Being a Pro Ballet Dancer, Going on Survivor and the Revival of Smosh | Mari Takahashi DSH #293

It took a lot of years for me to kind of prove that this was a viable career.

And back in 2010,

not a viable career.

Definitely not.

It was something that I would sort of say like, oh, I do ballet and I make videos on stuff.

Like, it was embarrassing.

Now it's cool.

Now it is.

Yeah.

You know, you ask any kid out there, what do you want to be?

And they say a YouTube.

Welcome back to the show, guys.

I'm your host, as always, Sean Kelly.

Got with me a lovely guest for you guys today.

Mari Takahashi, how's it going?

Good.

I'm glad to be here.

Yeah.

I've never had someone from your space, so I'm excited to dive into it more.

Ah, sweet.

Yeah.

From

the weird world of ballet, turned gaming, turned whatever the heck it is that I do these days.

Yeah, can't say I've met someone with that background.

It's a weird eclectic background, that's for sure.

I definitely want to start off with the ballet stuff.

Cool.

Because you were like, you were almost a professional, right?

I was a professional for 10 years.

Yeah.

What was that life like?

Because that sounds intense.

So I started when I was two.

I'm like a

second generation ballerina, meaning my mom was a ballet teacher, a ballerina.

And so it was kind of like destiny the way that I was brought into it.

It's just like, this is your life path.

And this is what you will do.

So

in a lot of ways, like, it was contentious because I felt like

I didn't necessarily choose this thing.

And so when I started getting getting a little bit older, I'm like, oh, I want to like play soccer and do karate.

And I basically just want to kick things.

But ballet was kind of like the path.

And so I stayed on that path

for 28 years.

I mean, I put my whole life into it.

It was.

the thing that I thought I would do until the day my knees broke and then I would teach ballet until I died.

Like that was my life path.

And so coming from that, I think that

in a lot of ways, I was coasting.

I just thought that that's what life was going to be for me.

It was already kind of set out for me.

But YouTube is the thing that really changed everything.

It was the first time that I found sort of independence in what I was doing.

And so it was a huge difference.

Nice.

Yeah.

But at the same time, I think that coming from ballet, nothing is as difficult as that experience.

So I feel like the digital experience, the online experience for me has been just cruising.

Yeah.

Wait, so how good was the money in ballet?

Oh, starving artist.

Absolutely.

But I knew no other way.

It was just kind of the culture.

And it's like you know that you pour everything into your heart, into your art.

And so

it was, I mean, I was doing well for

standards.

I had a full-time job.

I was doing ballet eight hours a day, five days a week, and performing on weekends and teaching on the side and choreographing on the side.

And so it's like I had three, four jobs and that was normal.

And that's just kind of status quo.

Yeah.

That's a lot of jobs out at once.

Yeah.

I mean, it's all in the same realm, but I don't know.

There's enough hustle mentality people out there that's like, yeah, that's, that's par.

But

yeah, I don't think that I just saw any other direction other than that.

So it just felt like the natural way to go.

Yeah.

And everything that you think of when you think of ballet, when it's like discipline and,

you know, just working hard at the one thing.

I think those are things that were instilled in me at such a young age that when I moved into digital media, I couldn't let go of it.

It's just an ingrained part of me.

So

extremely helpful.

Wow.

So how did that transition happen?

Because that's such a different space.

Like what exactly happened there?

The definition of falling backwards into something, honestly.

It was during the summer, my

contract for ballet would run out during the summer.

So all of us would scramble and take any job possible.

I was doing birthday parties as a ballerina.

I was a magician's assistant.

I would just show up and do whatever gig was out there.

I was scrounging Craigslist and all this.

And so I was on something called sfcasting.com, which is basically a Craigslist for entertainers.

And on that, there was a listing for

needing a Japanese-speaking person for a sketch comedy show for YouTube.

And I said, sure, why not?

It pays 50 bucks.

Dope.

That's not specific.

Very specific.

But hey, I'm like, oh, I fit the bill.

It is just for this one-time thing.

It pays $50.

It's in Sacramento.

And I was stoked for $50.

I'm like, that'll pay for gas and lunch.

