Chris Cuomo | Club Random

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Message and data rates may apply. You're like Trump.
So just keep insisting it'll make it more true. No, make it more true because it's just, because look at the depth chart.
You're all in the mob, is that right? Of course. Could you ask a guy? What do you need? What do you need? Whose car are we going to take? Chris.
Hey, bud. How are you? Good.
Thanks for having me over. Thanks for being had.
Oh, look at you. What are you, ready for a workout? No, I had a shirt on.
You want me to put it on? Do you want me to put a shirt on over? No, I'm not homophobic or anything. I'm just saying you look a little buff.
I mean, are you expecting trouble? What is all that about? Well, what about? I mean, you look like the kind of guy who spends all day in the gym. Yeah, that's flattering.
What? No. No, I just don't know.
Look at those guns. What is that? Why? Why so big? I mean, why so big? I'm actually like 20 pounds lighter than I played at in college.
No, but you look like you do a lot of lifting and shit. Not too much.
Really? I do mostly classes, and I fight a lot. I do a lot of self-defense fighting.
A lot. Sparring and scenarios and shit like that.
You're talking about the CNN lawsuit. No.
No, I wish that shit would go away, honestly. on yeah and i would settle it i mean i'm not looking for a hundred million dollars or anything like that i just want everybody to be on the same page that i didn't lie to anybody but anything and i totally get why the you know the new ownership didn't like it but the idea that my boss didn't know what I was doing is silly.
He's all over the communications. Oh.
So I would settle it. You should, because it's been so long that, like, as you go through that, I'm, like, barely remembering.
I know. And my main witness is my brother.
It's like, so it's like, you know. But it's so funny that the way I remember when it was going on, it was, like, the biggest thing.
And everyone was everyone was talking about it is the giant scandal. And it so often happens in this country.
I've been there myself where something is like the biggest scandal. And then like a year later, people are like, what? Oh, yeah.
What happened? Something. You are right.
And then like if you can't. You are right.
I think there should be some rule or law. Like if you can't even remember a year later what it was about.
Like, I can remember what the Clinton scandal was about. It was supposed to be about a land transaction, right? That's how it started with Whitewater.
Yes. I'll tell you what's frustrating is when something totally disrupted your life in material ways, and then people say to you, what was that again what was it it really stings

because you're like i lost so much over something that now they can't even remember that's what i

just said but that's how the media is you know i mean you'll see that now with what we're living

through with uh the signal thing um they're gonna chew on it and uh the longer there's resistance

on one side and then it'll just go away and you won't even remember it next time i see you

Thank you. they're going to chew on it, and the longer there's resistance on one side.
And then it'll just go away, and you won't even remember it. Next time I see you— You're talking about the group chat? Yeah.
You think that's a nothing burger? I think—well, look, it's not a nothing burger, but it's not an everything burger either. And that's the problem, is that it's got to be one or the other.
Well, no, it doesn't. No, I mean, it's not like the war started.
But, I mean, to be so sloppy, especially an administration that, like, was threatening Hillary Clinton with jail. The hypocrisy is what makes it deeper waters, what they're dealing with.
But, look, to, like, be that sloppy about that sloppy about who gets on your group chat. Yes.
I mean, I'm not great. About a war plan, by the way.
It's not about whether or not I'm coming on Club Random. I mean, this was a big deal.
Well, okay. And they condemn the reporter.
Now you're saying it's a big deal. No, no, I'm saying it's a big deal, but it's not everything.
You know, the idea, everybody's got to be fired. Hegseth is gone.
Walls is gone. They should all be gone.
Right all be gone i agree it's like that's the media just wanting that pound of flesh of course i agree and that's a part of the problem also but goldberg you can say whatever you want about him he did the right thing here which he contacted them once he knew what it was i mean that's crazy i wouldn't have done that that's the reporter who was mistakenly put on the group chat But I mean i once this is oh many many years ago like 15 years ago uh i guess this was twitter or something and somebody wanted me to contact them and anyway i did push the wrong button or did the wrong thing and my phone number was and you know like look i think oh i in two minutes i had 6 000 messages you dodged yourself you know yeah so you know it was no big deal we i got rid of the phone number in 20 minutes and i had a new phone number but but you know people can do that but that's i'm not the secretary of defense and i wasn't attacking the houthis that's right um So, but it's so funny that you mentioned this common ground that we have, and maybe we could get on this common ground. It's something lefties and righties can really agree on, that when you make one mistake, they come after you and want their pound of flesh.
You can understand that, and Pete Hegseth can understand that. You and Pete Hegseth could definitely have a drink, and I could join that party over that idea of, it's not really about the issues.
Stop lying. It's about you want a scalp on the wall.
That's what you want. And I certainly have read enough stories that you can tell they just, this is just somebody at the paper who wants a Pulitzer Prize.
So they're going to go after this. It's not about the story.
It's about them and what they can get from it. And I think that'd be a great place for us to break bread commonly.

The problem is that you only see it that way when it's your balls that are in the mousetrap.

And when Hegseth was saying that Hillary Clinton had to go to jail and everything that had happened, this was the worst he'd ever heard of, he signed up for what he's getting right now. Correct.

So we both got to climb down from there. That's the thing.
Yeah. That's the point that has to be made.
That's right. And people get frustrated.
Like right now, I'm sure my phone is warm to the touch with people saying, how can you say Hegseth doesn't have to go? How can you say this was classified? Well, because not everything has to be a death sentence.

Also, any job, when you're in it a month or two, you're learning.

Like, do I think somebody with his little experience for a job that big should have gotten in the first place?

I do not.

Right.

But he's there.

And now that he is there, okay.

And I said that at the time. But it's not our call.
It's the president's call. Right.
And it's water under the now that he is there, okay. And I said that at the time.

But it's not our call.

It's the president's call.

And it's water under the bridge.

He is there.

And when you are new in a job, yeah, there's going to be some fuck-ups like that.

But, you know, you just can't.

But I'll tell you what.

I think that one of the things that has really, and everybody watching should know,

that Bill hasn't just been a, you haven't just been a good friend to me when I needed it.

Thank you. That has really, and everybody watching should know, that Bill hasn't just been a, you haven't just been a good friend to me when I needed it.
But I am, I say it all the time, Bill Maher right now is top of class and on his game. I'll finish your thought.
And I think the reason is that I say that is you expose the game. Here's the hypocrisy.
Here's why they're doing it. And that's where that is you expose the game.

Here's the hypocrisy.

Here's why they're doing it.

And that's where everyone really is.

Not on that phone, not on social media.

There they pick sides.

But everybody sees it the way you see it if they're independent and just critically thinking.

Right.

They're like, wait a minute, so they all have to go now?

Right.

Oh, and wait, was the mission okay?

