The Ugly Truth About Seed Oils: What They Don’t Want You to Know I Max Lugavere DSH #485

is some evidence that, for example, there was a very small study that showed that when people reduced their intake of, you know, these hyalinoleic acid seed oils, that they saw a reduction in migraine frequency, which is, you know, a neuroinflammatory, neurovascular can be really painful.

You know, I myself am an occasional migraine sufferer.

I think these oils, you're definitely better off avoiding them, even though even that's a controversial statement to say on social media.

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All right, guys, Max Lugavier here today.

We got him in Vegas.

What up?

From LA, man.

What you out here for?

Well, actually, my part of my family, ultimately, my entire family is moving.

to Vegas, believe it or not.

Save on state tax, baby.

Save on state tax.

And my family, we like warm weather.

We like kind of the cosmopolitan vibe.

And I live in Los Angeles, so it's a city that's like close to L.A.

in close proximity to where I am.

So yeah, I'm going to be spending more time out here.

I'm excited.

Yeah, I just came back from L.A.

I love how big people are on health out there.

I went to a wellness center.

It was really fun.

That's cool.

Yeah, there's not many of those out here.

Interesting.

I feel like it's kind of bubbling up.

Like, I see, you know, there's some great gyms, for example.

Lifetime.

Yeah.

Dragons Blade.

Yeah.

There was a gym that I was, it was like a members-only gym in Summerlin that I got to check out.

Oh, is that Sean Frites' gym?

I don't know.

Project Well-Being.

I don't know.

It was pretty sick, though.

It had a hyperbaric oxygen chamber in it.

Yeah, maybe.

And also, I don't know if you know Stan Efferding.

He lives out here.

No.

There's a bunch of cool people in the fitness space that live out here, but it's, I guess, a little bit dispersed.

You know, not like L.A.

where...

you know, everything feels a lot more

centralized.

It's spread out out here.

It took me a year to find my group of people.

I'd say.

Interesting.

Everyone's hiding.

Well, I like it.

I like Vegas a lot.

Vegas is cool.

Yeah, I mean, no state tax.

Food's good.

Food's great.

Close to LA.

Yeah.

I ate at this epic Peruvian restaurant last night called Moya, I think it's called.

I got to remember that.

Very clearly established in what used to be a strip club.

Clearly.

That sounds like Vegas.

Very Vegas, but like some of the best, if not the best, Peruvian food I've ever had.

I'm a huge Ceviche fan.

And yeah, it was like 10 out of 10.

It was amazing.

But the fact that the food was like so good, like world-class quality food

in this like clearly gutted strip club, it was just it was kind of funny.

It's exciting.

Do you struggle eating out because you're so healthy?

No, because I'm not like obsessed, you know?

I do my best, but because I travel a lot, like it would, I think I would be a lot more stressed if

I were obsessed, you know, but I think like once you actually have the knowledge base of how to tweak certain things and assess a menu, it becomes a lot easier.

Yeah.

You know, and there's a lot of chains now, like restaurants, like I'm a huge fast casual fan same that are really um doing a lot to to you know turn the tide in the restaurant industry and and and and

you know institute healthier um a healthier way of doing things like i have no commercial affiliation with uh sweet green for example but sweet green is a pretty common like salad chain and they just committed to not cooking any of their proteins in industrially refined seed oils and they now have grass-fed beef on the menu which i think is incredible there's a place called true food kitchen which is actually i think you have one of those in vegas yeah i've been to the one here.

Yeah, it's great.

10 out of 10.

Like, no, you know, they don't use any of these ultra-refined seed oils.

All their food is regeneratively sourced, at least to the, you know, according to what I've heard and read about the place.

So, yeah, I think it's like, it's fairly easy at this point.

But even if I, like, even if I have to eat at Chipotle or something, it's not, you know, I mean, you can still make a healthy dish.

Well, they actually announced they're getting away from seed oils eventually, too.

Interesting.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, seed oils are not the smoking gun.

I think like a lot of people have made, there's, you know, everybody's talking about them these days.

And I don't think that they are the primary thing to focus your attention on.

Yeah.

