Clinton Sparks Reveals the Dark Side of Fame and Fortune | Clinton Sparks DSH #556

Yeah, you know, I've I, you know, the two things that destroy most businesses, relationships, reputations are,

what do you think they are?

Let's say

chasing fame and money.

Those are good, those are good answers.

Let's put it up on the board.

Ladies and gentlemen, what do you guys think?

Greed and ego.

Those are the two things that pretty much destroy everything.

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All right, guys, we got Clinton Sparks here.

Thanks for coming, man.

Someone I've been talking to for years.

Thank you.

Thank you very much for having me.

I appreciate it.

I'm really proud of your come up.

Dude, you too.

I was doing some research on you.

You've had the biggest people in the world on your show.

Thank you very much.

You were probably the networking king of the music industry.

Yeah, probably one of those guys.

And then,

you know, it's funny, on the way here, I made a post on my IG today.

I was podcasting before podcasting was a thing.

Oh, yeah?

Yeah, it was 2005 and 2006.

I was running around with microphones, a laptop, and headphones, and running into all my posts.

You'll see me and Kanye backstage

in a green room doing an interview.

And like, I was like, it was really foreign back then.

Everyone's like, what are you talking about?

You're coming to do an interview.

Because typically you'd go to the radio station to do interviews back then.

So I was like, I'm just going to go where everybody is.

And then I'd upload them to Apple.

So I was podcasting back in 2005.

Good old itunes, right?

Exactly, yeah.

Wow.

So you had the foresight.

That was before Rogan days.

Yeah.

Rogan started in what, 08?

Yeah.

So you were super early.

What compelled you to get into that so early?

Well, I was doing radio since 2000, and I was like, how can I expound past?

I mean, every time I do something, I'm like, I watch the best.

Typically, people look at who the best are in an industry and then try to emulate them.

My formula was like, look at who the best are, what they're doing, and then realize what they're not doing right or what they're missing out on or what they're leaving on the table and most that they don't realize.

So that's what I kind of capitalized on.

So when I started on radio in like 2000, even when I got on the radio, I'm thinking about before I start, what can I do that separates me from everybody else?

Because I was a hip-hop DJ.

So everybody at that time just wanted to sound like Funk Master Flex.

Do you know who that is?

Yeah, I know the name of the family.

I didn't know if you were too young.

I'm pretty young.

I've heard of him though.

Okay.

Legend Legend in hip-hop and, you know, DJing.

So everybody, he drops bombs, right?

So everybody wanted to sound like Funk Flex, drop bombs, and be just as cool or cooler than the artists that they were interviewing.

So I was like, why am I just going to come on here?

And yo, we got my man so-and-so in the building,

and act like I'm the cool guy and stuff.

And it's like, and I was, and I knew everything cool, and I was super.

uh you know culturally connected and understood everything that was going on in the industry but i was like what can i do that separates myself So I developed, well, first of all, my skill as a DJ, you know, stood out.

But then

I developed a persona that almost made me be like the innocent, naive white kid that didn't know better.

Right.

So I would ask questions and be able to ask questions that somebody else in hip-hop couldn't ask, especially a black dude couldn't ask it.

Really?

Yeah, because it would probably cause a fight.

So what's an example of a question you would ask?

Like Jay-Z.

Yeah.

I would say, so like when you're on tour on the road by yourself and like you're just in your hotel room by yourself, like, what do you do?

Right.

And then he'd be like, what do you mean?

I was like, I don't know.

Do you ever watch adult feature films?

And then he'd be like, what do you mean?

I was like, I don't do watch adult feature films.

And he's like,

what would I do?

Why would I do that?

I was like, I don't know, get familiar with yourself sometimes.

You know, it's just like

somebody else and hip-hop or from the street,

those would be fighting words.

You know what I mean?

Me coming off as almost like a kid that doesn't know better, it's almost cute or crazy, that crazy white dude right you know what i'm saying so that was a way that i was able to get in and build relationships with a lot of hip-hop artists in addition to that i i purposely built my radio show so here's how i really crack the code to building strong relationships when you're in radio everybody wants to be your boy because they want you to play their record right so when i was getting familiar with how radio works and how the record companies work, I realized when they take an artist on a promotional tour, they take them down certain regions.

So I was like, okay, so when they go to Boston, then they go to Rhode Island, then they go to Connecticut, then they go to New York, then they go all the way down the East Coast.

So what I'm going to do is I'm going to build my own syndicated radio show that I'm live in four different states

in four different radio stations every week.

So I got myself to be on radio in Boston, Connecticut, New York, and Baltimore.

I'm live in all these states.

The same way you go crazy recording all these podcasts, I went crazy by being being in different states.

And you were traveling to each city?

Paying on my own dollar.

Holy crap.

And I didn't have money yet.

So I was figuring it out.

Southwest flights to Baltimore every Saturday, paying for that.

My schedule was Monday, I was on Boston Radio.

Tuesday, I was on Boston Radio.

Wednesday, I would drive to New York and I would do Shade 45 for four hours.

