Doing $750K a Month, Building Out Sales Teams & Running Paid Ads | Dennis Deheza DSH #284

If I'm crushing it, it's mainly because I put in the work without expecting anything in return first.

And I feel like most people have that switched around.

But rather, they should start thinking, hey, let me just, I kind of like saying this, why don't I just multiply the time that I want to be successful by 10 and then understand that that's going to be the actual time that it's going to get me even close to success.

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All right.

My Bolivian brother, Dennis Teja, coming on the show today.

Yeah, man.

How's it going?

Good, man.

How are you?

It's fun to connect about that because, like I said, my fiancé is Bolivian.

I don't meet many Bolivian people.

So represent, bro.

I know, especially out here in Vegas.

Yeah.

And especially ones that are business, honestly.

And you're doing eight figures a year.

I'd love to dive into that.

You basically build out sales teams, right?

Yeah.

So mainly what I do is there's a lot of these high-ticket offers that have lots of leverage with either lots of followers or they're an authority in the space.

And honestly, a lot of times what ends up happening is the owner knows how to market themselves.

They know how to sell a product in regards to the front end.

But a lot of times...

they don't really know how to actually build a sales team.

And what that means is they might be the only person who's actually selling you know their product or their program.

And that usually gets to around like 50K per month, maybe 100K per month.

But eventually, if you want to scale those businesses, you definitely need closers, setters, DM setters, different departments, of course.

But primarily

I focus on just building those sales teams to make sure that they can effectively just have the time they need to do, which is mainly focused on marketing, honestly, every day.

And then just making sure I can recruit the best people and train them and manage them as well right so you come in when the business is already established doing at least 50 to 100k a month and from there you help them scale to maybe 250 500 right yeah 100 so it really depends um based on the leverage and i'm probably going to say that word a lot but um if somebody is doing even 10 20 or even 30k per month who probably doesn't have as much revenue coming in or cash collected um and if i see that business and they have the capability of scaling to six, seven figures a month, that's kind of where I come in, chat with an owner, kind of negotiate a deal, to be honest, and just talk about the potential of how it can actually get to another level.

Right.

What's the highest you've seen per month out of a client or someone you worked with?

The one that was doing around 750K.

Damn, what was he selling?

Yeah, e-commerce.

E-commerce coaching.

Wow.

Was it dropshipping?

Yeah.

Yeah, I feel like that wave was huge.

Is it still

right now?

It's c now, but the thing is, is there are some big players in the actual space, but the reality is, is that there's a difference factor when it comes to people who can actually scale past a certain number.

And again, that really comes to the team, right?

So you can have a large social media presence.

You can, you know, have the best mentorship.

Honestly, that doesn't matter, right?

Because at the end of the day, if you come in and you have a team of A players, like I like saying it, then you know that every league gets contacted, every booked appointment is qualified, and every call that comes in can actually get closed at a high closing percentage.

Because there are other businesses who have that capability,

but the reality is that they don't have a team because that's not their specialty.

Their specialty is the results and marketing.

And they're good at bringing in people.

They just don't know how to close those people.

Nice.

Which funnels have you seen success with?

Say people are watching this, they want to get into coaching or launch a course.

What should they do from there?

Yeah.

My biggest thing is, again, I like using the highest leverage of making sure that on the marketing end, I'm a more of an IG social funnel type of guy.

I know there's other people who run VSO ads right off the bat.

But I like primarily having trust, authority, nurturing with the IG followers, you know, at least at least 100K followers at the minimum.

Maybe it's 50K if it's kind of like in a tight blue ocean kind of market.

Yeah.

But the funnel I like running is making sure that, you know, there's a large following.

We give away some resources, some giveaways, some poll votes.

You have a team of DM setters that contact those leads.

And then if they're not qualified correctly, if they're kind of iffy, if they can't book directly to the closers,

then you take them to the appointment setter who ends up calling all the leads that are kind of the opt-in.

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Basically to put in the gist, the funnel that I like running is people who have a large social media following.

You have setters to contact those people.

They've been nurtured for three to six months, maybe a year because they've been following them.

They built that trust.

