Bit@#es Be Hitchin'

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Want to talk to Conan? Visit teamcoco.com slash call Conan. Okay, let's get started.
Hi, Tricia. Welcome to Conan O'Brien needs a fan.
Hey, guys. How are you? I'm great.
How are you guys? We are doing pretty well, I think. Yeah.
But we are not the focus, Tricia. You are the focus.
And, you know, people are sick of hearing about us. I want to know about you.
I've been told I believe that you're in Minnesota and that your name is Tricia. And's all I know oh really yeah okay so maybe you could fill us in about what you do who you are um you know likes dislikes the whole thing the whole right the whole thing yeah I'm in Montevideo Minnesota which is in the southwest corner of the state on the prairie Okay.
So I've been here about seven years. All right.
Moved here for my husband's job. Had no idea where this place was.
Now, are you a native of Minnesota then in general? Yeah, I'm from the north shore of Minnesota up by Lake Superior. Yep.
Yeah. And so does this feel like a a come down for you? Like, oh, I gotta go down to the,

to the prairie.

I gotta go down to the prairie

because of my husband.

Got a job on the prairie.

Is that,

was that your attitude?

I was seven months pregnant.

Oh my God.

Are you guys homesteaders?

Yeah.

No.

Can you help me,

can you help me raise a barn?

I have a barn raising on, on, Yeah. I also live on the prairie.
It's sort of the prairie sort of. Can you help pulling a dead buffalo out of a lake? I'll help you with that if you help me with my barn.
Sure. Well, Trisha, I'm just curious.
So what do you do? I know you're a mom. You've got kids.
What other things are you interested in? Yeah, I work remotely as an investigative crime reporter. I cover cold cases in Minnesota and the Dakotas.
I'm fascinated by this. I'm fascinated by murder.
Sona, I think you're a big murder buff. I like murder.
Hey, guys. I like murder, too.
Hey. All right, girl.
No, I like murder so much that I would either like to murder or be murdered. Yes.
I'm up for either one. It doesn't matter.
Whoa. Yeah.
I probably shouldn't put that out, though. That's a bad thing.
Too late. Oh, yeah.
You're going to replay that if something happens to me with an echo. Although, I will say, I got dibs.
Okay. Yay! I'll give you first crack.
Okay. That's your investigative crime reporter, and your focus is cold cases.
I love it. I love these stories.
How far back do you go with a cold case, usually? So the 1970s has kind of become my sweet spot, which is weird because I was born in the 80s. Yeah.
It's a good era. But it was a really, I mean, it was a decade of mayhem.
I often think. Serial killers were on the loose.
I like sometimes, you know, because there are channels for music that just focus on, you know, like it's the 60s channel. It's the 50s channel.
Like Sirius XM does that. The 70s one, it says, 70s, decade of mayhem.
But then they just play the Eagles. And I think, yes, it was a time for killing.
Okay, so here's the thing. I think there were, what's intriguing about the 70s is that they didn't have the DNA technology yet.
And so people would just go missing and there wasn't a lot you could do about it. And so to me, it feels like a time of mystery when there's probably a lot of cold cases, right? Yeah, exactly.
I mean, and a lot of times, too, people just, they were considered to be runaways because, like you said, there was no DNA technology. And especially if it was a young woman, it was just, oh, well, she went off, you know, hitchhiking to San Francisco.
Bitches be hitchhiking. Sorry, what? What did you just say? Bitches be hitchhiking.
Hitchhiking. Yeah, that felt like the right time to drop in a joke.
No, this woman's trying to solve cold murder cases. These are young women that went missing, and you decide, here's my joke opportunity? All I'm saying is bitches be hitchhiking.
Trisha, I'd like to apologize, because I think what you're doing is valuable, and if you find someone, these people are in agony because they're wondering what happened to their loved one. Sorry, Sona.
I would like to at least thank you for giving us the title of this episode. I was going to say Bitches Be Hitchin.
Bitches Be Hitchin. That would have been cool.
It didn't roll off the tongue when I said hitchhiking. That's why I stumbled a lot.
That was really why I was upset. It wasn't that it was insensitive.
It just be hitching. Got it.
So have you had success with this? I'll wait for the laughter to stop and then say, have you had success finding the bodies of lost women in the 70s? Jesus Christ. Yeah, we have.
Actually, we've moved. Well, we've moved at least two cases forward.
One case, a gal from 1974, Belinda, she went missing and, you know, still hasn't been found. But there is a main suspect.
Oh, and have you have you reopened her case? And so we could be getting answers. OK, let's talk about because I'd like to help crack this case, the main suspect.
Have you spoken with the main suspect? Is the main suspect still alive? Yeah, he's still alive. I have.
I met with him for an hour. He's at a secure facility in northern Minnesota for dangerous sexual offenders.
Oh, Jesus.

