Elizabeth Pipko On Working with Trump, Free Speech & Dealing with Haters | DSH #226

Do you think it's good that the younger generations are caring less and less about politics?

I'd say they care less about like politics in general, maybe more about specific issues.

What ended up happening with that Kanye thing?

Because it kind of disappeared, right?

I hope he's over it.

I don't know.

He said a lot of really terrible things.

At the same time, I think everyone's kind of just waiting for that apology.

So.

Welcome back to the show, guys.

Digital Social Hour.

I'm your host as always, Sean Kelly.

Got with me a great guest for you guys today, Elizabeth Hipko.

How's it going?

Good, good.

Thanks for having me.

Absolutely.

Could you give people watching a quick bio on you?

Oh, God.

Yeah, I've worked in, let's say, fashion, politics, media, a bunch of other things, wrote a few books.

I'm not exactly sure what I'm known for.

Unfortunately, it's like a very broad mix.

People don't often get it, but it's also good because I'm actually known for more than just one viral moment, which means a lot nowadays.

So, yeah.

I saw you were also a model too, right?

Yes, that too.

I said fashion, so that kind of of counts, right?

Yeah.

What was that like?

I mean, that's a total different thing than what you're doing now.

I'm still modeling, actually.

Yeah, it's obviously different now than when I started at 17, but it's a lot.

I like to joke that the best way to prepare for politics was a modeling career.

So that's like the worst thing you could possibly see.

Like you think you've seen it all and you go into politics.

So I'd say that was a solid preparation.

I've done like a little bit of everything in like all the scariest industries you can imagine.

Nice.

So what made you want to get into politics?

That's a scary, scary world.

Yeah.

I always say that same phrase.

I'm sure you've heard it.

Man makes plans.

God laughs.

Don't really know how it happened, like truly an accident.

And it also happened at like the craziest time in American history that, you know, at least in the last 20, 30 years.

I ended up 21 in the middle of one of the craziest elections we've ever seen.

Did not expect it.

Probably learned, I'd say a lot more in two, three years than I probably could have learned in 10, 20 years in a different industry or different job.

So that was really special, but it was absolutely crazy.

I kind of dipped my toe in the water.

Then I took a step back, then I went back.

Now I think I'm back out, but I feel like politics is the kind of thing that once you've tasted it, you kind of can't get out.

Yeah.

So I'm going to come back in at some point.

I'm taking my time, but I'm doing things here and there, but it's truly, truly crazy.

Like nothing prepares you for that world.

Yeah, I feel like once you go down that rabbit hole, it's tough.

Yeah, you can't get out.

I try to not jump in at all, but now i envy you well now i kind of have to with the podcast and it's because the only thing anyone ever wants to talk about yeah and it gets a lot of views i don't know why for sure people love debating politics no matter what the post is or the topic being donald trump yeah it's just that they find a way to tie it in speaking of trump what was it like kind of working with him and what did you learn from him

geez um i'd say the biggest thing i learned is that nothing is as it seems because the people that like i love and trust and people i really really respect would have a very different opinion of the man that I knew or know in person.

So, I'd say just knowing how scary reality can be compared to like people's opinions, perceptions based on what they read or see or hear from others.

Um, never believe anything unless you've seen it or heard it with your own eyes was like a very solid lesson to learn.

Um, not just from him, but like from being around him, yeah.

But I mean, from him, just probably never to give up.

I think that's kind of what he's known for.

And uh, I think whether you love him or hate him, you can probably learn a lot from that.

Yeah, yeah, because you were probably hearing all sorts of stuff about him, and you kind of had to just soak it in and think if this is true or not.

And it's kind of weird.

To this day, like I'll tell people, I don't blame you for hating him because if I was on the outside reading everything I was reading, seeing what I was seeing, like I might hate him too.

Like I get it.

The things that are said about him are so polar opposite sometimes from like what you actually experience.

It's hard to imagine like these two alternate universes happening at once.

But truly, I understand because people have made it so easy to despise him and to make like that your entire personality that I understand where people are coming from.

