

And a lot of it is like, these people are not asking me questions.

Why am I the only one asking questions?

Right.

I was talking to someone about this the other day and they were like, the dates I've gone on, I'm getting the point where I'm like, I'm just going to stop.

I've been asking you questions the whole time, not in like a weird interrogative way, but like, I'm asking you questions, being respectful.

Being curious about it,

yeah.

Do you even remember my last name?

Yeah.

Where are we at?

I think it's a universal thing.

And men, I love you.

I do, but I think

I'm always taken aback when someone asks me a question.

And not only that, a good question.

I agree.

That to me, I'm like, oh, to feel seen and heard.

Have you had any bad dates recently?

I've never had any nightmare dates ever,

but I've definitely had one recently where

I just knew immediately.

I was like, oh, no.

No, wait, why?

Why?

Why?

Because it felt like a rehearsed date.

Oh.

It felt like he was saying things that I think I had verbatim said in an interview before.

And I'm like, okay, on one level, that's sweet.

Like, he did his research, but also he wasn't in my industry.

And I always feel a little weird when

it's someone not in my industry because, like, I don't know people's motives.

Oh, my favorite thing, though, is I'm on a specific dating app.

And when you're on this dating app, you can click on someone's name and you know, you go to their Instagram, you know who they are.

If you connect with someone, you're gonna obviously Google who they are.

Of course.

But this has happened a few times where guys act like they don't know what I do for a living or who I am.

And I'm like, okay, you might not have seen my work, but I don't believe that you connected with me and haven't Googled me.

It's you're asking me what I do for a living.

Like, just stop.

That's the crazy thing.

Am I crazy?

Because I'm like, this is really, this is very bizarre.

You're not crazy because what's crazy is social media, everyone has it at this point.

I'm like, I know what your mom's sister's dog is doing right now.

Let's keep it real.

Yeah.

And even if you're not going to bring that up, you're not going to pretend you don't know what the dude does.

It's so silly.

But I think it's like a way of them.

Being like I don't care what you do.

I'm a normal guy who wants you for all the right reasons.

I'm like, yeah, but that is showing me that you want me for all the wrong reasons if you're being phony.

Right.

Like imagine how much harder it is for the guy to be like, Oh, I respect your career.

I respect your career.

This is so cool.

Like, obviously, I don't know if I've watched everything you're in.

Like, what was your favorite project?

Like, yes.

That was like when I went on a guy in New York City, I went on a date, and he was like, Um, what do you do for a living?

And I was like, This is what, well, you're

no, but this was like right before I got

success.

Yes, and I was like, oh, like, I have a podcast, and like, like the number one most successful person.

And at the time, he followed Dave Portnoy, he followed Barcelona, he fought, like, I'm like, you know, you know, thumbs down, dude.

And I'm like, oh, I have a podcast.

He's like, oh, like, what do you talk about?

And I'm like,

meanwhile, you go look at his search history.

He's listening

to every episode.

I just, yeah.

It's no, I agree.

I think that in this dating world with social media, it's better to be upfront.

You don't have to say, like, oh, yeah, like, and go too deep of what you've stalked, but there's a level of like, let's keep it fucking real.

Let's be transparent.

Because then, if not, you're like, this is what you're hiding.

Yeah, exactly.

Okay, if your fans and my fans can take one thing from this interview, what do you want them to take from this?

Fuck.

Where do we begin?

Where do we fuck?

Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay.

One thing?

Yeah, fuck.

That's a lot.

Okay.

I just think, for me, I didn't really have any women.

At least that I had found that were going through similar experiences.

And I know that a lot of the things we talked about today were heavy, heavy hitters and make a lot of people uncomfortable.

Like a lot of people will not and do not want to talk to me about my sobriety or sexual encounters or trauma or whatever.

But

I guess like the one thing is I just, if anyone's listening, like just know that

There's nothing to be afraid of.

There's nothing to be ashamed of.

And you're just, you're not alone.

I think, like, you and I have both mentioned many times during this interview that we've felt alone or misunderstood.

And I think it's just always nice to know that

very simply, you are not.

Yeah.

You are not.

And I think that

I'll end it with this.

I watch very niche documentaries and I read very weird books and just like I'll find something like the other day.

I was looking up crop circles, but the other day I was

googling fingerprints.

I was like,

how fucking amazing is it that there are no two fingerprints ever in the history of ever that are like, if that doesn't tell you everything right there, there is only one you.

There is only ever supposed to be one of you.

And that is so fucking cool to me.

Look at your finger.

Like, yeah.

It's, it's, and so that to me just like wraps up what I'm trying to say is that

life is tricky, baby, but, but, but you're not alone and

things might not make sense, but they will eventually because I felt that for so much of my life where I'm like, what the fuck is happening?

And things eventually find their place.

They do.

Be gentle with yourself.

Be kind.

Please be kind to yourself.

God.

I cannot thank you enough for coming on because like you said, I think it's so important to have conversations that may make people uncomfortable because it's not what we're saying that should make them uncomfortable.

It's because in some way we've been raised to think like showing any weakness and talking about things that you've gone through is a sign of weakness and it's completely the opposite.

You're so fucking strong for sitting here knowing millions of people are gonna listen to this and watch you talking about something that so many people will relate to.

And I think it's just the beginning of people actually realizing like, damn, if she can just talk about this and overcome this and also recognize like it's a struggle.

It's okay.

If you're relapsing, if you're like, it's all, it is all going to happen.

But by talking about shit, that's the most powerful thing.

And the most beautiful thing is, and also thank you for, this was so fun.

This was.

Yeah.

And you just really made me feel safe.

And it was very easy to open up about these things.

Cause I don't always share this with everyone.

And

I do think it is maybe a part of my journey now to talk about these things.

And I hope it resonates, or that something I've said that might wake something up inside someone.

I don't know.

But honestly, thank you so much for having me.

Lucy, thank you so much for coming on Call Her Daddy.

Thank you.

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