Patton Oswalt | Club Random with Bill Maher

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Speaker 1 And now we can't even be a serious.

Speaker 1 Let's have a fun.

Speaker 2 Let's have fun here, dude. I don't want to bum you out.

Speaker 2 You want to hear something really weird?

Speaker 1 I'm going to fucking kill you with this thing. You know.

Speaker 1 okay, let's not keep

Speaker 1 General Patton waiting.

Speaker 1 Hello. How are you? Sorry if you were here.

Speaker 1 I was just...

Speaker 2 I can't imagine how busy you are these days.

Speaker 1 Well, you know, you know,

Speaker 1 I have to tell you, this little moment in the week, right in the middle on Hump Day, Wednesday,

Speaker 2 this is a breather?

Speaker 1 Well, first of all, it's the only time I let myself have a drink. Really? Yeah.
Oh, wow. Well, I'm 70.
You know, can register. You can't.
You can't. Not every day.
Not really, not at all.

Speaker 1 But, you know, once a week, a couple of snorts. And I get to talk to somebody like you who I've wanted to talk to like for so long, like just in a setting like this.

Speaker 1 And, you know, I've said this to so many people here. Like, we're the kind of people, when do we get together? When we work.

Speaker 1 Exactly. It's like, hey, would you like to get together with a camera on?

Speaker 2 Remember, yeah, remember, remember, like when you were starting out and you would, I think you even said it in your book,

Speaker 2 you assassinate a day

Speaker 2 with your friends, but you sit there all day just kicking jokes around.

Speaker 2 So now you have to spend this much money to recreate.

Speaker 1 You can't just go. Exactly.
Yeah. So

Speaker 2 boy, I'm sorry, assassinate a day.

Speaker 1 Oh, I'm so flattered you remembered that, right?

Speaker 2 That was one of those things.

Speaker 1 I remember when I read it, it was like, oh my God, I just remember being on the road and getting to the shopping mall at 10 a.m and walking around until you go get ready for the show and like i did nothing i did nothing no i'm on the planet i did nothing you're talking about my novel true story but it's a novelization of my early stand-up time there were moments in that book where i was like well he's clearly changed the names but i think i might know who some of these people are composites or i mean the great thing about fiction of course is that you take whatever you want from reality and then fuck with it in ever and any any way you want, including making yourself worse.

Speaker 1 They once asked Lawrence Olivia, this is acting, but it's sort of the same thing. He said, what's your secret to acting? And he said, I take my worst qualities and I exaggerate them.

Speaker 2 And you amplify them. And yeah.
Or what was they? They were, they were, remember they were, people were asking Carly Simon, like, you're so vain. So that's Warren Beatty, right? And she was like,

Speaker 2 look, that was everybody I met.

Speaker 1 I just put them all together.

Speaker 2 The apricot scarf, the total eclipse. There was like nine different idiots that I ran into that, and I probably slept with all of them, but I slapped them into one person and put them in a song.

Speaker 2 So, yeah.

Speaker 1 By the way, and that song is You're So Vein. I mean, the kids are like,

Speaker 1 What are they talking about? Yeah. But your kids, I'm telling you, if you think Taylor Swift invented the fuck you

Speaker 1 guy I dated, who I'm now going to get back at in a song, you have to listen to Carly Simon's You're So Vein.

Speaker 2 So Vein.

Speaker 1 She did it with a knife that was.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Right.
But she's taking that, she's running through a party with that knife and slashing a dozen different people.

Speaker 1 That's not just one person.

Speaker 2 That's a whole platoon of dudes that she's taking down.

Speaker 1 Right. Yeah.

Speaker 2 That was, that wasn't a knife. That was an airstrike.

Speaker 1 Right. You know, she dropped bombs on Laurel Canyon.

Speaker 1 But it now, and I have, I have great love for Warren Beatty.

Speaker 1 But it probably is mostly him and he was probably the worst.

Speaker 1 And I mean, did he ever, you know, there's, you took your Learjet to Nova Scotia to see the total eclipse of the sun when you're where you should be all the time.

Speaker 1 And when you're not, you're with some underworld spy or the wife of a close friend.

Speaker 1 But and

Speaker 2 also what's great is the way she writes it is, it's so vicious, but the person listening to it would go, I mean, that is kind of me.

Speaker 1 That's not that awful, is it?

Speaker 2 I got a private jet.

Speaker 1 It's a bit of a flex. Yeah, it is.

Speaker 1 And my best friend's wife is so, I'm so irresistible. My best friend's wife is fucking me.

Speaker 3 How does she not?

Speaker 1 How do you know? Yeah, how do you know?

Speaker 2 I got an apricot scarf on, baby.

Speaker 1 What woman's going to resist that? I mean, the way she reminds that with Gavat,

Speaker 1 right? I mean,

Speaker 1 it's just,

Speaker 2 I mean, it's scarf and yacht.

Speaker 1 Right. You were walking about.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Anyway,

Speaker 2 it's a great, like... Oh.

Speaker 2 For a second, it's like she's had maybe one too many cocktails. She's like, let me tell you about L.A.

Speaker 2 And she's just, and she's spilling it.

Speaker 1 And it feels like you're, oh my God, we're getting away with something.

Speaker 2 I can't believe she had the... I can't believe she was recording when she was singing this.
This is awesome.

Speaker 1 How about this twist to it? On the track, do you remember who's singing background vocal?

Speaker 2 It's Mick Jagger.

Speaker 1 Who seems like he would be part of the airstrike?

Speaker 2 Yes, exactly. And I almost feel like maybe

Speaker 2 that was her. Wait a minute.
What if that was her way of going, listen, I want to sleep with you, but you're going to behave, or I'm going to write another song. I'm putting you on this song.

Speaker 2 You're going to friggin behave, or I'll put you on another song just like this.

Speaker 1 I would love to know the story of how that, or it could be just something benign, like he was recording in the studio next door. Walked over and went on.

Speaker 1 But it is odd because he seems like if it wasn't Warren Beatty, he could be that exact guy.

Speaker 2 Oh, absolutely. Yeah.
And it was also really cool vocally. He doesn't really sing like Mick Jagger until the very, very last verse.
Up until that point, he's very muted.

Speaker 2 And Carly Simon is the dominant one because that's a guy that can just show off vocally and go, I'm here, I'm Mick Jagger. And the fact that he does it so low-key.

Speaker 1 But you definitely hear his

Speaker 1 very distinguishable voice.

Speaker 2 At the end, that's when he starts doing the yapping and the yaws.

Speaker 1 but first off, he's very like, I'm gonna Carly do this a little bit.

Speaker 2 I also love how in the beginning, I forgot who does guitar on that one, but he does that amazing opening riff on the guitar, and you can hear Carly goes, Yeah, yeah,

Speaker 2 oh, really? She whispers, she goes, Son of a gun. Wow, yeah, like she's so impressed to listen to that again, yeah, yeah, it's a great song.

Speaker 1 I once saw Mick Jagger, this is like 25, 30 years ago, but so he was 70.

Speaker 1 I saw him pick up a girl across the room without saying a word. It was like Harpa Marks.

Speaker 1 It was just, I could see that. He just looked at this.
He just stared at her.

Speaker 1 It was like.

Speaker 2 Well, didn't he take Jerry Hall away from

Speaker 2 Brian Ferry and basically like kind of in front of Brian and his

Speaker 2 apology. I think to Brian Ferry was, why did you leave your girl with me?

Speaker 2 I'm Mick Jagger. Don't you know what happens?

Speaker 1 Like, it's not my fault. That's what I do.

Speaker 1 Like the,

Speaker 1 once this, the parable of the frog and the scorpion. The scorpion.
What is it that the frog?

Speaker 2 You knew I was a scorpion when you put me on your back.

Speaker 1 Right. Why'd you do this?

Speaker 1 The frog wants to get across. The scorpion wants to get across the river and wants to ride on the frog.
Yeah. So he says,

Speaker 1 Why would I sting you halfway across the river? Because then we'll both die.

Speaker 1 But then he And the frog's like, We're, we're just dying. He goes, Look, I, I'm a scorpion.

Speaker 2 What do you think? You let you're letting me do this.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So that's kind of, there is, there is something kind of beautiful about true knowing of self, even if you, if the self that you know is kind of an awful person.

Speaker 2 But if you're like, well, but that's what I am. That's true.
That's what I do.

Speaker 1 I mean, that's what he does. I mean, like,

Speaker 1 you know, the we don't have to talk to him.

Speaker 2 No, no, I mean, but in a very weird way, and it's something something that it took me,

Speaker 2 I was, I, it took me way too long, I was stupidly doing the whole, oh my God, he said this, and then he went and said this other thing, thinking that that would,

Speaker 2 I still had this West Wing mentality of you could just point out when someone's wrong and then things are over for them.

Speaker 2 And I didn't see that things were changing and that there's a new flex, you're talking about a flex. There's a new flex of, Yes, I did say this thing and I'm doing the opposite because I can.

Speaker 2 And his followers will go, that's awesome.

Speaker 2 It took us a while to realize because we are from that generation of comedians and comedy where you point out something that's bad and the other person feels shame. And he's like, I don't feel that.

Speaker 2 You can totally point that out. And it's going to, we're in this very new dark era because of that.

Speaker 1 You know, for somebody who's almost 80, he's so much more in touch and in tune with like the younger spirit of the country,

Speaker 1 you know, which is sort of like, they don't know that there are rules because the educational system collapsed.

Speaker 1 And so when you, you can't even expect these people who are like even under 40, who went to school in America where they don't teach you things anymore, to know, it's people who remember, oh wait, no, there is a way it should run.

Speaker 1 There is a way liberal democracy was supposed to run.

Speaker 1 There are norms, you know,

Speaker 1 and younger people are like, they're not exercised about it because they never know it existed in the first place.

Speaker 2 They were never taught it, or

Speaker 2 what's even worse is, and we're talking about what he's in tune with, he is really, really in tune with that period when you're really young and you feel insanely intimidated by the world.

Speaker 2 So what you have until you figure out who you are is just bravado and provocation and being offensive because you don't know how else to be. You don't,

Speaker 2 there's nothing when I was in my 20s, I was all about this is bullshit and I hate this and this is lame because I was terrified

Speaker 2 of committing to saying I like something and having it be lame. It's not till you get older we go, I don't care who thinks, I just like what I like.
But when you're young, it's you really,

Speaker 2 really honed into that because that's how he is every second of the day.

Speaker 1 Not every second of the day, but certainly in public.

Speaker 1 But like tweeting out that thing of him riding the plane with a crown, dropping shit on people. I mean, that, I mean,

Speaker 1 if you're a 16-year-old boy, that's like exactly what you would do.

Speaker 1 So, I mean, it gets to the 16-year-old boy in a lot of people who are older than 16.

Speaker 2 But, yeah, there's a lot of people who basically have stayed 16 years old for a very long time.

Speaker 1 Well, we all, look, we're comics.

Speaker 1 Our whole thing is staying.

Speaker 2 We fight like fucking middle schoolers, comics.

Speaker 1 That's all we do. Well, we have to, unless we, if we lose our ability to see the world anew,

Speaker 1 what is a bit?

Speaker 1 It's not a bit, unless the audience is hearing something that they didn't think of

Speaker 1 or sometimes they thought of and wouldn't say out loud, but mostly it's something they didn't think of.

Speaker 1 When Louis C.K. talks about like, you know,

Speaker 1 we would take it for granted flying, but we're sitting in a chair in the sky.

Speaker 1 It's like, we've all done it a million times, but he identified it in a way that is true and it's and it's it's seeing it anew. And that's a childlike thing, not childish, childlike thing.

Speaker 1 Childlike to do.

Speaker 2 But it's but there's a difference between childlike and childish. Childish is turning away.

Speaker 2 Childlike is pointing that out. And then childish is turning away from it and going, I don't want to think about that.

Speaker 1 Dropping poop from the plane where you're sitting.

Speaker 2 Screw this, you know.

Speaker 2 Childlike would be, wow, the most people in history have just turned out to march against me. Maybe, what if he act, but there's no growing with him.
It's, I have

Speaker 2 stayed this way and I'm going to keep this way. And there's a weird, sick sort of defiance in that.
Yes.

Speaker 2 And there's also, you're talking about the 16-year-olds, but think about the 35 and 40-year-olds who also live their lives under the heel of some boss. They've got no power.

Speaker 1 Absolutely.

Speaker 2 And they're watching people, they watch a boss go,

Speaker 2 no one who works in this factory can smoke.

Speaker 2 And it just lights up in front of them, and they're like, well, that's, and that's, they fantasize about being that guy. Of course.
And that's who Trump is. And that's their fantasy.

Speaker 2 And these people that go, so he's saying America first, and he just put out a video where he's dropping shit. And in one of the frames, the shit drops on the American flag.

Speaker 2 There's an American, the shit. And people go, yeah, he can totally contradict himself.
That's power.

Speaker 2 There is a thing that appeals to very damaged people.

Speaker 1 And there's a lot of damaged people in this country right now.

Speaker 2 And also that have been damaged by the system.

Speaker 1 It was very smart to

Speaker 1 surround himself with much younger people. Like the Democratic Party,

Speaker 1 their sort of image is Biden,

Speaker 1 old, Stenny Hoyer, you know, a lot of these people, a lot of oldies. Not that the Republicans don't, but Trump,

Speaker 1 who is somehow 80 and does not read as youthful,

Speaker 1 read as unuthful, because he is energetic.

Speaker 1 He's a giant colicky baby. Right, okay.

Speaker 2 He has colicky baby energy.

Speaker 1 Right, exactly.

Speaker 2 And people are like, oh, God, we got to put him down.

Speaker 1 But he also surrounds himself, and look, I'm not a fan of most of these people. No.

Speaker 1 But Caroline Levitt, I mean, the press spokesman, is a 28-year-old woman. They asked her,

Speaker 1 who was suggested a Budapest, a fairly innocent question, as the place for the

Speaker 1 Putin meeting. And she said your mom did.

Speaker 1 I mean, that,

Speaker 2 yes, there's something very funny about that, but there's also something kind of scary. Like we

Speaker 2 like to think that the levers of power,

Speaker 2 even if they're in, even if they're being controlled by evil people, they're controlled by evil, competent people.

Speaker 2 But I don't want it's just, I don't want them controlled by the snotty kid in the food court that's going, yeah, nice shoes, old man.

Speaker 1 Like, that's, I don't want that guy with a finger on the nuclear button. All right, man.

Speaker 1 But, like, when, when, like, he mommed Iran, which I was all for,

Speaker 1 and then he comes out to make a speech, and there's Vance with him, Heg Seth, and

Speaker 1 Marco Rubio, all with their natural dark hair. You know, they're, they're 40.

Speaker 1 I'm just,

Speaker 1 it's true. And, I mean, if you're somebody, and this is a lot of people in this country, you don't really follow politics or know the issues, and you're in your bubbles, and blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1 They just see this guy, this, and Christy Noam and Tulsi, and, you know, it's just a younger crew. They may be a cache patel.

