Meet the $1B Copywriting Man | Stefan Georgi Digital Social Hour #96

And then cold emails, like, what's the strategy there?

Because I send them out daily.

I'd love to be able to get more responses.

First off, the subject line, you know, getting curiosity, getting them interested enough to open and look at the body.

So it's like an advertisement for the email.

That's all a subject line is, is an advertisement for the email.

So, like, given that, like, what really cuts through?

Like, you know, humor often can cut through, but it's got to be like funny.

People try and do really weird, random stuff sometimes.

I'm trying to think of what this guy was like, uh,

some like email about his like wife's panties or something.

This guy kept kept trying to use this weird subject line to get my attention

welcome to the digital social hour i'm your host sean kelly i'm here with my co-host wayne lewis what up what up and our guest today stefan georgi what's up guys fine how you doing man doing well how are you pretty good man.

Copyright and king.

Copyright and king.

Yeah.

Over a billion dollars in copywriting.

Sheesh.

Let's dive into how that happened.

Yeah, I mean, well, I guess it starts in Vegas, right?

So my dad passed away in 2011, and I went to Vegas a little bit after that to blow off Steam.

And I met a girl at a poker table.

She was a copywriter.

I didn't know anything about copywriting, but we ended up dating.

And then I took a job in South Florida.

I was making like $200 a day.

I had to come home from Yozana.

I had a sales job.

So I was driving around in traffic, all that.

And, you know, she was like in her underwear drinking a beer and she made like $1,200 in the same day.

And so I was like, I want to try that out.

Like, what is copywriting?

You know, I really, like, I knew that she wrote like ads kind of, but I didn't really know,

you know, like what it meant.

So I basically wrote like an ad.

My first piece of copy ever was an ad for somebody to hire me as a copywriter.

And I think I charged like $147 for basically to write an an ad for somebody.

And I put it up, and I woke up the next morning.

I had like $2,

whatever it was, $96, $290 in my paper.

It was on a website called Warrior Forum,

which I think is still kind of around, but it was like a lot of like, honestly, it's funny.

It was like people making like little SaaS products, but they weren't valued from an enterprise level with sort of, you know, Facebook.

like ad scraper like you know this tool that goes through and scrapes all the ads and a lot of kind of like diy stuff before facebook had those tools and a lot of stuff like that so people needed

they'd create these products.

They'd hire a copywriter to write the ad that they put on the form and then other people would buy it.

And if they made like a million dollars on a launch, that'd be like a really big deal for them most of the time.

But it was great for somebody just starting out for sure.

And so that's how I dove in.

And

that was like 2012, I guess.

And then I sort of,

I mean, you know, I can, I can, I don't want to go too deep or too long on the story, but you know, I just sort of went on up work right at the time.

I was Elance and started getting clients there.

And I would sort of do whatever.

so people might be like uh

I mean I did like research I wrote people's college papers I did like anything you know like whatever it was

the only fans wasn't around at the time so couldn't show me money but I had to figure something out and uh but I kept going back to copywriting got got hired by this company out of Romania that was like doing informational products so like e-books guides on stuff like everything from alternative health to like investing.

Like I wrote like a like a Bitcoin like a guide and sort of like how to make money Bitcoin thing in 2014 wow which we by the way never published and then i've been looking back at that in hindsight like that was you know like i probably should have probably should have followed that like yeah she was wrote an article on how to make money from bitcoin in 2014.

yeah so my wife was like by 2013

she was into bitcoin was like 20 bucks right yeah like she was using it to play online poker basically and so and i'm like this is you know like everyone in my oh this is kind of dumb whatever but then you know it was starting to get more momentum and i had another friend who was into it so i basically pitched the publisher like, hey, let's do a guide on how to trade Bitcoin.

And it was like, oh, there was no

Coinbase or things like that at the time.

So it was much more technical.

So created a guide and then wrote a sales letter, like an ad for, hey, you could make money by buying Bitcoin.

But it was so early, I guess, that

they never ended up publishing it.

And I didn't really push for it.

But it was cool basically with that role of these guys.

Their entire thing was like, we have the team.

We can create

informational products, books, guides for

really whatever topic.

So they're like, you just come to us with ideas and then we'll make the product.

You just write the advertisements for it.

So like everything from like sports betting to like health stuff to law of attraction stuff to like self-defense, really any kind of niche or category, like seeing like how to make your own alternative energy like engines, like just all kinds of weird.

And

so it's kind of neat because I really got like a wide breadth of experience, I guess.

