From Church to CMO: Shocking $1M Loss Sparks Success | Nick Cavuoto DSH #979

When you think about like community and advancing people towards a common goal, you realize like business is very, very similar, painting a vision and inviting people into it.

I learned so much in those years.

And it was a big organization.

We had 10,000 people every weekend.

So I was managing

an eight-figure budget when I was 22.

Just got exposed early to like business and stuff.

Yeah.

All right, guys, Nick Cavuto here.

We are in Nashville at your spot.

Thanks for having me, man.

Absolutely, bro.

Thanks for coming on.

Yeah, dude.

I'm super pumped to be here.

Appreciate you.

Insightful episode.

Former pastor.

Yeah, man.

Yeah.

So when I was 19, I fell out of college for the second time.

And so I called my dad and said, dude, what do I need to do?

My dad's been my spiritual mentor for my whole life.

And he's like, listen, buddy, you got to learn how to serve.

Like, this is going to be a season for you to learn an important lesson that, like, you can go through the muck, you know, of life.

But it's so as long as you're in service to other people, man, everything's going to work out.

Right.

And so, yeah, man, that's where I started, you know, and it's been a cool journey.

I learned a lot about business, a a lot about marketing, being in ministry.

I think because if A, you have to sell Jesus, that's a complicated issue.

And second, and secondly, when you think about like community and advancing people towards a common goal, you realize like business is very, very similar of painting a vision and inviting people into it.

Whether you're leading a team or whether you're leading a tribe of people towards a common goal, I learned so much in those years.

And it was a big organization.

We've had 10,000 people every weekend.

So this is not like Grammas Church of 42 people.

That's a mega church.

Yeah, it's a mega church.

It was was a huge deal.

Five services every weekend.

I've hosted over a thousand live events.

Yeah.

Five every weekend.

Holy crap.

It was an operation, man.

But I was managing

an eight-figure budget when I was 22.

Nuts.

So just got exposed early to like business and stuff.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You worked your way up from volunteer to second in command, right?

Yeah, dude.

So when I started, I just showed up and I interned for two years.

I worked there full-time.

I interned, just slugged it out.

No pay?

No pay for two years and just showed up every day, you know?

And it's interesting because like when you just consistently show up and you do a great job you don't make excuses you're a champion of the vision um you get spotted man and um so they just saw me and i just grinded it out and they were like hey we need someone to step up next to this gentleman who's a public figure and um we need someone to like be number two and help him and so it's technically in like an executive assistant role and i started and uh it very quickly became that i was essentially running the whole operation for him insane so that he could be talent essentially and be able to show up and love on people and do what he does but um it was a really cherished position i had a lot of fun doing it.

That's impressive, man.

A lot of people wouldn't do two years of work when they'll pay.

Yeah.

You know, I didn't really have a lot of options.

And I think that was part of it.

And in addition, I was committed because I could see something that was unique about the positioning of where I was.

And I think when you have a sense of gratitude and you're established in something that's so unique and you feel like, man, there's a mission here.

There's something I can really buy into.

about the thing that I'm doing.

You just kind of trust the process.

And that's always been, I think, really my operating system has been rather intuitive of just like feeling things out, trusting the process, and then just showing up and executing.

I think we overcomplicate things as humans so much.

But when you just give 110%, man, and I tell people all the time, like you don't have to, you don't have to give 1,000% better than the next person.

If you give 10% better consistently, predictably, over time, you're going to become the most trusted person in the room.

And that's the trust equation.

The trust equation is three things.

And this is so valuable.

It's number one, are you credible?

Like, so do you have integrity based on the things that you say?

Number two, are you reliable?

So can I count on you to show up?

Even in the hard times, even in the good times, like are you consistent in the way that you show up?

And number three, it has to do with deep connection.

Most people have one of the first two, but they lack the last one.

And that's all over a self-orientation of the person who you're serving alongside of.

And so I realized very, very early the trust equation, be credible, be reliable, and have a deep connection.

a deep personal connection to the mission that you're on.

And that's a complete unfair advantage.

If people just get that right, it produces so much quantum leaps in business and life and relationships.

It's truly everything.

Connection is rare to find in people, actually.

It is, man.

Because usually, you know, people are just kind of looking out for the moment of what they need.

But when people can just take their time, go slow, respond to the invitations of life to see opportunity to make a contribution that's meaningful.

You can feel it.

It's different.

People are smarter now, man.

Like the frequency that people are on is just very different than it used to be.

Yeah, would you say humans are innately selfish and they have to learn how to be more giving?

Yeah.

I mean, I think that you're either in survival mode or you're in connection mode.

So people are born and depending upon the structure of potentially their early life, they're either neurologically starting to become wired for survival in the future or for connection in the future.

And it's funny, the most disconnected people are the most in survival mode.

And so the other ones, I think, who really seek deep connection with people, they're not really overly concerned about like the basics.

They're focused on like the bigger vision and the future opportunities and what that might look like.

So I've just noticed, I've noticed that.

No, I've noticed that some people get thrown off by how giving I am in certain situations.

Totally.

And they were just in survival mode their whole lives.

Like they're closed off, you know, so for you to give them something for nothing in return, it throws them off.

Oh, totally, man.

Totally.

Yeah.

It's giving without expectation of return has been a big thing in my life.

But I have started learning from Dave Meltzer, our friend, you know, my mentor, just learning about like not only being open to receiving, but in the the process of

giving, you realize like the more you give, the more you're given.

It's not about receiving.

It's the quantifiable multiplying factor of being a good human.

And then trusting in the process that as you give out of a place of true generosity, generosity begets generosity.

Like it's, they've even done studies recently.

And typically in a year that you give a con, like a charitable gift, you earn 1.8 times seven higher than you do a year without.

Wow.

Yeah.

That's actually crazy.

Yeah.

Isn't that nuts?

So there's a new study was just released this year.

I need to look into that.

That basically proves in karma, though.

Absolutely, man.

Absolutely.

You know,

it's a simple concept.

So very simple.

And people will not give even, even if you don't have money, there's other ways to give.

Absolutely, man.

If people want to change the world, encourage five people a day.