Yeah.

Okay.

And you went there.

I mean, that's a creepy place to visit.

Was it the kind of situation where he's behind a screen or a clear plastic and you pick up the phone

and he picks up the phone?

No, I wish that were the case, but no.

So, you know, in those...

It's disappointing.

I love it when they pick up the phone and then they pick up the phone. I want him to be in a little mask and he's on a dolly and a straitjacket, you know? You should talk to a guy who may have murdered someone in the 70s and you're like, what phone did you use? Well, I just...
How did you communicate? I just love it. It's always the same thing.
One person picks up the phone and then points to it and the other person then begrudgingly

picks up the phone as if it's not clear to pick up the fucking phone right i mean how else are you gonna talk they always pick it up and point at it i've seen that in 10 000 movies and i'm not wrong yeah it's a good point yeah um now i'm thinking about and this is, but now I'm thinking about when people visited serial killers

at like 1910, 1910, 1911.

Oh, no.

Then one person picks up a candlestick phone

and points to the other side of the window

and the other person picks up the candlestick phone

and they're like, hello, hello.

Look, I didn't do it, see?

I didn't do it, see?

And they have to still go through an operator?

She had it coming, bitches be hitching. Yeah.
I want Wrigley 5025. Enid, can you put me through? Bitches be hitching.
Hold on, please. Zing, zing, zing, zing, zing.
Okay, you know what, Tricia? You don't deserve this. This is awful.
This is so stupid. I hate us and all three of us are going to hell and I hope soon.
I we go before we die, just so we can check it out. But Tricia, this is...
I'm going to pull this thing together. I know I can do it.
What you're doing is very cool and valuable. And you talk to this person and tell me what it was like to look into the eye.
Do you think this person did it? I mean, I have to. I'm not supposed to say, but yeah, I do think he did.
You showed a lot of restraint there, Tricia. Well, I'm not supposed to.
Yes. Total murderer.
So you look in this person's eyes. Did this person have remorse, do you think? Well, no.
So he and I had been writing letters for quite a while. And so that's how I unrelated to this yeah this is I was gonna say I was gonna say they were pen pals before any of this came up by the way what are your hobbies I'm killing in the 70s hey maybe I could come by they have a phone there and a plastic divider I'll pick pick it up, but you don't pick it up right away

and then I'll point to my phone.

Trisha, I'm sorry.

We're gonna get it back.

We're gonna get it back.

You know what?

Can I just say this is Trisha's fault for calling us.

Yeah, that's true.

There are so many legitimate places to call.

Actually, could you pick up the phone?

Yeah.

Also, I said for calling us.

She's on a Zoom.

I'm sorry.