Oh, the mission was okay, but nobody talks about that. And that's,'s that there's a little thank you so much for that i really appreciate it uh but that's the little hitch in the plan what you said they're independent and critically thinking if there were just more of them i mean i feel like that's my audience and that has become your audience yeah you know which is great and they need more of us.
But however more of us there are, I don't know if there are more people that it's just so easy to go to your corner. And I certainly know people, some very, very close to me, who have no interest in this kind of thing.
They just want to hate. I'm sorry, but that's what it is.
They hate Trump. I don't think it's a good place for your mind to be, by the way, to hate anybody.
Hate what they do, policies. I mean, I could list things I hate about Trump right from making fun of McCain.
I mean, right off the bat, I really, really hated that. And I'm not even a Republican, but like, you know, I mean, people.
No, but you're decent. Well, people, you know, if you get shot down, you're not a hero.
If you get captured, he got shot down. Like, wasn't it? Like he wasn't, he was trying to get shot down or wasn't, when his plane hit the ground and he broke his leg, he wasn't trying to get away.
It was so offensive, but I don't hate him. And you, you know, if you let yourself into that hate, then everything that happens, you only see through the one partisan lens.
So that's where your thing is about the signal thing, the worst thing that ever happened. You're right.
It's not the worst thing that ever happened. But on the other hand, the administration's response is so different than responses in past eras.
I mean, when the Bay of Pigs went bad, JFK went out there and he said, I fucked up. My bad.
Success has a thousand fathers, right? Failure has won. Failure is an orphan, he said.
Exactly. But it was just sort of understood that you owned things.
Reagan, after the contrast, okay, it was a little squirrely, but he said, well, I didn't think we sold arms to the hostages, and that's what my heart told me, but the facts tell me otherwise. And that was his way of saying, yeah, I fucked up.
But we didn't have the crowdsourced consequences of cancel culture. Now we're into the era of just, fuck you.
What are you talking about? All scalps, and then two weeks later, we don't remember why we killed him. You know? Wait, why was that guy canceled? Why was she canceled? Something happened, right? And these people move on.
I don't think it's an unfair level of scrutiny. I don't know what the mechanism would be.
I don't know how to do it. But I do think that if you were in the scalps game, you should be open and investigated as well.
And I know that a lot of the brothers and sisters in the media will say, well, you're going to have a chilling effect on journalists. It depends on what you're reporting on.
If you're reporting on why they invoke the state secrets privilege in the litigation about the migrants that they sent out of here, then go deep and take it where it leads. But if you were just trying to get the guy for his sex life, if you're just trying to get him for something, cancel him, then why shouldn't that be done to you? And see.
And then see how ready you are to find that relevant the next time. Because we didn't used to report on that.
I can't tell you how many personal- Sex life, are you talking about your brother? No. No, because his party has rules.
His party has rules. You may not like the rules, but in the Democratic Party, an allegation is enough.
And then they cancel you. And he had like a dozen.
You know what I mean? So that's the rule of his party. Don't be a member of the party then.
I had Andrew on, I don't know when it was, a year, year and a half ago-ish. You remember.
And I mean, I've never done or rarely done as much homework as I did that week because I needed to do a deep dive into the allegations. By the way, I did the same thing the one time I ever did my homework here, because this is not a homework show, for Armie Hammer.
Because I wanted to know. And in both cases, yeah, not much there.
I know. And I say that not because you're his brother or because you're here or whatever, but when you look at it, and we did this on the show, and the acid test is when I just read some of the factual stuff, the audience laughed.
That's my acid test. If the audience is laughing, it's absurd.
Some of it was absurd. Now, maybe he like, I don't know.
You Italians are a little too touchy for my taste to begin with. It's just a thing.
It's just a cultural thing. But I just don't, I just, yeah, it was a stretch.
And the Army Hammer thing was nothing. And I'm glad to see that both of them are rehabilitated.
I take a lot of pride in my contribution. I'm not going to say I take credit for doing it, but I have contributed.
That's one of my missions in life, to rehabilitating people who get cancer. Kathy Griffin was on my show.
I mean, people, you know, have to have, you can't just always be judged by your worst moment. That's just, one of my pet peeves about the left that I would say they like to do is judge you by your worst moment.
Yes. And that's why MAGA is immune, because they can only do it to their own.
Donald Trump is truly the Teflon Don. The media cannot take him down.
No. Because his people reject the basis of the criticism.
There's an old expression, you know, that if you have to decide whether or not to care about what someone says about you, the way you start is, well, who said it? What do I think of them? And people have made that assessment about the media. And they've said, you know what? I don't care what you say about him because I think that you allow a lot worse.
And I think you're kind of what you say he is. And that's why they're not going to get Hegseth out.
No. But they would be if it were the Biden administration.
They can cancel all day on the left. They cannot take out members of MAGA.
Trump would have to go bad on the guy. It would probably have to be a federal case to make him even think about it.
And there is a power in that for him. Do I think he's handling this the right way? No, but part of the reason he's not handling it the right way is that he doesn't respect the criticism.
He knows he can just say the Atlantic is a failed magazine. This guy sucks.
They all suck. Okay, but is what he's saying true? Well, who cares? They suck.
And we killed the Houthis. That's good.
And they move on if they're smart. They just move on and the media will move on too.
Thank God we're bombing someone. I mean, they're a bad group of people, maybe not the whole country, but who are out to destroy Israel.
They're bombing, they're disrupting shipping in the Red Sea. I mean, they're not some, you know, lovable, ragged, miscreants.
I mean, they're terrorists. But we have lost sight of good and evil.
It's all advantage, Bill. You know, you mentioned Israel.
Whoever thought that kids on American college campuses would be pro-Hamas? I thought the Jews had become white, like I have. You know, a generation ago, my father was an ethnic.
He was described as an ethnic, all these little sneaky pejoratives, people like you saying they touch too much. And a generation later, I'm a white guy.
Not the Jews. You're all in the mob.
Is that right? Of course. Of course.
My father. Could you do me a favor then? I hate it.
Could you ask a guy? No. What do you need? What do you need? Whose car are we going to take? Club Random is brought to you by One Skin.
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Talk to qualified candidates tomorrow. They used to intimate that about your father when he was the governor of New York.
My father, may rest in peace. Who was like the least mafioso guy in the world was Mario Cuomo.
Says to him at a dinner later in life, may they both rest in peace. Hey, you know, Mario, we had a file on you when I was at the agency.
We never found anything about the mafia. Yeah, George Bush was the head of the CIA.
He said, we never found never found anything about them and my father knew that he was trying to say it in a nice way but he was so offended that there was this kind of surprise that he wasn't a mobster my father hated the mafia he would not watch any of those movies oh well he's missing he's missing a lot. He would not.
He was like, why do I want to see the worst affect of my ethnicity? Because they're great movies. Godfather, Goodfellas.
He was just, he missed a lot. If we could bring him back, the first thing I'd do is sit him down.
You obviously didn't know him. You didn't sit that guy down anywhere.
That guy didn't do anything he didn't want to do. That's why he struggled in politics.
You know, one of the advantages my brother has in having watched my father develop and really be his guy. My brother was the main guy for my father since he was 18.
Okay. And Andrew can make deals.
Andrew knows how to make things happen.

My father could not get past the fact

that what you want is wrong, okay?

I know there's a deal to be made.

I don't want to make a deal with you.

What you want is wrong

and I'm not making the deal.

Fuck you, let's fight.

And so he was a great orator.

He was a great motivator of people and their interests. You're talking your father yes but a deal maker no andrew has a different skill set andrew gets deals done he uses mechanisms of government he's running for mayor in new york now as far as i know are you helping him with this tragedy no no come on why what do you got to lose now you're not gonna lose your job again he's got better people but you know what my brother because of what happened you don't talk to your brother but i talk to him all the time about political strategy about what hey what's going on in your life well i'm running for mayor nothing interesting there he is so worried about protecting me because of what happened really that when news nation's gonna fire you now well, I mean, I hope not, but you know, or at least not for that, you know, but get fired off this show.
That's true. That's true.
I'm safe. It's a safe space.
Um, but you know, he, I'm his little brother. He's worried.
He hates what happened. He feels so guilty about it.
And I try to tell him, look, I made my own choices. I was always going to help my brother.
I just didn't do anything underhanded, and I didn't lie about it. So do I talk to him? Of course I talk to him.
Does he have better minds? Yeah. He's got good people around him.
I mean, I like him. He's been on my show now a couple times, even did the panel, which was great, I think.
I don't think he's going to get past the nursing home thing. I mean, I read the New York papers.
When the Times and the Post are both on the same page, it's, you know, and, you know, I'm sure he, of course he wasn't trying to do something bad. But just like with the Hegseth thing almost, you know, you kind of have to own, politics is a high wire act.
Yeah. Like one boner decision can, yeah.
People go, I'm sorry, I can't trust that guy's judgment. Or they don't.
I don't know what the fuck will happen. But that would be- I don't think think it determines the race i think he's got a lot i do i think he's got a lot pressure uh against him within that party and they're going to have to make a decision whether they want to be in power or they want to uh police their own set of beliefs within their party i mean that's what they have to decide to decide.
What are they about as a party? I'm not a fan of the parties. I'm not a fan of the Democratic Party.
I don't think they're my father's party by a long shot. No.
But- Well, they could be. You know, Andrew's leading in the polls for a reason.
It's not name recognition. It's because when people look at their experience living in the city, they believe he's someone who can make it better.
It's also huge name recognition. You're the Cuomos.
You're like royalty in New York. Your father was the governor.
Your brother was the governor. You know, come on.
Of course, it's name recognition. Right, but they know the controversies also.
Yeah, exactly. So people will, I mean, and luckily for him, he's got a weak field.
I mean, Mayor Adams is, that name is, is, is pretty much.

I don't think Trump did him any favors with how that deal was structured.

I was happy to hear that the amicus brief, that the person who was brought in to look at it, who's a very legitimate person, said, these charges should be dropped.

It shouldn't be that.

Let's see what happens after the election.

It's not fair that Trump is trying to keep those hooks in mayor adams like that i know my brother's running against them but that's that's how i feel i think the federal indictment was weak sauce and i think this deal by trump was manipulative and you drop the charges okay weak weak sauce you talk you're talking about the actual thing itself, the deal with Turkey? Yeah. I agree.
It's like upgrades. I agree.
I thought the same thing. I'm like, of all the things politicians do, this guy, I mean, of all the places, Turkey.
Yeah. It's just like, okay, was it completely right that Mayor Adams will now say, I don't think there was.
I read about it.

