From Ouija Board to Shapeshifter: Exploring the Paranormal with Jay Wasley | Digital Social Hour #53

I had a friend actually get possessed during a Ouija board and try to s me in the throat with a whoa.

My ex-wife was our photographer.

You know, she's behind the scenes, just taking photos while we're doing interviews.

We look over and she just starts getting affected and got real aggressive, real negative.

So you guys got divorced after

this is over.

Something you're done.

Had like an overwhelming sense of like beauty.

Whoa, whoa, there you go.

Was that a ghost?

What the f is you?

No way.

No fucking way.

No way.

You should have got up.

We're just going to take a break to change your shorts.

Welcome to the Digital Social Hour.

I'm your host, Sean Kelly.

I'm here with my co-host, Wayne Lewis.

What up, what up?

And our guest today, Jay Wasley.

How are you doing, buddy?

Thanks for having me on.

This is fun.

Mr.

Grossbuster himself.

Hope I didn't bring any other friends to the studio.

I hope not.

No.

I live by myself.

Not anymore.

Has that happened to you, though, where you investigate a place and then they come home with you?

Yeah, it actually has, you know, especially, I mean, we've been doing it for 13 years now.

And I know at the beginning, you know, well, to backtrack, it's kind of weird when we investigate, you want to open yourself up, right?

Because

we want to experience it.

We want to capture the evidence.

so you there's a level of opening yourself up to this stuff and i think at the beginning i didn't realize that how important it was to close yourself afterwards you know like basically leaving work at work uh and it's happened we've come home and all of us like through the years like we feel like we get you know oppressed we're all happy chill guys you could tell like something's wrong like especially if it's a really intense negative energy we're dealing with and it just lingers it comes with you uh i was living in nashville for a while for some reason that house got it the worst I don't know if it was just the timing or what.

I would have friends come over and spend the night, and they say they woke up to a lady standing at the foot of their bed.

And I would wake up at like two in the morning, my dog's just

growling at the corner of the house.

There's nothing there.

And I'm like, all right, dude, just go back to bed.

I was actually married for a while, and my ex-wife was our photographer, so she would travel with us doing behind-the-scenes photography.

And she was at a location called Goatman's Bridge in Denton, Texas.

And, you know, she's behind the scenes, just taking photos while we're doing interviews.

And we look over, and she just starts getting affected and got real aggressive, real negative.

Your wife, too?

Yeah.

And we're like, shit, what's going on?

So we approached her and we started talking to her, and she just was not herself.

You could tell, like, and I've seen people now, like, there's a change in the eyes that happened, you know, and then you see it and you're like, whoa, all right, like, that's not them.

So something was in her.

Yeah, something was in her, something was affecting her.

So you guys got divorced after

this is over.

Something's in you.

We're done.

Overall, yeah.

I mean, you know, we tried to go through different things.

Also, that lasted?

Yeah, for a little bit, for like a few more months.

A few more months.

Yeah, she took time off the show.

We were like, just stay home, try to chill, try to relax.

Did you do an exorcism?

We never had a chance.

An exorcism, though.

I mean, she got possessed, bro.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So we like were trying, you know, just...

you know, do what you have to do, take a break, shake it.

And then she just kind of started declining from there and got a little bit of a break.

So did you introduce her to another guy?

Like, look, this is my wife, but you can have her.

Oh, man.

But it just, you know, it just didn't pan out.

It just didn't work.

She couldn't shake it.

Ultimately, she did, I think, just totally getting away from, like I said, that was in Nashville, too.

So, I don't know if it was the house that just like everything coming home to that house just like it was oversaturated

with like negative energy, I guess.

Wow.

You know, it's what I do every other week for 13 years.

So, I kind of guess I'm sadly used to it.

So, would you consider yourself like a dark person?

No, I think I'm a very positive person.

I don't well not dark in like not negative, but like dark in the sense of like you've been doing it for 13 years.

It's like you've dealt with so many different energies.

It's kind of hard not to be like, like you're engulfed in it.

Oh, you're totally engulfed in it.

I mean, even just the history, we go to places that like, oh, that was a mass ⁇

This guy with an axe chopped up a family.

Like, you know, it's it gets to you after a while.

But I think I've learned now, like, over the years, to really be able to ground myself and kind of like focus on what I need to focus on to keeping that positive energy and basically leaving anything negative at the location.

How do you cleanse?

I use a Paula Santo.

It's kind of like a Sage.

It's actually these wooden sticks from South America that I think work better than Sage.

Wow.

We have a whole other show that we do now called House Calls where we focus on people's actual homes and try to go in and help them kind of cleanse their homes and things and deal with whatever there.

And I find Paula Santo works better than Sage.

But also for me, I think it's big, like your mental state that you're in at the time.

Like, if you're dealing with something negative, and this is across the board, like, even just in life, you know, not even dealing with paranormal, I think keeping whatever it is that makes you happy.

You know, if you're religious, you pray, you do whatever you want to do to create that positive energy.

For me, I like to create.

I'm an artist.

I'm a musician.

I come home after an intense investigation.

I go to my recording studio.

I play music.

I write.

I create films.

I just do something creative with that energy to make me feel positive or I'll go hike in nature, you know, ground myself and, you know, take my dog for a hike, things like that, just to, you know, whatever it is, whatever it is to keep you positive and just not let that negative energy overtake you.

So, okay, are ghost real?

Yeah, 100%.

I mean, I've been doing this a long time, you know, professionally, 13 years and even before, we can go back when I was a kid, I've had paranormal experiences.

Wow.

