The $46 Trillion Health Crisis No One's Talking About | Dr. Anthony Chaffee DSH #909

And so

people argue, well, then, you know, this is just that ketogenic diet sort of mimics the metabolism that you'd be in when you're fasting.

And we know that fasting is really good for you, so it's just mimicking that.

But I argue that fasting actually mimics the metabolic state we're supposed to be in all the time anyway, which is a ketogenic diet, which is the same metabolic

pathway that most animals are in the wild.

All right, guys, Dr.

Anthony Chafee here today.

We're going to talk the carnivore and ketosis.

How's good?

Good to it, baby.

Any new studies or findings recently come across your desk?

Well, there are new studies coming out all the time on ketogenic diets in general.

Carnivore diet is a ketogenic diet.

And typically, what a ketogenic diet is, is you're eliminating out carbohydrates and you'll go into a different, completely different metabolic state.

And you start running on your own body fat, and you produce the carbohydrates, ketones, and glycogen that you need.

And so instead of bringing in a lot of carbohydrates and shutting down your metabolism, you actually are allowing your metabolism free a bit.

And so there's more and more research coming out on ketogenic diets.

A carnivore diet is a ketogenic diet.

And

when you eliminate out carbohydrates, you have to replace it with fat and protein.

Where does that fat and protein come from?

It typically comes from meat.

And most of the studies show that.

It's a high-fat, meat-based, ketogenic diet.

And a carnivore diet is a high-fat, meat-based ketogenic diet.

It's just you're cutting out the rest of the stuff too, like vegetables.

So, there are more studies coming out on a pure carnivore version of a ketogenic diet, but those are a lot of those are in the works as well.

But there are literally thousands of randomized controlled trials in humans on a high-fat, meat-based, ketogenic diet.

You know, may include vegetables or not, but the main thing is being ketogenic.

And it is so, the ketogenic diet is the most well-studied diet

in the world.

There isn't a single other diet form that has the rigor of scientific testing that a ketogenic diet has.

And looking at specific endpoints and diseases.

So things like diabetes has been shown in clinical trials to be reversible with a high-fat, meat-based ketogenic diet.

Alzheimer's.

A high-fat, meat-based ketogenic diet has been shown in experimental data in humans to be a better treatment for Alzheimer's than every medication ever trialed.

Whoa.

Yeah.

That's crazy.

We know we have quite a lot of studies showing the benefits of fasting.

And so if you just fast for a period of time, people can reverse a lot of diseases.

We see this in different traditional cultures and religions going back thousands of years that this can be beneficial.

And we have studies showing that as well.

And so

people argue, well, then, you know, this is just the key jank diet sort of mimics the metabolism that you'd be in when you're fasting.

And we know that fasting is really good for you.

So it's just mimicking that.

What I argue is that fasting actually mimics the metabolic state we're supposed to be in all the time anyway, which is a ketogenic diet, which is the same metabolic

pathway that most animals are in the wild.

So carnivores, 70% of animal species are carnivores.

They eat just meat, which is protein and fat.

And so they're on a ketogenic diet.

Lions have been found to be in ketosis.

And that makes sense because they're not eating carbs, but also herbivores, because herbivores that eat fibrous plants, fibrous drinks of glucose, you think, okay, well, they're getting carbohydrates.

But in fact, they don't eat, they don't digest the fiber.

No vertebrate animal can break down fiber, cellulose.

I mean, this is fiber.

And so it's actually

feeding their microorganisms in their gut.

And as a byproduct, they actually produce saturated fat.

And then the proteins die off and they absorb those as proteins.

So even cows and gorillas and these sorts of fibrous animals that eat fibrous plants, they're also getting the majority of their calories from protein and fat and are in ketosis.

So I think that's our natural metabolic state.

That's where all of our heavy machinery comes to bear.

That's where a lot of health benefits come from.

So some of these studies actually aren't termed ketogenic diet or low carb because it's sort of a four-letter word in some academic circles.

They just don't want to hear about it.

The carb word?

Yeah, the carb or ketogenic.

They just think, oh,

that's just a weird fat or something like that.

So sometimes they'll hide it and they'll say, well, since we know fasting is really good for reversing diabetes or helping this sort of health issue.

Well, what about, but fasting is really hard.

So what about a diet that mimics the metabolic state of fasting?

It's what's called a fasting mimicking diet or FMD.

And so you can find a lot of papers called

fasting mimicking diets, which is a ketogenic diet.

And they find that they have the same benefits as fasting, if not more benefits as well.

So, yeah, there's actually quite a lot of studies coming out recently.

There have been a number of studies, actually, large randomized control trials

in people over at Harvard.

That's not published yet, but it's in the works for looking at reversing and putting into remission major depression, OCD, bipolar disorder, even schizophrenia.

Wow.

With a professor, Chris Palmer over at Harvard.

And he's been

in his clinical practice

applying this to his patient population for years now and finding that you can reverse these major, major issues because you're fixing the metabolism.

He's arguing that these mental health issues are actually metabolic issues as well.

You get metabolic derangement.

It damages your mitochondria, which are the powerhouses of the cell.

And when those don't act properly, your cells don't work properly and your neurons are cells.

And so your brain doesn't work properly.

And you get these mental health issues.

And so you fix your metabolic health.

You fix your mitochondria.

All of a sudden, things start working better.

There was a

study that was done in France

and

it was an interventional experimental trial, but it wasn't randomized control.

They just took 31 people that had treatment resistant, major mental health issues, so major depression, OCD, bipolar, and schizophrenia, schizooffective disorder.

And these people were severely affected and they were treatment resistant.

It's really unfortunate, but the standard of care that we have right now in modern medicine only works well for about 10% of people with these serious mental health issues.

And then there's another 40% or so that get some benefit, but not complete benefit.

And the rest of it really does nothing for.

Those are the treatment-resistant populations.

And so they took just the treatment-resistant population that standard of care just did nothing for for some of these people for well over a decade, all treated by the same psychiatrist, which is important.

So they're getting consistent continuity of care.

And they said, okay, would you be willing to go on a ketogenic diet?

Some of these people really couldn't live on their own.

They had to be institutionalized, things like that.

And so

they put them on a high-fat, meat-based ketogenic diet, like a carnivore diet.

And

they found that 28 of them were able to stay on a ketogenic diet for at least three weeks.

That was the minimum cutoff.

And of those 28 people, every single one improved.

And I think it was about two-thirds went into complete remission.

Whoa.

And they were completely treatment resistant.

Standard of care had not worked for them at all.

