Transforming Waste into Clean Energy | Eden Energy DSH #1287

The hydrolysis is you oxidize and neutralize heavy metals, you break down pathogens.

So we did a study with the DOD in the early days in New York State Department of Health, where we ran tests on Basillium Strep, Thermopolis, and Anthrax. And it's the only technology to ever receive 100% pathogen construction on those pathogens.
Wow. all right guys we're talking energy today.
We got Jonathan from Eden Energy. Thanks for joining us, man.
Yeah, thanks for having me. Just had a fun event in Austin.
Yeah, it was a great time having you guys there and got to meet a lot of really cool and interesting people and tell our story a little bit and looking forward to telling a little bit more. Yeah, you said some stuff on fire over there, right? Yeah, we bought some of the fuel we made and we make fuel from anything carbon-based.
That specific sample was made with like mixed plastics, dog poop, food waste, used cooking oil, things like that. And we did a little burn ceremony where we asked the audience to write down what they want to let go of and we put it in the fire pit, covered it in oil and let those energies go the atmosphere yeah with all the plastic going around the atmosphere we need that right now right yeah for sure and we finally have a solution to plastic I mean there really isn't one out there that is currently being utilized that actually gets rid of it down at the molecular level I mean yeah sure you can pyrolyze it and turn it into a a liquid plastic, which is a subset of fuels, but nothing really cleans up the mess that is in plastic.
And we can do that because we break things down at the molecular level. Yeah.
Why is plastic so dangerous? You know, plastic is a tough one because there's all sorts of different compounds that they use, such as plasticizers and fillers, and they're all different right you have PET which is made from co2 condensation reactions so there's ton of co2 in water bottles right the plastic that they use there but then the plastic that you get like your laundry detergent that's what they call high-density polyethylene right HDPE and that's almost all oil right there's no condensation reactions using that so yeah plastic is really difficult because you can't really recycle it right recycling is such a head fake people believe that when they throw things away in the recycling bin it's actually getting recycled when 95% of what goes into the recycling bin doesn't end up recycled it either gets a landfill or incinerated Wow process work? Which one? Like when you recycle something, does it go to a separate facility? Oh, sure. I mean, a lot of times it goes to a facility, but let's just say you have a bottle that's got some oil traces on it or a label or a different type of cap.
You typically can't recycle that because it's either different types of plastics or it's contaminated where our system doesn't care because if it's carbon-based it can convert so you can have a plastic bottle filled with heavy oil plastic bottle filled with whatever vomit for all i care right it's still going to work it's still going to break it down and convert it into energy nice how'd you come up with this technology because it sounds really sophisticated or uh it's actually a little bit simpler than most people would think, and I can't take credit for coming up with it. That credit belongs to my father.
So we've been walking down this path together since 1997. We've had some really cool successes over the years in advancing this technology.
But like any new technology, it's a long road to get it validated and proven and out to the world. And and now we're finally ready to bring this technology to market.
So it's been really amazing. But my father really just looked at what the earth does.
How does the earth make oil? And there's a lot of misconceptions out there that people believe oil is millions of years old. And when it's some of it could be, but it's not right? And our technology proves that because our technology is simply a reverse engineering of Mother Nature using heat, pressure, time, and water to break things down at the molecular level using free hydrogen as a catalyst to break down carbon bonds.
Yeah, I remember growing up, they told us oil was from dinosaur bones. Yep.
That's a myth, right? I mean, yes and no. Well, first off, it wouldn't be from the bones anyway, right? It would be from the organic, right? Bones are made of calcium.
So that's not really a carbon-based compound where oil is just carbon and hydrogen, right? But yeah, I mean, a lot of the organic material went underneath the surface of the earth. Once it gets down there, heat, pressure, and time, break it it down so sure you could have oil sitting in reserves that's millions of years old but oil is constantly being rejuvenated as it's always being created right it's a constant reaction taking place in the mantle of our earth hmm we should throw up some clips of the demo of how your stuff works on the video too yeah we can definitely do that yeah that.
We've got some really cool footage. Get a visual of it.
Yeah, absolutely. How big is it? Well, we build systems ranging in size from two tons per day, which is a 53-foot trailer and a 20-foot trailer for your control station, all the way up into the tens of thousands of tons a day, which is a full-blown refinery that would take up 100-plus acres.
So we can build these from all shapes and sizes, really depending on the the client's need so that's what we're doing a little bit differently than what we've done in the past in previous iterations we were plant owners and operators right we ran the facilities we built them we paid for them now we're doing it a little bit different where we're going to the waste producer as an equipment manufacturer so we've had a lot of people tell us this is such a disruptive technology, it's amazing. And we have to stop them and say, no, it's not a disruptive technology.
It's an industry enhancer because now everybody who's producing waste can benefit from their waste by turning it back into clean energy on site. So they're greatly increasing their bottom line by getting rid of their cost for disposal of waste and their cost for purchase of energy two birds one stone love it i've seen some countries have so much waste they ship it to other countries have you seen that yeah and especially if you look at china for years and years china was basically collecting everybody's waste thinking that they'd be able to figure out how to do what we have right um but there really isn't a viable solution that's currently on the market outside of what we do um because you look at some of these other technologies like pyrolysis or gasification which very frequently we're compared to um but we're immensely different from both um the simple way i describe it is if uh if pyrolysis is a bird scooter we're a-Royce right you can get from A to B but you're riding in a little bit different style yeah pyrolysis is one of those technologies that has been around a really long time traces its roots all the way back to the ancient Egyptians but here's the problem with pyrolysis there's two major problems one it's completely energy inefficient to make really clean products out of pyrolysis you're looking at a 10 to 20 percent energy efficiency at most down meaning for every 100 units of energy you make you need to take 80 to 90 units of that energy to make the next 100 right and also pyrolysis doesn't solve pollution you take it You take the waste, you put it through pyrolysis, you make energy and more pollution.
Because there's toxic byproducts such as tar and ash, which are immensely costly to get rid of. And then the fuels are often heavily loaded with whatever contaminants were in the waste, whether that's chlorinated compounds, dioxins, furans, heavy metals, because it doesn't do anything about them, right?