Then you have

really good A-player closers to close those leads as well.

Nice.

I always kind of explain this, like, would you rather

push a big boulder up a mountain or would you rather go skiing downmountain?

You know, I prefer skiing downmountain, so I don't like running ads right off the bat because you don't necessarily have the right messaging in place.

You don't know what's actually working out there for the market.

After 100, 200, 300K per month, then you can run IGDM ads, then you can run VSO ads because you pretty much hit the nail on the head of what's working and what's closing as well.

Yeah, this is super exciting for me.

So like I'm doing about $150 a month right now, and I'm not doing any paid ads.

So I feel like incorporating that could really ramp up revenue.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, are you doing mainly like just like, just for the podcast and such?

Like, yeah, people apply to come on, um, cold email, cold DMs, but that's it.

No paid ads.

Yeah, you can go horizontal too.

Like I was actually thinking about this morning, like you can always, you have a large following, right?

You always do shout-outs.

Yeah, right.

I haven't done any of those either.

Yeah, I was was thinking that.

I was like, you always could do shout-outs because you have a large following and people would pay.

I mean, with that e-commerce offer, we're paying for somebody who had a million or two million followers, $2,000 per post.

On which page?

Wealth.

Oh, that's a good page.

Yeah, wealth, million are mentors.

Yeah, all those people.

We're paying 2K.

And that was two or three years ago.

Nice.

So you can definitely, and then you can do that two or three times a day.

You can always go horizontal another way of, I mean, you've built a podcast.

You can teach other people doing a podcast.

That's on my

peripheral, just like course or community yeah and then even if they were to sell a higher tick like if you were to sell like a 5k like mentorship and then the 10k 20k premieres like you also promote them so then their podcast becomes bigger as well so there's a lot of like i actually was thinking this morning like i was like you know when i had my coffee and was doing a little bit of work i was like what what's what's his leverage you know and you already have like you have i mean you have a ton of followers man yeah there's a big opportunity for you to be honest yeah youtube we're growing 20k a day right now yeah it's crazy that's crazy yeah and then youtube is honestly one of the best

ways to kind of nurture people because of its, you know, it's long form content.

You know, so like people, you can just put a little link there.

And then I have a guy that I just did a rev share deal with who has around like, around 250,000 subscribers.

And

we implemented like a link in there just to book a call.

And we already got like, we're getting like 100 leads a day.

Damn.

Yeah.

Just from one video?

Well, no, well, yeah, basically just like we put the link in, you know, the bio for all the, all the videos on the channel.

Yeah.

And we kind of just created an opt-in form, you know, email phone number.

And the past three days, we've had like over 300 leads.

Now we really have to build a team because it's just like, there's a finger leads, basically.

Yeah.

So to handle that many leads, you probably need, what, five closers?

Yeah.

I mean, honestly, a lot of times it's only going to be maybe like 10 to 20% of those leads that are qualified.

So I would, in that scenario, I would probably put in two setters, appointment setters to hit them up, and then probably two closers.

I usually like having

the amount of setters you have or the amount of closers you should have.

And each of them should actually bring in around 100K in rev each.

Interesting.

Yeah, for the closers.

So you can predict, you know, if I'm going to hit 500K a month in rev, I can have five closers, five setters.

If you have a closer, you know, you can have that closer doing 200K in rev.

And, you know,

it's an easy way to predict, you know,

where you want to actually project in the next coming months.

Right.

You kind of bring one in.

And what I like doing, just a little side note is, I like having a team of two by two.

And then I don't like externally hiring somebody for a closer.

I like internally promoting that setter because now they've known the system for three to six months a year and I just add on setters to that system interesting so then you have somebody who comes in to kind of start you know get their feet with and then they end up going to become a closer afterwards because now they already done lots of calls 15 20 minute calls and qualify those people as well right wow so it's like a system almost yeah 100 it's a system um that's the system i like because i found that if you externally promote somebody even if they have the right experience da da da da um

they typically aren't in a position where they kind of know the right messaging right off the bat.

You might have that person who randomly does, but I prefer hungry setters who I tell them in three to six months, maybe a year, you'll become a closer if you lit.