And so that was a major finding.

And now they're, and now that's not, that's not a randomized controlled trial, but now they're doing randomized controlled trials.

And so that's, that's some of the new exciting research over at Harvard.

And so that's, that's, yeah, that's

sort of been in the.

So you believe if every single human was on a ketogenic diet, the rate of disease would go down?

Oh, my goodness.

Yes.

Absolutely.

The large burden of disease are these so-called non-communicable chronic diseases.

So, things like diabetes, heart disease, cancer,

mental health issues,

Alzheimer's, dementia, Parkinson's,

autoimmune issues.

All of these things, they cannot be passed on.

They just live in your body and you get them or you don't.

And people think, well, it's just part of getting older.

You just get unlucky.

It's genetic.

Well, if it was genetic, then why is the prevalence of these things going up decade after decade after decade?

So there's more people in society that are being afflicted with this.

Well,

that's just screening.

We're getting better at screening.

Like, I'm sorry, but you have somebody with Crohn's disease and you have 30 bouts of bloody diarrhea every single day.

Like, you're not going to miss that.

So it's not a screening issue.

And, you know, cancer rates have skyrocketed.

They've more than tripled in the last 40 years.

Now, one in two people.

throughout the course of their life will get cancer.

Holy crap.

One in two.

That's crazy.

Yeah, it is nuts.

It's a coin flip.

Exactly.

And so then you look at places like India.

I mean,

they're some of the most metabolically sick people in the world.

They also eat some of the least amount of meat in the world.

They eat about three kilos of meat per person per year.

They have some of the highest metabolic disease and diabetes rates in the world.

America, and we talk about America where we get...

get painted as being the sickest country in the world and having horrible metabolic health and everyone's overweight and just eating junk food and evil meats that makes them all sick.

But our diabetes rate is 9%.

And we have a lot of pre-diabetes, about 40% pre-diabetic, but diabetes is 9%.

Well, India, where they eat hardly any meat, it's 25%.

And that was published in The Lancet in 2018.

And that was looking at rural populations as well as urban populations.

They were both 25%.

So it wasn't just people living in the cities that were getting a higher affliction rate.

It was everybody.

25%.

And that's diagnosed.

And so people in India have a much

less access to medicine.

So, it could be higher than that.

There could be more people that are diabetic, and they just

haven't discovered that.

So, yes, I do think so.

90% of the things that we treat nowadays as doctors are these non-communicable chronic diseases.

90% of the mortality of the deaths in Western countries come from non-communicable chronic diseases.

74% of deaths around the world are from non-communicable chronic diseases.

And so, that is the major, major burden of healthcare.

Now, you you look at the animal kingdom,

you know, deer don't get lupus, right?

They don't, you know, typically get any of these diseases that we would see, even animals in the zoo, if they're being fed their correct diet.

And there are signs at the zoo that's very clear, say, don't feed the animals.

It makes them very sick

if they eat anything that they're not designed to eat.

And so they're saying, don't feed the animals the thing that you're eating right now.

It makes them sick.

What's it doing to us?

Wow.

Or, you know, don't feed bread to ducks at the park because it can make them sick.

It It will give them diabetes.

Wow.

Right.

And it can give them diabetes.

And fatty liver.

I mean, how do we make foie gras?

You know, that's that literally means fat liver.

Right.

Right.

We stuff a tube down a duck or a goose's throat and we pour grains down.

Right.

How do we get marbling intramuscular fat in steaks?

We give them a bunch of grains.

Well, in humans, that's called myosteatosis.

It's a pathological sign that we see on MRI, and that denotes very serious metabolic dysfunction.

So

we're causing metabolic dysfunction in the animals because it increases the fat and pathological deposition of fat in the liver and in the muscle tissues because it tastes better.

Wow.

Waggy, right?

Waggy, exactly.

And it doesn't matter that they're getting sick because we're going to slaughter them anyway.

But we get sick.

So the exact same practices that we're doing to animals to make them sick and get this pathological fat deposition in their muscles and organs, we're doing that to ourselves as well.

In the 1930s, there was an article about getting the poundage up on pigs and increasing their fat content and making them bigger and a bigger product.

And the way they did that was giving them grains

and also skim milk, which was a byproduct of the cream and butter industry.

And so they just was just sort of a throwaway product.

And they found that giving the combination of grains and skim milk actually increased their hunger.

And so they overeat.

And when you're eating grains, that can raise your insulin, that can then drop your blood sugar, and so you feel a little down.

So you want to eat more, but it also blocks a hormone called leptin, which is your satiety hormone.

So you're blocking that and you tend to overeat.

And then milk has casomorphines, which cause a baby mammal to drink more because you're trying to encourage babies to get their weight up and grow.

And so when you drink that as an adult, it still will trigger that hunger signal.

So you have this combination of grains and skim milk.

And all of a sudden it says specifically in this 1930s article paper that

the reason that this worked is because

it caused them to overeat.

So what is grains and skin milk?

That's breakfast cereal.

Right.

Right.

So we're doing this to ourselves.

And we look at these same diseases, these non-communicable chronic diseases.

Animals get them too, but only animals in captivity.

Wow.

And so only animals that are being fed something outside of their typical evolved, species-appropriate biological diet.

And so you get dogs and cats, which are known carnivores, and yet we're giving them food and kibble that has some meat in it so they get the nutrients that they need, but it's packed out with grains

because it's cheaper.

And you put something on it, you know, like put science in the name and people go, oh, this is supposed to be, well, science actually tells us that they're supposed to eat meat.

That's what science tells us.

And then, you know, marketing agencies tell us otherwise.

And they get sick, and they get obesity, and they get diabetes, and they get cancer, and they get

autoimmune issues, and arthritis, and they get

osteoporosis, and these sorts of things.

But

that's not typical.

And those disease rates have gone up and up and up in recent decades.

The average life expectancy in the U.S.

of a golden retriever in the 1970s was 17 years.

Whoa.

Now it's nine years.

So it got cut in half.

Got cut in half.

And I think that's directly because of the food that we're feeding them.

There's a big shift.

That was when we started switching over to Kibble, it was in the 80s.

And

now vets are talking about how there's a massive increased prevalence in so-called human diseases in domesticated pets.

So these human diseases, these non-communicable chronic diseases, such as metabolic disorder or diabetes and all these other sorts of things.

And those are human diseases.

Okay, well, what the hell is a human disease, right?

Well, it's non-communicable, so we know we're not passing it to anybody.

and yet they catch it when they eat this other diet.

