"Verurteilt wegen Homosexualität" mit Klaus Schirdewahn

1h 11m

In dieser Folge befinden wir uns in der Nachkriegszeit. Klaus Schirdewahn wird 1947 in eine streng christliche Familie geboren, zu einer Zeit, in der Homosexualität durch den §175 StGB kriminalisiert ist. In seiner Jugend merkt Klaus, dass er homosexuell ist, hält dies aber geheim, da dies in der Gesellschaft und insbesondere auch in seinem Elternhaus, als inakzeptabel gilt. Im Dezember 1964 wird Klaus wegen sexueller Handlungen mit einem anderen Mann verhaftet. Als Minderjähriger entgeht er zwar einer Haftstrafe, wird aber zur sog. Konversionstherapie verurteilt. Die Konversionstherapie wird vom Weltärztebund mittlerweile als Menschenrechtsverletzung eingestuft und ist in Deutschland seit 2019 überwiegend verboten. Über die Jahre geht an dem Versteckspiel sowohl eine langjährige Beziehung mit einem Mann, die er neben der Ehe mit einer Frau führte, als auch die Ehe selbst kaputt. Erst als Klaus seinen heutige Ehemann Achim kennenlernt, traut er sich mehr und mehr zu seiner Homosexualität zu stehen. Er trennt sich von seiner Frau. Mit Achim lebt Klaus seit 2010 in einer eingetragenen Lebenspartnerschaft, die 2017 durch die „Ehe für Alle“ in Deutschland rechtlich anerkannt wird. Klaus engagiert sich zunehmend öffentlich, hält Vorträge an Schulen und im Bundestag und leitet die Seniorengruppe „gay & grey“.

Klaus’ Geschichte führt uns durch viele Entwicklungen rund um die LGBTQ*-Community. Diese Folge soll zeigen, wie groß die Diskriminierung und Unterdrückung war, welche Lichtblicke einige politische Entscheidungen bedeuteten, aber auch, wie viel Aufklärungsarbeit auch heute noch zu leisten ist, in einer Gesellschaft, die sich wieder zunehmend von konservativen Ansichten angezogen fühlt.

Ein riesiges Dankeschön an Klaus Schirdewahn für dieses Interview!

Immer auf dem Laufenden über Philipp und seine Projekte auf Instagram @philippfleiter

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Transcript

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In a cow,

this mirror also

cameras, the Boebach that

is an organic

process, that

police for the tournament,

in the political procession,

then priests.

That's what

a gun

backwards.

But what we have

Manchester is no gunskurt moment, the

completed forest, a

winter,

and stern,

Ichben Philip Fleiter, and Ichtrafe in this podcast

or

now this

moment

of

intertwining.

Hello, and Herzlich Welcome to this

moment.

This music

for feedback

is about the depression, and I

hope

that you can't be able to do it.

But

when you

start to

learn and

we can't do it,

they're passionate.

We

have

autism, then come on,

similar

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not so flee in that

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them was Klaus Schirdewan.

Klaus is sexually

in the homosexuality

of

the

forbodene.

This woltich um

is this social

Man, we can't do it.

Hello, Klaus.

Hello.

Lassen

directly

in this moment of

the world.

Underwhigs, the

cult and

you

can

see, and

yeah, what

we have to do is

that

it is

not

a failure, the announcement

in a kauf house

mirror,

and what

cameras

that were in the toll

and

the organic

possible

police

and the police

and that

is so that

women

closed and politically.

I

have

gotten

it.

That

was

a lesson,

so when you

start the police, I want the

police.

Yeah, but

it is my

position.

The hat is a politician,

in a

stalt,

and

the hat also griffin and

less gender, but we

say that

this

also

police in the

world that

a rich

voice

And the

merchant in Manheim Gabs, a

little bit of

a single thing.

I

mentioned the inside of the internet,

or young scholars, but

that

is

why Jungle

or

Mane

had

simple

hotel,

while the hotel

anonymously all anonymously,

from the

critic order,

that

we have angst with

the men when

I

was

the passion

in this

toll.

How does that in the moment or that we would?

That's what

we do.

That was

a very important thing.

But all this

machine,

in the criminal

police process

and then

a trap, and that is a

lipstick,

whatever, what we

can

Archenhund Ein Zibzig in Doltzen Kaiserich Einstein,

and

the

Goldigwa.

This paragraph delta the Zitad Wider Natural Union

and

Mena Die Sexmet Men have

Zuffer Brechen.

And Hitler would

not have

the right

to homosexuality.

All the NS side would paragraph

in half the time and

a concentration

of

the power

that

we have no

comment.

That solves no fast.

has discriminated in the Gesellschaft.

So, the motto when

you

say that

in the middle of Sophie Menschenger,

also by Klaus.

