Remembering Past Lives, After Death & Healing the Body with Sound I Robert Gilbert DSH #425

Yeah.

I mean the life expectancy has gone down from 79 to 73 in males.

I saw that recently.

Yeah, six years.

Yeah, we're getting more and more toxic and you have to get some specific pharmaceutical patented medicine to take, but those are almost always devoted to hiding the symptoms and they actually make your body more toxic with more chemical residues as you take more and more of them.

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All right, guys, we got Robert Gilbert.

Finally got him on.

Thank you for coming on, man.

Yeah, I'm so happy to do it.

And you're right here in my hometown, so it's perfect.

Yeah, what's new with you, man?

Any exciting stuff you're working on?

Oh, we got some great stuff happening this year where...

My teacher from Egypt, Dr.

Ibrahim Karim, who created biogeometry,

has just released a new textbook on advanced things having to do with energies and space and time and how they affect human beings.

And we're bringing him to the U.S.

for a special event for the first time in many years.

Wow.

And so, yeah, we've got quite a few different projects going on.

That's super exciting.

And it's basically he studies how energy affects the body.

He really studies like the energetic foundation of everything in creation.

But he goes beyond the ideas of what we have in modern physics, which is restricted to the physical plane, to go up to the

like biogeometry, the

energetics that are actually animating the physical body and all physiological and health functions.

And the geometry part of it is that those energies can express themselves in shape or sound or color or motion.

or numerical qualities or all kinds of things.

Egyptian National Research Center at one time on the effect of geometric forms on life functions, that actually like even the environments that we live in, like the shape of the rooms and the building and all these things, they all have an effect on us.

Really?

And it's kind of the idea that form follows function and that when energy is put into particular shapes, just like when energy goes into your heart, it's a particular shape, or your liver is a particular shape, it can have particular energetic effects based on the shape information.

And so the way an architect creates something will affect the energetics of everybody that lives and works there.

That is fascinating.

And then you can actually study the way the human body is formed.

So why do the different organs have the forms that they have?

And it's related to the functions they're supposed to perform in the totality of the human health system.

Wow, that is so cool.

I never thought about it.

Yeah, because each organ has such a unique shape, right?

The lungs are like ovalish.

Yeah.

Then you got the stomach.

Yeah, it's

our nose and eyes.

We hear a lot, you know, about the ancient Egyptian temple science science and all the things that they knew then that we don't know now.

And

he's somebody that's done decades of research to reclaim a lot of that lost ancient knowledge, put it into a modern context.

And he talks about the way that to understand it, you have to bring in the qualities of energy and not just the quantity.

So all of our physics today is based on quantitative measurements, and they don't look at anything really beyond the physical plane.

But, you know, all of the functioning of the actual life energy in the human body, our emotional, mental, and higher spiritual faculties, they're all operative at the same time as well.

So there's ways that we can analyze it qualitatively, according to shape, sound, color, motion, angle, these things, and not just quantitatively.

And it opens up a really vast world.

It helps us to understand how in the ancient world, the Egyptian temple science and Indian Ayurveda and Chinese medicine, they had a very different view of...

what health was and how energy works at a fundamental biological level.

That's quite different from the approach today.

Very different.

It seems like today it's all just facts, right?

Today it's all quantitative measurement.

It's all things that are very physical in nature.

And that's important.

That can be powerful.

But no, it's led to where, when the pharmaceutical companies got control of healthcare, that they basically took out all the ancient knowledge having to do with the energy flow in the human body and how it naturally maintains itself.

So it all just becomes selling you a patented chemical.

And that's the foundation of their view of all health when actually there's so much more to it.

So much more.

I'm of the belief of natural healing.

I try to lose any Western medicine.

Yeah.

I think more and more people are waking up to there's so much more you can do there that's so much less toxic than what we tend to get sold in the West today.

I mean, if you look at the numbers, disease is on an all-time high right now.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, it's getting crazy.

Disturbing.

Yeah.

I just had a guy in the health space on here.

I think he said not 87% of people have chronic disease right now.

Something really high.

Yeah, it's wildly high.

Yeah.

I mean, mean the life expectancy has gone down from 79 to 73 in males.

I saw that recently.

Yeah, six years.

Yeah, we're getting more and more toxic.

And unfortunately, a lot of the approach we have in Western allopathic medicine is you have to get some specific pharmaceutical patented medicine to take, but those are almost always devoted to hiding the symptoms.

And they actually make your body more toxic with more chemical residues as you take more and more of them.

And then you get decline over time.

Yeah.

And do you think with big pharma kind of suppressing the spiritual side of things, we're kind of at a low point in terms of spirituality?

Well,

I often think that we're

one of the terms that you sometimes hear is like, it's the best of times, it's the worst of times.

So on the one hand, we're having this huge like awakening process where this is the greatest time in human history for the maximum number of people who are on a independent spiritual journey to get information from all directions and figure figure out, you know, who am I, why am I here, what's the purpose of incarnating in a physical body, in a physical world.

That's something that's very alive today and there's a lot of wonderful openness and exploration with that and getting outside of a lot of old dogmas where you had to accept somebody else's word for it and figure it out for yourself.

But on the other hand, we do have such a materialistic paradigm that tends to rule

so much of our medicine and even understanding of what the human being is when we go to school and and all of the things we're taught are completely physical that sometimes hard to break out of that very materialistic indoctrination that we get to see what's really possible spiritually as a human being.

