"Verurteilt wegen Homosexualität" mit Klaus Schirdewahn
In dieser Folge befinden wir uns in der Nachkriegszeit. Klaus Schirdewahn wird 1947 in eine streng christliche Familie geboren, zu einer Zeit, in der Homosexualität durch den §175 StGB kriminalisiert ist. In seiner Jugend merkt Klaus, dass er homosexuell ist, hält dies aber geheim, da dies in der Gesellschaft und insbesondere auch in seinem Elternhaus, als inakzeptabel gilt. Im Dezember 1964 wird Klaus wegen sexueller Handlungen mit einem anderen Mann verhaftet. Als Minderjähriger entgeht er zwar einer Haftstrafe, wird aber zur sog. Konversionstherapie verurteilt. Die Konversionstherapie wird vom Weltärztebund mittlerweile als Menschenrechtsverletzung eingestuft und ist in Deutschland seit 2019 überwiegend verboten. Über die Jahre geht an dem Versteckspiel sowohl eine langjährige Beziehung mit einem Mann, die er neben der Ehe mit einer Frau führte, als auch die Ehe selbst kaputt. Erst als Klaus seinen heutige Ehemann Achim kennenlernt, traut er sich mehr und mehr zu seiner Homosexualität zu stehen. Er trennt sich von seiner Frau. Mit Achim lebt Klaus seit 2010 in einer eingetragenen Lebenspartnerschaft, die 2017 durch die „Ehe für Alle“ in Deutschland rechtlich anerkannt wird. Klaus engagiert sich zunehmend öffentlich, hält Vorträge an Schulen und im Bundestag und leitet die Seniorengruppe „gay & grey“.
Klaus’ Geschichte führt uns durch viele Entwicklungen rund um die LGBTQ*-Community. Diese Folge soll zeigen, wie groß die Diskriminierung und Unterdrückung war, welche Lichtblicke einige politische Entscheidungen bedeuteten, aber auch, wie viel Aufklärungsarbeit auch heute noch zu leisten ist, in einer Gesellschaft, die sich wieder zunehmend von konservativen Ansichten angezogen fühlt.
Ein riesiges Dankeschön an Klaus Schirdewahn für dieses Interview!
Immer auf dem Laufenden über Philipp und seine Projekte auf Instagram @philippfleiter
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Speaker 5 Ichben Philip Fleiter, and Ichtrafe in this podcast
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Speaker 5 Hello, and Herzlich Welcome to this
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Speaker 4 And
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Speaker 5 extragruntrete, a fiddle queer person,
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Speaker 5 in Odaga,
Speaker 5 in which
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Speaker 5 first time,
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Speaker 5 European conversations therapy for boden that
Speaker 5 as Ganichman Zulang.
Speaker 5 Deutschland folk
Speaker 5 für Speter and Silt Dames Trotsky Iman Sudden European died
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Speaker 5 Short dazzling
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Speaker 4 Okay, I was
Speaker 4 clear, that we have a young man,
Speaker 4 and
Speaker 4 I think it's a very important thing.
Speaker 4 And
Speaker 4 Habi Simitkinum in the therapy,
Speaker 4 and
Speaker 4 Dr. Frank,
Speaker 4 and there were
Speaker 4 therapy rolled, then
Speaker 4 it was a very important thing.
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Speaker 6 figured out the therapy,
Speaker 6 but the
Speaker 6 second half
Speaker 6 of the clause,
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Speaker 4 whatever,
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Speaker 4 you,
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Speaker 4 an alternative,
Speaker 4 I was
Speaker 4 able to
Speaker 4 read
Speaker 4 that.
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Speaker 6 That's why
Speaker 6 Philip?
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Speaker 4 And that we
Speaker 4 can't do that.
Speaker 4 I
Speaker 4 mean,
Speaker 4
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Speaker 4 fields
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Speaker 4 and
Speaker 4 the
Speaker 4 children of the world. And the habit
Speaker 4 is
Speaker 4 and then
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Speaker 6 The wolf is
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Speaker 6 it is.
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Speaker 6 has a technical market, but in the moment,
Speaker 6 Claribus
Speaker 6 in a year, that morale,
Speaker 6 but
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Speaker 6 be
Speaker 6 able to do it. And when we mentioned that
Speaker 6 with
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Speaker 6 wonder, so they
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Speaker 6 generate it, and the completely different
Speaker 6 functions.
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Speaker 4 people, and what
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Speaker 4 We are in Hallenburg,
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Speaker 4 and that's
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Speaker 4 hard by here than
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Speaker 4 and I
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Speaker 6 Lessons
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Speaker 4 hat sicher from Freund for Lasenwater
Speaker 4 and her library
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Speaker 4 local traffic.
