The Hidden Cost of Success Most Founders Won't Admit | Divij Vaswani DSH #1020

I love people watching too.

Yeah, it's fun.

You learn a lot from it.

I'd be observing people.

Like, what are some of your big takeaways?

Micro expressions, so like facial expressions.

I could tell like if they're confident, if they're like maybe depressed, even just based off facial expressions and body language.

This stuff's really important for me.

What happens when your father, your mother, your sister, your cousin is the person that's talking to the waiter in a poor manner?

You know, do you reprimand them?

Like, do you say, like, yo, you shouldn't be talking to this person this way?

You can't bring the, what is it?

You can't feed the horse, but you can bring the water to the horse to the water yeah yeah yeah i feel that

all right guys from la division vozwani here today thanks for coming on man absolutely i'm super excited to be here we've been chatting for a while now yeah i've known about who you were because we have mutual friends but um never had a chance to actually meet you so i'm excited to just

meeting that's the power podcast man for sure people you talk to for years online you finally get to sit down chop it up yeah you know

but yeah i've heard about you for a while now and you've really integrated yourself well in the space.

Thank you.

You got a great reputation.

Thank you.

Is that something you were people are saying good things?

Yeah.

I've never heard about it.

Makes me happy.

Which is props to you, man.

Thank you, bro.

Because in LA, there's a lot of shit talk.

Yeah, man.

Reputation is everything.

I think, you know, especially when you start doing business seriously, you realize like this is a long-term game.

This is not, we're not here for a week, for a month.

We're here for a year.

For not for a year, for longer than a year, for decades, for decades.

And so I think for me, like, I'm playing the long game.

I'm all about about people.

I think as I've gotten deeper in my faith, I've realized too, like, this is all we got.

You know what I'm saying?

Like, you can't take the money with you.

It's just a tool.

And so for me, it's, it's glory to God.

And I'm just excited to sit down and have cool conversations.

Yeah, it sounds like you value relationships more than money.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Money comes, man.

It's like, I think when you treat people fairly and you bring value, like significant value, which is making other people money, connecting people, whatever it may be, I mean, the money will flow.

And it's like, you can't take it with you.

You know what I'm saying?

Like, obviously, it would be great to have millions and millions and millions to pass along to the next generation, but you can't take it with you, man.

Like, I care about my people, and that's it.

Did you have this belief when you weren't as financially set to?

No, I was, um, my story is pretty interesting.

I mean, I think we all have a similar journey in the sense of a lot of us struggle with ego and pride, right?

Especially in your early 20s.

And I started making a lot of money.

And I was like, dude, I'm getting the nicest cars, like the nicest watches.

And I was just focused on on the wrong things.

But

I think it definitely, you know, I had to go through some stuff.

I had to go through some pain and some suffering before I could, um, before I could learn how to truly live and exist.

And I think after that pain and suffering, when I found God, that's truly when it changed for me.

Like it, it went from the ego mind to being led by the Holy Spirit and humility.

And that's all that matters.

Wow, that's powerful.

I definitely want to hear that story.

Yeah, I've been studying materialism and like the mindset behind it.

It seems like it kind of puts you out of touch with spirit, with spirituality.

Yeah.

When you're down that road, I haven't seen someone super materialistic, but also super spiritual.

For sure.

It's a rare thing.

Yeah.

I think you can, I think it's okay to like nice things.

Like if, you know, you want to provide for your family, you want to give them the best experiences.

You want to take, you know, your mom around the world and, you know, make sure everyone's comfortable.

And I think money is the tool that makes those things happen.

But

it's not, it shouldn't be your God.

It shouldn't be what you wake up and you praise, you know?

Yeah.

So I think that's the difference is when you praise the Lord and you walk on his path for you the money will flow man it's just like just comes you know so my earlier 20 similar to you all about money that was my number one goal I put it over family friends and my own health even I wasn't going to the gym wasn't working out wasn't doing anything and my mental health was complete shit also from that so you can't be laser focused on just money for sure a lot of sacrifice a lot of yeah for sure health is the first the first thing i mean i was on the plane over here this morning and i'm looking at the guy next to me he's probably in his 70s or 80s And I'm thinking, I'm like, this guy's had a whole life.

He's sitting here.

He's watching the news.

He had the news on his computer or on the airplane screen, but he fell asleep within two minutes.

And I'm looking at him.

I'm kind of observing.

I'm like, what's important?

Like the money on the screen right now, like Fox News talking about what's happening on Wall Street or this guy's bodily organs.

Like, you know what I mean?

And so.

Again, back to the money.

Money is great, but if you're on your deathbed, bro, it's like, it doesn't matter.

I love people watching too.

Yeah, it's fun.

You learn a lot from it.

When I'm at the airport or in public, I'd be observing people.

What are some of your most common, I guess, observances?

Like, I'm switching the podcast.

Back to you.

No, you're good.

Like, what do you notice about people?

