Jan Henric Buettner: Why a $10B Founder Came Back to Build a Chess Startup at 60 | DSH #1640

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Speaker 2 The way we see this chess aesthetic, the chess aesthetic before is not so much. You know, I'm always referring to analogies like Formula One when I said from the beginning.

Speaker 2 So the same as we want to apply to chess. We want to have chess being interesting for normal people and not for chess players than the Formula One.

Speaker 2 And then you have all the personality stories and you have the color codes, you have the red Ferrari and the green Esk Martin and so on. And so we applied that model as well.

Speaker 2 So all the players, they have the different color jackets. And so everybody can be distinguished also by the fans, even although the names might not ring a big,

Speaker 4 okay, guys. Jan Henrik Buetner here today.
Hopefully, I pronounced that right. Oh, perfect, freestyle chess.
Yes, big week for you in Vegas.

Speaker 2 Oh, absolutely, yeah.

Speaker 4 You've been busy, huh?

Speaker 2 Yes, very much.

Speaker 4 Past three days having events, and you got four more days, right?

Speaker 2 Five more days, yeah. Five more days.
We have a five-day tournament, and we had a one-day pre-tournament with a chestival. Yesterday was a day off.
Today is a media day.

Speaker 2 Then we have the five-day tournament. We actually turned it down from eight days.
It was before, now it's five days. Wow.

Speaker 4 What was the inspiration for this? I know you started this with Magnus, and it's a really unique concept, right?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, the whole idea came out of my head like a lot of things in my life, and then somehow it escalates, you know. So it was just an idea to improve my chess.

Speaker 2 And here I am now doing all these tournaments.

Speaker 4 Yeah, and it's a very unique so basically, could you explain it? You start with a randomized board, right? Yeah.

Speaker 2 So, the way actually it started is basically, I and I just turned 60 last year and I had my started my career in the 80s with mobile communications.

Speaker 2 And then I went on to online services and venture capital. And then I went back to Germany 20 years ago.
And I lived in California for 15 years.

Speaker 2 And then I went back to Germany and restored a complete rotten village to a beautiful private nature luxury resort over 20 years, the last 20 years.

Speaker 2 And also I built a beautiful music studio, a production studio, like really, really high-end for music production.

Speaker 2 And I talked to some grandmasters that I was actually learning some of my chess, and I invited them to the studio party and so on. And they said, well, it's great.

Speaker 2 Why don't we do a chess tournament here? I'm like, okay, I have no idea what a chess tournament is.

Speaker 2 Explain it to me. And they said, yeah, you can follow us online.
You know, it's like we play here, there, everywhere. So I looked it up and I went, I found a perfect sleeping pill, as I always say.

Speaker 2 It's like it's so boring watching two people play chess. Um, and at the same time, um, Holly, my wife, and I, we were following the following Formula One circus, like on the peddle clubs.

Speaker 2 And I thought the distinction was so big between the chess players and the Formula One drivers, the way they are treated, and the way it's all be seen.

Speaker 2 And I thought, like, okay, maybe we can do a better chess tournament like that. And so, I connected with Magnus because obviously

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Speaker 2 Before the greatest chess tournament that you can do, you need the greatest chess player of all time.

Speaker 2 And then I met with him in Qatar in October 23.

Speaker 2 And he then said, okay, after he, you know, we got to know each other, we spent quite a time with his family, my wife, and the family a little bit together.

Speaker 2 Then he understood that he could basically select his own tournament.

Speaker 2 And he said, if I can select a tournament, I want to play Fisher Random 960 on the highest level with normal thinking time against the best players of the world.

Speaker 2 And I looked at him and I had no idea what he was talking about. Fisher Random, 960, I always said as a joke,

Speaker 2 it's like something, is that Fisher Random for my pharmacy?

Speaker 2 Against my cold, something like that.

Speaker 2 And then

Speaker 2 he explained it to me. So the way it works is basically you randomize the back rank.
It's something that Bobby Fisher has kind of promoted. This is why it's called Fisher Random.

Speaker 2 And thereby making the games starting to be exciting from the beginning and taking all of the the learning by heart of all the lines and all the stuff out of it and really having the fun in the game again.

