Alex Monahan: What if placing 8,000 bets a year wasn’t reckless—but calculated? | DSH #1437

It's all crazy, right?

So like NBA, NFL, they got to be rigged.

But from a better's perspective, I don't really care because

if you're not in on the rigging, like it's 50-50 to be for you, against you.

Last year, I think I placed 8,000 total bets.

So like maybe some are rigged against me, some for me.

I have some good beats.

Okay, guys, got Alex from OddsJam here.

We're going to talk about the sports betting and gambling space.

Thanks for coming on today, man.

Of course, I'm pumped.

I'm pumped.

You've got a lot of experience in this space.

You know, you built and sold the company.

How long have you been in this space for?

I guess it depends how you categorize gambling.

Like, I started my career in trading.

I was a poker player for a bit before, like, more recreational.

But Odds Jam, I guess, we started in April of 2021.

Oh, it's pretty recent.

Yeah.

We were acquired three and a half years later.

So pretty recent,

in the industry.

Yeah.

But had been following it for a while, for sure.

Three and a half years to get acquired.

I feel like that is rapid for most companies, right?

Really quick.

Yeah.

I mean, yeah.

It didn't feel that short during some

during some parts of the company, but yeah, it did, it did happen pretty fast.

For those that don't know what OddsJam is, could you briefly explain what that company does?

Yeah,

so we're basically like a Bloomberg terminal for sports betting.

That's kind of the way I think about it.

Like,

you know, when sports betting legalized in the U.S.,

I was living in Pennsylvania, which I think was the second state, like Pennsylvania, New Jersey border.

I think it was the second state to legalize online sports betting.

And, you know, like at the time, I was a trader and I was

super used to like seeing data, right?

Like every single day.

What does everybody have in on Wall Street, a Bloomberg terminal?

So like when I started sports betting, I would say there wasn't that.

There wasn't a lot of good content.

It's a lot of guys being like, oh, Lakers money line, you know, that's a lock, LeBron James, whatever.

There was a lot of content like that, a lot of people selling picks, a lot of handicappers, as they're called, but there wasn't really like a data tool.

And with hundreds of sports books, points bet, FanDuel, I mean, such a long list.

Do you bet on sports?

I don't.

I had a little stint in college where I did FanDuel and I got wrecked.

I was going to say, you're missing out, but now there's hundreds of books, all these new markets.

Like player props used to not be super popular.

Like now people love betting on triple doubles, points, rebounds, steals.

Like you can bet on anything.

Right.

There's even sites like

prediction markets where you can bet on the weather.

You can bet, like, you can literally bet on anything nowadays.

Oh, you could bet on the weather.

Is Elon going to block Trump?

You could, you could bet on that.

Um, on certain sites, which is crazy.

So, like, the point is, is there's a lot more data than just who's winning this game, Lakers or, Thunder or whatever, Pacers or Thunder, probably, probably a little bit better to say.

So yeah, we kind of set out to build like a Bloomberg terminal for sports bettors and also like an API.

So we have other businesses, big bet trackers, stuff like that, media companies who insert widgets into articles kind of based off our data.

So it's very different.

Like, it's a lot of people will be like, oh, you sell picks, right?

And it's like, I mean, I personally, I like to gamble.

I like to bet on sports.

so I bet on bets for sure but like we're not a picks company you know what I mean we're like the data company how many profitable sports betters have you ever met in your life honestly a lot really a lot um

yeah

that's a shocking answer that that that that is I mean I would say most people lose right but it's a fact that sports betting is

like one of probably the only forms of gambling where you can win long term, right?

Roulette, there's no professional roulette players.

Anyone who says they are is like lying, right?

Like red or black, that's that's not a thing.

Um, every time you play roulette, you're just basically losing five percent of your money.

So it's crazy to me when you know I'm standing at the wind right now, people are throwing down a thousand dollars on roulette.

It's like you're basically just burning 50 bucks.

Right.

Every hand you play.

Um, sports betting, you can absolutely win.

You can absolutely get an edge.

Most people don't.

I'm not saying it's easy, it takes a lot of time, but you can.

Like, you've had Elf on the show, who actually is how we got connected.

Who, you know, he like watched a lot of my content.

He's a user of OddsJam, kind of started doing it as a side hustle, right?

I mean, I'm sure he elaborated more on his podcast, but now he's doing all these crazy things and content, making a ton of money sports betting, you know, using OddsJam, you know, crushing it, meeting girls, doing all these crazy things.

So

definitely, even Golden Tate, you know, Golden Tate, football player, NFL,

NFL player, Super Bowl chip.

The Tri-Light from Therasage is no joke.

Medical grade red and near-infrared light with three frequencies per light.

Deep healing, real results, and totally portable.

It's legit.

Photo bio-modulation tech in a flexible on-body panel.

This is the Tri-Light from Therasage and its next-level red light therapy.

It's got 118 high-powered polychromatic lights, each delivering three healing frequencies, red and near-infrared, from 580 to 980 nanometers.

Optimal penetration, enhanced energy, skin rejuvenation, pain relief, better performance, quicker recovery, and so much more.

Therasage has been leading the game for over 25 years and this panel is FDA listed and USB powered.

Ultra soft and flexible and ultra portable.

On-body red light therapy I use daily and I take it everywhere I travel.

This is the Thera 03 Ozone module from Therasage.

It's a portable ozone and negative ion therapy in one.

It boosts oxygen, clears and sanitizes the air, and even helps your mood.

It's a total game changer at home or on the go.

This little device, it's the Thera O3 Ozone Module by Therasage and it's one of my favorite wellness tools.

In the Sana, it boosts ozone absorption through your skin up to 10 times, oxygenating your blood and supporting deep detox.

Outside the sauna, it purifies the air, killing germs, bacteria, viruses, and mold, and it improves mood and sleep.

A negative ion therapy.

It's compact, rechargeable, and perfect for travel, planes, offices, hotel rooms, you name it.

It's like carrying clean energy wherever you go.

This is the Thera H2GO from Therasage, the only bottle with molecular hydrogen structured water and red light in one.

