Brock Pierce: Crypto Is Back: Government Joins the Movement | DSH #1424

On like redemption and second chances.

And like, I mean, there's so many amazing things that make us special.

Yeah.

But something's wrong there.

And so the idea is to take it from 20% to 10%.

You know, very similar to like what Doge was doing in trying to find efficiency.

You know, how do we use AI and tools to start figuring out, you know, how do we bring cut that number in half?

Okay, guys, Brock Pierce here with an amazing outfit in Bitcoin Conference Week.

How are you doing, my man?

Rocking out.

Let's go.

Did you talk at the conference this year?

I've done tons and tons of things, multiple talks, but the big one was

organizing

for Vivek Ramaswamy and his run for Ohio governor.

And then yesterday was crazy.

We had the mayor of New York City.

Yeah.

Oh, wow.

Well, so Vice President J.D.

Vance did the opening speech at the conference yesterday.

His last statement is like,

we got to keep on fighting.

This isn't over.

Like now that this community has galvanized and it's no longer suffering from political apathy and non-participation, but is utilizing its power, as I like to say.

The sleeping giant is awake.

We just have to stay awake.

Can't be falling asleep.

The only major major election in 2025 is the mayor of New York City.

That's our big election this year, right?

And it can be a national race.

And so,

yeah, Eric Adams came in and made also an incredible speech following Vice President Vance,

talking about how New York City has to be the crypto capital of the world.

So we've got a crypto president.

We've got a crypto mayor.

You know, let's keep this rolling.

And so,

you know, was having to work with the mayor pretty much 24 hours yesterday.

I love that.

In addition to all the other things I do.

Yeah.

Now we filmed a TV show yesterday, Crypto Knights, which just came out on Amazon Prime.

Nice.

It's,

you know, Web3 projects, crypto projects come in and present to the Knights, kind of like I wouldn't call it a shark tank, but that's a format everybody knows.

Yeah, that's cool, man.

You're doing a lot of stuff.

Yeah, this does seem to be the first administration that is pro-crypto, though, right, since you've been involved.

Yeah, I mean, certainly.

We've never had anything like it.

And that's the main thing that I said to everybody.

It's like, wow.

It's a sign we've won, at least for now.

Yeah.

Is it like a surreal feeling for you, like to see this?

Because you've been battling for so many years for this.

It is.

I mean, everybody knows about the lawfare issues and, you know, probably heard of ChokePoint 2.0.

Vice President Vance said ChokePoint 2.0 is dead.

But anybody that's in crypto has probably had their bank accounts closed, maybe been fully debanked.

I got banked.

Anybody that's a high-profile person

likely had

an investigation from government, potentially a charge from a regulator.

The pioneers really took arrows,

and

for now, we're on the other side of that.

We now have a government working with us.

It's like we've had, it's not just headwind, it's arrows and bullets.

Like

we've been under attack,

despite not breaking any law.

I mean, those that were law-abiding were being attacked.

And so

it's a different world.

It's like going from day to night to day.

Yeah.

You know, I think we're going to look back on March 7th, you know, the day that they had the White House crypto summit as like

the BC,

AC, you know, before crypto, after crypto, or Bitcoin.

Like, I think it's the second most important date in our industry's history.

You know, January 3rd, 2009, the launch of the Bitcoin network, I'd say is number one.

And I think March 7th is like, that was the turning point.

Wow.

Where we're no longer fighting.

You know, we're still the same amount of effort, but now we're fighting to thrive rather than fight to survive.

And yeah, it's so comforting.

It's like, wow.

And I don't think everyone's fully realized how big of a shift this is.

The banks are no longer trying to cancel our accounts.

You know, the Department of Justice isn't looking after everybody.

They've been, you know, the task force has been assigned to terrorism something more important than stopping innovation right

um you know the regulators are now figuring out how to give us regulatory clarity so that we understand what the rules are rather than operating in you know a gary gensler world of complete ambiguity whatever i want like

what a change like uh they're no longer against us they're working with us and so it's just uh it's a relief yeah you know i spent six months before i started publicly working in the space going.