Trisha, I will reign this in, I promise you. You started writing back and forth and then you decided to go.
What made you want to go and meet with this alleged or possible killer in person? So at that point, we knew I'd been working with Belinda's family and we knew that he had been named the main suspect. And so we had obtained his police files from he had three women who escaped from him.
Oh, God. And yeah, I mean, like really bad stuff.
Like he abducted them at gunpoint, knife point and had a kill bag. And and all three of these women lived to tell what happened to them and so yeah i think it was more so out of obviously for the story because you know writing a story writing a series about belinda you know it was only natural to want to go and ask him some questions yep yep so i mean that's why i went there not for kicks but, you're a crime reporter.
This is, despite everything we've done in this podcast, this is a real thing you're doing, and it's invaluable, and these are real victims, and I cannot believe I'm transitioning us out of that laughing fit. You have to, though.
But I have to. And I hope that everyone listening understands that we're three sociopaths.
I was going to say, though, to make you guys feel better, like, I laugh with the families all the time. Like, I feel like people have to have some sort of a dark sense of humor.
So I think I think it's all right. You know, so you talk to this person.
I I'm curious because I have always had an interest in this subject. And I was always wondered how I would do interviewing somebody.
You know what I mean? Would I be able to get any information out of them or would I just go on too many? What's your professional opinion of how I would fare? Would I go on too many like comedic tangents or there'd be about to confess to the murder and I'd have a funny idea and start to describe it. Are you thinking of having murderers on this podcast? Well, it's a big genre in podcast.
And if we can combine our humor with murder, we might be the biggest podcast in the entire world i mean i know we're close but we're not there yet yeah yeah yeah so i think number one rule is to make them feel comfortable i think you would be really good at that yeah and you know making them laugh doing some bits would you know get them feeling. Yeah.
That's key. That's key is get them laughing and get their trust.
And then maybe they'll tell me something. I mean, I would maybe I could come with you some point and just that might be distracting.
You know, I think it'd be good. And I've so I only do interviews by myself, but ideally you want to do it in a team because then you have like a good cop, bad cop, and then an observer.
And a very silly cop. It's good cop, bad cop.
Like, I'm going to do five minutes with you. I'm going to beat your face in if you don't tell us what to do.
Hey, man, I'm your friend. Yeah, and I'm here, too.
I'm Goofy Cop. There's good cop, bad cop, and goofy cop.
Hey, look, I've got antlers on. They're made of foam.
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I do think I would be pretty good. I'm fascinated.
I am legitimately, all bits aside, fascinated by what you do. and I, I'm fascinated.
I am legitimately all bits aside, fascinated by, by what you do. And, uh, I'm also noticing, I don't know if you've noticed this too, but there are couples, it's usually a couple or sometimes it's one person who'd been missing since the seventies or sometimes the eighties, but a lot of times it's the seventies or even the late sixties.
It's this phenomenon that's come up now. And what happens is there'll be a scuba diver in a lake and they find, they're like, hey, there's an old rusty car down there.
And they dredge it up. And it turns out that the person was driving home.
And this is more common. These stories pop up in the news.
One popped up like two days ago. It's a couple i think that's went missing in the 60s and because more and more people are scuba diving in lakes to sort of poke around they're finding cars that just people were driving home and their car went into the water somewhere they're going over or their car went in and no one knew about it and everyone assumed they're the victim of foul play but that's a thing too is just there's they're more and more finding people obviously the women that you're talking about were abducted but i'm finding that to be kind of fascinating in this age of um there are like scuba sleuths out there which is weird but it's true yeah no i've heard of that too and then it's kind of sad too because in a lot of those cases there's like someone who's accused of doing it was never convicted and then after all these years they were just you know in an accident yes they were in an accident on the way it always freaks me out like how do you how does your car go into a pond and nobody knew it? Nobody knew there was a crime scene, but that's happening more and more.
Um, there, where they're finding things just because things turn up. But obviously these are people that were, uh, abducted.
And if you, do you think when you're talking to this person and you interviewed them, uh, in jail, do you think this is someone who might be willing to confess? Or would you if you went back or if you repeatedly went back a couple of times? Because what what would they have to lose at this point? Why not? Yeah, exactly. I don't know.
You know, it's kind of weird because you think they're these masterminds because they've, you know, gotten away with murder, or at least you think they have. But a lot of times they're just kind of dopey, like that guy's just kind of, you know, kind of pathetic.
At the same time, he doesn't strike me as someone who's going to just, you know, confess on his deathbed. But I think they're, you know, like when you look at FBI professionals and their interrogation tactics are much smarter than I am.
And I think in that case, yeah, I think it could happen. Yeah.
I'm amazed that you got into this. It sounds like you just got into this on your own.
And, I mean, when you started, you started making this your beat as a crime reporter? Well, no. I kind of fell into it because, like I said, I moved here.
I was taken here when I was seven months pregnant. And there's nowhere to work around here.
You said I was taken here. Were you abducted? No, I didn't want to say it.
Yeah, I'm going to say. I was taken here when I was seven months pregnant against my will to the prairie.
Oh, no. Now I feel like we have to go rescue you.
Is your husband in the crime business? No, no. He's a physician.
Working that angle, eh? Those are the best murderers. Best murderers in Telia.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. The physicians.
They know where to hit. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay. Jesus.
She's right there with us. Yes.
She gets it. No, so I got into it because, yeah, I had three kids right in a row.
And it was, you know, I never intended on being a stay-at-home mom. God bless them.
It's the hardest thing in the world. But when I was pregnant with my third, I was like, okay, I need to go back to work.
And at that point, it was after COVID. So there were more remote opportunities.
Yeah. So I was like, okay, let's look for a job for me.
And then I found that one and it was with a company I used to work for. So it just kind of happened that way.
I completely, I mean, we completely support your decision because Sona had twins and offered to go back to work from the hospital. Yeah.
You wanted to get away. And she said to go back.
During labor. And she said, and she hasn't seen them since.

