From Champion Coach to Addiction Advocate: A Powerful Journey | Coach Cochran DSH #1187

Migraines, these really bad headaches.

And the doc,

after about two years of writing all kinds of different, you know, blood thinners, let's try this, let's try that, they wrote me Oxie.

Damn.

Headaches?

Yeah, and it worked.

Jeez.

Like, I could coach all day.

All right, guys, special episode today.

I think first time I've had a college coach on.

Coach Cochrane, thanks for coming on today.

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Fired up to be here.

Yeah, one of the most decorated college coaches of all time.

So,

yeah, man.

Pretty cool.

Pretty cool.

Cool to learn from you.

And now you're on a new mission.

Big mission.

Yeah, we'll dive into it.

You were just out here in Vegas exploring the tunnels, right?

Yeah.

Just checked out the tunnels.

A group called Shine Alight took us around Saturday to go feed, give them water, meet them, kind of see where they are, meet them where they are.

Saw some really interesting things.

Yeah.

There was a

there was a guy there that has been there for 10 years.

He

lost his entire house in a hurricane in Puerto Rico, found his way to Las Vegas.

Soon as he landed,

all of his luggage got taken.

Whoa.

So he tried to get a job.

He tried to move.

He tried to shake.

Couldn't.

Found himself in the tunnels yeah and has been there 10 years that's crazy and just talking to him he's not leaving that's his home yeah at that point that's a long time yeah you know we offered him like go to rehab offered him beds and

he was like no i'm good wow yeah he's more comfortable there than rehab or a bed correct interesting and what what i'm finding out talking to the people at shinolight that

if you offer them a bed and they come to they've never had a bed in so long, they freak out for the first like two weeks just trying to understand that like they have a place.

They don't have to go run and chase food.

And so they have to figure out their mindset, how they change the way they think completely because they went from every day, I'm going to go hunt either for a substance or food

and then find a way to get back to that bed that they created.

Wow.

But it was, it was tough because it was their home.

You know, so I was real careful with how I filmed my stuff.

Yeah.

Did they like film like they did?

Oh, they did.

Wow.

As long as you didn't, like, I just didn't feel comfortable filming them or filming their

specific little hole that they've created.

Yeah.

I heard some of them get pretty pissed down there if you film them.

Yeah.

So I stayed away from that.

Did you see a lot of substance use down there?

I didn't see the use, but I saw the paraphernalia.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's a common thing, I bet, down there.

And it's been freezing lately, so they're probably trying things to get by.

Heck yeah, for sure.

Yeah, that's a tough life.

Was there a lot of people down there?

The route that we went, I think we saw probably 20, 25 people.

Oh, that's not as much as I thought.

That felt the same way.

I thought I was going to see a lot more.

Yeah, because there's documentaries about those tunnels with like hundreds of people in them.

Maybe they were just out and about.

Yeah, that's what we were thinking, that they were out and about, either going to go get food, going to go get what they, because it was during the day.

And then also there's 600 miles of tunnels down there damn and we did not cover more than i would say a mile 600 miles 600 miles of tunnels

and a lot of it's all about those mountains right so that's where they the the purpose of it was to get the water to flush through and the water would come down the snow

down so or monsoons so like they could get wiped out at any point if it rains too much yes that's interesting and all their stuff's down there that's it but i guess in vegas it doesn't really rain like that so right that's what i was wondering yeah we don't get much right maybe like a few times a year nothing crazy and even when it does rain it's not a lot right big difference from jersey where i grew up yeah man rained every day there it was a big difference for me i grew up in new orleans you there's nothing under you

if you dig a hole in your backyard you're hitting water wow

new orleans was football big over there growing up?

Yeah, football was big.

The high school I went to, I lost two games as a player,

won two state championships.

Wow.

And then

went and coached at LSU.

And obviously, I rode on Coach Saban's coattails for a while.

Yeah.

Did you want to go the coaching route or did you want to be a player?

At first, I wanted to be a player.

but that didn't work out.

And then

the coaching, as soon as I walked into a high school, I was at LSU and I walked into, I was going into physical therapy.

So I was going to be, both of my brothers are physical therapists.

So I was going to go that route.

And I walked into this high school to volunteer to be a coach within 10 seconds.

I was in love.

Wow.

I mean, in love.

That fast.

Oh, my God.

It was the coolest feeling.

It was like, this is what I'm meant to do.

No doubt, no question.

My coat was off.

My tie was in the corner.

I was coaching the hell out of the kids.

