Brandon Fugal: Billionaire Owner of Skinwalker Ranch: “I Saw It With My Own Eyes” | DSH #1644

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Speaker 1 We live in a divinely constructed, intelligently designed reality. I was raised to believe that there are worlds of that number, that we're not alone in the universe, and that there is a plan.

Speaker 1 That there are no coincidences. Our consciousness, our collective consciousness is to a degree connected, and there's much to be learned.

Speaker 1 I think we're right now barely scratching the surface of understanding the nature of our own existence and the rules of engagement relative to our place in the universe.

Speaker 1 I just want all the answers. Everything happens for a reason.
Yeah. Good and bad.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I know a lot of people, something bad happens to them and they want to like make excuses, but I think it happens for a reason. Sure.
And I think that this

Speaker 1 mortal existence that we're all trying to survive, that we ultimately realize no one gets out alive.

Speaker 1 Okay, guys, we got Brandon here today. Season six is wrapping up.
I think by the time they see this, it'll be over. So thanks for joining us, man.
You bet. It's a pleasure being with you.

Speaker 1 Absolutely, man. And one of the top shows in the world right now, you said, right? It is.
We're the number one docuseries, reality docuseries on cable presently with the Secret of Skinwalker Ranch.

Speaker 1 Just wrapping up our sixth season and looking forward to unveiling some really exciting discoveries and insights.

Speaker 1 It's an interesting departure from my primary focus, which has been commercial real estate and other business endeavors. What a big change.
Yeah,

Speaker 1 it's the most exciting adventure right now going on in my life and a number of others. Did you expect all this when you bought it? No, I bought it as a skeptic.

Speaker 1 So I bought Skinwalker Ranch really as a skeptic. I did not believe there was anything real to the phenomena.

Speaker 1 I had grown very critical of any paranormal claims.

Speaker 1 even religious claims at that point in my life and acquired it fully expecting to debunk.

Speaker 3 I didn't think the pain from the shingles rash would affect simple everyday tasks like bathing, getting dressed, or even walking around.

Speaker 1 I was wrong.

Speaker 3 Though not everyone at risk will develop it, 99% of people over the age of 50 already have the virus that causes shingles and it could reactivate at any time.

Speaker 3 I developed it and the blistering rash lasted for weeks. Don't learn the hard way, like I did.
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Speaker 1 The claims that have been made for a very long time and instead ended up going from a skeptic to not a believer, but an experiencer. Wow.

Speaker 1 Seeing phenomena, seeing things in broad daylight with multiple witnesses at my side that defy any conventional. prosaic explanation.
That's incredible. It's a life-changing experience.

Speaker 1 And it is without question the most unique real estate project you could ever conceive conceive of.

Speaker 1 At the time, I thought I was just going to ultimately donate it to the Boy Scouts of America. I was in the scouting program growing up.

Speaker 1 And as an Eagle Scout, I thought this would be an incredible property. 512 acres sequestered in the center of the Uinta Basin, surrounded by thousands of acres of Native American tribal land

Speaker 1 with a strikingly beautiful landscape and backdrop.

Speaker 1 Old pioneer homesteads that are still standing, coupled with a Red Rock Mesa plateau and waterways that snake through the property, all add up to a very unusual landscape.

Speaker 1 You add to that the fact that this property, under my predecessor, Robert Bigelow, was part of a Pentagon-funded black budget program. Studying everything from the UFO phenomenon to

Speaker 1 bizarre cattle mutilations and other high strangeness only makes it that much more unique. Yeah.
What did Bigelow tell you when he sold you this property?

Speaker 1 He wouldn't say a whole lot other than, of course, the phenomena was real.

Speaker 1 He was turning his attention at the time to really leading the private space race, bought the space habitats program, the inflatables program from NASA, and was working with SpaceX, a very young SpaceX at the time, in

Speaker 1 really positioning to be the real estate developer for space, to put his space habitats up on the International Space Station, the lunar surface, and ultimately Mars has been his focus over the years.

Speaker 1 And I think even though Skinwalker Ranch was a very important part of his history, I think he was ready to close that chapter and pass the baton to another steward, if you will.

Speaker 1 I expressed my skepticism

Speaker 1 and we

Speaker 1 we developed a good relationship. I have great respect for Mr.
Bigelow. Nice.
He was a trailblazer, someone who is willing to take risks.

Speaker 1 I respect anyone who is willing to put their money and their reputation on the line, especially in service to frontier topics.

