How Social Media Is Changing Tennis Forever | Sam Querrey DSH #1250

Speaker 1 If you took a poll of all the guys in the top 100, which major would you want to win the most? I think Wimbledon would win.

Speaker 2 I think worldwide Wimbledon's known more amongst non-sports fans.

Speaker 1 As you say Wimbledon, people know that it's tennis, right? For U.S. Open, French Open, you kind of have to specify like you're talking about the tennis, French open, or the tennis open.

Speaker 1 Tennis US Open.

Speaker 2 All right, guys, we got Sam here, former tennis pro, now pickleball pro. Thanks for coming on, man.
Yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah, what a transition.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, if you're playing tennis, going into pickleball, it's not like the toughest transition. Right.
It's a transition. There's harder ones, I'd imagine.
Definitely.

Speaker 2 And with pickleball, you could probably play into your later years, right?

Speaker 2 Yes. I kind of say, like, if you are playing tennis and you're going to pickleball, pickleball, it's easy to get good, hard to get great, like anything, especially coming from tennis.

Speaker 2 You pick it up quick, but if you want to, that first 90% is easy. That last 10%,

Speaker 2 you got to put in the work like anything and practice all day every day to get to the top interesting would you say it's harder to get to the top of pickleball or tennis tennis really yeah um i mean i'm not to the top of pickleball i got kind of got to the top of tennis i was much better yeah um tennis you have to put in a little more work physically it's a global sport there's there's better athletes around the world like fine for those top spots so it was As of right now, like tennis, definitely more difficult to get to the top.

Speaker 2 That's a good point because pickleball is really only big here right now, right? Only here, yeah. It's starting to branch out in other parts of the world, but for the most part, it's only in the U.S.

Speaker 2 How did the pickleball community embrace tennis players coming over? I think early on, it's, you know, pickleball has been popular, let's say, for two years, two, three years, really.

Speaker 2 And so I think early on, the pickleball community, and by community, I'm saying like the other pickleball pros,

Speaker 2 were a little

Speaker 2 apprehensive, a little jealous maybe of some of the tennis pros coming over just because they were kind of stealing some of the thunder, some of the recognition some of the fame but now it's great there's a handful of other tennis pros jack sock genie bouchard donald young that have come over to pickleball um and and everyone's getting along everyone's everyone's friendly with each other i think the tennis community was like really interested in how the tennis players would do in pickleball so they were almost like more pro tennis players going to pickleball than vice versa it's funny seeing the comments on social media about pickleball dude there's some haters but there's also people that really love the sport totally because i'm still involved in tennis too and yeah i get a lot of comments of like dude why are you going to why do you play pickleball what are you doing like get a real sport yeah exactly and it's because pickleball is so easy i'll admit that like you give me someone that's never played and then let me go on the court with them for five minutes they'll be able to hit a ball back and forth and that's the beauty to pickleball too everyone can play tennis if you want to keep a rally going you're probably going to need to take some lessons it's going to And they're expensive lessons.

Speaker 2 Weeks, months, things like that. Yeah, yeah, totally.
Exactly. I remember my mom made me take lessons.
It was like 100 an hour and I was like eight years old. Yeah, that's a lot for a kid, you know?

Speaker 2 It absolutely is. Yeah.
And then the rackets and everything. Tennis is an expensive sport, clothes, rackets.
And then if you're a good junior player, you start traveling to these events.

Speaker 2 You know, you get airline tickets, hotel tickets, things like that. It adds up.
When did the ROI and tennis start for you? Was it in your later years or was it right away? It was right away for me.

Speaker 2 So I was a good junior tennis player.

Speaker 2 I was fortunate to have parents that, you know, could get me junior lessons. I was able to travel to tournaments.
I was going to go play in college at USC. I turned pro

Speaker 2 about

Speaker 2 two, three months before college started. And so if you're a top junior in the world, which I was at the time, I was maybe ranked seven, eight in the world, you get lucrative clothing contracts.

Speaker 2 So I got a clothing contract at the time from Adidas. I got a racket contract from Prince Rackets.
And then I also did this

Speaker 2 kind of situation that my dad set up. I got five investors to all give me 100 100 grand.

Speaker 2 So I got 500 grand up front and then they got a percentage of my prize money over the next, I think it was seven years. Wow.
Yeah. So I was fortunate that right away

Speaker 2 got that. And then in tennis too, if you're top 100, which I was pretty soon after that, if you're in the main draw of the Grand Slams.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, at the time your check was probably $40,000 to lose first round. Now it's $100,000 just to lose first round.
Really? The U.S. Open, Wimbledon, French Open, things like that.

Speaker 2 That's not bad at all. No.
And they do that four times a year. Exactly.
No, you've done a bunch of work to get yourself into that situation, that ranking. Right.

Speaker 2 It's not like they just randomly picked 100 people.

Speaker 2 You've worked really hard to get your ranking from a thousand up to top 100 to earn the right to play in those four majors. So is that how it works?