From seeing things in the woods and kind of like, I was a weird kid growing up.

I kind of was into weird stuff and just everything I just wanted to know like what is out there you know like myths and you know mythological creatures and you know crypto you know zoology things like that like I was all into it so I studied all of it and then had experiences had crazy experiences with the Ouija board as a teenager really yeah I had a friend actually get possessed during a Ouija board and try to me in the throat with a whoa

you serious yeah 100% that was absolutely terrifying this was uh

I mean to back up this was I mean I was like 17.

I was playing in a band.

It was like, we finished band practice, and we're like, all right, let's do the Ouija board tonight.

And it's crazy.

Like, you sell these things in a toy story.

Yeah.

You know, like 10 bucks.

Right.

And we're just like, all right, let's go all out.

We really want to experience this.

We want to have like a creepy, scary experience.

And we're young and dumb.

Like, we didn't know.

So we get everything like ritualistic we can.

We have incense, we have candles, we have a dagger, we have like a ball of water, just anything ritualistic.

We're like, let's go all out tonight and just really, you know, freak ourselves out, I guess.

So we started playing, and it started talking to us, and it kept saying its name was Z something.

And it said it was a little boy spirit, which, first of all, you can never trust these things because, like, how do you know who you're really talking to?

But it claimed to be a little boy.

And then I noticed the incense smoke was blowing down to the dagger that we had.

And I was like, that's kind of weird, right?

So I pick up the dagger, I move it to the other side, the smoke changes and goes to the dagger again.

Wow.

I'm like, all right, this is kind of weird.

I was like, hey, everyone, check this out.

I just started moving it around.

And everywhere I moved it, the smoke would actually follow to the dagger.

So then I was like, hey, are you attracted to the dagger?

And it said, yes.

And I was like, all right.

And then I asked the stupidest question I've ever asked in my entire life.

I said, can you come through the dagger into us?

And it said, yes.

And we're all like, all right, like we take our hands off.

We all step back.

We're like, all right, like, like, what are we going to do here?

You know, like, all right, we're like, well, this is what we wanted.

We wanted to go all out.

We wanted to experience it.

So, like, we're like, let's do it.

So, me and my buddy, the other guitarist, like, we're like all right we'll do it we'll both hold the dagger it was in a sheath you know like so you can hold it uh so we both lay on the ground we hold it we're like all right you can come through us now i got this feeling of just overwhelming sadness it's the weirdest feeling like to feel sadness in your toes like just from my toes all through my body it was just like a feeling of sadness i'm remember we're on our backs so he jumps up Now his knees are on my shoulders and he's trying to pull the knife out of the sheath and we're fighting and he's up on top of me.

He breaks it open, pulls it out of the sheath, and he pushes the knife towards my throat.

And I'm holding him like this, shaking, like as hard as I can, like holding him back.

And it's past my chin.

So it's like, damn, if I let go

a percent, he would have like just jammed it right through me.

Wow.

Probably lasted like maybe 10 seconds.

He just suddenly went limp, full tears, crying, had no idea what happened, and was just like, just totally shaking.

And we're just like, all right, I guess we're done.

Like,

we got it.

We got more than what we wanted, you know.

This was at your house, yeah.

Well, we kind of started in my parents' basement, uh, and then one of our buddies had to be home.

So we're like, all right, let's move it over to your place.

And we invited it.

We're like, come with us, we're going to go over to this place.

You guys invited the demon.

Like, hey, what are you doing today?

Just come.

What you doing?

Okay.

That's insane.

So, just dumb dean.

Let me ask you a question.

With ghosts, are they stuck here?

Because to my understanding, they get there's a realm that we pass, right, our spirits leave our body, right?

But some of us are either disturbed or we feel like there's unfinished business or something's going on, so we kind of get stuck here in this planet.

Then we start to torment, or is it tormenting a demon, right?

Or, like, what's the difference?

Like, what actually happens?

Why are it goals here?

Right.

See, so, first of all, I'll always say, like, I don't know 100%.

Like, I've experienced a lot of things, and I have theories, and I have a lot of evidence, we've captured a lot of things, but I'm not the type of person that's like, it's this 100%.

But like, my theory, there's two types of hauntings that we kind of break things into.

The first one is called residual haunting, where like I try to describe it as if, like, say, you walking up and down this hallway, you sit in that chair every day, and you pass away.

Like, a bit of your energy, it makes sense, your energy still sticks around, and a little bit of your energy could still be like just lingering in that hallway or sitting in a chair or something like that.

And under the right circumstances, the right variables, also with the right perspective, like an open mind, things like that, you can actually capture and basically experience some of that energy.

Okay.

Kind of like a loop.

Like, it's just like a record.

You can feel it just like going on a loop.

You could feel it.

But feel not here to hurt you.

Right.

It's just like a lingering vibe.

And like, that's kind of, you know, I kind of relate it to like, have you ever been in a room working and something, and you can just feel that someone walked in the room, like, even before they say anything, you're like, oh, someone's in here.

Like, there's just that feeling.

Even when you're asleep, you can kind of feel someone walking around.

So that's the one kind of haunting.

And that 100% makes sense to me.

You know, I'm a a big believer in energy, positive and negative energy as well.

If there was like a mass

evil thing, there's going to be some dark negative energy that's stuck there and left over from that.

So that makes sense.

That's the easy one to me.

The hard part is the intelligent communication, the intelligent haunting.

And we get those a lot where we'll ask questions.

Intelligent haunting?

Yep.

Where we will ask questions.

We use different devices.

And

they'll answer directly.

So that means that the ghosts and the spirits still have a conscience.

