The Ugly Truth About Biohacking: What Experts Won't Tell You | Scott Chaverri DSH #665

Speaker 1 A lot of the biohacking stuff, I would say skip that. You know, how's your diet? How's your movement? How's your sleep? Start with the low-cost, no-cost things.

Speaker 1 Once you kind of button those ins and built good habits around those, then yeah, I mean, some red light and some deliberate cold exposure and some sauna. Like these are all great things.

Speaker 1 You got to crawl before you can walk.

Speaker 1 All right, guys, we got Scott Chiberi here today, founder of Meeto Red Light. We're going to talk red light therapy and a bunch of other health stuff.
Thanks for coming on, man.

Speaker 1 Thanks for having me, man. Excited to be here.
Of course. I love that you brought that water bottle.
I've been looking into those. Hydrogen.
It's a new product.

Speaker 1 This isn't on market yet, but I'm excited about it because water and light go well together. So what's the theory between putting hydrogen and water? What does it do?

Speaker 1 So what this does is a membrane in the water bottle and it separates the hydrogen and oxygen. It's a hydrogen gas and oxygen gas.
So you run it for 10 minutes. I'm actually still having running.

Speaker 1 And then you really should drink it right away because the gas, the hydrogen gas dissipates, but it's a powerful antioxidant.

Speaker 1 The reason I actually brought it is jumping on a plane, you get exposed to a little bit more radiation up in the sky.

Speaker 1 And so I was just, I drink a little bit of it before I get on and then on the plane ride. Yeah, I see Brecca always flies with his.
Okay, he does the same thing. Gary Brecca, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, those are the same. I think he's got a similar bottle.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's pretty gnarly. They're doing studies on that, the plane, the flight attendants, and their health.
Yes,

Speaker 1 I haven't seen those studies, but I would imagine that they probably have some challenges just from the regular exposure.

Speaker 1 I used to get sick a lot, and I never realized it was, I used to travel a lot, so there was probably something there. Yeah, I mean the air quality too.
You're cooped up with a bunch of people.

Speaker 1 You're getting exposed to all sorts of things. I mean, it's,

Speaker 1 I don't like traveling for that reason. I also like, I grew up in New York and I was never a fan of the subway.
So hell no. But yeah, also the radiation on top of it.

Speaker 1 Like, I mean, we're, we're actually quite resilient.

Speaker 1 But, you know, the problem is with in modern society, we're exposed to so much that like it's just easy to fill the cup and have it overflow.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, even this room, we got bright lights, got the TVs behind us.

Speaker 1 I'm sure there's a magnetic field. you You had ben greenfield on talking about emf yeah i'm sure there's like an electric field coming off like bathing or head

Speaker 1 back a little bit in front of it i mean but we're

Speaker 1 if you want some water let me know yeah but that's where the red light comes in right that can help detox with this type of stuff sort of so um

Speaker 1 typically the detox is more infrared

Speaker 1 uh

Speaker 1 so there's actually so kind of for your listeners,

Speaker 1 essentially when we talk about red light therapy, we're talking about a very kind of narrow window of light.

Speaker 1 And typically the devices like ours are 600 nanometers red to around 900 nanometers near-infrared. And so sauna is, and that's near-infrared, and infrared radiation is broken up into near-mid and far.

Speaker 1 And typically the saunas are far-infrared, so it's a much longer wavelength. I think far-infrared goes up to 10,000 nanometers.

Speaker 1 And so those wavelengths penetrate deep into the body, but they get absorbed by water and create heat.

Speaker 1 And so that sweating that happens in a far-infrared sauna is kind of like how they say, detox. It's like passive sweating for detox.

Speaker 1 Whereas our lights really don't generate heat, and that's actually part of the benefit, actually.

Speaker 1 We're playing in the part of the spectrum where there's minimal thermal impact, minimal water absorption, so the light can penetrate deep into the body, act on the mitochondria, and kind of improve cellular energy production.

Speaker 1 It's kind of the quick...

Speaker 1 quick download on how it works.

Speaker 1 And so there could be a detox benefit to the extent that it improves cellular function.

Speaker 1 And if your cells are trying to detox or they want to detox and they're functioning better, but it's very different from infrared sona. Yeah.
And there's a lot of studies on this now.

Speaker 1 I feel like when you were probably first starting out, it was more like hypothetical. And now there's so much data.

Speaker 1 That's an interesting comment. So I wouldn't say it was hypothetical.
There were probably about 4,000 or 5,000 studies in 2019 when we started. There's a database,

Speaker 1 this

Speaker 1 incredible gift to humanity guy in Finland, I think, that keeps this database. And now there's almost 8,000 studies.
So even in the past five years, it's almost doubled. That's incredible.

Speaker 1 And they're mainly positive, right?

