How to Make SMART Decisions in an Unpredictable World | Bryan Johnson DSH #624

you have the slowest pace of aging out of anyone in the world right now?

I think I'm like second or third in the world right now.

It has systematically dropped with the things we've done.

We used to be able to see the future over our lifetimes.

Now we can't even see a few years in advance.

Like that's how fast things are moving and how much uncertainty we have right now.

When you cannot see in front of your face, how do you make intelligent decisions?

Like how do you thrive in an era where everything is changing very fast and we don't know where we're going?

We are in potentially the most extraordinary moment of our entire species history.

We are giving birth to a new species.

Hey guys, got Brian Johnson here today.

Thanks for coming on, man.

We've been trying to set this up for like a year now.

Yeah.

You've been blowing up.

You've been on a tear, man.

It's been a fun ride.

Yeah.

I'm a customer of Blueprint and I tried a little bit of everything.

What do you think of it?

Love the olive oil.

I take the cocoa powder and the pink one.

Yeah.

And all the pills.

And it seems to be working well, man.

Yeah.

The data is good on it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's what I like.

You put all the ingredients, all the third-party vibes, right?

All the data.

Not many nutrition companies are that open with their stuff.

Yeah.

And even the data we actually gathered from a bunch of people using it in terms of mood, on sleep, significant improvement.

Really?

How are you tracking that?

By blood and questionnaires and wearables.

Nice.

That's cool.

Do you think Blueprint has the potential to surpass Braintree?

Yes.

Wow.

Because that was a huge company.

You sold it it for nine figures, right?

Yeah.

So you really think Blueprint could be bigger than that?

Yes.

How so?

We're launching five businesses currently.

So

the goal is we want to satisfy every calorie that someone is going to consume.

Two is we're going to have a labs company, Diagnostics, so you get all your blood drawn and speed of aging assessments.

Three is we're building a social network.

So arrival to IGX, others.

A place where you go to be healthy.

We're doing a certification business.

So a stamp of approval on products that are, you know, basically verifies with lab testing cleanliness of product.

And then five, we're building a network state.

So we're going to basically build a global government system.

So if you take this idea that if we are serious about not dying, not living forever, just like we want to not die, no government in the world is helping its citizens not die.

So we're going to try to build the most sane, robust, and efficacious healthcare program in the world.

Wow.

So this is much bigger than a supplement company.

Yeah, it's just, that's just the basics of just like how

we're trying to like

one thing I learned in getting into this business.

So when I started Blueprint, we were testing everything we were doing.

And we were trying to find the cleanest sources of everything.

And what we found is that everything is incredibly...

dirty.

So supplements, we know the thing, like sometimes you don't even have the ingredients in there.

They say it's in there.

And other times they're actually very contaminated wow and then the same with food and so we started testing extensively and we just were horrified by how bad it is so we started building our own supply chains like how do you actually do it and that's how olive oil came up is we wanted olive oil has to have specific chemical criteria to achieve the health effect in your body if it doesn't and it's fake olive oil you're not going to have the health benefit you know just basics of biology and so we started sourcing our olive oil from all over the world and then friends and family are like i want it too we're like okay so it just became a thing.

So it really was by accident that we got into it.

And it's so crazy because olive oil is not one of those things you think about that's unhealthy.

You just go to the store and buy it.

This is the thing.

So

you think somebody is watching out for you.

No one is.

And there's this assumption, like somehow, somebody somewhere must be in charge to make sure.

that the really bad stuff is not happening in the food supply chain.

And that's true for some things like salamonella.

But otherwise, for contaminants and other things, there's no checks in place.

Yeah, especially supplements.

I only buy third-party tests and now you have to, even though it's like triple the price, you don't know what's in there if it's not.

Even then, like we've, so we were buying from the people we saw that posted some results.

They said, like, we don't have these contaminants.

We tested their stuff.

We're far outside the

exactly, like consistently.

And so we were just like, who can we trust?

Like, literally, who is someone who can tell us what's actually happening?

And so we've done this where we source our own foods,

we test it in a lab, and then we publicly share the results.

So when you get the product, you can see the actual lab result of what the results were.

Don't take our word for it, just see our process in place.

And so we're trying to bring some sanity because right now the world is an incredibly dirty place, dirtier than you think.

Yeah, I have trouble shopping at grocery stores now.

With all the stuff I know these days, it's actually really bad.

Well, it's like triple bad because not only do the primary foods have contaminants, but then they have all the other added stuff, like, you know, the

ingredients we know are bad, like all the chemical sounding ones.

And then you stack it on top of like the process nature of it.

It's awful.

So it makes total sense why our health is declining and why we're in such a sad state.

Yeah.

And even the vegetables, there's a soil problem now.

So all the vegetables and fruits aren't as strong as they used to be.

So where do you buy your produce?

We source it from all around the world.

I'm saying the stuff you eat, though, like at home.

Oh.

So we have a few farmers we work with and we also buy stuff like at Whole Foods, but we have specific brands that we've been testing.

So it's a very hard thing to solve.

Like when I go out in the world and try to just interact with the world, like buying fresh food, I'm kind of at the mercy like everyone else is.

Like you don't really have very many options.

You can try to grow your own food, but even then, like in hydroponics, you've got all the plastics in there.

So it's not like there's a clean solution.

If you try to go to the farmer's market,

they're farming with irrigated irrigated water.

So it's not like you go to the farmer's market and you find this like pristine food that's uncontaminated.

It's like everywhere in society.

Wow.

And so exactly.

We've really uncovered how big of a problem this is.

I just can't unsee it.

I can't either.

I heard they wash the fruit with not even water, some chemical, like the sprays at the grocery stores.

What you can't see is, and this is the thing is.

When you go to the grocery store, you have no insight into how that food actually got made.

You have no data on it whatsoever.

And so that's what I'm saying.

There is nobody watching out for you in these ways.

And so we're really trying to,

I'm like, as a technology entrepreneur, the last business I wanted to build was food.

The margins are terrible.

The margins are terrible.

It's incredibly painful.

It's just the worst business, but nobody's doing it.

And so even for my own ability to actually eat clean food, where do I go?

And so we're trying to be that for myself, for everyone else.

Like, how do you actually try to,

and like, even when you go through the supply chains and go to a manufacturer,

they do things that contaminate foods, but they're not trying to do that.

Like, they're just building systems that are cost-efficient.

So they use this rubberized plastic, which leaches, you know, plastics into the food.

So it's not like people are bad intentioned.

People are just trying to make things work.

And it's just part of our system of how we've built the world.

There's also like healthy brands will start and then they'll sell to a a big food company and then they'll take out the ingredients and then put in bad ones for margins.

Have you seen that?

Yes.

So that's another problem too.

Yeah, it's like the

so there's like innocent things that happen of like, you know, people don't purposely try to be bad.

Then there's still bad stuff that happens.

There's people who kind of know it's bad and they still do it.

There's people who just do evil stuff.

And those are all true.

They're all happening.

Yeah.

So do you even have health insurance because you're so healthy?

I do.

You do?

Yeah.

That's surprising, actually.

Because it's inevitable that i'm going to get hit by a bus right like we know the universe speaks in irony yeah there is no way me there's no way i do not end up being hit by a bus

i saw you you broke an ankle the other month or something fractured it yeah fractured it wow and dancing dancing so yeah you might be you might be manifesting something man you got to be careful yeah yeah although i will say that i healed um 50% faster than normal.

Wow.

We stacked seven therapies.

My doctors were stunned.

So it was cool.