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If I do this, I could get killed, could end up in jail.

You know, certainly the media is likely going to tar and feather me.

You know, am I willing to do that?

And

anyone that was a pioneer in this business, whether they knew it or not, you know, took those risks.

I did it knowingly.

I'm not naive.

You know, and this is a big commitment.

And so, you know, we're on the other side of that now.

Yeah, you're right, though.

There were lives lost to get to where we're at right now.

No question.

A lot of early adopters of crypto are no longer here.

Yeah, no, it was a, but that's welcome to being a pioneer, you know, whatever industry it was.

Yeah.

No, good point.

You know, I mean, that's the risks, you know, and the life we lead as disruptors.

Yeah.

What do you think the next opponent, the next battle is now that government's on the side of the crypto community?

Sensible regulation, right?

Now we have to work with government to make sure that we get good regulation, right?

We're here to protect consumers.

We're here to protect the American people.

We want to stop scammers and we want ofact lists.

No one's trying to have crypto be a tool to fund terrorism.

Nobody wants that.

So how do we make sure that we get regulation that accomplishes the goal, but without stifling innovation?

And the only way that happens is if you're in the room, you have to show up.

And so, you know, it's why I'm in DC

so often and it's why I spend so much time on the road dealing with the world's governments to, you know, help them understand

what it is, how it works, and how do we continue to allow innovation to flourish while protecting the people.

Yeah.

I was at your school in D.C.

and there's a lot of innovation there, the people I met.

And well done, man.

You're making some moves in D.C.

Yep.

I've been at it for about 10 years now.

That's how we met Tiffany, who set this up, and she's blowing up now.

So when you collect a bunch of masterminds in one room, you know, Mar-a-Lago does a good job at that too.

Doing a phenomenal job right now.

I mean, very different than the last term.

You couldn't talk the last term.

You couldn't meet anyone in person, right?

Yeah.

If you wanted to meet the president, no one's answering that request.

Yeah.

So it's,

yeah, it's, we've come a long way.

Like, I mean,

uh,

just, I'm so grateful.

Yeah.

I'm so happy for, you know, all of us, you know, we get to focus on what matters now versus operating in a

fear mindset

where before doing anything good, you got to think through all the game theory and, you know, what are the, you know, now it's just like build, baby, build.

Yeah.

Like, like, let's build great innovation without fear, knowing that your government is behind you and wants it to happen, you know, and engage in the conversation.

Like it's a, it's a whole new world.

And I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm so grateful.

It's like.

It's uh, we've come a long ways.

Yeah.

And all of the great people that, you know, sacrificed and took these risks to get us here.

Thank you.

I couldn't believe how many people were at the event yesterday.

It was my first Bitcoin conference.

Yeah, like 30,000 people is the number I heard.

Yeah.

I mean, when you went to these early on years ago, there was probably a couple hundred people, right?

Yeah, I was just doing an interview with the Wall Street Journal, and the journalist was like,

You know, so when was your first conference?

I go, I was the first one.

You mean this is your first one?

No, the first one.

So I don't know how many.

Probably you could hundreds and i mean i've done five this month damn that's nuts now it's a worldwide thing too i'm seeing these events in other countries oh yeah it's all over the world i i say i'm you know i'm back on the conference circus i mean circuit

and we host an event at every single one of them i mean we held five conferences ourself this month geez it's a lot of

a lot of work but i mean how amazing it is.

I mean, the New York City Crypto Summit on May 20th at Gracie Mansion.

Again, I mean, like,

we've come a long ways.

Yeah.

You know, that it's, you know, we're, we're finally working with our government.

And that was, you know, one of the questions people asked is, well, isn't that what this was not about that?

I go, yes, it was.

It always was.

This is called We've Evolved all the way to the point that where the government was fighting us and not fairly, improperly.

So now they're working with us.

That's the goal.

We're trying to win together, right?

The goal is to come together to build consensus, right?

We don't want to be at war.

We want to be at peace.

And we want to be working with those that have, you know, shared goals, right?

And crypto is really built upon the principles of the United States in so many ways.

And so there's no better home for it.

You know, most of the innovation came from here.