Like, what are some of your big takeaways?

Micro expressions, so like facial expressions.

I could tell like if they're confident, if they're like maybe depressed even, just based off facial expressions and body language.

I look at how they treat people.

So if they're with someone, I see how they're talking to them.

That kind of shows me like their leadership style.

And this is stuff I'm observing before I even film with my guests normally.

I look at how they treat my staff because sometimes I have my assistant here or something.

I see if they talk to them the same way as me.

And for me, that's a huge thing.

Like treat everyone the same.

When I'm at restaurants, I see how they treat the server.

This stuff's really important for me.

For sure.

100%, man.

It's so important.

Like people, you know what's interesting?

I was thinking about this.

What is what happens when it's your family member that's the piece of shit?

You know what I mean?

Like what happens when your father, your mother, your sister, your cousin is the person that's, you know, talking to the waiter in a poor manner?

How do you deal with that?

Right.

And I, that's something I've been kind of trying to figure out is like, you know, do you reprimand them?

Like, do you say like, yo, you shouldn't be talking to this person this way?

And I've been praying about it because I have someone very close in my family that operates that way.

And it is terrible because I.

I'm very kind to people.

Like any person I see, you know, I try to be as kind as I say thank you, you know, and make sure they feel seen.

So I've been praying about it.

And I think what I've learned is you just have to be the example and you just have to lead with kindness.

And hopefully, the people around you will

realize it and do it themselves.

But you can't bring the, what is it?

You can't feed the horse, but you can bring the water to the horse to the water.

Yeah, yeah, I forgot.

No, facts, though.

And that's, I think boundaries are important in that situation.

So with my family, I have strict boundaries with business stuff because they're not entrepreneurs.

So I love my family, but they try to give me advice in entrepreneurship.

It's not, it's not conducive.

Like it's not, it's not going to work most of the time because they haven't haven't been down that path.

I'd rather get advice from someone that's an entrepreneur.

So I think boundaries are important.

And if they're treating people like shit at a restaurant, it's really hard to change people, man.

So I'm probably just not even going to go out with you to eat anymore.

Yeah.

I feel that, man.

Boundaries is something I've been struggling with for sure.

I mean, that's like probably the hardest thing in my life right now is,

you know,

you got two parents, right?

And they're, that's all you got, your mom and your dad.

And they brought you into this world with the grace of God.

And I think,

you know, you, I think for me, it's, I struggle with, I really want to give them the best life because they've worked so hard for me to be where I'm at.

But you also got to remember, like, you've got your own priorities.

You got to go to the gym, you got to eat healthy, you got to work, and you got to balance all these things.

And so, something that's just something I've been kind of trying to figure out is how much time is enough with the people that I love.

And I think what I'm realizing is every day I kind of just in the evening, I'll observe and kind of look back at the day and I'm like, I'll kind of like do a self-reflection.

And I think that's been super helpful, like micro self-reflection to understand if my time is being spent the most wisely.

Yeah, that's so relatable, man.

I was such a giver growing up.

I used to put everyone before me and it ate at me, man.

I realized I had to put myself first in certain situations.

For sure.

So that was a big learning lesson.

But I always wanted a people, please.

I don't know if it was some childhood trauma or something, but that was how I thought.

Growing up with friends, with family, I wanted to put them before me.

But that's not sustainable in the long run.

It's not.

God gave us one holy temple and we got to take care of it.

And if we don't take care of it, no one's going to do it for us.

Yeah.

It was tough though because I lived that way for years.

So that was a habit.

Yeah.

It comes with growth.

Are you 25, 26?

Yeah, we're about the same age.

I mean, I think I didn't get it till just now.

Yeah.

I mean, like, it took me a while to really understand and realize how to even exist.

And I think I'm just finally getting it.

Yeah.

Life's a constant.

game of learning, right?

You're never completed, in my opinion.

You're always figuring stuff out.

The guy who started KFC, I think, was like 75 when he started it.

I saw that.

So, you know, you never know when it's your time.

You really don't, man.

I've lost some people almost every year now that are young.

Lost, like, dead?

I'm so sorry.

Yeah, but I feel like that's more and more common these days with the health epidemic and everything.

You know, we're hearing of people passing away every year at this point.

Yeah.

It's so unfortunate, man.

And I think it truly, and I'm so sorry for your loss.

Oh, thank you.

But I think it comes down to like how you view death, right?

Like I've been, so my mom had a double lung transplant.

She had idiopathic, yeah, pretty insane.

She had idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis, which is terminal scarring of the lungs.

So your lungs just start deteriorating.

And she got a lung transplant.

Glory to God, she's still alive.

But that pain and suffering taught me like truly, again, what's important, which is the people around you and your friends and your family.

And I think we just have to do everything we can do on a daily basis to control what we can control, which is lifestyle, what we consume, how much we sleep, what we eat, how much time we spend in the gym, and just these simple things, hydration levels.