So you're really not solving pollution with pyrolysis.

You're kind of just taking pollution, turning it into energy and more pollution, right?

Where what we do, we've been third-party validated over 90% efficient, right?

So you take 100 units of energy, you take 10 of those units, and you make the next 100. So it's significantly higher.
And that's because of how we use water. We're a water-based technology where pyrolysis is a heat-based technology.
So you're more hydrogen-based? Yeah, exactly. We are a hydrogen-based technology.
A lot of people ask us if we can capture it, and we don't try to capture it because that is the magic of what we do.

We use water under pressure to create free hydrogen, which breaks down all those molecular compounds.

So you're able to break everything down at the molecular level.

Now, a lot of your listeners might be familiar with the chemical pesticide glyphosate.

Glyphosate is carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, phosphorus, and hydrogen.

All compounds we all know, nitrogen and phosphorus are great fertilizers everyone knows oxygen and nitrogen and and a hydrogen right those are very common but it's how it's bonded together which makes it an unnatural construct which makes it dangerous to us now what we do is we go in we break that down at the molecular level causing all those elements to become free we literally turn glyphosate a harmful pesticide into an organic nitrogen phosphorus fertilizer wow that's big because they haven't been able to figure out how to get rid of glyphosate right it's in the rain water now i believe 80 percent yeah in america it's in it's in almost everything at this point because it does evaporate wow um so we figured out how to neutralize it and turn it back into a viable product. Damn.
There's some big farms that could use this stuff for their crops. Yeah.
You know, all the pesticides and everything. Yeah.
And look, glyphosate isn't even the worst one. There's one commonly used out there called atrazine, which is why we see so many men around the U.S.
with such low testosterone levels because literally it feminizes you. It brings your testosterone and elevates your estrogen.

There's that famous viral Alex Jones clip where he screams,

they're turning the frogs gay.

And look, they're not turning the frogs gay.

But what is happening is those frogs are becoming highly feminized

to the point where some male frogs are growing ovaries.

So there are chemicals out there that we're using that are just killing us.

And now we have a solution to break them down. Yeah.
Yeah. I think hydrogen is going to be the future of energy, right? In the future.
Yeah, for sure. Right now they're going through some issues, figuring out how to easily store it.
Right. The biggest issue with hydrogen right now is storage.
How do you store it? Because it is just a very light gas. So it's not the easiest to compress and store.
Plus it requires a lot of energy to store it. it right but those are all technologies that we need to be working on I mean we're pouring billions upon billions of dollars into R&D and a lot of these technologies that we're researching I look at them and I say why are we wasting our money we should be spending money on how to store hydrogen better and new and advanced nascent technologies because what we're using right now like wind and solar they've been shown to be very detrimental to the environment really very how does wind damage the environment so when you look at an energy you can't just look at it from the perspective of how does this make energy right you have to look at its full life cycle, right? From manufacturing to operations to disposal.

And when you analyze the full picture of wind,

it's a much different story than the clean energy that everybody talks about.

They're 300 plus feet tall, made of metal, fiberglass, dysprosium,

all these really insane metals.

They require thousands and thousands of gallons of lubricants just to keep spinning.