Yeah, what

we have, have,

and

my Boscofen, and I have

to press, but it's not

political and

it's not a problem.

So, how do we

get it?

And that all is

people, what policies

were

the underhats,

and the

habits, that

markenwalden, and

then

I put

all this,

the other

niche.

But that is not

And that is

what

the police

were.

And the next thing was that

the

photos and all this would be aimed at the album for

three

years.

years,

we

have to

panic,

links, names, my children.

And then

Christians, the manafern, with

the same thing, or the beat for

the music, and the blossom,

nicht,

the

men

and

Ichabander,

then we

have

colleagues,

the

Was it also

a matter of time?

That was

my father, and

that was

the politics of the

week

or the

other.

Yeah, the police

control

is why the

stimulus

and that

means

the political

and

then

all the

time, and then

all

of them

in

the world, the modern interchange,

and the halt

of Nazi Wabnit, but

there is so much

and

the common

and then is the

target in Spitzkelich.

So

it is done

and

we

have to say

and what

reasoning, what we

have.

would

be

here.

Walter Federal Father was

not

there.

What

I

spilled and

then

by the mutter, and Haberke,

and then

they

hang

my elderly

and

come to

the harmonic.

I

wasn't sure.

And I

also

think

in October, none of that

I think

the

hatheimbach, the hat,

and the motorwater house,

the household, and

be able to

see her.

And what

the normal in the

side was.

Has to be hoped in the

conservatives and

what?

Is that what I'm only when

the

money is not a very good thing?

That's what

we're doing, or that

yet the homosexuality, that's

it.

Okay.

That's why

I

negatively.

And

as kind, or yeah,

in the young hat,

the garnish

is

a baby,

I

think.

I am

not

sure, and

hate that

so fest.

This came

with

policist

is

a very important thing.

I also

have Andrew Jung

for Stadenhab

to Spielerine and

what

Okay.

In a height of

the

organic, what negative negatively,

I can

offer

you

directions

or

grabs.

Eventually, what I want to do is

to do the full index that

was

to be

done.

And then

the

that

a Jungle

Hat Jung.

And that

would

be

a Jungle Hatfellow, Michel Damascus,

the Hader Glee, that

we

had

to

do and

and

the same

police.

I

think

what

next

policy and

camera is.

Normally,

the political thing

has

been done, and even what

we

have to do is

the reason

that

we have to do it.

The gross angst

is the

only way

to

do it from wonderful

and

the hardest

angst

is possible

and

the same thing.

And then the

menu

comes.

Okay, that's the only

thing that we have to do.

And then

with the

same,

I have to

read.

And

we

have

to

make

And the

wolf and myself.

And then

it is not.

Yeah, this is

an absolute

hair.

So do you have a Monday Kennedy?

Not paragraphs, but

it's not a very important thing.

Yeah,

I straightened it for

you.

I wasn't sure

and

also

a link, so we

should have

and I was

a

great

organizer,

and that was malts

young man, the crank

and

home of

the

young

issue.

And

she had

a tongue, and she was

good with me.

He

obtained

That von Clausius Schrickman conversions therapy.

This therapy

of the

identity or the sexual orientation is mentioned for end.

She will rappareen, but not rapparel,

they will

not conquer.

And it is not

the conversion of therapy function

in

the

person.

In an

extragruntrete, a fiddle queer person,

a

conversation.

Gerade Fernandez is a gross problem

that when Betroley social and

the people who are in the world,

in Odaga,

in which

we

all have the

same since the

first time,

even so we hit

homosexual,

European conversations therapy for boden that

as Ganichman Zulang.

Deutschland folk

für Speter and Silt Dames Trotsky Iman Sudden European died

from conversions therapy.

He was

a strict forbade for the behavior of Minder

and in Zugerhat dirig or

complete forbodency.

Short dazzling

central figures

we have online and telephone spread.

This therapy was

in

film

with

film

that

have

and

Manzoraden and Offilmer Midmier

and

the Jungle Man Mach the Smith, Yeda Jung had

young man or the hindfield,

and

that

we

can't

allow

And that longer

in the Junggroup,

in the

city,

and we

are

in the

world and Lotus.

And that

man

has

been

in the

Ergabend.

So,

the

same

is a limit, and young

sits is also a little bit more than that.

And

young people,

and we have

all these

national qualities,

and I was

ya, first,

habit is to

be alleged.

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Okay, I was

clear, that we have a young man,

and

I think it's a very important thing.

And

Habi Simitkinum in the therapy,

and

Dr.

Frank,

and there were

therapy rolled, then

it was a very important thing.

If we could also therapy, that

figured out the therapy,

but the

second half

of the clause,

or

whatever,

then Wolfgang,

what

can we do?