And the easiest way to do that as well is just hand them a couple calls and see if they can, you know, actually close.

And if not, they kind of know the answer, and you can't really deny if they're going to get, you know, promoted to that or not.

Yeah.

You'll work back up to it.

That makes sense.

What's your biggest marketing spend?

Is it Facebook ads?

It depends on the offer.

I would say definitely Facebook ads for an offer for

mainly running IGDM and VSL ads.

But the reality is, is you want 200 or 300K per month, maybe even 400K if it's a large amount of, I mean, you would, you would just honestly, like you could probably hit 500K easily if you have the right systems.

We're going to talk after this.

Yeah, you have a lot of, I mean, bro, you got 11 million followers.

So like typically you can max out maybe three 300 to 400K a month organically.

I like having that organic structure because now you know safely, unless IG f ⁇ you and you do something and like you get taken down or whatever, but you safely have a foundation.

Right, right.

Right.

Of like every single month, I'm getting 200 or 300K per month because I have these nurtured followers.

After that, once you have the right messaging in place, then you can run IG DM ads and you can hit the nail on the head because I have an offer that's less than a dollar.

We're getting, you know, leads and we have around like a 15, 16, you know x row ads because it's just like we know the right exact messaging after doing this for like six months and then you can run vso ads so um

so yeah i guess the the largest marketing spend um ends up becoming igdm ends and vso ads but you primarily want to have that foundation of a of a nice foundation of you know you post a video up you're you're gonna get followers you're gonna get reach dm setters can reach those people and so on and so forth interesting where do the dm ads show up i'm trying to think if i've seen those before.

The DM, you can make it mainly on

the reels.

I like making sure that it just does automatic placement so it can kind of go anywhere.

But typically it will show up in the IG stories, IG reels.

Oh, the stories.

Yeah, yeah, the feed.

It usually just kind of auto-populates and the algorithm kind of feeds where it should be.

But just to give an example,

if

social, if let's say a social media profile, like a fitness offer, e-commerce offer, affiliate, whatever, let's say like there's a blueprint.

And this is an example, a real example right now with a fitness offer I have.

One of the blueprints in organic produces the most leads because we have an athlete that's associated with that blueprint.

We kind of just use her as kind of like the cover of the blueprint.

So therefore, if it works with this smaller audience, then you run the same IGDM ads.

use that same exact system and messaging and framework on IGDM ads.

And then that's where you can really make sure that you have the highest row.

Wow, yeah, so you kind of you can do it based on a resource You can do it based on a CTA, but it really depends what is working organically first because now you know the messaging is correct You know everything's lined up correctly.

Yeah, then now you can put it into colder ads, but it's not too cold because you already have the data of what's working organically.

Yeah, that's why you can hit the nail on the head.

Dude, I love that.

16 to 18x roll is the highest I've ever heard.

So yeah, you're crossing.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, like, it's funny.

Even the owner was like, how's this road?

Like, is this good?

And I I was like, bro, like, people love like two or three.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm like, yeah.

So

I used to have to chill him out.

I'm like, hey, like, we're actually doing.

I mean, I don't think he knows.

You know, so he's just like, is this good?

I was like, bro, like, we're making, you know, 20K off of just spending a little bit of money.

I used to aim for two when I did e-commerce.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, like, two or even three is like good.

I think in the high-ticket space, that's still, that's still decent.

Three to five ends up being good.

But anything above, if you're in that eight to ten, it's like, you know, it's a um you know ad or anything or row yeah you're in a whole nother tier man that's dope um is it scalable though that's the question right because how much are you spending to get those rows yeah right now we're spending a hundred dollars a day um what we need to do actually is build out more dm setters and more setters because you know there's more leads than we actually handle wow that's honestly like that's a good problem yeah that's a good problem right when you have too many leads and you're like trying to figure out the team um so it is scalable

mainly because you're always getting data.

You can always test the data on your organic page and kind of see, okay, does this resource work?

What's you know, and you're tracking that data.

You just take that and put it into IGDM ads.

