#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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Hi, everyone.

Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer.

I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.
Today we are diving into career transformation with Gary Berman. Gary is a recruiter, career coach and Japan talent market expert who has spent 25 years helping professionals navigate change.
But his own journey wasn't a straight line. Gary hitchhiked across North America, dropped out of college two times, built a global business, and burned out before finally finding his true calling.
In this two-part series, we'll explore how he discovered his passion for coaching, the seven rules of career clarity, and the harsh realities of Japan's talent market,

including ageism and the fear of change. Whether you're rethinking your career,

hiring talent, or just wondering what's next, this series will change the way you see work.

Let's get started. So now you are a coach in addition to being a headhunter.
Yes. I started just doing recruiting 23 years ago and people would come to see me and I would have these amazing mid-career professionals come to see me to talk about potential job opportunities.
I was selling them job opportunities and very accomplished professionals. They would come, we'd sit down either in my office or over a cup of coffee or lunch.
And I would say, what do you want to do with the rest of your career? And they would just look at me and say, what do you have for me? They didn't have a vision or an idea or a mission for what they wanted to do, they were still 20 years into their careers,

just opportunity seekers looking for the highest salary or the best company to work for, but not having a kind of internalized thoughts and vision for what they want to do other than ambition. And so it wasn't until 10 years into my recruiting experience that I wrote what became Seven Steps to Career Clarity, which is a seven steps process for figuring those things out.
And I realized that many of the people never did the work on their careers because they're so busy working in their careers. And so I wanted to share that knowledge, what I've learned from talking to so many people about their careers, but also the things that I've been through and the kind of thinking around finding your way and finding your path and finding work that you love.
And they're amazing people.

They're not flawed people.

They've just followed the model of great school,

great company, continual advancement.

And some people will, I studied accounting,

so I have to be a CPA.

Or I studied law, so I have to be a lawyer.

And so having someone that can work with them and say, I get that, but what would you really like to do? And help them think a little bit differently and help them make change. So the people I work with, they're thinking about changing jobs.
They're thinking about changing careers, like a complete redo of their career. And some of the people I coach, they're ambitious and they just want to move up in their company.
And that's okay, too. There's nothing wrong with that.
But just helping people think a little bit deeper about their lives than I just have to follow this path. Yeah, like I said, a lot of us are conditioned by our environment.
By the way, I studied accounting as my first major. So naturally, I became a CPA certified public accountant.
But the truth is, I didn't enjoy the world, so I left the practice.

We all start off following a certain path, whether it's because of societal expectations, family pressure, or financial goals. Not necessarily chasing success, but just meeting financial responsibilities, supporting a family, paying a mortgage, keeping life stable.
And over time, it's easy to just stay in that job. I mean, if you're making six or even seven figures, it's a really, really good income.
And for some people, the more they earn, the harder it becomes to leave. The comfort zone gets too comfortable.
So even when they start thinking about change, actually making a move feels almost impossible.

Yes.

Tell us more about your seven rules of career clarity. Give us the full framework.
How do these seven rules, seven steps, help people find real and sustainable clarity for their decision and direction in life?

Yeah, so we talked up until now, we've talked a lot about our story, things that happened to us in the past that provide us with some clarity about what we can do in the future.

And so the seven step process starts with your story, looking at the past to find clues for your future. But it also talks to some really basic stuff.
And what I've done with the seven steps process and the ebook is distilled all of the fundamentals of thinking about your career. So you start with looking at your past and then you do the mission, vision, values,

which I call values, mission, vision,

because values is where you start.

You think about what your dream job is.

And when I talk to people about dream jobs,

I say that you pick two or think of two.

And one is the dream job.

If you have no limitations, could be anything. You could be president, you could be an astronaut.
What would that thing be? And then think about a practical dream job. And then you look at what's out there, the pathway to your dream job and how to get there.
And one thing that what I do, it's a little bit different than some of these other thoughts

about is you look at your strengths and weaknesses.

And there's certain schools of thought that say, don't worry about your weaknesses, just

focus on your strengths.