Speaker 2 Is each round, like as you progress, you make more money? Is that how the majors work? Exactly. That's how every tournament works.
But yeah, majors, I'm kind of spitballing here and guessing.

Speaker 2 But right now, the Australian Open that just happened, first round would be about $100,000. Second round, maybe $160,000, third round.

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Speaker 2 275 and then all the way up and the winner probably got about three million. Wow, I did not know that's how they pay out their athletes.

Speaker 2 Yeah, the at the at the grand slams, Australian Open, French Open, Wimbledon, U.S. Open, it's about 3 million to win it.
That's fascinating.

Speaker 2 And then, like you said, you got the brand deals and stuff now. And nowadays, we're talking out there about the social media aspect of the business too.
Exactly.

Speaker 2 Like, you know, I caught the tail end of Instagram and the social media. I should have probably looked, kind of jumped into it a little more.

Speaker 2 But yeah, now you see a lot of these young tennis players, the brand deals they've got a list of 25 sponsors and they're doing stuff on instagram and tick tock it's a it's a different world right i remember obviously fedderer's deal with rolex that was a classic i mean federal if if you were a guy and you're like give me the 10 companies you want to be sponsored by it was like the 10 that fedder had rolex mercedes gillette netchex yeah swiss chocolate nike it was a cool list it was nuts and doll had richard millie right yep yeah it still does yeah that those watches are nasty dude a lot of tennis players have watch sponsors i noticed that it's like it's a big thing it's classy it's classy yeah i never had one but a lot of uh a lot of guys did and a lot of current players do as well yeah you didn't get approached by any watch companies no or i don't my if my agent ever did it never was a cool one but no i never never had a watch deal wow that's surprising because you were like really up there in the rankings at certain points of your career yeah i got to 11 in the world um

Speaker 2 but yeah never It's all right. I wonder how they base it.
Nah, you're 11. You got to be top 10, actually.

Speaker 2 I think different companies base it on ranking, but some, all right, you're ranked 20 in the world, but you have a personality and you've got a big following.

Speaker 2 So it's a lot of tennis where you're getting your endorsement deals from kind of depends on personality or where you're from in the world. Someone from

Speaker 2 America or Australia or Italy.

Speaker 2 might be more valuable to a brand than someone maybe from a smaller Eastern European country, just because they've got more people from America and Italy and things like that. That makes sense.

Speaker 2 Yeah, some of those, most of those watch brands are more internationally based, I'd say. Exactly.
Yeah. Yeah, that makes total sense.
Yeah. And you were before the NIL money, too.

Speaker 2 So it was a lot tougher to source deals, I'd imagine. Yeah, you know, that would, and that's a better question like for my agent or tennis agents.

Speaker 2 You know, I think, I think if you're a 10 agent, I know tennis, like if you're a tennis agent right now,

Speaker 2 not necessarily saying it's easier to get deals, but I feel like there's more opportunity. There's more little one-off brand deals through social media than there was 15 years ago.
For sure.

Speaker 2 Did you want to accomplish every goal you had for your tennis career?

Speaker 2 You know, I don't know. I didn't really, going back 20 years, I didn't sit down and say, hey, these are all my tennis goals.

Speaker 2 I never, I never was really like a, a person that set out each year or big picture to have like five goals I wanted to reach.

Speaker 2 If I, if I played well, tried hard, had good tennis results, my ranking kept going up, life was good. And that's kind of how I looked at it.
Were you tying your identity to your ranking?

Speaker 2 Like, did that have a lot of importance for you?

Speaker 2 It didn't. Life was definitely more fun when you're ranked higher.
Right. You know, when you're ranked like 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 20, you know, you're playing in bigger moments.

Speaker 2 You're playing in semifinals of Wimbledon or quarterfinals of the U.S. Open or Wimbledon, things like that.

Speaker 2 You're making more money. You're on ESPN and tennis channel more often.
You know, when you're ranked 80, still fun. You're still playing the tournaments, but you're not getting that recognition that

Speaker 2 you like.

Speaker 2 And so I would kind of say it's just way more fun when you're ranked tire right yeah because you get the televised matches you get the better courts totally you're making more money from sponsors just life's more fun yeah did the bigger stages frighten you like playing in front of huge audiences uh no there was definitely times where i would be nervous i think everyone gets nervous but for the most part um

Speaker 2 you know i was one of those players i i had a lot of big wins i had a lot of wins over top 10 players, beat a handful of times, beat the players that were number one in the world.

Speaker 2 But then I also had a lot of like bad losses. I had times where I lost the players that weren't even in the top 100.

Speaker 2 So I was a little more up and down and a little streaky with my play where I had big highs and I had some lows as well. But for the most part, when I played on a like a big stadium or a big event,

Speaker 2 I played well. My level came up.
That makes sense. That's cool.
Yeah, I know you had that win against Jogovich in 2016, right? 30 to 1 underdog.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I didn't even know the odds, but that was, all right, yeah. 30 to 10.
Did some research. Yeah, I think at the time he had won the U.S.
Open, one Australian Open, one French Open.