And we were, I mean, everyone had to flee New York, you know, with Cuomo's Bit license, you know, from Ben Loski.

you know, I mean, effectively was tearing down the empire, you know, the financial capital of the world, preventing it from participating in the future of finance.

Thank that's changed now, you know, and that's just now.

You know, Americans had to leave the country.

You know, so many of our best and brightest left to go build elsewhere.

And if they didn't leave, they certainly incorporated elsewhere.

Very few crypto companies were incorporating in the U.S.

Almost everyone went abroad.

Is that what we want?

We want to push innovation away and the trillions of dollars of wealth that's been created?

Or do we want to see the American people prosper?

And do we want to see these businesses built in the U.S.?

Do we want to see these projects built in the U.S.?

Do we want to see that enterprise value accrue to the U.S.?

Do we want to see those jobs in the U.S.?

I think the answer is absolutely.

And we finally have, that's what's changed.

Like,

we're all, we're all rowing on this, you know, we're all on the same team finally.

Crypto's back, baby.

It's back in its bold.

Bitcoin's at all-time highs.

Let's go.

Michael Saylor is going to go down as the the greatest investor of all time, it looks like.

It's looking pretty good.

As I like to say now,

the ICO is now the IPO.

We're now like also capital markets.

I mean, like, you know, these Bitcoin treasury strategies.

I mean,

we're talking about Bit bonds now, bond issuances.

I mean, it's like Bitcoin strategic reserves.

governments having Fort Knox, digital Fort Knox.

I mean,

wow.

Crazy talk.

Talk about a flippening.

Yeah.

I mean,

that's called flipping government.

Yeah.

I prefer an ICO over an IPO.

By the time it hits the IPO, the valuation is already inflated.

ICO, at least you have a fair shot of getting any good value.

MasterCoin, we were the first ICO.

We built that stuff back in the spring and summer of 2013.

Wow.

I was very early for an ICO.

Well, we were the first one.

That is crazy.

We were one of the first three layer twos on Bitcoin.

You had colored coins, counterparty, and master coin.

Damn.

So, yeah, the layer two discussions have have been going on longer also than people think.

Well done.

What layer are they on now?

They just keep making more, right?

Well, things go through cycles, you know, right?

An idea emerges.

Everybody pushes forward.

It's usually too early.

As I like to say, the second mouse usually gets the cheese.

Yeah.

Back to being the pioneers.

Take the arrows and usually not the reward.

Yeah.

But,

you know, we go, we go through these cycles.

And so,

you know, the ICOs came back again.

But then, you know, what happened is people were giving too much money without the right governance and controls and systems in place.

And so a lot of projects just didn't have the right people present and the right control systems.

Then they came back, you know, with

the exchanges effectively underwriting them.

So at least there was some diligence, you know, that was done.

And then launch pads have, you know, helped do that, you know, where, you know, there's enough, you know, battle testing prior to, you know, the market.

you know, being invited to participate.

So with each cycle, we get smarter.

We build back better.

I hope you guys are enjoying the show.

Please don't forget to like and subscribe.

It helps the show a lot with the algorithm.

Thank you.

And

rinse and repeat.

Yes, sir.

You believe in the four-year cycle?

That's the one I feel like most people know about.

Yeah, that's what it's, you know, that's generally what we've been seeing.

Yeah.

Four years.

Until the cycle changes.

I feel like this might be the case.

This one, we could end up having

like a full four-year cycle.

I mean, with an administration and a government that supports us and it being the United States of all nations,

yeah, this is unprecedented territory, right?

I mean, it's the

structure's changed.

So we, we could end up seeing a long bull market.

Because there's going to be so many new users being onboarded in crypto.

It could be a game changer, right?

Oh, yeah.

I mean, I mean, there's, we haven't seen an environment like this before.

And so cycles change as circumstances do, potentially.

You're getting back into acting?

I saw you tweeted out.

You're, you're in a new movie coming up.

Yeah.

We just had this TV show that just came out, Crypto Nights, on Amazon Prime.

And I've got a movie coming out next month with John Voigt.

Nice.

