The Ugly Truth About Megachurches: Why They're Failing | Ryan Miller DSH #819

If you took churches out of the world right now, the world would break.

Poverty would just skyrocket.

Really?

Again, I don't mean to speak ill of it, but right now, I think we have a generation of people where the currency is authenticity, especially Gen Alpha coming up.

They want the authentic fog machines and the light show of the megachurches where you've got this guy on stage that comes out looking like, you know, this rock star.

I think they're over that.

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All right, guys, we got Ryan Miller, aka Dude with Good News, and it's one of his first podcasts.

So I'm on you.

Thanks for coming on, man.

Yeah, of course.

It's an honor.

Thank you so much.

And we were just talking how you you were turning most of these down.

Was there a specific reason?

Yeah, you know, I turned a lot of stuff down.

There was a, I think for the majority of my lives, I've really wanted fame.

If there was something that pulled at my heart, it wasn't money.

It was to be known.

It was to be seen.

It was to do something noteworthy.

And I think a lot of that probably came from my childhood.

It sounds like, you know, you and I were just chatting before.

We were rolling here that.

That's a bit of your story as well.

I'd love to hear more about that from you too.

Yeah.

But yeah, I grew up in a very hyper-successful family.

Everyone has a PhD in my generation of like 18 brothers and cousins except for me.

I'm talking, you know, Mayo Clinic, brain surgeon.

My brother just got named top 40 neuroscience, or top 40 scientist under 40 in the world.

He's a neuroscientist.

My other brother, Stanford, Dartmouth, Michigan, now a professor at London School of Economics.

So just hyper, hyper-successful.

And so I think from a young age, wondering, I think the question that was on my mind, or maybe the two questions was what am I worth and what is a man I think really having to deal with a masculinity crisis and we can get into that in a little bit too my brother came out of the closet as gay when he was a sophomore in high school I was a freshman and this was back when it was like not cool to come out right and there was a significant amount of bullying mainly for him but also for me as well and so

you know my

My identity was really shaped early on in some really beautiful ways and there was also some weirdness as well in there.

I struggled with that too.

Identity issues,

scared to speak out on things.

Yeah.

Yeah, because I was an only child.

So very different background from you.

But divorced parents, struggled to be heard, bouncing friend groups, and struggling to find purpose for many years.

How old were you when they were divorced?

I was in fourth grade, so it was pretty early.

That's like, those are prominent years of development.

Right.

So I went from class clown, super extroverted, to just shut down completely.

Introverted, didn't talk for years would never raise my hand in school

struggled to make friends and it was now looking back on it that divorce played a big role in that I didn't know at the time say more about that just not I think not having a father figure is like kind of as a man it's it's tough dude so he dipped he dipped yeah he left the house and for a year he didn't even want to see me because the court case was so stressful for him that he just gave up the custody battle.

So I didn't have any contact with him for a year.

And as a kid, that like broke my heart at the time, you know?

Could you process that at what nine years old?

Yeah, I think I was nine or ten.

It was, it was tough for sure.

But like that abandonment, did you know what was happening?

No, not at the time.

Okay.

Yeah, and I definitely had to go later in life fix those abandonment issues.

How did you do that?

Just through, you know, therapy, talking with people,

experimented with some psychedelics.

Yeah, yeah.

Different modalities.

Interesting.

yeah have you um do you have a relationship with him now yes so well he just passed but we wow we made up and we were tighter than ever before so i'm glad i got that closure absolutely so that was major but um yeah yeah it was tough dude yeah that childhood stuff really

it it stays with you you know what i mean oh yeah and i i mean even some of the the research coming out on it now you know there's that book the body keeps the score i had to i had to put that book down so there's this book on trauma called the body keeps the score in it don't let allergies keep you up at night sambrosa night syrup is your more homeopathic solution for a restful night blending the sweetness of a honey base with seven organic herbs and a small dose of antihistamine sambrosa provides effective relief from allergy symptoms while calming your body for a peaceful night's rest it's over-the-counter gentle and made from the ingredients you trust wake up refresh with sambrosa night syrup visit sambrosa.com today and rest easy tonight

talks about how we store trauma in our bodies and i didn't think i had like trauma for my upbringing And I started reading this book, dude, and I had to stop reading it.

Wow.

Because I started getting triggered.

It was very strange.

And this was kind of after I thought I'd done the whole exploration, you know.

I did EMDR therapy.

I did, you know, different, you know, talk therapy, CBT type stuff.

And I read this book, and there's probably still some weirdness in there today that I haven't, you know, fully like combed through that, that wound and healed it.

But

yeah, and again, like coming from a background where I'm like, yeah, you know, good upper-middle-class family, successful family, not really feeling like there was a particular moment in my childhood where I was wounded in a significant way, and yet still feeling like, whoa, there's some stuff going on here.

That's interesting.

I definitely believe it's stored in the body.

I used to get this chest tightness and heart palpitations all the time for like almost every day when I was growing up.