Speaker 1 They are. Well, that's the interesting thing about the spreadsheet.
So we linked to it on our site, and you can download it.

Speaker 1 And he even goes through the trouble of kind of color coding the results, you know, green being good, yellow being neutral, and red being unfavorable result of the study.

Speaker 1 And so you can get a quick feel for it, and it's mostly green. That's good.
So that's a good sign. But we're still learning a lot about what wavelengths should be used for specific applications.

Speaker 1 I mean, there's still a lot to learn. But our perspective is that modern humans are incredibly deficient in these beneficial wavelengths of light.
So it makes sense to supplement at a minimum.

Speaker 1 And is that because

Speaker 1 we're not outdoors as much as we used to be? Yes.

Speaker 1 So like the statistic that gets thrown around is we spend 93% of our time indoors. Wow.
So 85% buildings, 78% in.

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LinkedIn, the place to be. Motor vehicles of some kind.

Speaker 1 And, you know, our ancestors, like your great-grandmother was, or my great-grandmother, they were outside all day.

Speaker 1 You know, either they were hunter and gathering or they were, you know, working the land.

Speaker 1 They weren't indoors in office spaces or factories like we are now in the Industrial Revolution.

Speaker 1 And then it's even gotten worse in the name of energy efficiency where you know so we started moving indoors in the early 1900s but even in and then we had incandescent light bulbs uh and incandescent light bulbs are actually uh they function this blackbody radiation function similar to the sun so you do get some exposure to infrared red and infrared from incandescent light bulbs okay but now our our

Speaker 1 wise government overlords have made those essentially illegal. Yeah, they banned them.
And we are

Speaker 1 forced to use fluorescents and LEDs.

Speaker 1 And now we don't even get any infrared from those, and we don't really get any red from those. Wow.
I wonder why they banned that.

Speaker 1 Well, energy efficiency. So I actually think that LEDs are the answer.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 this is a little bit of a segue, but

Speaker 1 the modern LEDs that are used to make white light, they actually use blue LEDs.

Speaker 1 And so typically what you'll find is you'll have a blue LED and then a blue LED with the,

Speaker 1 like it's called a yellow phosphor. So it's just a yellow coating.
And so the blue light shines through the yellow coating and it creates green.

Speaker 1 And it creates, but it's a spectrum, so it peaks at green.

Speaker 1 So if you ever look at a spectral chart of like a typical white LED, it has a really sharp peak at blue because one of the LEDs is blue and then the neighboring LED is green, but it's a blue LED shining through a yellow.

Speaker 1 phosphor.

Speaker 1 And that

Speaker 1 you can create white light. Like we can, we perceive that as white light.

Speaker 1 Like it lights up enough of the red and orange cones, rods and cones in our eye, where we perceive it as white, but it's really essentially blue and green light

Speaker 1 and predominantly. So we're not even, and there's no infrared.
So we're predominantly, so we're not getting any red or infrared, which we know is very beneficial.

Speaker 1 But it's super energy efficient. So my.

Speaker 1 My perspective is that we can solve that problem by mindfully using LEDs to add in other parts of the spectrum that are more congruent with our biology.

Speaker 1 So you can do that by like supplementing with a really powerful light like we sell.

Speaker 1 Or really where the ambient lighting industry needs to go is just adding in a couple of, maybe add in some red, maybe add in even some infrared LEDs, which sounds at first pass, it sounds kind of ridiculous to add in infrared light or an invisible light because infrared is invisible into a visible light.

Speaker 1 But not when you think about like how it's impacting our biology and the fact that we're not, we would be getting this all day long from the sun. Right.

Speaker 1 So that's another thing on my to-do list in the next 40 years is to

Speaker 1 help solve that problem. And I think, and we have the technology to do it.
And again, so incandescents are

Speaker 1 very energy inefficient. LEDs are super energy efficient.
So the problem, but to solve the problem of modern LED lighting, we just need more LEDs, just at different parts of the spectrum. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So right now, are they emitting blue light? Yes, Like primarily blue and green. And blue light is

Speaker 1 not the best, right? From what I've read. So I think all spectrum of light are important.
Like that's, I always, same thing with like the diet. You know, like talk to one guy, fats are bad.

Speaker 1 Talk to another guy, carbs are bad. No, none of them are bad.
It's just, you know, it's context, right? And so blue light, it's context. At midday, you want blue light.

Speaker 1 It's telling your brain that it's noon. Okay.
Right.

Speaker 1 But you don't want blue light at 6 p.m. You know, that's you really want more red.
And then you just want to mimic nature, essentially.

Speaker 1 So sun sets, the sky turns orange and red, just because those longer wavelengths of light can make it through the atmosphere and scatter in the atmosphere. But there's no blue at that point.

Speaker 1 The shorter wavelengths get filtered out. And that's how your body knows that, okay, it's 6 p.m.