And you talk to zookeepers and they know you feed any animal outside of what they're supposed to eat, they get sick.

And what they get sick with, they get all the same things we get.

They get the so-called human diseases.

And I've spoken to some

people and I sort of knew the answer ahead of time, but I asked them, I was like, do you ever give them like...

you know, like grains or dog food or anything like that?

And the guy said, he's like, are you out of your mind?

Like, you know, if you give animals that garbage, they'll get human diseases.

Right.

So if you feed the animal human food, they get human diseases.

When you don't feed them that food, they don't get human diseases.

That means directly that the food is causing the disease.

And we see this in

pre-agricultural populations.

So the Native Americans, especially in the Great Plains, when they had a lot of access to meat, bison, they would do a buffalo drop, knock over a bunch of bison, and just eat those throughout the year.

Other places, they didn't have as much animals available to them, so they had to sort of flesh out their meals with plants that they grew locally.

But they also had specific ways of preparing them.

Maize was, corn was prepared with a process called niche tomalization, which is a complex process to lower the toxic load and increase the bioavailability of the nutrients of corn.

They had

fermentation, all these other sorts of processes that we use to lower the toxic load of plants.

So plants defend themselves by being toxic.

All plants are toxic.

They make about a million different defense chemicals in order to protect themselves from animals and insects.

Animals are hard to catch.

They're hard to kill because they'll fight back.

They'll run away.

Those are their defenses.

But once you get them and you take them down, it's the most bioavailable and nutritious food that exists on this earth.

Plants are easy to catch.

They're just sitting there.

So they can't just be straight up nutritious.

Their major defense is by being physically poisonous.

And so, their traditional ways of eating plants are, you know, it was never raw food vegan or anything like that.

It was very specific ways of preparing these plants to make them more nutritious, but also lower the toxic load.

And so, when you look at these

pre-agricultural societies, and anthropologists talk about this, and these sort of hunter-gatherer populations,

that the

health issues that afflict them are very different than what we have.

It's basically infections and injuries, childbirth.

Mothers can die in childbirth, infant mortality rates, things like that are pretty high, but they don't get these chronic diseases.

And people say, well, it's because they only live 30 years.

That's not true.

Right now,

pre-agricultural hunter-gatherer populations, when they've been studied, as long as you're not killed by something, so there's a difference between average life expectancy from birth.

and how long you live if you die of old age.

And so since the infant mortality rate is much higher and you're fighting off panthers and maybe polar bears and things like that up in the Arctic North with the Inuit,

that's obviously going to lower your average life expectancy from birth.

When they look at the people and how long they live, it's old age.

Actually, people are living just as long, if not longer, than people today.

Wow.

And they don't get these chronic diseases.

And anthropologists talk about this shift.

in the health issues.

And they look at just infections, chronic disease, infant mortality, things like that, and injuries being attacked by lions, things like that.

And then when they go to post-agricultural sort of civilized sort of society, they then have a shift and they get more of the diseases of civilization, which are also called human diseases, which are also called chronic diseases.

And 100 years ago, 150 years ago, they were called Western diseases because we only saw these diseases in Western populations.

We didn't see them in the Native Americans and the Native Australians and the Native Canadians and Alaskans and so on.

Or the Maasai or the Nanette or

these populations that are still alive today.

And some of them are still living in a traditional way.

They don't get these diseases.

In Australia, when I first went down to practice there, I was told that

basically day one, that

if you got an Australian Aboriginal patient, whatever age it said on their sticker, basically add 20 years to that because they just age so much more quickly and they develop diseases more quickly.

And so if you had someone in their 30s and 40s, you had to consider them in a geriatric population.

They start thinking about the heart diseases and the cancers and the afflictions that affected 60-year-olds, 70-year-olds, and things like that.

Why is that?

Because they, well, because they age more quickly, but I think it's because they haven't been exposed to agricultural food for very long.

You know, our ancestors would have had thousands of years to acclimatize and and be accustomed and try to build up some sort of resistances to the toxins in plants but the australian natives and the american natives

especially in you know certain parts uh it's really only the last hundred hundred and fifty years that they've been exposed to this you know some some areas that did have agriculture um but the large majority of their diet was was meat especially in the great plains with like the bison like they had access to meat all the

historical records I've found to be very consistent that when they had access to meat, they would just eat meat and they'd sort of fill in the gaps with plants if they had to.

But then there's places like in the Arctic North where you know the Inuit are, you know, the First Nation people of Canada now.

There's no plants growing up in the Arctic Circle.

You're not cultivating any crops, you're not growing potatoes or anything like that.

And so they just ate meat.

And they have,

when eating a Western diet, they get more sick.

Native American, I heard this when I was a kid, that Native Americans, when eating a Western diet, had four times the burden of disease, chronic disease, obesity, heart disease, cancer, diabetes, all these things than the rest of Americans.

Wow.

And I remember thinking at the time that, well, doesn't that mean the food is causing the disease?

Because if they don't eat the food, they don't get the disease.

And we get the food and we get the disease just at a lower rate.

And what's a non-Western diet?

Whether they eating that we're not and vice versa.

And, you know, no one told me at the time, but they were, they were carnivores.

They were predominantly eating meat.

And, uh, and then, you know, the plants that they grew and prepared in specific traditional ways, you know, on top of that as well.

But they weren't having any of the highly processed garbage.

They were eating a lot of meat whenever they could.

And it was just a very different

diet and lifestyle.

And when you switch away from that, you start seeing a massive increase in disease.

And I think that is the true healthcare crisis and we argue about what healthcare system we want do we want a public system or a private system or something new that we haven't thought of yet it doesn't matter because any system is going to collapse and crumble under the weight of the the growing burden of the chronic disease epidemic uh

harvard university uh school of public health

published a massive study looking at the economic burden of chronic disease.

Just five five chronic diseases,

heart disease or cardiovascular disease, COPD, diabetes, cancer, and mental health disorders.

Just those five.

So obviously a lot of other ones as well that are very expensive and costly.

Just those five, they found

that

in 2010, I'm going to have rough numbers here, so forgive me, but around worldwide, we spent about $8 trillion

in treating that in the direct and indirect costs of treating those diseases.

By 2030, it's estimated to be up around $14 trillion, trillion with a T, right?

And so that's worldwide.

So it's nearly doubled in that period of time.

26 years?

20 years.

Yeah, so 2010 to 2030.

And so,

but then

they looked at more than that.

