Making Millions off of Sports Cards | Eric Michael DSH #246

So do you think you can make an actual living off sports cards?

Yeah, I have a friend that went to St.

John's University.

He got basically straight A's.

He was going to go into med school.

He was flipping sports cards just like me through college.

And he decided not to go to med school because he was making so much money from sports cards.

So yeah, I mean, I know people that make

a million plus dollars a year in profits.

What?

Just from flipping sports cards.

Wow.

Welcome back to the show, guys.

I'm your host, as always, Sean Kelly.

Got with me a sports card investor and expert, Eric Michael.

How's it going?

It's going well, man.

Thank you for having me.

Appreciate it.

Yeah, absolutely.

You're the first guest, I think, from Ruckers.

Yeah, Ruckers.

Small world, man, all the way back in New Jersey.

Yeah.

Did you make it all the way through?

It's a long story, but I failed out at the end, at the very, very end, because

I got into entrepreneurship and just didn't have the time and failed a bunch of classes.

Then I ended up graduating three years later.

I took one more class three years later to finally graduate.

I did eventually.

Wow.

Not many people in entrepreneurship make it through college.

No, not many.

Like, I got into entrepreneurship at the very, very end.

So, like, I realized I didn't want to work a job.

So, I was like, okay,

you know, let's get into like Shopify, drop shipping, all that stuff.

Yeah.

Failed me out.

But I took the one class I needed to graduate a few years later.

So is that when you got into sports cards or was that later?

No.

So the way I got into sports cards, so it's a it's a funny story.

So my senior year of high school, you know, so people, you know, parents buy their kids cars, people get cars.

And there were two high schools in my town.

I'm from a town called Wayne, New Jersey.

There was the middle class side of town, which is where I'm from, and there was the richer side of town.

It was called Wayne Hills, the other side of town, the high school.

And I heard about someone who bought his own car, CAR, car, not card, car, for $30,000.

And I was like, who?

Our age?

We're 17 could have $30,000.

What is going on?

His name was Dylan.

And I had a friend who was friends with him.

So I was like, yo, can you like hook me up?

I want to see how he's making money.

And this is back in 2015.

And I was like, I got in touch with him.

I was like, dude, like, what's going on?

Like, how do you have 30 grand to buy a car?

And he's like, I buy and sell sports cards, C-A-R-D-S cards.

And I was like, no, you don't.

What?

The things you put in like your bicycle wheels?

He's like, yeah, no, I do.

I was like, no way you could actually make money doing this stuff.

And long story short, I just, I got hooked.

I started harassing him.

I was like, man, like, I'm a huge sports fan.

You got to teach me how to start making money doing this stuff.

He showed me.

He showed me.

And at this time, I was delivering pizza.

And I saved up about $4,000 from delivering pizza.

And I finally bought my first sports card.

It was a, for you sports nerds out there, he was a New York Mets prospect at the time.

His name was Stephen Matz.

He was a pitcher for the New York Mets.

And I bought his card for $500.

I got it graded.

I sold it about 10 days later on eBay for $888.

You know, a lot of money at the time, a few hundred dollars for someone that was 17, but it was a huge just mindset shift from trading your time for money.

And here I am all of a sudden.

Now I just clicked a few buttons on a computer, bought a card, didn't do much with it, got it sold, and I made $388.

And then I was just just absolutely hooked after that.

And Dylan is, you know, he changed my life.

That's awesome.

So, yeah, that's kind of how I got into it.

I don't even know who that pitcher is.

Yeah,

he was a big prospect for the Mets, and then injuries plagued him.

He's still in the league, or he may have retired.

His name's Steven Matts, but back in the day, he was a big, big prospect.

So do you think you can make an actual living off sports cards?

Yeah, I have a friend that

I have a friend that went to St.

John's University and he got basically straight A's.

He was going to go into med school.

He was flipping sports cards just like me through college, and he decided not to go to med school because he was making so much money from sports cards.

So, yeah, I mean, I know people that make a million-plus dollars a year in profit just from flipping sports cards.

Wow.

So, yeah, I mean, it's very, very possible.

So, what's like the strategy you see from the top people making money?

Oh, boy.

Including yourself.

So,

there's two ways to make money.

So, like, I teach people how to buy and sell sports cards, and my whole thing is teaching people how to make a predictable side income, an extra one, two, $3,000 a month.

And the easiest way to do that is doing something called grading.

