955 - Memory (7/28/25)

All I wanna be is in a jumble.

All I wanna be is a jumble.

We've seen basils.

All I

Hello, everybody.

It's Monday, July 28th, and this is your Chapo.

I hope you all enjoyed the substitute teacher.

But everybody, put away your notebooks, take out your pencils.

It's time for a pop quiz.

That's right.

We're wheeling the TV out of the classroom.

And thanks again to our substitute teachers seeking derangements.

But I'm back from vacation, and Felix and I are gonna do this episode today but we got to get into it because last time I was on the show a week ago we talked to Jasper Nathaniel about what's going on in the West Bank and

I guess that was a minor diversion from the horror of what's taking place in Gaza but today unfortunately we have to return to the shocking reality of that which like I feel like you know like this has been going on for almost two years now and there have been so many times where you know i've had to like hit record start talking about this on the show and like continually have to i don't know face a reality that like there there is no bottom to this like it it just the the evil and the horror are beyond comprehension and they're getting worse with every minute and just just for like a frame of reference here i'd just like to talk about like the the the latest chapter in this which is like the the imminent mass starvation and mass intentional starvation of thousands and thousands of people in Gaza right now.

So, just some facts here for just for context here.

The United Nations World Food Program, which is headed by Cindy McCain, of all people, has stated that nearly 100,000 women and children are urgently in need treatment for malnutrition, and that almost a third of people in Gaza currently are not eating for days.

And medical workers say they have run out of many of the key treatments and medicines to treat chronic malnutrition.

The Gaza Health Ministry says that

so far, like over the last couple of weeks, 133 people have died because of malnutrition.

At least 87 of them were babies or children.

A month ago, the number of deaths from starvation during this atrocity stood at 65.

Doctors Without Borders says a quarter of all young children and pregnant or breastfeeding women screened at its clinics in Gaza last week were malnourished.

And then on top of that, nearly 900 people have been killed in the recent weeks while trying to queue for food at the so-called Gaza Humanitarian Foundation aid distribution centers.

And to put on top of that, 85% of Gaza's water and sanitation structures are now, that includes pipelines, wells, and water treatment facilities, are now destroyed and inoperable.

And I think something to keep in mind about acute and severe malnutrition is that, like, after a certain point, just feeding someone does not help.

Like, your organs are in full failure and you need like intensive treatment for weeks to recover from it.

Right.

You need the types of medical facilities that Israel has been attacking non-stop for almost two years now to not kill somebody in the process of renutrition.

I don't know if this was a pretty big case.

I'm sure a few people listening followed it, but the case of that man who I believe was in his 30s or 40s, who had just been, he'd been kept as a,

basically a prisoner by his mom and was

in Boston.

Yeah.

He was something like 45 pounds by the time that they

found him.

And,

you know,

fortunately being in Boston and having world-class medical facilities, they were able to, you know, go through the incredibly strenuous and complex process of, you know, feeding and hydrating this severely undernourished man.

But

think about the same thing,

the same problem from hell medically of feeding people where the last you functioning hospitals

where people could give birth that had you know adequate trauma centers and bird centers have just been blown to fucking smitherends that you know doctors have been repeatedly attacked abducted assassinated and they're killed with their families along with them or or if they haven't been killed had their families murdered in an effort to just demoralize them too much to do anything i don't know how long it will take to get a full accounting of everything

that has been done, just with the

GHF atrocities alone or this campaign, this specific campaign of starvation and murder.

But it is going to include probably thousands, you know, after the fact, after the West decides some acceptable solution that absolves everyone who

now,

as at the time we're recording this, they have decided that this is the moment that they found out.

Yeah.

This is the moment that they found out.

And for the rest of history, they will declare that the moment that we knew,

we put an end to it.

Well, yeah, like this is really what I want to talk about at the beginning of the show because, like, over the last two weeks, two weeks or whatever, it does seem among the savvy and half-savvy sort of mouthpieces of the establishment media, that they have turned some corner where, like, the previous year and a half of unrestrained massacre and slaughter was simply a messy and complicated situation that was ultimately justified by Israel's quote right to defend itself or October 7th.

But there's something about the mass starvation of children who have just been reduced to skeletons that is now too much for them.

And you're seeing in real time a kind of,

I don't know, like a reformatting of the propaganda apparatus to preserve, I mean,

not like in a moral sense, but to preserve future credibility and employment.

And like, I would almost prefer the outright Holocaust denial of people like Brett Stevens than to the people who are now trying to find a way to be like,

this is awful.

It's gone too far.

Like, like when I see like senators and congressmen who just a a week and a half ago had their photo taken with benjamin netanyahu when he visited america now issuing public statements that like israel's got to let aid in like this is a humanitarian catastrophe it's gone too far i really just have to wonder like what like what what shifted here like feel like i'm interested in here like what is it is it just like in the western liberal mind is starvation just simply so ghastly as opposed to just shooting people in the head or blowing them to shreds or burning them alive i mean i i i think it's partly that, you know,

and it reminds me of,

you know, John Dolan has written and spoken extensively

about

things that Western leaders think are harder to justify versus, you know, killing people with bombs or artillery or even small arms.

You know, airstrikes are on the highest scale of acceptability, whereas things like gas are on the lower scale.

And I think think you could probably put starvation there, but I think it's a combination of that.

It's with GHF.

I mean, the GHF thing is just, it is just too indefensible,

except for the most insane people possible, except for people like Betar.

And I also think that, I mean, we've talked about it this episode and just throughout these

last near two years,

that I would assume that U.S.

senators

and congressional reps and people all throughout Western governments that have completely facilitated this every step of the way, there is probably some true number of casualties,

deaths, and

permanent disfigurations and

just life-changing injuries.

There's some true estimate that

is not in the press outside of like some medical

journals that have tried to make an estimate.

And I think they're sort of

trying to position themselves and forestalling that when that does inevitably come out.

That when they may believe that when that number comes out, it will be just impossible to defend with the unusual tricks of the lobby.

Yeah, like I, you know, like I said for like what going on a year now, like the way they've just sort of frozen the casualty, the fatalities at like 50,000.

Now, I guess now it's collected up to 60,000, but like everybody knows that it's in the six figures.

You're talking hundreds of thousands of people who are already dead.

And like I said, now thanks to this engineered starvation, this engineered famine, you're looking at probably five figures of people who are currently alive who are not going to be, even with food.

And like not only that, but like I think they all know that something even worse is coming.

Like I think they know that like, you know, the Gaza humanitarian quote unquote, the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, things like that are an apparatus of Israel's final solution here.

And I think they know what that's going to look like.

And like, I think they're dealing with an American public that has like, you know, put up with this for

going on almost two years now, but is reaching a point where they like, they don't know how to justify it in their minds anymore.

And the traditional organs organs of propaganda are beginning to like i i just want to use a couple examples here of what i'm talking about from the new york times which is i think the most reliable and the most sophisticated of the kind of i don't know like the the the war and like zionist propaganda uh apparatus and the the thing i want to the thing that was most ghastly to me was from the new york times uh jerusalem bureaucrat chief a guy named patrick kingsley this was a headline article from this week it says here it begins, for a year and a half, experts have warned that Israel's failure to plan for a power transition in Gaza would lead to anarchy, making it harder to deliver aid and stymy efforts to defeat Hamas.

A sequence of shootings in Gaza over the weekend, one near Gaza's southern border and another at its northern edge, have highlighted the accuracy of those predictions.

On Saturday, Israeli soldiers opened fire on civilians near a food distribution site run by Israeli-backed private contractors.

On Sunday, Israeli soldiers opened fire on civilians as crowds gathered near a convoy of food trucks sent by the United Nations towards areas controlled by Hamas.

The Israeli military said its soldiers had fired, quote, warning shots to deter people who posed a, quote, threat.