Speaker 1 And it's time to start winding down, time to start producing melatonin, get ready for bed in a couple of hours.

Speaker 1 And when we look at our phone or we look at a television set or a computer screen or have a bright white LED light on, which is really blue and green light,

Speaker 1 you're just messing that up. It's tough to sleep if you're on those devices in your bed.
It is. And it's actually how I first got

Speaker 1 started to learn about this whole industry. It was I had really terrible insomnia.

Speaker 1 And that was from the blue light mainly? It was.

Speaker 1 It's really crazy, man. Like I

Speaker 1 all my 20s, like I would just drink to try to fall asleep, alcohol, and then consume caffeine to get through the day i was on that seesaw yeah

Speaker 1 and i tried melatonin i tried uh like supplemental melatonin i tried you know passion flour sleepy time tea every pharmacological thing there is nyquil and drinking uh and none of it and none of it solved the problem and then when i put on a pair of uh essentially laser goggles which were red that filtered out the blue and green light.

Speaker 1 Yeah. That was it.
Wow. I need to try that.

Speaker 1 Just wear blue blocking glasses at night is a no-brainer. Okay.
Yeah, I have those, but I need to try those sleep goggles or whatever. Yeah, as long as it's,

Speaker 1 do you want to filter out the blue and the green? And as long as it's filtering that, but you should also dim the lights in your house. You know,

Speaker 1 our house gets very dark and red at night. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And even

Speaker 1 my television, we don't watch a whole lot of television, but when we do, it's very, the brightness is turned way down and the screen is red. We have this device which filters the blue out.

Speaker 1 Computer, same thing. I mean there's now night mode on the phones and stuff like so the companies are you know and and programs like f.lux and iris that filter stuff out.
I like flux. So do all of it.

Speaker 1 Do all of it and get and get get red lights like red or orange LEDs for your house and use those in the evening. Yeah, some people go extreme.
I know Ben Greenfield uses candles at night.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and again, like that's just

Speaker 1 hearkening back to not that long ago.

Speaker 1 Like, you know, and in like the human evolutionary timeline, 150 years ago is a blip, right? So 150 years and before, I mean, that's, we, all we had for light in the evening was fire. Wow.

Speaker 1 And moonlight. And so, uh, of course, uh, like, candles is a good way to go.
I mean, it's a kind of a fire risk, and, um, you know, you have to keep buying candles are terrible, too, for you.

Speaker 1 You got to buy certain brands. There you go.
That's another reason. So, like, they sent them, and you know, you've got,

Speaker 1 you know, putting pollutants into your air. It's not a mess.
So there's a lot we got to dodge and keep an eye on these days. There is.
It's really interesting.

Speaker 1 It's, it's an interesting time to be alive because there's so much, the world's changing so fast. There's so much information.

Speaker 1 But there's so many tools too, right? So and

Speaker 1 so it's just, you got to embrace it.

Speaker 1 But I do think having organizing principles is helpful. So one of my biggest organizing principles is, you know, what was life like 150 years ago and before?

Speaker 1 And how is modern life different?

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 how can we think about

Speaker 1 where where there might be booby traps you know i think of them as booby traps in terms in our modern environment yeah um and so food we eat uh

Speaker 1 uh how we move or don't move how we sleep or don't sleep the other just our environment in general like all those things are i think it's helpful to look at through that prism and then just if you have to make some modifications you can yeah because 150 years ago they didn't live as long but they didn't have access to all the information also

Speaker 1 that's true i mean you know we've had uh antibiotics and vaccines and a lot of things that have like extended

Speaker 1 lifespan. But now we have people living longer, but their health span is short.

Speaker 1 Quality of life is lower, right? Yeah. And I know you had Callie Means on, too, recently.

Speaker 1 That guy's a legit hero because he's really fighting the good fight of like trying to educate people about the problems with the food system.

Speaker 1 And, you know, we just have a lot of problems when just the food we eat is poison.

Speaker 1 And children, you know, we've got a childhood obesity problem and all this. And it's just another example of

Speaker 1 these,

Speaker 1 even if it was good intentions of extending shelf life and trying to be able to feed 8 billion people, we have to be mindful of the consequences of what we're doing.

Speaker 1 Yeah, 70% of American diet is processed foods.

Speaker 1 That's insane. That's insane.
Well, it's really interesting because I will tell you that 0% of my diet is processed foods.

Speaker 1 And that's why I really think it's important that we just get the word out.

Speaker 1 And that's why I say somebody like Callie's a legit hero because he's working to do that because change needs to come from the bottom up. Yeah.
Right?

Speaker 1 Like if I decide not to eat processed foods and you decide and everyone in this neighborhood does, then that statistic will change quickly. That's true.
Because the money will follow. Yeah.