So grading a sports card is essentially what it is.

You buy a card, you send into a grading company.

If the company deems it's a 10, you can make money.

You could buy a card for $100, spend about $20,000, $30, get it graded.

A few weeks later, you could have it back.

If it's graded to 10, you could triple your money.

It's not that scalable, but you could easily make an extra two to three grand a month doing that.

And that's what I teach because it's realistic.

It's sustainable.

It's predictable.

It's fun.

If you want to start making big, big bucks, you have to start to go into the big, big cards.

So like, I'm not going to spit ball names here, but like,

for example, I have a friend that

about four years ago, before the pandemic, so sports cards got massive during the pandemic, as I'm sure you know.

And he bought before the pandemic, what I think is the most valuable sports card in the world.

So it's a 2003 exquisite.

like logo man like the one of one signed by michael jordan and lebron james he purchased the card for a million dollars like four four or five years ago, something like that.

And now that card's like, I mean, at least 12 to 15 million at least.

So

you have to start to play into those bigger cards.

Like, you know, I saw the other day on Facebook, someone posted like the Brock Purdy 101 National Treasures for like,

I'm assuming the guy probably purchased it for like 100 grand, and he'll probably go to Flip it for like 150, 200 grand.

So like, if you want to make big, big bucks, you know, you have to buy big, big cards.

Wow.

But that's kind of how it goes.

So you buy these bigger cards and you like to buy them raw, right?

pre-graded the big cards you can't um any big card you're gonna buy you're probably not gonna find in great condition if it's raw okay so the way i so there's right you have the whole grading aspect of things and the way i do sports cards mostly is this is the way sports cards go so like

what you can do is you can buy a card of the offseason so let's take right now right right now we're speaking it's in september so like right now what's hot is football, basketball.

Basketball's around the corner.

What are people not buying right now?

People aren't buying baseball.

Baseball is kind of in the crapper.

It'll shoot up a little bit with some guys who do well in the playoffs.

But for the most part, baseball's in the crapper.

There's a lot of really good prospects that are really cheap right now, like just to spit some guys out there like Marcelo Meyer, who's a prospect for the Boston Red Sox.

And if you do it correctly, what you can do is you can buy one of these prospects like Marcelo Meyer for really cheap right now.

and wait a few months to like January, March, and these prospects will see a big, big increase or bump in value if guys think they're going to be called up to the majors um that following spring so like what i'll do a lot of the time is like i'll buy like a five thousand dollar card of marcella meyer right now just because i know it's cheap and i'll sit on it wait till january february hype will start to build in january february march people are going to think he could possibly be the starting shortstop for the red socks and i'll go and flip that card for anywhere between like eight grand ten grand twelve grand wow depends how the market reacts but um that's kind of how to do sports cards on like a bigger bigger playing field just like kind of timing the market buying low selling high, when everyone zigs, you zag type of thing.

Interesting.

So you're buying in the offseason and then you're also buying people you think will get to the next level.

Yes.

Yes.

So like if you're, if you're doing things correctly, like for baseball, like the way sports cards works, it's backed by hype and demand.

Let me give you a great example.

So like, I know I'm probably going to get a lot of hate for this, but so like Justin Fields and Trevor Lawrence, right?

Most guys watching this probably know who they are.

Yeah.

So they most people would say that Trevor Lawrence has accomplished a lot more, right?

He has a much better pass rating.

He's throwing for more touchdowns.

He's actually won a playoff game.

And Justin Fields, he makes a lot of great plays, but he hasn't shown an ability to throw from the pocket.

And just, he hasn't proven that much.

He's talented.

But so that's the point.

But so these guys, Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields, leading up to the NFL season this year were selling for about the same, which doesn't make much sense because Trevor Lawrence has accomplished a lot more.

But people get excited with the hype that Justin Fields provides.

One, because he's in a big market in Chicago, right?

Just there's more Bears fans, so people are going to dump money into Justin Fields.

And two, he's just an exciting player.

So like, I personally don't think Justin Fields will be a successful NFL quarterback.

But that's just my take.

You never know.

But like, if you're doing it right, right, you've got to ask yourself, okay, back in February and March, well, football's down, what player is going to receive a lot of hype and demand?

Okay.

You could realistically say like Justin Fields made a lot of great plays.

He's really cheap because football is cheap in February and March.

He's a big market.

He's in Chicago.