It's that first sentence when he says, when he, and then the headline does this as well, where

they were like, they have to discuss the fact that people are just being gunned down for sport.

by security contractors as they wait for some meager rations to be distributed to them.

But it's the framing of it of saying that all of this is,

experts have been warning that this is a failure, quote, it's a failure of Israel to plan for a power transition in Gaza.

A failure of a lack of planning.

But like, this is obscure.

What you are seeing is the plan.

That is what Israel has planned

in conjunction with our own government.

This is what they have planned, and they are executing that plan right now.

What you are seeing is their plan for a quote post-war power vacuum in Gaza.

The Amalek speech was like not even a week into this.

Yeah.

That is what's so insane about all this.

15, 20 years ago, the thinking was, the optimistic thinking with a lot of people about, you know, living in the most recorded and documented time in human history was that, well, you know, it's so easy to get caught out

now.

You know, if you say you didn't know something,

if some if some leader says that they weren't aware of something, we could easily point to, you know, seven or eight recordings of,

you know, them

indicating their knowledge of whatever thing they're denying from years ago.

You know, in reality,

all, you know, this modern media consumption environment has achieved is just a flattening of all time.

where nothing that happened, if something happened more than like a week ago, it may as well have not have happened It's just so easy to drown things out and for a paper like the New York Times to just completely ignore the words of the Israeli government and

the words of the military

them just

right as this began almost two years ago saying this was their goal the New York Times does not cover anything that an Israeli politician says in Hebrew and just to give an example of that, Netanyahu had some indignant statement that really he addressed the media in English, accusing them of lying about starvation in Gaza and blood-libeling Israel for saying that they're starving children to death.

Over the weekend in Hebrew, he issued a statement to the Israeli public explaining that he had been forced to let in a meager amount of aid, like 100 trucks or something like that.

And forced in the context of that, like, we have to do this because if we don't, we won't be able to continue the war and genocide.

That's what he says for the Israeli public consumption.

And outlets like the New York Times shield the American public entirely from what is said by Israeli politicians and military leaders or just in their media.

And I think what you're, what you're seeing now is like,

you see so much of it is people, like people whose brains are just desperately reaching out to grasp onto something to justify this or to ignore it.

And like, as far as the aid distribution and the you know the gaza holocaust front the line i keep hearing over and over again is that this is necessary because quote hamas would steal all of the aid and like the aid distribution needs to be militarized and it needs to be run by mercenary psychopaths and the israeli military because were it not for that if we just let in all of the aid hamas would steal it what i find so galling and and really, I don't know, grimly amusing about that is that Israel has been claiming that they've been fighting a war on Hamas for like two years now with like the top flight of military technology that this country can furnish with them.

And somehow, after that time, Hamas is still able to steal all of the aid that gets into Gaza.

Come on.

Also, that Israel armed like a bunch of fucking losers and criminals who

were

the ones actually

affiliated with ISIS.

Yes.

Are the ones who are

pilfering all the fucking game.

That's for a completely Wall Street Journal

up EdPS, the leader of that gang.

Yeah, no, I mean, this is exactly what I'm talking about.

That was in the fucking Wall Street Journal, and they were openly talking about how they needed to fund these groups to clear Hamas out.

And now,

yeah, Hamas has been stealing it, but we just can't show you any proof.

I mean, if any other entity in the world, if they lied this fucking much, you wouldn't even bother going to them for comment and like just explore further like the the nature of like this illusory or somewhat fraudulent shift in establishment opinion about what's going on is that like it's similar to the iraq war is that like with power and with like the media on your side you can lie yourself into a war and you can commit

like unrestrained atrocities for a good long period of time.

But the thing is like the ongoing maintenance of sort of consent and the public imagination requires a series and, like, sort of,

I don't know, it requires tending to a series of increasingly insane and unbelievable lies.

And, like, what the thing is, like, that can't go on forever.

And I'm not saying that, like, once people know the truth, everything will be different.

Like, I'm using the example of the Iraq war because like we see a similar effect happen with that, where it's just like everyone in our government and media went along with it for a good four,

maybe five years.

But like,

the maintenance of that illusion broke down at a certain point.

And then there was this shift where it became okay

to sort of like broach the idea that, like, hey, this was a disaster or this was a mistake.

Never that we were like intentionally lied into it, but basically, like, everybody knew that they lied about it.

And like, you know, a million people got killed.

And it was okay for people to acknowledge that it was a failure and that we never should should have done it.

And in reality,

the thing is, I want to talk about accountability in a second and electoral accountability.

There was electoral accountability for that.

And that, like, that's, I think, a main reason Barack Obama was elected president, because the American public had turned against the Iraq war.

And they voted for him because he was opposed to it as it was going on.

And they thought they would be getting a change in power.

Well, what happened is that, like, the leaders may have changed, like, you know, like, but the thing is, like, all the people who ran the Iraq war and and and perpetrated it maintained their exact same positions in government i'm not talking about like dick cheney or donald rumsfeld i'm talking about like the people who ran obama's foreign policy apparatus were not people who were like opposed to the iraq war like brett mcgurk for instance was in the obama administration like the people he put in charge of you know like david petraeus so like There is no electoral accountability if there is not criminal accountability for these people.

In the world after Obama, two out of three three Democratic candidates for president were people who backed the Iraq war.

Kama was the first one, the first one to get the nomination who did not.

Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden.

Like Obama appointed Joe Biden his vice president.

Hillary Clinton, his secretary of state.

Right.

But the difference with Iraq, I think, is that the sort of very pernicious thing about Iraq to me is that

it seemed like even from the onset that it had a mechanism built into it for where,

you know, if you got buyers' remorse, there was a

mistake mechanism built into it where you could retroactively make your support for it.

You could characterize it as a mistake that you made because you were just too gung-ho about protecting America.

Or, you know,

you believe George Bush in the afterglow of 9-11.

With this, there was never any built-in, oh, I made a mistake mechanism because, I mean, I guess it was just A, never assumed that Americans would even

give a shit about Israel policy, much less

reverse their opinions in

a

seismic movement as they have in the last five years.

But we're seeing in real time now, like when you see someone like Dan Goldman or Amy Klobuchar or any of these people trying to to walk it back, those people in the free press, Barry Weiss's fucking rag.

Yeah, being like, like a month ago, a month ago, they were saying there is no starvation happening.

They called it a starvation hoax.

Walking it all, like not even walking it back, but like they're in real time creating the, oh, there was a mistake mechanism in real time.

And that's why it's so uncanny and jarring.

With the Iraq war,

the first thing they said was WMDs.

Well, then, you know, six, seven years later, you could go, oh, I believe that there were WMDs.

And if you were in my position, you know, you wouldn't want to take that chance.

With this, there's really no such thing.

I mean, all you can really say is, oh, either I just signed on to this zombie bipartisan consensus and I thought I would never have to even think about it or address it.

There'd be no constituency in American politics that, you know, demanded me to explain any of this, or my career has been sponsored by

going above and beyond even that by being a even more out and out bloodthirsty psycho who responds to any challenge by claiming anti-Semitism and

the critics desire for dead Jews they thought well up to this point that worked Now, I guess the narrative for this will be what we saw in that New York Times article.

The Israeli government just failed to plan.

They just failed to plan what it would actually be like.

I'll tell you what they are saying.

And, like,

I guess, like, this is the rhetorical move now that they've chosen, as which, as you rightly put it out, they can't go to, hey, like, I just, I believe the president, or this was a mistake.

I was convinced by Joe Biden.

He was too persuasive.

Yeah, yeah.

And this point of view is, of course, given voice by Matt Iglesias, who is like, I think, you know, the pitch-perfect representative of

this sort of form of human being.