The world's starving for a sense of encouragement.

You know, when you just drop into somebody on DMs, on Instagram, and just say, hey, man, I just want you to know you're doing so much better than you think you are.

I'm cheering you on.

I believe in you.

I trust that there's a greater plan for your life and I can see that you're working at it every day.

And I just want you to know you're doing so amazing.

Absolutely.

And I'm proud to be your friend.

Dude, game changer.

But people just don't take the time to slow down enough to do that.

And that's not, I'm not passing judgment by saying that.

I'm just saying our world is not wired with intention at that level for most people.

But dude, in the hardest times in business for me, in COVID, I lost a million dollars in two days.

So it just completely wiped out two of my businesses.

Well, one of the businesses, I worked with elective practitioners.

So it was a marketing agency that I had a long, long time ago.

And then one of the other businesses was live events.

So if you remember, 15 days to flatten the curve.

So practitioners couldn't practice

unless it was like a mandatory procedure, life and death.

Elective practitioners got wiped out.

And then live events, you couldn't meet with people in person.

So you had to cancel an event you were planning on having?

Yeah, well, it was a mastermind that was predicated on a live event.

Wow.

So everything got wiped out overnight.

And so here I am going like, all right, God, this is your problem because I'm not going to try to solve this in my own strength.

And part of that process was I had a mentor and he said, dude, I don't know what to tell you.

This is unprecedented times.

This guy runs like $100 million company.

And he's like,

just go encourage five people a day.

And I did it, Sean.

And I did a half a million dollars in sales 35 days later.

Wow.

You know what's crazy?

Out of the 35 people who bought that I ended up doing this half a million dollars in sales with, none of them were the people who I encouraged for the 35 days.

Really?

Yeah.

Wow.

Isn't that crazy?

That is nuts.

And that is truly an example because the heart of service versus selling.

The heart of service is I'm here to make a meaningful contribution.

So it's not about you and what you can do for them.

It's about truly showing up and being present and available.

And people can feel the difference.

They can feel the difference if you're in need or if you're in service.

And that's what changed so much for me, man, because it was that lesson when I was 19.

My dad said, you just got to show up and learn how to serve.

It had a boomerang effect to one of the hardest times in my life as an entrepreneur going like, now what?

And I went back to the basics of just go serve.

Right.

And so that's what I did, man.

And it worked.

It's a crazy shift because a lot of people don't think in terms of service.

Yeah.

And even if they do, it's the giving and the getting thing, right?

It's not give and then the more you're given.

And a lot of people say like in different circles, like, well, God won't give you more than you can handle.

I say it's total bullshit.

He won't give you more than you can manage.

So the question is, can you manage the abundance that can be poured into your hands?

Like, cause if you can't, you're going to to lose it and i don't know about you but if you're like have a money manager and you're like all right i'm going to give you a million dollars to manage and they blow it and then you end up with zero do you think they're going to give you more no absolutely not so the reality is when you can manage what you have even if it's slow and predictable money is a currency it's a current it likes to move and it likes to have a transactional type of pattern in its relationship with people and other things.

So what's neat is like when you're starting to focus on like this whole idea of contribution and giving and maximizing potential and opportunity.

I've just noticed in my life, like that's, that's how it functions, man.

I want my current to be generosity.

I want it to be of service.

I want it to be of meaningful contribution.

I love when I have to make sure that like on our teams and the people that we serve with, knowing that like I'm championing making sure that their family is good, that their opportunities continue to get better every single day.

It used to be scary.

And now I've learned like it's actually,

what an honor.

It's a completely different perspective.

That's a great shift because a lot of CMOs do have that fear of not reaching certain KPIs and goals, right?

Yeah.

I mean, I built my whole career predicated on results.

I just don't know anything different.

So that's, it's like the good part of it.

I never believed in brand awareness.

I never believed in just, well, we got you 200 leads.

What the heck happened?

Because I know how everything attaches to the next thing.

So it's always been about results.

And since I ever have been in marketing and business, I always said the only KPI is ROI.

If we're not creating a return on investment for you in every company that I've had, I always say, if we can't two to five extra revenue in the next 90 days, we'll fire ourselves.

Wow.

Absolutely.

Because, dude, you and I know, right?

Like, if we're dragging an anchor under a speedboat, a business of this thing we're trying to develop, why would we want to be contractually locked into something that's not serving us?

Again, it's the reversal because it's not about me.

It's about the contribution that I make in someone else's life or in their business that affects them and their kids and their partners and their, you know, employees.

So if I'm not making a meaningful contribution, like I deserve to be gone.

Absolutely, 100%.

So you got very high standards for yourself.

Extremely.

And for my team and for the people I serve alongside of.

Because, you know, at the end of the day, I think that's integrity.

Yeah.

To do the right thing and to also like be focused on producing results.

That's what matters.

And now you're one of the top CMOs in the world.

Somehow.

I mean, dude, it's crazy.

I mean, I remember when I was, you know, doing something in Fortune 500.

I was managing over a billion dollars worth of products for a $4 billion Fortune 500 brand.

And I was half the age of anybody else in the whole entire marketing department.

There were 70 of us.

So it wasn't a huge team, but I just got a lot of permission, man.

In my life, I've seen it over and over.

I get permission early.

And I think I take just really seriously the things that come to me.

And that's part of that mindset that God won't give me more than I can handle.

So I have the confidence and the confidence to back up whatever it is that I'm facing.

And then in addition, I go like, all right, God, give me the best.

capabilities that I have that you've wired inside of me.

And with your help, I'm going to hold this thing and manage it the best way that I can.

So like failure is not an option.

It's just not even on the radar.

It's just, if I commit to doing it, I will find a way.

That's how I've always been wired.

When you were half the age, did you feel a lot of judgment coming your way in that culture?

Not really.

I mean, I broke a ton of records in the organization and that was fun.

I think honestly, in, you know, in the corporate speed, it's just very slow.

A lot of people, I say, like, they sink in their chairs every year.

It just gets like that divot in the seat gets lower and lower.

And so I felt excited to be able to create some breakthroughs.

And I think to show that there's a new way of doing things.

I'm an innovator at at heart.