Speaker 1 They won't be able to make them anymore if they're not selling them. Exactly.
Or they won't. I mean, and so we're seeing that.
We're seeing change. And

Speaker 1 I've eaten gluten-free for like 15 years. Wow.

Speaker 1 15 years ago, like there was like one gluten-free bread off and it tasted terrible. It was like a brick.
And now you go to the store and there's like eight and they're actually taste pretty good.

Speaker 1 And there's different ways of doing it, whether it's cassava or whatever.

Speaker 1 So, you know, I'm hopeful that things are slowly moving in the right direction. What other health things are you doing other than light?

Speaker 1 Oh, gosh.

Speaker 1 Are you biohacking a lot?

Speaker 1 I am. I am.
I'm 48. So I've

Speaker 1 I've been interested in this, oh my gosh, probably since I was 16 when I had really bad acne and I couldn't figure out why.

Speaker 1 And And then in my 20s when I had really bad insomnia.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 I think about kind of the pillars of health, diet, exercise, sleep, mindset, or stress management. Exercise, I don't even like to call exercise, I think about movement.

Speaker 1 Because exercise, I think people immediately think like running on a treadmill. It's not even about that.
It's just moving more to me.

Speaker 1 Like going out for a walk in the afternoon, such like a no-brainer thing, right? Like you get exposure, you get some fresh air, you get some sun, and you're getting a little bit of exercise.

Speaker 1 And not, you're breaking up the sitting that you're probably doing in front of the computer. So I do a lot of those little things.
I do deliberate cold exposure.

Speaker 1 We don't have Wi-Fi in our house.

Speaker 1 Probably a lot of things that Ben Greenfield does, although Ben Greenfield's, I mean, that guy's a beast and he's in

Speaker 1 incredible shape. I don't really exercise that much, actually,

Speaker 1 just because I don't recover the way I used to. And I'm just mindful of the fact that, hey, I'm 48.

Speaker 1 I can't do a MRF anymore.

Speaker 1 Maybe I can, but I don't don't want to be sore for four days.

Speaker 1 A MRF is a CrossFit workout I used to do. And I'm just mindful of where I'm at.

Speaker 1 And I try to tweak things. So I do a lot more walking than I used to.
10,000 steps a day. I don't count, but

Speaker 1 I just habit it. So every day at lunch, I go off for a walk.
I usually take my shirt off.

Speaker 1 And I happen to be fortunate enough to live in Scottsdale where the sun's out and I can get a little bit of vitamin D. That's cool.

Speaker 1 So no Wi-Fi in the house. So you're just using data?

Speaker 1 We use it's like power line, these things you can plug in.

Speaker 1 My house is built in the 80s, but you can use the existing power lines and you can plug into the outlet and run an Ethernet cable into this thing and it sends the signal through the existing wires in your home.

Speaker 1 And then you can plug an Ethernet cable out from another outlet into your laptop or PC. And so you don't need Wi-Fi.
Wow. I need to look into that because I heard the Wi-Fi rays are pretty damaging.

Speaker 1 Again, it depends.

Speaker 1 Again, I think we're pretty resilient. And so a lot of people will say, hey,

Speaker 1 it's woo-woo. It's not woo-woo.
We know that non-ionizing radiation has biological effects. I mean, that's true.
It's been proven.

Speaker 1 It's probably through like voltage-gated calcium ion channels, which basically means it opens up the cells and calcium floods in.

Speaker 1 But irrespective of that, again, my prism is 150 years ago and beyond, there was none of this stuff.

Speaker 1 And so maybe

Speaker 1 if I can avoid it, why not avoid it? Especially when sleeping, right? Like, why does it even need to be on when you're sleeping?

Speaker 1 At a minimum, just buy a $15 timer and have it turn off at midnight or when you know you're not going to be using it. And just like let your body sleep

Speaker 1 unperturbed by your Wi-Fi router. I try to wake up naturally too.
Alarms just aren't for me. I haven't used an alarm in probably also about 15 years.
Wow. It's really strange.

Speaker 1 I mean, I hated alarm clocks, man.

Speaker 1 I've been such a terrible, like, who wants to wake up to that? For real. Right.
And also, like, if you need an alarm clock to wake up, I think that

Speaker 1 you're not getting enough sleep. Yeah.
No, I have PTSD from high school from 6 a.m. alarms.
Yeah. And so,

Speaker 1 me too.

Speaker 1 So I haven't used an alarm clock in a really long time, but part of it's going to bed at 10 or 10.30.

Speaker 1 Do you track your sleep scores and stuff? I do not. You know, I actually, I've tried Orang and Whoop.
Yeah. And

Speaker 1 I just, again, like I think about like this, and I have a lot of respect for those companies, so I don't want to say anything negative about it. And I do think there's a place for them.
But

Speaker 1 like in quantum mechanics, there's this idea of like you want the act of measuring something, you're influencing it. Right.
And when I used to wear my aura ring, I used to play with it.