If there's no wind, there's no energy. Tens of thousands of tons of concrete per wind turbine.
Then you have to worry about the transmission to get that energy because, look, I just drove in from Sedona. You're driving through the desert.
You see all these wind turbines in the middle of nowhere. And it's like, oh, that's great.
It's producing energy. But how do you get that energy from A to B? Oh, you build massive infrastructure.
infrastructure you build massive power lines that's all hydrocarbon energy being used to get these power lines to where they need to be and then you have to have reliable grid you can't be relying on a technology that's unreliable to be able to power all the things you need so all these wind stations they have backup hydrocarbon energy so you're building double the infrastructure so it's it's not a win it's not a not a green technology by any means the wind might be renewable but the wind turbines really have no real solution for recycling until now right we can recycle wind turbines they're almost 40 hydrocarbon from the epoxy right and the uh the fiberglass and silica based compounds would just end up in your biochar but the uh they're they're really not a green tech then you talk about battery storage to store the energy and when you look at battery storage there's not enough minerals in the world to be able to produce enough power for more than like two or three months worth of energy so if we relied solely on wind solar and batteries to power infrastructure, we would be in the dark all the time. Interesting.
Yeah, Elon went pretty all in on solar, right? Yeah, well, you know, solar I'm not as opposed to as I am wind. Solar definitely has uses.
We're going to be installing solar on every single one of our large-scale systems on the roof space. But I'm not someone that believes you should be cutting down farmland or trees to be putting in a solar farm right um especially we've seen how fragile those systems are no sun right no energy you get one bed hail storm it could wipe out the entire panels right so there's a lot of issues with solar as far as the solar farms but solar does have a place in the future of energy.
I just personally don't think

wind does. Yeah.
What about electric, like all these electric vehicles? You know, the EVs are, that's a tricky one because obviously they have uses. If you are using completely green energy, like hydro or nuclear, those are the ones that I do consider green, right? Even though hydro does have its negative effects on the environment as far as ecosystem shaping, right? But if you are using completely green energy, they definitely have benefits.
But then it comes down again to the batteries, right? Where are you sourcing these batteries from? Are you getting the China or even worse? Where are the minerals and substrates for those coming? Siddharth Kara did a book called Cobalt Red. And it really blew my mind when it came to what cobalt mining looks like and the detriment that these children go through to mine cobalt.
I mean, I think there's something estimated like 40,000 children in the DRC that are just basically slaves mining cobalt so we can play with our phones. Holy crap.
Where is that? The Democratic Republic of the Congo. So it's Africa, sub-Saharan Africa, just off the coast, right in like the middle.
Yeah. So what is cobalt needed for in the phones? So cobalt is part of the batteries.
It's part of the metal of the battery that allow for the transmission of the electricity. Jeez.
I wonder if they'll find an alternative to that. They are, and we're actually looking at some as well.
I mean, Eden is going to be rolling out other technologies other than our Eden Energy Systems, and one of the things that we're looking at is a graphene-based battery, right? So a carbon-based battery that'll have removable anodes and cathodes that once you're finished with the battery, you can the metal components out you can drop the battery right into the system and completely recycle that'd be great because i don't want to buy stuff that child you know workers are i mean it's hard these days a lot of stuff not even just my phones right our clothes i mean i mean we look at where we've outsourced a lot of our our factories too and they really don't have great child labor laws and you look at China where they're building the iPhones I mean some of these factories put up nets around the factories to prevent people from committing suicide because that's how bad it is so it's one of those things where we got to get back to understanding that corporate giants shouldn't be making the profit margins that they are because people need to be able to live as well right I mean at the end of the day i think a lot of people have said it i've heard i think some of the people on your podcast say but a lot of people are modern day slaves they just don't realize it because they're getting paid but they're getting paid just enough to survive just over broke job yeah right acronym yeah i try to buy locally as much as i can i go to farmers markets and i try to buy from local mom and pops and that's the best way to do it because you're not only supporting local families and local communities but you're probably also getting food that's not going to hurt you oh yeah you're good that's a whole nother podcast that's a whole different animal yeah um man i got to talk about like you and your dad's relationship like have you always worked together yeah um so from uh when you're a young kid and you have a very entrepreneurial successful father um who you firmly believe in it's very easy to want to follow in his footsteps my father's the founding evp of ticket master and did a lot of really cool things and has some classified patents which led him into having some really cool uh friends so to speak right i mean I grew up having directors of three letter agencies at my house every other weekend and things like that so it was a really amazing place to grow up but I was that inquisitive kid who was always around always asking questions and that's why I think I consider myself the most blessed scientist and entrepreneur on the planet just because because the experiences I got to have growing up, being surrounded by heads of state and going to all these amazing places. Because when you're an entrepreneur and you're doing something big, one of the lines they say is, act like you've been there before, right? And for me, it's I don't have to because I have been there before.
I've been in a lot of these situations as a kid. kid I mean I remember touring the Oval Office at like nine years old because my father was working with the government right I mean we were doing projects with the DOD and DOE in the early days and DARPA and all these cool things so it's a it's been a blessing to be able to to work with my father because I mean a lot of people who have the scientists for a father say their father's one of the smartest men they know and i don't think my