That's what I love to do.

But yeah, there were certain moments of where I was like, y'all don't even understand what's happening here.

No one's asked me how I got the results.

It's just like, can you take on more and do more?

But I figured out very early, like, it was going to, I'm a fifth generation entrepreneur.

I mean, my dad was a street pharmacist, but

he was, you guys, you know, put the two things together.

But what's neat is like, I've always had that wiring that like, if I can exceed whatever the container is that I'm in, then I'll be like a fish and jump out.

Do you believe entrepreneurship is something you're born with?

Or you could learn it?

I think the willingness to win is something you're born with or you're not.

And to be an entrepreneur, you have to be willing to win and sacrifice more than you can ever imagine.

It's death by toothpick.

That's how it feels.

There's an intensity around entrepreneurship, like true entrepreneurship, of really burning the boats and being able to pull it all in and call it all in.

That is an innate thing that I think people who cross that chasm of just survival into connection and building something meaningful that they have.

But, you know, I've, I've mentored over 500 entrepreneurs.

I've interviewed thousands of entrepreneurs.

What I've noticed over and over, they have the greatest untold stories.

The things that they've had to give in, like to give up, the entrepreneurs who have had to go to jail for their kids just to have visitation rights.

I mean, I could go on and on about the stories of how they've overcome hardship through, you know, I had one client, 14 years old, had an abortion, and she's been carrying this thing her whole life.

What's so interesting about entrepreneurship is I truly believe that it is the best spiritual experience that we have on earth because you have to defeat the previous version of yourself so many times in order to ascend to make that contribution that you have in your heart, that you know that's possible for you to do.

You have to fall on your sword a thousand times.

Right.

While getting judged by everyone around you.

Absolutely.

And what's so cool in the way that I beat judgment, because that was an early thing in my life of like having a lot of growth and a lot of everywhere that I went, I was like the young buck who was rising up, you know, passing all the ranks.

And, you know, I'm kind of a classic optimist.

So like, I don't judge people that way.

So I don't perceive that I would be judged that way, but it definitely happened.

But what I learned is the less that I judge myself, the less that people judge me.

And so when I just stopped judging myself and like looking too introspectively at situations and just being grateful that like I even got positioned there, I started to notice that that sense of judgment from other people wore off really, really quick.

I almost became completely oblivious to it at that point.

Wow.

So, you were just really in touch with your identity at that point.

Yeah.

And I think it's just, I'm willing to do what it takes.

I'm willing to show up.

I'm willing to put in the work and get results.

And at the end of the day, that's the scoreboard to me.

It's not people's opinions.

People have opinions about so many things.

But what really matters is how I have an opinion about myself.

And those are the standards that I hold.

And I care about what my wife thinks.

I care about what my kids think.

I don't really care about what anybody else thinks, but I care about also keeping my word.

That's the highest thing is the integrity to allow myself to perform at 95%.

I don't say 100% because nobody's perfect.

Part of not judging myself is being okay with making human error.

But human error is about 5%.

So I try to make sure that I stick around 95%.

Yeah, if someone was perfect, that wouldn't make sense to me.

Yeah.

Even AI isn't perfect, and that's robot.

AI, man.

That's AI.

Yeah, dude.

How'd you meet Odley?

Yeah, so Nick Lauer, who's a buddy of mine, I've invested in his business, short-form empire.

You know, it's interesting.

I spoke at an event.

My buddy Sean Kaplan had an event.

And I went and spoke about my story of how my kids survived a school shooting.

And I talked about, you know, internal belief systems and how that impacted our family.

And we'll talk more about that.

But I spoke at an event.

Nick came up to me after and he said, hey, man, I know it's kind of out of the box, but one of the things you mentioned was during COVID in that time, 21, like just thereafter, I started a short-form content agency.

We got to 125 clients in four months.

Absolutely exploded.

It was amazing.

And he was like, I'm on the come up.

He's 18 years old at that time.

And he's like, I'm just trying to figure it out while you mentor me.

It takes so much courage to like walk up to somebody.

He was like, you know what made it easy?

We had the same name.

So I had an easy point of connection with you to have the conversation.

And when he came to me, again, generosity begets generosity.

So I just flow with it.

Right.

And I'm like, dude, I would love to.

Absolutely.

Whatever you need, man.

I'm here for you.

And so we met and he said, I would love your help.

And I said, great.

And in the first 30 days, we doubled his business.

Wow.

And then just quantum leap after quantum leap.

It just kept growing and growing and growing we started adjusting his offer a little bit and getting him with more high performers and less out of just editing in short form and more into like in-person shooting

and uh yeah so we became business partners back in uh in march of 24.

and um yeah now we're absolutely crushing dominating and so what was interesting is in the growth pattern for nick i posted one of the videos of me speaking

Adley saw it on Instagram and said, I got to talk to this dude who's been coaching you and mentoring you.

And so they brought me in.

And that's how I met Adley and just said, hey, like, I'm just, my hands are open.

This is my position whenever I walk anywhere, like into opportunities, into business, into friendships.

I have open hands.

Better is an open hand than a closed fist.

A closed fist is a fighting position.

And I'm not trying to fight anybody.

So what is this?

Well, it's an energy conduit.

Because that's how you can give and receive.

That's how you can give and be given more is by opening your hands and holding a posture of what?

Service.

How can I support?

How can I help?

And that's just what always has worked for me.

So I shadowed for four hours, you know, on like a random Wednesday.

And

at least I really think we can use your help.

And so then I talked with her and her husband Blake, and here we are, dude.

The rest is history.

The rest is history.

I love that, man.

I really love that openness.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's everything, man.

That opening your hands.

It really opens up everything in your life that you could need or want.

It's a beautiful thing.

So you're very focused on relationships.

Like that's important to you.

Relationships are rocket ships, brother.

Yeah, they will take you places that you never dreamed you could get um

and i think part of that is truly being a good person and um having integrity being that that trust equation credible reliable deep connection and it's got to be authentic it's got to be true yeah you never know where people will end up man that's true a lot of people try to form relationships purely based off money and i think that's a mistake because you could catch someone early on their journey and they can help you five ten years down the road too Oh, absolutely, man.