Dope.

Nice.

And so I went to this thing and met Ian and Anthony of a YouTube channel called Smosh.

Back in 2010,

they were like, first or second most subscribed on the channel.

They had 10 million subscribers in 2010.

Crazy.

And, you know, these days, 10 million subscribers, sure, kind of middle range, maybe.

Back then, it was

bonker to have that many people.

I go into this gig and I don't know who they are.

So I'm extremely aloof to the whole situation.

I'm like, I'm here for the gig.

I'm here for the job.

And

whether it was my sort of candidness or my work ethic that day, whatever it was, we got along on set and they're like, hey, you want to come back to be a recurring role for us?

And

honestly, I almost didn't show up the next day because I'm like, it's another drive, but this time I'm not getting paid.

It's just kind of like an audition for this thing.

Do I go?

But I had nothing in the books, so I go.

And

that...

that became a full-time job.

Wow.

Legendary.

They probably liked you because you didn't know them, honestly.

Maybe.

I mean, I don't know.

I think that, you know, over the years we've talked about it.

And in some ways, they say things like, you know, you can teach somebody to edit, but you can't teach charisma.

And I've really taken that to heart.

The moments where I have some

imposter syndrome, I remember that.

Yeah.

And so, yeah,

I always

say, you know, like my motto has been, show up and don't be a s ⁇ .

It's like, show up to the thing.

Don't expect anything out of it.

Be nice.

And who knows?

Show up and don't be a s like that.

It's taken me quite far in my career.

And I'm like, I keep going back to that sort of mentality of like, you just never know what sort of friendships and relationships and work relationships you will find from just showing up.

And I mean, like, fully showing up, like showing up for yourself and showing up

with the intention that you are going to, you know, give your full ability on that day.

Right.

So, yeah.

I like that.

So, when you were making that transition, what were those talks like with your parents?

The transition took so long.

I, I, I, you know, when I first put up my, the first video, I think that video hit something like maybe, maybe close to a million within a week.

Nice.

And

I had about 60%

dislikes.

And that was like 20,000 dislikes.

I should have done the research to see how many dislikes, but it was like 20,000 dislikes.

And that was the first video I put up online.

And I think if I didn't have a career in ballet, I would have stopped.

And if I didn't have Ian Anthony telling me, like, no, just keep doing it.

You'll get better.

It'll be fine.

I think I would have stopped.

But knowing that this wasn't my full-time career, this was a minuscule sort of gig, but ballet was the grandiose sort of thing that I had worked my whole life for.

It put into perspective what was important at that moment.

And it wasn't these faceless dislikes.

It wasn't this faceless sort of like giant numbers that I couldn't understand.

So I think that made it easy for me mentally.

But I didn't stop ballet for a full five years

until I moved to LA.

And so it was a five-year transition of still working full-time as a ballerina, still making videos, adding more videos to make.

And in some ways, I think it was my way of not having to have to admit to my parents that I'm letting go of a career that my entire life has been dumped into.

I have

old school parents who come from a generation of like, you do one thing your whole life, you get real good at it, and you do it until you retire.

Right.

And it's not that far off generation-wise where that was the mentality.

Yeah.

These days, it's like, you know, you and I get tired of what we do in a month.

We're like, okay, we're going to find something else that we really, really enjoy.

And we know we're going to crush it because we love the thing.

But that just was not the generation that my parents grew up in.

And a lot of our parents didn't grow up in.

So I think that it took a lot of years for me to kind of prove that this was a viable career.

And back in 2010,

not a viable career.

Definitely not.

It was something that I would

sort of say, like, oh, I do ballet and I make videos on the side.

Like, it was embarrassing to a certain degree back then.

Now it's cool.

Now it is.

Yeah.

Now it's, you know, you ask any kid out there, what do you want to be?

And they say a YouTuber.

Which I'm like,

go be a firefighter, please.

Go, go, aspire to be an astronaut.

It's an interesting switch that has happened.

But I think for my parents, it is still

this wrestling for me of like,

at least from my mom, seeking that approval that was as high as when I was challenging myself and succeeding in ballet.

Like nothing that I do in the digital space will ever sort of compare for her.

