James Fox: Best UFO Photo? James Fox on Calvine & Cover-Ups | DSH #1531

All together, they go back, UFO gone, Travis gone. They look for him for a couple hours first, gone.
He's just gone.

And so they go out into town, they tell the authorities what happened, and they were like, You guys are all under arrest for homicide. Nobody believed him, obviously.

They're like, We'll take lie detector tests, you know. So it makes world news.
I mean, everybody's talking about because so many witnesses, and they're just sticking to their story.

All right, guys, got James Fox here. We're going to talk UFOs.
He has the best photograph of a UFO captured. We'll throw it up on the screen, right? Yeah, for sure.

You know, it's one thing when you've got, you know, there's so many things circulate online, right?

And you could see something that looks like maybe perhaps it was, you know, AI generated or something.

But we did a deep dive into a photograph that, quite honestly, I'd been chasing down for over 25 years because I'd heard about it through a gentleman, Nick Pope, who investigated UFOs in an official capacity for the Ministry of Defense of England.

So I was like, what's the best case that you ever investigated? He's like, well, we buried it, but it happened in 1990 in Scotland. And so I'd heard about this photo.

And he's like, it's broad daylight. There were points of reference.
I mean, there was a military jet circling around it. And he's like, it was probably the best photograph ever.

Five prints, two witnesses, broad daylight. So I've been quietly chasing this story for a long time because I never want to let anything of that, you know, that potential big story,

you know, get buried. I keep my sights on it.
But a gentleman named David Clark in England found it.

It's a long story and I won't bore your audience with the details, but I, so that's why we have that photograph today. But I did a deep dive in my film, The Program,

about, you know, went to the location. I talked to the RAF press officer, Craig Lindsay, I talked to the lead investigator.
I interviewed the Ministry of Defense guy, Nick Pope,

who talks about about it at the time back in 1990.

And so I wanted to talk a little bit about it today because it's considered the best photograph ever taken of a UFO. Wow.
We'll throw it up on the screen for guys watching on video.

And if you're on audio, we'll have a link below. You could click to see it, right? Yeah, you know, people always go, well, man, if UFO is real, there'd be a...
There'd be photographic evidence.

I'm like, well, there is. The government has made a big effort to squash the really good photos, but I can give you examples of photos over the decades.

But I consider that to be the best one. And that's the interesting thing to me that governments across the world are suppressing this stuff.
So they all agree that they don't want this out there.

Here's the problem. You know, and I ask your audience, just like, let's just forget, let's just suspend judgment on the UAP topic and just imagine for a moment that they're real.

Whether you believe they're real or you don't believe they're real, let's just say they're real. Okay.
So you have objects of unknown origin.

exhibiting a technology that's light years advanced from our fastest jets. And this has been going on since the 30s, 40s you know and then some would say historically millennia

they fly rings around our fastest jets they display a propulsion that is just like not jet a fuel they have no wings no tail no visible means of propulsion no sound barrier no air disturbance no noise

we don't know who they are where they come from or what they want let's just assume that's true

They're whizzing around our airspace globally with impunity. Some say they're interacting with nuclear facilities and all that sort of stuff.

That's not the type of information, no matter what government you're from, no matter what country you're from, that they want to generally disclose to the general public for obvious reasons. Because

you're admitting that the phenomenon is real. It's nuts and bolts.
There's also a psychic element to it. You don't know who it is.
You don't know origins and intent.

And there's just really nothing in it for a military force to disclose that nature of information to the general public because you're exposing what you by exposing what you know, you're exposing also what you don't know and our vulnerabilities.

And that is primarily the biggest reason for secrecy. Yeah.
And you've been studying this for many years now, right? Forever. And that's a mighty long time.
Yeah. Yeah.

I'm 57 and I started when I was 25. Were you sold initially or did you need to?

Oh, my God. No.
It was so funny, actually. That's a great question.
So I had a really good friend in high school. His name is Renee Harris.
And when we graduated, we were 18.

We flew to Europe. We bought a car in London.
We like headed down south to Portugal. I mean, we were like best friends.
We had just a fantastic time, just goofed off and doing odd stuff.

And when I got, and actually, he flew back early because he wasn't cut out for the international thing. He was like, man, I'm always hungry.
He's like, these are such small portions over here.

This is ridiculous. Anyway, so I stayed on for like another year or so.

And when I came back to the States, we reconnected and he started talking about UFOs and alien spaceships that crashed at Roswell. And I'm not kidding you, man.

I looked at, I looked at him and I thought to myself, I'm going to have to cut this guy loose. And I lost one of my best friends.
It's really sad. He's clearly lost his mind.
And so I approached it.

I came into it, not believing it at all.

And I was going to quickly disprove it. And then I scratched the surface.

Here I am 30 plus years later. Wow.
Like, holy shit. This is a big story.
So Roswell was the first one you really took a deep dive into? Yeah, I actually went to Roswell for the 50th anniversary.

I met with a lot of the first-hand witnesses.

I met with Jesse Marcel Jr., who's the son of the intelligence officer, Jesse Marcel, the first military officer at the debris field who handled the debris. He personally held it in his hands.

I knew him. I was friends with him.
You know, I met with a lot of the people. And, you know, one of the things that people don't realize about Roswell, because they go, oh, an alien spaceship craft.

Come on, man. Just, you know, go sell crazy somewhere somewhere else.
I'm like, well, if you look into it, they're the ones that announced it to the world.

The 509th Bomb Squadron at the time was the only bomb squadron in the world exclusively responsible for the deployment of atomic weapons. The Enola Gay was based there.

They were an elite group of military folks. So for them to mistake like a flying saucer for like a weather balloon, which is later what they ended up saying happened.
Oh, terribly sorry.

What we initially thought was a flying saucer turned out to be a weather balloon.

Yeah, that just doesn't make any sense.

And then almost everybody that was involved in the cover-up and the photographic evidence, if you look at the press conference in July of 1947 with General Roger Ramey, Colonel DuPose, and Jesse Marcel, intelligence officer Jesse Marcel, two out of the three came clean on camera and said that

the initial story was true.

That's not, we were, we were shut down. Wow.
Do you think some technology was recovered from that one? No question. No question.
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We've had that for a while, man.

Yeah, you know, I interviewed a colonel. His name is Philip Corso,

and I interviewed him. He came forward in 1997.
He died like a year or two later.

And he,

I have to start off with this, is that I don't know this to be true. Obviously, I wasn't there.

I wasn't in the labs, but according to him, and some say he's controversial because there were some discrepancies in his book.