Forgot about the interview with the head coach.

Completely forgot.

Like that wasn't happening, you know?

And so it was, it was really cool.

So you found your purpose.

I found my purpose.

Coaching.

Yeah.

What do you think about coaching just drew you to it?

Helping others, knowing something that they don't know.

And I don't know.

I have a, I have a way of

inspiring.

Yeah.

I think it's a gift that God's given me to inspire others or

that I can get on their level.

I think really what it is, what it is.

Absolutely.

I'd say that's probably part of the reason of your success.

You're doing it for that reason, while some coaches do it for monetary reasons, right?

Or other reasons.

Yeah.

Because you got to think, when I first started coaching,

there wasn't much money in it.

You know, it wasn't something that you're like, oh, that's a great career.

You know,

there were a few outliers.

But not until about 2010, it exploded.

In that range, I'd say 2009 to 10, it just all salaries exploded.

What caused that?

I would say the Sabin effect.

He pushed the envelope.

He

got offered jobs left and right.

And at the time, Alabama wanted to keep him.

You know, he had left LSU.

He'd left the Dolphins.

I think whatever.

And so then it was like, okay, if you have a good coach, you got to take care of him.

And then that coach is like, well, in order for me to be successful, I got to take care of my staff.

So he set the bar high.

Oh, my God.

Yeah.

So he gets a lot of credit, not just being for the awesome coach that he is, but also what he did for college football.

Yeah.

I remember growing up seeing him on TV and just really admiring it, honestly.

Yeah, man.

You know, what he did was

he set the tone.

Yes.

And he did it in so many ways, right?

That was the cool part is like his leadership skills,

his demeanor with players, you know, being from West Virginia, it was almost like he could get on the same level as the guys.

Yeah.

What was the leadership style?

Like, was it a fear-based style?

Was it respect?

What was it?

It was respect.

I think his perception would be fear-based.

I think that's how it looks on the outside.

But he was probably the most genuine and

he would give the player respect.

He would earn their respect.

Really?

Yeah, it was really cool.

Wow.

Like his way of doing it is, hey, I know football and I can help you get to where you're trying to go.

And if I can help you in academics, and if I can help you, like even guys that struggled with substances,

like he took care of them.

Oh my gosh.

He helped so many guys, got so many guys into into rehab.

Wow.

You don't hear about this side of the.

No, like

really,

really, when you say, you know, you hear recruiting pitches in college football and his, his pitch was real, you know?

And I think Kirby is very similar and trying to be that way.

And I've only worked for those two guys, so I can't speak on anybody else, but most of the time it's just a pitch.

Right.

You know, but like he wouldn't kick a kid off if they got in trouble with the law.

Really?

No.

He would send them to rehab if they needed it, or he would get them assessed, get them all assessed, right?

If they had any kind of trouble,

got their parents involved.

And then as a medical team, he would bring the team in after the assessment and say, okay, what is the best move for this kid?

And they would be like, well, are you getting him to, are you trying to get him to play football next year?

Are you trying to get him to play football this season?

And his answer was always like, I could care less about football.

Like, let's take care of him.

And maybe football will be in this future.

Maybe not.

But we promised him four years of education.

He's going to get a degree.

Right.

So let's just help him do those things.

And then maybe football will work.

Wow.

Yeah.

That's, that's incredible.

Yeah, man.

That's who he is.

Outside looking in, you think football is more important than the education force, you know?

Yeah.

Because of the winning, right?

Like, and because you see this, this tyrant, right?

You see this guy on the sideline going crazy, but you rarely see him going crazy on the players.

It was always the coaches.

Wow.

So you had the, oh, yeah.

You would take the heat.

Oh, yeah.

All day.

For the players, I would do anything for them, you know, because in my mind, I was like, I'm the grown man.

I can handle an ass chewing, right?

But these kids are trying to win a game.

They're trying to like.

hit stats.

They're trying to be the greatest thing ever, you know?

Like, I'm going to try to block them if I can.

Yeah, because they probably have such high expectations for the players, right?

Yes.

They got to perform or or they're going to get cut.

Correct.

So it must be pretty, you need to be mentally resilient.

Correct.

Yeah.

And I think, and that's one of the big things that we talked about.

We did these things called skull sessions with the team.

And it would be after workouts.

We would go into a classroom setting and talk about this is how you think, right?

These are the things to get you to become successful in this sport.

Look at what this guy did before you.

Look at this guy.