Wow.

You know, selling out a 3,000-seater seater at the Paramount Theater in Oakland Ballet

and having 3,000 people in the audience is way more sort of extravagant in my mom's eyes than 10 million views on a video.

Wow.

You know, and so it grounds me to a certain degree.

And it also makes me realize that I can't chase her approval.

Right.

Because I've set different bars for myself now.

Yeah, I can relate to that.

It took a few years for my mom to finally give me her 100% support.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Because for her, education was super important.

So when I dropped out of college, there was some disconnect at first.

For sure.

And I think our parents come from a place of love, right?

Like, they want to make sure that we're going to be able to feed ourselves.

And their way of showing their parental guidance is like, no, you do the thing that's always been a tried and true process.

You go to school, you get a good job, and then you get paid, and then you can, you know, support yourself and your family and whatever it is and

it's it's a rough time because it's like well

it can work out that way and sometimes it doesn't but to prove it to your parents is another is another thing and I think you should be so proud of the fact that you have overcome you know that that obstacle yeah some people like you said their parents still never like I was talking to Maria Ho the poker player and her parents still don't even talk to her about poker.

So it's just insane to see that sometimes it never repairs.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, it's like, what, what is the thing that will be the proving ground is interesting.

I remember the, the, the time that I got into the Japanese newspaper,

and this was only two years ago.

I've been doing this for 13 years.

I got into the Japanese newspaper about

what I do.

And my parents are like, oh,

now we see.

And I'm like, did you just need me to translate the thing that I do into Japanese?

And then I would get the approval?

It was a very interesting moment.

I'm like, oh, man, I could have just made this so much easier for myself all these years.

Yeah, who would have thought a newspaper would be that it factor for them?

I know, but that's the thing, right?

Like,

I was on a

Twitch billboard in New York, Times Square, got paid pennies for it.

And they were like, oh my gosh, you've made it.

And I'm like, no, the everyday thing

where people are watching the videos.

and you know like the thing that does get me paid the working with these jumbo companies and like having sort of the stamp of approval from that like I'm like that's the proven ground not a newspaper and a billboard like the things that are like zero dollars to them are the thing that is like wow, you've made it.

So it's a shift in mentality.

But I but I also have a lot of empathy for that understanding too.

I mean, things moved so quickly, things have changed so fast in the world.

I mean, look at what we're doing right now.

We're podcasting, and this is like, this is a viable career.

Yeah,

who would have thought?

I didn't even know it existed five years ago.

It's crazy, but

there's one thing I got to ask you because I'm a huge fan of Survivor.

Oh, yeah.

I need to know what it was like going on that show.

You know, I maintain that Survivor is such a pure reality TV show, and I love that.

I love the fact that Jeff Probes comes from a a place of real curiosity.

Like he's just interested in how humans behave and how humans behave under pressure in a competition when everything

from your own life is kind of stripped away from you and you are just yourself raw on an island with people you don't know.

It's fascinating.

I will say the camera people on that show, warriors, man.

That was the coolest thing.

So this was me being stupid and coming from like a production background.

So like I see things from a production perspective.

And when I see these dudes with like

80-pound cameras on their shoulders running in the sand after somebody who, you know, might have a moment.

I saw this guy running backwards with a camera, tumble backwards, somersault backwards, get up.

and continue running and I'm like, oh man, that is so cool.

And so I started poking around and asking, I'm like, what do these guys do when they're not doing survivor?

They're like in war zones doing documentaries.

They're in nature, like going after lions.

Like these folks are so, so pro.

I was really, really interested about that.

But the show itself, it changed me.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Also.

I think it grounded me in a way that I was not ready for in the moment.

I

was kind of like in, I think this was like 2015, 2016, kind of like a high in my career.

My whole life became my career, you know, it became like my personality.

I was just so ingrained in kind of the YouTube life.

And I go on this island and

kind of when I'm,

when the pillars of my, my partner in life, my friends, my work life,

you know, kind of who I am on the day to day is taken away from me.

I'm like, who am I?

And I realized very quickly on the island, I'm like, oh, I'm like a scared introverted 15-year-old.