But according to him, and a lot of people are now believing this this is true, super tenacity fibers,

lasers, maybe it helped advance

microchips, things of this nature. But he said that, this is what he told me.
And again, I don't know this to be fact, but he said that that was seeded unknowingly into various companies, right?

Like the military industrial complex kind of seeded this out. They're like, hey, what's this? Take a look at this.

Could have been Russian, could have been something else.

They didn't say, but it was like, he said it looked like

fiber optics looked like what turned out to be fiber optics looks like fishing line is what they found or felt like fishing line back in 47.

And he said there were no provisions on the craft that he goes,

we were puzzled. Like there was no provisions.
The entities that were recovered, again, this is according to him, and I heard it from him to me, and he saw them. They

had large heads. They had the almond-shaped eyes.
They were spindly legs and arms, about three and a half feet tall.

No provisions, no reproductive organs, slits for mouths.

That's what he said. And he saw them.

Yeah, because they communicate through telepathy, right? That's exactly right. Yeah.
Dang, that is crazy. Yeah.
That is so nuts to me. It's like a movie almost.
I know, I know.

And I don't expect, if anyone hasn't looked into it, I wouldn't expect them to believe it because I certainly didn't. Yeah.
And it took me a long time.

And now I've actually known more than anything else. I mean, I did a film called The Program recently that just dropped.
But I also did a film called The Phenomenon.

And then after the Phenomenon, which really was one of the first UFO documentaries to really transcend

into

outside of the UFO community and into a more mainstream audience. I mean, I interviewed a...

former Senate Majority Leader, Harry Reid, who started the Secret Pentagon UFO program that was on the front page of the New York Times in 2017. Airport's named after him, right? Yes, exactly.

And so I met with him. I was the only one to meet with him and get him on camera before he was diagnosed with cancer.
Wow. It's an incredible interview.
And

he admitted,

I was like, so you're suggesting that the evidence that was on the front page of the New York Times is there's a lot more that hasn't seen the light of day. And he goes,

Long pause. And I've heard, this is coming from former Senate majority leader.
I mean, he was a really powerful man. He goes, most of the evidence hasn't seen the light of day.

Yeah.

And that made news because it was coming from, I mean, he's a household name. Yeah.
You know, but in any case, after I did that, I did a film called Moment of Contact.

And it's free streaming on YouTube movies.

And Moment of Contact covered a UFO, an alleged UFO crash that took place in Vargina, Brazil in 1996.

And it's funny because when I first heard about that alleged case, I was making my second UFO doc called Out of the Blue with

a British reporter named Tim Coleman. And Tim,

every time I started a new project, I started to do broad strokes of concepts of what I want to cover, cases I want to go investigate.

And we were just exploring on the board. And my friend Tim Coleman, and I'll remind your audience, I was making my second UFO documentary at the time.

And he said, oh, mate, bloody hell, have you heard about this case in England? I mean, sorry, in Brazil, it's like this UFO crash and these live aliens are walking through the town.

And I thought, I picked the wrong partner. This guy's lost his mind.
I looked at him and I said, I'm not going to waste one second on that case. And I didn't.
And he was quite cross with me.

Like, I refused to even look at any of the literature, any of the reporting. Nothing.
I was like, I'm not selling crazy out there. No, thank you.
So, like,

I did, I did out of the blue. Then I did another film, which is a two-hour special for history channel called I Know What I Saw

and then I was invited to Brazil in like 2010 maybe 2011

and

I get a phone. I'm sorry, my yeah, I get a phone call from this guy named Jeff Sigansky.

He used to run Sony Pictures, a very respectful guy, and he quietly and discreetly behind the scenes had always helped me get distribution for my movies, which at the time, you know, UFOs were really not that, you know, respected at all.

It was like a conspiracy at the time, time, right? Totally. And so he, but he was like, dude, I can't have my name on this, but I'm going to help you behind the scenes.

So anyway, so he, so I had a lot of respect for him and he was also very influential in my process, right? So I wasn't going to say anything rude to him.

So he calls me and he's like, he's like, oh, I heard you're going to Brazil. And I said, yeah.
And he goes, you got to look into that Virginia case with the UFO crash. And I went, oh, God.

Shit, not this guy. This guy's fucking lost his Marbles too.
Like I, so I said,

yeah, okay, Jeff. Yeah, sure.
I'll look into that. For sure.
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Click.
Yeah, that's not going to happen.

So I arrive in Brazil with zero intention of looking into a case which I considered to be absolute garbage, like a complete and utter waste of my time.

I get there, and I'm in a place called Peroibi. And it's, it's, it's a, it's kind of, I think it's in the south.
And anyway, off, it's right on the coast.

And, and right off the coast is this island that has this snake. And it's the only island in the world that has this snake, and its venom is very poisonous and very valuable.

And so we were sitting at a cafe.

You know, I just arrived, and I was with a group of individuals, and one of them was this guy who's a nuclear physicist, UFO researcher, who's the grandfather of Roswell. His name is Stanton Friedman.

He passed a few years ago, but he was the most respected scientist that was pushing. really hard for further transparency on UFOs.
I had tremendous respect for him. He's not an idiot.

Anyone can look him up, Stanton Friedman. He's a nuclear physicist.

And we're all calming on this island, and the poachers apparently would go out to this island and the snakes would drop out of the trees and kill.

They said it's littered with like dead poachers on this island. Some people would make their way back with the point with the poison, I guess.

We're talking about that. And then the topic of the death of a military officer involved in capturing one of the

alleged creatures in 1996 in Vargina, Brazil. And I was like, oh, God, here we go.
And

Stanton Friedman goes, oh, yeah, James, you haven't heard about that case? I said, well, I've heard about it. He goes, oh, yeah, that's largely considered to be the Roswell of Brazil.
And I was like,

God, Stanton Friedman is so respectable. He's a physicist.
He was like, yeah, I was around in Brazil. Coincidentally, when it happened, I met a lot of the witnesses.
Very compelling.

You should look into it. Wow.
So very reluctantly, I started looking into it.

Got a couple years in i hope you guys are enjoying the show please don't forget to like and subscribe it helps the show a lot with the algorithm thank you

multiple trips back and forth i was like holy shit this probably happened wow and so here i am 15 16 years later i made a documentary on it and and i remember joe rogan heard about it because And Joe Rogan, I don't think, was inviting me back on his show because he was like, I'm not going to be selling crazy on this thing.