Then I would drive home at midnight.

back to Boston, which is a four-hour drive.

Thursday, do Boston.

Friday, I'd drive two and a half hours to Connecticut.

I would do five to seven.

And then I'd do again from midnight to three and then drive back home.

Then Saturday, I'd go to the airport and fly to Baltimore.

Wow.

That was every week on my own dime.

That's nuts.

The reason I did that is because I knew if Pharrell or Busta or one of these artists are doing a promo run now, they're going to see me in Boston.

They're going to see me in Connecticut.

They're going to see me in New York.

They're going to see me in Baltimore.

And you know this industry, man.

We just talked about it before we started.

You meet somebody once, that's my boy.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Like, I'm with you four times that week.

We're actually becoming boys now.

And I put myself in a leverage point where I add tremendous value to you.

It would behoove you to be my friend because I'm on all of these radio stations.

You need me.

So you want to be my friend so that I could help break your music and promote what you're working on.

So that was kind of the, actually, I've never told this story like publicly before of how I kind of positioned.

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You know, building my brand from the beginning and how I did it this way.

Yeah, people just think it happened overnight, right?

I don't know if they think it happened overnight because most people that know me know me know like I've done a lot of shit in my career.

Like I've been a part of a lot, building a lot of cultural brands and companies and a lot of behind breaking a lot of artists.

And like, you know, I was one of the biggest mixtape DJs in the world.

So when the mixtape era was there, I was in that kind of small circle of guys that were breaking music and breaking artists and changing culture in the streets.

And is radio still as big today as it was when you were doing it 10 years ago?

No, it's definitely not as big at all.

Taking a step back?

It's taking a step back.

It's still important.

It's still a crucial part of, you know, an artist's journey and breaking music and music discovery.

But it definitely doesn't have the same gatekeepers.

It definitely doesn't have the same cachet.

Like, right now, if you put out a record, the first thing you would think about is not radio.

Back then, radio was the beginning, and everything else maybe came afterwards.

Now, radio is almost last, right?

You got YouTube, you got streaming services, the streets, like everybody, TikTok, all that stuff can break something.

Then radio is like, oh my God, all the kids are loving this.

We should play it.

Before it was the other way around.

Did you see that downfall of radio coming?

I don't know if I seen it coming.

I mean, I watched it happen.

Did it happen fast or was it kind of like a gradual no?

Because it's still, it's still, it's still not, radio has, there's no demise of radio.

It's just not as prevalent as it once was.

Got it.

I feel like podcasts have also taken some argister off radio.

Because a lot of artists go on podcast tours now.

Yeah, 100%.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, because look, you're going straight to the people.

You know, how many people, how many people do you know, when I go to my car, I go to Spotify.

Yeah, same.

I don't go to the radio station.

No, I haven't listened to radio in.

But you used to.

It was the only thing you went to.

You had your program stations, the ones you care about.

Now you're going to Spotify, or you're playing shit that you already have.

Yeah.

Right.

Specifically.

Or even playing off YouTube.

You know what I mean?

Well, there's just so many commercials.

I don't know if they still have commercials.

Yeah, tons of commercials.

Yeah.

Fuck, man.

Get rid of those.

If you want to gain more audience, get rid of commercials.

For real.

That's why I like Spotify because I just pay for the premium.

I skip all that.

Totally.

Radio should have that.

You should just only pay for premium radio.

Yeah, absolutely.

But then they'd make no money.

Yeah.

So where'd you pivot to after the radio stuff?

So simultaneously

doing the mixtape being a producer so while i'm on radio i'm also like producing platinum records for tons of artists um i'm a grammy nominated multi-platinum producer songwriter dj sold over 80 million records wow uh producer everybody from i work with everybody from eminem to kanye to rick ross big sean ti two chains ludicrous akon pitbull you know crazy lady gaga beyonce you know i discovered and signed dj snake i signed him in 2007 six years before he did turn down for what

um so that, again, that seeing things like way before they happen.

And I would think that's probably one of my

powers is the ability to forecast trends.

Do you think that's something you were just born with or you kind of got it just by being exposed to certain things?

I don't know because I've been exposed to a lot.

Right.

So I definitely would say it's my.

experience through the different lives that I've left,

lived since I was, you know, I lived 10 lives by the time I was your age.

You know what I mean?

So

yeah, it's definitely an experience and then how you take those experiences, right?

So, some people can take an experience and like be devastated by it, be demolished by it, or run around for the rest of their life and be an alcoholic or a druggie because of those experiences.

There are some other people that can take experiences and learn lessons from those and become more powerful and stronger.

And I believe,

I don't know why or how, but I believe I'm one of the people that were able to take things that I went through and assess them, dissect them, and realize, okay, where's the good?

What's the bad?

What do I need?

What do I not need?

What's going to affect me?

What's going to empower me?

And then I was able to do the work to utilize that stuff to make me become successful enough that throughout my life, I learned how to win, repeat, win, repeat, win, repeat.

Love it.

Yeah.