It hydrates, energizes, and detoxes water upgrades.

The Thera H2GO from Therasage isn't just a water bottle.

It's next level hydration.

It infuses your water with molecular hydrogen, one of the most powerful antioxidants out there.

That means less oxidative stress, more energy, and faster recovery.

But here's what makes it stand out.

It's the only bottle that also structures your water and adds red light to supercharge it.

It's sleek, portable, and honestly, I don't go anywhere without it.

So, yeah, yeah, super smart, dude, super sharp, super data-oriented, super mathematical now.

And you know, you're tired from the NFL, won a Super Bowl, had a great career.

Um, yeah, and he, he's like a user of the product, crushing the books, making a lot of money.

So, like,

there's a lot of people who, again, it's not easy.

Most people are really lazy.

So, probably like building a podcast, right?

Like, like anything great in life, like it, it, it's not super easy, but you can make money gambling, right?

It's like proven.

Um,

there's very simple strategies, and honestly, like the strategies that make money sports betting, they're not even that complicated.

I think, um, you know,

probably other guests have talked about this, but like sports betting is kind of a rigged game.

If you go into a casino, uh, they determine your max bet size.

So, like, you take, you know, FanDuel Sportsbook.

FanDuel Sportsbook, you sign up, you have a new account, they'll let you bet a certain amount of money, right?

This isn't the stock market.

It's not super liquid.

You can't bet a billion dollars on, you know, Gilgis Alexander steals, but you can get some money down.

And then they either do two things, right?

If they start to think you're a winning better, sharp better, they cut you down.

Lower, lower, lower your bet size.

If you're a losing better, they increase it.

They make you a VIP.

They send you to games.

Like, so really, there's no way to win forever or make a scalable amount of money, which is why like you don't see

really like hedge funds, right, betting on sports or it's not a big thing because,

you know, the markets, it's not big enough.

You know, I think most people can scrape by if you really put in the work and you understand the strategies, you can make similar to e.l.f.

well into the six figures, but making a million dollars a year sports betting, 2 million, like BS.

And I'm sure, you know, there's a lot of touts, I would say, on the internet who make it seem easy, Vegas Dave, Mozzie VS, who are like, you know, I went into Caesars.

I bet 250 grand on the Bengals to cover.

They covered, you know, I'm him.

Like, that's, that's not like, like, that's why the industry gets, you know, a bad rep.

You know, nobody can bet 250K if you have a pulse.

in general on any sports book in the us right like online sports book that's not a thing so

yeah, but you can definitely make money, right?

It's one of the rare, rare few forms of gambling, I would say, where you can really actually make money and like make a meaningful amount of money.

And there's, you know, there's a reason the company was bought for 160 million.

It's like the data is valuable and, you know,

people make money with the product.

Have you ever seen someone legit that sold picks, though?

For sure.

Really?

For sure.

For sure.

But not most of them.

I mean, just being in the industry, I have met handicappers who quite literally have told me to my face, almost on a, honestly, almost bragging about it, saying I just pick randomly every single NBA game.

And then all I do is, so that's 0% of my day is researching, studying, looking at odds, learning about strategies.

It's all marketing.

All marketing.

It's all, you know, if you can get the Instagram reels to blow up, your Discord's going to get more people in it.

So are there cappers who are good for sure?

But usually, the nerdy dudes who spend all their time betting and researching lines, you know, it doesn't really go hand in hand with like having a massive Instagram following or being an expert in marketing.

I'd imagine AI is going to help with that research process for most people, right?

Yeah, I mean, AI is gonna

AI is gonna be crazy to see, um, definitely the future, but right now it's like not good with real-time data.

So,

I've played around with it a lot, and we use it to

I use it to simplify my workday and also like parts of the company and coding even it helps make easier like all sorts of things, but it's not good with real-time data.

Like if you ask it, what are the odds on, you know, this game and a player's injured, it's not going to be like up to date.

So definitely AI is going to transform sports betting.

Probably the least interesting industry it will transform.

But

yeah.

Yeah, I use it every day, but I know people are saying it's going to replace day traders and like sports bettors.

I don't know when that's going to happen, maybe down the road.

Definitely could.

I mean, I feel like when I was trading, people,

you know,

like trading firms have been growing.

Technology makes it easier, but like they're still trading firms, like still a very good job, well paid.

They're growing a lot of them, but dude, I don't know what AI is going to do.

But it's, it'll for sure be crazy.

But yeah, personally, in sports betting right now, I don't think it's particularly useful.

How many casinos are you limited from right now?

Most, I would say.

Because you're considered a sharper, right?

Yeah, in some ways.

And some books, I would say, limit more aggressively than others.

So some books will be like three bucks, right?

Like you're basically done.

So what you'll see a lot of people do, like I would say the hustlers, the elves of the world, the, you know, previous guest he had on.

And,

you know, certain people are more entrepreneurial.

Again, it goes back to like not being lazy.

Like certain people will sign up their friends, their mom, cut deals with them so they can like keep getting action down.

But other books don't limit that aggressively, kind of payment for information.

Like they're willing to take a little bit of sharp action so they can improve pricing and, you know, maximize profits even better off squares.

Dumb sports betters.

So I would say it's kind of like some books are more aggressive than others yeah in terms of limits and it also depends on the betting market all sorts of stuff like that you know you're going to be able to get more money down on the nba finals compared to uh you know korean baseball player props you know um

yeah have you bet on anything weird like that korean baseball or ping pong dude absolutely really absolutely um All sorts of weird stuff, especially during COVID, man.

I was going to say, UFC was definitely the most most fun.

Like when I still had my full-time job, I was, I was telling you before the podcast, like literally ran into Volkanovsky, did not recognize him.

I was pretty sure you're like on the golf cart to the wind golf lounge.

And I just like, but I loved betting on the UFC.

I guess that's the point.

Yeah.

Like knockouts, betting on a dude to get knocked out.

I mean, there were fights.