And they ended up doing 100 million their first year and then based on that copy and had a lot of success after that.

And

yeah, I just sort of kept going.

I can, you know, that was up to about 2014, 2015.

Wow.

And then from there, you left on your own and started doing jobs on your own, right?

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

I started some of my own companies.

Like I started a supplement company that did pretty well and

partnered in some companies and did client stuff, did some agency work.

And now with the emergence of AI, do you see that disrupting the copywriting industry massively?

Oh, yeah, definitely.

Definitely.

Like, are you you nervous at all?

I'm not nervous because I embraced it really fast.

So you're using it right now?

Oh, yeah.

I mean, we started like a new, we started a new agency like six months ago that's already done a multi-million, like several million dollars.

And like, like, it's purely AI.

Like, we're doing short form, long-form copy.

We just jumped right on it immediately.

And so we're in a leadership position where then we're helping other copywriters and marketers and stuff.

But it's really interesting because there's still a lot of people who

think it's a fad or who don't understand it.

It's very weird to see older people, right?

Yeah, older people.

Even

younger, too.

I have somebody tell me, AI,

you're panicking over AI.

Told me I was panicking, which I wasn't.

I was just enlightening them and told me that you're worried about something that's going to happen 10 years from now.

Or

some 50 years from now.

And I'm like, no, it took them 50 years to get to this point.

Yeah, facts.

It's happening for sure.

Yeah, it's happening now, for sure.

Yeah, some people think it's a fad because I guess what happened with Web3, but I think AI is here just to.

I mean, it definitely is.

It's just, it's a good tool, right?

And right now, it's like for copywriters, marketers, whatever, it's like the perfect complement to what you do.

It's like it can do a lot of the heavy lifting for you.

You still need to have ideas.

You still need to kind of understand how to piece things together.

And you're more of like a strategist, and it's more of an executor.

And that's...

really powerful and also knowing how to talk to it right like we have prompts that we use that are like 2,000 words long like I mean extremely extremely long prompts where we're basically giving it really detailed sets of directions it's really like you're like a human like the new programming language is like english basically right yeah yeah and so you're basically like a coder now which is great for me because i was never super mathematically inclined but i'm extremely like verbally inclined right and so this is like i'm like a special place in time i think but but again it's about embracing it i see a lot of people who aren't and i I think, you know, I think it's scary.

Yeah.

I think it's scary.

There's disruption for sure.

Yeah, you said coding.

I didn't even think about it.

AI could affect programmers' jobs.

Well, no, it definitely is.

No, it is affecting a programmer's job, but he's saying us inputting the information or what we wanted to actually do is actual code.

Right.

Right.

It's like HTML.

Like natural language programming.

Yeah, yeah, but it's natural language.

Yeah, because the prompting is important.

Yeah, absolutely.

Because as soon as you hit, you have to write prompts.

Yeah.

Yeah, because I'll type a sentence and then it'll come out bad, but then I'll type like a paragraph.

Yeah.

And I got a whole legal document ready to go.

Exactly.

So it actually responds better when it's more detailed.

Yeah, definitely.

Yeah.

And then for cold emails, like, what's the strategy there?

Because I send them out daily.

I'd love to be able to get more responses.

So when you say cold, I mean, you have like a list of people who have never heard from you before at all?

Yeah, a list of people I want to get on the podcast.

Maybe it's a brand that I want to work with, stuff like that.

I mean, I think, you know, the same with whether you're selling the podcast or product or anything.

It's like, first off, the subject line.

And like, really.

All the subject line is, is like, you know, getting curiosity, getting them interested enough to open and look at the body.

So it's like an advertisement for the email.

That's all a subject line is: is an advertisement for the email.

So, like, given that, like, what really cuts through?

Like, you know, humor often can cut through, but it's got to be like funny.

People try and do really weird, random stuff sometimes.

I'm trying to think of what this guy was, like, uh,

some like email about his, like, wife's panties or something.

This guy kept, he kept trying to use this weird subject line to get my attention, and it's got my attention, but it was like the wrong way.

You know what I mean?

I'm like, I don't know, like, you seem to be kind of weird.

I'm not gonna reply.

So, but it's gotta be like funny, or it's gotta be maybe personal.

You know what I mean?

Like, honestly, like

something like even just using somebody's name, right?

And like, hey, like, got a question for you, Sean, or I got a question, you know, whatever, something like that.

Um, like something that feels personal.