But then a couple of the guests were like, look, Joe, I know, like, you should look at it, you know, because I tell people, like,

don't let me tell you, because I forget about me, right?

Just listen to the witnesses, listen to the people that we meet with that all had to bend over backwards to get to come forward. And you draw your own conclusions.

And everybody who's seen it goes, holy shit, this probably happened, including Rogan. So Rogan wouldn't even look at the movie until it was told on a couple of people.

And I don't blame him because I had the same reaction. Yeah.
So anyway, so yeah,

I'm kind of known for that case of this. Wow,

it's ongoing. I just got back a little while ago, and I'm going to do an updated version of Moment of Contact that'll be released for the 30th anniversary.
I'll check that one out.

Yeah, I never know what to believe with the alien stuff on social media because I feel like there's a lot of misdirection and distractions, you know. Oh, absolutely.

You got to sift through the garbage. And I hate to say this, but the vast majority, unfortunately, is.

Sometimes I wonder if it was deliberate. And in fact,

there was a very compelling sighting back in 1952 over Washington, D.C., and it took place over two consecutive weekends in July. Anybody can Google it.
It was the flyover of Washington with UFOs.

It was on every newspaper headline. And

it was so compelling. They scrambled military jets to intercept it.
These things flew rings around the jets. I mean, it was...
It's a fascinating case.

It was so compelling and so in our face that they had to have a press conference. Wow.
And they had a press conference with General John Sanford.

And he got up and basically confessed in 1952 that, yeah, you know,

I mean, it's the press conference. Look it up.
John Stanford, John, General John Sanford, 1952, UFOs over Washington, D.C.

And basically he was like, yeah, you know,

extraordinary people are seeing pretty extraordinary things and we, and it's not us. And it was a pretty big disclosure back in 1952.
So

the Air Force didn't know what to do with the problem, so they convened a panel panel in early 1953 called the, I think it was the Roberson panel.

And they got together a panel of very prominent scientists and like how to deal with the problem and ultimately came back to the Air Force with a report.

It was headed by the CIA and they said, well, you know, because the Air Force is like, this is a problem. They don't think about, they don't look at it from the perspective of.

you know, the philosophical implications of, wow, there might be indications that we're not alone. To them, there's unknown shit in the airspace that they don't have control over.

It's flying rings around our fastest jets. That's a problem.
And it's flying over the White House, right?

So this panel came back and the recommendation they made was, look, you know, we can't control the phenomenon, but what we could do is we can shift policy and basically say, you know, people are nuts, just ridicule.

And that policy of ridicule was adopted in 1953 by this panel. And it was the most effective.

I got to tip my hat to the Air Force. It was a very effective campaign.
And And so that is why that ridicule was so strong. In fact,

I was laughed at and made fun of for a very long time, like decades.

And just recently, you know, we've had three congressional hearings in the last couple of years.

We had the New York Times reporting on a secret Pentagon UFO program.

You had people that were involved with the program, like Lou Elizondo coming forward, going on national TV around the world, actually, saying, yeah, the phenomenon is real.

They released tapes from Air Force cockpits, Navy cockpits. And I had members of my family from all around

the world that were ridiculing the laughing friends, family members, and they were like, holy shit, James, you're not nuts. It looks like there is something to this.
Like, whoa, you know?

Yeah, must feel liberating for you.

The second congressional hearing that's dealt with David Grush, and it was on crash retrieval.

Now, remind your audience that I had just done a documentary prior to any of those congressional hearings on a crash retrieval case involving the Americans that took place in Brazil in 1996.

And I'm watching a high-level intelligence officer testifying to a bipartisan group of lawmakers in real time, I was watching it, about a crash retrieval program that we have bodies in our possession, hardware, and spaceships of non-human intelligence to a bipartisan group of lawmakers under oath.

Okay.

So I'm watching this. I never thought on a hundred, I never thought in my own lifetime I would see this.

And I sat there, and it was the the only time my son was like nine at the time, but I completely ignored my son was trying to play with me. And I was like, I looked at him and I said, not now.

I got to, you know, and I was glued watching the live thing. And I had tears pouring down my face for the entire time.
Wow. Because I've been laughed at, ridiculed, and made fun of for so long.

And there it was, right before the whole world to see, you know, and the, and, you know, you can't, like, the repercussions of testifying under oath to a bipartisan group.

I'm like, why in hell would he do that? Why? There's nothing for him to gain. Nothing.

And he's saying I provided all the details needed to verify my claims to the ICIG, the intelligence community inspector general, Thomas Mondheim, all the details,

locations, street addresses, names of the organizations, where the hardware is, where the bodies are. He provided all that

to Thomas Mondheim.

So nothing happened. Well,

there's a lot of stuff happening. They just had another congressional hearing that I attended just the end of last year.
And there's talks of other ones.

And now David Grush is working with members of Congress. He just got into a skiff a couple of weeks ago.

So

it's really funny, actually, because

tell your audience. So David Grush goes on Joe Rogan right after the congressional hearings.
I don't know, a couple of months after the congressional hearings. Excuse me.
And

he's like, they tried to pass legislation and they passed it in the Senate and then the House shot it down. And the legislation is essentially

law is that they have to,

the companies that have these materials have to.

And

if there's nothing to see, just pass the legislation. We'll find out what happened.
We'll see what happens. The Senate passed it.

They talked about it on the floor of the Senate, both the Senate Majority Leader,

I'll think of his name in a second, but

Charles Chuck Schumer. Chuck Schumer talked about it on the Democratic side.
Senator Mike Rounds talked about it on the Republican side to pass this legislation, and it was shot down in the House.

And it was shot down in the House primarily by these two guys, Mike Turner and another gentleman.

But basically, if you look at where they're from, it's like, you know, Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio is in their district, and Raytheon, like all these like contractors for the, you know, and it's like, and they're like, oh, yeah, there's, that's, there's been rumors for years and this other thing.

And then they shot down the legislation. It's like, well, okay, if it's true that you're telling us there's nothing to see here, just pass it.
Let's find out. But they shot it down.

So it's like, you don't listen to what people say. You watch what they do.
Right. Yeah.
So you say, oh, there's nothing to it. Well, pass the legislation.
So that's, that's, that's still in the works.

And so, yeah, but it's, but it's, it's, it's, it's coming out. It's coming out.
Hopefully. And it's a big, it's a big, it's a pretty big story.
Yeah. I'd like to see that one.

How do the retrieval programs work? Is that for all crashes or is it specifically for UAP crashes?