Absolutely.

There's been a lot of people who I've helped and coached along the years and and then ended up pulling them into opportunities and gigs.

And at the same time, you know, like when you have a sterling reputation, when you write a book and nine years, you know, you go nine years later and you ask that one person who you met and now they become a mega entrepreneur or a public figure.

And they're like, I would love to, man, because your reputation precedes you.

You showed up.

You did what you said you were going to do.

You operate in high integrity and truly a heart of service.

Those are the types of people that people want to help.

Yeah.

And yeah, I've seen that happen in my life over and over again.

I haven't done them all perfect, Sean.

I haven't.

No one has.

I've learned a lot of hard lessons

about just different seasons of life and how I chose to show up at those times of when I was either in pain or whatever.

And that's why I ended up taking a sabbatical.

Yeah, this was back in 22 because I was like, I got to do some internal stuff.

Right.

I got to work at that.

And you said 100 therapy sessions in

about a year, which is every three days, basically, right?

Yeah, dude.

It was super intense.

Yeah.

I mean, 52 days in the year, and I did it twice a week.

I met with an art therapist which was really interesting studied carl young for 52 years she was in her 70s absolute jedi master like incredible sharon barnes is her name uh she's in colorado and then uh i met with a phd who gave me a lot of tools and resources one of the most interesting things that sharon did is she had me draw with my non-dominant hand to unlock my subconscious And I would draw pictures, but it's funny when you're drawing with your non-dominant hand, you literally looks like you're like a three-year-old drawing.

But that's what it's unlocking in your mind is that stage.

So she's like, Draw something.

I'm like, What the hell do you want me to draw?

She's like, Well, anything.

I'm like, What do you mean, anything?

She's like, Just draw.

And so I sat there for like a minute.

I'm like, Just start drawing.

And then I realized I draw these four trees.

And then I drew this road that went in the middle.

And then this little guy, and then this big black cloud of chaos chasing it.

And then I showed her.

I'm like, I don't know what this means.

And she observed it and she said

what do the four trees represent

and I was just searching for four in my life what do I have four of I have four kids

and I'm like oh this is super interesting so I started to realize what it was she's like well what's the road I'm like it's the path of life

she's like who's the little guy I'm like that's me and what's the black cloud and I'm just like Chaos.

So what's interesting is I was able to formulate that my kids were here.

I mean, it gives me chills in my arms, dude.

My kids are here.

There's this road in this path of life.

And there's this tornado running through the middle of it, chasing me that's impacting them.

Now it hasn't hit them.

It's just impacting them.

It's crossing through them.

And so then we would have a conversation about that.

Wow.

Isn't that powerful?

That is deep.

Yeah, dude.

She is a Jedi.

Absolutely Jedi.

Life-changing, man.

What a powerful exercise.

Yep.

Yep.

I actually write in my gratitude journal with my left hand just to practice.

There you go.

I want to be ambidextroost.

And I brush my teeth with my left.

Yeah, I do.

It unlocks parts of your brain, right?

Absolutely does.

Yeah, it creates neural pathways that cross over that normally wouldn't.

And so it allows you to start thinking differently.

And yeah, and I think it's good to do hard things.

A lot of people shy away from things because, you know, we're wired for survival primarily.

And so we don't want to do hard things that are uncomfortable.

But when you force yourself to do it, especially early.

you start training your brain that like yeah we're going to experience struggle right um

and suffering's guaranteed struggle's guaranteed and so it's the golden elixir of life i'm like bring it i've learned how to be in that position bring it yeah embrace it i love it yeah i try not to uh run away from my fears anymore i think it's important to address them as as you identify them yeah absolutely man public speaking was a big one for me was it really yeah now i'm a podcaster dude good for you man yeah that was it that's a big one for a lot of people i think yeah were you struggling with that too dude when uh so i i grew up in church like from the moment i was born you know my dad was holy ghost pentecostal assemblies of god shout them down.

You know,

that's the environment that I grew up in.

So I grew up around professional communicators, inspirational people for my whole career, which when I ended up getting into marketing and then personal branding and then working with, you know, millionaires, billionaires, celebrities, athletes, epic and, you know, elite entrepreneurs, it was very natural for me because that's who I spent my whole life around.

So I never had a fear of speaking, but my father did.

My dad was a drug dealer who found Jesus.

As simple as it is, that was his story.

He lived a life of a lot of contrast.

He just one day just walked away from it and it was done.

But what's fascinating is my dad has an eighth grade education because he dropped out of school, middle school to sell drugs at 13.

So he always had this interpretation when he would go to speak because I watched him my whole life when he'd go to communicate.

She was a minister in Stephen Church.

And I would watch him just be petrified.

And dude, he'd create those three ring binders and just like everything's highlighted and it's got to be perfect.

And there was always a moment every time that he was communicating publicly to thousands of people, he just would take the thing and just shut it.

And as soon as he did that, dude, magic.

It was like everything that poured out of him was so powerful.

But sticking to the script, man, it suffocated him.

And I realized in my life, I'm like, I want to help that version of my father.

Because it's, Dr.

Jordan Pearson talks about it all the time, rescuing your father from the belly of the whale.

There's a part of us as men, certainly,

that wants to redeem the illness and or the,

you know, the

afflictions that our father brought on himself or others or us.

And so it's a natural thing that we want to do.

So I wanted to redeem that part.

And so when I got a chance to speak, when I was in ministry, this, here's a crazy thing about this.

I never spoke one time.

Really?

I was always behind the scenes running everything.

Wow.

And that's because, yes, agent, I was posturing to be able to take things over from an infrastructure of operations, but I also knew I was a great communicator.

But it wasn't until Mike Kim told me, he said, you're a great teacher.

I said, a teacher?

Like, I was a 1.2 GPA college student who fouled out twice, an average C student who couldn't pass ninth grade algebra.

Like a teacher.

And he was the first one who spoke life into me in that way and gave me an opportunity to speak.

And when I did, I just saw the mirror of my father going like, I didn't need a script.

I didn't need a thing.

I just spoke genuinely from the heart.

And that proved itself to be amazing.