Speaker 1 I never got comfortable. And I'm like, I'm wearing this to track my sleep and it's messing up my sleep.

Speaker 1 And like the whoop, I don't know like if that's,

Speaker 1 I think they probably now they make them where you can disable the Bluetooth, but you know, I don't want to be exposed to that stuff. So I'm like, is it admitting anything?

Speaker 1 I have can you disable it when it's on so it's not transmitting the whole time? Would be my question.

Speaker 1 Because do you really want something transmitting Bluetooth while it's on your wrist while you're trying to sleep? Probably. Would be my question.

Speaker 1 So I don't personally use those. But I also, I tried them and my experience with them was, hey,

Speaker 1 oh, I didn't sleep well. Yeah, I know I didn't sleep well because I know I feel like crap today.
You know, like, and so like, it was just reaffirming what I already knew.

Speaker 1 And so I didn't get a whole lot of value from it. But, you know, HRV scores, I think, can be a good thing to track.

Speaker 1 And I do think gathering data in aggregate is a good idea because, you know, this whole biohacking industry is pretty wild west.

Speaker 1 And we need, we need better data to really understand, like, and also how do you combine these things. So, you know, like, I do deliberate cold exposure, for example.

Speaker 1 Should I be doing it before, after I do red light, before I do red light? You know, like, should I be doing them on separate days? No, nobody can really answer those questions. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And so we need to be gathering data to begin to start to answer those questions. Absolutely.
When you're going on those shirtless lunch walks, are you wearing sunscreen? No.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 Again, vitamin D is super important.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 my son is a cancer survivor, and I remember

Speaker 1 going to a cancer conference in 2017.

Speaker 1 And I remember the talk, the person speaking from Sloan Kettering saying that

Speaker 1 85% or 80 to 85% of pediatric cancer patients, when they're diagnosed, are vitamin D deficient.

Speaker 1 Now, is that because cancer somehow depletes your vitamin D, or is it because low vitamin D is somehow causal in the cancering process? I don't know exactly.

Speaker 1 If I had a guess, I'd say probably a little both. But I've been mindful of vitamin D even before that, frankly.

Speaker 1 But we know it's super important for immune health and it modulates something like 2,000 genes so

Speaker 1 I don't wear sunscreen period if I want to protect myself from the sun I'll wear a hat

Speaker 1 or and if I know I'm going to be out let's say I'm going to go to a festival and I'm going to be out in the sun for four or five hours I'll wear a hat and I might wear sunglasses if I know it's going to be a long a long time.

Speaker 1 But if I just my 10, 15 minute walk, shut off, no sunscreen, I mean, I want those rays. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I just think it's ironic how they made it to defend yourself from sun and now some of them are being proven to cause cancer. It's unfortunate.

Speaker 1 And I really, you know, part of how I moved to Phoenix in 2013 because I wanted more sun. I lived in Rochester, New York, and it's gray all year round and the windows suck.

Speaker 1 And my wife was like, we got to get out of here. So I took a job and moved to Phoenix because of the sun.
I was moving to the sun. And

Speaker 1 it's really unfortunate.

Speaker 1 Like, we just take things too far and we don't really have context when we have these types of conversations like okay like excessive UVA exposure burning the skin repeatedly increases melanoma risk got it

Speaker 1 but hiding from the sun is very very problematic you know the sun is so pivotal to health and so we want moderate amounts of sun exposure but yes don't burn

Speaker 1 But you know, we've just sometimes these conversations are so narrow in scope and we take things way too far.

Speaker 1 And then, you know, slathering sunscreen on as, and I'm not saying that sunscreen is necessarily a bad idea.

Speaker 1 If I go to Mexico and I'm going to be on the beach all day, you know, I put some under my eyes, my nose, like where I know I'm going to get a lot of sun. Sometimes I'll put some on my shoulders, fine.

Speaker 1 But like, what's in the sunscreen? You know, like take that extra step and really think about,

Speaker 1 you know, what you're putting on your body because what you put on your skin actually gets absorbed. Yeah.
I think these big companies are really good at tapping into your emotions.

Speaker 1 I used to use mouthwash every day. I used to use toothpaste with fluoride every day, thinking it was healthy.

Speaker 1 And little did I

Speaker 1 Again, organizing principles. So, you know, did cavemen brush their teeth? You know, like, and it's interesting to kind of challenge, like, just think about that for a second and say, well,

Speaker 1 okay, well, what is, how do we translate that or maybe or challenge the orthodoxy, like the conventional thinking?

Speaker 1 You know, and I, cavemen didn't use sunscreen, obviously. So

Speaker 1 mouthwash, like destroying the beneficial flora in your mouth. Like, is that a good thing? You know, there's pro there's there's better ways to do it.