Right.

They're conscious.

They're aware of us, too.

Wow.

Which is a whole wild.

That's the one that still blows my mind, but I've experienced it over and over again, and that's the one that's still like, like, I've still, like, I'm just, you know, even thinking about it.

So, is that what our conscience basically is?

It's our spirit.

Because there could be our spirit, yeah.

This is just like a vessel.

Like, this is just matter.

Because, in order for them to answer questions, they have to have

some kind of comprehension or like

separate from the brain.

Wow, that's crazy to think about.

So,

it has a way of answering questions, like normal questions.

I'm not asking the intricate questions, answering questions normally.

Another way like I've kind of thought about it too and put it into perspective is like the idea that there's no such thing as time.

That like time is like something that we've created to kind of organize our life, right?

And that everything that has happened, is happening, and will happening is all happening at the same time.

And it's our perspective, it's our consciousness that allows us to experience this moment, you know?

But under the right circumstances,

I feel like there's been moments, and maybe it's even geologically or that's what I'm still trying to figure out, is like there's moments where there's like it crosses over, like almost like you could see through a veil.

And they think they call it that, like the veil.

Like you can see into these other time periods, these other areas.

A good example, you know, the movie The Conjuring.

Yeah, so we

investigated the original house that the entire movie was based out of.

Oh, yeah.

And it was terrifying.

100% terrifying.

And I did this ritual down in the basement.

That's kind of a thing I do, too.

So the energy was still there.

Oh, yeah, 100%.

And when we interviewed one of the kids, her mom was the one that was possessed from the original conjuring.

Of course, the movie plays it up, but

the true story is creepy enough as it is.

So the way she described it is that her mom got to a point where she realized that she was seeing an older family living in the house.

And at first it freaks you out.

You're like, it's haunted and you lose your mind and it's crazy.

But when she realized that, she kind of made peace with it.

And she was kind of like, we're living here as well as

other generations, other time periods of this family.

And for some reason, she was able to see that.

So in the basement, I did a ritual to open up a portal that I found.

And I went upstairs and I started walking around.

And there's four of us on the show.

Nobody else was in the house.

It was just me.

I walked around for i don't even know exactly how long like we still don't know exactly but i would guess at least an hour and i'm yelling i'm trying to call for everybody can't find everybody can't hear you i walked through the whole house they couldn't hear me like no one was around and all sudden i'm sitting there and i'm kind of like honestly starting to break down like mentally like all right this is this is crazy like i'm kind of losing my mind and then our host main host zach just walks right out and he's like he's like what are you doing I was like, what are you doing?

Like, I've been calling and yelling for you guys.

And like, he came out of a room that I was just in, too.

and they were just they were nowhere to be found and I personally feel like I kind of crossed over into that like what she was talking about how like I'm in another time period or dimension, whatever you want to call it.

I'm not 100% but that's what the experience was like for me personally.

So can you actually let's say

you can see him or feel him right?

So what about like around people like have you ever met someone it could be not in a in a home you just kind of met them and you're like yo there's a ghost behind you or there's no not necessarily like that.

I don't

think I want to.

No, I mean, I've seen ghosts.

Like, I've seen them like apparitions.

I remember there was one, we were filming this place in Arizona.

It was like an old Wild West kind of thing.

And they had reenactors.

They would do reenactments, like shootouts and stuff like that to entertain the people.

And we were getting ready to investigate.

And I remember I went and I rolled all the cameras and I'm walking back to our, what we call our nerve center, like our main base.

And everybody should be out.

You know, it's all just us in there, no one else.

I'm walking up and I see a full-on cowboy just like walk past me.

Like, I'm like, what the hell?

Like,

we're filming.

Like, we're about to start.

Why is there a worker still here?

You know, I actually got pissed off and I went around the corner from where he was coming from and I saw the other guys and I was like, who's this guy?

Like, they're supposed to be cleared out.

I thought we're good to go.

And they're like, what are you talking about?

And I'm like, no, literally, a cowboy.

just walked by and they're like no like no one came by and then i looked and like you could see like where the exit was and everything and there was nobody nobody there But it was so real to me that I didn't even think it was a ghost I literally just thought it was a guy and got pissed like

Why do you think it's hard to pick them up on cameras?

I think it's too I think it's a lot like camera technology too.

That's why we shoot in a lot of different light spectrums So we shoot in a lot of IR light we shoot in ultraviolet light We use thermal cameras we use we even have like lidar mapping systems now that we've gotten some amazing evidence where like the technology is so precise now like you could put it in this room and map out this room,

and you would see everything in there, but then right in the middle, we know it's empty, right?

But you would see some kind of mass or a figure that's like standing in the middle, and you're like, all right,

what is that there?

Why is that there?

That shouldn't be there.

That's like military used stuff, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, it's just starting to come out now.

Like, a lot of construction, like, you know, scanning buildings and things that use that for you.

Nice.

Just so we could see through walls and stuff.

It's in green, right?

No, this is actually like, it's like, it almost looks like a CGI, like, like a 3D rendering of a location.

But we've done that a few places.

We just did it over in Lake Mead.

Lake Mead, Hauna?

Oh, yeah.

We just premiered.

Wait, I didn't know that.

There's bodies in there.

Oh.

Yeah, we just did a two-hour special.

It just kicked off our new season there.

It was called, we called it Lake of Death.

Wow.

So, like, I don't know if you heard about in the news, there was like barrels washing up and they were showing up because the water level is dropping.

So, they're finding barrels with bodies in them.

Really?

And so that piqued our interest.

