Extending Lifespan, Best Lightbulbs & Dangers of EMF | Ben Greenfield DSH #339

He said on a few videos he doesn't sleep with anyone because he's all about that hunter sleep score.

That's actually like a thing that's becoming more.

I hear that a lot now, especially in the biohacking industry because you know I have people I talk to are just like orthorexic health enthusiasts and they don't sleep with their partner anymore.

Wow.

Because and this is true.

Two of the most common reasons that people don't sleep well are dogs or partners.

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Ladies and gentlemen, no intro needed here.

We got Ben Greenfield here today.

What's up, my man?

I don't know.

A lot of people might need an introduction.

Yeah?

I just want to put you on the spot and see if you're able to do it.

But if not, that's okay.

You are a longevity.

I'm going to free stuff up.

Longevity expert and a biohacker.

How about that?

I like it.

There we go.

Simple enough.

And you're here for a longevity conference right now?

Not really.

I came down to watch the UFC fight, and then I found out there was a longevity conference.

I worked the other way around.

Okay.

But yeah.

Yeah.

So now I'm here for a long, it's longevity fest.

Okay.

It's massive.

Yeah.

It's like a freaking like thousands of people.

It's definitely like a 10,000 stepper.

Damn.

Like it's a big expo floor with all the latest red light therapy beds and peptide injections.

Yeah.

It's it's a conference and I spoke at it like three years ago and

it's very interesting because I think it's the largest collective of white coat-wearing physicians who are jacked up on steroids and juiced to the gills.

And it's one of the few expos where you see peptides and

antioxidants and then like

enlargement booths.

Every 10 or so, there's something for enlargement.

So I think the basic idea is live a long time, feel good doing it, and somehow figure out a way to make your genitals not shrink and

interesting.

Yeah.

Was there anyone there or any booths that really stood out to you?

I literally rolled in this morning and did a book signing and then like left to come down here with a brief walkthrough.

But yeah, like tonight I'm going back because they actually have a van there, like a trailer.

And inside the trailer is this machine and it's called the amortal.

It is this

bed that is full of red light, and then it pumps ozone in there that you breathe as an antioxidant, and then it has like pulsed electromagnetic field therapy and radio frequencies and negative, it's like everything that you can do, all the things on just like one wow, that sounds fine.

I have a 4:30 appointment to go try that out.

Let me know how it goes, man.

Yeah, that sounds fast, probably costly in the morning.

I think it's, I think, if you wanted to buy one, it's it's north of 150K, so it's like something that clinics like facilities would buy yeah for people who have basements and you know spouses who are game for them to yeah i'm not at that level yet proportionate amount of money on a red light therapy bed but yeah so are you a big fan of red light because i'm going to infrared son after this i like it um it it's

you know people raise an eyebrow on it as like the weird thing that biohackers do but if you go to pubmed and you do it it's technically called photobiomodulation that's like the scientific term for it and if you go and look at it i mean it it triggers more collagen and elastin production on the skin.

If it hits an organ like the thyroid, it'll upregulate thyroid.

You've probably seen like some men will use it on their gonads for testosterone and it increases that too and increases blood flow to

the nether regions.

I do.

It's good for the joints.

Like I have a wraparound one.

I've been used on my knee for the joints

because it's good, good for healing up injuries or introducing blood flow or decreasing inflammation, even better than icing in the scenario, which is significant.

So yeah, I mean, back in the day, like, you know, 20 years ago, physical therapists and physicians were using lasers, like cold lasers on areas of inflammation.

And now these are just like household objects that you can get, you know, beds or like the infrared sauna, like you use.

Yeah.

You mentioned about the shining on the gonads thing.

And I actually do, when I go down in my office with my cup of coffee in the morning, I have two big red light panels and I've got the one set up in front of me so I can reach around it and still type on my keyboard, put emails and everything.

The other one is behind me, and I literally just take off my clothes and stand there, and it's literally like

embracing the sunshine for the first time.

And if you measured it and you feel fantastic, you've measured results of your tea going up from doing that?

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's not that much, but it's mostly free testosterone.

So you've got your total and your free testosterone, and you can have high total testosterone, but it doesn't matter if it's bound up.

There's something called sex hormone binding globulin that binds up.

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My first million.

Free testosterone.

And what you see is a drop in SHBG and a rise in your free testosterone when you use the red light therapy.

And apparently,

the way that it works is you have these cells in your testes called Leydig cells, and it increases the activity, like the ATP production of the Leydig cells, so they can produce more testosterone.

And I think it improves like sperm and semen parameters and all sorts of

stuff.

You might have to try that out then.

Interesting.

Yeah.

Now, there's levels to this biohacking game.

How do you feel about Brian Johnson?

Because I feel like he's probably like the highest level you can reach.

Well, you got to specify which one you're talking about because there's a liver king, Brian Johnson.

Oh, there is?

There's a guy who is like the go-to guy if you're going to build a house or an office and you want the best building biology, like the best air, light, water, electricity, like low-dirty electricity, circadian-friendly lighting, etc.

And he's based out of Phoenix, and his name is Brian Johnson.

And then there's the philosopher guy.

Remember the guy who used to do the philosopher's notes?

And he just wrote a book called Erite.

He would, he would do, I used to love him.

He did these short PDF summaries of super old Stoic books, books like Marcus Aurelius and the Stoic Philosophers, and kind of like Ryan Holiday, but packaged up into these tiny little bite-sized 20-minute segments.

And he had reviewed like 300 different philosophy books.

And his name is Brian Johnson.

And then you've got Brian Johnson, who I think you're referring to, who's been making the waves lately about longevity.

Yes.

Injecting his, I don't know, doing plasma transfers with his teenage son's young blood and all sorts of crazy supplements and reverse treatments.

Reverse aging.

I interviewed him on my podcast.

And look, I mean, the dude is driven.

He doesn't, I respect that he doesn't just like go out and cowboy everything.

Every decision he makes from what he's going to eat to when he goes to bed to what kind of exercise he does is all steeped in mostly human clinical research.

And I would not be surprised if the dude lives a long time and feels pretty good doing it.

But I mean, he's like eating the same thing for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, going to bed at.

I don't think he goes to bed super early, but like 8.30, something like that, last meal at noon.

Extremely regimented lifestyle.

And look, I mean, mean, like, not only am I

a family man, but I'm a foodie.

I do like to sometimes

maybe stay up later than eight.

I like to eat stuff that my wonderful wife in the other room makes for dinner and not sit there and I can't have this because I didn't fit the macros for the day.

I really like to eat at some point after, you know, 11 a.m.

or noon.

There's just like so many things.

It's like this thing in the biohacking sector.

Yeah, you could live a long time, but do you want to be like cold and hungry and libidoless, hunched over inside like a hyperbaric chamber, like laying in a float tank, spending all of the years that you're giving yourself to live a long time, attempting to live a long time?

There's a balance.

Like, yeah, and not going snowboarding or swimming with the sharks or doing like anything that's remotely dangerous.

Like, it's not, in my opinion, about optimizing just health span, lifespan.

It's health span, lifespan with the balance of fun span thrown in.

And like, yeah, if I die, you know, whatever, whatever, three seconds earlier, because I'm probably going to have an extra cocktail tonight at dinner.

And I mean, you know, I like that.

I like that.

I'm okay with it.

Yeah.