Speaker 2 So if he had won Wimbledon, he would have held all four Grand Slams at once. Wow.
Has anyone ever done that? Yeah, I think it's been done.

Speaker 2 Not recently, though. Not recently.
No, no. Maybe by a couple people.
I would have to go back and look. Because it's so competitive now.
It'd be so hard to do that these days. It'd be so tough.

Speaker 2 Especially because of the French. Exactly.
The French is different. But yeah, that was an awesome match.
And that was played over two days because.

Speaker 2 At the time in 2016, Wimbledon didn't have, now the court is covered. They have lights.
You can play until 11 p.m. At the time, you didn't, so you could play until about 9 p.m.
Wow.

Speaker 2 So we had a rain delay. We stopped.
Another rain delay stopped. Then we played till about 9 p.m.
Match called for darkness. Went back to your house.
Came back the next day and finished.

Speaker 2 But when people ask me, what's your favorite tennis moment? What was your like biggest match? Like, that's the one I talk about. Yeah.

Speaker 2 That's such an interesting thing because it's kind of like unsettled business. Like you're going home, like the match isn't over.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And when I, when the match was called, I won the, I was up two sets to love. I won the first set 7-6, won the second set 6-1.
Wow. Match called.

Speaker 2 Then you have to go back to your house where I was staying. And in your head, you have the belief, but you also kind of think, there's a little bit of doubt saying like, all right, I'm playing Novak.

Speaker 2 Like he gets a fresh start now. Is he going to like tap into like that number one ranking and that Novak GOAT status that he has and just come out and beat me the next day?

Speaker 2 I mean, he's known for his stamina, his, his five-setters, like just grueling matches, right? Oh my gosh. He could five, six hours.

Speaker 2 He's, I mean, he has an argument in my mind as like one of the fittest greatest athletes of all time in any sport wow you know just with the majors he's won and the commitment and

Speaker 2 you'll be at tournaments and he's eating food out of tupperware it's co-made quinoa nothing goes into his body that is not just absolutely pure i love that but going back to that match we came back the next day he he won the third set and so in my head I remember thinking, all right, it's been fun.

Speaker 2 I'll probably honestly lose in five minutes. But then we'll somehow manage to come back and win the fourth set.
Nice. And that was, that was cool.
That's cool, dude.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I feel like the longer the match for him, the better, honestly. Yeah, I mean, he's at any given moment, he was the most fit guy in tennis.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And he's got the mental side of the game unlocked, too. I feel like that's super important in tennis.
Yeah. I mean, if you're fit, that helps with your mentality.

Speaker 2 You know that at any given moment, I can physically play longer than my opponent. So I can just stay back there, make balls, make forehands, make backhands.

Speaker 2 Like eventually, my fitness will take over and I'll be able to kind of beat the guy in the other court. But yeah, Novak's Novak's fitness, he basically never got tired.

Speaker 2 There were a few other guys like that, but he was at the top. That's impressive.
How common was it for you to get tired mid-match, like super burnt out or like third, fourth of his set?

Speaker 2 It happened at times. There was times like, you know, I'd get tired or you'd cramp.
I had a few times where like my legs cramped or like an arm cramped and I had to retire from a match.

Speaker 2 Damn, from a cramp? Yeah. You know, sometimes like, you know, I remember once my hand cramped and it just kind of went down like this and I couldn't pry my hand back.
Hold it.

Speaker 2 I couldn't hold the ever had my hand cramped before. Tennis, you're holding a yeah, that makes sense.
But yeah, occasionally the Australian Open or the U.S.

Speaker 2 Open, it's, it's 100 degrees and you're three, three and a half hours into a match. Yeah.
And yeah, at times I had to kind of tap out.

Speaker 2 Didn't happen too often, maybe four or five times. Yeah.
I saw when Jokovich just retired, the fans were upset, but at the same time, like he's injured. Like, what do you want him to do? Yeah.

Speaker 2 And his was more of like a groin injury. His wasn't like a, oh, we're four hours in and I'm cramping.
That was like a legit. I have pulled something in his, in his groin.

Speaker 2 He he on twitter later that day put out the image i saw showing like hey this is the actual injury that's why i like him because he's so raw he'll call out what he what he doesn't believe like that one reporter yep no absolutely look novak i know he's polarizing like him or not like him he gives incredible answers he gives real raw answers and they're They're answers that are well thought out.

Speaker 2 They're in depth. He's a very bright guy.
And

Speaker 2 he's an awesome guy to interview. I love after his matches when they go on the court and interview him.

Speaker 2 It's an interesting time to listen because he'll give you a great answer. It's not just, hey, what'd you do to get through that first set? Oh, I just had to find a way.

Speaker 2 Like, he's going to be like, no, I, at 3-4, I dug down mentally and got to a place where I knew I had to shorten the rally or do he gives you a great answer, which is refreshing.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I love that because some of those finals interviews just feel so cookie cutter sometimes. Yeah, but 90% of them.
Novak gives you a raw, in-depth, calculated answer. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's always like, oh, my opponent played amazing, but

Speaker 2 today was my day. Yeah, that's everyone.
That's everyone.

