Art Over Numbers: My Journey as a Musician | Clayton Lisy DSH #1385

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Not that I'm like, whatever, like even like with women, treating mistreating women and stuff, and then, like, they're awkward around women, or they couldn't get women without money or wearing chains or any of this kind of stuff.

And I'm like, when you can just talk to women, and what do they like, like, women don't want to have sex, too.

It's crazy.

Like, I'm pretty sure they do.

And we're all here, right?

How do we get here?

You know what I mean?

Okay, guys, got music artists here today, Clayton.

How's it going, my man?

Love the outfit.

Good, thank you.

Really unique hat and everything going on.

Yeah.

You got a stylist?

I style myself.

I've had people want me to style them before back when I was younger.

And I just,

I never did it, really.

Yeah, that's impressive.

It's not easy to think of stuff like this, you know?

Oh, it's a lot easier with money than without money.

Think of it.

I think people like, but then, yeah.

So,

and it's just.

Trying to pair the right things.

You know, a lot of people, they dress really corny.

They'll wear like, they'll look like suitcases, you you know like they'll wear like big like

patterned like gucci jackets and stuff but that looks like the same like like the bag you know what i mean yeah so might as well just you know have a handle on the top their head yeah these days fashion's uh pretty important with social media i feel like

um

i think it's all yeah i think i think it's always been important though in a sense like

whenever you saw like i'm such a big fan like old rock music think about like bowie or anybody like that or mcjag or anything they always

like, if you see old interviews of them, they never looked like

frumpy one time.

It always looked like

kind of like

they were spending money on clothes, to my opinion.

I don't know.

Yeah, no, I could see that.

Oh, man.

I'm already messing up.

Nah, even like pro athletes, though, they're getting recorded walking in the stadium now and they got to look good.

Yeah, that's huge.

Yeah.

Yeah.

A lot of them shop where I shop because I'm tall and then they like

take up.

You got to get to the store before they wake up.

Is all your shit cost on pretty much because you're so tall and got a unique frame I guess?

No, because of the all actually the pro athletes coming in trying to dress like better has like helped me in the last like probably five ten years to dress like probably like 10 years ago I weighed a lot less and it was like I had to like So it's easier to like get into stuff, but now with like pro athletes being like so fashionable, it's like it's been pretty easy to find clothes believe it or not because it makes so much big oversized stuff because they know like oh an nfl player is going to buy it or you know this basketball player is going to buy it i know um it's one store i shop at me and this certain basketball player like similar size so if he doesn't buy it i will you're just swapping clothes with him uh kind of sometimes getting stuff that they're even going to sell to him but then he just like doesn't show up or busy i don't know if i mentioned who because i feel like he doesn't want to be put on on blast well no i don't think the store wants to be put on blast because they've sold me stuff that like

they were like well we were really gonna sell to him but like we kind of like you better because you come in more consistently and you're like you're honestly like nicer to us and stuff so i'm like all right

and then i wore this shirt out that night and i was like worried and i thought i'm like if he goes to the same restaurant as me and sees me wearing the shirt he was going to buy i was like i'm nervous i was like just sweating bullets in the restaurant, just like, oh, like, what if, what if this, he, because it was a nice enough restaurant where I'm like, you know, there's a chance that like, if he's in town and he's already here, he might come by and go to the same place.

And I, you know, I'm screwed.

So damn.

Yeah, but it didn't happen.

Thank God.

That's good.

Well, Vegas, that would happen.

There's like everyone goes to the same casinos, but I feel like LA is a bit more spread out, right?

It is, it is, but people still kind of,

it's like spread out, but like a lot of the celebrities go to like the the same places.

And they don't really, the nicest, the best restaurants are like the restaurants you wouldn't expect.

So it's kind of like, it's like strange.

Like a lot of celebrities go to like all the hype places, but the hype places really like.

The food is made.

Yeah,

I mean, compared to like the price of it.

Yeah.

Well, that's how it works with restaurants.

It's inauthentic.

Yeah.

Whenever there's high quality restaurants, it's, it's not the name brand spots.

Yeah.

It's like a mom and pop they'll have just also like like a lot of like japanese like fusion restaurants and then like you can go to like japantown which is sauteel or like little tokyo is kind of like honestly gentrified now but saute is still um

like really authentic and if you go there like the japanese restaurants there are just like

You like I feel like I never have to go to Japan in my life damn

food wise.

I mean people that I've even known.

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I've gone there, who've and gone to the restaurant with me, are are like this is the same holy crap so i i mean i that's what i hear and all and you know it's good because all the other people in the restaurant like

are asian people so you just see like all asian people and you're like like if i see too many white people black people any kind of other people in the like in an asian restaurant i start getting nervous because i'm like i don't feel like i'm at the right one you know like like i'm i you know because it's just

it you know if if japanese people aren't eating the japanese food you know there's something up you know 100%.

I do the same thing with Indian restaurants.

Oh, yeah, that goes too.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm the only white person in the one I go to.

Every time I'm there, it's 40, 50 Indian people.

All the owners are Indian.

They don't even speak English.

And I get looked at so hard when I go in there.

But that's how I want it with Indian food.

No, that's how you know it's good.

It's not like, I mean,

why just eat something else?

You know?

Yeah.

So.

Absolutely.

Food is a big part of my life, though.

Unfortunately, it's a big part of mine, too.

That's like one of probably my biggest battle, you know, especially being an artist.

You know, it's like, yeah, you're on the road all the time.