And, you know, I'm no biohacking expert, but I'm trying my best.

Like, I'm listening to Huberman, I'm listening to Ben Greenfield, and I'm trying to just like take in all this knowledge because, especially as a man, bro, like, I read a quote, it said, men are not designed to be happy.

Women are meant are to be, are designed to be happy.

It's our job to make sure that they are happy.

And so I think what that kind of taught me was, you know, I agree with it and I don't agree with it.

I think we do need to be happy and i think that comes with discipline it comes when we're chasing things i think as men like we're our best selves when we're aligned on our purpose you know yeah and so that's just try to what i try to focus on is making money uh bringing glory to god focusing on my family and working out love it that's it work out baby that's all that matters baby we in the gym yeah sean strickland actually tweeted this i'm not sure if you saw this about the men's mental health how men are not designed to be happy he's getting a lot of pushback on it really this was like a few days ago that's might have might have been where i saw it it might have been yeah i thought it was interesting i think i think we're all designed to to enjoy happiness though yeah i don't think we're set to not be happy i agree with you i i just think it's

i agree with you i think we all should be happy we should all aim to be happy but i don't know there's something about that quote kind of stuck i was like you know we're the providers like we got to be disciplined we got to be focused we got to be structured and that's our job i mean is to to provide for others but not at at the expense of happiness.

I agree with you.

We should still be happy.

Absolutely.

Where are you on your journey with happiness?

It's a daily struggle, man.

I think

what I've been dealing with recently is I'm a morning person.

So if I'm up at 4 a.m., 5 a.m.

I'm feeling really good about the day.

Like, I feel like my dopamine levels are high.

I'm, you know, just feeling good.

But the days where I wake up maybe later, I'm kind of like, my happiness levels go down.

And so it kind of comes down to a day-to-day basis.

I think,

you know, if my day starts off with being grateful, I'm able to journal and meditate and read the word.

Right now I'm in Genesis, just kind of revisiting how the world started.

And,

you know, today was a beautiful morning.

I woke up at five, hopped on a plane, spent the first few hours with God.

But the days where I don't spend time with God in the morning, I realize I'm just not as happy those days.

Wow.

And so that's been the hack for me is as long as I have time to learn about the word and about God and read scripture, I'm good.

That's crazy.

So it's a daily battle with you.

It's a joke honesty.

Yeah, it's a daily battle, man.

I mean, I think I don't do therapy.

You know, I think the other thing I'll say is the days that I box, like when I'm punching stuff, I'm feeling great.

That's a stress reliever, probably.

So it sounds like you're stressed out.

Just, you know how it is.

I mean, you're building a company and stress comes and goes.

You just have to manage it.

Yeah.

I feel the same, though.

I'm in a couple basketball leagues.

The days I play, I'm super pumped.

Like I feel great after, especially after a sauna session.

Yeah.

So yeah, I don't think happiness is like a permanent state of mind.

I agree with you.

It's not.

It might be for some people.

I think some people might just be wired in certain ways and some of us are wired differently.

But by no means am I depressed.

Like I'm actually, I'm very happy.

I'm very grateful, right?

Like that's, it's all mindset.

Yeah.

But there's days.

I have my days.

Yeah.

Gratitude's important for sure.

I have a gratitude journal.

Do you write down every day?

Yeah, five to ten things every day for the past four years now.

And it's incredible.

The days I don't write it down, I actually notice that I'm off.

Yeah.

It's that noticeable at this point.

Can I ask you?

You don't have to tell me, but are you writing down a lot of the same things every day?

They come up.

Like, obviously, my fiancé, my dogs, my loved ones come up probably once a week, but I try to mix it up.

I try to be grateful for as many things as possible.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What about you?

It's mostly my mom, my dad, my sister, you know, my girlfriend and the people and God, obviously.

Those are like my top five.

But some days I'll find myself adding in something just random.

Like I'm grateful for my coffee or I'm grateful for like, you know, the curtains, like whatever.

It's the little things, right?

Yeah.

Because we live such a fast-paced lifestyle.

We rarely, well, now it sounds like you're reflecting more, but for me, I wasn't reflecting for a while.

Yeah.

And I got normalized to like life's life almost.

Even though I had this huge house, you know, great friends, great people.

I never sat down and thought about it.

Isn't that crazy?

Crazy.

Have to reflect.

Have to.

It's so impactful, bro, too.

Like, I'll be honest with you.

I had a moment this morning where

I was a bad dater.

Like, I was a bad boyfriend in my last relationship.

I dated this girl for six years.

I cheated on her.

I was a piece of shit.

Whoa.

Right.

Because I was young.

I mean,

I didn't know who God was.

I wasn't on the right path.

I was being led by my ego.

But this morning, I got this new book yesterday by Chad Veach, who's my pastor at Zoe.

It's called, This Book Is Not About You.

And it's about how you can go from your pride mindset to your humility mindset.

And as soon as I opened the book, I started bawling, bro.