I noticed he said on a few videos he doesn't sleep with anyone because he's all about that hunter sleep score.

That's actually like a thing that's becoming more popular.

I hear that a lot now, especially in the biohacking industry.

Cause, you know, I half the people I talk to are just like orthorexic health enthusiasts and they don't sleep with their partner anymore.

Wow.

Because, and this is true.

Two of the most common reasons that people don't sleep well are dogs or partners.

Actually, I think, I think the number one, you might have heard of this, the number one reason people get hurt in their house is tripping over a pet.

Really?

So dogs and cats have two

bad things

for them.

But anyways, the,

yeah, if you want to live a long time, get a goldfish.

But the, but the partner sleeping thing.

So now people are like, well, you know, I was with a guy at dinner in LA a couple of weeks ago.

He's like, you still sleep with your partner?

I'm like, yeah.

He's like, well, how are your sleep scores?

I'm like, well, they're okay.

He's like, does she wake you up at night?

Do you wake her up at night?

I'm like, yeah.

He's like, you guys need to sleep in separate beds.

I'm like, what do you mean?

He's like, well, when it's time for bed at our house, I go in the bedroom and I say goodnight to my wife.

And then I go in my office where I have my own bed set up.

I'm like, I can't do that.

I mean, like, I literally sleep.

My wife gets annoyed sometimes, like pretzeled over her, one arm over her and a leg.

And then I like to wake up in the morning and then re-snuggle and wrap my arms around her.

And yeah, it's not the best thing for sleep.

But gosh, I mean, like,

when you touch a partner, you're skin on skin, you get oxytocin.

There's bonding.

My wife and I like do pillow talk and pray together at night.

And there's like all you can't, well, you can't do the pillow talking or the prayer if you're one of these mouth taping folks.

But yeah, I mean, again, it comes down to, yeah, partner enjoyment and life satisfaction and bonding outweigh whatever a five or ten point drop in my sleep score for me.

Yeah, I'm a fan of the mouth tape, though.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You don't like it?

I've been getting chapped lips lately because I started doing it again.

I worked with this dentist.

Have you ever heard of biological dentistry?

No.

Okay, so she's amazing.

Her name is Anico Loud.

She's in Phoenix.

She walked up to me at a party, at a cocktail party at this event I was at and started telling me all the things that was wrong with my mouth and my teeth.

Oh, wow.

And she could see stuff from across the room.

So I wound up in her office in Phoenix, like a month later, doing a cone scan and an x-ray and a whole 3D analysis of my mouth.

And my wife went down and did the same thing.

And then she designed these custom mouthpieces for us that will gradually align our bite and our jaw over a period of almost a year.

And then she goes in and does all the work.

Whereas most dentists will do the work first, but then you grind that all away after a certain period of time.

And then you got to go in and do it all over again rather than fixing the underlying issue, which is often aggravated by everything from like low fat soluble vitamin vitamin intake when you're a kid to eating a lot of ultra-processed foods to mouth breathing because of stress or because you weren't taught how to breathe properly.

But the idea is poor breathing patterns and poor jaw and teeth formation are a problem.

And one of the areas that they tend to be a problem for is when you're sleeping, right?

Because if your mouth and your jaw aren't open properly or the airway isn't open properly, then you wind up getting sleep apnea, which is one of the number one reasons, besides your partner and your dog and your cat, that people wake up during the night.

So you fix sleep apnea in

one area, not just with dental work, but by taping your mouth.

So you force yourself to breathe through your nose and your body gradually learns how to breathe properly.

As a matter of fact, some people will be able to stop mouth taping after a certain period of time.

So I used to mouth tape and it improved my sleep score.

The number one way to know if mouth taping is going to help your sleep score is if you have a way to measure your heart rate during the night.

In most people, it will drop sometimes more than five beats during the night, which is indicative that you're more oxygenated and you're in more of like a parasympathetic rest or digest state.

And most people who mouth tape and compare to when they're not mouth taping see that drop in heart rate and better sleep scores.

So, anyways, I got that mouth guard from this dentist in Phoenix, and it

allowed me to breathe through my nose without having to tape my mouth.

So I was a mouth guard person for a while,

but then I just got some work done on my teeth, and the mouth guard has to be adjusted and doesn't fit anymore.

So last week I started mouth taping again, but now I've got chapped lips.

That's the problem.

Is there's one brand called Somnifix that's really, really nice.

It's like luxurious for the lips.

But then I've got this extreme brand that I bought when I had a mustache called hostage tape.

That's the one I use.

Because it'll go, but the hostage tape is like harder to peel off.

It is.

So what I need to do is start, and they tell you to do this.

I just haven't been.

They tell you, like, put a little oil on your lips before you put it on.

Oh, okay.

So, I got to start doing that.

But yeah, mouth taping is incredible.

Yeah, I'm a fan, man.

I got to say, I notice it when I wake up.

Like, I feel a little better.

But you sound like freaking like Kenny from South Park when you're trying to have pillow talk at night with your partner.

So, I have to rearrange the sleeping scenario in terms of when we pray and when we talk and when I put them in the bathroom.

Yeah, it fixes snoring too, apparently.

It does.

Yeah.

And you can measure that.

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There's one app that I use called Sleep Space and it will pick up.

auditory cues during sleep, identify if you're a snorer, and you could also run that to see if you snore or if the mouth tape causes you to snore less.

But usually if you snore, you also have sleep apnea.

And so many people have sleep apnea.

I mean the heart rate's the easy way to do it.

But if you like on Amazon or whatever, you can get an overnight pulse oximeter that you put on your finger that'll actually measure your oxygen levels during the night.

And most people, especially those who have sleep apnea, will see their oxygen levels go up and down and up and down.

And what happens is when you have a nighttime awakening, it's usually hypo oxygenation, like your body having that wake-up period

because you went into sleep apnea or your airway became obstructed.

And it's a problem for a lot of people and an increasing problem, again, back to low vitamin D and vitamin K intake in kids because they're not eating a lot of natural foods,

the

high intake of ultra-processed foods that you don't have to chew as much.

And so the jaw and the mouth don't become strong.

There's an entire book about this called Jaws.

Wow.

It's fantastic.

I have another friend who is developing right now a jaw strengthening gum to address this very issue.

And he showed me a scan of his face before and after he'd been chewing it for about eight weeks.

And it actually shows the scan does all the new bone deposition and jawbone that's grown thicker just from him chewing this gum.

For eight weeks?

Yeah.

So the idea is if you, there's like jawsercisor devices you can get.

There's the gum that's like, there's one right you can get in Greece called mastic gum.

That's like super hard, chewy gum.

But this is like a giant like half golf ball ball-sized wad of masticum.

He gave me some like three weeks ago, and I'm out now, but my jaw was sore for like a week.

So I think it works.

Wow.

But yeah, the idea is like in westernized societies, we grow up with weak jaws, weak teeth, you know, teeth crowding, airway obstruction, mouth breathing instead of nasal breathing.

And then stress doesn't help with that.

Forward head posture on the phones doesn't help with that.

Sedentary lifestyle doesn't help with that.

So yeah, there's all sorts of stuff you have to do.

Wow.

Like nose breathing and mouth taping and chewing your food and strengthening your jaw because it's reversible.

And then, like, top of the totem pole is you actually go to what would be called a biological dentist, which is a dentist that doesn't put crap in the mouth as far as toxins and metals.