Well, they just expect you to also be like really thin and stuff.

And I feel like you don't have a problem with that.

But me, I, I've, I, I've fluctuated weight more than probably some of these fighters you've had on here.

Trust me, like.

I've gone from weighing 185 to 300 to back down and stuff back and forth pretty quickly just because like

I started my career with 185, gone up to 300,

been around 230, all kinds of stuff.

So, I played college football around like at like three something, but like, um,

you know, you just you fluctuate weight a lot easier, like with a you know, you're, you're, you're a pretty tall, I feel like you're taller.

Me or taller, I couldn't even tell.

I'm six, six.

What are you, six, five?

Somewhere around there.

So, it's like, it's like, uh,

you know, um,

it's just easy to put on weight.

Like sometimes I feel like you don't notice it as quick.

It takes like a couple months and then you hop on that scale and you're like, oh.

As I've gotten older, I've definitely lost a step.

Like right now I'm 195, which is the most I've weighed in a while.

That's still good though.

Yeah.

Like for your height, that's, that's perfect.

That's like, once you start getting into like, because you'll just notice like

inflammation is like the number one.

It's all disease inflammation from what like people tell me so it's like if all disease is inflammation it's like you got to think like inflammation all that stuff is stored in fat and carrying too much fat on your body being disproportionate and we're probably like you know modern society one of the first

people that have really carried all this fat because you think about it everybody used to just walk everywhere or before like industrialism and stuff and like mercantilism everybody had a trade right like blacksmiths fishermen all this shit so it was all it was all active stuff right and then now it's like all jobs are kind of like passive like we're very like cerebral very computer heavy very like that like even if i'm playing an instrument or singing i might be standing or sitting for 10 12 hours you know it's not or it's not really uh

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I think part of it's the food, but part of it's also like

the way we've like our lives have become, you know or just not as involved and stuff more sedentary yeah yeah i mean look how i'm making a living i'm sitting in a chair podcasting all day yeah i didn't want to like i feel like now like like a dick saying that but like no i sit in a chair a lot too to play guitar and stuff i acknowledge it i i'm aware of it i have to take 10 000 steps a day outside of podcasting like i have to dedicate time but um i think it's only gonna get worse with ai because now we're gonna become more reliant on that people are gonna get lazier and lazier yeah i mean I've had,

it depends on like what your job is.

So like, I don't, I think it's going to be hard for people to replace anything that's creative because I've tested AI itself just to say like, hey, I write a song and then tested like, and wrote a song at the same time, AI, and then like kind of mapped both songs.

And there's programs that can write songs and stuff and be like, bro, I'll smack AI.

Like, that's right.

For now, for now.

Forever.

Nah, nah.

Forever.

It's going to get better.

I'll stand on that.

I'll give you this pinky if not.

Really, I'm not going to be able to do that.

You think in 30 years, it won't happen.

And 30 years, I'll mail you this.

I swear, like,

on everything.

Like, it's not, because it can't,

it's like, there's something like, you've heard the whole thing about like cars, right?

And like, how like the self-driving thing is like doesn't work.

Cause like humans have the natural intuition.

to like know if somebody's going to swerve over or not before they even put on a blinker, before they even turn the wheel or anything.

We're naturally connected and stuff.

AI is just a compilation of our connections and everything throughout that we've built up, but it's not actually our live connection as of right now.

So unless they make a different form of AI that I'm not aware of that they could be developing, but as this AI now, if it progressed, I think, yes, will it replace a lot of office jobs?

Will it replace a lot of,

you know,

tech things, a lot of things that honestly, I'm not too versed in those situations, but I think it will replace a lot of those things.

But creators and artists, I think, is the last thing it's going to replace.

I mean, I just have seen like the use of AI even in music, and it's been very corny to me.

It's been very obvious.

It's been, um,

it's just, like I said, it's derivative because all it can do is derive from things.

And people say, all music is derivative.

And it's like, to an extent, but it's still a lot of like,

like,

I could give you sheet music for a song.

Like, I'm classic for Meco

guitar.

I could give you sheet music for a song.

And if you, you can follow the directions and everything, but the feeling of it, one ensemble is going to play it different than the next because there's so much feeling in it.

So if you take a band, you're like, I want to sound exactly like this band.

How's AI going to feel something when I've had deep talks with AI where it admits it doesn't have feelings?

Yes.

And so, yeah, yeah, it doesn't.

But if it does have feelings, is it just replicating our feelings?

You know what I mean?

So, it's like, is it just a replication of human feelings?

You know, so that's really what the question is.

So, I have no fear of AI.

I think AI is going to be a useful tool.

I think there's going to be artificially intelligent beings walking around that are very helpful to society and going to further progress.

I don't view an AI takeover like some Terminator type shit.

I don't, I don't, I'm not, I'm not worried about that.

I mean,

you know, maybe eventually there could be something like that, but in the next 30 years, no, not in my lifetime for sure.

No.

It's moving fast though, man.

I'll say this.

I just went to Miami.

I saw two AIs that kind of blew my mind.

So the first one was I checked into my hotel using AI.

Yeah.

It provided blank hotel room keys and I scanned it on the machine myself.

and AI checked me in.

The second one was at the airport on the way back.

So you know how people normally push the wheelchairs when there's overweight people on the flight?

Now that's AI.

Yeah.

So the wheelchairs are moving by themselves and picking people up on the plane.

We don't push wheelchairs or check people in hotels, do you?

So you don't got to worry.

Well, yeah.