And you went far down that road.

You got a PhD in international studies.

That's right, yeah.

And the thing about getting the PhD in international studies that was very useful for me is that in the beginning international studies was considered to be a subset of political science, but it kind of got opened up a lot.

So it became a study of all these different cultures around the world.

And although there was a lot of focus on their political systems or economic systems, I was able during my time getting the PhD to study things like healing systems and all these different traditions around the world.

Sometimes I was on my own time outside of the coursework, but I found that to be incredibly valuable.

And again, you'll find that all the ancient cultures, their forms of healing are based on

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Being able to increase the energy of the human energy system at like a biological energy level, like what they call qi in China or prana in India, it's all based on the core life energy and how it can heal itself with a human body.

But we've lost so much of that and we think we have to take some type of pharmaceutical to get any effect for health today.

Was one of those healing things you studied, scalar energy?

Scalar energy is really fascinating.

It's one of those things that because it's outside of the normal paradigm of the physical aspects of physics and modern science, there's a lot of different perspectives on it.

And so people approach it from different directions.

But it really appears that the scalar energies are going to potentially the faster-than-light energies or the energies that are more similar to the biological energy that's in our physical body rather than a purely electromagnetic paradigm.

I was really affected by, you know, when you read the work of Nikola Tesla, who created our whole modern alternating current electrical system,

he talked about the way that everything we have in our modern electromagnetic understanding is what he called retarded Hertzian waves.

That they're slower than the speed of light, so they're retarded in a sense.

But he says there's something else that's potentially faster than the speed of light and is much more connected to the true unlimited quantum field energy that we're surrounded by all the time.

And that's what he called the scalar waves.

And

so scalar energetics are something really fascinating that people are experimenting with all kinds of ways to generate and to apply the scalar waves.

And in some cases, you can find remarkable, almost miraculous healing effects when they get the energies applied in a scalar waveform rather than a standard electromagnetic wave that you'd be able to test easily on a standard meter.

It seems so cost-effective too.

All you need to do is send a photo of yourself and you could be healed.

Yeah, there's a lot of different approaches.

Some people have you send in a photo and then they'll apply the scalar waves to it at a distance.

This is also connected to the work we do in biogeometry, which is that with lots of these energies, everything depends on resonance.

So you find immediate effects when, for example, people do distance healing.

Like on all the studies of distance healing, you don't have to wait from the moment that the distant healer does something to the person, although the person receiving the transmission may be on the other side of the earth.

And if you looked at it from a physical perspective, there would be a time lag for the wave to electromagnetically transmit to the other side of the earth.

But it doesn't work that way.

Really?

It happens instantaneously.

Wow.

The moment they're doing it, the effect is happening in the other location.

But that couldn't be the case if they were transmitting a standard electromagnetic wave.

You'd have to have the inverse square law, and you'd have a particular time for the passage to go from one place to the next.

That's like the whole idea you have of space travel today.

You see, like in science fiction movies, there's a starship out in the solar system, and they have to wait for the transmission from Earth to reach them because of the time lag of transmission.

But for things like distant healing and potentially scalar waves, that can happen as an instantaneous process of resonance, and it doesn't have to pass through slower than the speed of light the intervening distance.

And so again, this kind of blows the mind.

Yeah.

I can't even comprehend that, right?

The standard materialistic mindset.

Wow.

And it's opening up a lot.

But of course, as always happens, this is going to be probably actively suppressed by the standard pharmaceutical industry and the mainstream medical materialistic model and the government agencies that are basically controlled by those interests.

And when was that takeover?

Because I know you've mentioned the dark age and how that ended in 1899.

So one of the ideas spiritually is that in the Indian tradition, they talk about the four great cycles of spiritual evolution, and they keep repeating.

And these are called the four yugas.

And so these are great long ages.

And

they believe that we've been in the spiritual dark age.

And in that dark age, we have lost a lot of understanding of who we are as spiritual beings.

Because most people today,

if you haven't done a certain level of inner work, you don't necessarily remember, let's say, past incarnations, or even remember the fact that you're a spiritual being in a physical body, and you just have as kind of a blank slate, what's going to happen to me after death.

Am I just gone, or is there something else there?

But in ancient times, you read the old text, people are perceiving non-physical realities all the time.

Just like talking to somebody next to them, they can see non-physical things around them.

And so over time, what happened is we evolved during this dark age to where we lost the direct spiritual perception, but what we gained instead was the use of the brain and logical linear scientific thinking as we have it in a materialistic form today.

So we did get something out of that process.

We had to lose something to get something, but now we're at the process that, according to the Babaji lineage in the Himalayas, which is Kriya Yoga lineage, and but also according to the European Rosicrucians, like the work of Rudolf Steiner, they both say that 1899 was the end of this dark age, and now we're moving back into this age of light, which means that we can use the type of intellectual thinking that we've developed in this interim

and develop it actually further to become a type of new clairvoyance.

So we can perceive non-physical realities and have the logical linear thinking both in a new synthesis.

I love that.

Yeah.

Exploring past lives for me was life-changing.

Yes.

I I learned a lot and I figured out really why I'm here.

Wonderful.

That's so important.

Yeah.

So this podcast is huge for that.

Oh, I'm so glad you mentioned that.

I mean, to be honest, my creating the Vesica Institute was really all around how do we compile information that people can access that'll help us to remember who am I?

Why am I here?

What's the purpose of this present incarnation?