Speaker 2 And so then we build the whole tour and the whole tournaments around it with all a lot of a lot of different things that we can do with it that make it more media savvy.

Speaker 4 Yeah, that's so smart because classical chess games are so long. Yes.
It's kind of boring, right?

Speaker 2 Yes, yes, exactly. So it's it's first of all, they are very long and they're boring as well.
So it's like seven hours. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 They can be seven hours and so on. So

Speaker 2 and so with the

Speaker 2 freestyle chat, and most of them end in a draw, of all things, at the high level. So you watch like seven hours and then they say, okay, well, let's have a draw.

Speaker 2 It's like

Speaker 2 not really exciting. And so with the freestyle, it can be also long if you have long thinking time, but this is why we reduced the tournament from eight days to five days.

Speaker 2 And the games itself from 90 minutes per person and 30 seconds per player to 30 minutes. So we divided it by three.
So now the games will be much shorter.

Speaker 2 We're going to finish the games within one and a half to two hours maximum. So we are more also eligible for linear TV as well.
And it makes it all more exciting.

Speaker 2 And we can have the quarterfinal, semifinal, and final each on one day. And so the pre-rounds like two days.
And so we can finish the whole tournament in five days.

Speaker 4 I love it. And you brought the best 25 players, right?

Speaker 2 Yes, yes. We have created a freestyle chess players club.
You are eligible with an ELO of 27.25.

Speaker 2 We just talked about ELO, so you have to be way up there, which basically applies to maybe the top 20, 22 players in the world.

Speaker 2 You see the Live 2700 ranking, which basically has like 30 players all together. And so if you're 2725, you are in the club and you are eligible to be picked

Speaker 2 for the tour. And of course, we can't take everybody because we started with eight players, then we had like 10, then we had 12, now we have 16 players.

Speaker 2 We will go go back less than that, but now we have 16 players out of the top 25 playing the tournament.

Speaker 2 And yeah, that's the situation.

Speaker 4 At the Win Hotel.

Speaker 2 At the Win, yes.

Speaker 4 Shout out to the Win. Best Hotel in Vegas.

Speaker 2 I love it. It's basically, when I lived in California 15 years, I was a lot in Las Vegas.
I think we were just counting like 50 times. I've been to Las Vegas.
And I always loved the win. It's perfect.

Speaker 2 And then when we got the chance to partner with the hotel, you know, and we had like three options, I was like, you know, we have to do the win because it's fantastic.

Speaker 2 And I must say, I'm really raving about the win because they are also so professional. I mean, it's like

Speaker 2 working with them is just

Speaker 2 really fantastic. And if you see later on the venue and everything, what we have built together with them is amazing.

Speaker 4 Yeah, it really matches the chess aesthetic, I think, the win.

Speaker 2 Yeah, absolutely. The way we see this chess aesthetic, the chess aesthetic before is not so much.
You know, I'm always referring to analogies like Formula One when I said from the beginning.

Speaker 2 so which people go to to watch chess tournaments? Chess players, right? Similar like Formula One, like who who who watches Formula One races? Formula One drivers, right?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 No, everybody.

Speaker 2 Exactly. Everybody watches Formula One.
And so the same as we want to apply to chess. We want to have chess being interesting for normal people and not for chess players.

Speaker 2 So in the end, like we wanna have this joke, like, it's like, okay, who who watches chess tournaments?

Speaker 2 It's like, oh, it's so boring because watching watching two people play chess is as boring as watching fast cars drive by with no context right so now you give the context in the formula one and then and you have all the personality stories and you have the color codes you have the red Ferrari and the green Eston Martin and so on and so we we applied that that model as well so all the players they have the different color jackets you know and so everybody can be uh distinguished also by the fans even although the names might not ring a big bell yeah um and similar like Formula One races when you go to peddle clubs you have twenty drivers if you look around and talk to like 95% of the people, don't know more than like three or four names of drivers.

Speaker 2 Most of them don't even watch the race during it's going on because they socialize with each other. So we make chess a social event on the highest level.
And we have also some celebrities there.

Speaker 2 And we make the crossover like with the basketball, like two days ago with the basketball players. We will do the same with tennis.
soccer, with other sports.

Speaker 2 So also to bring the fans of those stars to chess, right? For example, the fan fan base of Derek Rose or the other players that have been there are also not interested in what we are doing with chess.