I would be talking to my friend who like.

was also a trader and and we bet a lot and we'd be like, we made more money betting on this dude to get knocked out than he got for showing up and getting knocked out.

Like,

I loved UFC.

Just like, you know, that's where the, the sports betting market at, is at, though.

Like the betters, there's more volume there than the actual athletes are getting paid now.

Okay, yeah.

Not, not maybe for, uh, you know, Shay Gilgis Alexander, but yeah, for, for some, for sure.

I'd say for the average salary player.

For sure.

Like the average NBA salary is, I don't know what it, maybe not NBA, actually, but NFL, I feel like for sure.

Yeah, it definitely depends and it depends on the sports better.

Like, I'd say anybody who claims they can make a million dollars a year sports betting easily is questionable

just because of limits, right?

And I'm talking about like doing this repeated, repeatedly and like in a way that is actually reasonable.

It's like, sure, maybe could you convince a casino to let you bet 1.1 mil, just play it on the Super Bowl, win a million dollars.

But I'm talking about like, if you were betting every single day, like trying to get an edge.

I hope you guys are enjoying the show.

Please don't forget to like and subscribe.

It helps the show a lot with the algorithm.

Thank you.

Um, yeah, maybe online sports books, like the fan duels, prize picks, draft kings of the world, limit faster too, or limit more aggressively compared to in-person physical like you have in Vegas.

But

I don't know.

I haven't spent enough time here.

Maybe someday.

You'll see.

Do you shot?

Do you trust?

Yeah, very hot.

Do you trust the online crypto casinos or no?

Overall, yeah.

I mean,

a lot of people will say,

oh, they're going to like steal me out of my 2K if I end up winning.

But like, I mean, realistically,

depending on the one, right?

But like, most of these, a lot of these books have built up reputations over 30 years.

So,

you know, like, I wouldn't feel too worried with like 20k in the account and betting that and expecting them to pay it out personally.

But to be fair, like, I definitely think there's people who get screwed over.

Like there's big talk right now about some guy won like a $10 to win a million parlay, something crazy.

Damn.

Something crazy like that.

Like that may not be exactly or $100,000, whatever, but he gave it out.

And I don't know, like apparently it didn't get paid out by FanDuel, whatever, but that's very rare.

I mean, I feel like books in general, if they have a gross error, like

let's say they list, you know, Patrick Mahomes to win MVP next year.

The sports book glitches out.

It's plus a million, right?

You can bet like a dollar to turn it into tens of, like, obviously the book is going to avoid that bet.

They'd go out of business otherwise if enough people see it in time and it's a clear error.

So, I mean, there are, I mean, I don't want to sound like I'm siding with the sports books, but like, you know, there are times it's like, okay, like.

this book's not going to go out of business because they had a glitch that like a very few informed amount of customers took advantage of.

But I mean, in general, like sketchy things happen in sports betting for sure, people not getting paid out, books, you know, but I would say overall, I feel safe personally with my money and basically any sports book.

Yeah, because I'll see viral videos of like someone trying to cash out of the casino at Caesars or whatever, and they won't do it, but you also don't know the context of what happened before.

A lot of times it's like they're not letting you do it because like you haven't uploaded your ID and they need that.

It's not always malicious.

I mean, obviously for social media, people maybe like to make it seem that way or people flip out, like, oh my gosh, I can't get my money out.

And it's like, dude, they like tell you they need your social security, like the last four of your social to hit the withdrawal button because for like whatever tax reasons.

So like a lot of times it's not malicious and it's just people not

doing instructions.

Vegas Dave fought a whole case about that.

Yeah.

Federal case years ago.

You had him on?

He's been on, but yeah, he got in trouble because uh he tried to cash out and he didn't want to provide his ID or something.

Oh, yeah, it was like a big deal, yeah.

Yeah, I mean, exactly, stuff like that.

Like, it happens to me all the time.

Some books definitely make it hard.

It's like to put money in easy, yeah.

You want to put in 10 grand, they'll take your money.

Withdrawing, we need a bank statement, we need you know, proof of address, we need a picture of your ID, we need you to go here.

Some books are brutal with that, but again, I'm no expert, and

I have no idea what regulations are required of them

to verify identity.

So I don't know.

They might tighten up after what happened with Otani in Resorts World, too.

Yeah, yeah.

Otani definitely gambled.

You think he did?

I did.

I love watching Otani.

I love going to Dodgers games, but

I definitely think he did.

Why are you so convinced?

I mean, I just don't think you can, like, casually, I mean, Otani's not Jeff Bezos.

So, like, I don't think you can, like, casually lose track of that much money.

I mean, it would be shocking.

It was like, even now, I think his salary is,

I may be an idiot, right?

This may be wrong, but I think it's, he's paid a million dollars a year, but then he gets a lump sum of like 690.

It's not like this guy is a liquid billion in his checking account.

No, he deferred it.

Right.

So

I, I, I don't know.

The whole thing's sketchy.

It makes you question if one of the top athletes is betting, how many of the like lesser-known athletes are betting?

Yeah.

And I, I've talked to athletes because we have some who use Oddsdam.

Again, I talked to Goldentate.

Again, it's like a lot of guys get, it's just most aren't stupid, right?

Like John Tay Porter, you know, telling people to bet his own unders, there's like perfect evidence of it.

It's like, I mean,

you know, most people aren't that stupid.

Murders are only solved at a 50% rate.

So I can't even imagine for illegally betting the rate they're actually able to catch people.

But again, I kind of said this before, like if games are rigged, if players are rigging themselves to bet the over or the under, you know it happens.

I'm 100% certain it happens, mainly because of college player props.

There are these new peer-to-peer sites.

So essentially they don't have limits.

You can bet however much money you want, but you'll see somebody come in to a peer-to-peer site, okay, and try to bet 30K on some random dude, right?

Like we're not talking about Cooper Flag, right?

We're talking about a random player.

They'll try to bet like 30K on him to go over or under.

It's like,

you know, if that much liquidity is entering a very small market, it's like, okay, like, I feel like this is.

his roommate at his frat house who like knows he actually has a sprained leg and is probably going to be on reduced minutes.