So we don't just get completely lost and waste our time here.

And then when we pass through the gate of death, it's like, oh, no, I didn't use that lifetime for all the things I could have to help myself and help other people.

I don't want to die with regret, man.

That's exactly for sure.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think it's important to find out your purpose because we all have one.

Absolutely.

It's so important.

One thing that I talk about with some of my friends in the spiritual science circles is that, you know, people come in with a kind of karmic contract, things that they chose they were going to do in this lifetime.

That's like really important because it will help themselves and others.

And if they don't do it, then potentially other people could suffer because they didn't contribute the thing they could have contributed.

And so it's like a really important thing right now for people to wake up and remember what they chose to do before they came here.

It's the classic when you're up to your alligators, you forgot you came to drain the swamp thing.

We have so much to contend with here.

And we have to take what's called the draft of forgetfulness when we incarnate, where we have to forget for a bit, who am I, why am I here, what's this all about?

And it has to be a process to actively remember this.

And why do you think we're born without memories of past lives?

Do Do you think that's by design?

I do think it's partially by design.

Now, there is the understanding in advanced spiritual traditions around the world that it's possible to develop what they refer to as the latent organs of spiritual perception in the human energy body to have direct spiritual perception.

But it takes certain types of energetic and consciousness activities to develop that within ourselves to a higher level.

Once we do that, we're able to sometimes maintain consciousness from one lifetime to the next where we don't forget things the way we normally do.

But until we've developed those higher structures in the subtle body, then the natural process is that you're going to forget it because most of the memories were contained in the physical brain of the past body, which is now gone.

All the more subtle bodies have left it, and the memories would be imprinted into what's referred to as the etheric body or the life energy body.

And so there's ways to preserve that more between lifetimes that they teach in certain initiation schools.

But without that, it becomes part of the process that we forget.

And that can be helpful if people haven't done enough internal processing to deal with all the traumas that we accumulate.

Because then you get a little bit of a clean slate when you incarnate, and you don't necessarily remember all the terrible things that happened to you the last time.

It's still inside of you to some level.

They still need to be processed.

but it kind of gives you a clean start.

But inevitably, if anybody starts to wake up spiritually, it'll get to the point of, I need to remember who I am and what I'm doing here.

Absolutely.

There's some past life trauma I had to clear, actually.

Absolutely.

I had a stressful life.

I died of a heart attack from being stressed.

And in this life, I would get these heart palpitations all the time.

Yeah.

And I was always healthy.

So I was like, that's so weird.

So when I cleared that a year ago, I haven't had one since.

Yeah.

Pretty weird, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I think you can inherit some trauma from past lives.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

I've seen a lot of that.

And it's extremely useful to become aware aware of that.

And you'll see that things that were like really deep in your subconscious that affected the way that you related to people or how your intimate relationships work

were conditioned by a lot of these traumas that we no longer recalled, but they were still present energetically inside of us.

And when you can clear that, you begin to shift your awareness of these things and your approach to a lot of fundamental things in life.

Yeah.

Yeah, I also had a lot of self-sabotage without me even knowing.

Oh, yeah.

That was a big one, I declare.

It's huge.

I would get you a certain amount of money or whatever whatever and just always find a way to f it up.

Exactly.

Yeah.

It's huge.

You don't even realize it's from past life trauma, man.

Yeah.

Ancestral trauma.

The Rosicrucians in Europe have this great saying, which is, in the beginning was the memory, which means when you're beginning on a real spiritual path, you have to start to remember these things.

Who am I?

Why am I here?

And when you start getting true karmic memory for who you've been before and how that's led to where you are right now, you start seeing how it's connected and that there are certain things you've worked on for a long time and that you have a huge opportunity in this lifetime to take that further, both for your own development and to help other people with it.

Of course.

Do you think there's a next level after the human form?

Yes, I do.

I do think that a lot of our incarnating physically on the physical plane is a particular stage of an alchemical process where

this is the stage where we become self-aware at a higher level.

And we begin to get some level of control over our thoughts, our emotions, our actions.

It's a process we have to go through.

And when we get to the point that we have developed our consciousness and our energy enough,

then we've developed these latent organs of spiritual perception inside the energy body.

And then when we pass through the gate of death, we don't need to have another physical body to perceive things because we've developed these other subtle organs of perception and we could operate in non-physical worlds in a fully conscious way at that stage, but most people, when they're in a totally non-physical world, they haven't developed their organs of spiritual perception enough to be able to navigate through it.

So we have to keep coming back until we get there.

So I do think there are completely non-physical states that we can

reach at a higher level, just like the world of non-physical beings that all the classical traditions talk about, like where we talk about in the West as angels, archangels, archae, Elohim, all these different levels of spiritual beings.

It's like a a pathway where at a certain stage you don't have to have a physical body to be self-aware.

But in the beginning, you need that physical body to be self-aware and to get, like in a kindergarten, very clear stimulus-response mechanism for external things affecting you.

You become more conscious of it and you improve it over time.

So I do think there's the whole thing that at a certain stage we don't need to incarnate physically anymore.

And certain traditions have looked at this in such depth that, for example, the Buddhist Buddhist tradition very famously has the Bodhisattva vow, which is that when you've advanced enough that you no longer need to incarnate on the physical plane for your own development, you could choose just to go off and not have to have physical incarnation anymore and have all kinds of experiences and totally non-physical worlds.