But I do think, you know, insofar as I can, you know, reduce my intake of these highly refined, bleached, and deodorized, you know, novel fats and,

you know, have extra virgin olive oil, for example, be the primary oil in my diet if I'm consuming any oil at all.

I mean, there's really no, there's no biological need to ingest oil at any point.

I mean, there's really good evidence on extra virgin olive oil from a cardiometabolic brain health standpoint.

But yeah,

you don't need to consume oil.

Yeah.

Have you tried Brian Johnson's olive oil yet?

I have not.

I have not.

I just have good things, yeah.

Yeah, it's thicker than I'd say most I've tried.

Interesting.

Yeah.

I don't know what he did differently, but it's good.

Yeah.

I mean, it's not hard to find really high-quality extra virgin olive oil.

So, I mean, I don't know what he's selling it for for or the claims that he's made, but

I buy generally

organic extra virgin olive oil.

And I don't have a particularly favorite brand that I go to because I actually think one of the interesting things about developing

a palate and developing a culinary skill set is to try different brands.

and to

regularly try and get a sense for how to taste extra virgin olive oil and to appreciate

its differences brand to brand.

Yeah, yeah i use that coconut oil avocado oil i try to avoid any other seed oils that's good yeah i think that's smart yeah i think that's smart there's you know the data on seed oils is equivocal the research is i think

not the best quality research and mechanistically there is you know a signal of at least the potential of harm we know that they're novel fats we haven't you know they're

they

essentially first appeared in the human food supply, you know, only about 100 years ago.

We know that the processing and

their utilization in the restaurant industry, primarily, you know, in the in the form of fried foods, generates some really noxious compounds like aldehydes and things like that.

And

yeah, there's just, I don't know why anybody would choose to use them, you know, obviously as a part of

margin, yeah, because they're dirt cheap to produce.

Yeah.

But we actually, we don't have any long-term data on what these oils are doing to tissues in the body like brain, which is a major concern for me.

There is some evidence that, for example, there was a very small study that showed that when people reduced their intake of

these hyalinoleic acid seed oils, that they saw a reduction in migraine frequency,

which is a neuroinflammatory, neurovascular

event.

And obviously, it's very,

it's, you know, really, can be really painful.

You know, I myself am an occasional migraine sufferer.

So,

yeah, so

I think these oils, you're definitely better off avoiding them, even though even that's a controversial statement to say on social media.

You know, I think you're definitely better off

avoiding them with the

acknowledgement that they're not the sole problem.

Like if you're hyper-fixating on them,

I don't think there's any need to do that.

But yeah.

That's just my stance.

I know you're big on brain health.

You talk about it a lot.

I actually just got a brain scan last week.

Oh my God.

Yeah.

What kind of brain scan?

It was at Dr.

Amon's clinic.

Oh, interesting.

Yeah, I don't know the name of the type, but it was fascinating to see what my brain looked like.

How How did it look?

Not as good as I hoped.

At least you were able to confirm that you have a brain.

That's a good thing.

Yeah, at least there was something there, right?

No, but I had some permanent brain damage.

He said likely chance of ADHD, possibly autism, and childhood trauma.

See, I don't know how evidence-based

that scan is for those kinds of diagnoses.

I'm not, you know.

Yeah, he wouldn't diagnose it, but he said likely, like, you know what I mean?

But like, if you're not, if you don't have issues with attention, like, how,

could, could that kind of suggestion actually be harmful?

Possibly.

I would say I do because they tried telling me in fourth grade I had ADHD also.

So I might actually have that one, but who knows?

There's a specific test, I'm sure, to take.

I think that's a spectrum.

I think we all have a bit of

attention

difficulty, particularly today.

You take your average child and you feed them the

ultra-processed standard American diet.

Your average child today, about 70% of the calories that they're consuming come from ultra-processed foods.

They're drinking sugar-sweetened beverages left and right.

And we ask them to sit still in a classroom for nine hours a day.

And when they're unable to do that, we diagnose them with ADD and we throw Adderall and Ritalin at them.

And I think that's a huge problem.

I think I've always had subclinical ADD, ADHD.

It's always been really difficult for me to get through books

unless I'm...

Like my brain is very binary.

I'm either like obsessed with something or I'm not interested at all.