We just like threw everything at it and it inhaled incredibly fast.

It's I think it's week eight right now.

Oh, but I'm fully back.

Like I can do everything.

So that normally takes like what four months to heal?

Takes a while.

Yeah.

And you're back in eight weeks.

Are you walking without any assistance?

Yeah, and playing pickleball and workout.

I'm fully back.

Okay.

What was the most effective out of those seven you think?

We don't know.

Oh, you didn't individually measure them?

Well, if you you can't, it's like in this very short time period.

And so you'd have to do this individual controls.

So we just put the whole stack together.

So we, in this case, we don't know what made what contribution.

So there's, I think you said 78 organs on another podcast.

Are you measuring all of them right now?

As much as we can.

The technology, like, for example, like

the lungs is an accessible, like you can measure the lungs pretty easily, the brain pretty easily, eyes, ears.

But some biological functions are just harder than others.

Like you want to, you can measure the liver, you can look at biomarkers, you can do like liver fat, you can look at the imaging, but like you really need a biopsy in some cases, which is hard to get it, you So, like, we try our best, but the

okay, so let me back up.

I should probably go instead of getting technical speak.

There's a concept of chronological age, and there's a concept of biological age.

So, I'm 46, but that doesn't mean my entire body is 46.

It means that

46 years of time have passed and my organs have aged at different rates.

And so, my left ear is 64, my heart is 37,

my cardiovascular capacity is in the top 1.5% of 18-year-olds.

Wow.

So different markers, different ages, and some things you can do to meaningfully change your biological age.

Some things are very hard.

Like my left ear, that's 64 because I listen to loud music and shotguns.

We've not been able to move that marker at all.

Dang.

Whereas with the heart, we've made progress.

Same with the lungs, same with the brain.

So some organs are very hard to fix up, and others are very static.

Yeah, so hearing is tough.

What about eyesight?

I have terrible eyesight, man.

I I don't want to get LASAC.

Do you think there's a way to treat that naturally?

So I have perfect eyesight.

And so we just do basic things through supplementation.

This is in the blueprint stack.

We do

Zeanthin and

what is it?

I'm forgetting.

Yeah, we do a few supplements for it.

But we have not done any

advanced therapies for eyes.

Okay.

And stem cells, I've heard, can reduce aging, right?

Yeah, stem cells are very complicated.

You definitely, like, there's a lot of people will just go to Mexico or someplace outside the U.S.

and do stem cells, but it's actually quite complicated and nuanced and potentially dangerous.

Really?

It is, yeah.

You just don't want to just jump into it.

Okay, so you haven't done that yet?

I have.

But you have.

We spent two years researching it and planning it out.

Whoa, two years.

What makes it so dangerous?

I've never heard that take on it.

It can lead to all kinds of complications.

Like sometimes it's not stem cells.

It's just like food, right like you have a whole system of production you have a bunch of people trying to make profit so you just get human messiness when you do it and so yeah there's plenty of stories where things have gone wrong so it's not to say that stem cells are not um potentially beneficial it's that you need to know what stem cells you're getting you need to make sure they're being manufactured by clinical grade guidelines You need to make sure the practitioner is following those.

Like, for example, before I had mine injected,

we actually had them quantified at the site that there's actually 50 million mesenchomyl stem cells going into my body.

So there's like a certain level of rigor that needs to happen.

Okay, that makes sense.

This is like the pattern.

Like this is the true, when food comes through the blueprint pipeline, I've tested the entire process.

I know the contaminants.

I know the purities.

I know everything about it.

The same is true with mesenchymal stem cells.

And that's why I think this endeavor has been successful, is we don't just tell stories like do this or do that.

We rigorously quantify and structure the entire process.

So when it actually arrives, you're using the best science to say we've nailed this down to the best of our ability, but

it's not storytelling or like a friend's passing this on, like go do it.

Right.

You're never guessing.

Everything's already on paper, right?

You know all the numbers.

You're never like just attempting a guess.

Yeah, to the, I mean, to the best of our knowledge, right?

There's this legitimate question, how much do we know and how much do we not know?

And we're pretty humble.

Like we're pretty eager to learn.

We're eager to be be wrong.

But we at least have a process that establishes,

that, that quantifies things, that allows us to see things as clearly as we can.

Yeah.

Are you still on that Hunter sleep score streak?

No, I'm not.

Oh, it ended?

Yeah.

You were six months in it.

Well, yeah, I did a 1 a.m.

show with Steve Aoki in Vegas.

Ah, so that ruined it?

Yeah.

Damn.

So you broke your rule.

Well, that was my celebration.

I had eight months of perfect sleep, and I thought, what better way to celebrate it than at 1 a.m.

with Steve Day Valgate on stage.

Fair enough.

You broke a record though.

I think so.

Yeah, Hunter for eight months you said?

Yes.

Jeez, that's unheard of.

People don't even get that like a week straight.

Yeah, or even one day.

Yeah.

Do you think it's possible for just an ordinary dude to achieve those results?

That's what I wanted to show is that you can.

Like I didn't do any, there was nothing I did that was expensive.

Really?

No.

You just slept at the same time.

Exactly.

Blackout curtains.

Yeah.

Like you basically set up the habit.

So you go to bed at the same time every single day.

Like within, like if you want to be a pro, it's like within five minutes.

If you want to be like, you know, like

intermediate, it's 30 minutes.

And if you want to be like an entry-level, it's an hour, like plus or minus.

But going to bed at the same time is really important.

And then the last time of your final meal.

So if your bedtime is at 10.30, you want to try to eat your last meal by 8.30 p.m.

So you have two hours of digestion.

And you can even experiment with going to 7.30 or 6.30, 5.30.

Mine's all the way back at 11 a.m.

That's your last meal?

My last meal is 11 a.m.

Wow.

Your first meal is after that.

Yeah.

This is not to say my way is the only way.

It's to say that I went through a process.

I experimented hundreds of times with different eating times, different foods, different circumstances, and then I watched my data evolve.

And so that's why I think the eight months of perfect sleep is just evidence that you actually can go through a process of learning.

how to achieve perfect sleep and they just repeat that again and again and anybody can do it.

So

same bedtime uh eating the last meal of the day earlier in the day and lighter so heavier foods like pastas and breads and stuff like that food generally just puts a big metabolic burden on the body to digest it so you want to push it earlier so the body can like do its thing and then get back to getting your body ready for sleep and then uh let's see

yeah you can do a bunch of things like you know do blackout curtains i sleep with an eight sleep bed i just bought one of those yeah it's game changing excited Yeah, it's definitely worth it.

So, yeah, but everyone can do it.

Like, you sleep is the number one

best performing longevity drug

without question.

This is where I start to see the robotic comments.

So, there's all these people online.

You sleep at the same time.

You eat the same thing every day.

I'm sure you get this and you see this.

Like, what's your response to that?

I mean, so one.

What has them so upset about this?

Like, why are they so upset?

That's a good point.

You think they're projecting a bit?

I mean, I go to bed on time.

What's the beef?

You're not harming anyone.

Like,

what is the issue?

Like, what am I doing

that is offensive?

It's interesting.

Yeah, maybe they don't have the freedom to just be flexible with their day.

I don't know.

Could be a mix of all different arguments.

Yeah.

I mean, if you look at the criticism that's come my way,

like, I'm basically, I've chosen health and health habits.

And

I mean, yes, some of the therapies I've done are definitely out there

of the edges of longevity.

But generally speaking,

I think it's really entertaining and I think it's fun that people get so worked up about what I do.