But the Bodhisattva vow is that they vow to continue to return into physical incarnation until all sentient beings attain enlightenment.

Wow.

Which is a

amazing

high level of commitment to like helping other beings on this plane get to the place that you got to.

And that's like really a big ethic in advanced levels of say Tibetan Buddhism or things like that.

Because there is that theory that we were animals in previous lives right and we've evolved into humans from there.

Yes, so there's various viewpoints on that.

But the basic idea is that we do build up like stage by stage.

So

the consciousness that's present in like the mineral kingdom to the consciousness present in the plant kingdom to the consciousness of an animal to the consciousness of a human and then to an angelic state of consciousness which doesn't even require a physical incarnation at that point and then it keeps going through further and further stages.

That's one reason why in the Western tradition they had the idea where when we named all these different non-physical beings that exist around us and all these other levels that most people aren't conscious of, that they had names for all the different ranks and they talked about nine different ranks.

They're really stages of consciousness development and opening up new functions and abilities as you reach that next stage of consciousness as essentially a non-physical being at that point.

Have you remembered anything in between lives?

Like the body releases DMT when it dies.

Have you remembered anything from those stages?

Yes, and I think it's

something extremely significant.

A number of years ago, I created a course called karmic biography to help people remember who am I, why am I here, these kinds of things.

And in the research for that, I was able to find really important systems that were created in the ancient world in things like the Egyptian temple science and in the original Jewish and Greek Kabbalahs, things like this.

And they had an understanding of what they called the passage through the seven heavenly halls.

You'll see pictures of this, like in the Egyptian Book of the Dead, where there's like multiple hallways that the person who has died is going to pass through going into the non-physical worlds.

And so it is possible to do a type of conscious path working through these seven heavenly halls and to begin to recall what happened for us after the last death and leading up to the current birth.

And there can be sometimes amazing experiences as we recall passing through these different

gateways or spheres of life and the types of beings that we're encountering there.

Because in the different hallways or the spheres that we are passing through in the non-physical worlds, we actually encounter the types of beings that we just kind of know abstractly the names in the West of like

dynames or curiotates or thrones or cherubim or seraphim.

We're actually interacting with these beings and they're helping to reflect to us when you go back, there's this other thing you need to work on.

Wow.

And they'll sometimes give us these like pictures of like, this is your current state of development as a spiritual being.

And that's often not a great picture to see.

And then they'll show you another picture of like, if you continue on the pathway, though, you could become this as much more developed.

And so it gives us this inspiration.

And one thing that was very important for me is at one point I remembered passing through the sphere of the sun before coming back.

Yeah.

And that was considered to be a very important experience.

for some ancient cultures that had this as part of their initiations.

And at that point, because you're non-physical and you're passing through the sphere of the sun, you have an experience that your whole being is like tremendous light and fire and energy, and you have like tremendous enthusiasm and energy to take on any challenge on the physical plane, to develop yourself to a much higher level, to provide incredible service to all kinds of people that are in need.

And you got all the wind in your sails.

But then as you come back through the other spheres or hallways to incarnate and things get more and more dense.

Then it's like you have to pick up what's kind of the heavy bags of your old karma

as you incarnate and it's like, oh man.

And then you have to incarnate into this tiny little helpless infant's body

with

no conscious memory of who you are, why am I here, any of that.

And you've got to like kind of start from scratch again.

And it can be difficult.

to regain that level of knowledge and excitement and enthusiasm that we had passing through some of those spheres when we incarnate.

But as we go through that remembering process, the more that we can access those inspirational stages that we had in a very different state of consciousness and beingness in the journey between death and rebirth, then that really puts a lot of wind in our sails again.

Absolutely.

What are some of the techniques you've used to remember some of these past lives?

There can be

One method that I talked about in the karmic biography class.

Unfortunately, I haven't taught this for like 10 years, but I hope to bring it back sometime in the near future, that one of, one very simple thing is that if you pay attention to the things that you're attracted to or the things that you're repelled by, to the things that automatically make sense to you and the things that you have no understanding of and maybe don't care about at all, and then you compare that to other people you know and they're focusing their attention on completely different things.

Those things are super important to them.

They mean nothing to you.

You can start to see that there are certain ways you've structured your consciousness, that there are certain things you innately know and understand and you're good at, that you didn't have any training in in this lifetime, but it's just like a part of you, that can begin to indicate some of these things.

And also, the things that you're really fascinated by and that are pulling you toward them almost magnetically.

Like, I need to experience this, I need to learn this.

Whereas the person who's your buddy next to you that you're talking to about, they like have no idea what you're talking about.

Like, why would you ever want to do that?

Happened to me in high school.

Yeah.

A lot of us go through that experience.

Yeah, yeah.

And so that would be one example, simply paying attention to the things we normally take for granted about how we're attracted or repelled by certain things, things we understand innately that others don't understand, things we're magnetically attracted to that mean nothing to other people.

Often those are keys or codes for who we are.

I was fascinated with astral projection in high school.

Yeah.

I watched every documentary.

Everyone in my town thought I was crazy.

Like, what is this kid talking about?

Yeah.

And now I'm on this spiritual journey.

So it's pretty crazy to see it come back full circle.

Wonderful.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There's also this belief that you choose the life.

The soul chooses the life it lives, whether it's traumatic or a great life.

Do you believe in that theory?

I do think there's a fair amount of that.

At the same time, I have to be very careful that it doesn't become a blame the victim sort of thing when people have horrific experiences and say, well, you just chose that.