And what he said is that, like, you know, he shared the free press article, and he was like, to the doubters and skeptics out there, there has been a lot of crying wolf about Gaza.

But read this article from the free press, which should convince you that now the wolf is here and it's real.

So the idea being is like, up until two weeks ago, anyone who was saying desperately to anyone who would listen that Gaza is on the verge of a man-made and specifically engineered famine, and that thousands are at risk of death as a result of this, was crying wolf.

But then something happened over the last two weeks.

Like they got the good data in.

They got the correct data regarding the price of flour in Gaza.

And they're like, well, now we can rationally conclude that indeed

Gaza is now, you know, experiencing starvation.

And I just like, I want to, I just want to, what I want to know with these people is what I would like to, what I'd like to see them be asked is when exactly did this all become too much for you?

Like, what was the moment where you decided to go, hey, ooh, I supported everything up until this moment, but now it seems like it's gone too far?

Right.

Was it the moment where, you know, you saw the New York Post, and they weren't the first to do this.

There were a lot of Hispanic mouthpieces who did this prior to them, but this was its biggest introduction in the English-speaking world.

was taking that one horrifying photo of that one emaciated child in Gaza and going, well, actually, you know, you saw this kid brought out as an example of the starvation, but he actually has a degenerative disease.

Felix, Felix,

I've seen that so much.

And

when I say, like, like, there have been so many moments over the last like year and a half, two years of this stuff where I felt like I had seen the limit of how sickening human beings can be.

The stuff I've seen from people who are saying that the photos of those emaciated skeletal children are, quote, a hoax, either because the mother or adult holding them looks to be fat or I don't know well-fed and they're like oh they ate all the children's food how come all the adults look healthy and then like they point to the idea that like the kids in question already suffer from like cerebral palsy or muscular dystrophy so it's like oh gee like so they're not they're not really starving to death they're not really like the the the cutting edge of the first people who will succumb to a lack of food in a horrifying way.

They were sick already, so they're not being starved to death.

And oh, look at their parents.

Look at their parents.

They look well-fed.

Looks like they ate all the food.

It's like, gee, like starvation will attack and kill the growing and the elderly before its effects are seen on adults who are not growing.

Their body doesn't need the same level of calories to grow and energy to like literally grow and mature.

So like they're able to withstand, obviously, are with able to withstand the effects of it longer.

I mean, it's not, for instance, a child with cerebral palsy.

It's not even like worth responding to, though.

Because like the people, if you are going that far to say that, then you do on some level know that starvation is happening and you're happy about it.

But you know that you can't publicly say that you're happy.

Speaking Hebrew, you're talking about how happy you are about it and how mad you are that now that the English speaking world is catching wind of this, that you might, this might have to, you might have to like just take, take a little bit, take

one toe in the boot off the neck a little bit.

But for someone like iglesias he probably saw that and thought well i could no that's too hard that's something that people will bring back years and years later to to shove in my face i know

i will start out with the obvious caveat that everyone knows everyone who is was against this from the onset they're annoying the people suffering this they're also annoying so i'll i i i will give a fig leaf to that but unfortunately the annoying people here were right Well, no, he doesn't say the annoying people were right.

He says, like, they were wrong because everything they said was true.

But it's only true now over the last two weeks.

It wasn't true for the previous year and a half.

Right.

They were right by accident because they were saying this the entire time.

And now, you know, just our luck, it actually happened.

And keep in mind,

this is the exact same thing he argued about the war in Iraq, by the way.

Right.

He's like, all the protesters out in the streets marching against this war, all the college students and activist groups, they were merely right yeah by default whereas like i was correct to support it but then like accidentally or through some quirk of fate uh like uh there weren't any wmds and the war turned out to be a disaster and like at some vague ill-defined point it like it became true And but like, whereas it wasn't true before, but when it became true, like when I, the data and the facts and like, you know, the, the, the wonks agree that, like, oh, like, yeah, like, this is, this is credible now.

Then, of course, like, I changed my mind because the facts changed.

This this is the same thing as if in like you know 1945 you were like look

we all know jews are annoying but i got to admit at this point two million probably died yeah and like you know what like to bring up that example like for instance like when i see people who are flatly saying that like those images of just skeletal emaciated children breathing their last breath in a life that they've of which they've literally only experienced pain and suffering, They look at that and they say, it's fake.

It's astute, it's Pallywood.

It's not real.

No one's being starved.

Or they are being starved, but it's because Hamas took their food from them.

And it's Hamas who's killing them.

It's their parents who are killing them.

Or, like, that's not real.

It's a photo from Yemen.

It's exactly like Holocaust denial, like neo-Nazi Holocaust denials who will just be like, yeah, there's no way six million Jews were killed during World War II in the death camps.

But if they were, that's good and appropriate.

Yeah, and that is the same thing for, you know, all genocides in documented history, right?

It didn't happen, but it was good.

With this one, there is kind of a unique aspect in that you could see, you can go to someone's profile, you can go to

someone who

has Israeli and American citizenship, someone of prominence in both worlds, and you can look at their Twitter page.

and you could see them saying, it didn't happen in English and then

in Hebrew, you can watch them go, it sucks that we might have to stop doing this.

Exactly, exactly.

And like, and I'm thinking about this in the context of like, you know, like a shift in the government and elite opinions, or they're like, Kier Stormer now has to say, oh, it's a catastrophe, even though a year ago he said Israel has every right to cut off food, water, and electricity from Gaza.

And it's just like, oh, gee, I can't help but feel partly responsible.

Like, where did this humanitarian catastrophe come from that we now have to desperately do something about?

And the world can't stand this.

And we simply must get aid in.

Gee, how did that situation happen?

Could it be because like we literally let it happen and did everything possible to facilitate it?

And like, you know, for instance, France, like, Macron is now in, you know, hot water with the Israelis because he announced France will recognize, quote, a Palestinian state.

And like, sure, that sounds good.

It sounds like a shift and like things are changing.

But like, really, like, all of, like, what, what Palestinian state?

unless you're going to give them a military, it's functionally meaningless.

Yeah.

It's just a way to

sort of like, it's these half measures to avoid accountability or any true reckoning or any true like end to this horror that's happening.

It's just preemptive, it's a preemptive land acknowledgement.

Yes, exactly.

Yes, exactly.

That's exactly all it fucking is.

And this is, by the way, this is the reason that America isn't even fucking worse.

why we are the worst, why we are the great Satan.

This is why people call us that, is because I can't think of a lot of other places, and I guess you could include England in this.

The Anglo-American Empire is a great place.

The Anglosphere, yes.

Yes.

Usually in history, people who are

doing the genocide or

have assisted as closely and as comprehensively as America, they are aware from the onset of it's going to look bad.

America is the only place where we would do that and then be surprised.

Where someone like Dan Goldman, Congressman from New York, a fervent, psychotic, bloodthirsty Zionist who has said all sorts of things that, if he said them about anyone else, would just be mired in controversy.

Even he is going, ooh, I didn't know it was going to look this bad.

I didn't know there were going to be starving kids, even though

half the cabinet said that they wanted to do that two fucking years ago.

The fact that we can do all this and then be surprised by the outcome, that is what makes us truly below contempt as a country.

Yeah.

And it's like,

I do not possess any special insight into like my immediate judgment that Israel was about to undertake a genocide of which they would kill, starve, or expel every single Palestinian they could with our full consent and help.

The reason I was able to make that judgment is I simply took seriously what the government and military leadership of Israel said, not just after October 7th, but in the years leading up to it.

They're quite open about it.

Like, it's like either you believe them or you don't.

I believe them.

Yeah.

As long as you're talking about like people who, for which, like, I guess I'm kind of like astounded at how their brain works.

Or like, it's just like, it's sort of baffling to me.