We're like, all right, we got to get out there.

We got to see what this is about.

Thinking that was it, it was just gonna be an investigation focus on those couple things.

We start interviewing the National Park Service, former rangers, things like that.

Yeah, they start telling us this is nothing new, this has been happening year after year.

Like, they're always finding bodies.

And that over the course of so many years, they released all these files to me that they've found over 3,000 deaths in that park since like the late 80s, early 90s, something like that.

Holy

suicides,

boating accidents, car accidents, plane crashes, like all kinds of stuff.

Whoa.

And we heard that.

We're like, holy shit, like this is a much bigger investigation than we thought it was going to be.

They were even telling us there was a guy that was living off the grid, like just literally, because Lake Mead's huge.

There was a guy living way out in an area.

He had like a ritual tent and he was like worshiping something out there.

And then these fishermen came across him and were like, this guy's a creep and weird.

So they called the Rangers.

The Rangers show up.

He charges at the rangers with a machete and the rangers just shoot him dead right there because he was just running at them wow so we went we investigated there like uh which took it it was a two-hour atv ride to get there just because there was no there's no roads oh it was just totally off we had to actually drive up to mesquite and then take a two-hour atv like off-road all the way down to get to this spot

um and then too while we're there like another thing that just stepped it up even farther was we're talking and once again you know like that's why we made it a two-hour special because at first it was just like

just you basically documented the whole journey.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then,

you know, we were talking to rangers and they were like, oh yeah, we've we see shapeshifters out here all the time too.

And we're like, holy shit.

Like, we didn't realize it was that intense where they would see like these humans like turn into creatures or creatures turn into humans out in the middle of the desert.

Yeah.

Bigfoot, right?

Like, kind of like Bigfoot, any kind of crypto thing, you know, some kind of weird creature.

Shapeshifters.

So like they would see, like, they would just see a person running, right?

And they'd be like, why is that person running?

And they're watching them.

And all of a a sudden, they just shape-shift and they turn into some kind of creature-animal.

That's a real thing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Bigfoot.

Yeah.

What do you mean, Bigfoot?

There's a documentary I'll put you on, but Bigfoot is real, bro.

Yeah, Skinwalkers is another one that they're going by.

What's Skinwalkers?

It's kind of the same thing.

It's like this creature that's just like this

humanoid, half-human, half-animal-type creature that can stand up, but like runs on all fours.

I mean, that's real.

Yeah, I mean, we've captured enough stuff where like, there's something to it.

Like, once again, I don't know 100% exactly what it is,

but on this Lake Mead investigation, we caught twice on two different types of equipment what we actually think is a shapeshifter.

And

it wasn't like

a shadow.

It was an actual.

Oh, yeah, no, and that's the thing, too.

Like, and I think a lot of people don't realize, too, when you see the show, like, it's edited down, so it's a highlight reel, basically.

We're out there for a long time doing this stuff.

So we try to debunk things.

The shapeshifters is like like an actual human you can touch.

Yeah, it looks like a physical it looks like, but is it real or is it just an I mean

I haven't gotten close enough to shake hands with one or anything.

That's crazy.

Yeah, I mean it looks just as physical as you would imagine anything else.

Wow, that's crazy.

So seeing that you've met a lot of

you know, bad energy style, you know, ghosts and spirits and demons, have you ever met any of them that are pleasant?

Yeah.

Just sweet, maybe like sweet people.

Like, just don't want to hurt anybody, like sweet people.

Yeah, like sweet grandma.

It's kind of hard, though.

Sweet people.

Right, totally.

I mean, we tend to focus more on the

crazier, darker stuff.

It's kind of just the route we went.

But we've been to locations actually not too far from here, halfway between here and Reno, there's a place called Goldfield.

There's a place called the Goldfield Hotel, just like massive abandoned building.

And we were in there, and it's a, this place is just, it's evil.

Like, it's 100% evil.

We've caught things lifting lifting off the ground and go flying through the air by itself, Hangara.

Was that the place you said you woke up and you were getting drugged down the hall?

No, that was at the museum here.

Oh, you got a fan.

I'll tell you about that one.

Uh, but yeah,

in uh, in Goldfield, uh, so we've caught like rocks lifting up and go flying.

We call it the guys originally, when they did the documentary, like

15 plus years ago at the beginning of before the show even exists, they called a brick there flying by itself.

And that's kind of what got them, I guess, more notoriety

and kind of blew them up more.

But this place,

there's a story there about a woman who the owner, I guess, like she was like a prostitute and he got her pregnant, but he chained her up to the radiator inside of a room in the hotel and just left her there.

And like would feed her, but like basically kept her prisoner and just kept her a secret.

Like, you know, this can't get out.

And then she had the baby and then he apparently threw the baby down a well.

Like it's a

story.

And

so we went into that room and we brought flowers in to like, you know, kind of be like, that's, we're so sorry this happened.

And you can still see there's still the radiator there at the time.

And we put the flowers down and we start using different devices that basically the easy way to describe how they work is that they use changes in the electromagnetic energy, which is one of the theories that spirits can actually manipulate electromagnetic energy.

And then they could choose words or like use different frequencies to communicate through.

And we started getting, you know, like thank you, flowers like started coming through.

And we, you know, we're like, that's pretty spot on.

You know, like, wow.

You could say anything.

Oh, they were saying thank you, flowers.

Yeah, it was saying thank you, flowers, things like that.

And then we look over and we just see the flowers like, as if someone's like, like, touching them, like almost like petting a cat kind of thing.

And you just see the flowers just start like lightly moving.

That's wild.