Speaker 2 Well, there's that tennis is such like a, I play chess. It's like a really respectful sport, I feel like there's not a lot of shit talkers other than like Kirigos and a few others, you know?

Speaker 2 Absolutely. I mean, for the most part in tennis,

Speaker 2 at any given time, there was a hundred, you know, 100 guys in the top hundred. Everyone was pretty nice.
Right. Everyone got along.
You played with them a bunch.

Speaker 2 But yeah, tennis was a little more like a chess. Up until two years ago, which now you're allowed coaching on court.
My entire career, there was no coaching. Oh, really? I didn't know that.

Speaker 2 They just started it two years ago. You can coach.
Whoa. When you're on the side of the court that your coach is on, you can coach.
When you go to the other side, you can't. Interesting.

Speaker 2 But when I, my entire career, no coaching. So, as a player, you had to figure out on your own, which is, I didn't like that.
I would have loved to coach. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But a lot of players like that, the fact that you had to figure out on your own while you're on the court.

Speaker 2 That's fascinating because they would always show the coach on the video when you're watching it on TV. But yeah, now that you said that, they were never talking to the player.

Speaker 2 No, they might give some basic

Speaker 2 stay up on your serve, like keep your feet, you know, keep your feet moving, things like that. But not, you couldn't give detailed kind of breakdowns of what you should do different.
Now you can't.

Speaker 2 Wow. So do you like the new spice to tennis, how people are more like, I guess, talkative and stuff? I do.
I think that's social media.

Speaker 2 I mean, because you can, all these young players, especially the Americans, they've got a big social media presence. You get to see their personalities a little more.

Speaker 2 Tennis seems like it's in a great place with all of them.

Speaker 2 Especially in America, because we have Taylor Fritz, Ben Shelton, Francis TFO,

Speaker 2 Tommy Paul. We've got four or five guys in the top 20 in the world.
So we're seeing more like Americans, especially in big moments at these grand slams. Yeah.
That didn't happen in your era, right?

Speaker 2 No. My era, we had John Isner, who had a great career.
He was top 20 for a decade, semifinal, Wimbledon, a bunch of other quarterfinals, myself.

Speaker 2 We had Steve Johnson, Jack Sock. We had a few guys, but we never had four or five guys in the top 20 20 at any one given time.
Right. Yeah.
You played after Roddick's era, right?

Speaker 2 I had a little, yeah, Roddick and James Blake. Yeah.
We crossed over for a couple years.

Speaker 2 But then, yeah, I kind of had

Speaker 2 the decade of those guys that I just mentioned. Oh, God.
Did you play against Roddick ever? Played Roddick six times. What's your record against him? Two and four.
Ooh. Yeah.

Speaker 2 To be fair, I got him a little late in his career.

Speaker 2 I didn't, the wins weren't when he was number one in the world, but Roddick was, you know, growing up when I was 14, 15, 16, like Roddick was the guy. Facts.

Speaker 2 You know, he got to number one in the world, won the U.S. Open.
I think every

Speaker 2 young tennis player, like Roddick was their favorite player. And he had the visor and the hair.
He had personality. He was a fun guy to watch and cheer for.

Speaker 2 I still remember his five-set loss to Fedderer. It might have been U.S.
Open finals. Wimbledon.
Or was it Wimbledon, yeah. And he almost won that game, bro.

Speaker 2 I think he lost to Fedderer in three Wimbledon finals. Oh, was it three? He's been to three.
One of them was five sets, but I'm saying three times he made the first one.

Speaker 2 I think I'm talking about the last one. The last one.
Because he he was retiring soon. He lost the brutal one to Roger at the finals of Wimbledon, like a 16-14 in the final.

Speaker 2 I think that's the one I'm talking about.

Speaker 2 I think, I mean, Andy was great on grass, great at Wimbledon.

Speaker 2 I don't know if he would trade a U.S. Open trophy for a Wimbledon trophy, but I think he would.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Do each ones have different values, I guess, for players, or are they all kind of seen as the same? I think they have different values for different players.

Speaker 2 If you ask me, I would rather win Wimbledon, then the U.S. Open, then the French Open, then the Australian Open.
Really? If you asked a French player, they probably do French Open, then

Speaker 2 you know, if you ask, you know, a lot of Americans would maybe rather win the U.S. Open first than Wimbledon second.

Speaker 2 Generally speaking, I think if you took a poll of all the guys in the top 100, which major would you want to win the most? I think Wimbledon would win.

Speaker 2 I think worldwide, Wimbledon's known more amongst non-sports fans. As you say Wimbledon, people know that it's tennis.
Right. Or U.S.
Open, French Open.

Speaker 2 You kind of have to specify, like, you're talking about the tennis, French Open or the Tennis Wimbledon? Tennis U.S. Open? Yeah, because of golf, right? Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Which court did tennis start on? Was it grass?

Speaker 2 Probably. I honestly don't know.
You know, tennis has been around forever.