Felix,

I would like to talk about the exchange that you had with Tommy Vitor of Pod Slave America the other day, because I think it's really telling in a lot of respects about like this dawning realization among establishment media.

And like, before I get into this, I should be fair to Tommy and the pod safe guys that like they have they have been critical of Biden's handling of this.

They have called for an arms embargo against Israel.

They have said that the Democrats need to break with APAC, but like knowing that makes his response and like the way his brain still processes this information even more baffling to me.

I think, yeah, he's not someone who I disbelieve in his genuine feelings on this and he has talked about this to an audience that like i mean the average democrat is actually much more in line with where we've been for the past you know however many decades you know his platform he is way more powerful and influential than we are so i give him credit right

right there's but there's more of a there's more of a chance for like actual backlash from people either in their social circles or the audience or sponsors um and i think i think think like in that discussion, I don't think it's, I think he's aware of the contradiction, right?

And trying to rebuild the Democratic Party after this contradiction.

I think the reason that he like got mad is that it's embarrassing when that, well, he said something ridiculous.

Yeah.

Because I don't think he thought, I don't think he thought about it is what I'm saying.

And it's embarrassing.

Everyone has had that happen to them at one point in their lives.

And it is like embarrassing when it happens.

For the context, here you replied to something he said the other day.

Well, the point he made, the statement he made was: Tweeting I told you so at people who changed their mind about what's happening in Gaza does nothing to help the kids who are being starved to death.

Welcome people into the tent, build a bigger coalition, and use it to force political change.

Now, and I think the obvious response to that is that, like, if you are referring to regular voters or family members who just watch watch the news and read the newspaper and try to believe what they see, but now can no longer do it.

Like, yes, obviously you should not be scolding and telling those people, I told you so, or trying to like extract some pound of flesh out of them.

But this absolutely does not and cannot apply to the politicians who did this.

And by that, by did this, I mean committed a genocide.

Nor their media sycophants.

The people that are being told, I told you so they are all politicians or media members because most of the people that are now doing that are now being told i told you so they're doing that because they are broadcasting their uh oh i didn't know it was this bad because they uh they either have power or are in the media or something and feel they have to cover their asses I have not seen a lot of instances of normal people choosing this week to go.

As far as normal people, they've either like that has happened, you know, over the first year of this, or they were somehow already there, or, you know, in the extreme minority of voters, they have always been on board and they continue to be so.

A normal person would not take this week.

They would not coordinate with like Stenny Hoyer.

That's what I found so preposterous about it.

There is no like idealized normal person who just now was like, oh, I guess this is bad.

I supported this all along.

No, it is all people like fucking Dan Goldman and Amy Klobuchar.

And like the point you made is that like, in terms of like, we need a big tent and we need a big coalition to like end this war and force political change.

Sure, I understand that.

But this is like this kind of like what is sort of, I don't know, presented as this very savvy, hard-earned political wisdom is really kind of the definition of crackpot realism, in my opinion, because like, how can you have a coalition that includes the same people that, as you pointed out, were either too fucking stupid to see what was happening or just ignored it, or much more likely, that they were the ones doing it themselves.

And now these same people are saying, oh, well, don't impose a purity test on us.

We need to be in the tent as part of the coalition that's going to, as you put it, concoct the solution to the disaster that we've authored.

right i mean this is the same thing as if you went well look at that eichmund is distancing himself from the holocaust he implicitly knows his it's bad don't we kind of need him like there are still a lot of germans who supported the third reich don't we kind of need him

i guess they kind of did that

now now you have the germany you have today but yeah i said that and um

vitor said he says in the short he's like his response to you was in the short term, yes, obviously fucking yes.

You need a political movement now to end the war.

Then vote the shitheads out at the next election.

This is what I found.

Now, now, this, this is really

ridiculous.

Yeah.

Because, well, there's a couple of things here.

Like, one,

like, okay, then vote the shitheads out at the next election.

Like, first of all, a couple of years ago, those exact same shitheads were the people you were telling us to vote for because they had to save democracy from Donald Trump.

We'll leave that aside but like the point you made is like those same shitheads can read your tweets tommy right that's what's i that's why i think he just didn't think about this yeah i i just think all of this was unconscious and that he went oh fuck i said something ridiculous and then he got mad i don't have like i don't know it just i don't see him as like a grand villain in all of this.

I really don't.

But like, I'm just, I'm perplexed.

I'm just like, I don't think he's a villain, but like, I'm just perplexed by like how his mind works its way around something like this because he's like, because he says like there needs to be accountability for the people who, like, what he's, what he's implying here is that there needs to be accountability for the people who supported this genocide.

And like, you know, like I said, to his credit, he has gone to like, you know, while the election was going on, he criticized Biden for this very policy.

But what like, what I can't get my head around is that like accountability for people who are guilty of committing a genocide does not include voting them out of office.

Or at least,

at the very least, it begins with that.

But I would say the accountability for a crime like that is somewhat stiffer.

Yeah.

I think the reason that he

found himself

absolutely realizing that he said something absurd and got upset about it.

is because I think he is trying to reconcile, you know, okay, if we're going to hold the people responsible accountable, who is left?

Yeah.

I have, you know, made my, I've cast my lot with the Democratic Party.

He certainly like cast his lot as a more left liberal member of that party.

But if he does think that, and I think he does, I think he does find this abhorrent, who would be left?

And the answer is there would be like four congressional dems left, three or four, maybe.

And like, I mean, I guess he would say, well, like, if there's only if the, if four people are the only one that passed this test, and like, you know, like, you've, you've windowed it down such that like you don't have a political coalition that can enact change.

But like, what I find perplexing about this is just like they get to a certain point, but then like, there's a corner that they can't turn.

I don't know.

I don't want to like, at this point, we are like just in, we are inventing hypotheticals of things he would say.

I don't know.

Maybe this is misplaced, but

I think it would be good if someone who correctly identified this as a horrific crime and has identified a lot of its perpetrators could

reconcile the inherent contradictions in the party that he is a part of.

Because we've had to do that a little bit.

We supported Bernie Sanders twice and he's fucking disgraced himself on this.

He has absolutely fucking disgraced himself on this And it's cast a black mark on everyone who supported him.

Bernie Sanders to the entire, you know, Democratic Party and Joe Biden.

It's not to the same level, but it is something that you do have to reconcile if you

have spent time supporting any of these people.

AOC too.

I mean, shit, I supported her.

Absolutely.

I supported her on this show.

And like, you know, and Tommy's kind of crash out, like where he gave out the game, is that he got too mad and he immediately was like, have fun throwing blood on AOC's door, but it's good for the Patreon, which is like a little much considering how much more money he makes than us.

Like how many fucking advertisers and like

Soros Foundation money that they have.

Than you.

We have a 99-1 split on the show.

Yeah.

Me personally.

Yeah.

You know, and like, but back to like the AOC thing, because I've said it before, but like, I hold her to a higher standard because I did support her in the past.

And I'm sorry.

Her comments the other week about like defensive weapons for Israel is just another example of like

you've got to like the contradictions here like you can't keep doing this.

Like if you recognize as AOC has

called what Israel is doing a genocide, why would you want to give them weapons of any kind?

Why would you wish to assist them in their ability to defend themselves?

It's also like, hey, all we're doing is starting war after war with every country that surrounds us because we need all these defensive weapons to protect us one of the most insane things i mean

again if that is the case

will you support giving not just iron dome technology let's give fads to russia yeah why not like what will you support that aoc yeah

because we don't need war dead civilians but also it's like it's a question of like once you have in your mind like and i think in good faith come to the conclusion that israel is guilty of enacting a genocide right now and it's going on this minute.

But crucially, could be stopped.

It could be stopped.

It is not complete yet.

Unlike, you know, like the genocides of the past, which are over now.