I didn't think I'd ever do that again.

Yeah, it's been a while, right?

Yeah, I quit acting when I was 16 and said never again.

That's like my former life in this life.

Quit early, 16.

That's when most people start acting.

I started at three.

That is so early.

So it wasn't by choice.

Yeah, at three, I wasn't that conscious.

My first memory in life takes place on a set making a commercial for the radio, a television commercial.

So the radio was advertising on television.

You know, that's back when televisions were.

Caught the tail end of that.

And it was a commercial called Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to Be Cowboys for KCRW.

That's your first memory.

Yes.

Wow.

Lights and things and just being so tired.

And I knew I had to do something.

And, you know, finally we got it done and everyone's happy.

And I'm like, yay.

Yeah.

So you had to grow up kind of quick just working right off the rip.

I've been working 41 years.

You're going to to retire anytime soon?

Absolutely not.

I love it.

I'm not here for retirement.

That's how you know you actually like what you're doing, though.

Yeah, I'm living my purpose and my passions, right?

Yeah.

It doesn't feel like work when

it's what you are.

Right.

It's not that many people

work to survive or live.

I live to work or to serve.

I love that.

20% project's another thing you're working on, right?

Yeah, I'm involved in so many things, but right now, I mean, I'm just so excited about what's possible right now with Maha and I mean, the idea that, you know, we have a sick care system rather than a healthcare system.

Now we can start focusing on health, preventative medicine.

These things ultimately are, from a cost perspective, a better approach as well.

And the fact that this was considered conspiracy, you know, this wasn't, we had empirical data that there were things in our food that caused cancer.

Yeah.

Like finally,

the momentum is there to make some of those changes that are, you know, it's just crazy to me that it took this long to get here thanks to RFK and, you know, the amazing movement there.

But yeah, 20% is another, you know, exciting, you know, project that, you know, just near and dear.

especially with all the lawfare and things that we've seen and the weaponization of the justice system and the regulatory system.

You know, 20% of the world's incarcerated are in the United States.

Wow.

That's why it's called 20%.

Are the American people inherently bad

that we should disproportionately have this level of

people incarcerated in our country?

I don't think so.

I don't think the American people are bad.

I think we're amazing.

I think what made this country great is the ingenuity of the American people and that we're a society built on like redemption and second chances.

And like, I mean, there's so many amazing things that make us special,

but something's wrong there.

And so the idea is to take it from 20% to 10%,

you know, very similar to like what Doge was doing in trying to find efficiency.

You know, how do we use AI and tools to start figuring out, you know, how do we bring cut that number in half?

You know, there's a lot of people that are, you know, nonviolent offenders and things of that nature or people that we can identify, you know, with technology or people that that are there wrongly, you know, so

it's an area that's just, it's heartbreaking.

Yeah.

And there are violent offenders and people that do need to currently, at least at this time, still be locked in cages to protect society.

But I don't think it's the numbers that we currently have.

Yeah, 20% is mind-blowing to me because we're nowhere close to 20% of the world population.

Yeah, not even close.

So that is crazy.

There's people in there for cannabis, which is now legal.

Ridiculous.

Like,

you know, all of those people should, you know, be released and have the, and, and have their criminal records expunged yeah so they can get jobs right it's uh like

i'm surprised it hasn't happened yet like i mean that's an automatic for example yeah and there's a lot of things like that and so the idea of the 20 foundation is to identify all of those opportunities and try to understand how we can you know cut that number in half yeah because right now some of the prisons are overcrowded too right well i think that's fundamentally where part of the problem is it's it's that it's a misaligned incentive

We have for-profit prisons.

Yeah.

The more people they have, the more they make.

More customers, yes.

Yeah, they see them as a customer.

It's so messed up.

Yeah, I mean, that's, that's how their revenue is generated.

And so healthcare, too, but yeah.

Back to yes.

It's you're not trying to fix problems or cure people.

You're trying to treat people because it's more profitable.

How do we align the incentives so that we can all win together?

That's exciting.

Yeah, Maha's making good progress.

They already got a couple food dies banned, right?

Yeah.

I mean, we're only 120 days in.