And the testing, like that's not too hard once you already, a lot of people, when they end up testing, they kind of just test like, well, let's see if this, you know, if I just throw this on the wall, if it works.

You're pretty much testing something that you have a high, you know, percentage of understanding that it's working or not because you're getting the data from your social media page first.

So that's why it can get scalable.

And

when you have something that's working, I mean, we're going to, I just talked to you, you know, we're going to end up spending $500 a day once we build up more setters and DM setters.

Yeah,

killing it.

That's dope.

Now, a lot of people try getting in the space, the info space, coaching, courses.

Why do you think you were able to crush it?

Did you start crushing it off the bat or did it take some time?

I mean, bro, yeah.

I mean, for me,

I can talk sales.

I can talk reps who want to become into the sales space.

I can talk people who also,

you know, want to kind of have their own product.

I think a lot of people honestly just don't have the patience to kind of wait and kind of grow whatever they need to do.

I have even pushed, honestly, my content because I feel like I should, I'm always just working on the back end.

And I know this year is the year where I'm going to actually push it out, but I'm more of a person of, I'm mainly doing the work.

But for seven to eight years, I had my own fitness business.

I was doing sales the whole time.

Then I transitioned that to online because kind of f ⁇ ed me with with that.

I was in San Francisco.

I had to move across the country.

I grew that.

Then I started helping other

fitness businesses on the side.

And so the reason I feel like I understand sales is because I've probably done easily over a thousand sales calls over the past seven to eight years.

And I've managed lots of different teams.

I scaled the business to around 750K per month.

It was part of that journey.

I think

if I'm crushing it, it's mainly because I've put in the work without expecting anything in return first.

And I feel like most people have that switched around.

They think in two or three months or six months, I should make this, you know, but rather they should start thinking, hey, let me just, I kind of like saying this, why don't I just multiply the time that I want to be successful by 10?

And then understand that that's going to be the actual time that it's going to get me even close to success.

Wow.

Right.

So if it's like, I want to be successful in like six months, well, then make it 60 months.

Can people actually wait?

But I think this new generation of, you know, things have to be done so quick and like people kind of preaching all these get rich quick, you know, schemes and all that, whether it's a scheme or not, I think that kind of gets people into the mindset of, you know, oh,

I'm not succeeding.

I'm failing.

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even I even see it a lot of sales reps like they want to become a closer in like two months I'm like bro like you just started you literally just started two months ago you're 19 yeah like you're not like you got how long would you say it takes to be

oh I think now with the education and all the courses out there all the offers out there because now it's becoming like a big thing

I think it could take I would I would I would rather tell somebody wait a year or two before you become a closer you know

stay at a place for at least a year or two not only because because you can get good at setting, you can start with those fundamental skills, but I think also

because

you get to see a business grow as well.

You get to understand the journey of the marketing department getting filled out, the sales department getting filled out, all that stuff.

And so that in itself is a valuable skill that is priceless because if you want to become a sales manager, if you want to run your own offer, you can see something grow from where it's at, which may be little to nothing to

a higher amount.

but you only can do that if you trust the you know the actual like offer and you you have the patience to be there for a year or two right you know I think there's more value in saying I'll just wait here and actually just see what an actual business looks like instead of just saying I want to make you know now 10k a month as a closer is like bro you're learning a lot more money you know something more valuable when you see when you're patient you get to understand what the process looks like yeah learning super important so i actually when i get a good facebook ad i'll sign up just to see their funnel and study their marketing.

So I signed up for Cole Gordon's.

I even hopped on.

Yeah, really good.

I even hopped on calls with their teams just to study how they sell.

He almost got me, bro.

I mean, that is.

He's good.

He's really tight, too.

He has like everything really tight.

Yes.

Yeah.

I had no intention of buying and he almost sold me a $10,000.

Oh, you hopped on a call.

I hopped on a sales call with one of his team and I was just so impressed with the way he was.

He pulled up a Google Doc, had all these points.

He was writing live on the call.

It was impressive, man.

Was it for mentor, like business mentorship?

Or was was it like to become like, was it sales stuff?

It was similar to you.

It was about scaling paid ads.