And I haven't had it in years, so that's definitely a sign that I've healed that trauma.

Okay, so therapy.

You were experimenting with psychedelics.

Were there some relationships in your life too that were healing for you as well?

I think my current fiancé healed a lot

because you become so normalized just the way you're raised that you think it's normal.

And then you realize when you talk to other people, you're like, that's not normal at all.

You know what I mean?

When you say that's not normal, what do you specifically?

I was very isolated growing up.

So like my parents wouldn't come home until five or six.

So I was on my own a lot.

Had to grow up kind of quick, I feel like.

Didn't have guidance in many aspects of life.

And

yeah I guess it just wasn't normal in the sense of like having parental figures there with you so I had to grow up faster than most people yeah

and do you feel like that has informed I mean what you do now is I mean we're just talking you're doing seven episodes today yeah that's insane And I learned actually that's a trauma cope because I have to prove people wrong and like, you know, my parents, friends.

So yeah, me working super hard was actually like how I got out of some of that stuff too.

Wow.

Wow, Wow, wow.

Yeah.

So when I was first getting into entrepreneurship, that was like my main driving force.

Yeah.

Prove people wrong.

Yeah.

You know,

make money because I got bullied growing up.

So that definitely fueled me.

So in a way, it was, it was kind of good, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think I can relate to that in many senses.

I think my greatest fear is being seen as powerless and being seen as a failure and incompetent.

You know, even there was there was a good amount of when I you know I was talking about the masculinity stuff There was a good amount of sexual bullying growing up.

Wow.

Where it was, you know, I didn't hit puberty till I was 17 years old.

Damn, that's late.

Very, very late.

And so even just like making fun of body parts and stuff like that, and I couldn't talk about it for the longest time.

And I remember I finally shared that with a friend that I had been bullied in that way, and he responded with such grace.

It was like that broke something in me where I was like, wow, I'm actually safe to share some of these things where I wasn't before.

So was that similar to you?

Like now you're so, it seems like you've got the whole thing mapped now.

I'm still figuring it out.

I think it's a never-ending process, but yeah, I'm definitely more at peace with how things played out.

Um, yeah, I thought I hit puberty late.

17 is really late because that's when your voice starts changing, right?

So, like, you would get bullied for having the highest.

Oh, yeah, no hair on the legs, like the whole, yeah, yeah, yeah, guys are ruthless, man.

School is such an easy setting to just get bullied because you're constantly comparing.

And now, with social media, it's even worse.

Yeah, kids are getting bullied 24-7.

So, I feel for these kids, man.

You see the mental health issues right now.

It's cyberbullying is definitely a big part of that huge huge man and I think there's a the currency at which young people are what they're chasing these days has shifted completely they just did a study where they asked 10 year olds what they want to be when they grow up eight out of ten ten year olds said they want to be an influencer wow which is really scary that's scary because that's not sustainable it's not sustainable and it shows that there's been a shift in the mindset that young people are being mentored or discipled or however you want to say it into believing that there's a certain amount of value when you achieve something.

You know, I think for maybe our parents' generation, it was like money, you know, like status money.

Now it's like being known by people, but they're exchanging true authentic relationship and truly being known for, you know, and I've struggled with this as an influencer.

It's like you see the likes, you see the comments, you see the views, and it's a dopamine hit.

Oh, yeah.

And it's a fabricated sense of intimacy.

And to be able to overcome that, it takes someone who has really processed through a lot of stuff.

Absolutely.

It's scary.

No, it is.

And we started the show saying that you wanted this.

You wanted the fame, right?

You were chasing this.

Yeah.

And that was because of a trauma issue?

Well, I think so.

Yeah, I think,

yeah.

So, and mine's a little weird because mine's got like faith attached to it.

So I...

I grew up, no one in my family was really religious.

In fact, they hated religion.

A lot of my extended family, my parents were Christians, but everyone in my extended family hated religion because

there was some cult weirdness, I think, in the previous generation.

And so they were like, they totally rejected that.

And so I found a relationship with Jesus very early on.

And I think it was because of maybe some of the family dynamics of

just this performative culture.

that was established.

And again, I don't think it was by any fault of my parents.

I think my parents were actually phenomenal parents.

It was maybe just more was caught than taught, you know, more was just kind of like picked up on.

And so I think going into high school and feeling like a failure, feeling like a nerd, feeling, you know, I was five foot two,

a buck 15,

and like somehow still fat, like just like chubby, you know, just like pre-pubescent, like chubby.

And always wanted to be a major league baseball player, but I kept getting cut from the team every single year because I was just small, you know?

And

I made the team my senior year, started.

I'm sorry, didn't start.

I sat the bench, walked on in a Division III school, and just grew like crazy and just like blew up.

All conference, all region, freshman of the year, now getting scouted by the Cubs and going off to these, you know, elite college baseball leagues in the summer where I'm playing against top D1 talent as a D3 kid, you know, playing against guys like Patrick Wisdom and Aaron Judge.