This is where he struggled and i always use the feel felt found method right i feel where you're coming from i feel your struggle i've felt that same way about something i found that this way will work a little better

than and i also found if i did this it did not work so try to learn not to do it that way but they're kids they're gonna you know everybody learns their own way to mess up your brain's still developing right age and six

that's right yeah i look at the decision that i made in college and it's almost laughable now it's unreal but i was thinking that way yeah you know it's really it's really cool yeah and the first time it's really interesting um because the raiders are here right well the first time i realized um

about the the brain the cerebral cortex the frontal lobe of the suit is not fully developed i really figured that out when amari cooper got drafted to the raiders and he was like

i don't I don't, I'm not driving.

I'm like, so how are you getting around?

Like, you just signed a multi-million dollar deal.

You should just get a car.

And he's like, I'm not comfortable with it with that.

And I was like, well, why don't you just rent a car?

And he goes, that would be a good idea.

I could learn how to do this.

But he was only 21.

Wow.

And so when I saw that, that's when we started developing.

the mental program for football players or for college football players for in my profession right we started developing that because they weren't, their brain wasn't fully functioning.

Yeah.

So you could actually, I'm not going to say brainwash,

but it felt that way because we were teaching them how to positively reinforce and positively talk to themselves.

That's important.

A lot of them are signing big contracts the next year and they could just easily blow all that money.

Correct.

And just the simple things of like, okay, what kind of player do you want to be?

What kind of man do you want to be?

You know, and getting behind a wheel after drinking, like things like that, trying to prevent, because

during that phase, the number one thing I found was peers

drive bad decisions.

You are subject to peer pressure.

If your peers say, it's the old school, right?

If a peer says jump off the bridge, are you going to jump off the bridge, right?

And like in that age, you have to be really strong in your convictions because if you're not, you're going to jump.

Right.

You know what I mean?

Absolutely.

You're more influenceable, right?

Correct.

That's it.

Influenceable.

That's a good word.

Yes.

You're giving all this phenomenal advice to these players.

Meanwhile, you're battling your own demons.

Ooh, was I battling?

My God.

What was going on behind the scenes?

You know, I was getting these migraines, these really bad headaches.

And the doc,

after about two years of writing all kinds of different, you know, blood thinners, let's try this.

Let's try that.

They wrote me Oxy.

Damn.

For headaches?

Yeah.

And it worked.

Jeez.

Like I could coach all day

and my headache wouldn't hurt.

I didn't have to hold back.

I could, it was from like yelling and it would be like a vice between my temples.

And

it worked.

But the doc told me, hey, this is addictive.

I mean, come on.

I'm the head strength coach at Alabama.

I've got two national championships.

I'm strength coach of the year.

Like, I'm, I'm hitting financial positions in life.

Like, I'm winning.

And we're winning on the field.

I'm not going to get addicted, right?

Like, not me.

I'm the mental conditioning, mental and physical conditioning coach.

Like, I'm tough.

That got me.

It got me bad.

It got me so bad that by 2015, I was snorting the pills.

Holy.

Yeah.

Is it more

like effective when you snort it?

Well, in my

addict brain,

because I was getting migraines here, I thought if it went there, it would get there faster.

But it was really just,

it got to my brain faster.

You know what I mean?

The buzz got there faster.

You know, I can give you the excuse of what I used to tell myself, but the reality was, is that I really enjoyed it.

Damn.

And it let me coach all day.

And no one ever knew until I overdosed.

Oh, you didn't tell anyone?

No.

So you were taking it every day for five years.

10 years.

10 years.

Yeah.

Holy crap.

And I got up to about 50 pills a day.

What?

Yeah.

And it was all fentanyl at the end.

Oh my God.

Yeah.

The fact that your body can handle that is insane.

It's nuts.

It makes that's why I'm doing this, right?

And that's why I'm here.

You know, like, I'm not supposed to be here.

I overdosed.

My wife found me dead.

Like,

all this, all the accomplishments,

you know, who cares?

Wow.

You know, so now I want to help others.

That's incredible, man.

Yeah.

I'm sure a lot.

Well, coaching is a stressful job, first of all.

So I'm sure a lot of coaches are dealing with some sort of addiction behind the scenes, right?

Yes, for sure.

And

it's hidden until it's not.

Right?

It's hidden until they do a press conference and they're slurring their words.

You know, it's hidden until, oh, shoot, he got a DUI, you know.

It's hidden until

things start happening at the house, you know, and then all of a sudden

it's gone.

Nuts.

So your wife had no idea.

Sabin had no idea?

No clue.