Like, you know, there's things like that that are happening.

I'm 100% positive.

I mean, I know, right?

Like, I mean, I used to live next to athletes when I was in college.

And like, I mean, I don't know, like, especially if you're very close with them, it's probably pretty easy to pick up things

inside information that's not priced into the market, baked into the odds.

The same way, like, you know, if you're really good friends with Jeb Bezos, maybe you could get some inside info on Amazon and Insider Trade, but I don't even know if there's regulation for that in sports betting.

Like if you live with a dude who's a star running back and you know he's injured, I don't think there's regulations for you can't

bet on him to go under for as much money as you want.

Yeah, I think it has to be their direct family or something.

Yeah, I mean, again, I'm not 100% positive, but it definitely happens.

Jante Porter is crazy.

Tim Donaghy is crazy.

It's all crazy, right?

So like NBA, NFL, they got to be rigged.

But from a better's perspective, I don't really care because

if you're not in on the rigging, like it's 50-50 to be for you, against you.

Last year, I think I placed 8,000 total bets.

So like maybe some are rigged against me, some for me.

I have some good beats, lucky wins, some bad beats, like kind of averages out.

And that's the perspective I have.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's interesting because it could be rigged on the player level and the ref level.

Yeah.

Are there ref bets?

Like how many fouls?

Maybe, maybe on a prediction market.

Have you heard of like Calci Polymarket?

They sponsor the product, Calci, really.

Yeah, it's my uh ex-girlfriend's company.

Oh, really?

Yeah, a girl started Cal Shi, co-founder.

Yeah, holy crap, that's like shocking.

Cause I just assumed, I guess, it's a little sexist, but like a male would start a sports betting company.

Well, it was, yeah, it was, yeah, two people, but we do a little work with them now.

So, um, you know, but yeah, like

probably.

I mean, if you can bet on Elon blocking Trump after all the whatever, like, I don't even know what you'd call political.

Who knows if that was real, too?

Yeah, exactly.

I've heard some wild theories that that was planned.

Yeah, exactly.

So

you never know.

If you're just in the numbers, you don't really care, right?

Yeah, exactly.

I mean, I think, like, even when we sold Odgem, like first day, it's like, you get the money.

I just pushed it all like immediately into the market.

And wow, all of it?

You didn't save any?

Not really.

I mean, I actually got this advice when I was at SIG.

When I was working as a trader, Susquehanna, which is a great job, by the way.

I literally took it.

There's like big articles about it.

It's a trading firm and they teach you poker.

Like part of your great job where you're paid absurdly well is, you know, you got to play poker.

Really?

Yeah.

Because they believe it like helps you and you would get fired if you were crappy.

Really?

If you made a decision, they would they would test you after every hand why did you do this why did you do this and if you were just like oh i don't know bro like i just wanted to bluff you'd get fired wow like it was ruthless but they want to see your decision making why did you decide to bet why did you decide to bet that this much why the same the same reason with trading they can't have their quant traders being like i don't know man i just felt like buying facebook and like whatever you know like it's like everything very analytical, logical, data driven.

I don't really know where I was getting with that, but i think just like that's where i learned sports betting that's where people taught me sports betting you know a lot of really smart people and i think very similarly i just got the advice initially like take your income put 80 into tech stocks put 20 into crypto and like i mean crypto's up like a thousand percent more since i started since i started

yeah so That was actually the seed capital for for for for for odds jam was probably ethereum's run up now it's gone down but i think it went up hit 4k yeah it went like 200 to 4k i think i got the 20x and then sold some start odds jam but i think like

yeah

like you can pump the market one like i don't know it's like and i think the day i put a ton of money into the market like it went down yeah one percent two percent whatever but it's like whatever like now it's back up like it's random who cares like over the course of the long run like it's better to invest your money as opposed to be sitting in cash way better so i don't really think about it right i don't know if the market's up today or down because i don't care like i think you just make money you put 80 into equities 20 into crypto maybe if you're old

put some in treasuries but like

it's hard to go i think it's just like and then you just leave it and you don't think and you don't be a freak about like The same way, really, when I was sports betting, like when I was still working at SIG, like I would go to bed with 20K 20K bet,

fresh out of college, you know, didn't have a ton of money, but like knew my bets had an edge and just wake up the next day and check.

But didn't a lot of it is building up that even at SIG, they encouraged you to like flip a coin with your peers for like $2,000.

And they knew it was a lot of money to us, like fresh out of college, everyone's broke.

I mean, you're starting to make money, but because it like builds up your tolerance to variance, like over the course of the long run, it's a coin, it's 50-50, you're not going to make money, you're not going to lose money.

but you learn to if it shows up tails two times in a row you're not like oh crying right like you build up the like logic that like okay like you know

it's fine um what an interesting company culture that sounds like a very company very fun place to work for actually sick company yeah it was really hard to quit for sure was that the toughest decision you've had to make yeah at the time it really was because i really liked my job i mean you're paid a lot of money i got to play poker um

It's sick.

Like if the Eagles win the Super Bowl, they like gave you 5K or the Phillies.

Like it's a very great company culture.

It was only working like 40 hours a week.

So I loved it.

And you're gambling, like as a trader, you are gambling other people's money.

That is what you are doing as a quant trader.

Right.

Like you are getting paid a very good salary to gamble.

other people's money, the founders, the partners, whatever, depending on the firm.

So you consider it gambling not calculated investment?

Quant trader?

Really?

I would say it's gambling.

The same way I think like Phil Ivey, Daniel Negron, you, is that where you pronounce those name?

But like

they're gamblers.

They're just gamblers with an edge.

You can call them investors, but then I feel like you start to sound a little stupid.

I think the difference in some ways between gambling and investing is like, I think of gambling, like trading, day trading, being more active.

Like you are.

Like you are trading in and out of things, right?