I can't sit still for five minutes focusing on it.

That does sound like ADD.

Yeah, yeah, but I was never diagnosed.

It's just, it's led to really mediocre academic performance for me because I would excel in the classes that I was interested in.

You know, I'd get like A's in the classes that I was interested in, like biology, chemistry, things like that.

But then I would get D's in like the quote-unquote easy classes that everybody took to get the easy A's.

And so it led for me academically to a GPA that was always like really mediocre.

And it's part of the reason why I didn't go into like medicine because I just knew that I wouldn't be competitive just because of my overall academic performance.

You need like a 4-2 to be competitive in medicine.

Yeah, there you go.

Crazy.

Which is fine for me.

I ended up realizing that I'm creative and a storyteller and

all good.

Yeah.

It's cool to study the root cause of health, which is what you're doing.

Medicine is just a temporary fix.

Yeah.

Well, yeah.

I mean, I think like medicine is definitely important when you have an acute issue.

You know, like if I break a bone or if I need a tumor cut out, God forbid, you know, I'm going to a Western trained physician.

But when it comes to these kinds of chronic conditions, these non-communicable chronic conditions now, which are saddling society, 60%, if not more, of people today will die due to one of these kinds of conditions that were relatively rare in

antiquity.

I think Western medicine is really poorly adapted to

adequately address those kinds of conditions.

These are conditions that are largely lifestyle mediated.

And that's where I think paying attention to nutrition, to diet, to lifestyle is super important.

And people are, you know, typically uneducated on those topics.

Yeah.

And as

somebody who has seen up close and personal, like real chronic illness

and who has the ability to reach people, I've sort of realized that it's my life's purpose in a way to help people.

you know, better separate, better understand the difference between fact and fiction online today with regards to nutrition.

There's a lot of competing voices.

There's a lot of, you know, misinformation, disinformation,

and yeah, and I think it's a big problem.

Yeah, and you've done a lot of research into Alzheimer's, right?

Yeah, so brain health primarily,

although underneath that, that umbrella of brain health, you know, you obviously have cardiovascular health.

It's very important, metabolic health, body composition, fitness, all that stuff plays a, you know, influences the brain.

But I became obsessed with this topic when my mom at a very young age developed a form of dementia called Lewy body dementia,

which is

a super rare niche form of dementia.

The most common form of dementia is Alzheimer's disease.

But Lewy body dementia is akin to having both Alzheimer's disease and Parkinson's disease.

Holy crap.

In terms of the symptoms.

Yeah.

And

that was really heartbreaking and traumatic to have to come to terms with that, the fact that my mom had this awful condition, and she developed it when she was still super young, very much in the prime of her life.

And that's what's led to me becoming obsessed with trying to understand all that I can about these topics, you know,

to help.

Initially, my mom passed away in 2018, but initially it was to see if there was anything from a dietary and lifestyle perspective that might exist for me to help her in a way that, you know, was maybe more effective than the drugs, which were minimally effective, if effective at all.

And then ultimately it became about prevention for myself, you know, because I now, I recognized that I now had this risk factor.

And then the more I would learn, the more I would feel compelled to share what I was learning.

So with her, was it genetic or was it environment?

Did you find out?

It's very seldom the case that these conditions are genetic.

So with Alzheimer's disease, for example, only about 2% to 3% of cases are due to what are called deterministic genes.

So genes that

will directly determine a person's outcome.

And the term for that is early onset familial.

So it's again,

a very small minority of cases have this early onset gene, and that's a mutation.

So that's a genetic mutation, like an error in your genome that will directly essentially cause Alzheimer's disease or a variant of Alzheimer's disease.

But for the majority of Alzheimer's sufferers,

That's due to late onset sporadic Alzheimer's disease, which is you know influenced to some degree by genetic risk factors.

But again, those aren't genes that are deterministic.

It's really about the interaction between a person's genes and the environment in which they live.

The food environment,

the environment with regard to activity levels, exposure to environmental toxins, and the like.

And so what that suggests, and especially knowing that these conditions begin decades prior to the first symptom, that presents a window of opportunity, a window to intervene and to do things differently, do things that might reduce your risk, for example.