Yeah, you're passionate about it.

You feel fulfilled doing this, right?

That's what's important.

Yeah.

I mean, got to shut out the noise.

You do do some interesting stuff, though.

I want to talk about the erection, measuring the erections at night.

And you're basically trying to measure how long your heart while you sleep, right?

That's right.

And what was the purpose of that one?

It was actually accidental.

So I was doing a therapy for my lungs.

And I was doing nebulized zithromycin.

So I was trying to basically counteract the effects of COVID.

My lungs aged a lot when I got COVID.

Really?

Yeah.

I had this full-body ultrasound machine in my house.

We had routine measurements of my entire body.

So we saw what happened to my lungs and my heart in real time when I got COVID.

And so it was pretty bad.

Wow.

You know, a lot of people will say, they'll speak about COVID and say, I had a fever, the sniffles, not that bad.

And when we saw the damage in my heart and lungs, it's serious.

And I was potentially the only person in the world that had this continuous full body measurement looking at the damage.

So I was trying to repair that.

And I was, I thought, while I'm doing this nebulized thing, I'm breathing this medication in.

I thought I might as well do another therapy.

And so I have this electromagnetic stimulation device.

So I would sit on it and it would stimulate.

And a lot of women use this to rebuild pelvic floor after having a baby.

And men will use it to rebuild bladder strength so they don't get up at night and go to the bathroom or just generally bladder strength.

And so I did this and I noticed that I started having erections.

And so I brought this up with my team of like, what is going on?

And so then we dived into the literature and we found out that nighttime tumescence, so nighttime erections, boners, is a significant marker of biological age.

So it's a representation of your sexual health, psychological health, and cardiovascular health.

Wow.

So

people that you say the word boner and it's like, yeah, you chuckle because like you don't associate it with anything other than arousal or sex or something.

You don't think of it as an age marker.

But we know this, like as people age, it's harder for them to get boners.

It's harder for them to sustain boners.

That's what Viagra is about, right?

It's like helping people overcome age-related problems and others.

And so we did this research, and then we said, okay, can you actually biologically age?

And so we said, yes, you can.

So we found a little device out of the UK.

You just put it on the shaft of the penis.

When you go to bed, it's small and you just forget about it.

You would think it's a major problem.

It's not.

And then it measures the number of erections you have in a given night and the duration and strength of each.

So you'll get a score, like you had five erections this night, you know, each averaged out 88% you know efficacious and then total duration time.

And so my baseline measurements were one hours, one hour and 30, I'm sorry, 132 minutes, so two hours and 12 minutes.

And that put me right in the middle of age 46.

So when you're 46, that's what you expect to be erect every single night.

And so a lot of men hear this.

They're like, what?

You're like, yes, like most men, when they're 46, experience at least two hours and 12 minutes of erections.

Wow.

And so we said, okay, can we change, can we actually improve this?

And so we did two therapies that had good evidence behind it.

We did focus shockwave therapy and we did Botox.

And so then we did the measurement again, and my nighttime erections improved to 179 minutes, which is just eight minutes shy of the movie Titanic.

And so it happens every night.

And so that's actually significantly better than an average 18-year-old.

And so the purpose, to answer your question, the reason we did this is because

when you talk about

health, you know, like biohacking, like whatever word you want to use for it, people have a certain idea in their mind of what it means, like it's taking pills, it's going to the gym, it's like doing whatever.

And we were taking this different approach, saying you can actually measure biological age of your organs.

And then you can go through this process, look at the science, do a thing, and change your age again.

And so when we said that about the heart, people are like, whatever, or like the brain.

But then you say boners, people are like, wait, what?

They're like, this is how it happens.

Like, you actually, you can change your boner profile by using science.

And that's, it was honestly one of the best things we ever did to actually convey the concept that you can biologically age a given thing, an organ, a biological function.

You can apply science, you can measure again and say, does it work or not?

Yeah, that's a good model.

A lot of people have ED right now.

A lot of guys are struggling with that.

So that's important.

Do you have the slowest pace of aging out of anyone in the world right now?

I think I'm like second or third in the world right now.

Who's ahead of you?

One or two people.

Yeah.

Interesting.

Yeah.

It's like it's still an emergent test.

You know, like

I've marched mine down from being over one, which is one is basically you're aging at the speed you're expected.

So I was just above one and I've marched all the way down to 0.64.

Wow.

And so now I celebrate a birthday every 19 months.

I love that.

But it's legit.

Like it has systematically dropped with the things we've done.

And it's such a cool concept because it makes something so tangible.

Like what is your speed of aging?

Like what's your aging clock inside?

And so that's why I open sourced Blueprint.

I just said like, here's what I do.

Here's exactly what I do.

You do it too.

So several people have reached out and said, I want to beat you.

And I think they thought they would get, I would be competitive and be like, no, I'm going to crush you.

But I was like, great.

And let me help you.

Oh, nice.

Like, my disposition is really, I want people to beat me, and I want them to share what they've done.

And it improves everyone's health and wellness because people don't have access to doctors like I do.

And I don't want this to be some esoteric black box thing.

I want everyone to have access to all the knowledge I do.

And so it's really meant to be a community endeavor.

that everyone benefits.

Yeah, access and money, right?

Because you're probably spending millions a year, I assume, on your health.

No.

You're not?

No.

So the majority of the money is on measurement okay so it's very very expensive to measure stuff it's very hard but the protocol is very cheap really how cheap like a thousand dollars a month and those are the supplements you sell right yeah so it's like um food supplements a gym membership it's actually very low cost it's not bad at all people have this conception that i spend millions it's not on my therapies it's on measurement which is a thing that no one does

yeah that's true because the measurement part you need all these crazy doctors and tests and some of your tests are overseas i saw too right like you just did a gene one overseas yep what was that about so if you look at the best performing lifespan studies it's their gene therapies they're cell therapies and we've been wanting to do a gene therapy for three years now but we never got comfortable that it was safe because when you do a gene therapy so this will be a little technical for a moment it's delivered via what's called an AAV, which just means when you put it in the body, you can't turn it off.

Oh, wow.

So go it does its thing and it's going and we didn't like that because we wanted to have an off switch like if what if we what if something goes wrong what if we don't like it like we want to shut it off and so we found this technology made by a company called mini circle where they deliver via a plasmid and there's a kill switch you take a pill um and so that's that made me feel much more comfortable that we can experiment with gene therapy which is some of the most powerful therapies out there and also be safe having a kill switch.

Interesting.

What makes that one so powerful?

It just gets down to the details.

Yeah, so what it's doing is it's there's a

your body expresses levels of folostatin FST.

And so what this does, this gene therapy increases the level of folostatin expression.

So my levels went up by after the gene therapy, just a little shot in the arm.

They went up by 160%

in two weeks time.

So my next measurement is this week, actually.

We're going to see where the levels are at.

But the boost in full statin levels have had a whole bunch of effects.

Like it lowered my speed of aging.

I added 7% muscle mass increase.

We're trying to measure other effects in the body.

But this is why it's valuable to measure is you want to see whole body effects.

I agree with almost all your takes.

It's so data-driven, but there is one that I want to hear more about.

You use sunscreen, right?

I do.

And there's some new concerns, I guess, new studies of the potential damage with sunscreen.

Have you seen that?

I have.

So what's your, is there a specific brand you use that you looked at all the ingredients or something?

Yeah.

So, I mean, one is there,

there's this conception in the West that a suntan is a sign of good health.

It's not.

Being suntanned means your skin has been damaged.