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Speaker 4 and I
Speaker 4 wolf
Speaker 4 and
Speaker 4 social dash.
Speaker 4 Also,
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Speaker 4 was marked here.
Speaker 4 The blood and whatever
Speaker 4 of a
Speaker 4 lot of people are not.
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Speaker 4 many
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Speaker 4 public.
Speaker 4 And then
Speaker 4 we
Speaker 4 have to
Speaker 4 list
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Speaker 4 whiskey,
Speaker 4 and
Speaker 4 that glass unreasonable
Speaker 4 whiskey harmonics.
Speaker 4 There's an iceberg about whiskey,
Speaker 4 and so
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Speaker 6 That's why the written norms
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Speaker 4 is
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Speaker 5 favorite that
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Speaker 6 But I can't say any industry in English.
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Speaker 4 father with
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Speaker 4 am and
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Speaker 6 Okay, I said that.
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Speaker 4 a schlime,
Speaker 4 that was
Speaker 4 very
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Speaker 6 sits to the Elton
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Speaker 6 Dashaba dinner wisdom,
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Speaker 4 a good party,
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Speaker 4 Achoo, that's what
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Speaker 4 That is a moral iron.
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Speaker 4 reverse, also
Speaker 4 but the
Speaker 4 IBE or in the
Speaker 4 Ganzo.
Speaker 4 Yeah, that was
Speaker 4 my passion, that I
Speaker 4 don't
Speaker 4 know,
Speaker 4 or
Speaker 4 what
Speaker 4 we
Speaker 4 were
Speaker 4 creating, that when one
Speaker 4 is
Speaker 4 here, but
Speaker 4 it is not a very important thing. The hatred is
Speaker 4 not
Speaker 4 functional.
Speaker 6 And that's why
Speaker 6 we need to
Speaker 6 go in.
Speaker 6 minute.
Speaker 6 Those dances
Speaker 6 with
Speaker 6 the
Speaker 6 same thing.
Speaker 4 Yes,
Speaker 4 totally
Speaker 4 anarchist,
Speaker 4 and
Speaker 4 we
Speaker 4 are offering
Speaker 4 contacts
Speaker 4 and
Speaker 4 with won,
Speaker 4 and Iramudagen,
Speaker 4 and
Speaker 4 I would
Speaker 4 say
Speaker 4 Iramuda in a
Speaker 4 way, and
Speaker 4 Wertalt also
Speaker 4 understood,
Speaker 4 and
Speaker 4 religion would not.
Speaker 4 Then that immune
Speaker 4 and when you
Speaker 4 go and then
Speaker 4 I
Speaker 4 die, I
Speaker 4 think it is
Speaker 4 and
Speaker 4 what
Speaker 4 I label or I
Speaker 4 feel
Speaker 4 the middle leader that
Speaker 4 is not going to be a very good thing.
Speaker 6 Yeah, that
Speaker 6 we
Speaker 6 have
Speaker 6 normal,
Speaker 6 and yeah,
Speaker 6 but also
Speaker 6 goodness studies, but
Speaker 6 that was to be
Speaker 6 we spring
Speaker 6 in 2007 that
Speaker 6 all
Speaker 6 the former
Speaker 6 studies
Speaker 6 partnerships, a
Speaker 6 Lebesgue. So, I said
Speaker 6 it is
Speaker 6 not
Speaker 6 a problem.
Speaker 6 Okay.
Speaker 4 We have
Speaker 4 this
Speaker 4 right
Speaker 4 when we.
Speaker 4 also
Speaker 6 What if
Speaker 6 you
Speaker 6 were ahead
Speaker 6 of it? And so that's what I
Speaker 6 ended up doing in the European
Speaker 6 light
Speaker 6 and
Speaker 6 gay and grey. And at self-deine.
Speaker 4 Yes, that's what I
Speaker 4 think.
Speaker 4 I was
Speaker 4 a
Speaker 4 culture coming to
Speaker 4 Lutteshawk
Speaker 4 from
Speaker 4 here. That's how
Speaker 4 Dr. Heilmann Lutteshen
Speaker 4 and that
Speaker 4 local
Speaker 4 and
Speaker 4 how
Speaker 4 confirming
Speaker 4 that
Speaker 4 Junglish Lutheran
Speaker 4 and David
Speaker 4 Bay?
Speaker 4 And the
Speaker 4 Wirkish Ernst Wagtail
Speaker 4 is
Speaker 4 a
Speaker 4 very
Speaker 4 bad
Speaker 4 barrier.
Speaker 4 And then we
Speaker 4 have a
Speaker 4 Wolfgang.