And like,

and then all of a sudden, girls started liking me, and I got good at school all of a sudden, and things, the pendulum really shifted and

I realized a lot was lost though a lot of depth of relationship was lost a lot of intimacy with with God was lost back when I had nothing in high school I had this deep faith like I was always trying to help people talk about Jesus all this stuff and then I get into college start having the success I was even at a Christian school and and all of a sudden I think just a lot of the the cares of the world, a lot of the stuff that was competing for my attention came in.

And then I started to be like, oh, oh, I can actually make it now.

Now, like you're saying, I could be that guy.

I could be that Michael Jordan who just like didn't make it and now proved everyone wrong and started just striving.

So I'd say I just started striving.

You know, the Bible is this book written by the richest person ever lived and the wisest person ever lived.

It says he's both, Solomon.

And he gets to the end of this book.

After this wild pursuit of happiness mission, he says it's all vanity.

It's all grasping after the wind.

You're never actually catching what you're looking for.

And he says the only thing that's valuable in this life is to love God deeply and to walk with him daily, to fear God.

That's it.

And I kind of had to go through that tour.

That tour led me into even performing in church, dude.

Like, like, wanting to be the guy on the stage and wanting to like have the big ministry.

And you see, mega church pastors are falling like crazy right now.

They are.

It's like, dude, every single week you've got another moral failure.

And we can get into that in a minute because I've got some thoughts on why that is.

And then, you know, I eventually left ministry and started filmmaking.

And I created this documentary series that was really in honor of my buddy who had passed away and was this wild kid.

I was also kind of this wild kid growing up, like pushing boundaries.

And I had this coach who would tell me, he said, Ryan, I'd rather tame a Mustang than inspire a mule.

Like he actually saw like that the wildness was good.

And so I would just, like, even in my ministry, I'd go reach the bad kids.

Like, I had like a little Bible study with like the gay goth group on campus.

Oh, yeah, dude, I loved it because that's who I I see Jesus going after.

And I'm like, these people are not going to step foot in church ever.

So I'd go on campus.

I'd bring a bunch of Starbucks and I'd just go find the outcasts because that's what I read in the Bible.

And because their hearts are right, right?

They're looking for something deeper that's going to satisfy them.

They're looking for someone that's truly going to see through all the facade, through all the medication, through all whatever it is, and is going to see them for who they truly are.

And that's what I see written all through the gospels.

Everything Jesus does is he goes after the outcast.

And so that's what I wanted to do.

And so when this coach would tell me this, you know, that quote, I'd rather tame a Mustang than inspire a mule.

It was like, man, I feel seen for the first time.

Wow.

And so I'm like, you know what?

Screw this, dude.

Like, I'm not really sensing God in this church right now.

Like, I'm not really experiencing like the fire of like the move of the Holy Spirit like I was seeing back in high school when I was just this little, you know, five foot two, buck 15 kid with a fro, you know, like

his little backpack walking around, like just enjoying life when I had nothing.

And so I said, I want to make a movie.

And I want to take four boys out of gangs, prison, foster care, addiction, the wildest of the wildest boys.

These Mustangs, right?

And I want to pair them with literal wild Mustangs to tame and train to do equine-assisted psychotherapy.

Wow.

And I want to film it.

And so I just like started, I quit.

my job at the church.

I started taking film classes, started like trying to understand three-act structures, trying to understand characters.

And I just went for it.

I started emailing thousands of directors and producers, just like every day, like dog with a bone.

Like, I'm gonna do this.

And no one replied to me for like six months.

And then finally, an Emmy award-winning director responds to me and says, I'll give you five minutes on FaceTime.

So I pitch him in this five minutes, you know, four wild boys, four wild Mustangs, 40 days, film it, show the value and the virtue that's underneath the wildness of both of these

images of

pure

but wild, untapped potential and he's like I'm in so then an Oscar award-winning producer comes on now Emmy or the Emmy winning director connects us with her who then connects us to the marketing distribution company that did froze into hunger games and now we're able to go raise a few million bucks and make this thing happen a million dollars of it came from my wife's grandpa wife who like was so like gung-ho about what I was doing he was just like yep I think like whatever Ryan's doing I'm I'm in for it and like like this deep belief in me.

And

so we go out and we go and cast these boys.

And I'm talking like

different gangs represented.

How'd you even find them?

Well, we did, first we tried to go through like inner city Christian ministries.

And I'm like, dude, these kids are not going to be found in this inner city ministry.

So then I started reaching out to some of

the kids that I was kind of mentoring, like these wild kids.

And the question I would ask him is I would just say, who's the wildest kid you know that's, or who's the best leader you know that's just currently misguided that's just wild right now that's leading for for bad and not for good and so I started getting on FaceTime calls with all of them and then I would ask them the same question who who's like the wildest most misguided person that's untapped leadership potential and dude I just started getting on the phone with 17 to 21 year old kids all around the country and hearing their stories wow and like really uncovering it's all trauma it's all wounds it's all broken families it's it's kids who didn't have the same opportunities that I had growing up.