I think that can end up being a little bit non-compassionate.

But I do think there's a lot of truth to it in that our perspective when we're out of the body between death and rebirth is so expanded and different than our very limited perspective in a physical body, because we have to be so concerned with the health and the physical body not being in constant pain and agony.

But out of the physical body, it's like, oh, well, if this thing would be good for me in the long run, then I'll undertake it.

And so you can end up with some very difficult, painful life situations.

But in the long run, it could teach you or structure your subtle bodies in a way that would have a tremendous benefit.

Or it may be simply that it's reflected back to someone who they had done some rather terrible things to people in the past and were very non-compassionate about what they did, and now it's getting reflected back to them.

They're having to go through that experience.

And that's going to end up being something that they

then will have a more expanded consciousness of this and not earn that destructive karma in the future now that you've experienced it yourself.

It can have a lot of different flavors to it.

Sometimes the challenges that you have to undergo are things that you've chosen, an accelerated path of development.

It's like you could have a fairly easy life, but it's going to take a bunch of lifetimes to get to where you want to go.

Or you could have a very difficult, challenging life, but you get there a lot faster.

Which do you choose?

Right.

And so that's another part of it.

I love it.

Any breath work, meditation, any psychedelic stuff you're doing right now?

I've been doing a the psychedelic revolution that's happening right now is huge.

and so people that know of my work have probably been seeing an increasing number of videos on YouTube and things where for example I I was a speaker on some videos with the Oxford University Psychedelic Society and talking about

as people are going deeper into working with psychedelics, we need to understand that classically this was a part of a consciousness and spiritual development system.

And so for example, one other person on one of the podcasts was someone who runs a research institute, the Qualia Institute in California.

And

he was talking about they had been able to map these different levels of DMT experience based on the dosage.

And so

I said, this is fantastic research.

And if you compare what you're talking about as these different stages of experience based on DMT dosage, you'll find that this maps amazingly correspondingly to the map of multiple spiritual planes, the physical, the energetic, the emotional, the mental, the causal, the spiritual, the divine, like we talk about.

You're actually getting deeper and deeper into these spiritual levels with a higher dosage.

As you mentioned a moment ago, with the DMT, you know, there's a connection of that, sometimes called the spirit molecule, for when people are leaving the body at the time of death and for all types of advanced spiritual activation.

So I the

psychedelic renaissance can be something that in the end is very, very beneficial for people overcoming tremendous amount of materialistic programming, but I think it'll have the best outcome if we also understand

it's something that is really for regaining your karmic memory of who am I, why am I here, those kinds of things.

And we're just very involved right now at the Vesca Institute with creating more and more resources for people in spiritual science, which is how you develop your consciousness and energy through all types of different methods, and taken from many different traditions, but helping synthesize it together so you can learn the maximum amount in the least amount of time.

And then the vibrational science, which is how you work with your energy, and that includes things like holistic health and healing, and the work in biogeometry from Egypt.

with Dr.

Karim's work.

And I really think that just like in the ancient tradition in India, they talked about Shiva and Shakti.

Shiva's like ultimate consciousness, Shakti's like ultimate energy.

That for us to develop ourselves, we have to both be very conscious of what are the methods and techniques we need to use to develop our consciousness to a higher level, and what are those that we use to develop our energy and our health state and things to a higher level, because they really reinforce each other.

If you don't have enough energy, it's hard to develop the consciousness.

If you don't have enough clarity in your consciousness, it's hard to find the right ways to develop the energy body.

So the consciousness and energy, the Shiva and Shakti in each person,

really work together.

And the more energy you have and the higher the consciousness, then the better the life is, basically.

I love that.

Is energy finite, you think, or do you think it's unlimited?

In the end, it's absolutely unlimited.

We're surrounded by massive amounts of energy all the time.

A lot of it has to do with how we're structured as a biological being.

And this gets a little bit more in-depth.

So, for example, there's a certain amount of energy that you can hold inside the physical body before it starts to burn out the subtle energy channels.

And that's why, for example, if you look at these Tonka paintings from Nepal, they show these energy centers above the human head.

And one of the deeper spiritual science realities of this is that in higher spiritual initiation, you learn to activate the centers above the head, which allow you to have more direct perception of non-physical worlds.

But people subconsciously want to do it here in the physical head but the things that you can do from the centers above the head you couldn't do in the physical body because that level of intensity of energy would again start to burn out the subtle energy channels and it's like the wiring in the physical body is coated to like a particular level of voltage.

You go above that voltage, you can start frying the wires.

So in the end, energy is absolutely unlimited and potentially as you're developing the physical body, you could be upgrading your wiring to be able to take in higher and higher levels of energy.

Got it.

But it's something we need to be conscious of.

We can't just take in unlimited energy in the beginning or we could get kind of fried in our circuit board.

Burn up.

But we can over time incrementally increase it.

And that's through breath work, meditation, grounding.

That's right.

And also through particular types of energetic activities.

I mean, there's One of the great benefits that we have today is that we've had an unprecedented release of incredible advanced spiritual and energetic information from traditions all over the world that previously was impossible to access.

So for example in the 1980s the internal alchemy formulas from the Chinese Taoists began to be publicly available.

Before that you just simply couldn't access them, one of the highest spiritual bodies of knowledge in the world.

Now you can buy a lot of the pieces of their knowledge for like $1695 for a paperback book.