Yeah, everyone I know that has actually dealt with him in person speaks very highly of him.

Yeah, it's kind of hard.

He has that like X Factor political thing.

I think Barack Obama has it.

You can say like a Bernie Sanders has it.

He's just kind of like the light of every room, and you like gravitate towards him.

He can fill an arena like nobody else.

And I feel like that's something really special.

Again, whether you love him or hate him, like he has like an aura about him.

Absolutely.

So being a woman in politics, what was that like?

Did you have any interesting encounters?

Let's put, I don't even know how to say it.

Yes.

I like interesting encounter.

That's how I'm going to start.

Okay.

Talking about it.

I've had some really good and really, really bad experiences.

Again, like I said, the modeling world prepared me for that.

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Because the way that women are looked at or treated, obviously, kind of relates, unfortunately.

Like you can kind of see the similarities.

I can't say I ever walked into a room and felt like I wasn't being judged right off the bat, even before opening my mouth.

I don't know if that's solely politics.

That probably happens to me in every single room.

But politics, it's kind of like the old boys club.

Like it's just, it's very hard, especially as a woman in your 20s.

And I almost don't blame them.

I mean, when I got into politics, somehow, again, don't know how it happened.

I didn't even have a college degree.

I was 21.

So I think you can imagine like the judgment there.

But no, I'd say there's really not an advantage to being a woman.

in any big industry unless you really, really are confident in yourself and know how to like navigate everything that's going to be thrown your way because it's going to be a lot.

interesting do you think it's good that the younger generations are caring less and less about politics do you think they're caring less uh i feel like they're not voting as much right i think they are i'd say they care less about like politics in general maybe more about specific issues yeah both sides really really rally around getting young people to the polls.

I think they rely on them.

And I think they know that young people now with social media also, you can't really escape issues.

Like it's always thrown at you, telling you you're right or wrong about an issue.

You see like celebrities left and right have to like say they're for or against a certain politician.

So I think it's always thrown at young people.

I don't think that's a good thing at all.

I love the fact that looking back when I was, I don't know, 12, 13 years old, I definitely could not name a single like cabinet member.

For example, nowadays, like young people know everything.

They're almost, they almost like have to pick Republican or Democrat before they like graduate high school, which is crazy.

So I'd say it's good that young people care about issues.

It's good to get involved.

It's good because, I mean, tech is expanding.

Like everything is growing and young people are at the forefront of that.

So we need young people.

At the same time, I wish people would kind of calm down because politics is not everything and you're going to evolve so many times in your life that making a decision and like aligning with a political party, even at 25, 30 years old, is a little silly.

No, for real.

Like it ruined a lot of family dynamics, especially with the Trump stuff.

Like it.

I saw it.

It was crazy.

Yeah, it's happened to me and my friends.

I mean, it's everywhere.

And it's like, it doesn't stop.

Like, I feel like I thought

kind of opened people's eyes to the fact that we literally have one life.

People around us could die at any moment.

And instead, I think people got more polarized than ever.

Yeah, because everyone was inside just getting brainwashed on the media.

So I guess it worked for them.

Yeah.

What do you think of the duopoly system like in general?

Like, do you think it's outdated?

Republicans, Democrats.

Do you like the system still?

I don't like the system.

I don't know if anyone likes it.

I think there's an argument to be made for the fact that America is super young.

Our political system is probably better.

than a lot of countries out there.

At the same time, I don't think having a two-party system, like I said, is the healthiest thing for young people.

I think if you lined up 10 people outside right now and showed them like 10 bullet points for each party's platform, no one's going to agree with all 10 and they shouldn't.

So I think that part is wrong.

At the same time, we've done a very good job at encouraging people, I think, to go against the two-party system.

And both parties don't like it, but it happens a lot now, more and more.

And I think that's really good.

I think there's a Mark Twain quote, because we have the best government.

money could buy.

I think that's the best way to put it.

It's a little cynical, but truly that's where we're at, I think, right now.

It's going to get better.

That's what the United States is about.

Like, we're always evolving.