On the plane.

I'm just like crying, sitting there crying.

And I'm just writing down.

I pulled out my journal and I started just, you know, going crazy on like what was coming out of my brain.

And it was a realization.

I was reflecting and it was a realization of the hurt that I caused my ex because of my pride.

And now I have a new girlfriend and, you know, through that experience, I've learned how to treat other people and I would never make the same mistakes again.

But I think it's important to reflect because you

get to forgive yourself.

You know, you get to kind of understand where you went wrong.

And then you just don't make the same mistake again.

Like, we're all human.

We all fucked up.

I really appreciate that, honestly, because a lot of people talk negatively about their ex and they put the blame on them usually.

You're doing the opposite.

You got to take ownership.

Everything that's happened in my life is my fault.

Everything that's gone wrong is my fault.

Everything.

Besides maybe, you know, my mom's disease, obviously that wasn't my fault.

But like, you know, the worldly things that I'm doing or that I'm interacting with, it's all on me.

And like, once you have the ownership and you take charge of that, your life is just like, bro, the weight off the shoulders.

You know what I mean?

Facts.

Just feel relieved, bro.

And you, like the Bible says, cast your anxiety to God.

And that's what I do.

I had a victim mindset for a majority of my life, and it was toxic, man.

I never took ownership for messing up.

But yeah, now I'm probably similar to you.

I'll take ownership, and it feels great.

I can own up to it and then fix it and address it.

A hundred percent, man.

It's the victim mindset is just, it's weakness.

And we all go through that phase, I think.

But the earlier you realize this, the better your life becomes.

Yeah.

It's easy to get in that phase.

I wonder why that's happening to so many people, actually.

I don't know.

I wish I had the answers.

I think the world is a hard place, bro.

Like there's so much pressure now with social media.

Like, you know, you wake up, you look at your phone, people are killing it.

You see Jake Paul doing all these crazy things.

You're like, oh, like, I'm 28.

What am I doing?

And I think that leads to just a cycle of, you know, you putting yourself down and negative self-talk.

And I think people, it's just a hard time, bro.

But I think if you align yourself with the right community, you know, you find a good church,

you reflect and you stay in the gym, you exercise, you eat good.

Like, those are all all things that I think help combat those negative, you know,

mindsets.

Yeah.

So I think part of the reason for my success is when I see competition doing well, I love it.

You know, I don't get pissed, you know, I don't get upset.

I treat that as motivation.

And I think that little shift right there is how I was able to grow the podcast pretty fast.

Yeah.

Because you're, you're, it's you versus you.

It's not you versus them, right?

Like bring your enemies closer.

Always.

I think that's, there's a, there's a saying, it's work hard until your, your mentor becomes your enemy or something.

Does that make sense?

Yeah, yeah, mentor becomes enemy.

Yeah, like work hard until they know who you are and that, you know, you're on the same playing field.

But I think anybody in this industry that you're in, like, you should always

keep them close and

just be kind, bro.

Like, it's not all about you.

Yeah.

And I'm really collaborative.

That's one thing I noticed about certain other people.

They hold their connections really dear to heart, which is fine.

But I think I'm able to grow quick because I'm so giving.

So I know I believe in karma.

So I believe that energy will come back to me.

So I'll give off my connections.

I'll get them on other shows that are competition to mine.

To me, it doesn't matter for sure.

I mean, it always comes back to you, too, right?

Like you share a guest with me for our podcast with George Nanco with my show.

We then send you 10 back.

You know, it's like, it's all, it's all relationships, bro.

And you just got to be good to the person across the table.

Yeah, I'm big on that, man.

Reputation and relationships.

These days, you can't get away with scamming and anything anymore.

No.

Like your reputation is screwed from there on.

Word spreads.

I have a story about that real quick.

I was in Germany on a Lufthansa flight and the airline wasn't taken off.

We were sitting on the plane for hours and I meet the guy next to me who I won't say his name, but we start talking, chit-chatting.

Turns out he went to the same school as me and he knew someone that I knew and I brought something up that I knew about that person from college and I asked him about it.

And he said, it was something about being on a sports team.

And he was like, that guy wasn't on this sports team.

Like, he wasn't even around us at the time.

So what I learned was my friend back home was lying to me about what he was doing to impress me, which is fine.

You know, I forgive him.

But he was lying and just making these stories up to make himself feel better when I found out in Germany from a stranger that that wasn't true.

Whoa.

And so my point with this is the world really is small, right?

Like, so the moment you talk ill about somebody, I promise you, that person is going to go tell that person or that person is probably, you know, the person that's talking ill about the person is probably also talking ill about you.

Like, it's just such bullshit, bro.

Like, you got to be positive.

Even if I think something negative about a person,

if I do think something and I'm making a judgment, it's more a reflection on

me and how I feel about myself.

So if you ever have anything negative, with maybe the exception of a terrorist or like someone that's killing or harming people, obviously you might be like, okay, that guy's a bad person.