So I was like, wow,

this is a really good funnel.

I mean, that dude's doing

50 mil a year.

Yeah, yeah, he's doing really good.

He has,

that was the boardroom that I went to.

He calls it boardroom, but I just say mastermind because most people will know what that means.

When I was part of the journey of the e-commerce offer.

And that's what kind of opened my eyes because I was like, I was like, holy shit.

Like every, there's like over 100 businesses here, you know, doing from 100K per month all the way to like 1.2, 1.1.

Yeah.

I grew up watching Elliot Hulse and I was like, holy shit, it's like right here, which is kind of funny.

But yeah, that was a couple years ago.

And

I feel like that I learned a lot because I understood what's really going on the inside, what's actually scaling people.

And it's not just ads, it's also like.

being in like a blue ocean market and it was just really interesting stories that i heard that people who had like the best problems always were were in these spaces that nobody ever heard of.

Like random niches.

Dude, I mean, there's this guy who was, um,

he worked with Muslim men, ran YouTube ads so they can provide for their family

for YouTube ads.

So they, they would run YouTube ads to like create a business.

And their internship was they became part of the program and then ran YouTube ads for them.

Um, and uh

he used to say he had too many leads because like who who the hell is like, you know, speaking to Muslim men trying to make more money provide for their family on youtube you know yeah yeah and he was just like i have too many leads and at that point i was like like holy it's like wow it's a really good problem to have yeah um so sometimes it's good to go a little specific i guess i think it's good to go specific but i think it should be uh authentic yeah because a lot of these like young cats just try to come in they're like i'm gonna go into this like you know do this e-commerce like you know i'm gonna go on pinterest and or Etsy.

And it's like, have you done this yourself?

And they're like, no, I just think it's like a good like way.

So

if you have the experience, obviously, you've done something yourself, then it's good to hone in and be specific.

I like saying authority, either having a large social media following

or being into something that's very specific, like a blue ocean market.

If you layer those three or at least have one of those, you have the ability to scale.

And that's what I like seeing in different businesses.

Yeah.

Kind of like.

understand their numbers, you know, where they're at, so on and so forth.

I love that.

I went through your YouTube.

I pulled a couple interesting questions from there.

So do you believe loyalty can be taught or is it something you're born with?

I believe

both in a way.

I believe somebody can almost have disloyalty and it can get taught through experiences.

But from a perspective of me trying to hire somebody, what I typically see is

if I were to make this like in this type of perspective in my own like life of what I'm looking for, I believe that as a person who tries a who is hiring a team member or a sales rep for an offer,

I always make sure that I look

for the first call if that person is loyal or not throughout questions that challenge their character or if there are different things that just don't add up.

Meaning like if I, you know, I say like, why'd you get off this offer?

And they're like, well, you know, something happened and then maybe I know about the offer.

It didn't line up.

Or

I really just try to have an eye for is this person going to me or not to be honest and I found that I've gotten better at it there's people who still have their selfish intentions you can't control that but

even in the first like couple weeks if things don't really add up or if they're not really like doing their EOD reports or it's just things seem fishy I'd just rather just not have them part of the team because if you have one bad apple that can kind of just spread into the team you want to have a good culture of people who are hungry loyal authentic I've had times where wherever I go even now you know, I have salespeople just always follow me.

I have the, I guess, the, the, I wouldn't say privilege, but I'm fortunate that I have a lot of different sales reps in my past who are really, we've created a strong bond, like a brotherhood, where since they're in all these different agencies,

even if not working with them or not, if I ask them for a sales rep, I just pretty much post a thread and they put post into their Discord telegram of the actual sales agency.

And that's how I get all the best sales reps because I just shoot them a text.

Can you do this for this offer?

And they just post it.

I literally did this morning and I got like 15 messages for a seller that we need.

That's dope.

So I think if I were to show loyalty to them, they show it to me.

It builds that trust.

And I think now it's really paying off because if I go to an offer, the biggest leverage that I have is I can say, I know the top four or five sales agency spaces.

And I can, you know, I can make sure that I can get the best reps out of those people.

Right.

Yeah.

I love what you said about the bad apple.