Speaker 1 They may be crazier, they are, but they're also just, they don't, it's like fresh, new. We're, we're the, we're, you know, we're a new generation and we have our natural dark hair.

Speaker 2 But it's.

Speaker 1 And we don't.

Speaker 2 No, although I think, and we shouldn't, we really can't talk on this because we're comedians and comedians white knuckle their youth forever.

Speaker 2 But there is a problem with the baby boomers, and especially right now, it's the Democrats have it worse than the Republicans, even though, as you said, there's old Republicans.

Speaker 2 We need a generation that is okay with walking away when their time is done.

Speaker 2 We need a generation that can do a John Wayne at the end of the searchers and go, I've created this world, but now I don't belong in it anymore. I'm going to walk away and let them run it.

Speaker 2 And we have these people that are white knuckling power and you did your time.

Speaker 2 Remember that there's this conversation

Speaker 2 when John Entwistle of The Who was talking to Pete Townsend and he said,

Speaker 2 I don't get this rap music. And then Pete said, we're not supposed to get it.

Speaker 1 We did our thing.

Speaker 2 And now we got to get out of the way and let them do their thing.

Speaker 2 We had our time and we can still play and people like our music.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 But you're not. the vanguard forever.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 So get the fuck out of the way.

Speaker 1 But that's one reason why comedy, though, is in the long run, better than music. Now, we never experience what musicians get at the height.
And

Speaker 1 we don't go up to that level

Speaker 1 right at the edge of the level.

Speaker 2 Well, lately, comedians, there have been comedians that are experienced that height, which I think is kind of bad for comedy.

Speaker 1 Eddie Murphy was a rock star comedian.

Speaker 2 He was a rock star. I mean, that should have been an anomaly.
Now there's like 10 comedians that fill arenas.

Speaker 1 They're not rock stars. Just because they fill arenas doesn't make them a rock star.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but I'm just, I'm just. They just, that's different i'm just i'm just worried i'm not worried i can't that that that's that's false um

Speaker 2 there's a lot of comedians now that it's very very easy to build yourself up to someone who's filling an arena yeah and you miss those years that we had in the wilderness no one's filming you no one's watching you no one cares and you can actually build a unique voice what was there anything more valuable i was just you have the the sign from the old catch a rising star in the restroom here yeah yeah there were plenty of nights there where you went up I'm sure and bombed on an epic scale and you woke up the next day and were like oh that didn't affect anything I got that out of my system and now you actually made you better

Speaker 1 but now not me.

Speaker 2 I was depressed oh you were really depressed weren't you I was but then later in the day I just saw wait there's another show tonight.

Speaker 2 I just bombed at Garvin's on a Tuesday and now it's Wednesday night and they want me to do another set. Oh, okay.
The world didn't end. I can keep going.
I got over the fear of bombing, and

Speaker 2 also you get over that, you get over the high of having those killer sets.

Speaker 2 You and I know comedians who never got over their one killer set that you're like, you're living on something that happened 20 years ago.

Speaker 1 You need to keep building.

Speaker 2 You know what I mean? So

Speaker 1 now everyone's being filmed.

Speaker 2 Every second of your life is being chronicled. And I want young performers to have time in the wilderness.
They need need it so badly to develop.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, look, I got off the road this year for the, I mean, I had been doing it for really? Yeah. I stopped doing it at the end of 13th.
What made you stop? Well, I just did my 13th HBO special.

Speaker 1 I feel like that's a good body of work. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Again, I said what I needed to say.

Speaker 1 Well, you know, and I felt they all, they basically got better as it went along. I feel like the last one was the best one, which is a good way to get off.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 a number of things, just got tired of the travel, obviously. I missed doing it.

Speaker 1 Also, I feel like it was a great choice because I don't want to be out there in this country, in this political atmosphere.

Speaker 1 I could get shot by the left or the right.

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, it's just a terrible thing. I mean, it's just, it's a good time to not be out there.

Speaker 1 And also, apropos of this discussion, I just got tired of being twice as funny as people who were selling twice as many tickets as me. And that's just, you know what?

Speaker 1 That's partly because I'm on TV every week. So, not that I didn't sell a lot of tickets and do great theaters, but I didn't sell arenas.
And some people did who, frankly, are not that great.

Speaker 1 But, you know, when you're the audience is 35 to 45, they don't want to see somebody 70.

Speaker 1 It's your thing about the searchers. I want to see my generation.

Speaker 2 Right, someone new.

Speaker 1 And it's, and okay, so I still have my show. I have this.
I didn't need it. I miss it.
But that's part of what it is.

Speaker 1 You know, I see some of the comedy that is popular today. And some of it's good.
And some of it is like, yeah, it's just like the rap thing.

Speaker 1 Like, or I mean, I do like some rap, but like lots of new music. It's like, yeah, I get that these kids like it.
I don't get it. And I'm not supposed to get it.

Speaker 2 No, you're not supposed to get it, but also you keep in mind with a lot of rap music. Remember in the 80s when people were so down on rap, it's like, what is the rap that you're being exposed to?

Speaker 2 You're being exposed to vanilla ice and two live crew because they're in the news. You're not seeing

Speaker 2 De Lost Soul. You're not seeing, you know,

Speaker 2 the Beastie Boys. You're not seeing people that are really being, you know, cool modeine, people that are being really innovative.
So there's always the ones that...

Speaker 2 Yes, they're making the biggest noise. And then there's people doing amazing work that you don't see unless you're in that world and see it.

Speaker 1 Well, I certainly don't look in music for innovation. I look for entertainment.
Like, I don't really care what is changing the face of music. I just, it's completely a pleasure.

Speaker 1 But sometimes it's like having an important blowjob. You know, it's just pleasure.

Speaker 2 But sometimes when someone is changing the face of music and they're feeling pleasure doing it, like when you listen to early Prince Paul albums and you can feel the joy. Prince Paul, when he did

Speaker 2 Handsome Boy Boy Modeling School, and like you can feel the excitement from him, like, oh my God, I'm actually doing something amazing here.

Speaker 2 And that, to me, is just as entertaining when you see or when you like really young filmmakers right now, like Zach Krager and Ryan Koogler, you feel their excitement on screen.

Speaker 2 It's like watching Early Scorsese films, like, I'm actually getting away with, I can't believe this. This is awesome.

Speaker 1 I'm pushing this so far. You're more cultured than I am.

Speaker 1 I'm really not. No, because I like,

Speaker 2 I also, by the way, I just want to be entertained.

Speaker 1 Me too.

Speaker 2 But the entertainer being excited and also being a little scared, like, oh my God, this could go right in the shitter. I don't know if this is going to work.

Speaker 1 That's also exciting. I feel like that's almost every movie.

Speaker 2 I mean, no, most movies now are

Speaker 1 aggressively unexpected.

Speaker 1 Let me put it. Almost every movie I like.

Speaker 1 You know, which is not just a few movies. It's, you know, they still make good movies, and I'm entertained all the time.

Speaker 2 But you got to look for them now.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 Also, by the way, keep in mind, everyone that always looks at things nostalgically, like, oh, TV was so much, you could get away with stuff in the early 70s on TV.

Speaker 1 You're literally naming, remember they would go, you remember once in the 70s on the same night, it was Mash, Mary Tyler Moore, Bob Newhart, and all in the family.

Speaker 2 It's like, you just named the four good shows that were on in that decade.

Speaker 1 Everything else sucked. Yeah, they all put them online.
Yes, it was not a good time to be watching stuff. Right.
Hang on, this is water, right?

Speaker 2 I'm not chasing my scotch with vodka.

Speaker 1 Sure.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 at least it's definitely not vodka. It's maybe sparkling water.
Okay. Hang on.
There we go. All right.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 I'm very anti-nostalgia. I think nostalgia.
I agree. There is.

Speaker 2 Nostalgia is going to destroy us.

Speaker 1 Well, it's personal. I only live in the future.

Speaker 1 What?

Speaker 1 What do you mean?

Speaker 1 Well, that's all we have.

Speaker 1 I mean, I take when people say, you know, you have your memory. Memory, yeah, it's gone.

Speaker 1 Whatever's happened, as wonderful as everything that's in the rearview mirror was in my life,

Speaker 1 and, you know,

Speaker 1 a lot of bad things back there, too. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 You know, life is not a game. You win 11 to nothing.
You win if you, if you're lucky enough to win, if you're lucky enough to win. You're going to win it eight to five, but it's going to score on you.

Speaker 1 Oh.

Speaker 2 you know you're saying you are not going to pitch a shutout you said where the fuck did i read this and i it was it was so comforting you said i've never understood these people that are like i have no regrets no regrets no apologies and you're like are you kidding me what life did you live if you if you haven't apologized for anything or regret anything you didn't live a life

Speaker 1 What the fuck? And I admire people who do. And

Speaker 1 I actually like myself when I do because it shows that I'm not insecure, that I can go, oh, my bad. You know,

Speaker 2 now I know better.

Speaker 1 Now I know better. Didn't know better.
Didn't know. Now I know.
I learned and, you know, maybe I went off half cocked or what.

Speaker 2 What's weird is our generation, you could do that, but there's a, again, and I'm not putting this generation down. It's not their fault.

Speaker 2 They live in a world where because everything is being recorded and everything is forever, you can't apologize, or then that's this weird mark on you. There's this.

Speaker 1 Didn't we have a beef or something in a minute? Oh, yeah, we did. I don't, look, see, look,

Speaker 1 this is so, this is so,

Speaker 1 but this is so important about

Speaker 1 human relations. Yeah.
I don't remember what it was.

Speaker 1 I don't care what it was. I just remember we had a lovely dinner.
I think Sarah Silverlin was there.

Speaker 1 And I was like.

Speaker 2 And you gave me some very helpful nutritional advice.

Speaker 1 Oh, yes. And it was the nutritional.

Speaker 2 Genuinely. I was like, fucked it, right?

Speaker 1 just helping me out and then you wrote me a lovely email about the lovely advice and it was like it's like look it's it's not hard for us who basically think very much alike and have very similar backgrounds to like bond it's harder to do it with Pam Bondi but

Speaker 2 but you can do it with anybody but by the way people that also think very much alike those are the ones that have the biggest fights Those are the ones that will have the biggest beefs and have the, yeah, because you're like, oh, I thought we were on the same wavelength And why the fuck did this, you know, and and also, yeah, comedians, I think more than anyone, and I think a lot of people that are outside of comedy, and I hate to use the word civilian because it sounds so condescending, but there's people outside of comedy who are like, oh my God, these comedy, these guys are fighting.

Speaker 2 It's like, no, no, no, no, no. Comedians are always

Speaker 2 criticized.

Speaker 2 And also, there's nothing better as a comedian than to have comedians around you that hand you your shit every now and then and go, dude, that fucking bit, would you, you know, and like you need that.

Speaker 2 I, I've, the reason that I'm as good as I am is because I surrounded myself with comedians like Brian Hossein and Margaret Cho and Paul F.

Speaker 2 Tompkins and Blaine Capach, all whom I think are funnier than me. And who all, whenever I would hang out in San Francisco with them and we'd be riffing stuff, I was never the funniest guy in the room.

Speaker 2 And it made me work harder at what I did. And I still talk to comedians that I think people like Lori Kilmartin and

Speaker 2 this guy, Derek Sheen, who I just think are such better writers and the way they think about things. And it makes me work harder at what I do.
I don't want to be the funniest guy in the room.

Speaker 2 That is so depressing. You don't grow.

Speaker 1 And you know that when you came up, the group you were with, you were always like, first of all, comedy, I mean, it's just so idiosyncratic. Yes.

Speaker 1 So to say this guy is funnier than me, I just find that silly because it's just to somebody else to,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 you do the material, I always say, you wish someone was doing to you because you would laugh at it. You love your own material because you wrote it.

Speaker 1 If you saw, if you weren't you, or like sometimes you will go back and look at something you did so many years ago that you don't remember it. And you'll be like, that's this, that's awesome.

Speaker 1 What a great joke.

Speaker 2 And you're like, yeah, that guy, that yeah 35 year old me did that and now me forgot about it and so i'm watching it as if i'm watching somebody different and i'm like oh that is good and there's that weird where you're like wait a minute where can i get that youthful stupidity back because the stupidity helped me get to that sometimes sometimes you know yeah sometimes i mean sometimes the the look there there are um i i'm something i remember louis ck telling me and i and he i was also obsessed with this he was obsessed with not great comedians who nevertheless have one amazing joke oh yeah and you're like how do you have this joke and you almost want to like rescue it from them and put it in a better act and it drives you crazy like how is that joke yours how but it happens but that gets how did the divinals only put out i touch myself such a great record and then nothing well except that i i mean Sleeping Beauty is a great song.

Speaker 2 I love Sleeping Beauty.

Speaker 1 Maybe I'm just not aware.

Speaker 2 Their early stuff is

Speaker 2 the stuff that they did that pushed through with I Touch Myself, that's a fine album.

Speaker 2 But their early stuff, when they were raw and almost like on the edge of punk, go listen to Sleeping Beauty by the Divinals.

Speaker 2 That thing is, that's a nasty, and it's way nastier than I Touch Myself.

Speaker 1 Something tells me. I will do that, but something tells me that because you're more of a culture vulture than I am.

Speaker 1 I just like stuff. No, I know.
And I just like stuff too, but I tend to like more, with music anyway, more mainstream,

Speaker 1 not horrible, not bubblegum, but like, you know, like I like what the hits are, and I have a feeling I'm going to listen to this.

Speaker 2 There's a reason that they're hits.

Speaker 1 Nothing drives me crazy when they're crazy.

Speaker 2 There's nothing drives me crazy when someone goes, ah, this band, they just wrote a bunch of hit songs.

Speaker 1 Do you know how hard it is to write hit songs? That is like, I know.

Speaker 2 You just named.

Speaker 1 Oh, that guy.

Speaker 2 All he does is hit fucking home runs.

Speaker 1 That's not interesting. I know.
It's like, wait, what what are you talking about? Right. Yeah.

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Speaker 1 where it counts.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 like

Speaker 2 that thing that you were talking about of, oh, who's the best comedian?

Speaker 2 On any given night, someone can be the best comedian and someone can be the worst comedian. I have gone on nights, even

Speaker 2 there's no such thing as getting beyond

Speaker 2 having bad nights. There's just, there's just, that doesn't exist.
And there are some nights when the most average comedian can go on stage and somehow click on something and something happens.

Speaker 1 Same with acting. Well, it's also an audience is just a mysterious entity.

Speaker 2 And it's an event. It's a verb.
It's not a noun. An audience is a verb, not a noun.
It's not going to happen again. It's that moment is not going to happen again.

Speaker 1 It's a verb. And there's some psychic energy that goes through a room of people in an audience where collectively they just take on

Speaker 1 more of a singular personality. I don't know if there are certain dominant brains in the room and there's brain waves.
I don't know what it is. I never thought of it that way.