I do think young people are pushing very, very hard, but it's, it's a sad system if you let it turn you into what it wants to.

Otherwise, you can embrace it, vote the way you want, and change up every single time because that's what we're supposed to do.

Yeah.

So, if Trump runs again, are you going to help him out?

Well, he is running.

Oh, he is?

Yeah.

We'll see if he needs me.

Okay.

Yeah.

What was that like being like, you were a campaign manager, right?

Definitely not.

Jesus.

Can you imagine?

No, I mean, usually campaign managers are like 40-year veterans.

Yeah, no, but I was one of like under 100 staffers, I'd say, in From Tower on the campaign.

Nice.

Yeah, and one of the youngest for sure.

And it was super stressful, I'd imagine.

It was a lot.

Yeah, I was also hiding it from people at the same time.

So I was like a working model at the same time and not letting anyone know what I was doing.

I was waking up at like 4 a.m.

just trying to get enough time in the day to like get my classes done because I was in school and do my modeling.

I was figure skater at the time.

That's another story.

I was at the campaign.

Like it was all day, every day.

And obviously getting spit on literally figuratively and emotionally at the same time was not easy but yeah it was it was a lot damn you were wearing a lot of hats and you went to ivy league right uh i did yeah twice technically so you're doing that which is already a full-time thing in itself and three other jobs yeah but i i saw like the school thing it's interesting i saw you've posted a few times but again like this morning i think about homeschooling and like what it means to go a different route I definitely went like polar opposite the traditional route.

So though it sounds like I like went to like middle school, high school, Ivy League, that's not at all how it happened.

And it's, I've been to like a private Orthodox Jewish school.

I attended the professional children's school in New York, which is for like working models, athletes, young actors.

I went to homeschooling.

I went to virtual schooling, which is like homeschooling, but your parents are not in charge.

I've done college in person, done college online, same with the masters, like little bit of everything.

So I think, yeah, I wouldn't just say like I went to Ivy League schools.

It's more just like they were a teeny tiny part of

the past.

So you got a unique perspective on education.

Which sort of

schooling methods were your favorite?

I mean, I loved being, I don't want to say homeschooled.

I'd say virtual schooled.

It's like homeschooling, but your parents are not involved.

You know, you have an entire school system.

Everything is, you know, virtual.

My parents made sure I submitted my assignments because my teachers would call them if I didn't.

But that was kind of it.

I'd say I only liked it as much as I did because I had truly the greatest parents in the world who instead of kind of backing off because I had someone else handling it actually became more hands-on and were like, hey, people are going to judge you forever because you didn't go the traditional route.

You have to prove to them why you did that.

So for them, it was like, you're going to take only AP courses.

You're going to do, if I got a B, like they didn't speak to me, which only happened one time.

And my mom made me redo the class.

Dang.

Yeah.

My dad was like, you're going to learn Mandarin because that's offered.

In most schools, it's like very generic French, Spanish.

They were very intent on making sure I took advantage of every opportunity.

And obviously it worked out.

So I'd say never, ever, ever go the traditional route just because it's comfortable.

Yeah.

But still work your butt off to prove why you're doing what you're doing.

Oh, I love that.

So you speak Mandarin?

I can understand plenty.

You don't want to hear me speak.

But I also speak Russian and Hebrew.

So it's a good mix.

Yeah.

What about Spanish?

I don't speak Spanish.

Okay.

I'm learning Spanish right now.

How is that?

It's good.

I should be fluent by the end of the year.

Okay.

Good.

Duolingo and then watching videos.

Yeah.

Oh, maybe I'll start and I'll beat you there.

Nah, I got a head start on you.

Okay.

So you started a movement called Let Lest People Forget?

Yeah, I mean, it's a platform, I guess.

Hopefully a movement too um

i dealt with anti-semitism on my own in general like after getting like a bit of a platform that was thrown my way immediately but i also worked in that space i ran a pack focused on support for israel and fighting anti-semitism i've done a lot on that front and on like the holocaust education front and when kanye west kind of went viral for everything he said last year um i think we all kind of fell apart internally like me being such a giant kanye west fan but it was less kanye and more, I was like very, very lucky growing up in New York City.