They looked at the

cost to, you know, the lost opportunity costs, so people not being able to work, not being able to take care of their family, not being involved in the economy, getting getting on disability, these other sorts of things.

And they found that between 2010 and 2030, we're basically going to spend around $46 trillion in lost opportunity costs.

So that's $46 trillion out of the economy that we don't have access to.

And the biggest one was premature deaths.

So people dying young, someone having a heart attack in their 30s and not being productive for the next 50 years or 40 years, however long you're productive.

And

that they found in 2010 to be around $23 trillion a year

lost to the world.

And by 2030, they're expecting that to be up around $43 trillion a year that we're losing.

So the burden of the healthcare crisis is not just the $14, $15 trillion a year that we're spending.

It's the $43, $45, $50 trillion in lost opportunity and early deaths that we're losing from the economy as well.

So we're realistically thinking about $50, $60 trillion a year that we're losing out of the economy that could be going towards very useful things and just being more productive as well.

So

any healthcare system is going to collapse and crumble under that.

And it's not going to be able to survive.

And so we need to fix that first.

And then

we can argue about

what...

system would be best.

Yeah.

Do you think that's fixable with the average salary in America right now?

Because this diet might be kind of expensive, right?

It's surprisingly less expensive.

And you think about it,

processed food, junk food, I mean, potato chips cost more per pound than steak does, but also spinach does too.

Spinach per pound costs more than meat, and you get a pound of meat or two pounds of meat.

That's every nutrient that you need in the proportion that you need it for 24 hours.

That's perfect nutrition for 24 hours.

One pound of meat?

Well, depending on the size of the person.

So for me, I would probably be

6'3, 230.

So

I generally eat around two pounds of very fatty meat, so like fatty, ribeye quality sort of fat.

I get that sort of amount of fat.

And

so two, two and a half pounds that I would have a day.

And if I'm working out and I'm exercising, my body wants to put on muscle, which I found to be far more easy to put on muscle on a carnivore diet than anything else I've ever done, even as a

high-level athlete and rugby player in the US and UK.

And

then I'll need more.

So if I'm working out, I'm pushing myself, then I just need more.

So I could eat up to four pounds, but four pounds of ground beef is still only about $20, $24.

And usually the higher fat.

Ground beef is less expensive.

So you're actually saving money there and you want the fat.

The fat's actually an essential nutrient.

It's not just a calorie source.

There are essential fatty acids that you have to have or you can get sick and die.

They're essential fat-soluble vitamins that you have to have or you can get sick and die.

Your brain is made out of fat.

60-70% of your brain is made out of fat and a large portion made out of cholesterol as well.

Cholesterol is really important.

So important that your brain makes cholesterol.

And there are countless studies talking about how if you disrupt your brain's metabolism for cholesterol, you get very serious neurocognitive

disabilities and problems.

And yet we're doing everything we can to disrupt our normal cholesterol modulation and metabolism.

Taking medications that will cross into the brain and suppress your brain's ability to make cholesterol, changing our diet so we have less cholesterol, all these sorts of things.

And we're doing this with children too, which is, I think, is honestly a crime against humanity because you have to have fat and cholesterol, high amounts of fat and cholesterol in your diet.

You need to be in ketosis to properly develop your brain and nervous system because

ketones cross the blood-brain barrier.

Ketones are from fat oxidization.

They're just basically a fuel

based on fat.

And they cross freely

into the brain.

They cross the blood-brain barrier and

they

act as fuel and two-thirds of your brain optimally run on ketones.

So if you have enough ketones and you have enough glucose, two-thirds of your brain will only run on those ketones.

So it's actually a preference.

It's only when you start getting less ketones or not enough ketones that you start filling in the gaps with glucose.

And so some will still run on glucose, but the majority, including the cortex, is what we do our thinking with,

is optimally fueled on ketones.

But the ketones also can reconstitute into fatty acids and make up the physical structures of your brain.

So when a baby's brain is growing and a child's brain is growing, it's really important for them to get ketones, a lot of ketones, a lot of fat.

So a baby in the womb is in ketosis.

Wow.

Even though they're carbohydrates in breast milk, when a baby is breastfeeding, they're in ketosis because it's a lot easier for them to be in ketosis because they need to be in ketosis for their brain.

And then we get them onto really high-sugar baby food and formula, and actually suppresses the ketones and the ketos, and you're not giving the proper fat.

Dang, so you're not a fan of baby formula.

No, no, no.

That's a lot of parents use that, right?

They do, and sometimes their circumstances require that they do.

And that's unfortunate because they don't have the same,

they don't have the same makeup as breast milk.

They have sort of different fats they say well you have to have omega-6s so you know you need uh seed oils like vegetable oils and things like that well vegetable oils do have omega-6s but they have the wrong omega-6s we don't need omega-6s we need arachidonic acid which is an omega-6

we don't need random omega-3s we need specific omega-3s dha epa for our brain 20 of your brain is DHA.

Massive proportion of your brain and your body is made out of fat.

And so breast milk is actually the highest concentration of saturated fat and cholesterol of any food in nature.

And so, why are we scared of this?

Why are we saying that this is bad for us?

And, first of all, that's been completely discredited, that whole cholesterol heart hypothesis.

But, you know, just looking at what kids need to eat, they need fat and cholesterol.

Getting back to your point about cost, it actually ends up being cheaper.

So, a pound of spinach costs way more than a pound of ground beef, certainly.

And it can cost more than many steaks do per pound.

And you're not going to get all the nutrition you need from spinach.

You will get all the nutrition you need from steak.

With that spinach, you're going to need to buy.

30 other things.

Half of them are going to go bad and spoil before the other ones get used.

And so you end up having a lot of waste.

Meat, I've really never had to throw out meat.

The worst case scenario, give it to my dogs.

They're on a raw meat diet as well.

They're healthy as hell.

I'll just switch my dogs over to that.

Oh, perfect.

their skin is way better already.

Yeah.

And they look healthier.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And they will be.

They absolutely will be.

And they'll live longer too and much more healthfully.

And so, you know, I don't have any waste.

I have actually saved a lot of money.

I'm not buying coffees and snacks and thises and thats or whatever.

I eat two pounds of meat.

and I'm good for 24 hours.

It's really convenient too, you know, for people with a busy schedule because I'm just not hungry.

You know, I eat a big meal.

I eat until it stops.

I eat fatty meat until until it stops tasting good.

I can listen to my body's signals.

I don't have to figure out with a calculator how much to eat.

You're never going to see a koala pull out of a calculator to figure out what to eat, right?