father's one of the smartest men i know i know he's probably one of the smartest men on the planet

um so it's a lot to live up to and it's not that it hasn't always been the uh

easiest career path because you have a father who's done as much as he has

he demands a lot right and uh right out of college I mean I had to jump all in I mean I basically stopped having a social life the day I graduated college and uh it's just been all all science and advancing making the world a better place ever since wow the stuff is really going to change the world I think dude I you know um a lot of people have asked me why have I continued to push this with all the setbacks and the hurdles and everything that we've been through over the last 30 years and it's because i know what this technology can do for the world um in 1996 before my father set down this path uh we were in mexico and we saw a mayan shaman and the mayan shaman said to my father he's going to create something to clean up the world

and about a year later he was in Sedona meeting with the scientists working on thermal depolymerization which is one of the reaction steps in our process and that's how all this was born so it's a it's a really amazing opportunity to be able to bring something so special to the world and leave leave a legacy behind i mean yeah they call my father god's janitor and now uh i call myself earth's janitor and uh i need to make sure that this technology gets to the world because the world so desperately needs it i love that that's beautiful man wow my shaman yeah i never knew those existed yeah he's a six foot five irish guy who considers himself mayan he could read the hieroglyphics uh wears a boar tooth carving of kukulkan who is uh the mayan main the main god of the mayans the feathered serpent god the aztecs called him quetzalcoatl um but yeah we've spent a lot of time uh in the yucatech uh tulum especially i mean my family's been going to tulum since the late 80s it was the scientific capital really of the mayas where the the medicine men and the shamans lived so we spent a lot of time in tulum my sister about a decade ago did a documentary called the dark side of tulum so the mayans uh really have a major role in what we're doing because they were in the original environmentalists right they the Yucatech is as fruitful as it is because the Mayans cultivated

food forests all over the Yucatech and now it just grows naturally so it's

really it's an amazing place and the jungle is home which is why I call Miami

home only place in the continent the US I can get the jungle yeah I love that you

mentioned hurdles earlier what were the biggest setbacks and hurdles throughout

this 30-year journey sure so Eden is actually the third company that we're

Thank you. place in the continent of the U.S.
I can get the jungle. Yeah, I love that.
You mentioned hurdles earlier. What were the biggest setbacks and hurdles throughout this 30-year journey? Sure.
So Eden is actually the third company that we're going to be building to roll this out. The first company was Changing World Technologies, did a lot of really great stuff, tried to go public in 2008, and the IPO released the day before the market crashed.
Bad timing. Yeah, that was just one of those things where you're just like, dang.
But we restructured, we reorganized. Then in 2012, saw the biofuel market collapse and that led to some hurdles with the board.
And we had ended up having with everything that went on, we had to walk away from our own business. But thankfully my father owned the technology outright.
So we got all the rights to the technology back. I mentioned the Mayans.
The same day, a group out of Turkey, the same day we got all the rights back, which was actually my father's birthday in 2013, we got all the rights back. This group called us, a company called Maya.
So we were like, oh, that's got to be fate. We did some research together.
And after the research at Lehigh University, they were all in. We formed a worldwide joint venture.
I moved to Istanbul. I lived there about five years.
That's where I met Gozde, who's here in the room with us. She's our co-founder at Eden and also my wife.
And I spent five years living over there, advancing the technology even further. We built a small version of what we call version two of the technology to demonstrate that we can process everything at once in an energy efficient way.
We proved that out. We designed a 1,500 ton per day system for the city of Istanbul.
We finished that design in May of 2016. And then in July of 2016, there was a failed coup d'etat.
And the country has seen extreme economic turmoil ever since. By 2008, pretty much everything was mothballed.
I moved back to the U.S. with Go's Day.
I got involved in a stem cell startup, helped build that company, and then the pandemic kind of put things in a different perspective for me. I saw how really evil the biomedical industry was and realized that it was not a career path for me.
I needed to do something different. So around April of 2021, I got connected to a guy starting a regenerative agriculture company.
And I thought it was great, jumped all in. Gozde joined a couple days after I did, and I was one of the founding partners.
We built that company for about a year and a half. And then an opportunity arose for me to start fresh, brand new, with everything that I had learned from my family's tech.
I started a new company with a new business model. And I started putting together the pieces.
I called John Shaw, who was basically with my father since 2002 as one of our main guys. He ran and basically built and rebuilt our large facility that we built.
We built a 250 ton per day in 2002 to process butterball turkey waste, right? The blood, the guts, the bones, the feathers, things like that. The turkey slaughter.
And I called him and I didn't even get a chance to actually ask him to come back in. He kind of just went, well, where do you want me? And from that moment, we just kept pushing.
About six months later, I got introduced to one of our other partners, Joe Schopp, and we just kept running and gunning. And now we're here and we're ready to start building and manufacturing.
We've got manufacturing all teed up, ready to go. We've got all of our system designs ready to rock and roll.
And we just hired back as our chief technology officer, Sean Jones, who was one of my father's main engineers for over a decade.