Speaker 2 Yeah, if you go back 50, 60 years, there was a lot more tournaments on grass. But it's kind of flipped now.

Speaker 2 Now there's only, there's Wimbledon on grass and a few tournaments before Wimbledon that are on grass, and that's it. The grass court season is one month long.
Damn.

Speaker 2 Everything else is on a hard court or clay court.

Speaker 2 I feel like grass probably isn't as hard on your joints right right yeah no it's soft you it feels good it's it's hard to maintain grass you know if you have a club that has grass courts you're mowing it every day you're you're rolling it it's just so much upkeep it's so expensive if you have a if you have a a tennis club and you have five grass courts like you have someone tending and caring for them multiple times a day and

Speaker 2 based on where you are in the world you need the weather and the climate to be right so they're just it's difficult to have a grass court yeah it sounds tough logistically i think clay court you just throw the clay on there you sweep it you water and it's good to go hardcore you put the cement down it's fine yeah i looked up your win percentage on each court grass is probably the best grass is the best 63 yeah u.s open 53 french open 26 yeah so you really struggled on clay i struggled on the clay yeah a lot of americans do right yes that is kind of the the knock on americans do well on the clay at least on the men's side the women different story but the men yeah i mean and to be fair growing up in america i grew up in southern california most places in america when you grow up playing tennis you grow up playing on a hard court where the european junior tennis player only plays on clay so for me and a lot of other players like we don't play on clay growing up and it's a different mentality the way you teach tennis on clay as opposed to grass or hardcore um and my game also was suited better for grass i'm a tall guy grass court.

Speaker 2 I'm someone who liked the ball to be fast. I'd hit a servid, skid through.
I want to look to the, come to the net and,

Speaker 2 you know, the grass helps with that. Where Clay, I'll hit a serve, but a guy can drop way back in the court.
And Clay builds on the ball and slows it down. And guys can play defense on me.

Speaker 2 I struggle to penetrate shots through the players. And so it just didn't suit my game.
Wow. I didn't know it was that much of a difference.

Speaker 2 Yeah, the massive difference between a clay court and a grass court. So you can't hit as hard, basically.

Speaker 2 You can hit as hard, but it's just not going to penetrate through as much on the clay because clay is building on the ball. So the ball just kind of gets heavier.

Speaker 2 Wow. Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's a big difference the way you play and go and go about your

Speaker 2 strategy on grass and clay. Yeah.
Who was one opponent you couldn't figure out your whole career? You just struggled to play against?

Speaker 2 It's Roger Federer. I mean, I was able to beat Jokovich and Nadal and Murray.
Federer, I played, I think, five times, lost all five, and never even had a close set against him. Wow.

Speaker 2 I got a couple sets at like 6-4.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 the way his game matched up to mine, it just didn't sit right with me. And he was able to put me in uncomfortable positions.
And it was also different playing Federer compared to Jokovich or Nadal.

Speaker 2 Fedder, for whatever reason, his name seemed bigger. So I was always a little more nervous.
And anytime you played Fedder, it was on a center court at. Right.

Speaker 2 at Wimbledon or the French Open or these big events.

Speaker 2 And the crowd love, he was beloved everywhere. So you were, you were always nervous.
The crowd always wanted him to win.

Speaker 2 And I just could never settle in against him and never got close to winning a set against him, even when I was playing at my best. Wow.

Speaker 2 That's interesting because you beat Jokovich, you beat Nadal, you beat Murray, but you couldn't beat Federer. And not, and I'm saying, not close.
Not even a set.

Speaker 2 Yeah, even some other times I lost to Nadal. At least I would, I would win a set or the set would be close.
Federer just

Speaker 2 never would never was comfortable against him. Wow.
So that being said, you probably get asked this all the time, but tennis goat you got federer

Speaker 2 i have jokovic as the as the best tennis player of all time okay most impactful person federer i think if you kind of went around the world and said who do you love watching the most who made the biggest impact on your life i think federer wins that but if i just gave you three blind resumes federer jokovich nadal said who's who's the best here you'd just be like oh this guy definitely and it would be jokovic right so you factor in the data and the stats more than the personal experience yes Oh, God.

Speaker 2 Yes. Yeah, because you probably played them at different points of their career too.
So it's not a fair concept. No, I mean, I played them all when they were at their, at their peak.

Speaker 2 I put them all at their number when they're number one in the world.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 yeah, Federal I had the toughest time playing against. But if you're just going like, who's the best tennis player ever? Like, Jokovich's resume backs that statement up.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean, he's already got the record, right, for titles. He's got the record for most majors.
He's got a bunch of other records too, you know, like most time spent at number one, career prize money,

Speaker 2 masters series, and probably, you know, he's won every

Speaker 2 master's series, these big events that aren't majors. There's like nine other ones.
He's won them all three times. So his resume just looks is crazy.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 What's the strategy behind playing in those side tournaments? Because I notice the top guys sometimes don't play in those, right? So the way tennis works is.