Because I'd say maybe once a month I get like duped by one of those where I'm like, I'm like, I know this is probably just like a BS solicitation, but it feels so personal and real that I still open it.

And it's like, oh, yeah, it's just a solicitation.

And then, um,

you know, in the body copy, I think it's sort of like classic stuff like building rapport, connecting, like, you know, showing credibility, social proof, right?

For saying like what you're doing with the podcast, like, you know, I don't know, you mentioned I think like

the content from this podcast gets seen over 100 million times a month, right?

So it's a pretty impressive thing.

That's like, you know, making sure you lead with that.

And then what's in it for them, right?

Because with all copy, it's always

like the reader or the prospect's always thinking, what's in it for me?

And so the mistake we make a lot of times is like you have that 100 million views per month.

That's a great stat.

You want to get that in there.

but then it's, you know, so you know, how can this help them, their brand, their platform, or maybe in something deep?

Like, what's the good cause?

If you look and research, maybe they're passionate about a non-profit, right?

And

if, like, you know, a lot of famous people, like, the angle is all about, you know, you can make money or you can, and they're like, dude, I have a ton of money.

I don't care about money.

But like a nonprofit or something that's near and dear to their heart.

Yeah, it's emotional.

It's an attachment.

It's smart.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Speaking of emotion, you're really good at bringing emotion into copy, which is kind of hard to pull off, right?

Yeah.

Because copy is just words.

How are you able to pull that off?

Man,

I mean, I think I'm very empathetic naturally.

You know, I try to really,

like, I used to call it, like, being like a, I think there's like a shaman where like they'd be called like skin walkers, right?

Where they put on like the pelt of like a wolf and they become the wolf or like whatever it is.

And I try to really do that.

And like.

When I'm really writing good copy, I really try to embody that person to the point where if I'm writing as a, you know, angry 60-year-old woman, like I, like, I feel like, oh, like I almost feel like that or an angry 60 year old man I'm like almost like shaking with rage or I'm feeling the emotion I'm really trying to imagine myself like in that moment and then I just try to really transfer that into the words that I write gotcha

wow and what was sort of your first like big breakthrough when you went off on your own and left that company that did a hundred million yeah so I had a line of like uh health supplements where essentially the market for that company was like conservative christian 50 plus, right?

It still is their market.

They're still around, still doing really well.

But

we were doing all informational products, and I sort of felt like, well, you know, like, I knew that health supplements were a big space, and I knew that market now pretty well.

So I'm like, what if we just do, you know, supplements for them?

Because they're buying all these guides, but if you can give them high-quality, you know, supplements, maybe it can help them get better health outcomes or support their health or whatever.

But since they're Christian, I'm like, why don't we just do like biblical supplements?

So basically, I did like a line of supplements where the ingredients came, were all all mentioned in the bible so like a biblical blood sugar supplement and um like a biblical weight loss supplement and even like a um like like ed like erectile dysfunction is a big category right but i'm like well i can't it's hard to sell like ed like a lot of ed type of offers are kind of like about you know i don't know if i can cuss it out but yeah they're kind of like crudely marketed let's say so like but i read an article about this pastor in like uh Texas whose whole, I think it was in Texas, but his whole thing was bring God back into the bedroom and how like God wanted you know you and your wife to be making love and how that was sort of, you know, kept the family closer and all this stuff.

So I was like, man, I'd read it like a year before, maybe two years before, but it really just stuck with me.

So I created this one called Trinity X3 that was like for the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, but it was also for him, for her, and for both of you.

And so the idea was it was like this biblical like intimacy supplement that could bring husband and wife together so they were honoring God in the bedroom.

And I actually crushed it with that because then it was like, first of all, I didn't have to just sell to men, which, you know, cuss off half the market.

Second of all, I gave them permission.

We had a pastor guy as our spokesperson as well.

So it was coming from him.

And I was giving them permission to like, you know, be sexual and things like that.

Oh, wow.

And so that one, yeah.

So the budget, all of them did pretty good.

So I did like a million the first year,

but I lost money.

I almost like, you know, kind of quit and gave up or whatever.

And then the second year, we did like 23 million.

So we had a pretty

hockey stick on that.

Yeah.

And was that just you yourself or you had a team?

I had a team.

I mean, I was the sole owner of it, but I had a team and had to learn a lot of them too.

And the margins are good in copy business, right?

Yeah, both in supplements and with copy and general.

I mean, when you're writing the copy, your margins are super high, obviously.