I've i've never seen an administration take action this quick on anything yeah we're getting you know there's still confirmations to be done it's the administration's not even fully assembled yet yeah but um uh you know we're the administration is getting a lot done and getting it done quick you know so super excited for what's possible over the coming you know three and a half years you think you'll ever make a run for politics again Well, you don't run for president once if you don't intend to run for another office.

I did an exploratory campaign in a municipality once, and then then I did an exploratory campaign on a U.S.

Senate run in 2022.

2023 and 2024 was about

the presidential.

You know, we built a lot of infrastructure

that came in handy for RFK.

And so I was very happy at not having to run.

I'm happy to sit out cycles and happy to find, you know, if there's other people that are willing and able to serve, by all means.

Yeah.

I'm not looking for more jobs, but clearly I've put myself out there as someone that is willing to serve.

Yeah.

Well, we'll see if there's going to be a little void after Trump, I think.

And we'll see where it goes.

But, you know, I'm constantly analyzing what offices are there.

And my goal is usually to find somebody else.

Yeah.

Well, if you run on the left, you'll have a better shot, I think.

Not many good opponents there right now.

Yeah, it's going to be,

I mean, we'll see, you know, through the, what happens next year.

Yeah.

But, you know, some very big governor races.

Obviously, you know, it's Congress.

So I'm involved.

Yeah.

You know, it's, and I'm glad that more of us are getting involved.

You also got a company, DNA.

What's that one about?

DNA is

my latest company that where most of my crypto activity runs through.

So we're kind of everything.

We're an asset management firm.

We have a bunch of different fund strategies.

We're an advisory firm, consulting, market making, banking,

events, basically,

you know, kind of everything that isn't a broker dealer or an investment bank.

Got it.

So you're, you're playing around with some altcoins and stuff too?

I've played around in everything.

I mean, I've been doing this a long time.

Yeah.

That's where you make the serious returns, right?

Well, you can create a risk.

Yeah.

Right.

Risk profile determines, you know, that.

How degenerate do you get?

Do you get into the meme coins too?

Oh, I love memes.

Oh, God.

I didn't get them.

I'm usually very early to things.

Yeah.

You know, sometimes first.

But I missed the memes because everything I did was about building utility and technology and things of that nature.

And so I, I saw the power of community.

And, you know, so I always spoke positively of Doge

and Litecoin and things of that nature.

But

I didn't fully appreciate it.

Really, Elon Musk gets the credit for that.

You know, his line of he who controls the memes controls the universe.

You know, I eventually got it, right?

It's an open source technology play.

So, community, marketing, messaging, you know, that's a big part of what makes these things what they are, right?

Even things like Board 8 Yacht Club and, you know, all this stuff.

And so

it took a while, but, you know, I get it.

I think that this is the meme coins, you know, or memes that were already impacting elections before the coins emerged.

Memes are a way that

we express our feelings, right?

Either in support or protest of something.

And adding a coin to it just made it more engaging.

And so that's what it is effectively, right?

It's a way that we express, society expresses its feelings and things that go big is widespread sort of emotion.

And so it's neat to see a market emerge for memes.

You know, I think it's, I mean, I would not encourage people to invest in them.

I'd encourage people to play with them.

It's probably the right way to think.

Yeah, there's a difference there.

Yeah.

Some of these coins hit billion-dollar market cops.

Pretty crazy.

I mean, you can make some money playing around.

Yeah.

But, you know, I think of it more as an experiment of

society expressing itself.

I love that.

And if you can predict society's expressions well and things that

resonate and you can do that early, obviously obviously, you can do very well.

Yep.

You're doing anything in the AI space right now?

That's a big space.

Yeah, lots of stuff at DNA.

I think we've deployed almost $50 million this year.

Wow.

In the AI space.

So we're very active in where AI meets decentralization or blockchains.

We're big participants in Bit Tensor, if you're familiar with that.

I've heard of them.

Yeah.

So the whole idea is I prefer a decentralized AI.

No offense to the centralized systems.

I play with all of them.

But, you know, the idea of we the people owning the system, right?

And you owning your AI agent and things of that nature.