The toughest fire I had to make was a couple of years ago in my marketing agency.

He was bringing in the most sales by 5x, but he was so negative.

Yeah.

In a group chat, one-on-one texts.

And it was a tough decision, but I had to fire him.

Yeah.

Sometimes you have that.

I had a closer who was, he never wanted to be part of the team meetings.

He always complained, but he was the best sales rep there.

And you kind of know you have to let that person go, right?

But then you kind of rationalize.

I'm talking to myself when I say you go.

So like internally, you're like, ah, you know, the money.

The money, right?

It's like, oh, it's like, but it ends up reoccurring.

And now I've learned that if I get that hint once, I'm already debating closer to letting them go.

If I get it twice, then I'm like, that's a guaranteed reason as to why I should let them go because it's only going to persist.

It's going to spread a little bit.

It's going to create that, you know, that culture that, you know, you don't really want.

And

it's better to have somebody that you can train up.

into that position who has a better character and

yeah it was tough but i think it was the right move honestly yeah i mean it always

long-term, you look back and you can actually start, you know, sensing, like, okay, like that, that, that helps because, I mean, people talk about culture, but I feel like culture is something that

is this kind of this presence.

It's not really something tangible, right?

But you can kind of feel it when you're on meetings and stuff like that.

Yeah.

I've always had it where it spreads.

So I'm just like, I'd rather just not

to be honest.

Cut it immediately.

You also made a video about dealing with clients that have an ego.

What's the approach there?

Yeah.

So I always like saying

BS their BS, right?

They know it's a sales call.

They know they don't want to open up.

They know they're being a hard.

They know they don't want to open up.

Right.

So I always say, well, if they're going to do that, and there's other examples with objection handling, but this is in the discovery.

They're going to not open up.

You're asking the questions.

They're like, what do you mean?

Why not?

Why am I getting asked all these questions?

Bro, you know it's a sales call.

Like you signed up for this, like you got qualified, you put in your form or whatever.

So an easy way to do that is not try to challenge people like, you know, in a way where you're doing ego versus ego, because that's like two bulls just fighting.

You're never going to get anywhere.

Right.

So I always say take the under, kind of act confused, have a Keirstone, just be like, well,

you know, I just don't really know how to help you, to be honest, right?

That type of tonality.

And it's because I don't really know like if there's any problems.

And because of that, I just feel like.

It's probably just not a good fit because I just don't know how to help you.

Right.

So now you're kind of like, you're BSing their BS because they know they're not opening up.

now you kind of put it on them because they know that you know you asked them this question and presented this type of frame and they have two options one they could know well i actually am not opening up and i still want this it's just my ego that's overcoming me to open up right and their response could be

like i'm sorry they might not say i'm sorry but they might say yeah i mean honestly what's going on is that that dot dot and they you know talk about why they're on the call

Or they say, yeah, I just, I actually don't think it's a, I don't think it's a good fit.

And you already know based on that, that you should cut the, you know, the call short because do you want that person as a client, right?

And instead of wasting another 30 minutes to like pitch the program, go over Junction, you're just going to

put yourself in a wall.

But

I don't mind that because that person's probably going to be a future refund or chargeback because they're just, they have a high ego.

They're going to complain, so on and so forth.

Yeah, you don't want those chargebacks because then you'll lose the payment process.

Yeah, exactly.

And I heard in the coaching space, they're pretty high numbers.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, one of the biggest things that I've,

two things that has helped overturn that is you want to have a strong agreement form, right?

So I always make sure that after they pay the invoice, immediately after, go on whatever doc you sign or whatever portal that you use to sign, you know.

But a lot of times they say, well, you're going to get this email and then you're going to get access to the course.

And they have logins to both and or access to, you know, sign the agreement.

And sometimes they never do that.

I like making sure that you answer all the questions on the call.

If there's another call, it doesn't matter.

You're saving yourself a chargeback or a future refund.