Were you kind of like feeling shame about telling people?

Very much.

I did not, I couldn't stop.

Like I could not stop.

I wanted to.

I was sick of it.

I wasn't getting getting a buzz anymore.

After about, after about the fifth, sixth year, it wasn't for a buzz.

It was so that I wouldn't be sick.

Damn.

So it was, this is the scary part in addiction.

It was every single day.

Because if there's a day without it, you feel like you have the flu.

And as in the job I had, there was no days off.

I mean, we had spring break.

We had a couple of days, a couple of weeks in May that might be off, you know?

But like right now, like look at college football.

We were always in the hunt every team I've coached at.

So like Christmas was out.

You're not having Christmas with your family.

You know, there's no time.

Damn.

You know, so you get like a two-day break for Christmas, you know, if you get like the 23rd and the 24th.

Not even Christmas Day.

No, because Christmas Day,

you have to get ready for the players that show up on the 26th.

Wow.

Or we have to fly to

the next the bowl game crazy was that tough on your family they they were the hostages so um

addiction you think that it's just affecting you um

but it takes hostages and my family were the hostages wow yeah that's nice man 2020 oh d yep what happens from there so i overdose i'm working for georgia at the time um it's during covid so it was April 10th, 2020.

So I call up Chris Heron.

Chris Heron is in Massachusetts.

He's got a rehab.

He was the guy who played for the Celtics.

There's a 30 for 30 on him.

He was a heroin addict.

And so I had gotten to know him beforehand because he was a motivational speaker.

And so I, and so we called him.

I went to rehab for 30 days,

thought I had it licked.

COVID lifts.

I go back back to Georgia.

And I just remember doing a press conference.

I was two months sober, and I killed the press conference.

I did a really good job.

And that,

that

kind of that juice I got from it, I wanted more.

It wasn't headaches anymore.

I couldn't blame headaches.

And when you go to rehab, they kill all your doctors.

So they tell the docs that you've been using, like, hey, this guy's got a problem.

Stop writing him stuff.

Or we're sending the FBI to you.

Whoa.

Right.

So it's opiate.

So the docs were like, okay, we're done.

Like, we'll never write something for him again.

And so I went to the street, and that's when my pill intake skyrocketed.

Damn.

Yeah.

So that's when my pill intake went from 25 to 50 really fast.

Because they're not as strong on the street.

Because

they are short-lived because it's fentanyl oh god it's not you're no longer i'm i thought it was at one point early i thought it was oxy or percocets but it was all fentanyl damn it's nothing but fentanyl um

and fentanyl what it is is a higher high

but it's short-lived you got to keep taking it so you got to keep going and really it's mental you mentally think oh i'm going to get withdrawals if i don't snort another

you know 60 milligrams or 90 milligrams.

Just, and it's, you know, this is the stuff that people don't want to talk about, you know, because when you think of an addict, you think of somebody that is in the tunnels.

You don't see the successful guy with eight national championships,

you know, killing it financially.

The white picket fence family, you know,

you just don't see that.

And that's everyday life.

People are battling right now, and that's why I'm speaking on it.

Yeah, it's because people need to know, like, you're not alone.

If you need help, there are ways to get help, you know.

Yeah, no, I think this is a much-needed message, man.

I really appreciate you being so open.

Yeah, man, it's not, it's

not easy, but it's necessary, right?

You know, agreed.

So, you get back on it.

Do you end up back at rehab?

So, I go to rehab 2021,

back to rehab, but this time I do like a hundred 110-day

100 to say 100-day stay.

Um,

and man, I felt good.

I'm like, I got the Holy Spirit, I got all these things, man, I got Jesus, you know what I mean?

Like, I'm killing it, I feel good.

Uh, and then we win two national championships back to back with Georgia, right?

Yeah, with Georgia, and so my goal was always 10 to win 10 national championships.

And I'm 45, right?

I got eight.

2023 season comes

and I'm at two and a half years sober.

And I'm looking at my goal like, man, I'm going to get to 10 before I even turn 50.

My ego starts getting, it just starts.

And that ego tells me,

what are y'all going to tell me if I use drugs again?

I'm killing it again.

Like, I'm going to have 10 national championships before I'm 50 years old.

Nobody's got that, right?

Like, no shot that somebody's going to get that.

And I'm actually going to achieve this.

I called a guy up, started using again.

Wow.

Yeah.

So that's what caused me in January to go to Kirby, Coach Smart, and say, hey,

I need to get out.

I need to reassess what I'm doing.

Wow.