And that's like

unknown in earlier times of human history.

So a lot of like their methods for how you develop the energy body and work with the internal wiring and upgrade the internal wiring is very practical, really amazing and

I think somewhat revolutionary.

So we have the access to the the information now and what I've wanted to do with the Vesk Institute and we're really devoted to is pulling that information from the multiple traditions and putting it into one unified framework without it being like the Vuska Institute is not like an organization that you join.

We're not like something that

is not a cult.

You don't have to like give your power away to anybody else.

It's about learning the information for yourself and then applying it to whatever is your own life goals or your own particular path.

But we have such fragmented information spiritually and energetically today.

It really helps to get some of the key pieces that are not spoken of publicly easily accessible to you in a very clear, concise form and put the pieces together from multiple traditions where now it makes sense.

Oh yeah, that would make sense for how I develop consciousness, that makes sense for how I develop energy, things like that.

I love how you're combining the traditions and religions because it's been so divisive lately.

Yes.

And absolutely.

You're kind of taking the best of each and then combining them.

Yeah, because they have thousands of years of direct experimentation with these things and they found certain things worked.

And when you look at the highest levels of Ayurveda, Chinese medicine, internal alchemy systems from around the world, then when you you put them together, it all makes sense.

It's like, oh yeah, these people specialize in that part of it, and they can really give the best instructions on that part.

But once it leads to this next stage, this other group knows more about it.

They focused on that.

And so this is that end of the dark age, end of the Kali Yuga, where we have access to the information now, but it's still not going to help us unless we're able to put it into a clear, coherent,

larger form where we can navigate through the information and make informed choices because we have very limited time and energy in our physical lifetime for exactly what practices am I going to do and what am I trying to develop in my consciousness and energy.

So as much as we can understand that framework and what our options are for different effective practices, then the better we can use our time.

That's exciting.

Do you think humans will ever get to where ancient civilizations were spiritually to that level again?

It's absolutely possible.

We have so many benefits today in the new technologies for exchanging information.

And again, like I've mentioned, this is the first time in recorded history that this release of very advanced information from these different traditions is happening at such a high level.

So I think it's quite possible that we can exceed the achievements of the previous civilizations.

But again, we have to get to the point where we have a really clear understanding of what that spiritual science and that vibrational science is.

Once that becomes more coherent instead of the broken fragments we have currently, then we're going to see absolutely incredible things.

Do you know how the governments were run back then and if they were as corrupt as allegedly they are now?

Well, what we have in recorded history is the further back you go, you only had the right to rule if you were in a sense overshadowed by higher spiritual beings of a much higher level of development.

Wow.

And so that was called like the divine right to rule.

Later it became like a bloodline thing.

And if you're part of this bloodline, then you're the next king or whatever.

But that became very manipulated.

But again, the further back you go, it really had to do with the level of the consciousness development of the person to where they could see things spiritually at a much higher level.

And of course, Plato's philosopher king is someone who didn't get involved with it for their own egotistical gratification or for their power interest, but they were doing it as an act of service.

They'd rather not do it.

but they did it because they're at a level of development where they could be the best ruler at the time.

Now, that hasn't been the case for a long time, and now people get into politics usually from a thirst for power and self-aggrandizement and things like that.

But in the ancient world, I think it was originally quite different.

And no doubt, over time, you know, the people who were more aggressively oriented ended up becoming like the chieftains and the warlords, and they defeated the other people and unified everyone under their

dictatorship type of rule.

And we still have a lot of overtones of that today.

Yeah, I had Matthias on, and he was saying war has been around since humans were around, which surprised me because I thought it was a newer concept.

Well, there's the idea in Rosicrucianism that in the current part of Earth evolution that we're on now, that the first half of that earth evolution for human beings as spiritual beings is what's referred to as the Mars period.

And it's always been to a certain level, based on conflict.

Now, of course, there's also the cooperative aspect, what people think of as like the goddess or more divine feminine aspects of rulership where it's not so conflictual.

But we definitely have had conflicts a lot throughout history.

And so there's evolution through conflict in that first Mars period of human evolution.

But the Rosicrucians believe that the next stage that we're starting to move into right now is that stage of Mercury and that's the healing forces.

So now we need to get a bit out of that conflictual mode and more into healing all the damage from that and having that higher enlightened state ruling things rather than just the power interest.

Right.

And I know you were in the Marines for a bit, right?

That's right.

I was in the Marines for several years.

I wasn't intending this, but I became an instructor in nuclear, biological, chemical warfare defense.

Wow.

And that was really interesting for me because then I began to see practical aspects of biology, chemistry, and physics.

So it was there that I became aware of these publications that the public never really sees that were sponsored by NATO and other organizations, where rather than examining

everything in the world, biology, chemistry, physics, all life, and all structure, all that, according to just mathematics, they examined it according to pure geometry.

Because the geometry or the shape information, we grok in a completely different level of our consciousness than the mathematics.

And so they would like study all these different natural systems based on the pure shape information.

And then you find books like General Chemistry by Linus Pauling, where he talks about all the different chemical compounds in the world, and they all have

particular geometric forms to them.

And many of them are based on what the Egyptians and then the Greeks taught later.

The Greeks referred to them as the platonic solids.

So a lot of times today when people talk about sacred geometry, they're talking about these platonic solid type forms from Greece.

