"Verurteilt wegen Homosexualität" mit Klaus Schirdewahn
In dieser Folge befinden wir uns in der Nachkriegszeit. Klaus Schirdewahn wird 1947 in eine streng christliche Familie geboren, zu einer Zeit, in der Homosexualität durch den §175 StGB kriminalisiert ist. In seiner Jugend merkt Klaus, dass er homosexuell ist, hält dies aber geheim, da dies in der Gesellschaft und insbesondere auch in seinem Elternhaus, als inakzeptabel gilt. Im Dezember 1964 wird Klaus wegen sexueller Handlungen mit einem anderen Mann verhaftet. Als Minderjähriger entgeht er zwar einer Haftstrafe, wird aber zur sog. Konversionstherapie verurteilt. Die Konversionstherapie wird vom Weltärztebund mittlerweile als Menschenrechtsverletzung eingestuft und ist in Deutschland seit 2019 überwiegend verboten. Über die Jahre geht an dem Versteckspiel sowohl eine langjährige Beziehung mit einem Mann, die er neben der Ehe mit einer Frau führte, als auch die Ehe selbst kaputt. Erst als Klaus seinen heutige Ehemann Achim kennenlernt, traut er sich mehr und mehr zu seiner Homosexualität zu stehen. Er trennt sich von seiner Frau. Mit Achim lebt Klaus seit 2010 in einer eingetragenen Lebenspartnerschaft, die 2017 durch die „Ehe für Alle“ in Deutschland rechtlich anerkannt wird. Klaus engagiert sich zunehmend öffentlich, hält Vorträge an Schulen und im Bundestag und leitet die Seniorengruppe „gay & grey“.
Klaus’ Geschichte führt uns durch viele Entwicklungen rund um die LGBTQ*-Community. Diese Folge soll zeigen, wie groß die Diskriminierung und Unterdrückung war, welche Lichtblicke einige politische Entscheidungen bedeuteten, aber auch, wie viel Aufklärungsarbeit auch heute noch zu leisten ist, in einer Gesellschaft, die sich wieder zunehmend von konservativen Ansichten angezogen fühlt.
Ein riesiges Dankeschön an Klaus Schirdewahn für dieses Interview!
Immer auf dem Laufenden über Philipp und seine Projekte auf Instagram @philippfleiter
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Transcript
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In a cow,
this mirror also
cameras, the Boebach that
is an organic
process, that
police for the tournament,
in the political procession,
then priests.
That's what
a gun
backwards.
But what we have
Manchester is no gunskurt moment, the
completed forest, a
winter,
and stern,
Ichben Philip Fleiter, and Ichtrafe in this podcast
or
now this
moment
of
intertwining.
Hello, and Herzlich Welcome to this
moment.
This music
for feedback
is about the depression, and I
hope
that you can't be able to do it.
But
when you
start to
learn and
we can't do it,
they're passionate.
We
have
autism, then come on,
similar
ding an honor had
not so flee in that
is nicht in
them was Klaus Schirdewan.
Klaus is sexually
in the homosexuality
of
the
forbodene.
This woltich um
is this social
Man, we can't do it.
Hello, Klaus.
Hello.
Lassen
directly
in this moment of
the world.
Underwhigs, the
cult and
you
can
see, and
yeah, what
we have to do is
that
it is
not
a failure, the announcement
in a kauf house
mirror,
and what
cameras
that were in the toll
and
the organic
possible
police
and the police
and that
is so that
women
closed and politically.
I
have
gotten
it.
That
was
a lesson,
so when you
start the police, I want the
police.
Yeah, but
it is my
position.
The hat is a politician,
in a
stalt,
and
the hat also griffin and
less gender, but we
say that
this
also
police in the
world that
a rich
voice
And the
merchant in Manheim Gabs, a
little bit of
a single thing.
I
mentioned the inside of the internet,
or young scholars, but
that
is
why Jungle
or
Mane
had
simple
hotel,
while the hotel
anonymously all anonymously,
from the
critic order,
that
we have angst with
the men when
I
was
the passion
in this
toll.
How does that in the moment or that we would?
That's what
we do.
That was
a very important thing.
But all this
machine,
in the criminal
police process
and then
a trap, and that is a
lipstick,
whatever, what we
can
Archenhund Ein Zibzig in Doltzen Kaiserich Einstein,
and
the
Goldigwa.
This paragraph delta the Zitad Wider Natural Union
and
Mena Die Sexmet Men have
Zuffer Brechen.
And Hitler would
not have
the right
to homosexuality.
All the NS side would paragraph
in half the time and
a concentration
of
the power
that
we have no
comment.
That solves no fast.
has discriminated in the Gesellschaft.