There's not, you know, I know what the Kardashians say about the whole Armenian genocide. But you know what? I've looked into it.
It was over 100 years ago. All right? It was Turkey.
Can we just all enjoy Thanksgiving? Okay. It wasn't the greatest thing to do.
But like the federal charges. Again, like he and trump bonded over it's funny that we bond left and right over what the scalp hunters do to both of us yeah and it's the party's plan to their worst instincts of those fringes what it's the fringe the fringe dominates our dialogue, it's our process and you're either look and then and then you get really pissed off when you see the hypocrisy of it i mean there's a i'm roofing you no what is that that's in there it's it's every show i have to explain this well it's a dropper bottle jing i drink it.
It's great. It's a way to make just normally carbonated water into tasty diet soda that has no chemicals.
Boy, these people should pay me more. Yeah.
I don't think they'll pay me any. I never heard of it before, but I got to tell you, the dropper is a little menacing.
I love it. It is.
But the only need that much, Jing, I drink it i pour it on no i'm not gonna say that i used to say i poured on dog shit and they got mad i was like i was kidding i was just trying to say i don't know what i was trying to say i was high but um it's not an insult i like it anyway oh there was something important we were talking about what did you just ask Well, we're kind of going through the hypocrisy of these fringe elements.

Yeah.

Oh, Family Guy.

They have a character on Family Guy.

You watch Family Guy?

Oh, I love Seth MacFarlane.

Oh, well.

You know, I did his first.

I know.

I saw your whole thing with him.

What?

I liked.

He was one of my best friends.

I know.

I liked the conversation. I mean, we scream at each other sometimes, but he's one of my best friends.

I thought it was super smart.

And, you know, I.

We had a screaming match in the middle of the Tower Bar,

one of the nicest restaurants in town.

But, you know, he also brought me

the most amazing birthday present,

and we came out fine.

But, like, yeah, we are that couple

that just fight sometimes. I mean, like, COVID, we did not agree on that shit yeah but that's called being human but anyway there's a there's a there's a character on on yeah you know joe the cop yeah and they make a thousand jokes about it but he's a comic but it just shows you that you know you can joke about these things without— I'm fine with it when you cancel one person.
No, no, I agree. But because it's a black woman who's doing it, they're not going to cancel her.
Totally. That's the problem.
You're right. She wears the magic armor.
She wears a magic armor so she can do that. Yes, you're right.
And both parties do that. Like, when you're in our side, like, if I made a fat joke about anybody in the world uh how dare you from the left if you make it about trump or chris christie it's just hysterical that's right that's what we got to get past i know that's those independent what'd you call them independent critical thinkers critical thinkers you know like i tell people i don't want the lemmings i want the lions know, you can have the lemmings.
You got 40, 45% of the country are happy to follow. Sheeple.
Way more than that. No, I think they just stay on the sidelines.
I think they watch what's going on and they're like, these people are fucked up. Let me just stick to my regular life.
Politics doesn't affect me anyway. I'm not going to let this toxify my brain space.
Right. Because I have a lot of those people in my life.
I do too. You know, they're running businesses.
You're right. They're raising their families.
They dip in and out. They're having sex with me.
And they're feeling like, you know, I don't get what you people are fucking doing. It doesn't make any sense to me.
You guys play by rules that don't exist in any friendship or any professional relationship. You're still laughing at yourself.
No. You're still laughing at yourself.
No, what I'm laughing at is that we've been here for, like, I don't know, a thousand hours. And, like, I really wanted to just say, how are you? And right away, because we are the people we are, right away, what's comfortable for us is to go right into, and this story, and this story, and this race, and this thing, because that's the language we speak and what we love to talk about but i really meant to say you know you're not on tv here this is a different thing how how are you my friend i'm happy to be here um are you happy in general yeah i mean look i like i like where my kids are at uh where are they at so did To teach them not to end a sentence with a preposition the mother's cat or whatever that stupid thing is between the a and the t um uh the youngest is uh determined to go to boarding school heartbreaking determined to go to boarding yeah she's and is that a sentence anyone has ever said i thought kids resisted boarding school And this kid is just, I mean, obviously it's my kid's own bias, but I'm just so impressed by her.
Her grind, her name is Carolina Regina Mattia. We call her Cha-Cha.
And she's- You gave her all those names? Well, Carolina, my wife, I gave her. Regina is one grandmother.
Matia is the other grandmother. So she has their two names.
And we call her Cha-Cha. And she's a grinder.
Cha-Cha? Yeah. How'd you get that? When she was a kid, an infant, she had born with abdominal weakness and she wasn't able to move the way she was supposed to.
And when she started walking, she had to walk like this. And it looked like she was doing the cha-cha.
So we kind of gave it to her as a joke. Just straighten that out? Yeah.
And she's just a grinder. She was a worker then, and she's a worker now.
And she said, I love my friends. I love where we are.
We live in this really great little place. She said, but I want to be around kids who are more ambitious and come from different settings.
And I think it'll help me more in figuring out what I can do next. And I was like.
So she lives in Queens now? Is that where you are? No, out in East Hampton. Oh, East Hampton.
Well, I wonder why she wants to get away. So she goes to school in Sag Harbor, which is a great public school, great principal.

They have great outcomes there.

They have the International Baccalaureate Program.

It's really a very public high school.

I always hated the Hamptons.

And I've always loved it off-season.

You know, when all you guys show up, we call them the city.

I was there once.

It was terrible.

Oh, I love it.

Yeah.

I know.

I guess people do. As a fisherman.
It seems snobby. Oh, parts of it certainly are, but mostly during the summer when the white pants show up.
You know, in the off season, the rest of the time, it's a great community. And they're real people.
So it's like a beach community that only becomes asshole town in the summer. That's right.
When the city-its show up. The city-its.
But yeah, that's what I remember. This is a long time ago.
But it was like the same people who were in the clubs in New York. And then, oh, you'd see them at the- No, those aren't my people.
You know, my people are artisans, family people. Artisans.
Fishermen. Yeah.
Artisans. Fishermen.
Jesus. Electricians.
Artisans. They run plumbing.
Like, what kind of artisans? What are they making? They're trades guys. Trade? Like what? Electricians, plumbers, you know, all the people who built this fucking house.
You think a plumber's an artisan? Okay. You don't think so? Have you ever tried to fix a toilet? You know what? I'll say this.
It's so funny. Whenever people talk about plumbers, they always complain like, oh my God, this guy charged an arm and a a leg if plumbers only knew what they actually could

charge i mean when shit is backing up in your house you could that's why i say artisans and they know what they're doing man they know how to do things build things let's fix things yes i agree we need more of that the biggest boats in the marinas where i go yeah you got your hedge funds guys, but those are yachts.

The big fishing boats, builders, HVAC. You know.
Let's build a schooner right here. Artisans.
Artisans. We need more of them.
I want to work with my hands. We made a big mistake getting away from the artisan class in this country.
I want to do things with my hands, Chris. Yeah.
Come on. What man doesn't want to? What woman doesn't want to? Everybody wants to be able to fix shit.
I do something with my hand every night. Oh, boy.
Do you think of me? Oh, we didn't need to take it in that direction. You didn't say no.
Oh, my gosh. Very flattered.
These bromances turn so quickly. First, it's a bro thing, and then...
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but you're happy so good i mean because yeah you did kind of go through the mill yeah and

you have to choose i had to choose uh between there is a truth that is really hard to live with

which is nobody hurts you nobody insults you nobody damages you you decide to feel those ways

Let's go. There is a truth that is really hard to live with, which is nobody hurts you.
Nobody insults you.

Nobody damages you.

You decide to feel those ways.

Now, physical pain is different, but I get to choose whether or not I'm going to be angry at you. I'm going to hate you because of what you say or do to me.
That's a choice. And I had to choose to, if not forgive, move past what happened and who did what and who said what and who didn't say or do what I thought they should.
Just let it go and just live going forward. And I had to make that choice.
And it took me time, but I do it more than I don't now. I don't know.
I sometimes get off on like having scenarios in my mind. It's too toxic.
I'm just doing, no, it's not horrible things. It was for me.
It's just like, you know, I'll just like, I don't know. It was for me.
I was in, you know, I just, I didn't know how to handle it. I'd never seen anything like that.
I'd never seen six cars of paparazzi chasing one of us. You know, people in the media, that doesn't happen.
I think it's healthy when you imagine your enemies having horrible things happen to them. Not obsessively, but just like to get to sleep.
Just to get to, just like, oh. What does it do for you? Marcus Aurelius was right.
He said the best revenge is to not be like whoever harmed you.

That's interesting.

You know, Jerry Seinfeld's a big Marcus Aurelius fan. Yeah.

It's an amazing.

Maybe he could have a, tell me.

He won't come on.

All these people that I know personally.

Marcus Aurelius?

Marcus Aurelius is a tough get.

Well, he died in 188 AD.

I mean, you know, but you got to have hope.