And then with Parkinson's disease, which is now the fastest growing brain disease.

very low heritability.

So, Parkinson's disease, you know, there's a lot less research, but there's now this, I think, really compelling and

dare I say, even convincing signal in the literature that Parkinson's disease is largely driven by exposure to environmental toxins.

Whether we're talking occupational exposure to certain pesticides like paraquat or rhodinone or compounds that are still today used in,

you know, for industrial applications like degreasing metal,

dry cleaning, there are compounds like trichloroethylene or TCE, or it's, you know, one of its replacement chemicals, PCE,

perchloroethylene, which are, which have been shown, you know, to be associated with dramatically increased risk when exposed occupationally to

Parkinson's disease.

And some of these chemicals are actually used to create Parkinson's disease in animal models.

Oh my God.

Yeah.

And humans are just being like exposed to them.

It's in our house or where is it?

It can be.

Yeah.

So people that live close to dry cleaners that are still using these compounds are being exposed to this compound.

Holy crap.

Yeah.

TCE and PCE because they're volatile organic compounds.

They readily evaporate.

They can easily infiltrate groundwater, infiltrate the air.

They can get sequestered and stored in fatty foods.

So they've shown that people who live near dry cleaners that are still using this compound, their butter in their fridge actually has, you know, can be contaminated by TCE.

Dang.

Yeah,

it's a fascinating topic, and I owe a lot of what I know about it, actually, to a researcher and neurologist at the University of Rochester named Ray Dorsey, who's published a ton on this and is doing incredible advocacy work.

But because my mom had a condition that actually had more in common with Parkinson's disease than Alzheimer's, this Lewy body dementia complex is a Parkinsonian condition.

This has obviously become something of great concern to me.

Our exposure to these kinds of compounds, which are also, by the way, we're now starting to see that air pollution

is potentially causal with regards to Alzheimer's disease as well.

So living in the city.

Living in a city with very polluted air.

Yeah.

As of 2020, it was recognized by the Lancet actually as being one of the

dozen of modifiable risk factors for Alzheimer's disease and other forms of dementia.

Air pollution, exposure to dementia.

Yeah, I'd be curious the rates of babies that are born with it in like a New York City versus the Southwest or something rural.

Yeah.

Well, they've shown, I mean, I was born in New York City and my mom, you know, was a born and bred New Yorker, but they've shown in really polluted parts of the world, like in Mexico City, that, you know, you take people that have, you know, unfortunately died across the age, you know, spectrum, and even in children, like they've, they've shown that there is pathology that looks a lot like Alzheimer's disease

in the brains of like children that are that are exposed to, you know, to very high levels of air pollution.

That's scary.

Yeah, it is scary.

You got to make sure that your air is clean.

So like PM 2.5,

this is a form of fine particulate matter.

It's a form of air pollution.

Has been shown to literally get through the blood-brain barrier through our, you know, through our nose

when we inhale it and aggregate in the brain and,

you know, initiate these pathological changes that we associate with late-onset Alzheimer's disease.

I mean, it's terrifying, but it just goes to show you how, you know, toxic in many ways the modern world has become.

And I don't like to lead with fear, but I think it's important to be aware of all this stuff.

Being in a, in a highly polluted area, it doesn't just make it difficult to breathe.

You know,

it has a physiologic effect on the body, on the cardiovascular system,

on the brain.

And that's why we have to

urge for policy changes and for, you know, just this greater awareness

to

help clean things up.

That's super concerning.

As someone who wants to have kids one day, that's something to be noted, you know, where I want to have them.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's a, I mean, air pollution is a huge problem, unfortunately.

Studies in China have suggested that air pollution actually does have an impact on the IQ of children.

Wow.

Yeah.

I mean, there's confounding variables there because, you know, a densely, highly polluted region might also have, you know, higher levels of, you know, this could be potentially like a food desert, for example, where you have a lot more fast food, you have a lot more,

so more research

needs to be done.

Air pollution obviously probably

co-variates

with different other unfortunate socioeconomic aspects that are also

tend to lead to higher risk for certain conditions and the like.

But mechanistically, there's plausibility there.

We see that air pollution is not good for our health.

I remember in Beijing during the Olympics, they made it rain because it was so polluted.