So I didn't understand what it was like in other parts of the country.

I didn't know that there were people who didn't really have the same opportunities I did to like learn everything that they could and have like the biggest amount of diversity of thought and people and race, religion, everything around you.

Like it's very different in other places.

And I remember during the Kanye situation, I was in Florida, met some girls at a gym who I knew who were like 16, 17 years old who asked me very basic questions about the Holocaust because they didn't know what was going on.

So I was like, okay, something has to be done.

Lest People Forget is basically a digital Holocaust museum.

You've seen them before.

A lot of people run them and they do amazing work.

But in my head, I wanted to take it a step further.

So when you go on the platform, you can also follow the very basic steps, I think, to preserve the materials on there.

So God forbid in the future we face any kind of censorship.

You just want to fight someone who...

happens to have the same views that Kanye had, for example, or anything else happens.

We have these opportunities to save the materials forever.

So the history never, ever dies.

Neither does the story.

And hopefully young people can kind of use the platform, use the opportunity to show their friends everything that they know about the Holocaust.

So we don't have a lack of knowledge like we've seen lately.

Nice.

What ended up happening with that Kanye thing?

Because it kind of disappeared, right?

I hope he's over it.

I don't know.

He said a lot of really terrible things.

At the same time, I think everyone's kind of just waiting for that apology.

So hopefully it's coming.

That's crazy.

So you are a huge fan.

So you got rid of all your Yeezys, all your music.

I only had one pair of Yeezy boots.

They're still in my closet.

I don't know.

The music is like an interesting conversation.

People always ask me, what should we do?

Yeah.

I mean, it's not my business.

I also like to separate the talent from the individual.

I mean, we still listen to R.

Kelly still plays sometimes.

People listen to Michael Jackson and fight that fight.

I mean,

you can't, I can't deny talent and people love Kanye and his music's always going to inspire for different reasons.

Doesn't mean that I can't think his statements are repulsive at the same time.

Oh, man, the R.

Kelly stuff, though.

I get that.

I get so much for this, but I still listen to R.

Kelly.

No, the music is so catchy.

It's phenomenal.

I know.

I just can't stop thinking about it whenever it pops up though.

Yeah.

I've done a good job.

I don't know.

I can separate the two.

Maybe that's something's wrong with me, but I just can't.

I'm separating, I guess.

Right.

That's what it is.

You must be good at forgiving people.

No.

Oh, you're not?

Do you hold grudges?

Yes, I do, till death.

What about separating, like, personal and business and stuff like that?

I mean, if there's a reason someone did it and I need them for business and they're not someone that actually hurt me because you know we're close then they can do whatever they want to me but if someone like if i've given someone any part of me and they've given me you know the opposite in return we are done for life so trump taught you that yeah he's very big on yeah he does that stuff oh yeah for years yeah yeah um i saw you went on value tainment i did yeah yeah what was that like that's a huge podcast it is um it was it was interesting i think I think we were talking about this before, like you can't really avoid politics.

So seeing someone like Patrick Met David, who built this giant empire, focus that heavily on politics was interesting to me I didn't know like how political the show his specific show had gotten so I thought that was interesting like people really have to kind of choose either shy away from it and keep your audience that way or lean heavily into it and hope to gain a bigger audience that way so I thought it was interesting that he you know hedges bets in the other direction and I mean he goes hardcore he has people on both sides of the aisle on which is great um he's I think leans lean's right at this point that's me being nice yeah I mean I don't don't blame anyone.

Like, everyone has their own opinion.

And I think the more people are not afraid to share it, no matter what side you're on, it hopefully inspires people who are kind of scared right now to be around.

Yeah, I'm trying to find that balance right now.

I mean, I just had on Marion Williamson.

Cool.

And then RFK is going to be coming on.

Okay.

But I like to have both sides on.

Yeah, and you should.

Yeah.

And I don't understand people that don't support it.

Yeah, most people don't.