Got it down to like a formula almost.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You were probably really good at controlling your ego and your emotions because you're around all these successful people.

So it's easy to get wrapped up in that, right?

Yeah.

You know, I've, you know, the two things that destroy most businesses, relationships, reputations are,

what do you think they are?

i'd say chasing fame and money those are good those are good answers let's put it up on the board ladies and gentlemen what do you guys think

uh greed

and

ego

those are the two things that pretty much destroy everything right and i learned that early in my life being in the streets and seeing what goes on you realize like oh they're only fighting because of his ego oh they only got shot oh there's only a problem because of greed there was only i was like oh wow everything gets ruined because of ego and greed so i from day one man when i was just old enough 12 years old to understand life you know enough i realized like i don't want to have i'll never be greedy and i'll never have an ego wow so you got to grow up quick 12 years old already thinking about stuff like that is pretty young i was already i was already robbing and stealing at 12 years old so i grew up in boston mass okay so uh you know i grew up um

broke uh my father was an alcoholic ended up leaving us My mother was a single mom.

So I was bullied a lot.

I was lonely a lot.

And then I was sexually abused for many years in my home.

Yeah, so you have to learn how to survive

when you grow up that way.

And you can either have a chip on your shoulder and be angry at the world, like, look what happened to me.

Or you can

really step back and understand, why are these things happening?

Or, you know, what can I learn from these things?

I mean, as weird as this may sound even when I was a kid and I know these things looking back and when you're doing it or you're going through it you don't realize that you're breaking or becoming stronger but when you get older and you look back now with a mature

you know way of thinking I remember back then when I was a kid I even used to think like I wonder why this guy molests me

like who thinks that as a kid You just think, I'm getting molested, right?

Or I'm saying, you just me, me, me.

Like, woe was me, this happened to to me.

Or, can you believe this happened to me?

Or how could you let this happen to me?

Right.

That's the typical reaction that somebody would have.

Mine was like, What happened to this dude that's like making him do this to me?

Wow.

Why does he feel the need to do this?

What does he get out of this?

Yeah.

Like touching a little boy, like, like mentally.

So that was my first, now that I'm old and I look back, I'm like, wow, I was actually really intuitive to psychology, like really young and also really young.

So you add that, right?

Also at a young age I was very intuitive of marketing I'll tell you how two specific examples I remember sitting at a kitchen table I don't know I'm eight nine ten whatever and I'm sitting there having Ego waffles with like Mrs.

Butterworth syrup classic right and I'm just like mom Why doesn't Ego make syrup too so they can just lock down the whole breakfast experience?

Now they do now, but when I was a kid, they didn't.

And I didn't understand that.

Why would Ego let someone else take them them syrup market share for something that they're creating?

Now, at the time, I didn't know that that was a unique way of thinking.

But when I got older, I did.

Then the other thing, too, is I love Reese's Peanut Butter Cups when I was young.

And peanut butter cups would always brag about their peanut butter.

So I'm like, if their peanut butter is so great, why don't they jar it up like Skippy or Jiff, which they do now, but they didn't when I was a kid in the 80s.

Wow.

Right.

So, but now when I look back, I think, wow, I always was thinking about how to improve brands.

And I would sit in the back of my mom's car and look at billboards, going to the beach and the the hot leather seats in her, you know, whatever car we had in the 80s.

And, you know, I'd look at billboards and be like, oh, yeah, no one's going to get that message.

Or like, yeah, that doesn't make sense.

No one, what does that even mean?

You know what I mean?

So I was like critiquing marketing as a kid.

And then I went on, so then you put that aside.

Then I went and started my first company with my mom at 12 years old, where I would, you know, solicit people to do, shovel their driveways, clean their house, wash their car, go grocery shopping.

And I would hire other teenagers.

It was called Rentateen, which sounds like a crazy name today.

But back then, it was a cute name, right?

And, like, you know, I would take a nick of every kid that I'd go get jobs for.

So I understood early on, like, psychology, marketing, pulling the right people together to do a team, how to sell, like, how to fulfill a need, right?

Supply and demand.

So, all those things came from the emptiness of not feeling loved, cared about,

neglected, right?

So, and then broke, right?

So you're trying to survive.

So all these things instinctively just happened to me as a kid, which then developed.

And then I honed them and put in more work and built upon them even more, which got me to become a man.

And,

you know, then even when I became a criminal, you know, I was a, I used to rob people.

steal cars and break in homes when you were a teenager.

Yeah, when I was a teenager.

And I'm not proud of it.

And I never bragged about it, which by the way, coming up in hip-hop, if I did, I probably would have got more stripes.

But I wasn't proud of it, so I never talked about it because I didn't think it was cool.

And I didn't want some kid to see my success when he's being a punk.

And then he can turn around and say, well, look at Clinton Sparks.

He's doing all right.

And he was a shithead.

So I never wanted anybody to know that I was a shithead when I was a teenager.

Got it.

You were like embarrassed almost of it.

Yeah, I was ashamed.

It wasn't cool.