And so we cast four boys.

I mean, shoot, one right out of prison.

We actually went, that's a whole other story.

I don't know how much time you got, but

we went to his court date in Alabama and fought for him in front of the judge.

And the DA was so moved that she burst into tears and dropped all charges.

Whoa.

So crazy stuff like that started happening.

And he went right from a prison cell to the ranch in Colorado.

So anyway, we filmed this show.

I was the mentor for the boys.

It was horrible.

I started having my first panic attacks, getting cussed out every day, punched in the face a couple times.

These kids were just crazy, right?

We're talking like attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon, like different gangs, like I said, living under the same roof.

And then we took this thing out to Hollywood and

started getting some million-dollar offers from big studios.

And within a week's time,

we were being reped by a major Hollywood agency.

And within a week's time, my wife has a vision, which we had never really heard from God in this way before.

Like,

I would have said I was like kind of like a cessationist, which means that I don't think like the Holy Spirit gifts, like, you know, the kind of the crazy people you see on TV and social media, like speaking in tongues, like, well, I like going all crazy and stuff.

Like, I was like, very like, nope, like, that's all weird.

I don't think God still heals people.

I don't think he still does this stuff.

And then it was wild, dude.

Within like a few months,

my wife gets a vision of chasing wild was the name of the movie or turned into a series in a tomb

and I'm like frick that's not good

and then the next week I wake up and this is how God has kind of continued to speak to me is I get a picture right before I wake up or he'll speak to me in a different language right before I wake up and I'll have to like translate it

I got a picture of Chasing Wild in a coffin.

And I just wanted to ignore it because it was such an idol in my heart at this time.

Again, I thought I was going to be famous.

That was my goal.

I thought I was going to be like Christian famous, though.

Because this show is got some Christian stuff in it, but it's also really raw.

Like, kids are dropping acid, and there's more cussing than pulp fiction.

And I'm like, yes, this is an honest story.

Christians are the worst filmmakers because they don't tell honest stories.

This is like what I want to do.

And

we're on the phone with our agents that day.

the producer who had actually just become a Christian, she goes, hey, can I offline with Ryan?

And

I'm like, that's weird.

So we hop on a separate phone call and she goes, hey, I've been meaning to tell you this, but I feel like God just told me that Chasing Wild needs to die.

And I didn't tell her that what my wife had gotten or what I had gotten.

Because it was, again, it was such an idol.

I didn't want to believe it.

So I kind of got snippy with her.

I'm like, you tell me what that means.

I'm like, I still have an outstanding loan for a quarter of a million bucks.

Like, great.

Okay, it's dead.

Like, sweet.

Now, what do we do?

And she's like, no, this thing needs to die in your heart.

This has become an idol in your heart.

And God's not going to bless something that's an idol.

And that day,

the tax incentive from the state of Alabama, where we did post-production, came back $252,000.

What?

And we were able to kill it.

And

so then what started happening was I went from that story.

where, you know, like college buddies and friends were like, are you hearing what Ryan's doing?

To like, did you hear what happened to Ryan?

I became the story of of failure and I get on the phone with my my wife's grandpa who again bankrolled a third of the budget like

and I have to tell him like what what's going on

and I'll never forget what he said he said Ryan you're feeding dog food to dogs that don't like the taste of your dog food you've taken a million dollars of this family's money and done nothing with it I'm not giving you another dime and I put the phone on mute and I started crying because it was like I wanted to impress him more than anyone in the world.

And something in me broke in that conversation.

Where all of the chasing of the acclaim and the fame and the notoriety and all the things that I'd been going after for so many years, it was like, now I'm the story of epic failure, and now it's attached to like family and money, and like the whole thing's weird.

And now, what am I going to do with my life?

And we ended up pulling the thing from Hollywood because we had to be obedient, right?

Like, what are you going to not do that after you hear so clearly from God to do something?

And

yeah, then I started another mental health nonprofit after that, and that failed and wasted a bunch of money.

And it was the most beautiful three years of my life because I started hearing from God in a way that I'd never heard before.

Where I had done the religious song and dance, like I had gone to the Christian college, and I had even gone to seminary at this time.

And even in seminary, I would have told you that, like, oh, yeah, God probably still speaks to people sometimes, and he probably still does some miracles sometimes, but like didn't really believe it.

And then I started seeing it.

And it was like the Lord had to bring me very, very low.

He had to bring me very

into

a spot of the word he kept telling me was meekness.

And that's a word that's been lost.

Like you just think of like meek as a mouse, right?

Like you're kind of like a pussy.

And that's not the definition of the word.

So he kept, as I would pray, like, again, having like panic attacks now, like, what is my identity?

Like, who am I?

Like, where's my value?

What's my worth in now?

I'm a failure.