It's what we call great name, bad guest. It's hard to get a dead man on.
But, you know, I know all these people. I just don't ask them to ever do anything professional, unless they ask me.
If I can help, then I have them on. But what is it about Marcus Aurelius? I'm curious.
I don't think it's just him. Although it is fascinating to me that he had kept this compendium of notes for himself, which I thought was very cool.
For the people who might not remember Marcus, he was the Roman emperor. You might remember him played by, was it Richard Harris played him in Gladiator, the first one.
He is the emperor who presided over the last great era of Roman history. They called him one of the last good emperors.
So when he dies in 180 AD, but he also wrote philosophy as rulers of the day did. They were philosopher kings.
That concept seems very bizarre now. I know, and it's a big mistake.
Philosophy matters. We do not test these men and women about their why.
It's just about getting power and keeping it. And policy is a byproduct.
But what is Marcus Aurelius' basic philosophy? Because I kind of forget. So he was taught by Stoics, okay? Ah, Stoics.
Stoics were ancient Greeks. The misconception is that it means don't feel anything.
That's not what it is. It's about choice.
It's about living your life as a function of reasoned choice whenever possible. Huh.
And understanding what guides that. And that is what you control.
And then there's a whole big basket of shit that you just don't control. So you've got to give very little attention and energy to it because you cannot change it.
It's like the serenity prayer. Right.
And it's just training yourself to be that way. And it is not easy.
It's simple, but it's hard. Okay, here's a Roman Empire joke.
You were just waiting for me to finish. Yeah, but I was listening.
So there's an old Jewish lady watching a movie like Ben-Hur, one of those movies, and it's the Coliseum. Because you mentioned this about, like, so the lions and the Christians are in the Coliseum.
And it's very, she says, turn off the movie, turn off the movie. And they come on and say, man, we turn off, what's the matter? She says, it's too violent.
I can't watch this. Okay, they turn back the movie.
She watches two minutes more. Turn off the movie, turn off the movie.
They come back and say, what's the matter? She says, I can't watch the lions. They're eating the Jews.
And the guy says, no, they're not eating the Jews. They're eating the Christians.
They turn the back movie on. Two minutes later, she said, turn the movie off.
Turn the movie off. What's the matter now? She says, one of the lions isn't eating.
All pain is personal. It's much easier when it's not you.
My father used to tell a very funny joke. You know, it's so sad that so many things that I grew up with where the different ethnicities swapped humor with one another.
I think it added such a more healthy nature to the relationship than now when it's all sanitized. It's terrible that I think racially we've lost out on so much that we made it so that you're walking on eggshells because I certainly remember an era you know i would say the late or mid 90s certainly black clinton our first black president and there was certainly lots more work to do yeah racially i mean still is yes but like just certainly in the arts i think we have you know you cannot say that af that African-Americans are not represented in TV and movies as they were.
That was the complaint. It was valid.
That is definitely not a valid complaint. And great.
Happy for you. Okay.
But like in that era, in through Obama, I feel like you could joke. I mean, there was a lot of comics, so their whole

act was like, black guys do this, white guys do this. You know, like, even making that comparison

now, it's like, how dare you? That's racist. And the fact that we can't, like, take the piss out

of each other. You think of a movie like White Men Can't Jump, you know, that's, it's a black

guy and a white guy. And I think you've got to get it out there.
And it doesn't mean you're racist or have hatred. It's just like, and also to be able to joke with someone is a bonding experience that we are denying ourselves.
Yes, I agree with you. And so then you, you know, when you're in my business, you know, you start kind of trying to plumb why, why, why.
And the best I've been able to come up with is, it's like the ultimate manifestation of rich people problems. That in this country, we ignore things that we could be fascinated by.
You know, like the degree to which we have hungry kids in this country is, always shocks me every time I go to these areas.

And I'm like, how is this happening here? How is it happening? Because. There's so many programs.
We have become. Where are the kids hungry? So top heavy.
They look fat. We have more of a.
They do. But that's the truth.
We are at once per capita, one of the most obese places on the planet, and we have crazy percentages of women who die in childbirth and hungry kids. That one's crazy.
For us. I know.
And it's like, because we've become so top-heavy. It's so embarrassing.
And that's what Trump was playing with, right? Which is that there is this real anger out here that, like, how are you people living this way when it's so uneven in a land of opportunity? I get it. And we have created this dynamic of rich people problems where we destroy each other on these marginal bases.
You never would if you had a real enemy. You know, 9-11, which, you know, you and I lived, there were some real fights politically for Bush before that.
And Giuliani was dead man walking in New York City.

9-11 happens and it checks every box of boogeyman for us.

And all of a sudden, all those fights ended.

That was the last time we saw Congress vote on a conflict.

And now, unfortunately, they voted the wrong way because they had bad information um and there was no yellow cake in iraq and that's not where the 9-11 guys came from they were all saudis and but we were so scared we were so scared but that was not the real reason for the war and there is a, look, I was against the war too. But there is a world in the future because everything undergoes revisionism.
You know someone will write a book in 20 years and say, going into Iraq was the smartest thing we ever did. I don't think it was.
But it was all a cover for one thing. Thomas Friedman used to write about this a lot.
It really was about this, which wasn't a bad idea, that there is this cancer in the world, which is Islamic jihadism. Even people who argued with me about Islam would admit there is, use the word cancer, there is a cancer on this religion.
And I would say, okay, well, okay well you know your other the next thing you always say about this is what but it's not everywhere but if you get cancer you don't go well it's not everywhere uh you deal with it right and we we started off the right way and then we got into the political correctness and obama to say Islamic terror. But the point about Iraq being, yes, that's true down the road.
But the point, what they were trying to do, what they were saying was this world is never going to be safe or at peace until the Islamic part, which is a huge part. We're talking about a billion and a half people.
There has to be some example other than theocracy and madrasas and reading one book and Sharia law. There has to be some place that is an example.
And it's not Egypt, and it's not Syria, and it's not Saudi Arabia, it's's not Gaza and not the West Bank. And the only place in the world where Muslims are really free to speak is when they're in the West.
Yes, there are people, you know, this specious argument about, what about moderate Muslims, Bill? I'm all for them. I love them.
They just don't exist that much anywhere. Or when they do, they're just shouted down and intimidated.
So we need a country. That was the idea.
Maybe Iraq, which has a history of, I mean, they're not stupid. Paris of the Middle East.
That was Beirut. That was not Baghdad.
Beirut, they called the Paris of the Middle East. But Baghdad is a, on one level, could be, yes, absolutely.

I believe you.

I'm just thinking.

But yeah, Beirut also, which.

Beirut is gorgeous.

Yeah.

But if we had this country, so that idea.

But of course, if you really wanted that idea to work,

you can't just do it in five years, OK?

We're talking about changing a whole culture. You have to say, this is a 50-year plan.
Because even though it happened in Japan and Germany, this is a little more ingrained. Japan and Germany, they were just different.
And this was going to take a longer period of time. I think if you really cared about killing the idea, you would have gone to Saudi Arabia.

And look, I don't believe you can bomb up. What idea?

Terrorism as a function of extreme Islamism.

Right.

I think that you go to Saudi Arabia, which is the manufacturer of Wahhabism, which is the seed root of that.

And 15 of the 19 hijackers.

And you say, look, we're not going to bomb you. I can't bomb an idea out of existence.
But you are funding it. And we will come in here and overtake you.
And all your oil will be ours. Or you can police yourselves.
Now, that sounds like something Trump would say. I know.
I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm just saying.
No, because look, you're not going to bomb your way through it. I got to tell you, one of the, I have so many regrets.
And, you know, that's not being a good stoic, by the way, because regret is one of the most useless emotions there is. Because you can't change the past.
You got to just live it different. But you have to regret something to learn and do better in the future.
That's fine. But you got to get to man i fucked this up and so you know what i mean the longer you stay here you're not here and so i have a lot of that still especially in this job because you know at the end of the day the odd people can say whatever they want i have a lot of regret media matters i have a lot of regrets um you know people say you're not supposed to give the answer if you could go back would you Everybody's supposed to say no, because I wouldn't be where I am now.
I would definitely go back. I'm almost 70, but I cannot stop beating myself up about stuff I should have done better and known better at 40, 45, 50, 55, 60.
You know, it just took so long to not be so stupid. And I can't get over kind of hating myself about certain things.
I mean, just somebody who perhaps I should not have been in a relationship with. And people think, you don't like us? No, she's fine.
I don't like me because I made that choice and I should have known better. I wasn't a kid.
I can't get over those kind of regrets. Now, you're right.
I should. I should be a stoic.
I should read Marker. So really, I should smoke less pot or maybe more pot.
More pot. More pot.
More pot. Exactly.
That's what I was just trying to get to. I should smoke more pot.
I'll tell you it's good. Continue your thoughts.
And I'll tell you why. Because you should use the things that allow you to be in the right headspace.
And there's a reason that the assassins started using hashish, right? That's where the word comes from. Right.
And it helped them deal with these extreme thoughts and process less and process differently. And I think that there's value in that.
And I am a self-loather and it is my biggest thing that I deal with. I have a great therapist who's tried to help me for so long.
Really? Yeah. A therapist? You? the tools brother anything that can help you get to a better place you should be using it there is no shame in my game um but you know cigar smoke will change this whole place you know so that's why i didn't know but i was gonna bring you cigars i know that's why i didn't you can no please if you want one have one no i don't want it no no i want you to be happy in my house either.
But I am happy. I know.
That's why I didn't. No, please.
If you want one, have one. No, I don't want it.