And that was a hard, hard thing to deal with.

Cause I'm like, oh, man.

You know, when you're in a social situation and you feel like you're getting like ghosted by like 60% of the crowd,

and you like say something and it's like silent.

And I think today I'd be able to kind of like mentally check myself and being like, this is not necessarily a reflection of myself, but maybe the fact that we're all in a competition.

But in the moment, it started to kind of like really chip at me.

Wow.

And

I realized that in so many ways, I was putting myself first.

And instead of being interested, I was trying to be interesting.

And in a social game like that, it doesn't really work too much.

Right.

And so

that was a big sort of come-to as I came back home.

And I was like, oh, I need to really kind of shift my

idea and go back to not being an

interesting.

So you'd say the social game is more important than physical on Survivor?

It's a give or take.

I think if you're physically fit, then you can kind of keep yourself a little bit more

safe in the beginning of the game.

But

my case was different.

People saw me as a threat.

Oh, did they?

Yeah.

Oh, because of the ballet?

Yeah, and it's an interesting way that it happened.

Our tribe was the millennial tribe.

And we had a 17-year-old, first time ever, youngest survivor player.

And I went in there saying that I do like producing for online media.

I didn't want to say I'm a YouTuber, that I'm, you know, like this person

that is known or anything like that.

And so I just said producer.

And then this 17-year-old is like, I know who you are.

You're Mari and you're from Smosh, you do ballet and you're a gamer.

And all of those things combined, it was, oh, I wasn't sincere about what I said that I do for a job.

I'm an athlete.

I play video games, so I must be strategic.

And so all of those things combined became Mari is a threat.

We need to get her out quick.

And that's what happened.

Sorry, spoilers.

That's crazy.

Did you have to bulk up weight before you joined?

Because I know people lose a lot on the show.

Bro, that was the saddest part.

I bulked up so, I think I bulked up 15 pounds, which is a lot for my frame.

Yeah.

And then I was booted off survivor.

After you get, can I say this?

I think I can.

After you get booted off survivor, for the rest of the weeks that you would be on the island, you are put somewhere else.

Basically, so that you don't call home, keep your mouth shut.

are happy about the situation.

So you are on CBS's dime for the next month.

Wow.

So you don't have your phone or anything?

Nothing.

Dang.

Yeah.

And you basically have a chaperone with you at all times that they make sure you can't go to like a LAN cafe and like go on email or whatever it is.

So I was in Australia for the remaining weeks, which I think at this point it was like something like six weeks.

And I was just eating my feelings.

I was getting bigger.

I was like, I don't care.

I'm so depressed.

Imagine having a full trip that is paid for by CBS.

You're in Australia going on all these excursions and petting koalas and you're just depressed AF.

Like that was, that was me.

I'm like, I got to snap out of it, but I just couldn't.

Yeah.

So I came back.

My husband is at the airport looking for an emaciated winner of survivor.

And

I walk past him.

He does not see me.

He does not recognize me.

You put on that much?

Yes.

Yes.

So it was strategic weight and sad weight.

But yeah,

it's an interesting time if you

want to go on it, you know.

One day.

I think I'd be pretty decent.

I think that's so cool.

Yeah.

I think that's a that's a fun aspiration to have to want to be on the show.

So I got a good balance.

I got the social stuff and I got decent physical.

So I think I'd be a good

contestant.

And like nowadays, it's so much about the storytelling.

Yeah.

Like, who, who is Sean Kelly?

How, how is he going to tell his story on the show that will resonate with a bunch of people watching it?

You know, and it's like, you're already doing this by being a podcaster.

Like, you know how to sort of craft other people's stories, craft narratives, and for yourself, too.

So I think that's a really big get.

For sure.

Were you able to predict the winner of your season?

Like, did you know that person was going to win?

I didn't predict it.

I think in some ways I was booted so early that I couldn't really see the long game.

But my strongest ally is the winner.

Oh, nice.

You played a role in it?

Maybe.

I mean, I definitely played a role in which...

He had to crawl back to be in everyone's favor because he voted for somebody else to be booted, not me.

He was on the outside of not knowing what what was going to be like the final majority vote.