And so if you need a calculator to figure out your macros, you're probably eating the wrong thing.

I was never a fan of that trend.

There's apps that do it now.

You got to input everything you eat.

Yeah, that's it.

Like, where is that in nature?

Nature is natural.

It has to happen just on its own.

And so if we have to figure out something and calculate it, it means we're probably eating the wrong thing because we should be able to eat intuitively.

We should just be able to just eat our natural, biologically appropriate diet and listen to our natural instincts.

We're not here from space.

We're animals, just like every other animal on this earth.

We came from this planet and those same biological laws apply.

No animal in the wild,

you don't see like a fat badger waddling around.

Oh, that one just doesn't have any self-control.

They know what to eat.

They know how much to eat, and they know when to stop.

And we do too, if we're eating the right thing.

And and that's a testimony to it being the right thing.

If you're just eating fatty meat and you eat until it stops tasting good, your body will perfectly regulate what's coming in and out.

And so you don't need to worry about it.

And I think that is a big testimony to understanding that this actually is our biologically appropriate way of eating.

Right.

Yeah, that's a good point because you'll never see fat animals in the wild, but you'll see fat dogs, fat cats, fat humans.

Yeah.

And but only when eating inappropriate diets, you know, like dogs that are just eating meat.

I mean, you put as much meat as you want in your dog's dish.

It will eat a certain amount and it will stop.

Really?

You think they'll stop?

Oh, yeah, they will.

Wow.

I want to test that out because my dogs be pounding the food I give them.

Yeah.

Well, maybe they need a bit more.

But there is a point that they'll stop.

And because they know, you know, look in the wild again.

I mean,

you have animals out on pasture, right?

You have cows that just live.

on their own food and uh and yet they stop sometimes you know they they they monitor how much they're eating um or actually they don't have to monitor but they they stop naturally koalas they live in a tree they have no natural predators they're just sitting there lazy as a lump and they're just sitting there just eating leaves and then they stop right they could just keep going but something in them tells them to stop uh lions you look at a pride of lions and king lion the alpha gets to when they make a kill Alpha gets to eat as much as he wants of what he wants.

It typically goes for the belly.

That's where more fat fat is.

That's like bacon is the belly, belly meat.

And there's a lot of fat around the organs.

The omentum is nearly completely fat.

It's fat around the kidneys.

The mesentery, which is the blood supply to

the intestines, it's completely covered in fat.

So there's a lot of fat in the abdomen.

And I think that's why they're going for the abdomen as opposed to, oh, they're getting all the organs.

Organs are great.

There's a lot of nutrients in them.

But they're going for the fat, I believe, because they leave like the haunches, the hindquarters.

They're very, very lean.

Lions will often leave those and eat the fattier parts of the animal first, unless they're very hungry.

And then the hyenas will come in, they'll eat the hindquarters, and they'll be, their jaws are strong enough to crack open the bones and get at the marrow, which is more fat.

And so animals always go for the fat.

So King Lion goes for the fat, goes for the abdomen, eats as much as he wants.

No other animal gets to touch that thing until King Lion's done.

And so they're all just waiting.

I've seen videos of these where they're just like impatiently waiting, like, oh my God, I want to get in there.

And, you know, daddy lion is just doing his thing.

And then all of a sudden, it's just, he's done.

He could, and then the rest of them come in and devour the thing, but

he could just keep going until he just made himself sick and was just rolling on the back.

Oh, my God, you know,

yeah, exactly.

But it doesn't, you know, and they don't get fat.

You know, it doesn't get overweight.

They're ripped.

They're like on steroids.

And people say, well, they're in the wild.

They're really active.

I mean, everyone knows that male lions aren't all that active.

And, you know, and but also it doesn't explain animals in the zoo, right?

And that's what most people say is that, well, animals in the wild, they're always running around.

Koalas don't run around anywhere.

They're basically sitting there.

A lot of animals are just very sedentary, unless they have to be

active.

And but again, it doesn't explain animals in the zoo that live in a box the size of this room.

It's the definition of a sedentary lifestyle.

They just sit in an enclosed area and don't go anywhere.

And yet, when fed their natural diet, they also look very strong, very muscular, very lean.

And

so that's the thing.

If they fed them grains and inappropriate food, they would get fat.

But they're not.

So being fed the appropriate diet.

And even though they're getting no activity, no exercise to speak of, they're extremely muscular and lean and healthy.

And so I think that's because of the diet.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't see too many healthy vegans.

The only one I've seen actually is Brian Johnson.

Yeah, well, he takes 160 different supplements and he has a whole team spending about $3 million a year year keeping him that way.

The

interesting thing about Brian Johnson is he said that,

well, and he may have changed his opinion on this, but I did hear him say at one point that he

wasn't doing the vegan diet because he thought it was the healthiest diet.

That was just his choice.

That's how he wanted to do it.

And so he had his team figure it out.

And so it's like, okay, I want to do a vegan diet.

I want to do it this way.

You figure out how that works.

And so that's why he's taking 160 different supplements a day because you have to.

There are essential nutrients that you cannot get from the entire plant kingdom, from the entire fungus kingdom.

They just don't exist.

B12 is the classic example, but there are more.

I mean, you look at, and that's the argument too.

You cannot say that

humans are herbivores for a lot of reasons, but it just starts and stops at B12.

There's no B12 in the plant kingdom.

You have to get that from meat.

And so we couldn't be herbivores.

We couldn't have evolved as herbivores, and we didn't evolve as herbivores.

I mean, that's absurd.

All the best evidence shows that humans have been apex predators, top of the food chain, which by definition means carnivore, for at least 2 million years, if not longer.

Yeah.

2 million?

Homo habilis, with the onset of the ice ages, two, two and a half million years ago, there was this inflection point in early human and then human evolution where

8 million years ago or so,

we split off.

from our ancestors who were largely herbivorous and because they started eating meat they started eating more and more meat more and more meat, they started having more genetic adaptations to closer to what we are today, started getting taller, started getting bigger brains because we had to figure out how to get meat.

We weren't just naturally predisposed to hunting like a lion, taking things down.

We had to scavenge, we had to figure out how we could take a rock and smash open the skull of a dead animal and eat the brains and things like that.

And then get sharpened tools.

About 3.3 million years ago, we got the first example of a sharpened tool that we can now use to cleave and cut off meat off the bone.

And we see butcher marks, very classic, clear signs of butchery on

bones around that time and beyond, showing that this was intentional butchering and carving and ripping off meat with these stone tools that were again found in that area.