So I, you know, I'm I'm trying to figure it out myself, but apparently they've got these, how they get the funding is what's called WOSAPs, and it's

waived, unacknowledged, special access programs, and they're, I think they're under the umbrella of the Department of Energy. I'm not entirely sure, but I think they are.

And it's like sort of national security and exempt from oversight from Congress.

Now, I don't know if the gang of eight would have necessarily access or they wouldn't know about it, but they could certainly make inquiries into it.

But that's how I'm told by people in the program that have been in the program. That's how they hide it.
Wow. So the men in black could be real.
The men in black, in my opinion, are absolutely real.

Holy crap. Yeah, I know it's got a lot of baggage day, men in black.
I call them men in dark suits because I just kind of avoid that, you know, that, that, uh, that, that, that word. Yeah.

It's like, I think it's one of kind of why they changed the word UFO. I still use it.
UIP. Yeah, they call it UIP unidentified anomalous phenomena.

It was unidentified aerial phenomena, but they changed it to anonymous because they're coming in and out of the oceans, too. That's crazy.
So they're just ready to go and there's a crash.

Like they got guys on the ground everywhere. So

this individual will have to remain nameless, but I was talking to him because I'm, again, I'm trying to figure this out. Like I was investigating this alleged crash in Roswell.

I'm sorry, Roswell, when I say the Roswell of Brazil and Virginia.

And I only found out the Americans' involvement after 12 years. I mean, I kind of heard that maybe that was the case, but I got really good proof when I was over there the second of the last time.

And so, all right, I'm like, oh my God, the Americans flew in. Shit.

We had a photograph of the plane at the base. We'd heard that it came in to a place called, so we had like.
testimony about the sighting of the creature. We had the military

brigade around the area where a number of people had seen this live creature. Then we had the capture, which is a couple of blocks away, like an hour and a half later.

Then we had the transport to a specific location. It was a hospital called Regional Hospital.
Now we have testimony from there.

Then we have the military officer that took it from the hospital to a place called Ezza, which is a military base. And then from Ezza to this place called Campinas.

And then from Campinas, it went back to the United States. And so

we have testimony from all of that now.

but I didn't,

I don't have, I'm still trying to get, all right, so once that plane, once that USAF plane left a place called Campinas,

Brazil, and went back to the United States, the case kind of goes cold, right? So now we're looking for that end. So

if we can have some individuals coming forward, if anybody out there listening that was involved in that case, please get a hold of me.

So yeah.

But that's when I started to really go, oh, these guys are, the Americans have somehow some uncanny ability of communication around the world. And I found out from a gentleman that it was a

special access program and that Delta Force was involved. That's what I heard that just a couple of days ago.

I don't know that to be a fact, but that's what it was told to me by someone who seemed like they'd be in a position to know. Because there's been crashes everywhere.

Like I know you investigated Australia too, right? Yeah, that was a landing.

But men in black, men in dark suits showed up on that case as well. It's funny, actually, because it was Westall Primary School in 1966, and it was investigated by a number of

Australian researchers.

James Rigny and I think Ryan, something. But in any case,

very compelling case. In fact, when I first heard about that case, it took place at a school.
primary school in Westall. And there were 365

children and teachers watching this thing in broad daylight around 10 a.m. at recess.

And

when I arrived,

Shane Ryan, that's the researcher I wanted to throw a shout out to, when I arrived in Australia, I remember a number of researchers like, you know, some of the better witnesses, like the science teacher and a gentleman that shot a picture, took a picture of it.

that we've been trying for 50 years. And I remember saying, well, just get me in the room with these folks and let me see.
And so we ended up getting interviews with two major witnesses.

One of them was a science professor by the name of Mr. Mr.
Greenwood. And Mr.
Greenwood revealed to us for the first time ever on camera. I had to film him from behind.

Subsequently, he went on camera with his face. A few months later, then he died.
Wow.

But he said, yeah, he's like, I was the science teacher because I had all these students saying.

I was standing there holding his hand, scared, Mr. Greenwood, why hasn't he come forward to defend us? Like there was over 300 of us outside watching this thing.
And then it landed.

And we ran up to it. A number of the students ran up to it.
I interviewed a lot of them in my film, The Phenomenon. And

he said, like a day or two later, after the incident, I don't know if it was that night or the next day that he got a visit. And they were like, you're going to shut the fuck up.
Like, seriously.

Oh, my God. And it's really like he was scared 50 years later.
And they were like, we're going to do this to you. We're going to do that to you.
And they had

one guy in uniform and two guys in suits. And they weren't messing around, man.
But he revealed that in his twilight years and then he just died, I don't know, a year or two later. Weird timing, huh?

Well, I don't know. I don't think it was anything nefarious.
I think he just got old and died. It was one of the reasons why.

But yeah.

And then there was a gentleman who took a photograph of it in the area two days prior.

A lot of times when you have a mass sighting, there's objects in and around the area for could be weeks, could be days, could be months before it chose this place to land.

Same thing with Rua Zimbabwe in 1994. There were a lot of adults that saw the UFO in and around the area, and then it landed at a school in 1994.

So this gentleman took a photograph of what all the children described,

a disc, a UFO, in broad daylight. And I got him on camera for the first time in history, and he too died.

His name is James Gibble, but he took a fantastic photograph of a UFO just a few kilometers away. Interesting.

Has the frequency of the landings gone down now that everyone has cameras and it's so easy to take photos? Do you think

there's less of that happening these days? You know, I just met with a gentleman a couple of days ago. I went to a conference in Palm Springs called Contact in the Desert.

And it's like I met this gentleman.

I'm sorry, I have to think for his name in a second, but

he experienced a landing, allegedly, with multiple witnesses, and it happened in 2007.

And he said to me in passing when I was hanging out with him

that the intelligence folks that he has met with said that it was the last well-documented, like compelling landing case in the States.

Now, I don't know that to be true, but that's what he said to me. So I don't know.

I'm trying to think of, as you're saying this, I could tell you lots of very compelling sightings, but landings, it's the last alleged case that I know about.

Because 07, that's when the iPhone came out, I believe, around then.

Yeah, well.

Or the iPod, maybe. I don't remember, but the thing is, people always go, oh, where are the photographs? You know,

I get it. But the most compelling data is the sensory systems that the military has.

And there was a congressional hearing that happened in, I think it was December of last year. I attended it.
It was great.

And there was a gentleman named Michael Schellenberger. He was a reporter, and he met with an Intel guy.

and

had a congressional hearing about it and made a publication about it. And the program is called

Immaculate Constellation.