I'm just saying it's moving fast.

It starts with that, and then it's going to keep getting better.

I get it, but it's not going to be able to put the feeling in music that people put.

feeling into stuff.

Yeah, music's going to be hard, but there's a lot of fear in film and entertainment with

the writing.

i mean

yeah and i think that the easiest way with that is like actors have unions and all that kind of stuff they just need to kind of all put their foot down against that and maybe like

you know not be such like kind of like

be a little bit more open to

different kind of

you know like right now there's kind of like okay you got to do this this and this to be successful in hollywood i'm not going to really name what those things are, but everybody knows what those are.

You got to jump through this hoop, this hoop, and this hoop.

You got to act like you like this, this, and this.

So maybe if they kind of step outside of that and create something, they're like, okay, instead of just like

us rebelling against, you know,

like some political shit or this or us feeling a certain way, trying to line this way.

Maybe we should actually take our time and rebel against something that matters, like AI, that's actually going to might take our jobs.

Because if it does take the jobs but I mean

I don't know I mean to my knowledge I don't once again I've never written a script I've never shot a movie so I don't know I'm sure it's going to replace some cameraman I'm sure it's going to replace a lot of you know lighting people or all kinds of stuff you know gaffers different things like robots and things with intelligence will be able to replace that but I just don't know if it's going to be able to make like

a great movie like like,

I don't know if AI could have like, like, have you ever seen that movie like Enemy or anything like that?

Like, that movie's like crazy.

It's like, I like, or what's the one where the lady's like stuck on the boat and stuff keeps repeating.

I don't know if you've seen that one.

I haven't seen that one, but I know what you're talking about.

That, that movie will fuck mess with your head.

I don't know whether I'm allowed to curse or not.

I don't know.

Okay, yeah.

Sometimes.

He's stuck in a time loop.

It's, I, I'm glad I don't remember the name of the movie because I shouldn't even recommend it to people.

Like, it's like one of those where you're just just like, I just don't know if AI is capable of doing that ever because there's so much human emotion and human fear.

Now you got to think we do so much things out of fear then too.

Now, how are you, you can program fear into something, but fears are natural things from like being like born and then going through stuff.

Yeah.

So unless AI has a way to replicate birth.

and to make some like itself have almost like this false birth, right?

And this false like traumas and stuff.

Like even so much of music has come through trauma and art and comes through that.

So I just, that's the one main reason why I just, I just don't see it being able to replicate all of the artistic aspects of humanity.

No, I agree.

I agree.

I think maybe on the lyrics, they can write some clever lyrics, but the actual emotion behind everything, that would be hard to replicate.

Yeah,

I would, I mean, I would hope it could probably write lyrics, but I think that'd still probably be like derivative of something, you know?

Like it would just be, it would be something that's like,

like to my knowledge, it can only take from what is there, you know?

Whereas I've heard lyrics that are stuff that,

like, I'm a huge fan of the Libertines, and I was joking around with AI.

I was like, oh, write me a Libertines song because I just was like, I was like, I just want to see what it comes up with.

That did not sound or had anything like the Libertines lyrics.

Like, I was like, it kind of got like the essence of what they're about but it wasn't anything like

like

anywhere close and it's because like yeah the the lead singer was or not lead singer but lead guitarist

one of the singers literally was doing mass amounts of heroin drugged up and sleeping them on chairs and couches and shit like You can't replicate that.

What is AI going to do?

Shoot up heroin now for 20 years and you can make a good song.

Like, I mean, you know, like, it's got to replicate a lot of like feelings that people did and like a lot of trauma and a lot of things that people overcame that i just don't see that happening you know me personally like i'm just saying like unless we find a way like like you know like brain surgery they got to keep you awake because we don't know enough about the brain so you got to think it's still humans programming this ai so if we don't know enough about the brain that they got to keep you awake during brain surgery the moment they can put you under during brain surgery, I'll be worried about AI.

The moment they got to still have, like, if you play guitar, they'll have you playing guitar while they're working on your brain, just in case they hit something wrong, because they don't know what all the stuff in there does.

I didn't know that.

So, when you get a brain surgery, you have to be awake.

Yeah, 100%.

Wow.

I just thought they knocked you out.

No, I'm

pretty sure of this, and maybe somebody will correct me.

Um, and I'm open to that.

But, um,

yeah, they keep you awake during brain surgery.

So,

you know, I've seen videos where a guy was playing guitar because,

you know, they don't know what everything in our own brain does.

So when you think about it, the AI is a replication of human brain, right?

So they don't know everything that the brain does.

So if the AI is a replication of the human brain and we don't know everything that the brain is, yet we're the ones programming that artificial brain.

It's going to have holes in there.

So that's the thing.

So, I mean.

I think that's why people say like, yeah, it's moving fast.

It's going to be able to replace jobs where people don't actively use their brain or don't have to think outside the box or you know there's been a lack of especially i think in this country of people you know uh you know um

what is like humble but like humbility that's not humility humility there's a lack of humility so a lot of people don't know like oh let me smile and have good service and everything they could probably program a robot to smile better than a human right now you know what i mean and if i'm sure like it like i don't know like some hotels you check in it'll be a nice hotel somebody would be sitting there like

all sour puss face it's like come on like you know smile you know it's like you know like what else are you not gonna like i mean i'm eastern european we naturally don't smile and i still like i remind myself you know i i put in like a little smile clock on my head like

all right boom smile you know okay bust out a smile just so people don't think you're angry you know

So you're not getting a neural link anytime soon.

