#219 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part One

Speaker 1 Hi everyone, welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer.

Speaker 1 I'm Viz Chen,

Speaker 1 your ambitious human host.

Speaker 1 Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Speaker 1 How do I even begin to introduce our first guest from Belgium who has Moroccan roots?

Speaker 1 Her name is CM L. Kawakibi.

Speaker 1 She is a Moroccan immigrant, a burnout and bankruptcy survivor,

Speaker 1 a parliamentarian, a champion of diversity and inclusion. She's also the creator of Woman Leaders OS

Speaker 1 and a woman's leadership coach.

Speaker 1 She is all these and more.

Speaker 1 Beyond these identities,

Speaker 1 What truly impresses me are the experiences that have shaped these transformations.

Speaker 1 Some people thrive in politics, others in stability.

Speaker 1 Seahem thrives in adversity.

Speaker 1 She describes herself as more than resilient.

Speaker 1 She is anti-fragile.

Speaker 1 I see her as someone who has learned over time to turn adversity into an advantage,

Speaker 1 it's not an inborn talent. Rather, it's something nurtured and developed.

Speaker 1 How?

Speaker 1 Let's find out.

Speaker 1 Hello, hello. Yes, I'm here.

Speaker 1 Thank you. See HEM has over 20 years of experience across both the private and public sectors, along with a wealth of personal experiences.
That's so much we can talk about today.

Speaker 1 Before that, could you give us an overview of your journey through the key milestones of your life and career? Then we'll explore different elements in more detail. All right.

Speaker 1 What an opening. That's quite a story, right?

Speaker 1 So for the people listening, my name is Sihem.

Speaker 1 I was born in 86 to Moroccan immigrants in Belgium. I was raised there, studied there, worked there.

Speaker 1 In the past 20 years, I was an entrepreneur, actually five-time founder, former member of parliament.

Speaker 1 And yeah, actually, I have to just be very honest, as a young woman of color, I did face a lot of adversity.

Speaker 1 And my milestone started there, I think, because I found a way through education hard work and luck to transform adversity into a sort of resilience.

Speaker 1 My experience really sparked for me a super deep desire to turn these societal hurdles into driving force for change. So my milestone is there the non-profit work.

Speaker 1 I founded, designed, implemented award-winning empowerment programs, education programs for youth and women.

Speaker 1 But simultaneously, I did enter the entrepreneurial world, co-founded several firms, especially focused on next-gen, inclusion and diversity. Yeah.

Speaker 1 That was like the first 15 years and then five years ago, I entered politics as a member of parliament. And that changed really everything, but for the worse.

Speaker 1 Where entrepreneurship is a positive sum game, I can assure you politics is a zero-sum game. It became this toxic work environment and yeah.

Speaker 1 A couple of years ago, three, four years ago, I went through a very difficult burnout. Period of burnout, diagnosed PTSD.
PTSD.

Speaker 1 So it forced me to slow down. Journey slowing down, what is a privilege today, but you can slow down.
I healed, started pivoting.

Speaker 1 And actually, I really went from being burnt out, confused, overwhelmed, even bankrupt to now being back in the best shape of my life, physically, mentally.

Speaker 1 I'm resilient, but actually more than resilient. I love to say I'm anti-fragile.
I really find strength in adversity and

Speaker 1 in a career that I'm more proud of than ever. So I can proudly say that that I'm today, I'm a skin in the game consultant.

Speaker 1 Impact and innovation is my thing at the intersection of Pitball, Prosperity Planet. And actually, it's about converting SDGs into tangible results.

Speaker 1 And besides consulting, I love coaching hard-forming women because we can relate. And I think that's also the way we met, Vince.

Speaker 1 Yes, we met. through common friends and explored common topics, which is one of the reasons why I really wanted to interview you.
You have so much knowledge and real experience to share.

Speaker 1 As I mentioned in the show notes, I don't sell the success stories of my guests.

Speaker 1 They are obviously successful in their own way and in their own space.

Speaker 1 But what makes this podcast special is the real stories, the lived experiences experiences which sometimes aren't very pleasant.

Speaker 1 You mentioned mental health, which is undoubtedly a hot topic in today's world.

Speaker 1 Honestly, in a world as complex and challenging as ours,

Speaker 1 who can truly say they are perfectly mentally healthy.

Speaker 1 We all have to deal with different kinds of stress and burnout

Speaker 1 so let's stop here let's talk about mental health

Speaker 1 if I understood you correctly is this something that stems from your years in politics or doesn't go further back

Speaker 1 maybe to your childhood adolescence or work life in the private sector

Speaker 1 please share more about the challenges you faced.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I love the question again, because like you said, mental health is something a lot of people deal with today.

Speaker 1 It's not only about measuring mental health and having more assessments and having more people going to therapy or talking about it.