It smokes up the whole place.

No, no.

I want you to be happy.

I don't smoke in my house either.

But I am happy.

It is.

It smells like a skunk.

It's disgusting.

But the smoke is.

The taste is great.

But I just so enjoy spending the time with you.

So I'm fine with that.

All right.

So I have a buddy that Christina introduced me to.

And Don Lemon is good friends with this guy and his husband also. Don was here recently.
Yeah, I saw him. It was a great episode.
I did. It was a great episode.
Oh, good. He owns a company called Dragon Hemp.
Don? No. This is far too intelligent for that.
This guy owns this company called Dragon Hemp. And he makes hemp.
I love the title love the title hemp derived he has all these chinese botanicals and stuff he's a very wise guy doesn't get you high let me tell you it does it does so it does it does so he what i'm telling you i'll send you the i'll send you them now you are hardcore okay i'm mind blown so it's not marijuana flower it's it's different it doesn't have the same psychotropic effects, but it does give you like a two-drink buzz.

But your processing is still there.

How much do you have to take for this two-drink?

You would take two of them.

I would take half of one.

I probably need ten.

No, I'm telling you, I have big-time weed smokers in my life who love these things.

Okay, well then Woody Harrelson and I really have to put out a mass newsletter, apologize, because we have been making the case for a very long time about hemp and we should legalize it because, you know, they lumped it in with, because it's a cousin. I don't have any problem with it being legalized.
But we always said, you know, guys, they make sailboats out of this. They make- I don't have any problem with it.
was on hemp paper it doesn't get you high now you're telling me it gets us there is a way uh but it's not like thc take our argument and add to it take um you can read the declaration of independence and then snort it the so i take the gummy it takes about 45 you do take the gummy you're not kidding no yeah i took it and it just oh today you took it i just took it before i came here oh wow you have any cookies no i'm kidding so i um oh boy and it just gives you like oh i relaxed feeling you have to tell me and i love it you know because i don't really drink anymore

see that's the problem with me is i wish i was you for this because it doesn't it's too much

it's a commitment and you know me and commitment not a big thing and you're in it for too many

hours you don't control it like this i could since i stopped smoking i'm not high yes uh that's not

the case with eating it and also makes me a little paranoid. I think that's the marijuana flower.
I do not get it. And I'm very susceptible.
We're all different. See, this is why I had my issues with the COVID reaction in this country, because I just know from other experiences health-wise, we're all different.
We're all very individuals when it comes to our health. So don't put out a big, you know, write it in the sky banner.
We all have to do this. I'm sorry.
We don't all have to do it or we shouldn't all have to do it. Remember, you had Republicans and Democrats who were on that boat until it became inconvenient.
Trump gave us the vaccine. Okay.
It's a great vaccine. We needed a vaccine.
It's the fastest. And now, he just doesn't talk about it.
And I'll tell you, it's the only time I've seen him booed. He was on stage with Bill O'Reilly, and they were doing something like this.
And O'Reilly, out of nowhere, you know, because he's pretty deferential to Trump. I don't care what he said.
But he looks at him and says, let's just get this out of the way. You were vaccinated, right? And Trump says, yeah.
Boo. And you got the booster.
I know you did because I got it too because of our age. Yes, I did.
Boo. And he turns and he says, don't you boo me.
And they keep booing. And he says, I'm all you got.
Don't you boo me. I'm all you got.

And they settled down. And it was a really interesting moment.
I mean, Trump is one of the most effective politicians, whatever you think of the policy and him as a person. Just as a politician, just understanding that always lean in to being more who you are.

The people are not savvy about issues,

but they smell a phony a mile away.

And that kind of shit, nobody else does it.

You know, there's a couple of times when,

I mean, look, I've been his biggest critic for good reason.

And when he got reelected, I said,

I'm not going to pre-hate anything. And then the first week I said, well, there's lots of things I hate because I do.
Okay. There's some things I don't hate also, but the way he can do that and sometimes kind of make me go, oh man, I got to give it up.
Like when he did that thing where the guy came in from the Taliban,

and he said, this is an aerial picture of your house.

If during a withdrawal one American is hurt, just know I know where you live. I was like, oh, can we just play the music now?

Because I don't care.

It's Donald Trump, and he's the worst person ever, blah, blah, blah. I fucking love that.
One time they were doing something. Something was going on.
And he said, you know what? When you come after New York, you got to go through me. It's like, oh, hometown boy.
You know, he has those moments that no other politician has. And democrats have to find that guy they need a message and then you find and you find the messenger no but that's how it works for trump that's what they that's the worst thing the democrats always say message first of all they did and they don't like it second of all they don't give a shit.
It's not about the message. Trump changes his message from day to day.
Tyrop's everywhere. Tyrop's nowhere.
Those are policy decisions. It doesn't matter.
But they don't care about policy. They don't understand it.
His message is, I'm me, I'm strong, and I'm daddy. You know, they're on this daddy thing, you know, and people want a daddy.
You know, Tucker Carlson, that whole thing, you've heard that thing about daddy came home and then you need a smack. I'm like, this is getting a little weird, Mrs.
Robinson, you know, daddy, but you know what? That's what works. And that's what people respond to.
They don't know the issues. They don't know the facts and they have no interest in learning about them they just they're they're like an animal they're instinctive like i smell fear or i smell alpha and they smell alpha and democrats have to come up with an alpha and it's not tim walls no probably not and it's not tim the other tim who ran kane these are not alphas it's like this, the other Tim, who ran.
Kane? These are not alphas.

It's like this thing of like, let's get a woman and then a docile man who's in every commercial where he's the asshole while mom takes care of business.

You know, that's not a message that makes the tribe go, who is strong?

Who's strong?

Who's strong?

Tim Walls.

No.

Org, give me rock.

I need to kill myself because Tim Walls.

You know, you got to appeal to people at a sort of post-civilization stage where we're kind of at on a primal level. You just do.
And Trump does it better than anybody. Trump does.
And he started with a rejection principle. What took him from being a joke to being a messenger was two things.
One that was really missed in the media, and I was just fortunate to be covering

the rallies, so I saw it sooner. We forgot how powerful celebrity is in the American psyche, and that Trump being a TV star, see, I never saw him as a TV star, because I've just known him my whole life.
Not just a TV star, but one who played a boss. Yes.
And that apprentice is really everybody wanted to be him. Now, maybe not certain aspects of his personality, but the money, the power, the agency.
So they missed that. But when he really turned was, I know who you hate and I know what you hate because they all come to me and I hate them too.
And I will make them pay. The idea that Trump was ever selling himself as a cure is bullshit.
He was selling himself as a virus. I will get into the political corpus and I will make it sick.
And that is what sustains him is that when the media comes after him for something, people like, yeah, but you're kind of part of what I hate and he's fighting what I hate. Oh yeah, but he's this and that.
You know, that's what you say. But you're like that, too.
Everybody is. And the people who you like are like that, too.
But you're only going after him. I totally understand their hate.
A lot of what they hate, I hate, too. Yeah, I get it.
But I just won't go. But I also have a rational mind.
Yes. So I don't go all the way to then this is because it is worse to me.
If you don't really believe in the secession of power, if you don't really believe in the emergency of climate change, I can't get on board with you. But yeah, the political instincts, just the connection with people.
I mean, people are always saying, I'm saying, it's my editorial this Friday, about Republicans being North Korean with their leader. But why? The reason why that they're so afraid of him is that they know he has a connection.
If you're a congressman, a senator, he has a connection with my voters that I do not have have nope he will beat you i do not have that connection he will primary you and more often than not you will lose you know and that's if all you're about is keeping power that's all you need to be kept in check so that's why every republican is like you're the alpha that like animals do the inflection moment for me and this was like probably i don't know right now is a little bit of a competition with what how the democrats are handling this but when i heard people on tv suggest that he hadn't been shot at and that the bullet didn't hit him oh i did that bit in my head it's so ridiculous it was so i was like wow they've really lost the fucking plot this guy just got shot in the head i called him i was so embarrassed by how he handled it get shot in the head chris he got nicked in the ear listen if it was your ear you say i got shot in the head he did not get shot in the head if he had this country would probably be in a know. Thank God it didn't happen.
Thank God. But I got to tell you, if it's me and that bullet grazes my ear.
Oh, I agree. You hear the full story of someone tried to kill me and you'd never see me again because I would have never continued running.
That was way too close. That guy gets up, pumps his fist, bleeding down the side of his head, and the Democrats say maybe it's fake.

That's when I think they really lost the plot.

Conspiracy theories are, I mean, yes, they're probably worse on the right.

But it's not that they're nonexistent on the left.

They just hate him.

Exactly.

It's not just a conspiracy.

They just hate him.

They do.