And you can see

the deposits in those cut marks in the bones that came from that flint.

axe over there.

And so we have very good information about this.

So our brains were growing, our jaws were getting smaller, teeth were getting smaller smaller because

we're eating softer and softer foods.

We're not chewing on sticks all day like a gorilla, right?

And so we had these adaptations.

Then about two, two and a half million years ago, the ice ages started.

We didn't actually have polar ice caps two and a half million years ago or so.

When the ice ages started, we're in an ice age.

We're sort of in an ebb of an ice age.

When that ice shelf started coming down, obviously ice kills things and it stops, you know, kills animals and plants and things like that that were surviving in the area and animals had to specially adapt or die out.

And our ancestors in Homo habilis did.

And the adaptation that they had was they were able to turn to full carnivore apex predators.

So they weren't just scavenging now and then getting a kill every now and then.

Now they were able, they had the technology and the brain power and the tactics to be able to take down large animals and get the whole animal.

You can get the organs, you can get the meat, you could get all the fat.

You weren't just getting the scraps.

And there's an inflection point in our evolution at that point.

So our height and brain size was coming up steadily over millions of years since our ancestors started eating meat.

And about two and a half million years ago, bam, it's just an

exponential increase in brain capacity and cranial capacity and height.

Up until about 15,000 years ago, it's going up and up and up and up and up and bang, straight down.

Straight down.

And

anthropologists and paleoanthropologists show that in the fossil record, there's a clear point right at the point of the agricultural revolution.

And this isn't just in all over the world this happened.

This happened when a society went from pre-agriculture to post-agriculture, starting about 10,000 years ago.

But

at other points in time, people have come across agriculture or been introduced to agriculture.

And you see the exact same thing.

And as

I'm going to butcher his name, it's Professor Ulajasik

from Oxford.

I can get it spelled for you if you like.

I'm good on that.

Yeah.

But he said that

starting about 10,000 years ago,

you saw a clear, distinct line in pre- and post-agriculture that the height, the same thing occurred, regardless of the time, regardless of location, and regardless of the type of crop that they moved to, the same things happened.

The height, health, and height and health of the population declined.

And they said there's all these signs of malnutrition, infectious disease, and all these other things that came on afterwards.

The jaws got smaller, started getting crooked teeth, fallen dental arches.

Weston A.

Price was a dentist 100 years ago.

He showed this in these native populations.

They had perfect teeth, perfect dental arches, until they started eating Western food.

and didn't get enough fatty meat.

And specifically, he found that it was the fat-soluble vitamins that you needed to develop your hard palate and your dental arches and jaw.

And in the same families, all of a sudden, you know, Johnny starts eating this other stupid food that coming

from

the towns and has screwed up teeth.

And then they can reverse that by giving him fatty meat and whole milk and things like that.

And then the next generations, they could

get the teeth back, things like that.

But we saw that you can tell the difference between a pre-agricultural and post-agricultural skeleton and teeth, especially because of that.

Dang.

And the brains went down.

So

after agriculture, the adult male brain capacity reduced by 11%.

Female adult brain capacity went down by 17%.

And the average height went down by about five inches.

Holy crap.

And so that wasn't over hundreds of years or thousands of years.

That wasn't an adaptation process.

That was overnight in the fossil record.

So that happened immediately.

And that's persisted until today.

And we saw this in real time again with the Native Americans the Native Canadians

The Native Australians and we're seeing it in the Maasai as well who are traditionally carnivores although they have a large portion of that carnivore diet being milk but milk blood and meat is their is their staple diet and they started introducing some plants throughout the 20th century and they started getting some of these human diseases throughout the 20th century as well.

Now they have Coca-Cola trucks going to the Masai Mara and these little villages and they sell out very quickly because they don't know how harmful this this stuff is.

And now their diabetes is actually going up and their tooth decay is going up and their chronic diseases are going up, even though traditionally they're extremely healthy.

So now they're seeing that inflection point that anthropologists talk about, that they go from

this just injuries and infectious disease and actually pretty low infectious disease rate.

There's a study out of

the British did in the 1920s and early 30s.

They actually had, they're actually extremely healthy.

They had very low rates of

like almost no chronic disease and very very low infectious disease rates as well.

And they were much taller, stronger, healthier, had more lean body mass than their neighbors, the Akikuyu, who they interbred for who knows how many hundreds of years or thousands of years.

So they're a genetically similar population.

And the Akikuyu were largely vegetarian.

And so they were just growing their own crops.

But this is out in the middle of Africa.

They're not in cities.

They don't have pollution.

They don't have

commercial agriculture and

pesticides and fertilizers.

It's just living out on a commune,

growing grains and things like that.

They were much less healthy.

The Maasai were five inches taller on average, 23 pounds heavier of lean body mass, stick skinny, just really svelte people.

and 50% stronger.

And they didn't have any of these chronic disease issues that the Akikuyu had, who also had a lot of nutritional deficiencies.

The British started supplementing them with the different

nutrients that they were lacking.

And it didn't actually make them healthier.

It wasn't until they replaced the plants they were eating with meat that they got healthier.

And

there's no mention of heart disease anywhere in that study with the Maasai in the 1920s.

And yet in the 1970s, you start seeing, oh yeah, well, there's a bit of it there.

But I know people that have volunteered in Africa in the 80s and they were like, yeah, that was never anything we treated.

We never treated these chronic diseases.

It was always

different things.

Now you're seeing it.

Now you're seeing it show up more.

Now you're seeing diabetes, which if you have diabetes, it increases your risk of developing cardiovascular disease by 1,000%,

right?

And metabolic syndrome will increase it by 600%.

And so those are major, major risk factors, those metabolic issues are major risk factors for all these chronic diseases.

And now we're starting to see those in the Maasai.

And we saw those, you know, and those disparities between the Maasai and the Akikuyu, exactly the same disparities that we saw pre- and post-agriculture in the fossil record.

And the Native Americans, especially in the Great Plains, there was a study in 2001 that was just called tallest in the world.

And they looked at records from the late 1800s with the Plains Indians in the Great Plains.

They were largely just eating buffalo and bison.

And then they found that they were the tallest human beings alive on earth at the time.

They were far taller than the Europeans, you know, five, six inches or more taller on average.

And there's sort of an average between them.

Some were ranging from like 5'6 to 5'10 on average, but the Cheyenne were about 5'10 on average, adult male height.

And now in America, last I checked, it was 5'8.

So it was still taller than people here today,

but they were far taller than people at the time.

It was much lower, more like 5'3, 5'4.