The sun causes damage.

Now,

the moment you say that, I'm going to get piled on by everyone.

All the girls.

Well, all the guys.

Yeah, guys guys like Tanzania.

It's almost like if you challenge red meat, you're gonna get piled on.

And so there's like these, you walk into this religious war.

And so like meat is a war, sun is a war.

And so I'm not here for warfare.

I'll just tell you what I think the

landscape looks like.

So yes, the sun damages the skin.

Like you can't argue against that.

And when you're out in the sun and you get burned, you're incurring sun damage.

And you can quantify that.

You could actually use multi-spectral imaging and look at the damage that it's caused.

Also, sun is very good for you, right?

There's all kinds of it improves mood, it improves vitamin D, like all kinds of positive things.

And so, my argument is not no sun.

My argument is get the sun, get sun exposure at the time that doesn't cause damage.

So, between 6 a.m.

and 9 a.m., before the UV index is four or above, I can do sun exposure.

Or when 6 p.m., you know, to 7, 8 p.m.

sunset, I also get a sun exposure.

But in the times where the UV index is four or above, I avoid direct exposure to sunlight.

Got it.

So, but my objective, again, is don't die.

My objective is not have tan skin.

And people confuse like what my objectives are.

I'm trying to literally be like the most don't die person in history.

And so they confuse, they conflate their ideas of reality with my ideas of reality.

But I'm trying to say there is a, you can measure the process at which the body dies with the sun exposure and so if I wasn't getting enough sun exposure and there was some kind of deficiency in my mood or my biochemical processes We'd fix it.

But like there's no we can't identify any of any deficiency.

And so this is like where it's a good example of that people are so fast to fight and judge.

Yep.

And so it's just like it's humans.

It's fine.

It's fun.

It's cool.

But like just a invitation of self-reflection.

We don't need to be at war with each other.

Like we can actually have these reasonable conversations and kind of arrive at this balanced approach.

Well, there's that viral meme of photo view and you look pale and then do I look better in this year or this year?

Yes.

And people said 2017 or whatever, right?

Yes.

Yeah, that's yeah.

Yeah, because you were much more pale in the photo to be.

Yeah, I had, I had actually, in that photo, I had sunscreen on.

And I used a sunscreen that basically created a white sheer.

So like people are saying Voldemort.

Yeah, I know, exactly.

Oh, man.

But the thing with sunscreen, though, is like the ingredients right because now it's there's some new studies that some of them might be causing cancer and stuff okay yeah so that was the thing we didn't address so yeah if you if you're gonna wear sunscreen do a mineral based sunscreen like a zinc oxide is great uh then just be aware of the ingredients so um

it's a balance right if you're going to get sun exposure you there are people who don't want any sun exposure and i'm sorry don't want any sunscreen they get full exposure like do you there are other people who don't want any sun exposure will the sunscreen like do you There's a balance in between of like, so sunscreen is not a harmless product.

Like, there's potential complications.

So just be mindful of that.

Getting sunburned is also dangerous for you.

And so it's really a middle ground.

I don't think that the extremes on either argument work.

But I wear sunscreen.

I do a mineral-based sunscreen with, I try to be mindful about the ingredients.

Got it.

Yeah, but I also try to minimize my use of sunscreen.

Do you only wear it like 6 to 9 a.m.?

I only do it if I'm in direct sunlight.

Got it.

Okay.

Air quality.

You're big on that.

Yes.

I saw your post on July 4th.

I was really surprised that fireworks caused that much damage to the air.

Yeah.

What?

It was like

it was totally unsafe to be outside.

That's never talked about.

Like, I've never seen someone say that it causes the air quality to go that haywire.

Yeah, it's really, really bad.

Like, you can't even leave your house at that point.

Yeah, and it's bad for your entire body, your brain, your lungs.

Like, it's bad for everything.

Wow.

And you got air filters all over your house and outside, right?

Just inside.

Yeah, Yeah.

So I have devices outside.

So I'm always aware of air quality inside, outside.

LA has compromised air quality.

If you look at the rankings, LA is on

lower side in the U.S.

Really?

So air quality in my house is pristine.

It's perfect.

But outside, it's, yeah, it's...

So I'm mindful of air quality, especially in LA because it's dirty here.

I wonder why it's so bad here.

I think there's a bunch of reasons.

I think if I read, I don't know if this is true or not.

I read that you get a bunch of these tankers coming into LAX to drop their loads, and they're doing, they have their fuel by these dirty diesel.

Got it.

And then, of course, you have a lot of traffic, a lot of cars going everywhere.

So I don't know specifically, but definitely if you look at the air quality, you can go to iqair.com and see stations that report air quality all around, like in every city, all around the world, actually.

Air quality needs to be talked about more.

There's some really concerning studies on children being born in like major cities and having problems.

Exactly.

So, yeah, if we piece this conversation together, like if you say,

how dirty or clean is the food supply?

How dirty or clean is the air quality?

How dirty or clean?

So it makes sense why health is

in a challenging state for most people.

We're surrounded by contamination everywhere.

And so we, and we still do these things like the 4th of July, we get together and we blow these things up in the air, but it's so terrible for our bodies, but we do it.

Yeah.

And so

when I do these things, I'm trying to challenge the cultural norms where we just do these things on autopilot, but they're actually really bad for us.

Yeah, even the water we drink.

Exactly.

I didn't realize how bad that was until recently.

Yeah.

Crazy.

Even tap water,

plastic bottles, all of it.

Yes.

What do you drink out of?

I have a custom built system at my house.

So on my website, if you're interested, I have the guy's name and phone number.

If you want a system at your house, he's going to get blown up.

Yeah, it's $1,200.

Oh, that's not too bad, actually.

And so, like, I

expect everyone to basically lie.

Like,

they share what their product does and they share the specs.

And in my experience, most companies don't tell the truth.

And so, we did this, and we tested it independently, and his specs were actually right.

Interesting.

His system did what he said it would do.

That's rare these days, man.

It is, exactly.

So, we're impressed.

Like, he so good job him.

And so, yeah, the water,

we tested for over 300 contaminants.

Okay.

Is it reverse osmosis?

It is.

Got it.

Yeah, there's a whole debate on like spring water reverse osmosis, but that one seems to be the most, the best one, I'd say.

Yeah.

And in these debates, measure it.

Right.

Like, quantify.

Give me numbers.

Like, don't, let's not fight each other over storytelling.

Like, give me numbers.

Yeah.

At the rate of your aging, you might break the world record for the longest human to ever live.

I don't know what that is.

Probably like 130, right?

Yeah.

I mean, if you look at the speed at which technology is improving.

So, okay, so my speed of aging is now at 0.64, and we're trying to get lower and lower and lower.

We're not going to get it to zero because you can't stop entropy.

But what you can do is repair damage when it happens.

So let's just paint a scenario.

Let's say I can get my speed of aging to 0.5 in the next year or two.

So now I'm celebrating a birthday every 24 months.

And so then we take the remaining 0.5 damage that happens every year year and we can do therapies that reverses, let's say, 15% of that damage.

Now I'm down to 0.35.

Wow.

So you can see like in the coming 5, 10, 15, 20 years, we just start pushing down that number.

It's like getting lower and lower and lower.

Now my birthday is every 36 months.

Like then it becomes real, right?

Like technology is improving.

You're pushing it down even further.

And so you benefit from slowing your speed of aging and the technological benefits.

And that's my whole argument.

I'm basically saying that

this moment moment in time, we are evolving as a species into something entirely new.