Speaker 4 and we
Speaker 4 got my sister, that is the
Speaker 4 most
Speaker 4 important,
Speaker 4 and
Speaker 4 that is my
Speaker 4 favorite, and the Hamis Einstein,
Speaker 4 and that is my
Speaker 4 favorite, and
Speaker 4 my sister also
Speaker 4 And
Speaker 4 that would
Speaker 4 be
Speaker 4 a good thing. And then
Speaker 6 you can see that the market is not a problem.
Speaker 6 And if there is 2000 Zybtsen, it's not
Speaker 6 here.
Speaker 6 Karma Zimmer does
Speaker 6 200 zips,
Speaker 4 a few.
Speaker 6 little
Speaker 6 bit more.
Speaker 6 Had
Speaker 6 more
Speaker 6 than that, that
Speaker 6 was
Speaker 6 the future.
Speaker 4 That was
Speaker 4 good,
Speaker 4 but
Speaker 4 But I think
Speaker 4 it's a
Speaker 4 little bit
Speaker 6 too much.
Speaker 4 That is the
Speaker 4 reason why
Speaker 4 in Bundeslar Kalten.
Speaker 4 That must be the market
Speaker 4 that
Speaker 4 we
Speaker 4 have
Speaker 4 in Bundesthagen,
Speaker 4 the
Speaker 4 nationalist. I will not be the nationalist
Speaker 4 and then
Speaker 4 And the water
Speaker 4 in the Bundesrepublik.
Speaker 4 And here for
Speaker 4 the Elf Jahlanga,
Speaker 4 that
Speaker 4 in Bundeslit Krummt,
Speaker 4 and the
Speaker 4 water
Speaker 4 die
Speaker 4 that I
Speaker 4 was
Speaker 6 in order to
Speaker 6 do, and then the
Speaker 6 clause all activists in Bundesliga,
Speaker 6 what they offer.
Speaker 4 Oh, yeah.
Speaker 4 That's my
Speaker 4 nominal
Speaker 4 And there can be
Speaker 4 a lot of
Speaker 4 text
Speaker 4 for the Schauspiel,
Speaker 4 the
Speaker 4 of
Speaker 4 Croman and Herschel,
Speaker 4 and when all
Speaker 4 is
Speaker 4 gangstole, and
Speaker 4 I will be there, or
Speaker 4 in contact,
Speaker 4 let's
Speaker 4 say by
Speaker 4 van Dijk, and the Buchwork,
Speaker 4 and
Speaker 4 what Frankfurt,
Speaker 4 and
Speaker 4 when
Speaker 4 I
Speaker 4 was in the middle of the morning, I returned to
Speaker 4 Benz, and I wasn't
Speaker 6 warned, but it's only the theme that
Speaker 6 The thing is also
Speaker 6 the
Speaker 6 key
Speaker 6 to the European I think.
Speaker 6 So, that's why
Speaker 6 I
Speaker 6 feel that the homophobia that
Speaker 6 we have
Speaker 6 or transperson in that.
Speaker 4 The fuel
Speaker 4 or
Speaker 4 direct IPO is a very important thing.
Speaker 4 I must immediately.
Speaker 4 people.
Speaker 4 I
Speaker 4 think
Speaker 4 the
Speaker 4 crusades. And
Speaker 4 I
Speaker 4 think when
Speaker 4 we
Speaker 4 say
Speaker 4 that, and the politics,
Speaker 4 history, and we
Speaker 4 have
Speaker 4 to
Speaker 4 do that
Speaker 4 with my steward, where the police
Speaker 4 policies and good
Speaker 4 and
Speaker 4 all the politics.
Speaker 4 And that is the
Speaker 4 way
Speaker 4 of the newer
Speaker 4 police or the
Speaker 4 world.
Speaker 5 Has and
Speaker 5 the Internet has
Speaker 5 been
Speaker 5 the EU agent
Speaker 5 for the trigger
Speaker 5 queer mention in the European Union, and the Letzbricht
Speaker 5 yielded
Speaker 5 person hat geld.
Speaker 5 Dutch,
Speaker 5 here is
Speaker 5 the same thing, and thus
Speaker 5 the Meisten also
Speaker 5 is in the
Speaker 5 world.
Speaker 5 Immerhenden Tim rundum queerness, an unschooled
Speaker 5 behind, tortured the
Speaker 5 mobbing dot from 2000, but
Speaker 5 no.
Speaker 5 These
Speaker 5 alleger
Speaker 5 queer men in
Speaker 5 the foreground
Speaker 5 and
Speaker 5 the sound of the sky,
Speaker 5 and so
Speaker 5 you wouldn't
Speaker 6 see
Speaker 6 the Bible and that all ellipse?