Speaker 2 Your ranking is based on 18 tournaments. So the four majors, Australian Open, French Open, Wimbledon, and U.S.
Open.

Speaker 2 And then at any given time, there's eight or nine Master Series or these next group of big tournaments. You have to play all those.
So those 12 or 13 tournaments automatically count towards your 18.

Speaker 2 The other four, five, six events

Speaker 2 are your best four, five, or six. And those are played all over the world.
If you're a top player, they'll pay you to come play them. You usually would play the ones that are in your region.
If so,

Speaker 2 this week, for example, there's tournaments in America, in South America, in Europe. As an American, I'm probably going to play the ones in America.

Speaker 2 South Americans, a lot of them will play the ones in South America. So you kind of go on what's convenient to where you live and like, where am I going to get an appearance fee is what they call it.

Speaker 2 Where can they pay me the most to go play those tournaments? Appearance fees are usually given to guys top 25 in the world. Got it.
So similar to track and field.

Speaker 2 Yes, I know absolutely nothing about track and field, but yes, you know, these fetered and all jokovich at the majors and those master series, you cannot get paid to play them. Got it.

Speaker 2 Any other tournament, you know, those guys are getting a million dollars to show up. And appearance fees can go all the way down to here's $5,000 in two free hotel rooms.
Right.

Speaker 2 Anywhere in between that, that's how players determine where else they would go.

Speaker 2 Yeah, tennis, the business side is fascinating to me because most players do not make enough to live off of tennis, right? You're saying basically top hundred. Top hundred is making a lot.

Speaker 2 I mean, I don't have the prize the list of prize money in front of me, but I think the guy last year that ended the year 100 in the world

Speaker 2 probably

Speaker 2 made $800,000. Oh, wow.
Yeah. Your expenses are high, though.
You know, that's what people don't realize as a tennis player. When I went somewhere, I paid for a coach.

Speaker 2 I paid for a physiotherapist that I split with another player.

Speaker 2 I had myself and my wife.

Speaker 2 getting four airline tickets every week somewhere and you're paying a coach's salary and a physiotherapist's salary and hotels and food.

Speaker 2 So, you know, that guy who's 800 or who's 100 in the world that made 800,000, he's got 300,000 in expenses for the year. Wow.

Speaker 2 But yeah, top 100, top 150, top 175, you're making a good living. I think number then, I think now it's more like 200 in the world that you would make the argument of you're not.

Speaker 2 making a you're making a tough living right go back 15 years ago you would have said a hundred in the world you're good anything outside of that you're struggling the prize money has gone up a ton in the last decade that makes sense is pickleball similar where it's like the top hundred no um no

Speaker 2 pickleball is i i'm still new to pickleball so pickleball basically there is prize money at these tournaments yeah and pickleball because it's so new it the rules and the structure and everything has been changed.

Speaker 2 Every three months, there's something, a breakthrough, a different league structure. They're figuring it out.

Speaker 2 Basically, in pickleball, a handful of players about a year and a half ago signed three-year deals of like guaranteed money to play in the leagues. Got it.

Speaker 2 There's also prize money, but the prize money goes against that guarantee that you made.

Speaker 2 So you can't, you know, if you got 100 grand to play and you made 5,000 in prize money, that's just being, that's, you don't get the 5,000 on top of the 100. So it goes back to the sponsor?

Speaker 2 I guess so. I'm not really sure.
But so everyone's got two more years left on these guaranteed deals. After that, I don't know what will happen.

Speaker 2 But no, the pickleball money in terms of prize money and sponsorships is one one hundredth of tennis. Because it's so new.
It's so new. Yeah.

Speaker 2 If you sign one of these guaranteed contracts, which a lot of players did, you had to be right place, right time a year and a half ago, you're making good money.

Speaker 2 If you're coming into pickleball right now and playing these tournaments and trying to work through your draws and get some prize money, no, you have another job. You can't make enough.

Speaker 2 So it's a side job right now. Yeah.
I mean, every sport starts like that. Even basketball, people were plumbers and electricians when the NBA started.
Exactly.

Speaker 2 Pickleball, there's a core group of 100 players, let's call it, men and women, that they're making good money this full time.

Speaker 2 Everyone else, they're probably doing something else while trying to pursue a pickleball career. That makes sense.
You try paddle yet, man? That stuff's been blown up. I've tried it.
Yeah. Paddles.

Speaker 2 You're talking about Padelle in the Padel, yeah. Padel.

Speaker 2 We used to play Padell when we were traveling in Europe for tennis 15 years ago. Some of the tennis venues that have Padella, we go in there and mess around.
But you're right, it's blown up. It's

Speaker 2 specifically in South Florida, New York, Europe, it's huge. South America, West Coast, LA, Vegas, it's not big, but it's growing.

Speaker 2 You're seeing some courts kind of come together and they've got a league. It's, I don't think it'll blow up in the, in the U.S.
like pickleball, but in Europe, it's bigger than pickleball.

Speaker 2 I don't think a lot of people realize how big Padel is in Europe. I got to say, it looks fun.
I want to try it. It's fun.
You got to be highly skilled to play it.