And it was, it was beautiful.

Like, we all actually kind of like

had an overwhelming sense of like, like, beauty.

Whoa.

There you go.

Was that a ghost?

What the f?

yo?

No way!

No fucking way!

Bro!

No!

That's never happened.

No way!

All these damn episodes!

Yo!

No fucking way!

That just scared the fuck out of me.

150 episodes, that's never happened.

What was that, anyways?

Bro,

they had a cover on there or something?

That's insane, bro.

Oh, no.

Oh, no.

I'm out right now.

You should have got up.

We're just going to take a break to change your shorts.

I mean, you probably could see on the camera.

Yeah, that's wild.

The camera might have got that.

Definitely.

That's definitely.

No.

Yo, that's crazy.

That's nuts.

Oh, my God.

But that would pretty much confirm your theory about time being just all in one moment.

It's all air and too.

We've had, what's crazy too, we've had moments where like, you know, once it's like, all right, we're going to a location, we'll hear from the owners.

Soon as we booked, like, we like got the contracts and we're like, all right, we're good to go.

We're going to go film there.

They're like, soon as we did that, like, stuff started happening.

They've gotten like our names have been called out in locations before we've gotten there.

So it's almost like this weird, like they know sometimes, like, before it's going to happen, which is what it is.

Wow.

So, time is just made up.

It's not chronological.

It's just, I mean, yeah, I was just

standing.

Yeah, it's just, it's our perspective.

It's our consciousness, our spirit, whatever you want to call it.

Like, it's, it's our personal, like, we're viewing everything from this point right now.

You know what I mean?

So, what happened that night at the museum?

Which museum?

Zach Bagan's Haunted Museum.

Yeah.

So

I've spent a lot of time in that building.

So So you were asleep there.

You wanted to sleep there.

Yep.

We were filming there.

We've filmed there a bunch.

We've done a six-hour live show there.

It actually saved us when the pandemic hit because our show was shut down for like about a month and we're like, what are we going to do?

Like we can't travel.

So Zach pitched it to the network to be like, hey, why don't we do Ghost Adventures quarantine?

And just the four of us will live in campers in the parking lot of the museum.

And we just stayed there for like two weeks and just filmed a whole mini series just focusing on that.

But one of the first times we ever investigated it, we decided we were going to spend the night in there.

This was like early on.

Zach just got it, just started setting it up.

And

I'm sleeping in the front room, which first of all, it took forever to fall asleep.

It was the hardest place to ever just get comfortable and sleep.

And I was on like a camping cot, you know, like one of those folding out little camp cots.

And I'm laying in there, finally fall asleep.

I get woken up in the middle of the night at some point.

And I just woke up feeling like, because it's like a cloth thing, and I feel like something hitting underneath of it.

And there's no space, like, it's pretty small, but I feel something hit my feet, and I kind of like jump up.

I'm like, what was that?

Like, all right.

And I'm looking around, and I see, like, I could see that we have cameras filming and sleeping, and I could see a camera, and I could see there's like, it's pitch black, but there's a little bit of ambient light from the camera, and I just see the shadow, like, just flash past it.

And I was like, I was like, all right, what was that?

So I start yelling for the guys.

Like, I was like, hey, is anyone awake?

Like, just yelling to be like, something just happened.

Mm-hmm.

Eventually, like, it took some time, but they wake up.

They start coming in one by one.

They're like, what's going on?

I was like, I don't know.

Like, something hit my bed.

I woke up.

I saw a dark shadow go by.

And then I looked down and I realized, like, I noticed I almost tripped.

There was like a rug, and the rug was all bundled up.

And I looked down and I realized at that moment that the cot I was on was actually drug out into the hallway a little bit.

Like I was in a room, like kind of like, it was like a big entryway, but like I was kind of in the room, but like, and I realized when I got up, like it was actually drug in and it was like partially in the entrance way, like out into the next part.

And you could tell that it was dragged because like the carpet was all bundled up under it.

Like it was just like pulled and it pushed up all the carpet.

And I was just like, I can't explain that.

And we have a camera on me the whole time.

So you see, like no one's there, no one's doing anything.

And you didn't feel it?

Well, I don't know if it was what I felt when I felt something bumpy feet like that.

So I don't know if that was it or not.

Like it makes sense that it would have been.

But yeah, that was crazy.

I was just going to say like that when like when like something moves and there's nothing in there, it's totally scary.

Like I've had, I've been dragged backwards.

What do you mean?

So we were filming in this place in Prescott, Arizona.

It was like an old saloon like Wild West.

I don't know, there's something about these Wild West towns that are just off the hook.

And they were saying that this evil entity resided in the basement and there was a crawl space.

And they were like, that's where it comes from.

There was workers that would go down there terrified to go to work they want to deal with it so I get sent in it was my you know kind of picked a short straw to like I was going to go into this crawl space by myself and investigate it so I'm crawling and I'm a pretty big guy and I'm on my belly like it's only like this deep you know and I'm on my belly crawling I have a camera in my hand like going through nothing's really happening I start being like all right I'm gonna start antagonizing like this is like some kind of bully spirit thing messing with these people so I'm gonna start messing with it try to get it to come out.

So I started antagonizing, calling it out, and all of a sudden something grabs my leg, and there's nothing there.

And literally, you can see me.

I have the camera like this, kind of shooting back behind me.

I drop the camera and I actually get pulled backwards in the crawl space, a good three or four feet.

And you can see on camera, I get pulled away from the camera.

There's nothing behind me at all.

And I lose it.

I freak out.

But I'm in a crawl space.