And so he had to kind of crawl back into everyone's favor.

But yeah.

And I just saw him a few days ago.

Nice.

Yeah.

You should have him on your show.

Yeah, I'd love to.

He's here in Vegas.

Oh, let's do it.

All right.

I'm going to put you guys together.

Yeah.

So after that, you started getting back into YouTube and then from there you got into esports, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So YouTube went on for, gosh, I don't know, maybe like four or five more years.

And during that time, I started to think about just more of like, how do I make a larger impact on the industry that I love so much?

And

sure, I can keep putting my face on YouTube videos and

people like it and it's enjoyable and it's entertaining for some reason.

But I started to have more and more conversations with people that I knew about like, I don't know how to, but I feel like I want to and need to do more in the industry.

I want to leave more doors open.

I want more people to be part of this because personally, I've had an amazing time in the gaming industry.

And,

you know, asinine,

news headlines, galore, yes, that is absolutely a part of the industry, like it is in every industry.

But there's also pockets of amazing people that I've worked with, that I continue to work with and have worked with.

And like, it's a really great, great industry to be a part of.

So I'm like, I want to kind of be more of an example of like

getting people in here because it's fing dope.

You get to play video games and make it your job.

So I started having a conversation with somebody named Shonduras.

Somebody that I

met on

like sponsored trips and here and there at conventions and things.

And I was telling him about this.

And

he's like, you know,

how about we combine forces?

He had already started an esports company called Space Station Gaming.

Funny enough, I used to go to world championships of a video game called Smite, and I saw them their first year there.

I was like, what are you doing at Smite World Championships?

And he's like, I've got a team.

And I'm like, I'm an Instant fan.

And so that was maybe three years before we even had this conversation.

And so it was was a really organic sort of thing of like combining forces because there was a real sort of affinity and love for this organization from my side of it.

And then from his side, I mean, he just saw the vision of being able to kind of come together with like-minded content creators.

And that's what space station gaming is.

Love it.

So, what are your favorite video games of all time to play?

Nothing competitive.

Oh, yeah.

I'm part of an esports org and I love first-person

narratives.

And so Fallout New Vegas is one of my favorites.

I love The Witcher, Red Dead Redemption 2.

Good gosh.

GTA 5 will go down in history as my favorite Minecraft.

Yeah, a lot of things where I can kind of

really follow a story.

So you like the story mode stuff?

I like story mode and open world.

Open world, so like things where I can kind of create my own story.

World of Warcraft.

Less World of Warcraft.

More,

well, nowadays, like Starfield, right?

Where it's just kind of like it's got a story, but you can kind of fly around and run around wherever you want in the world.

So, I like having parameters of a story and then the freedom to do anything that I want within the world.

That's an interesting take because, as an esports owner, you don't involve in the competitive scene at all.

I myself

know that I need to be carried the entire entire time.

I can bring some humor to the group.

And if we're playing casual, I am there.

But I love being an audience member.

I think that being in an esports arena is something that I hope everyone is able to experience.

And I think...

And

I might piss off some like sports people here,

but I think that watching hockey versus being in a hockey arena, watching baseball versus being uh you know like at the stadium i think there is an energy shift that is so visceral when you're watching it live that esports is absolutely that but like times a hundred because

i i don't know you're not seeing the physicality the way that you get to see sports but you do get to see the excitement of what happens when something pops off in a game right and unless you are there if you're not fully understanding of like what the game is it's hard to kind of understand it from a screen.

The same way that I watch hockey and I'm like, I don't know, it looks all right.

And then I go to a hockey game and I'm like, just

like out of my mind, like yelling.

That's relatable, for sure.

I don't watch hockey on TV, but in person.

It's fun, right?

I mean, I'm like, my.

I got my fists on like the penalty box and like it's just so much more fun that way.

So

I think that with space station gaming, it's all about storytelling for us and communicating to the audience whether they are into the esport that they're watching or not.

They're brand new.

Maybe it's a parent.

Maybe it's a kid or somebody, you know, much, much older who's like, what is this?

We want to be able to tell the story more so that it invites a larger audience rather than kind of like gatekeeping and being like, if you don't know the game, you can't play or you can't watch.