And he kept whispering that word meekness.

meekness and so finally I'm like frick dude I'll just look up meekness and started looking all the Bible verses on it and I about fell off my chair when I looked up the Greek lexicon like the you know the Bible was originally written in Hebrew and Greek yeah and so when Jesus is saying the meek will inherit the earth that word for meek is prouus which means to tame a wild mustang whoa

and so I started diving into this and I just gone through the previous six months learning how you tame wild mustangs And

like I said, I scream at my wife.

I'm like, get down here.

And I show her this like breakdown of what it means.

And I thought initially, God's, now he's going to have me write a best-selling book about meekness.

And the whole thing is going to blow up.

And again, it was just in my limited thinking.

He had to do it in me first.

And so he had to unravel my entire operating system.

And right now, going back to kind of what we're talking about, like we have an entire generation that is seeking acclaim.

And they're living in an operating system, and they're wasting their lives trying to pursue selfish ambition.

And

man, meekness, when you look at the definition and we look at how you actually tame a wild Mustang, you're taking this prey animal that's been hustling his whole life trying to find provision, trying to protect and provide.

And you put them in the cage with a predator.

We're predators.

We have eyes on the front of our head looking to attack prey.

They have eyes on the side of their head scanning for predators.

And the question becomes, how do you get this thing that thinks you're going to kill it to trust you?

And

that's the whole Bible.

It's the story of a God who loved us so much that he pursued us and gave us freedom, and yet we chose to rebel, and yet he still pursues us.

Like there's this verse in Romans 2, or chapter 2, verse 4, it says, it's God's kindness that leads us to change our lives.

It's not his judgment.

It's not his anger.

And the first step in getting a wild musting to change is you have to show your goodness, that you're for it, that you're trustworthy.

And it'll start following you eventually around this round pen once it sees that.

And then you can eventually touch it.

And so that's been my journey is learning a completely new operating system, shedding that old desire to be seen and known and loved.

And of course it's still there, but like thinking like, how do I become a servant?

How do I love whoever's right in front of me?

And so that's kind of been my process and it's been the most life-giving process.

And

I genuinely do not care what you think about me in the most beautiful way now because I've done the tour.

I've done the Hollywood tour.

I've done the social media tour now.

I've done the likes, the comments, all the stuff.

It's just vanity.

It's just grasping after the wind.

And so that's kind of where I'm at now is just, I think that we have a generation that's lost.

Absolutely.

And it's scaring me.

And so, yeah, yeah.

Dude, what a journey.

Thanks for sharing that.

That's so deep.

And you got really vulnerable there.

I appreciate that.

Yeah, well, it's, dude, the journey's continued.

I mean,

you had mentioned earlier wanting to talk about some of the dark side of things as well.

And I'm down.

I think it's important because a lot of people with a following are kind of ashamed or scared to talk about the dark side of things sometimes.

Totally, yeah.

Were you able to repair with your girlfriend's grandfather?

Repair that relationship?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Yeah,

he's an amazing man of God.

And I just shared honestly with him.

I said, hey, you said I wasted...

family's money that wasn't your money.

Like the minute you gave it, it became God's money.

And I'm doing my best to steward this project now.

And now, God, I mean, we just moved to Dallas now.

We're in Dallas here currently from San Diego

to do some film stuff now.

And so I think there are some plans in store for this project.

I just don't think it's going to work in the Hollywood system.

It's all a pyramid, man.

It's all like learning that system.

It's all gross and weird, as I'm sure you learned as well.

A lot of programming.

I can't even watch modern movies anymore.

Dude, yeah.

It's like disgusting how much subconscious programming programming is in those.

Absolutely, because it moves the needle.

It changes culture.

It's rewiring brains.

It's rewiring morality.

Yeah, there's a lot of dark messages there, man.

And these companies are just funding it.

Music, all of it.

Music, too.

Yeah, that's a big one.

So you're going independent now?

Yeah.

Yeah, we're building a studio out here.

Nice.

I think Wahlberg's even doing that in Vegas now.

You're seeing a shift in people leaving Hollywood in LA and starting independent studios.

Awesome.

That's exciting.

Yeah, man.

So you mentioned the megachurch stuff earlier.

I want to go back to that because you worked in a big church, right?

It wasn't a huge church, but I worked in a church.

But you got to see the inside a little bit.

So why do you think these megachurch pastors are failing right now?

I think the whole structure of the church is broken.

I don't think when I look at modern Western churches, I see what I find in the Bible.

And from a structure standpoint, like I'm, I love the church.

I never want to bash the bride of Christ.

I don't want to talk ill of that, but I will kind of point out if she's got egg on her face, and I think she's got some egg on her face.

And I think the reason why is in a capitalistic, individualistic culture that's been created from the last, you know, 100 years with the Industrial Revolution, you know, churning out in this factory type system, we have begun to worship numbers.

And I'm sure you have this to a certain degree, as I do as well.

Like the numbers matter.

They mean something.

They're important, but they can also become

what you like glom onto and what you drive your identity from.

And I see that in churches where if I look at the structure of what the church is supposed to look like in the book of Acts, there's a few things it says.

It says, they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching.

That's plural.

Not a lead pastor.

And the breaking of bread and the prayers.