Like, you know, people nowadays, they do dumb shit to fucking brag.

Or as you said, get clout or get followers.

And it's like, nah, I never even, I never even told my friends.

Oh, you just did it alone.

Yeah, I did like,

there's a code, man.

You do your dirt by your lonely.

Right.

And anybody that's real knows that that's the code you live by.

Yeah.

And that's because someone's going to rat.

Right.

Somebody's going to, something's going to go wrong once you bring somebody else into what you're doing.

For sure.

But yeah, but even then, you know, what's interesting about that is you could hear this and say, wow, he was an asshole when he was young.

I even had a heart then.

And I know that's ironic, but like when I would get orders, I want a VCR, a TV, a video camera, whatever.

If I broke into a house and they had it all, I'm like, oh, cool, just get it all here and I'm done and I'm out.

I wouldn't do that.

I'd take one thing.

And I put myself at great risk at robbing more houses to get the other products.

And the reason I did that was because I knew how broke my mom was.

And I was like, man, if she worked really hard to get all these things and we came home and we were wiped out, man, that would suck.

But if just our VCR was gone, like, where the fuck's the VCR?

You know what I mean?

So, like, I didn't want someone to come home that might be working really hard and just be completely wiped out.

Wow.

So it's ironic that even as a criminal, I actually still gave a shit about the people I was robbing.

Yeah.

Like, I still haven't figured that psychological

thought process out.

But, like, it's interesting to know that,

well, I guess one, it does show that I was just doing it to survive.

Right.

And then, two, like, even when I was doing wrong, I still was thinking right.

You had a conscience.

Yeah.

What was that defining moment where all that ended?

Was it, did you get arrested or something?

I got arrested a lot.

Yeah, in fact, the biggest culture shock to my life was being like, you know, a white kid growing up in like black neighborhoods and being a city kid.

At 15, my mom was sick of getting me out of like, you know, jail.

Yeah.

So she's like, I'm sending you to your dad in the suburbs.

So that was my first time ever like really having experience of like white life.

Like, you know, full white family.

The dad has a job.

The mom takes him to school.

Oh, your dad remarried?

No.

Yeah, he did remarry.

Got it.

But, you know, my dad still was dealing with alcoholism.

So, you know, I moved in.

It was a culture shock, especially I'm a city kid, too.

So I show up in the suburbs wearing like an Adidas track suit and a gold rope chain.

And like, so like all the white kids hate, all the white dudes hated me.

All the white girls thought I was MTV.

Yeah.

Right.

So.

So yeah, I moved out there and started kind of realizing that life I still was doing crime because now I see where I can get even more money out here.

But a turning point, two turning points in my life that changed the trajectory of my whole entire life.

One was with my dad and one was with being a criminal.

The criminal one was

at 19 years old, me and my friends were going to rob a bank.

We staked it out for two weeks.

It was a day or two before we were actually going to do the job that

Something hit me that was like, what the fuck am I doing, man?

Like, if I get pinched, my life is over.

i'm going to jail so i told my buddies i'm not going to do this they ended up doing it and getting away with it oh wow yeah a bank yeah um yeah have you ever seen the town it's kind of a boston thing to do really

so um

yeah so yeah yeah i know you're young so you don't know much about boston but yeah especially back in the 80s and even even in the comments okay um

So

it was the first time I always was an overachiever and a a workaholic.

So, you know, I was always making beats.

I was always working on music and always doing odd jobs.

I always like worked at warehouses, moving companies, you know, mattress places, stuff like that.

But this was like, man, I got to get my shit together.

Cause at this point, I also didn't have, I was homeless.

So, you know, there was one night, for instance,

I had a beat up Chevy Blazer.

It was my car.

And

I parked in the woods on a winter night and I had no heat and it was so fucking cold.

Like I was literally laying on these leather seats and I just was like, yeah, I'm just gonna, I'll probably just die tonight.

Holy crap.

Like it just came down to that.

Didn't

and woke up the next day and got a newspaper.

You know what those are?

Yeah.

My dad used to write them.

Okay, cool.

Got a newspaper and in the back.

is where you would see where jobs were.

And

UPS was hiring.

Shut out to Bismarck.

So I got a job at UPS, and that was my first taste of becoming a killer at work.

So I went there and now this is my life.

Remember the story of doing the radio?

Yeah.

So prior to the radio thing,

I had this job.

And I would work from three to seven loading trucks.

A.M.?

Yeah.

Wow.

I got so good at my job that, well, and and anyone from UPS that's listening will know what I'm talking about.

The conveyor belts that the packages come down that you got to put in the back of the trucks.

Really good employees that were there for a while would get up to three trucks.

I was so good, they built an island that conveyed to an island with six trucks that I would load and I would train new employees.

Wow.

Right.

So I got so good that like regional managers would be like, Sparks, punch in, and we'd go golfing.

If I ended up hurting my spine, had spinal surgery and couldn't do hard labor anymore.

But had I not, I would probably be the CEO of all of UPS right now.

Holy crap.