And,

you know, they got a little bit lucky, Justin Fields investors, because I was a Justin Fields investor.

I sold everything before the season just because they signed DJ Moore.

They got some offensive line help.

But

yeah, so you just have to play into the volatility and the hype of the market.

Like, ask yourself, this coming season, like a week or two before the season, who's going to have a lot of excitement?

Whoever that is, that player will increase a lot in value.

And these are a lot of the times significant returns.

I flipped a Justin Fields, it was called a gold XRC.

I paid about, I think I paid about about $5,000 and I sold it about three months later for $9,000.

Wow.

So, like, and the card just sat on my desk, honestly.

So, like, if you do it right, you can make these massive returns.

That's awesome.

What's the most you've seen a sports card sell for?

Just the most I've ever seen a card sell for.

So, it was the record sale.

I think it was the most expensive sports card ever sold.

It was a 1952 top Smickey Mantle.

It sold for about 12 million something.

Jeez.

Yeah.

That's crazy.

And what's crazy about that card, so like a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle, that is like the holy grail of sports cards because that was like it's Mickey Mantle.

1952 was the first year Topps was around.

So like that card is like the holy grail of sports cards.

And what's crazy about that card is the one that sold for 12 million was it was graded in SGC 9.5.

So it's like a specific grading company.

But there's actually two out there that are PSA 10s.

Wow.

One of them, I believe, is owned by a lawyer in New York, and the other is owned by the owner of the Colorado Rockies.

And that card, auctioned, would sell for more than what that last Mickey Mantle did, probably hovering around 20 million, maybe 18 to 20 million.

I had a guess.

That's crazy.

So yeah,

that's the biggest sports card I've ever seen sold.

I didn't see it, but I heard about it.

What about you personally?

What's the most expensive card you've sold or own?

The most expensive card I've ever sold was, this is actually a...

interesting little flip.

So last two years ago at the national card show in Atlantic City, I got a text message from a friend saying that this guy was looking to sell this card of Justin Herbert.

Justin Herber was extremely hot at the time.

This was like late July of 2022.

And I met up with this guy in the hotel lobby of the Tropicana in Atlantic City.

We did like a cash and trade deal.

And long story short, I

gave him about $75,000 for the card through.

through a few cards about half of it was cash i took that same card and i flipped it the next day at the card show for 110 $110,000 in cash.

Damn.

So, yeah, that's the biggest card.

All cash?

All cash, yep.

So, people are pulling up to these card shows with just briefcases of cash.

Big time.

Yeah.

That's scary, man.

Yeah, I didn't fly home with that.

Well, I went to the bank in Atlantic City.

I found a Chase Bank in the area and I deposited the cash.

Well, I took about half of the cash and spent it at the card show.

The other half, I just went to the bank and deposited it.

Have you ever met Gary Vee at these card shows?

I have.

It was funny.

Back in 2020, the the National Card Show in Chicago, I was thinking about starting the coaching program, the same one that I do today.

And I was debating whether or not to do it.

And Gary Vee was at this card show.

And, you know, he was getting bombarded by all these people.

And I went up to him and I was like, hey, man, I think I'm going to start a program to teach people how to do this.

And he looked at me dead in the eye and he's like, kid, that's a great idea.

Wow.

And I was like, okay, he must think it's a good idea.

If he actually gave me the attention to look at me in the eye.

That's kind of one of my sparks for starting to teach people how to make money doing this stuff.

Nice.

So how much would you say the average person would need to get started if they want to make one to $3K a month, like you said earlier?

One to $3K.

That's all they need?

Yeah.

Like

you could start with $500, flip a card, sell for $800, get it graded, sell for $800, take that $800, roll it over.

I mean, I started with $4,000.

That's what I saved up from delivering pizza back in the day.

The more money you have, the more money you're going to make.

But I mean, you could start with a few hundred dollars.

That's all you need to buy a card and get it graded.

That's crazy.

And you're doing this full-time?

Like, this is your main income?

Yep.

That and the teaching people how to do it.

Nice.

How many people are you teaching?

We've taught about

up to this point, probably around 600.

Jeez.

Yeah.

That's a lot.

Yeah, it's

words gotten around that

we actually do a decent job of helping people.

Part of the problem with the coaching space is a lot of people don't practice.

They preach and they give these big promises and don't deliver on them.

But we go out there and tell people, hey, this is a realistic side income.

You're going to make an extra few grand a month.