I don't know where they are.

Yeah.

No, I don't know where they are.

I understand.

I don't know what they're doing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

She said, you said you're willing to meet them when they graduate college.

I came here and I haven't left.

I've just been in the studio.

Sona, how old are your twins?

You have twins, right?

They're three and a half.

Okay.

I have a three and a half year old.

So yeah.

Oh yeah. And I can't imagine two.
Yeah. You had, but you had, you said you had three and a half.
Okay I have a three and a half year old so yeah. Oh yeah.
I can't imagine two. Yeah.
You said you had three in a row how quickly? 19 months apart. Fuck.
Oh my god. Yeah.
Okay Jesus Sona. So I had to move on to crime and murder.
My parents that's how in my family it's there was a child born every four months for 30 for 35 years um yeah we were high-fiving each other in the womb well i gotta go i'm shipping out but i'll see you in a couple of months they said it was a medical miracle and your mom went back to work too immediately she went back to work as soon as she could yeah Yeah, yeah, I don't blame her. She went back to work.
Yeah, she was a prize fighter. 75 knockouts.
Never lost a fight. Well, this is fascinating.
I'm really interested. I'm very interested in what you do, and I think it's incredibly cool that you're doing this, and I wish you the best of luck.
It is, I also find the seventies to be such an eerie time. You're familiar with the list case, right? The, what's that? The list case.
Uh, it's a pretty famous case. It's a guy who, um, the stepfather, the movie, the stepfather was based on the list case, but it was John list.
Uh, he lost his job. Didn't want to tell his family.
They were living in kind of a