And that means all of the cultural norms we have today are going to be out.

So everything we understand about what it means to live a virtuous life, whether you get a suntan or not, like all these ideas, like whether you blow stuff up on the 4th of July,

it all is situated in our cultural norms of 2024.

And people don't, they forget these are not universal truths.

They're temporary cultural manifestations.

And just like we look back at history and we're like, oh, yeah, those people are primitive.

Right.

Right.

But we forget we're the same.

And so in 50 years, we're going to be viewed in the same primitive frame as they are.

It's just, it's continually this past.

So the invitation is to be humble that we don't have life figured out, that whatever we imagine to be true is just like our cultural narratives.

Yeah, that's crazy to think about.

And now with AI approaching, I just went to a holistic dentist in Vegas and they took photos of my teeth they put it into AI showed me all my cavities and diseases in my gum yes isn't that crazy yeah that's the future of health right there yeah and they'll regrow your teeth there's a new technology to regrow teeth wow yeah they just came out but there's like it's um it's a really cool time to be alive and

uh if you can help it you don't want to die yeah no it's really exciting i might do that paluva scan have you seen that yeah full body and it detects all disease cancer i mean that's really cool yeah i do it every year i use ezra oh nice yeah you do it every single year every year because there's a lot of concerns with mri on on the damage of it right yeah there's uh there's no evidence that mri is dangerous really no oh i see that all over social media

that's this is the thing right it's like um

i know that's like how humans are processing that information but there's no evidence like if you do contrast agents like you're injecting your something to look at a contrast like yes then you've got some complications but no there's no evidence that mri is dangerous that's crazy because there's people at the airport that won't walk through the one where you go like this.

The scanner.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's

the best way to have discussions is looking at the data.

It's not to say the data is always going to be correct.

It's not to say that you can't misinterpret the data, but it's such a good foundation to have a baseline conversation.

Otherwise, anyone can say anything and then it just propagates.

And then by the time you get to the game of telephone, the third person repeats it and it's like taken as truth.

It's really wild.

That's why I'm surprised so many people come at you because you are so data-driven.

Like to me, I'm very logical.

That's hard to argue against.

But I guess it's a moral thing, right?

I think it goes back to the beginning.

It's a really fun question.

Why are people so hot and bothered

by what I do?

It's the health space in general.

There's so much drama in the health social media space.

There's guys coming at Gary Brecca and all these guys.

I don't know why.

Yeah.

I mean, it's like, well, one of the reasons why is I think that health and wellness is a like religion, right?

It's like you have the King James Version of the Bible, and it can support 100 religions because everyone can say, my religion is the best, it's like the accurate version.

And they'll be like, John 4, 12 says the following thing, you know, like so everybody can cite chapter and verse.

The same is true of health and wellness.

Like you can find a paper to argue anything you want to argue.

And so when there's no...

ultimate source of truth and everyone's on stable footing, everyone basically views their knowledge to be the same, there's no way to resolve the conflict.

And that's why I open source everything I do.

I'm the most measured person in human history.

I've made all my data public, all my biomarkers.

I'm the only person that's done that.

Yeah, it's impressive.

So like when someone's talking about, like, yes, like, you could talk about things in a systematic way, but I've really tried to be open and transparent to be like, you can criticize whatever I say or do, but my data is ultimately the representation.

And we're going to make mistakes.

We're going to learn, sure.

But it's really, we try to carve out a space to say, in this world of constant disagreement, we want to be a source of trust that people can say, like, all right, I can be stabilized here.

Yeah.

Are you doing anything on the spiritual side of health?

Because that's way harder to measure.

Um, I will say that, um,

my mental health and my spiritual health have never been better in my entire life.

Wow.

Because I sleep well, I exercise, and I eat well.

And so much of our spiritual health is how we're actually doing.

I would imagine it's got to be pretty hard to be spiritually healthy when your body's not working well.

When you're not sleeping well and not eating well and not exercising, it's got to be hard to like just overcome that.

Yeah.

And so that's a good point.

People say, like, sometimes they'll say, why don't you talk about mental health more?

I'm like, I talk about it all the time, like non-stop.

Like go to bed, get exercise and eat well.

There's a direct link.

Because when I did struggle with depression and stuff, my physical health was terrible.

Exactly.

Like I was sleeping four hours a day and not working out.

So, there's definitely a link.

Um, and you also host these dinners, so you're getting a lot of different opinions.

I want to hear more about these infamous dinners.

I've had a couple guests come on the show saying it changed their lives, actually.

Oh, are you serious?

Yeah, tell me, Simon Hill was one of them.

Oh, cool.

Yeah, so what was the point of hosting these?

How often are you doing this, and how long are they, and everything?

Yeah, I uh, that like fills me with joy to hear people say that.

So, I've been hosting these dinners for the past few years, and frequently people will say it's one of the most consequential experiences of their life.

Wow.

They can't stop thinking about it and like it just it has a permanent fixture in their mind.

And

I wish there was an easy way for me to explain what we do.

But like the short of it is

it's a two hour long conversation.

It's a five part

I run people through a series of thought experiments

and there's five turns in the experience.

And

what's interesting is the ideas I present,

okay, so

think.

Basically,

if you invest yourself in the two hours of time, you can arrive at an insight about reality.

But you have to spend the two hours participating and thinking about it and engaging.

If you don't do it, when I express these ideas, you're going to shut me down so fast fast that you're going to be like, This guy, like, whatever, it's stupid idea, stupid thing, and move on.

It takes that much time to actually

achieve the level of insight to see it.

And so,

it's all about don't die.

And it's basically,

I'll say this last thing: it's basically trying to say, if you can imagine being in the 25th century, so a few hundred years into the future,

and they're observing this moment right now,

in the same way we look at the third century or 2000 BC

and we say, of course that thing is obvious in that moment.

Like, of course, that's what they'd figure out.

Of course, that was the wise thing to do.

What would the 25th century would say about us?

Like, what is the wisest thing that we could do or think or believe as a species?

And so it's trying to capture what is wisdom.

from the perspective of a few hundred years into the future.

Wow.

And so it takes time to try to arrive at that.

Yeah, I can't think of that just off the spot.

I'd be curious what you guys have concluded with, or do you keep that private?

No, no.

So I'm going to,

I'm writing a book right now, like a little pamphlet, to basically try to have people host a million don't die dinners before end of year.

Wow.

And so it's interesting.

I will say that

when we have these discussions, that most people think that their comments and ideas and observations are original.

And actually, it's extraordinarily predictable.

Really?

Every single time, it's the same ideas, same comments.

It's amazing.

Noted, noted.

And it's very humbling as a human, right?

That like most of us, like most of what you and I do on a minute-to-minute basis is extremely predictable.

Now, we experience originality in what we say and do and think, but actually, we're living out these scripts.

And so that's why it takes so long to work through it.

You have to work through yourself.

Wow.

There are theories of a shared consciousness.

We're getting a little spiritual here, but there's theories that we're all linked in some way.

Yeah.

Do you believe in that?

So you might be able to predict what I'm going to say.

No.

I want to measure it.

Yeah.

Like, otherwise, like, if I, if I jump on the bandwagon and be like, of course there's a shared consciousness.

And like, we all have, like,

I'm not adding anything of value.

I'm just like putting words together that mean nothing.

Yeah.

I want to know like, what is the experiment we run?

to measure.

And if I can't, I don't know how to form an opinion.

Right.

That's interesting.

Because you were very, were you you part of the Mormon church growing up?

Yeah.