Speaker 2 It's a much harder game than pickleball. Yeah.
If you're just casually going out trying to figure out Padel, it's, it's tough.

Speaker 2 It does look tough. You could do that.
Especially you got to go out the door sometimes. Out the door.
You got to play the angles off the glass, but a good Padel point is really fun to watch.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it is. I see the clips and it's addicting, man.
Awesome. Yeah.
I will say pickleball, it's not the most fun to watch, no offense.

Speaker 2 I know you're obviously playing it, but I'd rather watch tennis or Padel. I agree with you.
And that's the biggest challenge, I think, in pickleball right now. Pickleball is on TV.

Speaker 2 You're seeing it on, they have pickleball TV. I don't know if you know that.
I didn't know that.

Speaker 2 It's kind of part of tennis channel, but they have pickleball TV.

Speaker 2 It's on Amazon Prime. You can stream courts.
And then every now and then it gets onto Fox Sports or ESPN. And it is fun to watch.
They're still figuring out how to make it a better TV product.

Speaker 2 And I think that's their biggest challenge right now. And they're working hard to do it.
And it is growing and the numbers are growing, but they still need to make it. a better TV product somehow.

Speaker 2 Yeah, certain plays are fun to watch, like when they do the side of the net stuff. Totally.
Highlights are great. But yeah, I totally agree with you.
And I think other pickleball players would agree.

Speaker 2 You don't want to watch four players dink a ball over 40 times in a row. You're like, well, I could do that.
I don't need to watch this.

Speaker 2 So I don't have an answer on like what makes it a better TV product, but

Speaker 2 the pickleball higher-ups need to figure it out. Yeah.
Do you prefer singles or doubles for pickleball? Doubles. Really? Singles is hard.
Okay. Singles, pickleball is very difficult.

Speaker 2 Doubles and mixed doubles is more fun. So at most tournaments, there's singles, doubles, and mixed doubles.
A lot of the players play all three. Wow.
Some of them might only play two of the three.

Speaker 2 I was playing all three. I tore my Achilles eight months ago playing pickleball.
So I'm not playing singles pickleball. Oh, that was in singles? That was in doubles? Oh, it was.

Speaker 2 But I'm not playing singles again.

Speaker 2 If you want to play singles pickleball, you have to be pretty dynamic with your movement. Like almost as much as tennis with the lunging and the court covering.
Doubles and mixed doubles.

Speaker 2 You don't have to be as dynamic with how you're moving around the court. Right.
You kind of have your half. Your partner has.
Yeah. Men's doubles, you have your half.

Speaker 2 Mixed doubles, the male will be a little more scooting over, taking over like 70% of the court. Yeah, I've seen that.
Yeah, so no more singles for me, but singles, singles is hard. Yeah.

Speaker 2 The mixed doubles clips are hilarious. I've seen a guy hit like every shot.
He'll go on her half. And it's always like a joke online, too.
You see like the guy just playing 100% of the court.

Speaker 2 But yeah, you're right. Sometimes the female player will slide over, covering this much court, and the guy's got 90% of the court.
Yeah, that's funny, man.

Speaker 2 I'll keep an eye on it. I'm not fully convinced on the wave, but we'll see if it lasts.
Some people think it might have some longevity to it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And people ask me that, like, is pickleball a bubble? Is it here to stay? I honestly, I go back and forth.

Speaker 2 Like part of me thinks, yeah, it's going to, it's here to stay and it's just going to keep going like this.

Speaker 2 And then the other half of me is like, I don't know, maybe it's peaked and it's just having a moment here for a few years and it'll, it'll phase off and Padelle will. will kick in.

Speaker 2 But I hope it keeps going. I like playing pickleball.
It's fun and I'm I'm cheering for its success. Yeah, I'm a lifetime member, and they just replaced the basketball courts with pickleball.

Speaker 2 Lifetime is, or pickleball is massive in lifetime. A lot of the tournaments we play are at lifetime.
Oh, really? I think the PPA tour, which I play on, they signed a deal with Lifetime.

Speaker 2 So I feel like half their events are at Lifetime. Wow.
That makes sense. Yeah, they've really embraced it, man.
And it makes sense. They're charging their members a lot these days.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and the courts are packed all the time.

Speaker 2 Every time I go, yeah, it's fucked up. You can't fight the supply and demand part of it, right? If people want to play and the courts are packed all the time, just keep building more.

Speaker 2 Yeah, even tennis courts are kind of changing into pickleball now, right? The club that I play at, they used to have 11 tennis courts. They removed two of them, put in eight pickleball courts.

Speaker 2 Now there's nine tennis courts and one pickleball courts, and they're slowly just kind of getting rid of one tennis court at a time, putting more pickleball courts. Yeah, yeah, that's going fast, man.