Fluoride can be an issue.

Fluoride is actually great for the teeth, just not that great for the thyroid and the rest of the body.

So you can't swallow it, which is hard to do if you're using fluoride mouthwash or toothpaste.

And so the dental work is like top of the totem pole pole because theoretically, if you get the dental work done, it just fixes everything and you wouldn't have to mouth tape.

But that's expensive.

I mean, to do like a series of treatments with a biological dentist, with a mouth guard, and everything.

Yeah.

You're looking at north of 10K.

And a lot of that stuff isn't covered by dental insurance because it's more aesthetic.

Yeah.

It's preventative, I guess, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

You mentioned phones earlier.

What's your take on EMF radiation?

I used to sleep with my phone next to me.

Oh, yeah.

I love it.

It's so convenient.

It is like, yeah, it's a catch-22 because it's so convenient.

And you like hope at some point, I don't know, human cells will evolve to better withstand the radio frequencies.

But yeah, I mean, it's an issue.

There's no biological free pass.

You know, and if you look at the localized heating of tissue, I think the biggest area of concern is for the brain for people who are still, whatever, maybe sleeping with their phone next to their head or holding their phone up.

There's a little bit of heating with the class three Bluetooth signal that are used in the earbuds and things like that.

And I still even just use the old school wired headphones.

It's a problem.

I don't think you can deny some of the evidence that shows that Wi-Fi signals or radio frequencies have effects on human tissues and cells.

Namely, what happens is you get a more permeable cell membrane and there's an influx of calcium into the interior of the cell.

Calcium is a positively charged ion and technically the cell is supposed to be at a slightly negative charge on the inside and positive charge on the outside.

So you're in this constant state of improper polarization of the cell.

And that can be draining after a while, just from a metabolic standpoint.

Setting aside any issues with like heating, radiation, DNA damage, which I think could happen with a lot of exposure close to the body over a long period of time, right?

We know that people who keep their phone in their pocket, like men, have lower sperm counts.

You see lower bone density on the femur in which the whichever pocket that the phone is in.

Really?

Heating of the head.

You don't see people dropping dead left and right of like brain cancer, but it's having an effect in the body.

I don't think that the answer is to not use your phone, but I think that you can be smart.

Like, you know, I have a case called a defender shield that I keep my phone in, and it blocks a little bit of the radiation.

I use the wired headphones instead of Bluetooth.

I have the Wi-Fi and the Bluetooth off on my phone if I don't need to have it on and my phone's in airplane mode if I'm just like working out of the gym listening to an audio book or a podcast or whatever.

So it's like you want to limit your exposure time as much as you can, which is pretty simple to do.

I mean, a lot of people are just like, freaking like when you're on a plane and you look around, half the people don't have their phones in airplane mode.

It's like.

It's not because they're using it.

It's because they just don't put their phones in airplane mode and don't even use that function.

It's so so yeah when you sleep when you don't need it when you're at the gym have it in airplane mode use wired headphones if you can keep it in some kind of protective case if you can but I think the bigger thing to think about is

your body is an amazing regenerative healing machine as far as the cells becoming repolarized and the DNA repairing.

And it does most of that, most nervous system repair and recovery, in addition to like emotion.

processing and memory consolidation occurs while you're sleeping.

So in my opinion, if you're going to live a modern industrialized lifestyle in which you're on your phones and you got Wi-Fi routers and you're on your computer computer and you're connected, which is, I think, a necessary aspect of living in today's society, you need to protect your bedroom because the bedroom is the one place where your body has a chance to,

okay, step away from all this stuff.

Now, my wife doesn't like it very much and I don't use it as much because of that, but I actually have a remote control Faraday cage that will lower around the entire

like the princess posters on the bed.

The cage lowers around it.

So, and you can't send a text message.

You can't make a phone call.

It's completely cut off to all electricity, cell phone towers, radio frequencies, anything.

You don't have to go to that extent, but I think it's a good idea to like think about not having a computer and a TV in the bedroom.

Definitely not a Wi-Fi router in the bedroom.

And even consider turning off your Wi-Fi router at night if you're not going to be working on it anyways.

Things that are plugged in, like the bedroom shouldn't have a bunch of stuff plugged in.

And if it does, they should have some kind of a, what they call it, a dirty electricity filter, which is a very simple wall outlet that you can plug anything that's in the bedroom into to reduce the amount of electrical surges that occur so the way to think about it from a very simplistic standpoint is as many things that generate electricity radio frequencies cell signals wi-fi etc in the bedroom try and disconnect as much as you can because that's the time of the night when the body actually repairs all of the exposure to electricity that happens during the waking day.

Wow.

So it's not like you, it's kind of like working out, right?

You you work out and it does damage to the body and then you recover.

And you could think about, well, electricity is like working out your cells, if you want to call it that, like damaging the cells, and then you recover while you're asleep.

So

there are other things that can assist this process a little bit, like taking magnesium before you go to bed.

That helps to balance out the calcium influx into the cells

in the morning using something like NAD.

You know, that's a popular supplement nowadays in like the anti-aging sector.

NAD, NMR,

or NMN, NR, niacinamide.

They're all essentially doing very similar things, but something like that actually helps to repair the cells that the DNA damage is causing.

A couple other things that help, ketones, like those are popular now too, like drinkable ketone esters.

Those actually have a DNA repairing effect, an anti-inflammatory effect.

And then like really good antioxidants, like I gave you C60 that I picked up at the expo.

That's one.

Hydrogen tablets is another one.

Yeah, they're tasty.

Hydrogen tablets,

vitamin C, vitamin E, antioxidants can really help as well.

So it's like you're just cognizant of your exposure.

You're cognizant of the damage.

You protect your sleeping space.

And then you use antioxidants and magnesium and NAD and ketones as like supplements on a regular basis if you're someone who's hyper-connected.

And that just helps the body to feel better.

And your whole house is Ethernet, right?

No Wi-Fi routers.

I do, yeah, I do Cat7 metal shielded Ethernet cable in the house.

But I had the luxury of building the house and be able to choose that.

But yeah, each room has an Ethernet outlet.

And it annoys people when they come over.

They're like, I gotta get the Wi-Fi real quick.

We can't.

Like, we don't have it.

I think there's a back-end way to go into the router and flip it off.

I don't even know how.

So there's no Wi-Fi at the house.

And people come over to the house and like out in our guest house.

And sometimes they'll come out of that thing and be like, dude, I slept amazing for like 10 hours.

And I think part of it is because it's a low EMF environment.

So yeah, there's Ethernet cables.

So if you go into a room, like it's super old school, but you know, 20 years ago, nobody would have thought this was weird.

You plug an Ethernet cable into the wall and into your device.

And I even have Ethernet adapters for the phone if I want to connect the phone for like an update because some things will only update on Wi-Fi, but they'll also update on Ethernet.

And then, yeah, there's dirty electricity filters in each outlet.

I got to buy those.

What brand do you use for those?

Greenwave.

Greenwave.

Yeah, the Greenwave and Stetzer are two brands.

And, you know, when you look at the breaker room, like this room might have one or two breakers that feed into it.

Usually each outlet is associated with a certain breaker.

You don't have to put one into every outlet in the room.

You just have to have one in each outlet that's fed by a specific breaker.

Got it.