I don't know about that because I got other like physical issues with my ears and stuff so i'm like i wouldn't be i don't think i'd be you got tinnitus or hearing loss uh i got like sc ds and menears and tinnitus and all that stuff yeah i got tinnitus in my left ear but i'm about to do regenokine is that stem cells what is that i've done stem cell injections through my ear oh my god which i do not don't do that sounds painful dude well they can only numb one side so yeah it's a it's like it's one of the most painful things ever because when they break on through to the other side you know shout out the doors they like you

I mean

it literally feels like somebody's stabbing your brain geez and and they got to put that needle in there for a while and I've like

I literally see like my feet were like like twitching like in pain and like just like

Like, you know, like those forced tears of pain where you can't even like stop them.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like, like, you know what I mean?

It's like, like, it's like plucking a nose nose hair type thing it's like it's like that just starts streaming and i'm just like i'm it's not even like crying it's like just like that pain so that that and i've had that and the problem with stem cells is that they're just so gatekept so they're so expensive especially in this country yeah and the regenicon thing is basically they take out your blood and then they add like protein back into it and kind of like rebalance stuff And I know Dana White got it done in Germany.

It was made by this doctor in Germany and it can help with all kinds of different inflammation things because most diseases or most problems with the body either stem from inflammation or inflammation itself.

So from what I'm told, you know, at least, once again, I'm not a doctor.

So it's like, you know, I've heard about that from reputable doctors.

Okay, good.

So, you know, at least somebody can, like, at least the reputable people can back me up because last thing I want to do is give medical advice with no college degree, you know, probably not the best idea, but.

Damn.

So that I've heard of that.

It's like blood cycling.

It also removes the heavy metals from your bloods and like the vaccine stuff and the parasites, right?

Well, I've never been vaccinated.

Well, you got the childhood ones.

I don't know if I did.

Really?

I don't know.

Like, I don't know which ones, but I know I don't think I might have not even got, I don't think I got like chicken pox, any of that stuff.

Oh, wow.

So your parents were pretty aware back in the day then.

We're Eastern Europeans, so not necessarily aware.

We just like, you know, I didn't go to eye doctor until I was 28, you know, like, and then they said, like, you need glasses.

Like, I, like, like, so-so, like, you know, just like,

you know, just different priorities.

It's more of like a shut up and work type philosophy.

Like, so versus like, oh, I'm sick.

Well, no, you aren't.

That's just kind of like

the whole,

like, our.

Tradition is just like work, then die.

Similar to Asians.

Yeah.

I mean, not far away from it.

So basically similar.

Yeah.

It's just you work, then you die.

That's just kind of what we believe in and kind of what I believe in.

I'm just going to work and then die.

And then that's, that's it.

And so you don't have any passion outside of work right now?

No, none.

You serious?

I'm serious.

I don't do anything.

Like you don't do any hobbies for fun, like video games or?

Well, I played like video games before,

but I'm not like, they kind of like, they passed me by, you know, like, I don't know, fork knife and what's it called?

Um card Call of Duty, bro.

That shit, they move so fast now.

Like, I played like Modern Warfare 2.

Yeah.

Um, and um, they're on like Black Ops 5, I think, now.

Yeah, like I wouldn't even know.

I think the furthest I ever got was like Black Ops 2 or something.

And then the only one I could probably still play occasionally, and I think I could have almost gone pro in it was Halo.

Because I could probably still pop on Halo today and like just go crazy.

I feel like I could have gone pro, but maybe that's just like a delusion in my head.

That or was the one when you, you're a car and you kick soccer balls.

Oh,

rocket league.

Yeah, yeah, that one, I feel like I could, I don't know if they have pro Rocket League.

They do.

They do?

Yeah.

Shit.

Okay.

So you do stuff outside of work.

I don't do that really anymore, but because my work takes up so much time.

But

if

I'm saying I feel like I could go pro in those if I had to go pro in a video game.

I don't do, I'm trying to think of what I do outside of work.

Family?

Uh, all my family is mostly dead, besides my dad's, so not really.

And then, like, or they're just like living in Cleveland, and no offense to Cleveland.

They probably won't watch this, so it's fine.

It's a shithole.

So, yeah, those are my favorite.

Yeah, it's not that nice.

So, you know,

I just don't really, you know, I've even lived there before, so I wouldn't really go there.

And then, like,

so no, not really, no family.

I don't really have any friends I hang hang out with or anything like i don't really believe in that especially being in la because

i bro i had like one dude who messaged me um

it was all into my music back when i was a solo artist and he was like messaging me calling me calling me he's like trying to call me crazy like calling me like not crazy but calling me a crazy amount of times and sends me a text and this it's like

December 23rd or sometime around then.

And then,

sure enough, like I hear on the news later, he murder-suicided his girlfriend and her two kids.

Holy crap.

And I was just thinking in my mind, I'm like, that's why I don't got friends.

I'm like, you don't know who you're friends with in LA.

I'm like, especially, I'm going to wait till after this Diddy trial and then I'll let you know if I have any friends.

You feel me?

Like, until then, I don't know anybody.

You see me in a picture with somebody.

I don't know.

who they are.

You know, until this, I'll see who, you know, I never went to, like I said, thank God I'm not the partying type, so I never really went to any parties, not even in high school.

I never went to a single high school party.

I didn't go to prom.

I didn't go to

like frat parties in college.

I did do that because I played football.

So like

you could just like walk into them when you play football.