It's very strange.

I think it is because you want to hear both sides.

You don't want to just form an opinion off one conversation.

Right.

I mean, I want to hear both sides.

So I don't.

Sure.

it's we it's like people maybe that's where the homeschooling comes in but you kind of have to be taught to think and understand that there is more perspectives out there than just what your teacher in that course taught you yeah maybe that's the non-traditional schooling route kind of coming back in for me yeah hopefully is it true people message you some nasty stuff oh yeah I saw on one podcast you said people send you swastikas they have yeah it's crazy the holocaust the Nile is worse than the swastikas like I can handle deleting a message with a swastika but for some reason like my brain forces me to read nasty messages.

Like, I can't help myself sometimes.

And when people explain to me why they know for a fact the Holocaust didn't happen, those are the worst ones.

I can handle the swastikas, although I wish they weren't happening.

But yeah, the anti-Semitic ones are really bad.

Obviously, we all get you're ugly, you're short, you're tall, fat, then, but the anti-Semitism was genuinely shocking to me.

How come people believe that?

You think they're just trolling?

Like, there's no way they actually believe it.

I mean, I hope they're trolling, but no, I know a lot of people that, I mean, they put effort into proving that the Holocaust didn't happen.

I just can't see that.

There's so much evidence.

Yeah, which is why I appreciate you.

But yeah, there's some folks out there that are actually, I mean, they get airtime.

Like people, I think nowadays, whatever it takes to go viral, people kind of allow on their platforms, which is kind of disturbing.

But yeah, people say a lot of crazy things.

Wow.

Yeah.

Man.

So what are you working on now?

Because you said you're out of the political space, right?

For now.

Yeah, I mean, it's a little bit of everything.

I think I'm out of the space in terms of like actually endorsing a candidate working for his or her campaign.

But I mean, I do radio radio and TV and I'm talking about it all the time.

Like you said, we literally can't escape that topic.

So you got your own show?

I do not have my own show.

I'm going on everyone else's shows.

I don't really want my own.

I don't know why.

I don't want to hear myself talk all day.

I think that's what it is.

See, I used to feel that way, but I noticed everyone doesn't like to hear themselves talk.

Really?

So it's like a weird.

Okay, maybe you have better people in your life because the people I know really, really, really love to hear themselves talk.

Really?

Oh, yeah.

Oh, everyone I talk to says they hate it, even all my guests.

You need to introduce me to the people that you know yeah i've never met someone that loves their voice i'm trying to think i think it's more like loves their opinion and loves you know hearing themselves out loud yeah no something about hearing myself talk though is like i get like yeah it's hard to get used to yeah but no i think you'd crush it you got to consider where are you based uh between florida and new york yeah miami or new york would be great markets yeah no there's a lot of opportunity i think it's just I'm trying to see what direction the world is going in.

And I think no one can figure it out.

I just finished school.

Like I just finished graduate school early the summer.

What did you major in?

NGO and non-profit leadership.

Damn.

Yeah.

So I was very, very focused on that.

I wanted to finish my master's in under a year.

So I just spent like 10 hours a day studying.

So kind of escaping that back to reality, trying to like figure out what to do.

Like there's so many opportunities out there, but you don't want to do the wrong ones.

Yeah.

So testing the waters.

Nice.

You're like one of my few guests that have graduated college and let alone get a master's.

I think you might be the only one.

Is that good or bad?

No, it's interesting.

Okay, good.

Yeah, because most people drop out.

Well, I'm friends with with a lot of entrepreneurs.

Yeah, they do.

So a lot of them end up dropping out.

But what do you want to do with your degree, like with the nonprofit stuff?

I mean, I had my own nonprofit.

I've done volunteer work literally forever.

I mean, everyone has big dreams and people laugh when I say it.

My dream is literally to end homelessness in my lifetime.

I don't know how that's going to happen, but it's always been my dream to run like a really big, you know, nonprofit fighting homelessness.

I think in general, I've enjoyed the not like the actual volunteer side more.