fancy house. He was trying to keep up appearances.
And then he just decided to kill everybody and then disappear. And he went, he disappeared successfully for like 25 years.
And they only found him because of America's Most Wanted. And they made a recreation of what he would look like today and someone said, know that guy and it turned out it was him and i was a writer at saturday night live at the time and i went to the trial the trial was in new jersey and i would drive in my 1973 plymouth valiant over to new jersey when i wasn't working on sketches and just sit there and look at this guy wow he had a big family and he just waited for the kids to come home one by one and killed them.
Jesus. Yeah.
Wow. And then went and started a whole new life.
And when they caught him, he was having financial trouble again. And they were theorizing he might have, if they hadn't caught him, done the same thing again.
Oh my God. And his rationale was, They're starting to wear, my daughter's starting to wear a short skirt.
The kids are, I'm going to kill them so that they don't go to hell. I'll kill them now and they'll go to heaven.
That was his rationale. Okay.
Probably a good time for murdering because there's no DNA stuff, right? No, exactly. I think it's, and I agree with you.
Golden age of murder. I agree with you.
You'll never see it again. Yeah.
Isn't that a shame? It's like the studio system. Oh, they made good movies then.
Can't go home. I think you're right.
I think it's, you made a really good point, which is people think that if you get away with murder, you're a genius, but no, it's a busy, crazy world out there. And as we saw with the Long Island killings, those were all sex workers.
And sadly, they would go missing and the police would go like, eh, it's a sex worker. God knows where she is.
And they were treated as second class citizens. And then later on, it turned out that this serial killer was extremely prolific, sadly.

And so you're right.

It's not that this person's a genius.

They were just preying on a section of society that was not held in the same regard, which is too bad.

Yeah, exactly.

And it's kind of weird, obviously, to think about just because most of us would get so much anxiety after killing someone and it would show you know but they're able to just yeah i don't know i don't go about yeah go about today yeah i think that my co-workers are pointing at me they've seen me uh make do terrible bits and then they see that I have no remorse. None at all.
Just none. And bits are worse than murder in many cases.
In a way, my bits are, I'm murdering people's peace of mind around me. I'm killing people's sense of a good world that they live in with my bits.
So in my own way, I've left a long trail behind me. I don't know.
We dipped in and out of, this is a fascinating conversation because we've dipped in and out of laughter and then incredibly dark moments and then back to laughter again, which shows that, well, the three of us need to be jailed. Yeah, we do.
We need to be in some facility i mean i no not convincing you said that in such a minute you said also you did that in such a minnesota way ah yeah no no you've been on the prairie too long trisha we got to get you out of there i know i have it's it's you know it's it's a great place Is your physician husband out delivering a calf right now? What is he doing? Oh my God. A human baby.
Oh, okay. All right.
Yeah. Okay.
Yeah. Yeah.
Well, our best to him. And you seem like a very, uh, cool person and, uh, very, uh, just really fascinating to talk to you.
And thanks thanks for listening to our nonsense did you have a question for me before we go um oh well my question i you kind of already answered which would be you know um well actually no let me start over what advice would you give me because you've obviously been known as one of the great interviewers of our country what advice would you give me the next time i go in and interview a serial killer i thought you were going to say what advice would you give to any killers out there how to kill and kill again i you know i it's the same thing i mean i think we talked about it but i do think it's all about getting rapport and one way i try always try to find common ground with people, which is strange because if you're talking to a prolific serial killer, it'd be weird. But I think I would try and go into it trying to liken what I do to what they do so that we could have a feeling of rapport.
Like I've killed in front of an audience. Oh boy.
That's what I would do. I would try and find common ground.

Or talk about the time I've murdered.

But you're trying to get them to admit they murdered.

Yeah.

So you can't talk about, hey, we both kill,

but in different ways.

Yes, that's what you do.

Most jailhouse confessions are one criminal

talking to another.

Yeah.

That's what I think it is.

I think it's a good strategy.

Yeah.

Thank you very much.

It's a good strategy.

And you lose, Sona.

I want you to go undercover in prison and like befriend these people. Undercover in prison.
Oh, that's gonna go well. That's gonna go really well.
Hiya, fellas. I'm not Conan O'Brien.
My name's Conrad O'Ryan. Well, off to the showers um Trisha have a wonderful day and really good luck to you and I uh I hope that you're successful and uh um and that you you get some closure for these people I really do thank you so much and I do want to say that um I listen to you guys all the time and laugh so hard oh good I appreciate it yeah it helps when I'm doing the murder stuff I like to laugh along with you and then go murder so same way alright you take care Tricia bye bye thanks guys bye see ya Conan O'Brien needs a fan with Conan O'Brien Sonam Avsessianian, and Matt Gourley.
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