Whereas investing, like maybe you put your money in a, you know, 401k and like leave it like i don't consider that really gambling um but i think like poker right quick hits are gambling and you can be a negative edge gambler or a positive edge gambler at sig they are market makers so like they just

you know we set prices right like a dollar bid 120 offer right you can you can sell it to me for a dollar or or you can buy it from me for 120 just liquidity providers bid ass spread type thing um similar to a sports book right sports books you can can bet on either team, you know, Thunder or Pacers, and like they just charge the vague, they just charge a spread around fair value.

It's the same thing as a trader.

So you're essentially a sports book.

And yeah, I mean, I think it's like 99.9% of retail traders who trade against SIG.

lose long term Robinhood accounts.

We absolutely kill them.

They can't beat the bid ass spread.

Stock market, impossible to beat.

Options, you're going to get killed.

Basically, I mean, again, it's 99.9%.

what if you just 0.999

right but that's investing that's not oh god you're talking about day trading yeah i'm talking about the people who try to flip in and out of calls and think they're the next wall street that's 90 i literally think the stats of what percentage of robin hood like brokerages are beat it's like over 99.9 long term by market makers

you're getting killed markets are too efficient there's no opportunity sports betting on the other hand you have hundreds of books all setting their own lines markets very inefficient they have it's kind of weird because i know i talked about limits which are a bad thing if you're a sports better you want to be able to bet as much as you want always

um

so you don't have to create new accounts and sign up friends and family like a lot of these guys end up doing um

but like obviously if books couldn't limit people or discriminate based on how smart a customer is, there would be no opportunity.

They would sharpen up overnight because they can't get killed by really smart people.

Like Elf, if Elf could bet $10,000 a bet, he would, but he probably can't most places.

So it's kind of like if there weren't limits, then there would also be no opportunity.

The same way the stock market, there's equal opportunity for all, but there's really not.

You're at such a big data tech disadvantage.

If you're not a trading firm, 99.9 something percent of people lose money trading against market makers long term.

And again, that's very different from investing, but I'm not talking talking about like buying bitcoin and holding it or the s p 500 or qs or you know whatever i'm talking about like the degenerates who wake up on a tuesday morning and try to you know trade call options in and out of positions on united airlines it's like we were making i mean you make disgusting money off those people

it's like a dream client for you guys

yeah

but Liquidity providers, yeah, that's what market makers do.

And I learned a lot about gambling because essentially, as a market maker, you're the sports book.

You're charging spreads, you're adjusting lines, adjusting prices.

That's line movement, you know, in sports betting.

So you like the, I would say, sports betting and trading are the exact same thing, right?

And you're seeing the intersection with companies like Calci and like Polymarket, where it's trading, right?

You can bet on, like, a lot of people think of sports betting as completely different, but it's not.

And companies like Calci, where it is much more trading focused, um,

kind of highlight that.

I feel like you could get an insane edge on some of the bets on Calci.

Like, cause I'm in, I have on politicians and stuff, and I know they have a politics tab.

Like, I just feel like you could get crazy edges on that, you know?

Probably.

I mean, I think I'm not trying to shut out your edge company.

No, no, no.

Absolutely.

Well, that's very different.

I mean, Calci, I wouldn't call

most of these markets don't have that much liquidity.

If you're betting on Elon to unblock or block his Twitter, if you put down $5,000, you could move the line by, you know, whatever.

You can't get that much action down.

It's not trading in and out of Apple stock where you could buy 50 million right now and the price may not even move by a cent.

So,

yeah, I mean, there's got to be huge edges on these platforms.

I mean, in hindsight, not to get political, but I think.

Obviously, in hindsight, I think it was really obvious Trump was going to win.

And he was underdog at first.

Yeah, you could have gotten him at like plus 130.

It's like, I mean, there's that huge article of the French whale who did the neighbor survey.

You read that?

No, what happened?

This guy basically was like, people, because Trump is very controversial, people won't tell you what they're going to vote for, but they'll tell you if you ask them, hey, who do you think your neighbor's voting for?

Or who do you think your friends are voting for?

People would be like, Trump at a much higher proportion.

So basically, like, whatever, he figured that out, figured out Trump was going to to win every swing state with very high confidence.

And he ended up making 60 million.

He's the one.

He's the one who drove the line movement towards Trump.

I think I saw an article about him.

So, I mean, in hindsight, it's like, damn, like, I'm sitting here, like, betting on sports and,

you know, grinding out edges and running this company.

Like, all I had to do was do the obvious and.

It's all my money on.

Exactly.

It's always obvious in hindsight.

But,

I mean, yeah.

Did you bet on the NBA playoffs this season?

Yeah, I went to a couple of the games.

I went to a lot of the NBA playoff games, actually.

A lot of fun, and I bet on them.

You bet on them every single one.

No, I was actually on the Pacers the last game.

Damn, if Hallie Byrne didn't get injured, they might have had a shot.

I know.

Obviously, really, no.

I got the shorts on right now.

Can't see them, I guess.

But

yeah, no affiliation to the team, but I thought they were fun.

I was rooting for them because it seed blaz.

Did you see that?

That parlour?

Yeah.

Oh, 125K.

Crazy.

Madness, dude.

But, I mean, it was a great NBA finals.

Like,

yeah, it was a great playoff.

Seven games.

I mean, it's good for us.

The longer the series goes, the more basketball, it's good for the industry, period.

Because baseball, I mean...

Too many games, right?

Nobody really cares about baseball.

Is the liquidity in baseball?

Is there enough?

Yeah, there's enough.

It's just like,

I mean, nobody really cares.

Even the players don't care.

Yeah, even the players don't care, Otani, but like, I think it's just like compared to betting interest of the MLB versus GNFL, like just content, everything, betting volume, it drops drastically on every sports book.

Yeah.

What sport gets the most action?

Is it soccer?

Football, I guess?

NFL.

I mean, I'm a big Commanders fan.

Shout out to my boy Jaden Daniels, Washington Commanders.

I'm a big NFL fan, but also like sports betting.

And NFL definitely gets the most betting volume, but then NBA, then probably baseball, then NHL.

Soccer's not even up there.

Or actually, what am I saying?

College football.