You can't save those people.

They're dead.

Once you reach that conclusion, like there has to be some follow-up about like, okay, well, then what do we do with American citizens who are currently serving in the IDF?

What do we do with someone like Joe Biden?

and his national security establishment or Anthony Blinken.

Does it change your opinion of the Houthis?

Because, like, I don't say this to be edgy or like, you know, out there or whatever, but like, really, over the last couple of weeks or whatever, I've thought to myself on several occasions, you know what?

I really don't have a problem with the United States sending tons and tons of American-made bombs to Israel.

What I do have a problem with is the delivery method.

Because, like, right now, they're arriving on shipping pallets when I'd prefer to have them arrive being dropped from an airplane.

Yeah.

What she said flies in the face of everything that we know about

what happens when America gives this technology to other countries.

We don't go around and go, okay, who needs it the most?

And what happens when we give this to countries like fucking Saudi Arabia, who,

you know, has received fucking boatloads of defensive technology from us?

They act more aggressively because A, they have missile defense.

It's harder for people to fight back against them, especially when, as is often the case with Saudi Arabia and Israel, they are fighting against a much poorer enemy.

But also, just the implicit guarantee that comes with providing a client state or any other country who has good money to spend with advanced American missile defense or any defensive technology is that it is an implicit guarantee that we will continue helping them out because we don't want that falling into someone else's hands.

That is where there is no differentiation on whether technology is offensive or defensive.

It's already a fucking idiotic, uh, an idiotic delineation.

But for what is the actual utility of an arm sale like that, it isn't just, you know, Party B pays party A, party A delivers materials.

It is an implicit guarantee that you've got another like 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years of our weight, our financial weight, our cultural weight, our

that will strong arm whatever, whatever state, whatever actor is giving them problems because they have received that technology and we don't want anyone but the approved clients having it.

And, you know, like, again, like if like in the spirit of a big tent and, you know, not pushing potential allies out of the coalition, like, you know, I'll give credit to the Pad Sage guys for their stance on this.

But I would just say that like, I would encourage them to take it a little bit further because the reality is like one of the main reasons we are in this situation right now is because that accountability that you were rightly desiring of was never applied to the people who supported the Iraq war.

That's why Joe Biden became president.

You know, like, and if you if it had been like anyone who voted to support the Iraq war can never serve in elected office again, again, or can, or like,

will not be supported by us, will not be hosted on our show, we will not be giving them money, we will not be encouraging other people to vote for them.

And then, like, to go another step further, yes, an arms embargo now, cut off diplomatic support and military aid through Israel.

But there has to be a realization that this country is not our ally.

They are the enemy of humanity, and they need to be stopped.

And they need to be stopped by heretofore, the only people who are showing interest in fighting them are Ansar Allah and Hamas.

Yeah.

So, I mean, we could give them weapons, but like, or if we don't want to do that, we can do it ourselves.

The only weapons shipment that AOC could vote for that would actually save lives, that would actually be defensive technology, yes, would be weapons sent to Ansar Allah.

If she wants to save lives, she could fucking do that.

And, you know, like, yes,

vote the shitheads out of office.

I am with you on that.

But, like, I don't think you can be like Joe Biden and Anthony Blinken supported a genocide, but they're out of office now and they've been held accountable.

They haven't.

And then it's not just them.

It's an entire ecosystem.

It's an entire hierarchy of people who work for the government, work for the national security state, who work for many lobbying groups and nonprofit organizations that are part of this network of support for genocide.

And they need need to be

dismantled, stemmed, root to stem.

Yeah, I would like to see, as a mainstream democratic position, like I think this is the bare minimum, a criminal investigation and prosecutions of everyone who was involved with GHF.

That's a good place to start because it's like the, it's, it's the most shocking and egregious example.

Yeah.

Just like, like I said, like, not just mass murder, but like a carefully planned and executed strategy of extermination.

Extremely premeditated.

I do not think it is an extreme position to say that we cannot say this is a democratic or functional society and have those people walk free and buy houses and pick up new jobs and update their LinkedIn.

No, those people, if we're going to have ADX prisons, those people belong in them.

for the rest of their fucking lives.

At least.

Here's another position I'd like to see someone stake out i don't want american dual israeli american citizens who served in this i current idf i don't want them coming back to america i don't want them to be citizens of this country well i think uh

more people to fill out adx i i do think i don't know i i don't want to inflict them on the rest of the world no they can stay in israel is what i'm saying i mean yeah i don't know um well i guess i'm kind of doing it now where um i could go well we could say we're letting them in, but then we'll put them in prison.

Yeah, but I've already said, I've already said it, though.

So I'm doing the thing.

I'm doing the thing.

Yeah, you're doing the Tommy thing.

Yeah.

So see how easy it is?

Yeah,

it's tough.

That's what I was saying.

Yeah, it's tough.

It's all from the discourse game.

Before I turn from the, you know, like I said from last week, before I turn from the atrocity to farce, I would like to just say, though, like, I think the question needs to be asked is that, like, anyone still supporting this horror show or finding ways to excuse it or pretend it's not happening, I don't think it's like too big a question or like a too big an existential or metaphysical question to ask.

Like, in some sense, have they like completely ceased to be human beings in any meaningful sense?

And, like, I guess, like, in my darker moments, like, I'm just like, well, of course they're human beings.

This is what fucking people are like.

But, like, they cease to be human in any kind of spiritual or moral sense that matters, that separates us or like exalts us as like, I don't know, special or God's creatures or something like that.

And I just like, I really do worry, though, that like we may be too far around the bend and that we have like, as a society, like almost totally surrendered our humanity to this project.

Yeah.

And like similar to malnutrition and starvation, like I think it passes a terminal point where I don't think like it can be helped anymore.

And I and I worry about that a lot.

Yeah.

I mean, I completely agree.

Where do you go from here?

I don't really know.

We are going to brush up against these people too,

in our daily lives for the rest of our lives.

You will encounter, whether you know it or not, someone who, yeah, shared that picture and said, well, he had a degenerative disease.

Someone who said that, you know, October 7th or whatever the fuck justifies all of this.

What will that mean for your life, for theirs,

for the people that come after us?

I don't know.

One more thing.

I did see an interview with Anthony Blinken the other week where, like, you know, he was asked by Christine Amanpura, I think, like, in some way, to account for himself.

And he was like,

could you have not done more to bring this war to a close or end it?

He literally said, this is how fucked, this is the contempt that they have for you.

This is the contempt that they have for humanity.

He said, maybe the war would have ended sooner if all the protesters had just protested and asked Hamas to release the hostages and surrender.

So it's like, I had to support the, like, I could have ended this genocide if it weren't for those college students.

I mean, what do you either, like...

Because

I know on some level this shames them.

And I know on some level, I mean, I know it seems like they're incapable of shame.

And maybe they don't feel it about themselves personally, but they understand that if not shame, that it's a liability.

Right, right.

And like, and that angers them, and they lash out at the people who that they have.

There is no person that they have more contempt for than someone with a moral compass who turns out to be right.

There's no one they hate more than an idealist who is proven correct.

Yeah.

I mean,

I am kind of speechless at that,

but it is, it does show that he at least thinks it's a professional failure.

Yeah.

And that he spent nights contemplating who he can lay the blame on.

And in typical Blinken fashion, it's fucking idiotic.

I mean, that is the thing that is lost with Blinken.

It's not that he was so much a canny operator who acted cynically in line with his ideology.

Blinken is a non-entity.

He can fool you because he has the pedigree and the look of someone who is substantial.

And he plays the blues.

So Tikuchi man.

I mean, if that did not,

I don't know how that didn't cause congressional hearings.

If I was a senator, I would have gone, does anyone hear this?

Does anyone see that?

What is what the fuck is this?