But yeah, man, just like, you know, be kind.

For the most part, it's not productive.

And talking ill is something I learned in public school.

You know, that was always the gossip of town, like, oh, who hooked up with who?

Like, that guy's ugly, stuff like that.

And I had to get out of that mindset for sure.

Yeah.

Now, when I catch myself talking ill, I actually feel bad after.

Like, I literally feel it in my body.

Like, wow, why did I just do that?

Yeah.

So I try my best not to do that anymore.

That's good.

It's good that you're recognizing, you know, kind of what you're...

uh doing wrong and that's all it is right you we all make mistakes you just have to catch it yeah i also feel feel like the truth always comes out like you said earlier with that example the the truth always just finds its way out.

Always.

Like you can't hide.

Can't hide.

Yeah.

That's why I can sleep at night because I'm not lying or anything, you know?

Mm-hmm.

Consciousness.

Yeah, dude.

When you look in the mirror and you're brushing your teeth, like, and you have done something wrong and you're brushing your teeth and you're like, you're fine about it, there's a problem.

Like, not you, but like people in general.

Like,

you know.

Consciousness will, I think the conscious will always come and bite you in the butt.

And so honesty is always the best, you know, move.

I think if you did something wrong, just admit it.

You know, say sorry, apologize.

And just, you'll be surprised at the compassion that the other person might have.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Apology is something I used to never do because of my ego.

And you said you dealt with some ego stuff earlier, right?

Yeah.

How did you get, uh, I guess find out, first of all, that you had it and how did you overcome it?

It was obvious.

You know, I went on a reality show and when I came back, I was, you know, buying all these cars and I was, you know, doing all this crazy stuff and treating the people around me kind of just in a poor fashion.

And I started realizing that it was getting really bad when I started losing people around me that I truly cared about.

And so I had to really check myself

and I started just diving into my faith.

And I was like, I'm on the wrong path, God, like steer me to where I need to be.

And that's all it was.

It was a pretty quick flip from the pride mindset to the Holy Spirit mindset.

But again, I'm not perfect, dude.

I still have a ton of pride, right?

Which I struggle with every day.

And I'm not a saint.

And

just got to try and be our best.

You know, that's all it is.

Well, a lot of entrepreneurs have high narcissism scores.

Really?

Yeah.

So there's a test called the Dark Triad Test.

And it measures your narcissism, Machiavellianism, and psychopath scores, 0 to 100.

And part of being an entrepreneur is pretty high narcissism scores from what I've seen.

I've had hundreds of my friends take this test.

It makes sense.

It makes sense because you kind of got to be out there.

You have to be confident.

You have to believe in yourself, right?

Like you're going out on your own, and you know this probably better than anyone.

It's a pretty lonely journey at least at first oh at first for sure and then you got to find your tribe exactly and until you find your tribe it's super lonely and only psychopaths would stay on that journey you know what i mean like you're isolating yourself and uh i was talking to george yesterday and he actually said that he was like he was like i'm surprised you're not like mildly socially autistic he didn't use those words but he he said it in a much better way but the reason he said that was because

you know i'm pretty pretty aggressive in business like it's it's what i love it's my baby.

I've been doing this for 15 years.

You know, when I was 13, it's kind of when I started selling stuff and I realized I caught the bug.

And I'm sure you have a similar story.

But yeah, dude, I struggle with social anxiety and being weird because I was just like, all I care about is achieving this goal that I have.

And with that, definitely comes narcissism because,

you know, when you, if you're that dedicated to something and you achieve it, of course your ego is going to be like, oh my God, I'm the best.

Like, I'm God, you know?

Yeah.

But I'm not.

I'm not God.

Yeah.

The first step's just being aware, I think.

And most people are not even at that step.

So you got to take these tests, talk to some people, get some honest feedback.

Yeah.

Get like a board of, almost like your own board of advisors, you know, like your top three to five people around you that you trust that aren't your yes men, like people that will tell you, like, yo, you're doing this incorrectly.

You're being a piece of shit, like whatever it is.

And just have those board of advisors and check in with them every couple of weeks, you know, and do the same thing for them.

You keep each other accountable.

Facts.

Yeah, I had bad anxiety too, man.

We got some similar journeys.

Yeah.

Crazy.

For sure.

I'm excited to do it to talk off camera and to learn more about your stuff.

Mine was bad, man.

I was having panic attacks, collapsing on the floor.

You were collapsing too?

Physically collapsing.

I thought I was having a heart attack.

It was just a panic attack.

But they're so powerful that it feels like a heart attack.

Yeah.

Because your heart rate is going

skyrocketing, man.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Collapsed on my college dorm room floor.

Was so ashamed to even tell anyone what was happening to me.

Wow.

Yeah.

I didn't know what it was.

How did you get out of that?

That was a multitude of things.

It wasn't like one set thing.

Good people around me.

Getting a dog helped me a lot.