So that's what caused the retirement in February?

Yep.

Dang.

Cause you were at the top of your game.

Yeah.

You know, eight titles.

That's a very few company, right?

Right.

Yeah.

And so

I just felt like if I can get the, if I can get these young men to work out when they don't want to work out, right?

They don't want to do the stuff that I've had to push them through.

What about if I tried to get them to get help in recovery?

What if I can help change some legislation to help people that are in active addiction?

Because the numbers don't lie, right?

There's 29 million Americans that are in recovery, but then there's 46 million that are in active addiction.

Damn.

Yeah.

And these are just numbers from the government, right?

So it could be even higher.

I believe it's higher.

And they say, and from those same,

that same group, it says 107,000 overdose deaths last year in the U.S.

Wow.

In 2022, it was 109,000.

Again,

they're not including suicide.

They're not including some of the other things that, you know,

substance with drinking, you know, the accidents with drinking.

So it's the number one killer between the ages of 18 and 45.

Substance abuse.

Substance.

Yep.

Overdose.

Overdose deaths.

Wow.

It's the number one killer.

I mean, we don't need World War III.

We're killing an entire generation.

Yeah, these numbers are staggering.

I didn't know it was this bad.

46 million a year addicted in the U.S.

That's like 15% of the population.

Correct.

And that's just people admitting it.

That's exactly right.

That's people admitting it and probably trying to figure it out.

And this thing takes hostages.

Right.

So if you add both numbers up, right, the 29 and the 46,

right?

And then you say, okay, like my family, I was five in my family.

They're, they're hostages.

They were in captivity.

They just didn't know it.

You know, once they saw me just drown and say, I need help.

Like, that's the biggest thing in addiction, right?

You have to get to a point where you just say, I need help and let everyone help you.

But if you just raise your hand and say, I need help.

God, let people help.

Just let people help you.

Give them that blessing, right?

Because, because if, you know, if you had something going on, car broke down and you said, hey, I need help.

I'd be fired up to go help you.

You know what I mean?

Like, that's a blessing for me.

Like, let me help somebody else.

Yeah, I think people's ego gets in the way, right?

Yes.

And they don't want to ask for help.

Exactly right.

Because it makes them look weak.

That's it.

But I think everyone goes through low points in life.

It's unavoidable.

And if they just learn that it's okay to ask for help, it's okay to say, hey, I'm struggling with something.

Let the miracle happen.

People will come running to your aid.

Yeah, because if you didn't ask, who knows what would have happened, right?

Correct.

If I wouldn't have had the one overdose, if I wouldn't have in January asked, like, I need help.

And it took time, right?

The official resignation wasn't until February 14th.

You know, it took time.

Like, Coach Smart's like, well, what do we do about your position?

What do we do?

Are you going to work a little bit?

And I was like, I'm done.

But it took time to get there.

You know, it took time to actually, you know, it was a lot of

say sacrifice, but it was an investment I decided to invest in myself and into my family.

Yeah.

Um,

because you're only on this thing once, you know, absolutely, you know, and winning those eight national championships, it's awesome, it's great, it's cool, but like,

what's next?

You're done for good.

We'll see.

I mean, I can't say 100% no because you never know.

But

I can say that right now,

the nonprofit that I started, that I'm involved with, is

very beneficial to the world.

It's very fulfilling.

You can impact way more people than you can as a college coach.

Correct.

Right.

And so

that's the beauty of it.

I love it.

And I like going into places where most people won't, you know, like the tunnels here.

That was brave of you, by the way.

And then I went to Kensington, Philadelphia, where xylosine, which is the zombie drug, I mean, I was in the thick of it.

I haven't heard of that one.

Oh, it's, it's the new drug that like fentanyl mixed with something.

So it's literally a tranquilizer.

It's a horse tranquilizer.

And it was easier to get across the border at one point than it was from Columbia to get the cocaine.

So they changed to

Trank is what it's called, you know?

That stuff's no joke.

My dad used to take a horse tranquilizer.

I would walk into his bedroom, he'd be yelling at the wall.

Yes, I got some childhood memories of that, yeah, and that stuff's no joke, no joke, it's scary, scary stuff, and it's and it's in every major city right now.

Oh, yeah, I just went to uh, I think San Diego, yeah, San Diego.

There was more homeless people than people walking around there, and they were all like so out of it.

Yeah, some drug over there, zombie, yeah, that's it.

That's it, zombie drug, yeah, scary stuff, really scary, and they get these sores,

um,

these sores that the capillaries, the blood flow can't fix them.

