Irfan Peci: Caught Between Two Worlds: A Spy’s Dangerous Mission | DSH #1489

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Speaker 2 Lucky. I mean, it was not easy.
I was

Speaker 2 as a terrorist, as a member of a terrorist organization. I was 23, sometimes 24 hours alone in isolation.
Wow. And it was really hard with 19 years.

Speaker 2 I was 19 at that time in a high-security prison, and I was there for one year. Jeez.
Alone.

Speaker 1 Okay, guys, Student Action Summit, last interview of the trip. We got Irfan, one of the craziest stories I've ever heard.
Thanks for coming on, man.

Speaker 2 Thank you.

Speaker 1 Could you please explain your story for people that don't know who you are and what you went through?

Speaker 2 Yeah, my name is Irfan. I'm 36 and born in Serbia, grew up in Germany.

Speaker 2 And yeah, the crazy on my story is that I was

Speaker 2 a radical Muslim and today I'm a Christian. And yeah, how it starts.
I grew up like a normal, normal kid. And then with 14, 15, I was interested in religion and searching for truth.
And because

Speaker 2 I was a born Muslim, I started to read the Quran and everything.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 then I met some radical Muslims and they saw that

Speaker 2 I'm interested in religion. And then they explain me first the religion and

Speaker 2 normal stuff like how to pray how to fast and these things and then later it starts with politics and jihad to fight

Speaker 2 holy war is is a duty for every muslim and at that time um to be honest i like it and i don't have a bad intention to be an evil person or something but i want to be a good muslim right and that's why i was not thinking is it good or bad i was only interested,

Speaker 2 is that my duty as a Muslim? Did I have to do that as a Muslim? Then I will do it. And if it means that I have to kill non-believers or go to war, I will go to war.

Speaker 2 And that was my intention. And thank God I was arrested before that.
That means before. How did you get arrested?

Speaker 1 They find you.

Speaker 2 They find me because I do a lot of propaganda on the internet and

Speaker 2 through my IP address. I don't know exactly how, but.
Was this in Germany? Yeah, it was in Germany. They observed me for one year or something.

Speaker 2 The German, like FBI,

Speaker 2 they have me on their list. And my intention was to go to Afghanistan to

Speaker 2 fight in jihad.

Speaker 2 And I was with a group of 10, 15 people.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I do a lot of propaganda, radical propaganda. And

Speaker 2 when they see that I want to go to war, they arrest me before.

Speaker 2 And thank God, because that was really good.

Speaker 1 That might have saved your life.

Speaker 2 That saved my life because all the other guys,

Speaker 2 from 15 people,

Speaker 2 13 are dead. Wow.
Yeah. Through

Speaker 2 most of them through CIA drone attacks. Holy crap.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 one or two comes back and they were, I don't know, eight, nine years in prison. Jeez.
And I can be really lucky. I mean, it was not easy.
I was

Speaker 2 in jail like an as a as a terrorist, as a member of a terrorist organization. I was 23, sometimes 24 hours alone in isolation.
Wow. And it was really hard with 19 years.

Speaker 2 I was 19 at that time in a high security prison in

Speaker 2 southern Germany.

Speaker 2 And I was there for one year. Jeez.
Alone. In isolation, isolation, totally alone.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 when I look back, it was really good because,

Speaker 2 yeah, if not, if they would not arrest me, I would go with the other guys and then I will be dead and I will be killed or

Speaker 2 I would kill other people. And that's why

Speaker 2 I'm lucky and happy that they arrest me before. Right.

Speaker 1 And then they arrested you and then they ended up recruiting you, right?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 that was after jail i was released after one year

Speaker 2 and uh they asked me uh or before i was when i was in jail uh i change i start to to to think critical of everything right uh is that what god wants from me to kill people to go to war and everything

Speaker 2 and uh because i was alone and i started to to to to think a lot and to read books and everything and uh then something

Speaker 2 in my mind changed. And then I say in jail, it was already in jail.
After six months in isolation, I say,

Speaker 2 I don't want that anymore. When they release me, I will start a new life, start work.

Speaker 2 I want to have a family, kids, wife, totally

Speaker 2 regularly normal life. And then I was released after one year.