So I can't just like get up and run away.

But they can do anything they want to.

I think so.

I think, you know, I think, i don't know i don't know if it's like or is that a different entity it could be

that's thing i don't know exactly what it is it could have been a different entity uh it could also be like i mean it sounds like kind of weird but like i don't know if you ever seen that movie ghost like with what was it patrick swayed yeah with patrick

and there's like a whole thing where like he like he almost like when he first is like a ghost and he's trying to communicate with like people he knows and he can at first but he almost like he has to learn how to how to do it kind of so i don't know if like some spirits are better at it than others or some spirits have like more experience, more gained more power, more abilities to be able to interact with our world.

But yeah, that's just another one where, like I said, when something moves and it shouldn't,

and that was definitely probably one of my top terrifying moments for sure.

What about locations?

What places really spooked you?

Yeah, I mean, this last of the Lake Mead special we just did was pretty scary.

And it was kind of scary in a way where we didn't expect it.

What about the house on...

There was a house up the street that that was calling it Super Haunted, bro.

It was right there on a sure it's not the Zach Bagans house,

is it?

The Zach Bagans Museum, it was on this view in here, it's on Pecos, it was like the most hunted museum.

It's on Pecos, we're on Pecos, right?

Yeah, yeah, they actually tore it down, but okay.

I think

I remember, I think I knew what you're talking about.

You've heard of it, though, right?

Yeah, I think, I think they might have because I joined a second

that they like they tore down, yeah.

I think they might have done it.

We've we've actually done that.

Uh, we even oh, for real, yeah, like we uh destroyed a whole home, yeah, just because it was was too much, it was too intense, yeah.

Uh, actually,

yeah, we we did a documentary uh called Demon House, uh, and we focused, it was this house in Gary, Indiana, that uh, it broke the news, it was like known for like being terribly haunted, uh, and not even just haunted, but like evil.

Like, this uh woman and her family, her kids were getting affected.

But what made this one stand out differently, there's so many credible sources, like police officers, the chief of police, social workers, all these things.

They started investigating the family family because the kids were showing up like messed up.

So they're like, we got to investigate this family.

And then they started experiencing, they like experienced a kid walk backwards up a wall and like all kinds of crazy.

So

if you saw it, so I remember, like, I remember seeing the news and be like, man, that's crazy.

And then I think I was flying out to investigation.

And as soon as I landed, Zach was already texting me.

He's like, have you seen this?

And I was like, yeah, and then we were like talking.

He's like, I'm going to buy that house.

So he tracked down the owner

and bought that house in gary indiana and we spent like a few years kind of going to this house like in between film and the regular show

and you know it was just pure evil like i think that was probably one of the most like just evil like there's no good not just like a human spirit that's just like mischievous or like like this was just so i don't know what it is but something was there it was pure evil we found uh remnants of rituals that we think were done in the basement.

So we don't know if someone went in there and like opened something up up that like, that brought it in.

But it was bad.

Everybody that stepped into that house, you know, even like, you know, eventually we like set up Wi-Fi.

The Wi-Fi guy would come to install it.

He would have problems.

He would leave, get into a car accident or something.

Or no, I don't think, was he the car?

I don't know.

The chief of police would slip on ice after he left.

Like it was just every person that would come into that house, even innocently, even not even like, you know, to talk to us about it.

Like, you know, from like...

Just there to do the lawn.

Right.

Just to do

waits.

And then they would be calling us a little bit later, like, hey, like, this just happened to me.

We're like, yeah, that's insane.

Wow, so these guys got rid of the whole house.

Yeah, and then

built this property.

Yeah, it got to a point where.

Can you even build on that still, or it has to be a vacant lot?

Right, well, that's the thing.

That's what's kind of interesting is like, and I think that's part of like, I guess, the bigger experiment is, like, does it stay?

Does it linger?

Does it move somewhere else?

Or does it, is it attached to the physical object?

I do know that, like, there's a thing called the stone tape theory, which is like organic surfaces like wood,

any kind of matter, like rocks, things like that, they have a memory.

And this was actually proven scientifically through a scientist in Japan that would take water samples and freeze them.

So you would take water from like the mountains, like beautiful spring water, and you would freeze it.

It would form these beautiful crystals.

And then he would take like city water out of the sewer and freeze that, and it would be like malfigured and disfigured and not symmetrical.

And then he would project positive energy to

energy basically.

Exactly.

And he would project positive energy to the sewer water and then he would refreeze it.

And then now it's beautiful crystals.

Whoa.

And then he would take like the beautiful spring water that previously made beautiful crystals and be like, I hate you.

And like project negative energy to it.

And then when he would freeze that and look at it, it would be all disfigured.

So he basically proved that like energy, positive and negative, can actually affect organic matter on a molecular level.

Wow.

They say with plants, when there's negative people around plants, it kills them.

Yeah, for sure.

Even arguing.

So it makes sense that if something is just evil or there's just

something just pure evil in a spot, it's going to literally soak into the world.

So Jay, how do you sleep at night?

Do you have nightmares?

It's tough, yeah.

Like, when was the last time you actually slept?

Eight hours?

I mean, I could probably check my stats.

You know, I've been trying to track and kind of actually pay attention to it, but like, not much, really.

For real?

Like, yeah.

So you're carrying a lot of energy around.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I've walked into actually here in town, I went to like some one of the crystal shops one day.

I told you to get out.

And somebody was like, she's like, whoa.

And I'm like, what?

And she's like, you got a lot around you.

And I was like, okay.

And she didn't know who I was at first either.