Speaker 2 Um, did you see the Kyrgyz Andy Rottet beef at all? Or

Speaker 2 not really. I mean, Andy Rottick has a podcast, Serve.
It's great. Um,

Speaker 2 and Kyrios honestly has beef with everyone, like, right? He's

Speaker 2 He's all over social media. Every match he plays,

Speaker 2 he'll run his mouth and say something.

Speaker 2 I know Andy, I didn't see exactly. I know he was maybe a little critical of things that Kyrios has said, which is totally fair.
I mean, how could you not be?

Speaker 2 But yeah, Kyrios, he's been in and out of the game. He's been injured basically for the last three years.
And he's been doing some commentary.

Speaker 2 He's very vocal on the internet about some things, but it was nice. I'd like seeing Andy push back at him.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Curios is one of those what-if players because he made that finals run and then, yeah, three years of injuries. It's like, damn, if he went all in on this, how good would he be?

Speaker 2 And that's the story with him. Yeah.
Like he made the finals of Wimbledon. He's had other, you know, he's beat Feder and all Djokovic.
He's beat all the, all the great players. And,

Speaker 2 you know, but he's also one of those guys where I think if he, if he went all in and had a coach with him and did everything. quote unquote the right way, I don't think he'd be as good.
Really?

Speaker 2 I think he's one of those guys. And we actually, I have a podcast with some extra, with some other tennis guys.
We had him on and interviewed him. Yeah, I saw that.

Speaker 2 And he was just saying, if I did everything that, that right way, that structured way, it wouldn't work for him. He wouldn't be happy.

Speaker 2 I think the fact that he goes about things his own way and is kind of a rebel and plays time tournament, doesn't play, sometimes has a coach, doesn't gets in fights all the time, like that's what makes him good.

Speaker 2 That's what he needs to have success. Yeah, that's such a good point, though, because you see some of these parents overwork their kids and then they end up hating the sport.
Absolutely. Yeah.

Speaker 2 No, I, a lot of times you see, you know, know, parents will ask, like, what does little Johnny need to do? He's eight years old to be a pro. I'm like, does he even like tennis? I don't know.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 I just, sometimes everyone's got a different path. And Kyrios is a unique one on the pros.
And, but that's why I think he's, was successful. Right.

Speaker 2 Cause if you don't genuinely enjoy the game, you're not going to be at the top level. No, no, it's got to be fun.

Speaker 2 And anything you do for the most part, if you're, if you're not enjoying it, it's going to be tough to like get to the top of whatever you're doing.

Speaker 2 And as a fan, you want to watch people that are enjoying what they're doing too. Yeah.
Yeah. It's cool.
You started started a pod, man. You're one of the first tennis ones, right? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Roddick, there's been other ones, but like Roddick has a podcast served that's great. We're a little behind him.
I do one with John Isner, Jack Sock, and Steve Johnson every week. And it's really fun.

Speaker 2 Tennis was kind of late to the podcast. Very late.
You know, football, baseball, basketball, they have all got hundreds of podcasts, but tennis, we're jumping into it. It's been fun.

Speaker 2 We've, and because we're all kind of newly retired, we still have pretty close connections with tour players. So we're throw out texts and try to get some good guests.

Speaker 2 And it's been really fun dude it's awesome because to get in the mindset of a tennis pro that hasn't been done before no there hasn't been long form interviews with some of these great tennis players yeah and so that's where we're trying to do that with a with a bit of fun along with it as well i can't wait to see when you have jokovich on man i'm gonna watch that one we're we can i think we can get him all john isn't there and myself we're friends with jokovich we're we want our pod to grow a little bit before we ask him smart we don't want to ask now and no we like he would probably say yes but that's respectful we want to we want to wait if we're going to throw him the ask, we want to make sure we're like, all right, we've got a great product, a great podcast.

Speaker 2 It's quality. People love it.
Then let's get the goat on it. That's what I did with my show.
I didn't ask on any A-list celebs for like at least six months. Exactly.
We're at the six-month mark now.

Speaker 2 We had Stan Valrenka, three-time Grand Slam champion

Speaker 2 last week. He's the first Grand Slam champion we've had.
I didn't know he won three. Wow.
He won three. I remember watching him when I was younger.
Great Hall of Famer, awesome interview.

Speaker 2 But yeah, when it comes to like Joe Kovich Federon at all, we got to grow a little more and then we'll Serena. We got to grow out.
yeah, Serena would be great. Serena would be unbelievable.

Speaker 2 That's the goat right there for females, right? Oh, yeah, not even undisputed. Well, dude, it's been awesome.
Work people find your pod and keep up with you.

Speaker 1 Uh, podcast, I'm wearing the hat, nothing major.

Speaker 1 Uh, this isn't the logo we got right now.

Speaker 2 This is like we made this day one, uh, but we all wear the hats, nothing major. And then, um, on Instagram, the podcast is nothing major.

Speaker 1 Mine's my name, Sam Query. But uh, yeah, it's been fun.
We got yeah, women clips pods coming out every week. So, check it out.
Perfect. We'll link below.
Thanks for coming on, man.

Speaker 2 Yeah, thank you. Yeah, thanks for watching, guys.
Check them out.