Speaker 1 It's really an issue that in these difficult times where everything is a little bit confusing, where we have a lack of leadership as well, a lack of sense of belonging sometimes, that the things that are happening in the world also just weigh on people.

Speaker 1 And for me, politics was maybe ignited something that was, of course, leads to something from a young age.

Speaker 1 And of course, as a child, okay, but it's the last four years that have been transformational.

Speaker 1 Like I said, I was always on top of my game, going like a high-speed train. I had this very short and long-term goals, high enterprise, accomplishment.

Speaker 1 And then when life takes an unexpected turn, For me, in just one day, I went from doing very well to hitting rock bottom.

Speaker 1 And that confusion, stress, anxiety, but also the rejection that came with it had such a huge impact on my mental health, life and career that of course, when you slow down and dig deeper and do the work, yeah, of course, it's connected with who is Seaham, who was Seaham when she was like this eight-year-old child and then in her teenager time what led Seaham to this, yeah, to this time of confusion.

Speaker 1 So for me, for example, when everything happened to me a couple of years ago, like really the big clack, the doors slammed, shut in my face, I really tried to solve the situation with coping mechanisms.

Speaker 1 I knew, but it made things worse. So this really led to life-changing questions.
It also led to zero self-belief and confidence. And you mentioned success.
For me, I personalize myself with success.

Speaker 1 But when you personalize yourself with your success, you do the same with your failures. Without success, without my work, without external validation and recognition, I felt like nothing.

Speaker 1 I felt a nobody. And this comes from someone whose work was empowering people until they could say I am somebody.
So this was really so painful. The rejection was, I couldn't get a grasp on

Speaker 1 my life again. So I really had to put in a lot of work after I realized that rock bottom can become fertile ground and it became fertile ground for me.

Speaker 1 But I couldn't do this by myself. It was my support system.
It was coaching. It was therapy.
It was podcasts, books,

Speaker 1 going back to study, all these things, all these programs. I decided to use this rock bottom as a reset button.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 yeah, I could just rebuild from the ground up.

Speaker 1 What are your values? Politics led me far away from my core beliefs and values so I could align back with my real values.

Speaker 1 I could rewrite my purpose, my ikigai, I could align them with what I was doing, with my action, and I could redefine success, health. So

Speaker 1 even though this, actually, this period of struggling with my mental health changed my perspective on what it means to have a successful career and to be at our best in our health, at work, in our careers, in our relationships.

Speaker 1 And that personal journey became just this transformation to let go of a lot of things, to let go of control, to let go of my ego. the ego of my past success, I call it.

Speaker 1 Do you really want to go back to the person you were, the situation you were in?

Speaker 1 No, embrace a privilege that maybe

Speaker 1 the fact that you can slow down can also has led me to realizing that I am somebody without the accolades and achievements.

Speaker 1 So actually my mental health today is better than before, but before I didn't feel it because I was so busy in my head, I wasn't in my body.

Speaker 1 So today it's really being aligned with your mind, body and soul. It's true.
And I had to experience it in a very hard way, but this healing journey, this...

Speaker 1 It was an opportunity, is an opportunity to learn, to grow, to pivot. It's a journey to renew purpose and direction.
And today you just understand that

Speaker 1 you need to build

Speaker 1 your

Speaker 1 mental health and the way you approach life and projects or work or whatever, relationships in a more sustainable way. And of course it took me a lot of time.
It took me three years.

Speaker 1 And so that's why I said I said consulting, I love coaching because I don't think it has to take three years. And you can do this alone.

Speaker 1 So I'm so privileged that during my mental health journey, like going from rock bottom to who I am today and how I approach life today, is of course because I had an abundance of love

Speaker 1 and warmth and grateful to have the health, the physical health as well, and to be able to cope with this very dark period to where I am today, full of light.

Speaker 1 So far, I've had two guests in season one, both women who are involved in politics.

Speaker 1 One is a parliamentarian in Singapore, and the other one was a lawyer in Paris before moving to Senegal to get involved in politics and government. Now, she's deeply involved in public administration.

Speaker 1 In their respective capacities, they've made great impacts in their communities.

Speaker 1 I'd like to share a bit from their experiences. For example,

Speaker 1 the one in Singapore, my classmate from Chicago Booth MBA, mentioned that the election period and its aftermath were the darkest times in her life.

Speaker 1 She didn't explicitly mention mental health, but she was attacked on social media for her age

Speaker 1 and so-called inexperience, being the youngest elected parliamentarian at that time.

Speaker 1 I bring this up because you mentioned that politics is a negative sum game.

Speaker 1 While I can imagine the satisfaction of being in a position of influence and making an impact on the communities you care about.

Speaker 1 I can also see how political games could be a major source of mental health challenges. Can you share more about the challenges you faced during that time?