Is this something you want to do?

People want to do it, um, right?

They just want that extra few grand a month on top of their nine to five jobs, and you know, they love it.

It doesn't require any fancy technology, no websites, no funnels, no ads.

Yeah, all you need is your phone and an internet connection, really.

Nice.

What cards do you see potential in?

Like, I know there's Star Wars cards, there's Pokemon, there's all these types of cards.

Like, do you stick with just sports?

I stick with just sports because it's the easiest to make money with.

Okay.

So, like,

okay, so like Pokemon, for example.

So, like, Pokemon, the most sought-after cards are the original set from 1999.

That's when Pokemon first started.

And that's it.

Like that's the original set.

It ends right there.

That is the original Pokemon cards.

But with sports cards, there are original cards being printed every single year because it's rookies, right?

Like who was a rookie this year?

Like Kenny Pickett cards where his good cards came out in early 2023 and like

you know, those are his original cards.

And the next year, there's going to be original cards.

And the next year, there's original cards being printed every single year.

So like, there's just a lot of a lot more money in it and a lot more opportunity.

It's easier, honestly, to make money.

And I like sports too.

I don't like Pokemon as much.

Yeah.

Do you stick with mainly rookie cards?

Because I know some people buy second year, some people buy certain variants.

Yeah, it's mostly rookie, almost all rookie.

Yeah, like 95% of it, I would say.

It's just they, like, if you're going to buy a card, get it graded, and sell it, like, those cards can have the biggest margins, the most liquidity.

It's 95%.

Yes.

Does it still take months to get the grades back?

Because when I used to send stuff to PSA, it took like six months.

Yeah, PSA is wonky.

It depends.

The way it works is the more you spend, like, the more money it costs to get a card graded, the faster you're going to get it back.

So I'd say for me personally, the average card I buy is probably $3,000.

So I'm okay with spending more money to get it graded.

So I'll spend $150 to get it graded.

Wow.

Probably takes about two weeks, three weeks to get back.

But if you're buying a lower-end card that might be $100,

it doesn't make much sense to spend $75 to get it graded.

So, or $150 to get it graded.

So, you're going to probably spend the lowest service, which right now is about $19.

Yeah.

It'll take five to six weeks.

It depends.

It could be eight weeks.

It could be four weeks.

Okay.

So, it's gotten a little better.

It's from the pandemic, it's gotten way better.

That's when I submitted mine.

It took at least six months.

Yeah, like it was crazy because, I mean, during the pandemic, like sports cars just took off like no one would imagine.

Yeah, blasting.

They were just hammered.

You couldn't lose.

Yeah, you literally couldn't lose.

It was crazy.

Like, just everything, it seemed like everything you touched turned to gold.

It felt like a crypto bull run.

Yeah, yeah, it did.

It It's it.

And it's funny because that's one of the most common questions I get.

Like people like comment on my Facebook ads and stuff, like, oh, the sports card market has crashed.

And it's definitely down since the pandemic.

But like, so before the pandemic, just to kind of give like an example, like a LeBron James Topps Chrome PSA 10 rookie card was about $2,000 during the, before the pandemic.

Yeah.

At the height of the pandemic, that same card was about $30,000.

So it really went up a lot.

But it's come down since the pandemic.

But that same card is about seven, eight grand.

The sports card market has about three to four times from before to after the pandemic so um

but yeah so yeah it's all relative right everything crashed from the pandemic real estate yeah all the alternative assets right what goes up must come down it has to right it was too good to be true yeah exactly i mean i was literally buying any card on ebay and it would go up the next week yeah that's oh my god yeah those are the days it was a wild time like i had i had all these cards that like Like the pandemic started in like, what was it, like March of 2020?

So like, I had all these cards I was sitting on, all these baseball baseball cards.

I bought like in you know, November and December, and I was gonna wait till before the season in March to sell them.

And, like, you know, I'd probably make on average about a 50% return holding cards for an extended, like, a few months, but like, all of a sudden, the pandemic started, and just boom, these cards, like three to four times, and I just cashed out huge.

Um, but yeah, everything was just going up nuts.

Have you ever bought a fake card or been scammed or anything?

Oh, yeah, uh, oh, yes, yes.

Um, the unfortunate thing about sports cards is it is an easy place to scam people.

So, like, um,

yeah, like I bought a fake card before, but like, when you buy a fake card and you buy it on eBay, you're protected.