Do you remember that?

No.

2008.

They made it rain?

Yeah, they forced cloud seeding.

Yeah, they did cloud seating or whatever.

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But now I don't even know if that would work because there's glyphosate in the rain, 60% of rain.

So

I don't even know if that would work these days.

Yeah, I mean, I'm not, you know, I don't eat everything organic.

I'm not like a, you know, obsessed in that way, but I do think that, you know, there have been, I practice what's called the precautionary principle.

There have been way too many times throughout history where, you know, a new chemical or product has been foisted, you know, onto the American public only later, decades later, sometimes, found to be harmful.

And this is continually happening.

Like, this wasn't just like a one-time incident.

Like, we used to put lead in paint.

We used to build buildings with asbestos, right?

We used to have a a food supply that was saturated with partially hydrogenated fats, which are trans fats, man-made trans fats, which we know are poisonous to the cardiovascular system, to the brain.

There have been numerous cases.

There was just recently an article that came out.

I didn't read the article, but I'm generally familiar with the fact that, you know, a lot of these companies, for example, companies that produce forever chemicals like PFAS,

they will routinely do what they can to obfuscate the science surrounding how harmful these chemicals are.

Wow.

There's evidence that the,

I mentioned Paraquat, which is one of these herbicides that is likely causal with regards to Parkinson's disease,

you know, knew for decades that this compound

was toxic to the brain

and built essentially a SWAT team of scientists to

obscure that data.

And they essentially lied about it.

And so, yeah, we know where money is involved, especially at the scale that it's involved with

these kinds of agrochemicals,

that truth is, you know, is often

an afterthought.

Yeah.

It's scary because I am a fan of capitalism, but once it affects other people's health, that's kind of where I draw the line.

100%.

I'm a fan of capitalism, too.

I'm a capitalist, but

I think the

one of the roles that all governments should have is to protect citizens from harm, physical harm.

It's great that we have cops that if somebody were to break into my house and assault a family member,

that I can call the police and get that person arrested.

Unless you're in L.A.

Unless you're in L.A.

Yes.

Seemingly, yeah.

They're not coming for that.

No.

No, but I think that that, you know, insofar as these companies are actually like doing harm and lying, I think that's a big problem.

Yeah.

And like, you know, taking steps to hide the truth, you know?

Yeah, that's too far.

Yeah.

And that's the thing, though, because we think these government agencies are protecting us.

But when you look at the FDA and you look at everything going on with the supplement industry right now, they're finding heavy metals and all these supplements.

They're not really protecting the supplement industry at all.

No, I mean, you know,

it's a problem.

And

we don't live in a perfect world.

So I think it's important to kind of acknowledge that, like, you know, this idea of perfection doesn't exist.

So how can we take stock and, you know, do what we can to,

you know, to reduce our exposures and to just to do the best we can, right?

Yep.

Because I think if you're trying to be perfect and to try to, and you're trying to avoid all potential exposures today,

it's impossible.

It's impossible.

You're going to drive yourself nuts.

And stress has a negative downstream health impact as well,

chronic stress.

So

I think you just have to do the best that you can.

And, you know, you can't feel bad about your choices and your situation.

You just have to like always strive to be a little bit better tomorrow than you were today.

And,

you know, again, like I eat out a fairly regular basis due to my life circumstances, which require me to travel, you know, a lot.

I know that, you know, for example, organic can be more expensive.

Organic isn't perfect.

And, you know, foods that are, things that are natural aren't always, you know, the answer either because some of the most toxic chemicals on earth are quote unquote natural.

But it's important to be aware that, you know, synthetic compounds, compounds, industrially produced creations, like if you get sick one day before the data has fully come out, you know, the science has settled, so to speak, you know, like a company like Bayer, you know, which now owns Monsanto, like they're not going to have your back.

They don't have your back, right?

You've got to have your back.

Your doctor also isn't like, you know, again, doctors are amazing for acute care, but they're not there to provide wellness.

unto you, right?

Like wellness is something that like when you're pushing your shopping cart around the perimeter of the supermarket, avoiding the aisles, because that's where, you know, most of the ultra-processed

foods tend to be, like, that's wellness, you know, when you're negotiating with yourself to get off, get up off the couch and go to the gym or go for even a walk around your block, right?