But that is, I mean, that is also a tell that he did that.

What's worse about him is that he is just, he's a vacant non-entity, just some, not even a striver, like the children, the child of strivers who has just coasted through fucking life and arrived here now

and

similar to a lot of people, was angry at the fact that the issue of Palestine was not a dead issue, that it was something he had to contend with.

And just out of sheer, out of sheer passiveness, he did all of this.

I'm not so sure it's passivity because I think if he does have a North Star or something approaching a moral center, it is the Zionist project for him and his family.

I don't like...

I mean, he was like this in college.

He was writing op-eds in the Harvard Crimson like years ago about how, you know, how stupid Palestine, the people who support Palestine are.

Oh, no, yeah, no.

I think he's like a virulent racist, but I think it's more like anger that this was an issue he had to contend with.

He thought he could negotiate like AUKUS type things that he could put on his ledger for the rest of his life.

And I don't, yes, he is a Zionist, but I don't think...

I think he was more annoyed that he had to show up to work than he was excited to exterminate people, though out of his just innate lifelong passivity and by the way writing right you're right he's probably not happy that all these people got exterminated but like he's more upset that he has to deal with it exactly exactly and him writing those op-eds in college that is part of his that's him doing the bare minimum he didn't do he did that because He wanted to work for the State Department.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Exactly.

He's someone who has done the bare minimum his entire life and continues to do so.

And that, yeah, that is sort of like the one of the most upsetting things about his tenure.

That he could have just, you didn't have to come here to play the blues.

You could have just done it on your own time.

Just like in

the waning minutes of the show of this episode, I would like to, like I said,

I'd like to refocus back on the domestic sphere to the ongoing farce of Donald Trump and the Jeffrey Epstein issue, which does not seem to be going away for him, even as he appears to be on the verge of pardoning Jelaine Maxwell.

Let me say that again.

He has already granted some sort of qualified immunity to her.

Yeah,

the DOGA has offered,

I think it's conditional immunity.

Yeah, conditional immunity.

Yeah, sorry, not qualified immunity.

But like, yeah, her lawyers are already working on a pardon.

And he made a statement just the other day where he says, I'm allowed to give her a pardon.

Nobody's approached me with it.

Nobody's asked me about it.

It's in the news about that, that aspect of it.

But right now, it would be inappropriate to talk about.

Oh,

just today, just today,

he had probably one of the funniest things he said about

he said, quote, I never had the privilege of going to his island.

And I did turn it down, but a lot of people in Palm Beach were invited to his island.

Uh, in one of my very good moments, I turned it down, I didn't want to go to his island.

I never had the privilege of going to Epstein Island.

And he said, I turned it down,

he's like, Yeah, I was offered, Jesus Christ.

Did you see that clip, by the way, of he was in Scotland, like just oh my god, but the playing the cat moonlight from cats

looking looking spherical as ever, and he was just, you know, know, fatly waddling around

as his catty just drop a golf ball for him.

Yeah, like, and this, I, I will, this is now, this is just, I will, this, I'll probably think about this on my deathbed.

It was the sky news like shitheads.

Uh,

and them being Scottish made this clip so much funnier.

Are they joining us there in Scotland's Mr.

President?

They start out by going, Are you gonna join Scotland?

And he just sort of like gestures fatly like,

and then they go, Do you think you're being dragged down by the Epstein sandal?

And he just water, he just turns 180 degrees, gets back into the golf cart, and then they start blaring memories from cats.

Bumping the song Moonlight from Cats.

Mr.

Trump, can you escape the Jeffrey Epstein crisis?

Maybe that's why we heard this.

What's that song?

I think that's very famous though.

It's from a music oak.

Yeah.

I thought it was memories.

Memories.

Okay, I think it was memories.

That is so perfect.

That's the entire Trump thing.

All of musicals, golf,

responding horribly.

Felix to a question about all these girls that you assaulted.

We were talking about this yesterday, but when the Donald Trump birthday poem for Epstein came out the other week, which is like

the fact that we now have three poems written to Jeffrey Epstein by Bill Clinton, Donald Trump, and Leon Black that are all sound the same and are all bone-chilling.

Yeah.

They're all like, and then you brought this up to me the other day that Don Jr.

was just like,

my dad would never doodle.

And then, of course, people found like dozens and dozens of doodles that he's done and auctioned off to various charities.

But then he was like, do we really think Donald Trump would write a poem?

And I'm just like, well, yes, obviously.

He's a huge queen.

Yeah.

JD Vance tried that too.

And it's like, oh, yeah, what's next?

He likes musical.

Oh, do you think he really knows the word enigma?

Yeah, he's stupid.

He's too stupid to be a pedophile.

But all those, all those poems,

and I haven't seen Leon Black's.

I'm kind of afraid to, but it's, they are all like

things that like Russ and Marty find in episode seven.

on the talk in the title residency they're fucking they all are like you're you're a great guy you still have that childlike wonder because of the secret things that we do together in our great friendship.

Yeah.

Age is an enigma.

And like,

in Bill Clinton's poem, he was just like, you have a childlike wonder about the world.

Donald Trump's is weird because it's written like a

2012 weird Twitter tweet.

Like it's in voice dialogue format.

Yeah.

It's so weird.

Like, I don't think he knows what a poem, or maybe that is.

That's what I always hear this term autofiction, not knowing what it is.

Is that autofiction?

I think so.

I don't know.

But it is like they, they're, they're all like the most horrifying things ever.

Again, in a semi-functioning society, like Bill Clinton would be, Marshalls would be kicking in his door right now.

But I don't know.

This entire thing is kind of incredible because I

pessimistically thought that what I thought would happen back in 2019 had happened, that this case had been turned into a meme and therefore made

it functionally meaningless.

Yeah, the second I saw those like,

say it was like Daily Wire the Blaze or some bullshit place like that.

It was like Epstein didn't kill himself.

We made Epstein didn't kill himself ugly Christmas sweaters.

My heart just sank because I didn't expect like the system to go down, but I thought like.

This is so sordid and awful.

And like there were probably almost certainly like girls were murdered.

This is so just shockingly evil that, like, someone somewhere maybe will pay for this.

We'll pay for something they did finally.

But the moment I saw that, it was like, no, this is just, this will just get melted and blended into the just American consciousness and will become partly a QAnon thing and it'll become partly like a crank coated thing, but nothing will ever happen.

And of course, Trump will co-opt it.

And he did.

But then it, the fact that it's like coming back to bite him is kind of,

i i don't i don't expect him to go to it's a host by your own retard situation yeah

yeah it's sort of it's what's amazing about it is to me is and i i taught i my internet went out a lot on the seeking derangements episode but i did say it is being hosted by your own petard because in the first trump administration they did have a lot of like adult chaperones And some of those adult chaperones were people like Steve Mnuchin or H.R.

McMaster or John Kelly, people who could do like the competent management of capital and warfare and diplomacy.

I feel like some of them,

but they also had Bill Barr.

And Bill Barr is not like, he's not like James Baker.

He's not like some diplomatic knife fighter.

He's not some like...

you know, god.

But he's just his dad the goal of Dev Seen the Job at Dog.

Yeah.

And his dad also wrote a criticizing sci-fi

sci-fi novel about sexual slavery.

But Bill Barr, you know, if he has a soul at all, it died like 58 years ago.

He understands the implicit, you know, thing of, oh, if I come up in this, you'll just, you know, shred those files, right?

You don't even have to say it to him.

That's the job he's done his entire life.

But when you hire Dan Bongino and fucking

Pete Cash and Pete Hegseth.

Yeah, Felix, the point you know about this is like the first Trump administration had enough people around him who all knew how bad he was, all knew how evil and stupid he was to protect him.