Speaker 1 There are very few people on the planet that are willing to put their money and resources and reputations on the line when it comes to certain topics. that

Speaker 1 many

Speaker 1 consider not only frontier science topics, but also fringe. Yeah.

Speaker 1 There's understandably a lot of skepticism.

Speaker 1 I was one, and I thought that just by simply using the scientific method, bringing in my own third-party experts, and some critical thinking and instrumentation, we would ultimately show that there was a natural, prosaic explanation for all that had been reported or claimed there for decades, if not millennia, and ultimately went from being a skeptic to not a believer, but an experiencer.

Speaker 1 And now, you know, the world is watching.

Speaker 1 We have a global audience that is watching the investigation unfold, that is showing that not only is the phenomena real, but with scientific data and instrumentation, we're documenting the phenomena.

Speaker 1 We're documenting the reality that our skies are being violated by craft. and objects of unknown origin.
There are certain things happening in our world that defy conventional explanation.

Speaker 1 I believe that we're just barely scratching the surface of understanding the nature of reality. Wow.
Sounds like a lot more seasons to come then. We'll see.

Speaker 1 Everything that we are discovering, we're presenting transparently to the public. Respect.
I don't really have any obligation. I really feel it's part of my stewardship to share the insights that

Speaker 1 are rendered there and our discoveries. We're all in this together, and I think it's the greatest science project of our time.

Speaker 1 And it's a fun departure from the typical business activities that I've been involved in for decades.

Speaker 1 Which discovery, I know there's been a lot, which one stands out to you the most at the moment?

Speaker 1 Repeatable electromagnetic anomalies, GPS malfunction and manipulation, coupled with

Speaker 1 the appearance of unidentified aerial phenomena that seems to attend many of the events.

Speaker 1 We're also utilizing LiDAR and other survey technologies that have repeatedly shown that there's something unusual going on in the environment. Wow, that is crazy.
So is that like a heat map?

Speaker 1 What is that? It's a scan, the property. It's a laser scan, but we use other technologies as well.
in service to understanding what is going on both above and below the property.

Speaker 1 It was funny when I acquired Skinwalker Ranch, one of the first landmarks on this really unique piece of property that

Speaker 1 I happened on with the security was what looks like a Masonic symbol etched on the sandstone face of the Mesa not far from what we call the ranch house or homestead one.

Speaker 1 The symbol, many people

Speaker 1 believe,

Speaker 1 is

Speaker 1 as above, so below. Wow.

Speaker 1 And that it denotes that there's something going on both above and below that location of significance as we found other ancient rock art and uh symbolism on the site it it only seems to point to a

Speaker 1 a very unique historic um

Speaker 1 uh i think mission to whatever has happened there for a long, long time. We have now through our archaeologists dated artifacts going back as far as 10,000 years.
Holy crap. Paleo.

Speaker 1 We have paleo points, grinding bulls, and other artifacts that have been excavated on site that speak to a very significant ancient history associated with this enigmatic piece of property.

Speaker 1 I wonder why they all concentrated in that specific region. We're getting to the bottom of it.
Oh, yeah. That's what I'm hoping to learn is why is this site so significant?

Speaker 1 On one hand, if you look at a topographical map of the Uinta Basin, which is this huge bull, you know, natural bull type of formation out in northeastern Utah, the property sits right in the dead center

Speaker 1 of

Speaker 1 this region. And that may have something to do with the unique nature of what has been observed there for generations.
That is fascinating. So you bought it in 16.

Speaker 1 When did it shift from skeptic to, you said experience? Yeah. So I bought it on April 1st, April Fool's Day of 2016.
Was that strategic or No,

Speaker 1 but there are no coincidences I've learned in life.

Speaker 1 And I went for six months without seeing anything unusual or feeling even anything unusual.

Speaker 1 I was flying in secretly on my helicopter, meeting with scientists, with my drone surveyors, security, and my on-site caretakers.

Speaker 1 personally not seeing anything that would

Speaker 1 that would seem unusual. I thought it was just a very beautiful piece of property that I was going to prove to be nothing more than that and ultimately use it for philanthropic purposes.

Speaker 1 My whole worldview changed on

Speaker 1 was October 14th, 2016 at 4 p.m.

Speaker 1 when

Speaker 1 hosting some visiting dignitaries and their security personnel, we experienced everything from equipment malfunction, rapid battery depletion with all of our smartphones from essentially a full charge to zero to one of the security personnel being rendered catatonic for a period of 10 minutes.