So, like, I bought a card, I've got my money back.

How'd you know it was fake?

Um,

so I bought a card of Michael Jordan.

Um, it was like a 1986 FLIR, Michael Jordan.

Yeah, and what somebody did is, I wish I had like an example, but I don't, is they so they took the real card of Michael Jordan.

It was great at like an eight or something.

The card was probably worth like five grand.

Yeah, and they like made a little slit in in the case and they took the real one out and put a fake one in that looked good.

So now it's in the case and it looks real.

Like it looks like a real card.

And they took the real one and they submitted it to PSA again.

So now they have another PSA.

So they just, do you see that?

So they just doubled their money.

That's crazy.

So I had the fake one and I looked at the card and I was like, this don't look right.

This looks a little bit off.

I asked a friend.

He confirmed it was fake.

eBay gave me my money back.

But

yeah, there's a lot of, a lot of, just like any business, right?

Like there's a lot of you know rug pull scams but if you know how to navigate your way through it you could make a lot of money i i probably got a scam too i was buying so many cards uh i wasn't even checking if i got them all you know what i mean i was just buying so many yeah that will that will happen yeah and i i took a big l i bought a lot of zion yep uh so did i that was yeah that was uh zion i made money sold it he went down i bought more zion And then it went down.

And then I lost.

If he ever plays again, it might go up.

Yeah, yeah.

I have a bunch of Zion with me.

I bought a bunch back in like, not with me, but back in Arizona.

I bought a bunch in like February and March,

you know, hoping he would look healthy and his value would go back up.

It's went up a little bit, but not as much as I expected.

But we'll see.

Why didn't you get into breaking at all?

Because people are with that, right?

Car fixed.

I mean, breaking is

a great thing, but and it gets a lot of people into the hobby.

But, I mean, there's a few reasons.

I was doing well flipping the sports cards, and I like to control my own money.

So when you break, right, you're getting product from like Panini and Topps, and you're kind of at the mercy of them,

how many boxes and cases they'll give you.

So, I was never that into it, and I started the coaching program.

And the reality of breaking is, you know, I don't have anyone against any breakers, but when you break a box of cards, it's kind of like, you know, we're in a casino right now, like going to a slot machine and pulling the slot machine.

Like, you can get lucky once, sure, maybe.

But over the long run, you're going to lose a lot of money.

I've never made money opening cards.

Never, right?

Because, like, it's, there's a reason these companies like Panini and Topps make a lot lot of money, right?

Unfortunately, it's at the expense of the consumer.

So I said to myself, if I'm going to brand myself and really go all out on a business, I'd rather help people make money than, you know, maybe help people have fun, but losing money.

So that's kind of my motivation for getting into coaching and teaching people how to actually make a sustainable siding.

Yeah, that's respectable, man.

I've seen people spend six,

maybe even seven figures on just buying cases and boxes of cards, trying to chase that one of one.

And they just get wrecked.

It's a losing game, dude.

And the worst part about it is like, I mean, a lot of people that come into my program, they come from the world of breaking.

They'll come to me and say, hey, man, like, I'm down like $30,000.

Like, can you help me make money?

And then they end up coming into the program and learning how to actually make money.

But,

but, yeah, so, like, yeah, breaking, it's just, right, it's a slot machine.

You're going to lose money in the long run unless you're the luckiest person in the world.

So that's just how it goes.

Yeah, same with owning a sports card shop because the value of these cards, they're just changing so quickly.

You could be stuck with so much inventory, right?

Yeah.

I mean, that's why sports card shops do a lot of breaking because it's like a sustainable thing like you know there's no like like they take these boxes and like for example they'll get a box from panini for like a thousand dollars and they'll break it online through the you know through 10 to 15 different people paying them and they'll end up doubling their money with the box right which part of which is another reason why breaking is such a not profitable thing because

you're really paying strong to get into these boxes and like even if you just bought the box what it's worth the whole thing you would lose money yeah now you're essentially even though you're only getting a smaller bit of it, you're paying like essentially double.

So like, it's a losing game.

I mean, it's fun.

Like, it drives the hobby.

Don't get me wrong.

I have nothing against it.

Like, the cards I buy and make money on come out of these boxes.

So, like, but in the long run, you'll get crushed.

Yeah.

I noticed like the older heads kind of hate it too.

Yep, they do.

There's like that divide with like the new social media kids.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I see a lot of that too.