Well, if we're talking about U.S., soccer volume is not high.

Oh, okay.

Internationally.

Yeah, exactly.

But I think as a sports better, You just like, dude, I don't.

I mean, I do love my teams, but also like you much more are invested with your money.

Like, I would literally be so excited for a guy to get knocked out who I had, you know, nothing against.

Yeah, I mean, that used to be my Saturday night routine is like DoorDash, Chick-fil-A, bet 15K on the UFC and, you know, get a six-pack of Coronas and just like watch the fights.

You've come a long way.

It was great, but that, you know, I started out sports betting with arbitrage,

got into, kind of got bored, started taking more risk with betting.

That's called positive EV betting and super accessible.

Again, a lot of time, most people are very lazy.

They get limited on a sports book.

They're like, Yeah, this isn't worth my time.

But then you have the guys like Elf who hustle and end up making hundreds, thousands of dollars a year with OddsJam or, you know, just another

whatever, like data.

Like you can do this manually.

It just kind of takes more time.

And you have all the data on your customers.

So you actually see how much they're making, right?

Yeah.

That's that's pretty fascinating.

Yeah.

We, yeah exactly people always think it's too good to be true i mean people always be like i hit one bet off odds jam and it lost and it's like yeah but like dude you're missing the point like we are not a handicapper we are the bloomberg terminal if you don't think data is important in the 21st century like i like it's like i don't know how to help you that's why companies get bought it's for data Yeah, exactly.

I mean, we had a lot of customers and also a lot of good data and a lot of tech.

And like, obviously our customers think it's valuable.

And, you know, we have low churn, and people pay us, and they pay us for a long time.

But, like, I mean, it's like, yeah, I think so many people, it just doesn't click.

Right.

The same way, like, there's a difference between a Bloomberg terminal and joining a Discord where they tell you, buy Facebook.

Now pay me $200 a month.

Like, it's very different.

So,

you know, you need a Bloomberg terminal to even compete.

The same way I feel like you need access to data or at least access to a certain level of knowledge and understanding of how sports books set odds, lines, prices, adjust prices to even consider gambling.

It's just most people, I mean, they're lazy, right?

There's a reason, like guys like Mozzie VS who are like, yo, I'm 50 and O.

It's like most unrealistic shit I've ever heard.

It's like, yeah, man, I'm 50 and oh on my last like, you know, 50 bets.

And it's like, dude, like, I think I saw Vegas Dave at one point said he had a perfect MLB season.

It's like, that's like statistically impossible, bro.

Like, but, you know, people, people like easy.

Nobody likes grinding.

Um, and the guys who crush it are grinders like Elf, who make six-figure sports betting.

They're not lazy.

They see the power, like the power of sports betting is really daily compounding.

And by that, I mean, like, if you can get a 1% profit margin, right?

Similar to being a day trader, if you could have a 1% profit margin on your day trades and you could do 10 trades a day, right?

That's 10%.

So, So, and it's kind of the same thing in sports betting: if you can make $20 risk-free on an arbitrage bet,

arbitrage is like probably the main strategy that people like to use on Odds Jam.

It's like when two books have such different odds, you can like trade it really quickly.

You got to move fast in and out of the discrepancies to guarantee a profit.

Um,

and

long story short, like the power of that is like you get the money back that night.

You hit five arbitrage bets for $20.

That's $100.

That's $3,000 a month risk-free.

And that's like what appealed to me, you know, is

when I started sports betting and it and it legalized and some people I worked with were doing it and telling me about it is like, holy moly, I can go home, right?

Like, sure, people will say start a business, right?

Like you can start a business and make $100 a night.

And it's like, well, most businesses are never profitable.

And also, I just graduated college and like, no, I don't want a boss.

No, I don't want employees.

Like, I just want something I can flip on my computer and do and make money from.

And

that's arbitrage, right?

You hit 10 arbitrage bets a day for $10.

Don't be fucking lazy.

It's $100 a day, $3,000 a month.

And like, that's what appealed to me.

And that's how you get hooked on it.

And then you're like, what other gambling strategies?

The same way I'm sure Elf talked about all these weird edges he's doing and ways he's making money.

Because once you get hooked and are like, damn, I can beat these books and make $100 a day risk-free, super easy.

It's like, how else can I make money?

And that's where things get interesting with all sorts of stuff.

But yeah, sports betting market, crazy.

Let's dive into some of those stories.

You've probably heard some crazy industry stories, crazy gambling stories.

What's what comes to mind for you when you hear that?

Yeah,

I would say in terms of crazy industry stories, I mean, the one making waves right now is this dude who won the huge parlay and Vandal hasn't paid him or his Discord subscribers.

There's stuff like that.

Like, dude, I mean, I don't know.

In terms of sports books, just like being dumb, I remember when they initially launched and they partnered with colleges, dude, like Points Bet paid University of Colorado Boulder, I think, $2 million to market it to students, which like you have to know this is a PR disaster in the making.

I know for a fact, I get messages from college kids who live with college football players.

You can now bet on college player props who know inside information and tell you.

I've even heard inside NFL information and just not acted on it.

People DM me on Twitter like, yo, man, like, I'm actually like a trainer for this, you know, whatever.

And like, this happened.

Like, there's definitely crazy things like that.

Sports playing is a crazy industry.

There's a lot of money to make.

Which is why, you know, it was a hard decision to quit my job.

But like, yeah, I mean, I don't know.

I remember.

I forget where I heard it.

I think it was from my co-founder, but it's like, you don't get a lot of shots in a game.

Like, if you're a Connor McDavid and you're the Oilers and you're competing in the Stanley Cup, right?

You don't get 50 chances to score, bro.

Like you get a few.

So I think sports betting being new, really knowing sports betting, really knowing gambling, trading, being young, a little more hip to social media, maybe and marketing compared to like 50 year old men.

It's like, okay, like there's not many 24 year olds I was at the time trying to.

start companies, but like, or start a law firm, but like crypto, sports betting, like there are things that are young men, you know, young women, crypto for sure, young games, right?