So they had meals together and they prayed together.

And then it said they went out and they took care of the poor, which, I mean, honestly, if you took churches out of the world right now, the world, it would break.

Poverty would just skyrocket.

Really?

Oh, my gosh, yeah.

Yeah, you look at the sheer numbers of the Western church, what it gives, and I don't think it's nearly enough, right?

We can talk about some of the money stuff in there as well, but the world would collapse.

I don't think people realize that.

It would fully collapse.

Like whole nations would collapse if you pulled the church out,

just financially speaking.

I'm not even talking about like a move of God or holy.

I'm not getting, you know, spiritual about it at all.

I'm just looking at the numbers.

So I don't, again, I don't mean to speak ill of it, but right now, I think we have a generation of people where the currency is authenticity, where Gen Z and especially Gen Alpha coming up, they want the authentic and they're coming back to like this orthodox, deep faith where the fog machines and the light show of the megachurches, where you've got this guy on stage that comes out looking like, you know, this rock star.

He's like,

you know, it's kind of like this whole pump up.

It's a full production these days.

Full production, dude.

I think they're over that.

I think people are over it.

They're done because the currency is now authenticity.

It's gone from entertain me to like, tell me some, tell me why I feel the way I feel inside.

Like, I think the darkness and the light are showing themselves really clearly in recent days.

And I think there's a lot of reasons why, because I think there's a lot of stuff that's about to go down.

But it's not even hiding anymore.

Like the evil isn't even hiding anymore.

And I think in many ways, the church has an opportunity to step in and to create authentic community where people are lacking connection in a way where they're more connected than they've ever been socially, digitally, but they're more lonely than they've ever been.

oh yeah so I did a um I spoke at a church conference and then at a I'm not gonna name the the conference or the organization it's a massive Christian organization I spoke to their staff

this was

nine months ago or so and I got on stage and I instead of giving like a you know a traditional sermon I did a poll I put a live poll and I just asked question how many of you guys are struggling with pornography how many of you guys are anonymous right okay how many of you guys have been suicidal in the last year 22 of pastors have been suicidal in the last year whoa that's really high 22

and again it goes back to this system and this structure where it's like more more more more more more more bigger bigger bigger bigger bigger and when i look at jesus's method or method and and and his message especially in his most famous sermon the sermon on the mount he goes blessed are the poor in spirit for they will

seek or blessed are yeah poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of heaven blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth.

Blessed are people when people revile you and hate you and utter all kinds of falsehoods against you.

Like, consider that joy.

And what he's saying is, like, my ministry is one that will look completely different than the operating system of the world.

And I think if churches got back to that and stopped trying to be bigger, grander, more lights, more butts in the seats,

And they actually looked at the scriptures and said, what does this look like?

It looks like authentic communities.

It looks like more like a house church model, if I'm being honest.

Like eight people getting together, sharing their burdens, taking care of one another.

You know, like I read through the scriptures.

I can't not see God's deep heart for the poor everywhere.

Deep care for the poor.

And yet we're building these cathedrals.

And so that's a beef I have, again, not with the people of God, but the structure of the houses of God, you could say.

Yeah.

I agree.

I always preferred Bible study over church because I used to go when I was younger.

And Bible study was way more intimate.

Got to be friends with people.

Then I'd show up to church.

There's 500 people.

You don't really feel like you have a spot there.

Yeah.

And now you go on YouTube.

You can get a message from the best in the world.

So I think that's why there's an exodus away from church as well.

Yeah, absolutely.

But yeah, I had an interesting journey.

So I grew up Christian.

Then I went atheist for like 10 years.

Oh, yeah.

And then this podcast started.

Started having on some Christians, some spiritual people.

Yeah.

And yeah, I refound God, I'd say.

No way, dude.

Tell me more about that.

Yeah, no, it was just going to church.

I didn't like it as a kid, you know, if we're being honest.

I just didn't feel like I was needed there.

Never got called on to do anything.

Just felt like a cog in a machine.

Yeah.

Similar to me in college, like 300 people in the classroom, didn't feel like there was a point.

So dropped out of that.

Yeah.

So just left it behind.

And

yeah, those 10 years, though, were dark.

Pretty lonely.

Pretty lost.

No sense of purpose.

And yeah, now I'd say definitely believe in something.

But I wouldn't say I'm Christian.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I would say I'm not religious either.

Oh, yeah?

Yeah.

No, I think religion destroys things.

Wow.

I think religion is a poison.

I think Jesus came to abolish religion.

Damn, that's deep.

So you wouldn't label yourself as Christian right now?

Maybe.

I mean, it depends on the circle I'm in.

Yeah.

Because there's nuance to it, you know?

I don't think Jesus was Christian.

And in fact, when I read the Bible, when I see what Jesus did, in many ways,

if he was putting anyone on blast, it was the religious leaders.

So actually, I got this

first tattooed on my wrist.

What is that?

It's this word prostekemai.

And

it's this story in the Bible that a lot of people know, like the story of the prodigal son.