In most rooms, that's like one or two.

And that'll limit the amount of AC surges of electricity that come into anything that's plugged in in that room.

And then, you know, the other thing is like, there's a lot of these protective devices.

I think the science is kind of weak on them.

Like Aristech, Somavetic, Blue Shield.

Oh, I have an Aristech on my phone.

You know what?

Yeah.

And I have one too.

And for me, it's like, well,

I would put like the research that they've done on it.

I give it like a solid five on a one to ten scale.

Wow.

As far as the evidence that it's doing something, as far as red blood cell clumping and some of the what they call the dark-filled microscopy studies.

But it's not like ironclad that it works.

however it's you know i do that i do the defender shield case i use a grounding mat in my office you know i i i have you know one of those somavetic devices i just because i'm a podcaster in this space random stuff show up and i plug it in and run it and it's not like it's going to hurt you but some will scramble the signal.

Some will produce a signal that blocks the signal or that overrides it.

Some are like, you know, quantum technology devices that supposedly create a beneficial signal that helps to heal or protect you from some of the damage.

And yeah, the science on that, on any of the stuff I just mentioned, is not like ironclad again.

But what is ironclad is, yeah, protect your sleeping space, use antioxidants, use dirty electricity filters, don't use Wi-Fi if you can use Ethernet and just some of the basic stuff.

Yeah.

And then all the quantum magical woo-woo spooky devices, I mean, they might work.

I'm not 100% convinced, but they're not going to hurt.

Yeah.

That's when you get to Brian Johnson levels, I think.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Exactly.

I know you're big on grounding.

Are you able to ground in those paloovas or do you have to go barefoot?

I mean, most shoes that have rubber soles, you get a small amount of conductivity from concrete or pavement or, you know, even indoors, the ground is somewhat conductive.

But you need to either be barefoot or they have shoes like whatever, plugs and earth runners and these are shoes that have like copper plugs in the bottom.

Yeah.

And so you can be walking around and not be a dirty hippie or stepping on needles or glass or whatever and still be grounded.

On Amazon, you can even buy straps that you can outfit into any existing shoes.

If I was a good little biohacker, I'd have them on these, but they're called earthy straps.

And like a little piece goes in the bottom and then wraps around the top.

And so you can earth any existing shoe as well.

You don't have to be grounded all the time.

Like it's like the goal isn't to be ground all the time.

Most of the research shows 20 to 60 minutes of daily exposure to the surface of the planet or using some kind of technology that assists you with that, like a grounding mat that you could put on your bed.

Like they make little sheets that you can put underneath the top sheet of the bed.

I have them.

I feel fantastic.

Really?

Yeah.

Okay.

Number one thing I notice is it's like harder to get out of bed in the morning.

Wow.

I feel like it just kind of pulls me into the bed and it's like a magnet.

Which brand do you use for that?

Anti-aging systems.

No, anti-aging systems make a makes a mattress topper.

The one I have right now is made by Ultimate Longevity.

Okay.

And it's just, and my pillows are grounded too.

It's just a cable that goes into the grounding outlet of the wall.

Wow.

Well, I have one friend who literally drops the cable out the second story bedroom and plugs it via a metal stake into the ground because technically that's safer than the house grounding outlet because you get more AC power surges to the house, which shouldn't be an issue if you have a dirty electricity filter, but these are all like super subtle nuances.

But then in my office, I actually have a grounding mat that I stand on and it does have a cable that goes out to the backyard and has a metal stake in it through the ground.

Damn.

And it's just, it's, I mean, it's not damn.

It's just very simple.

It's nice, right?

Like a lot of people are like, oh, that's crazy.

It's like, no, not really.

It's like all you're doing is using like, you know, like sixth grade physics and understanding that, like, yeah, metal carries a signal.

So if you put the metal stake in the ground and there's a metal conducting cable that goes in and there's a conductive surface that metal cable is on, then whatever is coming up through the ground is now coming up through you inside if that cable is attached.

And so that's all there is in my office.

Same thing in the bed.

It's just that instead of it going into the ground, it's going into the grounding outlet of the house and if a house is properly grounded then you're pulling up the same electrons that are helpful from the ground except you're getting them on your bed during a night of sleep yeah and you could also just like walk outside barefoot you know what the number one way to ground is though it's like it's like 20x more than you get if you're yeah well the beach yes but specifically the ocean ocean like being in and it can actually be an ocean a lake a river they all have minerals as well the ocean has more minerals obviously but any body of water water that you get in and submerge in, you get the grounding effects multiplied a ton.

Wow.

So, like, the very best thing you could do to feel good and decrease inflammation naturally would be like walk on the beach in the sunshine and jump in the water.

And you're just going to feel, I can't do that in the snowy, icy Washington.

You can't do that in Vegas now, but yeah, or in Vegas.

But yeah, I mean, you can simulate this stuff at home, right?

You can literally have like magnesium salts in a bath.

And like, even a bathtub is technically grounded if you have metal faucets and they're, they're actually going down and touching the ground.

So you can put mineral salts in your bathtub and take a bath.

Interesting.

Why is it 20 times higher in the ocean?

Water is very conductive, and your entire body is submerged.

So every single like cell is getting exposed to way more water

submerged.

Wow.

What's your take on psychedelics micro-dosing?

That seems to be a pretty hot thing recently.

That's a

360.

180?

Not a 360.

It's a 180.

I think that

so psychedelics are

way more powerful than I think a lot of people realize.

And

when you hear of someone going off and doing like DMT or ayahuasca and saying, I never believed in God and I came back and I believe in God now.

And then you hear about all these reports of like green fairies and, you know, and entities and praying mantises and all these things that people tend to interact with and collectively see yeah you know on like a heroic dose of mushrooms or ayahuasca or dmt or you know in in some cases you know lisergimide or ergo or fungus like lsd

it

it really lends credence to the idea that in the occult in witchcraft in sorcery like a lot of these same compounds are what were traditionally used to divine with the gods.

And I realize we're delving into

an area of discussion that in a a modern scientific area is a lot of times laughed at because, you know, since the scientific revolution, the idea that, oh, there are demons, there are angels, there are entities, there are powers, there's a whole spiritual world, that's something that's become a little less commonly accepted.

Even though I think we are deeply spiritual beings.

I mean, I think that sex is sacred and worship is sacred and prayer is sacred and

in meditation, you're tapping into different dimensions.

And like, I do not think that there's simply no sacred spirituality that is associated with our existence whatsoever and I do think that a lot of things that people experience when they're in that space are of a spiritual nature yeah I don't know if it's another dimension I don't know if it's the same dimension we're in now but you know a lot of these these things are invisible whatever but You know, back to, you know, Timothy Leary and Atlas Huxley and a lot of the people that introduced a lot of these compounds into modern society.

I mean, most of these guys came straight from witchcraft and the occult and sorcery.

And these are things that were used for astral travel and for divination and talking to the gods and, you know, consulting the oracle.

And in many cases, they were reserved for the high priesthood or the shaman or the sorcerer.

And

when you look at their rampant availability now, you know, in terms of just being able to drop in and do psilocybin or DMT or ayahuasca or whatever, I think you have a lot of people jumping deep into spiritual realms and interactions with entities

that really,

you know, pardon my language, don't have any business.

I mean, if you look at,

let's say that we are actually interacting with entities, gods, demons, whatever.