So if you just get a nick on your neck, just as a little cut,

it turns into a huge

problem.

That's crazy.

You know, and they're homeless.

Yeah.

And they need companies and charities like you because the city gets a ton of funding and it goes nowhere close to the homeless people.

Correct.

You know, you got Cali getting billions of dollars.

That's right.

And there's more homeless than before.

Yeah.

It's, it's, it's a sad system.

And that's why the nonprofit is so big because it's not going to be just the little cookie cutter.

We're going to go try to fix some of those laws.

Yeah.

I mean, we've got to save some lives and kind of eliminate the stigma, eliminate the whisper of addiction.

Yeah, because some people have a negative feeling towards homeless people, right?

For sure.

They just see them as like drug addicts, like we said earlier.

And where were they five years before then?

Were they me?

Where they had a successful business or a successful life?

Did they have a They have a great job and hard times just fell on them and they started using a little bit and then a little bit.

And then all of a sudden, they're a train wreck, right?

People don't see the human side of those,

you know?

So if we can get in front of it right before you take that first pill or right when you get that surgery or whatever, you know, let people know, like, hey, there's help.

Absolutely.

So AARA, is this your charity right here?

American Addiction Recovery Association.

Nice.

So visit 50 state capitals, overdose reversal boxes.

Nice.

The big one, the big one that I'm most excited about is the purple project.

So Susan G.

Komen, we know what she did for breast cancer, right?

In October, you see athletes and people wearing pink in October.

Well, recovery is purple and September is our month.

So I'm trying to get everybody to wear purple in the month of September.

So I've gotten some college football teams.

They're in.

I've gotten some NFL, some good feedback from NFL, and I'm going after every high school.

I got you, man.

I'll wear purple on the pod that month.

Let's go, baby.

Let's go.

I got to order some digital social art purple suits.

Let's go.

Heck yeah, man.

That's cool.

Yeah, I like that.

I like purple.

Purple is a good color.

It's like royalty, baby.

Yeah, not a lot of people wear purple.

Uh-uh.

Which one of the eight felt the best?

Um,

God, I'd have to say 2009.

Okay, one of the earlier ones.

Yeah, 2009, we were undefeated.

We went and played Texas in a national championship.

I was at Alabama.

And

you just don't know until it happens, right?

You don't know if all the stuff you've been doing, all the stress, all the time, all the things, you just don't know, like, is this really going to work?

Was that the first one?

That was the second one.

That was the second one.

Yeah.

But it was a brand new system.

I was now the head strength coach.

I was important to the,

I'm sure I wasn't important as an assistant, but it was just a bigger role.

And it was just like, okay,

not that we've arrived, but it's working.

Like now I can

stand on all 10 toes and say, this is the right way.

Right.

It doesn't mean there's better ways.

We'll adapt and improvise, but

stuff we're doing actually works absolutely and so that was a huge

that was a huge moment for me yeah breakthrough moment for you for sure really was did the nil change the player coach dynamic in your opinion

yes um but i think even before the nil it's changed because

The coaches are just trying to move up the ladder too.

You know, like couple chairs, right?

Yeah.

So like if they're a position coach at a Georgia or an Alabama, they're trying to be a coordinator.

They're probably not going to be a coordinator at that school.

So they're going to recruit at a high level because that's what coaches are looking for.

Can you recruit?

Can you call the offense or defense, right?

That's what head coaches are looking for.

And then once you get to the coordinator position, you're trying to become a head coach because you're talking about.

millions of dollars.

So the relationship between player and coach just doesn't exist.

Wow.

I didn't even think about that.

But yeah, the coaches are just swapping universities every year.

That's why

I would love for the NIL to take a look at the coaches, right?

If you made,

I don't know if I should be talking about this.

I might get in trouble.

But honestly, if you made every head coach, they're pay the same.

If you were in a power four or at a fifth conference, whatever, if you were a power five, big time school, every head coach makes, say, five million dollars a year.

So now, uh-oh, what's the difference between coaching at Georgia Tech

to Alabama?

They're making the same amount of money as the head coach.

And then your coordinators, they all make a certain amount, whatever that is.

Say every coordinator makes a million, and then position coaches make 500.

Now, all of a sudden, athletic directors aren't as quick to fire somebody

or they're going to fire them.

That's fine.

They don't lose a bunch of money.

But

the coaches will sit tight for a minute because they have some like, AD's going to keep us here, even if we have one bad season.

Right.

Right.