So that's like total opposite thinking than what you're doing now.

You nailed it.

So that's why I'm curious.

I grew up in storyland.

Right.

And you just believed everything you were taught growing up.

Yeah.

And then you had a life-changing moment, I assume.

Yeah.

If there's a, if there's a problem that needs to be solved, you tell a story.

What do you mean?

Like

a loved one dies.

You know, and like you're grappling with the loss of that person no longer being alive.

You're sad.

It's unimaginable.

Why did they die?

Why did something terrible happen to such a great person?

You have all these questions.

And

the Mormon religion was like, let me tell you,

let me tell you why all these things happen.

And where there was any void whatsoever, it was like, it wasn't God's plan.

Basically, there was an answer for every concern or problem you had about reality, there was an answer.

It was never like, like, we don't know.

Like,

we actually don't know.

And so I went from a world where you know everything and you solve it by storytelling to now I'm firmly in the camp of I probably don't know anything.

Wow.

Like in this context, as we're giving birth to superintelligence.

I'm probably as primitive as a caveman, if not worse, in a relative intelligence comparison.

Dang, what a statement.

That's crazy.

So you're just constantly needing proof to believe something, basically.

I mean, otherwise, like, how...

Okay, so like in most conversations, like you and I can go back and forth.

Most of social interaction is meant to generate social cohesion.

Like you and I are trying to get along.

We're trying to be friendly.

Like we want to have a nice podcast.

But we're not necessarily, like, we don't distinguish what is social cohesion and what is truth-seeking.

So if you say to me, do we have a shared consciousness?

Like, I don't want to be a dick and be like, Sean, that's stupid.

Like, why would we ever believe that?

Like, I want to be nice.

And like, I want to have like a yes and kind of conversation.

But if we basically say, okay, we're now going to depart from like social cohesion land and say, we're now actually going to talk about like what we actually can know and how we know these things.

And so if you want to say that, well, we need to have like some kind of methodical process that is scientific, that has quantitative parameters and so in that way we distinguish like what you and i do to get along and then what we do to solve to actually figure out what is actually happening and we don't make those differences we don't distinguish when we're in what land so you can be in a social conversation like you're talking about a given topic and someone's like i think everything's a quantum quantum entanglement computer because it's like you know like someone else is like honestly babe like i agree with you

like i've been waiting for you to say that i've had podcasts like that yeah it's like you just don't even know what to do Because, like, where, where are you hanging out?

What is the basis of reality?

How do you understand the situation?

So, I really try to hang out in knowing land and say, What can we know?

And then say, Everything else, I don't really know.

Interesting.

Would you ever consider psychedelics, whether it's micro-dosing or full trip, full journey?

Sure, yeah.

I've done a lot of psychedelics.

Oh, you have?

Yeah.

And that still hasn't persuaded you to think about spirituality more?

So, it's

so I did with my brain interface company, Colonel, I did ketamine.

Okay.

And so when people do ketamine, they do it for, it was being used for depression as one indication.

And so typically you would measure someone's response to ketamine and say, how was it?

And the person's like, well, I was like a different dimension and I felt like the following thing.

So they use words to explain this subjective experience.

And we actually used a brain imaging device and we measured my brain 30 days before.

during ketamine and then 30 days after.

What happens to the brain when you do ketamine?

And so that's a good example like i can certainly tell you what it's like to experience ketamine but i really want to see my brain images and so in that case i got a really concrete answer of like what happened like but so think of your brain

like a uh globe like a planet earth and you have cities with airports connected so like traffic from new york to tokyo is a big hub whereas new york to some small town in alabama has less traffic you have these networks in your brain of big traffic patterns and when i did when i did ketamine it took all my patterns and just scrambled them.

Whoa.

So now like Tokyo's in a different place, New York's in a different place, but it took my patterns and I just scrambled them.

Now in the two or three days following ketamine, I was very open to new ideas.

I was like outside of my ruts of how I think.

And then on day four or five, I started seeing my openness start closing up and I was walking into my old patterns of how I understand the reality.

And so some people talk about that as a therapeutic window, but that's definitely what I experienced experienced is that we saw in the data that when you do these psychedelics, it opens you up to new experiences and new patterns, but then it quickly closes.

Interesting.

And so I like that.

So instead of like,

instead of like, you know, do I, did I consider it to be spiritual, like I can make subjective assessments.

Also, I can explain the phenomena by looking at brain patterns.

And so that to me was helpful of like, if I want to change behavior or create a new habit or a new belief, like these are potential things that can help you do that.

So I can see why it would be helpful for depression.

You're trying to break the depression hold on the brain and create new patterns.

Reprogram your mind almost, right?

Yeah, Elon Musk does ketamine.

Apparently a lot of top CEOs do it.

So there's, I gotta look into that one.

Yeah.

I mean, I mean, so

I don't know if ketamine is a good idea or a bad idea.

Okay.

I did it as a part of a study, but I don't know if it, if it qualifies to be in the protocol.

And so the fact that Elon does it, I would not say

means that others should do it.

Fair.

Fair.

A lot of people idolize him and will just see that headline and start doing it.

Exactly.

That's a good point.

Yeah.

So this is why, like,

man, it's really, it's really dangerous being a human, right?

Like,

it's really hard to be human.

Yeah, because you've done some crazy ones.

And if people see that that are huge fans of you, they'll attempt this.

You got to be careful, right?

So I try to do things that if people repeated it, I'd be cool with it.

Okay.

So I try to, you know, like

I try to do things and show

where it works and where it doesn't and why it might be good or bad for you.

I saw one machine you have at your house.

It punches you in the abs like 10,000 times.

What is that?

Yeah, it uses electromagnetic stimulation.

And it gives you a six-pack?

Yeah.

So it builds muscle.

It basically grabs all the muscle fibers and makes them

flex in ways you can't really in the gym.

How much is that?

We bought a knockoff system from China.

It was like seven grand or something like that.

Shout out to China.

I needed one of those.

I thought that one was cool.

Yeah.

Because sit-ups are annoying, let's be honest.

They're annoying.

And I have terrible posture, which I want to talk to you about too.

How do you fix yours?

Because I've had slouching issues my whole life.

Yeah.

Yeah.

These chairs actually, like, it's like seven degrees

tilted back.

So I'm in incorrect posture right now.

Like, like the correct posture would be like...

like a bit more like this.

Crisscross?

Well, I do this to relieve the pressure on my back of having the knees down.

But I'd normally be something like this.

But this chair is like just slightly off.

But the reason I do a lot of posture is I found that, so you have two pipes on the side of your neck that allow blood flow in and out of the brain.

And so the pipes that allow my blood flow out of the brain are genetically narrow.

And so when I'm in a slouched position like this, it kinks those pipes and it stops blood flow from my brain to my body.

And so we found that on imaging.

And then we found there's not good ways to actually fix the problem.

You can't do surgery and surgery is very dangerous on the the neck.

And so posture is one of the best ways to do it.

And so yeah, posture is like a staple of my existence.

So like I'll give you a few tips.

Yeah.

So

imagine you've had a string that's just pulling up on top of your head.

You want to be roughly straight

because our default is kind of like this.

Yeah.

Because we're doing the keyboard and we're on our phones and so we're just slouching.

So being up roughly like this.

And so we did this and we measured the flow rates of my blood with ultrasound in different postural positions.

Wow.

And then you also want to build up muscles around your neck.

I do several exercises.