Speaker 2 And then they came,

Speaker 2 the German intelligence uh came to me and they asked me what are your plans what you want to do i say i want a normal life i i you know i'm not a danger anymore i'm done with it and they say look that's that's good that's good but why you don't start to work for us because you know a lot of dangerous guys and you're very very good connected in whole europe right because i'm originally from the balkans and um i know a lot of radical people there, a lot of radical networks in Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Balkans.

Speaker 2 And they offer me to work for them.

Speaker 2 And I think about that and I did it on the end because I feel like responsible because

Speaker 2 I radicalized other people, other young Muslims. And I feel like that's yeah, I feel kind of guilty.
Feel guilty. Yeah, guilty and responsible.

Speaker 2 And I saw that like an opportunity to do something good, to do something good for Germany, for the people, for the security, because Germany gave us all.

Speaker 2 We go to Germany when the Balkan War started, 91. And then we flew to Germany as refugees.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I have a beautiful life. I had a beautiful life there.
And Germany gave us everything.

Speaker 1 All right, guys. Sean Kelly here, host of the Digital Social Hour podcast.
Just filmed 33 amazing episodes at Student Action Summit.

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Speaker 2 And I was, uh,

Speaker 2 that was one of the reasons why I said I'm so unthankful,

Speaker 2 the country that gives us everything. And I, on the end, I was radicalized and wanted to harm the country and harm the people.

Speaker 2 And then I see that as an opportunity to give something back, to do something good. And then I agreed.
And they sent me to Berlin because Berlin was the hotspot of jihadis, of radical Islamists. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And then I go back

Speaker 2 instead of

Speaker 2 to step out, to say, look, I'm done, I go back

Speaker 2 as something like an undercover agent. And then I was among them collecting information.
And

Speaker 2 we did a lot of good,

Speaker 2 important things. For example,

Speaker 2 I was able to prevent one terrorist attack. Wow.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Then... Where was Art Ataka? Yeah, it was

Speaker 2 a young Turkish guy. He's dead.
He was in prison after that and then goes to Syria,

Speaker 2 fight in jihad, and then he died in

Speaker 2 fighting Assad's regime.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 he was in contact with a high-ranking terrorist in Afghanistan. And

Speaker 2 he recruit him and say, look. we want to do a terrorist attack in Berlin.

Speaker 2 And he was thinking that I will help him. And I was the wrong guy he trusted.
And he trusted me and said, look, I get an order from this guy in Afghanistan.

Speaker 2 And he says, you can come to Afghanistan, but you will be a normal soldier.

Speaker 2 If you want to do a good thing, an important thing,

Speaker 2 then don't come to Afghanistan.

Speaker 2 You can kill a lot, lot more. unbelievers in Berlin if you do a terrorist attack than here.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 yeah. And then

Speaker 2 I was working with my intelligence. I had like an intelligence officer and I told him everything.

Speaker 2 And then we make a plan when we, how and when we will arrest him, because that's the difficult thing that he doesn't realize that the information comes from me. Right.

Speaker 2 And that's really complicated and difficult to use this information, but in the same time to protect me as an informant.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and the other things was

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Speaker 2 For example,

Speaker 2 I saw this guy, he's preparing, he wants to go to Afghanistan, he's collecting money, he's shaving his beard,

Speaker 2 drinking alcohol, going to clubs so that the police and intelligence think that he's not radical anymore. And

Speaker 2 I

Speaker 2 identify such people people and say, look, this guy, I'm pretty sure he wants to go. And then we make a plan to take his passport, to arrest him because of other things,

Speaker 2 so that he's not able to go and to kill American soldiers because, you know, Americans,

Speaker 2 they were the enemy number one.

Speaker 2 I mean, yeah, every unbeliever is an enemy, but

Speaker 2 they were

Speaker 2 very motivated to, especially to kill American soldiers and generally NATO soldiers.

Speaker 2 And that was the other

Speaker 2 thing, a lot of what we do. And I think we prevent around

Speaker 2 20, 25 people, radical Islamists to go to war and to kill people. Wow.
And in this time, I saw how important that is, what I'm doing.

Speaker 1 Well done.

Speaker 2 So what years were you part of al-Qaeda?

Speaker 1 Five years, you said?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I was radicalized with 16, and then I was like till 19, this three, four years, I was part of

Speaker 2 radical Islamist networks, Al-Qaeda, and others. And then I was arrested, and then I started to work for intelligence.