Yeah.

And the frat people are nice, actually.

I mean, I know they get a bad rep and stuff, but they're actually nice.

Well, nice to you.

You're on the football team.

Okay, nice to regular guys okay maybe not i don't know this maybe i don't know i just like but they they they i felt good energy when i was there uh

and um

obviously like i had like teammates and stuff in college and high school and stuff that you kind of like pile around with you know you know

florida we just you know put fireworks in mailboxes and stuff and just you know shout at people throw stuff at them

yeah y'all floridians are are different yeah i've kind of like realized when i was saying out loud like maybe some of this stuff isn't like the best to say but it's like it's just kind of like youthful stuff like yeah we just would like we used to just like put like m80s in mailboxes and they would just like get like bigger like what's that not explode but implode where it gets like

you know what i'm saying so and then you just put the string you you light it and you just will do like a whole your whole the goal is to get like a whole street for like everybody's mailbox is fucked up i don't know if that's a crime or not not i don't think so yeah i used to ding-dong ditch um that's not a crime on me no but then i started stealing mail and that's kind of where i drew the line yeah i guess it depends

i mean it's illegal right so i'm like

i called the cops once i was like i'm done doing this on you and did they know it was you i got away i was a kid i ran away oh you're you're good but it was dumb like i was stealing out of the mailbox random letters and stuff that that didn't even matter like

yeah that is that it is dumb but i feel like part of that's like growing up you know like if you don't do that if you don't do that as a child you're gonna end up like i don't know you got to get it out of you we all got that little demon or whatever the yeah like that bad voice in our head like i i accidentally burned a public restaurant to the ground it was on the news holy

and like

oh i don't know if he even knows about that uh but that was when i was like young enough that i think this the statute of limitations is out on that allegedly allegedly you know i i may know of who burned it may may not.

I don't know if they can link that, but it was on the news.

And it was just because we just lit a bunch of fireworks in a trash can and just threw a bunch of paper towels in there.

I want to say we, me, and my friend watched.

So just not really.

But yeah, just, I don't know.

So like, I don't know.

You just see that shit in Florida.

Like people would steal shit from like cars and stuff.

Usually just like sunglasses and stuff.

I never did that because,

you know, what is something new, though?

Like, cause it's so sunny.

I felt bad.

You know, it wasn't.

That your reason.

Yeah, and also, I don't like to, like, really, I never really, like, like robbed anybody too many times, you know, like, I never really felt like

only one time was enough.

I can't, I'm not, if I ever did, I would never talk about that.

Um, you know, I try to keep a clean image.

The other stuff, I can kind of talk about it because it's like mischief.

But if I ever did, which I wouldn't think I would be the type of person you can look at me, I don't look, you know, this hat.

You're pretty big, man.

you're pretty intimidating nah bullets don't discriminate 300 pounds everybody got guns in florida yeah you said bullets don't discriminate you know

uh nine millimeter 40 anything would take me down the same as it take down anybody you know what i mean same as take down somebody 5'9 150.

just might need a few more shots maybe depends on how well they're placed you know you know uh two in the center mass one in the head to finish off if anything is whatever i mean hey 50 cents survived what 20 shots something crazy

it wasn't as that many but

it was something crazy it was actually like

oh well nah he he he watches everything so i don't want to start anything with him but it was like the same amount as like tupac but they added more shots to it to like make him to try to make it like different make him tougher um

just to try to like differentiate it because they didn't want overlap of the story, you know, to kind of give him his own story, I think.

So I think that's the only thing that's like, that I know about him that's kind of a little bit fabricated, you know, but not to throw a shade.

I think so many people know about that.

And he has so many hit songs, so who cares?

And it's made so many great business deals and everything.

So I don't think he cares now about it, but probably 20 years ago cared, you know, if somebody said something about it.

Yeah.

You know, now.

I know you transitioned from hip-hop to rock.

Was just the safety aspect, any reason of it?

No, no.

I don't care.

You don't care about that stuff.

And honestly, you'd be surprised about how many rappers were, with the exception of few that really are, like, live that life.

You'd be surprised.

Like, I'm not even going to say the artists, but there was one time, one rapper who talks all kinds of crazy gang shit.

When he got in the room with me, couldn't even look me in the eyes, bro.

Like, literally was like looking out at the floor.

And then was, so he's talked about like women and stuff and everything.

So I'm like, We were in Atlanta.

So I'm like, I'll just have like, you know, some like strippers come through and get naked in the studio and have some money for him to throw and all this stuff and like try to show him a good time because i'm like oh i figure like roll up the red carpet for this kid and sure enough like he was even awkward around the women and stuff and i'm like

wow yo i think everything he said is cap and it turned out later that kid actually did snitch on another rapper or something so i was kind of right so all the music we did just got like muted like you know because it was like not that like i really care about that kind of stuff but in in hip-hop you can't really like no snitching in hip-hop and I don't really like you know, I don't really believe in like I'm a borderline like anarchist when it comes to the kind of that stuff like I don't think half the stuff should be crime.

So I'm like I miss I like glorify like the old West like days, you know, where people could just shoot out if they had a problem, you know, they they met in a certain place and made sure like, you know, everybody kind of shut the doors and they they met in like the middle of town where it felt like there could be nobody caught in in the crossfire and stuff so i feel like that that there's some beauty to that because that's like

or you know or like even going back to like founding father stuff people dueling and all kinds of things like that like they made sure no innocent people got hurt no women and children but at the same time if they had a problem that they felt like was worth taking a life over which i've never felt that way any about any problem but

They never got to the point where it's like now people just pull up and do shooting stuff like, you know, pull up and then you know, innocent people get shot.