I

also familiar with

you,

so seen,

I

get laundered.

When it is not

an alternative,

I was

able to

read

that.

Than

you can't do it.

That's why

Philip?

Yes.

And that we

can't do that.

I

mean,

I think it's a very important thing.

It's not allowed.

We had good?

We had tolle

fields

and

whatnot,

but

that

was the

end, and sex works,

and the habit

and

the

children of the world.

And the habit

is

and then

we

have

The wolf is

not a very good idea.

I don't know what

it is.

I wonder if normal.

Yeah,

no designer normal

and that

then

he

has a technical market, but in the moment,

Claribus

in a year, that morale,

but

I

think the generation would also

be

able to do it.

And when we mentioned that

with

the

wonder, so they

were able to

generate it, and the completely different

functions.

While

a great one is not

yacht of the doctors and materials,

but

outside and

activities

and

I have also done

activities that

are

bubble,

that

is.

And

then

what

I do is

in the ear,

and then

it beguys, that

was

my

daughter, and how many

people, and what

a kind of good,

and what I was

saying.

How does the sex?

Yeah.

So

the second.

About

the same thing.

But before the board, we have land

cannon.

Yeah, that blitzing.

We are in Hallenburg,

then for me, a blunder cloiner,

and that's

autographed

and

that was

not

what happened,

side

and

then

myself

is

English

and that

is

hard by here than

Muses,

that

I have

seen, I have the Frau Mann and

She

was

happy.

I was

like, that's why that's great.

That's why the

money

was

anonymous,

that we

should have

a lot of people who are not.

And

my labels

from Huntington, with

people,

This is interesting.

So, this business museum.

And that

is the field that

we talked about,

and

it is

also the Elden

and

And that

also

with a

lot of people who are in the world,

And then

my friend is

the seller.

And

that's why the Krose

and

then Warner Mein Frau Ebbe

to be

done and

this situation,

the official

and contested

and nothing else.

Had to do

that,

yeah?

That is better than

I

will egoistic, and

I have a lot of

people,

and

I bend the

habit of

making it a little bit more difficult.

That

we have a year, so do the

same.

Yeah.

I think,

and that's what we

do.

That's what we're talking about,

and I

also

have to say that

when

I must

and the Christian

and

the

so-called

and the

child and Gotzatanamir

Nets and

the people.

Lessons

also.

a

lot, and

the

hat sicher from Freund for Lasenwater

and her library

and

local traffic.

And

I was

like,

this local world,

and I

wolf

and

social dash.

Also,

Frank

was marked here.

The blood and whatever

of a

lot of people are not.

I have so

many

brackets that

are

public.

And then

we

have to

list

and

whiskey,

and

that glass unreasonable

whiskey harmonics.

There's an iceberg about whiskey,

and so

on.

I would

say.

That's why the written norms

aren't that much.

function.

And what also

is the same thing?

And this

is

my

favorite that

you have to do.

But I can't say any industry in English.

Yeah, but

then

familiar or

something.

Then I note

and

Sylvester

Pacheco

and the

cannon.

It Is my

father with

me?

And it is my solution, that I

am and

I think it's not a very good thing.

Okay, I said that.

Yeah, and she had

a schlime,

that was

very

strict.

And the schlime weird, that my

kind of

in the

site

would

instrumentalize

that

function

and

Elton, officer, my Elton,

what's the

same?

Acho, all the

sits to the Elton

Arms.

Dashaba dinner wisdom,

also

a little bit of a single thing.

Yeah, yeah, and she's

not

a good party,

why not director?

Achoo, that's what

I'm saying.

Yeah.

That is a moral iron.

Yes, then

accept

what

I

have,

I

think, so a ballet director.

The statement is

okay.

Yeah.

So we do not

have to

be networked, but in the evolution of it, or the hens,

that's the same thing.

We have

to

go

to

demos

in local

and

discovery

in my

connection, not

ideal,

that

theater

from

And so

familiar,

but not

reverse, also

but the

IBE or in the

Ganzo.

Yeah, that was

my passion, that I

don't

know,

or

what

we

were

creating, that when one

is

here, but

it is not a very important thing.

The hatred is

not

functional.

And that's why

we need to

go in.

minute.

Those dances

with

the

same thing.

Yes,

totally

anarchist,

and

we

are offering

contacts

and

with won,

and Iramudagen,

and

I would

say

Iramuda in a

way, and

Wertalt also

understood,

and

religion would not.

Then that immune

and when you

go and then

I

die, I

think it is

and

what

I label or I

feel

the middle leader that

is not going to be a very good thing.

Yeah, that

we

have

normal,

and yeah,

but also

goodness studies, but

that was to be

we spring

in 2007 that

all

the former

studies

partnerships, a

Lebesgue.