And now, I mean, I've spoken on hundreds of stages, hundreds of podcasts, did a TED talk.

You know, I have no fear of getting up in front of people and having a conversation.

But I have found a way to do that that's very unique when it's with a group of people because I don't go pontificate.

I saw those people growing up.

You know, think of a standard televangelist.

That's what I saw.

So it's the redeemed version of that, which I sit up there and I'll look at a group of people.

And I'll just like wait 10 seconds.

And they're like, is this guy having a stroke?

Like, what the hell's going on?

And I just go like, so how's everybody doing?

And I'm pulsing energetically the room.

I can feel the anxiety, the uncertainty.

I can feel that someone is struggling with a severe illness.

I can tell that someone's probably dealing with a very intense relationship, you know, exchange.

I can tell that someone in that room has been sexually abused.

Damn it.

I can feel it.

I can know it.

And dude, I call it out sometimes.

I'm dead serious.

But that's the gifting that I grew up with is that ability to intuitively pulse and sense the room.

So, all I'm doing is I'm pulsing, getting a confirmation on these things, and then I start calling certain things out.

Wow.

Oh, yeah, dude.

Imagine calling someone out for that, and they've never told anyone.

It's happened.

Here's the thing: I don't prompt it in a way of where I go, I know someone in this room has this.

I will say something, though, of like, I know some of you are probably going through some of the deepest, darkest moments of your life right now.

And the first thing that I want to tell you is that you're not alone.

The most horrific thing is literally scowling the walls of hell and going through the deepest, most most painful, traumatic, horrible season of your life and not feeling like anyone even cares or knows.

And when someone can be in that room and they can pulse sense that and then call it out, you're like, maybe God's real.

Maybe there's something, maybe the universe has got my back.

Maybe there's something out there, a force out there that loves me more than my mom does.

That is actually caring and seeking to like be on my side.

When you can feel like a force that's way bigger than humanity and you can even for just one moment,

percent be like maybe this thing's got my back because no one knows that but this dude somehow does it's not about me i'm the messenger it's about allowing them to illuminate that there's something greater out there that there's a deep basis of faith let's just call it be it a currency of faith that they can go like maybe i do believe that there's something that's greater that has my back that's deep that can change everything for somebody so and then the conversations that come after are always so powerful but you know

I'm a hope dealer and a dope healer.

I just have found the way of, you know, in business, a lot of what I do, it's pseudo.

It's like I solve operational problems for, you know, some of the most prominent figures in entrepreneurship and business and entertainment.

However, how I do that is very unique.

Very.

Because it comes down to the individual and their personal individual success and guiding them in the right direction and being truly a confidant.

You get three different different types of people in your business.

You got confidants and those are the people who are for you, period.

They don't care what you do.

They don't care if you're like bankrupt or a billionaire.

They're for you.

And I've always had a very cherished position with a lot of people for an extended amount of time of where I'm behind the scenes and you would never know that I was even there.

Unless you saw me like in a picture behind them, you would never know that that person's success was in duality of what we created together in co-creation.

And you don't care to take credit?

Not at all, because it's, I think it's collective.

It's like, why should I take credit?

There's so many different people who have contributed.

Their ancestors, their great, great, great grandparents and the sacrifices that they made are just as important as the ones that I did.

What I figured out is that I don't want to do things alone.

We're in a season of Avengers.

It's actually, my buddy said this really well.

He's like, okay, you're going to rock solo?

Good luck because you're going against teams of 5, 10, 15, 100 people.

So I'm like, if you want to defeat Thanos, meaning if your vision is big enough, then you want to collaborate and bring people along on that journey.

Yeah, because

Trump right now.

Hell yeah, dude.

Dude, it's a perfect example, but that's where the world is trending.

It's trending towards we have to find what's common.

We have to find the areas of life of where we have agreeance on the right things, of where we believe the right things, so that we can take all that force of energy and push it in the right direction.

But it's just so hard to do it alone.

And it's not that fun.

It's not that fun to lose alone.

It's not that fun to win alone.

Like, I want to win alongside the people who I believe in.

It's not fun at all.

I've taken vacation solo, thinking it's been amazing, got the nicest hotel, and I'm bored out of my mind.

Yeah, dude.

You want to run with people who care and where you're up to something that's meaningful.

And that's why I love those Avengers movies because you have all these unique characters with all their unique backgrounds, but they're all on one core mission that they know that they need each other to win.

And I think humanity, when they bind together and they go towards something, they have a rally cry and they identify a common enemy.

I think that's where humanity shines brightest.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Now, you had an interesting relationship with your father growing up.

Do you feel like making him happy was a big driver for you growing up in your teenage years and 20s, making him proud of you?

Yeah, I think so.

I mean, I was really afraid of my father.

And

that kept me out of a lot of trouble.

There were many times where we'd be with our friends and doing stuff.

And I'd be like, I'm out of here.

Cause if my dad finds out I'm here, like I'm dead.

So he parented you fear-based parenting?

I think so.

I think he did the best that he knew how.

You know,

And my dad has owned struggles when he was younger and,

you know, lack of safety and all these other things.

And so I think a lot of that contributed into it.

You know, he's part of a first-generation family in the U.S.

And so, you know, like they didn't have conscious parenting back then.

So,

but at the end of the day, I think a certain level of the fear of God in,

you know, in my life, at least I can speak for my story as a kid, was actually really healthy.

Like my dad never physically did anything, you know, but there was just like this, don't screw up.

Never academically.

It all had to do with character.

So I think I can look back on it now and be really grateful for it.

But yeah, you know,

you want a healthy balance, even if it's a 51, 49, of where I trust the safety of that parental figure more than the fear of the emotional explosions and the tyrannical behavior.

And I think it was probably like an 80, 20, which has really like impacted, you know, things.

But I cherish the lessons, but there's a level of safety there that's just not there.

And that's okay.

And you had to go back and address that trauma, right?

Eventually you can't run away forever.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I've had hard tarts with my dad and talked to him about it.

He's very apologetic.

You know, my dad's very different.

You know, as your parents get older, they doesn't go for everybody.

They soften up a bit, see things a little bit differently.