And it's basically an Intel person coming forward saying that there is, that's the program name of where all the extremely high resolution 4K sensory data lies. Stuff from the satellites?

Satellites, ships, drones, all that stuff, that it's like the most compelling body of high-resolution imagery of UAP that exists in the world because they're the ones with all the sensors.

Now, some of the stuff leaks because people go, you know, oh, yeah, I've seen the tic-tac and I've seen this. And yeah, that's that.

And they're like, oh, you know, the government suddenly had some sort of epiphany and decided to, you know, to be more transparent on the UFO phenomenon. I'm like, yeah, no, that's not what happened.

It was a couple of intelligence officers on the inside of the Pentagon that snuck some of that data out, found a loophole and risked their freedom and walked it onto the front page of the New York Times.

That's what happened. And that's why we're having the conversation today.
And they all say, this is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of the evidence that we have

that we're not releasing.

That's crazy. I wonder if that will ever get released one day.
Yeah, well, they're working on it right now.

There's tons of people that claim they've been abducted. I'm sure you've interviewed some of these people.
Do you believe any of those stories? So, a good question.

And this is the same, this sort of applies the same way as I feel about the UFO phenomenon in general. I've never reported,

excuse me, I've never reported on those

abduct, so-called abduction cases. Now, there's a handful of cases that I am extremely

intrigued.

One of them was Travis Walton. There's a movie you made about it called Fire in the Sky.

I've met with Travis. I've gone to the location.
I featured him in a number of

programs I did, one of which I think was

a silly National Geographic series that I did. I'm not very proud of it, but whatever.

But we did look into that case extensively. I became pretty good friends with him.
And it happened, I think, in 1975. Travis Walton, your audience can look it up.

Now, why I find this case particularly compelling is because there were seven witnesses. Wow.
And it was all lumberjacks up in the, up in, trying to think of the name of the White Mountain.

I'll think of it. Anyway, Snowflake, Arizona.
I think it was 1975. Your audience can look it up.
And

they were, they had a contract with the government clearing some sort of like, you know, potentially hazardous fire trees. And they do the,

they clean the brush. And, yeah.
And they had this contract and they were like working late that night. I don't know how late, I guess, till the sun kind of went down.
And then they all packed up.

And it was a very remote area. And they jumped in their truck.
And it was a four-door truck that seated, you know, I guess seven people. And they were in the truck.

And they looked at what seemed like a really bright light. They thought it was maybe a fire.
And so they drove towards it on these dirt roads in the mountains. And

they realize like, holy shit,

there's a disc hovering at treetop level, like right there out there, right there. They could hit it with a rock.
And they stop the truck.

And they're all just with their mouths dropped like, what the hell is this?

And Travis Walton decides to get a closer look and jumps out the truck. And he does it against the will of everybody else in the truck.

And he's running towards this thing, thinking it's about to take off. I'm going to miss it.
So I want to get as close as I can. And he's getting closer and closer and closer to it.

And he can hear a slight sound like a humming, buzzing, like it's winding up. Yeah.

You know, kind of like it's getting ready to do something.

And

he suddenly gets a little scared and he kind of crouches down behind a log and all the people in the truck are screaming at him to get back.

And he's crouching behind this log and then he's like, you know what?

I better get out of here. So he jumps up.
as this thing is spooling up or whatever it's doing and he gets hit by some sort of force field and he gets thrown like a raggedy and dole.

And they look down and they think they're next. So they just step on the gas pedal and they left his ass and get a couple miles down the road.
And the driver's like,

We got to go get Travis. We can't leave Travis.
We got to go get Travis. And the guys were like, Don't, I'm not, I'm not going back there.
Hell no. And he goes, Well, then you stay here.

Get out of the truck and stay here. Well, they were like, I don't want to do that either because I'm scared, rightfully so.
So they turn the truck around all together.

They go back, UFO gone, Travis gone.

so

so they go down into town well they look for him for a couple hours first gone he's just gone and so they go down into town they tell the authorities what happened and they're like you guys are all under arrest for homicide nobody believed him yeah obviously they're like we'll take lie detector tests you know so it makes world news i mean everybody's talking about because so many witnesses and they're just sticking to their story You know, and so they start this most intensive manhunt.

They got dogs, helicopters.

All the news is talking about it. And then five days later, Travis shows up at a phone booth on the outskirts of town.
No way. Yeah.
And he's just so traumatized, he can barely talk. Wow.

And to this day, he's like, I went aboard the ship and I met the people and I did it, you know, and they made a movie about it called Fire in the Skies. A guy named Tracy Torme wrote the screenplay.

And a very compelling case. It was Betty and Barney Hill, New Hampshire, 1961, very compelling case.

And I've also met with some of the lead researchers, Bud Hopkins, John Mack from Harvard University, that have investigated so-called alleged abduction cases.

And one of the most compelling pieces of data that I've seen, and again, I don't report on these. I'm just, I mean, not really.

This is not my area of expertise, right? And I'm just now delving into the crash retrieval stuff after all these years.

He, this guy, Bud Hopkins, he passed, I think, 10 years ago. And he was showing, he was all excited.
And he was interviewing alleged witnesses, alleged abductees, right?

People that have have had these experiences. They call them experiencers.
And he asked them under hypnosis, draw what you see on the craft. So they're all drawing this symbol.

And I was looking at, he's like, this guy's from Africa. This guy's from China.

This guy's from, and they're all drawing relatively the same symbol, slightly different variation, but the same damn symbol on the craft. And that to me was very compelling.

Yeah, because they don't even know each other.

None of them know each other. And he was very excited about this.
Yeah. Wow.
If they could fly this fast, it's possible they could time time travel, right?

So there's a guy named Jacques Valet. He's the leading intellectual heavyweight probably within the scientific community

on this phenomenon. And his theory is that they're not interplanetary.
And nobody really knows. I really don't think anyone has the answers.

I think there are some within the government, maybe 100 people worldwide, that maybe have a bigger picture, I'm told. Yeah.
Because it's very compartmentalized.

Like even if you have people that are working on the hardware, they might not have any idea about the bodies or any potential communication. Who Who knows?

So it's all sort of compartmentalized, but I'm told there's about roughly 100 people.

But Jacques Volley has been looking into this seriously forever. I mean, he makes me look like a newbie.
And he's in his 80s now. Wow.

And he's a physicist, very intelligent, and he's worked with some of the greatest, and a lot of his research has been done sort of discreetly.