One, mainly because they have bad aim, and number two, because it's just like they're pulling up to all kinds of bad places.

So I was never supportive of that.

I don't like violence when, if you haven't lived a violent life, I understand if you've lived a violent life and you're talking your truth and everything, but I don't like this fabricated violence that a lot of these rappers sell or fabricated drug use or fabricated, you know,

you know,

not that I'm like, whatever, like, like, even like with women, treat mistreating women and stuff.

And then like they're awkward around women or they couldn't get women without money or wearing chains or any of this kind of stuff.

And I'm like, when you can just talk to women and whether they're like, like, women don't want to have sex too.

It's crazy.

Like, I'm pretty sure they do.

And we're all here, right?

How do we get here?

You know what I mean?

Like, so it's like.

It's one of those things that, you know, I think just there was a lot of hypocrisy in hip-hop.

That's not really what made made me leave, but I think it was definitely a deciding force.

And then every time I kept it real, it seemed to bite me in the ass.

So me not pretending to be from the hood, me not pretending to be a gangster, me not pretending to be gang affiliated, all that stuff.

Me not like, like, you got to think about like, it worked out for people.

Like I had somebody recently like talk about like how much less speed bumps like somebody like Tommy Hilfiger's son has had in like the industry.

Like he did it like when my space was.

And you gotta think that's Tommy Hilfiger's fucking son like like

what gangster life is he living and then it's like and he's like making all kinds of west coast music about this and that and everything there's no issues let alone these new little white kids who are wild and out and

don't live half of that life and not even white kids there's black kids that do it too and tons of shit all these little kids are liars And it's like, you know,

and me, because I wouldn't lie and I wouldn't put the lies into my music, then they come after me and try to fabricate my background or try to go into things and

pull me apart.

And I'm like,

okay, because I won't lie.

That's the problem.

Like, like, what?

Should have I lied?

Like, I couldn't lie if I tried.

So to me, it's like, I've always been honest.

That's like one of my things.

Like, that's like when I said, like, oh, if AI does that, like, like, trust me, if 30 years, you might get a pinky in the mail.

Like, like, my bad.

But, you you know by then you could probably uh regrow it with the technology yeah might then by then it might not even be a thing but notice i chose a pinky that i don't need to play guitar so yeah i you know i didn't pick the best one don't worry i'm i still i'll be fine without it but it's like uh

you know

um

it's just there's a lot of hypocrisy a lot of lying I think people are waking up to it now.

Hip-hop numbers are going down.

For sure.

I mean, they're so fabricated.

It's crazy i mean you can see like i mean i've done deep dives into stuff well just like people don't even know what like like now people start to talk about other people so i feel comfortable saying that but like people didn't know monthly listeners were monthly impressions so like you know spotify works like a web page it's just a web page any app is a web page so it's how many people come to your web page so

it has nothing to do with how many listeners you actually It has nothing to do with how many listeners you actually have.

It has everything to do with how many people come to your web page.

Wow.

So it the the listeners mean nothing so you can fabricate that the same way people have fabricated anything on the internet as far as how many how much traction they can have coming to their web page that's not a hard thing to fabricate and then labels they all have systems where they have rooms like this or

even like this size where it might have a thousand or two thousand phones just running the songs you know 12 hours on 12 hours off and basically that just streams the song and gets it up to these artificial crazy numbers And that helps promote it because when people see that, and then they have different like IPs and different routers hooked up to each of the phones that shows, like, you know, okay, this set of phones is coming from Atlanta.

This set of phones is coming from New York.

This set of phones is coming from Los Angeles.

This ones are coming from Ohio.

This is coming from Miami.

Like, so all that stuff.

So, and they just run up the numbers.

And that's how they've kind of kept hip-hop surviving.

But you got to think about all the overhead of that.

It's a lot of overhead.

I mean, all those, you know, iPhones, like what?

They're spending at least $150 an iPhone.

At least these days more.

Well, they use old iPhones.

I mean, now it can use the newest stuff.

They got to have them permanently charged in.

Then they got to, you know, pay all the people to switch the phones off because if the phones run too long, it kind of runs a red flag and they could have some stuff rolled back.

That's why you've seen a lot of artists who've had a lot of sales like rolled back recently or like had their sales audited to where it's been like, oh, they sold.

And then it said they sold this and went back and all that kind of stuff.

So, or you, another thing you've just seen a lot of, like, I'm sure you've seen like the dip off between like people used to sell a million units in a week.

And when there was physical sales and it relied on digital sales, there was still CDs, it was easy.

They would just send people to like all the Best Buys or like, I don't know, record stores or still a thing.

And they would just send them to all that place and they'd have them clear out the shelves of the records and buy all that stuff and just send different employees around the globe and know where they're going and just buy up a bunch of the units and invest money in that.

And then that kind of made made it seem like, okay, we hit a million.

And then you hit billboard and then people kind of, you know, people are followers naturally.

So, you know, people like to follow what's successful.

So naturally they're like, okay, oh shit, that that sold a million.

That means it must be good.

You know, okay, that sold 500,000.

That means it must be good.

So all these labels have been doing that forever.

I've never partnered with the label, which is part of the reason why I think.

My success has been somewhat mediocre, you know, because it's like, I just never wanted to be be a part of the machine, you know, even being able to transition from doing one type of music to doing another under a completely different name would have never happened with the label.