Speaker 1 But they just take on a certain singular personality and that personality can be good and it can be bad. I never believed these comics who said there's no such thing as a bad audience.
Yes, there is.

Speaker 1 There is absolutely a good and bad way to deal with a bad audience. Yes.

Speaker 1 Oh wait,

Speaker 1 I was a great practitioner, certainly in my earlier years and probably too long after, of the bad way of doing it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, I mean, Larry David almost hurt his career because comedians would rush into the room to watch him deal badly with a bad audience. Like, that was more entertaining to them than him doing well.

Speaker 1 And it was kind of hurting him.

Speaker 2 It was so fascinating.

Speaker 1 I saw him once walk off stage because someone coughed.

Speaker 1 Really? I'm not lying. I mean, he almost looked for a reason to walk off stage.

Speaker 2 Well, or he would look for a reason to put up a wall in front of the audience and see if they could still climb over it. So he would go up on stage.
I remember one time he goes, do you mind if?

Speaker 2 i don't know why this makes me laugh so hard do you mind if i use the formal vooo and not the familiar to

Speaker 2 and and this is probably i'm sure that was a governor's and there was a whole audience just governors like what the fuck is what is this asshole doing so yeah that you know

Speaker 1 so i guess we played

Speaker 1 the same venues we just you just started slightly later than i did so we missed each other on that circuit we missed each other i i when did you start i started in 79 and moved out to la in 83.

Speaker 2 oh you got so you got to experience the boom yes you got to experience the boom yes yes yeah yes i remember when mid-sized cities oh had like four comedy clubs like columbus oh would have four comedy clubs i started in the summer of 88

Speaker 2 and i

Speaker 2 I got the tiniest taste of the boom and then I watched the boom collapse.

Speaker 1 That was the collapse. That was the collapse.
A lot of the art that I have in my house, I'm ashamed to admit

Speaker 1 listen to this right i'm ashamed to admit this but i'm also kind of proud

Speaker 1 bud friedman of the improv fame bud like during the boom he opened like many improv franchises around the country

Speaker 2 too many

Speaker 1 and when it busted and when it was when it boomed he bought a big trophy house in Beverly Hills and filled it with art. You know, he was newly married to his second wife.

Speaker 1 I loved Alex and still love her. And, you know, they wanted to, they were like, they were like, you know, we're now in this realm.
We're now in this echelon. We're in Beverly Hills.

Speaker 1 We're not like the owner of the improv.

Speaker 1 And we like it.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So when it busted, he took me around his house and said, I'll sell you this for 300 bucks.
And I, and I have in my house to this day, like, I'm going to say, I don't want to say priceless art.

Speaker 1 It certainly wasn't priceless, priceless, but I'm just saying I got it as a beneficiary of the bust in the comedy club circuit.

Speaker 2 In the eventual,

Speaker 2 I don't want to say that anyone would do a biopic on Bud Freeman, but

Speaker 2 that would be an amazing scene in a movie set in the early 80s, the late 80s as the bust happens. And it's just Bud Freeman leading you and Paul Reiser.
And like, you can have this for like $200.

Speaker 2 It's a freaking Klee. Please, I need to get rid of this right now.

Speaker 1 And then, to make it worse,

Speaker 1 about

Speaker 1 10 years later,

Speaker 1 my friend Eddie the Hat, who was an art dealer,

Speaker 1 was dying. Oh, God.
And he needed money. And he took me around his,

Speaker 1 but he had so many pieces.

Speaker 2 Are you this art world angel of death?

Speaker 1 What the fuck?

Speaker 1 Hey, how's Eddie the Hat? How do you do it? Well, listen, I don't want to say anything, but Bill Maher just went to his house. It was his idea.

Speaker 1 He said, I'll give you everything for just what I paid for it. And I bought $100,000 worth of, like, and a lot of it didn't even fit anywhere yet.

Speaker 2 What if you became slang in the art world?

Speaker 1 You'll stop smoking.

Speaker 2 Bill Maher's going to visit your house and look at your collection.

Speaker 1 I didn't plan it. I'm just like the vulture of the art world.
Like, when I see

Speaker 1 when I see that you're going down, I mean, look, it's not like anyone's going to need those bones that I'm picking at.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 why not pick at them?

Speaker 2 I'm sorry, but some of of this furniture that you have in this room, I don't know. By the way,

Speaker 2 you still have the

Speaker 1 sniper angle.

Speaker 2 I watched a lot of these episodes, and there's a friggin camera angle that is a hired killer behind one of these

Speaker 2 pillars about to kill. It's the weirdest angle to have for a talk show.

Speaker 2 Are you reminding your guest that all glory is fleeting? Like anyone can kill you at any second?

Speaker 1 Like, why is this angle back here? I don't know.

Speaker 1 I just love that this whole room, you know, I had this room fitted out by a crew that did like Big Brother, like literally, like those kind of, I said, I said, that makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 1 I said, if I'm going to do a

Speaker 1 podcast, I'm going to do it like, not like the other podcast where you actually see the mic and like, you feel like you're on, you're, you know, because other podcasts, honestly, most of them, just look like talk shows.

Speaker 1 They just took the talk show format. They moved it onto the podcast.
And it's just, but it's like someone with a microphone and cards with questions. That's not what we're doing here.

Speaker 1 We're just, we're just, yeah. Are you drinking?

Speaker 2 Dude, this is

Speaker 2 which camera is mine?

Speaker 1 Oh, right there. Can I introduce you? Or there, or the one that's going to shoot you in the head.

Speaker 1 Hi there, hired killer.

Speaker 2 You know, when you get the shakes from killing too many

Speaker 2 people that couldn't keep their mouths shut, you want to turn to the soothing

Speaker 2 hover pot distilled McCarthy's single malt whiskey. It's made in Portland, Oregon by the Clear Creek Distillery, and it's the only American single malt whiskey.
And it's the one that I always trust.

Speaker 1 McCarthy's.

Speaker 2 It's good for you, and it'll keep those demons from coming at night.

Speaker 1 And that's why I like to hang out with comedians. Yeah, exactly.
Let's see a banker do that. But some of the

Speaker 2 furniture, I'm having weird flashbacks to green rooms in comedy clubs. Is this stuff?

Speaker 2 Because I saw the catcher rising star

Speaker 2 sign. Did you salvage stuff from

Speaker 1 Ashley?

Speaker 2 Because wasn't there for a while there was a weird design

Speaker 2 style book for comedy clubs in the 80s that was

Speaker 1 that's in the book too about like, you know, there's a funny passage where he first walks into the club and wherever he was on the road. And like, it was the grouch show on the wall.

Speaker 2 The grouch show. In neon.

Speaker 1 W. C.
Fields. And, you know, Charlie Chappelle.

Speaker 2 And you remember Andy Kindler's joke about that.

Speaker 1 As if we were following in their footsteps.

Speaker 2 Yes, but his joke was, why drag them into it?

Speaker 2 What did they do?

Speaker 2 Why do they have to be part of this?

Speaker 1 You know, as if we were following in the footsteps of W.C. Fields.
Yeah, like, oh, yes, this is

Speaker 2 on the continuation.

Speaker 1 Charlie Joplin, W.C. Fields, these geniuses of dominion.

Speaker 2 And then Pat Noswalt yammering about a date that went wrong.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 By the way, talking about dealing with crowds, there's this great Andy Kindler set on David Letterman where, and he was like his third set because he went on twice and killed.

Speaker 2 And his third set, there's a chunk of it that just he's getting nothing, nothing. This is a Letterman set.
And then he does a joke. And it's a very weird joke and it gets nothing.

Speaker 2 And then he just says,

Speaker 2 folks, I don't write this stuff.

Speaker 1 And then people just explode.

Speaker 2 It's like he handled what you said, a bad crowd, but on national TV, it's, I'm sorry, it's an amazing moment.

Speaker 2 But those moments of you, you must have so many memories of someone that was dealing with a bad crowd and then turned it around

Speaker 2 on a horrible night where you're like, this night could have been this

Speaker 2 forgotten Thursday night. And then I turned the last 15 minutes into something transcendent.
That's why we keep doing it.

Speaker 1 Well, that's not why I kept doing it. I mean, I don't want that painful experience.
No,

Speaker 1 I would love it. And, you know, luckily, in the last, oh, God knows how many years of doing this, I never had a bad moment because I was older and the crowd liked me to begin with.

Speaker 1 And I was, and I'm a professional, and I didn't, you know. But in those first 10 years, I mean, there's so many nights like that.

Speaker 1 And I never, I don't remember any instances, instances of what you're talking about of turning it around?

Speaker 1 You could call it that. What

Speaker 1 I saw and what I learned to do with a bad crowd is just stay with it. Just don't acknowledge it.
And if you don't acknowledge it,

Speaker 1 my problem at the beginning was I would acknowledge it immediately and blame them. You know, what's wrong with you, idiots, for not getting that great joke I just got to get over that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but it takes a while to get over that because you're so.

Speaker 1 It took me a very long time.

Speaker 1 And what you can do is if you just, first of all, you have to keep in mind, the audience doesn't know they're bad because they're not comparing it to any other audience.

Speaker 1 They're not a professional audience person.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 They're there

Speaker 1 on this one night. They think they're doing great.
You were remembering, you were remembering last night in Chicago when they were awesome. And now you're here and they suck.

Speaker 1 And you can't blame them for that.

Speaker 2 You know, it's amazing. There's a generation of comedians that can call up their own TikTok account in front of an audience and go, This is the audience last night.
You guys are wrong.

Speaker 2 Watch this, just watch. Like, they could show you that.

Speaker 1 Do they?

Speaker 2 No, I'm just saying if they wanted to, they could.

Speaker 1 See, that's what I always wanted to do.

Speaker 2 You wanted to show them footage of see?

Speaker 1 I just started to get hard when you said that.

Speaker 1 That's like such a lifelong dream that I wanted to show you.

Speaker 2 We'll be right back.

Speaker 1 After this word from McLaren or

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Speaker 1 Are you invested in this company?

Speaker 2 No, I just

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It is the fuck. They nail the...

Speaker 2 This is a Molotov cocktail made out of hugs. That's what McCarthy's is.

Speaker 1 I hate to keep going back to this theme. Go ahead.
But I I just think you're more cultured than me. I mean, you're like, I don't talk about liquor this way.
I don't talk about

Speaker 1 movie, comics, music. And it's okay.

Speaker 1 But I'm just

Speaker 2 enthusiastic about stuff. And when I, I'm one of those guys that if I like something, then I got to know everything about it.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 Like, then I got to go back and listen to everything or watch everything. If there's a

Speaker 1 YouTube, like, get into the YouTube.

Speaker 2 For as far as YouTube can take you, but there's a lot of stuff that you got to either go to the, you still got to...

Speaker 2 I'm very, very happy that there are certain things. Still got to go to the record store and find the vinyl.
Still got to...

Speaker 2 I'm also very lucky that I'm friends with people like Blaine Capach, who is my entry into all this obscure music. I've become friends.

Speaker 2 Do you want to listen to a podcast called A History of Rock and Roll and 500 Songs?

Speaker 1 No. Oh, dude.

Speaker 2 This guy, Andrew Hickey, who I become friends with, and he knows every little side road about every song you've ever.

Speaker 2 It's fascinating, and I just love learning all the stories.

Speaker 1 Does he have the right 500 songs that he's talking about? Because, like,

Speaker 2 here's the thing. He even does an episode where he goes, this is called a history of rock and roll in 500 songs.
It is not the history. It is my history.

Speaker 1 And a lot of this is wrong.

Speaker 1 It's not wrong.

Speaker 2 And you should argue with it.

Speaker 1 It's not wrong. It's just personal.

Speaker 1 Like, the silliest thing you can ever say to somebody i think is you know you don't like this song oh well that was

Speaker 2 that was me in my 20s and i now but but maturing is now going

Speaker 2 i used to go like you haven't seen apocalypse now

Speaker 2 but now i'm like oh you haven't you you're gonna get to see it for the first time i'm never gonna get to do that again i'm really excited like damn i would give anything to see that movie for the first time again so like as you get older you you get that, you know, oh, it's, I'm not trying to win any argument.

Speaker 2 There's so much, like, so much of comedy and culture. They've added this weird sports element to it of this person wins, or this person owns, or this person,

Speaker 2 it is different every single day. There's no best actor.
There's no best comedian. It's everyone doing their best job every single day.
And some days.

Speaker 2 You can just nail it. And other days you don't.

Speaker 2 And it doesn't end the world and you keep showing up and and doing it and that's the best way to pursue art and also I wish it wasn't I wish it just wasn't ranked all the time I think I mean you have much more experience with acting than I do and you were in DC Cab and I wasn't I'm never gonna talk that no you did you had the deal you were you were in between Gary Busey and Mr.

Speaker 2 T I mean I can't

Speaker 1 no but you you you had you've had quite a career as an actor very lucky

Speaker 1 very lucky

Speaker 1 up that No one's buying that. I'm very lucky.
What are we on? Entertainment. What are we on? Entertainment tonight.

Speaker 1 Listen.

Speaker 2 There is an element of luck to everything.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's true. But you're also, like, I was going to say, because you were going on about how, like, we have good days and bad days.
To the audience, we don't notice it.

Speaker 1 Like, I never once watched you and thought, boy, he's having a bad day. I'm like, he's doing his thing, which works.
I mean, that movie you did, The Big Fan

Speaker 1 is a great movie.

Speaker 1 And that's maybe me being a cultural vulture because that's not like uh you know i'm sure the biggest box office earner of that oh boy but what a great movie what a and also the one you did with charlize

Speaker 1 what's that one adult young adult young adult is a awesome movie and that and you're i mean yeah you do you you did it as good as anybody does and well that with Charlize, that was really helpful because,

Speaker 2 yes, I did work very hard. That was the the first time I really worked with an acting coach.

Speaker 1 That's an awesome movie. What? Adult World.

Speaker 2 No, the animated one.

Speaker 1 No, no, young adult. Young adult.
So good. Yeah, yeah.
Just such a, like,

Speaker 1 you know, they make, yes, most movies are stupid and spandex and, you know, shooting rays at the end of your fingers.

Speaker 1 But they still make these kind of movies. Absolutely.
They still make them. And they always, always will.

Speaker 1 And there's a certain group of like, you know, I'm sorry, but, you know, Pharisees of the business who are mad at us because we won't see them in the theater.

Speaker 1 Like, you need to see it with a group of people, and it's better if everyone's laughing. You know, I don't give a shit if everyone's laughing.
I care if I'm laughing.

Speaker 1 I'm not going to laugh because you're laughing.

Speaker 2 But I will.

Speaker 1 Okay. Say because you're a culture vulture.
You want them to go to the theater.

Speaker 2 It's a different experience if you go see it in a theater. Yeah.
I'm telling you.