So I would work from three to seven loading trucks.

Then eight to 12, I would deliver next day airs, which is the overnight packages.

Then I would fly to another town and I would deliver a truck papers from one to four.

Jeez.

Then I'd go home, eat, and then I would make beats and produce for local rappers from like six to 11 at night.

So you're working like 20 hours a day.

That was my, that's how I built my life.

Wow.

Right.

So that's, that's how I got the drive to even when I started doing the radio and doing all those things.

So, you know, even like you back in 2018 doing the jerseys, like people hear about you now, they're like, where'd this guy come from?

Do you know what I'm saying?

How come he's got a huge podcast?

Well, fucking dude, if you paid attention to me for the past six years, you'd see what I was doing and why I deserve to be here now.

Right.

So it's like, it's that, what people don't see.

And it's not just the work, it's the makeup of who you are as a human being that gets you to where you got to be.

How you communicate, how you network, how you follow up, how you treat people, how you make people feel is much bigger than even just the actual

sign, the marketing, the actual doing the actual job.

All that stuff is equally, if not even more important, than just having a good skill at doing something.

You can be a great podcaster, but if you're a shithead, that word's going to get around.

And people are going to be like, fuck that dude, Sean.

You know what I mean?

But they don't.

I've yet to hear that.

I've only heard, I love Sean.

He's a great guy.

Wow.

Because you obviously are doing those things.

That's cool.

Reputation is really important for me.

And I've known that since I was young.

I will lose money before I will let my reputation get dented.

I will not fight over money.

I will not fight over, like, I just won't do it.

It's like, look at man, if it's bothering you that much, then let's just do it your way.

Yeah, you know what I mean?

Yeah, relationships are everything.

You can have that.

And these days with social media, you really can't be doing bad business because that will get around fast.

Yeah, it is.

But ironically, we're in a day and age where like

assholishness has been so normalized

that, like, people get away with it every single day and still want to be your friend.

Right.

And, you know, people like me that come from the school of like, nah, if you're a dick, I ain't fucking with you.

Right.

Right.

Like, that's not today's day.

If you've got followers and money, I don't care how much of a dick you are, I'll still be down with you.

I'll still come to your event.

I'll still speak at your thing.

I'll still have you on my show.

I'll still hang out with you and take pictures.

I won't.

You know what I mean?

Because I have integrity.

For sure.

And I honor integrity.

Do you know what what I'm saying?

I don't honor people that are not honorable.

I agree.

Unfortunately, some people get followers and their ego just gets a little too big.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, we're blinded by integrity with followers.

It's so irrelevant.

Like, I don't care.

You've seen some of the guests I've had and they have 50 followers.

Like, I really don't care.

You know, I think everyone has a message.

Yeah, they do.

Yeah.

People put them on a pedestal, but it's kind of weird to me.

Yeah.

I mean, but it's the end of it's the, it's the world we're in.

Like, I'm, I'm flabbergasted at how many times, like, you know, I'm like, what the?

Like, I know that person.

I know they're not good.

They're actually rotten to the core.

Right.

But then you see other people that are just like, oh, man, oh, because they just want to be associated and rub up next to whatever clout or celebrity they have.

Dude, if you want that, then just build it on your own.

You have.

I have.

There's plenty of other people that have built a reputation and built off of their own work,

their own integrity, right?

Absolutely.

So, you know, that's that's what I'm, I never needed anybody to help uplift me.

I've never needed to lean on another brand, another company, another person to make me become who I am.

In fact, I built myself to become so reputable and respected that I, in fact, uplift other things when I get involved with it.

Yeah, because you give value first.

You're providing a platform to these artists to get eyeballs.

That, but it also comes with like,

really, Sean, the core core of everything starts with actually giving a shit.

Yeah.

Right.

And it just starts with like actually caring, right?

Not just about how much money we're going to make, not just about how many likes I'm going to get for this, giving a shit about the people, right?

Helping other people, knowing what they feel, what they need to feel, what they don't want to feel, right?

And it really just everything I've ever built comes from care.

Like, I won't get involved with something just because there's a lot of money.

Like, if it doesn't care and I don't care about it and I don't think that it's going to be a caring thing, then I don't care.

Wow.

So you've turned on some big names just because you didn't align.

Oh, yeah, dude.

Yeah.

That's impressive.

There's a lot of stuff.

Yeah.

Money doesn't move me.

People move me.

I'm the kind of guy that cries at commercials when like you see acts of kindness.

Oh, yeah.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Like when I go see a play and I literally cry at watching the lead singer of that play because I'm like, man.

I'm getting emotional now thinking about it.

Like I really, like, I'll get emotional at your story.

Like, I get emotional at people that really work hard and really care, and it works.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

And it's all working the way it's supposed to work for them, and they fucking deserve it.

I love it.

And, like, I'm watching Wicked.

I go to the Wicked play with my wife, and I'm watching the girl singing, and I start crying because I'm just thinking about what this girl had to go through and how much work she put in to get to be on that stage right there, and how proud her parents must be of her.