So, the motto when
you
say that
in the middle of Sophie Menschenger,
also by Klaus.
Yeah, what
we have, have,
and
my Boscofen, and I have
to press, but it's not
political and
it's not a problem.
So, how do we
get it?
And that all is
people, what policies
were
the underhats,
and the
habits, that
markenwalden, and
then
I put
all this,
the other
niche.
But that is not
And that is
what
the police
were.
And the next thing was that
the
photos and all this would be aimed at the album for
three
years.
years,
we
have to
panic,
links, names, my children.
And then
Christians, the manafern, with
the same thing, or the beat for
the music, and the blossom,
nicht,
the
men
and
Ichabander,
then we
have
colleagues,
the
Was it also
a matter of time?
That was
my father, and
that was
the politics of the
week
or the
other.
Yeah, the police
control
is why the
stimulus
and that
means
the political
and
then
all the
time, and then
all
of them
in
the world, the modern interchange,
and the halt
of Nazi Wabnit, but
there is so much
and
the common
and then is the
target in Spitzkelich.
So
it is done
and
we
have to say
and what
reasoning, what we
have.
would
be
here.
Walter Federal Father was
not
there.
What
I
spilled and
then
by the mutter, and Haberke,
and then
they
hang
my elderly
and
come to
the harmonic.
I
wasn't sure.
And I
also
think
in October, none of that
I think
the
hatheimbach, the hat,
and the motorwater house,
the household, and
be able to
see her.
And what
the normal in the
side was.
Has to be hoped in the
conservatives and
what?
Is that what I'm only when
the
money is not a very good thing?
That's what
we're doing, or that
yet the homosexuality, that's
it.
Okay.
That's why
I
negatively.
And
as kind, or yeah,
in the young hat,
the garnish
is
a baby,
I
think.
I am
not
sure, and
hate that
so fest.
This came
with
policist
is
a very important thing.
I also
have Andrew Jung
for Stadenhab
to Spielerine and
what
Okay.
In a height of
the
organic, what negative negatively,
I can
offer
you
directions
or
grabs.
Eventually, what I want to do is
to do the full index that
was
to be
done.
And then
the
that
a Jungle
Hat Jung.
And that
would
be
a Jungle Hatfellow, Michel Damascus,
the Hader Glee, that
we
had
to
do and
and
the same
police.
I
think
what
next
policy and
camera is.
Normally,
the political thing
has
been done, and even what
we
have to do is
the reason
that
we have to do it.
The gross angst
is the
only way
to
do it from wonderful
and
the hardest
angst
is possible
and
the same thing.
And then the
menu
comes.
Okay, that's the only
thing that we have to do.
And then
with the
same,
I have to
read.
And
we
have
to
make
And the
wolf and myself.
And then
it is not.
Yeah, this is
an absolute
hair.
So do you have a Monday Kennedy?
Not paragraphs, but
it's not a very important thing.
Yeah,
I straightened it for
you.
I wasn't sure
and
also
a link, so we
should have
and I was
a
great
organizer,
and that was malts
young man, the crank
and
home of
the
young
issue.
And
she had
a tongue, and she was
good with me.
He
obtained
That von Clausius Schrickman conversions therapy.
This therapy
of the
identity or the sexual orientation is mentioned for end.
She will rappareen, but not rapparel,
they will
not conquer.
And it is not
the conversion of therapy function
in
the
person.
In an
extragruntrete, a fiddle queer person,
a
conversation.
Gerade Fernandez is a gross problem
that when Betroley social and
the people who are in the world,
in Odaga,
in which
we
all have the
same since the
first time,
even so we hit
homosexual,
European conversations therapy for boden that
as Ganichman Zulang.
Deutschland folk
für Speter and Silt Dames Trotsky Iman Sudden European died
from conversions therapy.
He was
a strict forbade for the behavior of Minder
and in Zugerhat dirig or
complete forbodency.
Short dazzling
central figures
we have online and telephone spread.
This therapy was
in
film
with
film
that
have
and
Manzoraden and Offilmer Midmier
and
the Jungle Man Mach the Smith, Yeda Jung had
young man or the hindfield,
and
that
we
can't
allow
And that longer
in the Junggroup,
in the
city,
and we
are
in the
world and Lotus.
And that
man
has
been
in the
Ergabend.
So,
the
same
is a limit, and young
sits is also a little bit more than that.
And
young people,
and we have
all these
national qualities,
and I was
ya, first,
habit is to
be alleged.
Sie hat der Singenum and
the game.
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Okay, I was
clear, that we have a young man,
and
I think it's a very important thing.
And
Habi Simitkinum in the therapy,
and
Dr.
Frank,
and there were
therapy rolled, then
it was a very important thing.