And so they were much, much, much taller.

And that was at the end of the 1800s after they killed all the bison and put them on the reservations.

That's a really interesting thing.

So they were still taller than everybody else, even though they had started transitioning onto a more Western diet and started getting sicker and started having

their height come down.

And in those original, those studies and measurements, they said that the older generations were far taller than the younger generations.

And so if they just looked at the older generations or maybe looked 100 years back, the average height would have been much, much taller.

And in fact, we see the fossil record of people going back tens of thousands of years who back before the megafauna died out because we were eating mammoth,

that the big mammoth hunters, that some of these people were on average six foot two to six foot four.

Average.

That's crazy.

Right.

And so, you know, I would, I'm 6'3.

I would be average.

You'd probably be, you know,

a slight above that, but, you know, everyone would be.

You know,

it would just be, you know, a population of, you know, NBA players and things like that.

Yeah, eating a mammoth.

Damn.

Eating mammoth.

Why do you think Asian people are so short?

Well, a lot of it's going to be because of diet as well.

You know, you look at the Mongols.

Well, you look at more recently,

there's been a lot of famines in the 20th century as well with Mao and the forced famines and poverty and things like that.

And of course, if you're not getting adequate nutrition during development, you're not going to grow as tall as you possibly could.

And

we see that all over the place, which is why I think it's a crime against humanity

to be putting kids on vegetarian diets or these processed food diets and formulas and things like that and not and vilifying meat and say, no, no, no, it's bad.

Putting five-year-olds on statins, are you out of your mind?

I mean, but people are talking about that, that you should put kids on statins if their if their cholesterol is high.

They need, it needs to be high.

Their brain needs it to be high.

Their body needs it to be high.

And it's good for you.

Oh, your hormones are made out of cholesterol or your steroid hormones are made out of cholesterol.

Vitamin D is made out of cholesterol.

So

if you're not giving kids adequate nutrition, they're not going to develop properly.

And so, you've had a lot of forced famines and poverty throughout the last century in China and elsewhere.

And people are going to be shorter as a result of that.

Then you see people,

I've known many friends that were first-generation American, and their parents, these wizened little old Chinese people, they're six foot four, just ripped.

Yeah, that happened to me.

Yeah, my grandparents were super short.

There you go.

Yeah, so I think a lot of that's nutritional.

And I think that there's a stark contrast specifically because of the malnutrition that

was prevalent in the 20th century for various reasons.

Look at Genghis Khan, the Mongol whore.

They were carnivores.

They ate horse meat, they drank horseblood and fermented mare's milk.

They're very lactose-intolerant.

It had to be fermented.

And still to this day, persistently lactose-intolerant.

Some of the more lactose-intolerant people in the world as a population.

And yet they have a lot of fermented dairy, but

they can't do the lactose.

And

they obviously carved out the largest contiguous empire that's ever existed on earth.

And you read histories about

Genghis Khan and the Mongols.

And

a large portion of that success was attributed to their diet.

They're extremely well fed.

Even the most base fighter in the

Mongol horde

had a lot of access to meat and high protein and nutritious food while they were fighting against these peasant armies that were just already subjugated.

They're just eating a bunch of gruel.

they had a lot of health issues, and they were just weaker and more frail and just malnourished.

And they actually attribute a lot of their success to how healthy the Mongol people were because they were eating such good food.

Wow.

It also was an advantage because they didn't have to cook three times a day.

So they didn't have to stop their armies and they didn't have all these cook fires going up.

As you can track an army in the horizon by the smoke that's coming up.

I go, okay, see how fast those smoke clouds are moving.

They're going to be here in three days.

Okay, we have three days to prepare.

You didn't have that with the Mongols.

They just showed up out of nowhere.

So they were eating raw meat?

They would eat raw meat.

They could cook it as well.

They would, you know, people always say about,

you know, how you have to, like, there's a thing now in Australia where they're telling, you know, parents not to put lunch meat in their kids' sandwiches because, oh, we don't have refrigeration.

So it could be like three hours before going, oh, you just rot and go to hell.

I'm like, are you out of your mind?

Like, like, no one's ever brought a sandwich to school or work before.

It's like, this is the first time this has ever happened.

The Mongols would take a raw piece of meat and put it under their saddle and ride on it for several days

to tenderize it.

Wow.

And then they'd eat it.

That's savage.

And they could go five days without eating.

She eat 10 pounds of horse meat and then ravage the countryside for another five days and do it again.

And they could drink blood as well.

The Maasai drink blood and you just sort of pop a little hole in a vein and drain some blood and they drink that and it keeps you going.

It's amazing nutrition.

And it's a renewable resource as well.

They're eating grass or turning it into blood.

You're drinking the blood and you just keep going.

It's like milking them.

And you do it in a rotation, so you're not overdoing it.

But

it works very well.

And they were much taller and healthier and more robust as well.

And

so, yeah, so

I think you'll find that in populations, any population, you go back to eating that way, the kids will be taller and smarter and have bigger brains.

We saw this in cats.

There's a very famous doctor named Dr.

Pottinger.

And Dr.

Price, I mentioned before, there's an organization called the Price Pottinger Foundation carrying on his works.

And Pottinger is this other guy, Dr.

Pottinger, who randomly was my mom's doctor as a kid in California at one point.

And said, you need to feed.

I mean, I don't remember the health issues she was having at the time, but basically said, she needs to eat raw meat or raw liver.

And every day she had to have some raw liver every single day.

And actually sorted out her issues.

Wow.

And

he did a study with cats for several years, many years, probably 14 or something years, and looking at nutrition because they were studying tuberculosis and he thought that tuberculosis had something to do with the adrenals.

In fact, it has to do with diet.

Pre- and post-agriculture, pre-agriculture, you don't see any signs of tuberculosis infections.

Post-agriculture, immediately you saw signs of tuberculosis in the spine of

the fossils and things like that.

And then Dr.

J.

Salisbury, who was a New York doctor in the 1800s, did a 30-year research project into the optimal diet for human beings, living with the Native Americans, seeing they were just really healthy with just eating meat, they were living to be 110, 115 years old.

And it's like, oh, well, that's far-fetched.

And I was like, well, actually, it's not because I was taught in genetics class 20 plus years ago that we are designed based on the length of our telomeres and our chromosomes.

Genetically, we're designed to live 120 years on average.

So people actually just living to be 115, 120 years old, that's actually normal.

That should be how long we live.