Like, what a remarkable thing.

And I think people are so worried about looking fresh and making a bunch of money and putting out content and getting followers that they forget about that's what they care about.

They forget about humanity.

They forget about integrity.

They forget about other people and their feelings because they're just focused on the fucking bottom line all the time.

And it's like, I've always

subscribed to the concept of if you build great,

Money chases great,

right?

Great doesn't chase money.

Right?

So if you focus and just build a great you to the core, everything about you is great.

Now, I'm not saying you're perfect.

No one's perfect.

You might make a mistake, but I'm saying like

everything I said, following up, treating people well, networking, saying what you mean, meaning what you say, sticking to your word, showing up, like that, that's building great.

Your numbers aren't great.

Number one podcast isn't great.

I sold my first, I accidentally my first company for $200 million.

Good job.

That doesn't make you great.

Because you know what?

I know a lot of shitty motherfuckers out here that got money

and they've exited a company.

They're not great.

That was a great turnout for that thing you did.

Doesn't make you great.

Yeah.

It's more about impact, right?

Helping people.

And that way of thinking for you in the music industry is very different from, I'd say, most labels.

So did you find yourself in a lot of arguments about the money?

Yeah.

I was thinking of a story I want to share, but I'm not sure if it should be a public story.

But yeah, so I won't say the person's name, but there was somebody that was signed to me.

Yeah.

And, you know, we had a 50-50 partnership.

And then

things became really successful for them.

And they went back, like most artists, go back and say, oh, man, I didn't know you owned 50%.

Then I was like, what do you mean?

We had lawyers go over this.

We talked about it.

Like, you know, it's what, this is what the deal was.

Oh, man, this, I feel like you're taking advantage.

I was like, I don't want you to feel that way because I'm certainly not taking advantage of you.

So if you feel that way, that is a real feeling.

It's not real based off of the scenario.

Nevertheless, it's a real feeling that you have.

So how do I now help address your real feeling and make it not be what you feel right now?

That is how I approach things.

It's not like, too bad, bro.

You should have did, you should have known.

The lawyers did it.

The thing is, like, everybody doesn't understand everything.

So

instead, we're like, how about this?

I'm going to figure out a scenario to make you not feel that way so that we both still win, but you feel better about this.

And I did that.

Released him from that contract, created a new contract where I went and did another deal where I didn't own anything of him anymore.

I did it with another partner that we had one percentage that we took from this.

And now three people were winning.

And he was getting more than what he would have got had I not done that.

I don't know anybody that would say, yeah, I'm going to pass on these guaranteed millions that I got right now for maybe millions in the future.

But I care more about doing right by people and doing the right thing.

And guess what?

If I didn't do that, this person's still a superstar.

For the rest of his life, he'd probably say, fuck Clinton Sparks, man.

He put me in a shitty fucking deal.

You know how many people would think of Clinton Sparks of putting people in shitty deals from now on?

Guess what he says now?

I love Clinton Sparks.

He's the greatest guy.

I wouldn't be who I am if it wasn't for him.

Wow.

Because I made that decision.

And that being said is worth more than the money I would have made.

Wow.

Because stuff like that being said is going to make me more money.

Yeah, lead to more clients, right?

Yeah.

And you see a lot of managers have disputes with their talent.

There's been a couple big ones recently.

Right.

So happens all the time.

Dude, we got a lot of similarities.

My dad was an alcoholic, too.

Oh, yeah.

And I think that could have gone one or two ways because he drank a 30-pack of beer a day and would always

offer me to drink.

And I just turned it down.

But that could have gone bad at that point.

What made you turn it down?

I don't know.

It wasn't like a set thing.

I just wasn't really into drinking, you know?

You know why I never drank?

Why?

I never drank.

I still don't drink.

Because I used to think to myself as a kid, who's that thirsty?

Who would sit and drink six Cokes?

You know what I mean?

Like, why are people drinking so many beers?

I don't get it.

Plus, the taste sucked.

Beer is disgusting.

Plus, like, plus,

yeah, seeing the smell, like, even when I go somewhere and I smell like Heinekens, I think of my alcoholic father, and I hate that feeling.

Yeah, so I never liked being around like at keg parties or like parties where everybody's drinking.

Plus, I always thought it was like so stupid that people will like start acting stupid.

Yeah, you know what I mean?

It's like, why would you want to put yourself in a position where now you're vulnerable or you might do something wrong?

It just doesn't make sense.

It's like

swimming with sharks.

For real.

I used to go to the club sober and see drunk people.

It's just kind of disgusting just seeing them, you know?

Like,

if you know sharks will eat people, right?

Why are you swimming with sharks?

Why are you playing with fire?

It doesn't make any sense.

I just, I don't, I don't even go on cruises because it's like, I can do all the same things on land without the risk of drowning or hitting a glacier and going down like the Titanic.

I'm lowering my risk, guys.

It makes no sense.

Why are we doing this?

You ever get into drugs or weed or anything like that?

Never,

never been into drugs.