Speaker 1 And then when going back to the security trailer, the command center on site to retrieve our phones,

Speaker 1 to my surprise, one of the gentlemen in the back of this open-air Polaris Ranger that I was driving started yelling to stop the vehicle and was waving his arms up in the air.

Speaker 1 And I looked back and was wondering,

Speaker 1 what is he trying to draw our attention to? And as I brought

Speaker 1 the vehicle to a stop and looked right ahead where he was pointing, there was a 50-foot, 40, 50-foot long silver-grayish disc-like object about 100 feet above the Mesa, as clear as day, right in front of us, 4 o'clock in the afternoon.

Speaker 1 I recall seeing kind of a glint, kind of reflection off of one side because the sun had passed that side of the sky. And we were all sitting there in stunned silence.

Speaker 1 And within seconds, it changed position in the blink of an eye. It moved probably about 50 feet

Speaker 1 in a blink. You didn't even see a blur.
And then a few seconds later, it dropped down.

Speaker 1 to what appeared to be kind of a low hover above the mesa and then it darted a few seconds later to the right almost as if it was scanning the environment or even us and then in a moment it was gone.

Speaker 1 The whole event lasted 20 seconds, was undeniable, witnessed not just by myself, but other credible observers. And it immediately followed the anomalies that I mentioned.

Speaker 1 And it changed me from being a skeptic to an experiencer. And from that moment forward,

Speaker 1 I

Speaker 1 have been hell-bent on getting the answers, documenting the reality of what I know to be happening on that property and above that property and making it available to the public. Now,

Speaker 1 I never really had a desire to go public with my identity as the owner. In fact, I had everyone signed off on non-disclosure agreements and confidentiality agreements for years.

Speaker 1 Even after that experience, I did not want my identity ever associated with these topics in the public domain.

Speaker 1 I didn't want them, you know, my research and funding and involvement in Skinwalker Ranch and these topics to in any way undermine or distract from my business activities.

Speaker 1 As chairman of Collier's Intermountain Operation,

Speaker 1 I have the privilege of leading the largest commercial real estate enterprise in the region.

Speaker 1 And we're the fastest growing of the big three globally,

Speaker 1 represent so many

Speaker 1 major companies, institutions. I just didn't want those worlds to collide or anything to be called into question.

Speaker 1 And so I kept my identity secret as the owner for a period of time until the History Channel, after a year of persisting every week with producers to get an audience with whoever the owner was, they didn't know who it was.

Speaker 1 There was wild speculation online. Some people thought it was Elon Musk.
Others thought it was Tony Robbins, the motivational

Speaker 1 speaker.

Speaker 1 And it was funny,

Speaker 1 after about a year, I finally took a meeting with History Channel executives that flew in. And

Speaker 1 I told them, I said, look, I would be open to having a discussion, but I have no desire to allow cameras and any public access to this property.

Speaker 1 It is the most scientifically studied paranormal hotspot on the planet and has been under armed guarded surveillance since 1996 for a reason. There is danger there.

Speaker 1 There have been unfortunate, very negative incidents, and it is an ongoing scientific investigation. Well,

Speaker 1 the producers pointed out the fact that

Speaker 1 for me to turn away the opportunity to have the finest documentary film professionals on the planet

Speaker 1 there to document the reality of the investigation that I've been privately funding for years on my own

Speaker 1 be a huge missed opportunity.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 it made logical sense. Why not have

Speaker 1 a team, an army of documentary film professionals there to document

Speaker 1 every

Speaker 1 detail of the ongoing scientific research, experiments, and investigation? on this unique piece of property that had been part of a Pentagon-funded black budget program between 2008 and 2013.

Speaker 1 So I stated that I would be willing to look at allowing them to come document it and have access, but I had conditions. I said, number one,

Speaker 1 I can't allow anything to be faked, manipulated, or contrived. I don't want to be part of some ghost hunters effort.

Speaker 1 This is a serious scientific investigation. I don't want my integrity or my reputation questioned as a result.
Number two, you're going to use my team.

Speaker 1 The team of professionals professionals that I'd assembled, many of which I've known my whole life. My head of security dragon,

Speaker 1 someone that I've been dear friends with since 19. Jim Morse, who is my community liaison, was my first big client in commercial real estate.

Speaker 1 He's the developer of a project called the Towers at Southtown, not far from this studio. Nice.
Just 10 minutes from here off 106 South.

Speaker 1 And a host of others. Eric Bard, our chief scientist and principal investigator, I've worked with since 2010.