If you've been sedentary all day, that's wellness.

I think it's really important for people to understand that and that those small changes actually do, when sustained, when made consistent,

have a huge impact.

Absolutely.

Over the long term.

Yeah, I only shop on the outside at grocery stores now.

Yeah, it's a kid.

I used to sprint through the aisles and yeah, most people don't know this, but grocery stores tend to be designed the same way.

Like the perimeters of the supermarket is where you have like the perishable food, and it's the aisles where you tend to find these like ultra-processed, boxed, bagged, packaged foods that we know are, you know, hyper-calorie-dense, they're hyper-palatable, so we don't tire of eating them.

They drive their own overconsumption, they're nutrient-poor, typically.

And ultra-processed foods are also a major gateway gateway by which people are now ingesting these

environmental toxicants.

Like phthalates.

Yeah.

Like

microplastics, PFAs.

Microplastics, PFAs, things like that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

By way of ultra-processed foods.

I didn't even think about that.

But yeah, there's plastic in the bags, like the bag of chips, right?

Yeah.

There was a study that just came out.

recently and it found that

for every 10 something like for every 10%

increment in ultra-processed foods that pregnant women were consuming, they were consuming about 14% higher levels of

one of the most

well-studied and harmful phthalates,

which is an endocrine disruptor.

Jeez.

Yeah.

I don't know if you've seen or read about any of Shauna Swan's work.

She was on Rogan a couple years ago.

Yeah.

I mean, she's done work and advocated for, you know, reducing our exposure to these compounds because they show in boys.

They're like having a feminizing effect on boys.

Jeez.

Yeah.

They reduce what's called the anogenital distance in boys.

There's this trend over time

that

boys are essentially becoming feminine, feminized, which, you know, that's just like a crude indicator of the effect that these chemicals are likely having on our physiology.

But what about all of the other unseen changes that are happening, the changes that are happening potentially to our brains?

You know, we just don't know.

Only time will tell.

It's a huge science experiment.

For real.

They just found out, I mean, there was this headline that I saw.

I didn't look into the study or anything like that, but like 100% of men today have microplastics in their balls.

I saw that.

Yeah, that's crazy.

That's crazy.

Almost 100 guys, too.

It was a pretty large pool.

We're seeing that we have microplastics now in our arteries.

Like

there are microplastics now in atheromas, which is where essentially like, you know, the occlusion of our arteries, that there's like a two to three-fold increased risk of cardiovascular mortality for people with higher levels of these like microplastics in their blood vessels.

It's crazy.

No, it's not.

It's not fear-mongering to like be talking about this stuff either.

It's real data.

I had a heart surgeon on.

He found it in a heart, microplastics, inside of a person's heart.

That's nuts.

I had to throw out all my polyester clothing, but who knows?

I probably already have it in my body.

Dude, we all do.

That's when you sweat and the polyester just gets in your bloodstream.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know about the poly, but I'm, you know, like, nothing would surprise me at this point, you know?

Yeah.

So I do my best.

You guys are drinking water of glass.

I think that's great.

You know, I mean, I still don't know, like, we don't know where the waters come from.

It's fine.

It's all you can't drive your, you can't drive yourself nuts, but it's like, you know, it's it's just the modern yeah things have just become so we've been led so far astray we have yeah miscarriage rates all-time high autism yeah men are there we're seeing a testosterone crisis in men yeah people coming out as gay all-time high and which there's a hormonal impact i mean it's or a hormonal there's a hormonal influence there right like in utero the environmental working group identified something like two i think it was 217 industrial chemicals in umbilical cord blood

Jeez.

And these are not just like, you know,

these are xenobiotic chemicals, chemicals that have no place in the human body, like byproducts of burning, of like the burning of plastics and coal and things like that.

Yeah.

And that's in the umbilical cord?

Yeah.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah.

The environmental working group.

217.

So all that's going in the baby while they're born.

Right.

So it's.

I think you have to do your best.

You know, you have to, you know, reduce your exposure to these kinds of industrial chemicals.

Eat a diet that is primarily comprised of whole foods.