So I get to bring in now an engineer as my CTO who could teach me the engineering on the system. Let's go.
Everything comes back full circle.

Everything comes back full circle.

So Eden is ready to really make a significant difference in this world.

And we've got so much going on. I mean, right now I'm up at 5 o'clock most days, and I go to bed around 10.
Jeez. And there really is no time where I'm not working.
And thankfully, my wife is also one of the partners. So if I'm working at 8 o'clock at night, she's not yelling at me because chances are she's in the meeting with me.
I love that. Yeah, you were in Austin for 10 days straight.
Ian loved your show ian carroll yeah yeah he looked like he was having a blast yeah you know i've been a big fan

of ian's for for over a year now i found him randomly about a year year ago uh and i just love how he just lays out everything as facts just he puts everything out there and allows you to formulate your own opinion based on what he does and that's what i think more news people need to do but yeah I saw Ian walk in I'm like that's Ian Carroll so it was pretty cool we had a really nice drop in and I'm looking forward to connecting with I'd love to see someone like him or Tucker cover the energy crisis yeah and and you know at the end of the day that's really the only issue that is out there energy and waste right a lot of people people talk about water there's no water crisis the world is 70 water it's an energy crisis because if energy was cheap and abundant desalinization would be easy but desalinization right now is expensive because energy is expensive especially in places where they need desalinization like cali where it's over 33 cents a kilowatt there yeah texas it's like 12 cents a kilowatt wow so in california where they really need water right um if the energy prices were lower they wouldn't really need water because you would just set up desalinization plants on the coast and pump it into the inland right it's just it's a fortune because of of the uh the high energy costs so we need to work on getting that down over there they have fires every year, so that's not a problem that's going to go away anytime soon. And there's a lot of reasons for the fires.
I mean, California historically was not as wet as it is, right? If you look back at the historical record, California was always an arid climate. Only in the last couple hundred years has it really seen the rainfall that it has been getting.
So it's just going back to more of the historical trends. But California also has very strict laws in the books about forest management.
And if you don't go in and clean up those forests, then you get all these brush fires that most of the time are started by people. The vast majority of these fires are not naturally occurring.
It's somebody at a campfire or somebody throwing something out of their car or intentionally lighting right a lot of fires are intentionally lit um maybe they're trying to clear brush and it just got out of control or whatever it may be but yeah california has definitely got some hurdles and um if they had cheaper energy they'd be able to get significant water to battle a lot of these fires but energy in california is the highest in the continental u.s which is why it's one of our prime targets for our systems man it's high here too my bill be going up every single month it's crazy i don't even use that much energy but it's it's probably doubled since i moved here four years ago my energy bill yeah yeah it's that significant yeah but vegas is growing like crazy right now right yeah everyone from cali is leaving not enough houses here, actually. Yeah.
Yeah. Crazy.
I don't know how you guys live in the desert. I can't be here full time.
I got to travel. Yeah.
You know, I like living at different spots every few months. That's my end goal.
Where would you be? Whoa, that's tough. Would I already have enough money to just do whatever? Yeah.
Probably not in a city then. Because city, I feel like you live there to just grind and hustle and make your bag.
And then I'd want to ideally move out, have like acres of land, tons of animals on a farm somewhere. Nice.
You know, what about you? Right now I'm looking at finding some land in Homestead, Florida, which is basically the southernmost point. And I do want to set up a homestead there.
But I'll probably be south of Miami for the foreseeable future I mean I'm not too worried about hurricanes you build a house that can withstand them and hurricanes I mean you hear a lot of talk about hurricanes getting more and more and worse and worse but again if you analyze the real historical data they're actually not yeah they're the the prevalence is actually very consistent um and the major storms right

category three plus hasn't has seen no real increase um so there's a lot of information

that i see especially on like twitter and instagram where i see these scientists talking

about things like oh we're seeing more fires now than ever in human history and you if you expand