Speaker 1 I did not want to have a Hollywood casting call take place to sensationalize this. I wanted it to be a sober

Speaker 1 documentary record of what is happening. And I also asked that

Speaker 1 my reputation be held intact and that

Speaker 1 I keep my identity confidential and private. They granted me everything but that.
They said, look,

Speaker 1 the only way for this to be taken seriously by the general public is if you

Speaker 1 come forward

Speaker 1 because this is your story, Brandon Fugle. This is your team.
This is your journey from being a skeptic to an experiencer.

Speaker 1 And I'll say that the producer, Jedi mind-tricked me. quite masterfully into

Speaker 1 agreeing to do the deal. So the rest is history.

Speaker 1 We seen this investigation evolve over the course of the last years.

Speaker 1 This season

Speaker 1 has revealed some of, I think, the most stunning discoveries yet relative to what is happening, what is buried on that property, and the nature of the strange phenomena that has been documented.

Speaker 1 And now we're bringing it to the public.

Speaker 1 You said earlier there's danger there. Is that recent danger, or are you talking about prior events on Skin Water? No, ongoing.

Speaker 1 So, we've had numerous professionals and participants end up in the hospital. Holy crap! Even the emergency room with life-threatening, unexplained illness, injuries.

Speaker 1 We've had cardiac events on site that have occurred in tandem with some of the

Speaker 1 digging activity and exploring and trying to get the answers relative to what is potentially on the ranch that is behind some of the high-strangeness.

Speaker 1 And I think it's important to note that the ranch

Speaker 1 appears to amplify intention, consciousness,

Speaker 1 if you will. So if you bring a spirit of contention with you to the property, you bring an adversarial nature, I've seen and I have data demonstrating that those who bring that type of intention

Speaker 1 or attitude most often end up having very negative experiences. Wow.

Speaker 1 I advise everyone who enters, regardless of their religious belief system.

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Speaker 1 I don't care what their background or their religious

Speaker 1 belief system or ideology is. I tell them you need to prepare yourself.

Speaker 1 Spiritually, consciously, enter with a spirit of reverence and humility, for we are engaging phenomena that we do not understand.

Speaker 1 And there are malevolent forces, as demonstrated by the events that have unfolded. And also, I think there are benevolent or even benign, neutral

Speaker 1 forces at work on the ranch that are displaying advanced physics capabilities. and command over space, time, and even consciousness itself.

Speaker 1 Wow. Yeah, I was just going to ask you, was there any similarities between those who got sick, but it sounds like it's their intention, right? Well,

Speaker 1 most often. There seems to be

Speaker 1 a correlation behind intent or the attitude of those who are engaging. I think if they're perceived to be a threat by whatever phenomena, whatever intelligence that we're interacting with,

Speaker 1 we've seen

Speaker 1 repeated

Speaker 1 data and incidents that point to that.

Speaker 1 People often ask me, I get interviewed all the time for various publications and media where

Speaker 1 they

Speaker 1 understandably ask, Brandon Fugle,

Speaker 1 is it

Speaker 1 aliens?

Speaker 1 Are you seeing evidence that there are beings from other worlds that are visiting this property? Is it alien visitation?

Speaker 1 Or is it interdimensional or multi-dimensional, even time travelers that could be behind this? Or is it more spiritual in origin? Is it angels and demons?

Speaker 1 And I would say that

Speaker 1 based on the evidence, the data

Speaker 1 that has been assembled to date,

Speaker 1 I would say it's D, all the above.

Speaker 1 What we're,

Speaker 1 I think, witnessing and documenting is a diversity of

Speaker 1 origins and agendas associated with the activity at Skinwalker Ranch. That's fascinating.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 it's quite a unique opportunity. I consider it a privilege to be the steward of this property.

Speaker 1 I don't have any partners.

Speaker 1 I've been

Speaker 1 moving through this process of discovery

Speaker 1 and we're trying to get the answers. I'm lucky I have the resources to be able to

Speaker 1 study the property more dynamically than anyone in the private sector has ever tackled.

Speaker 1 You're definitely the right guy for the job.

Speaker 1 So I'm very fortunate.

Speaker 1 I have a brother who is a skilled pilot, arguably the most qualified aviator in the region who pilots the helicopter. My helicopter and jet.
We use aircraft and aviation resources.

Speaker 1 uh to to study the property i also use it primarily for my commercial real estate business. I mean,

Speaker 1 we use aviation to assist the companies and the entrepreneurs that we have the privilege of representing.