You know, whole foods don't have extensive ingredients lists.

They are the ingredients.

And so basing your diet around those as best you can, I think that's crucially important.

I think sweating regularly, making sure that your digestion is on point, that

you're pooping regularly.

That's super important.

Nobody likes to talk about it, but like, you know, making sure that you're having regular bowel movements.

That's a major route of detoxification, that you're hydrating, that you're peeing, because one of the solutions to pollution is dilution so you're making sure that you're drinking like good clean water making sure that you're filtering your water you know

i think um you know potentially having an air purifier in your house can be beneficial we've seen that when looking at certain kinds of chemicals um that indoor air pollution can be way worse than outside air pollution really like the yeah the off-gassing of certain you know whether we're talking about furniture or the you know the chipping of paint and the ultimate like the the dust that's in the air is comprised of these like plastic compounds.

Holy crap, I need to buy those then.

Wet dusting is really important as opposed to dry dusting.

When you're dry dusting, you're just redistributing the dust, whereas wet dusting or dusting with like a damp paper towel or vacuuming, all really effective at reducing, you know,

exposure to these, to these toxicants because you're sequestering them, you know, with like a damp cloth.

And then you, you either, you can like throw that cloth away or you wash it.

Yeah.

Um,

Those are effective ways of reducing your exposure to these kinds of pollutants in the air.

Wow.

Yeah, exercising and then eating a nutrient-dense diet that gives your body, because your body is resilient too, at the end of the day.

Like your body,

you're, you know, the flagship product of millennia of Darwinian evolution.

So like your, your body has a certain degree of like defense mechanisms in it, but you just have to make sure that you're eating foods that give your body the raw materials required to create these certain defense compounds, whether you're talking about like glutathione or the like.

So eating, you know, cruciferous vegetables.

I'm a big advocate of eating fruits and vegetables, which, you know, that in and of itself is a controversial statement today, it seems.

But yeah, eating fruits and vegetables, meat products, animal source foods, I think crucially important.

Yeah.

And yeah, it's just like, I guess start there.

Yeah, control what you can, man.

Control what you can.

Exactly.

Yeah, there's a lot of info online.

So I can see why people get overwhelmed.

But if you you just stick with that, I feel like that's most of it.

And then you could get extreme from there.

Yeah.

And again, like perfection doesn't exist.

So, you know, if 80% of the time you're like doing your best,

you know, and you drink out of your filtered water system at home or what have you, and you're drinking water out of glass or like you're eating primarily whole foods.

And then 20% of the time, like, you're traveling and you're drinking out of a plastic bot.

Like, I think that's better than nothing.

You know, and that's certainly how I live.

Like, again, I try not to

let this stuff drive me crazy.

And when I'm thirsty at an airport, I'll buy, you know, I buy water out of plastic.

Or if glass is available, I'll buy that, obviously.

But

that can be more expensive.

So you just want to be kind of cognizant of the, you know,

not majoring in the minors, majoring in the majors.

Yeah.

And doing the best you can most of the time.

Do you adopt any Eastern medicine practices?

I know a lot of it's not proven scientifically yet, but do you do anything there?

Not really, no.

I mean, there are certain like herbs that have been used in Eastern medicine that, you know, have been the focus of,

you know, like empirical scientific inquiry research.

And like, you know, turmeric, I'm a big fan of, you know, taking curcumin.

I take curcumin regularly.

There was a really interesting study that found that I have like chronic low back issues.

So

I thought this study was really interesting that found that two grams of curcumin phytosome, which is like a,

you know, curcumin formulation.

Curcumin is like one of the most well-studied components of turmeric.

Found that two grams of this curcumin extract was as effective for pain relief.

Small study, but as effective as one gram of acetaminophen.

Wow.

Yeah, which is like Tylenol or paracetamol.

And I thought that was a good thing.

That's crazy.

Yeah.

I need to look into that.

I got lower back pain too.

Yeah.

Who doesn't these days?

No, that's pretty crazy.

Especially if you like lift, you know, if you're a guy.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's the worst.

But, you know, I think you can manage it to some degree with a healthy diet, lifestyle.

Yeah.

For me, it's just being sedentary, sitting on my ass all day, you know?