I have a video on this where

you want to strengthen the muscles around your posture because if you try to maintain proper posture, you're going to be, like for an entire day, you're going to be so sore, you can barely, like, you don't realize how many muscles are required to

maintain proper posture.

So I had to work at it and remind myself like 100 times a day for like six months before it became default.

100 times a day.

Holy crap.

Like even Alec, right?

Like you slip again, right?

It's so easy.

It's so hard to maintain.

So you have to make it default for the body to be in it.

Otherwise, you just forget again and again.

Yeah, I bought that back bridge that you lay on.

Have you seen those?

Tony Robinson.

Oh, yeah, I saw that.

Yeah.

I don't know if it works, but.

Yeah.

I'm down to try different things, man.

I'm like you.

I don't measure it as much as you, but I'll try different things.

Yeah.

You know, I think people should be more open.

Yeah.

That's hard.

100%.

Do you have a Don't Die summit potentially in the books coming up?

Yeah, 10 coming up.

We just announced we're doing 10 cities around the world.

So first one's in September 8th in San Francisco.

Then we'll be off to Singapore.

And then we have eight US cities.

Nice.

Any other books or events coming up?

That's it.

So we're building, we're launching a don't die social network.

So like we spend a majority of our time on TikTok and IG and X and YouTube.

And

sometimes we feel great, sometimes we feel awful.

But the algorithms are not meant to improve our health.

They're meant to keep us engaged and spend more time there.

And so we're building a social network, Don't Die, that is specifically for the objective of improving your health and wellness.

That's exciting.

And I agree.

I get some nasty videos on my feed, man.

I see people dying.

I see animals getting hurt.

It's really weird, like what they're showing.

It's almost like they're desensitizing people.

Yeah, it's kind of wild, right?

Like we live in these algorithms and we don't realize we do.

And we just don't even we're not even aware of how much they actually influence us it's upsetting because i'll have on a brilliant person on the show like super successful gets no views then i'll have on some only fans girl millions of views yeah you know yeah so as a as a host i have to balance that which is unfortunate yeah this is why you do nighttime reactions like you're like you it's uh it's snappy and it actually demonstrates a interesting scientific point yeah so i've never seen you talk about your sex life yeah is that something you pursue do Do you practice semen retention?

Like, what's going on there?

Semen retention is on our list to examine, but we haven't looked at it.

I don't know the evidence behind it.

Okay.

So this is like

in the world of health and wellness, there's a list infinitely long on things you can do.

Like, right?

There's like Eastern practices, Western practices.

There's so many things you can do for your health and wellness.

And we've tried to say we're going to focus on the power laws.

Otherwise, we're just doing everyone else as like ping-ponging around various things.

And we're trying to systematically solve what is the most evidence-based approach to extend one's lifespan and increase one's health span.

And so I don't know where semen retention lands, but if it doesn't help that objective, we're probably not going to do it.

Got it.

I'd be very curious to see a study on it because there's a lot of people talking about it, but no really data that I've seen at least.

backing it.

I'm sure you see it too, right?

Yeah, well, I mean, it may be interesting.

Like, it may have certain metabolic effects.

Like, it may have certain physiological effects.

I don't know.

So, like, we do things for a very specific objective.

Like, I'm not training to be dropped into a forest and fight wild animals.

You know, like, people will be like, bro, your system is so fragile that, you know, it's like, okay, but you're missing the point.

I'm not training to fight a wild beast.

And so it's a very specific objective of don't die.

What's the next study you're working on right now?

We're looking at hyperbaric oxygen therapy.

Oh, that's exciting.

I just started doing it.

Have you tried it yet?

I've done it a few times in life.

Okay.

But we have a protocol that we've set up.

We're measuring about 45 markers, and we're going to do a control experiment on whether it does anything for my markers.

I'd be very curious because when I did get a brain scan, they told me to do it three times a week.

for a TBI, but that seems like it's, if that could fix that, that's really exciting.

Yeah, there's good evidence on

acute trauma for H-bot.

Wow.

For athletes, that'd be major because a lot of athletes deal with that.

Yeah.

Brain injuries.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't, I know that in my discussions, I'm aware of, I don't know the specific data behind the trauma application, but I know that's one of the areas where it's excelled.

Like there was this Israeli study where they're looking at the elongation of telomeres.

Some people thought it was interesting.

Other people didn't think it met the threshold on evidence, but we're curious.

So we're going to give it a go.

And

I guess this is the way we like to do things is, you know, again, it's a limitation of n equals one, so it's just myself.

So it's not conclusive for everybody, but at least it's a structured, methodical experiment where I can say it did or did not change these, you know, X number of biomarkers.

Do you ever want to start bringing like maybe a female or another person in your study so it's not just you?

Yeah, we've tried.

Like my coworker, Kate Tolo, did this.

She was on Blueprint.

There's a video about her doing this.

She did it for 90 days.

And the challenge we had is it is so hard to do this.

We deal with dozens of doctors because we pull in people who have expertise in these very narrow areas.

And then we have to do these esoteric measurements and these esoteric therapies.

It's just such a heavy lift.

It's a full-time job, right?

It honestly is.

I work right now.

I currently am working like five full-time jobs.

Jeez.

I'm busier than I have been in my entire life.

Wow.

Which is crazy because you sold a company, you could have retired, and now you're busier than you were before.

Nuts.

Are you still taking 150 supplements a day?

It's down to 50.

Yeah.

Dude, I tried that.

I got up to like 30.

I couldn't hang.

150 is insane.

It's a lot.

I'm glad you toned back.

What caused that?

We made some into powders.

Okay.

So now I drink them.

Oh, so you're still taking the same amount?

Yeah, same nutrients.

Got it.

We just put it in different forms.

Yeah, 150 is tough.

And are you still eating 2,000 calories a day?

Yeah, 2,250.

That's pretty low, right?

Yeah, it's 250 below RDA.

And plus, I exercise for an hour a day.

Wow.

So are you burning more than you're eating then?

Yeah, this is like a common misconception.

So I do a few things that break norms.

So I do caloric restriction plus I'm vegan minus collagen peptides.

And then I also exercise quite a bit.

And

yeah, so most, like when you say those things, people would assume I'm weak and frail.

And, but the data is the opposite.

So my muscle mass is in the top

top one percentile, same with my body fat, same with my cardiovascular capacity, same with my total bone mental density.

So all the markers that you care about that demonstrate strength and like body fitness, I'm in the top 1%.

Wow.

And so

again, it goes back to this idea that when you hear something in the world of health and wellness as a rule of thumb, it's best not to believe it.

You really need to see data.

And then the best is to see it in your own biomarkers.

But it's definitely like, and that's why the...

I've tried to talk about more universal things people can do.

Like sleep is good for everybody.

There's no, there's very few situations where good sleep is not going to be the right prescription for someone's life.

Right.

Yeah.

People can start there.

It's free.

It's super cheap.

Yeah.

I think a lot of people focus on random stuff that they see on social media, like red light versus regular sauna, minus school stuff compared to sleep.

That's right.

I understand.

People are trying to do positive things for their health.

That's great.

And they do the things that are accessible to them.

Great.

Because being human is very hard.

Everyone's fighting against their bad habits.

And everybody wants to stop their bad habits, but they can't.

And they feel helpless in many ways.

So they do these positive things to try to compensate.

Again, I get it.

Good job, everybody.

We're all in the same boat.

So, yeah, the key is to try to prioritize things that have the best evidence.

Yeah.

You have any bad habits still or you got rid of them all?

Honestly,

I solved bad,

I solved bad behaviors.

Yeah, it's actually quite a statement.