Speaker 4 Brilliant. Because the competitive chess scene has been very boring, right? Yes, prior to this.

Speaker 2 Exactly. It has been very boring.
And it has been really, I always like professional chess players playing chess being commented by chess pros for chess pros.

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Speaker 2 It's a very niche market and we want to open it up because there are 700 million million people in the world that play chess. Wow.

Speaker 2 Chess is one of the words that in every language a child knows one of the first words that they know. So it's such a big market and such a big opportunity and potential and we are starting to

Speaker 2 lift it.

Speaker 4 Do you consider chess a sport?

Speaker 2 Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.
It's very, very demanding. You have to be very fit physically and mentally

Speaker 2 because when you concentrate, think about just you concentrate for a long time. Think you do an exam, like a really high exam, and

Speaker 2 you're really exhausted.

Speaker 4 Yeah, you're really tired after. So this is your main focus right now, freestyle job?

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, it's the main focus that we are doing right now since about one and a half years, my wife and I and all the team we brought together. And so we it's starting a new company again.

Speaker 2 I mean, I've done venture capital for 15 years myself, but now running this new startup again as a CEO is also kind of funny, starting it at 60, like being an entrepreneur again.

Speaker 2 It's kind of funny, but it's also very, very rewarding in a sense.

Speaker 4 Yeah, because you already have a $10 billion exit. Exactly.
You could have retired years ago.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, first of all, retiring, always I look at retiring like

Speaker 2 the next step to death, you know, kind of like, so if you're not busy anymore, then you kind of lay down.

Speaker 2 So I wrote a little booklet about it, like seven times seven.

Speaker 2 Because I think you have like seven times seven years that you can basically be very, very active. So ideally trying to do different things, not all the same things.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and so

Speaker 2 it's not going to be something that I'm going to move for 10 years as an executive.

Speaker 2 I'm going to hand over the torch to somebody in the next maybe 12 months even and then concentrate on my executive chairman role and more being an oversight position rather than in the executive running position.

Speaker 2 But at least right now, putting it up and really bringing everything that I have in my mind for this to the road is very important.

Speaker 4 So seven times seven. So you're saying seven periods of seven years?

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's my theory and that's what I wrote my little booklet about it. It's basically, let's say the first three, seven years you need to become like a serious person, right? So until 21.

Speaker 2 So there's a lot of things going on then. Then you have like seven times seven, so like 49 or 50 years, where you can be really active, right?

Speaker 2 And then when you're 70, you know, you have maybe three or four other periods of seven years where you can basically chill. So that's my basic idea.

Speaker 2 And so why I and the seven years is for me is like a number which I think is for me applied a lot because I did every seven years I did something completely new, like starting from mobile communication to online service, venture capital, you know, being a resort developer and so on and so on.

Speaker 4 Where do you see the next trend? Do you think it's AI?

Speaker 2 Oh, absolutely. I mean, AI is so amazing.
It's like fantastic. I mean, I embrace it totally myself.
You know, it's like

Speaker 2 my little

Speaker 2 chat GPT friend, you know, and I always talk to them. And I, you know, I am very friendly with this because I don't know.

Speaker 2 You never know exactly.

Speaker 2 But it's not based off based on fear. It's basically I'm friendly to everybody.
You know,

Speaker 2 I was talking just to the taxi driver here, like chit-chatting. And I just like, you know, whatever you do, you know, you're a serious person or you're a serious AI personality or whatever.

Speaker 4 That's interesting because there's a lot of people with your wealth that are closed off and reserved. You're not friendly with other people.

Speaker 2 Yeah, no, I don't like that. First of all, I think, you know, you have to be

Speaker 2 a decent person to understand that where you are, a lot to do has to do with luck and

Speaker 2 not really

Speaker 2 taking everything for granted and saying, okay, I have like two or three successful companies. It means that I'm having the fourth one immediately.
It's also being success, but really

Speaker 2 being humble and

Speaker 2 just

Speaker 2 appreciating life and appreciating anything can happen. I mean,

Speaker 2 I could die on the way back, you know, in that.