Yeah.

Well, these, these are spiritual powers that have been interacting with and arguably

altering in some fashion or influencing in some fashion human beings for thousands of years.

And who are you?

Some like, you know, 21-year-old in your New York City City apartment loft with your friend who got his weekend shaman certification, who are you to say you're going to just like jump into that room and be fine, not come out with like some kind of, you know, possession or altered state or, or, or, or some type of spiritual modification that might not have been what you're looking for.

And, you know, the New York magazine did a crazy like 10-part series on this a couple of years ago.

For every nine people who find God and, you know, and discover love and kumbaya, let's all hold hands.

There's like one person who gets schizophrenia or bipolar, or what I would argue is possibly even like a possession in need of an exorcism.

And these are like dangerous medicines that are to be much more highly respected than I think that they are.

Is there a time and a place for something like trauma therapy or, you know, or, you know,

death preparation or something like that that these could be used for possibly under heavy supervision and not with like some random dude who you just met in Peru, who you flew down to and you know, paid to stay at the resort, who comes from a lineage of whatever sorcerers that love to like possess Westerners so they come back and pay for more treatments.

I mean, there's so much more to this world that dictates that I think it needs a lot more research and respect and preparation and integration for anybody who's going to do those kinds of medicines.

On the flip side, like I'm a Christian, like, i believe that like god created everything for a reason and like i don't think wine is bad or booze is bad or like tobacco is bad i think it's the delivery mechanism and the amount i think the doses and the poison so psilocybin to go like see a show or go hunting or engage in something else for which increased sensory perception is nice great i mean like whatever half gram max you don't need to take a heroic dose in order to get benefits from same thing with lsd like you know take 10 to 20 micrograms of LSD and you're gonna have a great day of focus and productivity and you don't have to trip out and see like you know matrix geometric figures coming out your computer screen to be able to benefit from something like that even micro dosing with ayahuasca for better social ability or anything so I think that

These, I don't think there's anything inherently bad about plant medicines.

I think the intention, the volume, the setting all influence whether or not they're actually going to be dangerous for someone or affect them spiritually in a way that they didn't anticipate or weren't prepared for.

Yeah.

Wow.

I did not expect that to

be awesome.

You opened up a can of worms.

Yeah.

That's obviously

we could talk for hours about all the different medicines and their history.

But yeah, I mean, and I went through a period of time where I used pretty high doses of a lot of stuff.

Oh, wow.

And,

you know, and, you know, I saw a lot of these entities and experienced a lot of those things.

And always, I always just had this thought at the back of my mind that something didn't quite seem right

that

anybody could just jump in.

When again, you look at the history of this stuff, and these are like for the priests and the shamans and the sorcerers and the divinators, and not just for the average person who isn't quite sure what's going on in life.

So they should probably go take some of these things and then lay back on their, you know, on their bed, drooling, and figure out what the world has to say to the deep, deep spiritual world.

Oh, that is fascinating.

But yeah, there does seem to be a divide with the scientific side and the spiritual side, but you've dabbled in both lanes.

Yeah, which is crazy because I mean, you look at like whatever, psilocybin for

nicotine addiction, right?

It seems like a very scientific venture going on.

You know, Johns Hopkins is overseeing that research.

I had Matthew, what's his name, who's doing a lot of that research on my podcast, and we talked about it, and he sent me the entire protocol that they're using.

And it's not just psilocybin, it's an entire workbook full of integration and introspection and visualization.

And there's a lot more to it than just taking psilocybin and not wanting cigarettes anymore.

But this stuff is being studied on a scientific level.

Yet at the same time, you ask anybody who goes through the experience, like, that was super spiritual, like in a way I never even thought existed.

And so it's interesting how we are in a post-scientific revolution era and at the same time,

like discovering through things like medicines that, oh, there is this spiritual world that we keep trying to deny exists and we have to prove everything through materialism.

But it's like, we're really the first couple of generations of humans who have ever existed on this planet who haven't had some kind of a deep interaction with spiritual world, with other powers, with, you know, with aspects of divination, with demons, with angels, et cetera.

So for us, it's weird, but all of humankind for most of history would have been like, well, yeah, of course.

Of course, there's a spirit in that tree and there's spirits in the rocks and there's a water demon and there's an angel.

Like, yeah, it's just weird for us because, you know, we've got computers and phones now.

Yeah, I don't know if we'll ever be able to physically prove it.

It's one of those things where it's if you experience it, you know.

I think if something is physically provable, it actually takes some of the sacred spirituality out of it.

Right.

Right.

Yeah.

I'm, I'm big on it, though.

I've had on a lot of interesting guests on that side of the space.

It's, it's fascinating stuff, but I'm a little scared to do ayahuasca, I'm not going to lie.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Is that something you did?

I have, yeah.

I mean, that's what I would be scared of would be like, you know, DMT or, you know, something that's a little bit more more of a rockier world experience than ayahuasca yeah um i wouldn't be well the only i wouldn't be scared of it in terms of the discomfort what i would be scared about is

again back to the idea of well what if there is a shaman or an entity that does not have your best interests in mind are you going to come out of that experience under the possession of or the influence of someone or something that you really didn't have a desire to be influenced by there's that danger and i think that danger is not significant, but I think it's probably maybe 10% of folks like

10 people.

So it's there, which is, you know, even when you're there.

If I told you you're going to a plane and one out of every 10 people were going to crash and die, it's like, well, you think twice about it.

No, it's there.

Even just simple astral projection, it's there.

Yeah.

You know, you could get taken over.

But DMT is one of those things, like, you release it when you die.

So for me, I feel like just waiting for that rather than just taking it.

You release it when you die, but I mean, you also release it through holotropic breathwork.

Oh, you do?

Yeah, absolutely.

Stanislav Groff, who came up with holotropic breathwork, you know, was trying to find something other than a lisergimide to get into that same state.

And through 60 to 90 minutes of intense breathwork, you get flooded with DMT.

What?

And the experience, you know, and I've done hefty doses of DMT and I've done hefty doses of breath work.

And the experience is not only

better with the breath work because you're climbing to the top of Mount Everest instead of getting dropped off there by a helicopter.

So there's actually work being done.

But then you finish and you can just like go have dinner with your friend or whatever.

Like you're not just like racked and serotonin and depleted and got to take 5 HTP and glutathione and magnesium for a couple of days and recover.

And, you know, some people use DMT regularly and would laugh at that notion that it significantly alters neurochemistry to where you got to recover from it, but it does.

No, you could tell people to take too many psychedelics or something off about them.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I have some friends who are into psychedelic and they're just like starting to forget things more frequently.

Yeah.

It's like, dude, have you just like fried too many neurons?

Things like hyperdrive too often, you know?

Yeah.

So no, there is something weird there.

But yeah, I'm a fan of the microdosing.

You mentioned doing that for certain activities.

Yeah, I think micro-dosing is fantastic.

I have nothing against it.

In the same way that like I will have a glass of like organic wine with dinner or like I'll make a cocktail out of some nice liqueur.

Like I've got a big thing for Polankovich Croatian liqueur right now that I'll have with some apple cider vinegar on the club soda.

I haven't been drunk in like 13 years.

Right.

And so again, like like I microdose with alcohol and it's fantastic.

And

the hormetic effect of alcohol is amazing.