It's just the time, right?

The biggest problem copywriters run into is scaling time.

Like I talk about right now, because we have this agency that's doing well, but because I have two partners in that, it's like our margins are 65%, but then I'm splitting of two partners.

And so currently, it's like I could do like a quarter of the work, write like two to three sales letters a month and make $100,000 to $150,000 a month.

I'm doing way more work than that currently and I'm making like, you know, 30 or 40,000 a month on this agency.

Now I'm doing it because if we keep scaling it and

the long-term upside is significantly higher, we're incorporating AI.

We're trying to do all these things where we want to sell that agency in like 18 months for a good big exit.

But yeah, copywriting is like time is really your limiter.

But with supplements, yeah, the margins are

pretty good depending on how you acquire customers, but like

30%, maybe up to 40%, which is pretty good for a physical product.

Very good for e-commerce.

That's not bad at all.

With copywriting, you're trading time for money, though.

I see what you're saying.

It's like a limited scale, right?

Yeah, there's like a trap.

And then a lot of people who, I think this is true for a lot of people who are really skilled, like, you know, technicians, so to speak, they

like they go to create an agency.

So this is like my third agency that I'm doing now.

And after the second one, I was like, I'm never doing an agency again.

Why?

I hate the agency model.

Because it's, I mean, I don't like dealing with clients, sort of.

It's like a pain, you know, to have like,

this is a lot of moving parts.

You know, if you're hiring contractors, clients

can be annoying, all these sorts of things.

And I just found it to be a lot when I was like, I can just go my cave and write and make a lot of money anyway.

Right.

But then with AI, it was like, you know what, we can do this with a lot of high leverage where

we can produce more copy and do it more efficiently.

And so I came back to it.

But a lot of people, I think, and it's valuable for people who listen or watch this, right?

It's like they get really good at doing something, but they're tired of fulfilling because of the time thing.

And they're like, man, I'm at this ceiling, right?

And so then it's always like, well, I like the selling part.

I love when people send me the money.

That part's great.

So they're like, you know, if I could just get other people to do the fulfillment, I can be the sales guy.

It'll be great.

But I think the mistake people make is like, they don't understand that an agency really is running a business, right?

It is.

So suddenly it's like hiring.

It's like, you know, managing those employees or contractors.

You know, there's like the accounting stuff.

You've also got to like work work on the client satisfaction.

There's just a lot of steps, and I think people become overwhelmed.

The quality of the work slips,

they actually end up making less money because they're redoing.

They don't really know how to manage, so they redo the work, right?

And this is true whether it's copy or like media buying or photography or whatever it is, right?

They're end up redoing a lot of it, and then they're actually making less per hour than if they had just never started an agency at all.

That's wild.

Yeah.

Yeah, I don't like the agency model, to be honest.

Not as a customer.

Well, I mean, if it, this, it just depends on your business model I mean what works for you will is what works you know I'm talking about marketing agencies because with Facebook ads they'll charge you monthly right and then a percent of your ad spend yeah the incentives aren't really aligned there yeah but they're doing all most of the work they're doing most of the work but they don't care if you are not profitable or if you're or the other way around they don't care they just want to get paid every month you know what i mean but that's because most run it off their own template and what they feel like is a formula for them but every you have to cater to every different business i mean every different business has to be catered differently yeah even from ads, you know, verbiage, anything.

I mean, but it depends on how much they care about your business.

For sure.

And that's the problem with a lot of them.

I think that they care like on some like high level, but they've got too many things going on.

Yeah.

So it's like you talk to the business owner and they're like, they care a lot, but then they've just got a bunch of employees or people who don't never had a business before, don't know the business, don't care about the business model and just run a dry template and hopefully you get some sales and return the next month or fulfill the contract and move on to the next.

100%.

Let's get a little controversial here.

Let's do it.

I saw on your Facebook, you tweeted out that taking Adderall changed your life.

Oh, yeah.

Why are you such a fan of Adderall?

Well, because it changed my life.

But

yeah, I mean,

so when I was here in Vegas in 20,

maybe

18, 19, and, you know, so I lived here for like seven years in Vegas, and

I got like

seasonal depression, right?

So like it was like sort of getting dark earlier.

I'm feeling depressed.

I'm like drinking more.

I'm like moody.

And I went to go see like a therapist or whatever about it.

And so we're talking and he's kind of like, all right, well, like, what's your schedule like during like the winter?

And I'm like, you know, I just go to my office.

I go home.

It's like dark.