So he can't even get shot and get compassion.

That's a great way to put it.

He can't even shot. I should have put that in my bit.
He can't even shot and get compassion. Right.
Yeah, I know. The first thing, I mean, it's so funny.
You are making me remember. I was on the road that day and I remember arriving at the hotel.
We had flown from the first city. It was the second city on my weekend things that I used to do.
And I remember getting out of the car in front of the hotel and the guy who came to get the bag said, did you hear Trump got shot? I said, no, we hadn't. It just had happened.
I looked on my phone and I was going to go on stage in three hours. And I wrote a whole thing and also did it on my show Friday that night, later that week.
Like, this is not funny. I'm not laughing at this.
Any jokes about how what a shame he missed are not what I'm interested in hearing and should not be done. I don't find them funny.
I don't find them appropriate. I've been as critical of Donald Trump as anybody I have standing here.
But this is not cool because people were already doing it. Yeah.
You know, and they weren't kidding, by the way. No, they were not kidding.
There are people who wanted him to die. If you want better discourse, you know, you can't be part of the problem that's right so i'm with you i think uh you know the expression you know my i think by angelou gets credit for it but the idea of if you don't like what you see in the world try to change it if you can't change your attitude and that's the place where people are stopping short man they're making it way too easy on them fucking selves to fall into these lust, rage-driven short cycles of things.
And they're forgetting their humanity. I don't like what Trump says and does on a regular basis.
I called him because I wanted to say, look, he is very familiar with me and what I do and who I am. I said, I am embarrassed that you were treated this way by the media.
And I just want you to know, I feel for your family. I don't know how they're letting you stay in the race.
And the way you handled that was really impressive. And I just hope you're okay and I wish you well going forward.
And I didn't say I wanted him to win because, you know, that was not my interest. But, and then I start getting attacked.
And I'm okay with getting attacked. You said that personally to him or over the air? I said it to him personally.
And then I said, I'm not asking you any questions and I'm not going to talk about our conversation. I'm just going to say I reached out for this, you know, and what he said, he said.
But so I start getting attacked. I have no problem getting attacked.
I get attacked all the time. I sign up for it.
I try to provoke it very often. But this was crazy.
Where is your decency? he doesn't deserve decency who the fuck are you to say he doesn't deserve decency that's exactly why i have the issues i have with the left that fucking attitude that fucking bad attitude right they get to judge you as people just that's what their politics have become my father never that. And now I get this funny thing.
I see it with you a little bit sometimes also, where people are like, oh, yeah, Bill doesn't understand Democrats. Fuck you.
The guy's been a Democrat for 55 fucking years. You're going to tell him? I've never been a Democrat.
But I also will say I somehow never vote for the Republican. But I actually make a discerned decision every time.
I mean, if you go back, did I think Bill Clinton was better than George W. Bush, George Herbert Walker? Yes, I did.
Did I think that Gore would have been better than Bush, his son? Yes, I did. Did I think Bush not as good as john john kerry i liked a lot yeah i voted did i think obama you know you go through the thing i always act i give i feel like i give the other side another chance that's the way you're supposed to do it right i like parties i like mccain in 2000 yeah i if mccain until the economic stuff what he killed himself killed himself.
McCain. McCain, when that election was about who can keep us safe, he had a shot.
Even with Palin. When he said, look, I'm not the guy for the economic stuff.
That's not me. But I'll keep us safe.
And then we had that fucking recession and it killed him. You know what would be interesting? If 9-11 had 1999 he would have won instead of 2001 he would have won it could have been mccain 100 war hero yeah yeah i like people who don't get captured i mean come on man listen that's just a terrible thing it is it's terrible and it's one of like dozen things.
And what's more terrible to me is not him. It's how people who used to beat me over the head with the idea that character counts with Bill Clinton now forgive anything this guy does.
And I have no problem with forgiving everything somebody does, especially if you're a Christian, but you don't, you only forgive your own when

it's convenient.

And then you judge everybody else.

And that's what bothers me about the MAGA movement is that these people used to say

that, I mean, Pence, that's why I was sideways with Pence.

He wrote this letter when he was in Congress about Governor, about President Clinton and

how he has to be judged.

You have to treat him the way you would your neighbor.

And if he's doing these kinds of things that are immoral, you got to say it. Oh, really? But you're going to stand next to this guy though, right? And then all of a sudden that goes out the window, right? That's what bothers me is the hypocrisy.
And it bothers people too. But I also have a feeling, I may be wrong about this, that if I could say to Trump, hypothetically, that really bugged me about what you said about McCain.
You know, I mean, he flew this mission over, you know, he was an Air Force pilot. It wasn't his fault.
I feel like he's a guy, unlike most politicians who have to never flip flop on anything. I feel like he could go, yeah, you know what? I think you're right.
Yeah. I just don't think he has that person in his his life he may not and and he may not be able to do that but but i just feel like he's he's there there's a kind of innocent honesty to him like the way he just he just voices his interior monologue yes which is he does i don't know about i don't know that i give him the label of honesty but he's authentic authentic well give you authentic.
Honest. Well, it's his honesty.
It's his truth. For the people who are always about, well, there's my personal truth.
Okay, I agree. What he's doing is worse, but it is sort of a version of that.
My personal truth is that Zelensky has an approval rating of 4%, even even though it's 57 it's not really that different than my personal truth i can give you some examples so like i i just feel like there there is a guy in there uh who's you know obviously gotten everything he could ever want he won the presidency twice you can't win it that, although they will try. I know.
Steve Bannon told me different. It's the end of my editorial this week about the third term.
Okay. But anyway.
You're welcome. I feel like he has the capacity, unlike most people, to maybe go, you know what? yeah yeah you know i i just feel like there's that there's because he's so all over the map with everything let's invade greenland let's do things that nobody ever thought of canada is our biggest enemy or whatever or let's get the minerals out of uh you know ukraine well you know what if we giving them so much money, would it kill them to give them some minerals?

Not the way he's doing it with a gun to their head.

But he just thinks outside the box.

Yes.

So I feel like there is a virtue to that.

That's not always all bad.

And I feel like he might be a guy who would go, yeah.

You know, I was mad at McCain.

But you know what? You're right. He was a pilot.
He did his thing. He loved America.
He may. There'd be one thing that would be stopping him, assuming that's what he believes.
There'd be one thing stopping him, and he'd be right. Never, ever apologize.
Yes. Not in this climate.
You're right. You know, I love when people say to me,

oh, that's not an apology. Yeah.
But I'm saying he is very aware in his head that there are two things that we say that are fucking lies. Okay.
The first one is, hey, look, if you just own it

and apologize, you know, people will respect that. Yeah.
People will not the media and not people on

social media who are driving these algorithms. They'll just make it worse.
That's right. And

the second thing that we say is everybody loves a comeback. Not when it's in process, they don't.
They love it once you are successful and have come back. Then they like it.
They don't love it when it's in process. They're trying to kill you the whole time.
It's like in The In-Laws, Serpentine, Serpentine, Serpentine, when they're running across the road that's what it is

hey chris we're all rooting for each other that's yeah right that's the thing about them we're rooting for each other to come in second they're all really you're being too sick i mean especially in this business they're just good they're good this business is the worst hunter s thompson had it right they just want to get the truth no they don't hunter s thompson had it right the television business is uglier than most things. It's a money trench dug through the heart of journalism.
It is a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs for no good reason. That is this business.
It is the ugliest thing I've ever been around. It's not that people don't do beautiful things with the opportunity.
America has a signature blessing in some of the people it has in its media. So I'm supposed to be impressed by that quote from that bloated old colostomy bag, Hunter S.
Thompson. I think it's a great quote.
You don't have to like him. No, I do.
I'm kidding. I'm a big fan of Hunter S.
Thompson. Gonzo journalism.
That's what everybody does now. It's all gonzo.
It's all first person. Everybody wants you to tell you.
But also, like. Their experience.
I mean, talk about a guy, Trumpian, you might say, who just, like, never, like, gave an inch to anybody. Never.
And just, I mean, this guy, like, went out strong. Yep.
I mean, he was not destined to live to 90. Nope.
because he the he was like i'm gonna live the hunter s thompson lifestyle like you know maybe i'll get 60 but i don't know how old when he died this maybe 63 or something yes not late no not crazy early but like from doing acid every day yeah right you know there were several several organs in his body that were in the fetal position. Yeah.
Six, seven years of his life. I'm going to have a good run and then, you know.
Look, I really don't have any part of it, you know, problem with it. I say something that people misinterpret, or at least they misinterpret how I mean it.
I don't have any real interest in longevity.

I train the way I do because I want to be capable of certain things as long as I can.

But, and like my kids, they get upset at me.

You don't want to see my grandkids?

Lifting a Tesla?

You don't want to see.

What are you training for?

I train for to be capable, defend myself, defend the people that I love.