Connecting with nature.

I even started praying and I wasn't religious at the time.

Yeah.

And finding purpose, which was, that took years, but

I tried therapy.

Didn't really work.

I know that works for some people.

It didn't work for me.

Maybe it was the guy.

I'm not sure.

But yeah, I was trying everything, man.

For sure, dude.

It's cool that you talk about this because I, not to this day, have panic attacks, but literally, like, probably six months ago, when I was going through the situation with my mom, like, I mean, dude, I was a couple of times where I called the ambulance because I thought I was having a heart attack.

My toes were tingling.

I was like, mom, I'm dying.

Like, whoa.

You know what I mean?

And they came and they're like, dude, you're fine.

You're 27.

You're super healthy.

Like, what are you doing?

And I realized I had a holy Gabbana on my podcast recently who was formerly known as Boont Gang.

And he had a crazy spiritual journey where he found Jesus in jail and it's super inspiring.

But the way that he phrased anxiety was it's almost like a spiritual rewiring.

And so when you're having panic attacks, it's because God is trying to literally change the dynamics of what's happening inside of you.

And he's trying to take you from X to Z, right?

And so that's that frame of mind kind of like was like, whoa, like that could be true, you know, like the disciples were trembling, the Bible says.

And so I think it's kind of the similar thing where if you do have panic attacks and anxiety and all these things, you just got to realize like perhaps it's God trying to set you up for something better.

And I think in those moments, bro, it's just breathing, just hydrate, you know, sit down.

Yeah.

It's not a heart attack.

That's fascinating.

I always thought of it as a physical problem, but yeah, I never considered the, you know, the spiritual aspect of a panic attack.

Yeah.

That's so fascinating.

Yeah.

I mean, you think about panic, right?

Like, we all are inside our bodies in a way.

And so I think in my mind, a panic attack is when what's happening inside is freaking out because of some reaction to the external or whatever so it's not i don't think a panic attack is a physical um ailment or you know experience i think it's a spiritual experience and so i think if you know you have just like we train our biceps bro we got to train our spirit like read the bible or whatever word you want to read journal meditate like you have to It's repetitions for that too.

It's not just hitting the biceps every day.

Absolutely.

Yeah, I feel for all these people with mental health problems right now.

It's skyrocketing, man.

It's actually insane.

It's crazy.

These numbers are almost unbelievable.

Yeah, it's sad, man.

It's in my mind.

I'm no expert, but I think it's probably the biggest epidemic that we have.

And even just like walking around town, bro, you see just sadness on people's face.

And it's like, you know, you wish you could help them

in certain ways.

And what I've realized is you kind of can.

You know, you smile, you give, you know, tithing, giving money to strangers.

Like, even just a smile bro being kind saying thank you like these things help people and i think people don't realize like when you're in an elevator for example and everyone's super awkward and quiet right like because no one wants to say the first thing dude say the first thing like be the person to start the conversation like compliment them on their shoes say something stupid say something weird you know and you'll just you'll see the person light up bro and when you make other people happy that's when i think you're the happiest yeah it feels great right yeah yeah being giving just helping out you know it's a fulfilling feeling for sure for sure um but yeah i can walk i'm more sensitive as a result of this podcast to people and um when i walk the streets man yeah i could feel the energy of people and it's it's dark yeah it's dark i look at them it just people are unhealthy like physically mentally spiritually in all aspects and you could feel it for sure i don't know what the fix is but i don't know man i think it's everyone's got to work on themselves and I think the answer is God, because that's been the answer for me.

But you got to work on it, bro.

Like, it's like, you know, my glutes right now are weak because I haven't been squatting.

It's clear I have to squat.

So if my spirit is weak, I got to spend time lifting my spirit up.

Right.

So.

Would you say you found your purpose in life?

Yeah, for sure, bro.

And it's such a relief, too, because I think I just found it like the last six months to a year.

And I think definitely, you know, I built a media business called Division Media and I was just chasing money all the time and trying to be, you know, have as much resources as I could.

And And then I started managing George Janko in 2022, and we started the George Jenko show.

And through that, I mean, being around George and even other people in my life, you know, outside of work, I've just seen their natural curiosity towards the gospel and, you know, shining the glory to God and doing that.

And so, you know, you are the average of the five people that you hang out with.

And so I started hanging around these people.

And now I find myself deep in the word.

And I'm trying to just be the best version of myself every day and just learn about why we're here.

And I think my purpose right now is pretty simple.

It's spreading the gospel through social media, right?

And the way that we're doing that is through podcasts and through shows.

And I'm just trying to see how big we can take it.

You know,

I want to be selling out stadiums where we're praying about Jesus and

doing that kind of thing.

I think it'll happen.

It will.

Tucker Carlson just did it.

Yeah.

Who was that guy that got canceled?

Russell Brand.

They were praying, I think, 10,000 10,000 people.

It was beautiful.

It's cool to see.

Yeah.