Speaker 1 I'm not in bed. That's how different it is.
I can't go to the bathroom for two seconds and come back to it um i can't snuggle i mean it's just

Speaker 2 moments in theaters with people that have changed the way i have looked at films and made those and and reminded me how even deeper and more amazing those movies were because and i'm sure there were people that uh i don't want to tell you like

Speaker 2 I got a deeper appreciation of this band because I saw them in concert. Like, okay, I'll give you an example.
Well, that's, yes.

Speaker 2 I always thought P.J. Harvey was perfectly fine.
I liked her music. And then one night I was at the Viper room.
I was going to go see a band called Metal Shop, which was this really fun band. And P.J.

Speaker 2 Harvey went up with her bassist and just worked out the new songs from Songs from the City, Songs from the Sea. Just the rawest,

Speaker 2 and it made me completely. I was like, I did not know this dimension of her.

Speaker 1 It would make me take heroin.

Speaker 1 Again, she was amazing. I'm sure it was.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God. It's like my top five concert experiences.
I'll bet it. And me and 40 people.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I'm so opposite. I mean, we would definitely not be a good married couple.
No, because

Speaker 1 all we would do is fight. We'd all we do is fight.

Speaker 2 But you know what? The liquor would make it okay.

Speaker 2 It would smooth out.

Speaker 1 The sex would be hot because it would be like sex. Because you'd be so angry.
Exactly.

Speaker 2 Be so angry. And you and I are at that weird.
This isn't like you and Seth McFarlane.

Speaker 1 We would fight over who's the bottom.

Speaker 2 Like we could almost argue week to week, like, how is it changing? It would, oh, it would always, we'd always be on the edge of our seats. It's true.

Speaker 1 That is the gayest relationship I had. That's not actually gay.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 But I love them because it is that way. Yeah.
It's great.

Speaker 1 But no, PJ Harvey, I know the name. I wouldn't know her if I fell over in my sleep.
Maybe she's fantastic. I'll give her a try also on your recommendation.

Speaker 2 Fucking.

Speaker 1 But the idea.

Speaker 1 of liking something in its rawest form, I don't even like usually when they put out posthumous recordings of stuff where they were working on it. It's like

Speaker 1 that's terrible, but like, no, you made the right decision when you put out, you know, the version you put out generally.

Speaker 1 Like the Beatles put out anthology in 1995. They put out 25 years after they broke up, they said, no, okay, we're going to go to the ball.
We're tired of people.

Speaker 1 First of all, just bootlegging it. Let's do it officially.
And of course, anything Beatles is going to make a fortune. And it was great.

Speaker 1 And they put out two new tracks where the three of them did something that Lennon had.

Speaker 2 Those, yeah, Free as a Bird.

Speaker 1 I like those songs. Oh, I hated those songs.
I love those songs.

Speaker 2 Those songs were necrophilia.

Speaker 1 Great pop songs.

Speaker 2 Necrophilia.

Speaker 1 Free as a Bird, and what's the other one?

Speaker 2 What was the other one? Oh, I know it.

Speaker 1 I'm just stoned. I can't think of it.
You know, it was for.

Speaker 1 Wait, you smoke weed? Yeah. Bill Maher.
Do you?

Speaker 2 Are you cool saying this on camera? Bill Bill Maher smokes weed?

Speaker 1 Fabric weed?

Speaker 1 I've been caught on by now, I tell you.

Speaker 1 This country's dimmer than I thought it would be.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 in general,

Speaker 1 I listened to the outtakes.

Speaker 1 There's a couple where I would say

Speaker 1 I think they got it wrong. I like the there's a version of Glass Onion from the White Album that I like better.

Speaker 1 There's a version of Good Morning, Good Morning, which is on Sgt. Pepper, which is at least as good, a little more raw without giving up any of the production value.

Speaker 1 One After 909, which they originally recorded when they were a young band and they never got to it.

Speaker 1 And then

Speaker 1 they did it on the Let It Be album, their last album. So they brought back something they were doing when they were a club band in 1963.

Speaker 2 And they're playing the German strip club.

Speaker 1 And they did not do it as well as I thought the first time. Other than that, they basically got it right.
They put out the best version. They and

Speaker 1 idiots like me, just the young man in the 22nd row. That's all I am.

Speaker 2 That's all I want.

Speaker 1 Look, listen, I get that.

Speaker 2 But I'm saying that when I'm talking about going to see a movie, you're not watching a raw thing.

Speaker 2 And with someone like PJ Harvey, who is such a buster ass writing songs, she wasn't going up going, I don't know if this is going to work.

Speaker 2 Like these were songs she was about to record and was ready to record, and everything landed like a fucking flashette grenade. It was a 40 people in this room were just blown away.

Speaker 1 Well, you were.

Speaker 2 So those moments like that,

Speaker 2 I really live for those. Those moments when the artist themselves is just as surprised as the audience, those are amazing.

Speaker 1 But I bet you my reaction would be.

Speaker 1 There's something here, which is great. Now, come back when you finish this record.

Speaker 2 By the way, listen, there are certain things

Speaker 2 for a while. I remember in the early, in the mid-90s, they toured a version of The Big Sleep, Humphrey Bogart's The Big Sleep, and they toured Howard Hawk.

Speaker 1 So the Marlowe novel? The Marlowe novel made into a movie with Howard Hawks with the first Humphrey Bogart.

Speaker 2 Right? No, not the first Humphrey Bogart. Humphrey Bogart had played Sam Spade before that in Maltese Falcon.

Speaker 1 Isn't The Big Sleep Sam Spade?

Speaker 2 No, Big Sleep is Philip Marlowe.

Speaker 1 Philip Marlowe. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Right, okay. Yeah, so Philip Marlowe is right.

Speaker 1 But it it was redone with

Speaker 1 what's Barbara Streisand's first husband? Elliot Gould.

Speaker 1 Redone.

Speaker 1 No, no, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 2 Was it not? I don't want to be a nerd here, but

Speaker 2 Sam Spade is Dashielle Hammett, and that was the

Speaker 2 Falcon.

Speaker 2 And Maltese Falcon is a remake that had been made

Speaker 1 twice before horribly.

Speaker 2 And then John Hewson showed up and nailed it. Oh, really? And then Howard Hawks made The Big Sleep, and that's Philip Marlowe, which is Robert Chandler.

Speaker 2 Elliot Gould

Speaker 2 did The Long Goodbye, which is another Raymond Chandler. Okay.
And that movie is incredible, and especially it's incredible. Go back and watch it and think of it as

Speaker 2 Philip Marlow has for some reason zapped forward in time to early 70s L.A.

Speaker 2 and can't quite handle that he's zapped forward in time and is just kind of bullshing his way through it. It is, there are so many brilliant things going on in that movie.

Speaker 1 The original.

Speaker 2 The one that Robert Altman did. Robert Altman.
But what I'm saying is the base. The remake.
They toured the base.

Speaker 1 But Robert Altman did the long goodbye?

Speaker 2 Robert Altman did the long goodbye.

Speaker 1 Okay. It's so good.
Well, he has a very distinctive style.

Speaker 2 Yes. And he.
You either love it, you know, MASH.

Speaker 2 MASH,

Speaker 2 it's great, but when you go back and watch it, you forget how absolutely mean-spirited that film was. It's about a bunch of people that are basically in hell and they're just eating each other alive.

Speaker 1 I like the TV show better.

Speaker 1 Because that's me.

Speaker 2 The movie is brilliant, but the best Altman is McCabe and Mrs. Miller and it's not even close.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's Warren Beatty. Oh, yeah.
Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 Have you seen McCabe and Mrs. Miller?

Speaker 1 I'm sure I did a million years ago. Bill.
I know. It's a Western, there's a whore,

Speaker 2 right? Yeah, he's trying to build a whorehouse.

Speaker 1 He's trying to build a whorehouse?

Speaker 2 Bill, how have you not seen that? This is like,

Speaker 1 I think I just heard it?

Speaker 2 There's a guy trying to build a whorehouse in a little town.

Speaker 1 I'm going to watch it tonight right after I listen to DJ Harvey.

Speaker 2 And Julie Christie shows up and hands him his ass. And it's like, you don't know what you're doing.
Here's what you got to do. And it's.

Speaker 1 But the important part in real life is that he was fucking it.

Speaker 1 Well, why?

Speaker 2 Look, if you're, by the way, if you're Warren Beatty and Julie Christie in the early 70s, you both look at each other and go, we should fuck each other. I mean,

Speaker 1 what do we do at this point? We're the hottest people on the planet. What are we supposed to do?

Speaker 2 But getting back to the big sleep, and I'll make it really quick. They toured a version of it where they toured the Howard Hawks cut where they tried to stay close to the novel.

Speaker 2 And there's the studio cut where the studio came in and went, more banter between Bogey and McCall.

Speaker 1 Don't worry about the plot.

Speaker 2 Just have these two. And that movie, their banter is sexy in today's terms.
It's like so flagrant. And you're like, I can't believe.
Did audiences not know what they were talking about? You know,

Speaker 2 you watch the version that Howard Hawks shot and cut where he's like, I want this to adhere to the plot. You're like, sometimes the studio is right.

Speaker 2 Sometimes the studio comes in and goes, just these two flirting with each other.

Speaker 1 The studio is often right because it's their money. Well,

Speaker 2 I'm going to disagree.

Speaker 1 No,

Speaker 1 not always.

Speaker 1 But like, who cut the godfather?

Speaker 1 I don't know if it was. I mean, Robert Evans said it was him.

Speaker 2 Well, Robert Evans, let's take everything he said with a grain of salt for the gods. I mean, yes, Robert Evans, yes, he says he was the guy who rescued the godfather.

Speaker 2 He's also the guy that made Jade and the in-laws and Phase 4 for God's sakes.

Speaker 1 He's not, let's not go to him for, yeah, what's great cinema, Robert?

Speaker 2 I remember one time. And that's what I was saying.

Speaker 1 I told, I told Kubla, you made a movie and

Speaker 2 you cut a drive-through movie and you made a dick. You got to go back.
You got to cut a dick.

Speaker 2 that's what you got to do that's a dead on Robert Evans well I do a whole nother toot my own horn I do a whole bit because I was obsessed with Robert Evans audiobook the kids we all were I would drive the Hollywood Hills just listening to it over and over again and I do a whole bit about him because near the end remember at the end of his life when he did those radio ads for ESPN and they were so nonsensical and it almost had nothing to do with sports I was just like that guy should be hawking everything you know Bob Odenkirk used to do a bit.

Speaker 1 Oh. Do you know the bit? Well, they're just thinking.

Speaker 1 As Robert Evans. Sunsets? I make plenty of them, baby.
This is

Speaker 2 dedicated to my son, Jesus. I learned something from you every day.

Speaker 2 He did this. But I did my Robert Evans for Mr.
Show. He did Robert Evans.

Speaker 1 Anyway.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's such a good Robert Evans. Oh, well, because you basically what I say is.
It's such a great character in habit.

Speaker 2 Well, also, because he did so much Coke, he was left with one

Speaker 1 vampire disco Coke nostril at the end of his life Like what the fuck is he gonna there's no other way for him to talk

Speaker 2 I remember one time I was doing a film

Speaker 2 Bride Daddy he came into my trailer

Speaker 2 and he punched me right in the solar plexus and I ejaculated my central nervous system

Speaker 2 And that's like you just this story's made no sense. I used to go over to his house Wait, you met him met him Did you hang on the road?

Speaker 1 He was in his bed a lot.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he was always in his bed.

Speaker 1 He was always in his bed. I mean, I I know that sounds like salacious, but nothing was going on there.
No, he said he did all his business.

Speaker 1 There were eight people like watching some silly movie he wanted us to watch or some silly like

Speaker 1 semi- You got to do that? Oh, many times.

Speaker 2 God fucking damn it. I'm going to need three more bottles of Scotch.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So he would, I had a friend that took a meeting over at his house. You know, the house with all the flowers and the fountain.

Speaker 1 Oh, I know it. Well.
That Jack Nicholson bought for him.

Speaker 2 Because remember he lost the house and Jack Nicholson went, I'm buying it back for you.

Speaker 1 Is that the hot tub where Jack Nicholson

Speaker 1 pimped out?

Speaker 1 Who's this?

Speaker 1 No, that was at Nicholson's house.

Speaker 2 That was not it.

Speaker 1 Hey, who am I thinking? Let's not bespurch Robert Evans here, okay?

Speaker 2 No, no, no, but no, you're thinking of Roman Polanski.

Speaker 1 Roman Polanski. It was in Nicholson's hot tub.
It was in Nicholson's hot tub. Yes.
See, if you leave a bar and you're drunk, they can sue the bar.

Speaker 1 I'm not sure that shouldn't apply to hot tubs, and I love Jack Nicholson, Nicholson, but I'm just asking as a question.

Speaker 1 Like, if someone gets fucked in the ass in your hot tub, or is the hot tub owner somewhat responsible?

Speaker 2 See, these are the cases the Supreme Court should be hearing, not this bullshit about we're litigating the 2020 election.

Speaker 1 We need to bring back the.

Speaker 2 A friend of mine had a meeting over at Robert Evans' house. He was pitching them something.
And at one point, she went to use, she goes, I need the restroom.

Speaker 1 He goes, well, it's down the hole, to the right and he

Speaker 2 she goes on the hall she passes a room and there's this huge dining room at the end of the table slash from guns and roses is sitting there eating sausages no one's around him he's just eating sausages and then she went and then she went back and she felt like if it was and it was like 1 30 in the afternoon she goes I felt like if it was 1.30 and Slash wasn't eating sausages, something had gone horribly wrong.

Speaker 2 On the way back, did you see Slash eating sausages?

Speaker 1 No, I didn't see anybody.

Speaker 2 Okay, I gotta go call the police right now because something's gone terribly wrong.

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Speaker 1 No,

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 show people.

Speaker 2 There's no people like show people.

Speaker 1 There are not. There really are not.
I mean, that's literally true. If people think that they are different, you're right.
Like, that whole stars are just like us. They're not.
No. They're

Speaker 1 not.

Speaker 1 Why?

Speaker 1 For both good and bad.

Speaker 2 Exactly. Good and bad.

Speaker 1 I mean, they are.

Speaker 2 Athletes are not like us.

Speaker 1 Everyone

Speaker 1 that

Speaker 2 criticizes, oh my God, Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan needed to be as crazy as he was to be the champion.
He needed to think he was a great guy.

Speaker 1 Why do you think he's crazy? Because he got a lot of pussy?

Speaker 2 No, because the way he thought about it, he could not ever lose. It was a mania with him, but it made him what he was.
He was a,

Speaker 2 he had that genius.

Speaker 2 But when you're touched by that genius,

Speaker 2 a lot of people, they try to make bargains with it. Like, oh, I got to be normal.

Speaker 1 And he's like, but I'm not normal.

Speaker 2 Right. I'm a genius and I'm at another level and I'm just going to accept it.

Speaker 1 Right. And that's also why he loved gambling.