A panel of scientists called NIDS that was run by Bigelow, which is right here in Las Vegas.

It was the intellectual heavyweights within the scientific community on this for a long time.

And they got the contract for what turned out to be OSAP and then ATIP that was on the front page of the New York Times.

And he thinks that, and a lot of other scientists too, that it's more, way more complex than just interplanetary visitation, that it could be, you know, there's some people say sort of an interdimensional aspect to it.

Right.

You know, that it's not just a simple label of, hey, we're getting visitation from, you know, another star constellation or another planet or, you know what I mean? Yeah.

And it could be all of the above, too. But honestly, anybody who tells you they know what's going on doesn't know what's going on, in my humble opinion, myself included.
Yeah.

Well, the interesting part is when you look at ancient texts, a lot of them mention aliens or UFOs or these hovercrafts or whatever. Jacques Vollet wrote a book called

Is it Mysteries in the Sky? I'll think of it.

Wonders in the Sky. And it's exactly that.

It's a documentation with photographs of things dating back millennia, right?

K paintings, paintings, super old paintings that you just can't, it can't be anything else other than, you know, a sighting 500 years ago of

a disc or, you know, entities. I remember I was investigating a case in Africa.
It was a very compelling case. I featured it in the program.

of a landing at a school in Rua Zimbabwe, Ariel School. And the lead

head professor or headmaster of the school, her name is Judy Bates.

She was there at the school when it happened in 1994.

And allegedly, what happened was a bunch of discs landed at the school at morning break. And there were a hundred, people say 66.
No, there was a hundred kids in the playground when it happened.

All of them got, some of them were closer, some were further away, but they all,

a lot of them had face-to-face contact with these little entities that had the big eyes, the spindly arms, legs. And I know it sounds crazy, and the kids were all drawing this.

There was a Harvard psychiatrist by the name of Dr. John Mack, flew there just a few weeks, documented it all on camera.

The children all saying primarily the same thing. And they drew what they saw, these little aliens.
And this, and when I was there,

headmistress gave me photocopies of all these different drawings. The kids were drawing these little aliens that they saw.

I'm like, oh, I'm going to call them aliens because I don't know what else to call them. But they were the quintessential, you know, the large heads and the army eyes and all that stuff.

Three and a half. It's really funny.
They were interviewing one kid. He was like 10, 10 or 11.
And they go, well, how big were they? He goes, about my size.

They were small. Yeah, about three and a half, four feet tall.
And anyway, so I got these, I got these drawings

and they're amazing. You look at them.
You can look them up online, you know.

And I took them with me and I went and investigated a landing at another school that happened in 1966 at West Hall Primary that we were talking about earlier.

And I took these drawings there and I met with some

researchers and I was showing them like, look at this, this is the landing that happened in, but this is a little different. It was a close encounter of the third kind when witnesses report entities.

And they were like, whoa,

have you seen the Wangina cave art that's thousands of years old? They were like, holy shit, this looks like exactly like the cave art from the Wanjina.

You know, the indigenous tribes talked about the Wanjina descending.

And anyway, and I looked at that and I just couldn't believe the resemblance that there was occupancy on cave walls thousands of years ago. I don't know how many thousands of years ago.

So yes, to answer your question, this is nothing new, evidently, and it's been going on since the

recording time. What do you think the aliens are trying to accomplish when they do these landings in these areas? Like, do you think it's the same goal or do you think they have different missions?

It's a good question. And I've speculated on that.
That's all I can tell you is I've speculated on that because I don't think anyone really knows.

But I have interviewed a number of military personnel from around the world that have intercepted or tried to intercept UFOs. And some of them have tried to shoot at them.

Some of them have successfully shot at them. I report on it in a film I did called I Know What I Saw.
You can watch that for free online. And

we take a very hostile position. towards anything that could be seen as a threat.
Right.

And I'll remind your audience, like anything that's in particularly controlled airspace, you don't identify yourself and you fly, you scramble jets to intercept it and it's flying rings around our jets, right?

That's a national security issue, right?

So generally,

we shoot first and ask questions later. So we have a very hostile approach.
In fact, I interviewed this one pilot.

His name is Parvice Jafari from 1976, Tehran Iran. He had a really compelling, I mean, it's a really good case.
I featured that one in a film I did. It was a two-hour special for a history channel.

I know what I saw. And he, he said to me on camera, which was great, I actually reflected back on it years later and thought, wow, that was a really profound statement that I kind of missed.

And he said,

you know, one of my biggest regrets was that instead of trying to make peaceful contact with this thing that I was encountering in the sky in an F-4 Phantom jet, I tried to shoot it down.

And that turned out to be not such a good idea for him because his plane locked up and he almost died.

And so he was, he was reflecting back on that moment in the 70s as a fighter pilot. And he was like, and he was now a general, a retired, retired general, Iranian general.

And he said, why did I try to shoot it? It wasn't harming me. It wasn't threatening me in any way, but we took a very hostile approach at it.

And I've also talked to other people from Peru, I think, that shot at one. He said it absorbed its bullets.
Big bullets. Yeah.

And,

you know, if

let's just say, again, let's suspend judgment. And if

this whole phenomenon is happening, as all these witnesses around the world are saying it's happening, and the military has taken a very

hostile position towards these things,

I don't know about you, but I'd probably land at a school with kids. And to make, if I, if my intention was to make contacts, that's probably where I would do it.

I mean,

I, you know, you look into landing cases at schools and they're prolific. Yeah, because they're not going to want to shoot when there's kids around.

No, when kids are very, you know, kids aren't aggressive and hostile and armed, you know, quite the contrary, right?

So I'm just saying that if I was the phenomenon and I did want to establish some sort of contact, that's what I would do.

Very interesting because they're not making the first attacks and a lot of people hate aliens negatively. Oh, like they're the enemies.

Look, you talk to any military guy, any pilot at all, you know, and they'll say, look, man, if that thing wanted to shoot me out of the sky, it would have been game over. Yeah.

That thing displayed a technology that just blew my mind. I mean, listen to David Fraver, the Tic Tac incident, 2004

off the coast of San Diego. I mean, that thing was flying rings.
I mean,

four. Two military jets with four people, four eyeballs and radar, and they ended up getting it on FLIR.
I mean, that's the most, that's a really compelling case.

Was that the one the government released?

Or no? That was the one that they snuck the tapes out of the Pentagon. Yeah.
I wouldn't say government released. They weren't happy about that shit.
Yeah.