When,

you know,

there's a lot of like original collectors that don't like all like the promoting and all the social media and all the stuff that's coming around sports cards because like they just want like you know they're just old yeah rubby people i know this one dude i think his username is shine150 or something i've heard of him i think he buys a lot of big cards dude yeah he makes a lot of money off sports cards but he buys like he's like you but like on another level because like he'll buy like the one of ones yeah yeah that's it

yeah that's a uh that's a crazy game to play i like to play in the I like to play in the ballpark of like buying cards that are five to ten grand.

I've played in the ballpark of buying cards that that are like 25, 50, 100 grand, but like they're just too hard to move.

Too risky, right?

Yeah, not even too risky.

They're not as liquid.

Right.

Like

selling a card for 10 grand is a lot of money, but a lot of people have 10 grand.

Yeah.

100 grand, different ballgame.

Right.

Like, it's very hard to move.

A lot of the times when you're ready to sell a card, you can't sell it.

But like a $10,000 card, I have a bunch of them.

I can go on Facebook, make a post, and I'll be flooded with offers.

Oh, yeah?

Yeah, for cards that are worth $5,000, $10,000, $15,000.

But $100,000, $50,000 is a whole different ballgame.

So where do you sell yours mainly on Facebook?

Yeah, the main places I buy are Facebook.

So when I'm buying cards to get graded, they mostly come from eBay.

Yeah.

When I'm buying cards to hold, like these higher end cards that are already graded, mostly from Facebook or card shows when I get to go once in a while.

And then when I sell, selling is 95% through Facebook.

That's just where I've done the best.

Peel out.

I know a lot of people on Facebook.

I have a lot of connections at this point.

Sometimes I'll just hit people up on my phone.

But, you know, if you have a, there's no right or wrong.

Like Instagram is great too.

I prefer social media just because there's no fees.

You could build connections.

Yeah.

Um, so'cause eBay takes what, like three percent or something?

Uh, thirteen.

Thirteen?

Thirteen percent, yeah.

Bro.

Yeah.

They're printing money though.

No wonder they like sports cards.

They're the real winners, dude.

They're the real winners.

They make a crap ton of money.

Yeah, because I was wondering why they started going, like, they started marketing sports cards a lot.

I don't know if you noticed that.

But they would, like, sponsor conferences.

I mean, dude, it's smart.

Like, they see where it's going.

And, like, Fanatics, I'm sure you've heard of it, how they're taking over in 2026.

Like, I mean, they're smart.

They make a crap ton of money from sports cards, eBay.

So that's why they're promoting it so hard.

Yeah.

Are you excited about the Fanatics takeover or worried?

No, I'm excited.

Like, I mean, I don't know what's in store, obviously, but

the owner, Michael Rubin, I mean, I know he

knows a lot about sports cards.

He knows a lot about business.

So whatever decisions he makes is going to be best for the hobby and to make money.

So I don't know what he's going to do.

He hasn't probably released any of it.

He may not have even thought of it himself yet.

But whatever he does, I mean, I trust him.

The dude's a a multi-billionaire for everyone.

I feel that.

And the dude, the thing I like about Ruben is, even though he's super rich and stuff, successful, he's still in the culture.

Yeah.

Like, he still hangs out with exactly, exactly.

And so, kind of a, I guess, a similar situation to that.

So, you know who Nat Turner is?

Yeah.

So, he bought PSA.

I forget when he bought them.

It was like a few years ago.

During the pandemic, right?

Yeah.

But he's a guy.

who's been in the hobby, knows the ins and outs, has bought a lot of sports cards.

And part of the reason PSA blew up is because he's the owner.

For sure.

The decisions he's made has the collector in mind, right?

He's come from the hobby.

As to like something like Beckett, I forget who the owner is, but he's not really involved in the hobby.

He looks at it more like just like a business, like an X's and O's, just numbers type of thing.

So, like, Beckett's kind of taken a step back, and PSA is taken 10 steps forward

because Nat Turner understands what drives the hobby, getting cards back quicker, really valuing the PSA 10.

He's made it like a little bit harder to get that PSA 10 over the years.

So,

yeah, I mean, that's kind of like a similar situation.

Like someone who has a lot of money, who's been in the hobby for a long time, is now taking a big, like, I guess, part in the hobby.

Yeah.

Is it true they're trying to switch to like AI

ratings?