Speaker 2 He could. I mean, that, but that's what made him brilliant.

Speaker 1 The gambling? Yeah.

Speaker 1 No, no, no.

Speaker 2 Kids, you know, gambling is

Speaker 2 a shortcut to greatness. No.

Speaker 1 He couldn't.

Speaker 2 He couldn't not be the best in the room.

Speaker 2 Remember that there's that, weren't they shooting like free throws and everyone he missed, like these kids would get like a certain amount of money for like some orphanage? And he didn't miss it.

Speaker 2 He was like,

Speaker 1 but I'm.

Speaker 1 I'm Michael Jordan.

Speaker 2 You picked the wrong guy to do this. Anyone else would happily go, whoops.
And he's like, but I'm afraid of it.

Speaker 1 You know, it was kind of like that was Obama. He used to have this pickup game, pickup game.
I thought he was

Speaker 1 that he would do. No, quite the opposite, that he would do for pleasure.
Obviously, it's like, you know, like some people,

Speaker 1 Trump plays golf 10 times a week.

Speaker 1 he obama didn't play golf he wanted to play basketball yeah but instead of just having the kind of game i have here when i play a pickup game which is relaxed and fun and we don't

Speaker 1 we're being goofballs and we know he it was like ex-nba players and they had a ref and it was full court and he would only and he would only take like three shots a game it's like Why is that fun?

Speaker 1 You have the weight of the world on your shoulders and then you play this super serious game.

Speaker 1 But again, it's your point they can't let it go that's

Speaker 1 they're the scorpion that's who i am but sometimes that is what makes a champion that's what of course certain people have to do that right we need that i mean he was that he like the way he was able to never take the bait i mean they tried every which way to get him to be the stereotype they wanted him to be after a while it was so clear he was having so much fun doing that he could see them putting the bait on the hook from miles away, like, oh, okay, I'm going to let them think I'm getting close.

Speaker 1 I'm just going to fucking I'm not sure it was always that much fun having to do it.

Speaker 2 No, it was fun for us to watch.

Speaker 1 For him, I'm sure he was like

Speaker 1 enraged. I remember once it was just such a, I love that moment.
It was a state of the union.

Speaker 2 I know the one you're talking about. Really? And he goes, I have no more races to run.
And they all started clapping. He goes, I know, because I want them.
Exactly.

Speaker 1 You're right. Yeah.
We could be married.

Speaker 1 You're finishing my sentences. Meredith, let's do it.
Listen, we got to. No, he said, yeah, and I won both of them.

Speaker 1 It was like

Speaker 1 it was like the ultimate mic drop, fuck you, here's my dick in your ass moment.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 And the fact that he was so restrained at ever doing that and then did it just at the right moment. I mean, he's on a level.

Speaker 1 I always said he was the Jackie Robinson of American politics because he was.

Speaker 1 Not only because he broke the color barrier, but because he did it the way Jackie Robinson did, which was you can't take the base. Unflappable.
They're going to scream at you in Cincinnati.

Speaker 1 When you're on first base,

Speaker 1 the whole stadium is going to be yelling the N-word, and you just have to forget about it and steal second.

Speaker 2 And yeah, I mean. And he did.
It was so.

Speaker 1 And Obama did.

Speaker 2 Nothing was more fun than when

Speaker 2 they think they would find something that would own him, like the picture of him in college smoking. And they would release the photos.

Speaker 2 And it was the coolest fucking photo you've like, I would, I would pay a stylist a thousand dollars and they would not make me look that good. And he's just sitting in a dorm having a cigarette.

Speaker 2 Like, you wouldn't, and then like the next day, they're like, never mention again because everyone's like, guy looks fucking awesome.

Speaker 1 Fuck, god damn it.

Speaker 2 Like, I just love every attempt to try to own him just backfired so horribly.

Speaker 2 And by the way, it was the same thing with AOC. Remember when they found the damning video of AOC

Speaker 2 dancing and drinking with her friends on the roof at college? They're like, and

Speaker 1 this is a Congress person.

Speaker 2 And she looks so happy and beautiful and cool. And you're like, oh, they think this is ending her career because they never did this.
Yeah, but they were never that comfortable to do this.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And if she had some deprogramming, she could be such a fantastic candidate.

Speaker 2 What do you mean deprogramming?

Speaker 1 Well, she just doesn't,

Speaker 1 she's never going to resonate with people outside of the bubble that she lives in, in the very, very far left.

Speaker 1 Well, and that, I mean, the New York Times, of all people, the people I've been like squabbling with for the last seven, eight, ten years, whatever, when I was all about, you know, Democrats have gone too far left, they just put out a huge editorial basically saying exactly what I've been saying.

Speaker 2 What, that she's too far left?

Speaker 1 Yes, and that the only way the Democrats will ever win again, not that the Republicans are probably going to give it back, is to be more moderate. But we don't have to argue about her.

Speaker 1 I mean, she has to be able to do that.

Speaker 2 If people think she's too far left, then that shows another way this country's broken right now.

Speaker 1 Well, I don't think it's necessarily broken in that way, but it just shows how the country is not there. That is not where the country is.
And if you don't.

Speaker 2 Unfortunately, Unfortunately,

Speaker 2 that's the one thing, and I hate to admit this. This country is not as mature as it thinks it is.
We elected Obama, and clearly the country freaked out. And we're still living in that freak out.

Speaker 2 We are not as progressed and evolved and intelligent as we think we are because we keep freaking out about this stuff.

Speaker 1 Well, you know, the left freak out too. The left freaked out about a lot of bullshit, too.

Speaker 2 What do they freak out about?

Speaker 1 Gender, race,

Speaker 1 parenthood, schools,

Speaker 1 homelessness,

Speaker 1 crime, the border, education.

Speaker 1 Like, we were not, we stopped being a scientific people. Like,

Speaker 1 it's not scientific to.

Speaker 2 But the left certainly stayed scientific.

Speaker 1 No, they didn't.

Speaker 2 Why not?

Speaker 1 Because they think gender bullshit that they went way too far with, that's not scientific.

Speaker 1 But how do you and I'm not trying to

Speaker 2 they go too far with like gender stuff?

Speaker 1 And I'm not sure.

Speaker 1 Instead of, well,

Speaker 1 if I was teaching children, what I would teach them is there is a default setting for the human being, which is heterosexuality, but not, that doesn't mean every person is that.

Speaker 1 And we should completely respect everyone who isn't that.

Speaker 1 But we understand that that's called a minority. And what makes us a great country is that we respect minorities.
We don't think they're lesser just because they're lesser in numbers.

Speaker 1 That's not what we started to teach, which was that every baby is, I don't know, let's not even put it on the birth certificate. That's what they wanted.

Speaker 2 Were we teaching that?

Speaker 1 Yes. When were we teaching that? We were teaching it.
It was a law here in California. See? To teach what?

Speaker 1 Don't put sex on the birth certificate. We'll see.

Speaker 1 Now we've passed that period now.

Speaker 2 I'm sorry, I don't remember that.

Speaker 1 I know because it doesn't get in the blue sky bubble.

Speaker 1 I'm not just on blue sky.

Speaker 1 I really think that's a lot of it, is that some of this stuff doesn't get in to everybody's media.

Speaker 2 I'm just, I'm of a mind, because I remember

Speaker 2 the African-American community was always saying there's brutality from the cops. Everyone said, oh, that's ridiculous.
Stop it. This is all myth.

Speaker 2 And then cops started wearing body cameras and lo and behold. there's all this footage of violence towards black people.

Speaker 1 There was also a lot of footage of violence that they did on white people, but that didn't make it into videos. You see, nobody cared about that.
Not that it excuses the other.

Speaker 2 I'm just saying, whenever a minority expresses fear and trepidation and, like, hey, please help us. This is going on.
I tend now to believe them. I tend not to believe the minority.

Speaker 2 I always believe whenever they say, hey, this is going on and this is really terrifying.

Speaker 2 Now, if you're saying the left went too far with gender, maybe that was a function of okay these people are are scared they're being targeted and they're being we're watching them be targeted right now we're watching transgender people be targeted in a very aggressive way so we are where

Speaker 1 are they being targeted i mean they're like like everybody is being targeted to a degree i feel like but not scapegoated the way that transgender people are scapegoated for what

Speaker 2 who's scapegoated every every school every shooting is a transgender person

Speaker 2 And that's how they frame it, though. And that's how they're...
You talked about my blue sky bubble, but the News Max, Owan, Fox bubble is, that's what's feeding those people.

Speaker 1 Sweetheart, my editorial last week was tearing, you called me sweetheart. It was tearing Fox News a new asshole.
Good. Because they reported.
on this.

Speaker 1 I'm not saying you're doing this. I'm just saying in general.
I'm just saying it pissed me off so much that I did a whole thing on it

Speaker 1 where, you know, I had done an editorial a couple weeks earlier, which was about, let's have a grand bargain where the woke stops with their far-left bullshit on the woke stuff, and the right wing stops being authoritarian and trying to just change the nature of this country.

Speaker 1 And they only reported the first half. You know, they only reported the part where I was tearing the left into asshole.
And I said, you fucking liars, stop doing this. You do this every week.

Speaker 1 Because

Speaker 2 they want you on their side. They want any celebrity.

Speaker 1 They want to please their readers and listeners.

Speaker 2 But they also want to say, Bill's on our side. Correct.
He gets it.

Speaker 1 Correct. But the left wing does it to me, too, because they want people to think I'm a conservative.
So they'll only report the part that I say about criticizing the left, which is just as gross.

Speaker 1 It's all gross. Anytime you're lying, you're gross to me.
You're an asshole, and I hate you. Just be honest, and whatever it is,

Speaker 1 we can talk. But once you start lying, I'm over you.
I'm completely over you.

Speaker 1 So, you know, sincere disagreements, yes. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Anyway, we're going to disagree on this, but

Speaker 1 that's fine. That's fine.

Speaker 1 That's what friends do.

Speaker 2 But also, it just feels like, have you, I mean, obviously you've heard the term extinction burst.

Speaker 1 Extinction burst.

Speaker 2 Where before a thing dies, like let's say the dinosaurs, that's when they become the loudest and the most. violent and crazy.

Speaker 2 And it's like right before the Civil Rights Act passed, that's when the hoses and the dogs and the billy clubs came out because they knew the change was coming.

Speaker 2 Just like you said earlier, an audience can be this weird organism that the dominant people can kind of sense and they guide the thing.

Speaker 2 When an extinction burst comes, that side,

Speaker 2 in this case, the old, very, very conservative, very, very kind of anti-gay, anti-world side, knows that its time is becoming limited. So they do their biggest, loudest, most violent,

Speaker 2 thing. And I feel like that's what we're seeing right now.

Speaker 1 There is definitely a lot of that for sure. There is definitely a lot of, oh, this country is becoming something we don't recognize anymore.
And some of that is valid.

Speaker 1 I mean, what's going on in England right now is that, is a lot of that.

Speaker 2 What's going on in England?

Speaker 1 Again, not in the bubble.

Speaker 1 It doesn't get in the bubble. Don't wait, but it really doesn't.
It's a big.

Speaker 1 I don't even want to start with it, but it's like just a lot of

Speaker 1 violence,

Speaker 1 protests,

Speaker 1 immigration,

Speaker 1 cities that Andrew Sullivan, for example, says are places that my grandfather would not even recognize anymore as British.

Speaker 1 Like immigration is great.

Speaker 1 Anything can be too much.

Speaker 1 And like, it's become Islamicized, to put it

Speaker 2 briefly. Anything can be too much, but a lot of times the way that things are

Speaker 2 framed and

Speaker 2 represented is also amplified so that they can make their point.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 do you know about the,

Speaker 1 what do they call it, when they

Speaker 1 get kids to

Speaker 1 grooming, the grooming scandal?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 1 See, that's a big story.

Speaker 2 This is in the UK.

Speaker 1 Yes, that went on from like the 80s to the present, and it wasn't a joke. You're like the royal family.
No, I'm not.

Speaker 1 I'm I'm talking about Pakistani men who are immigrants, who are grooming poor, impoverished white girls mostly in these things and making them into prostitutes and sex slaves and like really nasty shit that would pass for more normal in a traditional Pakistani society where women are not considered equal citizens.

Speaker 1 And if you don't understand that, and that gender apartheid is the number one issue that you woke people should be concerned with but seem not to be,

Speaker 1 then right away, we're not really seeing the world as the same way. And I think I'm seeing it much more clearly.

Speaker 1 Gender apartheid should be your number one issue. If you really care about oppression, like a lot, I'm talking about hundreds of millions of the world's women.

Speaker 1 And it's mostly because of the tenets of Islam, to be perfectly honest about it. And this is what's going on in England, and this is why England is having a big problem these days.

Speaker 1 Because in the interest of DEI,

Speaker 1 they are allowing practices that are so illiberal, which is the great irony. This is the least liberal thing you could be is treating women as a second-class citizen and

Speaker 1 getting away with shit like this.

Speaker 2 I'm not, yeah. I'm not someone that wants to slam a steel door down on stuff that I don't know about or agree with.
We have each other's emails. I'll read, send me stuff to read.

Speaker 1 And I'll read it.

Speaker 1 BJ Harvey.

Speaker 1 And we'll be totally even. You're really

Speaker 1 read up about UK.

Speaker 2 No, no, but what I'm saying is a lot of the legitimate things that you're probably talking about right now are also being weaponized and amplified to use against people in this country that shouldn't be being attacked right now or vilified or made to feel unsafe.

Speaker 1 But it concerns me that this didn't get on your radar. Because if something can't get on your radar, somebody who is as perceptive, intelligent,

Speaker 1 understanding of what a broad perspective is. But when you say my radar,

Speaker 2 what am I not reading or seeing?

Speaker 2 Where is this being reported?

Speaker 1 I'll tell you. Yeah, let me know.

Speaker 2 I read The Guardian. I read the

Speaker 2 far left.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, okay, far left, but it's still

Speaker 2 standards.

Speaker 1 But they don't. They don't.

Speaker 2 But if you're telling me to read The Sun, I'm not going to read the Sun about this.

Speaker 1 The free press.

Speaker 1 there's a place that plays it both ways okay um but i want to go back to something more important

Speaker 1 you say the dinosaurs went apeshit at the end i mean i want to know exactly what that looked like you say the dinosaurs because they knew the end was coming yeah like what are we talking about well they started their podcast went crazy no um

Speaker 2 it was that idea when when when the after whatever the media hit down in um was it new mexico or arizona and the climate started changing, suddenly these weird little furry mutant mammal things that were hiding in the bushes while the lizards roamed the,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 2 the savannah or whatever the humid thing was,

Speaker 2 they did, you know, I'm sure the last Triceratops or

Speaker 2 T-Rex, I don't know what different epochs they were in.

Speaker 2 I know there was the Jurassic and the cetacean and stuff like that, but I'm sure the last one that went down in the tar pit made the loudest noise.