Speaker 4 That we
Speaker 4 have in Schul when I
Speaker 4 say
Speaker 4 that in the program,
Speaker 4 the
Speaker 4 Muslims, that is also
Speaker 4 a campaign,
Speaker 6 and the
Speaker 6 most
Speaker 4 important
Speaker 4 the same matter that
Speaker 4 a person
Speaker 4 can
Speaker 4 be
Speaker 4 good,
Speaker 4 and where we
Speaker 4 are,
Speaker 4 and find the soft
Speaker 4 in the Schulefield
Speaker 4 group, the
Speaker 4 extraordinary people,
Speaker 4 and
Speaker 4 that the
Speaker 4 harmony in Schul
Speaker 4 and Melton House is out
Speaker 4 of
Speaker 4 my way
Speaker 4 that
Speaker 4 is this immanent
Speaker 4 and
Speaker 4 this is
Speaker 4 all
Speaker 6 these relative speeds, so
Speaker 6 that
Speaker 6 also
Speaker 6 is the iron
Speaker 6 best
Speaker 6 wooden. Why do you
Speaker 6 think
Speaker 6 and
Speaker 6 all
Speaker 6 the things that we have to do? Has this
Speaker 6 bitter order of
Speaker 6 No, thank you.
Speaker 4 Musagraphale and Manchester
Speaker 4 Odochen
Speaker 4 and Hasanita Wisconsin, then Odawich,
Speaker 4 then
Speaker 4 feel free to.
Speaker 4 And
Speaker 4 I cannot
Speaker 4 group and
Speaker 4 sexuality,
Speaker 4 what
Speaker 4 many young people,
Speaker 4 with Jung, we have
Speaker 4 grouped
Speaker 4 in the market
Speaker 4 is what
Speaker 4 I
Speaker 4 you.
Speaker 4 There were garniers
Speaker 4 and
Speaker 4 what
Speaker 4 great.
Speaker 4 And they had my social nomination
Speaker 4 and also
Speaker 4 good and the Connect
Speaker 4 Nick.
Speaker 6 So just thanks
Speaker 6 for
Speaker 6 watching when I direct Manhead Kengeland and Saturday.
Speaker 6 When does it
Speaker 6 feel like
Speaker 6 Susannah or Erasmus?
Speaker 4 all mergers
Speaker 4 that
Speaker 4 are not going to be able to do it. It's
Speaker 4 a commercial.
Speaker 6 I have in this podcast,
Speaker 6 the gas
Speaker 6 is when he comes from this moment.
Speaker 6 So, this moment in a
Speaker 6 clockwise
Speaker 6 moment in the world.
Speaker 6 And we
Speaker 6 have a moment and Allison,
Speaker 4 I suppose,
Speaker 4 and yet
Speaker 4 we can
Speaker 4 read.
Speaker 6 That's my
Speaker 6 what Ganswild has done. That is a paragraph on the Trump
Speaker 6 Ergene Margarita, and that we in Unzamland
Speaker 6 and
Speaker 6 modern and often
Speaker 6 regeneration
Speaker 6 when we
Speaker 5 go to Klaus Duchess, not a festival, and for
Speaker 5 the sense of the
Speaker 5 world. And so it is in health,
Speaker 5 it is a warm, cluge, fruit, and holistic person,
Speaker 5 through
Speaker 5 and that is my
Speaker 5 clause is kein.
Speaker 5 Geschichte
Speaker 5 is 1,000
Speaker 5 in Deutschland.
Speaker 5 This is so
Speaker 5 paragraph
Speaker 5 in this
Speaker 5 gunregeschichte,
Speaker 5 Mark Waller, is a classic.
Speaker 5 In 2000, we have
Speaker 5 a
Speaker 5 terror organization in Fuji and first.
Speaker 5 I'm also
Speaker 5 going to be able to
Speaker 5 podcast and
Speaker 5 feel
Speaker 5 totally
Speaker 5 out there in a podcast fighter in Europe and an Euro family.
Speaker 5 We have
Speaker 5 in a nice
Speaker 4 video.
Speaker 8 Their podcast with Philip Fleiter is a production von Philip Fleiter and Remind in Australia van Podimo, Predation Philip Fleiter, Lila Koitager and Riemind, sound design and schnett, Marius Fuchtmann for Riemind.
Speaker 9
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Speaker 9 And if you're not happy, we'll refund you up to a million dollars, which I think says it all. Check it out for yourself at fin.ai.
Speaker 1 Important costs the Podimo app heard the new
Speaker 1 moment immersion
Speaker 1 for all Andan. The info stars
Speaker 1 are in the show notes.