Like, they're going to have a computer look at the cards now instead of human?

You know what?

That's a common question I get, but I don't think it'll ever happen because human error is a big part of grading.

So if you had something like some sort of AI robot, that was grading these cards, people would figure out or have some sort of software or something where they'd be able to look at a card on eBay and just know what it's going to get graded before it even gets graded, which diminishes the whole value of cards.

That would screw up the whole hobby.

Human error is what makes grading great.

Sometimes you can send in a card that you're sure is going to get a 10, grades a nine.

Sometimes you send in a card.

That's the worst feeling.

Yeah, and vice versa, right?

You'll send in a card that like, ah, it has this blemish and it gets a 10.

Right, right.

Right.

So.

If they ever did that, people are smart enough to come out with softwares that kind of mimic whatever AI they're using.

And then you would know if the card's going to grade a 10 or a 9 before buying it.

And then it's great.

That's true.

Grading goes out the window.

Yeah, you could just upload an image and it would give you a grade.

Exactly.

So I don't think they'll ever do it.

That's a good point.

In terms of like, just in general, what are you feeling about moving forward?

Like, do you want to go more on the coaching side or more on the investing side?

Coaching.

I like helping people.

But as the coaching, like, kind of the way, there's a funny story.

So kind of the way like sports cards went for me is like, I was flipping cards for for like a few hundred dollars, just really pumping them out.

As my coaching program has gotten bigger, the cards I bought has got bigger.

So, like, I'll still spend 50 grand in a month on cards, but now it's just I'm only buying eight cards instead of 80, right?

As before, so like the money I'm investing in sports cards is just getting bigger and bigger.

I'm just buying less cards, but cards that are bigger.

Um,

and kind of what helped me out a lot, so this is a this will be a shock to a lot of your audience.

So, what's helped me out a lot in sports cards.

So, like, as I, you know, I was someone back in 2020 when me and my buddy John Suarez started the coaching program, you know, I just thought I was teaching people how to make money with sports cards.

And as soon as you start a business running ads and funnels and websites and hiring people, you realize, oh my God, teaching people how to make money with sports cards is easy.

Like I have to post content, market, make database decisions, hire a sales team, CRM, all this crazy stuff.

So I really became like a system.

process driven person and I had a bunch of VAs.

What a VA is a virtual assistant for you guys out there who don't know.

They're essentially overseas workers.

You could pay them three, four, five dollars an hour, which is great.

It's above minimum wage in their country, and they'll work for you and kind of do whatever you want.

And I had a bunch of VAs on my team, I still do, you know, posting content and doing all this random stuff.

And as my coaching program got bigger and bigger and bigger, I was like, damn, I don't have as much time to buy sports cards.

So then I had the great idea one day of, boy, maybe one of these virtual assistants could find these cards for me.

Yeah.

So I took one of the virtual assistants.

I got on a two-hour Zoom with him.

I I trained him.

I had him watch my program.

And I was like, here's a spreadsheet.

You're going to, you're going to work for three hours a day.

You're going to find cards for me to get graded.

And then we'll, uh, you know, we'll see what happens.

And this guy was, okay, it was amazing.

Like I was just waking up every morning or going on this spreadsheet at the end of the day.

And instead of me putting in a few hours to find cards, this VA did it all for me.

And I'd pay him like, you know, 15, 20 bucks a day.

And I was just buying tons of cards.

And I still do it to this day.

So that's something we do in our coaching program.

We give people, we have like a recruiting agency over in the Philippines that trains these VAs how to find sports cards and our processes and what to look for in a card and all that stuff.

So, a lot of our students actually don't put a lot of time into finding these cards because that's one of the most timely things in sports cards.

So, we have virtual assistants that do it.

That's smart.

Find the cards for us, and it's an amazing process.

Yeah, it saves a ton of time.

Super smart, Eric.

It's been fun, man.

Anything you want to close off with or promote?

Not really, man.

I mean, just like if you guys have have any questions about sports cards, you can hit me up on Instagram at Eric Michael MLP.

I'm more than happy to answer any questions you guys have about sports cards.

But yeah, that's really it.

I just wanted to come on here and provide you guys as much value as possible with the sports card market.

Awesome.

Thanks for coming on, man.

I think it's cool to see new investment vehicles.

Yeah, for sure, man.

I appreciate it.

Absolutely.

Thanks for watching, guys, and I'll see you next time.