the graphs they share a graph that shows from like 1940 to now. And if you expand it to the 1930s, the graph goes crazy up high.
And right now it's crazy low. Because in the 1930s, you saw more acreage burn than I think in the last 20 years combined or something like that.
But they cut that part out. Yeah, they cut that part out.
It's the same with CO2, right? You have all these guys talking about this co2 that the world can't handle over 420 parts per million if you look back at the historical record co2 was always higher it was over a thousand for most of the planet's history right and life thrived co2 is is the most important gas for fertilizer for plant growth and yes it definitely has some warming effect but co2 is the gas of life um i was talking with a scientist uh probably about 10 15 years ago one of my father's um mentors right this is when i talk scientists i mean this is like head office and he was explaining to me that if it were not for the industrial revolution where we started burning exorbitant amounts of hydrocarbons and releasing that excess CO2 into the atmosphere there's a very high likelihood that the CO2 levels would have dropped below the threshold of 150 ppm to support plant life and that would have happened all plant life on earth would have died out which means everything would have died holy crap right it would have been a mass extinction like we can't even imagine because in prior to the industrial revolution co2 was at 180 parts per million and dropping since then we're up to about 420 but the the number like the uh concentration that they put in industrial greenhouses is over a thousand the iss is is at 5,000, right? The International Space Station. Submarines, nuclear subs are 3,000 to 5,000 ppm, right? So if human beings can't survive over 420, why do we have these man-made structures at such high levels? Why are greenhouses at such high levels? And the CO2 narrative just doesn't make sense to me, especially as someone who's an expert in carbon, right? Our technology is a carbon conversion technology.
Now, when I say that, people are like, oh, what are you, a climate denier? I'm like, no, obviously the climate has major issues. The world is sick.
Otherwise, I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing. We're trying to restore Eden.
That's why it's our name. But I don't think it's CO2.
I think it's all the hundreds of millions of tons of chemicals we spray in the land each year. It's all the plastics that are polluting all of our land.
It's all the incineration and all this toxic vapors that we're emitting into the atmosphere that are changing all the natural constructs, right? We're destroying our world with pollution, and then we're blaming the gas of life on any environmental degradation that we see, and it just doesn't make sense um but again i mean the world is sick we have a lot of work that has to get done um but if it's the main the main concern is pollution now you actually have a viable solution to it because we can take everything from plastics to food waste even fracking water right the contaminated hydrocarbon water we can purify it back into a clean source do you think there should be more regulation around pollution you know regulation is one of those tricky ones that will often backfire right they put in regulations and then businesses just look at it as a hurdle and they completely avoid doing anything in that world right and it could it can hurt industry um i think the way that you really get things to change is you have to give people a reason to want to be better right um and because of how efficient our systems are they're massive profit generators um I mean if you have high waste disposal costs and high energy costs i mean you can be seeing models that have two three hundred percent irr and we're afraid to show those clients right that's insane if i tell a client in some of these models are insane we built out a um a 1500 ton per day model for an island yeah um and islands are some of the best uh targets because they have nowhere to get the waste and energies are through the roof we built out this 1500 ton per day model for the island that's a 200 million dollar system the electricity cost was over 40 cents a kilowatt and they were paying over 75 dollars a ton for waste disposal the model on that system without credits and incentives was like 220 irr meaning that in year one they're bringing in almost 400 million in profit without credits incentives just on that facility because they're taking their stored waste right and turning it into clean energy and that's one of the things we look forward to changing. Waste is a human construct, right? Waste is, it's like the definition of a weed.
What's the definition of a weed? A plant out of place, right? Waste is something that we can't currently use in its current form. But if you have a whole ton of plastic and someone's looking at that, oh, that's going to pollute the environment.
I look at it and say, oh oh that's a crap ton of energy that we can just turn into fuels to make clean energy from right so it's really all perspective so waste is one of these human constructs that we look forward to changing because waste is no longer waste but a commodity that can be traded as its energy wow which is huge because there's so much waste just sitting everywhere right it's it's the biggest industry in the world. Is it? Because every single industry has waste.
That's true, yeah. Oh, that's a super good point.
Every single industry, whether it's the oil, manufacturing, electronic goods, right? We've done a study. I shouldn't say we.
My father, in the early days, when I was only about 14 years old, did a study with Dell, where we just took whole computers and we processed them, able to extract all the precious metals and everything and now we're looking at these really amazing new technologies that are able to not only separate out those metals but or not only extract those metals but separate them by their components so there's a lot of amazing things coming down the pipeline especially for e-waste because our phones have gold and silver and all these other precious metals and where if you can capture it that's now a secondary waste stream that these waste producers processing e-waste can capture right they don't have to take apart the motherboard and extract them by hand they just throw the whole phone in grind it up this machine is going to extract all those metals and then the rest of the plastics and everything else go get converted into energy that's big time yeah because there's gold and silver in these devices right yeah wow this is really really good technology man yeah i'm impressed i can't wait to see this more mainstream it's been a journey and uh that's why we never gave up on it um we've got a really strong team right now um and it's just getting stronger by the day and we're going to start doing some really active recruiting to bring on some really, really big players. We're going to look for a top tier CFO and make sure that we have all of our financials in order because we are going to look to tokenize these systems as far as their energy and CO2 credits.
And there's going to be massive plays at hand in the crypto world. We're working with a tier one platform that is getting ready to launch called ZDKL.
And we're doing a lot of really cool stuff. I love it, man.
Any other partnerships? Yeah, there's actually a lot of things transpiring. I mean, like I said, I'm probably pulling a 12 to 14 hour day every single day.
So you're just, you're kind of constantly grinding. We're talking with some partnerships with a couple different states, a couple different countries, looking to scale manufacturing in parts of South America, parts of Africa, parts of Indonesia.
So really just looking to get this technology to the world. And we are going to be reaching out to some of the big corporate giants like Coca-Cola and things like that.
I mean, a lot of people don't know, but Coca-Cola is the number one plastic polluter in the world. And what they're sitting on is just a vast, untapped amount of energy that they could probably use to power their facilities completely and then some, right? Yeah, plastic bottle companies would be good.
What about glass? Does it process glass? Well, glass is silica-based, right? So a lot of people ask, well, what can you guys process? And it's much easier for me to tell you what we can't process, right? And that's metal, rocks, and glass. Got it.
And it's not that they can't go through the system. They can absolutely go through, but they don't convert in anything.
So they just end up in your biochar, and they lower the quality of your biochar. So we try to extract them out.
The quality of the biochar is based on the purity of the carbon, right? So biochar technically is 75% to 95% carbon, right? Anything lower is basically just waste, and anything over 95% gets that carbon black specification, right, where you get your water filter grade carbon. But we generally produce a carbon about 85% purity.
but if you start throwing in a lot of glass into there or metal and things like that then your purity levels can drop someone else will have to solve the heavy metal issue not you no we we did solve the heavy metal issue so that is actually one of the main components of the first three stages so we're an eight stage process raw material preparation