Of course, I puffed weed you know in my life but was never a weed head or anything never do drugs never drank never smoked cigarettes never drank coffee what uh yeah no coffee no so you're just all natural energy uh oh yeah yeah my energy and excitement enthusiasm is totally just because you know want to know where it comes from bro because i'm pumped about life

and i'm this isn't lip service i genuinely and people that have known me you can look at my facebook the same shit i say today i was saying 15 years ago well i'm not one of these guys now that are like let me show you how to have the level up in your life and

look what I've done.

Like, I was saying it on the process of me growing up or coming up.

2006, 2008, 2013, I'm on MySpace and I'm on Facebook and I'm saying, yo, man, here's da-da-da-da.

So I really genuinely wake up every day excited to be invited to the party called Life.

Yeah.

Because I know it's fucking limitless, man.

Like, let's just say I was totally focused on and I had a plan that I put together and designed to make something work.

And let's just say everything didn't work.

The average person would fall apart and deflate and feel like they failed.

You know how many more fucking things there are to do in the world and life?

Like, it didn't work.

Let's keep it moving.

There's other things we can do now.

You want to know why?

Because I built a dope me.

So whatever I do now is going to be dope.

If that didn't work out, I'll do something else dope.

I'm not concerned that that was my only dope like bullet.

And if it didn't like hit, what am I going to do now?

And again, that goes back to what I was saying.

When you build yourself by design and not by circumstance, then you've built the you that you know is going to be able to do all the things that you need to be able to do.

Yeah.

Some people are so scared of failure, they just never get into it at all, their whole lives.

I jump in, man.

The business I'm doing right now is the most ambitious thing I've ever gotten involved with.

And, you know,

for sure can be a mega billion dollar business that I'm building.

And the reason why I'm so sure of it is because of all that I've been through, all the work that I put in, all the other companies that I've built and knew that I was the sauce on why certain things happened.

And then when I left, it didn't work the same way anymore.

So I've realized the formula, as I said earlier, to win, repeat, win, repeat, win, repeat.

And the problem is, when most people, to the point of if one thing doesn't work, is they think that they only know how to do that thing without realizing everything is the same.

Everything's the same.

So what I've learned in the music industry, I can also apply to real estate.

I can apply to financial industries.

I can apply to starting an e-commerce company.

Everything's the same.

Just has different jargon and different positions.

But everything, the foundation of everything is the same.

So when you build a solid you and then understand that everything's the same,

you can do anything.

You can conquer and dominate anything

because you understand that.

And then when you know how to, when care about people and doing the right thing and understanding people, you put those three things on a blender.

That's the recipe to win, repeat, win, repeat, win, repeat.

Absolutely.

Yeah, I've done it on a smaller scale compared to you, but I've done a few different industries now.

And it's the same thing.

Same thing, same process.

Energy and numbers.

Same skill to negotiate, same skill to understand who the audience is, same skill to understand marketing, same skill of customer service, same skill of hiring the right people, same skill of manufacturing, or dealing with whatever industry it is.

You got to deal with people that put the things together.

It's all the same.

So once you just understand, because I'll hear people say,

oh, I don't understand gaming, for instance.

I don't game.

Do you understand business?

Sure.

Do you understand marketing?

Yes.

Do you understand infrastructure and finances and accounting?

Yes.

Doesn't matter.

You don't have to be a gamer to be in the business of gaming.

You don't have to be an actor to be in the movie making business.

You don't have to be a rapper to be in the music business, just like you don't have to be a gamer to be in the gaming business.

So when I'm building a massive gaming entertainment conglomerate and I'm telling someone, you need to get involved with this, here's why, and I hear, well, I'm not a gamer.

I don't know much about gaming.

It's disheartening that they give themselves a roadblock.

to becoming part of something that is the fastest growing form of entertainment in the world, is on track to make over $500 billion in 2027, is virtually untapped in pop culture mainstream in the streets.

And you're going to say, I just don't understand it.

Yeah.

Aren't you in the business of fucking understanding shit?

How did you build this business?

You understood it when you were born?

No.

Or did you learn it?

You learned it.

Why?

Because you thought there was money there.

Yep.

I just told you how much money's here.

You don't think it's worth learning this?

You know what I'm saying?

Yeah, absolutely.

So you're optimistic about gaming, though, because a lot of esports organizations have been failing recently.

The reason

that people think that gaming might not be the place to invest or be a part of is because of what you just said.

Esports and gaming are two separate things,

but people lump them as one because gaming,

you can't, you're playing games in esports.

But that is a very niche audience.

for hardcore endemic gamers that grind out all day, every day, that hope to be on an esports org, that then hope to be selected to be in a closed league like League of Legends or Call of Duty, that has to pay millions to be in that league.

Gaming is the rest of the world.

Billions of people game from Candy Crush to Street Fighter to Call of Duty to Fortnite to Pac-Man.

Gaming.

That's where all the money is.

That's where all the opportunity is.

But everybody's, there was an esport bubble that busted.