And you may have heard that along the way.

It's like align with your strengths, don't sweat your weaknesses.

But for a lot of people, their weaknesses hold them back.

So I help people understand, are there any weaknesses that you have

that are holding you back and are they things that you could work on? Pretty basic stuff. The thing that's fun is other than the dream jobs is identifying companies and jobs you'd like to do.
And that's another thing where people who are caught on a path or going down the path without really giving it a lot of thought is people discover new possibilities and new things and new places and new things they could do that they didn't have the chance to because they didn't go through this process. And then another thing, I've been here in Tokyo for 25 years and I've built up a network, partly because I'm a recruiter.
You have a network to be an effective recruiter, but also because I enjoy connecting with people. And I think it's really important for people to get out of their bubble and establish a professional and personal network in the place that they live.
So we talk about networking. And then the last step is action.
Nothing happens without taking action. And so I encourage people to figure out what the most important actions you could take.
So it's a very simple process, but I've distilled it down to 25 pages. So those are the seven steps.
And then if I may add, the other thing that I noticed in my recruitment practice is that people are not, they go to university and like you studied accounting, everything there is to know about accounting. But the career management and career development components are not taught in university.
And people don't get the toolkit they need to accelerate their career growth. And so I put together an online course called the Career Kaizen course, which is 24 topics about career development that if you learn about them and master them over time, you'll see greater acceleration in your career growth.
Hopefully by then you have a clear idea of where you want to go. You don't want to just go rock it off in the wrong direction.
But I help people with the tools that it takes to grow their careers. Career isn't really a science or an art that you can formally study.
Because, let's be honest,

professors and researchers don't even change jobs themselves. Why would they study something like career change? If you try searching for academic papers on the subject, you won't find much.
But what does exist is a wealth of skills, wisdom on managing, developing, and navigating careers. And these skills don't just come from career studies.
They pull from leadership, economics, psychology, finance, and other areas of social science. Some of these insights are research-driven, some are teachable, and of course, they can be learned with the right guidance.
That's why I see career intelligence, which is understanding how to adapt and make strategic career moves, becoming more and more relevant. It's also one of the reasons I started this podcast show in the very first place because most of us weren't taught how to navigate career change.
Especially not in a world with uncertainty is now the norm, not the exception. Gary, I remember you once mentioned that Japan is the hottest recruitment market in the world.
Are you referring to recruiters trying to hire the best talent? Or are you talking about job applicants and career opportunities? What exactly makes Japan's recruitment market so competitive? I'd love to paint your brain on this. Okay, thank you for asking.
Yeah, so it's considered globally to be the hardest market in the world to recruit talent. One thing to keep in mind is my focus is on bilingual professionals

in Japan. The majority of my clients are international firms looking to hire people

locally to help them grow in this market. But just overall, the working population is shrinking.
There's a generally risk, people are risk averse. And I'm always hesitant to talk in broad generalizations, really depends on the individual.
But there's the risk averseness level is higher here than in other markets. So changing jobs is there's some fear around changing jobs.
There's some fear around working for international firms that are more likely to do restructuring or org changes or layoffs. But it's the challenge for the employers.
The employers have a hard time finding the right people to do the role that they're looking for. And so the recruitment market here, the fees for professional recruitment services are the highest in the world.
So I'll have clients come from Singapore or Hong Kong or North America or Europe, and they're accustomed to paying fees that are much lower than what the standard fees are in this market and they have no choice because the way it is it's just a really tough market to get people to change jobs and that's just the way it's been and it's been that way for 23 years that I've been in recruitment in Tokyo and it just it hasn't changed and you would think with the development of technologies it'd be easier to identify people or assess people and nothing has fundamentally changed about recruiting talent in this market. It all comes down to, not just technology.
Sure, you can use LinkedIn

or other platforms to identify and reach out to talent. But at the end of the day, especially in

Asia, there is a very strong cultural layer that technology alone cannot bridge. As someone who's

Thank you. There is a very strong cultural layer that technology alone cannot bridge.