Speaker 1 Countless headquarters here in Utah and what we call Silicon Slopes, which is our growing dynamic tech community,

Speaker 1 in many cases,

Speaker 1 have been secured and identified using the helicopter and aviation assets as a key part of the site selection process.

Speaker 1 Well done. Have you guys seen anything from up on the helicopter?

Speaker 1 Yes, I have. In fact, we've had a few incidents and

Speaker 1 occasions where

Speaker 1 unidentified flying objects or UAP, unidentified aerial phenomena has been observed from the helicopter. In fact, some of our most stunning footage

Speaker 1 capturing an object that descended from high up in the sky, dropped down, disappeared into the far region of the Mesa, and then exited right below the helicopter.

Speaker 1 Was caught on GoPro cameras that were situated on the helicopter, and

Speaker 1 we were fortunate to be using it in service to documenting what we were doing that day. It makes you wonder since there's so much UFO activity there, if it's a portal.

Speaker 1 Yes, there is a lot of speculation that we may be dealing with portals,

Speaker 1 wormholes,

Speaker 1 some type of interstellar or interdimensional highway, a stargate.

Speaker 1 Who knows? There's any number of theories and speculative

Speaker 1 directions that the team of scientists and

Speaker 1 researchers have taken. You said time travel earlier.
What makes you believe that's a possibility, I guess? Well, we've seen time dilation on the property. We've seen through a series of experiments

Speaker 1 with

Speaker 1 drones, with instrumented drones and GPS, that time does not operate

Speaker 1 reliably on the property. We see that there have been shifts in the data and

Speaker 1 the clocks, if you will, that have been involved with a lot of the research. That is interesting.
Well, they're challenging time right now.

Speaker 1 They're saying it might not even be linear as people were taught. Sure.
Isn't that crazy?

Speaker 1 Nothing's

Speaker 1 to me anymore.

Speaker 1 I love how open you are all this.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I used to think it was all bullshit.

Speaker 1 And now I'm humbled and

Speaker 1 I feel like the older I get, the less I know. Wow.

Speaker 1 It has been incredibly humbling

Speaker 1 to be involved with

Speaker 1 this endeavor. And it has been

Speaker 1 an unexpected turn

Speaker 1 in

Speaker 1 my path,

Speaker 1 a very unconventional pursuit. Even though it only occupies maybe 5% of my overall time and bandwidth, it is

Speaker 1 perhaps the highest profile. It's what you're known for these days, right? Yeah, we're fortunate to have a global audience, a lot of people that are following our research and investigation.
And so

Speaker 1 I have to always keep that in mind.

Speaker 1 This is important, but I also keep myself grounded with my commercial real estate practice.

Speaker 1 I have the privilege of representing hundreds of projects along the Wasatch front, a number of national and global client assignments. And

Speaker 1 those keep me grounded

Speaker 1 in the physical reality and the more conventional reality, because I think it would be very, very easy to lose one's grip on

Speaker 1 reality and

Speaker 1 I think be distracted, to put it mildly. No, it's a valid point because you see people on both sides, they go too far down one route, whether it's the materialistic route or the spiritual route.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's very easy to become obsessed. I mean, the

Speaker 1 community that follows these topics,

Speaker 1 it's a very diverse community.

Speaker 1 A lot of very

Speaker 1 enthusiastic

Speaker 1 observers. Yeah, I think a lot of people want to be part of history, right? They want to see what can happen here.
Yeah, and we're all in this together. I mean, we're all connected.

Speaker 1 I believe in that. I think that

Speaker 1 in addition to there being no coincidences, I think our consciousness, our collective consciousness is to a degree connected and

Speaker 1 there is much to be learned. I think we're right now barely scratching the surface of understanding the nature of our own existence and the rules of engagement relative to our place in the universe.

Speaker 1 I just want all the answers. Yeah, hopefully.
And I want to share them with everyone else because I truly believe that we are all in this together. Yeah, I don't believe in coincidences either.

Speaker 1 No, I think everything happens for a reason. Yeah.
Good and bad. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I know a lot of people, something bad happens to to them and they want to like make excuses, but I think it happens for a reason. Sure.
And I think that this

Speaker 1 mortal existence that we're all trying to

Speaker 1 survive, that we ultimately realize

Speaker 1 no one gets out alive.

Speaker 1 Just people trying.

Speaker 1 I know.