thermal depolymerization hydrolysis separations thermal cracking concentration polishing and

power generation in stage three hydrolysis you go water under pressure right we create free hydrogen what happens is those uh metal those heavy metals they become water soluble oxidized so they extract from whatever component they're in, and they end up in the water phase, and they're oxidized, naturally-occurring form. So they're no longer in this radical reactive form because, let's remember, lead, mercury, all these heavy metals, they're naturally-occurring constructs, but it's when we process them and we turn them into their unnatural forms that they really become dangerous well but mercury exists in nature lead exists in nature right these are all naturally occurring what we do is we're able to actually revert them back into their natural form their oxidized form and we're able to uh literally discharge them directly to the land without worry about them leaching nice we did that research uh with jefferson tester at mit about 20 years ago uh and it was a it was one of those happy accidents we were processing coal uh to seeing if we can upgrade coal and after they tested the coal they were like where'd the mercury go and uh we tested the water and we found oxidized mercury in the water damn so it was one of those really cool things so the hydrolysis is actually where a lot of the magic happens you oxidize and neutralize heavy metals you break down pathogens um so we did a study uh with the dod in the early days in new york state department of health where we uh ran tests on basilium strep themopolis and anthra.
And it's the only technology to ever receive 100% pathogen instruction on those pathogens. Wow.
So that was right as the whole Anthrax scare was happening. And with our military connections, they wanted to see and make sure if there really was like a major attack and they had to dispose of this.
They had a solution. And they did, right? We were the solution.
We had a small facility operating on the Philadelphia Naval Yard yard so we had everything all set and ready to go in case of a major emergency but yeah we uh we have 100 pathogen destruction so we're able to do medical and infectious waste no problem we even had a permit in new york state for over 20 years to process medical and infectious waste um so yeah i mean what we're able to do it's it's not a waste to energy technology it is a complete waste reclamation technology we're able to take all the compounds and everything that's in the waste and capture it in a form that's a viable product right there's no waste and there's no byproducts we create regenerative fuel oil which is our crude oil regenerative natural gas biochar a liquid fertilizer if you're processing like food waste and organics right if you have nitrogen or phosphorus or potassium present your waste you're able to capture that fertilizer and then water right so we're a net water producer so if you think of garbage garbage is about 50 to 60 percent water most people don't think about that it's got a lot of moisture in it right so if you have a ton of waste you have a thousand pounds of water in there which is about 200 gallons right it's about 8.4 pounds per gallon so all that water usually just evaporates and goes away now you're able to capture it and we're working with this really cool water filtering technology that is able to capture and make drinkable 98 of your stream right an ro system is like 10 to 20 percent if you're lucky right so if you have 100 gallons you can get 10 to 20 gallons of usable water wow this company is claiming 98 gallons of usable water holy crap and it's so from trash well from from wastewater right They're a really cool wastewater technology.

We actually met them when we met you at CES about two months ago.

We got introduced to them.

They were presenting here.

They're called Water, but it's spelled with two Vs.

Very, very cool company.

Interesting.

But, yeah, we're looking to take their technology as an add-on to our systems.