People say, well, acetaldehyde and methylglyoxyl and all these things that it produces in the body is a poison.

And it is.

But the inflammation from exercise is a poison.

And heat stress and mineral loss that you get in a sauna is poison.

And if you stay in the cold too long, it'll kill you.

And bitters and herbs and plants and spices from all the superfood vegetables people talk about are chock full of plant defense mechanisms that would destroy your gut in large amounts, but that induce cellular resilience in small amounts.

And the same thing can be said for alcohol.

If you actually look at the studies across the board, there's a decreased all-cause risk of mortality in people who have small amounts of alcohol each day.

The only situation in which that isn't the case is if you don't differentiate between small amounts of alcohol every day.

Let's say, like you average seven drinks a week, but you don't differentiate between all seven of those are on Saturday night versus you had one drink a night with a slow hormetic effect of alcohol, very similar to running.

I told you, running is good for you.

You should run whatever, 30 miles a week.

Well, you could run four miles a day and feel pretty good, or you could like go out and run 28, 29, 30 miles on a weekend and feel horrific.

So it's all about the dose, giving your body enough to where it's able to be able to recover from that and exercise, heat, cold, running, alcohol, whatever.

It's small micro doses that tend to accumulate consistently to produce a cellular strengthening effect rather than having it all in large amounts.

Interesting.

So a glass of wine a day ain't too bad for you though.

Exactly.

So the same with micro-dosing.

It's like, yeah, psilocybin is great for you.

Well, you don't take eight grams.

I mean,

like take like a quarter gram with some lion's mane and niacin with your coffee in the morning and you're going to be fantastic.

Yeah.

You're big on coffee, I noticed.

Well, I mean, like, I have a company that sells coffee.

So that's part of it.

I'm like,

I'm kind of into coffee.

Like, I, like, my wife went down and bought a coffee at the, at the, the hotel this morning, asked me if I wanted one.

And I said no, because my energy levels felt fine.

Yeah.

And

I will have like coffee one morning and I'll have like some,

I like that four sigmatic mushroom tea.

So I'll have that one morning.

And sometimes I'll have like a cup of kratom and sometimes I'll have like some kind of different tea that's like there's a tea I get from Hawaii, Kauai Pharmacy in Hawaii, where it's just a blend of a bunch of different plants.

I'm more of a fan of drinking something hot in the morning that makes me happy and makes me have a good poop, whether it's coffee or tea or mushroom coffee or whatever.

Like I'm just like a hot morning beverage guy.

Yeah, it's a good way to start the day, honestly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's funny how little drinks like that can make your day.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But I mean, like, I grew up

drinking coffee from a very early age.

My dad was a gourmet coffee roaster.

Okay.

And I was homeschooled, and so I was home most of the day.

So most of my day, I would just be smelling the roasting green coffee beans.

And I'd go out there and he repaired espresso machines and he'd be giving me shots when I was 13 to compare, you know, the brew from Costa Rica versus Jamaica versus Tanzania and Peaberry.

And so I think I've developed a pretty hefty caffeine tolerance since I was very young and a taste for coffee.

So I have an appreciation for coffee.

My mom still owns a coffee shop.

Yeah.

And then I own a

Keon, we make coffee.

And so, yeah, like I'm a fan of coffee, but I don't drink as much as I think a lot of people think I

runs in the family, a little family business.

That's cool.

Are they still doing that?

Uh, my dad is

so he

figured out this is interesting.

He figured out when he was repairing espresso machines and working with coffee shops that the number

one thing besides the quality and the roast of the bean that determined the flavor and the quality of the coffee was the water that was being used to make the coffee or that was feeding into the espresso machine.

And he got so into water and he started like installing water filtration systems into coffee shops he was working with to give them better coffee that he he like went into the water filtration industry instead and so now he designs like whole house and farm based water filters wow incredible they're like double carbon block and reverse osmosis filters and the whole i'm the only person in the family who doesn't work for him so

well no my my brother's a farmer you know i do what i do and then my uh my sister and my other brother work for my dad okay customer service and product development.

And so my mom and my dad are divorced, but my mom still runs the coffee shop.

My dad and her started together.

So my dad does water filtration and my mom does the coffee shop.

That's cool.

Now, the thing with these filters, right, because Brita's getting sued right now pretty heavily.

What's your take?

Yeah.

For false claims.

They were saying they cleaned 99% of whatever.

What's your take on just water filters in general?

So

I think I don't know about how much Britta filters.

If it's not a reverse osmosis or a double carbon block, you're probably not filtering out fine enough particulates, whatever, your neighbor's birth control pills or fluoride or chlorine or whatever.

They actually don't add fluoride to the municipal water supply where I live in Spokane, so we're not drinking it anyways.

I don't think it's like a governmental mind control experiment like some people do.

It basically,

it's called a halide, and so it will attach in the thyroid gland to the area where the thyroid hormones are supposed to be attaching to or where iodine is supposed to be attaching to.

And so it can lower things like thyroid function and metabolic rate.

So you just don't want a lot of fluoride in your system.

It's not the worst thing on the planet.

I think chlorine is worse, but I try not to consume too much fluoridated water.

The countertop filters, the pour over pitchers, they just don't have a fine enough particulate filtration for you to be getting everything out.

It's better than nothing.

The problem with the really good filtration systems like reverse osmosis, particularly is you filter out so much, you don't even get minerals in the water.

And so you have to like put salt on your food and take electrolytes and you know, use little mineral packets.

You don't have to put it in every glass of water you drink, but you do have to realize if you have a really good water filtration system, you're going to need more electrolytes and more minerals.

And some fancy reverse osmosis systems, they have what's called a remineralization unit and remineralize the water after it's been filtered.

If you need just like like a countertop solution and you don't want to do a whole house water filtration system, the one company I know of that does a countertop reverse osmosis that does not get bacteria buildup in the water, which is important because most reverse osmosis countertop systems, they have a basin and that's notorious for building up bacteria.

This one has an antibacterial lining in the basin and does a really good job with reverse osmosis filtration.

And that one's called the Aqua True.

aqua true so i think for a countertop or like a pitcher like experience the aqua true is good and then if you want whole house um i think the ones that my dad makes are pretty good nice yeah that's interesting yeah now i actually don't know your age but you just look healthy overall what type of diet are you on

well

I always warn people if they ask that question, like, my diet is not your diet, right?

There's this old book that was written back in the 60s by Roger Williams called, what's it called, Biochemical Individuality.

Okay.

And it's got all these crazy pictures in it, like the 10 different sizes of the stomach and the pancreas and the liver.

And different people have different vitamin D excretion rates and different people have

different salt excretion rates.

And a lot of that's based on genetics.

Some of it can be based on whatever your

health needs, like mold or lime or Epstein-Barr or any sicknesses that you've had, et cetera.

But the idea is that

the ketogenic diet that maybe helped me lose weight or feel better is going to screw you over because you've got, say, like an APO E4 gene in your brain that would dictate predisposition to Alzheimer's or dementia in response to high intake of saturated fats.

Or you have poor gallbladder and liver function.

And so fats are just going to ruin you and give you like floaty, fatty, gassy diarrhea.

Or you've got,

you know, maybe you have sub-Saharan African or Southeast Asian genetic factors that dictate you're going to do better on a higher amount of carbohydrates and citrusy fruits and produce.