But we found they didn't know this at the time, but now in modern research, these forms that were taught in the ancient spiritual traditions as the foundation of all existence these core shapes were later rediscovered in empirical research in the last 100 years to be the exact shapes that things are formed at at a deep chemical level in the levels of physics etc so it's like how did they know that thousands of years ago that's crazy and it's because they're perceiving it at a whole nother level

And so that's one thing that I got into with the Marine Corps aspect is looking at that and saying, well, why aren't we teaching things according to the geometry, according to the pattern?

So the way I approach sacred geometry is not only something where we can see non-physical realities represented in these shapes, like you see today a lot of like tapestries and posters and things that have like sacred geometry and it's kind of trippy.

Yeah.

And you know, if people are tripping, then they like seeing these things, or they may see it spontaneously in their inner landscape.

But it's the type of thing that I see sacred geometry as being a language of pattern.

And so that's really the foundation of everything.

If you want to advance spiritually, look at the pattern in your own life.

What's the pattern of how you use your mind?

What's the pattern of how you use your energy?

What's the pattern of how you deal with your emotions?

What's the actions you take in the world?

Everything has a pattern.

And as we understand those patterns more deeply, we can start improving things very, very significantly.

So that's like the classical stage of self-observation or know thyself.

And it's the foundation of all the mindfulness practices and self-help practices we have today.

See what the patterns are in our own lives and see how you can make that that pattern something that serves you better.

Never realized how important patterns and shapes were until today.

Yeah.

It makes a lot of sense though, because when I used to dabble with psychedelics and I used to see patterns on them.

Absolutely.

It's very, very common.

And this is also connected to where classical traditions, they talk about when you get direct spiritual perception, you start perceiving these things all the time

because they are the the blueprints for how everything is constructed both in the physical world and in the higher worlds.

And there's also also the idea that quickly as you develop the energy centers above the head for higher levels of consciousness, that you'll find that many of these geometric forms are in fact what's referred to as packed thought forms, meaning that within that geometric shape, it's a pattern that holds a tremendous amount of embedded content.

And so once you can read the language of form, as a type of alphabet, then this pertains to everything, including advanced forms of healing, because there are certain energy circulations, for example, in the human body.

Once you become aware of them, and you can help to restore them through your own consciousness and certain exercises, and this is like medical Qigong from China, then they're absolutely fundamental for how the energy works and is distributed inside of us and from the outside to inside of us.

Wow.

I know acupuncture is big on energy transfer or something.

Absolutely.

Yeah, they really understand it at a very deep level.

I need to try it out.

Have you done it?

Oh, absolutely.

Nice.

You know,

before the 1970s in the U.S., people knew very little about Chinese medicine or about acupuncture.

The reason that it caught on and there began to be Chinese medicine universities in the U.S.

and people training to be Chinese medical doctors was for political reasons.

The president at the time, Richard Nixon, went to China to try to open up China as like a counter force against Russia and all this other stuff happening.

And what happened is one of the members of his American diplomatic entourage had like a heart attack.

And so he was rushed to a Chinese medical facility, and they saw him being cut open and having open heart surgery in China with no anesthetic.

And he had no pain whatsoever because they knew where to put the acupuncture needles.

Wow.

And so the reporters that were with Nixon like reported this in like all the evening news broadcasts and big newspapers at the time in the 70s.

There's people like, how did they accomplish that?

How can you cut a person wide open and do open heart surgery with no anesthetic and they're conscious?

And it's because they knew where to put the needles because in certain places they affected the flow of the energy in the body.

And that's what led to a real explosion of interest in Chinese medicine and all the acupuncture clinics and things that we see today.

Yeah, that's so cool.

How can you identify if you have energy blockages in your body?

It can be detected through a number of means.

In Chinese medicine, they tend to use pulse diagnosis.

diagnosis.

They also use that in India, and you can detect certain things there.

In things like chronic healing, you can sensitize the hands to be able to feel energy, and you can feel where in the body there are certain energy blockages.

You can get your own consciousness extremely clear and put it inside the body, and you'll feel places that feel

armored.

or restricted.

And if you, there's a particular method that we teach where you can put your attention, your mind inside a part of the body and go into the center of the center of the center of the center with what you feel there.

And you can start to map it with your awareness.

And it can be like, does it feel hot or cold?

Does it feel smooth or sticky?

And any of the types of sensations related to it.

Those sensations are in the etheric life body.

And so that would be a type of blockage.

in the flow of the life energy, which is the foundation of Chinese medicine and things, is to open up those flows.

So we can discover it through getting very clear inside and putting the attention inside the body.

You can also sometimes find it through simple things like where is there

certain types of fascial tightness in the body, like where people hold their energy or body tight,

then often they're holding the body tight in those areas either because of physical trauma or emotional trauma.

And then there's particular blockages related to that.

So that became the foundation of mind-body therapies around from from the 1930s into the 50s and 60s.

And at that point, people began to realize if you can break down the physical armoring or tightness in the body and loosen it up again, then the energy will start flowing through some of these blocks.

And people began to spontaneously remember the traumatic event that led to them tightening up.

That's crazy.

So that's like a huge part of modern mind-body therapies.

Yes, your body can remember trauma.

Oh, yeah, your body remembers trauma and tries to protect you from it by encapsulating it.

So let me hold that part of the body where I stored that trauma and I'll hold it really tight and you can kind of leave it alone and deal with all the survival stuff in your life.

But at a certain point it restricts you so much you have to go into it and open it back up.