Right.

So ChatGPT is not decentralized, right?

No, none of the big ones are.

So they own all the data.

Yes, effectively.

And they're probably selling that eventually.

I don't know what their plans are.

And all that value is accruing to a centralized company versus figuring out a way for all of us to participate and win together.

Right.

And so I like that model for a variety of reasons.

One, own your data,

having control over over your information, pretty important information, and the opportunity to benefit from the economic, you know, sort of value that's created.

And so I like to see lots of people winning coming together.

It's like I say,

every time you pull out your wallet, every time you transact, you're giving power to something to a company, a product, its shareholders, people.

And so to be mindful, conscious of what you're transacting with.

And as we become very mindful and conscious of the power that we give, let's give it to the systems that we think best serve us.

I love that.

Is there a decentralized AI that's up and coming you think that can compete with?

Well, that's BitTensor is the one that we've backed the biggest right now, but we're participating in a number of them.

Okay.

I got to try that one out.

I think there's a lot of value in AI.

I use it almost every day, but you're right.

I'd rather own my own data at least.

Yeah, that's a basic idea.

And, you know, as people get hip to that,

both.

the ownership of data, right?

The most precious commodity in the world was gold for a long time.

Then it became black gold or oil.

The most precious commodity in the world today is your data.

Yep.

I mean, these companies have so much data on us.

It's crazy.

These social media platforms.

And I'd like you to own your digital DNA.

Digital DNA.

Unfortunately, I don't own my physical DNA because 23andMe got,

they went out of business.

I don't know if you saw that.

Yeah, they've gone through a bankruptcy proceeding.

Yep.

So they're in a bankruptcy auction right now.

I think the courts meet June 17th.

Regeneron, I think, won the bid, at least as we understand it now.

And that's the largest data repository of genomics data.

Wow.

You know, and going to end up in the hands of a pharmaceutical company or an insurance company, you know, you know, versus, you know, ending up in a vehicle where all of those people could have ended up owning their genomic data.

You know, nothing would have been cooler if then, you know, someone from my industry had successfully been able to buy such a thing and been able to protect the people's information and put that into a wallet and then give people the permissions, the ability with informed consent to say, I'll share my data with

a university or for research because I want to cure something and, you know, and

get credit for having given my data to make the world healthier or sell my data, but where I at least participate in the economics of it.

Right.

You know, someone is going to build a system that does that.

I mean, that is some valuable health data that they just acquired.

Yeah, it's a, you know, 15 million people's DNA.

I mean, I imported my, my raw data from that into AI and learned a lot about myself.

So like, once you start mixing AI with this data, you can really solve some big problems, like you're mentioning, I feel like.

And that's the exciting part of it.

You know, but I'm, you know, I'm always concerned about the commons and how we protect, you know, the people.

Yeah.

So are you more cautious of AI?

Like, there's some people that are really fearful of it.

Elon keeps saying he's a little worried.

I mean, yeah, but I mean, cats out of the bag.

No stopping it at the time.

I don't spend my time

dwelling on things that aren't going to change.

Instead, I focus on being the change.

You know, what are the things that we need?

How do we, you know,

build systems that bring these technologies forward in the best possible way.

As I say, technology is amoral.

It's neither good or bad.

It's a tool.

How we use it determines the impact it has, right?

Electricity can be used to make light, you know, or an electric chair.

Yeah.

I love that.

I love that.

Cause a lot of people demonize social media, but it's how you use it.

You can use social media to learn a lot of information.

They can be incredibly good tools when used correctly or harmful if misused.

100%.

Where are your next events?

Where can people keep up with you?

Well, after

Bitcoin 2025,

I will be speaking in Miami.

Oh, I don't even know.

I go to LA for a day

for not even a day, Miami for not even a day, Rome for maybe not even a day,

New York for like a half a day.

All over, man.

This is what my,

I'm a man on the move.

Yeah, that's impressive.

Well, we'll, we'll link your site or something below, all your projects.

Thanks for coming on, Brock.

Appreciate it.

Thanks for having me.

Yeah, check them out, guys.

I'll see you next time.