And Christopher Mellon, intelligence officer, he told me, he goes,

I risked my ass to do that. He goes, granted, we found a loophole, but we bent the rules.
And we walked that shit out of the Pentagon and onto the front page of the New York Times. Wow.

It's almost like, it sounds like they want to help us, honestly, but we're trying to shoot them. well so this is interesting that's a very good point so uh i was sorry i was like probably

seven years six years into making the phenomenon insane right yeah that's a long time i know i know and

suddenly you know there's this new york times story i'm like well at the time i was at that particular time i was probably five years in maybe something like that and it was 2017 and like oh holy shit the former senate majority leader harry reed had a secret pentagon ufo program it's now being talked about on in the new york

holy shit so i had i i seized i i was going to release the film and all of a sudden i had this whole new development and i thanks to george knap who's a famous reporter here yeah he got me an interview with senator reed

So I said to Senator Reid, it was funny actually, because he had like security. And I mean, it was very like, okay, we're going to meet at this time.
I'm going to have 46 minutes.

I made sure everything was ready. All you had to do was sit down, you know, boom, boom, boom, roll.
And then I was like, shit, I forgot to get B-roll.

And I got amazing stuff on camera, but I was like, I forgot to get B-roll. And he's like, he's like, okay, I got like 90 seconds, you know.

So I'm walking with Reid and I thought, well, I might as well ask him a question while, you know, and it was a question that I. duh should have asked him on camera and i somehow just escaped me i said

what was one of the more astonishing aspects of the phenomenon that you learned about in this program that you did for 10 years? I mean, the program was secret for 10 years. Yeah.
Right.

And without a moment's hesitation, he said, they're disabling our nuclear weapons. Wow.

And I went, holy shit, this is coming from Senator Reed.

And so I'd kind of like heard about specific cases in the past where I never quite put the dots together because I'm an idiot. But I was like,

I pause in production. I need to go look into this.
I ended up contacting a guy who was the lead researcher and I'd known him. He wrote books, UFOs and Nukes.
And I contacted him.

And he, I told him, I was like, hey, man, I just got confirmation from Senator Harry Reid on camera that they're, and I, again, I'd heard about some cases in the past, but this was a level of confirmation that the world has never seen.

So I do an entire section with this gentleman's help.

Sorry, his name escapes me right now. I probably didn't get enough sleep last night.
But so I,

UFOs and Nukes is his book, and he makes available to me a lot of the information of his lifelong study into that.

And I did a five or 10 minute, probably a 10-minute segment specifically on UFOs and nukes with launch control officers firsthand.

testimony right wow in the film and like archival stuff and modern stuff and it was it's incredible,

incredible that these guys,

let me remind you, like the top level security clearances you need to be the launch control officer to nuclear weapons. Like this is like the most serious shit out there.
And one of them said to me,

I'll never forget this.

And he's really calm and measured. And you realize like why he was chosen for the job he had.

Because that's the guy you want, right? Not going to freak out. Holy shit, UFOs,

you know, you want a guy that's like, he goes,

well, it's a pretty clear message to me, James. And I said,

okay, what's that message? He goes,

it's kind of like taking matches out of the hands of a baby. And I thought, wow, that's incredible.
Wow. So these aliens don't want nuclear war.

Make of it what you wish, but, you know,

it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. Yeah, that is really interesting.

Makes me wonder if it affects their dimension or something when a nuclear bomb goes off. Yeah, it does.
It does make you wonder, doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah, it does make you wonder.

Because maybe during the World War when that one went off, that's when they started coming, right? Around then. You know, there's a guy named Jesse Michaels.

He's got a podcast called American Alchemy. He was just on Joe Rogan a couple of days ago.
He's a friend of mine, great guy, very smart guy. He's probably 30.

And he just met, and excuse excuse me if I get the, if I get the name wrong, but his name is,

and he passed right after the interview, something

Malgram, Mal, Malmram.

Anyway, the episode is on American alchemy, but he's basically said

just recently that there was a detonation, I think it was 1963, 62, 63, detonation of an atomic bomb in subspace or space, and that as a result of that detonation, it caused a tic-tac-shaped UFO to crash that was recovered in the ocean.

Whoa. Yeah,

Malgram, I'm so sorry to your audience that I can't remember the exact name of this gentleman, but look it up. It's American Alchemy, Jesse Michaels.

You can watch the interview yourself and listen to this guy's testimony. And I had heard about it through other, like a former Senate Majority,

Senate Armed Service Committee gentleman.

I'll just give his first name, Kirk, and he told me about it, but then he got the interview. Malgram, I think his name was.
But anyway, yeah.

And that, yeah, so if that's true, absolutely it's affecting the phenomenon. And absolutely, they'd want to, you know, neutralize this stuff.
I mean, there's talks of, there was a launch,

I think it was, I think it was Bob Jacobs,

and it was 1964, Vandenberg Air Force Base, the launch of an Atlas rocket.

And according to the gentleman who filmed it in an official capacity for the military, he said that there was a Atlas rocket traveling at several thousand miles an hour and an object came into view, and it's all on film, according to him.

He filmed it two different camera angles, and the object flew around the dummy warhead and was shooting out of the sky, which it did, which it did.

And that footage, everyone's been talking about. Lou Elizondo, who ran the ATIP program, one of the people that ran the ATIP program.

Jay Stratton was the real top dog

at ATIP, Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program. It was AUSAP before that.
And I don't remember that acronym stands for something similar. And

Lou came forward and said that he'd seen it. And the gentleman that

shot it is to this day adamantly like, that's what I saw. We had it.
And men in black came in. Men in suits came in and confiscated it.
That's the gods. Yeah.
And there are so many stories about men.

You and I could go on until tomorrow morning and your audience would, you know,

be bored stiff, but I could go on till tomorrow morning about the stories that I've heard about men in black.

I finally reported on them. I went all in on moment of contact.
Yeah. You ever get whistleblowers that just stop talking to you or do you ever face oppression, I guess?

Well, so what I've learned over the years is that when somebody reaches out to you, when you reach out to somebody and they finally respond and they're interested in possibly coming forward, get them immediately.

Don't even wait till the next day. There's an uncanny thing that takes place where, you know, I don't know if they get a phone call or they get cold feet or they get a visit.

You're going to shut the fuck up. Yeah.
You know, that happens. I know that happens because I've had it happen to me.
I would show up to meet somebody.

I'd drive 500 miles and show up and it's like, somebody's gotten cold feet. It's like, he got a phone call as a reminder of their national security thing, you know.