Speaker 2 And then the quiet little mammals came in, and then we, that was us. That was us hiding in the bushes, waiting for these terrifying lizards to go away.
And then we took over.

Speaker 1 We weren't around.

Speaker 1 There was no us.

Speaker 2 No, no, our ancestors were.

Speaker 2 Those little furry, stinky mammals in the bush, that was our business.

Speaker 1 Stinky mammals, not people. No, no, no, no, no, not people, but it's all part of a community.
Because you're talking about 250 million years ago. Yes.
And when did humans make their emergence?

Speaker 1 Like 100,000 years ago. I mean, very re Homo sapiens are very recent.
Right. You know, I mean, humans.

Speaker 2 And the Anthropocene is even more recent. Where we actually get to affect the planet is even more recent.

Speaker 1 I mean, Lucy, remember when they found her? Yeah, Lucy the fossil? Lucy was 2.5 million years ago. So again, that's a long way from the dinosaurs.
Right. But Lucy was,

Speaker 1 they found her, what, in the 80s, about four foot two woman,

Speaker 1 but she was

Speaker 1 this

Speaker 1 humanoid, like walked walked upright,

Speaker 1 but short and to the point.

Speaker 1 Short and to the point.

Speaker 2 I'm just saying that we are seeing, when you say humanoid, we are seeing blank, I don't know what the term is, oid version of where humanity and culture is going to evolve to in the next hundred years.

Speaker 2 And the people that can't let go of that. And it gets back to my thing about John Wayne and the searchers.

Speaker 2 There needs to be a generation that is maybe Gen X will be able to do that to walk the fuck away and go. I did my part.
I'm going to get the fuck out of the way.

Speaker 1 I got to see the searchers. You've never seen the searchers and I feel bad about it.
Well, no, no, really? I'm again.

Speaker 2 Is it John Ford? John Ford, John Wayne. And I'm really jealous you've never seen the searchers.

Speaker 1 Because I have the experience and you don't. You're going to get, fuck, you're going to get.
I've seen that movie.

Speaker 1 I'm actually really pissed.

Speaker 2 You're going to get to see the searchers. Right.

Speaker 2 I'll have you over.

Speaker 2 I have a little screening room in my house. I want to watch the searchers with you.
I want to see how you react to it.

Speaker 1 Oh, God. Because that is where it starts.

Speaker 2 No, it's not going to.

Speaker 1 Okay. Meredith.
I see where this is going to be. It's not going to.

Speaker 2 No, you're in love with your wife.

Speaker 1 I saw you out together. Oh, my gosh.
Yeah, we were.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we had that dinner and you were like...

Speaker 2 That's awesome. You were luxurious.

Speaker 1 Do you know that word?

Speaker 2 Uxurious. I don't know that word.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 2 What's uxurious?

Speaker 1 It's luxurious without the L, and it means excessively devoted to your wife.

Speaker 2 I can't take my eyes off of her.

Speaker 1 That's ugurious. She is, yeah.
You should put that in a card to her.

Speaker 2 I'm going to, I got to say, I am, I treat, I treat you luxuriously and, and always will.

Speaker 1 Wow. Yeah.
And do you get rewarded for that, I hope?

Speaker 2 Um,

Speaker 1 hopefully, this will be the thing that pushes me over the edge.

Speaker 2 Um,

Speaker 2 by the way, she, um, She was one of the last people that saw Ursula before he died.

Speaker 1 I watched The Third Man last night.

Speaker 2 No shit.

Speaker 1 He didn't direct it. No.

Speaker 1 I always thought he did.

Speaker 1 His company.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 he wrote the whole Cuckoo Clock monologue, which is one of the best monologues ever.

Speaker 1 Ever. Ever.

Speaker 1 Unbelievable. Unbelievable.

Speaker 1 And that ending sequence in The Sewers, which they've redone, not redone, but ripped off. Not only have they redone.
Marathon Man, there's other ones where they're in the sewers.

Speaker 2 Oh, they've reused.

Speaker 1 Now everybody wants to be in the sewer.

Speaker 2 They've reused that footage in movies. I just watched a terrible Lon Cheney movie called The Indestructible Man, and they use shots from the third man in the sewers as they're chasing him.

Speaker 2 They're just like, well, we need the couple of shots. We're not going to go down the sewers.
Let's just use

Speaker 2 Carol Reed did it.

Speaker 1 I'm very curious. When you get into bed with your luxurious wife and you decide at the end of the night, what are we going to watch, right? Because every couple has to do.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 What do you, now you just said you watched, what did you just watch?

Speaker 2 Oh, I didn't watch her. I didn't watch The Indestructible Man with my wife.

Speaker 1 She's like, I'm not fucking watching.

Speaker 1 How do you decide what to watch when you have these kind of cultivated tastes that you do? We will.

Speaker 1 Like, I don't have this problem. Well, that's actually because I'm not cultured like you.

Speaker 2 Either we will watch.

Speaker 2 Something new. We went and saw one battle after the other in VistaVision at the Vista.
Did you see that in a theater?

Speaker 1 No, I haven't seen it.

Speaker 1 I have not seen it, but I am prepared to see on it.

Speaker 2 You haven't seen it.

Speaker 1 I'm prepared to shit on it. You get to see it.
Everybody who I know, who I trust, who saw it, tells me it's too like stupid woke. But I'm reserving judgment.

Speaker 1 I have not seen it. That's not my opinion.

Speaker 2 People who think it's stupid woke do not understand. Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 All right. It's not my opinion.
I haven't seen it. No, no, I know.
I can't wait to see it.

Speaker 2 But again, I'm just saying you'll get to see this.

Speaker 1 It's almost the exact opposite of the truth. I totally can wait to see it.
That's why I don't go to see movies in the theaters because they all come to my bed. Go to the fucking

Speaker 1 visit and see it with a fucking audience. If I was, oh, an audience, I don't want an audience.

Speaker 2 There's a moment at the end of the season.

Speaker 1 You know what? I'll bring an audience into my bedroom. How about that? I'll bring in like 10 people, a focus group.
It's like, you stay over there, you stay over there.

Speaker 2 There's a moment at the end of the searchers. I saw it one year at the New Beverly.
This is back in the 90s, like the fifth time I saw it.

Speaker 2 And there's a very specific moment in that movie when it happens. And the two, the couple, the young 20-something couple behind me gasped.
And

Speaker 2 they were like,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 2 they clearly had that energy about them of like, someone said this movie is important. I should go see it.
And they were watching it. And then they're enthralled with it.

Speaker 2 And then when the thing happens, they were like, oh, fuck. Like, it's amazing.

Speaker 1 It did blow their mind.

Speaker 2 It actually blew their mind.

Speaker 1 And it'll...

Speaker 2 It will blow your mind too, only because

Speaker 2 most of the movies you love from the early 70s are just remakes of The

Speaker 2 Searchers. Searchers.
Close Encounters, Taxi Driver, Hardcore, Star Wars are just remakes of The Searchers.

Speaker 1 That's such a broad buffet. Isn't that insane?

Speaker 2 But when you watch the movie, you're like, this, oh my God, they just kept remakes raking the searchers.

Speaker 1 I don't want to spoil it for myself and the audience and ask what this connecting tissue is that makes the searchers also relevant to those four other movies because they're so different.

Speaker 2 Those movies.

Speaker 2 Someone is there. Someone is trying to rescue someone who does not want to be rescued.
Okay. And the rescuer is more about doesn't realize at the very end, oh, I'm trying to rescue.

Speaker 2 It's something that's missing in me.

Speaker 1 Okay, did you see 50 First Dates?

Speaker 1 Oh my God.

Speaker 1 What the fuck? Because I feel like that's very much the same thing.

Speaker 2 I need to go put my head in a toilet.

Speaker 1 Wait, sorry. No,

Speaker 1 wait.

Speaker 1 No,

Speaker 1 I'm just fucking with you with that one.

Speaker 2 By the way, that's a ridiculously charming movie. The scene where,

Speaker 2 oh my God, why am I blanking? When Nick Schwartzen dives off the

Speaker 2 waterfall,

Speaker 1 charming as hell. Well,

Speaker 1 Drew Barrymore cannot help but be charming.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 2 she is like offensively charming to the point where I think some of her movies were hurt by how charming she was. Like

Speaker 2 she was trying to do some more kind of darker stuff. And it's like, but you're true Barrymore.
Like you're just,

Speaker 2 she just radiates

Speaker 1 sunshine. It's ridiculous.
I know. I mean, I had her here recently, and we sat on that bench there and did the show, and it went for three and a half hours.

Speaker 1 And I thought, oh, we've been here for like an hour. Oh, that's right.
Cause she's so chill and cool. Yeah, and because she used to live here.

Speaker 2 That's right.

Speaker 1 She used to own this room.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 So hang on.

Speaker 2 Is that, wait a minute. Is that why we're getting along? Is that why our beef went? Because she left her essence in this room and we were able to get by all of our.

Speaker 1 No, it's because we're old. It's because we're old.

Speaker 2 We don't give a shit.

Speaker 1 We're older. And we're wiser.

Speaker 2 We're wiser. And also

Speaker 2 you fight about shit.

Speaker 2 I remember exactly what our beef was, by the way.

Speaker 1 Who gives a shit? Yeah, it doesn't matter. You know, it's like, whatever it was, it was probably similar to the little argument we just had.
Yes.

Speaker 1 But now we're not dumb.

Speaker 1 fucking 12-year-olds twats.

Speaker 1 So we said, we're not going to agree on this.

Speaker 1 We're not going to solve that shit. And so what?

Speaker 2 And what are we going to do?

Speaker 1 Like, basically, as I always say to my woke friends, we voted for the same person. You're just why she lost.
Good night.

Speaker 1 What was Judy Tuda? I'm not trying to start.

Speaker 2 What was Judy Tenuda like?

Speaker 1 Judy Tenuda.

Speaker 1 Is Judy still with us? No, she's not.

Speaker 2 By the way, I just went on the road. I had never done Wyoming or Montana.
Those are the only two states I had never done. So I'm like, I I want to do these states.

Speaker 1 I remember when I tried so hard to get you to go to Hawaii with me.

Speaker 2 My schedule fucked me.

Speaker 1 I'm not sure. It wasn't you.

Speaker 2 It was my schedule fucked me.

Speaker 1 Sweetheart, I'm not busting your balls on it. I'm just saying that.
You told me sweetheart twice.

Speaker 1 I'm just telling you that, you know, it's been a while since I wanted to get to know you because that was like the ultimate get to know you trip.

Speaker 2 That would have been great.

Speaker 1 It was perfect.

Speaker 2 And then, by the way,

Speaker 2 talk about getting a kick in the nuts afterwards.

Speaker 2 The show that I couldn't do, didn't like Eddie Vetter and Willie Nelson show up to it?

Speaker 1 It was like this. They showed up every year.

Speaker 2 Every stoner like show.

Speaker 1 Every year, because Eddie went on vacation there. Yeah.
Every year he opened the show for me and at the end we would sing Smile, the Charlie Chaplin song. And he would

Speaker 2 smile, though your husband's dying.

Speaker 1 Smile.

Speaker 2 Even though you're.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Don't think I didn't get a ton of shit from Meredith about we had a chance to smoke weed with Willie Nelson. What the fuck is wrong with you? So yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 But anyway, I went to Wyoming with Wyoming, Montana with Emo Phillips.

Speaker 2 Have you seen Emo Phillips recently?

Speaker 1 Can I tell you my brief Emo story? Yeah.

Speaker 1 I did a show in London and it was like a show that would bring you over there. It was 1992.
I was in the underground? Whatever it was, they paid for the air ticket. Let's go.

Speaker 1 My girlfriend at the time and I were like, let's make a English vacation. We had an awesome English vacation and that started there

Speaker 1 because they paid for the ticket. And Emo was on the show.

Speaker 1 And I remember we went to the rehearsal, and I walked in, like I was scheduled to go next, and they said he's on stage, and it's just sound check.

Speaker 1 And they said, Okay, just tell us what your closing line is. They wanted to know so they could go.
And Emo said,

Speaker 1 and that's my solution to the Jewish question.

Speaker 1 And I thought,

Speaker 1 I thought what you thought about when you said at the beginning of the show, like, oh, maybe that is funnier than me. You know, maybe, maybe I wouldn't have had the guts to say that.

Speaker 2 I was always a fan of his, but I did not realize how fucking good his joke writing was.

Speaker 1 Oh, so good.

Speaker 2 It's like on this.

Speaker 1 Was he kind of Stephen Wright before Stephen Wright?

Speaker 2 Oh, absolutely. He was Mitch Hedberg before Mitch Hedberg.
He was Stephen Wright before Stephen Wright. And he was this weird.

Speaker 2 He hides real darkness inside this whimsical little

Speaker 2 human marionette, and takes, and there's nothing more fun than sitting backstage and watching the audience catch up with how dark the joke was that they just heard because it's from the

Speaker 1 like that one. Like, well, he went on stage and goes, I've never understood.

Speaker 1 I got to do it in his voice.

Speaker 2 I've never understood non-alcoholic beer. That's like giving a child molester a midget in a Boy Scout uniform.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 God.

Speaker 1 Boom, boom, boom.

Speaker 1 Is he still with us?

Speaker 2 Yes, he just.

Speaker 1 Let's get him here.

Speaker 2 You should have him.

Speaker 1 I totally am going to.

Speaker 1 You know him? Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Oh, can you?

Speaker 2 We exchange books all the time. He's a big bibliophile, but he's.

Speaker 1 Is he still going to do shots?

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 But his writing, I know you just had Woody Allen on the show, but can I tell you his Woody Allen joke?

Speaker 1 All right. Please.
Woody Allen

Speaker 2 met Soon Yi when she was nine years old.

Speaker 2 Waited till she was 18 to sleep with her. Patience of a saint.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Oh, I gotta get this guy here.

Speaker 2 There's like, there's not a single ounce of fat on any joke he writes.

Speaker 1 It really is.

Speaker 1 Times changed.

Speaker 2 Well, times change. And also, he was just like, I'm an amazing joke writer.
Why do I now have to learn TikTok?

Speaker 2 I mean, he's learned it.

Speaker 1 I'm that guy, too. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Fortunately, I don't need to.

Speaker 2 Well, yeah.

Speaker 2 But he,

Speaker 2 I mean, he's still like, again, he's beloved. His fans know how amazing he is.
They know, like, the people that come to see him know that he's writing, he's writing the best.

Speaker 2 You know what he reminds me of? He reminds me of, I don't know if you've seen the movie Pig with Nicholas Cage. No.

Speaker 1 Oh, dude.

Speaker 2 I got to, all right. I need to have you over.
We need to fucking educate you. Oh, here we go.
But he's this, like, he's this guy that the people that know know.

Speaker 2 He's this chef that cooks food that will literally, like, change your life. And

Speaker 2 the character in the movie Pig.

Speaker 1 They make a lot of movies about chefs. Well, this one is amazing.
I know, but I feel like this is an overdone right. Bradley Cooper did one.