Speaker 1 And that's why I'm actually excited about where we're at because there's a lot of like cool products coming out what that they're actually in the on the dental sphere I mean Huberman actually did a great talk on this but you know they're encouraging the beneficial microflora in your mouth the oral uh microbiome rather than just like carpet bombing it with alcohol and just trying to kill everything right and then you know so

Speaker 1 We're getting there, man. I think the change is happening.
It's happening slow. I mean, we're all a part of that, right?

Speaker 1 And, you know, one of the reasons I'm here is because

Speaker 1 I feel kind of a responsibility at this point to

Speaker 1 share whatever it is that I, my experiences, whatever it is that I've learned, so that

Speaker 1 that change can happen from the bottom up. Right.
So, do you think red lights an affordable option? Do you think being healthy in general is affordable?

Speaker 1 Like, do you know how much you spend per year on health? I spend a lot,

Speaker 1 but it's an interesting dynamic, right? So,

Speaker 1 I got serious about my health maybe in my early 30s.

Speaker 1 Stopped the drinking and

Speaker 1 started learning about diet. And my life got so much better.

Speaker 1 Right. Like I

Speaker 1 was, I mean, I would struggle to get through the day, you know, and so that's where I do take issue with some of these

Speaker 1 influencers and these people that are like, oh, you just need to suffer more. It's like, no, I'm struggling to get through the day.
I don't need to suffer more.

Speaker 1 I need to figure out like how to get through the day.

Speaker 1 And so,

Speaker 1 but the reason I give that perspective is that when I actually made

Speaker 1 small changes to make myself feel better and have more energy and vitality and better health, then my economic situation got better.

Speaker 1 I mean, I perform better at work and I get promoted and then I have more responsibility and then start a business and the business is successful.

Speaker 1 And so you can create an upward spiral that I think starts with your health.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, it can be expensive, but

Speaker 1 start by making small changes. Skip the donut and eat an apple instead.
It's not that expensive.

Speaker 1 Rice and beans is a staple. It's real food.
Not that expensive. Buy a water filter.

Speaker 1 One-time small investment, not that expensive. Going for a walk is free.

Speaker 1 So you can do a lot of these things without having to spend a lot of money. And then as you get more health and vitality, you'll engage better in the world.

Speaker 1 And likely your circumstances will improve because of that, financial and otherwise, relationships, all of that stuff.

Speaker 1 And you get an upward spiral and then

Speaker 1 you'll have more resources to direct and you just try to create some positive momentum. Right.
And I don't think, so it's really about where you are, right?

Speaker 1 And so a lot of the biohacking stuff, I would say skip that. You know, how's your diet? How's your movement? How's your sleep?

Speaker 1 Start with the low-cost, no-cost things, gain some momentum.

Speaker 1 And then once you kind of button those ends and build good habits around those, then, yeah, I mean, some red light and some deliberate cold exposure and some sauna, like these are all great things, I think.

Speaker 1 But, you know, you got to crawl before you can walk. Yeah.
How much would you say an optimal red light setup would cost? And how long should they be using these devices and how often?

Speaker 1 Well, optimal is

Speaker 1 a matter of opinion. I would say,

Speaker 1 But in my opinion, optimal would be, and I was telling you this before we started recording, you know, shining the light on as much surface area of your body as possible.

Speaker 1 That would be optimal, in my opinion.

Speaker 1 So a bed, but you don't necessarily need a bed. We have giant panels that we offer.

Speaker 1 But, you know, you start small. You know, even a tabletop panel, which is, you know, what we sell most of because people like to use it on their face for their skin,

Speaker 1 is better than nothing. And, you know, again, high probability you're deficient in red and infrared light.

Speaker 1 So figuring out ways to get that back into your life, even if it's something small, is a good start.

Speaker 1 And something like that, you know, we've got panels that are 250 bucks and they're LEDs. They last forever, right? And so it's like a one-time investment and you're going to use the thing for years.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then, you know, and if you like it, then I would suggest considering expanding and really trying to illuminate your whole body would be ideal. Okay.
And how long should they be using it?

Speaker 1 And is it an everyday type of thing too?

Speaker 1 I personally do it five to six times a week. Wow.

Speaker 1 Because I just think, you know, and I'm very mindful of this. I go off for my afternoon walks, but I'm still inside almost all the time.

Speaker 1 And so

Speaker 1 I feel like I need it, and I just feel better when I'm using it regularly.

Speaker 1 Usually we say a minimum three to three times a week. I mean, some of the studies in the literature, it's, you know, it's pretty crazy.
There was a TBI study.

Speaker 1 And they just used the light and it was veterans, like they had, they were studying TBI and veterans three times a week week for six weeks, and they saw benefits in not just the TBI symptoms, but PTSD.