Oh, really? Be able to lift things. i mean the athletic you know those things matter to me i mean i'm definitely athletic i mean i don't feel like i need to to you know lift a tire or that shit that looks looks like you can do that yeah i'm a strong motherfucker i can i said that when it came in and you were like what are you talking about no i'm just'm, like, too big.
I mean, but that's what it is. I don't know.
It depends on how you like tits. How you like tits? I mean, you know.
On women, generally. Well, that would be my point of view, on women.
But men like tits now. I mean, you know, it's all mixed up these days with tits.
Listen, look, you know, politics has this concept called the 80- 80 20 you look for 80 20 issues in politics where you know the people are overwhelmingly i just read about it yes and trans athletes is an 80 20 that's an 80 20 it's an 80 20 all day well explain to the people what that means it means that 80 percent of the 80 percent of the people feel the way one way on it and you know the people have common sense that's right and they understand that there are men's leagues and women's leagues because the women are not as good as the men that's not an insult to women it's just life on earth i didn't invent it the The God I don't believe in invented it.

Okay, so that's what it is.

But you could, the best WNBA team,

if they played the worst NBA team,

it would be a slaughter.

They'd have a hard night.

It would be more than a hard night.

They wouldn't get a shot off.

They're great scorers.

Not when you're, I'm talking about the defense now. I just think every shot would be blocked.
They're faster. They're bigger.
They're stronger. They wouldn't get any rebounds.
I just think if they really played as hard as they could, it would just be a fucking massacre. And that's not an insult to women.
It's just a nod to reality. And that's what, you know, to your point about 80-20, like when 80% of the people get that, and again, my point about they're not savvy about issues, but they get men and women.
They get that. Women have not changed that much.
They get fairness in most things, and they get to square it with what their lived experience is. And they see things and they understand it.
And when it seems upside down in politics because of party preference, it pisses them off. And that's what Trump seized on.
And he had to be an outsider.

The one thing I'll give you.

What does your genius daughter think about something like this? Well, my 22-year-old. Your boarding school.
Oh, the 15-year-old. So the 15-year-old is different than the 22-year-old in several ways.
22? You've got a kid 22. Yeah, she's about to graduate.
She's a singer and a songwriter. I'll play you some of her music when we're done.
She is. What are you laughing at? Laugh at my daughter? No, but it just, no.
Everybody's kid is a singer-songwriter? No. Is that what it is? So that's what she does.
She's done it her whole life. I don't know what she's going to do with her life.
We'll see. But the 15-year-old is very locked into character.
So Trump or anybody who seems mean has a problem with her straight off the bat. Right.
And that's the end of the analysis, which is what it used to be for conservatives, by the way. Which is if you're not a good person, it's over.
I don't really give a shit which one. But it shouldn't be the end of the analysis.
It should be the beginning. I'm fine with that.
Right. Don't you agree? Yeah.
But that's not how they used to play it. Oh, yeah.
Look, first of all- It should be the beginning. Yes, because- Because there were some mean liberals.
Look, they're mean everything. And they got shit done.
That's right. So what I say to her is, what are you electing? Are you electing your moral figure? Is that what you think this is? Is this some pastor that you're going for? Is this your husband? Is this someone who's going to date your mom? You know, who is this person? And if this is somebody who's got to do a dirty fucking job, then you have a different set of credentials.
And I say to her sometimes, if you had to hire somebody to kill somebody, okay, and get past your problem with doing that, I'm just saying, would it be the nicest person that you could find? No, it would be a mafia guy. That's exactly right.
Because they kill with no fucking thought. Kill their own parents.
Not the ear in the mafia. Yeah, right? But wait.
So she has a problem with anybody on the basis of meanness, and she can't get past it. So she's not a particular fan.
But you said but you said date your mom that's your wife i know but i'm saying like that's how you would measure the person why would she be thinking about i'm saying when you're when you're figuring out what you're asking this person to do you're going to have a certain lens of of what matters to you but your wife shouldn't use that but as an example i'm just putting it out there now saying your wife should not be yeah i get it i get it there would be a problem to start before who we were picking for the position i get it but the point is you got to think about what you're asking the person to do and what set of traits go with that and the idea that you want the nicest person you want the most upstanding person to be your leader is rarely the case of who's best for the job. And it's a dirty fucking job.
There's a lot of compromises. There are a lot of moral compromises that you have to make.
And that's the reality of it. You know, Chris, as Jack Webb used to say on Dragnet, we have to recruit from humanity.
And humans are imperfect. Humans are not good people.
I've said that many times i believe that in general they suck sometimes they don't sometimes they don't and you know it's it's so hard to tell do you believe people are inherently good or bad i believe they're inherently horny. I'll listen.
I'll take it and I'll tell you why. I agree.
I believe that they are self-interested and I'll tell you what I call the cookie test. They are not good or bad.
They are self-interested. You're right.
The cookie test. When I would have the babies when they were young.
Have the babies? Yeah. When I had them with each other when they were playing in their groups.
Right. You put a cookie between two infants, and you see what human nature is.
That's awesome. I never thought of that.
You put the cookie between the two. But babies eat cookies? Oh, yeah.
Oh, I thought babies ate milk. I thought they only ate liquid.
No. No? No.
How old do you? They fade six months, a year, a year, year and a half. Before then they're on the milk.
Oh, yeah. They're taking formula or whatever it is.
But what I'm saying is you think that that's as good as they're ever going to be. Not like the first day at home.
No, you'll kill it. You'll kill it.
What about soda? But the idea that they're good, only is jing. Jing I give them, right? Because it looks like a nipple.
Jing is healthy. It looks like a nipple anyway.
That's what I should say. You just put a hole in it.
I drink it and I give it to babies. It looks like mother's milk.
I give it to babies. And it's just as good for you.
It looks like mother's milk. It's not going to hurt you.
So you see, they go for the cookie. And it's also true that they don't see race.
Race is a learned quality. Right.
Do you see it with the babies? Well, they don't see it. But they don't judge it is what I'm trying to say.
They don't judge it, right. We build that in.
That's learned. We created race.
Yes. We created race.
So I'm talking to Tucker Carlson the other day other day and i say that and he says on purpose yeah and he says but where's the race gene i said what are you talking about and he says well i mean black guy's a black guy white guy's a white guy i said yeah on the inside we're like 99.9 the same he's like well but obviously there I said, yeah, we made it a difference. We look different.
You may have a trait for a certain kind of hair and I have one for a different kind of hair, but there is no race gene. No.
And he was looking at me like I was fucking crazy. And I realized there's like an army of people who agree with him that what are you talking about? Race no we created it we created it yes people look differently well it's real but it's just based on where you grew up if you grew up where the sun was shining a lot yeah you're gonna be brown you need to be darker yeah and if you grew up where the sun wasn't shining a lot you you got lighter.
Yeah. I mean, it's really that simple.

And then they started moving around.

So a guy like me, who's got all the Sicilian blood in him, I look like a snowman compared to some of my cousins.

Why?

That's what's in the blood.

These Normans must have come down at some point and done what they were going to do.

No, you look like a guinea.

Well, I definitely look like a guinea.

Look at these features.

My daughters are so happy they don't have my nose. Really? Oh, they look at my face with disgust.
Why? It's a strong, fine, proud nose. That's what I say.
Luckily, though, they look like their mom. That does not deter women.
I have a proud nose, you know, borrowing that phrase from someone. But, like, you know, that't, I think that they psychologically registers you have a big dick or something.
I don't know, but it is not a deterrent. I mean, I have a size 14 shoe.
I have huge hands and a big nose and I'm hung like a sparrow. So there are exceptions to the rule.
Well, there's our lead. But it's sort of like what you were saying about like race.
Like, I don't think it's actually in the DNA. I think it's, it's sort of like what you were saying about like race like i don't think it's actually in the dna i think it's it's it's past the dna it's just again where your melanin was exposed to yeah it's something that happened after the dna was put into us i don't think our dna is is that different but we created the value system around it is is what I'm trying to say.
There are certain, obviously, in professional sports, important differences in very tiny levels of efficiency in your lower legs. That's why all the Olympic runners are- I think it's multifactorial.
I think that will get groups of... No, that's physical.
You will get groups of genetics, though, that are more advantageous to quick twitch. There are no white cornerbacks, my friend.
There are some. There are not as many as there are black.
No, there are none. There are no white...
Adam Arcoleta was one of the most athletic defensive backs we've ever seen in the NFL. He was a white guy.
What year did he retire?

Like 10 years ago.

Exactly.

No, he was real though, this guy.

Yeah, so was Jason Sehorne on my Giants. He was a great white athlete.

Yeah, that was a long time ago.

What?

I'm just saying,

I don't think it's as simple as that.

Of course it is.

Why would there be none?

Like Trump.