So now a community, right, let's say one of these off-grid communities with 1,000 homes, they can put a system in, take all that extra water and convert it to drinking water. I'd rather have that than municipal tap water.
Yeah. That's with fluoride and who knows what else.
Well, the worst in the tap water, I mean, the fluoride's obviously bad. And thankfully, it looks like Bobby's going to put in some legislation to get rid of that across the United States.
But it's really the birth control. Yeah, I heard that.
I mean, the birth control in the water is really wrecking havoc on men. And I'm a biologist by trade.
That's what I study, right? And you look at what's going on with our fish, like the largemouth bass is having major reproductive issues because you test our rivers and lakes and there's fake estrogen floating around in rivers and lakes because it's such a small molecule that it gets past the weight water treatment facility dang and i mean you have so many women around the country who are on birth control who actually pee it out right and then it ends up in the wastewater treatment plants and and it ends up in nature and uh that's that's one of the reasons why i mean my testosterone levels I saw my levels and I'm looking at me i'm 36 year old male i'm a former high level athlete and i'm looking at it my levels are sub 400 and i'm like oh my gosh like how did this happen to me and uh i mean i look at my lifestyle where i sit in front of a computer for hours and hours and every day on end i haven't been in the gym as much as i should be um and it makes sense it's all the poisons in the food I mean you go out I mean I drink and eat very clean at home yeah but I'm not one of these people that isn't gonna go out to a restaurant you order a water at a restaurant unless you get the bottled water you're just getting municipal poison and you're showering in it you know you're bathing in it going and pool. Chlorine is a killer.
I stopped going in pools unless they're saltwater pools. That's very smart.
That was one of the things I always worried about. Swimmers like Michael Phelps.
What is that long-term chlorine exposure going to have? Because you're inhaling it. Bad.
I've seen videos where it literally enters your bloodstream as soon as you get in the water. Yep.
There's a I think you actually had him on your show Dr. Papa.
Yeah. Papa.
He had a really great video that showed how quickly chlorine absorbs into your skin. Yeah.
And like he just filled up a glass of drinking water, tested it for the chlorine. It turned in and then he put his fingers in for like 30 seconds and pulled it out and there was no chlorine in the water yeah it's insane that's disturbing that's why i stopped going in steam rooms too yeah because they use tap water so you're just inhaling birth control and fluoride and whatever i used to feel worse after steam rooms than going in oh it makes sense i mean it's uh that's there's so many poisons all around us constantly um and then we wonder why we're sick, we're depressed, because we've really just thrown our natural systems a wrench every five minutes.
And especially with the lifestyles that a lot of people live today. I mean, marijuana is not what it was 40 years ago.
I mean, it's a heavy narcotic at this point. I get anxiety on it now.
Yep. And I mean, I still partake from time to time but uh alcohol is another big one right i mean alcohol i stopped drinking about two a little over two years ago um because just just for work right i'll still toast like i'll have a glass of champagne when we're doing a nice toast and have a couple sips but i stopped socially drinking and the advancement i have seen in my thinking over the last two years after giving up alcohol has been it's i've advanced more in my scientific thinking the last two years than i did in the previous 33 years holy crap um just the the immense ability for my brain to start putting things together when i stop poisoning it is immense right and alcohol basically opens up the pores in your brain and allows just things to crack across the blood-brain barrier yeah I mean it really is one of those things where you wonder why it's uh legal when things like marijuana were illegal and I mean you look at the fluoride in the water you look at all these other chemicals that we've been allowed to consume while other countries aren't and really makes you question things it does

and a lot of people point you like your conspiracy theorists when you question

things but when you're a scientist you understand things at certain levels

you're like oh that's not conspiracy that's there's something major there's

facts and data behind it yeah it's not like it's a random saying you know yeah

exactly Jonathan it's been awesome man where can people find you and find to

eat an energy and potentially work with you yeah so so we're pretty active on

I'm not sure. Yeah.
It's not like it's a random saying, you know? Yeah, exactly. Jonathan, it's been awesome, man.
Where can people find you and find Eden Energy and potentially work with you? Yeah, so we're pretty active on Instagram and LinkedIn. You can find me personally at JonathanAppel13 on both Instagram and LinkedIn.
On Instagram, we're EdenEnergy.co. That's the same as our website.
And on X, we're EdenEnergyX. But that's really where we're active right now.
We are going to be using an app called Own, which you've had some of those guys on here. We're very good friends with those guys.
And I believe our marketing team is also going to be using TikTok here a little bit. And I think they're also on YouTube.
Perfect. But our marketing team does some really great work, puts out some really great content.
And I'm going to be a little bit more active in X over the coming months, really trying to get Eden's name out there,

but also explain things from the scientific perspective. I've been so blessed to have the opportunity to learn.
A lot of people don't have the opportunities I've had. I'm very thankful

and fortunate. I'm looking forward to getting back.
Can't wait to see you guys everywhere.

Thanks for coming out, man. Thanks for having me.
Check them out, guys, and I'll see you next time.