Speaker 1 Seth Rogan.

Speaker 2 But think about actors. It's about obsessives.
And that's a really interesting thing to get to play. Someone who's truly obsessed.

Speaker 1 See, I'm not a foodie. I think we talked about this.

Speaker 2 I'm a big foodie.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm a big foodie.

Speaker 2 You're not a good person.

Speaker 1 I've talked about this on the nutrition night.

Speaker 2 And you've also said, like, you have a weird diet. Like, you'll have like carrots for lunch.
You're very weird.

Speaker 1 I did not say that.

Speaker 2 should have carrots for lunch but you said you have a weird diet i did read an interview

Speaker 1 but you're making a big leap to carrots for lunch i'm not having carrots

Speaker 1 for breakfast no not breakfast i do have a weird diet that no one would understand well some people would understand it anyway it doesn't matter i mean whatever makes you happy but um i can't even remember like what did what was i what was my big nutritional thing that you picked up on that was good

Speaker 2 you uh said something about

Speaker 2 even

Speaker 2 healthy processed foods, like when you see these

Speaker 2 even the ones that say like it's gluten-free, it's keto, it's paleo,

Speaker 2 there's anything,

Speaker 2 basically you said anything where you open a bag, it's not good. Don't even bother.

Speaker 1 Or a can.

Speaker 2 Yeah, they just don't bother.

Speaker 1 Well, in general.

Speaker 2 It was such an easy metric.

Speaker 2 Like, do you want something that comes out of a can? You can actually buy it fresh. It's like people that go, do you want something on Amazon?

Speaker 2 That product probably is on another website or its own website. You can go buy it there and not, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, there are certain very basic principles about what is actually healthy for you.

Speaker 1 And of course, a lot of it is about freshness and a lot about it was what did get on the food when they were growing it. Yes.
What was growing in the food?

Speaker 2 And then what had to be put on the food when it was then canned and then transported.

Speaker 1 But even the soil is unhealthy now. Even the soil doesn't.
Well,

Speaker 1 it doesn't have the nutrients you need. I mean, I take sulfur.
Like,

Speaker 1 I'm sorry, you take sulfur. Yeah.

Speaker 2 What are you, a demon?

Speaker 1 What are you fucking eating sulfur for? I am Lucifer. I just.

Speaker 1 Sorry.

Speaker 1 I'm sorry. The vision of you up in the Hollywood Hills.

Speaker 2 It's time for my sulfur.

Speaker 2 Sulfur, boy.

Speaker 1 What the fuck?

Speaker 2 You're eating sulfur.

Speaker 1 I know. Yeah.
And I and I drink this jing stuff in my and like me and Whitney Cummings. Did you put that in your booze? Yeah, Whitney Cumming went off on this.

Speaker 2 Oh my God, don't take any advice from Whitney Cummins, though.

Speaker 1 No, but she just was mocking this. It's like, you know, this rich person's tincture that you drink.
And it's like, you know, I mean, I don't think

Speaker 1 people use the word health nut. Like, I don't think I'm the nutty one that wants to somehow make the things that I put into my body

Speaker 1 healthier, purer.

Speaker 2 I don't mean to laugh.

Speaker 2 As a comic book nerd, gingold is what the elongated man puts in his drink to give him his stretching powers.

Speaker 1 And that's what you're fucking.

Speaker 1 Hey, whatever works. By the way, that's a Woody Allen movie.
Whatever works. Whatever works.

Speaker 1 Great one, by the way.

Speaker 2 Whatever Works. Is that the one with Larry David?

Speaker 2 Christina Ricci.

Speaker 2 No. No, no, no.
That's Larry David.

Speaker 1 I just said that. Larry David plays is the surrogate Woody, which is a perfect surrogate Woody.

Speaker 1 Two people who are very unhappy just being alive

Speaker 1 and just aren't happy unless they're unhappy. And, of course, then our carriers.

Speaker 1 Carriers.

Speaker 2 That's a great way to put it.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 yeah, but it's a

Speaker 1 really good movie. And of course,

Speaker 1 so much of art always depends on the original conceit. Is it true and is it real? Is it something we haven't really thought that much about? Whatever works is a great conceit.
Like

Speaker 1 so many people, I think, do the opposite and have diverted interests in what would make a relationship work. And really just get simple.
Whatever works. Or they

Speaker 1 work

Speaker 1 for you. Whatever works for you.
We're all such individuals. It's so idiosyncratic.
What works for you? You got this thing where you're luxurious. Luxurious.
I got this thing where I'm luxurious.

Speaker 1 And luxurious.

Speaker 2 But what's weird is right now, it feels like a lot of the, I'm not even saying this on a political sense, almost on a corporate sense, the people that are in power don't aren't comfortable with people going, I'm just, I'm happy with this.

Speaker 2 They want people to be happy with a very narrow

Speaker 2 set of choices because they can make money off those narrow choices. If someone's like, I don't actually need, I'm good with this over here.
You don't have the latest iPhone.

Speaker 2 You don't have the latest, like, yeah, I don't really need that. I'm actually comfortable with that.

Speaker 1 I certainly don't. Yeah.
I mean, people mock me when they see my phone. They think it's like this.
And I'm like, sweetheart, I used to use a typewriter. Yeah.
That's so fucking.

Speaker 1 You can't like shame me for my phone.

Speaker 2 That's what what I'm trying to go back to, by the way. I'm really going to this.
This is,

Speaker 2 I'm doing this thing where don't look at my phone before 9 a.m. Don't look at my phone after 9 p.m.

Speaker 2 And I'm, is there a way to get a phone that is like a, I guess you'd call it a jitter bug, the old person's phone, where I'm not constantly tempted by hopping online and looking at shit constantly?

Speaker 1 Because there are days I don't look at my phone.

Speaker 2 I don't, how do you do that?

Speaker 1 Because I was raised at a different time. Yeah, so you know,

Speaker 1 It's not native to me. So all of it is a little like doing things left-handed.
Anything with technology.

Speaker 1 You're probably, like most people, a little more

Speaker 1 up-to-date on that things and your brain works better that way.

Speaker 1 I would bet your IQ is higher than mine. Doesn't mean you have more common sense, but your IQ is.

Speaker 2 But I keep tying bags of concrete to my IQ, to the ankles of my IQ with this fucking phone.

Speaker 1 I get that too.

Speaker 1 I don't have to do that. Yes.
Because I'm lucky. I'm not that cultivated.
I'm not that cultured. I'm not that smart.

Speaker 2 But there's IQ within there.

Speaker 1 There's IQ, but

Speaker 2 then there's smart choices and happiness, which is, I think, worth more than IQ in the long run.

Speaker 1 IQ too.

Speaker 1 I feel like there's a happy medium. You know,

Speaker 1 the Greeks used to have a phrase, the golden mean. And the golden mean

Speaker 1 was that mean, like something in the middle

Speaker 1 between two extremes. For example, courage was the golden mean between cowardice and just being stupid about it.

Speaker 1 You know, you could just be stupid about it

Speaker 1 as 12 guys

Speaker 1 and you just run it all of them. Which is courageous, but it's stupid.
So dumb. It's not where the golden mean is.

Speaker 2 True courage has to have some fear in it.

Speaker 1 Like, oh, no, I know this could be terrifying.

Speaker 2 I'm going to do it anyway.

Speaker 1 And smart. Yeah.
You know, let's flank them.

Speaker 2 Is there a way that we don't die doing this? Yeah, that's true courage.

Speaker 1 Larry Miller used to have this great bit about Masada. Remember Masada? Yes.

Speaker 1 It was a true story. I mean, when the Romans

Speaker 1 surrounded the Jews who were holding out in one of the wars, yes, and they were at this.

Speaker 1 You can still visit it.

Speaker 1 It's a fortress on top of a small mountain with a flat-top mountain, and they built this castle there. And of course, they were outnumbered and they knew it was going to end.

Speaker 1 And so they decided, like a thousand people,

Speaker 1 let's just kill ourselves and not let the Romans get us because they'll torture us and

Speaker 1 it'll look bad in the press.

Speaker 1 And Larry's bit was: when they said, okay, let's do this, let's all kill ourselves. One guy must have gone,

Speaker 1 Bill, you had another idea.

Speaker 1 We build a wall.

Speaker 1 That just killed me. Larry Miller.
You had another idea.

Speaker 2 Larry Miller's bit about, what is it, the five levels of drunkenness. Oh.

Speaker 1 It's like

Speaker 2 the perfect. Larry Miller.
It's like the perfect comedic bit.

Speaker 1 Oh, and this.

Speaker 1 When we were young comics, and when I first got to Couch of Rising Star, Larry Miller was doing a ski story about skiing that went on for 20 minutes. Like one.

Speaker 2 And you're captivated.

Speaker 1 I certainly was because I was just trying to get one laugh.

Speaker 1 You know, this was like at the beginning, and I just saw this guy doing an elongated,

Speaker 1 you know, big

Speaker 1 peppered with laughs. Peppered with laughs.
Non-stop. Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's like

Speaker 2 when you would see

Speaker 2 when Gary Goleman went on Conan and he did that whole his Gary Goleman.

Speaker 1 You know so many people I don't know.

Speaker 2 Gary Goleman. Jesus Christ.
He went on Conan and he did his

Speaker 2 stand-up set was just about how do they get the abbreviations for states. And that was his whole fucking set.

Speaker 1 Well, that explains why I don't know who Gary Goldman is.

Speaker 2 Well, what I'm saying is, who are you performing for right now? You're like, I guess that's why I'm not.

Speaker 1 Like, there's your own little audience there waiting for you to do.

Speaker 1 You're the audience. You're it.

Speaker 1 You're it.

Speaker 2 That is so fucking ballsy because that's the only thing he's going to talk about. He killed, by the way.
It killed, but it's like, this doesn't work.

Speaker 2 This is all you have to do he tried it out probably in the club but it was still but in the clubs but you know what it's like when you sometimes you go on those tv sets and it's easier

Speaker 2 well it was when i did to commit to just that though i mean the tonight's your audience

Speaker 1 compared to the clubs i was working in was cake well yeah but but you got to go on with the

Speaker 1 first of all it's not 130 in the morning yeah which i went on many times yeah okay in front of three people okay It's not 1.30 in the morning. It's not after they've seen eight other fucking comics.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's 4.30 in the afternoon or 5.30 in Burbank.

Speaker 1 With people who are so excited to be there.

Speaker 1 And then Johnny Carson saying,

Speaker 1 comedy is the hardest commodity to find, which was bullshit. You couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting a comic in 1982 when I went on that.

Speaker 2 But he wanted to give them the best.

Speaker 1 Exactly. I'm just saying, it's set it up.
And you're doing your best six minutes you ever came up with. Yeah.
It was cake. If you couldn't do that, you didn't belong in show business.

Speaker 1 If you couldn't ace

Speaker 1 the first tonight show,

Speaker 1 you suck.

Speaker 2 But this wasn't Gary's first Conan. This was his fourth or fifth because he's such an amazing comedian.

Speaker 1 Conan is not Carson.

Speaker 2 No, Conan's not Carson, but I think Conan, in a weird way, is what

Speaker 2 it's why Carson loved Letterman so much.

Speaker 2 Carson was Carson, and Letterman was the guy that came along and said and I want to take this to this next level and Conan was the guy who was like I love you Letterman and I want to take you to this next level it was a continuation and if you're a comedian yes that's true I want to be on the bleeding edge of what is good comedy and it really says something right

Speaker 2 my my my teenage daughter and her friends are obsessed with Conan O'Brien not now all his classic stuff from the 90s because it's he was doing brilliant comedy he still is he's and I want to be no he's a genius comic mind Friggin' genius.

Speaker 1 I mean, even hosting the Oscars,

Speaker 1 he did it the right way. You know, he did it really funny.
And no,

Speaker 1 look, I have a tape,

Speaker 1 probably something even you haven't seen that I should, if you're in touch with Conan, have him send it to you. Okay.
It's called Look Well.

Speaker 1 I've seen Look Well. Oh, fuck, of course you have.

Speaker 1 Robert Smigel and Tonan LeBron got wild.

Speaker 1 I'm going to fucking kill

Speaker 1 You know LookWell.

Speaker 2 Come on, man.

Speaker 2 It's the greatest non-picked up pilot in showbiz.

Speaker 2 Besides the bakery.

Speaker 1 I would like 10 other people in the world to know

Speaker 1 Lookwell. Really?

Speaker 1 All my friends know Lookwell.

Speaker 2 All the comedians do.

Speaker 2 It is friggin' brilliant.

Speaker 2 And now

Speaker 2 when you re-watch it, it's like, this is actually kind of realistic, as goofy as they tried to make it. I could could see it was a parody

Speaker 1 of the detective shows of the 70s and 80s, like Manics.

Speaker 2 But it was a guy who played one of those guys

Speaker 2 who is now

Speaker 1 Adam West, Batman, Adam West, who was a TV TV detective. Yes.

Speaker 2 Although a ridiculous TV detective.

Speaker 1 Right, but just like they were all in those days.

Speaker 1 And now it's later, it's like the 90s.

Speaker 2 And now he's teaching an acting class.

Speaker 1 He's teaching an acting class and wants to actually help out solving crimes.

Speaker 2 And the police, I love how in the pilot, even the police, like, oh, God, here comes Lookwell again.

Speaker 2 And he's so not helpful. It's

Speaker 2 that, oh my God, that thing is so great.

Speaker 1 Look well. It's one of the best.
It's so amazing. Do you remember when he says to his secretary, like,

Speaker 1 can you get me that

Speaker 1 curtain

Speaker 1 hair dye? And she's like,

Speaker 1 oh, no, no.

Speaker 1 They don't make that number anymore.

Speaker 1 So brutal.

Speaker 2 Yeah, there's those lines. I mean, he's

Speaker 1 an amazing comic marker.

Speaker 2 Truly comic.

Speaker 2 But you want to be on. I remember this great thing.

Speaker 2 Remember that there was that book about the first book of like... photographs of comedians.
It was almost like an Annie Leibowitz thing. And it was like,

Speaker 2 it came out in the 80s, but there was a picture of Carson and Letterman together.

Speaker 2 And because Carson loved Letterman, and there was this great line about, if you went on Carson and did well, you could be famous.

Speaker 2 But if you went on Letterman and didn't do well, you would never be cool. And those were the differences.
And not that either one is more important than the other, but there is that

Speaker 2 difference. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 Oh,

Speaker 1 I vividly remember when Letterman came on the scene, and it was,

Speaker 1 you know, the passing of the guard. You know, it was,

Speaker 1 I mean, Johnny, who was the greatest for his era,

Speaker 1 was not any, it's like your thing with the searchers, you know, your time is past. I mean, he was.

Speaker 2 But he was of that generation. He wasn't the boomers.
He was a generation before. It's like, time to walk away.
And when he walked away, he walked away.

Speaker 2 You never saw him again. Never saw him again.
And that's what increased his legend.