So now you got Wall Street and you got brands and you got all the investors that are like, oh, yeah, I tried that.

It didn't work out because you tried it in the wrong way.

You went after the wrong thing that wasn't proven to work.

That's not where the money is.

And that's why, to your point, Riot, Microsoft, 100 Thieves, all these people have laid people off.

People have lost their shirt investing in esports.

Look, I helped raise $40 million at FaZe Clan when I was there.

So, you know, I know that everybody was hyped off the esports bubble, but like, I wasn't selling it as esports, even though FaZe Clan was, you know, dominating in esports.

I never sold it as esports.

I sold it as a lifestyle brand.

And that's what I was getting people to invest in.

You know, it didn't end up working out the way that we all hoped it would.

And I left because I knew it wasn't going to work out because of who was running it.

But, you know, and then I left and started another esports organization to help make that the fastest growing, most diverse and inclusive esports org in the world.

Because it all comes down to caring.

It all comes down to understanding culture.

It all comes down to being able to forecast trends and how to plug in different like industries and cultures into this one thing.

When I was at FaZe Clan, which I'm sure you're familiar with.

So they were just, they were a bunch of popular kids online for trick shooting and Call of Duty.

They had no business model.

They had no revenue drivers.

We went there.

I brought Offset, Pitbull, Swaley, Yogati, DJ Paul, Ray J, Troy Carter.

We brought everything from Jimmy Iveen, NFL, Champion, Beats by Dre.

We brought culture to gaming, which then in turn made them, the founders were cool too, right?

But like, this is what made them the cultural juggernaut that allowed them to go on to a $2 billion IPO.

It was culture.

It's why no other esports org has been able to do anything close to that.

You know, when you looked at 100 Thieves, they were just basically following our model.

Do you know what I mean?

So it's like, but it didn't work because you also have to have authenticity.

You can't stand for culture if you never stood in culture.

So you can't sit there and say, oh, we're this in culture.

We want to do this cactus jack collab.

We want to, you know, say Drake's down with us.

And da-da-da.

It's like, man, Drake don't know you.

And by the way, this isn't a shot.

I'm just saying, generally speaking, if you don't know how to talk to Drake, if you don't know what Drake cares about, if you don't know where Drake came from or understand his background, you don't understand what he feels and what he needs, you ain't doing business with Drake.

Do you know what I'm saying?

So it's like, I'm just using him as an example.

He gets pitched thousands of opportunities.

Totally.

And it's all very transactional.

And that's what most of the world is.

It's built off some kind of transactional action.

When you make it real and authentic and you understand culture.

And by the way, there's going to be some people that watch this that weren't born in culture.

So they don't understand it the same way, say I would, right?

Well, then your job is to find someone like me that does understand it and then shut up and listen to them.

Right?

Most people don't do that.

They go and they hire someone that can help them with culture or help them do things and they don't listen because in their mind, I built this other company before.

I know what I'm talking about.

What are you going to tell me?

That makes no sense.

It didn't, that's not how I built my other company.

And it's like, well, we're not fucking talking about your other company.

We're talking about now and this, in this specific thing, the thing that I specialize in, the reason why you hired me, right?

So even my position, I've been hired by many companies to consult them and they didn't listen to the most brilliant ideas that would have helped skyrocket their companies because they were unfamiliar with the language that I was speaking, which is culture.

That makes sense.

Wow.

Dude, it's been really fun getting to know you, man.

Anything else you want to promote or close off with?

No, I wasn't really here to promote anything.

I was just here to have a conversation with you, support you, love what you're doing.

And when you hit me and said to come on, I was like, yeah, just to be honest, I didn't even know how successful your podcast was.

You were just cool.

Like I came here just because I thought you were dope.

Wow, I appreciate that.

Yeah.

And then people were like, oh, dude, that podcast is big.

And I was like, because I didn't even know, to be honest, I didn't know when I seen your page, I was like, 11 million followers.

How the fuck does this guy have 11 million followers?

Right.

And like, and then so when I did some research and I was just like, oh, this dude's dope, right?

And then people started telling me about your podcast after you had already asked him to be on it.

So like, so you know, this wasn't here because of the success of you, of your company.

It was the success of you.

Wow.

I fucked with you.

I really appreciate that.

Coming from you, that holds a lot of weight, man.

So thank you so much.

Having me on holds a lot of weight.

Thank you.

I can't wait to see what you do in the gaming space.

Well, it's coming soon.

I'll tell you, I am building the most exciting, culturally impacting entertainment empire around gaming right now.

That has never been done and nobody else can do it.

And me and my team are going to do it.

And it's going to change the entire industry from gaming to esports.

It's going to uplift esports and gaming.

It's going to change things for sports, music, fashion, entertainment all around.

And I can't wait till you hear about it and I'm able to talk about it publicly.

But there's a lot of big dogs involved with this, and I'm excited.

Love it, man.

We'll link your Instagram below.

Thanks for coming on.

Thanks, buddy.

Appreciate it.

High five.

High five.

Yeah, let's do it.

All right.

See you guys next time.