Russell Brand is sick, dude.

I just watched Get Him to the Greek the other day.

But me and George actually went to Wisconsin and we filmed with him for the George Janko show.

Nice.

We got to hang out with him.

He's such a like, just crazy uplifting guy.

I love that because he was canceled and he's got such an important message.

So it's cool to see that podcasting and independent media is on the rise and he could get back out there.

Yeah, for sure.

I was talking to a couple of pastors, Cliff and Stewart Connectley.

Shout out, Cliff and Stewart.

Amazing guys.

Stewart said on my podcast, he said, even Jeffrey Dahmer can be saved.

Whoa.

And to me, I was like, are you sure?

Are you sure, bro?

He's killed a lot of people.

It's pretty dark ways.

But he's like, no, like the Bible says, like, anybody can be forgiven as long as they, you know, live a Christ-life, like, Christ-like life.

And,

you know, I think Russell Brand, whatever he did or didn't do, I just think it's great that he's on this path.

And I'm sure, you know, God's forgiven him already.

Forgiveness is super important to me.

I've forgiven everyone that's wronged me.

Even people that have scammed me out of hundreds of thousands, I forgive them because just living with that resentment is so harmful.

Yeah.

And it's tough when people really do you wrong, but it's worse when you live with that man.

It is, right?

I saw it happen with my dad.

He never forgave his parents for the way they raised him and he ran away at 18, never forgave them.

His whole life had ate out him.

So I didn't want to live like that.

It's not the way to live.

Yeah, bro.

You just, when you, when you wake up in the morning and you just don't have any weight on your shoulders, like there's so much power in that.

And when you just carry baggage and baggage and baggage and keep letting it build, bro, like people will implode.

Like we're not designed to have that much baggage.

We're designed to be in nature and be happy.

Yeah, I see people, you know, with anger and that's just not healthy, man.

That stuff causes...

I believe it can cause physical disease in the body,

uncontrolled emotions.

Absolutely.

I would argue that that's, and again, I'm no doctor.

Like, so even just saying this is like, you probably shouldn't even listen to me, but like, I think probably a lot of cancers are caused from mental health issues and stress.

You know?

Definitely stress.

Stress almost caused health issues for me, just from stress alone.

Yeah.

It's a silent killer, they say.

For sure.

100%.

There's a book, great book, called...

Stop Worrying and Start Living, I think, by Dale Carnegie.

And it talks all about that.

Like, when you just let worry out of your life, how it can change your life for the better in just such a tremendous way.

And yeah, I think worry and stress are definitely the killers.

Like, you know, absolutely.

I was on your Instagram.

So you and George got to meet Trump, right?

George got to meet Trump.

Got it.

I have not met him yet.

I would love to.

Was he on George's show?

No, but if you know anybody, or Trump, if you want to come on, dude, you should definitely come on.

I mean, George is, I'm going to say this.

His entire audience is in the swing states.

He's from Arizona.

He's from an immigrant family, an Assyrian family,

four to 500 million views a month.

Makes sense.

I'll make an intro for you.

I might be able to make that happen.

I've been talking to their team.

I think it's a matter of him being busy.

Yeah.

He's doing rallies everywhere right now.

I'm actually trying to get Kamala on my show right now.

Dude, crazy.

Yeah.

I want to be the first show to have on both because they seem to be,

if one goes on one show, the other one won't go on type stuff.

Yeah.

I think that'd be crazy, dude.

I think it'd just be interesting to understand both perspectives for sure.

And I saw Kamala do Kamala?

Kamala.

i was getting canceled for this yeah i kept saying kamala it's camela is a camel okay yeah like i saw camela go and call her daddy which i thought was interesting um

yeah maybe hopefully you can get it make it to happen that'd be crazy and that's the power podcast man who would have thought five ten years ago that these presidential candidates would be going on podcasts like wild like not even a thought they were going on 60 minutes they were going on traditional news yeah This is the new media, bro.

Like, Sean Kelly, you are the new media, bro.

Like, and that's why I'm so focused on my podcast, DeVigas Den, and building the George Shanko show, because I realize the impact that can happen, bro.

Like, people, I'm reading the comments, even on my episodes, which get 20,000 views.

Some of them are, you know, going a little bit bigger, which is exciting.

But, you know, people are like, dude, this episode changed my life.

And I'm just in my mom's room, like, kicking it with her and my dog on her bed, like, just, you know, hanging out.

So

my point, yeah, my point of that is, like, I think anybody that has a voice should vocalize if they feel like they have something to say, because the power of tongue is very significant, bro.

Yeah, you know, all it takes is one clip to blow up, man.

Yeah.

I had one yesterday get 20 million.

20 million?

Yeah.

Damn.

And I'm jealous.

It'll happen to you, dude.

I've had a couple now, but that one was interesting because I was telling you before you filmed, I had a liberal on the podcast.

My audience is totally right-wing, but I think you still need to be having these conversations.