And it could be opened up with consciousness, it could be opened up with herbs, it could be opened up with acupuncture, it could be opened up with body work,

breath work.

There's all types of different approaches.

And today we're seeing fantastic growth in the fields of how to combine approaches together.

Use the breath work and the acupuncture and the light and sound therapies or herbs or whatever it is and start opening up these stuck places in the energy body.

And your life gets a lot better.

I love it.

When it comes to light therapy, are you talking about red light therapy?

Red light therapy is the one that's caught on the most.

And it is a fantastic therapy.

It's based on a lot of research that was done by NASA and the Department of the Navy and all kinds of scientific research institutes.

It's a very real thing.

But light therapy, in a larger sense, you know, you had a very advanced system in the early 1900s called spectrochrome.

And the spectrochrome system used all types of different frequencies of light and began to research how they would affect different illness states in the body, even different psychological states.

That was developed further by Dr.

Peter Mandel in Germany in what he called color puncture, where rather than using needles, they used different frequencies of colored light into the acupuncture points to open up the energy meridians and energy channels in the body.

And so there's been a fair amount of mapping.

I even have an online course called the Universal Vibrational Spectrum about these different qualities of energy and what they do at the physical, energetic, emotional, mental, or even spiritual levels.

And so the light therapy, all the different frequencies of light have different biological functions.

and they also activate different types of emotional and consciousness states.

So that's like a whole world in itself is the work with light therapy.

And then the same thing is true with sound therapy.

Now, the one thing I love about the biogeometry from Egypt and what I've learned from Dr.

Karim is that connected to the knowledge of the ancient Egyptian temple science, which has primarily been lost and he's really working to bring it back in a practical way, there's like a universal system of energy, a universal system of energy qualities that

will create all different biological functional effects in your body and again everything in your emotions, consciousness, etc.

That universal spectrum of different energetics can then manifest within the scale of light and color.

So you could get all types of energetic effects using nothing other than light and color, because it can manifest in that scale.

But that same universal scale could also manifest in the scale of sound with different sound qualities, or it can manifest in different geometric shapes

or angles, proportions, numerical sequences.

All these are ways, they're what we refer to as quality scales.

They're all ways that that universal pattern of energy could manifest in something we perceive on the physical plane as shape, sound, color, motion, angle, proportion, etc.

I love that.

I've been so aware of sound lately.

Yeah.

Like how it used to affect me.

I used to listen to a lot of hip-hop music.

Yeah.

And that is not the best to inspire you to work and stuff.

So I made a conscious shift.

Now I listen to binaural beats, classical music.

Yes, absolutely.

I think sound is super important.

It's really powerful.

And one of my favorite aspects of the sound therapy is something called cymatics.

And you can see a lot of videos on YouTube about it, where when you put specific sound frequencies into a liquid or a paste,

you can see that when you change the sound frequency, the shape information in the material will immediately change.

Wow.

It shows that the vibrational information, the vibrational frequency is behind all shapes, all manifestations in the physical world.

So like everything in the physical body, every organ in the body has a particular core frequency resonance.

So after they discovered through cymatics that you could visibly see the change of the geometric pattern of any material based on changing the sound frequency, they then developed cymotherapy.

And I've got some free articles and things on my website, vesica.org, about cymatics and cymotherapy.

And I know some of the most advanced researchers in it today,

it's an incredible field.

So they then figured out with signotherapy, well, these particular sound frequencies can be applied in the physical body to restore the core resonant frequency that the organ needs to operate at the optimal level.

It's an incredible, incredible field.

Now, when they make available sinotherapy, the only thing the FDA allows them to talk about is that it can be used for pain relief and it can be used to get rid of stress and things like that.

The actual things it's really capable of, you can't really even talk about publicly.

It's a shame.

There's people on organ transplant lists for years and they could just find out about this instead.

It's incredible, the stuff I've seen with it.

And again, that's why I put the three articles on my website so people can learn more about it.

And there are actual, it used to be you had to go to like specialized clinics to get the cymotherapy treatments because they found out in the original research in Britain

that

you can't use just one sound frequency.

They found to be able to restore the innate frequency information that powers the different organs and structures in the human body that you have to combine five sound frequencies together.

It's got to be a very precise combination of five sound frequencies and then it creates the overall vibrational cascade that restores the natural vibrational functioning to the organs and systems of the body.

And so they were able to map over 750 different complex sound codes that relate to different biological functions and even things at the emotional, mental, consciousness levels, all kinds of things.

And so a very good friend of mine, Mandara Cromwell,

who's in the U.S., I've worked with her for years.

She took the original British research and created the first at-home devices after like 40 years of clinical work where you could actually get them and use them at home.

And I think they're absolutely incredible.

Incredible.

Yeah, it's great stuff.

We'll link that below too.

Yeah, thank you.

Robert, it's been amazing.

I've learned so much, man.

Where can people find you?

And do you have anything you want to promote?

Oh, thank you.

Yes, my website is vesica.org, and Vesica is spelled V as in Victor E-S-I-C-A dot O-R-G.

And that has all the information on our online courses and different resources and some of the live events that we'll have coming up.

And that includes trainings in biogeometry, in spiritual science, consciousness development, and the vibrational science work in holistic health and things of that kind, including cymatic sound therapy and all the other things we've discussed.

Perfect.

We'll link it below.

Thanks for coming on, man.

Wonderful.

Thank you so much.

I appreciate it.

Of course, thanks for watching, guys.

See you next time.