Speaker 1 And of course, without naming names, just the lessons you learned or specific incidents that led to struggles, perhaps even depression? I think that would be helpful.

Speaker 1 Politics is a difficult chapter in my life, so I'll take time to think about some of the big lines that I want to share.

Speaker 1 And I think I have to start from the beginning and then go towards the lessons learned. So if I start with in the beginning, back then I was 28, working at full speed as an entrepreneur.

Speaker 1 Our organizations were making a huge impact on youth and people through empowerment, impact-driven consultancy. And actually, I never intended to run for elections, really.

Speaker 1 Several party leaders asked me to join their party and run. I always said no was my default answer because we had impact and freedom to speak up without political affiliation.

Speaker 1 So we could advocate for change, for equality and justice freely. But like the rest of Europe and the West, Belgium saw the rise of extreme parties, far-right, conservatism.

Speaker 1 We had this racism, sexism, name it, you name it.

Speaker 1 Social media, and I was a target for that.

Speaker 1 Social media became a hotbed for hate speech, which of course hurts as a community builder and leader that what we were doing, bringing people together, creating sense of belonging, uniting people through projects, tangible achievements,

Speaker 1 new centers, etc. So when I saw that these elections in 2019, this was end of 2018, beginning 2019,

Speaker 1 These elections would be pivotal for the country. So that's where when one of the some people came to me from a certain party, that's the first time it was a timing as well.

Speaker 1 I was emotional because everything was happening. I could see it in the news.
I was like, what is this? All these campaigns, anti-women, anti-migrants, et cetera. So I decided to run in 24 hours.

Speaker 1 I consulted, of course,

Speaker 1 people close to me, but like with everything, these people that knew me as a high-performing woman, always stubborn, just doing my thing, ego-driven decisions, they just, they couldn't. hold me back.

Speaker 1 I know they wanted to do, but they couldn't. They just knew that I wasn't...
They weren't weren't able to hold me back. And that was like part of my

Speaker 1 personality and also part of being stubborn in your goals and in your visions to make a change. I decided to run, got elected, but it was from

Speaker 1 day one of campaigning very challenging. We had this conservatism, nationalism, far-right.
They had almost 50% representation.

Speaker 1 So can you imagine being in parliament more than 50% is really the opposite of what you stand for and who you are and, you know, know

Speaker 1 what my looks are and etc. So it's created a tough work environment.
People forget that it's a work environment. You go to your work as a member of parliament.

Speaker 1 Plus, we faced COVID and Black Lives Matter during my first year, making me work from 0 to 200%

Speaker 1 politics.

Speaker 1 That's where I really regret the decision because I went into politics at a bad time.

Speaker 1 I had several big projects and teams running so when i started my mandate i invested all my time in politics and people leaving my teams and projects behind

Speaker 1 and of course there were other managers and board members etc you were the face so you're accountable and

Speaker 1 this really gave my political opponents the best shot to spin and turn disinformation hurting my reputation and I almost lost everything. My health even led to, like I said, bankruptcy.

Speaker 1 And it's just because I was quite naive because choosing one party made other parties that supported, for example, our organizations,

Speaker 1 organizations, furious. They felt that's something typical of politics.
They always feel that you owe them, right?

Speaker 1 And because of my choice, it felt for them like betrayal.

Speaker 1 So my initial motivation to speak up in these hard times, pivotal times for the country, as a community builder with 15 years of experience, let's go into politics and have this system changing.

Speaker 1 The initial motivation was it may be legit, but the consequences. I didn't think about the consequences enough.
And it was a very hard way to experience this harsh truth.

Speaker 1 And it became now a reset button on my 35th birthday. But the good thing, I lost a big part of my ego and my relationships and health are stronger than ever.

Speaker 1 Because the key lessons really this is, because that was a big part of your question. So sorry that I'm just answering now.

Speaker 1 If I think about it, I wasn't aligned with my values and beliefs anymore so my lesson is if you feel you have to give up on your principles quit if certainly in politics quit don't fight and it's like oh see i'm that's not really courageous it's because the status quo is hard to change and especially if you speak up for the underrepresented if something happens to you they can't speak up for you you lose anyway and especially when you started politics from a kind of a messiah complex where you go into policy because you want to change things because you believe you can change things and thinking that you can change deep-rooted inequalities like just by yourself

Speaker 1 not true it's not possible so first of all i actually had to convert my circles of trust and credibility communities to the the bigger purpose and then and the population you need to build strong foundations your mandate actually isn't associated just with you but stands for a bigger project that's the only way that you don't isolate but that you can start to collaborate And another key lesson, don't make ego-driven decisions.

Speaker 1 Sometimes you have to stay low, work harder, because when you rise too fast, powers in place will focus on you, bring you down quickly. And then the question is left, like, what legacy is then left?