So just keep insisting,

it'll make it more true. No, make it more true because it's just, because look at the depth chart.
Oh, I'm not saying that there aren't more black athletes in the professional sports than there are white ones. Yeah, you're right.
Okay, well, that's because of just a simple scientific physical reason. I think there is, that is an ingredient.
I also think it's about focus and how big a part of your life that's made when you're young. How are there? You don't think white kids want to be in the NFL too? I don't think that there are as many white kids as a percentage that believe that's their only way to success as you have with white kids.
Oh, you're delusional. That's lefty bullshit.
No, no. White kids would love to be the NFL just as much as black kids.
They don't have to be the same way. Oh, please.
As if we're living in some era where if a black kid doesn't get in the NFL, their life is some racist nightmare in America. No, I don't agree with that.
I don't agree. I think that you're right.
They don't have to be in the NFL to not have a nightmare life. Right, exactly.
So this idea that the NFL and the NBA is mostly blacks because otherwise, what else could they possibly do in America? No, I just think it's not just genetics is all I'm saying. I'm saying is genetics a factor? Yeah, for some athletes it is.
It's mostly genetics. When you're talking about elite athletes, we're talking about like fractions of a second.
Okay. And when you lose a step in the NFL, you're retired.
I mean, it's a very. Look, we see it in fighting all the time.
The myth is that once you get knocked out, yeah, once you get knocked out, you're never the same. No, it's that you got knocked out most likely because you've lost a little bit of the acuity that you needed.
Just a little bit. And then once it's exposed, it's going to keep happening.
That's why it keeps happening. And I've seen that in myself, my own skills, in terms of how they've deteriorated.
What skills for what? I find, I train a lot. Are you talking about boxing? Self-defense.
No, I don't box. Boxing, we're ridiculous.
No, boxing is fine. I don't even do boxing day.
Self-defense is about, you know, no rules. You know, you got to get out of this situation.
And this is organized? Yeah. Yeah.
You have one of the best coaches I've ever come across that lives right here. Me? You.
You are the best. You are like my Miyagi.
What are we talking about? No, his name is Tony Blower. He's got a technique called the spear technique.
And he's got a big following online. He trains all kinds of people.
He's great. Self-defense.
Oh, yeah. It's great.
I can introduce you to him. I don't want to.
It's a great guy. No, because he does it.
His training is for this. It's not this.
It's this. It's about understanding fear and understanding what to do with it and what your choice structure is.
And it's about how you grow your business. It's about how you deal with your relationships.
And it's about how you protect your ass if somebody's trying to hit you. Can't I just hire another bodyguard? Yes, you can.
I mean, you know. And these days, you better have one.
Oh, yeah. No, I'm very serious about that, no i i get it we've gotten so i'm watching the other day stephen a smith is showing up in polls for president of the united states oh yeah we talked about it and i see his clip lebron james comes up to him starts saying some shit about his his son stop talking about my fucking son oh i saw that and then stephen a puts out a clip on one of his shows

where he says hey if he put his hands on me i would have swung on his ass i would have swung on his ass and i'm watching you go around and how completely we are so uncivilized we give ourselves so much credit for being a civilized society agree more and we are not we are kidding ourselves well we are violent everything about our culture is violent and now they look at this manifestation of it in our president like it's such an aberration this is who we are people honor the rock they want to look like the rock you look like the rock please i look like a pebble compared to the rock i look like something that would get chipped off exactly look like the rock no what are you talking about guys like three times my size that's not the point the point is that's what we idolize every sport is violent everything that we want the the males have to look a certain way everything's violent everything's aggressive and then you expect to not see that manifested everywhere in your society it's who we are you it many times. Tell them to take guns.
Civilization is a mile wide and an inch deep. Yeah, I agree.
Like, you just scratch the surface. That's why when shit goes down and the cops don't show up, it is really scary.
One of the big mythologies on the left is the defund the police bullshit. I remember calling Andrew when that first came out.
Such bullshit. I was like, listen, I was like, I don't get in your head very often, but do you know who doesn't want to defund the police? Poor black people who live in communities where they need the protection.
Right. This is crazy what your people are saying.
Why? What were his people saying? The Democrats were saying defund the police. Oh, his people, yeah.
Well, you know what? Not mostly the politicians, but the crazies who the Democratic politicians never have the balls to basically say, we're not part of this. These people are saying what they're saying on MSNBC, that's not us, okay? That's where the Democrat politician falls down because mostly Democratic politicians were not for that, but they were too afraid.
They were on the balls to say, you know, that's bullshit. That's not who we are.
You don't police your side. Now, it depends on what it is because with cancel culture, the left will take out bold-faced names everywhere it can.
It can't get the MAGA people. No, I mean, I told you before, I have a list of things I hate that Trump is doing and things I don't hate.
Among the things I don't hate is that police now have their morale back, which they lost after 2020. And they got blamed, the entire police force of the entire country, for George Floyd.
Now, that guy, I'm glad he's in prison. I think it was murder.
I don't care what the police manual says. You could tell you were killing him, and you still kept your foot on his neck.
And it's just, you know, no sympathy for you. I know people are trying to get him freed now.
Not on that page. But that is just not who the police are.
Are there racists there? There are racists everywhere. Yes.
Including on the other side. Yes.
Okay? But the police are not some racist assassin gang. They're not some slave patrol, as I've heard talked about.
And maybe the police- They come out from overseer into officer. Yeah.
I mean, it's, come on, man. It's one of the toughest jobs.
Oh, yeah. It's split-second decisions and blah, blah, blah.
Yeah, could they be better?

I've done many editorials about how they can.

They don't need to fire their whole clip, all of them, into the same person over and over.

Yeah, I get it.

But I'm glad that the police have their morale back because they feel like they have a guy in the Oval Office now who has their back.

Yeah, he just doesn't have that much control over their lives.

He doesn't, but it's a psychological thing.

Yeah, I mean, he says the right things most of the time.

Doing that job is a psychological thing.

Oh, there's no...

Listen, I've lived it up close.

What do you mean?

I've been with police in so many situations.

I mean, that's why for the media.

Why?

Because I covered crime for 25 years.

I was the anchor of 2020.

I was a crime reporter. You were embedded with them on the...
Oh, yeah. I've seen the police do such amazing things and what they have to put up with.
I mean, just go out with a HIDA team, the high-intensity drug trafficking areas, and you watch these guys volunteer to go into these things with drug-crazed animals who want to kill them. Are they holding? They are.
They're holding, though, right. They're holding off for your life.
Yeah, I know. And what they do on a daily basis and what they get paid.
And the scariest part for me is how little they're trained. You know, you have these guys go out there.
They're not trained to fight. They're not trained to fight.
So what do you think they're going to do when you resist arrest? I'm not a fighter. I've had like three months of training.
Now I'm supposed to know what to do when you're some drug-fueled psycho who's like a steroid head or something like that? I'm going to shoot you. That's what's going to happen.
The legal standard is lower for them for a reason. We're expecting a level of discretion we don't train them for because you don't want to pay for it.
You don't want to put in the time. You don't want to put in the energy.
No, it's true. You can't give people a monopoly on violence.
Yeah. If we do without giving them, right, the proper training.
And we don't do it. And like firefighters, you know, I remember after 9-11, everybody loved their firefighters, right? Loved them, loved them.
They got fucked in the next contract. Right after 9-11, they got fucked with what they were asking for.
And nobody gave a shit. It's the same thing with the cops.
Those astronauts who just came back from space after nine months, did you see? They didn't get any, like, extra. They didn't even get overtime.
They lost bone density. For being lost in space for nine months, and they didn't get overtime.
Listen, Paul Whelan. So Paul Whelan's one of the guys that we got back from Russia, right? One of the guys who was unlawfully detained there for years.
I'm doing this interview with him, very compelling, and all of a sudden, he says something as an aside that almost made me vomit he says you know and then you come home and they have the uh act that they passed for people like me to be rehabilitated but they never funded it so there's no money in it and you and he just keeps going i'm like wait wait a minute you didn't get any money when you were taken because you were an American and you didn't do anything wrong and you were held for five years in a Russian prison? He goes, yeah, no. You don't get any compensation.
They never funded it. Are you fucking kidding me? I mean, and then you want to tell us that you're a just society, that you're a good society, and that you're going to make judgments about people.
It'll be so easy. And you're okay with that? Like, where does that break down where the guy who could have made that call just didn't? It's just, it's so lazy.
Because we've got to talk about SignalGate for the next week until something else happens. I'm going to let you go.
But do you have anything to plug? I think it's great that you're on News Nation. I'm glad you landed somewhere.
I'm glad your voice is out there. I'm glad you're talking to the people.
I'm glad that you are not quite the, like, reliable lefty you were on CNN. I feel like I trust you the way I hope people trust me to just call it down the middle, call balls and strikes.
I feel you're doing that. And I want, you know, yes, I'd like the field to myself, but I'm glad more people are doing it for the sake of the country.
And Chris, I'm always here for the country. That's mostly what I'm doing for the country.
It's a great poster. You got my vote.
Thank you. Thank you for having me over.
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