And what set up that story, I think, is equally important to the story of the prodigal son,

the son who like leaves his father and goes basically to Vegas and squanders it on prostitutes and all this stuff.

Like takes half of what his his dad has and goes to this distant land and parties it away but what set up this story was this line by Jesus where

it says the Pharisees and the scribes grumbled so they're they're talking crap this man welcomes sinners and eats with them because Jesus was hanging out with prostitutes and tax collectors who were like robbing the Jewish people so everyone hated the tax collectors and the prostitutes were dirty and Jesus pursues those people and he starts eating with them, which like would have like the crowd listening to this story would have audibly gasped because that would have made Jesus ceremonially unclean under Jewish custom.

So Jesus is making himself unclean as this Jewish rabbi.

He's hanging out with the scum of the earth, and Jesus perceives their hearts, these religious leaders, the elite of the elite.

These were the social elites.

And

he perceives their hearts, and he goes,

I'll show you just how far I welcome sinners.

And the word they use wasn't just like, hey, nice to meet you, Sean.

Like, hey, good to meet you.

That's like our word for welcome.

There's two tenses in the Greek.

The first one is Dekamai.

That's the, hey, how are you?

The word they use was prostekamai, which is this like deep, intimate welcome.

Like when a soldier gets off the airplane and the wife and kids come and wrap up their daddy, who's home, and tears streaming down their eyes, and they're so glad he's home.

They're welcoming everything that he is back into their relationship.

And that's the word they use in their Smack Talk.

This holy man intimately welcomes the scum of the earth.

And Jesus goes on to tell them a story of a lost coin.

This widow who lost her coin, one of her 10 coins, goes crazy flipping couch cushions, trying to find this coin.

Once she finds the coin, she throws a party.

And there was a shepherd who lost one sheep out of 100 sheep, forsakes the 99 sheep in the open country to find the one lost sheep.

And you can see the Pharisees, the religious people are like, what the frick is this guy talking about?

And he goes, okay, you guys still aren't getting it.

There was a man who had a bunch of money, had a bunch of stuff.

He had two sons.

One of the sons went to his dad and said, screw you, dad, I want your money.

I don't want you.

Give me my inheritance now.

The dad gives him his inheritance and he goes and squanders in a distant land.

And it says when he came to his senses, finding himself in a pig stye after totally screwing over half of his dad's net worth, like his entire inheritance, he just screws over.

It says he finds himself in a pig stye and starts rehearsing this speech that he's going to tell his dad.

Father, I've sinned against heaven, against you.

I'm not even worthy to be called your son.

Just make me a slave in your house because he was just hungry.

He longed to eat the food that the pigs had.

So he goes back home and he's thinking his dad's just going to like suplex him, right?

Like take him out.

And his dad,

Jesus is telling the story to religious people and to the sinner.

So you have both groups listening to the story.

And he said, the father, seeing him a long way off, ran, which again, the audience would have gasped because in Jewish culture, men don't run.

You don't bare your legs.

It was like a no-no.

That was shameful to do that as a Jewish man for whatever reason.

And he runs after his son.

He embarrasses himself and he puts a ring on his finger, shoes on his feet, and a robe on him because only slaves were barefoot.

The ring had the family insignia, and robes signified royalty.

He restores his dignity.

And what Jesus is saying is, you religious people don't get it.

Like, I'm the great physician, and I haven't come for the healthy.

I've come for the sick.

I've come for the Mustangs.

I've come for the outcasts.

I've come for the ones that feel like they don't have a place.

And when I see the church today, that's what it should look like, a hospital for the broken, not a cathedral for the saints.

That is what we're called to do.

That's the whole message of the gospel.

The gospel means good news, which means the war has been won.

The war against what?

Your shame, your sin.

All the ways you feel inadequate.

And when Jesus said it is finished on the cross and died, it means your sin, your past, everything that you've done is finished.

Jesus was a historical character.

You can believe he was a liar, a lunatic, or he really was Lord.

Did he really rise from the dead after saying it is finished and appear to 600 people?

Are those eyewitnesses credible?

You can look at the historical data.

I studied all sorts of religions and I came to the conclusion that Jesus was who he said he was and then he showed up in my life.

Then I started encountering him in a real way, like an authentic way.

And he healed me of a pornography addiction.

Wow.

I was looking at porn every single day.

I was looking at porn as a pastor.

And I can sit here on the stage and tell you that because my shame's been paid.

and dealt with on the cross.

And so I no longer, I'm not a slave to that shame anymore, that sin.

I'm not a slave to my idols.

I can tell you that, like, I have looked at porn in the last year while I was married married with three children and I had to confess to my wife because she gets nightmares when I do it.

The cracks, the demonic activity is really bad whenever I mess up.

So she always knows.

She starts getting nightmares after I look at it.

And I'm not ashamed of it

because I have found not religion.

I've found a relationship with Jesus.

I know him and he knows me.

And I've encountered him in a real way.