Yeah. So that's absolutely real.
And I've had people get cold feet, come forward legitimately like, I really want to do this. And all of a sudden, you know, so

I know it sounds crazy, man, but there's

there's just no doubt in my mind that there's an unknown government agency within within the U.S. government that has the ability to monitor this activity globally.
And they show up.

And I could, if you want, I can give you a couple examples of high-level. Yeah.
Like

they show up.

They try to get the evidence. They try to,

in cases, intimidate the witnesses.

The better the case, the more likely it is they're going to show up and they show up pretty damn quickly.

I'll give you a couple examples.

I interviewed a general,

a Belgian Air Force general, Wilfred de Brouwer, and there was a very famous sighting

over a year and maybe longer that took place over Belgium. And there were a very large object.
It was the size of a football field or larger.

I think it was,

I'm trying to remember the exact shape. You can look it up.
Belgium UFO wave, but large, size of a football field. And they were shooting beams of light down to the ground.

They were hovering without making any sound whatsoever. And he said that the Air Force, the Belgian Air Force scrambled jets to intercept it.
They had radar tapes of

the radar of these events and that two men from an unknown government, U.S. agency showed up on camera.

He told me all this on camera, showed up at his office and they were like, we want recordings of those tapes. And he's like, kind of like thinking to himself, well,

what agency are you guys from?

And he said, okay, well, I'll give you copies, but I need an official inquiry. And they wouldn't do that.
So I'll give you another case,

the Tehran Iran incident in the 70s with Pauvre's Jafari. He goes, yeah, the very next morning, and the incident took place in the middle of the night.

The very next morning, there were representatives from the U.S. government there.
Wow. It's like, oh, my gosh.
I'll give you another case.

December 1980, Bentwaters, you know, there was a landing at Bentwaters. It was a joint British military, U.S.
military base that had nuclear weapons. Kind of a secret that it did, but they did.

It's out.

It was 1980. And

it took place over several nights, December 1980.

I interviewed the deputy base commander, Colonel Charles Halt, and he said that some, a plane flew in with some men from an unknown government, U.S. agency, sanitized the evidence,

talked to the witnesses, and I would say more interrogated the witnesses, exposed them to sodium pentothal. And

just there were photographs taken of it by a guy named Jim Penniston and John Burroughs. And those photographs evidently never, you know, saw the light of day or didn't turn out, whatever, you know.

So that happened. Phoenix Lights case, Men in Black.

It was a gentleman that took a photograph of it. I interviewed former councilwoman Frances Barwood about that.

March 13th, 1997, I investigated that case on and off for 10 years.

I got the governor to come forward, Fife Symington, for the first time in history on that case, that he too was a witness and that it was not a craft of earth origin because of its size.

He said it was about two miles across wingtip to ringtip and the governor of Arizona while he was governor saw it with his own eyes. God.

And they scrambled jets and picked it up on radar at Luke Air Force Base, like very compelling case. Men in black in that case as well.
Two miles long. That's like the mothership in Star Wars.
Yeah.

So you had, and you had a bunch of people under the night sky try to get a glimpse of the hailbob comet at the time. So it was witnessed all across the state of Arizona.

I mean, it was witnessed by thousands of people.

I interviewed a couple, Stacey Rhodes and her daughter Emily, that said, I think they pulled their car over on Interstate 10 between Tucson and Phoenix. And they were like, if I held up a newspaper

above my head, I couldn't have blocked this craft out. Wow.
It was huge, gunmetal, black, massive, made no sound. And it also had the ability, it would hover really slowly, according to the witnesses.

i interviewed lots of witnesses all across the state of arizona for over 10 years

and uh i did it it's in out of the blue it's in i know what i saw anyway um when this thing took off

like it would it would change shape just a little bit and then it would take off like warp speed in star trek oh my gosh yeah that's crazy according to the witnesses yeah so that's what's the next investigation for you i know you just released something yesterday right well yeah so i did a film called the program and the program basically basically encapsulates everything that's been happening in front of the scenes and behind the scenes since the New York Times revealed the existence of a secret Pentagon UFO program.

And there's been three congressional hearings since then, but there were a lot of meetings behind the scenes that were taking place with military witnesses, primarily military witnesses, fighter pilots, things of that nature, intelligence officers.

And then we had the first congressional hearings that took place. It was run by a guy named Representative Andre Carson.
That was 2022. Then Tim Burchett of Tennessee, along with Luna and others,

had a congressional hearing in 2023, open congressional hearing. The first one was an open congressional hearing.
I'll remind your audience,

there haven't been a congressional hearing since 1966 on UFOs. Wow.
So this is a big fucking deal. And then they had the 2023 with David Grush and David Fraver

and Mr. Graves, fighter pilot, two fighter pilots and an intelligence officer.

The intelligence officer testified, everybody testified under oath, not just to the existence of the program, not to just the existence of the UAP phenomenon, but that we have bodies and we have craft in our possession.

And that was a bipartisan group of lawmakers that these guys testified to. Then we had another congressional hearing in 2024, which I attended.
It was incredible. First time in my entire career.

I waited 30 years for that.

And where you had

somebody was involved with the program, Lou Elizondo, who testified, again, under oath that we have a crash retrieval program, bodies and graft. And then you had the reporter who uncovered

Immaculate Constellation. And that's the program that has all the high-resolution data, sensory data,

satellite imagery of the phenomenon. We'll link that film below.
Yeah, so because people are always complaining, like, oh, why if they're real, why wouldn't there be more compelling data?

I'm like, I'm screaming from the hilltops. All the Intel folks are saying it's hidden behind this wall.
It's on these, you know, these, and I talk about it in the program.

So it's all behind the scenes.

I feature the congressional hearings, interviews with people behind the scenes, interview with people that were involved, that were involved with the legacy program, the crash retrieval stuff.

It's, yeah. So ask your audience, go check out.
the program, check out the phenomenon, the program, moment of contact. You can watch them all for free online.

The program dropped yesterday on Amazon Prime.

It was T-VOD prior to that, which is transactional download where you pay for it, but now it's free on Amazon Prime. Nice.
We'll link it all below.

Anything else you want to close off with here, James? Thanks for coming on.

Yeah, I would say one final thing is that don't believe me. Don't believe anything I just said.

But imagine for a second, if it's true.

How big of a story would you consider that?

Yeah, it would be the biggest story ever. So, suspend judgment, check it out, and draw your own conclusions.
I love it. Check out his films, guys.
I'm going to be watching them tonight.

Thanks for coming on. Cool, appreciate you having me.