So it wasn't just like, oh, you're Jay from Ghost Adventures.

So you don't sleep at night.

I mean, I do.

I do.

I think I don't sleep well necessarily.

Why you think Texas?

Hey, Jay, wake up.

No, I think, I don't know.

I mean, it could honestly be a mixture of PTSD too, because we've been through so many, like, we've done well over 300 investigations.

I mean, that's just with the regular show.

Like,

not counting spin-offs and specials, things like that.

What's your ultimate goal with this?

Because it seems like you're going to, like, you feel like you're going to get hurt doing this at some point.

Yeah, I have been.

I've broken a rib on an investigation.

I'm literally just overcoming.

You can see I got an ankle brace on.

I dislocated my ankle.

I've busted up my back one time.

And two, we do this in the dark.

So you're going to fall down.

I was coming out of a basement once and I pushed a storm door up and I slipped and it fell in my hand and my head went through the door.

Oh my gosh.

So there's definitely many ways to get hurt.

So

what's the goal with all?

What are you trying to accomplish or prove

being this

the ghost hunter?

Because

eventually you're going to meet your match.

Right?

I mean, I think that all the time.

Like, there's a part of me, like, but I think it's...

You're going to meet the Thanos of demons.

Right, yeah.

Exactly.

And I think, like, I don't know, I feel like, one, you know, maybe it's a bit of craziness, but like, I think it's that passion and desire to like want to know what happens.

Like, you know, and I think a lot of people don't realize, like, it's not just a TV show.

Like, this is our lives.

We do this.

Like, a lot of TV shows will film, you know, for a few months and then they take the rest of the year off.

Like, we shoot every other week non-stop since like i've been with it for 13 years wow so you wanted to know what happens right yeah i think that everybody knows yeah yeah but then like what what what happens once you find out what happened dude you does it what if the day you find out what happens is like right your story ends right yeah so do you get to tell us a story like what are you trying to leave like a legacy or just kind of enlighten us on about life and death or yeah i think i don't know it's weird because i hear from like a lot of fans that they'll say like you know like our show's giving them comfort, even though, even though it scares them, but like just knowing like there's, knowing there's something more than just this, I think gives a lot of people comfort for sure and brings people together in a way.

You know, and I think a lot of people are looking for that and, you know, don't have that in their day-to-day lives.

So like, I feel like that's the good side of what we do.

Yeah.

You know, and I think it is just like a natural curiosity.

You know, it's like, what is it?

And like, we've been doing it for so long.

And I've had moments where I'm like, all right, I've seen things lift off the ground.

I've been scratched.

I've had scratches up here on me and actually see them manifest.

I've seen spirits.

I've heard spirits.

I've seen exorcisms, possessions, all kinds of things.

So I'm always like, what else could there be?

Like, what else?

And then we'll go and do an investigation.

And I'm just like, you know, like Lake Mead.

Like, all right.

We're going out here, just another investigation.

We call it shapeshifters.

Like, just my mind just is constantly keeps being blown.

And, you know, the four of us, we're still 100% into it.

We love it.

It's like, it's our life.

It's our passion.

Yeah.

So I think it's like, it's weird.

Like, and it's a rush, honestly.

I personally, I could never go skydiving.

Like, the idea of skydiving terrorized me.

But, like, but a demon don't.

Skydiving is not so scary, but

there's that, I get it.

I get why people would like skydiving.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Because there is that adrenaline rush.

And it's the same thing with investigating, you know, spirits.

Like, there are you.

Are you prepared for when

you have to experience an exorcism yourself?

Well, do you feel like you're strong enough to sustain that?

Like, are you, are you, do you know at some point it's going to happen?

I mean, I like to think so, because, I mean, I have had different experiences.

I've had moments where I felt like there's things that are, like, I don't know,

just to like, you know, grasping their claws in you a little bit.

Not fully got you, but like, you could tell like they're trying to hold on.

And I've been able to shake it.

And I think that is just from the experience of doing what we do over and over again and witnessing it with other people and kind of finding what works for me and just sticking with that.

Yeah.

Have you guys ever thought about bringing like a psychic with you to communicate?

Yeah, and we've done that a few times we've had psychics i think psychics are hit or miss uh we have a few ones that we've worked with that have been great um i think for me and i know some personal friends of mine that were psychics that have like called me in the middle of the night and be like what's going on are you all right and it was just like something crazy was happening and so like i don't know i'm hit or miss like i think they have to like kind of prove themselves in a way which you know is still like the skeptic part of me which is even when we investigate like i still approach it skeptically um but yeah i do believe and I've experienced, you know, different things where they've said things where I'm like, all right, there's no way they could possibly know that.

Right.

What was that person you were telling me about that could predict

a seer?

A seer.

A seer, yeah.

Yeah, you guys ever brought a seer on?

Uh, I don't think anyone that like necessarily like referenced themselves as a seer, but we've had people that like kind of would like say almost like

I don't know.

Because these weird, twisted, like, almost like a riddle, like kind of thing.

I've had one cleanse, I had one cleanse my house, and she explained to me that you you have to cleanse the corners right because that's where they lie that's what they store true right yeah so as she was cleansing the corners she had nothing in in her hand but there was a sound a screeching sound she was using bleach okay all right bleach is a cleansing right bleaching water or something like that but there was like a screeching sound that happened but i guess she said the the whatever was in there was neutral okay it wasn't it was lost or something like that but it was like a screeching sound, almost like a scratching of the walls, bro.

It was so creepy.

It was just me and me and her there.

And I was standing right next to her.

So she didn't do it.

She had nothing in her hand, but it was a sound.