Speaker 2 Hopefully not, because I'm driving you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 I don't know your driving skills trans style, but no, yes, like, no, but you never know what's happening. So

Speaker 2 you always have, I always think that you have to live your life the way that whatever your decision is, whatever you do, if it's a small or big decision, it has to apply to

Speaker 2 if you if you... not survive the next week or if you become 100 years old, right? So it's like the same as

Speaker 2 has to work in both scenarios, right?

Speaker 4 Wow. So you really think luck matters that much? Yes.

Speaker 2 I mean, luck in terms terms of, I mean, I'm not a religious person, right? So I don't believe like there's a guy sitting there and ruling everything, whatever.

Speaker 2 So, but I believe in fate and I believe in good energy. And I believe that if you give good energy into the world, good energy will come back to you.

Speaker 2 If you give bad energy to the world, it's going to haunt you.

Speaker 2 But again, I'm not acting out of fear. I'm acting based on my own upbringing and instincts and what I think is right.
So I always have done not what makes the most money or whatever,

Speaker 2 what feels right to do. Wow.

Speaker 4 So with the castle, did that feel right to buy that? That 400-year-old castle?

Speaker 2 I can tell you that that was like a very interesting thing which is still going on to this day because in the end there also comes a different thing and into it I'm a perfectionist. I'm a Virgo

Speaker 2 by sign and so everything has to be perfect. So when I purchased this land, 180 acres, 40 ruins, and I then applied my perfectionism to it.

Speaker 2 It took like 20 years, 150 million Euros to build the most prestigious private nature luxury resort. And

Speaker 2 I never thought about like a return on investment or all this kind of thing.

Speaker 2 So, of course, it took a lot of my own private money, so about 90 million of my own equity, but still 60 million of other people's money. And so that has to be earned back.
And yeah, so

Speaker 2 it's very tough right now because I'm right now trying to get a partner or selling it or whatever to kind of bring it to the next level because in the end, I spent three times seven years with this, right?

Speaker 2 So I first year was basically resort developer. Second year was basically second

Speaker 2 seven years was doing it as a profitable hotel operations. And the third part is kind of the nice to have projects like the residences, the studio and so on.

Speaker 2 And I also see now an exit because I spent all my forties and all my fifties with this. And I never would have thought that twenty years ago.

Speaker 2 And so I don't want to carry the bag alone, like in my 60s and 70s, when I see that I have

Speaker 2 maybe somebody to do it together with or have a transition period or sell it or whatever.

Speaker 2 So it's like, it's a little bit tough because it's very close to my heart and I build everything with it and I know all the details.

Speaker 2 But at some times also you have to let go and see what the next step is. And this is why also Freestyle Chess is helping me also to have a new focus and to do something

Speaker 2 in the next seven years.

Speaker 4 Do you build every company with an exit in mind at first?

Speaker 2 No, not at all. And quite the opposite,

Speaker 2 especially what the castle and the hotel is concerned. I built it as if it was my own home.
And so I never thought about any part of an investment. Does it have a return or whatever?

Speaker 2 Does it make sense? It makes sense. It has to make sense.
And I'm a little bit more like in the Sex and the City series.

Speaker 2 There's one scene when she said, I want to have my money where I can see it in my drawer.

Speaker 2 And I say, I want to have my money where I can see it, like in my village. I enter the village and said, wow, it's really amazing.
It's better than having zeros on the bank account, right?

Speaker 4 Yeah, because it's you can actually touch it, right? Yeah, and with the bank account, you're you actually lose money, yeah, inflation.

Speaker 2 And it's basically, yeah, you and also it's like even if you win money, it's basically you're adding zeros, you know.

Speaker 2 And first of all, you're dealing with a lot of zeros in people, you know, because people who are just focused on money and numbers are not really very people you want to really spend the time with.

Speaker 2 And then, in the end, I mean, measuring it against the lifespan and against death is like you can't take anything with you.

Speaker 2 Last shirt has no pockets, so you can't basically take anything with you. And inheriting is also, you know, I have of course kids, but

Speaker 2 inheriting is not the best life.

Speaker 2 My son, for example, is a professional techno DJ.

Speaker 2 You can look at my DBBD. He's a very successful guy.
And I'm very proud of him, what he did by himself.

Speaker 2 So if somebody just inherits money, you just take away the motivation for doing something on your own.