I'm like kind of depressed.

I don't want to do anything.

So I just drink whatever.

He's like, all right, like.

What do you do during the summer?

I'm like, well, after work, I might go play golf, go do dinner.

I'm like, way more active.

He's like, okay, so you're way more active, you know, during the summer and you're not depressed.

I'm like, yeah.

And he's like, you're not active during the winter and you are depressed.

I'm like, yeah.

And he's like, all right.

He's like, well, you know, basically, the idea was that there was less act.

It was, I was more, the inactivity of just sitting there and not having anything to, I was getting bored because of the hyperactivity of ADHD.

And then he was like, well, have you ever been diagnosed with that before?

And I'm like, well, yeah.

And he's like, all right, what happened last time?

So I've been like 2013, 14.

And I'm like, well, you know, I

became a millionaire for the first time in my life, started these multiple businesses.

You know, he's like, did you have seasonal depression?

I'm like, no.

And he's like, and then what?

I'm like, well, then I stopped taking it.

He's like, okay, like, well, maybe you should get back on your medication.

And I was like, yeah, that kind of makes sense.

Like, because I'd taken Modafinol previously.

So I got back on Adderall.

And I just noticed that

the mood swings went away.

I was more attentive with my family.

My daughter's five now.

She was a lot younger.

And that was a big thing.

He was really big.

I think so many people would take Adderall because

think about for work, or they should be in college or when they were

working on some project.

And so, that's how, but really, you should take it like, if you have true ADD or ADHD, you should take it daily because it's not just about

being productive with work, it's about being present with your family.

And so, when I'm not on it, it's like I, you know, if I'm having this conversation and my daughter's yelling over here and something's going on over here, I'm like a hot mess, right?

When I'm on it, I'm like,

Yeah, and I can't, it's like it's like a sensory overload.

Um, so yeah, I just became more present, more focused, going out, like having like dinners at a loud restaurant.

I used to like, I'd go to the bathroom just to like have a minute to like be like in silence, like without fail.

I would just go to the bathroom so that I could, I need, I almost needed like peace because I had to like my sensory component to like calm down because I was like overstimulated.

And like a loud restaurant, right?

Or a big table, a big group of people.

Like all that stuff went away.

I drank less because I wasn't having as much social anxiety because I could actually focus and have conversations.

I actually stopped drinking entirely maybe five months ago.

Yeah, same time.

He doesn't drink at all, though.

So it just made a huge difference.

I mean, and yeah, productivity too, and all that.

Wow, but you don't think there's a way to treat it naturally, or do you think that's the only way?

No, like his um ADHD, he can microdose on ADD.

I actually started microdosing a little while back, like not all the time, but I have like a little 0.1 grams of whatever.

Whatever food that's a microdose, yeah, yeah, so which has been cool.

I mean, for me, it's almost like uh,

yeah, and yeah, it does help a little bit, but I think you can do it naturally, but I

personally, like, I take a pretty conservative dose of adderall i try to vary it so that i do take it every day but like i'm prescribed up to 30 milligrams the total for the day but you take less than that most of the time yeah okay and and the most you can get prescribed is i think 120 or 140 or something crazy like that so it's small i don't know that's a crazy amount that sounds nice

and i was like the whole time i start at 20 i'm up to 30 which i but again i don't take the full amount basically so your body's not dependent on it right yeah yeah like yesterday for example i took like my full morning dosage and I took like

basically like a quarter of a quarter in the afternoon.

So I took like maybe like 17 milligrams yesterday, you know, because it's like, again, I don't want to be dependent and build that tolerance, you know?

So for me, it's like I can sleep on it.

I go to bed like 10 o'clock.

I sleep like eight hours most nights.

Is there a side effect to it?

I don't really have one, honestly.

Oh, there's no burnout or anything?

I don't think so.

I think it happens when people, I think most people like don't.

take it regularly then they take like you know 30 milligrams which for me is well i want to take it all at once but they take like 30 milligrams at once then they feel like they're on crack for like a day or two and then they're like i don't know how you can take that every day man it's like because i don't feel that way is it like a rush or something i've never you're focused you're locked in you're locked in so why does it feel like you're on crack if you're focused i mean it's strong it's this strong if i like when i went back on it like in 2019 or whatever it was i basically told myself like I know I might feel a little cracked out, but I'm going to give it a week and just see.

Because the first couple of days I did feel a little bit weird, but then your body like acclimates to it pretty quickly.