It just turns into a,

and then it'll trickle down.

Because then the players and the coaches now instead of, okay, I'm going to recruit this superstar player.

It's going to be, it's like a

notch on the belt.

So now by next year, I'll be able to leave and go somewhere else.

But what about the kid?

The kid got recruited by you for two years.

You were in that kid's, in their home.

You've developed a relationship.

And now they show up on campus.

And the only person that they, the closest person they have a relationship with is taking a job.

Wow.

So what do you expect the kid to do?

You know, like the kid's stuck.

Yeah, no mentorship, right?

No mentorship.

And he, of course, you go because it's a great university and the education and all this stuff, but relationships why you go to a school, you know, and you try to get the relationship with the players that are coming in together, like trying to get them to team up.

And that was easier during COVID because there wasn't a lot of social stuff going on.

So they could really bond.

But that COVID's done.

So if I'm getting recruited for two years, because you start getting recruited at the end of your sophomore year if you're a baller.

Yeah.

Sophomore year, that end of that season.

If you're a good player, you start getting recruited.

You start getting questions like, are you good enough?

Junior year, you've got relationships.

Senior year, you're just deciding where you're going because of those relationships.

That's three years.

And if you're a really good player,

that helps that coach.

He'll be a coordinator before you even walk in a door.

Wow.

He's gone.

And if he's not, you may have him for a year.

So I think it's, if you could make some stability in coaching, I think it would fix your NIO.

It'll not fix your NIO, but it'll fix your transfer portal.

Yeah, that is fascinating.

I did not know that was going on.

Yeah.

You know, and then you got the players.

Some of them are making more than the coaches now.

So that dynamic is, I feel like there's a lack of respect sometimes.

I think respect is kind of earned regardless of the situation, you know?

And I think

everybody's chasing the dollar.

Coaches are chasing the dollar now.

Like when I first got into coaching, coaches didn't make money.

They didn't.

It wasn't, it wasn't like, oh, I'm going to be rich.

I'm going to be a college coach.

I'm going to be rich.

No, it was, man, I can really help these kids out.

Man, I have something to offer, right?

I bring value to this organization.

Now it's like

everybody sees the money.

Yeah.

You know,

that shows with your track record.

You stayed at the same teams for many years.

You probably were getting offers the whole time of better money, right?

Yeah.

The best offer I got was the Yankees.

Oh, Yankees.

Damn, that's baseball.

You're not even a baseball coach.

That was my coolest offer.

That was the best one.

Wow.

Did you have to think about that one?

I'm not a big fan of the cold, and I'm not a big baseball guy.

And I think to be a strength coach for for baseball, you have to love baseball.

It's a different type of strength training, too.

Yes.

It's not full-body like football.

Right.

Exactly right.

But you did have an NBA stand, right?

Yep.

I did three years in the NBA.

It was with the New Orleans Hornets, who are the Pelicans now.

Had really good players.

Was that with Chris Paul?

Chris Paul.

Yep.

His rookie year.

I had him his rookie year in his second year.

David West, Tyson Chandler, J.R.

Smith.

Nice.

And Paja Stoyakovic.

One of my favorites.

Those are some hoopers hoopers right there.

Yeah, man.

We had a good squad.

How'd you like that compared to football?

It was easy.

Really?

Yeah.

I mean, you go from 130 players to 15.

I mean, you were tired because of the late nights after games, flying to the next city.

But you developed real relationships with players.

And so you could really help them get through bumps and bruises.

You could help them when they were struggling with, even if it was a financial thing, you know, because they weren't used to having the money and didn't know how to handle this and had agents pulling at them.

You know, you got to really develop relationships.

So it was a great job.

That's cool.

Well, you've done that with your college players too, because we met through one of your former players.

That's cool that you're still talking with your old college.

Always, always.

I got, uh, I actually got to go visit Henry Ruggs while I was here.

Nice.

Oh, and that was,

man, that was

it was tough yeah yeah yeah what happened with him so he was he was a wide receiver here at the raiders and got

uh killed somebody in a car accident oh i saw this yeah drunk driving right driving damn yeah

so uh

we did all the had to go through all the different hoops security and all that to go see him and uh man he uh

just tough yeah tough crazy that one decision can change your life so much and then and to see the progression, I can't wait for people to hear his story when he is able to tell it, you know?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, because no one's ever heard his side, actually.

Right.

The media just painted their side.

Right.

And

what got him there, right?

And how easily and how quickly it can happen to anybody.

Yeah.