Yeah.

So that's the thing with my show is I'll have on anyone.

For sure.

And some people are closed off to talking with other side, but you won't grow that way.

Yeah.

You got to understand all perspectives, bro.

I just had a blind person on my podcast.

I had a four-year-old.

I'm going to have a homeless person.

Like, I'm excited to hear from people that people aren't talking to, you know?

Like the guy that works at Jersey Mike's behind the counter, what's going through his brain, right?

Or like the nurse that's staying up till three in the morning dealing with sick people.

Like, what are they thinking about?

Or police officers.

Like, I think we're living in a society where, you know, celebrity is big and people want to hear from those influencers and and celebs, and that's great, and they all have great perspectives, but let's not forget about everybody else.

Like,

so that's what I'm trying to do, bro.

That's cool.

I'm excited about it.

Yeah, no one's doing that.

That's going to be cool to see.

You said a four-year-old?

I had a four-year-old, yeah.

Shadow Iowa.

Wow, that's interesting.

Yeah, what was the goal with that one?

Just understanding her perspective on God and emotions.

Whoa, and she said joy was her favorite emotion.

I don't know if I could talk at that age.

Yeah,

it was hard to have a full conversation, but

yeah, even just that, dude, like kids are are so fascinating.

That's cool.

You had a blind person on.

I've never seen that on a podcast.

Yeah, my cousin.

It was coming out this week.

It was great, dude.

He's,

you know, I think there's a stigma with

blind people.

You know, I think a lot of us, at least I dealt with this, like, if I saw a blind person in public, I wouldn't approach them because I was like, what's the right way to approach them?

Do I touch them and make sure they know I'm there?

Like, do I help them cross the street?

Do I not help them cross the street?

Like, a lot of questions that I think have not been answered.

So we got deep into that and I learned a lot, man.

Nice.

Yeah.

That's cool.

I had someone with a stutter last week.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

I think that might be the first show where someone's done.

Like

a huge stutter.

It was really brave of him to come on.

Wow.

Yeah.

Was it,

is it going to be, I'm so sorry.

I feel like a piece of shit for making a joke, but like, is it going to be annoying for the listeners?

Because they're like.

It was tough for me.

So it probably might be tough for the listeners, but I think nevertheless, it was an important episode.

For sure.

Because he stepped up.

Yeah.

I think people with that condition, he was was staying on the show, he didn't talk for like 10 years.

Wow, he was so ashamed of it.

So, there's probably other people listening to that that will get inspired to speak up.

And now he's making eight figures a year doing a sales job with a stutter, crazy, nuts, right?

Yeah, put yourself in uncomfortable situations.

I'm a huge introvert, I have autism.

Like, I shouldn't even be podcasting, like, you know what I mean?

But this has been the most growth I've had in my life doing podcasts, learning from people.

I'm the same way, dude.

I'm an introvert too, like, for sure.

And I think it's Isaiah 36 in the Bible says that

God will lead, something about God will leading, lead the blind, but I think that applies to every disease or physical ailment.

Like if you have stutters, like I know a girl that she couldn't stop sneezing, like she was sneezing like 12,000 times a day.

Whoa.

A crazy medical condition.

But I think God makes these things happen for a reason.

It's either to teach somebody else a lesson or you know, he's giving you a certain gift, right?

Like this guy with the stuttering issue, perhaps he's going to inspire millions and millions of other people with the same condition.

And, you know, something powerful could happen with that.

Like, you never know.

That's crazy when you zoom out like that.

Yeah.

Because you, you put it on the individual, but you're thinking big picture.

I love the way you think.

Thank you.

Yeah, that's impressive.

Thank you, bro.

But yeah, he will inspire whether it's millions or maybe thousands of people for sure.

Yeah.

From that episode.

100%.

That's awesome.

Well, dude, what's next for you?

Where can people find you?

Keep up with you in the podcast and everything.

Yeah.

Division's Den is the podcast once a week.

The George Shanko show, obviously, is building super fast, and we're very excited and bullish on what George is up to.

But yeah, man, just continuing to build the show, both shows, and build Division Media, the media company.

And I'm spending a lot of time with family.

I'm in the gym.

I'm boxing.

I'm just.

Are you going to box someone?

Just for fun, you know, I actually called out, people were hitting me up like, yo, why don't you call out Logan Paul's manager?

Like, Battle of the Manager.

Oh, Jeff?

Yeah, Jeff Levin.

Shout out, Jeff.

I saw him at the half marathon yesterday that we ran.

So, if I was going to box anybody, I would want to box manager Jeff.

That'd be a good one because they got beef, right?

There's no beef.

Oh, they settled it?

It's all good.

Yeah, you know, they, yeah, everything happens for a reason.

Nice.

I love that.

Well, we'll link everything below.

Thanks for coming on, man.

Thank you, brother.

Yeah, appreciate it.

Watching, guys, check out the links below.

See you next time.

Bye.