Speaker 1 We know you have mutual friends

Speaker 1 that are

Speaker 1 focused on life extension and more power to them. I hope that they unlock the secrets of immortality.
I don't want to live forever. No,

Speaker 1 only if I can maintain my quality of life. Right, right.
But even then,

Speaker 1 would you actually want it, though? Like, if you stayed the same age right now for eternity, would you want that?

Speaker 1 I'd probably want to be a little younger.

Speaker 1 But hell yeah. I mean,

Speaker 1 you want to live forever? Yeah.

Speaker 1 I grew up. One of my favorite movies growing up is Highlander.
You ever seen Highlander? I haven't seen that one. What the?

Speaker 1 I'm 28. Have you seen Highlander? Yeah.
I'm 28. That sounds like an older movie.
You are so young. Yeah, it's from the 80s.
You know, all really good music. Stop

Speaker 1 pop culture. I listen to 80s music.
So there's a movie. You need to check it out.

Speaker 1 My wife gives me crap about it because she doesn't share the same

Speaker 1 appreciation for it, but it's called Highlander and ELT. It's about

Speaker 1 watching this podcast. If you know, you know.
Highlander. They're remaking it right now with Henry Cavill.
Oh, so I'll watch that one. Well, no.
No way. No.
Go back to the original one. Okay.

Speaker 1 It's a classic. And you'll know why I'm kind of.
They're topics of immortality. Immortality plays a central role in this fantasy sci-fi adventure.

Speaker 1 So my whole thing is like, I believe in reincarnation. Okay.
So that's why I don't want to live forever. I think we're meant to live this life out and then we have another life.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 People label it differently. Some people call it multiple mortal probations.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Reincarnation, many lives.

Speaker 1 There are many people, of course, that speculate that we're living countless different lives

Speaker 1 right now

Speaker 1 in different dimensions of reality. And

Speaker 1 there are a number of books that fiction and also non-fiction that speculate on the nature of reality and our existence.

Speaker 1 I believe what we're seeing at Skinwalker Ranch and what we're documenting

Speaker 1 to some degree attests to the fact that we live in a divinely constructed, intelligently designed reality.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 that's exciting. Interesting.
I find that inspiring.

Speaker 1 You can either look at it optimistically or you can say, well, does that mean we're living in a cosmic zoo?

Speaker 1 Are we in a prison planet?

Speaker 1 Some people speculate that

Speaker 1 there are any number of

Speaker 1 frameworks to what we're experiencing right now. Yeah, because we're a low-density planet, so they call it a prison planet.
I've heard that.

Speaker 1 So when you say divinely constructed reality, what do you mean by that? We live in a divinely constructed, intelligently designed reality.

Speaker 1 I was raised to believe that there are worlds of that number, that we're not alone in the universe, and that there is a plan, that there are no coincidences,

Speaker 1 that we existed before this

Speaker 1 life, before mortality as we know it, and will exist eternally. And one of the greatest challenges

Speaker 1 is

Speaker 1 proving that scientifically.

Speaker 1 not just by faith or religious dogma alone, but proving

Speaker 1 with

Speaker 1 critical thinking and the scientific method that there is more to our reality, that there is

Speaker 1 more to the nature of consciousness, our souls, spirits, whatever label or taxonomy that you wish to apply.

Speaker 1 And I think it's exciting to see

Speaker 1 patterns emerge, not only in nature, but in the way that that society operates. And I think there are undeniable clues out there that point to the fact that we do live in

Speaker 1 an intelligently designed

Speaker 1 sphere, that

Speaker 1 there is some divine intelligent design and force behind it all. And

Speaker 1 understanding the physics behind that, how that works,

Speaker 1 is

Speaker 1 it's...

Speaker 1 It's pretty fun to speculate on. And now with quantum physics emerging, it's going to be interesting to see what they can prove, right? Well, you have string theory, M-theory,

Speaker 1 a number of real leading thinkers in physics that are trying to come up with a unified

Speaker 1 theory

Speaker 1 that brings it all together. Eric Weinstein, who is one of my favorite

Speaker 1 physics experts, one of the greatest thinkers on the planet right now, is trying to, I think, advance

Speaker 1 new approaches to

Speaker 1 resolving the disparity between quantum and relativity. And I think all of that

Speaker 1 plays into these topics. I think it's all interconnected.

Speaker 1 Are you familiar with this guy named Carl Crusher?

Speaker 1 Yeah. So he's been on the show.

Speaker 1 Carl is an enthusiast. He's in the field.
It's been fun to watch some of his expeditions. Yeah, he's been on the show.
He's been enthusiastic. Yeah, he's talking about like remote view.