Speaker 2 And people don't realize you can do that with your, that can be part of your arc, but everyone is so addicted to trying to get the clicks, the likes, the hits.

Speaker 1 It was also because he had emphysema.

Speaker 2 Well, yeah, he could barely talk.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that also didn't help. So let's not guild a little.

Speaker 1 And I was his biggest fan. You know, I never missed The Tonight Show from the age of like 12 to 24.
You know what? Whether I was home, in high school, in college, like it was.

Speaker 2 You know what bummed me out about his last year at The Tonight Show is because that last last year when he announced he was going to retire, Southern Turbo.

Speaker 1 Floyd R. Turbo.

Speaker 2 No. What pissed me off was

Speaker 2 the thing that was amazing about Carson was the nights when it didn't go well. He was the king of making it something horrible.

Speaker 2 And so those nights when his monologue would beat it and he would do that desperation thing.

Speaker 1 Dunno.

Speaker 2 And every comedian watching was like, I've had, I was at the Cask and and Cleaver and Lodi last week. That was me.
But at the end, he never, because now it was all standing ovations.

Speaker 2 Like, I want the, no, the thing that's great about him is the night, is the Wednesday night when he's got three shit guests and a terrible monologue, and he's still going to make it entertaining.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, when the real Carson came out, and the real Carson was kind of mean. Oh, boy.

Speaker 1 You say it like he fucked you in the ass. No, no, no.
Oh, boy.

Speaker 2 You could see the meanness sometimes.

Speaker 1 when it came out, I mean, and that's who he was.

Speaker 1 I mean, I read Bushkin's

Speaker 1 memoir about it, and it reads so true.

Speaker 2 And apparently, a way worse drinking problem than Ed.

Speaker 1 He lived life to the fullest and then was like, you know, and smoked. You know, he was just like, I'm going to go out strong.
I'm going to do what I want to do.

Speaker 1 I was in World War II. I'm going to smoke, okay?

Speaker 1 And that was, he was a, he was a badass. I mean, beneath the genteel Midwestern guy who was super gracious.
I mean, if anything, he was gracious. And what was one reason why he was so successful.

Speaker 2 And also really had comedians' backs.

Speaker 1 Oh. Always.
Totally had mine. Yeah.
There was once when they wanted to fucking cut my head off and he saved my ass. Really? Yeah, I made Reagan jokes that they didn't like.

Speaker 1 And his producer, Fred DeCordover, was the director of

Speaker 1 Bonzo.

Speaker 1 What? Bedtime for Bonzo. He directed that? Yeah, Fred DeQuarterville directed Bedtime for Bonzo.
So he thought he was Reagan's best friend. So I just did jokes that were not cool to them.

Speaker 1 And Johnny saved my ass. Nobody else could have.
So yes, he did have, he loved comedians.

Speaker 2 That's true. Yeah, yeah.
Really had their backs.

Speaker 2 But he also, you're right, he's from that generation where...

Speaker 2 He used to have that bit. One of my favorite bits was the whole thing about Mr.
Salty Pretzels.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. Which is like everything right now is like my first.
No salt and no salt.

Speaker 2 You're like, fuck Mr.

Speaker 1 Salty Pretzels. And for the makers of Mr.

Speaker 2 Tar and Nicotine Sig, like there was that generation that was just like, nothing can kill us.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it was just, fuck you. Fuck off.

Speaker 1 Johnny would play tennis and he'd, you know, smoke between

Speaker 2 to barely breathe.

Speaker 1 Smoke between games.

Speaker 2 I love that

Speaker 2 at the end of David Lynch's life, because smoking killed him. Emphysema is what killed him.
And he's like,

Speaker 2 but

Speaker 2 the way he said it was like, yeah, it has curtailed my life, but I got so much pleasure from smoking. Well, he just like he owned it.
Like, I loved it.

Speaker 1 I mean, my parents smoked. Somehow I avoided it all the way through until I was 20 and in college and stupidly took up the habit from 20.

Speaker 2 Oh, you did?

Speaker 1 From 20 to 40, yeah.

Speaker 1 But I can't deny that maybe one reason I did was that people did look cool smoking in movies. And Johnny.

Speaker 2 The people that knew

Speaker 1 Johnny my hero sometimes you'd catch him as they came back from he would do that he would hide his fucking cigarette yep and you'd just see the smoke come out and you'd go like I want to be that guy I don't know why I just want to be that guy and maybe that had something to do with what so the people who are like oh you know you can't go after violence and stuff that people see in movies yes you can it's not the whole story but it's definitely part of the story when you make something look cool like guns or smoking

Speaker 1 impressionable minds, when they're young, especially, are going to like want to emulate it.

Speaker 2 I saw that firsthand when I went to a movie theater, Bill.

Speaker 2 I went to see

Speaker 2 Friday the 13th, the Dream Warriors, with a young Patricia Arquette. And there was a kid behind me.
She was not on your date? No, not

Speaker 2 she was not my date.

Speaker 1 In the movie.

Speaker 2 If Patricia Arquette was my date in high school, I wouldn't be here right now.

Speaker 1 Sorry, please.

Speaker 2 In the movie. No, in the movie.
She's in the movie. And it it was a kid behind us.
Me and my date were sitting there.

Speaker 1 And Kim was like, fucking cut that bitch. Kill that fucking bitch.

Speaker 2 And he had his, you know, he had his like, you know, leather face t-shirt on and was like cheering it on. And we were like, the fuck is wrong with you?

Speaker 2 And then the lights came up and he just kind of, once the lights were on, he like scuttled out. And then I was like, Jesus Christ.
And then like.

Speaker 2 A month later, there's a movie called Henry Portrait of a Serial Killer with Michael Rooker. It's like his first movie.

Speaker 1 Again. First.
Or was it a

Speaker 2 Michael Rooker has been in everything. He's in.

Speaker 1 Michael Rooker. Michael Rooker.
You know, all these things I don't know. Michael Rooker is a.

Speaker 2 Sorry, he's a character actor god. Oh, a character actor.
But he's in everything. He's in The Walking Dead.
He plays.

Speaker 1 Never saw that. Oh, my Bill.
Why should I watch that?

Speaker 1 Tell me, I'm willing to be educated. I have.

Speaker 2 This is the fucking movie Clueless, and I am Cher right now, and you are the fucking girl that I've got to remake.

Speaker 1 I might be. I might be.

Speaker 1 But I'm going to get Fetch started.

Speaker 2 Different movie.

Speaker 1 Henry Portrait of a Serial Killer came out.

Speaker 2 And everyone was like, this is the most intense slasher movie. So all of the Friday the 13th, all of the Chucky, all of the Michael Myers fans went to see it.

Speaker 2 Henry Portrait of a Serial Killer is what violence actually looks like.

Speaker 2 And it was when, and I went and saw it. And when the movie was over, like a third of the audience had left.

Speaker 1 What year are we talking about? 89.

Speaker 1 What is it called?

Speaker 2 Henry Portrait of a Serial Killer.

Speaker 1 And he's a real serial killer.

Speaker 1 Is it a real serial killer?

Speaker 2 It's loosely based on Henry Lucas.

Speaker 1 Oh, of course. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Henry Lucas. He was a serial killer.

Speaker 2 Henry Lee Lucas, who at the time, everyone thought was the most prolific serial killer.

Speaker 2 And then it turned out cops were bringing him cold cases and he would just confess to them so they could close all their cases. Wow.
It's fucking darker. It's one of the worst things.
It's so awful.

Speaker 2 But they made this movie and Michael Rooker's in it, and he's incredible. And it's so goddamn scary.
But like you said, it wasn't making murder look cool. There wasn't a cool quip.

Speaker 2 There wasn't a cool angle. It was the way people actually die and fight for their lives.

Speaker 2 And half of this audience that clearly was the people that were like, ah, Freddy Krueger's so funny, they were gone. They were fucking gone when that thing was over.

Speaker 1 You do know that serial killing, though, is over because of technology. Well,

Speaker 1 there hasn't been a recent serial killer because the technology got good enough in police work.

Speaker 2 It's what my first wife was writing about.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 That's true.

Speaker 2 Millial DNA. And as she said it in her intro or in her afterward of the book, you used to be the only guy looking through the window and a million windows are opening around you.

Speaker 2 And you could never imagine this many windows around you. That's what she said.
And yeah, you're right. That's gone.

Speaker 1 Although, what a shame.

Speaker 2 I know. I mean, look,

Speaker 2 I know. I'm sorry I brought that up.

Speaker 1 I know.

Speaker 1 I know. I know.
You know, we can't even be a serious.

Speaker 1 Let's have a fun.

Speaker 2 Let's have fun here, dude. I don't want to bum you out.

Speaker 2 You want to hear something really weird?

Speaker 2 One of the homicide cops that Michelle used to talk to said, the tragedy is in the 70s, when I had on my desk at home 20 folders of missing kids, murdered kids, unsolved cases.

Speaker 2 And I would look across the street at this middle school, and there was a bike rack full of bikes. Kids would ride their bikes to school.
And I wanted to go, like, what the fuck are you people doing?

Speaker 2 Like, I have this many. Now it's the early aughts.

Speaker 2 Those files are gone. We catch those people now.
And I look across the street and that bike rack is empty. And like, we've, we made the kind of world where your kids can now ride their bikes around.

Speaker 2 And now, because of all the murder documentaries, all the murder movies, you're so terrified they don't get to have the childhood that the kids in the 70s had but shouldn't have had because we didn't have the technology.

Speaker 1 You think they shouldn't have had a free-range childhood?

Speaker 2 No, they should have had a free-range childhood, but it was a dangerous free-range childhood.

Speaker 2 And now they took that danger away, and everyone's so scared now they don't let their kids have that childhood.

Speaker 1 I think it's worth the I know it's going to sound harsh, but it's nothing is free in life.

Speaker 1 It is worth the risk that the majority, the vast majority of kids are able to grow up as kids.

Speaker 1 The fact that a kid cannot walk down the street alone now, two blocks to the market to get something that the parents, is just, yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, yes, is there a chance that someone's going to snatch a child who's alone? Always. There always is.
And you know what? I just think, you know, you got to play the numbers.

Speaker 1 And you don't want the entire population growing up as as hot house plants or or or crate-raised veal where they don't get to they don't get the bumps and the bangs of life where you're running.

Speaker 1 You had a free-range childhood? Oh my god.

Speaker 2 Not only did I have a free-range childhood, I had the kind of childhood where you were a shitty parent if you had your kids inside watching TV. It was go outside,

Speaker 2 when it gets dark, come back.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 And I was riding bikes into thorn bushes and I could not have had more contusions, and it was non-stop.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And we. Yeah, we could have been a casualty, and some were.
And some were. You just have to always ask,

Speaker 1 what is the maximum good?

Speaker 1 What? No, no.

Speaker 1 Isn't that a basic principle?

Speaker 2 But you are asking a very dark question. How many kids are we willing to sacrifice?

Speaker 1 Right. Well, how many lives?

Speaker 1 How many lives are we willing to sacrifice to have cars?

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, that is true.

Speaker 1 Because we are absolutely saying a certain number is okay because I like my car. Yeah.
And I want a car to get to places where a car goes, where it would be shitty if I had to walk.

Speaker 1 So I am willing to spend 30,000 of my fellow citizens' lives to have a car. And that's okay,

Speaker 1 bitch.

Speaker 1 Send your letters to him because I don't.

Speaker 1 I don't mean to be facetious

Speaker 1 or didactic.

Speaker 2 By the way, there's a,

Speaker 2 I know you're not into comic books.

Speaker 1 No, I am not.

Speaker 2 There's, again, comic books to me. I'm not that cultural.

Speaker 2 Are like, well, they're like rap music, where the people that aren't into comics are like, yeah, but these goddamn Marvel movies and the goddamn. Yeah, that's all you're seeing.

Speaker 2 There's really amazing shit happening in comics. And there's a great series by a guy called

Speaker 2 literally watch Bill disengage.

Speaker 1 Where do you get the time to engage with all these different art forms?

Speaker 2 I love reading. I love watching movies.
But there's a great comic by a guy named Elliot Kalin, used to be a head writer at The Daily Show. It's called Maniac of New York.

Speaker 2 And the premise of the thing is, in the early 80s, a masked maniac like a Jason type

Speaker 2 showed up at Times Square on New Year's Eve, killed 12 people. The cop shot him 18 times.
He fell fell off the pier dead.

Speaker 2 And then every couple of years, he shows up, kills a couple of people in New York. They call him Maniac Harry.
And this is now it's the year 2025. This has been going on since 1985.
And New York just

Speaker 2 adjusted to it. They're like, well, I got to live in New York.
I'm not going to not live in New York. This is where my career is.
kills a couple of people every year.

Speaker 2 There's this unkillable maniac. There's reports on the news.
We just spotted Maniac Harry in Chelsea. Don't go in Chelsea tonight.
And everyone adjusted and everyone is living with it now.

Speaker 2 I could see it.

Speaker 2 Exactly.

Speaker 2 It's school shootings. It's ridiculous or homicides.
We're not going to change anything.

Speaker 1 Mondami would give him a rent-controlled apartment. Good night, everybody.
Oh, for the love of God. No, no.
Oh, you're a good one. Mondami, all the way.

Speaker 2 God damn it. Yes.

Speaker 1 It was so good to see you. Yeah, great to meet you.
Buddy, before we change it.

Speaker 1 I just saw another little fight coming, and it it was like, why not? I love this guy's trust.

Speaker 1 I love this guy so much.

Speaker 1 Why have a fight about my dummy? Let's have another drink with my dummy.

Speaker 2 Let's numb the hatred.

Speaker 1 It's been two hours. Oh, Jesus.
Listen. It has been two hours.
That's how good friends we are now. Dude.

Speaker 1 It was such a pleasure. Buddy.
I'm so glad this phone. Oh,

Speaker 1 Bill. Sorry.

Speaker 1 No more for you, buddy.

Speaker 1 I hope we do it again.

Speaker 2 Listen, anyone drops out, I'll just drive up.

Speaker 2 When I show up, I'll know that Timothy Chalamet's flight got delayed.

Speaker 1 I'm unfreshed. Two hours without needing to pee.

Speaker 2 Oh, wow. Was I that fascinating?

Speaker 1 Well, I feel like at our age.

Speaker 2 Oh, at our age, that's come on.

Speaker 2 Get that on camera. That's a brag.

Speaker 1 That's sort of a victory.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that is a victory.

Speaker 1 They call it a flex now.

Speaker 1 The kids,

Speaker 1 the grandpa.

Speaker 1 Anyway, oh my god,

Speaker 3 be our guest at Disney's enchanting musical, Beauty and the Beast. Experience this timeless, classic tale brought to life like never before.

Speaker 3 Fill your heart with joy and Disney magic at this dazzling and beloved production.

Speaker 5 Coming to the Orpheum Theater July 14th through August 9th. Tickets on sale now at BroadwaySF.com.