And that was a massive fight for me, too, because my mom's Asian and a lot of Asian people use academics to further their career.

But for me, that wasn't what I aligned with.

So that was a fight for years, you know, in high school and college.

But now she's the biggest supporter of the podcast.

Wow.

But it took some time to get there.

Yeah.

What flipped for her?

She saw how passionate I was about it, I think.

And she realized that academics is not the only way to get success these days.

I think it's changed a lot since our parents' generation where college actually got you jobs and, you know, it was valuable and much cheaper.

Don't, yeah, absolutely.

It's like 40K a year now.

Oh, it's no joke, dude.

It's crazy.

And for what?

You know?

I'd rather hire Dave Meltzer or Adby to coach me.

Yeah, totally, right?

Absolutely.

And what about your dad?

Supported me.

Yeah, he was an entrepreneur.

He had a nine-to-five, but he sold books on the side and did very well.

So I witnessed that growing up, and he was a big inspiration.

Wow.

That's incredible.

So I got to experience both, which I think is important too.

And I'm multicultural.

So I got to experience the Asian side and my dad's Irish.

So I got the alcoholic side.

So I got to see where I wanted to fit in that.

Totally, man.

Wow.

It's important to get different perspectives, I think.

A lot of people grow up in a town and they're still there.

Oh, dude, absolutely.

And, you know, and my best friend's Korean.

So, like, what's interesting is like he shared with me a lot about, you know, and I'm Italian, you know, on both sides.

And my, my dad's half British.

So my grandmother, like, survived World War II, bombs going off.

Like, oh, it's a whole deal, raised herself.

Her parents died when she was like.

under 12 years old.

Yeah.

There's so much resilience there.

I mean, that's, I think, what's gotten me through so much of my life is like, there is a part that wants to continue to make her proud.

Near-death experience when I was five years old, I almost drowned in a pool.

Wow, you remember that?

Yeah.

Oh, dude, that's brutal.

That's like, it's like hardwired in my DNA at this point.

Oh, yeah.

What happened?

So I was in a pool at a state park.

And my parents, you know, and I got four kids, so I get this.

They're just talking to a couple of friends that they saw.

And there was actually a girl who's probably 17, 18 years old.

I was five, and she had special needs and didn't really realize what was happening and went to, you know, just play.

And I essentially got waterboarded when I was five for about three minutes.

Yeah.

So it jumped on me and just over and over and over and over in the water.

Yeah, super intense, man.

But that survival mechanism, I think, especially at that age, I truly believe that it gets coded in your DNA.

Because from that point forward, I've had a no quit,

survive at any cost,

high performance type of attitude.

And so it's been a wonderful thing.

But what's so interesting, man, is I was petrified of water.

And when i was 12 years old i remember i was at a campsite with my grandma because we would go camping with her every summer and she's like you want to go down the pool and i'm like grandma you know the story like no and she's like well why don't we just you know she it's like exposure therapy just i'm gonna very slowly get you to look at the thing you don't want to see right and we got down there and she would knit hats and scarves for kids who are underprivileged and she would do it literally all year round and then at christmas time she'd give it to all these orphanages and stuff i mean she's just a saint amazing lady but um we got down to the pool and she sat down and she's just knitting.

And I'm like, what am I going to do?

Just like stand here all day.

So she's like, so you're going to get in, you know, whatever.

And I'm like, I don't know.

I don't know.

And like, you can just like experience that moment by moment, you know, and then I finally like stand on the edge of the pool and it's like, I'm faced with a decision of like, am I going to do this or not?

And she didn't pressure me.

She just was with me.

And this is such an interesting concept of like, holding space for people who are going through hard things.

You don't, people have a lot of courage.

Sometimes they just need to know like, are you going to be there if I die?

Like, if I'm about to die, will you please help me?

And I knew she would.

And so finally, it's just like, screw it.

What's the worst that could happen?

She's here.

And I just jumped in.

Wow.

And at 12 years old, I

overcame the greatest fear of my life.

And so, what does that produce in someone when they face other challenges?

And literally that summer when I was 12, I started going, going door to door and selling candles.

Wow.

And just started slaying like this whole new version of me of like unlimited possibility, of optimism to confront whatever realities were in my life to just overcome fear became fun.

And I think that was a staple to my success.

I don't know if I'd be the same person today without that experience.

So I've learned how to be immensely grateful for that.

And to also like forgive my parents, you know, I had one of my therapists who I talked to, she said, well, you cherry-picked the story because you don't usually tell that your dad jumped in and saved you.

Oh, he did?

He did.

Wow.

Yep.

And so that's always been a thing for me of like, whenever I tell the story, I always, but then at the end of like, my dad was the one who, yes, I had a lot of struggle with, but he's also the one that like in the moment that mattered most, he was the one who shut up.

So there's that, that's why this is such an interesting parallel in relationship.

But I believe that like, you know,

fathers are the greatest representation of what redemption can look like in someone's life.

And it doesn't have to be a me versus him thing.

You know, it can be a, let's band together and co-create redemption on both of our stories together.

And so.

I love that.

I have a very similar story because my father never showed me physical love.

He never gave me a hug.

I think the only time he did was when I was moving out of Jersey to L.A.

Wow.

And I was 20, 22.

Wow.

That was the only time he's ever hugged me.

Never told me he loved me.

And then we found out at six years old, he got diagnosed with Asperger's.

Wow.

So that really messed me up, dude, because the whole time he did love me, he just didn't know how to show it.

Wow.

You know what I mean?

So that like really got me messed up.

How did what did you learn from that like now?

Basically that.

Like he just loved me so much he just didn't know how to express it man and he had so many demons he fought he was a drug addict and alcoholic and I think he just got in his own head yeah you know it's hard to show compassion and love to others when you feel so much shame

shame is a prison yeah and it's a prison that will not allow you to release the thing that you want to the most and then additionally having some neurodivergent things going on it's like that's just it's a it's a it's a part of the the puzzle that doesn't allow you to experience what you needed to but what's so neat is there's always redemption man like whenever you look now back at the story it's like geez i just wish i would have known sooner yeah like i wouldn't have maybe formulated the stories in my head that i did but that will serve its intentional purpose in your life i believe that it's been a big lesson because i i picked it up from him and even with my fiancé i wouldn't tell her i love you and i wouldn't hug her or kiss her or show her affection but i've learned how to do that now that's amazing dude yeah it's valuable dude powerful you also went through another crazy traumatic incident last year with the school shooting yeah with your kids.