So I think that it's best to do a genetic test and do a blood test and figure out what kind of diet that you're genetically and biologically predisposed to feel best with.

Because for some people, it's going to be high carb, low fat, other people be high fat, low carb, whatever.

Painting with a broad brush, and I suspect this is because of some type of human origin in the Fertile Crescent.

Some semblance of a Mediterranean diet seems to work well for a very large number of people.

And that's not like unlimited breadsticks and chain bowls, a salad, olive garden, Mediterranean.

That's like, if you look at the Mediterranean diet, it has like religious fasting during certain periods of the year from high amounts of protein and red meat and a huge variety of plants and herbs and spices.

And it's a lifestyle that includes a lot of sunshine and physical activity and outdoors and eating with people.

And so I think that if you look at, despite them having a a little bit of

controversy, these blue zones, you know, some people say, oh, the birth records aren't right or they're very small sample sizes or whatever.

But if you look at Lomalinda or Sardinia or Nicoya or Costa Rica or whatever, there's not the same diet that all these people are eating.

Like some are eating tons of fermented meat and others are eating a more plant-forward diet like Lomalinda or Oka.

Now we're getting a lot of purple potatoes and rice and fish.

But if you step back and look at it, almost every blue zone or area where people are living in a disproportionately long period of time, or more specifically, a disproportionately high number of centenarians, you see some semblance of fasting, either religious or cultural or detoxification-based fasting.

Having certain periods of time where you have programmed your life to not be eating a lot of food.

You have low intake of processed and ultra-processed foods, the same ones we were talking about earlier that would cause poor jaw formation, but that also would introduce things like added sugars, preservatives, colors, vegetable oils, oils, things like that into the diet.

You see a high amount of physical activity and sunshine.

You see what I would consider to be the most important variable.

eating in like a parasympathetically driven rest and digest state with people, family, community, friends, family dinners, prayer before the meals, chewing your food a lot, eating slowly, you know, having a giant meal with family members in the evening versus like sucking down your superfood smoothie when you're driving 60 miles an hour down the highway on the way to work.

Like it's like a mindfulness, joyful celebration of food.

And that is no matter the dietary composition.

And you even see things like micro-dosing with alcohol in a lot of these populations, like we were talking about earlier, and you know, certain things that you don't necessarily see as the top of the totem pole as far as dietary recommendations in the U.S., but that I think we can learn from.

And so

you really have to, in my opinion, step back and look what your body needs and then say, okay, well, no matter what diet I get on, I'm going to do some semblance of fasting.

I'm going to avoid processed foods as much as I can.

I'm going to eat with people in a mindful, relaxed state as much as possible.

I'm going to eat a wide variety of plants and herbs and spices.

And I'm going to

just basically be mindful of food and celebrate food and not just eat it as like, you know, quickly consumed fuel.

So my diet,

I eat

what I've called in the past almost like a bastardized nose-to-tail carnivore diet.

What I mean by that is, I eat a lot of organ meats, like liver, heart, kidney, sweet breads, you know, oxtail, bone marrow, bone broth.

Almost every day, I have some type of organ meat, or if I'm traveling, some type of organ meat capsule or glandular.

Most of my fruit is very low-glycemic index fruit.

So, I like blueberries,

raspberries,

you know, pomegranate or pomegranate extracts or pomegranate derivatives.

I do a lot of those.

Even though I don't eat much fruit in general, when I do, I don't do a lot of like melons and stone fruits and things like that.

I do a lot of honey.

I do a lot of salt.

Most of the vegetables I eat are mashed or pureed or boiled or steamed or pressure cooked or fermented or treated in such a way to make them very digestible.

And I have typically small amounts of those with each meal.

And then I take some supplements, but yeah, it's like really, really good, clean meat and fish, really, really good, digestible vegetables, and plants, and herbs and spices, low-sugar berries, honey, salt, and then just like antioxidant-rich beverages like tea and coffee and wine.

The things you won't see in my diet are a large amount of seed oils and vegetable oils, added sugars, processed foods, you know, lean chicken breast and broccoli and rice, like the old school bodybuilding approach.

Just like a real nutrient dense approach to eating in general with a focus on eating food that's been rendered digestible through a process of again soaking and sprouting and fermentation so you know my wife and i always have different things going on like she constantly has a batch of sourdough bread and she's making sprouts from like you know from lentils and broccoli seeds and all sorts of different seeds to unlock the nutrients and to make them more digestible nice and then i've always got a batch of water kefir and i got a batch of coconut milk kefir And, you know, I got a batch of coconut yogurt.

And so there's all sorts of different little ferments and things growing around the house because we're constantly treating in a slow food preparation way a lot of the things that would cause digestive distress, like dairy or seeds and nuts or even plants in some cases.

But the process of using old school methods to break down a lot of this stuff makes them a lot more digestible.

It's just the art of learning how to prepare your food.

And the same way that, like, if you were a hunter, you wouldn't jump out of a tree with a knife in your teeth, like a pirate, and just like, you know, slice the throat of a deer or whatever,

and then just like start eating it, right?

You'd have to fill dress it, and sometimes you're dry-aging the meat, and you're cleaning it, and you're doing all these things.

Well, you don't just go, like, pick a stalk of wheat out of the ground and start chewing on it because you got like lectins and glutens and digestive distressors because that plant doesn't have teeth and hooves and claws and nails, but it does have plant defense mechanisms that cause it to be pooped out by a mammal after that mammal has eaten it, but that can cause digestive distress.

So you just have to step back and say, okay, I want to eat this food.

How can I make this food as digestible and nutrient-dense as possible?

And that's generally the way that I approach my diet.

Yeah.

And when it comes to doing that from meat, are you eating it raw like Liver King or are you cooking the organ meat?

I do raw liver, but liver can have parasites in it.

So the trick is you want to freeze it for a couple of weeks and that kills the the parasites.

Liver also can have an off taste to it.

And so that kefir that I said that I, so kefir, you just, I buy kefir grains from this company called Cultures from Health.

And then I pour milk on top of it and let it just sit at room temp for about 12 hours and that ferments the kefir grains in the milk.

And that's what kefir is.

Okay.

And so I use kefir and I soak the liver because usually if you soak.

a meat in a dairy medium like buttermilk or kefir work really well it draws out a lot of the gamey flavor and the enzymes in the fermented dairy help to pre-digest the meat or the organ meat.

So, the way I do it is I soak the liver for like 24 hours in kefir and then rinse it and pulverize it in a blender and pour it in little molds and then keep those in the freezer.

I pop a couple of those in my smoothie in the morning, a very small amount, like maybe an ounce or two.

Okay, um, and then all the other meat or organ meat that I eat is like cooked, like all you know, whatever sous heart for a few hours, and then fry it up in butter, a cast cast iron skillet.

Or, you know, I'll do the same thing with kidney or, you know, most, most, I do a little bit of sashimi and sushi.

Yeah.

I love me some bone marrow, man.

Yeah.

Bone marrow is amazing.

Roasted bone marrow, and then you got to hook up with my wife and get her sourdough bread.

Yeah.

Sourdough bread with bone marrow, some really good honey and a pinch of salt.

It's like the best sandwich ever.

Make me want to go to the sandwich on Star Wars.

There's a restaurant here called Bovettes that has the best bone marrow.

Oh, man.

I'm in.

Yeah.

You mentioned fasting earlier.