But, like, Hegzeth, Cash, Bongino, uh, fucking Pam Bondi, his press secretaries, they all, they're just like, they all love him and think he's like a brilliant, beautiful person whose soul is pure and he wants what's best for everyone.

Only stupid ass JD knows that he's never, he's already become a father figure, he's never turning on him now.

Um,

like,

exactly, yeah, yeah,

he's not losing another cash cash uh i just i wish i i wish i was like a fly on the wall for that when cash and dan realized when they were like oh my god i think mr trump did something horrible i'm i'm turning in my cpd pills cash went cross-eyed he was like what

yeah

like think about dan bongino put like putting on kid rock and like crying oh with the bullet he's just sobbing in his car He's in the files.

He's in the files.

Oh my fucking shit.

He's the full questions that don't have any answers.

Like, I love how Dan and Cash were like, this is, this will ruin our credibility.

And it's like, I always bring things back to Master of the Senate because that used to mean like, oh, you were a general in World War II and, you know, you had like a 20-year career as a diplomat or you served like eight terms of the Senate, you know, all this institutionalist credibility.

But with Dan and Cash, they're like, oh my God, we're not going to be able to sell CBD chocolate milk to our idiot listeners when we get back to podcasting.

All the credibility we built up on our live streams.

It's gone.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's astonishing.

And like, Felix, I'm not even following this thing that they like.

It's like in the exact repeat of the first Trump administration, right?

With the Russiagate stuff.

And like, the thing was, that was very effective because they made it about Democrats and like they neutralized that issue, which was like, you know, half of it was bullshit to begin with.

The fact that they're doing this again now

and they're being like, we're going to impeach Barack Obama for doing a coup in Trump's first administration.

But like the thing about that is that

this time around, it is not working.

Yeah, because I mean...

Imagine Russia Gate if Donald Trump was, when he was running in 2016, he was like, the entire point of my campaign is that Hillary like hung out with Lev Barnas.

Yeah.

And then all the Russia gates stuff happened.

I don't think their counterattacks would have been quite so effective.

I mean, Trump, it wasn't so much a Trump signature issue as it was a huge issue of his surrogates that they loved and that he encouraged.

But I will note, like, his campaign absolutely took advantage of the entire Epstein issue this time around.

But I will note every time that someone personally asked him about it, he seemed like very uneasy.

Oh, very cagey.

Like when that Fox News interview, when they were like, Are you going to declassify the JFK files?

And he was like, Yeah.

And he's like, The 9-11 files, yep, the Epstein files.

And he was like, Yeah.

But you know, I'd be a little careful with that because there's a lot of phony stuff out there about that.

How was that not?

I mean, I am amazed by anyone who, like, this is the time they chose to ride the Trump train.

Yeah, because I'll just say this: no one can say they didn't fucking warn you.

There's no one president for one term.

he was

president when this happened i know he was

i know i don't get it i don't get how they're like how could this happen to me like andrew schultz all these guys all these guys who like all the podcast guys i andrew schultz said something like i don't see why people are yelling at me i didn't vote for this yes you did

Yes, you fucking did because he did it.

He told you he was going to do it.

And you know, like, we talked about this the other week where it's just like, as this becomes like even more like a glaring, glaring reality of just like the unresolved nature of this whole Epstein saga and how deeply it implicates like two presidents and like quite a bit more than that.

On both the left and right, like among the Democrats and the Republicans, like they're like, you know, like the more savvy media people, there seems to be this kind of walking back about like, let's not get too far ahead of ourselves about, like, you know, the implications of this, you know, like, you know, like, if he wasn't running a blackmail ring, he wasn't a massage agent.

And let's be honest, clear here, whatever immunity or pardon they give to Jelaine Maxwell will be in exchange for her testimony that it was only Bill Clinton and not Donald Trump or Israel behind all this.

Yeah, they're going to be, she's going to say, like, John Legend was there.

Yeah.

It was John Legend, Pete Davidson, Harry Sassan, Matt Griffith.

It was all of them.

Donald Trump came in.

uh donald trump was carrying two browning high powered he actually did all the stuff from the movie sound of freedom donald trump was wearing a sneaking suit and he slit jeffrey epstein's throat uh but but what i say is like back to this kind of like too smart by half kind of like you know let's not get too over our let's let's not get too carried away with like in the implications of this conspiracy you know because like with the evidence shows that like yes him and jelaine like you know trafficked and abused teenage girls, like, sometimes in, you know, the presence of his very powerful, famous friends, like Prince Andrew or Alan Dershowitz or Bill Clinton or Donald Trump, for that matter.

But, like, you know, like, let's not get too conspiratorial about it.

I will just note that as part of Jelaine's, actually, she's bringing a case to the Supreme Court, apparently, about that basically arguing that her conviction should be overturned or that she should be pardoned.

I forget the specifics of it, but what

the claim her lawyers are advancing is because that she is covered by the plea agreement, the same plea agreement that Jeffrey Epstein made with former Trump labor secretary Alexander Acosta when he went to prison in 2017 in Florida.

And that plea deal immunized him and, quote, co-conspirators from prosecution for that, as part of that plea deal.

So, like, as far as I know, they may have a good legal case that she should be went out of prison, that she is covered.

But, like,

what I mean here what i'm getting at is that like i have never heard from anyone a satisfactory explanation or even acknowledgement of the the fact that alexander acosta is on public record as saying of epstein i couldn't touch him he quote he belonged to intelligence we've we've talked about this on the show for years what does you think that means yeah

Yeah.

Who is he referring to?

Maybe he means like a really smart guy.

Yeah.

It was Stephen Hawking.

He was the.

Stephen Hawking's friend.

Stephen's Hawking's friend.

He's going to invent some wormhole thing.

I don't know what it is.

No, I mean, it's a coincidence he said that.

Ahud Barak went to his house like 78 fucking times that the second this went into circulation that Massad was like, actually, no, we've never heard of him.

Never.

I mean, I just,

I don't really see

what other intelligence, I mean, the CIA, sure.

I mean, there were,

goddamn, I always forget this guy's name, but the guy during the 1980s who did this, but just for Craig Spence.

Craig Spence did a sort of version of this whole blackmail scheme,

but for probably American intelligence during the Reagan and Bush administrations.

Craig Spence, who also committed suicide under less weird, but kind of weird circumstances.

But I mean, the thing with this whole Israeli intelligence angle, obviously, I do think he was involved heavily in the middle of the day.

I mean, just look at Delaney's father.

Look at Robert Maxwell.

But this is an interesting thing.

Look up who attended Robert Maxwell's funeral.

And the thing, right, the thing.

Because it included

several former heads of the Israeli state and Mossad.

They said at his, I think at or after his funeral, the world will never never know all the things he did for Israel.

But I mean, there's just tons of circumstantial evidence for this.

I will say it is interesting.

All the people who like stake their credibility on Trump and Trump like uncovering the Epstein stuff, who are now like tugging their collars.

Truanon talked about this, how they're trying to...

the first like juke they tried to pull off was try to make it sound like oh israel is bringing this stuff up again because they're mad at trump right

yeah

Yeah.

Which, I don't know.

Good, good luck, fellas.

Yeah.

I don't know how this ends.

I mean,

I would love to see how JD contends with this because he's been doing a great job.

I mean, honestly, you know, like when this shit first started, like, I was sort of taken aback by like the anger I was seeing from like MAGA accounts.

But like, that's social media.

It's all phantoms and illusions.

I think it is kind of overrated that this is going to cause some sort of schism between Trump and his base.

I think they are going to compartmentalize it or just actively start congratulating him for it.

You know, like,

they're going to get into like a feb, it's aphemophilia, not pedophilia.

And like, you know, I mean, there's girls wanting to be there.

And hey, it's not my daughter.

The most craven people were already going for that.

I kind of agree with you.