If we could also therapy, that
figured out the therapy,
but the
second half
of the clause,
or
whatever,
then Wolfgang,
what
can we do?
I
also familiar with
you,
so seen,
I
get laundered.
When it is not
an alternative,
I was
able to
read
that.
Than
you can't do it.
That's why
Philip?
Yes.
And that we
can't do that.
I
mean,
I think it's a very important thing.
It's not allowed.
We had good?
We had tolle
fields
and
whatnot,
but
that
was the
end, and sex works,
and the habit
and
the
children of the world.
And the habit
is
and then
we
have
The wolf is
not a very good idea.
I don't know what
it is.
I wonder if normal.
Yeah,
no designer normal
and that
then
he
has a technical market, but in the moment,
Claribus
in a year, that morale,
but
I
think the generation would also
be
able to do it.
And when we mentioned that
with
the
wonder, so they
were able to
generate it, and the completely different
functions.
While
a great one is not
yacht of the doctors and materials,
but
outside and
activities
and
I have also done
activities that
are
bubble,
that
is.
And
then
what
I do is
in the ear,
and then
it beguys, that
was
my
daughter, and how many
people, and what
a kind of good,
and what I was
saying.
How does the sex?
Yeah.
So
the second.
About
the same thing.
But before the board, we have land
cannon.
Yeah, that blitzing.
We are in Hallenburg,
then for me, a blunder cloiner,
and that's
autographed
and
that was
not
what happened,
side
and
then
myself
is
English
and that
is
hard by here than
Muses,
that
I have
seen, I have the Frau Mann and
She
was
happy.
I was
like, that's why that's great.
That's why the
money
was
anonymous,
that we
should have
a lot of people who are not.
And
my labels
from Huntington, with
people,
This is interesting.
So, this business museum.
And that
is the field that
we talked about,
and
it is
also the Elden
and
And that
also
with a
lot of people who are in the world,
And then
my friend is
the seller.
And
that's why the Krose
and
then Warner Mein Frau Ebbe
to be
done and
this situation,
the official
and contested
and nothing else.
Had to do
that,
yeah?
That is better than
I
will egoistic, and
I have a lot of
people,
and
I bend the
habit of
making it a little bit more difficult.
That
we have a year, so do the
same.
Yeah.
I think,
and that's what we
do.
That's what we're talking about,
and I
also
have to say that
when
I must
and the Christian
and
the
so-called
and the
child and Gotzatanamir
Nets and
the people.
Lessons
also.
a
lot, and
the
hat sicher from Freund for Lasenwater
and her library
and
local traffic.
And
I was
like,
this local world,
and I
wolf
and
social dash.
Also,
Frank
was marked here.
The blood and whatever
of a
lot of people are not.
I have so
many
brackets that
are
public.
And then
we
have to
list
and
whiskey,
and
that glass unreasonable
whiskey harmonics.
There's an iceberg about whiskey,
and so
on.
I would
say.
That's why the written norms
aren't that much.
function.
And what also
is the same thing?
And this
is
my
favorite that
you have to do.
But I can't say any industry in English.
Yeah, but
then
familiar or
something.
Then I note
and
Sylvester
Pacheco
and the
cannon.
It Is my
father with
me?
And it is my solution, that I
am and
I think it's not a very good thing.
Okay, I said that.
Yeah, and she had
a schlime,
that was
very
strict.
And the schlime weird, that my
kind of
in the
site
would
instrumentalize
that
function
and
Elton, officer, my Elton,
what's the
same?
Acho, all the
sits to the Elton
Arms.
Dashaba dinner wisdom,
also
a little bit of a single thing.
Yeah, yeah, and she's
not
a good party,
why not director?
Achoo, that's what
I'm saying.
Yeah.
That is a moral iron.
Yes, then
accept
what
I
have,
I
think, so a ballet director.
The statement is
okay.
Yeah.
So we do not
have to
be networked, but in the evolution of it, or the hens,
that's the same thing.
We have
to
go
to
demos
in local
and
discovery
in my
connection, not
ideal,
that
theater
from
And so
familiar,
but not
reverse, also
but the
IBE or in the
Ganzo.
Yeah, that was
my passion, that I
don't
know,
or
what
we
were
creating, that when one
is
here, but
it is not a very important thing.
The hatred is
not
functional.
And that's why
we need to
go in.
minute.
Those dances
with
the
same thing.
Yes,
totally
anarchist,
and
we
are offering
contacts
and
with won,
and Iramudagen,
and
I would
say
Iramuda in a
way, and
Wertalt also
understood,
and
religion would not.
Then that immune
and when you
go and then
I
die, I
think it is
and
what
I label or I
feel
the middle leader that
is not going to be a very good thing.