Label would have said, okay, you at least got to drop this music under this name and we're going to still shoot the videos the same way.

We can't lose your, you know, old aesthetic, you know, and we can't lose your old fans.

Well, even if it's something new.

Like it would be like if you wanted to do something completely different, like you could just do that, you know?

Yeah.

But imagine if there was somebody telling you like, oh, no, you can't do that.

Like, you know, it could be a side thing to it or it could be a whole new chapter of your life so it's just like you know you just don't want to be controlled by some guy and be essentially like a slave you know owned i mean it's these 360 deals are ruthless i mean people are i know people that are signed them when they were 18 and they're still signed until i'm at 30.

oh my gosh artists like that like i'm not artists that i've even worked with are still have to answer to their daddies you feel me no amount of money would

no amount of money they don't they don't there ain't an amount of money that can get get certain artists out of it.

There are artists that I guarantee you've listened to.

Like, and people I've worked with, and they still got to listen to their daddy, their daddy who cleared their songs.

Crazy.

So, like, like, you know, they, they still, they still got a daddy that tell them, hey, you know, I feel like this,

like, they can tell them, go to their room.

You feel me?

They can tell them, hey, you got to time out.

You know what I mean?

Like.

hey, you know, I'm taking this away from you.

I'm taking away the PJ.

You know, like, they could tell them whatever, you know?

so

they, they still got to listen to that.

So I didn't want to have that, you know what I mean?

I wanted to just listen to myself and God, and that's it.

I'd rather make way less and be on my own, you know?

That's the way I saw it.

I saw it as art.

Like Van Gogh, nobody, you know, I don't know if this is accurate, but I've heard that he never even sold a painting, never knew he was going to be successful, never knew any of that.

And it's like, and still, yet his paintings are hanging places.

So sometimes art's not appreciated right away.

And that's okay.

Like, so I view it if you're going to, especially as an artist, if you're taking the path of art and expecting like money to come from it, then you're not taking the right path because it's not about the money.

It's about the art.

The art comes first always.

So that's why when you say, oh, do you have any hobbies or anything?

No, because the art comes first always.

My hobby is perfecting the art every day, perfecting the art, figuring out a way I can get better every day.

playing guitar every day, working on new song ideas every day, because that's what I owe the art.

If my whole life is just the art, that's a life worth well lived.

If I deviate from that, I've spent time chasing women, chasing this, chasing that.

Everything that I've done has just been a deviation from the art.

It made the art less

like of what it could be.

So the art is what it is.

And I can't deviate from that.

And for me to deviate from that is breaking my personal covenant with God when he made me an artist.

It gave me the ability to write songs.

So it breaks my personal covenant that I have, my personal gifts.

You know, that's, that's me and my creator.

It's basically me saying, you know, like, fuck you to the creator.

I can't do that.

So that's, that's the way I see it.

Like, you know, and as an artist is that like, I can't just, if I'm, you know, people say like, to be able to write a song is a gift.

There's a lot of artists out there that don't write their songs.

I didn't know this.

I've written everything I've ever done.

So, you know, and people said, like the drummer who drums,

we have Josh Freed from the Foo Fighters who drums on the stuff,

excellent drummer.

And he said, I'm a prophylic writer.

Like, I can just write

because we're so deep into so many albums that we haven't released on the rock music kick because I've just written so much.

I just keep making more and more and more to where, like, I honestly could stop working for probably four years and still have music to release.

Like, because I'm already like eight albums already into it with only album two about to come out in a little bit.

So so it's just that's just but that's the way i'm supposed to be like prince released like 40 something albums i got a prince tattoo here you think prince had hobbies or was it you know like it was just all about like i knew somebody that um worked with him and said oh prince was egotistical because he would just watch videos of himself on stage and i explained to her i was like no no no he wasn't egotistical Prince was a genius.

He was watching how he appeared on stage so he could give people the best show.

All eyes eyes are on him.

He's not thinking it from an ego place.

He's thinking it from a, how can I give people what they paid for the best show?

How can I show them what they came for to see?

So when I think about it from that sense, I'm like, you know, he died doing what he loved,

performing until the very end.

And that's the way you have to do it as an artist.

And if that's not what you're willing to commit to the art, then you're not an artist.

You know, and that's, um,

that's just how I've,

I've, I've seen it.

Like, you know, you know, my whole life, I've never wanted to do anything else but just do music.

Wow.

So I feel like I'm privileged to be in this position.

I thank God to be in this position.

I think there's never been a scenario that I would have wanted more.

So I think about that 10-year-old me, right?

That you, you know, like you ever think about like your child's self, if they could see you now.

And so the inner child in me tells me,

you did it.

Like you're here.

You're making art.

Like this is perfect.

Like, what are you doing?

Like, what are you doing?

Like, the inner child in me wouldn't have cared to go to a strip club.

The inner child of me wouldn't have cared to, you know, oh, if you met this certain whatever and this and powdered around with this.

The inner child would have just been like, whoa, you're telling me you get to make music and people actually get to hear it.

And some people like it.

And you get to even go this music and you get to go do this and all this stuff.

I'm like, the inner child of me would just, he would geek out.

He'd just be like,

you did it.

This is what we wanted.

So when I look at like that, I'm like,

what, what could I do?

You know, what could I, you know, other than that?

So I'm just, I'm just, I feel blessed in a sense of, I haven't had the perfect,

you know.

linear path to success.