But we're dying in our 60s and 70s and 80s and calling that a good life

because we're sickening ourselves for decades and eating these low-grade poison and not getting proper nutrition.

And our bodies are just failing 40 years early, 50 years early sometimes.

He was looking at, and Salisbury actually found that when you put people on just a pure red meat and water, this is long before processed food and garbage, you cut out the grains and the vegetables and just eat red meat and water.

He could reverse autoimmunity, like rheumatoid arthritis and Crohn's, reverse gout, and even tuberculosis.

He was actually finding that he was getting people healing from tuberculosis, which was a major killer back then,

by putting them on a pure red meat and water diet.

And so Pottinger was looking at the adrenals.

And so he was taking, doing an adrenalectomy, which they took out the adrenal glands from these cats.

and we're going to expose them to TB and sort of see what happened.

But all the cats were dying.

And so they couldn't figure out what was going on.

People were sort of passing in strays before they all spayed neutered animals back then.

So it was a lot of strays.

So they're getting like a lot of cats, more cats than they knew what to do with.

And

they sort of had more than they needed.

Mostly they were cooking the meat and giving it to the cats.

They're still just giving it meat, but they were cooking it.

And then they sort of, just sort of, for time management, they're like, all right, well, we have too many cats.

We'll cook as much as we can, but then we'll give just raw meat to the rest of them.

The raw meat ones all survived.

All the cooked meat ones died.

Raw meat ones lived.

And they're like, okay, well, what the hell is going on?

And so he switched the focus of his research to, okay,

what nutrients are you losing something when you cook meat?

And they found that, yes, you do.

You lose taurine, you lose glutamine, you lose other sorts of things.

And taurine is essential to cats.

And so they have to have raw meat.

And so they looked at it and they found that the raw meat group, there's a lot to this, but I'll paraphrase and get to the high notes.

The raw meat group was was extremely healthy.

Generation after generation after generation.

Big, strong animals, perfectly formed cheekbones, big brains for a cat, and proper bone density, all that sort of stuff.

And the cooked meat cats, the same meat, it's just cooked, were much less healthy.

And the next generation, they were smaller.

They weighed less.

They had about half the bone density.

Their brains were smaller.

Their cheekbones weren't as developed.

And they weren't as interested in play.

They weren't as interested in mating.

The next generation, they were even sicker, even smaller, less developed facial structures, even smaller brain.

And their bones were so soft because they only had about 3% bone mineralization.

Same amount of calcium.

The calcium doesn't cook out.

But because of how this changed the nutrients and how the body processed these nutrients, their bone mineralization was down around 3%.

And so their bones, they said, were so soft and flexible, it was like foam rubber.

And so they could have dozens of fractures and and they were sterile at that point.

They couldn't have babies.

They weren't even interested in mating, really.

But the ones who sort of did mate couldn't get pregnant or the few that did get pregnant had stillbirths.

So they couldn't make it past the third generation on cooked meat.

And then they switched them to raw meat and they got healthy again.

Now they didn't grow after that because their growth plates were already closed.

So it'd be like your grandparents that

come to an area that had more access to food.

They are much more healthy, but they're done growing at that point.

But their kids could benefit from that.

And so the cats were able to reproduce.

And you'd think, well, the next generation, they'll just be back in normal again.

No, it took four generations to breed back to where the raw meat cats were.

So there's

this multi-generational epigenetic knock-on effect that happens when you aren't as healthy as you could be.

So it's actually a big impact.

So, you know, you're going to be a lot taller than your parents and your grandparents.

And if you eat properly, properly, your kids are going to be even bigger, taller, smarter, and stronger.

Their kids are going to be even better as well.

And we're just going to get taller and taller and taller and better and better.

You know, genetically, I should be six, seven, six, eight.

My grandfather on my father's side, he and all his brothers were pushing seven feet tall.

Wow.

And my dad and his brothers are all from between six, four and six, seven.

So something happened there.

Yeah.

Me and my brothers, 5'10,

6'3,

and 6'4.

So just three generations, we've just gotten a little bit shorter and a little bit shorter and a little bit shorter.

And so

why the hell is that?

Well, you know, we had this big plant-based push throughout the 20th century.

When my dad was

a young man, he started pushing this

whole cholesterol heart hypothesis.

You shouldn't eat fatty meat, all that sort of stuff.

And

so he took that very seriously and we just we ate meat, but we trimmed off all the fat and we had, you you know like whole grains and all that sort and you know milk and skim milk and grains so we were just eating the you know the the the you know fatty pig diet you know to like fatten up pigs in the 1930s that that's what we grew up on dang you know he was a he read dr.

Pritikin's book which was all about just eating

basically no meat but certainly no fat and how important that was and and so that's that's how we grew up and my little brother really wasn't a fan of meat he mostly ate uh white rice with tempura sauce that was all you could get him to eat as a kid.

And he's 5'10.

I'm 6'3 ⁇ .

My brother is 6'4.

And,

you know, when I was 18, I was,

I wrestled that 215-pound weight class.

My little brother was 148-weight class.

Holy crap.

Yeah, big difference.

Huge.

Yeah.

And I always loved meat.

I always want to eat a lot of meat.

I also didn't have braces.

Neither did my brother or my sister.

My older, one of my sisters who decided she wanted to go vegetarian as a teenager and my younger brother who basically just didn't eat enough and just ate a bunch of rice, they're the only two people in my family that needed braces.

Wow.

And now we know in the dentistry journals that

crooked teeth are not genetic.

It is developmental and mostly nutritional.

And also if you're chewing on soft foods, you're not stimulating your hard palate and your jaw to grow properly.

So you need to be chewing on.

you know, not sticks like a gorilla, but something firm enough to trigger that growth response, which is meat.

Rice.

Yeah, and get the fat-soluble nutrients that you need, which are really important.

Absolutely.

Dr.

Anthony, it's been a blast.

Where can people find you, your work, and what you got coming up next, man?

Yeah, so yeah, well, thank you very much for having me.

It's a pleasure.

And

I have a YouTube channel and an Instagram is just my name, Anthony ChafeeMD.

You can find a lot more on this subject.

I have a podcast called The Plant-Free MD, and that's available on any podcast platform.

I'll be speaking at

multiple, I speak at

medical conferences and different

things.

The next one will be in Wyoming.

I'll be speaking in Spain and in England.

And

I announce a lot of these things on social media and Instagram.

So if people want to come see me talk, they can do that.

Perfect.

Link below.

Thanks for coming on.

Awesome.

That was awesome.

Appreciate it.

Thanks for watching, guys.

See you next time.