You're not going to understand this.

Like, no, no, no, let's make it so that everyone understands it and can have fun with it because it's a really exciting place to be in.

That's cool.

I like that.

I've actually never been to an esports match, but there's a stadium here, so I'm going to check it out.

Yeah, Hyper X Arena.

Hyper X, yeah.

Big vouch.

Check it out.

Where do you see esports going?

Because I see mixed things about it on articles, but you're in the space.

So from your perspective, what do you see in the future?

It is a baby right now.

I think, you know, esports has been around,

but I think it's still in its infancy and right now we are seeing a lot of creator-led esports companies come to the fold and It's interesting.

I think it went from a really grassroots Movement in esports, you know something that was a little bit fringe something a little bit more kind of tossed off to the side is like oh you do a esports thing.

That's interesting.

Kind of the way YouTube was looked at, right?

And then a lot of corporations came in saying, Hey, there's money here.

I'll buy in.

Let's see how we can, you know, kind of like pump some money out of this.

And I feel like the same thing kind of happens with like something like YouTube.

People say, oh, there's money in this?

All right, I'll throw stuff at it.

And it kind of becomes a little bit like,

I don't know, like the voice is kind of gone.

Corporate.

Yeah.

Like, who's like, who, who's, who's really kind of,

I don't know.

Steering the ship.

Yeah, steering the ship.

Like, who's who's kind of keeping the drum bass going?

Yeah.

And so I I think it's really now moving back towards to this more creator-led, grassroots, going back to the basic sort of

industry.

And I'm really excited about that.

Space Station Gaming's been that throughout.

And, you know, I'm tooting our own horn because I'm proud of it.

But I do see with a lot of folks coming into this, like, all right,

if there was a bubble, let's see how we can, you know keep the bubble sort of intact but bring it back down to earth a little bit and so I don't think by any means is esports going anywhere but it's changing right and and I hope that it's changing for the good I think it's bringing back sort of

less gatekeepy sort of things of like, oh, you got to like throw money at the thing for you to be a part of it.

But more so, it's like, it is about the game.

It is about the experience.

It's about seeing people who are so extraordinary at the thing that we all love to do

perform at astronomical sort of like rates.

And it's like,

I think the thing with esports is that

kind of like skateboarding, everyone can kind of like pick it up.

Everyone can pick up a skateboard.

Everyone can pick up a controller.

But to really understand the difference between an esports player and like me,

you need to see where the ground is.

And you need to see where the bar is of like amateur and then pro.

Right.

And for like skateboarding, you could see somebody who is 15 feet up in the air and they might be up there with a trampoline or they might have gone off of off of a ramp and they're 15 feet up in the air.

But if you don't see where the ground is, it's really hard to tell just how far they're flying up.

Yeah.

And so I think with esports, it goes back to being able to tell the story of like, this is where the ground is and this is where these guys are right it is incredible and i think it should be celebrated that way um and i think it's up to us as an industry to tell those stories so that we are bringing in laymans we are bringing in people who are kind of curious rather than being like you don't know it you don't belong here gatekeeping yeah yeah i like that yeah i went through a phase where i was watching fortnite every day for months So I see potential in the space for sure.

Yeah.

I mean, it's like, how do you,

how do you explain Fortnite to our parents?

You know?

Yeah.

And like, how do you make them interested?

How do you make them understand what the stakes are?

And if you realize like, oh, this player is 16 years old, you know, they're, they're between,

between sessions of

fall and winter or fall and like spring during the summertime, this is when they compete, you know, like they have big aspirations for bubble.

Like, if you know what the story is, you're so much more invested.

Absolutely.

And so, I think that's a big thing with esports that at least we're bringing to the table.

Oh, yeah.

Mari, it's been fun.

Anything you want to close off with?

Yeah, appreciate you.

No, yeah, thanks for having me on.

If you want to see me, I'm at Atomic Mari, wherever and everywhere.

And if you want to support Space Asian Gaming or esports org at SpaceShip Gaming, love it.

Thanks so much for coming on.

Thanks for watching, guys.

Have a good one.