Speaker 2 It doesn't work, right? Inheritance. Yeah.
Yeah. It doesn't work.

Speaker 4 A lot of studies on how it actually harms.

Speaker 2 It harms, exactly. Yes.
It's like if, for example, I didn't inherit anything and I built everything from my own and I'm very happy.

Speaker 2 I mean, you go through so much struggle and so much, many problems when you do it.

Speaker 2 But when you're finally successful, I'm sure with you, the same with what you have built here, you are so proud of what you have been doing.

Speaker 2 And I don't want to take this away from my kids to do something on their own rather than to just, oh,

Speaker 2 I get this pile of money and then whatever. So it's like, yeah.

Speaker 4 I don't think I would have had the same work ethic, not even close, if I inherited money.

Speaker 2 Exactly, yeah.

Speaker 4 How has your relationship with money changed as you've gotten older?

Speaker 2 It's a very good question.

Speaker 2 It has never, never really changed in terms of being older. And also I was asked about, because

Speaker 2 when I started to deal with very, very rich people, when I did venture capital, you know, I take from billionaires and from a lot of people that also I... So

Speaker 2 how are rich people, you know, with money, you know, and without money? And I say it's very easy.

Speaker 2 like if you are if you have a a friendly person you know and he's rich he's a rich friendly person if you have an asshole and he's rich he's rich assholes like it doesn't really change the character it's basically um in enhances the character and no and and it multiply applies to character basically so all of the the characters come out more strongly when you have money because uh you know you you think maybe you know some people think that they are whatever unbeatable or whatever so it's like um and it's like anywhere in the world that if you if you look at a hundred people, how many people of these people do you really want to deal with like on the street?

Speaker 2 Like okay, maybe every every hundredth person you would like to interact with. And the same is like if you have rich people, you know, yeah, maybe you want to interact with one out of 100.

Speaker 2 Interestingly, I had

Speaker 2 a childhood, not childhood, but when I started my business when I was like was 20 or whatever, how old are you now? I'm 28. 28, yeah.
So I was in my twenties.

Speaker 2 I had my my hero, like we all have our heroes like in the business world. And so my my hero, I had a hero.

Speaker 2 And I said, you know, if there's one person in the life that I ever wanted to meet in person, you know, it's this one guy. And this guy just wrote me an email last week.
No way. Yeah.

Speaker 2 His name is Richard Branson. Whoa.
Yeah. And so he, because he was interested in what we're doing, and he might become, you know, involved somewhere in freestyle.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he's a chess player. Yeah, we have to still figure it out.
But definitely, maybe we do something on Necker Island, you know, maybe we'll do something somewhere else.

Speaker 2 But at least so, one of my little life goals was like, you know, having an interaction with Richard Branson happened, you know, by accident through the chess, right? Wow, who would have known, right?

Speaker 4 Who would have thought? Yeah, he loves chess. Yes, that's so cool.
Chess brings people together, that's why I love chess. Yeah, like you said earlier, it's an international sport.

Speaker 2 Yes, yes, that's so cool.

Speaker 4 Where can people watch the freestyle events? Is there a streaming site?

Speaker 2 Yes, yes. First of all, we have our own website called freestylechess.com, which of course is not so big, but you can follow everything.
And then on YouTube,

Speaker 2 chess.com, of course, is one of our partners. And we also have a starting partnership with ESPN.
I don't know whether they show some live streaming, but at least they have some content coming.

Speaker 2 And the Desone

Speaker 2 network. Wow.

Speaker 4 Crushing it. That's a lot of distribution.
Yes.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 2 And we are just a baby company. We started in February.
So

Speaker 2 you're coming out strong. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Yeah. I feel like you're really disrupting the space, honestly.

Speaker 2 Yes, that's the plan.

Speaker 4 And you're getting the influencers there. That's really smart.
Well, thanks for coming on, man. Anything else you want to close off with?

Speaker 2 No, I'm happy. I'm fine.

Speaker 2 Thank you for bringing me on here. And I saw that you had David also here before.

Speaker 2 And I know I just talked to Hans Niemann. He's happy to come as well if it makes time.
Awesome.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Well, thanks for coming. Check them out, guys.
We'll link everything below. I'll see you next time.
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