Speaker 1 Do you believe in remote viewing at all? I know it's a controversial. Do I know? I know it's real.
Oh, you know. So I don't, I, no, I don't believe in it.
I know that remote viewing is real.

Speaker 1 Psychic functioning is a reality.

Speaker 1 A number of the science advisors that I have consulted with over the years were involved with the classified programs involving the CIA,

Speaker 1 you know, the Pentagon.

Speaker 1 I was a skeptic. Again,

Speaker 1 a decade ago, I didn't believe any of this. If you would have asked me, do you believe that there's any validity to remote viewing, psychic functioning, UFOs, Bigfoot, whatever? Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's pretty cool. Angels, demons, I would have told you that

Speaker 1 I have a hard time believing that there is any reality to those things. Yeah.
Some of his stories were just nuts.

Speaker 1 When he was on the show just talking about remote viewing at Skin Walker, it was like crazy.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we've engaged

Speaker 1 gifted intuitives in service to

Speaker 1 documenting and taking a scientific approach to either debunking, disproving, or validating those claims. And I've found that there is compelling evidence.
In fact,

Speaker 1 I'm certain. I've watched it play out.
I have data.

Speaker 1 My chief scientist and principal investigator has been engaged by me to conduct research and experiments in the realm of remote viewing. And much to both of our surprise, because

Speaker 1 he was very skeptical as well.

Speaker 1 We've seen data that proves that

Speaker 1 it's real. Wow.
I don't think anyone fully understands how it operates or the mechanism or the rules, the physics behind it.

Speaker 1 There are a number of theories, but yeah. I mean, I know it's real personally.
I know people that went to Monroe Institute and learned how to do it, and they've proven it to me. I know there's CIA

Speaker 1 operations about it. You bet.
Yeah, it's legit. So have you brought psychics on site too, you mentioned? We have.
What have they kind of taken away from those?

Speaker 1 There have been some interesting observations.

Speaker 1 I've brought Native American shaman, spiritual leaders.

Speaker 1 We brought a rabbi, a world-renowned rabbi, out to the property to conduct experiments and research with the team that ended up yielding shocking results and changes in the environment associated with his visit.

Speaker 1 Wow. And simply, you know,

Speaker 1 giving

Speaker 1 a prayer, a rabbitical chant prayer,

Speaker 1 ended up resulting in changing the environment. It all played out on our docuseries.
I think it was in season two, Rabbi Ariel's a doc. So

Speaker 1 I think engaging a diversity of talented people, of professionals, researchers in service to getting the answers is an important part of my stewardship.

Speaker 1 I do believe we try

Speaker 1 to hold up as paramount the scientific method and

Speaker 1 bringing credentialed third-party experts to the table relative to LIDAR,

Speaker 1 ground-penetrating radar studies, environmental testing.

Speaker 1 I mean, I have the former executive director of the International Space Station National Laboratory, who's now CEO of Omnitech, Jim Royston, and his chief scientist, Sam DeRizzo.

Speaker 1 They are on site almost full-time for months of the year.

Speaker 1 General Lance Lord, who's a retired four-star general and a former head of Air Force Space Command, is a trusted advisor and

Speaker 1 consultant with respect to what is happening on the property and a host of others that

Speaker 1 have helped us get the answers and are actively engaged putting their resources on the line, their reputations in service to getting to the bottom of what has happened. Well done, man.

Speaker 1 You've got the Avengers. Yeah, we're trying.
I mean,

Speaker 1 we're constantly working to improve. Again, it is a humbling learning process.

Speaker 1 I never would have imagined that this would play out the way it has. People often ask,

Speaker 1 you know, if

Speaker 1 we're all going down the rabbit hole, if it feels like we're all falling down the rabbit hole, and I tell people I own the rabbit hole.

Speaker 1 I love that answer.

Speaker 1 I mean, you're providing legitimacy. It's not like you're a conspiracy theorist.
No. And I have everything to lose.
I haven't taken a penny relative to this effort. You've lost money, probably, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 I have invested more than any private individual on the planet over the last decade into frontier science topics and getting the answers.

Speaker 1 I've donated the proceeds that would have been due to me through the television docuseries to

Speaker 1 philanthropic priorities. and also pour it right back into the instrument instrumentation and the scientific platforms.
So I have yet to even buy myself a hamburger for the proceeds.