Yeah, that
we
have
normal,
and yeah,
but also
goodness studies, but
that was to be
we spring
in 2007 that
all
the former
studies
partnerships, a
Lebesgue.
So, I said
it is
not
a problem.
Okay.
We have
this
right
when we.
also
What if
you
were ahead
of it?
And so that's what I
ended up doing in the European
light
and
gay and grey.
And at self-deine.
Yes, that's what I
think.
I was
a
culture coming to
Lutteshawk
from
here.
That's how
Dr.
Heilmann Lutteshen
and that
local
and
how
confirming
that
Junglish Lutheran
and David
Bay?
And the
Wirkish Ernst Wagtail
is
a
very
bad
barrier.
And then we
have a
Wolfgang.
and we
got my sister, that is the
most
important,
and
that is my
favorite, and the Hamis Einstein,
and that is my
favorite, and
my sister also
And
that would
be
a good thing.
And then
you can see that the market is not a problem.
And if there is 2000 Zybtsen, it's not
here.
Karma Zimmer does
200 zips,
a few.
little
bit more.
Had
more
than that, that
was
the future.
That was
good,
but
But I think
it's a
little bit
too much.
That is the
reason why
in Bundeslar Kalten.
That must be the market
that
we
have
in Bundesthagen,
the
nationalist.
I will not be the nationalist
and then
And the water
in the Bundesrepublik.
And here for
the Elf Jahlanga,
that
in Bundeslit Krummt,
and the
water
die
that I
was
in order to
do, and then the
clause all activists in Bundesliga,
what they offer.
Oh, yeah.
That's my
nominal
And there can be
a lot of
text
for the Schauspiel,
the
of
Croman and Herschel,
and when all
is
gangstole, and
I will be there, or
in contact,
let's
say by
van Dijk, and the Buchwork,
and
what Frankfurt,
and
when
I
was in the middle of the morning, I returned to
Benz, and I wasn't
warned, but it's only the theme that
The thing is also
the
key
to the European I think.
So, that's why
I
feel that the homophobia that
we have
or transperson in that.
The fuel
or
direct IPO is a very important thing.
I must immediately.
people.
I
think
the
crusades.
And
I
think when
we
say
that, and the politics,
history, and we
have
to
do that
with my steward, where the police
policies and good
and
all the politics.
And that is the
way
of the newer
police or the
world.
Has and
the Internet has
been
the EU agent
for the trigger
queer mention in the European Union, and the Letzbricht
yielded
person hat geld.
Dutch,
here is
the same thing, and thus
the Meisten also
is in the
world.
Immerhenden Tim rundum queerness, an unschooled
behind, tortured the
mobbing dot from 2000, but
no.
These
alleger
queer men in
the foreground
and
the sound of the sky,
and so
you wouldn't
see
the Bible and that all ellipse?
That we
have in Schul when I
say
that in the program,
the
Muslims, that is also
a campaign,
and the
most
important
the same matter that
a person
can
be
good,
and where we
are,
and find the soft
in the Schulefield
group, the
extraordinary people,
and
that the
harmony in Schul
and Melton House is out
of
my way
that
is this immanent
and
this is
all
these relative speeds, so
that
also
is the iron
best
wooden.
Why do you
think
and
all
the things that we have to do?
Has this
bitter order of
No, thank you.
Musagraphale and Manchester
Odochen
and Hasanita Wisconsin, then Odawich,
then
feel free to.
And
I cannot
group and
sexuality,
what
many young people,
with Jung, we have
grouped
in the market
is what
I
you.
There were garniers
and
what
great.
And they had my social nomination
and also
good and the Connect
Nick.
So just thanks
for
watching when I direct Manhead Kengeland and Saturday.
When does it
feel like
Susannah or Erasmus?
all mergers
that
are not going to be able to do it.
It's
a commercial.
I have in this podcast,
the gas
is when he comes from this moment.
So, this moment in a
clockwise
moment in the world.
And we
have a moment and Allison,
I suppose,
and yet
we can
read.
That's my
what Ganswild has done.
That is a paragraph on the Trump
Ergene Margarita, and that we in Unzamland
and
modern and often
regeneration
when we
go to Klaus Duchess, not a festival, and for
the sense of the
world.
And so it is in health,
it is a warm, cluge, fruit, and holistic person,
through
and that is my
clause is kein.
Geschichte
is 1,000
in Deutschland.
This is so
paragraph
in this
gunregeschichte,
Mark Waller, is a classic.
In 2000, we have
a
terror organization in Fuji and first.
I'm also
going to be able to
podcast and
feel
totally
out there in a podcast fighter in Europe and an Euro family.
We have
in a nice
video.
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