You don't see many 80-year-old men, you know, doing the next big thing in crypto.

I could be wrong and respectful.

You're not wrong.

I was at Bitcoin conference last month.

It was all young, young cats.

I mean, even sports betting.

So,

so definitely not the case in sports betting.

So I kind of thought like, damn, this good shot and we'll make some money.

I was getting limited on sports books.

So I was like, gambling is actually the better I've gotten and the more knowledgeable, the less money I'm making because of these limits.

I don't really feel like, you know, contacting 45 of my friends to keep getting accounts and keep betting through them.

Like this seems complicated.

And like, you could do it easily.

And I could have made it, had it, had it be a great side hustle, but I was like, well, pretty easy if you can just like create a product.

There's no good tools.

There's no good data.

There's no good content.

This industry is so stupid.

It gets so many idiots and scammers in it.

If you can do something halfway decent, you can probably grow the crap out of it.

So I just thought it was like, yeah, it's probably a good shot.

And I was spending, yeah, I mean, yeah, I was spending a ton of time sports betting, researching sports betting.

Like it definitely, especially during COVID, when there's nothing to do, like it can definitely consume your life, right?

Gambling is fun.

It's super fun.

Super fun.

So it's definitely a thrill.

So yeah.

I don't even remember the initial question.

I don't know either.

I was invested in your story, though.

Parlay P, baby.

You do any parlays?

Huh?

You do any parlay bets?

Yeah, I do parlays.

The math behind parlay is pretty simple.

Okay.

They get a horrible rep.

Most people, okay, 97% of people lose money sports betting.

A parlay is just a combination of bets.

So let's say.

The average sports better loses about 5%, which I think is accurate, 5% to 10% on a single bet, on a straight bet.

For a two-leg parlay, that goes, it doubles, right?

They're going to lose about 10%.

So that's why parlays for

dumb bettors, right?

Like you get killed because every leg you add, you're compounding the juice.

But you can also do the opposite.

If you're a better with an edge, a plus EV parlay, you know, if two bets are plus EV profitable, then, you know, it's going to be plus EV and a parlay.

It's not like a parlay fundamentally changes the odds or the math behind sports books and just makes you lose.

All it does is increase variance.

It's all a parlay does.

So I bet on parlays because they're fun and people like them.

When I'm, you know, I'll do live streams from time to time and stuff like that where I share my bets.

But

yeah, I mean, I do do them.

They're fun for sure.

Any crazy parlays you hit?

Yeah, I hit for 60K last year on Judge and Otani.

Nice.

Only off of, because I was limited on the book.

I could only get down like a few K spread across different bets, but they were mispricing Otani and Judge to go yard.

I thought there was like a 20% edge.

Like I did a video about it.

I talked about it on stream.

So I was like, screw it.

I'm betting my max 4,000 bucks.

They're probably not going to go yard.

I was actually in LA at the time, and I remember just like being on the phone after Judge went yard and Otani was up.

I think it was like the eighth inning.

And like, I knew too, because I promoted the crap out of it after Judge went yard that like a lot of people had tailed it.

So

that ended up hitting.

And you can find the clip.

Jake Paul made a video that's like, you know, Alex, congrats, but whoever mispriced this, I'm going to fire him.

Oh, better.

Yeah, exactly.

So Jake Paul made a video.

I got the shout out from him.

So that was pretty cool because I gained like probably like 10k Twitter followers.

Nice.

Yeah.

I thought Better was an interesting move for Jake Paul, actually.

Smart.

I mean, the thing is, is most sports betters are really dumb i assume the profit margin of his book given that it's

you can you can't even do straight picks you need multiple picks in an entry i assume his average profit margin per wager given what i know about the industry is probably for that type of product 15 20 wow pretty easy so if you get 10 million in in bet sizing you're getting 15 of that that's crazy that's a money printer it's a money printer so is that there are

i mean i can't yeah i mean i think if it were known how much some of these gambling companies were making, a lot of people would be shocked.

Well, stakes numbers have been partially revealed.

Those guys are printing.

I mean, there's a reason Drake will make full videos about it for God knows, I don't know what he has of the company, 1%, 2%.

But

yeah, a lot of money.

A lot.

Wow.

A lot.

A lot of money.

A lot of stupid sports betters.

Would you ever go down that route in the future, starting your own?

There's so many different types of sports books at this this point.

There are sweepstakes books, there's fantasy sites that, you know, are like better picks where they're similar, but they're not sports books in the eyes of the law.

Um,

there's peer-to-peer sites, betting exchanges, there's prediction markets.

I'm not completely morally opposed to it.

Um,

you know, doing like I think an exchange, it's like peer-to-peer.

I mean, but obviously, no plans at all.

But I, do I, do I, do I disrespect people who like do those things?

No, I mean, I mean, it is a form of entertainment.

Like, I think we all agree in Vegas, like, it's a fun city to be in.

And I totally get the appeal of, yeah, I want to gamble with my friends and play poker.

And I probably don't have an edge.

I'm probably not going to make money.

I'm probably not plus EV, but like, I don't give a shit.

I'm going to have fun.

I'm going to get free drinks.

Like, life's good.

Yeah.

So, I mean, yeah, I don't know.

I mean,

right?

I'm pretty similar.

I used to have an issue with it, but then I thought about it more and I'm like, the casino is providing a lot more than just gambling.

Totally.

They're providing like restaurants and atmosphere drinks.

Totally.

I pay thousands of dollars for sports tickets sometimes.

It's like, I mean,

you know, like people can spend, I mean, I think the problem is very similar to alcohol, right?

Like,

or anything in life.

Like, some people can't control it.

Junk food, right?

Like, you get the people who become alcoholics and ruin their lives and whatever.

And it's horrible, but should we ban alcohol?

And it's like, I do think it's the same thing in gambling.

You have the people who it's like, dude, you are clearly a losing sports better.

All you're doing is depositing money.

Like, and now you're going to take out your daughter's college fund and now you're going to get a hit piece about gambling in the New York Times, you dumbass.

Like, I don't think that means fan duel is evil.