Speaker 1 I guess they don't, you know, they're sleeping better or whatever. So I don't know that it needs to be a lot, and really it depends on where you are, too.

Speaker 1 You know, if you're, if you have other health challenges and you're not used to it, I would say start kind of low and work your way up.

Speaker 1 But personally, I'm at a five to six day a week and I love it. And I miss it when I don't use it.
You can feel it?

Speaker 1 I do. And I definitely notice it in my sleep.
Wow. You know, I flew here yesterday and I made sure and I went into the office and I used it

Speaker 1 at like 10.30 in the morning and I got on the plane and then I fly back today and I'm going to go right to the office and use it when I get home, when I get back this afternoon. So

Speaker 1 yeah, I love it. I mean, but I'm super spoiled and super blessed that I have a bed and I've got giant panels in my house and it's very accessible for me.

Speaker 1 But, you know,

Speaker 1 if you have, you know, finances are a challenge, I would just say start small.

Speaker 1 And the thing is, you can accomplish the same thing with a small light. You just do sections of your body.
It's just more of a time investment. Right.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 My goal is to have a bed in my house one day for sure. Those things look sick.
Okay. Well, let me help you with that, please.

Speaker 1 We're friends now.

Speaker 1 And I can at least guide you. And

Speaker 1 again, we can work you there. And even starting with the panel, which takes up.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I definitely notice it.
I don't know if it's placebo, but... Days I use it, I can definitely, I feel like I could sleep better at night.
It's interesting.

Speaker 1 I mean, that's the number one piece of feedback that we get: better sleep.

Speaker 1 And even, you know, I had a friend in Scottsdale, and he's like, Yeah, he didn't really know anything about it. And so I just gave him a light, you know, like a tabletop light.

Speaker 1 I'm like, Yeah, just try it. And then a couple of weeks, he's like, Man, I got to tell you, I'm sleeping so much better.
And I was actually shocked because it's a small light.

Speaker 1 You know, I'm thinking, you know, if you really want to influence sleep, you probably really want to illuminate the entire body and get all the. I think the mechanism is increased melatonin.

Speaker 1 And there's some data, some papers published a a few years ago, and they're talking about how 95% of the melatonin in your body is actually made inside the cells when they're exposed to infrared radiation from the sun.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 And so,

Speaker 1 you know, again, our ancestors were outside all day. This infrared radiation is raining down on them.
It creates a little bit of reactive oxygen species because you're upregulating ATP.

Speaker 1 There's transient increase in reactive oxygen species. And so the body

Speaker 1 upregulates antioxidant and anti-inflammatory pathways, and one of them is melatonin production. So kind of what they're saying is, hey,

Speaker 1 you should be getting infrared radiation a lot, and you're going to make a lot more melatonin.

Speaker 1 And then essentially you create this reservoir of melatonin in your body so that in the evening when the sun sets and your pineal gland makes dim light onset melatonin to help you fall asleep,

Speaker 1 you've got this base reservoir of melatonin already from being out in the sun all day. And so you just, this has an opportunity to have a bigger impact and help you fall asleep.

Speaker 1 It's kind of how I would articulate it. So

Speaker 1 it's really fascinating, right? And I think we've all kind of experienced that. Like if you've ever been on a beach vacation, you just go hang out on the beach all day, you sleep great.

Speaker 1 I mean, part of it is, you know, just being on vacation, but I think a big part of it's just, hey, getting that infrared radiation all day. 100%.

Speaker 1 Whenever I'm out in the sun all day, I sleep so easily at night. It's definitely related.
We've all experienced that.

Speaker 1 So, uh, and so I, if you can't be out in the sun all day, like, consider, you know, uh,

Speaker 1 adding more uh infrared into your life through other means. Yeah, and like you said, that's how our ancestors lived, right? They probably didn't have as many sleep issues as we have today.

Speaker 1 No, they definitely do not, man. Between the screens and lack of infrared and uh, and all, you know, and everything else, and then just the uh

Speaker 1 the also the psychological things that we do. Like, I don't, uh,

Speaker 1 I don't watch anything kind of violent or

Speaker 1 like action type stuff anymore at night. Really? I was like, you know, it's like,

Speaker 1 because I'm like, I don't, maybe this is not the best thing to be watching before I'm about to kind of decompress

Speaker 1 and turn and let my subconscious or mind kind of do what it's going to do. Like, what do I really want to seed into my mind?

Speaker 1 Is it violence? Yeah. Right? Like, no, I don't think so.
So I watch comedy now. Like, before I go to sleep.

Speaker 1 And I, horror was my favorite genre, and I had to stop just watching it entirely because the psychological effects. Yeah.
And again, I think about the prism.

Speaker 1 And that's why it's so interesting, like trying to think about all of these booby traps in our modern life.