I haven't had great success in certain things.

I haven't, but my success is being able to do what I do.

Just being able to do it is a blessing in itself.

And that's, I know

sometimes talking about God and stuff makes people feel comfortable about that.

I don't know what you are religiously, but, and, um, but, you know,

I've,

I'm not a particular, I would say

I'm not.

a particular

religion per se, I would say, other than, I guess, Christian leaning and believing in that.

But at the same time, I'm not practicing.

I don't go to churches and really like, I find they squander money.

You know, you've seen like shows like Righteous Gemstones and stuff.

Like that shit's real.

Like, you know, it's like they got these mega churches and then the Catholic church is, you know, a little problematic for reasons we all know.

You know, like, you know, the whole,

you know, fucking little kids, you know.

Any modern day churches.

Yeah.

So all religions have their problem, but you want to know what doesn't have its its problem?

God itself.

And we can all tap into that.

We know what's right or wrong.

We know

what is

the right path, the path, you know, to righteousness.

We just choose to deviate from that because we're all human.

We're going to make mistakes.

I'm going to make mistakes.

Today I'll make mistakes.

You'll make mistakes.

you know everybody's going to make mistakes because that's who we are we're not made to be perfect and that's what makes us special too, because through those imperfect moments is where we learn, you know?

Yeah.

No, I love your mindset because a lot of artists tie their identity to their numbers that they're getting, their streams and their plays and their followers.

I think, and there's nothing wrong with that.

I think if they want to feel accomplished and feel proud of what they've done, I think that's beautiful.

I think that's beautiful.

But me, myself personally, I don't care.

I care enough because I want to always go up and I want things to like, I think you're either going up or you're going down.

So I care from a business sense, right?

Because if I don't, then,

you know, I'm not running my business properly.

But as tied to what numbers I'm doing, no, if I have an album that's not a commercial success or whatever, that doesn't mean it's not good.

That doesn't mean five years from now, people won't think this is, oh, this is the greatest album ever or whatever.

They just maybe didn't listen to it, you know?

And there's a lot of music out there that I've heard that people may even forgotten or never listened to.

And, you know so many great songs that whatever so it's just

I think yeah a lot of people tie their stuff to that because that's what they have to hang their hat on and if that's what they have to hang their hat on there's nothing wrong with that I think that that's still that's a beautiful thing you know like like there but me myself personally I think

you know that's might not be my path my path might be not number one my path might not be billboard my path might just be creativity and letting some kind of higher power take over me.

When I make music, I make it fast.

The songs just come to me, it don't feel like me, don't feel like it feels like something else.

Somebody else walked in the room and just boom, starts taking over hands.

It's like you're channeling almost.

I don't know, possibly, you know, but it like so much so that I've made whole albums and then had to go back when I wanted to perform them to like learn how to replay them.

Wow, because I literally forgot not only the words,

the guitar parts that i played everything

and or even what guitar i played it on because the tone's very different and stuff for depending on the guitar and i don't want to get into too much guitar nerd shit because if i do you'll never lose you'll lose me there i'll lose you there and then i'll lose everybody there and trust me because i noticed recently like Even we had Josh Fries in a session.

He was trying to say like, oh, this guitar solo is so dope.

I'm like, that's because it's on a 1963 Jazz Master.

Then run through a big month, da, da, da.

And then my engineer goes like, he doesn't give a fuck what you fucking played it through.

He cares.

He's saying the melody of the guitar is dope here.

And I'm like, oh, oh, my bad.

So I just said, I'll talk guitar nerd shit forever.

I feel like, but yeah, I think there's, there's an aspect of channeling with all creativity stuff.

And I, that's why I think like, can I AI channel?

It's like, do androids dream of electric sheep, you know, like the Philip K.

Dick shit.

So I'm excited to see if we ever get to that point of AI.

And if we do, then i think that's the next stage in evolution and it's like um

you know and if that is the next stage in evolution and we are passed by then we just have to accept we're dinosaurs you know what i mean

and that's fine that's okay we'll see what happens um when's the next album dropping is it this year i think the 16th of whatever this month is of may

That's next week, right?

Because today is the 10th.

Yeah.

May.

Okay.

I got to start from the beginning and kind of mouth.

Time flies, man.

We'll link it below, though.

We'll drop this episode around then.

Anything else you want to close off with here, man?

That's a good question.

I think, like, if you're maybe like a message to like musicians in itself, because I feel like I'm a musician, I'll just say just don't give up, you know?

Like, I think like no matter how many people, I just, or anybody creative, just don't give up, you know?

Like, I don't want to sound like I'll preach you, but just like, don't, don't give up.

Just don't.

Just keep going.

I mean, and something's going to work out.

And even if it doesn't, you know, it's like, um,

it's like the, is that Theodore Roosevelt, the honor lies to the man who's in the arena or whatever.

I don't, I can't quote the whole thing, but it's basically, look up, you'll love it.

And it's, uh, and it just basically said, like,

you know, and you know he'll never know uh what those cold and timid souls who know neither no victory nor defeat and it's like you know so it's like you know the people on the outside can say whatever they want but even if you lose or win doesn't matter just don't give up there's nothing wrong with losing

there's a huge problem not trying

I'd rather lose than not try.

Every day.

100%.

We'll do it.

It's been awesome.

We'll love to to do a part two on these days.

Thanks for coming on.

Um, I appreciate you having me.

Thank you.

We'll link your socials, check them out, guys.

See you next time.