As someone who is also Asian, I understand that certain values like trust, stability, and loyalty play a huge role in career decisions. Even if technology helps find the right person, it is the human connections that actually convince them to make a move.
And that's where foreign firms often struggle. They don't always grasp the nuances of why candidates hesitate,

why they stay in their conference songs,

or how deep cultural values influence career decisions.

That's where you come in.

You are the bridge between recruiters and talent.

From what I see, you're not just matching jobs with candidates.

You're hand-holding both sides and guiding them through the process. And it makes sense because you are naturally good at connecting with people,

understanding different perspectives, and communicating across cultures. And human touch, that human touch and trust, those two things are so vital.
And changing jobs is a huge deal. It's a big decision.
You can't just push people around to take a job or because they match the job description. It's a very complex, I don't know a good word for that, it's a process.
It's a process of attracting, assessing, and getting people to say yes to decide to change jobs. And it's harder here.
It's hard everywhere, but it seems to be harder here. But most definitely the human touch and the trust factor is the driving force.
And technology has yet to be able to do that, to have a human touch and develop trust that's real. We all use tools.
We use all the tools, but it hasn't replaced the human touch and the trust factor. Yeah, especially in Japan.
Yes. Yeah.
Now, for the last question. Japan is famous for many things, many good things.
Yet one of them is its aging population.

That's a major factor when it comes to career changes, risk-taking, and mindset shifts. At the same time, recruiters are actively searching for talent.
talent. There's a demand.
but with an aging workforce, how does that dynamic play out in Japan's recruitment market today? What are you seeing firsthand? How is this shaping hiring trends and opportunities? So one of the biggest challenges and frustrations that I have as a recruiter is discrimination. And it's discrimination of all kinds.
So age, sex, race, anything that can be discriminated for or against

plays into the recruitment process. And the legal regulations around discrimination are looser than they are in my home country of the United States.
So I mentioned I had my own company in the U.S. and I was very aware of what I

could and couldn't do in a job description or in an interview or even considering who I would hire and how I would structure the role. There's more flexibility here and there's more openness about discrimination and particularly so with ageism.
And ageism is a very tough, very complicated, very difficult topic. But as I'm aging, I'm now in a zone where people are discriminated against based on their age.
People are being forced into retirement at too early of an age.

At the same time, the working population is shrinking. So the labor practices aren't adapting as quickly as the population is aging.
And so I get a lot of people who will come to me in their 50s who are facing forced retirement at 60 and saying, Gary, I have a lot left in me. I want to be productive.
I want to keep working at a high level and get rewarded for it. But a lot of companies have policies that when you turn 60, you can stay at the company as a contractor at 30 to 40% of what you were previously paid, even though you have 30 years of experience and you're wise and you're, you have a lot to offer.
So age, ageism is a topic that's going to be more and more prominent in the next, from now on. And it's not going to go away.
And there's some interesting thought leaders on that topic. But I have a front row seat on discrimination every day.
And I have to say, not to blow my horn or pat myself on the back, but I do push back on my clients. And I have walked away from clients that are discriminatory at the very roots of how they operate their HR function.
And there are things that, for example, asking about current salary or salary history. It's illegal in 25 states in the United States and in the EU.
And it's a very common practice here that when someone applies for the job the question is how much are you making now and it's not illegal um but it's discriminatory so academic studies have shown that it's discriminatory in the u.s particularly against women and people of color who may have started out at a low salary and that

follows them throughout their careers so it's become an issue and it we're not yet there in japan in terms of changes happening but ageism in particular is a real tough one. That's the end on this two-part series with Gary Berman.
We've broken down the seven rules of career clarity and tackled the realities of Japan's talent market where experienced professionals face ageism

and companies struggle to adapt to change.

The hiring landscape isn't evolving fast enough,

but that doesn't mean you have to stay stuck.

Careers success is no longer about following the old playbook. It's about rewriting your own.
When change is the law of life, make your own law of change. Thank you so much for joining us today.
If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media.

I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host.