Now, how many days or hours are you doing for fasting?

I don't like to fast for a long time because I'm very, I have a really high metabolism and I'm lean and I think about food a lot.

So I go for 12 to 16 hours every day without eating.

What that means is like if I, let's say I go out and I'm out late tonight and I don't finish dinner until like 11 because I'm in Vegas, I won't eat again until 11 a.m.

I'm very competitive with myself.

Most of the time, I will finish most of my eating by 9 p.m.

And so I usually eat around 9.30 or 10 a.m.

So I'm getting like 12 and a half, 13 hours of just like good cellular cleanup and giving the gut a break every day.

And that means no cream or sugar and the coffee.

That means no like a random handful of almonds when I get up because they're there or a nibble on this.

Like I'm pretty, pretty good about that and I'm pretty consistent with it.

And I think if you're consistent with intermittent fasting, you don't have to go on these like major mega fasts all the time.

I try a few times a year.

And this is like since my job involves trying stuff out, a lot of times this is just'cause I have to anyways.

I like I have tried the Prolon fast, which is like a special five-day kit where you're eating a certain

small number of calories, but a certain number of calories for four to five days in a row.

And there's very interesting research showing that that approach can mimic a lot of the longevity benefits that you get from not eating any food at all.

It's called a fasting mimicking diet or an FMD.

I've done a juice fast where we're just drinking juices for like five days.

Absolutely hated it.

My wife did it.

She liked it.

I didn't like it.

It smelled horrible.

I've done a protein protein-restricted fast where you're just not eating a lot of protein and eating more vegetables and carbohydrates and fats for a few days.

The longest, like no food at all fast that I've done is two and a half days.

Wow.

I mean, it's great.

Like once you get longer than 16 hours, that's where a lot of the longevity benefits kick in.

But I think like I'm more of like a...

It's called a high energy flux lifestyle.

Like I do a lot of sauna and ice and cold plunges and exercise and kettlebells kettlebells and breath work and I'm walking like 10,000 steps a day and I lift weights a few times a week and then I eat a lot of really good, clean, nutrient-dense food to support that lifestyle.

And I enjoy that and I feel really good with that.

And to me, it's just like more fun than just like doing yoga and fasting.

Yeah.

That's just me.

Like I just like this higher energy flux lifestyle.

Yeah.

Sounds like you found a good balance.

Some people take it really extreme.

I think they do like seven-day fasts.

I'm like, God damn.

I'm not into that.

I'm just naturally so skinny like my dad fasts because he's eastern orthodox and it's part of his religion yeah and he's just like i love my dad but he's frail like he's just frail and like i have his genetics like you can look at me like i'm i'm hyper lean your body fat's like what's hyper like 3 500 calories a day damn if i start to fast like i'm just gonna i'm gonna go into the latter half of my life already you know as a guy who's already skinny and already is a hard gainer has a hard time keeping muscle on it's like i would rather like have a little meat on my bones at least whatever i can get on.

And like, yeah, like you said, I'm like three and a half percent body fat.

Wait, you're three and a half percent?

And, and I eat like a horse.

So

I did, and this isn't for everybody.

This is back to the different diets for different people, but I'm just like, I, I'm not a guy who should even be fasting that much for my testosterone, for my thyroid, et cetera.

And that's just my genetic predisposition.

Yeah.

You know, but if I was built like, I don't know, like.

Jonah Hill or whatever, yeah, I need to fast a little bit more.

So yeah, it just depends on your predisposition, too.

We'll end it off on this.

What's your take on parasite cleanse?

I do them twice a year.

It seems like there's some benefits.

I was thinking about this the other day because it's kind of funny because there's like this thing with people doing, have you ever heard of helminthic therapy?

No.

Okay.

So I actually tried this out once just to see what it felt like.

People will use like...

whipworms and tapeworms as therapy to make the immune system stronger theoretically under this thing called like the good friends hypothesis where if you introduce beneficial parasites into your body or organisms into your body that they induce an immune response that strengthens your immune system.

Kind of similar to like the hormetic effect of alcohol, but a little different.

But then there's this other camp that of people like taking like Panicure dog dewormer off label and using like ivermectin, you know, horse dewormer paste as a health hack.

And I recently interviewed this guy named Jonathan Otto about this.

It was fascinating.

There actually is some evidence that parasitic infection is linked to chronic disease, particularly cancer.

And because of the wide range of foods and, you know, food shipping and restaurants and

exposure to potentially uncleanly environments that we're in on a daily basis, even just, I don't know, pooping in the toilet at the airport.

Your freaking like rectum is like hanging out down there

in the same air as like a thousand other people's poop particles have been in.

You're telling me like there's not stuff getting spread around?

Yeah.

Like I guarantee that, like, if you get itchy anus, sometimes it's a parasite.

So I think that

there is a benefit to killing them off every once in a while.

I've done parasite cleanses, and you feel like I don't know how you felt, but I felt like crap when I've done a couple of them.

Oh, yeah, just like on the toilet all the time.

And it's like you have to keep telling yourself, okay, this is just for a few days.

It's just, I think the longest I made it on mine was like a week.

I was supposed to do it for four weeks.

Damn, I just can't do this anymore.

Like, I got to go live life.

I can't be like hanging out by a toilet all the time.

So, I think that

there's definitely something to to it.

I just wish there was a way to cleanse yourself of parasites without it being so disruptive to

life in general.

And like there's some,

there's some theories about that, like using a little bit of oil of oregano, like a few times a day for a month.

That's like a gentle parasite cleanse that is supposed to be beneficial.

And I've used oil of oregano before.

I used to sell it with my supplements company.

I use it a lot more then because I knew a guy and I got a deal.

But oil of oregano can be a good idea.

There's another really good product called Para X by Symbiotica.

It's pretty decent.

That's a little bit gentler.

I'm actually, it's kind of interesting because I'm supposed to get a colonoscopy at the end of this month because I have a high family risk of colon cancer.

And I'm kind of tired.

Like I just recently ordered what's supposed to be a one-day parasite cleanse.

And I'm going to do that the day before my colonoscopy because I'm like, well, look, I got to be on a toilet anyways doing this colonoscopy.

So I might as well just like do it all at once.

So the last thing I'll say is that I think there's some false advertising in the parasite cleansing community because people hold up these big, long, stringy things.

Like nine times out of 10, that's just like mucus threads because your colonic flora and

your colonic cells, anytime you're introducing like a harsh change to them, it's like if you were to, I don't know, snort Hoppe or get the allergies or whatever, like your nasal passages go, what the hell?

And they start producing a lot of snot, a lot of mucus.

Your colon does the same thing.

It'll produce long mucus threads anytime you're starting to cleanse or cause it to engage in peristalsis much more frequently than what it's used to.

So a lot of what people are saying are parasites is just mucus coming out your butt.

But that being said, I think that people have parasites and I think that thinking about them at least or getting rid of them is a good idea.

I feel that.

I like that.

Well, Ben, it's been a blast, man.

Anything you want to close off with or promote?

I mean, we've talked about psilocybin and parasites and how your phone could be silently pointed.

So I think we covered it.

Covered a lot.

Yeah, I think we covered it.

Yeah.

All right.

That was fun.

Yeah.

Well, thanks for watching, guys.

Thanks for coming on, man.

Guilds, man.

Yeah.

See you guys tomorrow.