So, yeah, when he gets, when he's available, he's going to jump in with my organization for sure.

Nice.

I'm going to grab him, you know?

Yeah.

Did you, did you have a good eye for talent when you were coaching?

Like, did you know certain people were going to take off?

I did.

I feel like I can read people really well

off kind of in early.

Sometimes I'm way wrong and I, and I get played.

So I've had to, I've had to figure that out.

But yeah, I can, I can see talent.

You know, everybody talks about what's the most athletic, you know, sport and all.

And to me, it's basketball.

Really?

Yes.

The best.

And that's coming from a football coach.

Yeah, the best athletes are basketball.

They're hoopers.

So if you know, if you're, if you're recruiting or if you're with a player and they're like, oh, yeah, I played high school basketball.

It's like, okay, he's, he's, he's a baller.

You know, like, it's just, it fits.

The only other movement would be a DB.

DB would be second to me.

Okay.

You have to run backwards.

And you need good hand-eye coordination.

Yeah.

Wow.

Coming from a football coach.

yeah that's a hot take yeah man because football there's always that question with football and basketball who's more athletic right basketball for sure well football players are stronger and some of them are a lot of them are fast correct and uh i'd say basketball they jump higher they're more explosive right i think i think if you define what an athlete is right it's ankle flexibility it's hip mobility hip movement and every single basketball player has to have that right whereas in football your running backs don't need it as much.

Your offensive line don't need it as much.

Your D-line don't need it as much.

Right.

So, like,

your DBs need it, but that ankle flexibility to me is kind of defines and your vert kind of defines your athleticism.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think explosiveness is a big part of it.

Right.

So, like, so, yeah, it's an easy take for me.

I love it, man.

You need that ankle flexibility.

You saw what happened to Max Crosby, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, that's true.

Tough.

I got to see Brock Bowers last night, though.

Nice.

One of my former players.

Yeah, you probably have a player on every single team at this point.

I didn't have one on the Falcons.

No, I did.

He was, I did have one on the Falcons.

I was like, wait, I didn't know anybody in there.

Rashawn Evans is there.

But yeah, I have one on every team for sure.

That's insane.

Yeah.

It's awesome to see him thrive, you know?

Yeah.

You knew them when they were young.

Oh, when they were trying to figure it out, when they were writing the goals down, right?

When they were putting their goals on my whiteboard, like, I want to be the first pick in the draft i want to be a pro bowl wow yeah like i want to do this that's special yeah and so like i i get to see the

you know and they don't reach out they reached they reached out when they heard i was struggling oh really yeah i got a lot of love that's cool yeah a lot of love on that i mean that shows you really played a role in their life then you know it made me feel good for sure yeah i bet yeah well dude what's next for you i want to do some charity stuff with you next time you're in vegas yeah um so we're going to try to hit all 50 states.

And you can find us on eliminate the whisper.com.

That's our website.

And anything in the purple project, you know, I want purple to be a big,

I just think that if you put purple

out there, people are going to ask questions.

Whether if it's a volleyball player wearing a purple headband right in season, whether it's a football player wearing a purple eliminate the whisper.com mouthpiece, right or purple socks like i'm talking about high school all the way through the nfl and then every sport why not you know because

let's get the stigma out yeah like that's what we're trying to do is just eliminate the stigma stop look back in the days in the 40s and 50s if you got cancer you got fired really yeah wow because they didn't understand it with it it's 2024 it's going to be 2025 in a week right yeah like

we're talking about if you have someone that's battling addiction, what happens to them?

They get fired.

They lose their job, right?

They, they, they are shunned.

Like, listen, when I, when I went to rehab, my wife didn't get a casserole from the neighborhood.

You know what I'm saying?

Nobody, nobody brought her chocolates or nobody said, hey, I hope you're doing okay.

Right.

It was like, oh, shoot, your husband has an addiction problem.

I'm worried that maybe somebody in my family has it, so I don't want to be anywhere near you.

You know?

So anything to eliminate the stigma, you know?

And y'all have really good recovery here.

Really?

Yeah.

Oh, I didn't know that.

Yeah, y'all have a high school here

where it's just recovery.

What?

Yeah.

I didn't know that.

Well, it makes sense in Vegas.

We got a lot of vices out here.

Right.

Gambling, drinking.

Right.

And so.

Any way I can eliminate stigma, I'm all in.

Let's do it, man.

We'll link your charity below.

Awesome.

Yeah, appreciate it.

Yeah, man.

Thank you.

That was fun, guys.

Check it out.

See you next time.