I don't think it will be like, I don't think like no one will support him, but I do, I think it means like, well, A, part of his strength this time

electorally was low propensity of voters.

And I think that this is poison for them as

most of the other stuff in the admin has been talking about like the MAGA people, not the low

information voters, the people who are committed like MAGA citizens.

But I do also think, though, that it will see that base shrinking.

I don't think that means that like, you know.

a fifth of them become Democrats.

I just think it means like this is their Obama moment.

This is them checking out of politics.

yeah definitely uh just just one last thing on this uh i wasn't i wasn't aware of this but uh felix you've talked about we talked leon black of course founder of apollo global management the guy who paid chef epstein 158 million dollars for tax advice yeah what also

billable hours on that look like he paid say he also uh paid 62 million dollars for immunity in uh to settle an epstein suit um

in which he admitted that the money he gave epstein funded his operations operations.

His son, Leon Black's son, Benjamin Black, was nominated just

now by Donald Trump.

I mean, his confirmation hearing was supposed to be.

I'm fucking kidding.

Okay, his son, Benjamin Black, Leon Black's son, was nominated by Donald Trump to be the chief executive officer of the United States International Development Finance Corporation.

Now, his confirmation hearing was scheduled to

happen.

at the beginning of this month, July 8th.

But the Senate stalled on bringing that nomination to a full vote.

And then also keep in mind, Mike Johnson sent everyone home for the summer to avoid having any vote on having any Epstein-related stuff come up to a vote, probably because he knows that, like, for the first time in a long time, like

there's enough of their voters that will be mad at them for the way they're going to vote on any Epstein-related on any bill that's designed to get any kind of disclosure as this.

They're just like, nope, we're going home for the summer.

Oh, my God.

Of course, I mean, I don't know why I'm sure, but it just

Benjamin fucking black.

One of Leon Black's like shadow children.

Oh, my God.

Yes.

I'm looking up.

He sort of looks like if Casey Affleck was evil, like really evil, you know, not just like a, oh, no, actually, he kind of looks like Blinken more.

A little bit.

Yeah, he's a little bit of a Blinken look.

Oh, my God.

Well,

Leon Black is such a fucking ogre.

Like, there are so many, like, creepy finance guys involved involved in that whole thing like glenn dubin buying his wife from epstein is obviously horror that entire saga is horrifying it does sort of make you look back into the rumors that we've heard about how donald trump basically bought melania yeah and some people say he epstein introduced them but leon black is like He's definitely one of the most evil-looking guys I've ever seen.

Like, he does, he looks like what he is, which is a rapist ogre.

It's going to be entertaining to see.

Cause, like, I luckily, I don't think this issue is going away anytime soon.

And I don't think that their ham-fisted efforts to just be like,

you should be talking about the Obama-Russia gate scandal like in 2025 is really going to get

or any of their like, hey, next week, everybody, we're telling you the truth about aliens.

That's right.

I like it because they're real.

There's going to be like, hey, we're bringing out one of the Greys.

He's going to give a press conference.

She's going to communicate with you telepathically.

like the moment they brought out the grays it was like oh he like ate an infant's spine like it was an oyster

i my my favorite my favorite thing he did was by and by the way it's hilarious that they're bringing out obamagate the most boring like this is where this is where it's so boring compared to like the absolutely lurid and horrifying details of the Epstein case.

This is Bruce and Nellie Orr.

That's what that's who

That's they're from Obama Gate the most boring story ever My favorite thing was the thing he the first thing he tried where he was like he couldn't even remember the name of the place in Texas that girls camp and he was like

You're talking about this now after those dead bitches died in the fucking

You know, I I said I've said this before about Trump and people got mad at me but I said like if there's one thing I have a perverse respect for Donald Trump about, it's that, like, you'll never catch him like leaving teddy bears on a street corner or something.

Oh, yeah.

Like,

whenever people die in like a horrible natural disaster, like Trump's obvious open contempt for them, I've always found sort of perversely amusing because he's just like, by definition, anyone who dies in a flood that way is a loser.

Oh, my God.

Yeah.

I've never heard him say that, but I know he's not.

But you know that's what he's thinking.

Like, he's just like, yeah,

it's really disrespectful of you to ask me about my lifelong friendship with the most notorious sex trafficker in American history when these beautiful girls at camp, I don't know, Camp Krusty died or something.

He thought that entire thing, he was like, can't they make some more?

When you heard Camp Mystic, it instantly left his ears.

He was like, yeah, fucking right.

Like I would ever send my kids there.

Yeah.

Well, yeah, it'll, it'll, you know,

it bears watching.

i'm i'll be interested to see what what where this story is going i'm just interested to see what he's gonna say next you know like you know so someone said this earlier today but like it really does suck that donald trump is unfortunately like imperiling the lives of i don't know everyone on this planet and not just the funniest fictional character who's ever existed but like I

am I'm looking forward to where this story goes and what he says and does next to try to deal with it.

I didn't have the privileges.

Fucking insane.

I didn't have the privilege.

I turned it down.

Like, what is, I don't, is he just going to like bring a guy with a loudspeaker around, like Eric Adams, but the guy's going to have memories?

Yeah, I think so.

Maybe something from Phantom.

I don't know.

Let's switch it up.

All right.

Well, I think we're going to close it out for today's show.

Just two quick things before we exit.

I know I've been ending every show with a reminder or two about our comic book anthology, which is still in pre-sales, but it's like will only be so until August 1st.

So this is your really the vanishing waning hours for your chance to pre-order the first volume of our comic book anthology.

And I'd like to encourage you to do that.

But

I don't want to leave it like that

because I don't want to.

make an appeal to you to spend your money, especially given what we've talked about on this episode, without highlighting an organization that I think you should also give money to as well.

It's called the Samir Project, and it's a donations-based aid initiative that is led by Palestinians.

And

there are people on the ground in Gaza that are, you know, basically working to keep people alive.

And

I would have no hesitation whatsoever recommending that if you're looking for a source to just like do whatever you can, like any amount of money that you're able to part with.

And I know like charity in the face of this kind of the horror that we talked about on this show, like can sometimes seem, it can sometimes be a little embarrassing or I don't know, like you think like, does this really help or whatever?

But like what I will say is that like you are able to do something.

And like, I would just encourage you to share the links to donate to the projects organized by the Samir project.

Give them money directly.

It's just, it's something you can do when like your mind is trying to process the absolute evil that you see every day and the like the continued perpetration of evil and just the desecration of human life and just like our shared humanity in such a profound way.

I think this is like a small but meaningful way to fight back against that or to like to preserve.

some shred of humanity like for yourself or just like feel like you are because you are doing something and it does count it really does so i will i will include the links for the Samir project.

They have a link tree.

They have a Twitter account.

They're an organization that has been recommended to me by people that I trust, people who have been on the show before.

And I think I would have no hesitation or compunction to make a plea to you to consider giving money to any one of the projects that this organization is spearheading right now by Palestinians in Gaza at this moment.

It's meaningful and

it will make a difference in the life of someone right now.

So that is how I'm going to end today's show.

Yeah, it has it's been vouched by people who

we trust and

would know if an organization like this is actually helping people.

And

thinking and reading and hearing about all

these horrific people and institutions and what it means for us and the rest of our lives and this country, it is

like Will said, it can feel kind of harrowing and donating to a charity, you know, in the face of that,

you may ask yourself if it's enough or if it's doing anything.

But

we can't tell you at the very least that doing this, it will be the difference between, you know, a family having something to eat or not.

And that is infinitely more than just

sort of stewing in impotence or rage, as understandable as that is.

So, yeah.

Links for that will be included in the show description for today's episode.

That does it for today's episode.

Till next time, everybody.

Bye-bye.

You'll understand

what happens

is

look

on

you.