And then you like don't feel weird after that, you know.

But a lot of people just take it sporadically and they take way too much of a dosage, yeah.

So they feel like they're like they're overdosing on meth or some, you know what I mean?

So I think that's a huge part of it.

So, what's next for you?

You made a ton of money, you got kids, what's what's the next goal?

Yeah, I mean, I think the agency side of it, like I really want to do with AI, I think there's just so much opportunity here right now.

So, I really want to

I really want to sell the agency for nine figures, which is it's not easy to sell an agency for that much, but I think like we've got a lot of

internal SaaS things that we're developing.

We've got a lot of interesting processes.

So I think that's one of the plays.

And

besides that, I think just keep teaching, sharing, investing.

Might write a book soon with the help of AI.

That'd be sick.

Now, with agencies, the valuation, it's a multiple of revenue, right?

Yeah, but if you can position it like a SAS.

With a SaaS, so then you'll get a 10 to 20X.

That's like the hope there, yeah.

It's like the idea is almost like a strategic buyer because it's like, okay, we're like, we can just solve copy like we basically want to just solve copywriting right and there's stuff like like if you like jasper and things like that but like they don't really like they solve it for like a small business owner who has a flower shop and just wants to send like okay emails yeah like they solve it for that person but they don't solve it for anyone who really wants to like generate sales and drive revenue like it's really not you know and so we're there's obviously the thought of like we could just build a sas that competes with them and i wanted to do that my partners were a little more wary so we might still go that route but i think um even if we just do it internally with the agency, so if somebody, you know, there's companies that buy all these agencies, right?

They roll up agencies.

So it's like, if they can take all of our like sort of processes and proprietary stuff and deploy that across 200 agencies that are all doing media buying and suddenly we solve ads for 200 agencies.

You guys

improve their revenue and make their companies run way more efficient.

Exactly, yeah.

You're basically selling your business model.

Exactly.

Not the actual agency.

Copy is a huge issue, too.

Most people can't write at all.

At all.

To be honest.

I didn't do well in English class growing up.

Plus, you know, well, I'm dyslexic, so I hate anything when it comes to overriding or texting.

Bro, I was that kid that literally got caught.

My teacher pulled me to the side.

She said, I know you plagiarized.

You got detention.

Literally, like, she called me out.

So now there's Chat GPT and everyone's doing it.

Yeah, I think AI is perfect.

I mean, that's a solid business model, especially when it comes to getting, you know, acquired by someone.

Yeah, for sure.

It's hot.

Any closing comments man that was great appreciate that um you know one more controversial thing i've been thinking about recently is that like uh

you know this is sound really funny but i was in a room of entrepreneurs recently and i was like hey how many of you were like ever a

right and like like half the room raised their hand and like i'm not talking about like you know breaking bad but like you sold a lot in high school whatever it was right and like the more i've thought about that the more i'm like We shouldn't shame people who are dealers because I'm like, you know what?

That's like the first entrepreneur foray for a lot of people, right?

What were they doing?

They were learning like all these sort of like sales skills, like managing inventory, customer service.

I know it sounds kind of funny, but I was like, you know what?

Profit margin.

Yeah, profit margin, like all that kind of quality of product, right?

Structure, business model, where you're standing, where you're at, who's your customer, understanding your customer.

Yeah, so many things like that.

Yeah.

Like, and again, I remember one time I had like, I got, I bought like a pound of like supposed to be good.

It was like terrible, and I had a really hard time selling it.

So you were like, okay, well, I got quality assurance.

Like, know the product before you buy.

Like, there's so many lessons that you learn.

And so

I have another friend who kind of says be criminal.

And I'm not saying be criminal, like, go break, like, you know, rob people and, but, like, just like having that mentality of like, take those lessons that you've learned in life and even things that maybe like some people look at as being like they're afraid of or ashamed of from their past.

And, like, really, like, think about all the good that came from that.

And don't be so afraid to sort of almost like congratulate yourself for what you've, you know, how that helped you get to the next level.

Absolutely.

There's a lot of entrepreneurs that were dealers.

Majority of them.

I would say.

More than 50, I'd say, yeah.

Yeah.

He saw some kind of form or did something illegal at some point for sure.

Entrepreneurs is just what they are,

they're willing to take a little risk, you know.

That's entrepreneurs, a nice way of saying risk-taker, absolutely, yeah, weighing anything.

Um, thank you guys for watching.

Thanks for tuning in, digital social hour.

See you guys next time.

Peace.