Speaker 1 Because I don't want anyone questioning my integrity or my motive. I have zero profit motive.
Wow.

Speaker 1 Zero motive to sensationalize these topics, to try to conjure up anything that is other than the absolute truth.

Speaker 1 That's incredible because a lot of these paranormal investigations, they make a living off the show. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 And I hear, even on social media, even with that disclaimer, even with me pointing that out, and the fact that anyone who does their due diligence on me knows that I don't need the series.

Speaker 1 The series, this investigation is a liability.

Speaker 1 It's a liability. It costs me more reputationally and financially

Speaker 1 and is a deviation from those efforts that actually pay the bills.

Speaker 1 But I get no end of criticism at times on social media from people saying, oh, you're a grifter. I didn't even know what the hell that term was.
And I love the keyboard warriors who

Speaker 1 who are happy to sit behind their sock puppet anonymous accounts and throw stones from the peanut gallery

Speaker 1 um

Speaker 1 if people under only knew i mean we were putting so much on the line yeah and making it available to the public my predecessor didn't make anything available to the public in fact he didn't make it available to me when i bought the ranch i bought it with nothing.

Speaker 1 He would not turn over any of the data, both because of its confidentiality, but also it was part of a classified research study. And I respected that.
Even though I was hopeful, I respected

Speaker 1 his request to retain that. And we're doing the opposite.
We're making this available to the public and engaging the public like never before.

Speaker 1 There's never been an endeavor like this that has been more transparent, more open, more engaged than Skinwalker Ranch. Anytime you do something new and disruptive, people are going to hate.
Mr.

Speaker 1 Beast gets hate for saving kids' lives. Right.
And he's like literally donating money to save people's lives, and he gets hate on social media.

Speaker 1 If you're in the public eye,

Speaker 1 you open yourself up to criticism. And I understand that.

Speaker 1 I do respect the skepticism. There are a lot of con artists.
There's a lot of BS.

Speaker 1 There is a lot of noise. in this space.

Speaker 1 Being able to separate the signal from the noise,

Speaker 1 to separate that which is legitimate, which is real from that which is

Speaker 1 either fraud

Speaker 1 or exaggerated or

Speaker 1 even misunderstood.

Speaker 1 I think most of

Speaker 1 those things that happen that people ascribe to being paranormal or strange phenomena,

Speaker 1 I think 90, 95%

Speaker 1 have a natural explanation

Speaker 1 if people just apply critical thinking and scientific reasoning and the scientific method.

Speaker 1 One of my favorite magazines, I have two magazines I read every month

Speaker 1 that are at the top of my list when I go to Barnes ⁇ Noble. And that is Skeptical Inquirer and Skeptic Magazine.
And it's because I do value critical thinking.

Speaker 1 And I often totally agree with the conclusions reached in those articles. I appreciate the

Speaker 1 fine-tuned approach taken. And I think that we need to be grounded.
We always need to question. There is nothing wrong with questioning assumptions, with questioning claims.

Speaker 1 And I hope to continue to back it up with reality. I love it, man.
Well, Brandon, where can people watch the show and support you? Yeah. It's a privilege to be with you.

Speaker 1 Any final questions, ask me anything. I don't care.

Speaker 1 We went through a lot. I watched your four-hour podcast with Sean Ryan.
Well done, man. I love Sean.
Yeah. Sean's a beast.
But

Speaker 1 yeah, I guess let people know where they could find you, support you, and everything. Yeah, we have a website for our ranch research project.

Speaker 1 In fact, there is a 24-hour live stream that you can access via our Insider portal. It's at www.skinwalker-ranch.com.
That's skinwalker-ranch.com. You can find me easily on Instagram at Brandon Fugal.

Speaker 1 X,

Speaker 1 same thing at Brandon Fugle. I'm also on LinkedIn for those of you who use that platform.
Very active across all of those platforms. Be patient with me.

Speaker 1 I'm receiving so many messages, thousands, even tens of thousands of messages across all platforms. It is difficult to try to engage, to respond.
But I'm doing my best at the same time, still

Speaker 1 trying to lead the commercial real estate market and representing hundreds of landmark projects. So I'm trying to live 10 lifetimes at once, I think.
Yeah, busy man. So thanks for your time, man.

Speaker 1 That was a fun episode. It's a pleasure being with you.
Thank you. Thank you, Makosh.
Peace.

Speaker 1 I hope you guys are enjoying the show.

Speaker 4 Please don't forget to like and subscribe. It helps the show a lot with the algorithm.
Thank you.