So they were at the school when it happened?

They were, man.

I showed up on a Monday morning, dropped my kids off at school and said, hey, go be leaders today.

That's what I always tell them every day that I drop them off.

And, you know, what's interesting is my office is directly across the street from the school.

So I'm literally like, you pull out and then you make it left and I pull right into my office building.

You know, that's where I used to be.

And so I dropped them off.

You know, and then I was on a Zoom call, this dude from Canada.

And then my wife called.

And we have this rule, like, you call twice, there's something going on.

So I got to pick up.

That's a good rule.

It's a very good rule.

Yeah, it's huge because then you always know, like, it's a, you need to pick up.

So I pick up the phone and I'm just like, hey, babe, what's up?

And I told the guy, hey, one second.

I have this rule with my wife.

She calls twice.

So I mute him, pick it up.

And she's like, babe, there's a shooting at the school.

There's a shooter at the kids' school right now.

And I'm like, wait, wait, hold on.

Like, I'm thinking, I can't even, like, I'm not even hearing this correctly.

And I'm like, wait, what?

And she's like, there's a shooter at Covenant.

And dude, I have never felt whatever all those body chemicals were in that moment that hit.

It's like an insane surge of adrenaline and everything else.

I just slammed down my computer.

I still had it on the phone.

And I ripped open my office door and I began running down the hallway.

Actually, my shoe fell off.

I was running so hard and fast that my shoe flipped off my foot.

And I'm just like pushing people out of the way, like in the middle of the office.

Run back, grab my shoe.

And I go to the elevator and I'm just like pounding the elevator buttons, like trying to get down there as as quick as possible.

And I pick up the phone again and I'm like, okay.

And on that sprint, though, I had like this 10 seconds of adrenaline hit.

And I was reminded this Taoist monk who spent 45 years as a psychologist, when I was doing therapy, he gave me the greatest lesson in life.

And he said, Nick, you know what?

You're going to have life experiences, things that are going to happen.

And if you allow your emotions to immediately follow your life experiences, your belief systems are going to be very skewed.

You're going to see the world in a way that is untrue.

And so he said, the way that you create the grand filter to your life to protect the greatest treasure, which is your emotional consciousness, he said, the way that you do that is life events will happen, but you need to insert your belief systems,

then your emotions.

And that's how you truly guard your heart.

So I was reminded of that, dude.

You know, it's just like the military, like in the greatest moment of stress, you want to rely on your training and not your, you know, nature, really.

and stress responses.

And so sprint, 10 seconds, this whole thing's going on.

Getting the other way, pounding it, pounding, pounding.

And I pick up the phone again, and I'm going to talk to my wife.

And it was like, What is your belief?

Like, I just felt it.

Like, what is your belief about this?

And I relied on my training because 100 therapy sessions.

I mean, what's so crazy, dude, is I stopped doing that there, like all the therapy and the intensity around that sabbatical two weeks before this happened.

So I truly believe that God prepared me for the whole moment.

And so, um,

she started crying, of course, and she said, I hope my babies are okay.

and i said

our kids are fine

and dude you know what my honest belief was in that moment they're either dead and they're with god or they're alive

and they're safe wow it's one or the other you know the contrast of life in those moments gets pretty

crazy yeah but i knew that either way that they were okay and um Pounded that button, gotten that thing.

She's bawling her eyes out.

I'm talking through her with this.

And just, they're going to be okay.

They're going to be okay.

They're going to be okay.

Get down fourth floor to the first floor.

Bolt out the front doors.

There's all these people.

There's literally police.

There's helicopters.

It's insanity.

It's like where the office is.

It's

the police tapes already down there.

This is like 20 minutes after it happened.

Wow.

And I mean, the police were there and took care of it in 13 minutes.

This is about seven minutes after like everything was done.

But you got to remember, like in that timeline, it's like every second feels like an hour.

So I get down.

I'm running.

I'm like sprinting as fast as I can down to where the reunification point is.

And I see my son with his class walking down hand in hand.

And they had crossed a main road.

They were on the playground.

And the shooter walked past the playground with 70 kids on it.

What?

She could have just turned and opened fire on all of them and didn't.

And still to this day, we have no idea why.

It doesn't make any sense.

Whoa.

So we truly believe that God preserved our kids that day and protected them.

So did she shoot anyone?

She did.

She killed six people.

oh she went inside she went inside so it was just targeted attack it wasn't like very yeah very very it was targeted it was intentional um

you know three three teachers and or staff and three kids wow third grade so it must have been former teachers she had a grudge with or something she didn't you know we've got a lot of you know additional information that they don't share like on the mainstream news and stuff um just obviously because we're parents and there's it's different level of complexity and involvement um

but no it's just uh the best way that the detectives and the FBI explain this after like hours and hours of answering questions and helping us and answering what they can.

It's as simple as this, and I know it's hard to hear, but pure evil showed up that day.

There's no other way to describe it.

This person

had unique challenges, and

in the process of that,

it seems kind of like there was a former version of who she was that she wanted to

take off this planet.

And so someone who's very suicidal and

dealing with these things and had nothing to do with those kids.

It had everything to do with like an internal rage about self

and just was taken out on others.

So it's a sad thing.

You know, there's a certain level of empathy.

My wife's father was also murdered when she was three.

And this is the second time we've had to deal with this.

Most people don't have to deal with it once.

You've got to deal with it twice.

But I'm really grateful to say that my kids are doing amazing.

They're so resilient, dude.

Like kids are so resilient.

They're better kids today, I think, because of what happened.

And we've trained them and we've created space and we've done a lot of therapy and all the things that need to be done.

Yeah.

But I remember like when this happened and the first time I had a conversation, I'm like, our kids will march back up that hill.

The part of the Civil War was fought on that hill.

Wow.