And I see miracles and I hear his voice.

And it probably makes me sound like a loony tune.

I know this isn't isn't a religious show or a faith-filled show, but that's been my experience.

And so when I go and I give messages on social media,

I don't want to speak out of my own power, my own eloquence.

I ask the Lord, what do you want me to say?

I commune before I communicate.

I spend time with him.

And he tells me what to say.

And whenever I hear clearly on something that I'm like, that's not a good video.

It goes viral.

Because someone needs to hear it.

And the Lord blesses it.

Almost like you're channeling in a way, then.

I would say less than I'm channeling, I would say I'm opening up myself to hear clearly because he's always speaking.

And he speaks to hearts that are willing to hear.

I love that.

I didn't know you struggled with that addiction.

Thanks for opening up about that.

But a lot of guys, I'd be curious what percentage, it's got to be pretty high, struggle with that.

Oh, my gosh.

Yeah, I don't know many dudes that don't.

I have one friend that does four times a day, which is just crazy, but he's not good mentally right now, to be honest.

So there's definitely a link there with mental health health and porn addiction.

Oh, absolutely.

It's it's um I tried everything dude.

I

I told my buddies in college I was like if I look at porn this month, I will run a full marathon I'm like I just need something crazy to get me to stop looking at this stuff and I ended up running a full marathon

I was that addicted.

That's crazy.

And it wasn't until I started looking into my wounds.

I actually went

I was a I was a baseball coach.

So after I got done playing some low-level professional baseball, I coached coached college baseball and

this guy came and spoke to the team right and he's like hey we're doing this freedom from porn thing tonight and I'm like sign me up bro so I showed up to this it was called the conquer series I showed up to this group like a bunch of dudes who were like everyone's looking around like you two um that's hilarious and we're watching this video and the video was all about identifying your wounds and like literally stopping and praying and like asking God, would you reveal to me like what happened?

Like

why am I looking at this stuff?

What am I medicating?

What's the wound underneath the symptom?

And once I started doing that,

I stopped cold turkey for a number of years.

Wow.

And then

it's only flared up a couple times in probably the last 10 years,

but it's always when I'm triggered through woundedness.

And

I need to know my telltales.

I need to know that when I'm tired, I want to drink.

When I feel inadequate, I want to look at porn.

And a telltale is

a little metal cord that wraps around the big cords that dock ships to port, like big tankers and stuff, docks them to port.

And those big metal cords, if there was an imbalance in the ship, it would just snap.

It would kill people, it would slice them in half.

So they invented what's called telltales.

It was a little metal cord that wrapped around the big metal cord that if there was an imbalance, that would snap and go, bing!

So everyone would know to get off the ship.

Interesting.

And

pornography is a telltale for me.

that there's something deeper going on.

Wanting to drink is a telltale for me.

And

it's actually a gift in many ways.

Anxiety in many ways is a telltale.

It's a gift that there's an imbalance, that there's something going on that needs to be brought back into alignment.

I agree, because I don't have anxiety as much as I used to, thankfully, but when I do feel it creeping up, I'm like, okay, I need to take a step back and reflect on what's causing this because it's not just a random anxiety attack.

Something's causing it.

Totally.

Totally.

Yeah, I used to get panic attacks all the time.

I do.

I would collapse on the floor and I would just ignore it, honestly.

I wouldn't tell anyone.

I felt so ashamed as a guy.

and yeah, you can't sustain that long term.

Wow.

So where are you at now?

So you started this show, you're talking to a bunch of people.

Like in your faith, you said you were Christian for a little while.

Now you're kind of having these cool spiritual conversations.

Yeah, I would say, yeah, I definitely believe in a God,

but just I feel so at purpose with everything.

I don't have the most money I've ever had right now, but I do feel the most fulfilled and the most happy overall.

So I'm at a great point right now.

And I'm looking to have kids in the next few years.

So awesome that's the next journey yeah yeah

just being able to share messages like this it's so fulfilling all the comments and messages i get about inspiring people whether it's financially spiritually health it's just so incredible that's amazing yeah it's a great uh great profession man podcasting i love it yeah yeah

I'm trying to get into it, bro.

I need to take some notes from you guys.

I got you, man.

I'll help you out.

Well, Ryan, where can people keep up with you?

Hopefully watch the film one day and follow you.

Yeah, yeah.

So

my handle, I'm actually changing it to Ryan underscore Miller because people are like, you're the guy with good news.

It's dude with good news right now.

And then, yeah, I've got an online mental health platform called sharethestruggle.org.

So if you're struggling with anxiety or past traumas or anything like that, we have people that would be willing to meet with you.

And we've got, we're the largest video-based Christian mental health platform on the planet.

So we've got a bunch of courses, a bunch of training courses on suicidal ideation and stuff like that.

So yeah, those are the two main ways.

Guys, we'll link below.

Thanks so much for coming on, Ryan.

Yeah, thank you, man.

Appreciate it.

Thanks for watching, guys.

Check out the links below, and I'll see you next time.