Speaker 1 Because, you know, I think probably both of our, like, when we, certainly when I was younger, my knee-jerk reaction, I'd be like, come on, man, lighten up. Like, it's just a movie.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know, for sure. And that would be my knee-jerk reaction.
But it's just the quantity and

Speaker 1 of like, you know,

Speaker 1 you can watch a violent movie every single night for the rest of your life if you want to, right? There's so much of it. And then the news isn't exactly great either.

Speaker 1 And the way the media works is like, you know, Fearporn gets the click. So you get all this negative stuff fed into your mind all day, every day.

Speaker 1 Like, I do think it has an impact, and I don't think it's a good one.

Speaker 1 So I've really kind of become mindful of that. And so I don't watch anything violent anymore at night.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I would say that it's it's hard for me to quantify this, but I think it's it's benefited me. I agree, for sure.

Speaker 1 We'll end off with hair stuff because there's some studies now on red light with hair growth, right?

Speaker 1 Oh, definitely. Definitely.
Actually, you know, red light was originally discovered

Speaker 1 by,

Speaker 1 well, I guess the discovery traced back to Andrei Mesder, who's a Hungarian scientist,

Speaker 1 and in the 60s. And so the laser had just been invented, and the first lasers were red.
So he was trying to replicate a study that the first guy that invented lasers did. He ablated tumors in mice.

Speaker 1 And so

Speaker 1 Andre in Hungaria, you know, he got himself a red laser and

Speaker 1 he shaved a bunch of mice and gave them all cancer, skin cancer. And then he shined his laser on the tumors to see what would happen.

Speaker 1 And his laser is very low power, so it actually didn't do anything to the tumors.

Speaker 1 But what he observed was much faster hair growth and much faster wound healing in the mice that he had, you know, surgically implanted cancer tumors in, right? Wow.

Speaker 1 so that uh so we've known since the beginning that red light is good for hair growth or at least it was in mice and now it's been brewed it's been shown in humans demonstrated so um

Speaker 1 we actually have helmets that you know if they're 510k cleared we're actually even allowed to say that they're for hair growth wow you know so like you know this we really don't make any claims most of our panels they're wellness devices hey they we sell lights they put out a very high amount of red and the infrared light at these wavelengths and we think that that's super super beneficial for humans and that we're deficient.

Speaker 1 But hair growth has been so well studied that there's plenty of

Speaker 1 products on the market where you could say, yes, this is going to help your hair.

Speaker 1 And actually we're coming out with a hair mist. A mist.
Yeah. So it's really a scalp mist.
So it's meant to augment the benefits. Wow.

Speaker 1 So I've been using it.

Speaker 1 My hair is still, you know, 48, and I started losing my hair probably 15 years ago, but I'm less bald than I was six months ago. That's impressive.
And so I've been using our helmet and our mist.

Speaker 1 And the before and after pictures on our site are actually my bald head and my less bald head. So you were fully bald at one point? Well, no, no, no.
And I was much thinner. Okay.
I was much thinner.

Speaker 1 And, you know, I've been doing this comb forward thing for a while

Speaker 1 because of the

Speaker 1 balding in the back and trying to kind of cover it.

Speaker 1 And it's definitely gotten better. Nice.
That's exciting for bald people watching this, man.

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, hair loss is tricky. And I do think, like, if you're Telecevalis, I don't know if it's going to, telecephalis is an old, uh, gosh, I'm dating myself, but he was very cubile.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 it's the follicle, if it goes dormant, like it, it may, it may be, it's past the point of no return type of thing.

Speaker 1 But if you're like me and it's just been kind of a slow grind and the follicles are just still kind of hanging in there, but they're slowly, you know, producing less and less hair.

Speaker 1 or thinner, thinner, thinner hair, like there's a chance to kind of like reverse it. Nice.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 I would say give it a try.

Speaker 1 And it's the type of thing which I'll be using for the rest of my life. Cool.
Scott, where can people find you and more about Mito Redlight?

Speaker 1 So our website, mitoredlight.com.

Speaker 1 We're on Instagram, Mito Red Light Official.

Speaker 1 Obviously, our core competency is red and the infrared LED lights,

Speaker 1 which again, we think that people could benefit from. But we're really trying to just be a health and wellness company and just empower people to take better care of their health.

Speaker 1 You know, again, something very personal to me. I've had a lot of health problems.
My son had health problems. So I think that we have to channel that into something positive.

Speaker 1 So, you know, that's really the goal for our company.

Speaker 1 We just want to help people feel better and then they can go out and engage in the world and we can slowly bottoms up, like try to make positive change in the world. Absolutely.

Speaker 1 We'll link everything below. Thanks for coming on, Scott.
That was fun. Thanks for watching, guys.
See you next time.