Get get them on the call answer those specific questions and make sure that in the actual agreement you know you know that the person agrees to actually you know say they're going to pay and there's not going to be any chargeback literally has to be in like writing like i will not charge back you know based on x y and z so then you can overturn that when you have to go through a case and then two um i want i always want to make sure that let's say for um e-commerce or fitness or affiliate whatever uh that you ask them the right questions for them to be successful do you have two or three hours hours a day to do this?

If they're being a hard, I'd rather not sell that client.

You know, I'd rather just say, just give him the refund now because he's going to be a future chargeback.

So having a contractual agreement to make sure that they sign up on the call, to make sure they sign that after they pay, and also making sure that you know internally that they are actually a good fit always reduces that amount to make sure that you don't have to have chargebacks and you're and you kind of go through different, yeah, that's a whole story in itself.

You know, that's, that ends up, I haven't gone through that, but I know that ends up becoming a big problem.

Yeah, that's smart.

I haven't gone through a chargeback yet with this yeah yeah i mean i i mean bro you provide a lot of

yeah yeah um yeah so i think if you're providing just value in general you you won't have to worry about that as much 100 i mean um you know i always believe that the best programs out there to i mean the real secret to really scale is to have maybe 25 to 50% of your sales coming in on the front end from like social media ads.

But if you have your results down to a T T and you know actually,

you know, if it's a 16 week program, every month you track the data of what gets them successful.

Then you have coaches to monitor that and you have the real data with that.

Then the real secret to scale beyond that is not trying to sell so many units on the front end, but understand that you can sell a higher ticket or continuation offer on the back end.

That same offer we're running, IGDM ads, for the past two months, we had a 0% refund rate.

Wow.

Meaning like, and we have 10 coaches, over a thousand clients that come in over time.

And so we're selling around like 80 units like per month.

We're going to scale that with the team and everything.

But now we've created a 5k mastermind.

And now we're kind of getting to the point where we're not trying to sell this type of offer.

Cause it's a fitness offer, so it's 2K, 3K.

So to really pass, and you can do this in e-commerce affiliate.

If you get the results and you understand what you can track to get the results, then you increase the lifetime value of the LTV by making sure that you can just, I would prefer selling 50% on back end.

And that way you have, you know, you can have 400 or 500K on the front end and another 500K easy on the back end as well.

Yeah.

That's kind of currently where I'm at, kind of taking it from like 300, 500K to kind of like that.

Yeah, no, that's great.

Yeah.

Great to see that perspective.

I had Vic Keller on here yesterday, who's probably almost a billionaire.

He sold his company to Warren Buffett.

He buys a ton of companies and he was saying the same thing.

He cares more about recurring revenue than people that rely on the funnel.

Yeah.

Because the funnel could go away.

100%.

Facebook ads could raise their price.

Something unexpected could happen, which they've done many times.

Yeah.

So he likes people that have that recurring money.

Yeah.

And what I've noticed as well, even on the front end, you can have different tiers, right?

So like I know

in a specific industry, they were doing around like almost seven figures per month, selling something that's two or three K when most of the ticket price is around five to six K, even 10K.

That for me broke my belief saying.

Why don't I just create a smaller offer for two or three K because people actually want to buy that.

So on the front end, you can have different offers that don't always cater to the main program that you want once you already have a foundation built.

So there's another offer within the same industry where they're selling like a $500 to $1,000 course through the DMs directly.

And so on my end, I think you can maximize that by having different, you know, they call it the value lab, different tiers of the prices.

And on the back end, once you already sold a, you know, a customer or client, you can always upsell, cross-sell, downsell.

And the more you become more creative in that way, then you can make sure you can squeeze that out as well.

Absolutely.

So eventually, once there's a foundation, I like squeezing out the front end and I like squeezing out the back end as well.

Yeah, I love that.

Dennis, it's been a pleasure, man.

Where can people find you and where can people work with you?

Yeah,

at IG at Dennis DeHesa.

A lot of people like saying De Giza.

And on YouTube as well.

Yeah, I'm starting to put some more videos.

Honestly, just put,

you know, everything I'm doing every single day there.

Perfect.

We'll link it in the video.

Thanks for coming on, brother.

Yeah, man.

Likewise.

Thanks for watching, guys, as always, and we'll see you next time.