And she said it left.

Whatever it was, but she said it wasn't, it wasn't like it was an indifferent.

She called it an indifferent sound.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, we've witnessed that like visually.

I've seen that like during exorcisms, like watching them happen.

And there's almost like a moment where you could see whatever was affecting them, like the negative energy, like like actually leave their body.

And like, like I said, it's like an eye change, like something in their eyes or demeanor.

And like, they almost just like, kind of like a story I told earlier about my friend, like, there's just a point where like all of a sudden it's gone, and you just like, you go limp, and you're just like,

kind of like, what just happened to me?

kind of thing.

Have you ever had sleep paralysis?

Yeah, yeah, I've experienced that a few times.

What is that?

Because I'm here.

I hear so many different stories.

For me, I got it once.

I couldn't move, but my eyes were open.

Okay.

And some guy was choking me out like a shadow person.

I get it.

I've got it often.

I don't even know how many times I can count, but it's

normal.

Not normal, but when it happens, I'm like, oh, shit.

Yeah, I feel like there is

it.

There is a, like, I guess...

Part of it is there is an actual explanation.

Like, so when we sleep, our bodies actually release a chemical that paralyzes us.

It basically stops us from acting out our dreams,

which actually is a mental condition of like, there are people out there, it's very rare, but like, there's people that don't release that chemical

and then they'll like sleepwalk or like there was a case where a guy actually like he like went to bed, woke up the next morning, man, he had dreams that he was deer hunting and he woke up and his wife was dead with an arrow through her.

Whoa.

Yeah, so like so it is a natural thing that our brain does to like stop us from trying to act out our dreams and it will paralyze you.

So like there's a belief that like, oh, maybe you just happen to kind of wake up.

with that chemical in you and like you're paralyzed, but you're awake.

But then what's interesting is like what you were saying is that that happens but then there's like a shadow figure or like there's other physical manifestations uh i had that a similar thing where i spent the entire night locked in a jail cell by myself in an old abandoned prison uh like down actually it wasn't even a prison it was like this mansion but they had like a prison under the basement it was weird

down in the basement like these cells and i spent the night down there by myself and eventually it was just like all right i'm in a room so i tried to investigate i tried to do things i got to a point where i was like all right i'm just in here until the other guys are done and they come and lock me out, you know.

And so I ended up falling asleep in there.

And I remember I woke up and it was the weirdest thing because we were filming it too.

So like seeing myself.

And like, I guess at some point, I like take my shoes off and I'm not even aware of it.

And like, I don't sleepwalk.

I don't do any of that.

But then I remember being like waking up paralyzed and I'm seeing something.

And all of a sudden, like, I'm full awake.

And then I saw, I describe it as a gray alien, honestly.

Like, I saw like a gray alien standing above me.

And

I kind of freaked out and it was gone.

Wow.

Yeah, I do.

I believe.

I don't know.

Like my personal theory about it is like, and same thing, like who knows?

Like it could be anything, you know, like, but what I think of gray aliens is actually us from the future.

Because if you think about it from an anatomical kind of sense, you know, like from evolution, if you look at like, you know, the evolution of the human species, you know, our jaws were bigger and our heads were smaller, right?

So if you start fast-forwarding that evolution, our jaws are going bigger.

That's why our wisdom teeth messes up is because actually our jaws are shrinking inward like this.

So that's like on the edge of an evolutionary step that goes.

There's some kids now that are being born without wisdom teeth exactly evolving.

So it's like our jaws are moving this way and our heads are getting bigger.

Our brains are getting more evolved.

So like fast forward that, we're going to have the little chin, the big head, kind of like a gray alien look, right?

I like that there.

But now think of this.

What does it look like?

So if in the future there's some kind of catastrophe, which everyone talks about one day it's gonna happen whether it's an asteroid or fire flood like anything whatever it is there's gonna be something that's gonna force the human civilization to go underground

What's gonna happen evolutionary if humans go underground?

It's gonna be dark.

They're gonna lose pigmentation in their skin.

They're gonna turn gray.

They're gonna be washed out their eyes are gonna have to get bigger to be able to see in darker light.

Like so it basically in my point of view, that's showing that we could easily evolve into like the typical gray alien.

Wow.

I like that theory, man.

Jay, I've learned a lot about ghosts from you, man.

That was a great episode.

I think we caught a ghost.

We might have to watch it.

Yeah, we're going to have to watch it.

We're going to see something in there, man.

Man, any closing comments from people watching?

I mean, dang, this is fun.

That was awesome.

You know, and like, we keep doing it.

We have new episodes right now coming on Discovery every Wednesday night.

And, you know, we do it.

So you guys don't have to, I guess.

Like, we do some crazy stuff.

I'm not going to Lake Mead, bro.

Yeah.

No, I mean, I've already just skied there, so it's not.

I mean, oh, yeah.

Well, during the day, you're fine.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's weird, like

you go out there at night.

Like, there's a

old railroad tunnels, and you go hiking there.

And I remember I was there during the day.

At one point, I went after the film, and I went with some friends.

I was like, you got to check this place out.

And the sun started going down, and they were all like, whoa, like, what is with this place?

Like, yeah, man, this is where we call it the shapeshifter.

Wow.

I got to even tell anybody ahead of time.

Like, it was afterwards, you know?

But they all picked up on it.

Like, as soon as the sun starts going down, it changes the vibe.

Wow, that's sick.

Wayne,

you can follow me on Instagram at GhostAdventures

Digital Social Hour.

Thanks for tuning in, guys.

See you next time.

Peace.