Speaker 1 What change did you bring? Was it for the better or for the worse?

Speaker 1 And then the biggest lesson, of course, from a governance point of view, if you have companies or mandates, just quick before entering politics to avoid them being used against you.

Speaker 1 And the most beautiful lesson, I think, you are elected by the people.

Speaker 1 Okay, so even though they can maybe damage your reputation with misinformation and political campaigns, adversity, they cannot take you a seat. Okay.
It's the people chose you.

Speaker 1 Don't ever forget that and try to show up, be courageous. But if the environment is too toxic, is it worth it?

Speaker 1 If you're quite isolated, especially as people who stand for change, sometimes it's not worth it. You still need to prioritize yourself, self-care.

Speaker 1 Certainly if you have a family you're accountable for, you need to put yourself in them first. Because otherwise you cannot fight for the people.
That's just the thing.

Speaker 1 And sometimes I think it's about timing. For me, it wasn't the right timing.
I made an ego-driven decision and it was a Macia complex and of course believe I had everything

Speaker 1 like potential and talent to

Speaker 1 do something, to drive change. Otherwise there was no focus or keep back from political opponents.
So that I know.

Speaker 1 But it was too soon, too early without a foundation, a community standing next to me, beside me, standing for this bigger project. And that's okay.
It's a hard lesson learned.

Speaker 1 And my motivation was legit.

Speaker 1 And yeah, all the rest is trying to keep driving change as an advocate for change, as an entrepreneur, as an impact consultant. That's actually what I do better.
So that's my position now.

Speaker 1 Politics, whether in government or the office,

Speaker 1 is something that some people are really good at navigating.

Speaker 1 Some people thrive in it and even seek out more of it.

Speaker 1 It sounds like you saw Parliament as a stage to make a positive impact on the communities you hear about. Your intentions were noble,

Speaker 1 but the environment made things worse.

Speaker 1 Not only were you unable to create the impact you wanted, but you also faced various attacks and toxic behavior. The same goes for office environments.

Speaker 1 Many corporate workers might be incredibly smart and capable, but they struggle to climb the corporate ladder because

Speaker 1 they either don't play politics, don't play it well,

Speaker 1 or aren't willing to play it at all.

Speaker 1 I've been in the corporate world and I've seen and experienced my share of political maneuvering.

Speaker 1 I've had my own struggles with mental health due to corporate politics.

Speaker 1 That's part of why I decided to become an entrepreneur, a free agent, rather than being bound or controlled by that environment. For many people, whether they are considering a job change,

Speaker 1 a career shift, or even trying to change the world as an entrepreneur, one key takeaway is to choose your environment and culture carefully.

Speaker 1 In certain cultures and environments, you can thrive and excel. In others, you might struggle.
It doesn't mean you are not smart or that your intentions are not good enough.

Speaker 1 Often it is the environment and the culture that holds you back, preventing you from achieving what you want to achieve. That's been my experience.

Speaker 1 Beautiful. Yeah, I can relate.
I can relate. The environment is everything.
If you feel you're surviving instead of thriving, you need to quit, you need to leave.

Speaker 1 Because a lot of women that I guide now, some of them really start, because they're really these beautiful, amazing women, high positions.

Speaker 1 And they're still sometimes like in this environment with this political games, toxic leadership and they stay I'm like okay but what's the plan and the strange thing is that they cling they're just holding this situation holding it's holding them back they're just stuck and sometimes it's better to accept the rejection than feeling stuck I think so if the environment the toxic environment feels like a rejection maybe it's better rejection can be redirection and it's sometimes better to just leave and i think the most liberating decision can be to move on.

Speaker 1 And like you said, you need to find your tribe. You need to find your environment so you can try.
But it's confronting, right? Being rejected. Why is someone toxic? It's like, for example, for women.

Speaker 1 Of course, more and more women go into leadership positions. They're needed, okay? And feminine leadership is actually based on empathy, emotional intelligence, also inclusivity.

Speaker 1 I know that, and I was one of them, that it's no longer true that women need to like mimic masculine or male leaders. No, I think we should embrace our strength, lead with our authentic selves.

Speaker 1 And I think we can relate.

Speaker 1 I don't know if you experienced it, but I've experienced so many times called being irritated or too emotional after just being me in stating my points in a meeting with a lot of fashion.

Speaker 1 But it does affect you as a woman, as a person, as a human. You lose your genuine, vulnerable self because of it.
And so I think when

Speaker 1 the moment you have to choose and you have to

Speaker 1 be someone that you're not, yeah, you lose your authenticity, and that's so important in a leading position that you actually not only leading, but for everyone to be able to lean into your authenticity.

Speaker 1 And that's not possible in a toxic work environment.

Speaker 1 Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media.

Speaker 1 I'm Vin Shen, your ambitious human host.

Speaker 1 Until next time, take care.