And I'm like, oh, there's a lot of history behind it.

And I'm like, our kids are going to march back up that hill

because these are the things that they overcome that create them into champions of who they're going to be tomorrow.

We're not going to cower in fear.

We're not going to step back.

We're not going to play defense.

We're going to handle what needs to be handled.

We're going to heal.

And then we're going to go on the offensive.

So if my kids beat death at five and seven, what else are they going to do?

Probably change the world.

Absolutely.

A lot of parents probably pulled their kids out of that school, right?

A lot less than you'd think.

Oh, yeah.

Because now it's the safest school that you're going to find in the whole city.

Um, it's like Fort Knox.

I mean, in a good way.

It's not, you know, it's not like you walk in and you're like, am I walking into like, you know, like a prison, you know, like where it's like, it's these layers and layers.

It's extremely secure.

Um, and there's very high levels of security and personnel who are there and all those things.

So, you know, we feel great about it because of that.

And yeah, there's a lot of families who are impacted in different ways.

You know, I'm one of

people who were very lucky to say, like, my kids didn't see anything.

My daughter was 10 feet away from the shooter.

Wow.

Thankfully,

walked past her.

Yeah, I mean,

she was safe.

She was basically the distance between a drywall.

And,

you know,

you just think about that and go, like, this person's coming up a hallway.

And my daughter is literally on the opposite side of where she's firing.

That's nuts.

So, you know, some auditory things like have been really interesting for.

for her as she's processed those.

Like no balloons, you know, different types of things that like you just got to deal with now and be mindful of.

But at the same time, our reminder is always like there were heroes that day, there are people who loved you and people who fought to make sure that everyone was safe.

But Vanderbilt was preparing for 60 casualties or at least injuries.

Wow.

And the teachers were the ones who saved those kids' lives.

Really?

They were fully trained.

They knew what to do in that type of scenario.

Extremely trained.

Extremely.

Were they armed?

The teachers?

I don't know if, I don't know how I, I I don't think I can answer that question.

I want to put that legal.

Yeah, yeah, no, no.

The short answer is, yes,

there are staff members who, and obviously now there's a completely different level of security.

The person who primarily is armed was not there that day on vacation.

Oh, they weren't there?

They were not there that day on vacation.

But, you know, armed with a pistol and someone's got a rifle, you know.

That would have been a battle that probably wouldn't have gone the direction that we wanted to.

And this guy is very fearless, so he would have jumped right in.

But that's just an unfair fight.

And so, you know, all things are what they are.

But,

you know, a lot of empathy, a lot of growing, a lot of learning, a lot of understanding.

But

it's sad.

That's a fear that parents have these days, you know, sending their kids off and there might be a shooting out of school with how common they are now.

I think it's a great way for people to awaken of how evil the world is.

I think like we sometimes live in this fantasy land, like let's care about, you know, certain issues that don't really matter.

I'm like, well, our kids' safety really matters.

And there's so many preventative measures that don't go into like the hyper-politics of like, you know, gun usage and, you know, banning firearms and all this stuff.

There's very practical things, very practical things that every school district that they can solve

that cost tens of thousands of dollars, not millions or hundreds of thousands of dollars, that can be done.

And even just training, you know, like the dude Brinks, B-R-I-N-X, he's part of a safety security team.

He's a metro here in Nashville.

And he was the guy who trained the school.

And he trained schools.

He got over 750 inquiries within the first week after.

So what's good is like these situations, as horrific as they are, what the trend is showing is that people are becoming more and more mindful of how important it is to have this solved.

And dude, there's just another shooting at a kids' school today.

What?

Yes, in Tennessee.

In Georgia.

Oh, my God.

So I'm just, you know, my heart's breaking for those people because I know exactly what they're going through right now.

So I'm going to find a way to reach out to whoever I need to and to try to be a voice of encouragement.

The one thing, Sean, I think that was really interesting, and hopefully people who are going through hard things or know somebody who is, that they pay attention to in this part is like we had people who would say, hey, love you, praying for you, or hey, we're thinking about you.

We're so sorry.

Let us know if we can do anything.

It's the worst thing to say to somebody who's going through literally so

if you understood how the brain doesn't function under that level of stress the the idea to even answer here's what I need you to do for me is really really hard and I'm not like again I'm not like slamming anybody who said that to us or to others I just want to give awareness on what to do we had a couple friends one my brother one of his best friends from high school I haven't talked to this girl in like 25 years you know like I mean it's crazy We got home after that crazy day and spending five hours waiting and making sure that our friends and our kids kids were alive.

and we showed up and there was dinner on our front door wow

people who have been through really hard traumatic things they know how to serve people who are going through those because they've been through it before and have seen what we've seen now which is don't ask just solve a problem and solve the most basic problem that you can find and so when we got home and dinner was there we were like our kids haven't eaten in like 10 hours like

like simple stuff right and to me i'll never forget that and i'll never forget what what she did for our family yeah um And I hadn't even talked to her in 25 years.

Powerful.

So simple things.

When people are going through hard things, just solve a problem that's really practical.

Don't ask them how.

They can't think.

So just like solve it

and love on it.

That's the best advice I've ever heard.

It's so simple.

But yeah, people, when a loved one passes, they're like, how can I help?

Nothing.

Don't send flowers either.

No, it sounds so crazy.

And my grandmother taught me this after she lost her son.

She says, we had so many flowers that it like flowers traumatized me because there were so many flowers.

Just solve a simple problem.

Right.

dinner would make

dude it's so simple make that night honestly oh dinner that would mean a lot and it shows because the person you did it i hadn't talked to in 25 years

yeah

so again people just know there's a there's a deepness there that they just know how to serve in that moment and so that's what i'm going to be looking to do tonight is how can i help those people who are going through a lot of stuff i love it nick any final messages anything you want to get off your chest before we wrap up dude it's my only consistent one that i like to tell people which is if you you want to change the world, encourage five people a day.

People are starving for a sense of encouragement, and it's such a simple thing that we can do.

And

so, that's my story.

I'm sticking to it, brother.

We'll link your socials below next a couple of days.

Thanks, man.

Appreciate you, brother.

Thank you.