Yeah.

I got it from like being an idiot and squatting improperly.

That's why I don't squat.

Yeah.

It's so easy to get injured.

Dude, you know, I know that I'm not like a, I don't, you know, I'm not like an exercise physiology expert or anything like that.

But I think that, you know, unless you really know how to squat properly and you have the biomechanics to lend itself to weighted back squats and deadlifts, I think you really have to be careful.

This is something that like people just see people, others doing, jack people on social media doing, and they go to their gym and they try it.

And it's, I think, a lot more dangerous than, especially today with like chronic sitting.

and unhealthy movement patterns,

you know, tight hip flexor and all the things that like, you know, so many of us inadvertently suffer from today, just going to the gym and like loading up a bar and doing a bat, I think that's actually a really dangerous thing.

For sure.

You know, I'm good on that, man.

Yeah.

I'm never squatting again.

I'm never deadlifting, too.

Yeah.

I mean, working with a, in my case, working with a personal, personal trainer, like a professional, would have been probably very helpful.

But, um, but yeah, with relatively low weight about 10 years ago, I screwed up my low back.

Damn.

And it still hurts 10 years.

Yeah.

I mean, I manage it.

It's positional and it's like, you know,

I'm most, most of the time, time fine.

Yeah.

But it's something that like, you know,

it'll never be the same.

Wow.

So I mean, you saw that with Lane Norton.

He's been getting injured for nine years and he finally broke his previous record.

Damn, that's pretty good.

Yeah.

There's different, there are different kinds of back injuries, you know, and I'm not like an expert on this, but I'm, you know, I have like disc desiccation.

I have like, you know, something called modic changes, which is like, you know, it's a problem.

So I've got to, like, I went, you know, my, my spine doctor is like, you really shouldn't run.

You shouldn't jump.

Like, you really want to, like, keep your,

like, no, you know, reduce the compression on that disc as much as you can.

And, um, but it's fine.

Like, I still work out.

I'm the best shape I've ever been in.

Okay.

And still hitting the sauna, too?

I still hit the sauna.

Yeah.

I still, and I still, like, working my legs.

And, like, it's all good.

I met, I think, like, the stronger your core is, like, the better off, you know, the better you're able to, like, manage these kinds of things.

Yeah.

And, yeah.

Yeah, I'm a huge fan of the sauna.

I'm about to hit it off for this.

Dude, sauna's dope.

I love it.

Yeah.

Sauna's great.

It's like the best workout you could have while sitting.

Absolutely.

Facts.

Yeah, facts.

It like boosts your heart rate.

It boosts nitric oxide throughout the body, which is really important from a cardiovascular health standpoint, also from a metabolic health standpoint.

There's data out of Finland suggesting that regular sauna use is associated with a significantly reduced risk for Alzheimer's disease, hypertension.

cardiovascular events.

Wow.

It seems to be really beneficial.

Yeah, I don't see any downside to it.

I've never heard any negative studies.

Yeah, you just want to be careful and know your limits because, you know,

there's always going to be risk.

It is a stressor on the body.

And that's part of the reason why it's actually good for you because it's a source of hormetic stress, you know,

a dose low enough of stress that you not only survive it, but you actually adapt and you get stronger as a result.

And so in that way, I think, yeah, saunas are amazing.

I love them, man.

Well, Max, where can people find you and your podcast, man?

Yeah, so I'm the host of the Genius Life podcast.

We put up two episodes a week, and I also am dropping my first ever documentary on the science of dementia prevention.

So if you are concerned about brain health, if you've ever experienced dementia in your family, Trius is going to be a highly relatable

journey and experience to watch.

And it's called Little Empty Boxes.

And you can check that out at littleemptyboxes.com.

It's the most important thing I've ever done.

Wow.

Yeah.

Little Empty Boxes.

And it documents my why and anybody who's ever had dementia in their family or any kind of chronic illness, really, which can be a really alienating place to be, you know,

will find solace in the film.

So, again, little emptyboxes.com.

I think every family can relate to that, man.

So, thank you for that.

Thank you, Sean.

Yeah, thanks for coming on.

Thanks for watching, guys, as always.

See you next time.