It's actually crazy.

I don't have any bad habits.

Really?

I don't.

I've never met someone like that.

Yeah.

In my entire life.

I never thought I could get here because I felt so, even a couple years ago, like five years ago, I was helpless to stop myself.

You know, I just couldn't.

I couldn't stop overeating.

So yeah, it's actually really liberating.

So when it's funny because

people

will want to dunk on me.

They'll be like, this, this dude is miserable.

He hates life.

I've seen those.

Mozilla.

It's just like I get pummeled.

And meanwhile, like my conscious experience, I've never been happier, more full of joy, more stable, more emotionally stable.

Like I've never felt better in my entire life.

And so it's such a funny situation that people

accuse me and project on me that I must be in misery.

But like.

God,

I never imagined I can be this happy.

I never imagined that I could actually not eat the donut or not eat the brownie or not stay up later than I want.

Like, that was just out of my imagination range.

Yeah, it really sounds like you found your purpose, your alignment, for real.

Like, that's really cool to see you there.

Not a lot of people get there.

Like, a lot of people chase money, which you probably did for a while, right?

Yeah.

Building that huge company.

Money was.

Well, that was, so when I was 21, I came back from Ecuador.

I was living there among extreme poverty.

I was a Mormon missionary.

And I came back to the U.S.

and I wanted to spend my life doing something that the 25th century would respect.

I've read so many biographies.

I feel close to people in history who've done things of significance.

And I want to be in that chain.

I want to contribute to the future.

And so that was really my only objective.

I didn't know what to do.

I didn't have any skill sets.

And so I just determined I would become an entrepreneur, make a whole bunch of money.

by age 30.

And then with money, I'd go out and do something interesting.

And so I got lucky.

actually, I worked my ass off

and got lucky with Braintree Vammo.

I sold it for 800 million.

And then at that moment, it was like, all right, we made it.

We made a whole bunch of money.

Now what?

And so then I spent about 10 years thinking about this question of what would the 25th century say is the wisest move in this moment.

Wow.

So you've had this plan for a while.

Since like my entire adult life.

Dude, because me just observing you, I would have never thought that.

I thought you just stumbled across this and dove head on.

it's been a master plan from like the moment I put on my adult brain of like, now I have to figure out what I do in life.

This has been the only plan I've ever had.

Wow.

So you care a lot about legacy.

You want to be in the history books.

I care about,

I care about contribution.

Like if you, I like the, I like the idea that

I don't know why I'm here.

I don't know why I'm conscious.

Like, you know, I don't know what's even happening in this universe.

I don't understand what's going on.

All I can understand is I'm this conscious being.

I experience things.

And I think it's a

really fun game to play of what can each one of us contribute to the well-being of intelligence in this part of the galaxy.

Like we're part of this bigger thing.

Like we're like there's billions of us.

And instead of me saying, I want to play a game of making the most amount of money or I want to play the game of whatever, I like the frame of what are each of us capable of contributing

to the species.

And so

the thing that I, okay, like the

threshold is,

does the future remember your contributions?

Now that's not always true.

Like sometimes people do amazing things and they actually don't get in the history books.

And so it's not like history is a those who keep history are a perfect recorder of things.

But it's one marker where like if you do something in the future, it's like, thank you, person of the past.

We appreciate what you did.

Yeah.

So yeah, I feel really connected to the past and the future.

And I feel not so connected to this moment.

It'd be really cool to see you start a community or maybe even a religion around this, this way of thinking.

So that's the goal.

So I fantasize about could there be a billion people in 2027 that their primary identity is don't die.

And so again, like friends, those of you listening, I do not expect you to understand what that means.

No, it's not eternal life.

Like, no, this is not a vain ambition.

This is basically, I'm trying to say, this is what the 25th century does.

And to understand what I'm saying, you have to hang out with me for like two hours.

I'll scale this, you can, but it's basically a new way to understand reality in this moment.

But, yeah, like, I that would be the goal: it happens at a

normally to get a billion people to self-identify with something will take centuries.

And I'm suggesting some insanity to try to get done in three years or four years.

There's no reason to say that statement other than I want to will it into existence.

Well, with social media and huge platforms like podcasts, it's possible.

I don't know about a billion, but definitely a lot of people.

You see the rates that people are leaving religion now because of social media.

They're seeing all these cults get exposed on TikTok or whatever.

Mass numbers are leaving

these religions.

I think, honestly, I think it's possible.

Like, we're so connected, and

Don't Die is such a stable

and durable idea.

Like, once we actually get through it together, it is

just solid.

It's not whimsical.

It's not like some fancy story.

It's not going to be beat up by something.

It's so solid.

I do think it's possible.

I mean, you're there.

You had Kim Kardashian at one of your Don't Die dinners, right?

Yeah, she's cool.

She can influence a billion herself.

We had a good time.

Yeah.

What was her main objective there?

She is going after aging as aggressively as I am.

Nice.

I love that.

It's important, right?

Yeah.

If you get to the point where your physical body can't handle the aging process, would you ever consider transferring to another physical body or maybe an AI?

I'm open to all things.

Wow.

So that's something you thought about?

Sure.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

I mean, we're, we are giving birth to super intelligence.

Like, to put this in perspective, when I went to college, I could identify what I was going to study and then identify a career and then say I'm going to do this career until I'm a certain age and I'm going to retire.

So I could map out my entire life.

My 18-year-old just finished his first year of school, of college.

He's trying to figure out what to study.

You know, CS, math, physics, humanities, like what does he do?

He has no idea what the world is going to be like in two years' time.

No one knows.

When AI can take your job and you then have no utility, like you have to then learn a new thing.

And so if you use that as something we all know to be true,

we used to be able to see the future over our lifetimes.

Now we can't even see a few years in advance.

Like that's how fast things are moving and how much uncertainty we have right now.

And it's happening everywhere in society.

And that's, again, it's one of the foundations of Don't Die.

It's like when you can't see, when basically when the future is fog, when you cannot see in front of your face, how do you make intelligent decisions?

And that's what this entire philosophy is about.

It's like, how do you thrive

in an era where everything is changing very fast and we don't know where we're going?

Interesting.

I love that.

I'm excited for one of these dinners, man.

Because I'm of the belief that we have a soul and we're here for a time and that's the purpose.

So maybe that could be shifted with one of these dinners.

Great.

I would love to have you.

Yeah, I think

you'd enjoy it.

I think the process is very fun, and we get there always.

Like, at the end, we do a group hug.

Oh, nice.

We're new friends.

Like, we've shared this experience.

Multiple people have had existential crises.

So, like, it's really a great, warm, shared experience.

Cool.

Any closing messages, Brian?

That was really fun.

Don't die.

Yeah, don't die.

I would say the closing message is

that

we are

in potentially the most extraordinary moment of our entire species history.

We are giving birth to a new species.

And we don't know what form it's going to take and what it's going to be like.

We don't know if we have a future or not.

It's kind of the most epic situation ever in our history.

And I think we would do well to sober up and say, and see this for what it is, and play our cards right, that we want to say yes and travel into this future.

Even if it's scary, even if we don't know, even if it's something that's brand new, that we say yes to what could be the most spectacular existence in this part of the galaxy.

It's extraordinary.

And so I hope we can really

find common ground and move in a different path to the species because I think it really could be the coolest thing ever.

Love it.

That's powerful.

Guys, we'll link Brian's social media handles below and Blueprint if you want some supplements.

Thanks for coming on, man.

That's great.

Thanks for watching, guys.

See you tomorrow.