So, I said

it is

not

a problem.

Okay.

We have

this

right

when we.

also

What if

you

were ahead

of it?

And so that's what I

ended up doing in the European

light

and

gay and grey.

And at self-deine.

Yes, that's what I

think.

I was

a

culture coming to

Lutteshawk

from

here.

That's how

Dr.

Heilmann Lutteshen

and that

local

and

how

confirming

that

Junglish Lutheran

and David

Bay?

And the

Wirkish Ernst Wagtail

is

a

very

bad

barrier.

And then we

have a

Wolfgang.

and we

got my sister, that is the

most

important,

and

that is my

favorite, and the Hamis Einstein,

and that is my

favorite, and

my sister also

And

that would

be

a good thing.

And then

you can see that the market is not a problem.

And if there is 2000 Zybtsen, it's not

here.

Karma Zimmer does

200 zips,

a few.

little

bit more.

Had

more

than that, that

was

the future.

That was

good,

but

But I think

it's a

little bit

too much.

That is the

reason why

in Bundeslar Kalten.

That must be the market

that

we

have

in Bundesthagen,

the

nationalist.

I will not be the nationalist

and then

And the water

in the Bundesrepublik.

And here for

the Elf Jahlanga,

that

in Bundeslit Krummt,

and the

water

die

that I

was

in order to

do, and then the

clause all activists in Bundesliga,

what they offer.

Oh, yeah.

That's my

nominal

And there can be

a lot of

text

for the Schauspiel,

the

of

Croman and Herschel,

and when all

is

gangstole, and

I will be there, or

in contact,

let's

say by

van Dijk, and the Buchwork,

and

what Frankfurt,

and

when

I

was in the middle of the morning, I returned to

Benz, and I wasn't

warned, but it's only the theme that

The thing is also

the

key

to the European I think.

So, that's why

I

feel that the homophobia that

we have

or transperson in that.

The fuel

or

direct IPO is a very important thing.

I must immediately.

people.

I

think

the

crusades.

And

I

think when

we

say

that, and the politics,

history, and we

have

to

do that

with my steward, where the police

policies and good

and

all the politics.

And that is the

way

of the newer

police or the

world.

Has and

the Internet has

been

the EU agent

for the trigger

queer mention in the European Union, and the Letzbricht

yielded

person hat geld.

Dutch,

here is

the same thing, and thus

the Meisten also

is in the

world.

Immerhenden Tim rundum queerness, an unschooled

behind, tortured the

mobbing dot from 2000, but

no.

These

alleger

queer men in

the foreground

and

the sound of the sky,

and so

you wouldn't

see

the Bible and that all ellipse?

That we

have in Schul when I

say

that in the program,

the

Muslims, that is also

a campaign,

and the

most

important

the same matter that

a person

can

be

good,

and where we

are,

and find the soft

in the Schulefield

group, the

extraordinary people,

and

that the

harmony in Schul

and Melton House is out

of

my way

that

is this immanent

and

this is

all

these relative speeds, so

that

also

is the iron

best

wooden.

Why do you

think

and

all

the things that we have to do?

Has this

bitter order of

No, thank you.

Musagraphale and Manchester

Odochen

and Hasanita Wisconsin, then Odawich,

then

feel free to.

And

I cannot

group and

sexuality,

what

many young people,

with Jung, we have

grouped

in the market

is what

I

you.

There were garniers

and

what

great.

And they had my social nomination

and also

good and the Connect

Nick.

So just thanks

for

watching when I direct Manhead Kengeland and Saturday.

When does it

feel like

Susannah or Erasmus?

all mergers

that

are not going to be able to do it.

It's

a commercial.

I have in this podcast,

the gas

is when he comes from this moment.

So, this moment in a

clockwise

moment in the world.

And we

have a moment and Allison,

I suppose,

and yet

we can

read.

That's my

what Ganswild has done.

That is a paragraph on the Trump

Ergene Margarita, and that we in Unzamland

and

modern and often

regeneration

when we

go to Klaus Duchess, not a festival, and for

the sense of the

world.

And so it is in health,

it is a warm, cluge, fruit, and holistic person,

through

and that is my

clause is kein.

Geschichte

is 1,000

in Deutschland.

This is so

paragraph

in this

gunregeschichte,

Mark Waller, is a classic.

In 2000, we have

a

terror organization in Fuji and first.

I'm also

going to be able to

podcast and

feel

totally

out there in a podcast fighter in Europe and an Euro family.

We have

in a nice

video.

Their podcast with Philip Fleiter is a production von Philip Fleiter and Remind in Australia van Podimo, Predation Philip Fleiter, Lila Koitager and Riemind, sound design and schnett, Marius Fuchtmann for Riemind.

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