Speaker 1 How long have you are you still with the intelligence now or did you?

Speaker 2 No, no, I'm not with them anymore. I work for them

Speaker 2 around two years. Okay.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 yeah, on the end, I have a burnout because it was 24 hours stressful. It was

Speaker 2 because I was all the time in danger. I have to be careful what I'm saying.
And I know if they

Speaker 2 know who I am,

Speaker 2 what I do,

Speaker 2 if this will be revealed, then I'm done. You're dead.
They will kill me. Did that almost happen to you? There were two, three situations.
It was very, very close. Wow.

Speaker 2 For example, I can give you one story.

Speaker 2 They say a Tunisian guy, they say he's very interested and we need information. We need some pictures, what he has, what we think that he has on his laptop.

Speaker 2 You need to find a way. to get this pictures to get this data from his laptop.
And I was thinking how I can do that.

Speaker 2 He will not give me his laptop and say here here here here's my laptop and then i was visiting him and then i say look i need some stuff from the internet uh i have my stick with me can i use only quick two minutes can i use your laptop yeah i need something and he said yeah sure you can And then he was sitting in front of me like you.

Speaker 2 And I had his laptop and I was sitting with him smiling,

Speaker 2 talking. And I take all the data what I can from his laptop.
And he was in front of me. And

Speaker 2 I say, and then I mean, I was not sure, is that enough, but I take so much I can. And then I give him the laptop back and I was going home and put the stick on my laptop looking, what is that?

Speaker 2 Okay, I think I have the pictures. And then on the same day, on the evening, my laptop was open.
You saw all the pictures. And then after two, three hours, somebody is knocking on my door.

Speaker 2 And I was thinking it's the neighbor or somebody. And then I open the door and then he stands in front of me with four other guys.
No way.

Speaker 2 And most of them had weapons like knives or something with them.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I was totally surprised, surprised, because I was thinking it's a neighbor or somebody.

Speaker 2 And then they're coming in and I forget that my laptop is open with all the information with his, with the pictures and everything.

Speaker 2 And then they coming, they coming in my living room, and I have a small apartment at that time. And then I saw

Speaker 2 the desk with my laptop open. And then I'm going there,

Speaker 2 closely quick, close the laptop. And

Speaker 2 it was coincidence that they came

Speaker 2 and closing my laptop. And I was dying in this moment.

Speaker 2 I was really dying. You have to be a very, very...

Speaker 1 I hope you guys are enjoying the show. Please don't forget to like and subscribe.

Speaker 2 it helps the show a lot with the algorithm thank you a good actor yeah your heart was probably racing my heart was racing i mean you didn't saw that but i i think they did i didn't saw uh they didn't uh recognize that but i was dying i was dying because if they saw that everything would be clear why should i take private pictures and data from his laptop yeah you can't talk your way they would be 100 sure and there was i mean i can't defend myself but there were four or five guys with knives and everything They would, they would kill me.

Speaker 1 Damn, that's crazy, man. They need to make a movie from your life.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I

Speaker 2 have an offer to make a movie, and I think that would be a good movie. Yeah, but you know, in this times, it's very important.
Uh, it's very difficult to make such a movie because

Speaker 2 yeah, it's the expensive. And today, I'm more a conservative, right-wing guy.
Right. Germany is very leftist.
Oh, are they? Uh, yeah, and this cultural

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Speaker 2 In this area, you only have or 90% are leftists, and they don't like me. But I hope someday

Speaker 2 maybe America will see that and can make a Hollywood movie or something.

Speaker 2 I think it will be a great movie. It will be.

Speaker 1 Where can people follow you and support you, man?

Speaker 2 I have a YouTube channel. My name is Irfan Petsy.
I have a YouTube channel. 90% of my stuff is in German, but you have this, you can activate this English subtitles.
And

Speaker 2 I have some live streams with Apple State Prophet. I won in English.
And in future, I will do more. I think I will do more

Speaker 2 content on English.

Speaker 2 I have to

Speaker 2 exercise a little bit so that my English is a little bit better. Yeah.
And so that I can do live streams on English. But yeah, that's my channel.

Speaker 1 Well, thanks for your time, man.

Speaker 2 Thank you. Thank you very much.

Speaker 1 Can't wait to do another interview with you. Thanks for coming.
Check them out, guys.