It doesn't.

It means this guy, like,

has a problem and like people have problems with with everything do you know how many people lose money day trading nobody talks about that you know how many people get smoked trying to day trade crypto oh wrecked wrecked trying to trying to do the next you know wall street bets like dude the like market makers these trading firms are printing money nobody cares but like you know same thing i guess in some ways with sports books like there's some people who just they don't learn like there's certain people who just like i mean it sounds horrible to say and i guess it's just having an addiction, but it's not an addiction where you like grow.

It's not like, oh, I'm losing.

Maybe I should like understand why.

No, it's just like, I need to double down on thunder minus eight and a half.

And it's like, how is that the way your brain works?

Yeah.

The same way I think like when I see these clowns like Vegas Dave being like, I'm 82 and oh, it's like, who is falling for that?

But like people do.

Vegas Dave, I will say, has made a lot of money.

I'm 100%.

I'm 100% confident that he makes money selling picks.

A ton.

Way more than I thought.

Yes.

I 100% believe you.

However,

I do think

that I do have a bit of a problem with because I think it's just you lie.

That's why I asked you, like, how many of these guys that sell picks are legit?

Because at a certain level, when you're selling that many picks, aren't you going to move the market?

When you're, when there's that many people in your community betting on that pick?

Aren't you going to move the lines?

Dude, you can, if you look, because I bought picks for a bunch of these Discords, it'll just be half Thunder plus or minus nine and a half, half Pacers plus nine and a half.

Just people picking random shit out of a barrel.

Like, there's nothing going on.

So, like, it probably somewhat balances out.

But,

I mean, the thing is, is none of this is informed action.

So, none of the accounts that are paying for Mozzie VS's picks even have a pulse.

Banduel will probably take their action all day long, right?

Just true.

So I don't know how much line movement it actually leads to because they're not sharp.

These aren't smart dudes betting into markets.

I mean,

again, and, you know, I respect the ability to market, but I do think it's largely.

The acting like it's easy and you can, it's just, it's bullshit.

I love good marketing.

I don't like lying.

Like when you're lying about the record, I have a problem with that.

Yeah, exactly.

Like, exactly.

But if you're like marketing and flexing and shit, as long as you're being honest with the numbers, I don't care.

Yeah.

I don't even care about like, yeah, market your wins.

Like, nobody's stupid.

Like, you should market, you know, when you hit big or on a big streak.

But I think, like, the like, yeah, man, I'm just like 82 and oh, I never lose.

It's like, that's like, yo, let's like,

I mean, it's unfortunate, but there's, there's people who just don't have that reflex, who don't have any distrust in society who are just like, oh my God, all I need to do is buy Vegas Dave's picks for $1,000 a day and like put money on them.

I mean, there's also touting services.

Have you heard of those?

No, what is that?

It is when it's very simple and they will sell email lists back and forth between each other.

You have, let's say, you know, an email list of a million people, like odds jam, a million people, right?

You have 500,000 people you send thunder, 500,000 pacer spread.

One of them is going to win, one of them's going to lose.

They're equal and opposite outcomes.

The 500,000 that you won, you send them another bet.

I'm going to give you another free pick next game, over or under.

Split them up, 250.

Now you have someone who you've convinced 250,000 who you've hit both in a row.

You just send them the other 750,000, you sell that email list to another tout.

250,000, yo, I know the future with sports.

buy my picks a thousand dollars a day they think you're a genius because you won the last two that is huge business here huge you have no idea

no idea but syndicates i mean the sharper betters i mean they're a big deal too we have a lot of syndicates who pay for odds jam data feeds what's a syndicate

like i i guess like a collective group of bettors hammering lines at the same time is probably the simplest way got it

Probably the simplest way I'd say that.

But yeah, limits suck.

I really think to long-term make a ton of money sports betting, you need a constant funnel of new accounts, and you could pretty easily make

the easiest $200,000 of your life in a few hours a day betting while games are going on.

If you can just get some new accounts.

But I don't think that's discouragement for people not to sign up.

Every single one of my friends, if they come to Virginia for a week, I can make them easily.

$10,000 just doing the sportsbook signup bonuses.

Because most of these books, sportsbooks know the average customer loses $2,000 a year off of us.

Wow.

So most of them run like pretty lucrative deposit matches.

Some are only, you put in 100, you get 100 for free.

Some are bigger.

But like, if you did every sportsbook in a mathematically optimal way, I gave a YouTube video breaking it down, but like if you traveled to every state, which I used to do,

you could make 18 grand.

When sports betting legalized in Colorado, Sports Illustrated launched SI Sportsbook and they had a $7,500 risk-free bet.

Your first bet, you lose, you get your money back up to 7.5K.

Wow.

So what you could do is just bet Thunder on Sports Illustrated.

You could hedge on a different book.

I literally flew to Colorado for a weekend, paid for the entire trip plus some, because if you go through the math behind like hedging that, it's worth 5K.

Like, it's crazy.

And that's only one sports book in Colorado.

So like, there's real money you can make, you know, even my sister, like, just signed up, helped her sign up for sports books, made her a quick five grand.

She bought fucking Botega Veneta bag,

something like that, like the new Gucci apparently.

But like, it's like, is she ever going to bet on sports again?

No, is she a pro sports better?

No, but is she up 5K on sports books?

And is that sick?

Like, yeah.

Wow.

Yeah.

That's awesome, man.

Anything else you want to close off with here?

Where can people sign up for OddsJam and learn more about you also?

I'm on Twitter, Alex Monahan.

I'm on YouTube, OddsJam, Jam, Alex Monaghan.

Um,

I'm trying to think what we didn't talk about, man.

We talked about odds, Jam.

Yeah, we have some sick customers, Golden Tate, Elf.

I know you've had on.

Get Golden Tate on, love to get him on.

Um,

yeah, honestly, not much else.

I think this was great.

I had a lot of fun, and

we'll do a part two, bro.

That was awesome.

That was great.

Thanks for hopping on.

We'll link everything below.

Check them out, guys.

Next time.