Like being behind the scenes on like the fundraising front, like those things are so horrible compared to actually like handing out meals or care packages or Christmas gifts or so many things so I'm gonna have to find like the balance between actually running a nonprofit and doing the work on the ground which is the more special part yeah but I've always been involved with nonprofits since I was like 17 so I just knew that that was where I was gonna like head in in the future it's just trying to find like a solid balance the homelessness stuff is interesting to me because I always see this stuff on social media where it's like if the richest people in the world gave everyone like 20k or whatever it wouldn't even affect them I mean every time I spend money on anything I'm like, why am I doing this when I could just.

But if you think about like political campaigns, people always say like the hundreds of millions, if not, you know, billions of dollars going into campaigns for so many candidates that end up dropping out.

Like if Ron DeSantis decided that he didn't want to run and all the money spent on Ron DeSantis' thinking ship of a campaign went to fighting homelessness in Florida, I think he'd help a lot of people.

So things like that kind of wait, so they're actually spending $100 million?

I think they're spending a lot more than that.

Yeah.

Holy crap.

I didn't even know.

Oh, so all the donations, right?

So

there's obviously small dollars, which could be five, $10, $20 from actual just Americans that want to help.

And then there's the big donors that come in.

And then there's your campaign raises money.

And then your PAC raises money.

And there's outside groups.

It's hundreds of millions.

Holy

crap.

Yeah.

I did not know that.

Even Bernie Sanders was spending that much?

I would think so.

Yeah.

You have to.

Yeah, he might have been getting it more from small dollars.

Like, I think a lot of people like Bernie, much like Trump, much like Barack Obama, they truly have the support of the American people.

Then there's candidates like Ron DeSantis who have the support of kind of like a few very, very high-profile, very wealthy, large, you know, large dollar donors.

And that's, that's very different.

Yeah, I know you're outside the space now, but who do you see winning the next election?

I don't want to predict.

It's always so embarrassing.

I don't know why people do it.

Do you think it's embarrassing?

The amount of people that will just risk it all and sit on TV and say, this is what's about to happen, I think is crazy.

How they didn't learn in 2016, like I watched the entire world predict Hillary Clinton was about to be president.

How they didn't learn from that, like not to bring him up again, but people told me like two months ago, Ron DeSantis was the next president of the United States.

And right now, there's probably nothing more embarrassing than working for like his sinking ship of a campaign.

Oh, really?

I didn't think keeping up with it.

Good.

Don't bother.

But that's the problem.

So I feel like I'm going to say nothing so I don't have an embarrassing clip go viral when whatever happens happens.

Yeah, but I will say it looks like it will be Donald Trump versus Joe Biden.

And whether you love donald trump or hate him you really really really cannot underestimate him like what he did to the machine behind hillary clinton what he did just to the republican party alone that still can't figure out how to deal with him yeah that is not a small feat so i would i would never underestimate him indictments or not yeah they're trying to lock him up yes they are

isn't he locked up right now actually no oh he's not he's never been actually locked up like he goes in for an arraignment and he gets out like two hours later what are they trying to get him for right now i saw like a week ago or something so there's four the next There's four?

There's three right now.

It's going to be another one probably the next few weeks in Georgia.

I hope, I think I'm right and that's the last one.

So why is there that many at the same time?

That's how much it takes to stop a candidate that popular.

I don't know.

It's a lot.

Damn.

Yeah.

Well,

I guess what do you want to end off with?

Anything you're trying to promote?

Not really.

Just being a decent person, I think.

It's a good person.

Not enough people trying to promote that.

Yeah.

Yeah, be a good person, guys.

Yeah, it's not that hard.

Like, it's really not hard.

Yeah, just be around good people, and usually that helps.

Yeah, true.

Or it's almost less important to be around good people, more important to get rid of bad people.

Yeah.

Where can people find you?

You can find me at Elizabeth Tipko on, I want to say Instagram, Twitter, and any other platforms on Forget Hot.

All right.

Thanks for coming on.

Yeah, thank you.

Yeah, thanks for watching, guys.

I'll see you next time.